Pod Insights Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel Answering Your Top Housing Questions About this episode 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a free personalized plan.
If buying a house feels impossible, you’re In this episode, Rachel and George tackle your biggest housing questions and reveal which home upgrades are at the top (and bottom) of their list.
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Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🍹 Midnight Tart Cherry Mocktail
Recipe: Munching With Mariyah
1/2 cup (4 oz.) tart cherry juice
1 medium lime, both zest and juice
2 teaspoons honey or maple syrup
1/8 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/8 teaspoon Celtic sea salt
Sparkling water
Instructions: Add the cherry juice, lime zest, lime juice, honey or maple syrup, vanilla extract, and sea salt into a jar. Then either shake the jar vigorously for 30 seconds or mix using a frother. Pour the mixture over a glass filled with ice and top with equal parts sparkling water.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:05 George Kamel? If you've ever felt like owning a home is impossible, this episode is for you. We hear you, we see you, and we're here for you.
0:12 Rachel Cruze? I mean, honestly, the difference between a 15 and a 30, it's unbelievable. Like, hundreds of thousands of dollars you're saving.
0:18 George Kamel? There's this vibe of like, "You're wasting money on rent. Why are you still renting?"
0:26 Rachel Cruze? I'm Rachel Cruz.
0:28 George Kamel? I'm George Kamel.
0:30 Rachel Cruze? And this is
0:31 George Kamel? Smart Money Happy Hour.
0:38 George Kamel? This is a mocktail our children will be talking about.
0:41 Rachel Cruze? Wow, delicious. Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money.
0:51 George Kamel? But before we get to the content, Rachel, let's talk about what we're sipping on. This is a midnight tart cherry mocktail.
0:57 Rachel Cruze? Ah, AKA the sleepy girl drink, right?
0:59 George Kamel? Is that a thing?
1:00 Rachel Cruze? Because the magnesium, there's something in it that can help you go to sleep.
1:03 George Kamel? You can add magnesium to it. It's the tart cherry juice that is known to help with sleep.
1:08 Rachel Cruze? There we go.
1:09 George Kamel? I'm here for you.
1:10 Rachel Cruze? We will talk about that, though.
1:11 George Kamel? We'll give you the rating and reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode, so stick around for that.
1:16 Rachel Cruze? Yes. All right, George. According to the US Census Bureau, only 37% of Americans have lived in their homes for more than 10 years.
1:26 George Kamel? Interesting.
1:27 Rachel Cruze? But recent data also found that more than a third of homeowners plan to stay in their current home forever.
1:35 George Kamel? Can I ask where you fall into that as the Cruz family? How often have you guys moved? Have you ever stayed in a home for 10 years?
1:41 Rachel Cruze? We've moved, this will be our third. So we were in a condo when we got married, moved to a home, we were there for 10 years, and then we've moved to the home we're in. Uh, we've been there for five years and we will be there. So we say, life happens.
1:56 George Kamel? For the foreseeable future.
1:57 Rachel Cruze? Till the kids get out of, yeah, till they out of high school or maybe beyond. So, so Charles is five. So I think we'll be there for another, um, yeah, thirteen, thirteen years.
2:08 George Kamel? Wow.
2:09 Rachel Cruze? We're very happy. It's great.
2:11 George Kamel? Okay.
2:12 Rachel Cruze? We're good. And then maybe something different, but I don't see it. I want to always be in a neighborhood. Well, Rachel today does.
2:18 George Kamel? Versus like on the, the fat of the land?
2:20 Rachel Cruze? I love it. We had a party like this weekend and we were just like texting like eight neighbors and everyone comes and brings food and kids are playing. I'm like, I just.
2:28 George Kamel? You're a social person.
2:29 Rachel Cruze? Love it. It's, and when all the kids ride their bikes to school, it makes me cry.
2:32 George Kamel? That is really sweet.
2:33 Rachel Cruze? But so I want to be with people.
2:35 George Kamel? Yes.
2:36 Rachel Cruze? I do, I don't have a craving to like be on thirty acres by myself.
2:40 George Kamel? But Winston.
2:41 Rachel Cruze? Winston would be there.
2:42 George Kamel? He'd be fine, not seeing another human being. He's fine just seeing creatures, no humans for weeks, months on end.
2:48 Rachel Cruze? Possibly. How about you? How are you, Whitney?
2:51 George Kamel? We have moved every three years on the dot. So we're every three years.
2:55 Rachel Cruze? Every three, that's a lot, George.
2:56 George Kamel? It's a lot. Trust me, I know, as a guy who hates doing things. I hate moving.
3:02 Rachel Cruze? And you'll be about to move again.
3:03 George Kamel? Hopefully this will be the last one. Last one for at least until Mia is like, you know, an older.
3:10 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
3:11 George Kamel? Lady.
3:13 George Kamel? What do you call them?
3:14 Rachel Cruze? What has caused the moves for you guys?
3:16 George Kamel? Uh, just sort of looking to the future and going like.
3:19 Rachel Cruze? Every three years?
3:21 George Kamel? Yeah. Looking to the future.
3:23 Rachel Cruze? What do you mean though, like location, size, like give me a, a reason.
3:26 George Kamel? Location and size and going like, hey, we want to grow our family. We want to have family that comes into town because no one's local. So anytime they come into town, it's like, it's hard. It's like we can't breathe, someone's sleeping on an air mattress, you know? And so it's just nice to have more space and to know that we're okay to kind of expand.
3:45 Rachel Cruze? Totally.
3:45 George Kamel? Like a fish tank, you know?
3:46 Rachel Cruze? Yes. So has the primary move for you guys been space?
3:50 George Kamel? Space and like design and aesthetic and, you know, my wife is basically a secret interior designer. She's really into it.
3:57 Rachel Cruze? And you're artsy, George.
3:58 George Kamel? And I, yeah, I like.
3:59 Rachel Cruze? And you're particular.
4:00 George Kamel? I am particular.
4:01 Rachel Cruze? About George Campbell.
4:02 George Kamel? No, I am the worst. And so in that regard, I do like my, my home is everything to me. Like I, if I could not leave home, I would be happy. The fact that I'm here with you, nightmare. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
4:15 Rachel Cruze? The fact that I'm at work outside of home.
