The 20-Minute Fix: Achieve More in Less Time with Fran Hauser

What would change if we paid as much attention to how we spend our time as how we spend our money? Fran Hauser joins me to explore that question. A former media executive, owner of Bedford Books and author of Twenty Minutes Is the New Hour https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/795669/twenty-minutes-is-the-new-hour-by-fran-hauser/, https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/795669/twenty-minutes-is-the-new-hour-by-fran-hauser/ Fran challenges us to ask how much time something deserves before deciding how much time to give it. In midlife, that question gets especially personal. We’ve spent years becoming capable, dependable and very good at getting things done. The reward? More things to do. Fran’s approach offers a way to reconsider those commitments and make room for the work, relationships and experiences we actually want. Our conversation explores: The four habits that quietly consume our time: padding, perfectionism, people-pleasing and procrastination. Why some tasks deserve your A game, while others can survive a perfectly respectable B or C. What opening a bookstore in eight weeks can teach us about deadlines, clarity and starting something new. The cost of always being the reliable one, including the resentment that follows an unwanted yes. How to decide when to spend less time, pay for help or stop doing something altogether. Where AI can help, and how to avoid filling every saved minute with more work Learn more about Fran and her book at franhauser.com https://www.franhauser.com/. How's midlife going? Fill out Farnoosh's survey https://www.jotform.com/build/262556781257063 and help shape the podcast in 2027. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

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• 1:46Speaker 03

  I looked at so many of the time management books that are out there. They're great books. But I do think that their focus is more on efficiency and squeezing even more into our already packed lives. And I really wanted this book to be a mindset shift. I wanted it to be about intentionally doing less so that we could create more space and time for the things that matter the most to us. So that was really important to me, Farnoosh, when I was approaching this book. It's the book I really wish I had when I was very early on in my career, when things like perfectionism and people pleasing showed up a lot for me.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  Welcome back to So Money, everybody. I'm Farnoosh. Today, we're talking about what we would do with more time in our day. And before you say laundry, I want you to think a little bigger. In midlife, there are so many competing demands on our time, work, family, someone's appointment, and email that somehow becomes your entire morning. And somewhere in there, we're supposed to have a life we actually enjoy? My friend Fran Hauser wants us to reconsider how much time we give all of it. Her new book is called 20 Minutes is the New Hour. And one idea that really stayed with me is this. Instead of asking how long something takes, let's ask how much time it deserves. Fran is a former media executive and author and the owner of Bedford Books.

• 3:09Speaker 04

  Today, we're talking about the habits that quietly eat our time, the financial cost of always saying yes, and how to make room for something we want before another year goes by. Fran Hauser, welcome back to So Money.

• 3:22Speaker 03

  Hi, Farnoosh. It's so good to see you.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  It's really good to see you. And I'm so relieved with this book that you have written because I have wanted to have the permission to, you know, be more, I guess, just more intentional with my time. And I've always thought that I've overspent time on projects and decisions that just don't need the hour. And your book says 20 minutes is the new hour. And before we get into the thesis, I want to start with your own kind of lived experience around this. A big story about opening up a bookstore, Bedford Books, in eight weeks, which normally takes nine months.

• 4:11Speaker 04

  So you were doing this before it became a book?

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love sharing this story because I think it's such a great example of 20 minutes is the new hour as a metaphor. So it was October 2024, two years ago, that I decided I was going to open this bookstore because the perfect space became available. And I really wanted to be open in time for the holidays. Because, you know, holidays, it's a huge, for retail, it's a huge chunk of sales for the year. And so that gave me eight weeks to open. And based on the research I did, it looked like, on average, it took six to nine months to open a bookstore. And having eight weeks forced clarity.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  It really forced me to think about, like, what do I need to really open the store? Like, what are the things that are critical? I need a welcoming space. I need books on the shelves. I need a point-of-sale system that works and staff. And really, everything else could wait. I didn't need to launch with e-commerce or an event strategy. And so it really kind of forced me to think about, okay, what are the things that are important? Let go of the rest. And if I had given myself six months, I would have taken the six months. You know, I always use the example of, I know I would have asked for more iterations of the logo if I had six months. Versus, I knew I only had eight weeks.

