The Hired G.U.N. - Snap Classic

Sir Dyno is the Chicano Eazy-E, the king of lowrider car shows, an up-and-coming gangsta rapper straight outta Northern California. But when he gets the money to finance his next CD, he has no idea that the same music that made him a legend will also lead to his downfall. This story contains drug references and offensive language, sensitive listeners please be advised. Thank you, David Rocha, for sharing your story with us. Thanks also to Sharon Rocha, Justin Berton & Julia Reynolds. David Rocha left prison in June 2009. He became a pastor and started a church in Modesto called House of Rest. https://www.houseofrestchurch.com/ Produced by John Fecile. This story featured the music of David Rocha, the original score is by Renzo Gorrio. Artwork by Teo Ducot. Snap Classic – Season 16 – Episode 26 Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:08Glynn Washington?

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• 0:48Glynn Washington?

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• 1:21Speaker 01

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• 1:30Speaker 02

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• 1:45Speaker 01

  Learn more at betterment.com. Investing involves risk. Performance not guaranteed.

• 1:54Glynn Washington?

  Okay, so, first of all, everything I'm about to tell you is all my fault. If anyone should have known better, I should have known better. It's just that I've been away from my extended family for a while. Somehow, I forgot the insane survival techniques you must employ to survive our gatherings. Plus, I was hungry, so my aunties announced that it's time to eat, and the backyard barbecue is set out. I make the mistake of getting up to fix myself some food. No one else gets up. That should have been my first clue. One of my cousins looks at me, wide-eyed, shaking his head warningly, but I figure,

• 2:40Glynn Washington?

  if he's got something to say, tell me after. I grab a paper plate and start heaping potato salad on it. Then I hear one of my aunties. That's the potato salad you gonna eat? Then my other auntie. Put that potato salad on this plate, Danny. And I know I've made a rookie error. Maybe some slight at church, maybe a missed phone call, perhaps some stray gossip. I don't know who did what, but I do know the two matriarchs are at war again.

• 3:17Glynn Washington?

  The latest battleground being whatever I stick in my mouth. Everyone else turns away, leaving me exposed. So now, I gotta pick through this spread, this minefield of delectables, and figure out who made what, and choose a precisely equal amount from each faction, knowing the slightest misstep will have generational ramifications.

• 3:43Glynn Washington?

  Oh, I love potato salad. I think I'm gonna get some of this potato salad over here, too. One auntie smiles, one frowns. Two pieces of fried chicken, two ribs, two pieces of corn on the cob. If there's not two of something, I'm not getting any, no matter how good it looks. I sit down. Now, they're both glaring at me, and I'm nervous. I'm sweating because any expression on my face, whatever it is, will be seen as picking sides. Whatever I do, I cannot, I must not, I shall not pick a side.

• 4:20Glynn Washington?

  I'm a smart cousin's wait. Until someone who is not part of the family arrives invited for this very purpose. Christie, beautiful Christie.

• 4:32Glynn Washington?

  Then everyone gets in line. Behind her.

• 4:38Glynn Washington?

  Today we proudly present the higher G U N. My name is from Washington. And today you've got to pick a side. When you're listening.

• 4:58Glynn Washington?

  Now. We begin. The story about taking sides. Story about gangs, about the law. And about a rapper who gets caught in between. And sister of listeners should note. This episode does contain some offensive language and drug references. And understand this as well. Right now, there's historic truths between the northern and southern California gangs mentioned in this piece. But we're going back to a time before that. To a time when Tupac still spit beats and Joe Camel was king. Snap Judgment producer John Facio brings us the story. Snap Judgment.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Tell me about your name. When did you settle on the name?

• 5:43Speaker 04

  That that's funny.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  After I finished eighth grade, my mom took me to the bike shop and said, get anyone you want. G T, who was a huge maker of BMX bikes, came out with a bike called a Dino. And I picked a chrome Dino.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  That bike was like connected to me. Everyone would call me Dino Dave. So it wasn't this elaborate gangster name or anything like that. It was just kind of a childhood name that carried on. And I just added the Sir Sir Dino to it because at that time, every rapper was MC, MC Hammer, MC Shy D, MC. I said, I want to use something different. My name is David Rocha. Many people know me as Sardino.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Back in the 90s, Sardino looked like he walked off the pages of Source Magazine. Crisp Dicky shirt, creased khakis, snapback black hat, and dark shades.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  He was trying to look the part of a Chicano Eazy-E.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  That was my main thing, was to become notorious.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  But growing up, he was just one of thousands of young men in California who identified as Norteño, or northerner.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  As a Norteño, it was really just representing Northern California. It was about keeping outsiders outside of our neighborhood. Simple as that.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  He got in fights and was expelled from high school. He lost friends to gun violence.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  So there's a lot of frustration, and I used to write poems about it, just kind of vent.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  A DJ friend got him to turn his poems into lyrics.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  I didn't know how to stay on time. I started rapping in my house and didn't share it with anyone for about a year.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  He worked at it and learned how to make beats. He produced a demo, then pounded the pavement to book performances at lowrider car shows.