4:17 George Kamel? Yeah, but like if I'm at home, I have no desire to be like, I'd love to go somewhere. I'm fine to be at home because I love the space I've created. You know what I mean?
4:25 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, it's fair.
4:25 George Kamel? So that's what I want for everyone listening today.
4:27 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, that's fair.
4:28 George Kamel? Do you ever see those memes? It's usually millennials making a joke about the fact that a two-bed, one-bath condo they barely bought in 2019 will now be their forever home because interest rates skyrocketed.
4:39 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
4:40 George Kamel? So they have a 3% rate and like, well, I can't take on a 7% rate. I'll stay here. I thought this was my kind of step-up home and now it's the forever home.
4:48 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, they panic in that way, for sure. Which, when you run the numbers, yeah, it can feel a little dicey. But also, the housing market, there's a lot of conversations around it. We've never really dissected the housing market on this show.
5:01 George Kamel? No.
5:01 Rachel Cruze? Because we try to keep it fun, y'all. You know, it's the happy hour. It's like, let's talk about fun stuff. And housing market doesn't sound fun.
5:10 George Kamel? When does that come up at happy hour with your friends?
5:12 Rachel Cruze? The bell doesn't ring, ding ding, fun, fun.
5:14 George Kamel? Interest rates are at a record high, 7% in the last 10...
5:17 Rachel Cruze? We are so excited about that on our happy hour chat. But it's an important conversation to be had and it's one that's very closely tied to your money. So I feel like we need to have it, George. If you're gonna have it, have it over happy hour with a mocktail.
5:30 George Kamel? And we're gonna make it fun, I guarantee you that. So here's the thing, if the housing market feels impossible right now, you're not crazy and you're not alone. So let me just give you this pep talk right now. It's okay to rent. It's okay to feel frustrated with the fact that housing prices have skyrocketed and you've been left on the sidelines wondering, will I ever own a house? So let us encourage you that we believe it's possible for you. We're gonna show you a practical, real way to get there.
5:54 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
5:55 George Kamel? And it's not just a pipe dream.
5:56 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, and we're gonna take this episode and answer the top money questions we get on Ramsey Show, because that's the caller-driven show that we also host together. And a lot of questions about housing. So we're gonna kind of just take those top topics that we hear, questions. We're gonna dive right in. It's gonna be fun.
6:12 George Kamel? All right.
6:12 Rachel Cruze? The first one, are you ready?
6:13 George Kamel? Yeah.
6:14 Rachel Cruze? The first one is, what's so bad about renting?
6:17 George Kamel? Oh, so they've heard this from, I feel like it's mostly parents. I don't know, societally.
6:22 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
6:23 George Kamel? There's this vibe of like, you're wasting money on rent. Why are you still renting?
6:26 Rachel Cruze? Mm-hmm.
6:27 George Kamel? You know, you should be buying a house.
6:28 Rachel Cruze? Bad connotation to some people.
6:30 George Kamel? And to be fair to the younger generations, the boomers are sometimes, and Gen X, sometimes a little out of touch when it comes to the realities of housing.
6:38 Rachel Cruze? Mm-hmm.
6:39 George Kamel? Because they go, well, interest rates are historically low. And I'm like, sure. But housing costs, the actual price of that home, has skyrocketed four, five, six times what it was when you were young and able to buy a house. And so there's a real mathematical equation here to be solved. And that's why I say it's okay if you rent for longer than you would have liked.
7:01 Rachel Cruze? That's right. Yeah, it is not a bad thing. Honestly, the whole idea of like, it's throwing money away. I know it can feel like that, right? You're just, you're paying a good amount of money. It's not going to anything.
7:11 George Kamel? For someone else to pay off their mortgage and build wealth.
7:13 Rachel Cruze? Equity, like I get, I understand that emotion. That makes total sense. But also you have to realize that homeownership, like it adds a whole other level of expenses that you're not having to deal with. And so if it's buying time for you to save, all day, all day.
7:28 George Kamel? Especially when you're young, you're newlywed. Like this happened with my wife and I. We rented an apartment until we were able to buy. And it was so nice to be able to just like, send a text or fill out a form to have someone come and fix the toilet when it was broken. While we figured out how to be newlyweds. You know what I mean?
7:45 Rachel Cruze? Yeah. Well, what toilet issue could you not fix, George?
7:48 George Kamel? I don't know, I don't remember. No, I don't think it was, I think it was the actual toilet itself was not like in place well.
7:55 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, that needs to be fixed.
7:57 George Kamel? Yeah, it was nothing major in an apartment, but it was just nice to have all the things dealt with for you.
8:02 Rachel Cruze? Totally.
8:02 George Kamel? You're not worrying about HOA and property taxes and homeowners insurance.
8:07 Rachel Cruze? And stuff's just breaking. Like half of our roof came off, basically, not half, but like a portion of it during a storm. We had like a really bad windstorm.
8:14 George Kamel? Oh, no.
8:15 Rachel Cruze? And yeah, you had to get insurance, you know, insurance claims, all of this. It's like replace the whole roof, that. Garage door's messed up, and so we had to do that. I mean, like, there's just, it's.
8:24 George Kamel? Maybe because you hit it? We don't know what happened.
8:26 Rachel Cruze? I did hit it, but it wasn't because of that. I hit it years ago.
8:31 Rachel Cruze? But that was an issue. I don't know. It's just, things always just keep, they just keep coming up.
8:35 George Kamel? Yeah, my first town home, the HVAC went out and I was like, cool. I don't know, a thousand bucks to get this thing. Nope, it was $6,000 to get a new HVAC.
8:44 Rachel Cruze? I know.
8:45 George Kamel? And like I had an ice dam. Have you ever heard of this? Didn't know what an ice dam was until waters pouring out of my bedroom ceiling.
8:50 Rachel Cruze? But from the condensation, like it all built up?
8:52 George Kamel? After the snow and ice, apparently, uh, it can just start leaking through your ceiling.
8:57 Rachel Cruze? Oh, man.
8:58 George Kamel? Yeah, Google ice dam, D A M, family friendly show. But that was a, that was a nightmare to have to deal with and get fixed and pay for and deal with insurance.
