The Weight of Sorrow

How long will you hurt yourself before you start loving yourself? Ronald Young Jr. grapples with the impending loss of his mother while still thinking about his weight. And a kid shares what it’s like to live with Gynecomastia (aka Man Boobs). STORIES The Weight of Sorrow Ronald Young Jr. grapples with the impending loss of his mother while still thinking about his weight. This story comes to us from Weight For It, https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weight-for-it/id1686599391 a production of Oh It’s Big Ron Studios https://www.ohitsbigron.com/ and is a proud member of Radiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/ from PRX https://www.prx.org/. Listen to Weight For It wherever you get your podcasts!! Follow Ron on Twitter, Threads, IG, and TikTok – @ohitsbigron Episodes of Weight For It https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weight-for-it/id1686599391are produced and written by Ronald Young Jr., with editing from Sarah Dealey. Sound design and mixing from the Reverend John DeLore of Starlight Diner. Theme music from Jay Redd, with additional music from Mass Potential, the artist DT, and the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. Episode artwork by Andy J. Pizza. If you need support for disordered eating or your body image -- please check out the resources below: Crescent Counseling Center https://crescentcounselingva.com/ Intuitive Growth Counseling https://www.intuitivegrowthcounseling.com/ National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated disorders https://anad.org/ Project Heal https://www.theprojectheal.org/ Muti-service eating disorders association https://www.medainc.org/ National Alliance for Eating Disorders https://www.allianceforeatingdisorders.com/ Eating Recovery Center https://www.eatingrecoverycenter.com/ What We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Fat https://bookshop.org/p/books/what-we-don-t-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-fat-aubrey-gordon/14443277 – Aubrey Gordon Heavy https://bookshop.org/p/books/heavy-an-american-memoir-kiese-laymon/6682101?ean=9781501125669 – Kiese Laymon Belly of the Beast https://bookshop.org/p/books/belly-of-the-beast-the-politics-of-anti-fatness-as-anti-blackness-da-shaun-l-harrison/15663994?ean=9781623175979 – Da’ Shaun Harrison The Body is Not an Apology https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-body-is-not-an-apology-the-power-of-radical-self-love-sonya-renee-taylor/7723432?ean=9781523090990 – Sonya Renee Taylor The Amazing T*tty Man How long will you hurt yourself before you start loving yourself? Nygel Turner shares what it’s like to live with Gynecomastia (aka Man Boobs). This story was produced by YR Media http://yr.media/‘s Adult ISH http://yradultish.com/ podcast. Adult ISH is a culture, advice, and storytelling show about #adulting, that is produced entirely by folks who are “almost adults”. Subscribe and listen here http://adultishpodcast.com/! Produced by Nygel Turner http://twitter.com/nygelt and Davey Kim http://daveykim.com/, sound design by Oluwafemi https://soundcloud.com/djfillme and Davey Kim. Season 16 - Episode … Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  This message comes from Betterment. Dan Egan, VP of Behavioral Finance and Investing, explains how Betterment takes the time-consuming work out of smart investing.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  I grew up learning about finance and investing myself, and realizing that I needed to reinvest dividends and rebalance my portfolio, and if there was an opportunity to tax loss over time. And then I realized that I was doing all of these things that were pretty straightforward to implement. I just needed to spend my time doing them. Betterment automates the same good practices so that I know I'm doing portfolio management and goal-based planning in a way that makes sense and is responsible, without me having to spend hours of my life doing it.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  Learn more at betterment.com. Investing involves risk. Performance not guaranteed. Betterment does not offer tax advice. TLH may not be suitable for all customers. Learn more at betterment.com/TLH-Terms.

• 1:10Glynn Washington?

  A friend of mine recently told me that whenever anyone has an outsized reaction about anything, the reaction is never about the thing. Like, if your spouse gets furious at you for leaving the cap off the toothpaste, if y'all go into a fight about that, it's not about the toothpaste. It's about something else. If she weeps because you gave her a teddy bear, it's not about the teddy bear. It's about something else. And I find that as my mother gets older, everything, everything we talk about, every word...

• 2:00Glynn Washington?

  Is about something else.

• 2:04Glynn Washington?

  What does... Mom, what'd you have for breakfast? What's it mean?

• 2:10Glynn Washington?

  It means, how are you? Are you getting around okay? Will it upset you if I send you something? Are you capable of making a meal for yourself? Which members of your support system are still around? Are you getting the nourishment you require, Mom? Are you okay?

• 2:30Glynn Washington?

  Mama, I have a deep guilt that I live a thousand miles away, but Mama, I love you.

• 2:38Glynn Washington?

  Do you know this?

• 2:42Glynn Washington?

  I don't say that.

• 2:45Glynn Washington?

  Instead, I say,

• 2:47Glynn Washington?

  Mama,

• 2:49Glynn Washington?

  what'd you have for breakfast?

• 2:52Glynn Washington?

