Insights From Ed's Castmates & Collaborators

This summer, to tide you over until our new season arrives, catch special montage episodes brimming with collective nuggets of Snafu-laden wisdom. First up, the most insightful moments from guests who also happened to be Ed's wonderful collaborators on film and tv projects over the years. If you didn’t catch the behind-the-scenes banter before, now is a great time to devour these bite-sized morsels. Featured in this episode: Angela Kinsey, Jenna Fischer, Jake Johnson, Paul Scheer, Mike Schur, and Desi Lydic. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:24Speaker 04

  Hello, Snafu fans. Or as I like to call you, Snafuligans. Come on, that's a cool name, right? All right, I hope you're keeping cool this summer. And as we wade through this horrifically sweltering El Nino, I've got something even hotter for you. This brand-new clip episode curated by the Snafu team, and by Snafu team, I guess I really just mean me putting on different hats and using different silly voices with each hat. Now that I think about it, it's maybe kind of sad, but anyway. This summer, to tide you over, until our new season arrives, we're gonna be releasing a whole series of montage episodes tied to a certain theme or just collective nuggets of Snafu-laden wisdom. And to kick things off, I thought we might...

• 2:10Speaker 04

  Want to begin with a fun romp down memory lane with a bunch of my guests, who also happened to be my wonderful collaborators on film and TV projects over the years. So if you didn't catch the behind the scenes banter before, now is a great time to tune in and devour some bite sized morsels about what it was like to pal around with Angela Kinsey and Jenna Fischer when we had downtime between scenes on The Office, or how Mike Schur, one of The Office writers, helped conjure the character of Andy Bernard based on one of his own acquaintances. Maybe hear a little bit about Jake Johnson recalling how, when we were shooting the movie Tag, Jeremy Renner literally broke both arms

• 2:51Speaker 04

  doing a stunt and then returned to set to keep filming that same day. Yeah, it's insane. He's a superhuman. That's why he's an Avenger. Anyways, sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode of Snafu Insights from my castmates and collaborators.

• 3:15Speaker 04

  Let me ask you a very, I think, very pressing question that all of our listeners and viewers are probably wondering right now, which is how much do you miss working with me on a daily basis?

• 3:31Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh. I, I miss The Office a lot. I mean, we spend our days, our, our job now is watching the show and it always just brings up so many memories of working together. And you know how many bloopers there are.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 05

  There's so many because we would just laugh all day together. That's what we did.

• 3:53Speaker 06

  Ed, I just miss, I miss being silly with you. Like, we would get so silly. Like, I would walk past you and we would just make up a new noise, like.

• 4:04Speaker 04

  Oh my God. It's like all the stuff off camera, the, the life experience of that whole time period, which was just, had this kind of larger umbrella feeling of like, wow, we're all part of something really great. And that's like, super special. But then we're also having these really mundane, lovely moments on the set, just talking about each other's lives and families and like, I don't know, just the little, those little quiet moments. Or sitting at our trailers, like waiting for a camera setup. Or it's like, that, that's, I think, something that like, fans don't always understand is that like, our experience of making the show is actually this whole tapestry of mundane, small moments

• 4:48Speaker 04

  of just experiencing each other.

• 4:50Speaker 05

  I mean, it's an intimacy.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:53Speaker 05

  You know, of togetherness, of constant togetherness.

• 4:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 05

  And I think if I could go back and relive a moment, like if, you know, I got a genie in a bottle and I could use a wish, it would be to go back and shoot a conference room scene all day. Because when we would see those on the script or on the call sheet, and we would be like, oh, God, we gotta be in the conference room.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  It's gonna be a slog.

• 5:19Speaker 05

  Day. All day. But those were the days that created the moments you're talking about, Ed.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 5:25Speaker 05

  Those little laughs, the shares, the sweatiness together, all of it. I have something because we weren't on a huge lot, you know, there was no distraction. You know, people didn't walk off to a commissary. We were just all in this little bubble, this tiny space where we got to be creative together. It kind of reminded me a little bit of that energy you have in your early days with your improv group or your one act play. Because there was no one else, there was no shiny object to go off and look at. It was just us. Like, I loved it when you would play your banjo and Creed would bring in his guitar and we'd hang out in the parking lot, you know?

