2027: From $6 to Seven Figures, Anthony O'Neal on the Proven Path to Wealth (Encore)

Anthony O'Neal https://www.anthonyoneal.com/, had $6.32 to his name on a Wednesday night. He needed gas. He was hungry. He ended up cutting two McDonald's double cheeseburgers in half — that was his food for the next two days. He diluted his sweet tea with water to stretch it. And in that moment, eating a cold half-burger in his apartment, something shifted in him. He thought: there has to be a better way. Fast forward to his fortieth birthday. Anthony is on a private yacht off the coast of Italy. The chef comes out mid-dinner, not just to ask how the fish is — but to offer to catch that same fish again for him tomorrow. And Anthony thought back to that Wednesday night, that half-burger, that $6.32 — and he realized: he had found the better way. Anthony O'Neal is a bestselling author, speaker, and host of The Table with AO. His new book, Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck: The Proven Path to Break Free from Debt, Build Real Wealth, and Live Free on Any Income https://stoplivingpaychecktopaycheckbook.com/, is out in August. This episode aired originally on July 20. How's midlife going? Fill out Farnoosh's survey https://www.jotform.com/build/262556781257063 and help shape the podcast in 2027. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

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• 2:44Speaker 05

  So Money, episode 2027, Anthony O'Neal on breaking free from debt and building real wealth.

• 2:53Speaker 06

  You're listening to So Money with award-winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day, get a 30-minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers, and from Farnoosh herself. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons? Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life? Welcome to So Money.

• 3:19Speaker 07

  This is why I teach financial freedom. If you have financial freedom, if you can get to zero, and then on top of zero, we start investing and saving. I think one of the biggest ingredients to miss building wealth is not being in position at the right time to take advantage of the wealth opportunity. And so that's what I see a lot of. A lot of people have a lot of good ideas, but they're drowning in debt, so they couldn't jump on this opportunity. Or they have no debt, but they didn't have any savings or no capital to take advantage of this opportunity. And that's the same thing with stocks. You know, a lot of people get scared when the stock market goes down, but Farnoosh, I actually love it.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 4:00Speaker 07

  I'm like, wait, hold up, wait a minute. I've been saving for this. Let me go buy some more stocks. Let me go buy some, it's on a discount. So I think for me, my book and my brand, and even yourself, we want to help people not just get the financial freedom, but how do we put you in a position to where when the right opportunity comes, you can take advantage of that opportunity, and it will shoot your wealth a potential even higher and quicker because you were ready and in position.

• 4:29Speaker 05

  Welcome to So Money, everyone. I'm Farnoosh Torabi. You know that moment when you call your bank or you're online with your bank and you check your balance? And you discover a balance so low it stops you cold? That happened to me in college at least once. I remember trying to buy something in a store with my debit card, and it wouldn't go through. It kept getting denied. I was so confused because I was working so hard that summer. I was actually making some money, but I was also spending as fast as I was earning and not keeping an eye on my balance until it's too late. Got back to my apartment, and lo and behold, my balance online was in the negative. And our guest today, Anthony O'Neal, can relate.

• 5:13Speaker 05

  He had just $6 to his name on a Wednesday night. He needed gas. He was hungry. He ended up cutting two McDonald's cheeseburgers in half. That was his food for the next two days. He diluted his sweet tea with water to stretch it. And in that moment, eating a cold half burger in his apartment, something shifted in him. He thought, there has to be a better way. Fast forward to his 40th birthday. Anthony's on a private yacht off the coast of Italy. The chef comes out mid-dinner, not just to ask how the fish is, but to offer to catch that same fish again for him tomorrow. And Anthony thought back to that Wednesday night, that half burger, that $6, and he realized he had found the better way.

• 5:58Speaker 05

  Anthony O'Neal is back on the show today. He is a bestselling author, speaker, and host of The Table with A.O. His new book, Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck: The Proven Path to Break Free from Debt, Build Real Wealth, and Live Free on Any Income, is out soon. I gotta tell you, this is not a money book. Anthony will be the first to tell you it's a book about freedom. Here we go. Here's Anthony O'Neal.

• 6:24Speaker 05

  Anthony O'Neal, my friend, welcome back to So Money.

• 6:26Speaker 07

  Man, my system, man, how are you doing? Man, I've been looking forward to this. When my team said, hey, you're going back on, I said, let's go.