  Heavy with the weight of a thousand sons, but make no mistake, there is joy here too. There is laughter.

• 3:07Glynn Washington?

  It's Dan Snap. We proudly present a story from a good son

• 3:14Glynn Washington?

  who loves his mother very much. Called "The Weight of Sorrow." My name's Glynn Washington. Best believe, it is never about something else.

• 3:29Glynn Washington?

  When you're listening,

• 3:31Glynn Washington?

  to Snap Judgment.

• 3:57Glynn Washington?

  We begin with a story from our friend Ron, from his amazing show, Wait For It. And between receiving the deserved awards for season one and the production of season two, creator and host Ronald Young Jr.'s mother became ill. During this period, Ronald noticed that despite going through the roughest time of his life, he still couldn't stop thinking about his way.

• 4:26Glynn Washington?

  This is the season two premiere of Wait For It.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  Wait For It is a show about the way we feel about our bodies. Consequently, each episode may include references to gaining and losing weight, eating disorders, weight loss surgery, and weight stigma. If these topics are triggering to you, please take care while listening. We have links to support resources for anyone who may need them in our show notes.

• 4:59Speaker 04

  And the winner is

• 5:05Speaker 04

  Wait For It.

• 5:10Speaker 03

  It's Tuesday, March 26, 2024, and I'm in LA giving an acceptance speech at the Podcast Academy Awards.

• 5:18Speaker 05

  This I recall to my mind, therefore I have hope. It is because of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed because his compassion's fail not, there are new every morning. Great is thy faithfulness. I want to say thank you to my family, my parents, Ronald Senior, my mother, Peggy Lee, my sister, Marilyn Denise, Bridget Quinn.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  It's been an incredible year for Wait For It. Giving this speech was one of the culminating moments.

• 5:43Speaker 06

  And the winner is Wait For It.

• 5:46Speaker 03

  And because the show won awards in three different categories, it would be one of three 30-second speeches I'll give.

• 5:53Speaker 05

  Anybody who independently produces understands that you spend so much of your time, like by yourself, you know what I mean? Like, you're writing, and you're editing, and you're cutting tape, and you're doing all that, and then you have to wonder, like, is this good? Is this good? Are people even gonna like it? But I guess I don't have to wonder anymore.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  I'm excited, I'm proud.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  But I'm not exactly having a great time.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  About an hour before I give that speech, I get word that my mother was admitted to the hospital. She needed to have a procedure called pericentesis. She'd been experiencing some discomfort in her stomach from a condition called ascites, which is a fluid buildup. It's common for folks who have cancer, late-stage cancer.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  She hasn't been feeling well for a while.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Her birthday was March 23rd, just three days before I give that speech in LA. I feel good about leaving because she seemed great on her birthday. On that day, me, my sister Marilyn, and my dad were all at the house with her. We made brunch together, watched movies, and we laughed and laughed like we normally do.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  When my family gets together, there's often a lot of gentle teasing of one another as we share stories that some of us may have missed. It's always done with love and smiles.

• 7:25Speaker 03

  Like one time, my mother was telling me about my father's tendency to be early to the farmer's market.

• 7:30Speaker 07

  I'm standing on the side of the road at 7:25 in the morning, wondering, "How did I get out here?" You're probably wondering, "Oh, my God." Right. Oh, then this guy, he goes and puts the money in the machine for three hours. Get the parking meter? And the money, three hours. I'm like, "What we gonna do?"

• 7:58Speaker 07

  Right, you laugh it up. You chuckle it up over there, mister, because we still didn't get to Saturday. Now, you know you gotta get out early.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  I get back from LA on Friday, March 29th. By then, my mother was checked out of the hospital and back home. I immediately went to my parents' house to see her. She seemed fine and like herself for the most part. We were talking in her office. It used to be my childhood bedroom. I spent a lot of time in this room. Now, so has she. Praying, studying the Bible, talking to us on the phone and FaceTime, sewing, watching her shows, sitting and thinking. I asked her about what the oncologist said about her ascites. She mentioned a few things he'd said, but struggled to recall the specifics of what he told her. But she had an appointment the following week, and I told her I'd be joining her and dad this time.

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Then my dad walks in and asks how the award ceremony went. We talk about that for a while and laugh some more. They seemed proud of me. That feels good. I hug them and kiss my mom on the cheek and leave.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  On Sunday evening, I get a text from my sister who mentions that she needs to talk to me about mom. She's worried, I'm worried. I call her and she tells me that mom is having gaps in her memory. She doesn't remember going to church that day. She doesn't remember the last few months. She doesn't remember that her mother died. She doesn't remember that she has cancer. I realized that her struggle to recall the details of her oncology appointment wasn't a coincidence. I'm stunned, I'm scared, I don't know what to say or do. I eventually rally and go to the house and help look after mom for the next few days. I explained to her repeatedly that we're not sure what's happening in her brain, but

• 9:54Speaker 03

  she'll be okay. She doesn't remember exactly what's going on because she can't retain anything, but she knows something is wrong. And she keeps asking us, "What's wrong with me? Am I okay? Why does my head hurt so bad?" We take her to the hospital on Wednesday, April 3rd, and we find out that she had a stroke. She actually had multiple strokes and farcions in the brain. The young family was now on high alert. I dropped everything to be by her side as much as I could, alternating and working with Marilyn and my dad. We're all hyper vigilant. We are a family of faith. We trust God to heal my mom.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  But what we didn't know then was that March 26th was the beginning of the end game. My mother was going to die.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  I'm Ronald Young Jr. and this is Wait for It.

