Pod Insights SNAFU with Ed Helms S3E5: Double Barrel About this episode Out west, Prohibition agents take the gunslingers' path to enforcement. When their methods backfire, it stains Mabel Walker Willebrandt's Dry cause, while Formula 6 lurks in the shadows.
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Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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0:33 Speaker 02 Hey there, it's your host, Ed Helms here. Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I wanted to remind you that my brand new book is coming out on April 29th. It's called Snafu: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw-Ups. And you can preorder it right now at snafu-book.com. Trust me, if you like this show, you're gonna love this book. It's got all the wild disasters, spectacular faceplants we just couldn't squeeze into this podcast. And here's the kicker, I am also going on tour to celebrate. That's right, I'm coming to New York, DC, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago, San Francisco, and my hometown, Los Angeles.
1:15 Speaker 02 So if you've ever wanted to see me stumble through a live Q&A or dramatically read about a kitty cat getting turned into a CIA operative, now's your chance. Again, head to snafu-book.com to preorder the book and check out all the tour details and dates, or just click the link in the show notes, that'll work too. Okay, that's it, on with the chaos. This is Snafu, Season 3, Formula 6.
1:44 Speaker 02 Last time on Snafu. Mabel Walker Willebrandt's wet opponents were scary powerful, especially in court.
1:53 Speaker 03 George Ramis, one of the craziest stories you hear about, like incredibly successful defense attorney becomes like the biggest bootlegger ever.
2:01 Speaker 02 But even when Mabel won her cases, it felt like she was always just one step behind the sprawling bootleg business.
2:09 Speaker 04 She didn't have much in the way of financial support. And one of the things that was indicative of the attitude of the Drys is that they passed these laws but gave no money for enforcement.
2:19 Speaker 02 Playing by the rules just couldn't hold back the tide of liquor washing over America.
2:25 Speaker 04 The fact that there were only 2,600 prohibition agents covering the entire Canadian border, the Mexican border, and both coasts, it's ridiculous.
2:39 Speaker 02 There's a storm rolling in over the little town of Homer, Nebraska. In the creek bottoms and riverbeds that crisscross the eastern border of the state, the water starts to rise. And it all runs downhill, towards Homer. It's 1919, and one of Homer's newest residents, a man named Richard Hart, is riding home with some neighbors. He didn't grow up in Nebraska. He was the kind of kid who fell in love with the Wild West. When he was a teenager, he ran off to be a cowboy. A bit of a thrill seeker, his journey took him from the ranch, to the circus, to the life of a soldier in the Great War.
3:20 Speaker 02 When he came back from the war, he took a train west, and Homer is where he landed. A few of his new German-American neighbors, the Winch family, opened their doors to him. Their car doors, at least. They're giving him a lift. He's crammed in the car with Mama Winch and a few of her kids, including the oldest daughter, 20-year-old Kathleen. They're on the road, winding along the Missouri River, when the oncoming storm overtakes them.
3:49 Speaker 05 Homer is very close to the Missouri River. When Richard arrived, there was a flood.
3:54 Speaker 02 This is Richard's great-grandson, Corey Hart. And no, it's not the 80s rock star Corey Hart, who wears sunglasses at night, much to the disappointment of my inner 10-year-old. So families in Homer, Nebraska, know all too well how the area is prone to flooding. And this one is really bad. Water rises up and crashes into the little town. Dozens of houses are destroyed, and some are even completely washed away.
4:25 Speaker 02 For Richard and the Winch family in the car, the situation gets dire.
4:30 Speaker 05 What they didn't realize is that the car that they ran was also beginning to be overtaken by that flood.
4:36 Speaker 02 The storm pounds on the hood of the car, but through the rain, they see a girl walking on the side of the road. They pull over to let her in and tell her it's not safe outside.
