"James Gunn"

It’s fun with the words… with James Gunn. Super subjects like a Kevin with a hard C, the super-package, and sensitivity as a superpower. Keep your eyes off my plums, man; it’s an all-new SmartLess.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sean Hayes?

  This episode of Smartless is sponsored by Google Book. So this may not surprise you, I have a lot of thoughts in my head. And my dream is to just blurt them out and somehow get them down on paper, because my brain works way faster than my hands. That's where Google Book comes in. It's a whole new kind of laptop. No more typing, you just talk, and the Rambler feature cleans up your ums and uhs and all the times you change your mind. Basically, it turns messy thoughts into tidy text. Visit googlebook.com for details. Available in select countries and languages to 18-plus users. Check the responses for accuracy.

• 0:43Sean Hayes?

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• 1:19Sean Hayes?

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• 1:58Speaker 01

  Monday on NBC. The wait is over for St. Dennis Medical. Strap in. The comedy about doctors.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Woo, let's get it!

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Without boundaries.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Healthcare is a fun, fulfilling, exciting career.

• 2:11Speaker 03

  Is it because you're getting sued and puked on all the time?

• 2:14Speaker 01

  And they're back for another dose.

• 2:16Speaker 04

  I want to show you the secret sauce of St. Dennis: the staff. This place is hell. Literal hell. Well, that's enough secret sauce.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  All-new St. Dennis Medical, Monday on NBC.

• 2:34Will Arnett?

  Great to be here with you guys.

• 2:36Jason Bateman?

  Oh, it's so great to be here with you too. I'm Jason. Hey, what's your name? I'm Sean.

• 2:40Will Arnett?

  And I'm Will.

• 2:41Jason Bateman?

  Hey, Will, welcome. Hey, Jason. Hey, Will.

• 2:43Will Arnett?

  I'm just feeling really cozy today.

• 2:45Jason Bateman?

  Ah, yeah? You want to chat about stuff?

• 2:48Will Arnett?

  Well, I just want to kind of cozy up to our listener, you know?

• 2:51Jason Bateman?

  Put on some nice soft socks.

• 2:52Will Arnett?

  Snug up, yeah. Get a nice wrap.

• 2:55Jason Bateman?

  A wrap, a throw, a pashmina?

• 2:58Will Arnett?

  Yeah. And just get like a real cozy, like just real cozy.

• 3:03Jason Bateman?

  Are you gonna light a fire?

• 3:05Will Arnett?

  Yeah, just a real cozy welcome. And if you listen to the snap, crackle, pop of the fire, you can just barely hear, you can just barely...

• 3:11Jason Bateman?

  Grease up your ear holes, everyone. Here comes Will.

• 3:14Will Arnett?

  Welcome, welcome to Smartless. Welcome to Smartless.

• 3:18Jason Bateman?

  That's so gross.

• 3:37Jason Bateman?

  Hi.

• 3:38Will Arnett?

  Hi.

• 3:38Jason Bateman?

  Hi. Hi. How's everybody doing? Look at Will's haircut. Hey, Will, you finally figured it out.

• 3:44Will Arnett?

  Christ.

• 3:44Jason Bateman?

  Got with some tough sledding there for all of us for a week or so.

• 3:48Will Arnett?

  I got a lot of like, I got a lot of really shitty comments.

• 3:52Jason Bateman?

  You did? Someone's got to be honest with you.

• 3:54Will Arnett?

  About my hair. I know.

• 3:56Jason Bateman?

  All the people commenting? But then like, well, who's responsible for what we had to deal with for a couple of weeks? And then who's responsible for this pleasure cut here? Yeah. Same criminal? Was it Eli?

• 4:08Will Arnett?

  No, no, no, no, no. Eli's done a fantastic job. No, I'm in New York. I went and saw my guy Kevin Wu. Who is the best.

• 4:15Jason Bateman?

  I guess the next one's free.

• 4:17Will Arnett?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, he's never received a mention. He's the best.

• 4:21Jason Bateman?

  And what was his name again?

• 4:23Will Arnett?

  It's Kevin Woon.

• 4:24Jason Bateman?

  And you want to spell that for the listener?

• 4:26Will Arnett?

  W O O N.

• 4:27Jason Bateman?

  And you'd find him?

• 4:28Will Arnett?

  And Kevin's with a K. You'd find him.

• 4:32Jason Bateman?

  You ever met a Kevin with just a hard C?

• 4:37Will Arnett?

  That'd be pretty funny.

• 4:38Jason Bateman?

  How would you spell that to make sure no one goes seven?

• 4:41Will Arnett?

  So seven, no, it's Kevin.

• 4:43Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 4:44Will Arnett?

  Or like a Q U.

• 4:45Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Sean Hayes?

  Kevin.

• 4:48Will Arnett?

  I am Kevin.

• 4:49Jason Bateman?

  Wait, Will, where are you? It looks like you're at your grandma's spot?

• 4:53Will Arnett?

  I'm not, I mean, do you want me to give a shout out to the hotel? It's new.

• 4:56Jason Bateman?

  Yes, it's, it's good. It's the Whitby.

• 4:58Will Arnett?

  No, it's, it's Warren Street.

• 5:01Jason Bateman?

  Warren Street?

• 5:02Will Arnett?

  Down in Trybunx.

• 5:03Jason Bateman?

  And you'd find that on Warren Street down there, yeah.

• 5:06Will Arnett?

  Yeah, and I gotta say.

• 5:08Jason Bateman?

  I like those hotels.

• 5:09Will Arnett?

  It's pretty fantastic.

• 5:10Jason Bateman?

  Is it cozy?

• 5:10Will Arnett?

  Yeah, it's pretty, pretty great. I didn't know what to, because I used to go into the place that we always go to and then.

• 5:16Sean Hayes?

  You know, Jay, the Farmdale Hotels? You know, those little boutique hotels?

• 5:21Jason Bateman?

  Here, here comes Sean for he'd like a freebie all over the world, not just. Wait, Will, why aren't you at the usual spot, Willie?

• 5:29Will Arnett?

  Because they didn't have what I wanted, because they were full.

• 5:32Jason Bateman?

  I see you haven't had your chocolate strawberries over your right shoulder yet. Are you gonna wait?

• 5:36Will Arnett?

  They're plums. Get your eyes off my plums, man.

• 5:42Will Arnett?

  We haven't really spoken, we haven't spoken since we did our live show with our buddy John Mayer. Which was really fun.

• 5:48Sean Hayes?

  That's super fun.

• 5:49Jason Bateman?

  It really was out there in LA there at the Avalon.

• 5:53Will Arnett?

  Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

• 5:54Jason Bateman?

  We're still kind of thinking about maybe doing another one later in the year. We're not sure.

• 5:59Will Arnett?

  Well, we also keep talking about, we know we got a lot of people saying like, oh, you guys, you know, you're not, you're not doing. We, we keep talking about doing a tour and it is something that we are, we have, we almost did last year, remember? We got really close, we had dates and then it didn't work out. But we have a lot of fun doing it. So we, we would like to try to, if we can, figure out a time that we can do it again. Um, plus this other live show, JB, that you talked about that we may do at the end of the year. So, you know, it is something that we are actively looking to do if anybody cares. Probably they don't, but. It's something that we do want to do.

• 6:30Jason Bateman?

  Also, if anybody cares, Granddad is now officially on Instagram.

• 6:34Will Arnett?

  Yeah, I was just gonna say, yes.

• 6:36Jason Bateman?

  So, but what am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to put up pictures, right? This is not like so that the, the, the, the writing, that was Twitter. I got rid of the Twitter. But now this is just pictures, right? So I take like a fun shot of, you know, me in traffic, right? I put up stuff like that.

• 6:51Will Arnett?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Jason Bateman?

  Hey, crazy on the 405 today, right? Just put that up, people will love it.

• 6:56Will Arnett?

  Please, please do that. Please just make your Instagram traffic updates.

• 7:00Jason Bateman?

  Or shot of a candle burning, uh, just relaxing.

• 7:04Will Arnett?

  Uh huh. Do a lot of pray hands, a lot, talk about gratitude a lot.

• 7:08Jason Bateman?

  What if I can get my dog on a skateboard? Do that. God, yeah, your, your views will go, will skyrocket. Dogs on skateboards. Alright, everybody's been warned.

• 7:17Will Arnett?

  I tell you what, I'm gonna warn you guys. I'm gonna warn you guys about our guest because you guys are both gonna be. No, you guys are, I don't, I'm not even looking. You guys are both gonna be excited for different reasons, for all the right reasons. This, this is a big one.

• 7:32Jason Bateman?

  Really?

• 7:33Will Arnett?

  Yeah. Uh, JB, you're gonna be excited on a bunch of different levels. Sean, you're gonna be excited on a bunch of different levels, which all meet. I'm excited on a ton of different levels. This is, we get a lot of talented people on here, but I love when we have people on who do lots of different things, especially when they built it themselves and came from humble beginnings. Our, our, our guest today.