• 11:07Speaker 07

  Hello. Always Big Ron Studios. Hello.

• 11:18Speaker 07

  Hello, it's Peggy Lee.

• 11:29Speaker 07

  I noticed it in like late November, early December of last year.

• 11:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember the same. It was about December 2023.

• 11:38Speaker 07

  Right, yes.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. I saw mom. She walked downstairs. She looked at me and I remember she stood there. She's like, hey Ronald. I was like, hey. And I gave her a hug and I was like scared. That's me talking to my sister.

• 11:49Speaker 07

  My name is Marilyn Denise Young. I am your sister, your older sister.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  December 2023 was when we first noticed that my mother had lost a significant amount of weight. Marilyn and I were talking about how we felt when we saw her.

• 12:02Speaker 07

  My first thought was relax Marilyn, because I tend to go way too far down the road.

• 12:08Speaker 07

  And it was startling to me because it felt like it was happening way too quickly. I thought, oh God, you know, what, what is this, you know, immediately?

• 12:22Speaker 07

  I was scared. I was very scared.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  Seeing my mother made me think about Chadwick Boseman. Do you remember when Chadwick Boseman lost a lot of weight?

• 12:31Speaker 07

  Yes, I remember seeing him and thought, wow, he's really slim when he was in that nice, white, kingly looking outfit at the Oscars or something, one of those. And I remember thinking, he looks really nice. He seems thin.

• 12:44Speaker 03

  Chadwick Boseman, the actor who played T'Challa or The Black Panther as a part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. He also played the roles of important black historical figures, Jackie Robinson, Thurgood Marshall and James Brown. He was beloved in the black community and personally, I'd become a huge fan of his career.

• 13:07Speaker 07

  And it's crazy because I did not see a lot of him before he passed away.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Chadwick Boseman died of colon cancer in 2020. His death was a shock to many of us. Most people didn't know he was sick until after he died. He kept it very private and we misread the signs. There were discussions and even some headlines about the state of his body. He'd done a live stream for charity and a bunch of commenters were all talking about the fact that he was too skinny. Only a few commenters expressed actual worry or concern. It was more about the aesthetic.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  For a long time, it was impressed upon me that losing weight was always a good thing. I'm used to thinking about my own weight, but noticing my mother's weight, especially in this way, was new. If you're straight-sized and have never been fat, it seems that you have a threshold for weight loss. You can read the limits of the threshold in people's faces and words. You haven't reached it as long as you're getting compliments and encouragement. Typically, we don't get looks of concern or worry when we're losing weight unless we've exceeded that threshold. My mother had exceeded the threshold. At other times in her life, I think she would have been happy to lose weight, would have

• 14:32Speaker 03

  loved to get compliments and congratulations. She was like, like as athletic as she could be. Yes. You know what I mean? And I feel like that was, like, she was, I think, because mom looked at herself in the mirror sometimes and was like, "My face is chubby." Right. Or like, probably the same ways that you think about yourself. Yes. You know what I mean? And then when it got to the point where she wasn't eating or drinking, Yeah. that's when we like, it was, it was just like, you know, we can't even, what are we, what are we doing here? You know what I mean? So. But now, my mother was also concerned about her weight loss and was struggling with her appetite. Recently, I found a video on her phone where she reached out to a friend of hers who had beaten cancer for advice.

• 15:10Speaker 06

  Hi Carolyn, I think we're playing FaceTime tag. Anyways, I just had a question. When did you get your appetite back? Yeah. Because I'm having difficulty with that. All right then. Bye-bye.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Most times I've seen my mother worried, it was on our behalf, my father, my sister, or me. But in this video, I saw something in my mother that I recognized as I'd begun to see it frequently in the months leading up to her death. She was worried and afraid of what was happening to her.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  I don't know that Marilyn or I will ever be able to see a person lose weight and not think the worst ever again.

• 16:06Speaker 07

  I don't associate it with anything good. I think it's something horrible has happened. They're stressed. Even while we were going through it, Dad lost a lot of weight and it was frightening.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  I don't remember a specific moment when I noticed my dad's weight loss. When you get older, the less time you spend around your parents, the less time you spend examining them. But I do remember the first salient thought I had about my dad's suddenly lean frame, and it was, how could our bodies be so different? The second thought was, was he always this small?

