How Does Your Net Worth Compare to the Average American?

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a free personalized plan. Does your current net worth feel like a power move or a bad punch line? In this episode, Rachel and George break down how what you’ve got compares to the average American by age and why it matters for your future. Next Steps: 🎥 Watch our video Do We Have It Harder Financially Than Our Parents? 🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour 📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. 💵 The simplest way to budget. Download the EveryDollar app for free! Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Get up to 40% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth. Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🥃 Banana Old-Fashioned Recipe: @parttimemixologist 2 ounces bourbon 1/4 ounce banana syrup 3–4 dashes black walnut bitters Instructions: Add all ingredients to a glass with ice and stir. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05George Kamel?

  Yes, comparison is the thief of joy, but also, how do you stack up against the average American financially? Today, we're practicing safe comparison. Oh, boy. I was really hoping for more because what we see there, it didn't go up by that hundred thousand.

• 0:18Rachel Cruze?

  Is that not enough for you? I hope your children feel encouraged in life, George.

• 0:21George Kamel?

  I'm glad we have a drink because this is a sobering episode. Tell you that much.

• 0:30Rachel Cruze?

  Hey, guys. I'm Rachel Cruze.

• 0:32George Kamel?

  I'm George Kamel.

• 0:33Rachel Cruze?

  And this is

• 0:34George Kamel?

  Smart Money Happy Hour.

• 0:42Rachel Cruze?

  Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. Everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

• 0:49George Kamel?

  Before we get to the content, let's talk about what we're sipping on.

• 0:52Rachel Cruze?

  I love it. It's a specific fruit that I'm OK with. It's not my favorite fruit, but man.

• 0:58George Kamel?

  Let me tell you, this is a banana old fashioned, and I hate bananas vehemently. That's one of my fun facts. Yeah, but I really enjoy this drink, surprisingly.

• 1:08Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, it's not too strong.

• 1:10George Kamel?

  That's how good it is. So stick around till the end. We're going to give you our rating and reveal the cost per glass. You don't want to miss it. Have you ever been at a church event or maybe fighting for your life in the cold and flu aisle at Target? And someone says, "How are you really?" I don't like that energy personally.

• 1:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, because it does feel like I don't want to be one of those people that's just like, "Oh, how are you?" You want to be like, "I want to get to the depths."

• 1:33George Kamel?

  But it always comes from someone who I don't want to talk to at length.

• 1:36Rachel Cruze?

  Isn't that so true?

• 1:38George Kamel?

  My friends, my truest friends don't ask that.

• 1:41Rachel Cruze?

  You're like, Sandra, I'm not going to, I don't really want to tell you what I'm like.

• 1:43George Kamel?

  I just tell my friends.

• 1:45Rachel Cruze?

  I'm fine. That's right. That's right.

• 1:46George Kamel?

  I don't wait for permission.

• 1:47Rachel Cruze?

  To dissect it in Walgreens with Sandra. I get, I get it. Well, I do think, though, you know, "How are you really?" Is true when it comes to money because we hear from you guys listening and watching a lot that people love to know how they stack up against other people when it comes to their money, whether it's like debt levels, income levels, housing even, like how is my house compared to the median house in America? I mean, there's a ton of comparison and I don't know if it's bad. I think there's a natural curiosity of how am I doing?

• 2:21George Kamel?

  So today, we're going to focus on the healthy side where it's more of, I just want to understand my progress. And so we're going to talk about that. And we have some stats that will help paint a picture of what money looks like for the average American. And as two net worth millionaires, we're going to share what our paths have looked like so far as well.

• 2:36Rachel Cruze?

  And then, most importantly, we are going to talk about the actual measuring stick that you should be comparing your life against and how to get to a place financially where you do feel safe and secure because that's the goal.

• 2:47George Kamel?

  Yes. And I'll say, based on these numbers, everyone's going to feel like they're doing pretty good.

• 2:51Rachel Cruze?

  So if you're listening to this show, you're probably on the right track, if you know what I mean.

• 2:55George Kamel?

  So the data we have starts with the age range of 35 and under, which we can all agree is a pretty wide range.

• 3:01Rachel Cruze?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:02George Kamel?

  I'm assuming we're talking about adults here and not a baby's net worth.

• 3:06Rachel Cruze?

  I would agree with that.

• 3:07George Kamel?

  Although some babies are doing great.

• 3:09Rachel Cruze?

  I mean.

• 3:10George Kamel?

  If you've got a 529 plan and no debt, you're doing better than most Americans.

• 3:13Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, or if you're the Olsen Twins. I don't know why I thought of the Olsen Twins. Think about that. They were working since birth. They're doing great.

• 3:18George Kamel?

  God bless them. Are they thriving? I think they're thriving now.

• 3:21Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, no, I think they are.

• 3:22George Kamel?

  There's probably a period of time in there that was a dark time. It was probably on your prayer list.

• 3:25Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, the Olsen Twins were never on the prayer list. You know, I think I may be putting Katy Perry on it.

• 3:31George Kamel?

  Is she next?

• 3:32Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know. She went to space. I just want to make sure she's okay, you know?

• 3:37Rachel Cruze?

  Went to space.

• 3:38George Kamel?

  I think she's okay. I don't think everyone's okay with her. It's a very different scenario.

• 3:42Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I know. But anyways, it's great. No, the Olsen Twins, I just feel like, yeah, there's some kids, you know, once in a lifetime opportunities as babies and you're making a lot of money. So their net worth is more than ours probably at the age of nine months.

• 3:55George Kamel?

  A lot of time for compound growth to do this thing.

• 3:57Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 3:58George Kamel?

  Well, since our life and financial changes fall more on our twenties versus thirties, we're going to share our personal money milestones based on those two decades first. So let's start with twenties.

• 4:07Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 4:08George Kamel?

  Let's talk about where Rachel Cruz was or Rachel Ramsey.

• 4:12Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 4:12George Kamel?

  As she was known.

• 4:14Rachel Cruze?

  As I was known. That's right.

• 4:15George Kamel?

  Back in college.

• 4:15Rachel Cruze?

  I know. I did a lot in my twenties. So I, as of from today's standards, from like life situations, I think I did things earlier than most people are. Meaning I got married, had kids in my twenties and stuff.

• 4:31George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 4:31Rachel Cruze?

  So I'll say, yeah, I got married, Winston and I started off working. And I will say, we were both very blessed that our school was paid for. So we did not start off with student loans. So I see that as like a huge head start in our money journey. I do not think we just got here because of us. We were very much set up so well. So I do want to thank our parents for that. Because honestly, when you start off financially without student loan debt, as a 21-year-old and you're graduating, like you're starting, like when you get your first salary, your first paycheck, that's yours that you get to start building wealth with pretty immediately, right? Besides the emergency fund. So that is a huge head start that we had. So I'm very grateful for that. So yeah, we started doing that. We got a dog in our twenties.

• 5:14Rachel Cruze?

  We bought a house and we did it out of the recession. We were basically still in the middle of the recession, so.

• 5:19George Kamel?

  You got a deal.

• 5:20Rachel Cruze?

  We got a deal, which was very nice. Yeah, so I feel like we had some luck on our ends with all of that. And then we didn't really do much, I would say, in our mid twenties. I mean, we just invested in like that. And then we had kids. Kids came in my late twenties. I had two kids in my twenties.

• 5:36George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 5:36Rachel Cruze?

  And I had 27 and 29.

• 5:38George Kamel?

  So only Charles was into your thirties?

• 5:40Rachel Cruze?

  My thirties, yeah. Yeah, so that was us. So we had a lot, we lived a lot of life. First house, first dog, two kids and a 401K.

• 5:48George Kamel?

  Beautiful.

• 5:48Rachel Cruze?

  So yeah, that was my twenties. What was yours, George? What'd you do?

• 5:51George Kamel?

  A little different. I had some, I had, my, my growth was stunted financially and physically, obviously.

• 5:57George Kamel?

  We're gonna focus on the financial part today, okay? I don't know how to fix the physical one, but I fixed the financial one. So I graduated in my twenties with 36 grand in student loan debt. I had about four grand in credit card debt. And even then, there was a pretty quick turnaround from, you know, 23 to 25, where I paid off my consumer debt, got the emergency fund in place.