• 7:53Jason Bateman?

  This is Elon Musk. I want to apologize for dropping Twitter.

• 7:57Will Arnett?

  He hails from St. Louis, Missouri, so it's not. Our, our guest is from St. Louis, Missouri originally. Went to Columbia University, got his start in showbiz, you know, in paid showbiz, working for Troma Entertainment out of New York, the home of lots of great, what people would call B-movies, but really like low-budget horror films and stuff, really cool stuff.

• 8:19Jason Bateman?

  So intentionally kind of close to trauma, but it's not, it's Troma. This is fun. It's fun with the words, Sean.

• 8:26Will Arnett?

  It's it's fun with the it's fun with the words, yeah.

• 8:29Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Will Arnett?

  Uh, you know, he uh, he's written lots of films. He's written lots of books. Hang on a second. It's so good.

• 8:36Jason Bateman?

  You're terrible at this.

• 8:37Will Arnett?

  His first thing he wrote was uh, Tromeo and Juliet in uh, nineteen ninety seven.

• 8:42Jason Bateman?

  He's having fun with the fucking words.

• 8:44Will Arnett?

  He's written so many uh, he's written so many scripts. It started with when the big uh, the big studios for films like Scooby Doo. And then uh, Dawn of the Dead. And then Slither, which he directed with Nathan Fillion and Elizabeth Banks. Um, he went then on went on to do uh, a feature film, Super. Then he went on to do all of the Guardians of the Galaxies movies. And now he is the co-chairman, CEO of DC Studios, guys, James Gunn.

• 9:11Jason Bateman?

  Holy shit.

• 9:12Sean Hayes?

  How, bing bing.

• 9:13Will Arnett?

  What did I tell you?

• 9:14Jason Bateman?

  Paper comes off. Hey, guys.

• 9:15Speaker 07

  Nice going.

• 9:16Jason Bateman?

  Nice going, Will.

• 9:18Will Arnett?

  What did I tell you? What did I tell you?

• 9:20Speaker 07

  Hey, Sean.

• 9:20Sean Hayes?

  How are you? Good to see you.

• 9:21Speaker 07

  I know Sean.

• 9:22Sean Hayes?

  I know James.

• 9:23Speaker 07

  I do.

• 9:24Jason Bateman?

  How do you two know each other?

• 9:25Speaker 07

  We had dinner at Chris Pratt's house and then we watched uh, an Alexander Payne movie.

• 9:31Sean Hayes?

  That's right.

• 9:31Jason Bateman?

  Which one? What was it? Uh, Shrinking?

• 9:34Sean Hayes?

  No, the one in the winter. It was in the winter in the college.

• 9:37Speaker 07

  The last one. Oh.

• 9:38Jason Bateman?

  What's it called?

• 9:38Speaker 07

  Holdovers.

• 9:39Sean Hayes?

  Holdovers, yeah.

• 9:40Will Arnett?

  I love that. I love.

• 9:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, I loved it.

• 9:43Will Arnett?

  I love that film so much. I thought the Holdovers was so, so fantastic.

• 9:48Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, I loved it too.

• 9:48Speaker 07

  And I know I've met Will a couple of times, but I can't. I I remember one time it was at a screening somewhere, but it was a long time ago. It was when I was still married to Jenna.

• 9:56Will Arnett?

  I was gonna say the same thing. We have met a couple of times, but it was like twenty years ago.

• 10:01Speaker 07

  Exactly, yeah. Right, yeah.

• 10:03Will Arnett?

  And neither of us remembers it. It didn't leave an imprint with either of us.

• 10:08Speaker 07

  I remember you standing there.

• 10:10Sean Hayes?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Will Arnett?

  I do a lot of that.

• 10:13Sean Hayes?

  Um, James, look at all the photo, look at all the paintings behind you. Like, you look like you're in a museum almost.

• 10:18Jason Bateman?

  Now, hey, uh, now, Sean, who is that? Who who is who is the heavyset fellow there in the black and white?

• 10:24Sean Hayes?

  I'm afraid to say.

• 10:25Jason Bateman?

  I'm gonna give you two guesses.

• 10:26Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:27Jason Bateman?

  Go ahead.

• 10:27Sean Hayes?

  No, I can't. I can't. I don't want to say. I'm gonna embarrass myself.

• 10:30Jason Bateman?

  I think I might embarrass myself too.

• 10:32Speaker 07

  Go ahead.

• 10:32Sean Hayes?

  Uh, is I I don't know. I don't know.

• 10:35Jason Bateman?

  It's this is a heavyset, black and white photo, looks like an old president, listener, and I'm gonna go with, I'm gonna go Taft. Is it Taft?

• 10:42Speaker 07

  It is. It's Taft. It's a it's a painting, though, but if you notice, instead of a pocket watch, there's sausage links there. Uh, little sausage links.

• 10:51Speaker 07

  I didn't even see that, that's hilarious. It's a very elegant looking painting. Beautiful, and then just kind of, you know, just a smaller part of the painting, there's sausage links. Wait, who, who did that? Uh, I can't remember the artist's name. Yeah, that's great. His name's not on there, so I bought it a long time ago.

• 11:07Will Arnett?

  That's okay.

• 11:08Jason Bateman?

  James, I'm very excited to meet you.

• 11:10Speaker 07

  I'm excited to meet you too, I'm a big fan.

• 11:12Jason Bateman?

  I'm a big fan of yours. I wanna know everything about everything that you're doing, and, sorry Will, I, I know, go.

• 11:17Will Arnett?

  Well, no, no, no, I do, I do too, and I'm with you, and I really, and I mentioned it in the, in the opening, uh, James, because I think it's so interesting, because as a guy who feels like, I grew up in Toronto, but I, I really grew up in New York, I moved when I was 20, and I remember all the times past, going down 9th Avenue and seeing Troma, ads for Troma up on the side of the building.

• 11:37Speaker 07

  Right.

• 11:37Will Arnett?

  And I was always like, what is the deal with these guys at Troma Entertainment? And that's where you got your start, so please just, Ed, just tell us a little bit about that experience, and what it is, and what that was for you.

• 11:48Speaker 07

  I was still in grad school, and, um.

• 11:52Jason Bateman?

  Studying what?

• 11:53Speaker 07

  Uh, studying, uh, uh, writing.

• 11:56Jason Bateman?

  Okay.

• 11:56Speaker 07

  Um, at Columbia. And I got a job at Troma to write a screenplay for a movie called Tromeo and Juliet for 150 bucks. Troma, and, and I'm not saying that as an exaggeration, I mean literally 150 bucks. Uh, Troma was most known for the Toxic Avenger films, they were, like, made a lot of money, and then they made a, you know, they started out with sort of, uh, you know, TNA movies, like Squeeze Play, stuff that, you know, I watched on Cinemax as a kid. More fun with titles. But that made money in theaters, and then they made a bunch of movies that made a bunch of movie on, uh, video cassette. So they actually made a lot of money in the 70s and 80s, and this was the 90s, so they weren't making as much.

• 12:40Speaker 07

  Um, but they were never paying anyone for anything, they did, they made money for, uh, doing everything for free.

• 12:45Jason Bateman?

  I mean, it was traumatic to work for them, you guys.

• 12:47Speaker 07

  Nice, Jason. Well, Lloyd, Lloyd Kaufman, the head of Troma, says that Trome, the word Troma means, uh, excellence in celluloid in Latin, so I don't know how much, uh. Well, that's what he says. I don't think there's a Latin word for celluloid.

• 13:01Will Arnett?

  But he's kind of like, almost like an east coast Roger Corman. Is that a fair comparison?

• 13:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, like a more raw, rougher. I mean, the difference is, is that Corman just was 100% product, but Lloyd is kind of an artist. It's just that his artistry is, not kind of, he's an artist. But his artistry is very blood splattery and sexual and very trashy. But there is a sort of feeling to Troma films that the AIP, Roger Corman's company's films didn't have. Got it.

• 13:35Will Arnett?

  But you, but you were able to cut your teeth there. You were able, you were given the experience, the opportunity to write a script, to write a screenplay. You went, you didn't even go into, is it true you were applying for a job just to work there? They asked you to write it?

• 13:48Speaker 07

  Uh, sort of. I mean, I went in to meet with him and, and then he had, by the end of that meeting, I think he asked me to write the screenplay. Um, I, I, I, I was doing like these sort of monologues. It was these monologue things, uh, downtown New York. And so he kind of knew who I was from that.

• 14:09Will Arnett?

  Right, okay.

• 14:10Speaker 07

  Yeah, the thing is, is that at Troma, and I just was able to learn about every single facet of filmmaking. So yeah, I wrote the screenplay, but I ended up, my credits, I think are executive producer, but then also associate director? Because I basically ended up, you know, directing portions of the film. That's a sitcom title. It is. One of my first jobs was to choreograph a sex scene between two women. So that was sort of my, my first, yeah, it was horrible. It's a different job title nowadays.