• 6:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. And it's funny you bring up those conference room scenes because those were particularly special because most of the time, we're not all together, right? Most of the time, we're just doing- Little scenes with like one or two other characters and that's the bulk of our work. But then the table read was always a special moment because every Tuesday morning was the table read of next week's script and or two weeks, I forget the timing, but then

• 6:32Speaker 05

  Oh, it was one week.

• 6:33Speaker 04

  It was one week.

• 6:34Speaker 05

  One week. It was less than a week's notice. Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  But those are the moments, those and some of those conference room scenes were like, that's where everybody's together, like everybody's and those had a really special energy, like, like a, just a little buzz to them. And when, and like you said, when they, when they were all day long, that's, and they get a little dull and they start to slow down. Everybody's trying to just hang in there. That's like some of the just most human hangout.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  Ed, you had a really unique experience joining the show because you actually joined in Stanford. So you didn't start off in the Dunder Mifflin bullpen of the Scranton Dunder Mifflin bullpen. And then you came over. What was that like for you to kind of like, soft launch into the show? Like you worked with John, you worked with Rashida, you worked with Chip.

• 7:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

• 7:36Speaker 04

  No, I love the question. I always tell people, like, that was such a gentle entry for us because of exactly what you're saying. Like, you know, Rashida and I started at a time when the show was hot. It was season three and, and you guys had already just kind of like, created this incredible thing. And so we were intimidated, but also felt kind of so warmly welcomed, both by the writers and, and all of you. Everyone's energy was so lovely.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  That's so sweet.

• 8:13Speaker 04

  It really could have gone the other way. I'm sure a lot of other shows, there's like more, it's more cutthroat or it feels more like, ah, the new people, like, let's not, let's like, let them, they have to prove themselves. But I just felt so. Like, all of my butterflies and anxiety just washed out so quickly because everyone, all of you were so lovely right out of the gate. And, which is a testament to, to all of you and the vibe that got created.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  It was collaborative, it was not competitive.

• 8:42Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  There was not like a weird like ego competitiveness going on on that set, which was so great.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 8:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was always, you know, we always say it was a real creative collaboration from the writers' room to the crew, to the cast. We were all working together to create a product that we were proud of. And I think, I mean, I think you feel that when you watch it. And I think that's why people keep enjoying it, is you're seeing a group of people having a great time.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  There's a warmth there that's real. And I think that comes through the camera. Since 1950, there have somehow been a whopping 32 broken arrow incidents. This includes theft.

• 9:24Speaker 05

  Wait, wait.

• 9:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, raising hands.

• 9:25Speaker 05

  What? 32 super duper nukes?

• 9:28Speaker 04

  Super, super duper nukers.

• 9:29Speaker 05

  32 lost nuclear weapons.

• 9:34Speaker 06

  Oy, oy, oy.

• 9:36Speaker 05

  Now I know why they call it broken arrows. Because when you say, you know what, we have 32 broken arrows, you're like, oh. If you say, we have 32 lost nuclear weapons, you're like, wait, stop. What? Say again?

• 9:49Speaker 04

  Euphemisms make hard things a lot easier. Oh, man.

• 9:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, 32.

• 9:55Speaker 06

  That's why Greg called all of our talking heads candy bags, you know?

• 9:59Speaker 04

  I forgot that.

• 10:00Speaker 06

  He said that he always felt bad giving us pages and pages of extra monologues. So he was like, I'll name them something fun. So he named them candy bags.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  I loved those. I loved doing those talking heads and like coming up with like new riffs and like the candy bag alts, like all the different versions of our talking heads. Like, it was like getting a window into the writers' brains. I just remember loving the math of those jokes and like always trying to think about how to heighten them. And they'd have to kick me out of those talking heads.

• 10:30Speaker 05

  But to your point, naming all the extra work a candy bag.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  It's a trick.