• 8:07Speaker 04

  There was guys that could outrap me in a garage party, but, man, my albums, I put my heart and soul into those lyrics.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  He wrote songs about things he knew.

• 8:28Speaker 04

  There's this thing called studio gangster. Oh, that guy's a studio gangster. Meaning, they don't really do the stuff they're rapping about.

• 8:38Speaker 04

  Nobody gave me that memo because I was rapping about the stuff I was doing. Because I was a drug dealer, I was a gang member.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  I really did carry a gun at all times. I really did sell methamphetamines. I'd buy them pounds at a time. Thank God, I never killed anyone, but sometimes I thought I was going to.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  By his third year in, Serdino was right on the verge of making all his dreams come true.

• 9:07Speaker 04

  I shared a stage with Too Short, E40 and the Click, Cypress Hill, Ice Cube.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  When he made the album that ruined everything.

• 9:21Speaker 03

  It all started at this taco truck.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  What do you usually get when you come here?

• 9:32Speaker 04

  Uh, burrito, carne asada with cheese, crema, and cilantro.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  Jessica's Taco Truck sits by train tracks in downtown Modesto, one of the many small cities that dot the dry, dusty San Joaquin Valley. In 1997, Serdino went to Jessica's to meet someone.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  I just parked, and he was here, you know, with his cousin. It was Robert Grattan.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  Robert Grattan, AKA Guero. Nicknamed for his light skin, covered in tattoos, he had recently gotten out of prison.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  Guero was a small guy, almost petite. Obviously, he had been doing time, so he didn't look weak, you know? He had a air of authority about him, and you automatically respected him.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Grattan had reached out with an opportunity. He was a businessman who'd made some money turning used cars into lowriders, and he wanted to fund the next album by Serdino and his group, Darkroom Familia. He offered to split the profits 50/50, which sounded pretty good to them.

• 10:44Speaker 04

  We were broke, couldn't hold jobs or wouldn't hold jobs. Maybe we were selling weed or whatever, so we thought that was big time.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  As notorious as he wanted to be, the truth was, Sardino was 25. He was bouncing between his parents and a friend's trailer, juggling his rap career and trying to raise a one-year-old.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  I was a dad with a daughter that needed diapers, needed food, and needed things, you know? And times are hard.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  He needed the money, but there was a catch.

• 11:13Speaker 04

  He goes, "Well, there's one specific thing I want, though." I said, "What?" He goes, "I want it to be a North Daniel CD."

• 11:23Speaker 04

  And I kind of hesitated. I was a Northerner. So I'm like, "Well, I really was representing Norteños and Norte." I wear red. I wear red bandanas or have red shirts.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Soreños are Southerners, the sworn enemies of Norteños, who wore blue bandanas and blue shirts, were moving up north from Los Angeles and clashing with Norteños.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  But Norteños were also busy fighting amongst themselves. At Jessica's Taco Truck, Robert Grattan told Sardino he had a plan to put a stop to that.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  You know, we were killing each other. You know, everywhere we go here in Modesto, Stockton, Merced, Salinas, the Bay Area, we're killing each other. And we got to put a CD together to unify the homeboys.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  The plan was to make an album that would unite north against south and serve as a Norteño rallying cry.

• 12:30Speaker 04

  Well, the hesitation was, obviously, being a rapper, I wanted a nationwide audience, which included Los Angeles. And I knew by doing that album, I could possibly be cutting a huge portion of future success in that area. So my hesitancy was, is this going to interfere with those plans? And I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't. I thought it would just be a local thing. It's not going to hurt to do this little local CD.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Fifteen minutes away from Jessica's taco truck.

• 13:05Speaker 04

  It could have been that one. I think it's this one.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  In a beautifully landscaped apartment complex, past tennis courts and swimming pools.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  We recorded the entire album right here.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  In Robert Grattan's apartment.

• 13:17Speaker 04

  I remember pulling up here the first time, and it was a lowrider, it was an Impala, and on his plates, it said "North Daniel." His license plate, not his frame, his actual plate. He was very flamboyant in his North Danielisms.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Recording would start around 7:00 PM and go till the sun came up.