• 6:34Speaker 05

  Same. When I got the email that you had a book coming out and you want to do more press, I was like, anytime, Anthony. You're welcome here, anytime. Thank you for this newest book. I think it's really important timing, always important timing to help people with money, but especially with everything going on in the world. Your latest book is called, Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck: The Proven Path to Break Free from Debt, Build Real Wealth, and Live Free on Any Income. You could have written any book. You've written many already. Why did you want to focus on this piece and this audience? Which, let's be honest, it's most people.

• 7:09Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, you know, Farnoosh, when I think about this, this message, right? It's really, really important to me because I think, we know this, we're both in the money space, that the majority of people are living paycheck to paycheck. And I think it's not solely because they lack financial information. I think it's because no one really gave them a true, solid plan on, one, how to avoid or get out of the paycheck matter, but then, two, getting debt-free and having financial freedom doesn't start with just paying off the debt. Doesn't even start with just maybe having a little bit of margin. It's about what are we doing to progress and to build wealth? And so I remember what it was to be making, you know, $60,000 a year,

• 7:53Speaker 07

  and I didn't really have the right strategy, and I was living paycheck to paycheck. And so I said, let me write a book about my story, my journey, how I came from four loving parents, two biological parents and two stepparents who were working-class, middle-class individuals, God-fearing individuals, grew up in the church, were good people who raised good children without a good money system. And I have a lot of friends who are like, Anthony, how did you do it? Anthony, how did you? We remember when you was poor and homeless and living in the back of your car. How did you go from there to now doing what you're doing? I said, let me put it into a book where there's no fluff. You know, in today's day and time, since you see it, I don't know if you get frustrated like me,

• 8:38Speaker 07

  but it's so many financial experts online today that are selling the wrong message.

• 8:46Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 8:47Speaker 07

  And I just wanted to be able to deposit my proven system in a form of a book that can help millions and hopefully multiple millions down the road.

• 8:59Speaker 05

  And you really get honest. You talk about $6.32 that was your balance in your one account at one point.

• 9:07Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 9:08Speaker 05

  What were you trying? Yeah, I mean, this is, would you say this is one of your more honest books?

• 9:13Speaker 07

  I would say this, and I mean, no disrespect to any of my previous books, but I think this is my most, this is my favorite book because this one right here really, it took me about three years to write this one. So when I came out with my book, I think it was about a year and a half ago, take your seat at the table, that was a good book, but I had this book already started before I wrote that book. But I really wanted to make sure that I could be vulnerable, that I could be honest, that I could be transparent. I even shared some embarrassing stories about myself in there with the money. And, you know, $6.32 to my name. Went through that, spent $8,000 at a strip club at the age of 24. You know, so it's like, I really get honest about, hey, I had the money, but I didn't have the right system,

• 9:59Speaker 07

  nor did I have the right mindset.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 07

  So this book really shares from my story. And watch this. It doesn't say that you're going to get rich overnight. I think a lot of people are selling that. This book is not a sexy book. It is a book that if you apply the principles within about 18 to 24 months, you will see a different financial situation.

• 10:21Speaker 05

  Well, listen, time flies. 18 to 24 months may seem like not overnight, but it is relatively quick.

• 10:30Speaker 05

  You talk about systems and you talk about mindset. I want to sit with the mindset for a little bit because even your own story of making these choices in your early twenties, regrets, a lot of that was probably your, at the time, understanding of what it meant to kind of live it up, live it up with your hard-earned money. What were the messages that you were getting? What were the messages you wish you had received for your mind?

• 10:54Speaker 07

  You know, I was getting the message of, man, go after the American dream, right? And it bothers me that I was sold that my entire middle school and high school and the beginning of my college career, hey, get out, go to school. If you go to school, two things are going to happen. You're going to get a scholarship, get a full ride, or number two, take out debt. Then when I get onto the college campus in 2002, not only did I take out debt, but I also took out credit cards. So the world was teaching me, go after the American dream and get that credit score and consume things. I really do wish someone would have said, hey, get your grades right, get a scholarship for sure. If you don't get a scholarship, you can go to a community college.

• 11:39Speaker 07

  Hey, as a matter of fact, you're going to school to get an education, an education that will hopefully land you a job. Well, your job is to get a paycheck. How come no one taught me anything on what to do with the paycheck? What is interest and how can I actually earn interest? What is a credit card and how should I have even managed a credit card at the time if I wanted to get one? What is homeownership? Like, how do I set myself up in the next four to five years after graduating in high school to be a homeowner? What is a small business? Like, what is an entrepreneur? Like, I wish somebody really sat down with me and taught me how to build wealth, how to build financial freedom, rather than just consume.