• 10:35Speaker 05

  Definitely made it go down easier. And also, calling all our screw ups bloopers.

• 10:41Speaker 05

  Makes them sound fun, too. Like, oh, that was a blooper. Like, that's just a broken arrow.

• 10:47Speaker 06

  I mean, even the word snafu is kind of fun.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  Guys, it's just a snafu.

• 10:52Speaker 05

  Whoopsie.

• 10:53Speaker 04

  Whoopsie doozy. Today, my guest is one of my oldest and dearest comedy pals. He's a writing legend. SNL, The Office, co-created Parks and Rec, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, The Good Place, Rutherford Falls. And by the way, he directed tons of all those episodes as well. And, oh, don't let me forget, out of all of us who worked on The Office, he was also the best actor. Yeah, he's the one who brought the legendary Moe's Schrute into all of our hearts and nightmares, of course. He just got a very well-deserved star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. And at this point, I'm pretty sure NASA might be trying to name a planet after him.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Please welcome Mike Schur. Hello, Mike.

• 11:41Speaker 07

  What a wonderful introduction. Thank you. I mean, thank you, first of all, for highlighting my acting. Because I think, you know, that's the legacy that I hope to leave this earth with more than anything else.

• 11:53Speaker 04

  I don't think you get enough credit for your acting. And I don't think you act enough. I think you need to be in more stuff.

• 11:58Speaker 07

  I will take any acting job that requires me to, A, remain mute, and B, run along the side of a car like a dog.

• 12:08Speaker 04

  Let's talk about Moe's for a second. Because what went into your choices? The choices that you made as an actor? Was that something that, like, the writer's room really kind of broke down? And was like, it'd be really funny if he was just sort of spooky and almost like a horror movie character just sort of popping up? Or was it, was that just your own brain sort of chewing on it? And then showing up to set and being like, I'm gonna get weird?

• 12:38Speaker 07

  Certainly, the way that Greg Daniels and the writers wrote, and I'm putting that in quotes, wrote the character of Moe's was spooky and weird and just kind of off.

• 12:51Speaker 07

  My choices as an actor, I would describe as coming from a white-hot panic. Just pure panic. Just, no one had told me what to do. I didn't know what to do. I'm not an actor. And I just did anything. I just did anything that I could think of in the moment. And people kept finding it amusing. And so I just kept panicking and doing whatever came to mind.

• 13:16Speaker 04

  I love it.

• 13:17Speaker 07

  Glad you enjoyed it.

• 13:18Speaker 04

  It was a gift to all of America. So, thank you. The world, really, truly.

• 13:23Speaker 07

  Sure, yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 04

  I'm really eager to dig into this snafu with you today, but before I do, I just wanted to tell you something. Cause I, I was thinking about, you know, we've, we've known each other for 20-ish years. And we've collaborated very closely in many different ways over the years. And I've, I've talked about you in publicly, in interviews, a lot over the years. And I realized there's something that, that I kind of say when, when your name comes up in interviews frequently. But I don't know that I've ever said it directly to you. And I, and I was like, I gotta tell Mike this. I gotta get on the record with Mike Schur.

• 14:02Speaker 04

  And let you know that, um, the character Andy Bernard on The Office

• 14:11Speaker 04

  never would have clicked for me without you.

• 14:14Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  You were such an instrumental part of like, helping me find his voice and shaping who he became. And that whole process, all of our fun little huddle-ups and, and just hard laughs and brainstorming sessions about who Andy Bernard could be and why Andy was funny or what made him funny. And it's just like one of my favorite memories of show business.