• 16:42Speaker 03

  The physical differences between me and my dad are a deep source of insecurity for me. For a while, it was just height-based. He stands at six feet tall, and I'm five foot nine. But as I gained weight as an adult, I noted that he's much leaner than I am. My dad is former military and goes to the gym every day. He's a fit person. He has broad shoulders and just looks like the type of person that if something went down, he'd be ready to go. Some of that is also in his personality. Former drill sergeant, longtime preacher, and assistant pastor at my church, my dad is reliable and ready to support the people that he loves. Physically, he's just always looked like a solid person you can

• 17:23Speaker 03

  depend on. But when my mom got sick, my dad got very stressed. With my mom's illness came the awareness of her mortality. Being there more meant that I began to examine my father more closely as well. I was worried about both of them.

• 17:43Speaker 07

  And it wasn't always Dad's weight. It was the, you know, when somebody says they looked haggard. Dad looked haggard in his face, you know?

• 17:53Speaker 07

  And that was frightening for us.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  During this time, I didn't lose weight. I gained weight because unlike my father, I'm a stress eater. It's something I learned about myself because of something else that happened that involved my mother. Nine 11. Yes, the actual nine 11. At the time, my mother was working at the Pentagon. I was in leadership class when Corey McConnell ran by the door and said, they just flew planes into the Pentagon and World Trade Center. I ran to the band hallway where there was a phone and called my mom. She immediately answered and she said she was fine. She was answering phones and being all she like basically got staffed up for a temporary work detail while she was there. Because she didn't run and everybody else ran, which was wild. They sent us home.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  I went home and it was like, you know, you get out of high school like two o'clock. So it's 2:00 PM, I'm home. News is on and I remember the weekend before that mom had gone to Costco. And she came home and she said, hey, Ronald, I got you these chicken enchiladas. That way, if you get hungry when you get off of school, you can eat some of these chicken enchiladas. Throughout the week and I said, oh, thanks, mom. I was like, great. She bought those chicken enchiladas on Saturday. Nine 11 was on Tuesday. It was on a Tuesday, so I hadn't touched those chicken enchiladas on Monday. On Tuesday, I get home and I'm like, I walk in the house and I'm crazy hungry. So I'm like, I eat some chicken enchiladas and then the phone starts ringing off the hook and I'm working. You called too, because you were in Norfolk State. People from church, everybody around just being like, is mom OK? Is mom OK? And I'm getting worried and worried. Two things happened.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  One, I ate some chicken enchiladas. I'd answer the phone and then someone called again. I'd eat some more chicken enchiladas.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  And then someone called again, I ate some more chicken enchiladas. They were gone and then I passed out on a nap for like two hour, two, three hours till dad came home. Hey, boy, I'm like, OK, dad's home. And a mom didn't end up coming on till eight o'clock and I'm like, everybody's chill. You know what I mean? Like, we good. And I think that's when I first realized that I was a stress eater.

• 19:52Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  So during this entire process, uh, and dad acknowledged it at one point too, cause I like, what happens is I won't eat for a while, uh, like, cause I'm stressed.

• 20:03Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  And then I'll like, I'll have a little bit of a relief and then I'll just eat everything.

• 20:08Speaker 07

  Anything in sight. I agree. Yes.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  Marilyn understood because she too is a stress eater.

• 20:14Speaker 07

  Mid twenties, relationships with some guy didn't work out, thought he was doing something. He didn't have no business. Let me eat this entire pizza, you know, that type of thing.

• 20:27Speaker 07

  Or just sit watching TV stressed, eating all the snacks in the house, which is why I don't keep snacks in the house now, which is crazy because I love snacks.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  I think I realized when I knew that you were a stress eater. We were dropping you off at, uh, at Norfolk State University and you were going to be, we had dropped you off. We had brought all this food for you and you had your sheets and stuff. You were setting up the room. While we were there, something had happened. I don't remember what it was and you got, you were like, oh man, you got upset and you goes, where are those Oreos?

• 21:00Speaker 03

  And this was like, and I remember dad, dad was like, you don't need to be eating all those Oreos. He's like, when you get, when you get hungry, read the Bible.

• 21:07Speaker 07

  I think I remember that.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  Marilyn and I were built differently than my dad. So during our mom's decline in health, while our dad is losing weight and looking haggard, Marilyn and I were gaining weight and probably still looking haggard. And despite this chaotic moment of crisis with obviously bigger fish to fry, both of us desired to be more like my father in the most inconsequential of ways.

• 21:35Speaker 07

  People are going through stuff every day, hard stuff, and it affects you whether you like it or not. Dad tends to lose weight, which I would love to have that. Thank you. But no, I don't have that. I have the game. So I mean,

• 21:47Speaker 03

  Why would you love to have that?

• 21:50Speaker 07

  I would rather be smaller than I am.