• 12:21Speaker 07

  Because then what happened to me was, I thought, in order to get married, to find a wife, I had to spend money, a lot of money, on her. I thought that if I wanted to be accepted by, you know, the community, that I had to look cool. I thought that the only way to be successful in life is to consume nice things to portray that you are successful. But I had no idea that I needed to live below my means. I had no idea that if I got approved for a $30,000 car, I should go out and just buy me a cash car in the beginning of my teens, right? So those were the things that I wish I would have been taught, but because I had to go back to the mental, because I watched my family work hard and live paycheck to paycheck,

• 13:05Speaker 07

  I watched my family never be a homeowner until I was an adult. I thought that it was normal to live paycheck to paycheck. I thought that it was normal to have some struggles a little bit, that if you're not struggling, that just means that you ain't doing something right. But as long as you got a roof over your head, Anthony, clothes on your back and food on your table, you are okay. And that was the mindset that I had. And it wasn't until I started getting around different people that I realized that, man, I turned surviving into the norm, when I believed that I should have been thriving, but no one taught me how to thrive.

• 13:48Speaker 07

  And I had to change the mental, that, hey, yes, you can have the nice house or a newer home, you can have nice clothes, you can drive a newer car, you should have money in your savings and money in your portfolio for a good future. So I had to change that mentally.

• 14:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, the company you keep. We just had guests on the show, two women who have a podcast called Debt Heads. And they talk about debt and how it's kind of like an American true crime story, this idea that, you know, how we get into debt. Yes, of course, we have choices we regret, but also there is a system that is working overtime to make sure that we get into debt and that we stay in debt. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I want people to walk away from this, so many people feel guilty, right? They feel they made all the bad choices. They weren't proactive. They didn't seek out the right education, the guidance, the community, they didn't

• 14:49Speaker 05

  learn from their mistakes. And of course, yes, accountability is a big piece of this. Also, at the same time, there is a billion-dollar industry that is incentivized, that is rooting for your, you could argue, for your indebtedness. What do you have to say to those people? Or what do you want people to know about this system that's working in conjunction with your efforts?

• 15:10Speaker 07

  Well, the very first thing I would say is, don't feel guilty of something that you were not taught, because the system taught us to consume and to look at debt as it being normal. And so let's look at the system, right? They reward you with an 800 credit score to borrow money, but your credit score has nothing to do with the financial portfolio that you have invested. Your credit score has nothing to do with how much money you have in your savings account. Your credit score doesn't have anything to do with how much money and income you have. You can be a homeowner and have, you know, all this equity that doesn't go towards your credit score, but they reward you for how much debt you have, how often you use the

• 15:55Speaker 07

  debt, how low you can keep the debt below 30%, but they'll penalize you if you're someone like myself who doesn't even borrow from a consumer perspective, right? And so the system is rewarding you staying in the system, but they're not going to reward you if you're staying out of the system. And so what I want to encourage people is, hey, learn the game, right? And this is what I talk about in the book. Money is a game, and you're either a piece in the game or you're the player in the game. And if you can learn how to play the game, for an example, I talk about how, yeah, you do need a sum of a credit score to make sure that you're not paying high car insurance rates and make sure you get the lower interest rates on your mortgage. Well, how do you get a credit score? Play the game.

• 16:40Speaker 07

  No, you don't have to borrow money. You can go out there and find different kinds of programs out there that will put something on your credit report and you never borrowed anything for it. You may pay them $5 to report your Netflix account. Now that gets your credit score up, now you're paying low car insurance, you're getting the lower interest rates, but you're not getting in debt. You're not playing their game, but you are playing the game. And so I think for me, we've got to be smart in how we're approaching this financial situation. But everyone, there is a system that is designed to keep us as consumers, not as owners.

• 17:16Speaker 05

  Brilliant metaphor. Now, you have an escape plan in your book.

• 17:20Speaker 07

  Yes, ma'am.

• 17:21Speaker 05

  And there are five phases.

• 17:22Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 17:23Speaker 05

  You spent a lot of time on phase one, in the early days, early foundation, you know, getting the clarity.