• 14:42Speaker 07

  That's so kind of you to say. I mean, I will say that, you know, you joined the show in season three. And the plot was that, you know, Jim had moved to a different office. And the office that would happen to be chosen was in Stanford, Connecticut. And I grew up in West Hartford, Connecticut, which is maybe an hour and change north of Stanford. And I just instantly knew Andy. I grew up with Andy, a lot of Andys. And it was a very familiar character to me, the sort of preppy, like good time Charlie guy who went to an Ivy League school and just wanted to be liked and was was just desperate for for like,

• 15:22Speaker 07

  you know, was maybe a little clumsy in the way that he went about it, but had a good soul and a good heart. And I just remember thinking the combination of that character description and you as an actor. I was like, oh, I know. I get this. I get this. I know exactly who this guy is. And I, and I do have a lot of, as I'm sure you do, specific memories of like little moments of like figuring out the exact right little mannerism or sort of prepster.

• 15:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 15:51Speaker 07

  Little, little turn of phrase or something that he would give. There was the, the episode where you all get drunk in the office, having to work late at night.

• 16:01Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 07

  And, and you start singing an Indigo Girls song.

• 16:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, Closer to Find.

• 16:06Speaker 07

  Closer to Find.

• 16:07Speaker 04

  Great song.

• 16:08Speaker 07

  And then Jim chimes in and you pop up and go tuna. Like so excited that he also knows all the lyrics to Closer to Find. I mean, that's, that was my childhood. That was exactly my childhood. It was like sitting around with my friends and listening to that album in particular.

• 16:22Speaker 04

  That's really where I think our friendship forged. Like that's when I met you was coming on to the office set. And just immediately, like you were one of, one of that handful of people that put me at ease immediately.

• 16:36Speaker 07

  Oh, I'm so glad.

• 16:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, it's just, yeah, it's awesome.

• 16:39Speaker 07

  It was a good time. It was a very fun, fun time. And I think all of our lives, it felt like we were just in a very creative world with a bunch of creative, fun people. And our only job was to figure out what was the funniest thing that could have happened at any given moment.

• 16:54Speaker 04

  That's exactly, our only job was to make each other laugh as hard as possible.

• 16:58Speaker 07

  Yeah. And I mean, there's no better job.

• 17:00Speaker 04

  Mike Schur, that is the story of Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed, the biggest, baddest, most corrupt machine New York City ever built. Do you have any sort of like larger, big picture takeaways? For me, I was really struck by the role that media played in this story, and particularly the role of comedy, cartoons, right? It wasn't the cops, or Congress, or even rival politicians, who brought down Boss Tweed. It was journalists and cartoonists.

• 17:26Speaker 07

  I will, I'll say a couple of things. Number one is, one of the best things about this country, this screwed up, messed up, messy, complex country that we live in, is that in the First Amendment, it says very clearly, the government cannot put you in jail for, or prosecute you in any way for speaking up and saying what you believe. And it also says that the media is free. And because of that, we have a system by which newspapers in history, and television shows, and radio programs, and other media outlets are allowed to point out and make fun of and highlight corruption in government. That has always been true. It is, in theory, I would say, still true today.

• 18:10Speaker 07

  When I worked at Saturday Night Live, which was my first job, Jim Downey, who's probably the greatest political satirist, he's the Thomas Nast of his day, really, wrote the famous debate speeches, sketches between Bush and Gore in 2000. And, you know, the famous, the first debate sketch involved, you know, summarize your campaign in one word. And Al Gore, Darryl Hammond as Al Gore said, "lockbox." And Will Ferrell, as George Bush said, "strategery." And that line stuck to George Bush so thoroughly. He did have a lot of malapropes in his day.

• 18:52Speaker 07

  But there's a large number of people who believe that he really said that, that he really said "strategery" at one point. There's a lot of people who believe that Sarah Palin said, "I can see Russia from my house." She did it. Tina Fey said that as Sarah Palin on SNL. And that, that tradition, that is very much in the Thomas Nast tradition, right? Is the, there's a difference between the way people understand the world we live in and the country we live in, from dry media reports about fraud and corruption and everything else, and the way that we see it through comedy. And comedy is often a more powerful weapon and a more direct way to make people understand something about government and corruption and fraud

• 19:34Speaker 07

  and whatever else is going on than actual news. And that's what all I was thinking of as you were telling this story is this, thank goodness that this country allows us to do that, because I believe that is the most effective way, often, for people to come to understand what their political leaders are doing. And that's what Thomas Nast did to Boss Tweet, and that's what Jim Downey and other folks have done to politicians through SNL cold opens over the years.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  Do you think that culturally, we actually kind of underestimate the power of jokes? Like, can humor still land a knockout punch? I'm thinking about

• 20:15Speaker 04

  South Park right now

• 20:16Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  is really, appears to be puncturing the armor of this administration in a very startling way.