• 14:42Will Arnett?

  I think I speak for Sean when I say gross.

• 14:47Speaker 07

  That's the quote from this episode.

• 14:51Jason Bateman?

  So then you learned, you learned a lot of stuff about, about the nuts and the bolts of, of making a film because you were on set a lot for the thing that you wrote?

• 15:00Speaker 07

  Well, I was on set every single day. I directed the actors. Nobody talked to the actors but me.

• 15:04Jason Bateman?

  Gotcha.

• 15:05Will Arnett?

  Oh, wow.

• 15:05Speaker 07

  It was, it was like I just learned and I just, I would come home every day from work with the girl I was living in at the time and I was like, I think I've found my home. It was like I was alive.

• 15:16Jason Bateman?

  What felt so great about it? Was it just like the fun of making fake life?

• 15:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, I think it just, I was good at it.

• 15:21Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 15:22Speaker 07

  I really was good at it. And I, I, I mean, it wasn't like I had no experience making films. I started making films when I was very young, just out of fun. But I was just one of these artistic kids that did everything. I made films, I took photographs, I played in rock bands, I did comic strips, um, but I understood filmmaking pretty, pretty well.

• 15:39Will Arnett?

  And you, you, yeah, you were making films like as young as eight with your brother, is that true?

• 15:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, I think about 11 I started making movies and it was like, I had seen Friday the 13th and I'm like, oh, we can all do this. And, uh, and I was tearing apart my brother Sean, who's an actor now, um, you know, with fake blood and...

• 15:57Jason Bateman?

  But like, but look at all of that, and, and the years from then until now, I mean, look at where you are and what you're doing. Like what, is it, tell me you're not jaded and it's not lost on you, like how frickin' awesome it is that you're doing exactly what you were passionate about when you were, what, eight, 10? And, and do you think it was because of that passion that you're where you're at now? Um, or was it just, uh, was it, was it, was there a moment of great luck, right place, right time? I'm sure a combination of, of, of a lot of it.

• 16:28Speaker 07

  I think it is a combination of a number of things. It's a combination of, of luck. It, luck is definitely plays a hand in it. I think a part of it is

• 16:35Jason Bateman?

  I agree.

• 16:36Speaker 07

  that I still, I somehow am able to shut out the world about what the world thinks and just act from a creative place.

• 16:43Jason Bateman?

  Wow.

• 16:44Speaker 07

  So I don't have to do what I'm doing to like, you know, please, like that can come in after.

• 16:49Jason Bateman?

  Right.

• 16:49Speaker 07

  Yet at the same time, I have a right brain mentality. So I'm sort of able to think how things fit into a, a pattern.

• 16:57Jason Bateman?

  The boxes you need to check for the commercial viability of it, etc.

• 17:01Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, the puzzle making part of it is, is a, a part of it for me. So I think, yeah, I think I have the right mix of being passion creativity, but also detachment.

• 17:12Jason Bateman?

  Which you need now, running the studio, the DC element. You've got to not only be the creative element, but you also have to oversee other creatives you bring in underneath it and make sure that you're marshaling things in more of sort of a corporate agenda at times as well, yes?

• 17:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, although I have a partner, Peter Safran, who takes care of everything that I don't want to have to take care of. So he goes to all the corporate meetings.

• 17:36Jason Bateman?

  Dry cleaning.

• 17:37Will Arnett?

  You built in a bad guy.

• 17:39Speaker 07

  He picks up my dry cleaning, yeah.

• 17:40Will Arnett?

  Right, you built in a bad guy. So like, so somebody comes and goes like, "Hey, we want to do this." You're like, "I'd love to, but Peter says we can't."

• 17:47Speaker 07

  I hate to say it, I'm still the bad guy. But he's, yeah, but he takes care of all the, you know, sort of practical stuff in the studio. He knows all about the money and all. I don't know what's going on with that.

• 17:59Jason Bateman?

  Right, right.

• 18:00Speaker 07

  I really am here mostly to try to, you know, create creative, you know, stories that are good. And, you know, one of our main commitments is to the writing of the story. So that means that the writers are, you know, lifted up in, you know, a place where they've been, I think, just sort of, their place has diminished in Hollywood, especially in filmmaking, not in television. And to be able to, you know, make sure we never go into production on a script that I don't think is finished and great.

• 18:29Will Arnett?

  That's a great point that you bring up. I feel like there's so much, the writers, especially in film, have been sort of taken for granted in the sense of like, "We're gonna make this movie. We'll get somebody to just write it, and then we're gonna make this movie." It's like, "No, no, no, you're skipping the biggest step."

• 18:44Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 18:45Will Arnett?

  Which is, you need, the material needs to be there. Otherwise, what are you doing? And people just kind of skip over it.

• 18:51Jason Bateman?

  Isn't that at odds sometimes, James, when, especially in the big tent pole stuff that you guys do there at DC, where you have to like, put your flag down on the ground with a date? And then sometimes that script is not yet written, but it has to be written by a certain time in order to make the film, all the effects and all that stuff, and hit that release date. Isn't that sometimes at odds with you saying, "We're not doing anything till the script's right"?

• 19:18Speaker 07

  It is, but I'll change the date. I don't, you know, I mean, if that has to happen.

• 19:21Jason Bateman?

  Gotcha.

• 19:22Speaker 07

  I mean, I just generally, you know, we've been just running off of, you know, screenplays. So Superman got finished, people liked it, we made Superman. Supergirl was written by this wonderful writer, Anan Aguara. And then that was really good, and so we greenlit that. Right. Clayface came in to us by Mac Flanagan. He wrote a great script, and so we greenlit that. Batman 2 has had, you know, Matt Reeves, you know, has moved the date a couple of times of when it's coming in. But it's, you know, we moved the date because Matt wasn't ready with the script. And we need to give him time to finish the script in the way he wants. That's awesome.

• 20:00Jason Bateman?

  Right, yeah, that is great.

• 20:01Speaker 07

  I've been around, I mean, I've been around so many big movies by this time. And I just see that the problems are always that you have these screenplays that are, you know, they say, okay, well, we have the first act. That's really good. Um, let's set our production date for five, six months from now. And then they go into production and they don't have the last act and they're writing it during production. Yeah. And that's just not how screenplays work. Everything in the first act, what they're doing is naturally related to what happens in the last act. Sure, right.

• 20:32Will Arnett?

  Yeah, and you have, you have so much experience in that. And as Jason said, working in these big ten pole films because you've worked on the biggest films for, for the two biggest players in this sort of the superhero IP world that there is. There's DC and there's Marvel. And you have kind of gone back and forth a little bit between the two.

• 20:51Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 20:52Will Arnett?

  Right, is, is there, are there similarities in terms of the culture between the two?

• 20:58Speaker 07

  Well, the, the culture at DC Studios is new. It's me and Peter, so we haven't even been here for three years. So that's new. Um, and the culture at Marvel, there were so many things I loved about being at Marvel. I mean, first of all, Kevin and Lou, the guys who are in charge are just really just great guys.

• 21:17Will Arnett?

  Kevin Feige for Tracy.

• 21:19Speaker 07

  Kevin Feige and Lou Di Esposito. They're great guys. I really love them and they they really care about the movies, you know, but sometimes they get over, you know, I mean, like they've they're trying to get things all back on path. They got overwhelmed with, you know, Disney coming out with streaming and then saying we needed a million things this year.

• 21:38Will Arnett?

  Right.

• 21:39Speaker 07

  And it just became too much to quality control.

• 21:41Sean Hayes?

  So when you have something-

• 21:42Will Arnett?

  Well, that goes into what we were talking about. Sorry, Sean, just the idea that like, hey, we've got this huge streaming service. We need to feed this machine. Give us product. And instead of going like, hey, let us finish the product and then-

• 21:55Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 21:56Will Arnett?

  Right? They kind of backed that.

• 21:57Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 21:57Will Arnett?

  I mean, it's nobody's fault. They're trying to run a business and so whatever.

• 22:00Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 22:00Will Arnett?

  But it creates it creates that quality control issue that you that you alluded to.

• 22:05Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 22:06Sean Hayes?

  How do you, when we were talking about it at dinner, when we had dinner about Superman, you were just into casting or something like that.

• 22:11Speaker 07

  Wow, yeah.

• 22:12Sean Hayes?

  And Sean, by the way.

• 22:13Will Arnett?

  Or something like that.

• 22:14Sean Hayes?

  Yeah. Sean, what part did you read for? I read for Superman.

• 22:19Will Arnett?

  Did you?

• 22:19Sean Hayes?

  No way to hear us.

• 22:20Speaker 07

  He tested. It was down to him in corn sweat.

• 22:23Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, and I came in, I came in a motion capture suit and I just didn't think that was right.

• 22:29Will Arnett?

  When when were you ever, when have you ever been in motion? What are they capturing? Like you go into the fridge, they're gonna capture that motion?

• 22:37Sean Hayes?

  I don't want people to miss a beat.

• 22:38Will Arnett?