• 13:41Speaker 04

  Recording song after song, or producing, or recording, or both. Letting the beat play for an hour while the artists that were gonna be on that song literally sat on the couch writing lyrics. "Let me know when you're ready." I'd go get Jack in the Box, come back. "You guys ready?" "Yeah, alright, who's first?"

• 13:59Speaker 04

  I'd bring in like a red light, so it'd kinda set the mood for the artist.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  I know you didn't smoke or drink, but was like, all that stuff kinda going on around you all the time?

• 14:08Speaker 04

  Constant weed smoke, constant alcohol, a lot of meth, you know, and everybody's just kinda joking and laughing until I hit record. You know, then everybody's quiet and they let the guy rap. Then I'd listen back to it, and I'd say, "Okay, we gotta redo this, or redo that," or I'd say, "It's good," then it'd get loud again.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  As they laid down their verses, Serdino and his crew focused on giving Grattan exactly what he'd asked for.

• 14:40Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, we all knew what a northern album meant. It means we were gonna unite ourselves by uniting ourselves against a common enemy, which is anybody from Southern California.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  He called southerners scraps and sewer rats on songs like "You Got's to Kill."

• 15:11Speaker 03

  The album was called G-U-N.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  Subtitle, "XIV Till Eternity." And then the "XIV," the 14, what was that about?

• 15:22Speaker 04

  It's the 14th letter, which is the letter "N" for "North." It's real simple, yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  The only thing Grattan insisted on doing himself was the album's intro.

• 15:33Speaker 05

  First and foremost, no matter where you are, may that be on the calle or in the pinta.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  He said, "I just want to say this. Those that know will know what I'm talking about," is what he said. And I said, "Okay, I'll just record it," you know?

• 15:47Speaker 05

  The primary purpose and goal of this album is to promote unity amongst each and every one of us as Norteño. This is a combined effort.

• 15:57Speaker 03

  The album took three months to record and produce.

• 16:01Speaker 04

  As an album, I felt GUN was rushed. It was raw, but it was meant to be raw.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  But when it was released, it was an immediate local hit.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  This album, everyone was playing it. It seemed like every car that would go by, you know, bumping their stereo systems, it was the same bassline. You know, the whole car would rattle.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  Grattan had guys selling the CDs out of the trunks of cars all over Northern California. It even made its way onto the shelves of local Sam Goody stores.

• 16:42Speaker 04

  A bunch of parents and teachers, and they went to the local Sam Goody there, and they were picketing.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  I knew that was going to generate notoriety, and I knew that that meant sales.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  The GUN album also inspired a wave of violence.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  Red on red crime came to a halt, but attacks against sureños ramped up.

• 17:10Speaker 04

  I've heard people say, "Sir Dino did more than all Northerners put together." I don't think I've felt any remorse.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Finally, he was notorious. All he cared about was the money and the attention. But with the spotlight came scrutiny from law enforcement.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  I would hear stuff, doing sweeps and they would go people's houses and they'd have the CD playing, drive bys being done and they'd see my CD.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  Cops in Northern California became very aware of who Sir Dino was. They started listening to his music. Meanwhile, the profits that Robert Grattan had promised failed to materialize.

• 17:58Speaker 04

  We printed a thousand and I'm like, okay, cool. We sell these fourteen dollars each. That's fourteen thousand dollars, so seven thousand to me. And then he calls me, he goes, hey, I need another thousand. Well, that means you sold the first thousand. No money. He goes, oh, no, no, no, I'm just using it because I gotta make more. I'll get you. So then the next thousand, then, hey, I need two thousand more. Can you call the manufacturer? Five, six thousand copies in, I'm racking this up in my head. I'm like, dude, you owe me forty, fifty grand by now.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Sir Dino felt personally betrayed. He and Grattan had become friends. Grattan took him shopping in his other car, a Corvette. Sir Dino even performed at his daughter's quinceañera.

• 18:46Speaker 04

  He was already talking about doing a second one.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  And I said, this guy is insane. You haven't paid me for the first one. It wasn't until months later, and I was getting actually angry and agitated at him, that I went to go talk to him.

• 19:16Glynn Washington?

  When we return, Sir Dino gets what's his. Snapchat.

• 19:28Glynn Washington?

  Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the hired G U N episode. Last we left Sir Dino, he was headed to a face-off with the man who funded his hit gangster rap album and kept all the profits. Snap Judgment.

• 19:44Speaker 03

  Sir Dino came to confront Grattan in broad daylight in the residential neighborhood where his girlfriend lived.

• 19:52Speaker 04

  So he said he was here, so I pull up at that light. I was coming this way, and I pull up right here. And I was angry. I came with the intentions of not leaving without my money.