• 21:57Speaker 07

  But that's, it's not a healthy thing at all.

• 22:02Speaker 07

  Because like, like we were frightened for dad. If I was to, because I unfortunately stress a lot. Less than I used to, but I, I tend to get stressed. And you know, I say I want that because I would look cute in my clothes, but you would still be stressed.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  I think, uh, that's one thing hits me. I think the same thing. Like, I'm like, man, it must be a gift to lose weight when you are stressed.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  I hate that this is a real thought that we have. We're losing our mother. And both Marilyn and I agree that it would be easier if we were also losing weight.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  And in the middle of this crisis, my thoughts on weight have gone into overdrive. I'm noticing weight all around me now more than ever. My moms, my dads, the doctors and nurses, other visitors, everyone. I'm wondering how they handle stress. I'm wondering what they think of me. And this isn't just in my head. I'm still getting validation from folks all around me that despite being in grief, me being fat is still up for discussion. As I'm spending more time at church recently, I'm hearing the comments from folks who haven't seen me there in a while about how I look.

• 23:17Glynn Washington?

  I didn't recognize you because you gained so much weight.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  You're not running any marathons this year, huh?

• 23:21Glynn Washington?

  I used to have a gut like you, but I lost 30 pounds.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  After my mom died, my father, sister and I went to the funeral home to plan the homegoing service arrangements. I remembered sitting there in a state of shock that we were doing this. It was surreal. But even in that moment, weight came up. One guy in an effort to be congenial with my dad pointed out that he's in good shape as a 70-year-old man. He then says, I'm always wondering how elder young keeps the weight off. Apparently my dad is still within the compliment and congratulations threshold of weight loss. As we continued looking at caskets, I noticed that there was an additional cost for bigger caskets for folks over a certain weight, which I exceeded. That same weight limit existed for cremation.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  I thought to myself, whoever has to dispose of my body is going to have to pay extra.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  I don't want to notice anyone's weight. And the way I try to offset the noticing is by making sure I never talk about it. I try not to engage in weight conversations outside of the discussions of this podcast, of course, but not talking about it isn't making me more liberated. It doesn't stop the noticing. Some of this is the byproduct of my instinctual urge to want to know if I'm the fattest person in a given room. This is similar to the way that I count black people in rooms that are largely white. There's a pecking order with race and weight, and in real time, I find myself looking for allies and sympathizers. But I don't really understand why I couldn't turn this part of my brain off when my mom was dying in front of me.

• 25:11Glynn Washington?

  More from Ron when we return. Stay tuned.

• 25:25Speaker 03

  At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry. But, but we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or Politics. Country music. Hockey. Sex of bugs. Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not-science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers. And hopefully make you see the world anew. Radiolab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get your podcasts.

• 25:57Glynn Washington?

  Welcome back to Snap Judgment. Today, we're featuring Wait For It. Let's get right back into it with Ron.

• 26:05Speaker 07

  Typically, depending on what the decision is or what, what choice you're getting ready to make, I will hold my peace and wait until you come and ask me. Now, some stuff, you know, we can't say anything about. We want to say something, but what we've learned also is that if, and I'm probably giving away all my secrets right now.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  Go for it. Hey, we're adults.

• 26:25Speaker 07

  We're all adults here.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  That's my mom talking with me on the very first episode of my very first podcast, Time Well Spent. She's talking about her strategy for advising us when it came to making big decisions.

• 26:37Speaker 07

  We would say, we would say, well, you could do it this way or you can do that. But, you know, the choice is ultimately yours. And then we would say, well, you know what you're doing. We really meant, we really hoped you did. And you did know what you were doing.

• 26:51Speaker 03

  My mom was very intentional in her parenting style. She was always available when we needed her. She could always tell when we were stressed out. My mother could see when I was upset to the tiniest degree. She could read at 100 yards if I wasn't well. She would sense it even if she hadn't seen me recently. She would call and ask, are you well? And typically, those calls only happened when she had sensed correctly that I was not. Sometimes she would use our bodies as a barometer for the state of our minds. I told Marilyn a story about the time mom had a good read on me at my college graduation. So when I, when mom came to, uh, mom came to graduation and she saw me and she remember,

• 27:34Speaker 03

  I remember she mentioned this. She was like, are you good? You okay? And I remember I was, I was not okay. I was stressed out from like work, all that stuff. And I had like put on a lot of weight at that moment. And like she could tell like my face was puffy, whatever. But I remember mom noticing and being immediately identifying that the problem was not the weight, but the weight was indicative of something else. And she didn't moralize the weight. She was like, you are stressed. You will be okay, which was, which was fine. You know what I mean?

• 28:04Speaker 07

  She's amazing that way.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  Marilyn and I both had stories like this about mom, where she looked at our physical state and identified something else was going on. Ironically, it was also at Marilyn's college graduation.