9:07 Rachel Cruze? Renting is not bad. You're okay.
9:09 George Kamel? It's buying patience. That's how I see it.
9:12 Rachel Cruze? We get callers that are like, hey, should I just rent forever? Like, why own a home? But it is a part of your budget that is going to continually go up and it's usually the most expensive line item in the budget. So eventually, owning a home, paying it off so you don't have that expense going into retirement, that's ideal.
9:28 George Kamel? That's huge. To get rid of that largest fixed expense in your budget is a game changer. And so getting your house paid off is part of the Ramsey plan.
9:35 Rachel Cruze? All right, George, next one. When should I buy?
9:37 George Kamel? Ooh, when you're financially ready?
9:41 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, and how do we know that?
9:43 George Kamel? Debt-free, fully funded emergency fund, and you have a decent down payment. Now, we're okay with five to 10% down now, but the key is to get that payment to be a quarter of your take-home pay on a 15-year conventional fixed rate. Get a lot of flack for that, understandably, because they go, Rachel, are you serious? Have you seen what the? I'll never be able to do that. We're not like, it's not a sin to get a 30-year mortgage. We just can do math and go like, listen, I know it's, instead of two grand, it's gonna be 2,700 on a 15-year, but you're saving hundreds of thousands in interest.
10:14 Rachel Cruze? So much on interest.
10:15 George Kamel? With these crazy interest rates.
10:16 Rachel Cruze? Yeah. I mean, honestly, the difference between a 15 and a 30, it's unbelievable. Like, hundreds of thousands of dollars you're saving. And yeah, and I know we get calls a lot on The Ramsey Show and people kind of bump up that mortgage beyond what we suggest and they go like 40%.
10:34 George Kamel? 50%, 60%.
10:36 Rachel Cruze? Oh yeah, we get those, but it's like they just go right up to that edge mark where it's a little stressful, but it's okay and then something happens.
10:42 George Kamel? And then?
10:43 Rachel Cruze? A job loss, a health scare, like something happens.
10:45 George Kamel? One person wants to stay at home?
10:46 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, they have a baby and like my wife doesn't want to go back to work, but we can't afford that. I think stuff just happens. So when you just live more conservatively, it just gives you peace and margin to make other decisions in your life that you want to make. And so maybe it's not a bigger house. It may not be exactly in the right location. Maybe you're 20 minutes further than you want to be, but like it gives you more peace in your overall life and it's what we want for you. So it's worth it.
11:07 George Kamel? If you have a 27% mortgage of your take home, we're not angry at you. There's a level, it's just a parameter. It's just like this is the healthiest way to go. So you have margin to accomplish all of your other financial goals.
11:19 Rachel Cruze? That's right. Um, all right. Next, should I wait for the housing bubble to burst?
11:24 George Kamel? Yikes. You're gonna be waiting a long time.
11:27 Rachel Cruze? We, I don't hear this one as much. I heard it a lot, probably last year, this time last year, 18 months ago.
11:33 George Kamel? And during the pandemic, there was a lot of talk about it's gonna explode and I'm gonna wait on the sidelines.
11:38 Rachel Cruze? It was funny because it was like 2020, everything was like, oh my gosh, COVID, COVID, COVID, 2021. People were like, we're moving, we're moving. I mean, 21, 22 was insane. Like everything just like.
11:49 George Kamel? Prices skyrocketed.
11:51 Rachel Cruze? Shot up and everyone was freaked out.
11:52 George Kamel? And then the interest rates starting climbing up and up and up.
11:55 Rachel Cruze? And for good reason, right? It feels like, oh my gosh, everything is so inflated. These houses are so expensive. They're not worth what people are paying. So it's creating this artificial bubble is what everyone thought and it's gonna pop. Let me wait and be on the sidelines for two or three years. It'll pop.
12:10 George Kamel? And then it stayed there.
12:11 Rachel Cruze? It's, everyone's gonna go into foreclosure and then I can buy a great deal. And it has stayed. And the reason it has stayed is back to like what buyer, the number of buyers.
12:20 George Kamel? Supply and demand.
12:20 Rachel Cruze? Yes, versus houses on the market. And there is still, there are a lot of houses on the market, but there are still more buyers than houses.
12:28 George Kamel? There's still a shortage of houses, thanks to a lot of factors.
12:30 Rachel Cruze? Yep.
12:31 George Kamel? Number one, people don't want to let go of their amazing rate they have.
12:34 Rachel Cruze? So they're staying put. That's a big one. Yes.
12:36 George Kamel? Then on top of that, we haven't caught up on the supply of homes because of the pandemic and, you know, lumber and all these shortages. Builders can't build fast enough.
12:45 Rachel Cruze? Yep.
12:45 George Kamel? And so there's still a shortage of homes, which is going to keep prices up. So if you're hoping on the sidelines, holding your breath for home prices to just shoot down, you're going to die if you keep holding your breath.
12:55 Rachel Cruze? And there were some markets, Austin, Texas, like a couple that kind of re-
12:59 George Kamel? Balanced.
12:59 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, they rebalanced. They went down a little bit, but it was not like, oh, like everyone thought it was-
13:03 George Kamel? It wasn't a crash.
13:04 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, everyone thought it was going to be like 08 again, if you remember 08. It was, everyone was expecting that again.
13:08 George Kamel? Well, it was a different issue there with subprime lending. There was a lot of different issues that we're experiencing now. So if you're waiting on the sidelines, do not wait. That's why we tell people, buy when you're financially ready. Don't wait for some magic housing market to exist. It will not happen.
13:21 Rachel Cruze? All right, George, ready for the next one? Are HELOCs a good idea?
13:25 George Kamel? Oh, boy. Home equity lines of credit. This is basically using your home equity like a credit card. It's a line of credit attached to your home and it's moving you backwards financially and puts your home at risk with a variable interest rate. So this is a very dangerous game to play. And if we're going to be honest, as we take calls on the Ramsey Show, most people are taking out HELOCs to renovate the kitchen.
13:49 Rachel Cruze? Their house, I know, to renovate.