4:50 Speaker 02 But before they can get the car moving again, they're caught in a surge of water. It rises up under them, lifting the car and sweeping the whole thing into the current. The little girl is terrified, and in a moment of panic, she jumps out of the car and she's instantly flushed downstream.
5:07 Speaker 05 So Richard saw what was happening and jumped in to save the girl.
5:12 Speaker 02 He swims hard and stays in control despite the raging flood around him. When he catches up to her, he finds she's caught on a tangle of barbed wire fence invisible under the murky brown surface. Working quickly, Richard untangles her and swims on. He drags her to the far bank, then he turns back to the river.
5:30 Speaker 05 Kathleen Winch was in the vehicle that was floating away, but Richard and another individual in Homer were able to jump in and pull that car to safety.
5:40 Speaker 02 Richard bites the river yet again to save Kathleen's life and drag the Winch family car back to dry land. Yes, you heard that right. He pulls a car from a raging flood. One of those superhuman adrenaline rushes, I guess.
5:56 Speaker 05 So it was his bravery that really caught the eye of Kathleen and said that this is the guy that I want to be with.
6:04 Speaker 02 Maybe a little bit of transference going on here, but I'm kind of falling in love with this guy right now. I mean, who wouldn't? As the flood cleared and the story spread, the town of Homer decided Richard Hart was just the kind of hero they needed. He may have still been an outsider, but they made this rugged 20-something their town marshal.
6:28 Speaker 02 And just in the nick of time, because there was another flood coming. The flood of illegal liquor that Alexander Gettler warned about. It wasn't just in the big cities like New York, it was coast to coast. When Mabel Walker Willebrandt and the Bureau boys looked west for agents to fight the alcohol flood in Nebraska, Richard volunteered. As a lawman, he was known for toting not one, but two guns, which gave him the Wild West nickname of every little cowpoke's dreams: Richard Two-Gun Heart. He became a soldier in the Dry Army. As the leaders of the Dry Cause grew more and more desperate to fight the influx of booze,
7:11 Speaker 02 it would put Richard shoulder to shoulder with some of the most vicious forces in America. I'm Ed Helms and this is Snafu, a show about history's greatest screw-ups. This is season three, the story of Formula Six. How prohibitions wore on alcohol went so off the rails, the government wound up poisoning its own people. Today, we're leaving Norris and Gettler in New York, and James Duran and Mabel Walker Willibrant in DC, and we're taking a trip out west to see how things are going with
7:56 Speaker 02 prohibition agents far afield. A place where classic yahoo gunslinging methods were used, methods that would shock the public, and eventually stain the Dry Cause. So this Two-Gun nickname. In the years before World War I, Richard had ridden and ranched across the West. His childhood dream was to be a cowboy, and gosh darn it, he pulled it off. He crisscrossed the American plains on cattle drives, and even in traveling circuses. He was used to long, lonely days on horseback, broken up by shows where his trick shooting
8:39 Speaker 02 and skills as a wrestler brought cheering crowds to their feet.
8:46 Speaker 02 As his great grandson Cory says, "A little of the circus showman stuck with him throughout his life. He even bought himself two pearl handled Colt 45s."
8:57 Speaker 05 He loved to show off. And so, if he could have the opportunity to show off his sharp shooting skills, he would. There are rumors that he would shoot apples off the top of people's heads. If you think of Richard Hart, it's a thing. It's always two guns. It's two guns, you know? And so, why are you not gonna call someone like that Two Gun Hart? I mean, it just fits.
9:18 Speaker 02 Richard Two Gun Hart. It's pretty good, you gotta admit. I've been workshopping Eddie nearsighted helms for a while, but the focus group around my kitchen table is not a fan for some reason. Richard, though, was living out his childhood dream, the hero of the story he'd always imagined. When World War I took Richard, George Cassidy, and a couple of million others over to France, the Great War made Richard an honest-to-goodness soldier. But afterwards...