• 28:20Speaker 07

  When I graduated, my hair was crazy. I let my friends perm my hair. It looked all wild. And she saw me and you guys were there. And I really was happy to see you, but I think there was a bit of manic craziness behind.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, you were definitely crazy. I remember.

• 28:32Speaker 07

  Yeah. And it was stress. It was stress. And mom, mom knew it right away. And mom had a good way of, of getting, you know, we're not sanctifying mom. She was definitely human, but she was good about that, about finding that it wasn't a moral issue.

• 28:49Speaker 03

  I know weight isn't a moral issue. I know it isn't. I also know that a person's body isn't always directly related to their trauma, or that how anyone looks should be automatically assumed to be symptomatic of anything else. Sometimes, my mom noticed my weight in a way that I hated. She used to rub my stomach when I saw her and say, "Ooh, boy, what you been eating?" She would always say it while smiling and laughing, that gentle teasing. I knew she didn't mean no harm. But it always made me feel self-conscious, and I wished I could shrink myself. Sometimes with all the negative feedback I get from the world about being fat,

• 29:30Speaker 03

  my mother rubbing my stomach and reminding me I'm fat didn't feel like love. It felt like ridicule. But I know that my mom loved me.

• 29:42Speaker 07

  Mom just loved you. She just loved us. It didn't matter. She just loved us. And that was, that was, you knew that she, we knew that she loved us. We didn't have to question it. We knew it.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  I fundamentally know that this is true. When my mom got sick, sometimes I would sit next to the bed and hold her hand. I would kiss her head and rub her legs and feet. Towards the end, my mom would go in and out of delirium. Sometimes she'd be with us, and sometimes she wasn't.

• 30:17Speaker 07

  I feel like it was hard at the end. It seemed like she was just going through so much that we weren't a part of. We were there for her, so whenever she had lucid moments and was able to recognize us, we were there, and I think she was glad to see us. But it was just hard, and I wish that it wasn't so hard for her.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  I know it was hard for her. It was hard to watch her suffer. Sometimes I would stand next to the bed and cry quietly. Sometimes I wouldn't be crying, but I'd be visibly upset. I couldn't hide it. I just wanted her to be healed. When she saw that I was upset, sometimes she would reach out and rub my stomach. She was dying, but she was still being my mom. She wanted me to be okay. I knew it wasn't to make me feel bad about being fat. I knew it was because she loved me and she wanted me to feel better.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  Those belly rubs on her deathbed unraveled my feelings of self-consciousness. I no longer felt like I needed to shrink myself. I didn't feel ridiculed. I felt loved. And I wish I could say I'm now liberated. I wish I could say that epiphany rang deep into my soul and changed the way that I view myself and the way others view me. But it didn't. I am still thinking about being fat. I'm still noticing the weight. My mother is gone. And I'm left here with my sorrow.

• 32:14Speaker 07

  We're kind of proud of you now. You've come a long way and we really appreciate both of you. We see where we have grown and we've also seen where you have grown as well.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And we have grown proud of you.

• 32:25Speaker 07

  Yes. Thank you. All right. Love you. All right, Marilyn. All right. Bye-bye.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  So we have to do the music?

• 32:42Speaker 03

  Wait for It is a production of Oh It's Big Ron Studios and is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, creator-owned, listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at radiotopia.fm. This episode was produced and written by me, Ronald Young Jr. Our story editor is Sarah Dealey. Sound design and mixing from the Reverend John Delore of Starlight Diner. Show art by Heather Wilder. Episode art by Andy J Pizza. Theme music from Jay Redd, with additional music from Mass Potential, the artist DT, and the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. Special thanks to my sister Marilyn Denise Young, my father Ronald Young Senior, our

• 33:27Speaker 03

  dear friend Carolyn Perry, and of course to my mother, the late and always great, forever loved Peggy Lee Young. You can follow me on Instagram, Threads, X, and TikTok @OhIt'sBigRon. That's @O-H-I-T-S-B-I-G-R-O-N. You can find out more about this show and other Oh It's Big Ron Studios shows by following us on Instagram @OhIt'sBigRonStudios. If you have a story about weight you'd like to share with us, shoot us an email at wait@ohit'sbigron.com. That's W-E-I-G-H-T at ohit'sbigron.com.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  Wait for it.

• 34:19Glynn Washington?

  Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ronald Young Jr. And big love to you and your entire family for sharing this with Snap. The entirety of Wait for It Season Two is now available everywhere you get your podcasts, including episodes about air travel and the origin of acronym BBW. You can follow Ronald on IG, on Threads, and Blue Sky @OhIt'sBigRon. You can hear more from Ron talking about television and film on his podcast Leaving the Theater and Pop Culture Debate Club, Fluminata, and the BBC.

• 35:01Glynn Washington?

  Now, after the break, an entirely different body obsession when Snap Judgment continues. Stay tuned.

• 35:20Glynn Washington?