• 17:29Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 17:30Speaker 05

  A lot of people want to skip to, just make my money grow, Anthony, okay? I get it. Why is that impulse problematic? And what does skipping ahead actually cost people?

• 17:40Speaker 07

  It costs them a lot. You know, I share this as well. One of my good friends, she is an ER doctor, and she came home one day, I was at her house with her husband, because her husband's a good friend of ours, and we played golf together. And it was about five of us sitting there, and she came home very frustrated. And on this one particular day, she's never done this before, but she came down and sat down with her husband and all the other guys, and she said, y'all, I need some help. I said, what's up, sis? And she was like, man, I'm frustrated. And I said, why are you frustrated? She said, because I'm an ER doctor. And so she's the, what they call like a second-string ER doctor, that when there's something extremely emergency, like a gunshot wound or something that is life-threatening, she is the ER doctor that deals with that stuff.

• 18:24Speaker 07

  Or on this one particular day, she didn't say exactly what happened, because that's client privilege, but she said, man, there's one particular client, and I have a lot of clients that come in in this section, and they are screaming, fix me, like, fix me. And she says, man, families are screaming, fix him, please fix him, and et cetera, et cetera. And she says, Anthony, I get discouraged because as an ER doctor, I can't fix you. My job is to get you stable to where you can live. Once I get you stable, once we get your heart beating and we're not worried about if your heart's going to stop, then I can come back in and assess, okay, what is the issue with your body? Once we identify what's the issue with your body, then from there, we call in a specialist

• 19:08Speaker 07

  who specializes in that. Bringing that over to money, it's oftentimes we'll get ourselves into all this debt, but then tomorrow we want to be rich and that it just doesn't happen. So there is a system to where, hey, you need to get your income stable. And that's why I spend so much time on this book because Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck is not a book that's going to teach you how to be out of debt tomorrow and rich next week. No, I need to first start with your mind. We need to first lay down a solid foundation so that way on the next phase, which is clear the ground, you know, it's when you're clearing the ground and getting ready, it's like, hey, I'm ready. I have a solid foundation to lay off of.

• 19:50Speaker 07

  And it's simple. When it comes to our money is you gotta have a clear vision, followed by a clear vision, you gotta know your why, because if your why doesn't make you cry, then you will never accomplish the vision.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. So true.

• 20:04Speaker 07

  It is, you know?

• 20:05Speaker 05

  It's so true. You gotta, gotta go to the dark places, I say.

• 20:09Speaker 07

  You have to. Yeah. If you don't go to the dark places, if you don't cry, then you're not going to accomplish what you want to accomplish.

• 20:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, you need that fire in your belly. You talk about stability. I want to spend some time on this because first of all, again, I just really appreciate that you're focusing on how to get to zero.

• 20:27Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 20:28Speaker 05

  When you're in the negative, because so much of the conversation is like how to build millions. And yes, of course, that's exciting. And but for most people, the dream is not to wake up and be a millionaire. The dream is to wake up and not have any more debt, right? Any, any more eating away at their paycheck. And so what would you say is the equation, the calculus for stability? And I want to know specifically, like, how much should be, how much paycheck do you need to be making really in America today to kind of make it so you can stabilize? What's your debt situation? Like, should you even borrow for, you know, a car or a mortgage?

• 21:05Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 21:06Speaker 05

  How much did you have in savings? At what point do you start to think about your retirement and investing? So maybe just like, give us a little bit of like the, the pie or the math.

• 21:17Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 05

  For, for stability today in America.

• 21:20Speaker 07

  I think for stability today, one of the key determining factors of that is going to be really about where you live. So from a broad perspective, I say everyone should be striving to make at least six figures, right? I saw a study that said recently that you now need 1.46 million dollars to retire from a healthy perspective. While I understand that number, I think that number changes for everybody because not everybody desires a certain kind of lifestyle. And so for an example, let's say if you live in Fayetteville, North Carolina, where I'm from, well, if you're making $60,000 a year there, you are doing well off because the cost of living is, is much cheaper in Fayetteville. But now if you take that same 60,000 and come to where I'm at in the DMV area, you're going to be struggling to live and survive.

• 22:05Speaker 07

  So I tell everyone strive for six figures. That's the very first one when it comes to the income. Number two is now that you're making six figures, we need to create margin. So now we need to keep your cost of living about 70 to 80% less than what you're bringing in a month. So this will put you at, I need at least three to six months of net pay sitting inside my high-yield savings account, just in case of emergency. If I had to really be, have a solid number, I would say everyone should be striving for six months because we're seeing right now, if life was to hit you, if you were to lose a job, it's taken on average about 98 days to find another job.