9:48 Speaker 05 As he's heading out west, he just gets off on this stop in Nebraska and sees this town, Homer, and knew this was a point far enough west where that lifestyle still existed. So he could continue this mission in his life to be a cowboy.
10:07 Speaker 02 Now, by this point, there weren't a ton of old west cowboys still bopping around out there. Wild Bill, Buffalo Bill, all the old Bills, that's an older generation. It's the stories that kept them alive. You know the wave of legacy sequels to classic 90's flicks, Twister, Terminator, Jurassic Park, Dumanji? It was kinda like that. Richard loved the Wild West shows when he was a kid, and he was determined to live out the sequel. Western Lawman, still shootin'.
10:38 Speaker 02 When national prohibition came to Nebraska, Town Marshal Richard "Two Gun" Hart had his chance.
10:45 Speaker 05 Governor recognized the fact that if we're going to have prohibition agents, we need people that are fearless. And Richard Hart was somebody who fit that to a T.
10:54 Speaker 02 Toting a gun into the hills to face down enemies of the law, it was a dream come true for Richard. But, once he had his prohibition badge pinned to his chest, he found he was facing a lot worse than circus clowns.
11:07 Speaker 05 I believe it was around 1920. And it was a really, really bad rainstorm.
11:13 Speaker 02 Damn, Mother Nature's got it out for this guy, huh? In any case, Richard hits the highway with a prisoner in tow, a man he had scooped up in a recent raid on a moonshine still. He's trying to take the man to Lincoln, Nebraska, but...
11:27 Speaker 05 He got north and south messed up. So instead of going back to take this criminal in, he ended up going, I believe, towards the South Dakota border.
11:34 Speaker 02 Now, when he pulled into the little town of Spencer, Richard could've, you know, realized he went the wrong way and turned around. But not our Two Gun. He was like double or nothing. So he started asking around for some white mule. The locals, proud of the kick in their neighborhood moonshine, knew exactly what he meant and helpfully pointed him to the best distillery in town. When the owner offered him a drink, Richard arrested him. Then he went back and also arrested the guy who gave him directions. Maybe a little too thorough for a spur of the moment operation, but that's just me. Two Gun, he was always in for double or nothing. So Richard crams all three guys in his car
12:18 Speaker 02 and hauls them off to the local jail. But when he gets there...
12:22 Speaker 05 Found out that they wouldn't book either of them.
12:25 Speaker 02 And that's because the guy he had just arrested for trying to sell him alcohol?
12:29 Speaker 05 Yeah, one of them's a town marshal.
12:31 Speaker 02 He's the town marshal of Spencer, the tiny town they're in. So instead of accepting his arrest, this Spencer marshal and another officer played a little Uno reverse card and put Richard under arrest for disturbing the peace. They squared off and tried to shout each other down. You're under arrest. No, you're under arrest. Oh, you. No you. No you. No you. You. You. And the guy who had the best seat in the house? The original prisoner Richard had dragged along for the ride. Apparently, that guy found the entire thing hilarious.
13:11 Speaker 05 It was really discouraging for him. It was the pinnacle of him understanding how much corruption there was. This is not my law. And that was the excuse that a lot of people used.
13:22 Speaker 02 But like Mabel, Richard had decided that prohibition was his law. It was in the Constitution now, which meant Two Gun was free to have a rootin', tootin' time smacking down all manner of miscreants, scofflaws, and ne'er do wells.