  Watching Jeopardy?

• 22:39Sean Hayes?

  It's so interesting when I move my body. It's forever interesting.

• 22:44Sean Hayes?

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• 25:17Sean Hayes?

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• 26:31Sean Hayes?

  All right, back to the show.

• 26:35Sean Hayes?

  No, but James, so when I heard about, even before we had dinner, when I heard about they, meaning you and DC, were doing Superman again, how do you, this is like clunky, obvious question, but how do you approach a new take on it that we haven't seen? And what is going to be different? And what do you, because when I first read it, I was like, wait, they're doing it again? You know, and then I see the trailer. I'm like, oh, my God, I have to see that movie. It looks, it looks amazing, but you know.

• 27:03Speaker 07

  Well, I didn't. I mean, again, it was a thing of they came to me with Superman, you know, many years ago. And I, I was like, I don't know. I just had a hard time imagining what it was going to be. And Peter Safran, who's been my partner, he was started out as my manager in 1998 and has since become my producing partner. You know, it's his dream. It was his dream to make a Superman movie, always. And so he was always bringing it up, always just bullying with me, bullying me about it. And eventually, you know, I just kind of kept playing it in my head. It was like a math problem I'm trying to solve. Like, how could Superman work?

• 27:47Speaker 07

  And then I finally started to see it. And it was the culmination of a couple of things. Number one, that I read, I reread an old comic book I really like a lot called All-Star Superman.

• 28:02Speaker 07

  And it had a sort of Silver Age, yet grounded, classically, sort of science, old school science fiction, but again, really grounded characters and, and deep moral issues around the character of Superman. And I saw how that wouldn't be the story that I could tell, but I could just rip off the way that comic book was.

• 28:25Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 28:25Speaker 07

  Grant Morrison and Frank Quiley and Jamie Grant, that book. So I think that was part of it. And then, just kind of just playing around with ideas and coming into it. And then I got this stupid dog, Ozu, who was destroying all my stuff. And I thought, oh my God, what if this dog had superpowers? My life would be destroyed. My, my house would look like it.

• 28:46Jason Bateman?

  Wait a second, your real, your real dog is the name of the dog that's in the film?

• 28:49Speaker 07

  No, my dog's name is Ozu.

• 28:51Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 28:51Speaker 07

  But he is what Crypto is 3D modeled based upon, so.

• 28:57Jason Bateman?

  Crypto's the name of the dog in the film?

• 28:58Speaker 07

  Crypto's the name of the dog. Yeah, he's a, he's Superman's super dog from the comics. And he's never been in the movies. And so.

• 29:05Jason Bateman?

  That's so great that he's in there.

• 29:06Will Arnett?

  Do you, do you, you know, you, you talked about, and Sean, you mentioned like, well, you know, Superman, everybody's familiar with that character. And there is something about, and maybe you can sort of shed some light on this, people keep returning to these characters, specifically these superhero characters, comic book characters that they like. And people, and, and for some reason, they continue to resonate. And I know with this new Superman, I, I'd read that you were trying to, you know, do something that, that sort of painted a nicer, sort of kinder vision of the world, right? Where, where there was more good happening. And especially we're living in complicated times, I'll just say that.

• 29:44Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 29:44Will Arnett?

  Is, is that important for you to get that kind of message through in all of these films?

• 29:50Speaker 07

  Uh, that's not always where I'm at with something. But with this film, I was. I said to the cast when we sat down for our, you know, meal before we started, that this is a movie about goodness.

• 30:03Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 07

  And it isn't about a world that's kind. The world in Superman is. As unkind as our world in many ways, but Superman is kind.

• 30:11Will Arnett?

  Right.

• 30:12Speaker 07

  And that's his real superpower. And that's, you know, the fact that he doesn't balk from that, that there isn't an ironic flip on the fact that he's kind, that he's just straight up kind. It's not a joke. We're not making fun of him. And that's, you know, he is a rebel and his, you know, his rebelliousness, you know, manifests itself in just kindness and goodness and love.

• 30:36Will Arnett?

  I love, I love that message. I think that that's really, I remember saying to one of my sons a few years ago, I said, he was talking and he said, it's quite personal, but he said, you know, Dad, I feel like I'm really sensitive. And I said, that is your superpower in this world.

• 30:52Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 30:52Will Arnett?

  And the world will try to take that away from you. And don't let them take that away. Lean into that. That is the true, true superpower that you have.

• 31:01Speaker 07

  Man, that's great dad stuff to say. That's really great. That's beautiful.

• 31:04Will Arnett?

  Well, it's true. I think, I think it's really true. And I think that that gets lost on us. I think that there was, you know, that traditionally it was much more about, you know, if somebody comes at you, hit them back harder and don't take no shit from nobody and punch them in the nose and all that kind of stuff. And it's like, you know, look where that gets us.

• 31:21Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 31:22Will Arnett?

  You know?

• 31:22Speaker 07

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 31:23Will Arnett?

  And I think, so I love the idea that you, that you, at the center of it, you have a superhero who, not to spend too much time on Superman, I know, but, but, but just that, that that was important to you.

• 31:34Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. It was very important. And I think it's really, you know, I think that was why I struggled with the character because I've normally written these characters that are sort of the opposite of that in some ways. Characters like, you know, you know, Rocket and from Rocket Raccoon, from those movies and Starlord and Peacemaker, who are these blustery, angry individuals who, you know, at their heart, they're good, but it takes this work to get to who they are.

• 32:04Will Arnett?

  Right.

• 32:04Speaker 07

  And that's, that's what the stories are about. And I think that's what my life was about up until that point because I was like that. But I think that this comes to me at a certain, different point in my life where I am more okay with just being kind.

• 32:16Sean Hayes?

  You know, it's so funny.

• 32:17Will Arnett?

  Isn't that funny? Is, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry, you're talking about Instagram.

• 32:21Sean Hayes?

  No, I was on Instagram.

• 32:26Will Arnett?

  You saw something fun. We're having a real conversation. Talk about the thing you saw on Instagram.

• 32:30Sean Hayes?

  No, because it is so left, so keep going with yours. Keep going.

• 32:36Jason Bateman?

  Because I'd love to double back just on what the button is in the bottom right hand corner, but when we get there.

• 32:42Sean Hayes?

  I was gonna say.

• 32:44Will Arnett?

  Yeah, you go.

• 32:45Sean Hayes?

  In my Instagram feed.

• 32:47Jason Bateman?

  I want you two to fight so bad.

• 32:48Sean Hayes?

  In my Instagram feed, of course, is my algorithm, but a video came up the other day about you and the movie and about whether you should put tights on Superman or not.

• 32:57Speaker 07

  Oh, no, no, it's the shorts.

• 32:59Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, the shorts or whatever it is.

• 33:01Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's the trunks.

• 33:03Sean Hayes?

  I thought it was hilarious that there was this whole conversation about should he have trunks, should he not have trunks?

• 33:08Speaker 07

  Oh, you don't even understand.

• 33:11Jason Bateman?

  Walk us through it. We got time.

• 33:12Speaker 07

  Somebody, I am sure that somebody would kill somebody else over the fight over whether Superman should have trunks or not.

• 33:21Sean Hayes?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 33:21Speaker 07

  So I wasn't aware of this conversation until I came onto the movie and I started trying to design the Superman suit. And the truth is Superman always had trunks in the comics. Do they make sense? I mean, sort of. They existed because when Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster first created the character, he was like a wrestling guy or a circus strongman. So he has these trunks on over his costume. And, uh, but then Zack Snyder came in and that was like the dark, more, you know, mean, cool version of Superman. And he didn't have trunk. He took away the trunks. And so when Zack took away the trunks, there were tons of fans that were outraged.

• 34:04Sean Hayes?

  Sure.

• 34:04Speaker 07

  There are people that spend all the, you know, we think our world is divided in terms of Republicans and Democrats. And then everybody's fighting about that stuff.

• 34:13Sean Hayes?

  About trunks.

• 34:14Speaker 07

  That's because you, you don't. There are whole factions of people that know, don't even know, barely know who Donald Trump is. And all they care about is whether Superman has trunks or not.

• 34:24Will Arnett?

  Can I tell you, I had a, I had a small taste of that over the years when I, when I, I did the voice for Lego Batman in the Lego movies and the Lego Batman movie.

• 34:37Speaker 08

  He's a really great character.

• 34:40Jason Bateman?

  Sorry, inside joke, James, just bear with us.

• 34:43Will Arnett?

  I get it. Um, I tried to do Lego Batman in the back of the theater as the dude. Um, but, but I remember I, I got dragged in over the last sort of 10, whatever it's been since I first did it. 10 years and all these, and I get speaking of Instagram, tagged in these arguments about who's the best Batman. And I'm telling you, it's twice a week, huge, and, and thousands of opinions and things about, and specific things. I'm like, it's a whole.

• 35:10Jason Bateman?

  It means something. Yeah, it means something to people.

• 35:12Will Arnett?