• 6:18Rachel Cruze?

  Which is, you did all that in two years?

• 6:20George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 6:21George Kamel?

  About 18 months from going 40 grand in debt to no debt.

• 6:23Rachel Cruze?

  How much were you making during that time? Do you remember?

• 6:26George Kamel?

  Probably, I would say, upper 30s, maybe in like around 40 plus with side hustles.

• 6:31Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, do you like literally live on half of that? And pay, cause I mean you had

• 6:34George Kamel?

  Oh yeah, no, I did a lot of side hustles. I was like building websites, marketing consulting, Uber and Lyft and you know, I was all about the side hustles.

• 6:42Rachel Cruze?

  Which those would have been new during that time, Uber and Lyft, that was like

• 6:44George Kamel?

  They were new to Nashville and so I got a thousand dollar bonus from each of them because they were new to the Nashville area.

• 6:50Rachel Cruze?

  Stop it.

• 6:50George Kamel?

  And they were like desperate for drivers.

• 6:51Rachel Cruze?

  That's a great story.

• 6:52George Kamel?

  So that really helped. I made two grand from that. I was doing music gigs and licensing stuff and so I was just trying to find money anywhere I could.

• 6:58Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, so you're making a couple thousand here or there, just by that kind of stuff?

• 7:00George Kamel?

  And even the marketing consulting, I think I probably made like 20 grand in a year. So I effectively gave myself a 50% raise.

• 7:06Rachel Cruze?

  You were a consultant at what, age 24?

• 7:09George Kamel?

  Yeah. I was working, my buddy had a, an agency, so he'd work with clients and I was like, I can build websites and help you launch a podcast and do all these things.

• 7:16Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 7:17George Kamel?

  Help you launch a book and so that was really fun.

• 7:19Rachel Cruze?

  Would I know who the person is?

• 7:20George Kamel?

  Yeah, Kevin, Kevin Jennings.

• 7:21Rachel Cruze?

  Was it really? I did not realize that. How is Kevin Jennings?

• 7:25George Kamel?

  Still one of my best friends to this day.

• 7:26Rachel Cruze?

  Is he, he always made me smile with his, with his bow ties.

• 7:29George Kamel?

  Bow tie guy.

• 7:30Rachel Cruze?

  Mr. Kevin.

• 7:30George Kamel?

  So yeah, he was, he was so great, gave me an opportunity to help his clients and that helped me get out of debt faster.

• 7:35Rachel Cruze?

  Look at you, George.

• 7:36George Kamel?

  So I did all of that and I, I bought a house.

• 7:39Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 7:39George Kamel?

  And got married and so a lot of life happened.

• 7:41Rachel Cruze?

  Buy a house first or got married first?

• 7:42George Kamel?

  Uh, married first.

• 7:43Rachel Cruze?

  Married and then how much, how fast did you and Whitney buy a house?

• 7:48George Kamel?

  That was a year after.

• 7:49Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 7:49George Kamel?

  We were, once we got married, I was in a much better place.

• 7:51Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 7:52George Kamel?

  So when I married Whitney, she was debt free. She was like you, got college paid for, was in a great place financially.

• 7:57Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 7:57George Kamel?

  And I was kind of holding us back. But once we got married, we were in an awesome place.

• 8:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 8:01George Kamel?

  And we were able to save up a down payment with our dual income, no kids, no dogs yet. And so we just

• 8:06Rachel Cruze?

  Dinks.

• 8:07George Kamel?

  Yeah, we just saved up aggressively.

• 8:09Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 8:09George Kamel?

  And then ended up paying off our house as we entered our 30s.

• 8:13Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, that's amazing.

• 8:15George Kamel?

  So that was kind of my money journey that I went from negative net worth to millionaire in 10 years.

• 8:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 8:20George Kamel?

  From you know, 23 to 33. And so

• 8:22Rachel Cruze?

  Good for you, George.

• 8:23George Kamel?

  All that to say, no matter where you're starting, a lot can change in a decade. And I love this quote, "Most people overestimate what they can accomplish in a year, they underestimate what they can accomplish in a decade." So it's comforting because it looks like, oh my gosh, how are we gonna do this? And yet, in a year, only so much progress is made.

• 8:39Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 8:40George Kamel?

  If you look at a 10-year picture, 33 is gonna be very different than 23.

• 8:44Rachel Cruze?

  Totally. Oh, that's great, George. Good for you. So when you hit 30, what happened there?

• 8:48George Kamel?

  Oh, boy. Well, you know, I-

• 8:49Rachel Cruze?

  Cause you're what, right now?

• 8:50George Kamel?

  I'm 36.

• 8:52Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, and I'm 37.

• 8:53George Kamel?

  Congratulations.

• 8:54Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, thank you very much. You are slowly but surely. Okay, so-

• 8:57George Kamel?

  More dogs, more kids.

• 8:59Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, okay.

• 9:01George Kamel?

  We bought another house, paid off that house, and so I think it was, it felt easier because you kinda know what's coming.

• 9:08Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 9:09George Kamel?

  But having a kid added a layer of just like-

• 9:11Rachel Cruze?

  Y'all are gonna move again. This is gonna be all's third house as a-

• 9:14George Kamel?

  We love to move. The camels, about every three years, we go, it's time. What if we just had pain and suffering in our life?

• 9:19Rachel Cruze?

  What if we just continued this craziness?

• 9:21George Kamel?

  And every time we move, we're like, we didn't need to do that. But it's just, I think we always love a little challenge.

• 9:27Rachel Cruze?

  You think you'll be like that? I've had friends like that, where they move every four to five years.

• 9:31George Kamel?

  I think I'm done after, because I'm currently packing up our house, and I'm like, why did we do this to ourselves?

• 9:35Rachel Cruze?

  So funny.

• 9:36George Kamel?

  So I don't know if it's a milestone, but you know-

• 9:38Rachel Cruze?

  When did you have Mia? How old were you when you had Mia?

• 9:39George Kamel?

  Um, 30, 34?

• 9:42Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:43George Kamel?

  She's about to be two.

• 9:44Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, okay, okay. And then the two dogs, and then-

• 9:47George Kamel?

  Two French Bulldogs, we got another kid on the way.

• 9:50Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 9:51George Kamel?

  Surprise! I don't know if they knew that, but now you do.

• 9:54Rachel Cruze?

  We're pregnant.

• 9:54George Kamel?

  By the time this airs, I think this child will be on this earth. I don't know.

• 9:58Rachel Cruze?

  Could be.

• 9:58George Kamel?

  No?

• 10:00Rachel Cruze?

  Not quite.

• 10:01George Kamel?

  I'm being told-

• 10:01Rachel Cruze?

  Whitney will be very pregnant.

• 10:02George Kamel?

  I'm being told the baby is not borned yet.

• 10:05Rachel Cruze?

  Who knows?

• 10:06George Kamel?

  So there's a lot of excitement, and we're, I'm very privileged in my own way to have the life that I have and have this blessing. You know, there's a lot of this, like, I don't deserve to have a life this good. You know what I mean? Like, 23-year-old George is like, you what?

• 10:18Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 10:19George Kamel?

  Like, look at your life.

• 10:20Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 10:21George Kamel?

  Your family, your house, the doll, everything, your job.

• 10:23Rachel Cruze?

  There's something to say about that, because I do think we can live life looking at the next thing. And it's like, the stuff you've prayed for, it's here. Like, you know what I mean? I feel that sometimes. I'm like, just sit in it, Rachel. Like, this is amazing. Like, this is what you've wanted for your life. There's something beautiful in that.

• 10:37George Kamel?

  And I'm so future-focused, I have to really work hard-

• 10:40Rachel Cruze?

  To be in the present.

• 10:41George Kamel?

  To focus on the present and look at the past. I'm just like, well, what's the next thing? And what's the next thing? And so, I'm very driven that way, so my wife has to remind me.

• 10:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 10:49George Kamel?

  Hey, slow down, pause, enjoy life, instead of looking at the next thing ahead of you, so-

• 10:54Rachel Cruze?