• 22:45Speaker 07

  So now if you have six months of your average net pay coming in, now what happens is, goes back to the mental, there's a book that talks about, we have two sides of our brain, the slow, the slow side and the fast side. If I have six months, I'm going to operate off of my slow side and I'm going to make better decisions for me and my family. If I have only a thousand dollars in my account, well, now I gotta operate off of my fast side. I'm going to make some decisions that, that may hurt me down the road. So six months is a solid one. Then from there, as you have your six months, now what I want you to do is I really, really, really want you to be investing anywhere between 12 to 15% of your income into the portfolio.

• 23:28Speaker 05

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  the best way to support the show. This podcast is brought to you by Giving Done Right. Here on So Money, we talk a lot about how to build wealth, take agency over your money, and live a rich life on your own terms. But a really rich life isn't just about the accumulation in your bank account. It's also about how you use your money to drive real change in the world. And if you've ever tried to figure out how to donate effectively, you know, it can be daunting and it can feel like a black box. Where's your money actually going? How do you know if an organization is making a real impact? That's why I want to share a podcast I've been using for guidance. It's called Giving Done Right, hosted by Phil Buchanan from the Center for Effective Philanthropy.

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  Now, this is going to vary. This is going to go anywhere from your 401K to index funds, IRAs, and including HSAs. And I don't hear a lot of financial people in the world really talking about the power of an HSA account that's attached to a high deductible health insurance policy, because we got to start educating more in that. Like, if you're in your 30s and you're healthy, why are you paying for a PPO plan? You can get a high deductible plan and invest the money, the rest of that money into an HSA account. And so that's the key thing for the pie. And then the last thing is, I think when it comes to generating income, what I'm telling everyone, don't just only invest 12 to 15%. I want you to also look into starting a business. Now, let's pause right there. When it comes to starting a business.

• 28:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:25Speaker 07

  What I'm telling this generation is, instead of starting from the ground up, Start saving money to acquire a business. Because within the next five to 10 years, we're going to see a huge shift of these older individuals who own these small companies wanting to sell, or they'll just let it go because they don't have the bandwidth and the time or the energy to run the company anymore. And so if you are in a position to where you're consumer debt free, you have a good savings account and you have some money to where you can potentially go buy a company that already has an income statement, that already has a customer base, that already has a proven system. Now you can take their old model,

• 29:07Speaker 07

  this older company with the age of tech and AI today, take that up a notch. And now you're sitting with a seven-figure business that you didn't have to start from the ground.

• 29:18Speaker 05

  This is actually, there's a company, my husband works for this company called Team Shares. This is what they do. They raise money to help out the small business owner who doesn't have a succession plan. They're about to retire. They want out, but they don't want the business to go away. So they come in and they make the existing employees shareholders as well, the Team Shares becomes a majority shareholder. But then the employees get trained up. They become stakeholders. There's now a legacy for this business. And I think to your point, what this big company sees, which is just backing up your point here. You know, if this big company is right, is like, is pursuing this in its own way, as individuals, we can do this too. I think about all the, I think about what can AI not displace?

• 30:02Speaker 05

  Right? You still need an HVAC system. You still need to eat. You still need to get your car tuned up. You still need your, your house cleaned. You know, there's all these hard work, hard workers out there, businesses run by hard workers. There is no succession plan, but maybe you can give them a lifeboat.

• 30:18Speaker 07

  And that's the thing, you know? That's one thing we've really been talking about. Because this is why I teach financial freedom. If you have financial freedom, if you can get to zero, then on top of zero, we start investing and saving. I think one of the biggest ingredients to miss building wealth is not being in position at the right time to take advantage of the wealth opportunity. And so that's what I see a lot of. A lot of people have a lot of good ideas, but they're drowning in debt. So they couldn't jump on this opportunity. Or they have no debt, but they didn't have any savings or no capital to take advantage of this, this opportunity. And that's the same thing with stocks. You know, a lot of people get scared when the stock market goes down. But, I actually love it.

• 31:01Speaker 07

  Like, I'm like, wait, hold up, wait a minute. I've been saving for this. Let me go buy some more stocks. Let me go buy some, it's on a discount. So I think for me, my book and my brand, and even yourself, we want to help people not just get the financial freedom, but how do we put you in a position to where when the right opportunity comes, you can take advantage of that opportunity and it will shoot your wealth potential even higher and quicker because you were ready and in position. But here's the thing that I have learned. And this is your show, so cut me off whenever you want me to shut up. But it's what I see is people get to zero. They see, they see a little bit of margin. When they get to zero and they see a little bit of margin, their apartment goes up, their house goes up.

• 31:46Speaker 07

  They get a new car. Now they're starting to go back to the living paycheck to paycheck because they got freedom, they got a taste of that. They see they have more money coming in. It's like, okay, wait, I have some more money coming in. I got a little bit of margin, so I can go get a new house. And what I tell everyone is when you get to zero and you see your income going up and you have some margin, do not change anything you've done for the next 12 to 24 months. Because I want you to take advantage of that margin and start investing it. And I promise you, over those next two years, you're going to see some opportunities come up that's going to expand your wealth building opportunity. That you're going to thank yourself that you didn't spend it on a liability or something that's just a perishable item. So that's what I'm, one thing I just really wanted to say. Make sure I communicate.

• 32:30Speaker 05

  Lifestyle creep is a real thing. It is. You, you have this data point in your book that really stopped me in my tracks. We know that there is the wealth gap. But you say that, and this is, this is a recent study, that by 2053, the median wealth of black Americans is projected to fall to zero.

• 32:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, zero or negative. Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 05

  Can you unpack this for me? I mean, I know that there are some serious racial inequities when it comes to building wealth in this country. I thought we were addressing some of them. So this is really working backwards. What's, what's, what's happening?

• 33:03Speaker 07

  Well, I would definitely say, we are, we are addressing. Let, let me be honest with that. I'm saying this as a, as a black man, proud black man, that there are things that I will say is being addressed. But there are a lot of things that are not. And so for us, one thing I am speaking to my particular community about is in 2053, they're saying that African-Americans will have zero to negative net worth. The zero negative net worth simply means that we don't really have the opportunity because of our current financial situations to take advantage of some of the wealth building opportunities. And so for an example, within my community, we sometimes tend to be last to certain things due to prior situations. So what I'm trying to teach my community is this,

• 33:48Speaker 07

  hey, we have to play the game and we got to play it. Because sometimes it's not unfair. If I'm just being honest, it's not fair. It is totally unfair sometimes. So let's get ourselves in position to where when a company comes available, we can buy it. Let's get ourselves in position to where we can narrow the wealth gap. Because here's the truth. I cannot ask my white brothers and sisters to stop making money. That's the only way we can close the wealth gap. Is if they stop making money and we continue making money. That's not going to happen. And that's not fair to my brothers and sisters of the opposite race. What I want us to do is how do we narrow it? And we're going to narrow it by generation. So my generation, what can we do to narrow it? How do we pass something down differently,

• 34:31Speaker 07

  which is non-debt to the next generation? Then they narrow it. Then sooner or later, five generations down the road, we could be closer on an even playing ground. And so I don't really, I don't really like the wealth gap. I have to close the gap because I think that's just somewhat impossible. But we can put a plan in place and say, you know what? I'm going to start the generational change in my family and I'm going to not pass down debt. I'm going to pass down wealth. I'm going to pass down businesses. I'm going to pass down land and opportunities. And watch this, not just land, opportunities, wealth and businesses, but even a knowledge that I've gained along these years of living. So that way, my great, great grandchildren have clear direction on what's been working for our family and how to proceed that.

• 35:16Speaker 07

  And if we do that, 2053 would just be a stat, but it won't be an actual thing that we are living and experiencing.

• 35:23Speaker 05

  Well, all the while, I can't help but think about the families that are dealing with the sandwich complexities of they're raising their own families, their children and their aging parents, who didn't read your book. They didn't, you know, they are struggling. They are paycheck to paycheck. And so now you have this sort of multi-generational intertwining. And where do you prioritize? How do you prioritize? I completely empathize with the people who say, I want, I need to help my parents because they helped me to some extent. And it's just culturally what we do, or I want to do it. I will sacrifice my own retirement to make sure my parents have a place to stay and live and eat.

• 36:07Speaker 05

  So what would be your message to these people who are really stuck?