  It means something. It's everything.

• 35:13Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, it is. It's crazy.

• 35:15Speaker 07

  It's, it's like a religion to some people. And I don't, I mean, that, that, it may not be the healthiest thing for a person. So, I mean, but it's a, it, it's an issue. And so, yeah, people keep arguing about the trunks. And then I, I came out and our Superman has trunks because, and I really couldn't decide, but David Corin Sweat was like, you know what? This is a guy who can fly around. David Corin Sweat plays Superman. He can fly around. He shoots beams out of his eyes. He can do all these scary things. He's an alien from outer space, but he really wants kids to like him. So he's gonna wear this, you know, sort of garish, colorful costume.

• 35:50Will Arnett?

  Kids love short shorts. Kids love shorts.

• 35:53Speaker 07

  They aren't that short. They're trunks. They're trunks.

• 35:55Jason Bateman?

  It doesn't, isn't it, isn't it born from kind of a practical purpose to kind of, uh, keep things somewhat discreet on our superhero? Because he's wearing some clingy outfits, uh, there, uh, one clingy outfit. And he needs, he needs another layer. Am I wrong? I mean, otherwise we're gonna see his religion.

• 36:12Speaker 07

  Well, I, I think that you could design the pants so that they don't outline the ball sack.

• 36:18Jason Bateman?

  I don't know, Jay. I don't know. It's difficult.

• 36:20Will Arnett?

  Jamie, you're, you're worried that, that kids are gonna see the super package. Is that what you're talking about?

• 36:24Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, the guy's got a real pronounced helmet. You've got an issue.

• 36:29Jason Bateman?

  Guys, these are things you gotta consider when in pre-production with the costume fitting, okay?

• 36:34Sean Hayes?

  I think it's a smart move. You just attracted an entire new audience.

• 36:37Will Arnett?

  By the way, we're talking about these people in the abstract. These people who have an opinion. Sean says, I see it. The reason it came up in his algorithm is because Sean, when Sean is on the verge, Sean and his husband Scotty are like super nerds and these are the kind of conversations that they have over dinner. Like, I could see that you guys going like, did you hear that?

• 36:54Sean Hayes?

  We actually really do.

• 36:56Will Arnett?

  Like, in between bites of sloppy joe, the trunks, he's not gonna do the trunks.

• 37:00Sean Hayes?

  We do. Sometimes we do. About Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and stuff like that. We do have conversations like that.

• 37:05Will Arnett?

  I know.

• 37:06Sean Hayes?

  All right, so wait.

• 37:07Will Arnett?

  Thank god you found each other. Can I just say that?

• 37:10Sean Hayes?

  I know, by the way. I know. God, who could handle any of this? So, um...

• 37:15Will Arnett?

  We're gonna have dinner tonight, by the way. Sean and Scotty and I.

• 37:18Sean Hayes?

  Is that on?

• 37:18Will Arnett?

  Yeah, it's on. But can I just make this one? Just no cosplay. Can we just say that tonight? Because I don't want one of you showing up to see three B O or some shit.

• 37:28Sean Hayes?

  It's gonna be boring. So wait, so James, you had this like, you know, Scooby Doo and the sequel and Slither and all these things. And then, do you feel like Guardians was, how did that come about? And do you feel like that was the thing that kind of launched you to the next level?

• 37:41Speaker 07

  Oh, I mean, without a doubt. It was like, I had actually told my agents that I didn't wanna focus on film anymore. Actually, this relates to some of the stuff we were talking about in the beginning. I said, "You know, it's like, no movies are taken seriously. They aren't a part of the cultural conversation, unless it's like a Hulk movie or a Marvel movie or something. I'm making these lower budget films. Like, they just aren't resonating." You know, I had just signed a deal to do another TV pilot, which I had always done. And I was like, you know, it seems like the really creative space for writers these days and even directors is in television. That's where you can kind of do what you want. Television has taken the place of the art film in a lot of ways.

• 38:26Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 38:27Speaker 07

  So, I said, "I am going to just focus on television." I had also just done a video game, which I had a lot of fun doing. I'm gonna focus on creating TV and video games. And, um... And it was then that Marvel called and said, we want you to come in and meet about this thing. And I was like, oh, I have to drive down. They were in Manhattan Beach at the time. I was in Studio City. I'm like, oh, my God, I gotta drive through this terrible traffic.

• 38:53Will Arnett?

  Such a great LA response. You should, by the way, and next time you got a big drive, next time you got a big drive, go to Jason's Instagram and he'll give you an update.

• 39:00Speaker 07

  Yeah, he's got the Instagram page with the cool, the cool traffic site.

• 39:04Jason Bateman?

  This, this is before the Zoom revolution of COVID, right?

• 39:07Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, this was before Zoom, exactly right. And so I'm like, you know, I'm like, I don't even want to go. I had met with them before about stuff. So it wasn't like I was getting the call. And so I went in there and I sat down and they told me about Guardians of the Galaxy. And they showed me this pre, you know, art they had done. And it looked to me like Bugs Bunny in the middle of the Avengers. And I'm like, I don't know about this stupid. So it's like,

• 39:38Speaker 07

  I was like, I don't, I don't know. And I, I was driving home in the traffic.

• 39:45Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 39:46Speaker 07

  So maybe I should be grateful.

• 39:47Will Arnett?

  Now it's worse. Yeah, now it's late afternoon. It's traffic. You gotta go over the four, go over the hill.

• 39:52Speaker 07

  Yeah, I had to think and listen to music because there was no Instagram where I couldn't Instagram myself doing it. And I, and I was going, you know what, you know, okay, so you're thinking that this raccoon is a drawback. But what if this raccoon was real? Like, how would this raccoon come to be?

• 40:14Jason Bateman?

  You need to like get fucking Bradley Cooper or something like that, you know, make it happen.

• 40:18Speaker 07

  So I imagine like, what if this raccoon was real? And I'm like, oh, my God, this raccoon would be the saddest creature in the universe. He's created in a Petri dish, basically. He doesn't, you know, has nothing like him in the universe. He's completely alone. And so it was that was sort of the soul of the movie. And then I started thinking how much I loved Star Wars when I was a little kid and what Star Wars meant to me. And I, I thought that I could create that. Um, not by, you know, mimicking Star Wars, but making Star Wars for what would work with kids today.

• 40:52Will Arnett?

  Yeah.

• 40:52Speaker 07

  So bringing some of the color back. What would, you know, when I walked into the supermarket and saw C3PO and Chewbacca on the cover of People Magazine, I was like, oh my God, who are those guys? That's so cool. I knew that I could do that.

• 41:04Will Arnett?

  Yeah.

• 41:05Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, for sure. And you did it. And you, you like, what a mission accomplished times 10.

• 41:09Will Arnett?

  And by the way, Jason, you mentioned the music. I mean, I, I read that you, James, of course, like a lot of directors, you, you chose all the music, but not only you choose the music for your movies, the soundtracks became like huge hits as albums.

• 41:22Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 41:23Will Arnett?

  Like platinum selling albums.

• 41:25Speaker 07

  Yeah, I have platinum albums up in my house. It's so weird.

• 41:27Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, but, yeah, exactly. Like introducing a, a sort of a new level of, um, uh, uh, intrigue and draw to, to, to what was typically Marvel's sort of like, well, we're gonna throw a bunch of effects at it and it's gonna be really exciting CGI, but you're putting in this subversive element too that exists with the music and with lighting and editorial pace and all that stuff. Like you really kind of, you cooled it up and you hip it up and it became a whole different lane in Marvel.

• 41:56Speaker 07

  Yeah. I think it was like, and with the music, it was really like, I'm creating this space opera with all these characters that people don't know and it's totally wacky and weird. So how do you ground this in the, you know, coolest way possible? And I'm like, well, 70s AM pop would work perfectly over somebody dancing through, you know, the, an alien graveyard.

• 42:15Jason Bateman?

  So cool.

• 42:16Will Arnett?

  Can I just tell you, just apropos of nothing, how, how excited I was because, uh, uh, I love Chris Pratt and, and I have for a long time.

• 42:26Speaker 07

  This guy.

• 42:27Will Arnett?

  This guy.

• 42:28Jason Bateman?

  He's a bravo.

• 42:29Speaker 07

  What a talent.

• 42:31Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, he's amazing. I love him.

• 42:32Will Arnett?

  The character is a guy, he's an Italian guy. He's in the back of the theater, James, and I'm sorry. It's funny to only three of us. So, so, and I remember when, when Pratt first did Parks and Rec, I remember the first season and I was like, and he was a, he was a recurring character and I was like, this dude is so fucking funny. Yeah. Uh, I just, I just loved him from, from moment one. So then when all of a sudden he was doing this, I remember when he got the film, the first Guardians movie and I just thought like, yes, the world's not gonna know what to do with Chris Pratt, cause this dude is so funny, so talented. Yeah. He, he can't even help. It's hard to find that guy. He's one of those guys, he can't help being funny. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

• 43:14Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, he's, he's, I, I, I, I text him all the time because, you know, I'm doing, you know, all sorts of, uh, you know, press junket stuff and things like that. And I love doing press junkets with the guys I'm doing it with, with the, you know, with the Superman cast and with, uh, John Cena from Peacemaker and all that, but man.