• 20:05Speaker 04

  And he has the car on the lawn. It was an Impala, the one, the Norteno one he had with the Norteno plates. He has a car on the lawn, he's washing it, and he has his shirt off. I pulled up right here where we're standing, and I saw across his back "Nuestra Familia."

• 20:27Speaker 04

  Um, I had to take a pause. The very fact that he was so open about it scared me.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  "Nuestra Familia" is the name of an infamous prison gang run by men in solitary confinement at Pelican Bay State Prison, a supermax facility on the coast of Northern California. Grattan had the gang's name tattooed in large, black, cursive letters across his back for all to see.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  There's things that I grew up knowing. One is NF, they were nothing but killers or murderers. NF, you don't mix with them or play with them. You don't get yourself involved, or you'll never get out of that web. They're very secretive, and you will never know where they're at. It was almost like this urban legend that they're everywhere, and they can find you anywhere you go. The truth to that, I don't know, but that's what I was raised with. I calmed down. I did ask him. I didn't just, you know, keep going. I got off and had maybe a 10-minute conversation. I don't recall exactly what he said. It was probably the same rhetoric of, "Yeah, I'm gonna get your money, we're doing good, things are going great," that kind of same old thing.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  I was just nice about it and left, and that was the last time I ever saw him.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  Serdino walked away.

• 21:57Speaker 04

  I never stopped needing the money when I saw the tattoo on his back. But I had to weigh into account of what it is I was dealing with.

• 22:08Speaker 03

  The GUN album never really found an audience outside of Northern California. But it did rally Serdino's fanbase and the next few CDs he released would go nationwide.

• 22:18Speaker 04

  Miami, our records were there. Texas, our records were there. Arizona, New Mexico, you name it, Los Angeles. We were in every record store across the country.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Royalties started to trickle in. Small checks at first, then big ones.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Serdino bought a house and was finally living large. All thanks, in no small part, to the GUN album, his little local CD.

• 22:51Speaker 04

  I moved on. I'm making music. I'm traveling. And that was just like something I had did. I was releasing an album every 30 days, not solo. So I was constantly in the studio, all the time.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  But even while he was cutting records, he was still dealing drugs, which he then wrote about on songs like "I Got the Crank."

• 23:18Speaker 03

  At the peak of his career, he was caught with three ounces of meth and placed on house arrest.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Then, in late April 2001, two years after his last meeting with Robert Grattan, Serdino was called in to see his parole officer at a drab concrete building in downtown Stockton.

• 23:38Speaker 04

  I go in one morning, walk right in, and as I walk in, I'm surrounded by FBI.

• 23:46Speaker 04

  They had slacks and windbreakers with FBI in the back, I think in yellow or white. They looked like agents, you know, and they weren't disrespectful. They were very calm, but very authoritative. "We're the FBI and you're being charged under the RICO Act racketeering." I had no idea what they're talking about. "I think you got the wrong person."

• 24:13Speaker 03

  The RICO Act is a gangster's worst nightmare.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  Everyone knows that's like for like Italian mob stuff.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  It's a federal law that allows prosecutors to bring criminal charges against a criminal organization, like a prison gang.

• 24:33Speaker 04

  Like, "You have the wrong person. I have no idea what you're talking about." I kept saying that over and over. And they looked at me like I was ridiculous. They're like, "Oh, no, we know exactly who you are."

• 24:46Speaker 03

  Sir Dino was told the reason for his arrest had everything to do with the GUN album. He learned that Nuestra Familia had been behind the album all along. Robert Grattan, a captain in the gang, had hatched the plan with one of the five bosses in the mesa, the five men at the top of the Nuestra Familia pyramid. They'd used Sir Dino as a mouthpiece, a hired gun.

• 25:13Speaker 04

  I didn't ask where the money came from. Why am I being charged for something?

• 25:18Speaker 03

  As the FBI put the cuffs on him, Sir Dino started making excuses.

• 25:22Speaker 04

  If a drug dealer hires a landscaper to do their 10 acres, I'm not gonna say, "Well, where do you get the money from? I'm just gonna do the lawns as long as you pay the price." And that's what I was comparing myself to. I said, "You want a rapper? You want somebody to do this? I'm not gonna ask."

• 25:43Speaker 03

  He was arrested anyway.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  The feds believed Sir Dino was part of Nuestra Familia and knew the gang was funding his album.

• 25:52Speaker 04

  Because even the government understood that you didn't rub shoulders with these guys unless you were a part of them.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  The GUN album was a key piece of evidence against him, proof of a conspiracy.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  And he was the mastermind.

• 26:12Speaker 04

  Basically, that I released the GUN album and I used Nuestra money to front a record label to release GUN, to then make money to give back to MF. That's what I was being pulled into.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Sir Dino was taken to Sacramento County Jail.