13:40 Speaker 02 Just because a flood of Americans had decided to break the law was no reason to hold back on enforcing it. Richard had beaten floods before, but if there was one burr under Two Gun's saddle, it was Kathleen's family, his in-laws. You see, the Winches owned a grocery store, and they also did a little brewing on the side. Or, you know, maybe kind of a lot. There were good times, but then there were times when the alcohol just kind of took over. That's Cory's dad, Jeff, Richard's grandson. When one of Kathleen's brother had too much alcohol, it was my Uncle Harold. He would drink more than he should have all the time. When the Winches got to drinking, I could just see Richard pulling his hat down
14:25 Speaker 02 over his eyes like, "Seriously? Right in front of me? Come on, you're putting me on the spot here." I mean, if you're pouring a beer under the prohibition agent's nose, that's gonna make Christmas a little tense. But Richard was doing his best to keep some tensel on the tenon balm, because there was one line he didn't cross. He never actually arrested the Winches for their home brewing. Always seems weird to me when people just roll with so much hypocrisy. But then again, it was his in-laws, and as much as we all want to arrest our in-laws, it's probably better we don't. But Richard justified it to himself. And besides, it's not like there was a shortage of cases for him to take on.
15:06 Speaker 02 And in 1923, he would take a case that would put Richard in over his head.
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15:45 Speaker 06 Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table.
16:30 Speaker 06 Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
16:47 Speaker 05 If he couldn't use his gun, he would use his fist to apprehend these criminals and bootleggers. That was something he really prided himself with. In this instance, it went wrong.
17:02 Speaker 02 It was October of 1923. Back in New York, Alexander Getler is starting to earn a reputation as a forensic Sherlock. He's just published a groundbreaking study on the deadly solvent benzene, which, to his horror, he's finding in dead bodies in his laboratory at Bellevue, though he's not yet sure why. Meanwhile, in DC, Babel Walker Willebrandt is just starting to unravel the epic corruption all around her at the Department of Justice. And back in the heartland, no pun intended, Richard Hart catches a break too. He gets a tip about a bootlegger smuggling liquor onto the Winnebago Reservation near Homer. He meets with some of the Winnebago men who are willing to help him stop the flow of liquor into their community.
17:46 Speaker 05 We selected two of them to go to kind of a bootleg operation and try to score some alcohol.
17:55 Speaker 02 The operation kicks off when Richard and his guys get the details of a midnight rendezvous between a rum runner and his local customers. They're going to intervene. Richard parks out of sight nearby while his comrades roll into the meetup posing his customers.
18:11 Speaker 05 The idea was that as soon as they would come out, he and another officer that was with him would then make the arrest.
18:19 Speaker 02 But the liquor crew gets suspicious. Something's a little off. They refuse to sell anything to Richard's accomplices, who come back to him empty-handed. There's nothing Richard can use to make an arrest. For someone else, that might be the end of it, a failed operation, but Richard isn't done. He wants to nab his bootlegger. He continues to lie in wait nearby, and sure enough, a couple of hours later, more cars pull up. This time, Richard doesn't try any tricks. He decides he's just gonna let the deal go down and then scoop up one of the customers to get his evidence. When the meetup is over, the cluster of cars splits up. Richard and his partner give chase.
19:02 Speaker 05 So they're chasing after what they think is the bootlegger vehicle.
19:07 Speaker 02 Richard's partner is driving. He pulls them alongside the car they think is hauling liquor, a big, beautiful Buick. Richard leans out and tells the bootlegger to pull over, but he doesn't. So, Richard ups the ante.
19:20 Speaker 05 So he's actually out on the railing board telling this bootlegger to stop. He wouldn't stop, so he started firing shots into the air, and then the car that they're chasing sped off.
19:33 Speaker 02 Now the chase is really on. And the Buick, unlike Buicks of today, is fast, like really fast. It starts to pull away. Frustrated, Richard stops firing warning shots in the air and levels his gun directly at the car. He shoots. His partner, with one hand on the wheel, leans out the driver's side window and starts shooting too.
19:57 Speaker 05 In an attempt to try to stop the car by trying to take out the tires.
20:03 Speaker 02 Richard shoots and hits the Buick.
20:07 Speaker 02 The shot doesn't hit the tire. It goes through the back window and hits the driver.
20:18 Speaker 05 He actually shot the driver through the mouth. And so when it came to the vehicle and realized, oh, this is not the person that they were actually trying to chase.