13:50 George Kamel? You know what I mean? They're not doing, they're not like, well, I did it to pay off my debt. Even then, we'd say terrible idea.
13:55 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
13:56 George Kamel? But most people are doing this for sort of vanity purposes. And if you can't do it with cash, just wait to do it until you can cash flow it.
14:02 Rachel Cruze? Yes. Because usually when you're using debt, especially for renovation type issues, you're going to go beyond what you would normally do with cash.
14:10 George Kamel? That's true.
14:11 Rachel Cruze? And you go nicer than you would have. I mean, it just, it ends up snowballing, yes, into it. And you're like, listen. It's, yeah, not worth it.
14:18 George Kamel? And HELOCs are so popular now because everyone gained all this equity in their home in the last few years. And so they're going, hey, we don't have the money, but we could just take out a HELOC against our house. And it's marketed so heavily from lenders and banks going, hey, your home went up in value. We see that. What if we just told you, you can take 200 grand out? Terrible idea.
14:37 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
14:38 George Kamel? Please don't do this.
14:38 Rachel Cruze? It's like a carrot that seems great. And also carrot that seems great is just having your information online, George.
14:45 George Kamel? We fill it out willy-nilly these days.
14:46 Rachel Cruze? It is just normal. Normalized, putting your info out into the world and into the public and onto the internet. And what happens is companies end up selling your data to data brokers and then they end up selling or trading your data and making money.
15:01 George Kamel? Sick.
15:01 Rachel Cruze? Which we do not like. So Delete Me is a subscription that they actually go in and remove your personal data from all of these data broker websites. And it's phenomenal because it takes your information out. So scammers, spammers, like all of that.
15:15 George Kamel? The robo emails and texts and calls, it's exhausting.
15:19 Rachel Cruze? It is. So Delete Me goes in and removes your data and it's a beautiful thing. So thank you Delete Me.
15:24 George Kamel? Yeah.
15:24 Rachel Cruze? Because we use it and we love it.
15:25 George Kamel? They have, they've removed my info from hundreds of data broker sites and they've saved me 77 hours of time it would have taken me myself to do all of that. So it's totally worth it for the peace of mind and the time savings. And if you want to check them out, they're giving our listeners a sweet discount. 20% off if you go to joindelete.me/smartmoney. So it's super affordable. Click the link in the show notes if you want to learn more and get started.
15:49 Rachel Cruze? All right, George, how about a house hopping? Is it smart to house hop like people job hop?
15:55 George Kamel? Ooh.
15:55 Rachel Cruze? Oh, because this is a trend with jobs.
15:58 George Kamel? Just like stay at a job a year or two, then jump to the next one to get a promotion.
16:01 Rachel Cruze? Because you get promotion, promotion, promotion, promotion. You end up making more if you just keep job hopping. Is the idea and then eventually people get it.
16:08 George Kamel? That's the same in the house world.
16:09 Rachel Cruze? I don't think it is either.
16:10 George Kamel? Because you're paying pretty intense fees every time you move between closing costs, the realtor, you know.
16:16 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, you're kind of a house hopper. Can I say that?
16:18 George Kamel? I have been accidentally because we've moved every three years since we've been married. But it's worked out in our favor.
16:23 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
16:24 George Kamel? In this random instance because we, number one, that, that gap from like 2019 to 2022, some of the most insane house appreciation history.
16:32 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, I don't really, yeah.
16:32 George Kamel? Like the house that we bought was not worth what we paid for it on paper. And so I hope that three years later, we can sell what we got for it. And so like there's a risk in there, but I would not recommend house hopping because of all the realtor fees, the closing costs.
16:45 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
16:46 George Kamel? Stay long enough to quote ROI on that purchase.
16:49 Rachel Cruze? For sure, yeah.
16:50 George Kamel? To cover all of the fees plus profit takes a while. And so that's why we recommend like buying a home is a long-term purchase, five years plus. Now, can you buy and sell within that timeframe? Sure, and it can work out.
17:02 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, but don't let that be your your housing strategy.
17:04 George Kamel? Yes.
17:05 Rachel Cruze? You will lose money eventually because like you're saying, it's an anomaly, this time period that we're in. And if you did that a lot during this time period, you're probably gonna make some money doing it. But that's not gonna be like that forever. Now, the price of our houses is slowly going up.
17:19 George Kamel? It's more stable.
17:20 Rachel Cruze? It's going up, but it's very slow. It's not like it was.
17:23 George Kamel? And on the other side, I don't want people to sit on the sidelines for 15 years trying to get their dream home.
17:28 Rachel Cruze? I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:29 George Kamel? Get your foot in the door and get that townhome or condo or reasonable single family in an area further out. Like make some compromises to get in the real estate market and then you can upgrade later.
17:38 Rachel Cruze? Yep, I love it. Okay, we covered this a little bit, but we'll hit these two really quick. How much should my mortgage be in comparison to my income? So we say 25% of your take-home pay, so a quarter of it is going to housing. And then that means you have 75% left of your income to save, pay for your life, your necessities.
17:58 George Kamel? Invest?
17:58 Rachel Cruze? Invest, yeah, I mean, all of it.
18:00 George Kamel? Vacations?
18:01 Rachel Cruze? Again, we will always say it is a conservative outlook when it comes to housing. I mean, because a lot of people don't do 25%, it is beyond that for sure. But again, what we have found, the more margin you have, the more choices you have with your money. And don't let your house, even though it is a great investment, like being a homeowner is a goal. Like you want to eventually in your life, that that should be a goal for everyone. But it should not be the only thing your money goes towards. So like, get a smaller home, again, live further out than where you want to be to have the ability to go do more of what you want to do with your income.
18:33 George Kamel? Yes, and can I also say that 25% parameter, that is after-tax income before other deductions like healthcare or your 401k investment. So you can manually do the math, but it should help your numbers out. Because a lot of people go, Rachel, oh, my gosh, what ends up in my bank account? Oh, my gosh, I can't do that.
18:49 Rachel Cruze? Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:50 George Kamel? Yeah, no, remove out the healthcare premium, remove out the 15% to the 401k. And that will help you go, okay, it's 25% of after-tax income, but before other deductions.