• 26:31Speaker 04

  They weren't telling me anything. I'm like calling home, like, what's going on? And I'm sitting in my cell looking now and I see this kind of burly black dude walking around with Jordans. And I realize it's Suge Knight.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Suge Knight was also in Sacramento County Jail in April 2001. Any other time, an audience with the head of Death Row Records would have been a dream for Sir Dino. But he was still confused and trying to figure out how he got there.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  He just kind of nods his head. I was like, what's up?

• 27:05Speaker 03

  Did you talk to him at all?

• 27:06Speaker 04

  No, we just muttered.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  But Sir Dino wasn't there long when two guys from Nuestra Familia came looking for him.

• 27:17Speaker 04

  One of them was stocky, like a prison build, big mustache, tattoo on his face. The other guy, same thing, big mustache, but a lighter build. These guys confronted me and cornered me.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Like Sir Dino, they'd also just been arrested by the FBI on RICO charges. They asked him who he was.

• 27:37Speaker 04

  I said, David Rocha.

• 27:40Speaker 04

  What do you go by? Dino. They look at each other, they go off, had a little meeting, little talk, and they come back and they say, where's our money at? What money? Now I'm really confused. What money? Oh, you don't know what money? The G O N money. And the light went on and I said, this guy, this guy sold me down the river.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Sir Dino realized Grattan, who had used him and lied to him about the source of the money behind his album, had also kept the profits of the G O N album that he was supposed to turn over to his gang. What was he telling the N F about you?

• 28:16Speaker 04

  That I was keeping all the money for the album, that I was dodging him, ditching him, and spending the money.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  That money was what these two guys from nuestra familia were after.

• 28:28Speaker 04

  I realized I could die. And I had to think fast, I had to think real fast. And I quickly said, where's my money at? I had to turn it around because I couldn't show fear. I was scared out of my mind, but I couldn't show that.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  And then Sir Dino made another connection. He and these two nuestra familia guys had just been arrested. And there was only one person linking them. Grattan.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  And I had to say this to save my life. I said this, I said, listen, why is that person not here? Why is the only thing that ties me to you is that person? Why is he not here? And they went to the other side of the cell to talk. And then they came back and said, you know what? We're going to pause this until we figure out what's going on.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  What was going on was this. Robert Grattan had turned his back on nuestra familia. He'd become an FBI informant. In fact, he was the star witness of Operation Black Widow, a three-year federal investigation into nuestra familia launched by none other than Robert Mueller, departing U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California. Twenty-one people were arrested at the same time as Sir Dino. Grattan had turned over 350 names.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  Grattan had gotten arrested months prior, gave up the whole goods on his organization that he belonged to. And when told about the G U N album blamed the whole thing on me. I don't know what the guy did. He was just trying to get out of what his situation. I don't know. You know, I can't speak for him. I can only speak for myself. I had no ties to Pelican Bay. I had no ties to any of that stuff.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  Serdino was pulled from his cell and taken in chains to a marble courtroom in San Francisco, where the charges were read as his parents and brothers watched from the gallery.

• 30:35Speaker 04

  I think I was just in shock, to be honest with you. I just kept looking out to my family. My family looked just as confused as I was. It was a big room, very hollow sounding, very surreal feeling. There was 21 of us and all of us were lined up next to the judge, you know, on the side.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Shackled next to Serdino on metal bleachers in orange jumpsuits sat his co-defendants, some of them already serving life sentences in solitary confinement. They ruled nuestra familia from the small, bare, windowless rooms in the Pelican Bay Zoo.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  Man, being a street gang banger, even a meth dealer was nothing compared to this. You're kind of a street hood guy and all of a sudden you're being taken to court and there's Hitler and there's Saddam and there's Bin Laden.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  The judge started to read off the charges. Because of the way the RICO Act works, Serdino was being tried for all the crimes of nuestra familia, not just the G U N album.

• 31:40Speaker 04

  They do RICO charges when they want to hit a whole organization. So if one person did a murder, one person did a bank robbery, one person did this, they get all of you for all of those charges, my understanding. So when I go to be formally charged and they're saying murders and threatening DAs, armored car vehicle robbery, all of this stuff, some of them were done in years when I was 10. So I'm like, are you kidding me? You're going to charge me with this stuff? I was a kid.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  Thanks to the RICO Act, he was facing life in prison.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  I'm not pleading to anything. Like, I'm a rapper. Like, what am I doing here? I will fight this all the way to the end because this is crazy.

• 32:31Glynn Washington?

  When we return, Sir Dino takes on the feds and an angry prison gang. On Snap Judgment, the Hired G U N episode continues. Stay tuned.