20:27 Speaker 02 Richard had made a terrible mistake.
20:30 Speaker 05 Tried to take that individual to the hospital, but it was a lethal shot.
20:36 Speaker 02 As Richard and his partner learned about the man they had killed, they were mortified. Not only was he not the bootlegger they were hunting, he didn't have any liquor on him at all. Sure, he was there, probably to buy a drink, but there was no actual evidence that he was taking part in a crime. And then.
20:55 Speaker 05 Then found out that this individual was also a World War I veteran, was married, had a child that was very young, so less than a year old. And was a hero to the community for being that World War I veteran, was very well liked.
21:12 Speaker 02 And that led to something new for Richard because in the man's hometown, Sioux City, Iowa, there was a righteous uproar against Richard.
21:22 Speaker 05 He had to have a court appearance because they were charging him with manslaughter.
21:27 Speaker 02 Led by the murdered man's grieving widow, a crowd of thousands gathered in downtown Sioux City in protest. Some in the crowd were even muttering that they should kill Richard in return.
21:38 Speaker 05 And so he was under a lot of heat, so he had to lay low.
21:43 Speaker 02 And that cleared the scene for another batch of foot soldiers even more willing to enforce prohibition, not with handcuffs, but with handguns.
21:54 Speaker 02 Remember, it was no secret at this point that the prohibition enforcement effort was a complete debacle. In Washington, Mabel was burning with white-hot rage. The gall of George Remus, the king of bootleggers doing time for tax evasion by playing poker with his pals and dining on filet mignon on Millionaire's Row. The treachery of that slimeball Jess Smith, Mabel's DOJ office mate, whose pockets were lined by the country's biggest bootleggers. They were proof that playing by the rules got you nowhere. The dry warriors in Mabel's DOJ and the prohibition agents in the Treasury came to a startling conclusion. Due process? Not working. They're done with it.
22:38 Speaker 02 In order to uphold the prohibition laws, they were ready to dispense with all the other pesky laws. And so, they saddled up with the Ku Klux Klan.
22:55 Speaker 02 Mobile, Alabama. One of the South's oldest port cities, where the Gulf of Mexico laps gently at white-sand beaches, and the spinach dip comes with crawfish. We'll get to the Klan in a minute, but before we do, you've got to understand that as a gateway to the Caribbean in 1923, Mobile was home to a whole economy of rum runners and bootleggers. And you know who hated that? Good old Mabel Walker Willebrandt. She was determined to cast a net into those waters and drag them out, gasping and flopping. But she had a problem. As always, her man on the ground was supposed to be the US Attorney, a federal government
23:37 Speaker 02 lawyer who could lead the charge to organize the prosecution, get the legal ducks in a row, you know, all that stuff. But the US Attorney in Alabama was in way over his head. After a good run, and we're talking 117 indictments against big-timers in Mobile, the liquor cabal flipped the script and arrested him! That Uno reverse card really does come in handy sometimes, doesn't it?
24:03 Speaker 05 Local DAs, local judges, didn't want to prosecute.
24:07 Speaker 02 That's historian Tom Pegram.
24:11 Speaker 05 Their local communities weren't in favor of them. Juries would turn people loose, or there would be like very small fines.
24:18 Speaker 02 And in 1923, when Mabel wanted to sweep the liquor out of Alabama, this was exactly what she faced. So she set up what she called a flying squad. She put together a handpicked crew of officers and lawyers in Washington who could travel south and leave the corrupt local officials out of the legal proceedings. All on their own, they would plan a raid, scoop up the perps, collect the evidence, and slam the wets into jail cells.
24:47 Speaker 05 This is where the Klan comes in, actually.