  Welcome back to Snap Judgment. For our next story, we go to Snap's resident youngin, and adultish podcast host Nigel Turner, tells a story about how he discovered his own truth. And just a heads up, Nigel's truth involves a little bit of Nigel's adult language. Nigel.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  My Auntie Tanya always says that whenever she pulls up at the house, she can count on seeing little me out on the front lawn, naked and watering the grass. "There's my naked baby," is what she yells out to me to this day, sometimes even in our place of worship.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  But when I was 12, I don't know, I kind of stopped with the whole free body stuff. One day, I'm taking off my shirt to hop in the shower when I notice a small lump behind my left nipple. This lump most definitely wasn't there yesterday, so I use my index and thumb and give it a quick assessment.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Underneath my skin, I feel something the size of one of those Captain Crunch Crunch Berries, and it's as hard as a rock.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  I give it a quick squeeze, and I immediately burst out into tears. "It's cancer," I tell my mom, who immediately takes me to the doctor, who says, "Well, for starters, take a sigh of relief. It's not cancer."

• 36:49Speaker 03

  "Well, what is it?" my mom says. I'm still holding my breath.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  "It's a condition called gynecomastia."

• 36:56Speaker 04

  "Gynecomastia what?"

• 36:57Speaker 03

  "It's actually pretty common. Seventy percent of boys develop extra breast tissue when they're going through puberty."

• 37:03Speaker 04

  "What?"

• 37:04Speaker 03

  "And so, it might look like they have the beginnings of female breasts."

• 37:07Speaker 04

  "Female what? Oh." My mom says.

• 37:12Speaker 04

  But I'm like, what? Why is everyone being so calm about this? Don't worry, son. It should go away by the time you're about 22. 22? I'm gonna be old and married with kids by 22.

• 37:28Speaker 04

  What the doc doesn't mention is that the lump will also duplicate itself behind my right nipple, and that the lumps are going to get bigger and more noticeable, like the size of golf balls, which will stand out, especially if you're a skinny kid like I am.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  So I begin wearing baggier shirts, even though tight tees are in. And not only that, I only wear shirts with huge logos on the front, so you can't see the shape of my chest. But by the time that I start talking to girls, I take it to a new level. Every time, before I leave my house, I tear a long silver strip of duct tape and wrap it around my entire chest and back, like a sports bra. Still, I always feel like people just know. I confide in my dad and my older brother. They're actually concerned, at first. But once they hear that it'll eventually go away, the condition becomes a huge running joke.

• 38:30Speaker 04

  Come on, [BLEEP] man! Run faster, [BLEEP] man! At first, I laughed with them, cuz honestly, it was a hilarious nickname, no lie. But after a while, it gets old. It becomes painful and it tears my self-confidence to pieces. The only way I get through it is by repeating to myself, over and over. This is temporary, only until I'm 22.

• 39:00Speaker 04

  Even with the duct tape, I begin to hunch my back and try to hide my chest in public, or whenever family or friends come over. But still, my dad calls me over. "Hey, Nige, come downstairs. Your uncle is here. Say hi."

• 39:15Speaker 03

  Hi Uncle. Alright, now take your shirt off and show them.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  I feel like a circus freak. The amazing [BLEEP] man. Only until I'm 22. Nah, forget that. I gotta do something.

• 39:33Speaker 03

  First, over many weeks and months, I try to massage the lumps and the smaller pieces. But that doesn't work. Then, I start working out six days a week. Two hours of cardio in the morning and weights at night. I follow the strictest diet plan of chicken and fish and brown rice and whatever vegetable of the day, hoping that my chest would fill out and no one would notice.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Eventually, I'm in the best shape of my life and the lumps are actually a little less noticeable, but I still hate my body. So as a last resort, I go to my dad's toolbox. I take out the heavy-duty pliers and I carefully position the jaw around the hard tissue.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Three,

• 40:25Speaker 03

  two, one. Then I squeeze the pliers as hard as I can. I immediately hit the floor crying. Once I wipe my tears, I check my chest.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  The lumps are still intact.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  I give up. This is how it's gonna be until I'm 22, I guess. So, I get comfortable never going swimming anymore, even though I love to swim. I become that cool kid at all the pool parties, who just shows up with his best fit, like I'm too good to be splashing around in the pool. Even in suits, I would just never take my jacket off, no matter how hot it would be. I built a whole persona around hiding my body. And it works.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  In high school, I'm on the basketball team. So when I have to change into my uniform, I rush to the locker room early and change in the stall. Once, I hear my teammates making fun of another player who also has Well, you know what they call it.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  I'm surprised to learn one of my friends around my age has gynecomastia. He's never mentioned it to me, and I've never, you know, done a close chest examination. I only find out because I hear some of my friends gossiping about his man boobs. Apparently, one hot day, they all hung out, and he took his shirt off and they all just see it. Just like that. It was never a thing, though. He continued to take his shirt off despite jokes or snickering. I really want to be like him, but I can't.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Girlfriends is where it gets real tricky. Before I can even get close to a girl, I know I have to admit my darkest secret. So I always do this over the phone and just be honest. And surprisingly, that conversation always goes pretty well. Turns out, they don't really care. Or that's what I want to believe. In my mind, I wonder if they don't think it's a big deal because I usually lead with my humor and personality before I reveal my secret. But I don't know, everyone has something, right?