• 32:50Glynn Washington?

  Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the Hired G U N episode. Sir Dino has just learned that he's facing a life sentence for making a gangster rap album funded by a prison gang. A prison gang that wants him dead. Snap Judgment.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  Sir Dino and his co-defendants were taken back to their cells.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Anyone associated with Operation Black Widow was considered a threat. So we were all put in solitary. Actually, they cleared an entire pod just for us.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  The men in Sir Dino's pod had figured out long ago how to work around being held in an eight by 10 foot cell for 22 and a half hours a day. Some of them had lived like this for decades. All they had was time.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Inside, they taught themselves Nahawattle, the ancient Aztec language, which they spoke amongst each other so anyone listening wouldn't be able to interpret. They sent messages called "wila's", written in the ancient language in microscopic script on tiny scraps of paper smuggled in clothing lining and body cavities. That's how they gave their orders. They were, in some ways, the most powerful men in Northern California state prisons. Men who could have Sir Dino stabbed, strangled, or set on fire, even if he never left his cell.

• 34:13Speaker 04

  You know, some of the guys are people I had heard of. All this time, I thought I was this gangster, you know what I mean? Because I was a northerner and this and that. As deep as I thought I was, it wasn't until then I realized how naive I was.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  And he was scared. He didn't know if the two guys from nuestra familia had believed him when he said he'd never seen any money from the GUN album. Then, that first night, he was woken up at 1 o'clock in the morning.

• 34:40Speaker 04

  And an officer comes and gives me a package. And I'm just like, dude, this is, it felt like a Twilight Zone. I didn't know what was going on.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  One of the correctional officers was working for nuestra familia, and they'd sent Sir Dino a gift basket.

• 34:54Speaker 04

  Saying, oh, this is from the fellas. It was coffee and a magazine and some soups and things like that.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  It was a peace offering. The next day, he was lying on his bunk when he heard someone's knuckles rap on the glass windowpane in his door.

• 35:11Speaker 04

  There was a guy, the guy who was next to me, and he goes, hey, he goes, you all right? What's your name? I said, David Roche. He goes, oh, you're the Dino guy? I said, Dino. And he goes, uh, yeah, they called me so-and-so. And I think my face went blank because I'd heard so many stories about him.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  This was a nuestra familia boss who'd ordered dozens of murders.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  And he goes, you heard of me? I said, yeah, I know who you are. He goes, oh, if you need anything, man, I'm here. Goes back in the cell.

• 35:42Speaker 03

  The air was cleared with nuestra familia, but in court, Sir Dino had given prosecutors plenty of evidence for their case. They played Robert Grattan's intro to the GUN album, where he shouted out those in the pintas, prisons.

• 35:56Speaker 05

  No matter where you are, may that be on the calle or in the pintas.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  They showed the album's cover, a photo of Sir Dino and his friends wearing red and throwing gang signs in the park.

• 36:09Speaker 04

  And my lawyer was like, and which one of those things is illegal? They brought up, for instance, myself having guns in album covers. I'm like, well, you know, Terminator has a gun on his movie cover. What's the difference?

• 36:26Speaker 03

  The government relied heavily on the testimony of Robert Grattan, who said Sir Dino was the one behind GUN.

• 36:33Speaker 04

  This was his album. This was his thing. I didn't ask where the money came from. I saw it as contracted work. What was I guilty of? You know, to this day, I still hold to that because... What was I guilty of?

• 36:49Speaker 03

  Well, okay, but, but you were guilty of creating something that called for violence, right? And that call was answered.

• 36:59Speaker 04

  Is there a charge for that?

• 37:01Speaker 03

  There was. Serdino was on the hook for a single count of Rico conspiracy. But the government first had to prove Serdino was a part of nuestra familia. Nowhere on the GUN album do the words nuestra familia appear. Still, the government argued the connection was clear. When you were fighting the case, did you still believe in the Norteño cause?

• 37:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 37:29Speaker 04

  The whole time I was fighting this case, Operation Black Widow, I still considered myself a northern. I didn't hide it. I even said it in court.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  This was significant. The government cited Serdino's self-identification as a Norteño for evidence. They believed Norteños and nuestra familia were inextricably linked.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  To the prosecutor, to them, they're like, look, he's guilty. He's associated with nuestra familia. And I said, no, I'm not.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  Norteños and nuestra familia are linked. That's true. In state prison, Norteños are expected to pay tribute to nuestra familia, and they often work together. But membership in one does not necessarily confer membership in the other. Norteño is a much looser designation, applied to thousands of guys in dozens of cliques disorganized throughout the state.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  The million-dollar question is, did you really not know that Wetto was in nuestra and that the money for the GUN album was coming from nuestra?