24:49 Speaker 02 The Klan? Those fucking guys, seriously? Well, yeah. See, in the fall of 1923, while Richard Hart was shooting at fleeing cars, Mabel was picking the new head coach for her liquor-busting team in Alabama. She needed someone beyond the reach of the Mobile Good Old Boys Network, and she landed on a lawyer named Hugo Black. Hugo made his bones as a defense lawyer for the Ku Klux Klan. One Klansman, a Methodist minister, had gunned down a Catholic priest. Hugo Black argued it was done in self-defense, since the two men had scuffled the day before.
25:30 Speaker 02 So what did Mabel take from all this? Well, in the War of the Wets Against the Drys, the Catholic communities generally held on to their drinking traditions. They were wets. In classic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic, Hugo was on her side. And the Klan, well, they were only too eager to help.
25:51 Speaker 05 The Klan started to say, hey, you know, we'll help with investigations. And even though a lot of Klansmen drank, the argument was, once it's in the Constitution, it has to be enforced, and if it's not enforced, that destabilizes American democracy. And then guess what? Who are the most likely violators of prohibition? All the groups we already don't like.
26:16 Speaker 02 Who did the Klan target? Pretty much anyone who wasn't white and Protestant. Anyone who wasn't already cut in the mold of the Women's Christian Temperance Union. We're talking immigrants, Black Americans, Jews, Catholics, everyone the Dry Movement was trying to squeeze. The Klan was like, "Hey, you're giving us an excuse to just beat up all the people we don't like? Right on." So when Mabel sees a lawyer ready to dive into the culture war by stretching the meaning of self-defense to an unbelievable breaking point, all to defend murderous Klansmen, she sees the kind of conviction she's been looking for. One reporter asked her how she justified working with the Klan, and Mabel said...
26:59 Speaker 06 I have no objection to people dressing up in sheets if they enjoy that sort of thing.
27:03 Speaker 02 So, this is crazy, right? I mean, yeah, Mabel's been the Ice Queen and all that, but there's a difference between cold and cutthroat. There's a difference between coordinating with the Coast Guard to stop rumrunners and teaming up with the nation's most powerful cabal of racist murderers. Mabel was at the end of her rope. She decided she was ready and willing to cross that line. Since Mabel recruited actual, official prosecutors from the KKK, well, it sent a signal to the Klan across the nation. So Klan members from Illinois made a trip to the Treasury Offices in Washington, and they found the doors wide open to them.
27:46 Speaker 02 They told the Treasury officials that they had plenty of foot soldiers, ready and willing to rain hell on bootleggers back at home. The Prohibition Commissioner liked the offer. He sent a few of his division chiefs and gave them the order: "Deputize the Klansmen and unleash them on Southern Illinois." And that brings us to Two Gun. No, not Richard Hart. There was actually a different guy with that nickname, too. Two Gun Glenn Young. Another two-gun in the 1920s? What can I say? This is America. There's at least two guns for every guy that wants them. Here's where both two-guns line up. By 1923, Two Gun Glenn Young had already been on trial for murdering bootleggers across
28:31 Speaker 02 Southern Illinois. In fact, he added "man-killer" to his nickname.
28:37 Speaker 02 So in 1923, the Klan in southern Illinois asked guys like Two Gun Man Killer to come on down to the city of Heron and crush a pesky problem for them. Immigrant Italian mine workers had been fighting with the mine company that ran the place. Those fights had gotten bloody. Workers had already been killed. So the Klan figured that putting a couple more guns to work was exactly what they needed. So in December of 1923, over 500 Klan raiders, deputized as prohibition agents, swept down through the Italian immigrant homes. But what they did was the opposite of law enforcement. It was straight-up terrorism. One Italian recalled the scene when a gang of armed Klansmen broke into his home.
29:22 Speaker 02 They smashed up his kitchen, they even drank his wine, mocking him before they dragged him to jail. After two major raids by the Klan, now turned into federal agents, Two Gun Man Killer took up residence as the de facto military dictator of the county. The violence continued. Home invasions, beatings, shootings. Kidnapped locals were paraded downtown by Klan gunmen. But if they thought this was going to win support for their cause, they miscalculated. Badly. The blood they spilled, it shocked the public.