19:00 Rachel Cruze? Yes, so good. What mortgage is best? You're gonna say a balloon mortgage, aren't you, George?
19:07 George Kamel? Oh, I love a balloon.
19:08 Rachel Cruze? Love a balloon.
19:09 George Kamel? Me and my daughter love balloon.
19:11 Rachel Cruze? Love an arm.
19:12 George Kamel? There's a lot of terrible mortgage options out there. And so the one that we recommend as the best, the creme de la creme, is the 15-year fixed-rate conventional mortgage. And again, if you have a 30-year mortgage, you are still gonna go to heaven. We're gonna have a great time there. It's not a terrible thing. But we recommend the 15-year because of how much you're gonna save in time and in interest.
19:33 Rachel Cruze? Yes. And it forces you into a plan. Because a lot of people will take the 30 and just say, "I'll pay it like a 15." But again, a 15-
19:39 George Kamel? Where y'all at? Where y'all at? 15 years later, y'all still paying your mortgages.
19:43 Rachel Cruze? Just assumes, yes, that you are on it, right? It kinda, and I think that's another great thing, is when you can automate certain things in your life to force you into like good habits, do it.
19:53 George Kamel? Yes.
19:53 Rachel Cruze? I think that's great, right? And like, it's like if your refrigerator could just automatically have the healthy stuff in there. You don't have to shop or worry about, "Oh, what do I do this, what do I do that?" It's just in there.
20:03 George Kamel? It's there.
20:04 Rachel Cruze? It's great. Like, if you can automate things in your life that's better for you, do it.
20:07 George Kamel? Yeah, we know that we're human. And like left to our own devices, we're probably not gonna do the healthiest thing for us all the time.
20:15 Rachel Cruze? No.
20:15 George Kamel? And so saying you're gonna get a 30-year-
20:16 Rachel Cruze? Vacations, call.
20:18 George Kamel? And here what they say. "Well, Rachel, I want the wiggle room. So I'm gonna do the 30-year." You have an emergency fund. You don't need wiggle room if you do it the Ramsey way.
20:26 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
20:26 George Kamel? So what we find is the average millionaire in our millionaire study pays off their home in 10.2 years. A decade. And don't worry about the interest rate and the spread. We always say, marry the house, date the rate. Because you can always refinance later if rates go down. So don't be as concerned about that. Just get yourself financially ready and just go ahead and get in the market.
20:46 Rachel Cruze? Yep. All right. Here's a personal question, George. What's one unexpected challenge with homeownership that you learned the hard way?
20:55 George Kamel? Hoi, yai, yai, where do you start? I mean, of course, you have the maintenance and repairs. That's something that no one warned you about. That like, you have to deal with that. Not only you have to pay for it, you have to figure out who's the right people to go to in this scenario.
21:08 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
21:09 George Kamel? And do I file the claim? Do I go out of pocket? Is this person legitimate? Do they, you know, are they well reviewed? Are they gonna upcharge me? Cause I don't know the prices of what repair and labor costs. And so there's a lot of research that goes into it that I was not prepared for. On top of, you know, property taxes and insurance, that's real. And that number can go up. So you're not, even though you have a fixed principal and interest, your taxes and insurance can go up year to year.
21:33 Rachel Cruze? For sure.
21:35 George Kamel? How about you?
21:36 Rachel Cruze? Um, I think a re- not as much of a challenge, cause I would have echoed all of that. I think just homeownership is expensive. Like when I had to fix windows or fix whatever, I'm like, it costs how? Like it's just, it is crazy how much things cost. So it just feels very expensive. And I feel like on our every dollar budget, we have a home item. And I just feel like it, like so much gets put into that category. And we end up having to up it a lot of months. Cause it's just like, stuff just ends up falling in it. So I don't know, it's expensive. That's what I would say.
22:03 George Kamel? That's a good word.
22:03 Rachel Cruze? Okay, uh, if you had one house ick when you bought your first home, what would it be?
22:07 George Kamel? Oh, there was this like pink shag rug in the other two bedrooms that just like crushed my soul. So that was the first thing we had to do before move in.
22:17 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
22:18 George Kamel? I was like, we're getting people in here to replace this and put hardwood in.
22:21 Rachel Cruze? That's good.
22:22 George Kamel? And we also replaced the pink shag rug in the bonus room with just new rug.
22:25 Rachel Cruze? That's smart. That's good.
22:27 George Kamel? So those were the things we decided were worth it. On top of, we had to paint all the walls in the house.
22:31 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
22:32 George Kamel? We didn't realize we kind of bought a fixer upper, but like, I guess dogs had destroyed walls.
22:36 Rachel Cruze? Oh gosh.
22:37 George Kamel? There was like random holes in the wall. It wasn't like scratches, like it wasn't being OCD. It was bad enough that we had to rep- like just repaint everything.
22:44 Rachel Cruze? Not good.
22:44 George Kamel? So that was a big one for us. How about you?
22:46 Rachel Cruze? Um, our kitchen was like a tomato red. Like when I say tomato red, like the reddest-
22:54 George Kamel? The cabinets or what?
22:54 Rachel Cruze? No, the walls.
22:55 George Kamel? The walls were tomato red?
22:57 Rachel Cruze? Tomato red, but it wasn't a big kitchen at all. So it was just basically like the backsplash and like one wall.
23:02 George Kamel? Okay.
23:03 Rachel Cruze? And then white cabinets. But it was-
23:05 George Kamel? It's aggressive.
23:06 Rachel Cruze? Something. It was something. I don't know. Not good.
23:09 George Kamel? Was it the Heinz family that lived in before you?
23:11 Rachel Cruze? I mean, literally, it's what, I mean, it was, it was a terrible, terrible red.
23:14 George Kamel? Yeah, but again, these are things that can easily be replaced. When we talk about buying a home and looking past features, think about things that you can easily replace. You hate the carpet, you hate the wall color.
23:24 Rachel Cruze? Yes, yeah.
23:24 George Kamel? Easily replace.
23:25 Rachel Cruze? A hundred percent.
23:26 George Kamel? If you hate the floor plan, that's gonna be a much more expensive fix.
23:29 Rachel Cruze? Sure, yeah, knocking down a wall.
23:30 George Kamel? So just know that going in.
23:31 Rachel Cruze? Do you know something that's not tomato red?
23:33 George Kamel? Hit me.
23:34 Rachel Cruze? My Navy Cozy Earth pajamas.
23:37 George Kamel? That's science.
23:38 Rachel Cruze? Y'all, Cozy Earth, it is just the most beautiful, wonderful stuff.
23:42 George Kamel? No ick there.
23:43 Rachel Cruze? No.
23:44 George Kamel? All bougie, no ick.
23:45 Rachel Cruze? If anything, you're just like, can I have it all? Please, give it to me. From the blankets, the sheets, the pajamas, the joggers, the socks.
23:54 George Kamel? The blankets.
23:54 Rachel Cruze? Everything.
23:55 George Kamel? Mostly the blanket for me.
23:56 Rachel Cruze? Do you know I gave so many Cozy Earth products for Christmas?
23:59 George Kamel? You're such a giver.
24:00 Rachel Cruze? I know, and then, and then one person went and bought more because they texted me like, "Hey, can I get the actual name of what you bought? Because I want to get it in different color." And I was like, "That's right." Their stuff is amazing, it really is. Love Cozy Earth.
24:13 George Kamel? It's the best, and they are giving our listeners a steep discount, up to 40% off, if you go to cozylearth.com/smartmoney, or use the promo code SMARTMONEY at checkout. And let me tell you, no one's been upset. I've never given a Cozy Earth gift and someone's like, "Pfft, come on."
24:29 Rachel Cruze? I don't like this, come on.
24:30 George Kamel? They're always like, "How did he afford this? This is bougie." And so if you want to be bougie frugal, use promo code SMARTMONEY at checkout. All right, Rachel, let's have a little fun, which we haven't had a lot of this episode, mostly thanks to, I'm kidding.
24:42 Rachel Cruze? Unbelievable.
24:42 George Kamel? Here's what I've got. I've got a list of three home upgrades that could lose you money at resale. You have a list of top three home upgrades that could add value at resale.
24:51 Rachel Cruze? Okay.
24:51 George Kamel? This will help those that are currently homeowners decide, is it worth it?
24:55 Rachel Cruze? All right, I'm gonna give you my opinion. Give me your first one.
24:57 George Kamel? Your honest, real opinion?
24:59 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
24:59 George Kamel? We've never heard that on the show.
25:00 Rachel Cruze? Give it to you.
25:00 George Kamel? Love to hear it. Okay, here's the number one that could lose you money at resale. Specific and custom decor. Think a giant wall mural, weird wallpaper, bright paint colors, stained glass windows, niche light fixtures. It can't be so specific to you.
25:16 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
25:16 George Kamel? Because the other person may not want that.
25:18 Rachel Cruze? 100%. So yeah, for me, it's less like wall because you can repaint something. But if you had like a, you know, two skyscrapers and a, and a bridge across them because you wanted to like.
25:29 George Kamel? Classic house.
25:30 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
25:31 George Kamel? There's a moat out front, you gotta cross a little river.
25:33 Rachel Cruze? There are some weird houses out there, and that is true. It is hard to sell those. They're weird like that, so it's fair.
25:40 George Kamel? That's a good one. I was gonna say something more normal. Like when we moved in, there was a chalkboard wall with like industrial pipes and then like barrels.
25:48 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, but to me.
25:48 George Kamel? And it was kinda like a, you know.
25:50 Rachel Cruze? I hear it, but you can replace that stuff though.
25:52 George Kamel? No, it was an easy replace.
25:53 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, to me, it's the big, it's like the weird stuff where you walk into a house.
25:56 George Kamel? But it still costs a lot of money to do these things. And then someone's gonna go in and go, no, we want a discount.
26:01 Rachel Cruze? That's fair.
26:01 George Kamel? Cause we're gonna have to change that.
26:02 Rachel Cruze? Okay, keep going.
26:03 George Kamel? Next one, new carpet. So here's the thing with carpet, doesn't stay clean, goes out of style quickly. Most people wanna replace with hardwood or laminate, which is what we did when we moved in.
26:12 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:13 George Kamel? So that one, I totally get. If you're gonna do it, do hardwood.
26:15 Rachel Cruze? We carpeted the kids' rooms.
26:18 George Kamel? That's smart.
26:18 Rachel Cruze? And our playroom, but we did hardwoods everywhere else. I don't know, kids, there's something cozy about carpet, like in a room sometimes, I don't know.
26:25 George Kamel? Love a bonus room with carpet.
26:27 Rachel Cruze? I'm okay, I don't know.
26:28 George Kamel? It feels cozy.
26:28 Rachel Cruze? It does feel cozy. Okay, keep going. I don't know if I agree with that one.
26:30 George Kamel? Here's a weird one, eliminating versatility. So knocking down a wall and lessening the number of bedrooms, making all bedrooms have shower stalls instead of leaving a bathtub, so families with young kids.
26:40 Rachel Cruze? Oh.
26:41 George Kamel? Helpful to have a bathtub.
26:41 Rachel Cruze? That's fair.
26:42 George Kamel? Turning the garage into a recording studio, things that are so custom.
26:46 Rachel Cruze? I would agree with that. I would agree with this. I think that's fair.
26:48 George Kamel? Okay.
26:49 Rachel Cruze? Yep, yep.
26:49 George Kamel? Last one, adding a pool.
26:52 Rachel Cruze? Oh no.
26:53 George Kamel? Especially to average and middle-class neighborhoods. Caveat here, apparently. Uh, upkeep is expensive, not worth it to many people, can be a hazard for folks with young kids and pets. You rarely get the money back you put in during resale.
27:05 Rachel Cruze? I'm gonna, yeah.
27:06 George Kamel? Is that fair?
27:07 Rachel Cruze? Uh.
27:07 George Kamel? As someone who just built a pool?
27:09 Rachel Cruze? I know, and we, you know, it's funny, cause when we priced out, how much it's gonna cost? And we decided on it, and we did it because we knew like, we want this for our house.
27:16 George Kamel? And you're gonna be there a long time.
27:17 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, probably, yeah. Um, but we knew like, yeah, it probably would, if we had to sell our house today, we'd finish the pool. What we put in versus what we get out probably isn't comparable, so that's fair.
27:31 George Kamel? But not everything, can I just say this? Not everything has to be about resale value.
27:34 Rachel Cruze? George, you're so human. Thank you.
27:36 George Kamel? So human, so relatable. If you want to do it, do it. Just know that not everything has to have ROI for you to enjoy it in life.
27:43 Rachel Cruze? Yes, because part of life is just enjoying what you like, right? So I mean, that is true.
27:48 George Kamel? All right, hit me with some upgrades that are worth the money.
27:51 Rachel Cruze? Right, neutral decor. So light paint colors, neutral kitchen, classic light fixtures, all of that. Because I do think, if you're someone like me that's not creative, I walk into a place, into a home, and I'm not, I can't think beyond what I see.
28:06 George Kamel? You see tomato red and you go, ugh.
28:08 Rachel Cruze? I mean, seriously, yeah, it's very hard for me to like, look beyond that. So if you do want to sell your home, having neutral, for a majority of the population that's not creative and doesn't like, think outside the box, like me, when it comes to decorations, it's gonna be an easier sell. So I would agree with that.
28:25 George Kamel? Strong.
28:25 Rachel Cruze? Okay, next, tile or hardwood flooring.
28:28 George Kamel? Smart.
28:29 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, very nice. When you walk in, hardwood floors.
28:31 George Kamel? Yeah, no one ever walks in, sees like, newer hardwood and goes, ugh. Put some carpet on that, disgusting.
28:36 Rachel Cruze? Totally, it's so true. It's so true.
28:38 George Kamel? I don't know why, but our parents' generation loved to put carpet over beautiful hardwood. And now the millennials and Gen Z are trying to rip the carpet up and expose the original hardwood.
28:48 Rachel Cruze? And that it's beautiful. And what a story to tell.
28:50 George Kamel? What a story.
28:51 Rachel Cruze? To say, this was the original hardwood.
28:53 George Kamel? It's the same people who rescue their pets. Same energy. I rescued this hardwood. Okay, relax bud.
29:00 Rachel Cruze? Say.
29:01 George Kamel? Relax.
29:02 Rachel Cruze? Just so holy, so holy. Okay, I believe in this one very deeply. Updated bathrooms and kitchens. That is, if you're gonna put your money somewhere, put it there.
29:11 George Kamel? And they become outdated the fastest. And so it's good to have just a nice, clean, simple, neutral.
29:17 Rachel Cruze? I love that. And then organization.
29:20 George Kamel? Oh, I didn't think about this.
29:22 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, so if you have like, easy ways to organize, like a beautiful pantry that you can put bin, like, things that are easy to look more aesthetically pleasing.
29:29 George Kamel? Because it's aspirational. People go, I'd love a laundry room that was actually clean.
29:33 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
29:33 George Kamel? A pantry that was organized, a closet that didn't look like a nightmare. People want this fresh start when they move.
29:39 Rachel Cruze? Yep, and I, yeah.
29:40 George Kamel? So it's inspiring. That's the thing, when you set up a home for staging, you want to go, would that other person go, I can see myself here?
29:47 Rachel Cruze? I can see myself here, yeah.
29:48 George Kamel? Versus, I don't want to see Rachel's life there, I want to see my life there.
29:51 Rachel Cruze? That's right. Look at you. What a realtor you are.
29:53 George Kamel? Love your life, not theirs.
29:54 Rachel Cruze? Unbelievable.
29:55 George Kamel? Someone should write that book.
29:56 Rachel Cruze? Unbelievable.
29:58 Rachel Cruze? All right, you guys, the housing market, there's a lot here. I'm glad we covered it because there's a lot. There's a lot to this. There's a lot of emotion. It's a big deal. It's the largest purchase majority of people make in their lifetime. So you want to be wise about it. But I do think there's always a plan towards it. And that it's possible. And then when you have it, you pay it off. And then you don't have a mortgage, but you still pay property tax.
30:23 George Kamel? Beautifully said. And here's my final thought. Drop the thought of a dream home. I think it's unhealthy and it causes us to live in this fantasy world.
30:33 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
30:33 George Kamel? There's no such thing as dream home. Even the home that you built from scratch to your own, it's still going to have its issues.
30:38 Rachel Cruze? Yes.
30:39 George Kamel? And you won't stay there forever. Wherever you think you're going to stay forever is a lie. We are not grandma and grandpa. We're not living in the Great Depression. We move around. We upgrade houses. We switch towns. We do all kinds of things. And so I think just letting go of this idea, there has to be one home that we're in forever and we love will just free us emotionally and mentally.
30:57 Rachel Cruze? I like that, George.
30:58 George Kamel? That's the first thing she's ever liked that I said.
31:00 Rachel Cruze? That is very freeing. I like that. So good. All right, before we spill the tea on our guilty as charged, tell us about our mocktail. It's actually delicious.
31:09 George Kamel? This is a midnight tart cherry mocktail, AKA sleepy girl mocktail, because you can add magnesium and make it a real... I don't know, midnight feels like to be going to bed for anyone.
31:19 Rachel Cruze? What are you? I'm a nine PMer.
31:22 George Kamel? In bed by nine, lights out?
31:23 Rachel Cruze? I'm in bed by 8:30.
31:26 George Kamel? And like, ready for bed?
31:27 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, sometimes we'll watch something, I'll read.
31:30 George Kamel? What a treat.
31:31 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
31:32 George Kamel? I'm a 9:30 tenor.
31:34 Rachel Cruze? Okay.
31:35 George Kamel? If I'm not lights out by 10:30, there's serious issues.
31:38 Rachel Cruze? Do you and Whitney go to bed together?
31:40 George Kamel? We do.
31:41 Rachel Cruze? Yeah.
31:41 George Kamel? Mostly one of us yells at each other because the phone light is too bright in pitch black. Like, "Go to bed."
31:47 Rachel Cruze? Go to bed.
31:48 George Kamel? Phone light, "What are you doing?"
31:49 Rachel Cruze? I can't see.
31:50 George Kamel? You're going to hate yourself in the morning. So it's usually that level of...
31:52 Rachel Cruze? That's great.
31:53 George Kamel? That's love. That's love.
31:54 Rachel Cruze? That is love. That is love.
31:55 George Kamel? So the midnight tart cherry mocktail costs $1.85 to make. Not bad. It's got tart cherry juice, which is the most expensive ingredient, lime juice and zest. It's got honey or maple syrup, your choice, vanilla extract and Celtic sea salt, and then some sparkling water to add some zip to it.
32:12 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, I appreciate that.
32:13 George Kamel? This is a 10 out of 10 drink for me.
32:14 Rachel Cruze? Uh, I think I... I'll go 9 out of 10.
32:19 Rachel Cruze? It's a little tart.
32:20 George Kamel? If you don't like tart, why would you drink a tart cherry juice mocktail? I don't know. That's on you.
32:24 Rachel Cruze? Well, I don't know, but it's still, it's sweet and good, but.
32:27 George Kamel? Very good.
32:27 Rachel Cruze? Mm-hmm.
32:28 George Kamel? So if you want to check it out, the recipe is in the show notes. Make it at home for the whole family.
32:32 Rachel Cruze? All right, now it's time for.
32:34 George Kamel? Guilty as charged.
32:36 Rachel Cruze? And this is where our producer Kelly gives us a new guilty charged question every week. And if we're guilty, take a sip. Kelly?
32:41 Speaker 02 What is one bougie home preference that people judge you for?
32:46 George Kamel? Oh, gosh, why, I mean, yeah, I'm guilty. I've been judged.
32:49 Rachel Cruze? Mm.
32:52 George Kamel? Judgment is a strong word.
32:53 Rachel Cruze? Mm-hmm.
32:54 George Kamel? I can think of one for you.
32:56 Rachel Cruze? I have two in my head.
32:57 George Kamel? Oh, wow. Please share both. This is juicy.
33:00 Rachel Cruze? One was me, one was Winston, but I appreciate both.
33:03 George Kamel? Rock garden?
33:04 Rachel Cruze? Okay, my, no, no.
33:05 George Kamel? I judge Winston for the rock garden. I still don't know what he's doing to all these rocks.
33:09 Rachel Cruze? Get ready, you'll see it. There's boulders in our backyard right now.
33:14 Rachel Cruze? Um, mine was heated bathroom floors in our master bath when we built.
33:21 George Kamel? Can I tell you, any judgment is envy on that one. There's no real judgment.
33:26 Rachel Cruze? It is the most, and then we step into our shower, it's obviously not heated and you go from like warm to cold. That's what I could be on, you know?
33:35 George Kamel? So is there a switch? Is it just one setting?
33:37 Rachel Cruze? It's just on constantly.
33:38 George Kamel? Oh, it's constantly on?
33:39 Rachel Cruze? Eighty-five, eighty-five degrees. You just.
33:42 George Kamel? Wow, it's just so warm. That is luxury.
33:45 Rachel Cruze? It's great. We love it. And then Winston's, which I appreciate now, uh, he bought nice garage doors, which we joke, cause they, they have broke, but they're fine now. They're very quiet.
33:57 George Kamel? Oh, I've heard about these.
33:58 Rachel Cruze? Very quiet garage doors and I appreciate it. I don't even know that they're opening.
34:03 George Kamel? Yeah.
34:04 Rachel Cruze? Where I grew up with like, and the whole house kind of shakes, you know what I mean?
34:08 George Kamel? Well, like our daughter's bedroom is like attached to the garage wall.
34:12 Rachel Cruze? Oh, yeah.
34:12 George Kamel? And so when the garage closes during naptime, I'm on pins and needles.
34:16 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, that's tough. That's tough.
34:17 George Kamel? So I look forward to an ultra quiet garage.
34:19 Rachel Cruze? But Winston got some nice garage doors.
34:21 George Kamel? Respect.
34:21 Rachel Cruze? And it's, and I appreciate them. So those were, those were bougie. Two bougie things. How about you?
34:26 George Kamel? Uh, when we moved in, we did the epoxy garage floor, you know, it's like the speckled.
34:31 Rachel Cruze? You love that floor, George.
34:32 George Kamel? I don't know why, but.
34:33 Rachel Cruze? Heard about that floor.
34:33 George Kamel? Well, part of it is just like a garage and just like gray with like cracks in it and there's like oil spills. And this one is just perfect. It's super easy to clean. It feel, like I want to hang out in there, you know? If I ever had a man cave one day.
34:47 Rachel Cruze? Be like there, that nice garage.
34:49 George Kamel? Epoxy floors, the boys would be like, "Dae, this what's up?"
34:51 Rachel Cruze? That's fair.
34:51 George Kamel? If I ever have friends one day.
34:53 Rachel Cruze? Winston and you can hang out in the garages. Quiet garage doors and garage doors.
34:58 George Kamel? Is that aspirational or is that an enemy? Is that a threat or a promise? That's what I want to know.
35:03 Rachel Cruze? Winston would love to hang with you, George.
35:04 George Kamel? You're in an epoxy family, right?
35:06 Rachel Cruze? We are.
35:07 George Kamel? See, I want to live like the Cruises.
35:09 Rachel Cruze? I know.
35:11 George Kamel? Comparison is the thief of joy, but in this case, it's just joy. All right, that's all for today. That's all. I'm gonna stop there. But you know what? I don't care. Here's the thing. This idea of people judging you, it's your house and your life. I'm not like constantly Instagram. I've never Instagrammed my garage floors.
35:30 Rachel Cruze? No, I've never sat by my garage.
35:32 George Kamel? So here's the thing. If it makes you happy and you pay cash for it and it doesn't derail your financial goals, I don't give a rip what anyone thinks about it.
35:39 Rachel Cruze? Good for you, George. That's the energy we need.
35:41 George Kamel? And that's on growth.
35:42 Rachel Cruze? And that is growth. Good therapy. Therapist, well done.
35:46 George Kamel? I feel therapist, thank you.
35:47 Rachel Cruze? Yeah, so good. Well, you guys, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out our harmless purchases that will drain your bank account. That is coming up next. And make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an all-new episode of
36:02 George Kamel? Smart Money Happy Hour.
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