• 20:27Speaker 07

  I mean, the media landscape in which we currently live is so much more fractured. You know, at the time, Harper's Weekly was probably the most powerful and important institution in media. And obviously, there's, you know, there's barely newspapers anymore. And now there's barely kind of TV. There's no monoculture in TV anymore. We're now in this TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat world where things are very, very fractured. Everybody has their own algorithm. So the question to me isn't whether humor can be as potent a tool anymore. It's whether the delivery mechanisms that we are employing now can actually deliver a piece of satire to the world that way, or whether people are so siloed off that

• 21:09Speaker 07

  they'll, that, you know, people, that the, a large majority of the public won't ever see the same thing. That's my fear.

• 21:15Speaker 04

  I know exactly what you mean. And I feel that sense of sort of fractured culture that you're speaking to. But I still have this feeling, and it may start, be transitioning into more of a hope at this point, but a feeling that, that truly exceptional work, whether it's a South Park episode, or, you know, a particularly keen clip of stand-up, like, the cream still rises to the top. And it does, it can still, like, sort of permeate those silos.

• 21:49Speaker 07

  I would hope so, because I think if, if the story of Boss Tweed teaches us anything, it's that, you know, that is what is needed in these moments. What's needed is a voice of satire and clarity and perspective that can cut through and present in a single picture, or a single comedy sketch, or a single joke, what it would take a scholar, you know, hours to properly relay. A picture of a, of a greedy person as a vulture devouring democracy is a lot more effective in a single blow, in a single coup than, than, you know, a lengthy article or a six-part series in the New York Times or something like that.

• 22:30Speaker 04

  Put in some applause and like, you know, roaring. Three to four minutes of hard applause? Yeah, exactly. Standing ovation, sound effects. Jake Johnson's here! Yes. We, of course, became acquainted on the movie Tag, which was just a goddamn delight. How fun was that? I mean, we had our ups and downs on the production, but it was, it was a hell of a lot of fun. Apart from Renner breaking both his arms during a stunt? Oh, my God. Remember that crazy day in the church? Of course. I remember that. Insane. Okay, so just for the listener, we're, we're doing this scene where Jeremy Renner is chasing us and he's on, he does that Fred Astaire chair move where he's, you know,

• 23:14Speaker 04

  where you like stand on the back of a chair and then, and then let it fall down and then you keep going. Only the, the sort of bit was that this was a stack of like 30 chairs. So it was like 20 feet tall. Yeah, it was high up. And, and he, and he, and he sort of falls down, but in a controlled way, off on this stack of chairs and then keeps running. But, and he was wearing a harness to make the fall smooth and not harmful to his body. This, there was some malfunction. He landed on both his arms. Both of his arms broke. Yes. And he went to the hospital and was back on set that afternoon. Shocking.

• 23:59Speaker 04

  Still shooting. Do you remember that? And I'll tell you, we've talked about this, but there are certain things you've said that are not for Jake. Breaking your arms and returning to shoot a scene in tag, not for Jake. If I break my arms. Not for Jake. I'm holed up for a while. I'm in a hospital room. I'm expecting visitors. I'm expecting a lot of you were so brave for doing that. I'm not going back to work. And then, do you remember he has to throw coffee, I think at me? Yeah. Where I run by him and he throws, but he had to use his broken arm. And I was like, I would like to complain about the fact that I need to slide on the ground, but I can't do that because he's throwing something at me.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  Cause he's doing another stunt with broken arms. With broken arms. That to me was really wild. Do you remember the scene in the church also, when it was you, me, Hannibal and probably Ham, but I'm not sure. And Hannibal farted on camera and then got upset with us when we laughed as if he were the ones not being professional. And said, come on, man, stay in it. I do. And I said, I can't. You can't. That's impossible to do. I do remember that. That was, that was pure sabotage. Oh my God. There were so many hard laughs on that set. So many ridiculous experiences.

• 25:23Speaker 04

  And then this is, this is like, I'll probably, we'll probably cut this because this is like some, some celebrity whining. But I remember being so excited because they're like, hey, we got a jet for the whole cast. And we're going to, that's how we're going to travel on this press tour. So we're all flying together and I'm like, ah, this is great. We get private airports, luxury jet. It was like a battered, old, like, uh, like a school bus with wings, literally. It was like a 1970s, like Southwest retired airplane.

• 26:02Speaker 04

  It was such a piece of junk. It was like, I mean, okay.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  Please don't cut that out. That was so good.

• 26:13Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. This is tag. Just the disappointment. It's like we're getting to the end to the, we're at a private airport. Like, this is gonna be so great. It's so fun and great. And then we get on and it's like, oh, these, the seats are torn, like, there's rats running around in this airplane. I would rather be on a Greyhound. It smells like cigarettes. Like, He was a Greyhound of the sky. This plane hadn't been cleaned since people smoked on planes. It was Greyhound. It was a Greyhound airplane, is what it was. That's great. I do, that's great stuff, man. Hi. How are you? I'm awesome. It's so good to see you. Yeah, it's really good to see you, too.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  We worked together a very long time ago, and you've done so many incredible things since then, and I am enormously proud of you and proud to know you. Thank you. I feel the same way about you. It's been half a lifetime since we worked together. Yeah, pretty much. When was that? You were your Daily Show tenure. I started in 2002 and went to 2006. I was 99 to 2003. Okay, yeah. So we overlapped about two years, maybe a year and a half. And, uh, and you and I- Two years that we just happened to win a Peabody. Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 27:28Speaker 04

  I don't know. Coincidence? I don't know. You tell me. I don't think so. That's what, that's why this, this is our first collaboration since then, and it's going to win a Peabody. Like, this actual episode. Knock on wood. That's what we do. That's how we do it. So, we, you and I collaborated on a number of segments in our Daily Show days, and one of the ones I am most proud of is, in fact, a Dan Tbersky segment. A delightful little number called Guns for Tots. Explain the premise of this, of this segment we did for the Daily Show. Uh, it was this guy who, um, who wanted to make sure, he, he was, he was, what was he doing? He was- Libertarian.

• 28:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, he was a libertarian, yeah, he was a libertarian guy, and he was, and he was protesting the existence of a law that was trying to keep guns away from kids. Like, if you had a squirt gun, you had to, like, paint it bright pink so it didn't look like-

• 28:21Speaker 02

  ...a gun, so some kid didn't get shot by accident by a cop.

• 28:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  And he was just up in arms.

• 28:26Speaker 04

  And he felt like this was government overreach.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  100%.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  That, that the government would have the audacity to, uh, to interfere with someone's, uh, rights to, uh, arm their children. And this is all true. This is real. This is the real stuff that we did a satirical piece about, but the real premise was this guy had a, a, uh, very provocative toy drive called Guns for Tots, in which he gave, uh, toy guns to children in Harlem, New York.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 04

  And we went and covered it.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  And we treated him like, like.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  Like the hero.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  He's a warrior. He was a justice warrior. He was just like.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  Justice warrior.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  He was like making a difference, that guy.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  I'll never forget our, the, the segment closed with, um, him talking about how he wants to, he can't wait to buy guns for his children, his own children. And we, we cut to our amazing editor at the time, Iner, had a beautiful little daughter and in, did you remember this? We filmed her playing with a, with a toy gun that had been painted black and looked very real.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Looks like a gun.

• 29:32Speaker 04

  And it's like this, the sweetest, most horrifying juxtaposition of, of a, a child with what looks like a Glock.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's incredible. It's incredible. It's an amazing visual.

• 29:43Speaker 04

  I mean, it's crazy how long ago that was.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Honestly, it's the only time I've ever gotten any validation. You just reading off those credits made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow.

• 29:51Speaker 04

  I mean, you're Chris. I didn't even mention your book. You, you just had a, you just wrote a book.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  I have a book. Uh, you know, look, you and I are now, uh, authors. We are bestselling authors. Very exciting.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  It is very exciting. I'm very proud of us. I was trying to, I was trying to think back to the origin of our friendship and it just, it, it falls into that huge basket of just wonderful people orbiting the UCB Theater in New York City around, what, like 1999?

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Right in that, that area because, you know, it's, it's interesting. There are certain people that, like Jason Manzoukis, obviously, we co-host this podcast together. I know Jason for many years, but Jason was not somebody that was invited to my wedding.

• 30:31Speaker 04

  Uh, which is a crazy thing because we weren't that close at that point in our, he's definitely a friend. He didn't make that cut. He didn't make that cut. I was at your wedding. You were. And I was the whole time. I was like, where is Jason? This is horrible. Meanwhile, Jason gave a toast at my wedding. As a matter of fact. It's wild to me that I talked to him all the time and he was somebody that was not, that was just not a close friend at that moment. Yeah, but it, you're so right in that, uh, I feel like there's so many people from that community that I, that they somehow like merged with our DNA at that time. It's like we, we knew each other when we were just comedy larva wriggling around.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  We were performing in an old strip club where sometimes you'd be doing a show and people would get up and leave and you're like, did I do a bad job? Like, no, they just thought they were coming to a strip club and were very confused for the first 45 minutes of the show. They're like, this is great, but when are they going to take off their clothes? I remember there was a basement, uh, that you would get to through a trap door, basically. Yeah. On the most rickety wooden staircase of all time to get down it. And you would go down there and it was like a grotto from, from like 16th century Paris. Wet brick walls and dirt floor. It was a, it was a, a New York City catacomb, if you will. Yeah, that's what it was. Oh, I mean, you would see the craziest stuff and it was only one way in and one way out.

• 31:57Speaker 04

  Wait, somebody was giving haircuts down there. Well, haircuts down there and on stage. Uh, yeah, one of the, uh, one of the, uh, resident teachers there. Yeah. A legend. One of the originals. No audience, no audience. Really crazy. That should have been its own show, the haircut show. Weirdly, it would have found an audience too. I'm sure of it. A hundred percent. Actually, more palatable than some of the shows that we did experiment with. Well, as, as one of, uh, the OG podcasters and one of, one of the greats in the podcasting biz. Thank you. No, truly, like you've carved out such an awesome niche. It's been so cool to see. You do a lot of shows in the studio. You do a lot of shows live on tour. Do you have a preference?

• 32:39Speaker 04

  I think, yeah, for me, I think there's something really fun about when it's just Jason, June and I chatting with each other. I think that that's always really a blast. And we're not playing for laughs, but when we do it in front of an audience, it's. I like the, I like the showmanship of it. I like, I like getting out in front of an audience. I like finding where the jokes are, finding what they find funny and kind of chasing that because sometimes also it can get almost so, what I love about the studio is it's so casual that sometimes you are just having a conversation and maybe that's okay too, but like, you know, you forget like, oh, we gotta like hit some more jokes or, or that one thing is funny. Like, and I didn't even think it was that funny. Well, are you ready?

• 33:24Speaker 04

  I'm thrilled. I'm such a fan of Snafu. The book was great. I loved the podcast.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  This is very cool to be on with you because I was a regular avid watcher of The Daily Show for many, many years while you were on and you're part of the reason why I wanted to be on The Daily Show, admiring your work and Jon's and Steve and Steven and every, and Sam. It's just, yeah, this is very cool. So, thank you.

• 33:49Speaker 04

  That is so sweet. Go on.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, another thing that I specifically like about your performance.

• 33:55Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Your everyman-like ability, your razor-sharp wit.