29:59 Speaker 03 The Klan took over the city, dries and wets Klan and anti-Klan contending forces. Iron Hill, Glenn Young continues as acting chief of police.
30:10 Speaker 02 As the violence escalated, the Klan mounted machine guns on downtown buildings. Attacks in hospitals left the walls riddled with bullet holes. Desperate cries went out for the Army and the National Guard to step in and stop the violence. Military forces swept in to take control. Papers across the nation, from Fresno to Baltimore, carried stories of the fighting.
30:31 Speaker 03 Guardsmen patrol streets. Glenn Young, Klan dry raider, held after fight last night. Dry agent under arrest. Raids in Illinois result in charges of assault against Young.
30:44 Speaker 02 The blood spilled by two-gun man-killer Glenn Young and others like him stained the dry cause. Many prohibition supporters didn't think it had to come at such a violent price. Some supporters of the law started to waver. If this is what it took to enforce prohibition, was it really worth it? But the most hardcore dries, well, they thought the fight hadn't gone far enough. And they made that clear in their defense of Richard "Two-Gun" Hart.
31:21 Speaker 06 Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
32:06 Speaker 02 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
32:17 Speaker 06 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.
32:52 Speaker 02 The violence in Illinois shocked the nation, but in spite of that, Richard II Gunhart still had allies.
32:58 Speaker 05 Surprisingly, with the entire community against him and him fearing for his life, it was the Women's Christian Temperance Union came to his defense, and so they were able to pay for II Gunhart's attorney, to give him an attorney.
33:15 Speaker 02 This lawyer hired by the WCTU wasn't just going to defend Richard in the court of law, he was also going to defend him in the court of public opinion.
33:24 Speaker 03 This is not a question of the guilt or innocence of Hart. It is an issue of the enforcement of the law. Enforcement officers are too timid now. If an enforcement officer is convicted of such a charge, it will make bootleggers secure.
33:39 Speaker 02 All right, I want to spend a minute here because this is key. This guy, the defense lawyer for Richard Hart, is saying that whether or not Richard shot this guy doesn't really matter, because in his view, that's what it takes to enforce the law. He's saying prohibition officers should not get in trouble for gunning down suspects. But that's not all. He's also saying that it's a damn shame most officers are too scared to do what Richard had done. Think about it. He's saying this in the context of everything we've talked about. Violence was already rampant. Prohibition agents had been killing people for years. And that's what he's saying was too timid?
34:23 Speaker 02 I mean, holy shit. And remember, it was the Women's Christian Temperance Union who paid for this lawyer to defend Richard with this argument. In fact, throughout the 1920s, the WCTU had made it clear they were pretty much okay with violence against bootleggers. In their way of thinking, the only way to hold back the tide of liquor flooding the country was to unleash a hail of bullets. To them, Richard Hart's guns weren't only justified, they were sanctified.
34:55 Speaker 05 Saying that by putting him, by putting a prohibition agent, Dugan Hart, on trial for manslaughter, it's making him a martyr of prohibition.
35:05 Speaker 02 But there was one person in this moment who was wavering. You might be surprised to hear it was Mabel Walker Willebrandt. She wanted prohibition enforced, and in principle, she was okay with the violent tactics. I mean, heck, she was running cover in the papers as the Klan did the dirty work. But as the face of prohibition, she could tell the bad press was undermining her cause. She welcomed citizen vigilantes taking up arms on behalf of prohibition. But from the nerve center in the Department of Justice, she could see how crowds across the country were growing more and more angry with the bloodshed. Mabel launched an inquiry into the shooting. From the beginning, she had fought for...
35:47 Speaker 05 These fearless, high-integrity men that were willing to do this very dangerous job that the majority of the US were not in favor of.