  I will say, George, in all my spiritual research that I've been doing-

• 10:58George Kamel?

  She's been on her own journey.

• 10:59Rachel Cruze?

  Sitting in the present is like a really- It's a big deal. Like, it doesn't, people don't do that. But contemplative thoughtfulness of being in the moment is like a sign of like real deep peace. Like, there's something there that we don't.

• 11:13George Kamel?

  I need to hang out with a monk, I think, to get there.

• 11:15Rachel Cruze?

  I know, I want to too.

• 11:16George Kamel?

  Should we do it?

• 11:17Rachel Cruze?

  Should we go visit a monk?

• 11:18George Kamel?

  Well, I don't know, do they accept visitors? Is that a thing?

• 11:21Rachel Cruze?

  I think so. I think you can, yeah.

• 11:23George Kamel?

  Okay.

• 11:24Rachel Cruze?

  Or there's priests that like, you know, mystical priests in the Catholic Church that have, yes, that they like, kind of live a certain way. Again, it's a slower pace of life.

• 11:36George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 11:37Rachel Cruze?

  That I think we need more of.

• 11:38George Kamel?

  I think Americans naturally love just like.

• 11:40Rachel Cruze?

  I think the West kind of sucks. That's what I'm realizing, you know? There's something in the East that they just, they just, they have a level of calmness to them. But I think over time is good.

• 11:50George Kamel?

  And especially like Spain. I mean, they're doing siestas, like three hour lunch.

• 11:54Rachel Cruze?

  They close in the middle of the day. I know.

• 11:57George Kamel?

  Leave work.

• 11:57Rachel Cruze?

  And the walkability in Europe, we need to take that here to the new world.

• 12:00George Kamel?

  Hundred percent.

• 12:01Rachel Cruze?

  You know?

• 12:02George Kamel?

  All right, we can learn some things.

• 12:03Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, we should take over the world, George. Maybe that's what we should do.

• 12:06George Kamel?

  Wow. That's a strong statement.

• 12:08Rachel Cruze?

  We have all the answers.

• 12:10George Kamel?

  I'm curious, what changed in your 30s? I mean, you guys have had a lot of life change even the last five years.

• 12:15Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, we had third kid. We moved, built a home and moved. Winston quit his job.

• 12:23George Kamel?

  That was big.

• 12:23Rachel Cruze?

  Started a career, complete career shift.

• 12:26George Kamel?

  He's on his own journey.

• 12:27Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, yeah. So, yeah, we had a big career change in our house. Because up until that point, y'all, Winston and I were doing basically the same stuff that we were doing from when we got, started our careers. Six months into marriage, so it's been a while. Um, so, yeah, there's been some good shifts, but I think my 30s have been my favorite.

• 12:45George Kamel?

  Is it because of your stage of life with the kids?

• 12:48Rachel Cruze?

  Right now, yes. I do think, not everyone feels this way personally. I think the kids have gotten more fun the older they've been. Like, right now in life, this last, um, spring break trip we took, which was about probably two or three months ago from when we're filming this. Winston and I looked at each other multiple times on the trip and we're like, this is like actually genuinely so enjoyable. Cause for so long, it's like, you're not on vacation, you're on a trip. If you have the kids with you and then something just shifts when they can like.

• 13:18George Kamel?

  What age is that, like five?

• 13:19Rachel Cruze?

  I think five, I think five is kind of that magical number.

• 13:21George Kamel?

  I'm looking forward to that.

• 13:22Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, you got five years.

• 13:24George Kamel?

  At least.

• 13:25Rachel Cruze?

  Till, yeah, yeah, unless you have another one. Oh yeah, you're a start over and it's beautiful and it's great. It's chaotic and there's like beauty in every season, you know, all things. But there's something about the older kids and older elementary school age.

• 13:36George Kamel?

  And I think you guys have matured too. I mean, you've done some work, you've been working out physically.

• 13:41Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 13:42George Kamel?

  You know, therapy.

• 13:42Rachel Cruze?

  Done a lot of therapy. We've, yes, I don't know, it just feels, I feel like we're in a really good season.

• 13:47George Kamel?

  Just more like settled and less just searching and flippant. Yeah.

• 13:54Rachel Cruze?

  Winston uses a phrase a lot, it all belongs. So even when there's like chaos and we still have moments of like nuttiness or stuff that's happening.

• 14:01George Kamel?

  Is Winston a monk?

• 14:03Rachel Cruze?

  I think he might be.

• 14:04George Kamel?

  It feels very monkey.

• 14:04Rachel Cruze?

  I know, but he's like, listen, this is all part of it. And the moment you try to like reject stuff and be like, I gotta fix and control. You miss it. Like there's a part of like, I don't know.

• 14:13George Kamel?

  What a great reminder. Who knew you were gonna get this out of a Net Worth episode, guys? This is free content.

• 14:19Rachel Cruze?

  I'm telling you.

• 14:19George Kamel?

  Put this behind the paywall. This is some serious wisdom, Rachel Spitt.

• 14:22Rachel Cruze?

  That's how I feel about my 30s and I can't wait for my 40s. I feel like it's gonna get even better.

• 14:26George Kamel?

  Even better.

• 14:27Rachel Cruze?

  The 40s great, I think the 40s are great. I think you become, honestly, the older you get, I do think you just become more and more and more secure with yourself. And there's something about that, that it's like less performative.

• 14:38George Kamel?

  Yes, well, I think you also.

• 14:39Rachel Cruze?

  And it's really enjoyable.

• 14:40George Kamel?

  The older you get, the less you care what other people think. Which is really the best part of life.

• 14:45Rachel Cruze?

  It's very freeing. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

• 14:48George Kamel?

  Yeah, yeah. Sipping on a banana old fashioned, we're having a good time.

• 14:53Rachel Cruze?

  This is a great, this is good.

• 14:55George Kamel?

  Great episode so far. Any notes from the crew? All right, there's passing notes back there, so I was wondering if they had notes for us.

• 15:02Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh. All right, let's talk about, let's talk about America.

• 15:05George Kamel?

  Should we though?

• 15:06Rachel Cruze?

  Let's do the breakdown.

• 15:07George Kamel?

  We were having such a good time.

• 15:08Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know, were we?

• 15:09George Kamel?

  All right, let's talk about the data. Average net worth by age, again, the data starts with 35 or under. According to a survey of consumer finances published by the Federal Reserve, as of 2022, the average American has a median net worth of approximately $39,000 at age 35 or under.

• 15:27Rachel Cruze?

  All right. And in 2019, just three years prior, that number was just at 16,230. So it's more than doubled.

• 15:36George Kamel?

  There's some good news.

• 15:38Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, you're doing great.

• 15:39George Kamel?

  But when you think about the average net worth of $39,000, that's a little bit frightening to me. At 35. Now, 35 or under is a big break.

• 15:48Rachel Cruze?

  Because you think about a car and some equity and some house should probably be more than 40.

• 15:54George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 15:54Rachel Cruze?

  Right? If you combine all of that, like...

• 15:56George Kamel?

  What that tells me is Americans...

• 15:58Rachel Cruze?

  In retirement, I think about retirement.

• 15:59George Kamel?

  Yeah, they're not investing. They're probably in some pretty crippling debt.

• 16:02Rachel Cruze?

  Well, I was gonna say, probably debt, because it's taking away from the net worth number, so yeah.

• 16:06George Kamel?

  And just a reminder, the way you calculate your net worth is you take everything you own, that's your assets, so cars, the home equity, your savings, your retirement, minus what you owe, liabilities, so that's any debt you have. And so that total, average, 39 grand for 35 or under. So let's talk about, you know, the way to increase your net worth is twofold. Number one, putting money away in savings and investing. And number two is your home equity growing once you are a homeowner.

• 16:31Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and paying off debt.

• 16:32George Kamel?

  Yes. Paying off the debt will also increase it.

• 16:34Rachel Cruze?

  Is number one, yeah.

• 16:35George Kamel?

  Get rid of the negative side.

• 16:36Rachel Cruze?