• 38:35Speaker 04

  I really didn't know it. I really didn't. I had no idea I would ever talk to someone in my life that was that high up in the hierarchy of NF. You gotta understand...

• 38:49Speaker 04

  To me, these guys were mystical. These guys were untouchable. And for somebody to come and say, "I am directly working with the three top generals of NF," that was beyond my comprehension.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Nuestra Familia has a written constitution, an elaborate hierarchy, and a mandatory workout regimen. There are rules for getting in.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  I was not involved in any criminal enterprise of prison. I had never been to prison at that time. And to be in that gang, you had to have been in prison. They actually brought a gang expert in to prove me wrong. And my lawyer asked a question. "Can somebody be a Northerner and not be tied to the NF?" And their gang expert said, "Yes."

• 39:41Speaker 03

  As the government tried to save their case against him, Serdino spent his days and nights in solitary. His lawyer fought to get him out on bond. One morning, he was about to go before the judge when he heard a voice coming out of the corner of his cell.

• 39:56Speaker 04

  There was a vent where you could actually talk to the person next to you.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  The voice in the vent belonged to his neighbor, the Nuestra Familia boss who'd greeted him when he first got there. He was one of five members of the Mesa. And over four weeks, Serdino got to know him.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  I was his only neighbor because on the other side of his cell was the wall. So I was the only one he could really talk to while he was in his cell. So I'd stand on my toilet and have conversations with him every single day, multiple times a day, talk about the outside. He'd been locked up, I believe, since he was 18. He'd committed a murder. He was now in his, maybe at that time, late 40s. He goes, "Hey, David." He goes, "You're gonna go to court again?" I said, "Yeah, I'm trying to get out, man. Trying to get out." And he goes, "They're gonna let you out. They know you've got nothing to do with this." He goes, "I want to tell you something, man. I want you to do me a favor." "Oh, great." You know what? You know? And I was like, "Yeah?" He goes, "Listen."

• 40:57Speaker 04

  He goes, "Listen to me good." He goes, "You're gonna get out of this. I want you to know, I will never get out."

• 41:06Speaker 04

  I will never know what it's like to hold the newborn baby. Never know what it's like to sit in a park and picnic with my family. I will never know that, David. And this is the guy everybody feared. He goes, "So this is my favor I ask of you. Anytime you want to do something really stupid out there, remember me that I'll never get out of this place."

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Did you feel like a little boy talking to him or something?

• 41:31Speaker 04

  I did. I did. You know, but I, I believe that he was really, truly sharing his heart. And that affected me.

• 41:41Speaker 04

  They were killers. They were murderers and maybe he was too, you know, but there was a hu- human side to him. And here he is jealous of me because I actually have a chance at life. And you know, and it just, it messed me up. You know, it really did.

• 42:04Speaker 04

  This is not the life I want. Like, I have a daughter. I have a kid coming. This is not what I want.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  Three days later, Serdino was released. His case never went to trial. He took a deal, pled guilty to a lower charge, which meant just a year of probation.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Operation Black Widow, one of the largest gang investigations in history, resulted in the convictions of 75 Nuestra Familia associates and dozens of defections. The five members of the Mesa were moved from Pelican Bay to federal prison in Colorado. But despite protests from the governor, they were all put in the same prison.

• 43:01Speaker 05

  I was giving specific orders to organize all the different little cities in Northern California.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Robert Grattan, AKA Guero, published a book about his experience at the center of the case and was interviewed on 60 Minutes, where he took full credit for the GUN album.

• 43:19Speaker 05

  So I put together a gangster rap CD to reach the youth and let them know that the Nuestra Familia was still in charge.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  He entered witness protection and eventually died at age 44 in a car accident. Sir Dino was able to walk out of the courthouse, a free man, but not a changed one.

• 43:43Speaker 04

  I didn't have any job skills. All I knew was to rap and sell drugs, and I didn't know how to get out.

• 43:48Speaker 03

  His rap profile had been definitively boosted by the RICO charge. He was more notorious now than he'd ever dreamed.

• 43:55Speaker 04

  If you're a rapper, a gangster rapper with RICO charges, that's like the perfect thing you could ask for. Rappers will dream about that stuff, you know? Everyone wants to be 50 Cent, be shot nine times and survive. My sales rocketed. I felt like I had to now be Sir Dino.

• 44:15Speaker 03

  He quickly dropped a track to capitalize on the infamy.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  The song's called "Rico."