• 36:10Speaker 07

  Isn't it funny? Every time we get on the airplane, the very first thing that the pilot says to us is put your oxygen mask on, even if you have your child next to you. And some parents say they have a hard time with that. I said, well, think about it. If you do not put your oxygen mask on first and you put theirs on, they're living, you die. You actually put them in a worse situation. Then you're just making them wait two seconds. And I think that what I would tell people, because I, I saw my mother be that oxygen, not oxygen, but that sandwich individual, because she was worried about my grandmother, her mother, but then also worried about her three kids.

• 36:53Speaker 07

  And as a child, I remember us, I remember the lifestyle before my grandma came to live with us. And before my mom started providing for my grandmother, our lifestyle was a little bit more comfortable. When grandmother came in, we lost our own rooms. And there were certain things that we had to do with my sister staying in the room with me and my brother now. That was a little uncomfortable. We weren't able to go out as much because we had an extra expense. I had to help my grandmother. So this is what I recommend to everyone in that situation. And this is going to be tough, right? It's going to be real tough for people. And, and I may get some pushback on it. But for me, I, I put my parents on a budget. Like, hey, this is all that I can give you. And I say it respectfully.

• 37:36Speaker 07

  You had the same amount of time as me to do good with your money. My responsibility is to pass down inheritance to my children's children. It's not to pass it up. And I think oftentimes what we tend to do is pass it up. And then that's why we have these generational curses and issues going on, because we're not passing it down. And so I will always make sure that I am in a healthy place. So that way, when I get of age, watch this, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to be a burden to my kids. Because I saved, I invested, I maxed out my retirement options. So when I get to 80 years old and I do need some help, well, my home is paid for. I have enough in my portfolio that all my kids have to do is just help me

• 38:22Speaker 07

  use my money the right way, that my money will pay for help. Right? I don't have to move in with them. I can just have full-time help at my house because I was thinking ahead of time. Now I'm not a burden to my kids and to my grandchildren. The only burden it is, it's just them watching me get older and, and, and them having to give me a little bit of time to help me do my stuff. But I should not be older, need them help, need their help financially and need their help from a physical perspective. Now I'm robbing from my grandchildren. And I don't want that. And so I would tell everyone, man, take care of yourself first. Put your parents on a budget. Put your kids on a budget. And make sure that you are doing what you need to do

• 39:06Speaker 07

  to make sure that you will be okay in the future.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  To wrap, Anthony, take me to the moment when you got to zero.

• 39:14Speaker 07

  Man.

• 39:14Speaker 05

  What were you doing? What did you think? What?

• 39:17Speaker 07

  I was in, I was in Nashville, Tennessee, in a one-bedroom apartment. I remember that day. I had just paid off my Acura TL. And this is going to sound so odd, right? I was so happy, but at the same time, I was so confused.

• 39:40Speaker 07

  Because I worked so hard to get to zero that I didn't know what to do next after zero. Like I had, I was like, oh, free. Like, man, all I had was just my rent. I just had, but at the same time, I was like, but what, what do I do next? Like, what's next? Like, becoming consumer debt free and hitting zero is not the end all be all. That's just the starting ground to build something amazing off of. And so I remember that day, man, it was seven o'clock at night. It was a Friday, I just got paid. I paid the last car note and I cried. Man, I was, I went out with some friends. We went to Ruby Tuesdays and I had a Long Island iced tea that night.

• 40:24Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 40:25Speaker 07

  And

• 40:26Speaker 05

  As one should.

• 40:27Speaker 07

  Yes, you know, working that hard. And they was like, man, how you feel? I said, I feel good. I was like, what you gonna do now? And that's when I went home, I was like, I don't know what to do now. Because all I know was how to pay the bills.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 40:41Speaker 07

  I didn't know how to pay myself and to build something for myself. And that started a new journey in my life, man.

• 40:49Speaker 05

  I'm so grateful for you to be on the show, to share your story. You've written this amazing book. Please write more books so you can come back. But also, even without a book, you're welcome to come back on the show. You're the best storyteller. You speak with such integrity and honesty and care. We appreciate you. Thanks so much, Anthony O'Neal.

• 41:08Speaker 07

  No, thank you.

• 41:11Speaker 05

  Thanks so much to Anthony O'Neal for joining us. His book is called Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck. The Proven Path to Break Free From Debt, Build Real Wealth, and Live Free on Any Income. Check out his YouTube, check out all of his books. I'll see you back here on Wednesday and I hope your day is so money.

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