• 43:30Will Arnett?

  Which I wanna get into, yeah, yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 07

  Chris and I used to have such a great time on those things.

• 43:35Will Arnett?

  Would you guys pair yourselves together?

• 43:37Speaker 07

  All the time.

• 43:38Will Arnett?

  Yeah.

• 43:39Speaker 07

  Yeah, but it was like, it just became these giggle fest where we just really sang.

• 43:43Will Arnett?

  It's so, yeah, I, I had the luxury of doing, uh, press junkets for a couple of years on the Lego stuff with Chris and it was some of the most fun I've ever had in showbiz was actually doing press tours because we laughed our asses off. He'll drop the dirtiest joke, like the dirtiest bomb. And you're like, wait, what? Makes me laugh so hard. So, so good. So you mentioned the Peacemaker, so, so you're directing all these movies and then you went back for it now, and now you're co-chairman and CEO of DC Studios and then you're directing the new Superman movie, which is, as we all know, directing of it just take the years and the hours and the time and the life and blah blah. And in there, you're, you created this show, The Peacemaker with John Cena, which you, you wrote a bunch

• 44:27Will Arnett?

  of episodes, you've been like.

• 44:29Speaker 07

  Well, I wrote, I created Peacemaker two years ago. So Peacemaker, or whatever, four years ago, Peacemaker originated on HBO Max a few years ago. It was the number one show on HBO Max ever. And, um, then I committed to a second season. Um, and so it's.

• 44:46Speaker 07

  My favorite cast, and I love these guys. And so I was supposed to do a second season. Then I got the job as the head of DC Studios. I was halfway through doing this animated show called Creature Commandos. And so like in a space of, I had to, I had to get into Superman first. So my second call after, you know, right before I got the job was announced, was to John Cena saying, I'm gonna do Peacemaker, but I just have to hold a beat because I gotta get Superman, right? And so, yeah, in a year, I wrote 650 pages of material. And then the next year, I produced and directed 650 pages of material.

• 45:30Speaker 07

  And this year, we're releasing 650 pages.

• 45:33Jason Bateman?

  So tell us what your day is like. What time do you get up typically in the morning, truthfully?

• 45:39Speaker 07

  Ten o'clock. No, no, that's not true. But I get up pretty, I don't get up that early. It just...

• 45:44Jason Bateman?

  So you stay up late?

• 45:46Speaker 07

  I stay up late, but my, my times fluctuate wildly. So like when I'm writing, I try to have as little schedule as possible because it's just the writings in my brain all the time. So during that 650 pages, when I'm just writing out of pure panic in a lot of ways. But then when I get to the page, it's working, you know? And then I step outside of the page and I'm terrified. Step back into the page and it's working. Step outside of the page and I'm terrified. And so I just had to keep writing and writing and writing. And that was going on constantly, you know? And I, that was actually the busiest time was the writing of it. Because, you know, when you're shooting, it's much more structured. And then I have to go into post-production and all that stuff.

• 46:26Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Jason Bateman?

  We'll be right back.

• 46:32Sean Hayes?

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• 47:11Sean Hayes?

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• 47:54Sean Hayes?

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• 48:26Sean Hayes?

  Can we talk about something embarrassing besides the sound of my voice? Imagine you're at lunch. The server brings a Coca-Cola Zero Sugar while the food is still on the way. You think, "Just a sip while I wait for my chili dog." So you take that sip, but suddenly, you can't stop drinking that delicious ice-cold Coke Zero. The food arrives, and you're just sitting there, emotionally unprepared, waiting for a life-saving refill. Real Coca-Cola taste with zero sugar? It's hard to resist. Coca-Cola Zero Sugar: Too Good to Wait. Enjoy the delicious taste of Coca-Cola Zero Sugar today.

• 49:07Jason Bateman?

  And now, back to the show.

• 49:10Jason Bateman?

  You obviously love the creative process so much because you're so deeply involved in it and doing so much of it. What was it like when you got that call to have one of the most prestigious, elite jobs you could ever imagine? You know, partly running one of the biggest studios in the history of the... So like, that's an executive job. And for the listener, like, it's wildly different to be the people that push the button, that make it all happen, versus the people that are on the set that actually make it. And so you're doing both. How did that land for you?

• 49:50Speaker 07

  It was cool. I was happy. It wasn't as pure of a joy as, say, when I got the first Guardians movie, because that was me doing something I knew how to do.

• 50:00Jason Bateman?

  Right.

• 50:01Speaker 07

  This was kind of creating a new job that hasn't existed.

• 50:05Jason Bateman?

  Right.

• 50:06Speaker 07

  Because there hasn't ever been a creative in the position of studio head.

• 50:11Will Arnett?

  Which is insane.

• 50:12Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:12Will Arnett?

  Which is insane. If you think about it, right? That sentence that you just uttered is quite crazy, don't you think?

• 50:17Jason Bateman?

  Yeah. It's crazy, meaning that it hasn't happened yet.

• 50:20Will Arnett?

  Yes.

• 50:20Jason Bateman?

  Because you would think, you would want a creative person to be the oversight person of the creative process. Right? Right, right.

• 50:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, I guess, yeah. But also, you do need to manage a lot of stuff, so there's part of it. And that's what, I would never do the job without Peter Safran.

• 50:35Will Arnett?

  Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, to the extent that, like, and JB, going off what you just said, which is, I remember years ago, being, and this is on a much, much smaller scale, but being in a meeting, in a casting meeting for a TV show with a bunch of executives from a TV studio that does, from back then, this is 25 years ago. And I was in, I was, I'd already been cast in the thing, and I go in, and we read a bunch of people for this other part. And one of the people who runs the studio, who one of the people, executives, after the person leaves like, "Yeah, yeah, I think he's good, I think..." And they're having, he's having this conversation. He's driving the conversation about the creative of this casting of this actor.

• 51:18Will Arnett?

  And this guy literally was a fucking bean counter. Quite literally, had been an accountant. And he's the one making the decision on the thing. That's lunacy.

• 51:28Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's why most things aren't good. Yeah, there used to be a, something called the creative committee at Marvel. And it was, you know, comic book people and toy people and all these people that would chime in with their notes on scripts. And I think that's fine, that, you know, they, they give notes. Because, you know, one of the things that you hear all these people being afraid of notes all the time, but you don't, usually you don't have to use them. You just have to listen to them. And people are usually happy if you just listen. If you listen and then you say, "I don't know because of this," they're usually okay. Yeah. Um, but they were a little bit, acted as if they were, uh, you know, the authority on everything.

• 52:12Speaker 07

  And so Kevin and I would, you know, we'd be working on Guardians of the Galaxy and we'd have that, you know, final screenplay. And then all of a sudden, we'd get these lists of things that needed to be changed. And it always felt to me, like I was watching that show, The Nick, at the time, when they used to do, you know, operations and they'd have the audience members there. And it felt like a couple of brain surgeons performing brain surgery and having a bunch of podiatrists around telling you how to do it.

• 52:41Speaker 07

  And it was just like, you know, I mean, they told me to take the songs out. You know, when they saw the first cut and Bradley was doing Rocket's voice as a character, they're like, "Why do we pay all this money without..." He doesn't sound like Bradley Cooper. I'm like, "Yeah, he's playing a character, he's an actor, that's what the guy does." That's why we hired him. Right. And it was just a list of, you know, things that they just had nothing to do with storytelling, nothing to do with what would capture people's imaginations. Right. And just whatever their peculiarities were.

• 53:11Jason Bateman?

  So you thought with this with this opportunity maybe would come not a sea change in what the executive ranks would look like, but at least you would be able to influence this this studio in a direction that made a little bit more sense?

• 53:25Speaker 07

  I thought it gave me an opportunity. First of all, I thought it was cool because DC was breaking off from Warner Brothers and becoming its own studio, which was awesome. That had never been done. You know, Marvel's still under Disney. And then, secondly, I thought it was an opportunity to try something that had never been done before, which was to create a cohesive universe, but also a cohesive brand that was about quality. And I only am going to be on this earth for so long, so why does, you know, might as well put everything into it. It's an opportunity that just has never existed for anyone, ever. So how could I say no to that? My wife wishes I had. But, you know, how could I say no to that?

• 54:07Jason Bateman?

  But did you, but but that presupposes that you're able to have a certain amount of authority and and and influence. What kind of, to the extent you're comfortable sharing? Were you given assurances that made you think, well, there's a possibility I could actually do this?

• 54:24Speaker 07

  Oh, I knew that we could. Yeah, yeah. Because the only person we answer to is David Zaslove. And David Zaslove has, he tells us if he likes something or he doesn't like something, but he doesn't have any sort of say or interest in saying, it's not that he doesn't have any say. If he wanted to, I guess he could, but he doesn't have any interest in saying this story A and story. He's the opposite of the guy Will was talking about.