• 42:48Speaker 03

  But behind closed doors, I start to fantasize about the future. You know, once I turn 22 and I become an adult, the lumps will just pack their bags and go. Then I could post a picture with my wife on the beach on our honeymoon. I could swim at pool parties. What if on a daily jog around my block? I can just take my shirt off like I see all my friends do without even a second thought when it gets too hot. I don't celebrate birthdays, but I'm excited about turning 22. But when the day comes, when I turn the age I have been waiting and praying for to finally feel comfortable in my own skin, the age where I finally am supposed to start loving myself. The lumps are still there.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  There is one more option. It's something I never thought I would do. It's expensive and it's problematic. I've been working part-time, saving all my money for a Jeep Wrangler. But I won't be able to get that Jeep if I do this. Plastic surgery.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  I always watched that show, Boshed with my Dad, about plastic surgery gone wrong. Plastic surgery always seemed like it was for rich people. Rich white people, really. Well, really rich white women. It's something that felt taboo. But I really want my body to look like what I think a man's body is supposed to look like. Like what I see on TV and movies, like what everybody else looks like. I want that so much. So I took my $10,000 that I had saved for the first time in my whole life. And instead of getting my dream Jeep Wrangler, I drive an hour to the best plastic surgeon in Northern California.

• 44:44Speaker 03

  The waiting room is full of middle-aged women and me. I'm scribbling down questions to ask my doctor before he puts me under, basically wanting to make sure that I don't die in here. Honestly, I'm pretty scared. Why didn't I just buy that Jeep? No. Invest in yourself, Nigel. Invest in yourself.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  After surgery, I wear a compression recovery vest for a couple of weeks. Then, finally, the day that I've been waiting for.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  I nervously walk to the bathroom and lock the door. I take off my vest and peel off the bandages around my chest.

• 45:41Speaker 03

  And then I finally take a look.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  I feel amazing.

• 45:50Speaker 05

  I finally love my body. I finally love myself. And I don't know how to really describe it, but I kind of finally feel whole. I start working out again after I heal, looking at myself every day in the mirror, flexing, taking shirtless videos and putting them on Snapchat for the first time in my life. But then, I'm looking at a picture of myself, my happy self, and a new kind of self-hate starts to creep in. Why am I acting like this is some kind of accomplishment? I'm smart. I'm not a follower, but I was willing to spend $10,000

• 46:35Speaker 05

  to change my body so that I would make more sense to myself when I look in the mirror. That blows my mind to this day. I get ready to go to a pool party at a friend's house. I'm gonna take off my shirt and jump in in front of everybody. I hop into my car, 2006 Honda Accord, and roll out, windows down. And the check engine light comes on again. Sometimes, I still wish I could have just got that Jeep.

• 47:17Glynn Washington?

  Thank you, Nige, for sharing your story with the Snap family. This piece was brought to you by Adultish. It's a culture advice and storytelling show created by YR Media and Snap Judgment alumnus Davy Kim. It's hosted by 20-something know-it-alls, Nige Turner and Merck Nguyen. And they recently dropped their fourth season with their friends at Radiotopia by PRX. So be sure to subscribe to Adultish and show them some love. The music for this story was composed by Oluwathemi and Davy Kim.

• 48:22Glynn Washington?

  Oh, you made it. And if you missed even a moment, no. The Snap Judgment Storytelling Podcast awaits your ears each and every week. Your reviews on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, on Amazon Music make Snap Snap. And know this, you can walk the Shadowlands with our evil twin podcast Spooked. Stories are the things that go bump in the night. Available wherever you get your podcasts, KQED in San Francisco and Snap's Orbiting Hall of Justice, Snap is brought to you by the team that knows to eat everything on their plate. Except for the uber producer, Mr. Mark Ristich, who for some reason, after dinner at someone's home, serves himself an

• 49:07Glynn Washington?

  enormous second helping and doesn't touch a bite. Now, there's Nancy Lopez, Pat Massey Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Gorio, John Facile, Shayna Shealy, Taylor DeCott, Flo Wiley, Bo Walsh, Marissa Dodge, David Exame, Regina Badiaco, and this is not the news. No way is this the news. In fact, in the middle of the night, you can wake up, remember a beloved toy from childhood, immediately buy that toy from eBay, and when it arrives, priority shipping three days later, discover the exact same piece that's missing from the box as when you were a kid, and

• 49:48Glynn Washington?

  you would still not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is P-R-X.