• 44:30Speaker 03

  This did not sit well with law enforcement. While Sir Dino was still on federal bond, the police dispatched an informant. He was caught on tape selling a small amount of meth and sentenced to 13 years in prison.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Because of his history with Nuestro Familia and the Black Widow case, Sir Dino was put in solitary confinement, again.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Except this time, the light switch was broken.

• 44:59Speaker 04

  So it was like bright, like a hospital in my room. And it's weird because you would think like, well, big deal. That's like, it messes with you. Like, they don't give you a thick blanket, so it's not like I could cover my eyes with anything. They give you a sheet, like a bed sheet. And I think a towel, so you use your towel for your pillow. So I was just in complete, bright, white light. And that's a torture unto itself.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  And there's this like scratched metal that's supposed to be your mirror, and you realize you actually have to look at who you really are. And most of us probably won't like what we see, and I don't mean physically. I don't mean attractiveness. I mean just who you see in your eyes when you look in the mirror, away from the noise of life.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  What did you see?

• 45:58Speaker 04

  I saw a man that blamed everyone else instead of blaming me. I am a bad person. I'm a criminal. And I do belong here. I was involved in the life and the repercussions of that life is exactly what happens.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  He no longer had the shades or gold chain or crease khakis. After a decade of wearing red and claiming Nortenyo, he was done, finally broken.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  He stopped going by Dino and when members of his rap group came to visit him in prison, he told them he was out.

• 46:43Speaker 04

  You know, keep the royalties, whatever. I don't care. I don't want that money. I want that stuff to die.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  He was still recognized from time to time by guys inside.

• 46:52Speaker 04

  A lot of times when somebody would compliment me, I'd say, "Thanks." You know, I'd be like, "Thanks, man. I put my heart and soul in my music."

• 47:01Speaker 03

  David Rocha became a model prisoner. His sentence was reduced to six years and for the last two, he was transferred to a federal prison camp.

• 47:10Speaker 04

  Federal prison camp has no barbed wire. You could escape. You could walk off if you wanted to.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  In the housing unit, a young guy came up to him.

• 47:19Speaker 04

  And said, "I know who you are. I know who you are. You're Dino." And he was really excited, you know, and he had this huge smile. I said, "Yeah, but that's not me anymore." And he goes, "Yeah, but you're Dino." And he was like starstruck.

• 47:34Speaker 04

  And he says, "My brother, my brother idolized you." And I was like, "Oh, that's cool. That's cool." You know, "Does he come visit? Maybe I can meet him." And he goes, "Well, no. Yeah, I was washing his car with them. He had a lowrider. He had to go to the store real quick and he never came back. He got murdered." Some Southsliders killed him. I was like, "Man, I'm sorry." He goes, "All he wanted to do was be like you."

• 48:05Speaker 04

  And I don't know what to say.

• 48:08Speaker 04

  How does that register in your brain that somebody is no longer here because they want it to be what you described in music? Like, that sucks.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  I don't know how to come to terms with that. You know, and I don't think I ever will. I don't think I ever should.

• 48:37Glynn Washington?

  David Rocha left prison in June of 2009, became a pastor and started a church in Modesto. It's called The House of Rest, just five minutes away from Jessica's Taco Truck. And David is still making music. Ever since he got out under his own name, the beats are the same, but the lyrics are a little bit different.

• 49:07Glynn Washington?

  Learn more about what David is up to at houseofrestchurch.com and get his memoir, Lost in the Storm, now available as an audiobook. Thank you, David, for sharing your story with us. And thanks to Shan Rocha as well, Justin Burton, and Julia Reynolds. One last shout out to Jessica's Taco Truck, because if you're ever in downtown Modesto, in need of deliciousness at unbelievable prices, look no further than Jessica's Taco Truck. This is an unpaid plug. The story featured the music of David Rocha and an original score by Renzo Gorio. It was produced by John Faseal.

• 49:46Glynn Washington?

  See, it happened. That was just one Snap Judgment Magic Carpet Ride. If you need more, more places, more people, more stories, more love, more joy, subscribe to the amazing Snap Judgment Podcast. Snap was brought to you by the team that all has individual projects, kind of like the Wu-Tang Clan, except for the uber producer, Mr. Mark Ristich. He is not allowed to leave the building. Nancy Lopez, Pat Masidi Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Gorio, Shayna Shealy, Taylor Decot, Flo Wiley, John Faseal, Lisa Dodge, Regina Barriaco, Davy Kim, Bo Walls, and David Exman.

• 50:26Glynn Washington?

  Well, this is not the news. In a way, this is news. In fact, a real-life music executive could offer you money to produce an album with a fair, equitable contract that gives you real ownership stake in the final product and profit sharing. It's... Nah. Don't be silly. That could never happen. And you would still, STILL, not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is... P-R-X.