• 5:41Speaker 03

  The logo was great. We don't need to spend more time there. But if I had the time, I would have spent the time.

• 5:48Speaker 04

  More time to second guess yourself, really. Talk about the benefit to sort of the speed at which you were moving. It didn't leave a lot of room for doubt or living in failure, like getting stuck in failure?

• 6:02Speaker 03

  No, there was no. I'm glad you brought that up because when we give ourselves a shorter amount of time, you know, when we shrink that container, there's no room for perfectionism, for people pleasing, for like all of the patterns that I talk about in the book that can be really harmful to our relationship with time. There's just no room for it. And I think that was so helpful when I was opening the bookstore. And it can also be applied to anything, right? 20 minutes is the new hour. Think about meetings. Most meetings default to an hour.

• 6:39Speaker 04

  Right.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Right? Google Calendar, that's the default. Zoom, that's the default. And when we give ourselves an hour, we take it. But if we give ourselves instead 20 minutes, that's a really focused 20 minutes where you can be really effective.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. So you brought up the four habits that eat our time. You mentioned perfectionism and people pleasing, also padding and procrastination. I want to get into these each one by one. But first, just tell me a little bit about why 20 minutes? Why not 30 minutes is the new hour? Is there a science to the 20 minutes?

• 7:16Speaker 03

  It's interesting. I did some research because I wanted to understand, like, what that perfect amount of time is. And to be honest, I really didn't find much other than the Pomodoro method, which uses, I believe the Pomodoro method uses...

• 7:32Speaker 04

  Like 20, 20?

• 7:33Speaker 03

  20, 25, something in there. So I really kind of relied more on my own lived experience. I feel like 15 minutes is too short. I've tried the 15-minute office hours.

• 7:47Speaker 04

  Six-minute abs, yeah.

• 7:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  The shorter the better in that case, yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  But, you know, but it felt to me like when I gave myself 20 minutes, like if I was procrastinating and I needed to just like take one step to like start and gain momentum, like giving myself 20 minutes, like just really, it works. And I think the other thing that I would say, though, Farnoosh, is that it doesn't have to be exactly 20 minutes. The whole idea is just, the idea of the 20-minute mindset is to question how much time something deserves, to not default to the hour or to the six months, you know? But instead, like 30 minutes. 30 minutes is a lot, a lot less than an hour, you know? Like 30 minutes might be fine. So it's really just more a mindset. And it's really about questioning,

• 8:39Speaker 03

  just questioning how much time something deserves and am I giving it too much time?

• 8:43Speaker 04

  Something that I've started to do more and more of is just to time how long tasks actually take. And I'm talking more about like household tasks, the things that I never, like, I'm not excited to make my bed or tidy up a room or throw in laundry. But I know ultimately, it is what gives me a sense of calm in my life. Like, these are actually small, important steps for me. And there are signs behind this stuff, too. And making my bed takes 90 seconds, right? And I think just the numbers don't lie. The time doesn't lie. And it's a good reminder for me, if I have 10 minutes between now and another meeting, to go, yeah, I have plenty of time right now to go upstairs and like make my bed,

• 9:28Speaker 04

  which later in the day will be such an escape and nice welcome for me when I want to go in there and like just get away from my family.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  No, you're right. It's like it's all about how it makes you feel. And what a great use of that 90 seconds, right?

• 9:42Speaker 04

  Right. And done is better than perfect. Like, I'm not, you know, I don't need to vacuum the room and get every dust particle out of there. It's just done is better than perfect. Let's talk about these four habits that you identify in the book that eat up our time, padding, perfectionism, people pleasing, and procrastination. So at the outset, how can someone figure out which one of these Ps is causing the most friction in her life?

• 10:12Speaker 03

  You know, a good way to do it is actually to look at your calendar for the coming weeks. And so like if you see that all of your appointments, your meetings, your phone calls are on the longer side, you know, like if you're seeing a lot of one-hour-long meetings on your calendar, you might be padding. And that would be like a good, a good kind of exercise to like look at those meetings and say, well, do they really need to be that long? Can they be shorter? Actually, do I even need to be in these meetings to begin with? That's like the other, other big question. If you're seeing a lot of events on your calendar that you said yes to, and now you're like, wait... Why did I say yes to this?

• 10:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  Probably because you were in people pleasing mode and you felt bad saying no. So people pleasing might be a play that happens to me. It it still happens to me, right? Even though I wrote this book, but sometimes I look at my calendar and I'm like, wow, I have like three evening events next week, you know? Like, how did?

• 11:14Speaker 04

  Too much, too many.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  Right? How did that happen? So you might be in people pleasing mode. Procrastination, if you see on your calendar, tasks, projects, meetings that have been carried over from the week before and maybe even the week before that, right? These are things that you're procrastinating on. And then perfectionism usually shows up when you're spending a lot of time refining and polishing and tweaking because, you know, you just want to get it like just perfect, right? So if you look at where you're actually spending your time, like if you look at your calendar, it's actually not that hard to figure out like which P is the biggest culprit for you right now.

• 11:59Speaker 04

  And then what's the next step? So I think looking at my calendar, some weeks it's different, right? Some weeks it's the padding, some weeks, I mean, I have donation bins in my car. They'll probably be there for about eight more weeks.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  Right?

• 12:15Speaker 04

  And and so, so how do I? What's the next step? How do I rectify?

• 12:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, so like a good example, like the the donation bins that are that are in your car, you know, could you block out time on your calendar next week to just handle it? And if you look at your calendar and you're like, but there's no space, there's just no space on the calendar, then it's okay. What, what can you shorten? What can you remove? Like, I really have no problem changing my mind on things, like the three evening events. Like, you know, I, I can go back to a friend and say, you know what? I just, I really overcommitted for next week.

• 12:57Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  And I'm like, looking at my calendar right now and I'm feeling really overwhelmed. And, you know, I hope it's okay. Maybe, maybe I just come by and like, give a hug for a few minutes, just to show support, you know?

• 13:12Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Um, like, I know, like, most people will understand because they've been there themselves. So the one thing, Farnoosh, that I do consistently every single Friday is I look at my calendar for the coming week. And I'm always like, I'm looking at it for spaciousness. How much space do I have on my calendar? If it's like a lot of back to back, I know that I need to make changes because I know that that it's not going to feel good for me and I'm going to feel overwhelmed. And so I am making changes like the Friday before. I'm shortening, I'm cutting things, I'm, you know, I'm questioning, I'm questioning like, you know, hey, why do we have this meeting again? Like, what's the purpose of it? Is there a different way for me to contribute?

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Maybe I can weigh in, you know, ahead of time. Maybe there's knowledge I can share that would be helpful, especially if I'm not part of the decision making process. So this Friday, like, exercise is, I've been doing it probably for 15 years. And I would say it's, it's, it's probably the most effective thing when I'm really looking at, is my calendar aligned with where I want to be spending my time?

• 14:24Speaker 04

  And also the truth of where your life is at. So in midlife, I gotta leave a lot of room in my calendar for error. Or just a phone call from school that's like, your daughter has a stomach ache, you need to come pick her up. Or a client, you know, gives feedback on something. Like yesterday, I had submitted talking points for a television segment a week ago. They said it was great. They reached out to me, they wanted to book me on the show, didn't hear anything for a week. And then yesterday, they're like, we changed up everything, we need a whole new set of talking points. And this is like happening on a day where I have back to back to back to back. And honestly, I was like, this is, this may be a fire for them, but I can't blow this out right now.

• 15:07Speaker 04

  Like, there is a point, and this comes with age and kind of like, you have to earn this, I think, but you do to step back and be like, they didn't give me enough time to really respond in a thoughtful way. So they care, they're gonna have to be at the end of my to do list. And it's not like I'm gonna respond in three days, but it's not gonna be right now. Because right now, I have to work on these other things that need my attention that booked me sooner. And frankly, are paying me. And this is not a paid gig. So I find that I I'm always making these like, on the go calculations in my head because sometimes you have these days where four things are happening or want your attention at the same time. And so for me, the prioritization is, what's the deadline, right?

• 15:51Speaker 04

  Was actually the deadline that I have to meet. Something is not urgent, it can wait till tomorrow, even though it kind of pains me because I like to get things done ahead of schedule, it's gonna have to wait. And also, is there something that on this list that's actually gonna have an ROI? That's gonna help my family, like money? So that's obviously gonna, right? I feel like maybe it's my people pleasing tendency that kind of wants to make everybody happy by 5:00 PM. It's not gonna happen.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  It's not gonna happen. And I, I love that. I mean, that's setting boundaries, you know? Because what is that? What is that saying? I always forget how it goes. It's something like, um, the one that's like a fire drill on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part, or like something like that.

• 16:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, your fire drill is not my emergency or something like that.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  It's something like that, but it's, but you know, it's, it's true. Like, you did the right thing. You prepared the talking points, you sent, you sent them in. And now it's like a week later. So I think it, I think it's really important. I think the other thing that's also come for me with experience and with age is that I think about like 20 years ago, if I was asked to do something, I would really want it to be perfect before I submitted it. And now, like, I, I think about, you know, recently I had a, an organization reach out about doing a keynote for them, but they wanted it customized. It wasn't just my standard keynote. Um, and they asked me to send a proposal over. And I spent really maybe 20, 25 minutes putting it together.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  And what I decided to do was just do a Google Doc, like not put together like a pretty, you know, like PowerPoint deck, but just like my thoughts, like, you know, here's what I heard from them in terms of how they want their employees to feel. Here's like a few different formats, a few different bullet points on topics. And then I sent it back like the same day, just saying, this is a rough draft and I love feedback from you. Like getting early feedback and having that person, whether it's your client or another stakeholder, actually contribute to the output is actually a really good thing, you know? And then we worked, we kind of workshopped it together and we got it to a place that was really good for both of us.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  But if it had been 20 years ago, I probably would have spent two weeks putting a PowerPoint deck together.

• 18:10Speaker 03

  And it's like, it's not necessary. That's when the perfectionism is at play.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, as you're speaking, I think to do this well, this to like embrace this 20 minute approach to, or you know, 20 ish minutes approach, you really need to be introspective, analytical, life experience plays a lot into this. Like, this is really, this book is not your first book. I feel like it's really a culmination of so much of what you have taught and what you've experienced in life. It's not just another like time management book, but it's really a book about how to reframe your approach to living your best life.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  It really is. And I, I looked at so many of the time management books that are out there, they're, they're great books. But I do think that their focus is more on efficiency and squeezing even more into our already packed lives. And I really wanted this book to be a mindset shift. I wanted it to be about intentionally doing less so that we could create more space and time for the things that matter the most to us. So that was really important to me, Farnoosh, when I was approaching this book. It's the book I really wish I had when I was very early on in my career, when things like perfectionism and people pleasing showed up a lot for me, you know? So I'm really, I, I love the way that it's landing for people.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Like, I really feel it's helping people because time is a universal pain point. It's what I hear from like, you know, I do all the speaking around the country and all of my talks are about, you know, creating a career that you love and accelerating in your career and like, how do you do that? You build a network, you, you know, create a strong personal brand. Like, I'm talking about all of these things, but the response that I always get from women is I want to do those things, but I don't have the time. I physically don't have the time to do those things. I don't have the time to invest in my career. And so that's really, that was the kind of the impetus for this book, you know? And, and really kind of taking a step back and saying, okay, my first two books were

• 20:16Speaker 03

  really so career focused. But, you know, how do you build a career that you love if you don't have the time? So like, I really had to kind of take a step back and say, okay, how do we create more time and space to do that?

• 20:32Speaker 04

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• 24:28Speaker 04

  The cost to not rethinking, reformatting, reapproaching your time, you talk about this in the book, and I've heard you talk about it on your interviews, is this idea of resentment. And I was interviewing someone the other night who has a book about burnout. And she said the number one clue that you are burned out is when you have this cycle of resentment. And so, talk a little bit about that. Like, you know, you wrote this book, obviously, for that person who, to use your words, feels like she can't have the time to do the things that are important to her, whether it's investing in her career, finding a partner, you know, paying attention to her body. But, you know, and that's terrible. But there's

• 25:11Speaker 04

  also, like, talk about some of the, um, the costs to this, resentment being one of them.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Resentment is a huge one, especially with people-pleasing, because what happens is, you know, it's, it's all like the stories that we tell ourselves, right? But it's like, you know, if I don't do it, nobody else will. Like, it's like that martyr syndrome. So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna be the one to come in early. I'm gonna stay late. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get it all done. I'm not gonna set any boundaries, right? And then what happens is you start feeling that burnout, and you, then you start feeling resentful. You're resentful against everyone, right? When actually, you're the one that made these choices. You're the one that made the choice to spend your time this way, to be accessible,

• 26:01Speaker 03

  to be available, to be always on, right? But then you start feeling this resentment, and then the resentment ends up being its own time suck. Do you see, it's like, it's like this vicious cycle, because then think about like that, that's then what you're thinking about. That's, your headspace is all about feeling resentful. So that just contributes to the burnout, and it contributes to the, to the time drain. So it's really important to know that at some point, there is going to be a cost. There might be like a period of time in your career where you're just like going, going, going, doing, doing, doing, doing all the things, stepping up when nobody else does, getting it all done.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  But at some point, it, you're gonna feel it. And I think that's, and I know I have. I definitely felt it in my, in my own career. Look, I've even felt it as a mom. I've, I've felt it. I share so many stories in the book about, like, when my oldest started kindergarten, and I felt that I needed to do like all the things, you know, like at school, like everything, the, the PTA, the, you know, all of the things. And I, I share a story about how, oh, when you get those signup geniuses to sign up.

• 27:15Speaker 04

  I just did one before our recording. I signed up for the PTA bake sale. I felt guilty that I had done anything all year. Yeah.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  Right, right. So, but for me, I was always like, every single signup genius, I was always like signing up for like the hardest thing. And there was always a mom who would get into the signup genius like so fast and sign up for the paper products, you know, like the paper plates.

• 27:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, because you could just Amazon that. Yeah.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  And just Amazon it. And so like the paper plate mom, who initially, I was like so resentful against her. And then I realized, wait a second, I can learn so much from this woman.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? She's like my hero. She's setting, she knows exactly what she has the capacity to do. You know, she wants to be helpful in some way. This is her way of being helpful. And like, good for her, you know? And like, I, I just, I remember, I'm actually very good friends with her now, but like, you know, which is, which is funny, but I look at her and I'm like, that's good for her. Now, we can all learn from that.

• 28:20Speaker 04

  And I think what your book is also encouraging is for you to become more of an advocate for yourself and to speak up to say, I like the idea of this, but here's how this could work for me. And not just to make it a selfish thing, but like, I actually think this could be great for everybody. You know, like, if we make the meeting 20 minutes, but we focus on, let's say, solutions as opposed to talking about the problems for the first 30 minutes. I learned this from Morbi Parker when I interviewed the founders years ago. They don't have meetings unless they're solution meetings, because the problem can be articulated without a meeting, maybe one call. But to have every meeting first tackle a problem, no, no, it

• 29:05Speaker 04

  needs to be a solution, because the solution actually needs the team, right? Needs all the stakeholders.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  I always say, like, these update meetings are such a waste of time, you know? Like, do you really need to get everybody?

• 29:16Speaker 04

  Or standing meetings, like every week?

• 29:19Speaker 03

  Like, everybody needs to update everybody else on what they're doing? Like, where's the trust? You know, like, have, have a meeting if there's something that is really gonna require like conversation and back and forth. And maybe there's nuance, maybe there's complexity. I like this idea of you're solving for something. But I think we're just so habituated to, let's set up a meeting for that, you know? Like, whether it's in-person or, or virtual. And we do, we end up, meetings are the number one time suck. I mean, by, by far. Like, and then it's your inbox. Inbox is number two. But I'm telling you, at work, it's, it's meetings, and then it's the recurring meetings, right? Like, the weekly meetings. So much

• 30:03Speaker 03

  time. And some organizations are starting, and I really love this, to have company-wide, to block out time for like no meetings. So it's maybe Fridays from 12 to 2. Company-wide, we are not scheduling meetings.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  Good.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  And I just think that's so fantastic, because then you can use that time to like, Think, to create, or to get really immersed in a project that you're excited about, do whatever. But, or even as leaders, set an example by establishing shorter meeting times, you know? Like, there's so much that we can do as leaders, too, to be good role models for, for the rest of the team.

• 30:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. My husband, and I myself too, when I've worked in corporate, it's, it's like, all these meetings, when are people working? When are you actually applying and doing? And going back to your book launch, your bookstore launch, I also was thinking, like, Fran probably saved a ton of money by limiting herself to eight weeks, right? And you were, not only to give you clarity on the priorities, but also where to put the money to make the launch successful.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. It's so true. Because even if I think about the interior design work that we did, I think if we had had more time, I, I know I would have spent more money. I would, I definitely would have spent more money. Whereas we had to get stuff in fast. So, and it, it also, like, allowed me to see, it gave me time to see, like, what types of books, what genres are the community, are they really responding to, you know? I'm, okay, let me buy more of those. Like, it's, we're more of like, Bedford is more like literary fiction and, you know, historical fiction, thrillers, you know, not so much, like, fantasy or celebrity memoir, or, you know, like, but I didn't know that in the beginning, right?

• 32:00Speaker 03

  So if I had, like, invested too much money in genres that didn't end up resonating, that would have been wasteful, right?

• 32:08Speaker 04

  That would have been a lot of waste.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 04

  Yeah. I also like the idea that it was so smart to, to have the holiday season be your first quarter, because it will give you the runway to then start the new year and maybe be a little bit more experimental, because you have the financial cushion from the holidays, as opposed to starting in, I don't know what the book buying season is like at the beginning of the year, but all retailers have their best month in the fall, in November. So it would have been a lot trickier to navigate.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  January and February are so slow. They're the slowest months for bookstores. So having that cash that came in, in December, you know, from December 12th, when we opened, to the end of the year, having that runway to cover January and February, like, without me having to put in more money, that was huge. That was really, it was so important.

• 33:02Speaker 04

  Can you kind of distinguish between procrastination? Because some might say you procrastinated on that bookstore open. Not procrastinating as in, like, you waited so long to do it, but you didn't give yourself a lot of time, which I know is kind of the thesis of your book. But is there a positive to procrastinating? Because you only have 24 hours to get all your holiday shopping done. You know what I mean? Is there maybe a?

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:25Speaker 04

  I'm, I'm trying to find, you know, maybe a positive for all of our procrastinators out there.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you know what? There's actually a positive to all of these things, right? There, there can be positive to, to, there's, there is a time and place for perfectionism, you know?

• 33:41Speaker 04

  You talk about that in your book, giving these projects and these tasks grades, like, is it A level, B level?

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Exactly, right? Yeah. So like, and I'll, I'll come back to procrastination in a second. But like, with perfectionism, I always say, like, not everything deserves your A game, you know? And, and really kind of figuring out before you start a project or a task, what level of effort does this deserve? Is it an A, a B, or a C? You know, and sometimes doing your bare minimum is okay, too, right? Like, if I'm putting together a presentation for the board, that's probably an A level effort. But if I'm writing a routine email, maybe a C level is fine. But I don't need to keep rereading it and editing it and proofreading it and, right? So like, just really thinking about that, like, not everything deserves our A game. And then with procrastination, I, I agree for Farnoosh. It's like packing for a trip.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  Like, you know, I think it's, it can be so much more efficient, like, just waiting, for me, anyway, until, like, the night before, giving myself a short amount of time and just getting it done. Versus if I start a few days before and then I can't remember, wait, did I pack that? Did I not pack that? Do I, right? Just doing it all at once. The other positive, I would say, to procrastination is sometimes when you're making a decision and it's a really hard decision, it can be a good thing to give yourself distance from it and just, like, let it marinate a little bit, you know? Like, sometimes you'll go for a walk or you'll be in the shower and all of a sudden it'll come to you. So there are, like, there, it's, there, there's definitely a positive side to all, to all of these things.

• 35:15Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. I want to bring in AI a little bit into the conversation. You know, to be totally honest, when I read the title of your book and had no other context, I was like, is she talking about how AI is speeding up our lives? And I'm wondering if that's come up for you? And, and how in general you think AI can be a facilitator in bringing our time spent on projects to a more appropriate level?

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Look, I think AI can definitely be helpful. I know it's, it's very helpful for me in terms of creating more, more space. Like, I use AI mostly for troubleshooting, you know? Like, I can't get a hold of anybody customer service-wise. So if there's something that I can't figure out with, like, one of, like, the 50 different platforms that I use for my business, whether it's Squarespace or Gusto for payroll or whatever, like, asking ChatGPT, like, I get an answer right away.

• 36:13Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  And that saves me so much time, you know? Marketing copy and promotion, you know, promotional copy, so much time. It even, I even used it for my, my outfits for my book tour. I just, like, uploaded, like, all of, like, my, I just uploaded my closet, you know, basically.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  Did it do a good job? I mean, you look great. I didn't.

• 36:34Speaker 03

  It did such a, it did such a great job. Well, because you know what? I was like, I have so many clothes and I just needed different ways to put them together in outfits. And it's not something that I'm great at. And I, to be honest, I don't really enjoy doing it. Like, I feel like if that's something that you enjoy doing and you're, and you're good at, that's such a great way to spend your time. That's fun, right? But for me, it's not. So I'm like, let me see what ChatGPT can do. It puts stuff together with shoes and, so like, that was amazing because it basically created a lookbook for me. And there was, like, no decision fatigue, you know? Like, I'm going out to San Francisco and LA, right? Let me just pick, like, a few, like, outfits that, you know?

• 37:17Speaker 03

  So I think there's so many wonderful ways to use AI to create time and space. The biggest challenge that I'm having with, with AI right now on a personal level is it's made it so easy to create content. And so, like, people who used to be posting on LinkedIn, as an example, once a week are now posting every single day, just because it's like, it's just so easy. And I feel like a lot of the content sounds the same. And because we've lost, like, storytelling and personal and, you know, all those great things. And so I feel a little bit like we're drowning in, in content. And I think so much of that is because AI has made it so much easier.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Like, right? And just because you can doesn't mean you should.

• 38:04Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Like, that's, that's the, that's the challenge I'm having with it.

• 38:09Speaker 04

  Well, as a bookstore owner, and you've already said that this, the literary genre, the fiction, literary fiction genre is, is a big hit with your readership. But increasingly, that's the category that there's more demand for. Because, and tell me, I'm hearing this from literary agents and publishers, that prescriptive nonfiction is really so much harder. The way to, because you could go to ChatGPT and be like, well, how does Farnoosh feel about getting out of debt? Give me her 10-step process.

• 38:38Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 38:39Speaker 04

  I don't need to write a book about that. And what is selling, if you're going to be in that genre of nonfiction self-help, is to bring more narrative, more of yourself, things that the AIs don't know yet, hopefully never, about you.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Absolutely. No, you're right. I think, I see it. This is my third nonfiction prescriptive book.

• 39:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  And I think AI is, it's already starting to, but I think it's, it's going to have a really significant impact on sales and book deals. You know, look, I even see it in, in the bookstore. It's really hard to sell nonfiction. I was literally there the other day. I was looking at, you know, I was looking at the, our front table, which is all new releases. And the nonfiction books that are sitting there, like, they're just sitting there. They're, they're not moving. And it's, and I think it's because so much of that content, like you said, is available on social media in a snackable way. And it's available through AI.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  So unless it's like a memoir, you know, or like a hybrid, like memoir, prescriptive, I think these books are really, it's, it's going to be tough. I think it's going to be really tough. And it pains me to say that, because I've written three of them now, and I know you have two.

• 39:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. I think about, my last book was part memoir, but I think it would have been so much more difficult to sell it today than. And I'm, I'm seeing this too. I'm hearing this from literary agents. Like, the books that we sold two years ago, or even 18 months ago, are not even getting looked at. That, you know, this, today is just a whole different landscape. Some are saying it's cyclical. I don't think it's a cycle. I think this is like the new order.

• 40:24Speaker 03

  I think so, too. I do. I, I, I agree with you on that. I'm definitely seeing it. I'm definitely seeing it.

• 40:32Speaker 04

  Fran, ultimately, what I love about your reframe here is that we often use the expression, how much time will this take? And you're saying, how much time will this deserve?

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:43Speaker 04

  And just that simple reframe, it's everything.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  That's right. How much time does it deserve? How much time does this task? How much time does this project? How much time does this meeting deserve? And it is, I think it's a really powerful, it's a really powerful reframe. I'm so glad that you picked up on that.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  That means a lot to me.

• 41:03Speaker 04

  It's so smart because it's bringing in not just a technical reframe, but your values as well. And it's asking you to really take a step back, which we never do. We always just say yes and we keep going. I'm wearing a shirt today that I got off Etsy. It says oui mais non, which it's like a French expression, which is kind of like, translated, it's like, yes, but no, you know?

• 41:29Speaker 03

  I love that. I want that T-shirt.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Etsy, I'll link it in the show notes.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  Perfect. Please do.

• 41:35Speaker 04

  I was looking for a shirt. I'm, I don't, I've always said, no is the new yes. But I'm like, I'm in midlife. I also don't want that to say, I don't want people to think that I'm done, or I just want to go to bed at eight o'clock and call it a day for the rest of my life. I'm just here to do what's important to me, try new things, but be more exact about it. And so the oui mais non is like, for me, it's just, it's a reminder to just take a pause before you accept a challenge.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Take a pause. I always say that, like, with the people pleasing side of me, it's like, just take a pause, you know, before you say yes. You know, you can say, let me look at my calendar and I'll get back to you.

• 42:12Speaker 04

  Let me think about this. Let me think about how this could be more meaningful to everybody and do it smarter, not longer.

• 42:18Speaker 03

  Yes, power of the pause, for sure. And I want that T-shirt.

• 42:23Speaker 04

  All right. Well, I'm sending you your address. It's in the mail. Fran Hauser, thank you so much. Congratulations. 20 minutes is the new hour. And what will be your next book? Maybe fiction?

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Maybe. Trust me, I've been thinking about that. The Furnish, thank you so much. I always love talking to you. Thank you for having me.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 43:29Speaker 05

  Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?

• 43:32Speaker 06

  I have $729.71 in my bank account. We bought, you know, a $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income.

• 43:40Speaker 05

  On the podcast, What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.

• 43:48Speaker 07

  I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.

• 43:53Speaker 05

  Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.