• 54:45Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, he seems very deferential to the to the creatives. We love David.

• 54:49Will Arnett?

  Zaz gets it. Yeah, yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 07

  Yeah, so he's not, you know, he doesn't think that he knows how to do that, you know? One of the most terrifying calls ever was, you know, I had done the screen test with David Cornswit and Rachel Brosnahan. And, you know, and they were so freaking good together. And I loved them and Peter loved them and Chantal, our executive producer, loved them. And I sent the tape off to Dave and I said, here's our two choices. Here's what we want to do. And David called me up and he goes, and he sounds really dour. And he goes, You know, I have to preface this by saying, this isn't what I do. This isn't what I, I know, you know, I'm not a movie business guy and, you know,

• 55:36Speaker 07

  movie creator, I'm not a storyteller like you are. I, this is just coming from a place of me as a person. And then he stopped and he goes, "I fucking love it!" And it was, that was.

• 55:49Will Arnett?

  That's great, that's great.

• 55:50Speaker 07

  Like you're an asshole.

• 55:52Will Arnett?

  What a cool dude, what a cool dude. I, um, so then James, now, just to kind of switch gears a little bit. Uh, so you're doing all this stuff and, and of course, we're all kind of, all of our, our, our ships are, are pointed into the, the headwind of AI. And what kind of effect it's going to have on the future of film and stuff. And, uh, we've kind of been asking everybody a little bit. You guys must be at the sort of the tip of the spear when it comes to filmmaking and, and the, you know, where it intersects with AI and how we can use it and what, what we need to look out for and what you think the future might, might hold for films.

• 56:29Speaker 07

  Uh, I hated when we were going through all the, the guild dispute stuff and AI was the big part of it because we're just not quite there at that point yet with writing and acting. And so like there were all these important issues that we needed to talk about. And it's like AI, the splashy thing is making all the headlines. All my friends online are getting upset about AI stuff. And I'm like, guys, really? Look at what's happening. This isn't a, a real thing in this moment. You know, I have a, you know, a stunt, stunty friend who's like, uh, "They're gonna use my body and they have the rights to my body." I'm like, "They don't want your body. They want the body of the guy that, the actor that you play."

• 57:09Will Arnett?

  Right.

• 57:09Speaker 07

  But I do, I think it's in, in, in the, in the moment, it's a problem for, uh, the low level jobs, which is where I, I feel the most compassion. Um, by say, with VFX.

• 57:23Speaker 07

  All the people that do all the rotoscoping and all these sort of more tedious jobs, that is going to be replaced by AI in the next couple of years, certainly. And I don't think there's anything we can do about that. I don't think there's any way that a studio is going to say, yeah, let's spend an extra forty million dollars on this movie.

• 57:44Will Arnett?

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, I think just setting aside the actual replacement of jobs and people, et cetera. The actual end product is different in this, in our case. It's, and each one is, is, is unique. Each, each sort of, you know, entertainment is, is going to be what you actually consume, which is what you want to consume, original entertainment. That has the potential to be created by AI, JB. I think that's the, that's my sort of question.

• 58:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, but I mean, it's so, it is a little bit of ways right now. So it's, you've got to do a lot of stuff. I mean, it's, it's, you know, the things that you're watching are eight second clips of things. And even then, if you put, you know, get into a cab, you're suddenly getting into the front seat of the cab, you know?

• 58:30Will Arnett?

  Right, right.

• 58:30Speaker 07

  So it's, you gotta, it's, there, there, there is artistry and work behind AI. I've played with it a lot. It's fun to play with. And, but I, so I don't really know. I'm not the fucking fortune teller, but I do, I am very aware of what the present problems are.

• 58:47Will Arnett?

  I thought you were a fucking fortune teller.

• 58:49Speaker 07

  The other, but the other pro, for me, kind of the bigger problem, especially in the VFX industry, is that all the people that do the jobs that are going to remain, you know, the, you know, a lot of the animators are actually like, almost like technical actors, because they're creating the actions of these characters, the way they move. And the people, the training ground for those jobs is gone now.

• 59:17Speaker 07

  So how do you learn how to be those people? How does the next generation of people come about? And I think that's pretty much going to be true in every industry. So the double problem is where do all these people go? That have these other jobs in a world that's already doesn't have enough jobs? And then how do the people train to get to the next level? Doesn't that mean that we're instantly going to have more ill-trained people at the top? At next level?

• 59:43Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, I do think though that there's probably, there's probably going to be a big audience that doesn't care about, I'm sorry, talking about writers. There's going to be great writers and then there's going to be a huge part of the audience that doesn't care about the beginning, middle and end so much, just as long as there is one. It doesn't matter how good it is, as long as there's car chases and explosions, they'll show up, even if the whole thing is totally AI.

• 1:00:05Will Arnett?

  God, I wish Gotti would walk by in the background right now.

• 1:00:08Speaker 07

  I, I, I think maybe that's true. I mean, I don't know though. I mean, it depends on how developed it gets, you know? Because remember, AI is eating its own tail.

• 1:00:19Sean Hayes?

  That's right.

• 1:00:20Speaker 07

  It does, it's not feeding, it can't create something new. It's really just creating amalgamations.

• 1:00:27Sean Hayes?

  But I'm saying, but I'm saying, yes, but I'm saying there's an audience for that. That they don't care.

• 1:00:33Speaker 07

  Where it will be in the next few years, I don't think that's true. I think that what you get out of that is you get a Hallmark movie.

• 1:00:40Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. There's an audience for Hallmark movies.

• 1:00:43Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah, yeah, there's an audience for Hallmark movies, but you can't make, you know, a billion dollars at the box office with a Hallmark movie and you can't really afford to make movies no matter what.

• 1:00:51Jason Bateman?

  Hopefully, hopefully there's a benefit from the, from the, that, that, that entry level part of the process that, that may become automated. Hopefully that will potentially save enough money for the industry that it'll then be reinvested into the industry and help the financial health of the industry get, get, get, get stood up again. Because right now, there's, there's, there's a, there's a bit of a constraint going on in our industry, right? There's, there's, there's a lack of work, there's a lack of product, studios are making less film. Because it's becoming more and more expensive to sell them and make them. Hopefully, this will allow that financial help to come back to the industry.

• 1:01:34Jason Bateman?

  And then put all these people back to work again, maybe in some other job. But maybe there'll be more product being made. I mean, maybe that's Pollyanna, but hopefully it will.

• 1:01:44Speaker 07

  I don't think, I mean, I think that your basic point is absolutely. True, I mean, that you can make bigger feeling movies cheaper. I mean, a movie like Superman is, you know, nearly half of its budget is in VFX.

• 1:01:58Jason Bateman?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:01:59Speaker 07

  That's, that's a lot. It's, it's a big budget film. It's not as big as, you know, you know, Guardians three or, you know, these other things, but, but a lot of that's the actors, you know.

• 1:02:11Will Arnett?

  I think, I think JB, I think you're right. It's either, either that is true. Or the opposite and we're doomed and it's all, it's all crashing into a fire, but.

• 1:02:19Jason Bateman?

  Look, look at the automotive industry. I, I, I don't know the numbers, but I feel like it's a healthy industry. The music industry with all of that, that big digital change that happened that, that I think that's a healthy.

• 1:02:31Speaker 07

  I think the music industry got kind of screwed. They're fucked.

• 1:02:34Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Speaker 07

  They got screwed because, yeah, the music industry had no awareness this, the streaming change was coming. And they just, they got screwed out of everything. So the writers, songwriters got screwed out of everything. You know, you know, so like one of the things I do in my spare time is I've, I've written songs and.

• 1:02:55Jason Bateman?

  Right.

• 1:02:56Speaker 07

  You know, we, I have songs that have like forty.

• 1:02:58Will Arnett?

  Spare time.

• 1:02:59Speaker 07

  Forty million hits of, you know, forty million plays on Spotify. I, I don't, I've never noticed a dollar coming in from that and I, I probably have made a few thousand dollars. But that's a few thousand dollars. That's, that's a huge song.

• 1:03:12Will Arnett?

  Yeah, it's a huge number.

• 1:03:14Speaker 07

  It's like, oh, you know, people, you know, people make today from money from today from touring, which is great. That the, the, you know, the live music industry is thriving. But in terms of musicians making money like how they used to from album sales and songs, you know, it's, it's not there.

• 1:03:30Will Arnett?

  Well, well, I, I was gonna say that, that, and the touring is, and here's for me, that. is an indicator that what people still crave is this human connection. And I think that is going to be thing that pushes back against things like.

• 1:03:44Jason Bateman?

  That's gonna be the biggest commodity.

• 1:03:45Will Arnett?