  So get out of the hole, first and foremost, right? And then start saving. And then, yeah, if you own a home, the equity in it will go up year after year, which is a beautiful thing, so...

• 16:45George Kamel?

  That's a big part of your net worth. So when and how to invest? The simplest answer is, once you're out of debt, with a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. That's the foundation Rachel's talking about, of just getting... To the black.

• 16:59Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, totally.

• 17:00George Kamel?

  Instead of being on the red. So that's a big part for, that's a big milestone. That's why we celebrate, you know, the debt-free scream on the Ramsey Show.

• 17:06Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 17:07George Kamel?

  Because it's huge.

• 17:08Rachel Cruze?

  And for a lot of people, once they get out of debt, there's like an automatic increase with their net worth. Like, once they say, okay, I don't owe anything, automatically, what's been in the 401K that I've been putting away, even if it's a little bit they've been putting away, even before they started paying off debt. Because as you pay off debt, we say to pause retirement investing. But usually, most people have some level of investing that they've done. And then, yeah, and then if they own a home. So it really is a great thing.

• 17:33George Kamel?

  Yeah, so if this is you, if you're 35 or under, these are your goals, is to get out of all consumer debt, get that emergency fund, and then begin investing 15% into retirement. If you can do that before you're 35, you're in a great place. Because you still have 30 years of a working career to build up that nest egg and have compound growth work for you. So that's my advice to those folks.

• 17:54Rachel Cruze?

  All right, next up, we have 35 to 44. The average American median net worth is about $135,300. It feels like a lot. That's almost a $100,000 jump.

• 18:08George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 18:08Rachel Cruze?

  From the previous number.

• 18:09George Kamel?

  That's a decade between, almost. So I think that's a good, it's a good start.

• 18:14Rachel Cruze?

  Okay. Wow, George is so not impressed.

• 18:17George Kamel?

  Well, I'm just, I'm going, time is of the essence here. And at 44, to have 100 grand net worth, it still shows me that you're not investing enough, you're probably still dealing with debt. Now, this is for the average American. I hope people watching this, my guess is anybody that watches this show is doing far better than the average American.

• 18:34Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:35George Kamel?

  So again, this is the suck bar, as we say here at Ramsey. But it's still, at least, hey, if you have a six-figure net worth from 35 to 44, we're making progress.

• 18:44Rachel Cruze?

  It feels like a lot to me.

• 18:45George Kamel?

  It bodes well that we're at least moving up.

• 18:47Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, all right, we got 45 to 54. Average American's median net worth is about $246,700.

• 18:59George Kamel?

  Okay, about a quarter million.

• 19:01Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 19:03George Kamel?

  How does that hit you?

• 19:04Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, less impressive. I don't know why.

• 19:06George Kamel?

  Wow. What does it take to impress Rachel Cruz?

• 19:08Rachel Cruze?

  No, the other one was impressive to me. Thirty-five to forty-four at a hundred and thirty-five thousand.

• 19:12George Kamel?

  But you're like, you're headed to retirement at this point.

• 19:15Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's what I'm thinking. I mean, you're almost, you're getting there. And this is, again, including your home equity and retirement. And at fifty-four, like, you're starting to turn that corner.

• 19:27George Kamel?

  I'm guessing a lot of these folks, well, it's probably, now, this is the median, not the average. And so the median is just the number in the middle, because the averages can skew it. Because some people might have forty million dollars.

• 19:37Rachel Cruze?

  Right, right.

• 19:38George Kamel?

  But I think, looking at this median, I just go, they're probably not investing. And if they are investing, they're not investing enough. And they haven't changed their lifestyle for decades now. They're still kind of living above their means.

• 19:49Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 19:50George Kamel?

  Still hanging on to a car payment. Maybe they're still paying off student loans or credit card debt. And so I think this, what we're seeing is, the sooner you clean this mess up, the higher your net worth will be.

• 20:00Rachel Cruze?

  That's right. Yep. So good.

• 20:02George Kamel?

  Oof.

• 20:03Rachel Cruze?

  Well, here's another average American stat for you. In 2024, consumers reported losing over twelve point five billion dollars to fraud. A twenty-five percent increase from 2023.

• 20:15George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 20:16Rachel Cruze?

  That means our information on the internet is accessible, and people are taking it. And they are not doing great things with it, because we are losing money.

• 20:24George Kamel?

  That's scary.

• 20:24Rachel Cruze?

  And that's why Delete Me is so important to get.

• 20:28George Kamel?

  Yeah, this service will go across the entire internet with a real person behind the scenes and manually remove your data from these data broker sites. So anytime you've Googled yourself and you're like, how do they know my address? And my phone number and my email? That's scary enough, but the problem is scammers, spammers, AI impersonator, digital harassers, they can use this information against you to then cause some financial stress in your life.

• 20:51Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and the new thing is phishing.

• 20:53George Kamel?

  Oh, the phishing attacks, where they make you believe it's a real company, a real person.

• 20:57Rachel Cruze?

  It's like the advanced versions of scams, basically. And it gets so real because of technology and AI and everything. So you really want to protect yourself, because honestly, your information, your family's information is too important for it to be a billboard across the internet. So, again, Delete Me goes in and removes that information from these data broker websites. And this is what really gets me. These data brokers make money off of your information.

• 21:20George Kamel?

  It's just all gross.

• 21:21Rachel Cruze?

  You don't get to do that. That's my home address. Don't make money off me. I don't know you. I don't know you.

• 21:26George Kamel?

  This is a very dystopian world we live in. And so Delete Me keeps me safe, helps protect my family, gives me peace of mind, and it's very affordable. I mean, we're talking about nine bucks a month if you use our code. If you go to joindelete.me/smartmoney, you'll get 20% off their annual plans. We can also put a link in the description below if you want to check it out. This is worth it. We talk about taking control of your money. Now we got to take control of your digital privacy along with that.

• 21:50Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, very, very important. All right, next age group is 55 to 64.

• 21:55George Kamel?

  Oh, is this leaning into the boomers?

• 21:57Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, it is. This is the boomers. All right. So, average American's median net worth here, $364,270. So if you've been watching, George, it's been about 100-ish, 110,000 each-

• 22:10George Kamel?

  Per decade?

• 22:11Rachel Cruze?

  Per decade, yes. Does that feel like a right track for you?

• 22:14George Kamel?

  It does. It's still very depressing to me because, I mean, think about this. You're 60, you're in your early 60s, and you don't have much to show for it. You've worked your entire life, 40 years now, and you don't even have a few hundred thousand in a retirement account. This looks like they probably have some equity in their home. They've been putting a little bit of money away.

• 22:35Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, so the median house price right now is around $400,000 in America, right? So let's say, let's say your house is valued at 400,000 as the median. Okay, so let's say half of your mortgage is paid at this point. That's 200,000 of it. So that means you have 164,000 in retirement.

• 22:52George Kamel?

  That's not going to get you very far.

• 22:53Rachel Cruze?

  That's right. That's what you're saying. Like, when you actually break down the numbers.

• 22:57George Kamel?

  That scares me. And what that also tells me is people have been going backwards for a long period of time now. They've likely taken the HELOC to do the home renovation. And so they've, they've been turning to debt as a shortcut and solution for a long period of time. And the truth is, the older you get, the harder it is to undo a lot of this and to make progress. It's still possible. We get some inspiring calls of people who are like, "Hey, I was in my 50s when I heard about you guys, and now I'm 65 and retired and have a great life." But we also get some sad calls on The Ramsey Show where they're in their 60s and they're calling us saying, "Hey, I haven't invested anything. What do I do? I want to retire." And we have to tell them, hey, retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. And you haven't prepared for this stage of your life.

• 23:40Rachel Cruze?

  But the truth is, we say, like, it's never too late, right? Like, so there is a hope there, right? You can, it's never too late. But also, time is on your side. And the earlier you start with all of this, obviously, the better off you're gonna be. So as you do get older, it's not that you can't, it just gets harder. So I think that's what's difficult.

• 23:57George Kamel?

  And when you look at the power of compound growth, in your twenties, every dollar you invest turns into like twenty dollars in your nest egg. But when you're in your fifties and sixties, that dollar might turn into two.