• 34:02Speaker 04

  Okay, okay, okay. This'll all get edited out, but, but I'm loving it. Yeah, so we do have The Daily Show in common. It's been, I hate to say this, I'm, but it's been almost 20 years since I worked there.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 34:14Speaker 04

  That feels insane to me, but you're there now and you've been there a bunch of years and...

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, 10, almost 10.

• 34:21Speaker 04

  Which is...

• 34:22Speaker 02

  It's just crazy, too.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  So badass. You're, you guys are... How was this transition? So, when I was there, obviously Jon Stewart was the full-time host and I was sort of a part of a cadre of correspondence. And we did focus mostly on field segments and then the studio pieces with Jon. But, but now, and that's kind of how you started too, right? With Trevor?

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Yes, definitely.

• 34:45Speaker 04

  At a certain point, you transitioned into also part of this rotating host formula, which I just think is so cool. And I think it's working so well. What was that like? What was that transition like?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Crazy. I mean, I, it, there was a period of time where we were kind of testing out some different ideas and we didn't really know what was gonna happen and who the host was gonna be and, and then it started to open up a little bit and I kinda threw my hat in the ring and put my hand up and said, "Hey, put, put me in, Coach," before I could think about it too hard.

• 35:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, hell yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  And just by some chance that they would consider me. And then we, this format came about and John came back to the show and, yeah, it was, it was a little terrifying because, you know, being a, being a correspondent, it's not an easy job by any means, but you're, you are, you're in character. You're, so I was very accustomed to being on the show as the, the character of the correspondent. And when you're hosting, you're basically yourself. So it was a, it was a whole other type of, type of work and like requires practice and giving it a shot. And so I didn't really know if I could do it, but the team here

• 36:01Speaker 02

  is so incredible. It's a well-oiled machine. Everyone had our backs and we all support one another. And we've got John, who could not be a more exceptional leader. And watching him every Monday is like a masterclass. So to get to try something new creatively and something so exciting and to get to look to him is, it's beyond a dream come true.

• 36:25Speaker 04

  I think comedians in general, or comedy people, are trained, or it's almost like a, like an instinct or a reflex to look for snafus.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:37Speaker 04

  We're always kinda trying to look under the surface at kinda what's going wrong. And especially at a place like The Daily Show, like you're looking for what's going wrong in order to generate satire. I actually found that, I loved it. And it was like very invigorating. I felt like I was part of a meaningful satirical voice at the show. But it kind of took a toll on me over a long period of time focusing entirely on a little bit of the darker side of things.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:10Speaker 04

  And I wonder if you've ever felt that or felt a sense of exasperation.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 04

  It can sort of like eat you a little bit. That's what I found.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, Ed, I'm dead inside. So I feel nothing anymore. It is gone. I've lost all sense of humanity. No, it is, it is taxing. It really is. And I think for, for me, I've kind of gone up and down on it. It's a bit of an emotional roller coaster, a mental roller coaster. Because you're right, there's no escaping it. You can't just bury your head in the sand and be like, well, I'm just gonna not pay attention to the news today. But I will say, I think some kind of action, even for us, even if it's just finding the comedy in it, even if it's just creative action, it feels good to do something and

• 38:03Speaker 02

  just talk about it, admit that it's happening in a room full of people who can kind of provide catharsis and support and we can talk it out with each other. And then also being forced to find the humor in it somewhere is my therapy. It is redeeming. It really, and especially this year.

• 38:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, so The Daily Show is, is your therapist, is what you're saying.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  It totally is. It totally is. They should be billing me. I'm sure I'll get an invoice in the mail. I pay them to do the show.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Snafu is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snafu Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Post-production and creative support from Good Egg Audio. Our executive producers are me, Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim, and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tori Smith. Our managing producer is Carl Nellis. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Additional story editing from Carl Nellis. Our creative executive is Brett Harris, logo and branding by Matt Gosson and the collected works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Megan Halsin, and Caroline Johnson.

• 39:19Speaker 04

  Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Carrie Lieberman, and Nikki Ator. While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snafu: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screwups. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to snafu-book.com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.

• 39:51Speaker 01

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