  Right. And I talked to, by the way, I had all these teenagers, my sons had their friends over all weekend. And I was asking all these guys, I was like, what do you guys think you're gonna do when you grow up? And we're having this long conversation. And one of them said, oh, I want to get into sports and I want to get into analytics and the numbers and stuff. I go, that's gone. I would pick something new because all that will be crunched by AI. I'm serious. Like, you talk about a, talk about a vocation that's not going to exist. But I do think, I do think the one thing is, is gonna be the, the desire for real human connection. That is, that is, that is gonna be a commodity that is gonna become even more exclusive.

• 1:04:24Will Arnett?

  And people will pay a premium to have a real experience, a one-on-one, a live, whatever that is, experience. And that's the good.

• 1:04:32Jason Bateman?

  So you'll show up, you'll, you'll dance for someone, right? If you get sent the right dollar amount.

• 1:04:36Will Arnett?

  OnlyFans, but an in-person OnlyFans private dance.

• 1:04:39Jason Bateman?

  Wow, that's.

• 1:04:40Will Arnett?

  Yeah, private dancer, dancing for money, any old musical.

• 1:04:43Jason Bateman?

  And Superman's trunks. You'll do it.

• 1:04:46Speaker 07

  We've fallen on bad times. I do think that a film or a television show or something that's a novel, they're all artistic expressions. And they're all a form of communication. They're all a form of one, you know, either person or group of people communicating to other people. And I think that if people feel that communication aspect is not there, that's going to be a drawback for a lot of people because there is that feeling when you're seeing a movie or seeing, watching a TV show.

• 1:05:17Jason Bateman?

  But do you, do you think that there'll be a lane of films not too dissimilar from animation, right? It's a huge section of our, of our entertainment industry, you know, Disney animation and Pixar and the like. Those don't have.

• 1:05:30Will Arnett?

  What kind of films JB? Like are there new ones coming out in the next year?

• 1:05:33Jason Bateman?

  I hear, yeah. But like, but you know, those are, those aren't actors. Those are, those are drawn figures. And so there, there's, it will be a lane, perhaps, of AI films that live next to animated films, that live next to live action films, that maybe they'll be a different price point, maybe? I don't know.

• 1:05:52Speaker 07

  Maybe, but I think it's also, what are you talking about as AI films? Are you meaning 100% generated by AI from start to finish?

• 1:05:58Jason Bateman?

  I don't know, but like whatever animation is, I mean, you have real actors that are, that are giving voice, the voice actors behind it. So there'll be a combination, I bet.

• 1:06:05Speaker 07

  It's gonna affect animation, almost certainly, you know? I mean, you know, it, it definitely will.

• 1:06:12Jason Bateman?

  Yeah. So you're in a band? You still play?

• 1:06:14Speaker 07

  No, I'm not in a band now. I don't play. I just, you know.

• 1:06:17Jason Bateman?

  Oh, I thought you were.

• 1:06:17Speaker 07

  No, I mean, I was in a band, so that's how I like.

• 1:06:20Jason Bateman?

  Oh, I didn't know if you still played, yeah.

• 1:06:22Speaker 07

  No, I still play. I still play some piano, but I still write music with, um, at various times, or, you know, like, uh, Red Miller and I wrote songs together for the Guardians of the Galaxy Christmas special. And I wrote a song with Tyler Bates for Guardians 2. I wrote stuff for Scooby Doo.

• 1:06:37Jason Bateman?

  What about scoring a film?

• 1:06:39Speaker 07

  For me, I could never do, I'm not that, I'm a punk rock kid.

• 1:06:43Will Arnett?

  What if you say, what if you say, yeah, I mean, from time to time, I'm running with.

• 1:06:46Jason Bateman?

  Johnny Greenwood can do it, you can do it.

• 1:06:47Speaker 07

  Yeah, okay. No, I couldn't. I couldn't do it.

• 1:06:50Jason Bateman?

  All right, all right.

• 1:06:52Will Arnett?

  Uh, listen, James Gunn, we could talk to you, honestly, we say this sometimes, but we could just keep going, but we've taken up way, way too much.

• 1:07:00Jason Bateman?

  Seven minutes over.

• 1:07:01Will Arnett?

  We're already over.

• 1:07:02Speaker 07

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:07:03Will Arnett?

  Uh, it's so fascinating. We're so excited. Uh, The Peacemaker, uh, comes out this summer, right?

• 1:07:08Speaker 07

  That, Peacemaker is, uh, live on, uh, August 21st on HBO Max, and there is a podcast inspired by Smartless solely, um, with, uh, me and Jennifer Holland, who plays Harcourt, who also happens to be my wife, and Steve Agee, who plays Economos, and, uh, and then many guest stars from Daniel Brooks to John Cena and so forth.

• 1:07:32Jason Bateman?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:07:32Speaker 07

  And that takes place, uh, twice a week up until the release that we go over every single episode of Peacemaker.

• 1:07:38Jason Bateman?

  That's great, that's great.

• 1:07:39Will Arnett?

  Oh, that's fun. That's cool. All right. So that's available now. That, the podcast is available now. What's the podcast called?

• 1:07:44Speaker 07

  Uh, I believe it's called Peacemaker, the official podcast with James Gunn. It's a wonderful.

• 1:07:49Will Arnett?

  And how'd you guys come up with that?

• 1:07:51Speaker 07

  I don't know. That was a, a creative committee of sorts came up with it. By AI.

• 1:07:57Jason Bateman?

  Please tell, please tell Jennifer I say hello. It was so nice meeting her when I saw her.

• 1:08:01Speaker 07

  Oh, I will. Absolutely, Sean. Yeah, she loved you and Scott. And Scott's same as Scott, by the way.

• 1:08:05Jason Bateman?

  I will, I will, yeah.

• 1:08:07Will Arnett?

  Well, fantastic. Well, continued success. We're so happy that we have a creative like you at the, at the helm of at least one of the studios and, and you're just doing an awesome job. And we're all, I'm such a fan. I'm gonna say, I know we all are, and it's just been such a joy to have you.

• 1:08:22Jason Bateman?

  Likewise.

• 1:08:23Sean Hayes?

  Pleasure to meet you. Say hi to Peter, too.

• 1:08:25Speaker 07

  I will. Thanks, guys. Nice to meet you, Jason. Take care, guys.

• 1:08:28Jason Bateman?

  Pleasure.

• 1:08:28Will Arnett?

  Thank you, James.

• 1:08:29Jason Bateman?

  Bye, buddy.

• 1:08:30Speaker 07

  Bye.

• 1:08:32Jason Bateman?

  Very nice.

• 1:08:33Will Arnett?

  How cool.

• 1:08:34Jason Bateman?

  That's pretty cool. I mean, we had Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdi on a while ago over there at Warner Brothers as well. That's pretty cool.

• 1:08:44Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, I love, I love talking about the, like, the different opinions of people in our business where they think it's gonna go because of AI. Everybody has a different kind of take or angle about like...

• 1:08:55Jason Bateman?

  These guys have their, their hand on the lever, too. Like, they'll tell you exactly where it's going.

• 1:08:59Will Arnett?

  My favorite quote from today's episode is Jason going like, "I don't know for sure, but I feel like the auto industry is doing well."

• 1:09:08Jason Bateman?

  Well, isn't it?

• 1:09:10Will Arnett?

  Just pure speculation.

• 1:09:14Jason Bateman?

  And I said that about music, too. And he's like, "Yeah, no."

• 1:09:17Will Arnett?

  No, it's not true.

• 1:09:18Jason Bateman?

  I was like, "Okay, sorry. What do I know?"

• 1:09:22Will Arnett?

  The music industry is crushing it. Okay.

• 1:09:26Jason Bateman?

  I see a bunch of cars on the road, James. I'm hearing music.

• 1:09:31Will Arnett?

  I can't stop noticing cars. I was in a car today.

• 1:09:36Jason Bateman?

  You don't wanna come to us for what's going on.

• 1:09:38Sean Hayes?

  No, no, no. But he was great, though. I love, I love his stuff. I didn't know Supergirl was a thing. I didn't know that. He's got that coming out after Superman. I'll watch both of those. Don't you think it should be Superwoman, though? Anyway.

• 1:09:53Jason Bateman?

  Oh, yeah, instead of Superboy.

• 1:09:54Will Arnett?

  Just fucking get online and start fighting with people.

• 1:09:57Jason Bateman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:59Sean Hayes?

  Yeah, but it should be. But Willie, so I'm gonna see you tonight for dinner, for sure?

• 1:10:03Will Arnett?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Sean Hayes?

  All right, so I'm gonna see you there.

• 1:10:07Jason Bateman?

  For a quick bye.

• 1:10:11Will Arnett?

  Bye tonight.

• 1:10:14Sean Hayes?

  That's not where I was going, but sure, that's good.

• 1:10:16Will Arnett?

  Bye, 7 o'clock.

• 1:10:17Sean Hayes?

  That's what it was.

• 1:10:31Will Arnett?

  Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarf.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  Smartless.

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

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• 1:11:05Speaker 09

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• 1:11:17Speaker 10

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