• 24:08Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 24:08George Kamel?

  There's just less time for a compound growth to work. And so that's the hard reality of that. And so my, the sad joke is, your best bet is to build a time machine. Go back in time and invest.

• 24:20Rachel Cruze?

  George, geez.

• 24:21George Kamel?

  That's it.

• 24:22Rachel Cruze?

  That's not helpful.

• 24:23George Kamel?

  There's hope.

• 24:23Rachel Cruze?

  Be present, George, remember.

• 24:25George Kamel?

  If we can send Katy Perry to space, we can build time machines. I'd love to build a time machine where Katy Perry never went to space. And we didn't have to see her kiss the ground and say she found love. I'd love that reality. Moving on. Oh, we're getting, we're getting old now.

• 24:42Rachel Cruze?

  All right, here we are.

• 24:43George Kamel?

  We're getting elderly.

• 24:44Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh, sixty-five to seventy-four. We're gonna have some seventy-six-year-olds that'll be like, George.

• 24:49George Kamel?

  I don't know the definition of elderly, but I feel like seventy-four is up there.

• 24:52Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, well, I will say sixty-five to seventy-four.

• 24:54George Kamel?

  Sixty-five is young and spirited. That's Dave Ramsey's age.

• 24:57Rachel Cruze?

  My parents are sixty-five.

• 24:59George Kamel?

  Sharon lives like a forty-four-year-old.

• 25:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 25:03George Kamel?

  She's very active.

• 25:04Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, I would say that.

• 25:04George Kamel?

  She's in great shape, she eats very healthy. I'm not gonna speak to Dave, you can do that.

• 25:08Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I think Dave is fine.

• 25:10George Kamel?

  He's doing great.

• 25:11Rachel Cruze?

  He will barefoot ski still once a year. He walks with Bella, their little shih-tzu. And he golfs, yeah, so there's some activity there.

• 25:18George Kamel?

  He's always doing something exciting.

• 25:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, but, so, yeah, but once you hit, I mean, the seventies, George, like, yeah, you're getting there. So you do have to genuinely think, so you may start slowing down. There may be more sicknesses prone to health stuff, right? The older you get, so this is a time period to think about. But this is the peak of the data. Are you ready for this?

• 25:40George Kamel?

  All right, what's the median net worth?

• 25:42Rachel Cruze?

  Four hundred and ten thousand dollars.

• 25:45George Kamel?

  Oh, boy. I was really hoping for more. Because what we see there, it didn't go up by that hundred thousand.

• 25:50Rachel Cruze?

  Isn't it just not enough for you? I hope your children feel encouraged in life, George.

• 25:53George Kamel?

  I'm just saying.

• 25:54Rachel Cruze?

  I was just hoping for more. Is that what you're gonna say? When they come in like, "Dad, I got a 94 on my math test." I was hoping for more.

• 26:00George Kamel?

  That will be me.

• 26:02Rachel Cruze?

  George.

• 26:03George Kamel?

  My kids will be acing their tests. Now they won. I don't care. Tests are stupid.

• 26:07Rachel Cruze?

  I agree.

• 26:08George Kamel?

  That's my hot take.

• 26:09Rachel Cruze?

  Me, too.

• 26:10George Kamel?

  How's your social skills? That's what's more important in this life.

• 26:13Rachel Cruze?

  Actually?

• 26:13George Kamel?

  Not your test-taking abilities.

• 26:14Rachel Cruze?

  There has been studies on this, that in the workplace, you could advance with who you know and who you're friends with more.

• 26:19George Kamel?

  That's, I've seen it.

• 26:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 26:20George Kamel?

  I've been here a long time. The people who win, they're just good with people.

• 26:24Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:25George Kamel?

  And you have to be good at your job.

• 26:26Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:27George Kamel?

  But just because you got an A doesn't mean you're gonna be great in the workplace.

• 26:29Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, no.

• 26:30George Kamel?

  That's my hot take.

• 26:31Rachel Cruze?

  That's good.

• 26:31George Kamel?

  Yeah, 410,000, because I think about this. You are like knee-deep in retirement at this point.

• 26:36Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 26:37George Kamel?

  With your entire net worth being $400,000. And what we've seen is, in our millionaire study, where we surveyed 10,000 of them, the average millionaire hit that at 49 years old.

• 26:46Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:47George Kamel?

  And they're not even halfway there into their 60s and 70s.

• 26:50Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, wait. Say that again. That's good.

• 26:52George Kamel?

  The average millionaire in our millionaire study

• 26:54Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 26:54George Kamel?

  hit that net worth milestone at 49 years old.

• 26:57Rachel Cruze?

  49 versus 64 to 74. Yeah.

• 26:59George Kamel?

  So that's where I'm like, you're not even halfway there.

• 27:01Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, that's good.

• 27:03George Kamel?

  And you're 20, you know.

• 27:03Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 27:04George Kamel?

  That's just, that hurts my heart.

• 27:05Rachel Cruze?

  And you think about this, that when we say about investing, that you can live off of the returns, right? Once you get, you know, you don't have to touch the principal. But again, 410,000, let's just say 200,000 is in the house. And 200, and that's 20,000 a year.

• 27:19George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Rachel Cruze?

  At 10%.

• 27:21George Kamel?

  Not great. I don't know about you, but that's poverty line.

• 27:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 27:25George Kamel?

  So, not great. Does it go, now that was the peak, so it's gotta go down 75 plus.

• 27:30Rachel Cruze?

  75 plus is 334,700 net worth. That's kind of depressing that it goes down. I guess because you're not, you're not... Putting more in because of no income because you're retired.

• 27:42George Kamel?

  Yeah, that's true. You're no longer contributing and you're only depleting at this point.

• 27:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 27:46George Kamel?

  I'm glad we have a drink because this is a sobering episode. Tell you that much. I knew this was not going to be our most fun episode. We decided we're gonna make it fun.

• 27:55Rachel Cruze?

  We're gonna try to.

• 27:56George Kamel?

  But so far, these stats are not great, but I hope, at the very least, it gives you sort of a baseline to know that you're doing okay.

• 28:03Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 28:04George Kamel?

  This is what's average. Again, we say average sucks. Don't be average. Don't be normal. Be weird. And I think everyone watching the show, I hope you all retire with at least a million dollar net worth. Not because it's a flex, but because you're gonna have a better life. You can retire with dignity.

• 28:19Rachel Cruze?

  Yep. You know what creates a better life for me?

• 28:21George Kamel?

  What's that?

• 28:22Rachel Cruze?

  Cozy earth sheets.

• 28:23George Kamel?

  Oh my goodness. Just placed an order last night.

• 28:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 28:26George Kamel?

  It was like Christmas morning. I can't wait to get it.

• 28:28Rachel Cruze?

  What'd you buy?

• 28:28George Kamel?

  I got the clogs that I've mentioned.

• 28:30Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, okay.

• 28:31George Kamel?

  Can't wait to see that. Those are my like my house slippers.

• 28:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 28:34George Kamel?

  I needed an upgrade.

• 28:35Rachel Cruze?

  I love it.

• 28:35George Kamel?

  Got some joggers.

• 28:36Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 28:37George Kamel?

  A little matching tee.

• 28:38Rachel Cruze?

  Good.

• 28:39George Kamel?

  To wear out. Errands on the weekends.

• 28:41Rachel Cruze?

  Got a set?

• 28:42George Kamel?

  Yeah. I got a button up shirt.

• 28:43Rachel Cruze?

  And that stuff is gonna be, is it the soft stuff?

• 28:45George Kamel?

  It's buttery.

• 28:46Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh, that's so nice.

• 28:47George Kamel?

  It's like the brushed bamboo.

• 28:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, it's the bamboo stuff. And that's what's great for summer because this stuff is like breathable. So whether it's the sheets or that material that you got for your clothes, that bamboo, it's like, it's light, it's easy. I mean, it is so nice.

• 29:01George Kamel?

  It was buttery. I can't wait to wear it. I'm gonna impress you. And I got some no show socks. As you know, I'm hanging on to the millennial dream.

• 29:09Rachel Cruze?

  He loves an ankle.

• 29:09George Kamel?

  Showing a little skin. I don't know what Gen Z is doing with these knee high socks with weird shorts and their broccoli haircuts. But I'm not, I'm not falling for it. I'm personally done with it.

• 29:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yep. So and your socks are gonna say cozy earth.

• 29:23George Kamel?

  That's true.

• 29:24Rachel Cruze?

  Cozy Earth products, you guys, it is worth it. And even the summer, they have so many great options. And you actually bought a button up.

• 29:29George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 29:30Rachel Cruze?

  You show me that. Looks nice too.

• 29:31George Kamel?

  Well, they have the whole, you know, like this beat the heat vibe on Cozy Earth. And so I went for all the things that are cozy, but also I won't sweat it.

• 29:38Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 29:38George Kamel?

  Because you know me, if I sweat, I'm going home.

• 29:40Rachel Cruze?

  You're done.

• 29:40George Kamel?

  Yeah. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home if I break a sweat. And so.

• 29:43Rachel Cruze?

  Not doing that. Not living this hard life. He's worked too hard for that.

• 29:47George Kamel?

  Casual cozy summer.

• 29:49Rachel Cruze?

  It's, it is amazing. And we have an amazing discount for our viewers.

• 29:53George Kamel?

  Yes, up to 40% off. If you use the code SMARTMONEY at checkout. You can go to cozyearth.com/smartmoney. We'll also drop the link in the description below. Have a cozy summer and beat the heat out there. How about that?

• 30:06Rachel Cruze?

  All right, George, let's wrap it up with what are your future goals? Like, when you look, we're both in our late 30s. We got our 40s, we got our 50s, we got our 60s. We still got three solid decades.

• 30:15George Kamel?

  Oh, gosh.

• 30:16Rachel Cruze?

  Maybe even our 70s.

• 30:16George Kamel?

  I'm tired thinking about that.

• 30:18Rachel Cruze?

  We still got 40, I mean, like, that's a, we got a lot. It's great. What do you, like, what do you want? What are you thinking?

• 30:23George Kamel?

  At this stage of life, I'm thinking about how to set up my kids for financial success, how to not ruin them with entitlement, because, truthfully, my kids are gonna have such a different life than the one I grew up with. And I had a great life growing up.

• 30:36Rachel Cruze?

  Sure, yeah, yeah.

• 30:37George Kamel?

  But we've worked so hard to get ourselves to a great place financially that it's like, how much do I give my kids a leg up versus sort of letting them earn it and feel that sense of independence?

• 30:47Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, yes.

• 30:48George Kamel?

  So that's, that's kind of the struggle now. And then also, figuring out, okay, we're, we're doing some great saving goals. How do we now enjoy some of our money and spend it more? How do we give more to things that we really care about? So those are the good problems to have in your 30s. And also bumping up, you know, the comfort level in our life. So those are our kind of big goals. How about you guys?

• 31:11Rachel Cruze?

  Um, big goals, I would say, yeah, the kids thing is big. I would totally echo everything you just said. And it's a, it's a pretty constant conversation in our household of like, okay, how do we do this well? You know, how do we raise them? How do we manufacture some grit? Because it's like, guys, you're gonna have to figure this world out. Um, I would say generosity's been big for me recently. Because it is weird that, and I feel like, I don't want to feel out of touch by saying this, but it's just where we're at, that I'm like, you can be in a rhythm of giving money, because we've been in that rhythm for 15 years of our marriage.

• 31:43George Kamel?

  It was a habit early on for you guys.

• 31:44Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and it's just a continual thing, and it's beautiful and wonderful. But the commodity that now I hold so precious now has shifted from money to time.

• 31:53George Kamel?

  Hmm.

• 31:54Rachel Cruze?

  And so giving that part is harder for me. That's more of a sacrifice. And so, once I've talked about that, how do we take that part, include the kid, the kids with, you know, levels of generosity, where we actually physically go and do stuff? And, and we're with people, and we serve, and we do all of that. So that's something that I've been thinking about. And then travel. There's something about the experiences that I love. I just love it.

• 32:18George Kamel?

  You do love to travel.

• 32:20Rachel Cruze?

  I will plan a vacation on a vacation. I'm like that kind of person. Cause I'm just like, there's something about getting away, seeing other cultures too. Like I wanna go big. So like I have Asia on my bucket list.

• 32:30George Kamel?

  Oh, that's fun.

• 32:31Rachel Cruze?

  That would be fun.

• 32:31George Kamel?

  Anywhere specific? That's a pretty big continent.

• 32:33Rachel Cruze?

  Thailand would be fun.

• 32:34George Kamel?

  Yep.

• 32:35Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, Bora Bora while we're over there. You know, might as well.

• 32:37George Kamel?

  Might as well.

• 32:38Rachel Cruze?

  Might as well just stop by.

• 32:39George Kamel?

  What about an overwater bungalow? Is that in the picture?

• 32:41Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Isn't that, it's a bucket list thing for me. You see them everywhere on Instagram. Like that would be so fun. Tokyo? I would go like big city. Like, yeah, all of that. I wanna take my kids to Israel.

• 32:52George Kamel?

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 32:53Rachel Cruze?

  That's a bucket list for me when they like hit middle school, high school. I don't know. There's something about going and traveling that I would, I would put my money there over um, like upgrading a car or something.

• 33:03George Kamel?

  Just stuff.

• 33:04Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I think I'm at that point.

• 33:06George Kamel?

  Yeah, especially while the kids are young and can enjoy it and you're creating some amazing memories, building character.

• 33:11Rachel Cruze?

  Are you ready for this? Winston said this the other day and I was like, oh gosh. He said with Amelia as she turned 10. He said, now I've shifted from counting up to counting down. Like now we only have eight more years with her. Like you kinda shift as a parent where before you're like, I can't wait till they get to this. And you kind of have this like, and then now it's like, oh my gosh, now we're looking at when they're leaving us. Like we're kind of at that, which is so weird.

• 33:31George Kamel?

  Yeah, I went to one of these like baby blessing things. They have like the marbles in one jar and then the empty one and they go, for every week.

• 33:37Rachel Cruze?

  What's a baby blessing?

• 33:38George Kamel?

  I don't know what it's.

• 33:39Rachel Cruze?

  Is it orthodox?

• 33:40George Kamel?

  No.

• 33:40Rachel Cruze?

  Oh man, okay.

• 33:41George Kamel?

  I forget what it's called. I'm probably just miss, it's not a baptism.

• 33:44Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 33:45George Kamel?

  The dedication.

• 33:46Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, a dedication. Sure.

• 33:47George Kamel?

  I don't understand why we do that, but it's a beautiful thing.

• 33:50Rachel Cruze?

  Like in front of the church?

• 33:51George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Rachel Cruze?

  It's not like a baptism.

• 33:52George Kamel?

  It was like just close friends and family. It wasn't part of a church service.

• 33:54Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, okay.

• 33:55George Kamel?

  But it's like, are babies getting dedicated? So it was a beautiful thing, but they have this thing with the marbles and they go, okay, every one of these marbles represents a week of your child's life.

• 34:03Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 34:03George Kamel?

  And so you see the marbles start to dwindle and start to go, oh, there's less on this side now.

• 34:07Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:08George Kamel?

  And so like, when you think about Amelia, you're like, we have eight summers left with her.

• 34:12Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 34:12George Kamel?

  And that's if she doesn't go away one summer to a camp, you know?

• 34:15Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, sure, totally.

• 34:15George Kamel?

  That's just crazy to think about.

• 34:16Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, it is weird. It is weird.

• 34:17George Kamel?

  But right now I'm in the phase of like, oh my gosh, I can't wait till they're older and we can, you know?

• 34:21Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, that's it. That's it. That's the shit.

• 34:22George Kamel?

  That's the struggle of a parent.

• 34:23Rachel Cruze?

  And I do, and I do have another side of me to that where I'm like, cause I'll see Instagram videos and they're like, you only have 18 summers with your kids, you know? But then I'm like, my parents are over at our house.

• 34:33George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 34:33Rachel Cruze?

  You don't even mean like you're, like you're still in relationship with your kids. Like, and my parents would say, this is the most fun. They like having adult kids and grandkids so they can send back with us. Like they, so I do think there's a life after them, obviously turning 18 for sure. I recognize that. But I do think their ability to be with you in those times is way less than when they're under your roof. So there's something about them being captive under our roof where I'm like, what can we do with you while you're here and you don't have any other options?

• 35:01George Kamel?

  Yeah, you're stuck with us.

• 35:02Rachel Cruze?

  You're stuck with us.

• 35:02George Kamel?

  You're going to Thailand.

• 35:03Rachel Cruze?

  You're going to Thailand.

• 35:07Rachel Cruze?

  So, yeah.

• 35:07George Kamel?

  That's beautiful.

• 35:08Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 35:09George Kamel?

  Well, I think it ties back into this net worth conversation because we talk about how parents need to put their own mask on first. They need to be investing in retirement before they try to help their kids and invest in college. Make sure that you're prepared for retirement.

• 35:21Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 35:21George Kamel?

  So that your kids don't have to take on the burden of covering your lack of retirement planning.

• 35:26Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 35:27George Kamel?

  Those are some heartbreaking calls on The Ramsey Show of, hey, my mom's 78. She has nothing invested.

• 35:32Rachel Cruze?

  We get that a lot. Of grown kids calling us about their parents not being able to do stuff. We get that a lot.

• 35:37George Kamel?

  It's the sandwich generation. They're stuck between trying to take care of their kids financially and take care of their parents financially. And so my goal is to never be a burden to my kids.

• 35:44Rachel Cruze?

  I love that.

• 35:45George Kamel?

  Financially. I will be, I will bother them. I will annoy them to no end for the rest of their life. But I don't want to be a financial burden.

• 35:51Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 35:52George Kamel?

  So.

• 35:52Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and if you guys, you know, need a starting place, maybe you are kind of newer to all of this, FPU is a great place to go. It is our nine lesson course that basically gives you the rundown of all of this to set you up well so that, yeah, so as you get older, you can have dignity in yourself with your finances, you're not having to depend on other people, and there's something beautiful about that.

• 36:12George Kamel?

  Absolutely. And I talk about this concept in my book, Rachel, of I want to talk about money so that we can stop talking about money. As nerdy as I am and I love talking about it.

• 36:22Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 36:22George Kamel?

  I think it's wise to talk about it, to get our money right, so that we can focus on other things that actually matter in our life. Because we talk about how money is a tool. It's not the end goal.

• 36:31Rachel Cruze?

  That's it.

• 36:32George Kamel?

  And the same applies to your net worth. What are you doing with that net worth? Well, wealth is a tool to bless others, to impact your family, to be generous, to live your best life.

• 36:41Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 36:41George Kamel?

  And when you don't have it, it's just harder to do that.

• 36:43Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 36:44George Kamel?

  And so that's why it's, it's a decent measuring stick, but it's not the end all, be all.

• 36:48Rachel Cruze?

  Well, it's weird on both sides of the spectrum. It's an idol. So it's an idol if you are spending it out of control, trying to be something. And live this life that's above your means, but yet you're like coveting it and you're like, this is all I want. But then it can be an idol if you hold it so closely and so tight. Or maybe you're obsessed because you don't have it and it's stressing you out and it's all you think about. Right? So like, we don't want money to be the center part of your life. So how do you create a sense where you have it under control and then it is a tool. It is the thing that helps you live your life. It's not your life.

• 37:20George Kamel?

  And we've said that money just makes you more of who you are.

• 37:23Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 37:23George Kamel?

  And so it's not like your life's gonna be so much better because you have a $5 million net worth. You go with you.

• 37:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 37:28George Kamel?

  And so if you haven't had a purpose behind all of that, you're just gonna go, well, I guess the goalpost needs to move now to $10 million.

• 37:34Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:34George Kamel?

  You're just gonna keep chasing the next net worth goal with no real purpose. And so I think it's wise to realize, uh, you shouldn't be chasing status at the expense of enjoying your life, but also don't procrastinate future wealth building at the expense of present day comfort. So it's all about balance.

• 37:49Rachel Cruze?

  I love it. I think it's true. It's so true.

• 37:51George Kamel?

  Beautifully said.

• 37:51Rachel Cruze?

  So good, George. So great.

• 37:53George Kamel?

  I really enjoyed this episode.

• 37:54Rachel Cruze?

  Man, are we monks? We might be monks. I don't know.

• 37:57George Kamel?

  I don't know if they'd let me. I'd never met a monk with glasses. Do they let? I just, it's anecdotal. I'm sure they're out there.

• 38:04Rachel Cruze?

  I think they have prescriptions. Like, I think it's like-

• 38:07George Kamel?

  But then do I need to shave my head?

• 38:08Rachel Cruze?

  Prescription lenses.

• 38:09George Kamel?

  Can I have, like, can they use hair product?

• 38:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I'm not sure.

• 38:12George Kamel?

  Do they own blow dryers? I have a lot of questions.

• 38:15Rachel Cruze?

  That's a good, you know, I feel a little ignorant now. I, I opened up this door and I can't walk fully through it with complete confidence. So I can't give any more information.

• 38:23George Kamel?

  Can I tell you one reason Rachel can't be a monk? She likes to talk.

• 38:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 38:27George Kamel?

  It's like the whole point of monkdom is to just, whoop, shut it. Oh, we found a monk with glasses.

• 38:33Rachel Cruze?

  So, oh, okay. We got it.

• 38:34George Kamel?

  Is that what you're showing us?

• 38:34Rachel Cruze?

  We're good. We're good.

• 38:35George Kamel?

  What about with hair? Hey, all right.

• 38:38Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 38:38George Kamel?

  Good luck.

• 38:39Rachel Cruze?

  We got this.

• 38:41George Kamel?

  What's a female? Are there female monks? Are they, are they called funks?

• 38:47George Kamel?

  More questions have arisen.

• 38:49Rachel Cruze?

  We have a lot of studying to do.

• 38:51George Kamel?

  Is it like a, like a, a pope where they have to be male?

• 38:55Rachel Cruze?

  I don't, I mean, honestly, I'm not sure.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Female monks are called nuns.

• 38:59Rachel Cruze?

  Nuns.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Nuns.

• 39:00Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, wow.

• 39:01George Kamel?

  That's on the Catholic side though, right?

• 39:03Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, because there's Buddhist monks.

• 39:05George Kamel?

  Yeah, like a Buddhist monk.

• 39:06Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, there's a Buddhist monk.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  In Buddhism, female monks are called nuns.

• 39:09Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, still. All right. We're still the same words. Okay.

• 39:12George Kamel?

  I just learned today that nuns are not relegated to Catholicism.

• 39:16Rachel Cruze?

  Me too? No, there's Anglican nuns.

• 39:19George Kamel?

  Egg on my face.

• 39:20Rachel Cruze?

  Y'all, this is it. This is why we need to go to Thailand. We need to learn more.

• 39:24George Kamel?

  Can I be honest? Most of my knowledge of this world comes from Nacho Libre, which I can't imagine is accurate, but it is entertaining.

• 39:32Rachel Cruze?

  Probably not. Man.

• 39:35George Kamel?

  There we go. I'm glad we ended on a high note of me being an idiot.

• 39:37Rachel Cruze?

  I think it's a big world out there, George. We gotta go explore it. And that's why you need money to go and travel and explore this world.

• 39:44George Kamel?

  Way to put a bow on it, Rachel.

• 39:45Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh. All right. Before we spill the tea on our guilty as charged segment, share what was in the drink, George.

• 39:51George Kamel?

  This is the banana Old Fashioned. This costs $2.69 per drink. The ingredients are simple: bourbon, banana syrup, and black walnut bitters. And mixologist Michael told us he made the banana syrup from scratch. Instead of using like a banana liqueur, which could be used to sweeten it, he decided to go the extra mile. And he said it's lighter because of that. The banana flavor is not as forward, but I enjoy that because, again, I don't love banana. I think it's too strong of a flavor.

• 40:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 40:20George Kamel?

  If it's in a smoothie, you're just drinking a banana smoothie with a hint of strawberry.

• 40:25Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 40:26George Kamel?

  You know what I mean? It's like mustard. It's just gonna punch through.

• 40:28Rachel Cruze?

  Just gonna happen.

• 40:29George Kamel?

  And be the star, the lead, the main character.

• 40:32Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah. Dang you, banana. Just be a little more humble.

• 40:35George Kamel?

  But goodness gracious, this is good. What's your rating on it?

• 40:37Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, y'all, I'd make a 10 out of 10. I like an Old Fashioned, and this has an interest to it. This would be a fun drink that if you knew a bartender could make it really well somewhere for a group of friends, like, guys, I have had a banana Old Fashioned. Y'all are gonna love it. Let's all order one. Like, it'd be a fun, like, party trick kind of drink. You know what I mean?

• 40:57George Kamel?

  I love that.

• 40:58Rachel Cruze?

  I think it would be more of a social trick for me, like a social drink, than like if I was out on a date night. Like, if I was just with Winston, I'm probably going like my dirty martini. But this would be like a peek of interest of like, guys, have you heard?

• 41:10George Kamel?

  Oh, so Rachel would do it to impress her friends, but not Winston?

• 41:13Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's it. I think that's it. That's the strength for me.

• 41:16George Kamel?

  It's not as like exciting to do this with Winston. He's like, ah, Rachel is just a banana.

• 41:21Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, it's a party trick drink to me.

• 41:24George Kamel?

  I'm gonna go 10 out of 10.

• 41:26Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, but it's delicious.

• 41:27George Kamel?

  And coming from a guy who hates banana. So I say that to say, you should go make this. Recipe is in the show notes. Prove us wrong.

• 41:35Rachel Cruze?

  All right, George, now it's time for

• 41:37George Kamel?

  Guilty as Charged.

• 41:39Rachel Cruze?

  And this is where we ask each other a new guilty as charged question every week. And if we're guilty, we take a sip. All right, George, you ready?

• 41:45George Kamel?

  Hit me.

• 41:46Rachel Cruze?

  Have you ever been underwhelmed or unfulfilled after achieving a financial milestone?

• 41:53George Kamel?

  Oh, that's a pretty deep cut.

• 41:56Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 41:57George Kamel?

  I'll say for the Camels, I think paying off the house, while a really fun milestone, it was a little bit underwhelming.

• 42:05Rachel Cruze?

  Was it? Okay.

• 42:06George Kamel?

  From the experience at the bank, which was lackluster, to say the least. You know, I expected like a confetti, a balloon.

• 42:12Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, where's the party?

• 42:13George Kamel?

  Some music. It was just like 10 minutes of a lady typing, trying to like do a wire transfer to the mortgage company.

• 42:19Rachel Cruze?

  Totally, yeah.

• 42:20George Kamel?

  And then she's just like, all right, it will be complete in 24 to 48 hours. Like, it didn't even just happen. I have to then still wait?

• 42:27Rachel Cruze?

  Totally, yes.

• 42:28George Kamel?

  For a wire transfer. And it's not like they notify you.

• 42:30Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 42:30George Kamel?

  And so the most exciting part is like, two weeks later, you get a thing in the mail that's like mortgage payoff paper. Congratulations, you're done with us. So that was a little bit underwhelming, the experience. And then on the other side, you're like, well, there's still more expenses. You still got to cover your property taxes, your insurance.

• 42:47Rachel Cruze?

  Right, right.

• 42:47George Kamel?

  Every other bill you had in your life. So it was a really fun milestone and did free up a lot of margin that we could now use to give, save and spend and more important things.

• 42:56Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 42:56George Kamel?

  It was just one of those like, I thought there was gonna be a little more fanfare.

• 42:59Rachel Cruze?

  A party. Where's my party? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair.

• 43:01George Kamel?

  How about you guys?

• 43:04Rachel Cruze?

  Winston and I, we were probably, gosh, maybe three or four years into marriage. And I think it was his idea. He was like, hey, let's have this money goal to get to X amount in our savings.

• 43:15George Kamel?

  Love it.

• 43:15Rachel Cruze?

  Like in our money market account. So we kind of like, yeah, because having a goal is good. So we're like, yeah, let's like, you know, not just spend everything, but we'll figure out. And then when we hit the goal, and I was kind of like, okay, what am I gonna do with that? Like, you know, it's beyond our...

• 43:30George Kamel?

  The money didn't have a goal. The goal was just like, build this exact stack of money.

• 43:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, it was like a number goal.

• 43:35George Kamel?

  Do you think that's why?

• 43:37Rachel Cruze?

  I think, because I was like, okay.

• 43:38George Kamel?

  There's no real why behind it.

• 43:39Rachel Cruze?

  It wasn't an emergency fund of like, oh, gosh, I need some cash in the bank just in case something happens and it feels good. Like, it was just a number. And so that's why, I think, since that experience, I just don't, I'm not a big fan of like a goal as a number.

• 43:52George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 43:53Rachel Cruze?

  Like, I want to have a million dollars by the time I'm 50 or whatever, like... Again,

• 43:59George Kamel?

  Milestone for the sake of milestones.

• 44:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, because I'm like, okay, well, you get that. But like, what are you going to do with that? Like, what do you like? I would rather have a goal where there's an experience or a purchase attached to it.

• 44:09George Kamel?

  Like your pool. That was more fun for you because like, well, at the end, there is a pool instead of a number and an account.

• 44:15Rachel Cruze?

  By that, like, we've used it. I mean, it has been like a, an element of our family that's been so fun. And it's only been like three months, but.

• 44:22George Kamel?

  And you haven't even invited me over yet. So just wait until that. Then it's going to really feel fulfilling.

• 44:26Rachel Cruze?

  Then I'll be like,

• 44:27George Kamel?

  to have the camels over.

• 44:28Rachel Cruze?

  He made it. He made it.

• 44:29George Kamel?

  I'm excited for the kids to teach me how to swim, too. You have floaties in my size?

• 44:33Rachel Cruze?

  George, you can swim.

• 44:36George Kamel?

  Sure.

• 44:36Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, do you do this as swimming?

• 44:38George Kamel?

  I'm not going to drown. You're just going to go. You call that swimming? It's more of that, you know what I mean?

• 44:43Rachel Cruze?

  Feeling, yeah, okay.

• 44:44George Kamel?

  I hang in the shallow end with Charles.

• 44:46Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh, George.

• 44:48George Kamel?

  We brown down with our mocktails.

• 44:49Rachel Cruze?

  George.

• 44:50George Kamel?

  That's fun. That's a fun one. But that's a good reminder to everyone that money is not going to make or break you and hitting a certain goal is not going to make like, yes, I'm fulfilled now.

• 45:01Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 45:02George Kamel?

  Continue your joke. I know you're laughing at my expense.

• 45:04Rachel Cruze?

  They keep laughing at me and I did this.

• 45:06George Kamel?

  Is that a heart? I couldn't see from my angle.

• 45:08Rachel Cruze?

  Love you, George.

• 45:10George Kamel?

  See, I feel like it's condescending and sarcastic when you do the motion with it.

• 45:14Rachel Cruze?

  No, it's just a Taylor Swift thing.

• 45:16George Kamel?

  Oh, is it?

• 45:17Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 45:17George Kamel?

  I didn't know that.

• 45:18Rachel Cruze?

  Hmm, yeah, all right. Okay, tell people to DM us.

• 45:21George Kamel?

  DM us your guilty as charged questions. I've been getting a bunch lately and we love them. I send them to the producers and then we use them in future episodes. So Instagram at Rachel Cruz or at George Kamel with a K. And we will use them in a future episode if they're good and we haven't used them before.

• 45:36Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 45:36George Kamel?

  There you go.

• 45:37Rachel Cruze?

  Love it, George. Thanks so much. And listen, it's one thing to be at peace when we compare ourselves to other people. But have you ever felt like our parents had it way easier than we did when it comes to wealth building? Well, make sure to check out our episode, Do We Have It Harder Financially Than Our Parents? So click there. Or if you're listening on podcast, we will leave a link below. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.