35:58 Speaker 02 So when Mabel realized how badly it was backfiring to have cowboys and Klan cops shooting their way through liquor busts, she and the Women's Christian Temperance Union parted ways. The WCTU had been powerful in previous years, but they won their battles by getting into the papers. To Mabel's eyes, it was bad press. I imagine that made her, you know, pretty annoyed. Prohibition's already unpopular. Now, a backlash against too much violence was only gonna make her job harder. So she tried to get out ahead of it.
36:29 Speaker 05 I condemn as atrocious, wholly unwarranted, and entirely unnecessary some of the killing by prohibition agents.
36:37 Speaker 02 Did you catch that? She said she condemns "some" of the killings. Some! That is so telling to me. How about all the killing, Mabel? Does killing someone for bootlegging really feel like a punishment that fits the crime? And what about that old "right to trial by jury"? What about innocent until proven guilty? What about, you know, the rest of the law? Well, none of that was what Mabel was worried about. Nope, she's only worried about some of the killings. Apparently, just the ones that lead to bad press. Like Richard Hartz. She wrote directly to the US attorney handling his case, calling Richard...
37:16 Speaker 06 Guilty of carelessness and indifference to consequences.
37:21 Speaker 05 I think that that really did strike him hard. Here was something that he was proud of, being two gun, always getting the man, using tough guy ways to get a...
37:31 Speaker 02 Before Richard stood trial, the coroner's jury of Nebraska decided not to pursue the manslaughter case against him. But the damage to the dry cause was done by Richard and by other reckless, violent, or downright vicious enforcers. If the judge was lenient in Richard's case, Mabel was more harsh.
37:50 Speaker 05 He was forced to pay back essentially his salary for that crime and saying that he was careless and reckless in his behavior.
37:58 Speaker 02 Car chases, gunfights, massacres. It was time for the circus to end. If prohibition was gonna win, killing bootleggers in the open, where the blood was practically splattering on bystanders, kinda worked against the cause. Mabel needed to shut that down. Enforcing prohibition with arrests and court cases, that wasn't enough. Enforcing prohibition with guns in the street, well, that was backfiring. The ice queen needed something different, something that would scare the bootleggers and speakeasy drinkers so bad, they would stop on their own.
38:36 Speaker 02 All the better if this could all be done quietly. Which brings us back behind the scenes, out of the public eye where lawyers like Mabel were arguing over murder. Back into James Duran's lab. Back to chemistry. Because deep in the bowels of the Treasury Department, the prohibition enforcers led by Duran were also taking aim at drinkers. It was in their beakers and test tubes that the next assault on Americans began to take shape. That's next time on Snafu.
39:16 Speaker 05 And he writes this letter where he talks about how the poison has settled in his legs and he can't get up without falling over. His signature is just so scratchy and I mean, you can tell that he's shaking.
39:37 Speaker 02 Snafu is a production of iHeartRadio, Film Nation Entertainment, and Pacific Electric Picture Company in association with Gilded Audio. It's executive produced by me, Ed Helms, Milan Papelka, Mike Falbo, Whitney Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. Our lead producers are Carl Nellis and Alyssa Martino. This episode was written by Albert Chen, Carl Nellis, and Nevin Calapoli, with additional writing and story editing from Alyssa Martino and Ed Helms. Additional production from Stephen Wood, Olivia Canny, and Kelsey Albright. Tori Smith is our associate producer. Our story editor is Nikki Stein. Our production assistants are Nevin Calapoli and Akimini Ekpo. Fact checking by Charles Richter. Our creative executive is Brett Harris.
40:22 Speaker 02 Editing music and sound design by Ben Chug. Engineering and technical direction by Nick Dooley. Andrew Chug is Gilded Audio's creative director. Theme music by Dan Rosato. The role of Mabel Walker Willebrandt was played by Carrie Bichette. Special thanks to Alison Cohen, Daniel Welsh, and Ben Reizak.
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Previous S3E4: Trust Issues Next S3E6: Signature Cocktail Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated