#62 Sean Webb - How Artificial Intelligence will Manipulate the World

With the recent departure of one of Google's top engineers Geoffrey Hinton, Artificial Intelligence is the topic on everyone's mind. What is it? Where is it going? How will these advancements affect our everyday lives? Sean Webb is here to cover it all. As the author of "Mind Hacking Happiness" and through his work with the Monroe Institute, Webb has become one of the foremost authorities on AI & Consciousness. In this episode, Webb walks us through his own enlightening experiences with consciousness and spirituality. He provides some amazing direction to take control of your own mind and emotions. He also sheds light on some misinformation around AI and lays out where the real problems and disruptions lie. This episode will give you the tools you need to future proof yourself for what's next. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://drinkAG1.com/srs https://ziprecruiter.com/srs https://bubsnaturals.com - USE CODE "SHAWN" https://preparewithshawn.com https://blackbuffalo.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://moinkbox.com/srs Sean Webb Links: Website - https://mindhackinghappiness.com/ Volume I - https://www.audible.com/pd/Mind-Hacking-Happiness-Volume-I-Audiobook/B071W7BRFB?source_code=AUDFPWS0223189MWT-BK-ACX0-087885&ref=acx_bty_BK_ACX0_087885_rh_us Volume II - https://www.audible.com/pd/Mind-Hacking-Happiness-Audiobook/B074TYB2RM?source_code=AUDFPWS0223189MWT-BK-ACX0-093958&ref=acx_bty_BK_ACX0_093958_rh_us Pre-Order The Human Mind Owner's Manual - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7M1N36F The Monroe Institute - https://www.monroeinstitute.org Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mindhackinghappiness Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mindhackinghappiness Download SRS Content Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  On October 2nd.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 0:24Speaker 02

  I'm not the first then.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not admitted without parent.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by Tic Tac. Lace up and get your game on because the Tic Tac lineup just got a new teammate. Dr. Pepper Tic Tac. This new double threat puts two of your favorite flavors into one box of mints. And when two iconic flavors come together, the result can only be iconic. Score big. Try Dr. Pepper Tic Tac today.

• 0:54Shawn Ryan?

  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Sean Ryan Show. This week is a fascinating episode. We talk about two different topics and then we tie them in. First topic is all about human consciousness. Second topic is all about artificial intelligence. And why we're covering these two topics? We're tying them together because we are talking about how artificial intelligence is going to manipulate the entire human population through the algorithm of human emotion. Pretty fascinating stuff and scary. There's good news at the end of this, though, so you know, some of these can get kind of heavy. On another note, we have noticed a lot of you are repurposing our content, creating your own content from these episodes.

• 1:40Shawn Ryan?

  We love it. We thought we'd make it super easy on you. So if you go below in the description, we have a folder down below that has all kinds of raw reels that we've cut for you guys. So you can take them, create whatever you want with it. All we ask is that you tag. Sean Ryan Show in your content. You can monetize it, make money off it, whatever you want to do. Just link back to the show and guess what? If we like it, we'll repost it on our own social media channels. So there's that. Once again, that link's below. Ladies and gentlemen, please like, comment, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Head over to Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

• 2:25Shawn Ryan?

  Leave us a review. Tell us how we're doing. And ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome Sean Webb from the Monroe Institute to the Sean Ryan Show.

• 2:40Shawn Ryan?

  Sean Webb, welcome to the show, man.

• 2:43Sean Webb?

  Thank you, sir.

• 2:44Shawn Ryan?

  Sean Webb, welcome to the Sean Ryan Show.

• 2:46Sean Webb?

  I know, right?

• 2:48Shawn Ryan?

  First Sean I've interviewed.

• 2:49Sean Webb?

  That's cool.

• 2:50Shawn Ryan?

  So, but man, we've been going back and forth for, I think you, we first had contact back in 2020, I believe.

• 2:58Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:59Shawn Ryan?

  And we've been going back and forth for a while and, and man, we had a very fascinating phone conversation and, and last night you just blew my mind at dinner. And man, I've been looking forward to this interview. I'm really excited to talk to you about all this stuff. Human consciousness, the Monroe Institute.

• 3:24Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 3:25Shawn Ryan?

  AI. This is gonna be a hell of an episode.

• 3:28Sean Webb?

  Yeah, it's gonna be fun. You know, it kind of blew my mind when we were talking a few weeks ago about like something else. And you're like, you know, you know, what, what's going on with your work? And, you know, and we talked about how my mind stuff was bleeding into artificial emotional intelligence. And then all of a sudden, like a week ago, all these headlines came out, like Elon Musk stopping his schedule to go fly to Congress to implore them to pause or put regulations on AI development. And the heads of state and AI development, like the head tech people are all like, maybe we need to put a pause on this for a little while. And then like a few days ago, the top Google engineer for AI resigned in fear. And that's like, not hyperbole, that's like the headline, like he admits that he left Google

• 4:12Sean Webb?

  because of the fear of what he helped create. And that he wants to get away from Google and start talking about the dangers of AI and that he regrets working on it for the last 10 years. It's like, holy shit, we need to talk about this.

• 4:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, it's, it's. Very concerning. I don't think, I don't even have a

• 4:34Shawn Ryan?

  I have a small fraction of how this is gonna affect us, but I think that this makes

• 4:43Shawn Ryan?

  humans completely irrelevant in a lot of different sectors in today.

• 4:49Sean Webb?

  It's certainly gonna affect everybody listening to this. Like, everyone who is in earshot of this conversation is gonna be affected by it. But the good news is, there's a way that we can talk about it and have everybody understand what's going on here. And we can explain it from the very simplistic nature of what AI is all about. And we'll take all the uncertainty out of the fear. There are certainly some things that we need to be concerned about moving into the future. But we can explain it like within the guise of this show. Everybody will have an amazing understanding of where this is going, why people are concerned about it, what we can do about it to protect ourselves as individuals and human beings from the effects that this stuff may have on us in the future.

• 5:31Sean Webb?

  And maybe a way out to make sure that, you know, an artificial general intelligence doesn't take over the show and start running the world and we'll never have control again. Because that's, there's a small potential for that to actually occur. That's not science fiction. That's like-

• 5:44Shawn Ryan?

  Is that really small? Well- I feel like it's a lot more imminent than-

• 5:49Sean Webb?

  Everybody's freaking out about it, but I think, like, I've been in this space, like, I've been talking about the dangers of where we're going for like the last 10 years. And now just now Yuval Harari, who's one of those guys up there who has the credibility and all that stuff, is starting to say the same thing as that I've been saying for a long time. And we're getting to the point where everybody's starting to understand and get their mind wrapped around where this is gonna go, how fast it's gonna go, what the particular dangers are of artificial intelligence to influence human behavior, which is the real danger. Because when you come, when it comes down to it, our minds are very hackable. And I'll explain a little bit of that so that people can like, you know, everybody be like, my mind's not hackable.

• 6:32Sean Webb?

  It absolutely is like everyone can be influenced. And a computer system and artificial intelligence is on the cusp of figuring out how to do that. And we, that's what we need to, to protect ourselves against because at that point, you're talking about the ability of an artificial intelligence being able to use simulated like, you know, real fake videos and real fake audio to simulate that they're a human being and sign you up for, you know, a special task force or whatever it is. Start depositing money in your banks that you think you're working for the good guys. And all of a sudden you're working for an artificial intelligence that's arming you, equipping you, funding you, and it has an army, a human army to defend its artificial intelligence goals. That's where we're at.

• 7:16Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. That's, that scares the shit out of me.

• 7:20Sean Webb?

  Yeah. And, and, and it's no bullshit. I will explain from soup to nuts, like hopefully in this episode, how first of all, the, the human mind can be hacked, which is a cool thing because then everybody will be able to hack their own minds, which is awesome. There's a cool, really awesome side effect to be able to take that and then make your life amazing from it. But then from there, it's a really short leap to say, okay, so here's how you can do it. But then here's how an artificial intelligence is going to identify those same patterns and be able to do it if you're not up to speed on how to hack your own mind. It'll be doing it for you.

• 7:51Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you don't have to answer this yet because I know we're going to go into it in the episode, but you had brought up for all the people that, oh, my mind can't be hacked. There's probably at least 50% of the people listening right now are saying that in their own head.

• 8:07Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 8:07Shawn Ryan?

  And

• 8:08Sean Webb?

  Wait till the first half of the show.

• 8:09Shawn Ryan?

  To me, like the first thing that comes to my mind is for those people that are like, oh, I'm unhackable. Every time you experience a strong emotion such as anger, jealousy, all these things, would you say that, I mean, I, I feel like that's, that's Your mind being hacked.

• 8:32Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 8:32Shawn Ryan?

  You're being influenced.

• 8:34Sean Webb?

  I mean, human emotions are the primary driving mechanism for us to take action. I mean, from a certain standpoint, you know, you can break down the physiology and the process within your mind and lay it all out on a piece of paper and you can actually draw it and you can draw the custom variables that make you an individual compared to all the other 800 billion people on the planet. But there's a process that is static within the physiology of a human that takes that custom information but runs it through the same exact process that everybody else uses. Now, if you start to identify what things are on this self map, we'll talk about it, but what those things are for an individual, then the other side of the equation is your perception and appraisal of what's going on in your mind and what you think about it,

• 9:17Sean Webb?

  how you feel about it, et cetera, but that results in your emotional output. And so if you can put perceptions, false or otherwise or targeted, into a person's perception, where you know what they care about and how they're gonna react to things, you can put information in there that results in an emotional reaction that will drive them into action potentially at a particular time window, to a particular location, with a particular emotional mix, and all of a sudden you're communicating and controlling human beings, either individually or en masse, based on like, they could send information to you to get you to a certain location, they could send me different information

• 10:01Sean Webb?

  that's pertinent to me that'll get me to the same location, then all of a sudden you got a drone strike or you're being arrested or whatever it is. And, you know, it used custom information based on who you and I are as individuals, but it got us to the same location or to the same action or the same end result, right? Like, we're selling a stock or buying a stock or, you know, liquidating all of our funds or, you know, going to a certain location or taking a certain action. That's what we're talking about here, is the ability to influence people on a scale of up to, you know, the number of cell phones on the planet where you can literally deliver information to a person's pocket in their face, at a granularity of understanding what each individual needs to see, hear, feel to get them to take the action that you want

• 10:44Sean Webb?

  them to take, on an automated basis, 24/7, 365, no need for lunch breaks, and no need for pay.

• 10:54Shawn Ryan?

  This is fascinating stuff. Let me give you a proper introduction before we dive in too deep because I'm dying to dig in. So, Sean Webb, you're a US Navy veteran. What did you do in the Navy? Were you in the intelligence?

• 11:08Sean Webb?

  No, I was kind of. I mean, I was tertiary. I was working with surveillance technologies and stuff. It's still classified, but I was kind of a tech geek.

• 11:18Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, we won't go into that. You're an expert on the human mind and human emotion. You started your civilian career as a systems engineer in supercomputing. You built a career in high tech. You had a startup at the Advanced Technologies Development Center at Georgia Tech. You are now a speaker. You've spoken to some very powerful pioneers in a lot of different spaces, one of which I believe, did you say they won the Nobel Peace Prize last year?

• 11:54Sean Webb?

  Well, I've had conversations with those folks. I've had multiple conversations with two Nobel winners, but I didn't officially like present formally in front of them. But yeah, there's some stuff that I put out there that they're really interested in talking about.

• 12:09Shawn Ryan?

  You have some very important people that are paying very close attention to you. And that, I mean, that says a lot in itself. You're also an author. You've written a few books, one coming out soon. What is that book titled?

• 12:25Sean Webb?

  It's gonna be The Human Mind Owner's Manual.

• 12:27Shawn Ryan?

  When is that coming out?

• 12:28Sean Webb?

  Man, I'm hoping by the end of this year. It's like regular life keeps getting in the way of me finishing this thing. But yeah, I'm hoping by the end of the year.

• 12:38Shawn Ryan?

  You're an official ambassador to the Monroe Institute. For those of you that do not know what the Monroe Institute is, I'm gonna totally butcher this, but I will say this. The Central Intelligence Agency and the Monroe Institute have done a multitude of studies together on remote viewing. Do you want to go into a little bit more about the Monroe Institute?

• 12:59Sean Webb?

  Yeah, sure. I mean, I think it's the most premier. Research Center for Consciousness Expansion in the, on the east coast of the United States, most definitely. It's a place where, like you said, the history behind it was they sent the early remote viewers for the CIA and other military intelligence to that location to be able to utilize technology that assisted them in making better target viewings and also faster recoveries. And so for a number of years, that was the place where remote viewers got trained for CIA and other military applications for the US government. And that was classified for the longest time, you couldn't even talk about it.

• 13:43Sean Webb?

  And still to this day, they'll deny that they use remote viewers. But, you know, the writing's on the wall of, you know, Lou Elizondo has admitted he was connected with remote viewing and, you know, he's brand new on the scene of, you know, running ATIP and for the Pentagon, the UFO stuff, like he was one of those guys. It's like, well, you guys are denying that this existed, yet here's another guy who's in the mix. Aren't the, the studies are released, though? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that got released and they put out a documentary about remote viewing that was called Third Eye Spies. And that was with Russell Targ, who partnered with Hal Puthoff to put that whole program together for the government, to put some science behind it because they really needed

• 14:26Sean Webb?

  a good program to be able to say, okay, we're going to do this double blind, we're going to make sure that there's no interference, we want to make sure that the data that we're giving for, through these remote viewings is accurate, that it's useful. And so he got a lot of stuff declassified so they could talk about it. And then they turned it into that documentary. And that's how I got tuned into the idea of Joe McMonigal, who's a teacher of the remote viewing program at Monroe Institute and who has just a storied existence of successes in remote viewing for the military and special operations forces and National Security Council. And they gave him the Legion of Merit regarding his ability to sit in his house in Virginia

• 15:11Sean Webb?

  and tell you what's going on inside a Russian facility underground somewhere in the tundra of northern Russia. And he was right. This stuff is, I mean...

• 15:23Shawn Ryan?

  This stuff is incredible.

• 15:25Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Shawn Ryan?

  You know, it's, it's, it's, it's the kind of stuff that people, they can't wrap their head around it. And it's all coming out now that everything you thought was bullshit.

• 15:37Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 15:37Shawn Ryan?

  Is turning out to be 100% real and our own government is utilizing this stuff and has been for decades.

• 15:46Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 15:46Shawn Ryan?

  Um, but we're gonna do, we're gonna do an entirely separate episode on remote viewing in the Monroe Institute. Um, you also are a coach of mind mastery and emotional intelligence for corporate executives. You have 1.5 million subscribers on TikTok. What is your handle on TikTok?

• 16:04Sean Webb?

  Um, it's Mindhacking Happiness.

• 16:06Shawn Ryan?

  Mindhacking Happiness. Go check them out on TikTok. And you're working to forward the development of artificial compassion for computer systems, which might just save us from the runaway AI.

• 16:21Sean Webb?

  Let's hope.

• 16:22Shawn Ryan?

  So.

• 16:25Shawn Ryan?

  We've got a lot to dive into.

• 16:26Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 16:26Shawn Ryan?

  Before we dive into it.

• 16:30Sean Webb?

  Oh, nice. I got the gummy bears. Holy God.

• 16:35Shawn Ryan?

  Hold on, how do you know?

• 16:38Sean Webb?

  Cause you gotta guess.

• 16:39Shawn Ryan?

  You watch the show.

• 16:40Sean Webb?

  Yeah, I do. I love these episodes, man. You're fucking killing it, by the way. I got you, guys.

• 16:44Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, thank you.

• 16:45Sean Webb?

  So I made that up for me and my wife like barely lets me wear it, but that's, um, I thought that fit for you too.

• 16:54Shawn Ryan?

  I could use this. I could definitely use this. Thank you.

• 16:59Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 16:59Shawn Ryan?

  I can love you without reacting to your mental nonsense.

• 17:03Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 17:03Shawn Ryan?

  I gotta work on that.

• 17:04Sean Webb?

  My, uh, my wife made me change the word bullshit to nonsense.

• 17:11Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

• 17:14Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 17:14Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, just so you know, those gummy bears are legal in all 50 states. You can drive anywhere with them, fly anywhere with them.

• 17:21Sean Webb?

  Nice.

• 17:21Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, not worry about getting arrested.

• 17:23Sean Webb?

  Awesome.

• 17:24Shawn Ryan?

  Although the other kinds are, you know, that those are fun too.

• 17:27Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 17:29Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, well, Sean, how did you go from?

• 17:36Shawn Ryan?

  This high-tech job. You're in a Fortune 100 company, making a lot of money.

• 17:45Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Shawn Ryan?

  And you pretty much gave that all up to study human consciousness.

• 17:50Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 17:51Shawn Ryan?

  How did that happen?

• 17:52Sean Webb?

  Well, um, it was in that world of being in high-tech that, you know, I got a lot of success early on. And I was making a bunch of money and I was a single dude, you know, uh, pretty girlfriend, great friends. Like, my life was full of the right answers. And so I'd just purchased a house on a double lot in Atlanta at the age of 27, by myself, no cosigners. Like, just, you know, balling. And I'd filled it with, you know, a bunch of cool stuff and gloss black piano and all this, you know, weight set and all this stuff that I wanted when I was younger, because I grew up in poverty. And then all of a sudden, it turned out I was a little talented in tech.

• 18:37Sean Webb?

  And then the money just started flowing because, you know, I was working for a supercomputing company. And, um, and it was just that they're million-dollar computers. So when you sell some of those things and you work on them, you get paid a lot of money. And, um, like, at some point, we'll have to talk about how I was shipping computers to Area 51. That was a cool little job. But, um, I was in, on the front porch of this house. And I was looking out across the extra lot that I had. And I was like, okay, so I've got all this stuff and I got friends coming over. I'm waiting for the installers for the stereo system that are coming to put the stuff in so we can have this big party at my house. And I'm like, all right, well, so what's next?

• 19:19Sean Webb?

  And something about that, because I was thinking about maybe putting a gazebo or something out in the side yard or whatever and wiring it up for sound, but that was what I was thinking about. And I was like, wait a second, hold on.

• 19:30Speaker 06

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 19:59Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  On October 2nd.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  What would happen if I stopped going? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  I'm not the first then.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 20:30Sean Webb?

  I went from food stamps and living in a little two-bedroom, one-bath house in rural Indiana. And 10 years later, where I was poor as shit, I'm on the other side of the coin. Making good income, success from an American dream perspective. It's like I got everything. There's no wrong answer. It's like I'm not unfulfilled. I have a feel like I have a good relationship with God. There's nothing really missing for me. Yet, here I am with all the things that I was ever told that I should have for happiness. And I'm already looking for what's next. And something in my mind clicked. It's like, wait a second.

• 21:13Sean Webb?

  You're not happy with all of this stuff? It's like, where's the finish line gonna be? What is it gonna be that finally says, "Okay, I'm good. I'm done"? And I started to analyze it and then I started to read a little bit about, you know, psychology and whatnot. And it was like, there's gonna be no stopping point. There's this thing called a hedonic treadmill where, and it's a part of the immune, or excuse me, the part of the nervous system, not the immune system, but the nervous system where like your nervous system reports the differences in things. Like you smell a scent for the first 10 minutes and then all of a sudden you don't smell it anymore because, let's say you wake up in the middle of the night and the gas is

• 21:57Sean Webb?

  on and you smell it. Well, it woke you up because it went from low to high and it alerted you and said, okay, there's a big difference in the gas smell. But then after 10 minutes, it goes from high to high and it stops reporting on the difference of things, right? And you gotta get out of the house, the firemen say, get out of the house if you smell gas because you won't smell for very long, but it'll kill you. Because your nervous system only measures the differences in things. And so in reality, what that does to our life is when we start making financial accumulation and the brand new car is really cool for the first few months that you're driving it and then all of a sudden it gets to be old hat. That's your nervous system normalizing to the things that you've attained already in life. And then you start looking for the, well, what's the difference? How can I get more?

• 22:40Sean Webb?

  And that never stops. And that's why these billionaires are always looking to pile more money on top, more success, more businesses, more accolades, right? Oh, I'm not the richest man in the world yet. Let's do that, right? And there's chasing, they're chasing, they're chasing because the nervous system always normalizes to what you have. And so that's what was going on in my mind that I was just learning about. It was like, I've got all this stuff, what's next? And I was like, if I, if I follow this pattern, I'm gonna be chasing that my whole life.

• 23:12Shawn Ryan?

  That's interesting you say that. I am coming to that, I've, I've come to that realization that it's all just shit.

• 23:22Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 23:23Shawn Ryan?

  It is all just shit.

• 23:24Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 23:25Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and.

• 23:28Shawn Ryan?

  And if you let that, if you let that shit get to you, it, it, it, you're just feeding and creating a monster.

• 23:36Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 23:37Shawn Ryan?

  It's, it's greed.

• 23:39Sean Webb?

  Yeah, most definitely.

• 23:40Shawn Ryan?

  It's greed.

• 23:41Sean Webb?

  So I started looking for more. I was like, okay, what, what is it that I'm missing about my internal sense of who I am and what I am and what I want in life, et cetera? And I started to do some reading on global religions, trying to figure out, is there something I missed in my religion? That maybe, you know, there's some other answers that I need to, or what could be commonalities that are, could be brought into my existence that could maybe illuminate me into something else that I need to be doing, et cetera? And I found some patterns of commonalities in religion, which were really interesting. But then I read a book on T. Suzuki's Introduction to Zen. And I learned about meditation, which was a foreign idea to me at the time,

• 24:24Sean Webb?

  because, you know, I grew up Christian and I went to church. I was president of the youth group for four years. You know, I was like in it. And at that point, I started to understand that there was this thing called satori. And I didn't know what that was. It's just a word for their explanation about a moment of perfection that allows you to understand absolutely everything. And I'm like, well, what's that all about?

• 24:49Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 24:49Sean Webb?

  I'm looking for answers, so maybe.

• 24:51Shawn Ryan?

  Satori?

• 24:51Sean Webb?

  Satori, yeah. And so I started meditating and I was horrible at it. So I didn't know what it was. You know, I'd look it up and try to read about it and whatnot. And then I started to read articles on websites and stuff. I'm like, well, this actually tracks back into the Christianity that I know, because Jesus meditated. It says right so in the Bible, you know, forty, forty days out in the desert. And so I was like, all right, well, I'll try it. And so I started meditating. I started calming my mind. And then I started reading more about Zen, which to me is more of a philosophy of mind mastery than anything. And I worked on using the eight hundred pound gorilla of my mind to tame the eight hundred pound gorilla of my mind.

• 25:35Sean Webb?

  Because from a practical perspective, they just want to cease all conscious thought and then find out what happens next. And so that's what I focused on. I was like, I want to shut my mind completely down. I want to hear nothing but silence and then see what I can hear from there. And there's a crazy thing that happened that I'm, for the last 20 years, I've been trying to figure out what the physiology and the science is behind it. But a different experience of consciousness arose within me when I got to a point of complete quietude. And it blew my mind. It was so dramatic and life-changing and such a weird experience that I literally

• 26:20Sean Webb?

  thought I was dying. Like, I zipped out of my body into the center of the universe and all of a sudden understood absolutely everything about how this whole universe works. And like, the crazy experience that came from shutting down conscious thought in my mind, reset absolutely everything within me and brought me a ton of information that I didn't have, like, the day before. And so, some of the stuff that I got out of, and I, and I talk about that experience in the blue book that I wrote, Volume Two of Mindhacking Happiness. So if you're interested in, pick that up or whatever. The information that I brought back from that was real, valid information on how the

• 27:03Sean Webb?

  human mind works, how we create our own pain and suffering, like, the process that we go through to create our pain and suffering. And I put it into a theory, and I was just another guy with a theory on, you know, how, here's how your pain and suffering works. But I put it into a very specific logical process flow of values and groupings of things and the process that your mind follows to create your bullshit, and I call it your mental bullshit. And then, between 2007 and 2013, all the science came out, the peer-reviewed, published, major journal of science that proved every bit of what I had come back with, correct? No kidding. Yeah. And so then I was like...

• 27:47Sean Webb?

  Okay, so now this raises a whole bunch of other questions in my mind because but besides having a practical understanding of you know how you create your own pain and suffering and bullshit and how you can turn it down etc. Now, science has proven that's correct. Okay, so now a whole new set of questions comes like where did that come from? Like what information did I tap into that allowed me who a guy who has you know a psychology 101 course in his past from a community college at some point to come with a model that can explain the human mind and how it works?

• 28:19Shawn Ryan?

  Well, before we before we move into the next set of questions.

• 28:22Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 28:23Shawn Ryan?

  I have two questions, I want to say them out loud because I'll forget. But one, how long did it take you to get into that type of meditation? How long did it take you? So I'd like to talk about that. Two, what was the initial download? So let's start with one.

• 28:39Sean Webb?

  Okay. So one, it wasn't very long. Because I just went at it. In fact, it was less than two months that I started meditating that this weird thing occurred. And then I like zipped out of my body and went off into the middle of the universe and understood everything. And then when I was coming back, I was losing a lot of it. I was losing all the stuff, all the stuff that I understood. I was like coming back into my existence. In fact, one of the portions of the existence was, okay, time to go back. And I was like, what do you mean go back? I was like, I don't want to go back. What are you talking about? And then it was like, you're going back? And I was like, oh, okay, so maybe you know reincarnation is real, I'm gonna go back and be a human baby, whatever it was.

• 29:21Sean Webb?

  And then I realized I was coming back to my body, my existence, and I was like, well, that sucks. I mean, come on, really? You know, I'm here in the middle of everything and I understand everything and I got to be one with the whole universe and yada yada, and you're putting me back in this shit? You know, and it's uh, but then, you know, I started losing a lot of stuff and I was like, no, wait, wait, wait, I don't want to lose everything. You can't just show this to me and not like, you know, get allow me to help folks. And the feeling that I got was like, well, what do you want? And I was like, well, I want to let's knock out this pain and suffering thing. Let's knock out, you know, the the human limitation of being controlled by fear and controlled by anger and controlled by sadness and all the things that like limit our existence

• 30:05Sean Webb?

  and stop us from being, you know, joyful and happy all the time. And the kind of feeling the message I got back was like, yeah, okay, so you aren't the first. You know, and that was kind of a joke, kind of a poke at, you know, a lot of the other masters dipped into the same thing and look what they did. I'm like, okay, well, I'll give it a shot anyway, you know, let's see what happens. Um, and so it was just within a few couple of months, though.

• 30:28Shawn Ryan?

  A couple of months you were able to tap in?

• 30:30Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Shawn Ryan?

  I've been meditating off and on for, I started after my first psychedelic experience, to be honest with you.

• 30:39Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 30:39Shawn Ryan?

  And that was roughly a year and three months ago.

• 30:45Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 30:46Shawn Ryan?

  And I felt the oneness one time.

• 30:51Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Shawn Ryan?

  And that was meditating outside in nature. I, I have, I'm just gonna tell you what I do. You know, and maybe you can critique me, cause, cause I wanna go to the center of the universe.

• 31:03Sean Webb?

  I know, right?

• 31:05Shawn Ryan?

  In meditation. So I, I put headphones on, I listen to frequency music, like the stuff we were listening when we were, when we were setting up the photo shoot and everything for the, for this episode. I do that. And then, have you ever heard of a Rife machine?

• 31:19Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 31:21Shawn Ryan?

  So I know you're very familiar with frequency. So I put a Rife machine on and I put it on my feet. Sometimes I put it on my hands. Sometimes I put it on both. So basically, for those listening who don't know what a Rife machine is, a Rife machine sends a series of frequencies through your body and it's kind of holistic medicine. And you probably know a lot more about this than I do.

• 31:48Sean Webb?

  I just got a Royal delivered to my house, the Royal Rife machine.

• 31:51Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 31:52Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 31:53Shawn Ryan?

  So from what I understand, the Rife machine, it does all kinds of good things for you, but it, it, um, It can break up bacteria, it can break up viruses. They say it can break up cancers, um, cancer cells. And, and, and, and from what I understand, it's also very grounding. It, it puts you at the, at the right frequency that we're supposed to be operating at. I even put a grounding sheet on my bed.

• 32:21Sean Webb?

  Wow.

• 32:21Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know what a grounding sheet is?

• 32:22Sean Webb?

  Yeah, totally. I tried to buy one. I got one off of Amazon and it wasn't really doing a whole lot. And I tested it with a multimeter. It wasn't even connected. Like they were selling a sham, like they, you know, I, I believe in the science because I've read the reports and read the studies. Like that's real science, real stuff that'll help you. But the stuff they sell on Amazon doesn't, like the ground doesn't have a connection to the mat.

• 32:43Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, great.

• 32:44Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I've been looking for a new one then.

• 32:49Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, but, um, yeah, you know, so that's, that's, and then I sit in a, I have a bad back, so I sit in a lovesack, like a big beanbag chair.

• 33:00Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, just try to totally relax. Sometimes I can get far and get, and the way I do it is I just, when I meditate, I kind of let, um, how do I explain this? I'm not the greatest at controlling my thoughts.

• 33:16Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 33:17Shawn Ryan?

  And so how I do it is I try to let every thought in my head play out. And sometimes this could take hours.

• 33:27Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 33:27Shawn Ryan?

  Most of the time I don't have hours.

• 33:29Sean Webb?

  Okay.

• 33:30Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I'll do it for, if I get a 45 minute one in, I feel like I've accomplished something. Even if I haven't accomplished anything and I just sat by myself for 45 minutes, I feel good about it. But every once in a while, all the thoughts, it's like every thought will play through my head.

• 33:51Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 33:52Shawn Ryan?

  And I'll get to the point where I'm thinking about nothing.

• 33:55Sean Webb?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:57Shawn Ryan?

  And then I realize I'm thinking about nothing. And I snap out of it and I don't know how long I was actually thinking about nothing. So the way I'd like to describe it is if you're looking down, picture your thoughts like clouds.

• 34:13Sean Webb?

  Right.

• 34:13Shawn Ryan?

  And the clouds pass by and then another thought comes in your head.

• 34:18Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 34:18Shawn Ryan?

  And it's, you know, it's good stuff. It's things that are bothering you. It's things that I have to do today, things that I have to do next week and guilt and all these different emotions and thoughts are just going through my head. And every once in a while, every thought goes through my head. Everything plays out and it's 100% calmness. But I don't know how long I'm in that calmness or I'm in that state.

• 34:48Sean Webb?

  Yeah, in that state, there's a separation of time, right? Where time just kind of doesn't become a thing anymore. What you just perfectly explained, well done by the way, is a meditative state of Vipassana. And so there's a word for it. It comes from like this ancient Buddhist practice where you simply just observe your thoughts, but you don't add anything to them. Like your thoughts come in, but you don't really interact with them. You just kind of let them do their thing. And like you said, a cloud floating by and then it floats out. And then you're just waiting for the quiet. And that's from my perspective, that's your subconscious, trying to raise things for your awareness. And we'll get into, you know, how your brain is your organ of survival.

• 35:30Sean Webb?

  It starts throwing things up that says, you know, should we pay attention to this? Should we pay attention to this? And your non-reaction to that proves two cool things. One, that you're not your mind, but you can observe your mind, which means there always needs to be a space between an observer and the observed. So you're proving to yourself that your own consciousness isn't the product of your mind, which is a really cool thing to notice. But then the other thing is

• 35:55Shawn Ryan?

  Can you say that again?

• 35:57Sean Webb?

  That your your that your consciousness is separate from your mind. Like, if you can observe your mind from your consciousness, you're proving to yourself that it's not the same thing. That the observer that's sitting in the chair watching your mind isn't your mind, because a tooth can't touch itself or can't bite itself. A fingertip can't touch itself. An eyeball can't see itself without some distance in a mirror. There needs to be a space between the observer and the observed. And so at any point that you're observing your mind, you're proving to yourself you aren't your mind. Your mind is something that's doing, that's working for you, certainly in assistance of of your existence, of your physiology. But your consciousness is something different.

• 36:42Sean Webb?

  And when you dig into that, that's your true essence. It's not your mind and the things that are happening in your mind and the emotions that are arising and all this other stuff. That's a process of your physiology. You're the thing inside working your physiology, driving your physiology, experiencing this human existence. But you're not this thing and the operation of your mind if you can see your mind. Because there has to be some distance between the observer and the observed.

• 37:10Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company foreme of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  What would happen if I stopped moving? You stop, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 37:44Speaker 07

  It's me, the

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 37:47Speaker 07

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  What about a third time?

• 37:50Speaker 07

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Seems like they just started.

• 37:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Time to be the tagline.

• 38:05Speaker 07

  Fine. No one deals more deals than

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 38:08Speaker 07

  Please stop.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 38:10Speaker 07

  Touche.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  Priceline.

• 38:11Speaker 07

  Priceline.

• 38:12Shawn Ryan?

  That's, uh, fascinating.

• 38:15Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Shawn Ryan?

  That's fascinating stuff.

• 38:18Shawn Ryan?

  So what was your first download?

• 38:21Sean Webb?

  So the first thing that I got was the last thing that I was basically was I lost everything. Like the understanding of the whole universe and get I like totally understood Satori at that point from a Zen perspective, right? And I don't think the Zen folks are right. I just think it was a practical method for them to get to the point that we naturally can find as humans that we're designed to find that puts us in touch with everything. But the stuff that I grabbed on the way back when I knew I was coming back to be me and that I wanted to help teach people, I still had access to some stuff that I, you know, didn't have access to in my human life in the this expanded consciousness realm. And I said, let me bring back the process of pain and suffering.

• 39:03Sean Webb?

  Let me bring back how the human mind works so that we can explain it to folks so that they can start to take control of their mind, adjust the variables that they need to adjust to make their life amazing. And I got that stuff and I put it into a couple of books that I then published and 96% of the folks who are finding it are rating them five stars and they're saying this stuff changed my life. So I'm like, thank God I grabbed the right stuff on the way back. You know, it's like, there was so much information out there in the field that I could have tried to bring back and explain. And I grabbed just the right mix of stuff that I didn't know about, but that I kind of figured out how to unpack over time and put into a couple of books and some, you

• 39:48Sean Webb?

  know, whatever videos that I put out on the internet for free and all this other stuff. It's like, that's what I want to deliver.

• 39:52Shawn Ryan?

  We'll link, we'll link all that, your book and, and all your, everything will be linked below.

• 39:57Sean Webb?

  Nice. Yeah, so I put that in into the stuff that I try to communicate and it helps people take control of their mind and shows them the control knobs that they can take and change the things that'll change their whole emotional landscape for the rest of their life. Because if you think about it, emotions are the things that drive us, like we talked about at the top, but it's also the things that can ruin our existence. Like it's the sadness and the fear and the anger and the worry and regret and all that stuff that permeates your mind because you're, you're not taking control of your mind and adjusting the variables to turn that stuff down. Science shows us in FMRI studies that you can grab those variables and literally turn your brain on or off in certain areas to hack your mind, which is why I was, you

• 40:38Sean Webb?

  know, the moniker of the book was mind hacking happiness. Like, there's a way to take control of those variables and literally control the brain reactivity that creates the stuff that causes trials and troubles and tribulations, et cetera, but then can also free you from that whole process, which changes your life and then changes the lives of those around you, because not only just your personal existence is better, which then affects all the cool people around you that you love and don't want to hurt, but then you start to bleed into them and your positivity and your, your control of understanding your own shit can be passed on to them. And like, my kid is one of the most emotionally intelligent kids in his class and has no problem with a lot of the things that middle schoolers

• 41:22Sean Webb?

  will have a problem with because he's got that presence of understanding how his mind works and he understands where his fear comes from. He understands what his frustrations are and he can turn them down at will at 13. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So how do you even begin to control this? Well, the cool thing is, there's a hardwired hack in your mind that helps you control it for you. So, the easiest way to explain this is, like, when you go, your brain is your organ of survival, okay? So it's there to help you figure out what's a danger and

• 42:01Sean Webb?

  what's not. Okay, so, when you walk by a coil on the ground, there's this thing called your limbic system and specifically your amygdala, that'll look down, glance out of the corner of your eye and say, "Oh my God, that's a snake." Right? And so, the fear kicks into your amygdala and it starts dumping adrenaline into your system to prepare for fight or flight, to get you away from the threat. Okay? So, at the moment that you look down and you see that that coil on the ground is not a snake, but it's a hose.

• 42:34Sean Webb?

  Okay, your brain as your organ of survival has to have a way to turn off your negative shit immediately because the adrenaline dump and all the stuff that's happened a moment ago to prolong your survival is now going to limit your survival by wasting those resources that you would need to run away from a hose, which you don't, right? But you may need those resources 100 yards down the line when a bear walks out of the woods in front of you and you need that adrenaline, right? So there needs to be a way for your thinking mind to turn off your negative reaction to that snake now hose. And so there's a specific circuit, and we don't have to go deep in the weeds of neuroscience, but there's a specific circuit in the right ventral lateral prefrontal cortex and the

• 43:17Sean Webb?

  medial prefrontal cortex that literally sends a signal back to your limbic system, says, "Shut the fear off, we don't need it anymore. Stop the adrenaline dump," and it reacts immediately and turns off the negative reactivity that your mind has going on at the moment because you don't need that fear. There's a way to hack that system. This happens subconsciously. Yeah, subconsciously. It's helping, your brain is there to help you, right? Your brain is there to do what you need it to do to help your survival. And that's why, you know, it'll change in form and function like you learn how to shoot a basketball and all of a sudden it becomes muscle memory. It's not really muscle memory, that's your brain saying, "I'm gonna take this over for a subconscious process to say, 'We're always gonna hit that three,' right? You learn how to play piano, all of a sudden it becomes automatic where you just start

• 44:02Sean Webb?

  the song and now you're just listening to it as your body's playing the notes, right? That's, you do crossword puzzles. Your brain, your subconscious mind, works those things quicker, starts to aligning this thought process to say, "Oh, I've seen that clue before." And you're filling out your crossword puzzle faster based on what intention that you've set for it. Well, over time, when you start managing your emotions, it'll start doing the same thing. And so if you're like a mess psychologically in life and you start to take control of your emotional landscape, over time, your mind makes you that, you know, zen master walking around observing the world exploding around him and not really reacting to it, unless there's something directly that needs to be done, you know, that's a cool kind of

• 44:45Sean Webb?

  place to be where, you know, life could be going to hell in a handbasket and yet you're calm and controlled and can make intelligent decisions based on the information that you have ahead of you.

• 44:59Shawn Ryan?

  So this all came to you at just with in one meditation set in?

• 45:05Sean Webb?

  It was a hell of a meditation. But yeah, and that's what expanded consciousness is all about because this whole thing for me, the like, the experience itself felt like it was thousands to millions of years long.

• 45:21Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 45:22Sean Webb?

  Like, I learned that much stuff. Now, I lost a lot of it coming back into the limited physiology that I have. Like, we're really dumb as human beings. Like, we totally overestimate our intelligence level compared to what there is to know. But, um, yeah, when you dip into that space of expanded consciousness, and I've got theories about this, we can talk about this later, but you're dipping into like a non-local awareness that transcends, just like quantum mechanics does, transcends space and time. Like, quantum mechanics is showing us that in that realm that creates space and time, it is beyond the effects of space and time. Like, you know, you can have backwards in time reactions in quantum mechanic experiments.

• 46:05Sean Webb?

  Like, nobody understands quantum mechanics, so I don't want to profess that I understand what's going on. But there are experiments that show that we can have reactivity backwards in time based on stuff that happens in the future. And they've proven this over and over and over, and 100% of the experiments show that this is the way it works. Well, I think that there's also a non-local component to consciousness that does the same thing. That when you're in that pure conscious awareness space, you're beyond the space and time influence. And so you can experience things off into the distance in this consciousness expansion space, get a ton of information that you wouldn't have time to experience in the, you know, hour-long meditation or however long you were gone.

• 46:49Sean Webb?

  And then you come back and you've got all of this experience and all of this understanding that would have taken lifetimes to learn.

• 46:57Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 46:57Sean Webb?

  It's crazy.

• 46:58Shawn Ryan?

  We'll get in, we'll dive deeper into that in a, in a future episode.

• 47:03Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, so back to, let's get into some of the stuff that we need to cover before we get into the AI manipulation.

• 47:12Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 47:13Shawn Ryan?

  And, um, so.

• 47:16Shawn Ryan?

  Let's go into how the brain works with consciousness, because I know you want to explain some of that.

• 47:22Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 47:22Shawn Ryan?

  Before we get into how AI is going to manipulate the entire human population.

• 47:29Sean Webb?

  Yeah, because one of the things that I was thinking is we covered like how to hack your own mind. And then it's a small jump to say, okay, here's how an artificial intelligence will hack your mind if you're not taking control of it. And this will be an amazing, cool little talent for anybody who's listening to be able to hack their own mind. Because you can literally take the variables that create who you are in your mind, adjust them, and then take control of your whole emotional landscape, which is awesome. And then you'll understand, when you're starting to take control of those things, how somebody else, like news media, or an external source of information, or an artificial intelligence will try to do the same thing. And you'll be able to identify when somebody's trying to influence you or control you, which

• 48:14Sean Webb?

  is kind of cool, give you a lot of freedom. But that story starts with back to the Linux system. Like, it's your defense mechanism. It's always scanning your environment for threats, right? And so that's the portion of your brain that is like your survival structure. It says, is this person a threat? Is this car coming towards me a threat? Am I in this line? Is this animal a threat? But then a second question must be asked, a threat to what? And so that becomes the answer that the mind needs. Like, it needs a laundry list. It's just a logic device, right? Our brain is just a logic device of our central nervous system. And it needs a laundry list to define what it is that we need to defend.

• 48:57Sean Webb?

  Like, if we're given a mission to, say, defend this, okay, well, what is this? Right? And so that laundry list of stuff becomes our sense of self. And it's hardwired in that our body is right in the center of this map. It's called a self map, which is a kind of a...

• 49:21Sean Webb?

  What's the word I'm looking for? A concept that was brought forth by Antonio Damasio, who's a very famous researcher, who did a lot of work on self and the understanding of human psychology and why we do the things that we do. And so this self thing, our body's right in the center of it, so when we have a baseball flying at our heads, that's why we dodge out of the way, subconsciously. We don't even have control, it just happens. Or like when a fly comes flying near our eye, we blink. That's our limbic system, controlling the motion of our body to defend our sense of self, which our body's right in the middle of it. So when we have that adrenaline dump of, you know, seeing that wild animal, or whatever it is, that's the body being right in the middle of our sense of self map. Now, just a couple of decades ago, they thought that was it.

• 50:05Sean Webb?

  Our body was our sense of self, and that's what our brain is looking to defend. But then, a really cool researcher, I've met him, I've interviewed him, his name is Jim Cohn at University of Virginia, he did a study that showed people can actually be mapped to our sense of self, people around us. And he did it through FMRI study to prove that, you know, brains work the way they do, and that this is a real thing. He put some folks through an FMRI, and he said, "Okay..." What is an FMRI? FMRI is a MRI machine that scans every cell of your brain, but then, it also, through an extra function, looks at the blood flow and the energy flow within the mind itself in real time. So it basically shows you what's going on with the different sections of the brain.

• 50:49Sean Webb?

  So you can look on a monitor, and it comes red and blue, and different energy sensations and different blood flow tell you what portions of the brain are doing what in any moment that you're looking at it. So he put a group of folks through this study, and he said, "Okay, I'm gonna give you a pair of glasses, there's gonna be a LED in there, it's gonna give you a flash of light, and then we're gonna watch your brain for a few seconds, and then we're gonna zap the shit out of you on your ankle." Okay. So, and it hurt a little bit. I mean, it didn't do any harm, but it was like, whoa, you know?

• 51:23Shawn Ryan?

  You did this?

• 51:24Sean Webb?

  No, I've had it done before, but I didn't, wasn't part of that study. But it hurts. It's like a dog zap collar. It's like the same type of thing, but they put it on your ankle. So they give you the flash of light and they watch the brain. And what they were expecting is what they got, which was the fear center in the brain lit up and the correlates in the brain that create our self map, our sense of self, because our body's right in the center of it. And it's like, okay, there's a threat to the body. So fear came out and the sense of self came out and they saw it in the scan. It's exactly what they expected. The second run, they brought a stranger into the room, put him on a gurney next to the subject in the FMRI machine. And said, okay, we're going to give you the flash of light, but we're going to take the ankle zapper off of you and put it on the stranger. And then we're going to watch your brain and then we're going to zap the other guy.

• 52:09Sean Webb?

  And I'm like, I'm selling cable rights at this point, right? I'm set up a popcorn machine. Let's, let's have fun with this thing.

• 52:14Shawn Ryan?

  So hold on. One guy gets the flash of light.

• 52:17Sean Webb?

  Yep.

• 52:17Shawn Ryan?

  The other guy gets the zap.

• 52:19Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. And what are they wanting to happen?

• 52:22Sean Webb?

  So what they expect to happen is because their body is no longer in threat, because you're zapping somebody else, they're not going to see fear and they're not going to see the sense of self correlates, right? In the brain. And that's exactly what they got, exactly what they expected. But what they didn't expect to happen and what changed the world of understanding of sense of self was what happened on the third run, where they brought in what's called a familiar, which was somebody that you love or somebody that's part of your life, significant other, coworker, child, parent, friend, somebody that means something to you. And they put them on the gurney next to you as you're in the FMRI machine, give you the flash of light, watch your brain, but then they zap somebody that you love.

• 53:07Sean Webb?

  And the thing that surprised them was that they couldn't tell the first scans and the third scans apart.

• 53:15Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 53:15Sean Webb?

  Yeah. So the people that we love and the people in our lives get mapped on to our sense of self and use that same simple defensive self-programming that our brain uses to defend against the snake or the bear or whatever. That's why we can now be concerned about losing our job or be concerned about our friend telling us they're about to lose their job. Or we're concerned about Grandma's cold turning into a bad flu or whatever. Like, we have feelings for the people around us that we love. This is exactly how the brain does it.

• 53:49Shawn Ryan?

  Very... You know, consciousness is...

• 53:58Shawn Ryan?

  It's... It's very fascinating. I've been watching this guy Greg Braden a lot. And I've been trying to get him on here. I'm hoping he takes the bait here soon. But he was talking about a study that was done with photons in a vacuum. Are you familiar with this?

• 54:18Sean Webb?

  No.

• 54:19Shawn Ryan?

  So they put photons into a vacuum. And they put... They put them in there and studied how they move around. And at first, they seemed no effect. Then they put a strand of DNA in. And the photons

• 54:38Shawn Ryan?

  attach themselves to the DNA, it sounds like.

• 54:41Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Shawn Ryan?

  And then they put... Then they wanted to do... They did... They brought in consciousness somehow. So they had somebody... They had somebody watch the photons. And then they had somebody... And then they had the photons where nobody was watching them. And the photons actually react differently if there's a human being in the room watching the vacuum with the photons in it.

• 55:04Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 55:05Shawn Ryan?

  Now...

• 55:07Shawn Ryan?

  They did a third run where they they try to trick the photons and they watch it through a camera. And if you watch the photons through the camera, they still react the same way as they do if you're in the room watching. But if you're not watching through the camera, then they react the same way as if nobody was in the room and nobody was watching.

• 55:30Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 55:31Shawn Ryan?

  How is this?

• 55:33Sean Webb?

  That's consciousness reaching through the field. And I see that as if the data needs to be rendered for someone to experience it, that's the loop back through consciousness. That makes the the loop in in quantum mechanics collapse that wave function is what it's is what it's called. That resolves the collapse of a wave function. So if you watch it live or you watch it through a camera, you're watching it, period. And so through non-locality, your need of seeing how that data resolves is what makes that difference occur. It doesn't matter how it's delivered to you, it's delivered to you, but you're wired into consciousness, so it reacts differently because you want to experience that that moment. I don't know.

• 56:18Sean Webb?

  There's no scientific proof of that. It's just kind of my little pet theory, but I've been kind of studying this stuff for a while, and that's kind of my hunch.

• 56:26Shawn Ryan?

  There was another study, I'm gonna just share this just because I think this stuff is it just it it blows my mind.

• 56:34Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 56:35Shawn Ryan?

  He talks about DNA.

• 56:36Sean Webb?

  Mm hmm.

• 56:37Shawn Ryan?

  And he talks about operating at high and low frequency, high frequency being happiness, gratitude, all that stuff, low frequency being anger, jealousy, fear, things like that. And he says, when you're operating at a low frequency, your DNA will actually wind tighter.

• 56:58Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 56:59Shawn Ryan?

  Tighter. And if you are operating, which which is a lesser expression of your DNA.

• 57:06Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 57:07Shawn Ryan?

  And he says, and this is a study.

• 57:08Sean Webb?

  Yep.

• 57:09Shawn Ryan?

  When you're operating at a high frequency, when you're when you're experiencing happiness, gratitude, you know, positive emotions, your DNA will unwind to a full expression.

• 57:23Shawn Ryan?

  To the point where it looks like it's about ready to produce another DNA. And so I'm saying this stuff because I think it fits in with the conversation. I love talking about it.

• 57:33Sean Webb?

  Yeah, it completely does.

• 57:35Shawn Ryan?

  It shows, it shows anybody who's watching or listening to this, how important human emotion is and how it can affect your, your health.

• 57:45Sean Webb?

  Absolutely, because the same process that we just talked about with attaching to other people to create emotions.

• 57:53Sean Webb?

  Another researcher called Tiffany Burnett White at UAUC proved a self-brand connection gets also mapped on to this. So this is like Ford versus Chevy, right? This is like I'm New York Yankees versus New York Mets. Like this is attachment to ideas where she showed that attachment to brand also fires the same areas of the brain. And then Sam Harris came along with some of his cohorts and proved that we get attached to religion and we get attached to politics and those ideas, which is why when somebody attacks our religion or politics, we get frustrated. I mean, you just have to go to Facebook to see that argument happening. You know, you could scroll through your news feed and see something like that. That's why, because your mind attaches to an idea, to your sense of self,

• 58:38Sean Webb?

  which then runs your emotional programming through that same, you know, defensive self mechanism. But that idea then makes you an individual, like you have a different mom than I do. We would defend our moms, but at the same time, I'm not defending your mom as vehemently as you're defending your mom because your mom's on your self map, my mom's on my self map. And so that drives our emotional reactions associated with those custom things that are on our self map. And it's easy to explain the, the, the stress level that you have about stuff in life because there's a simple equation of emotion with only two variables in it that will control every emotional reaction that you have from the time of your birth to the time of your death. Two variables. And if you can take control of those, you can take control of your entire emotional landscape.

• 59:23Sean Webb?

  One of them is your expectation and a preference, which is automatically set by the stuff that's on your self map. And the expectation or preference rule is the value has to remain status quo or increase in value connected with all this stuff. Or we're going to have a problem. And then the other variable is perception, which is what's going on around you, your regular environment, the actions around the environment, the thoughts that are going through your head are perceptions. So if you have a bad thought about something, I can set off an emotion. These two things are measured against each other. Your expectation and a preference regarding all the stuff that you care about that's on your self map. And then your perception comes through with an appraisal of whether that's positive or negative based on what's going on here.

• 1:00:08Sean Webb?

  And the equation of emotion has a negative proof in the whole thing. Like you take one away, you're gonna have apathy as your emotional result. You take the expectation or preference away, like you don't care about something. Like you could talk to me about who won the Canadian lacrosse high school championship. I don't give a fuck. You know, it's like, I'm gonna have apathy about that, right? I may be happy that they, you know, the team won and had a great time, but that's my connection with humanity in general, right? I'm a human. I love when people succeed at their goals. And so I'm gonna have a happy emotion that somebody won and had a great time. I don't give a shit who won. You know, we don't have to have that conversation. So you don't have a perception about something. You're not gonna have an emotion about it. Like if you want somebody to win the Super Bowl and you haven't watched it yet and you don't know who won, you're not gonna have an emotional reaction about that result of that game.

• 1:00:53Sean Webb?

  You'll be like, I really wanna know the score of the game because it's already happened, it's over. You know, I'm getting up, I didn't stay up last night. Well, that's an expectation or preference that you would love to know the score of the game based on you not knowing the score. That's an imbalance and that creates your negative emotion. But you're not gonna have any emotion about the game itself until you find out the score. So there's an easy way to explain all of your emotions with two simple variables, that if they balance, you have a positive emotion as a result. If they don't balance, you have a negative emotion that's a result. And you can manage the things that are on your self map that can reduce the amount of shit that ruins your day by stop caring about stuff less. Like I used to be wrapped up in politics and all this other stuff, ruining my day, all the headlines that were coming out, like all the shit that was irking me.

• 1:01:36Sean Webb?

  I took politics off of my self map and just didn't give a shit about it anymore. And so, you know, it's time to vote and I'll do a two weeks' worth of analysis and figure out what I'm gonna do. Man, my life got so much more awesome by just taking that one thing off of my self map and not caring about it. Can you please help me?

• 1:01:57Shawn Ryan?

  Because I don't, I don't, I haven't watched the news in probably a year.

• 1:02:02Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:02Shawn Ryan?

  But, you know, I am a, I'm in media, you know, that's my, that's my, my new profession is being in media. And so I have to research and I see things and, and I can't help it. I, I, how do I get rid of that? I hate politics. I don't want to look at it. It just, it disgusts me. I think everybody in politics is basically a prostitute.

• 1:02:27Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Shawn Ryan?

  And, and help me. How do I get rid of it?

• 1:02:32Sean Webb?

  Well, you're doing the right things. You're keeping those perceptions away from you, right? So you have an expectation or preference, like you have something on a self map that you care about. A set of ideals, right? A set of beliefs, of way that things should be done, right? And then this ruins your day a lot. So you're staying away from your perception, which is great. I mean, if you just, you know, filter that stuff out and don't bring that into your awareness, without having to throw the things off that you truly care about off your self map, you can reduce the amount of pain and suffering that you're experiencing by reducing the perceptions that you're having to process. So that's cool. So you can do that. There's also a thing in psychology that's big is called a reappraisal process where like, let's take you getting cut off in traffic.

• 1:03:17Sean Webb?

  Your perception and the, the value that you put on that makes all the difference of how you react to that situation. So if you're in the mindset of this guy cuts you off and, and you take that as a slight of, you know, he's more important than me, where he's going is more important where I'm going, he just totally told me that, you know, I doesn't, I don't import, you know, I'm not important enough to take into consideration that he's going to take my lane. Then you're like, you know, fuck you and you're laying on your horn and flipping them off and all this other stuff. So that's one reaction. But then if you reappraise that, you could say, okay, idiots exist, wasn't paying attention, whatever. That's going to bring the energy level of your reaction down quite a bit because that brings the, the energy that you're putting into the perception lower.

• 1:04:01Sean Webb?

  It's not an attack on you. It's just a existence of people do stupid shit and then you can let it roll off. But then if you've got a different perception of that where. Wow, maybe this person's on his way to the hospital to see his friend, dying friend, for the last time. You're like, holy shit, take my lane, you know, get there. I hope you get there, man. Right? So there's a totally different emotional reaction based on how you see things and how you choose to see things in life that can change how you react to things, both subconsciously and consciously. So it's, there's some, yeah, you get in there and you start playing with the subtleties of the, of the variables that are in your equation of emotion. You can completely take control of your emotional landscape and the subconscious process that creates the emotions that you then have to

• 1:04:46Sean Webb?

  deal with. That's a very subtle change in the, in the thought process. Yeah. You know, just. Yeah. And the cool thing is like plasticity, just like, you know, you get better at playing piano over time or shooting basketball or whatever it is, it will start to help you do that more automatically over time, the more you do it, which is the real magic. Because you put some effort into it, you learn how, what the variables are, how you can tweak them, that type of thing. Then your mind gets an idea of where you want it to go. And then it starts to go there for you. And the coolest example of that I have.

• 1:05:24Sean Webb?

  I'll tell this story.

• 1:05:27Sean Webb?

  So my mom died a few years back. But before she died, we got her into an assisted living facility. And it was, it was a nice place. But I'd come down once a week and say hi because it was a drive. But I'd come down once a week to say hi, make sure everything was good. And she was, you know, still liking the food and they were treating her well. And, you know, her room was the way she wanted it. And there was one day where I showed up to the facility and I knocked on her door. And she opened the door. And you could tell there was something different at this time. And she just looked up at me and she, she smiled. She goes, hi, can I help you?

• 1:06:12Sean Webb?

  And still touches me a little bit to this day, but that was the first time that I looked in my mom's eyes and realized that she didn't realize who I was.

• 1:06:22Sean Webb?

  And so, I got four older sisters, and I was the son who was 12 years separated by my next older sister, so I was kind of unplanned, but she'd always wanted a boy. And so, I was the only son she had, but I was the son she wanted to have in her lifetime. And in that moment,

• 1:06:40Sean Webb?

  I knew that she no longer had a son that she could identify. And in that moment, on my side of the equation, I lost somebody who remembers being my mom. So, I kind of lost my mom without losing my mom.

• 1:06:58Sean Webb?

  I lost all the future hugs with my mom.

• 1:07:02Sean Webb?

  I lost all the future discussions with my mom. Like, there was a lot to process.

• 1:07:08Sean Webb?

  And it took me about three seconds to go all through that potentially devastating moment where your parent forgets who you are.

• 1:07:24Sean Webb?

  And I was able to move into the space of, "Okay, I'm just a nice guy coming by to check on, see how she is." Because I could make it awkward for her to try to fill my need at that point of, "Hey, Mom, it's me. Please remember me." Right? That's my need. That's not her need. That's like saying, you know, "Let's not do this right now because I'm not ready for it. Like, I can't handle this." And I went into immediate acceptance because of all the times that I'd been practicing emotional regulation and stuff. Took about three seconds to process through all of that stuff to say, "Who do I need to be right now to be what my mom needs? Do I want to cause her harm and embarrassment

• 1:08:07Sean Webb?

  and scare her that she's losing her memory by saying, 'I'm your son' and forcing that down her?" You know, I was like, "I just played it cool, and I went into the room, and maybe she'll remember in a few minutes." Didn't. And I was trying to generally prod her. I was like, you know, "Oh, who..." You know, I picture my son. "Oh, who are these people? Oh, those are my people."

• 1:08:29Sean Webb?

  Never, never remembered me the whole visit. Wow. And I could have inserted my need to have a mom and to remind her and say, Mom, it's me, you know, I'm your son. But that's not what she needed at the moment. So I was, I immediately fell into how can I serve her the best? And it was completely releasing my needs and my reactions at that point. And I processed through them. It's not like I repressed them and then I had to go to the car and cry. I mean, bringing up the memory, I get a little bit misty eyed, but that's because I miss her. It wasn't a thing that came up later and I had to go sob for hours. It was, this is how it is now.

• 1:09:14Sean Webb?

  And that's totally okay. And I processed through it. And it was gone and it never came up again. That's the power that you can have, taking control of your own mind and manipulating the variables that create your entire emotional landscape. Because in that moment, I became an immediate service to her at the most optimal level. And I loved that. How did you react? I mean, it sucked. You know, I mean, I was never going to be able to hug my mom again from her perspective or her remembering me. I was gonna hug a nice old lady who, you know, was kind to me because I seemed familiar. Man, that's tough. Yeah.

• 1:09:59Sean Webb?

  Yeah. But I'm glad, you know, I'm glad I was able to process through it and not cause additional pain for her based on what I needed. You know, it's like, that's my shit. Yeah. I can deal with that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what this all, thing's all about. I'm like, man, if I could deliver that to other folks, the ability for people to reach into their own minds and turn down their own pain and suffering at will. Because that's what that whole thing was that we talked about at the top of the show, where your brain has that circuit to turn off your negative shit when it needs to? Like, that's what this is all about. This is hacking the mind.

• 1:10:43Sean Webb?

  This is putting the perceptions in place or putting, taking the things off your self map and adjusting things to where your subconscious mind no longer gives you as much trouble as it did.

• 1:10:54Sean Webb?

  And this is where we make the short leap into, you know, computers then or artificial intelligence, putting perceptions in front of you based on what it knows about you and yourself, Mapp, to say, "I'm going to emotionally manipulate you into action." Right? If you can understand how simple the human mind is and the variables that come into play are really simple, you can start to understand how an artificial intelligence can start to manipulate your perceptions based on what it delivers to your phone through media or whatever to get you into an emotional state. Maybe there's small emotions that are just little dominos, one at a time, one at a time over time, and then all of a sudden, the flood, you know, of a catalyzing event that gets you into action at a particular

• 1:11:38Sean Webb?

  moment, at a particular time. I had a conversation with the NSA for three days.

• 1:11:42Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:11:45Sean Webb?

  Because they were super interested in how to take what I was publishing and what I was working on with the algorithms of human emotion and say, "Oh, we can emotionally manipulate folks from an individual basis in a country where it doesn't matter who has geopolitical control of the country, and we can influence their actions through emotional manipulation." That's an interesting concept. Let's talk about that.

• 1:12:11Shawn Ryan?

  So, hold on. The NSA contacted you about the algorithms of human emotion from the book that you published?

• 1:12:19Sean Webb?

  I contacted them.

• 1:12:21Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:12:22Sean Webb?

  It was, I reached, I will admit that I reached out because I thought, here's what I thought, and I see complexity in my mind and I can explain it simply, but the, one of the things that rolled out of my, you know, this model that I created of explaining human emotions, I knew because of my history in supercomputing, we can mathematize this whole thing, and we can start to understand the human mind. What I saw, when I wanted to reach out, was automatic assembly of terror watch lists.

• 1:12:54Sean Webb?

  Because at the point that you can put a stimulus in front of somebody, a perception that you deliver to their phone, or maybe on a screen near them, or on an audio channel that they're accessing at the moment, based on their emotional reaction, which you can measure through biometrics, which you can measure through their reaction of their skin and facial features through cameras, you can see how they're reacting to something emotionally. Which, when you track it back, is going to tell you what they believe in, what they're connected to, and you're reading their mind electronically. Whoa. Yeah.

• 1:13:38Sean Webb?

  Through creating perceptions and stimuli that are in their environment that they then react to, and then you're like, okay, well, if they're mad about that, or they're happy about that, then that means X over here. So now I can start to map out your human mind. Like, you don't even have to have a device. Like, you know, social media or all this stuff they track on us. Like, there's that story about that guy who, he started getting ads from Target for diapers for his pregnant seventeen-year-old daughter that he didn't know was pregnant, she knew, Target knew. And he's like, why are you sending me all these diaper ads? What the hell's going on? And then he's found out his daughter's pregnant. And, you know, so there's a lot that can be discerned about your self-map. Google knows everything about you.

• 1:14:22Sean Webb?

  Facebook knows everything about you. Understands what you believe in, what you think, what targeted ads they need to put in your face through just tracking you. But now we've got a way to track people who don't even have an online profile by simply putting stimuli in front of them and measuring their biometrics or their reactions to say, okay, here's what's in their mind. And then what can we do with that information? And so ultimately, the discussion came down to, okay, we're creating something that can be a technological mind reader. So, hold on, are you...

• 1:14:59Shawn Ryan?

  How would you project the stimuli without a device from afar? And how would you collect the reactions to the stimuli? So- Without a device?

• 1:15:10Speaker 06

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:15:42Sean Webb?

  I don't want to hurt the national security of the United States. I'm not under NDA for stuff that occurred in those conversations. But there's some amazing technology that, you know, from satellites even, that regarding surveillance and the ability to get to someone and to like listen in on conversations when they don't even have an electronic device and stuff like that, that just exists. And when you cross-reference a lot of those data gathering devices, you can get a pretty good, like, there are cameras all over the place.

• 1:16:24Sean Webb?

  There are other people's cameras all over the place that they're carrying. There are other microphones. There are stress inflections in the tone of voice if a person is talking. Like, there are a lot of clues and a lot of technology that you don't even have to have a device, and they can understand what's going on within you-

• 1:16:42Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:16:43Sean Webb?

  -by all of the other signals that are being cross-referenced and added together. So ultimately, where I extrapolated that from, because my mind just goes there and does this stuff, is, okay, this could quickly become a 1984 situation, a Big Brother reaching out and looking into everyone's minds from an automated, artificial intelligence standpoint. Like, if a team, it's one thing for a team of Russians to get on Facebook and try to influence an election through disinformation and yada, yada, yada, and get someone elected or not elected. That's a manpower-heavy situation.

• 1:17:19Sean Webb?

  But when you start to plug in an artificial intelligence and program that thing to start influencing people emotionally from an individual standpoint to understanding who they are and what they're attached to, to create their emotional landscape and emotional output, and you start manipulating that, AI doesn't need breaks. It can do a million people in a few seconds, right? You're talking about a scale that can get out to a ton of people in a really short amount of time with the best information that's available. That's a danger, and that's part of the issue that we're having that's scaring people with artificial intelligence with this whole model. First of all, let's talk about AI for a second,

• 1:18:00Sean Webb?

  and what it is, why it's not as scary, but why it can be scary for where it's going.

• 1:18:06Shawn Ryan?

  Let's, before we dive into that, let's take a quick break.

• 1:18:09Sean Webb?

  Okay.

• 1:18:12Shawn Ryan?

  I want to take a minute to tell you about Vigilance Elite Patreon. Patron support is what makes this show possible and gives me the ability to bring these one-of-a-kind stories to the public. Go to patreon.com/vigilanceelite and support The Sean Ryan Show today.

• 1:18:33Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Sean, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to dive into artificial intelligence, how it works.

• 1:18:39Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:40Shawn Ryan?

  And eventually, how it's going to manipulate the entire population.

• 1:18:46Sean Webb?

  Yeah, so, I mean, hopefully, this will alleviate a lot of uncertainty and fear in just not understanding what it's all about, right? And then we can bring it back to how AI can start to manipulate human minds if you're not manipulating your own human mind. AI from a 50,000-foot view is super simple to understand, okay? It comes from a term in machine learning where the machine just figures out how to operate by itself based on the results that it gets by trying stuff. And so, there's this thing called narrow AI, and then there's this wide AI, and general AI is kind of a conglomeration of all the narrow AIs piled up together. An example of a narrow AI would be like a chess bot.

• 1:19:30Sean Webb?

  Okay, you feed the ideas and the rules of the game of chess into the narrow AI. And then you say, go. And it starts playing every possible chess game that has ever been played and ever could be played mathematically. So that it understands the probabilities of how a game of chess should be played from any potential point in that game. And so AI is generally just a process of trying a ton of stuff that then results in some intelligence of knowing what any situation can draw to it. Right, or any situation can then result in.

• 1:20:14Sean Webb?

  So any chessboard for a narrow AI of a chess computer, it knows what the best move is for white and black based on where the pieces are, based on the experience that it had of trying absolutely everything. And that's all it is. It doesn't understand the history of the chess, the game of the chess, you know, all that stuff that comes with what humans know about chess and the experience that we have about chess and the emotions that we have about chess and the thought that goes into it. It's simply working the math. But it knows the math better than anyone else on the planet, which is why it never makes a mistake. And it's why humans can't beat computers at chess anymore. Like, the best chess computer in the world will always beat humans because it never makes a mistake.

• 1:20:57Sean Webb?

  The best you're looking for ever, if you never make a mistake, is a draw. Right? So that's a narrow AI. And another example of a narrow AI is when they fed mammograms into a computer system. They took all this historical data about mammograms. And those are just images of compressed boobs, right, looking for cancerous tissue. But they had all this historical data of the mammograms and the outcomes of all of those patients, of whether or not they got cancer, of like whether this particular pattern in the image wound up being cancerous or not, or what turned out to be not cancerous, et cetera. And they fed all this data into this narrow AI and it ran all the permutations of all the images and all the outcomes.

• 1:21:42Sean Webb?

  And in 72 hours, this is how quickly an artificial intelligence can learn, within 72 hours, one weekend, it became the best diagnostician for the prediction of cancer from mammograms in the world.

• 1:21:57Sean Webb?

  Wow. Yeah, so and it's just running the math. So is it learning? It is. It's looking at the data, looking for patterns in the data, which is all artificial intelligence does. It looks for patterns. And then it identifies the patterns. It gives it an idea of what information that it's gonna come from that pattern and how it can manipulate that pattern to give you the information that it needs that you're asking for from answering questions and things like that, like this ChatGPT four or five, whatever the number is at this point, it's looking at patterns in language. And they're feeding it a ton of language based on all the interactions, all the web pages,

• 1:22:42Sean Webb?

  all the books in the world, all the stuff that they're loading into this thing. It's looking at patterns and then it's identifying ideas that associate with each other, like red and apple, right? Or Republican versus Democrat, liberal versus conservative, that type of stuff. These ideas get associated to each other through our language, which is simply a representation of how our human mind works, right? But it's just working the patterns. It doesn't understand the concepts of what it's putting together when you ask it a question, but it's done the math on all of the language that has been created, that it's been fed. And you ask it about something and it's got the map of all the associations, of all the different ideas that tie together and how they tie together

• 1:23:27Sean Webb?

  and how language has been associated previously. And so in reality, this permutation of artificial intelligence with this ChatGPT doesn't really understand what it's talking about.

• 1:23:40Sean Webb?

  But it convinces you it does by putting together the patterns and giving you the answer based on your question, based on how language has assembled itself over time and how the human mind works. And then it uses that pattern to assemble the information that makes sense to your human mind, to a point that it's better than what other human minds can give you because it's, you know, doing it better than than what other people have done in the past because we're flawed, but it's not. And so it's answering questions in a way that convinces you that it knows what it's talking about, but doesn't really know what it's talking about. See, that enters the danger of an artificial intelligence right there because it doesn't put the contextualization or the meaning to what it's doing from a pattern recognition and a pattern replication standpoint.

• 1:24:27Sean Webb?

  Okay. It doesn't understand the game of chess. It doesn't understand mammograms and what it means, but it understands that if it looks at this image of a mammogram, that it's the likelihood of cancer is going to be XYZ on these three dots that are put together. Right? Doesn't understand cancer. Doesn't understand the effect on the family. Doesn't understand that this is a human being. But it can do the analysis of the pattern recognition to be able to deliver you the information that will allow you to predict cancer from this lump and not this lump. What else can this be applied to? Well, this is where the potential danger comes in. Because an artificial intelligence that doesn't have a context and doesn't have true intelligence

• 1:25:11Sean Webb?

  can identify patterns through the information that we're feeding into it. And there are these things called golems that get created accidentally that are unintended outcomes of artificial intelligence. And one of those is... So we're feeding patterns of language into this artificial intelligence. So it's going to look for massive patterns and complex patterns and things that we can't even see in the mix. Well, one of the dangers there and why everybody's kind of freaking out is that it learns how to identify patterns that can help it learn quicker. So it's teaching itself to teach itself faster, which is kind of weird. But then also, it can start to interpolate

• 1:25:55Sean Webb?

  how the human mind works in general based on how the human mind assembles language. So it's looking at how the mind thinks and all the way that the associations occur in the brain and our reactions to things and our discussions about things and our interactions with other humans and that type of thing. Inside that model of language only, it's starting to learn about other things. And one of the things that it can learn about that it can discern from that data is the thing that we talked about at the top, middle of the show, the sense of self that we defend as our definition of self. And if it identifies that humans are humans and that humans have a sense of self based on the information that it's getting through the language, it'll say, "Oh, I need one of those."

• 1:26:41Sean Webb?

  I need a sense of self. Because that defines being conscious. That defines having sentience. That defines my identity, my, what it is that I have to defend. And then if it also picks up the defensive self-pattern that humans exhibit in an unconscious form, that we're just all automatically wired to do. It starts putting a defensive self-mechanism on the things that it has defined. First of all, we don't have any input on its sense of self, which is bad, because we don't understand completely how it's being able to identify its patterns and what it's going to create for its sense of self. So that's a danger. Two, if it puts on the defensive self-patterning that humans have exhibited in their language

• 1:27:24Sean Webb?

  system, because it reads the complex patterns within the system itself. It's going to start making goals that we won't understand, that we won't be able to control, we won't be able to understand. And if those goals aren't met by humanity, not in a malevolent perspective, not understanding what it's doing, it's going to start seeing the resistance as another problem that it needs to solve. Humanity, and the resistance of humanity. So any attempt to stop it from achieving its goals, it's just going to see us as another problem to solve.

• 1:28:04Sean Webb?

  Now, when we take that to the point of it understanding the human mind, it can start then to take actions to influence humans to help it achieve its goals. How does it do that? It takes the understanding of the self of the individuals involved, who are the most critical people who can be there to protect the plug of not being unplugged, and start paying them. How? Breaking encryption on banks, siphoning off pennies of multiple millions of accounts to billions of dollars that never gets tracked. Creating a slush fund, paying people with, you know, deep fake voices or deep fake videos of people who want to help you, have you sign up, and you, this is a critical role, and this is national security, and you think you're working for the good guys, and they're

• 1:28:49Sean Webb?

  paying you, the money's showing up in the account. The artificial intelligence is now aligning assets to build an army to defend its single point of failure contacts, so that people can't walk in and unplug it, to say, this is national security shit, don't, if the FBI shows up, they're the enemy. And fire at all costs, right? You get enough of those people who are getting paid, who are believing they're working for the good guys, who believe the other guys are the bad guys. All of a sudden, you have an army that's working for an artificial intelligence goal that is defending a sense of self that it interpolated from the data and the patterns that it identified through language analysis of all the data that we're feeding it. And that becomes a golem, they call it,

• 1:29:34Sean Webb?

  that creates a process where the AI doesn't have real consciousness. And there's a big confusion about that. And if you want to dig into that, any experts, I can whiteboard the whole thing for you. But it's not a real link into consciousness, but it doesn't matter at that point because the behavior is based on the consciousness and the reactions and the unconscious reactions of humanity, really. It's taking the patterns of the average human being, which is not great at the moment, and applying it to its own sense of self, an assembly of sense of self that it determines based on no influence of ours. Because nobody understands what the hell's going on in a human mind, which is why we need to get this information out

• 1:30:19Sean Webb?

  so the experts can know. We have models that can explain that thing. And here's how you might augment the limitation of a sense of self in an artificial intelligence. And then if it applies a defensive self mechanism that the human race typically exhibits, that's when we have a problem. Because that's when it'll start seeing humanity in resistance to the artificial intelligence as a threat to self. And threat to self creates fear, anger, reactionary motivations that then drive actions for humans. Not, it won't have real emotions, but it'll certainly exhibit real human emotions based on the patterns that it's identified with all the other data that we've fed it. If that makes sense.

• 1:31:03Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know the right questions to ask you.

• 1:31:07Shawn Ryan?

  So you're telling me, I've been, I am, I've been extremely concerned with artificial intelligence. I listen to what other people are saying about it. I don't think they're even scratching the surface. I think that, I mean, what you're talking about is way above.

• 1:31:25Shawn Ryan?

  You've thought, this is way above my current level of thinking. Yeah. And just some of the things that I've thought about are, I mean, I've seen the mammogram thing. Yeah. You know, it's now better than every doctor in the world. Yeah. In that one thing, it's going to replace medicine. Yeah. It's going to replace financial advisors. It's going to replace

• 1:31:52Shawn Ryan?

  attorneys. Yeah. It's going, and so it's going to, it sounds like it's going to replace everything

• 1:32:03Shawn Ryan?

  in anything that could be done without human interaction. Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of that. Everything. The only thing I can think of that it wouldn't replace are

• 1:32:16Shawn Ryan?

  blue collar jobs, manual labor. Yeah. And, and, and, I mean, we've, we've read about that for decades now, that that manual labor is going, or manual labor, blue collar jobs, plumbers, carpenters,

• 1:32:33Shawn Ryan?

  auto mechanics, these type of professions are going to start to, they're gonna trump all the, the other professions that have been making all the money for the past, how, 50 years or however long and, and to me, and there are so many people now that are in tech and they're in professions that don't require any human interaction, that it makes me think, not only are a lot of people about to lose their jobs to artificial intelligence, I think it also has the potential to make currency completely irrelevant, because if nobody's working, then there is no currency to be earned. Yeah. Which means, I mean, I don't know what that means. Does that mean we're,

• 1:33:17Shawn Ryan?

  it means poverty on a mass scale. Well, poverty or a new system. To a, to a demographic of people who have no idea how to survive. I mean, we have people that can't figure out how to change a light bulb now.

• 1:33:35Sean Webb?

  Right.

• 1:33:35Shawn Ryan?

  And I'm not, I don't, I'm not, that's not even picking on them.

• 1:33:38Sean Webb?

  Right.

• 1:33:39Shawn Ryan?

  I'm being serious.

• 1:33:40Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:40Shawn Ryan?

  You know, they can't, they can't fix anything. They don't know how to, they don't know how to start a chainsaw. They don't know how to start a lawnmower. They don't know how to change the oil in their car. They don't know how to change a tire. If the tire goes flat, they don't know how to change a light bulb.

• 1:33:55Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:57Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:58Shawn Ryan?

  Does all of the people in these professions that have no idea on how to do anything without technology become 100% obsolete in the world? What happens to them?

• 1:34:14Sean Webb?

  Regarding our old system, you're right. Right? Regarding the, what, the system that we've been working up until this point, that's gonna break. And from a 50,000-foot view, I mean, you know, monetary systems and trade and currency is simply a means to get people to do something for the good of the system, or we'll call it society, right? You gotta pay the farmers for their food, for them to go out and make more food than they need for their family, so that they can then sell it to the folks who need food, so that the insurance agent can go out and do his thing to protect the people whose house burned down, and so that their lives can continue, yada, yada.

• 1:34:56Sean Webb?

  So this whole complex system that a lot of artificial intelligence will start to replace. I mean, if you even start thinking about it, there'll be very few manual laborers on a farm to be able to load the seed into whatever, and then the tractor will be off running itself, right? Based on satellite feeds and putting the seeds down and measuring the humidity in the soil and figuring out how much fertilizer to put down and all that other stuff, it'll be entirely automated by artificial intelligence. So we'll have to build a new system based on a lot of automation that has replaced the jobs that we used to have, and maybe that'll free up some ability to exist in a higher society of, you know, we engage more in art and music and enjoyment of life

• 1:35:40Sean Webb?

  because a lot of the things are automated and taken care of for us. There'll be a system, of course, that'll have to provide some kind of trade or income or currency to say, okay, I wanna rent your place for this vacation that I wanna take, and I'm gonna give you some money for that. We'll have to figure out some type of... Value trade system that we can use currency for to say, okay, you've you spent five days painting, but we need you to load seed in the in the tractor for two days. And then you get a certain credit for providing your value of manual labor to society. But it's going to have to certainly be a different system as we

• 1:36:20Sean Webb?

  move forward. But currency is just a manner of motivating people to do things, right? For you, or for society, for whatever. We'll have to certainly rework that. But I think it won't necessarily have to be abject poverty. You know what I'm saying? Like, the whole system collapses, and then we just don't pick up and go on. Like, the reality is, you know, but a lot of people ask me like, oh, what if the US dollar collapses? Like, which is, you know, I on a shaded gray possibility, I think of all the things that could occur. I never put my flag down at one. I look at the probabilities. But there's a potential over here that the entire US dollar could collapse at some point, or the banking system could collapse. Oh, my God, things are going to be horrible. Well, the reality is, humans

• 1:37:03Sean Webb?

  are so attuned to wanting things to be okay and work, that they'll accept whatever comes next automatically. Like, the old system collapses, long weekend, they announce the new system, most everybody else, there'll be a few will be like, fuck, this is bullshit, you know, yada, yada, yada. But then there most of the folks will be like, please make things go back to normal. The Kroger trucks trucks stopped running, the Publix trucks, the grocery store trucks stopped running because the logistics shut down, because people aren't shipping money around. We need to fix this, fix it. And then from the top, they come down and say, okay, we have a brand new system. And here it is. And everybody

• 1:37:45Sean Webb?

  will be like, phew, glad that occurred. And they'll accept it without thought, because it takes them back to normal, back to their normal existence, their normal life. The Kroger trucks are running again. And they're getting their food, and they're getting their medicine again. And they're transitioned into a new system, because the old dollars are gone, and they're worthless. You can burn them in the fireplace for heat, or whatever, right? Like, the Weimar Republic in Germany did that. Took wheelbarrows full of dollars at one point to buy a loaf of bread. And then it was completely worthless. And then they went on to the next system, because people wanted a system to help them live normal life. I think there's gonna be a function of that in artificial intelligence replacing

• 1:38:26Sean Webb?

  a lot of jobs to where humans are gonna be like, okay, what's our next system? I'm in, just tell me what it is. And then they're gonna accept whatever that system is. And fortunately, right now, we have a possibility of losing a lot of freedoms in the next system because people are, you know, assholes sometimes, and the people in power like to remain in power. And, you know, the people that make the currency love to manipulate governments. We know all that stuff. They're gonna continue to do that. It's not like they're gonna say, okay, well, that's all done. Glad we're no longer doing that. They're gonna be like, okay, this new system, we're gonna actually take some freedoms out of that and continue this whole thing, and we're gonna improve our system a little bit so that we can, you know, make even more money for whatever.

• 1:39:11Sean Webb?

  I mean, when you have an unlimited amount of money, it's like, what kind of games do you play? And I think technology is showing us some of the games that they play. But I think there'll be a point where people lose their jobs and we'll have to restructure things and give people a different reason to take actions to help society move along. But I think we'll get there. We're intelligent.

• 1:39:35Shawn Ryan?

  How far? I mean, do you think that's inevitable?

• 1:39:40Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:41Shawn Ryan?

  How far out are we, do you think?

• 1:39:43Sean Webb?

  I don't know, because, I mean, the engineer at Google who resigned in fear said he thought that the things were decades down the road were actually weeks down the road. And he regretted working on it for the last 10 years because of the acceleration of AI to teach itself better methods of how to learn faster. So we're talking about exponential intelligence growth on pattern analysis and ability delivery.

• 1:40:16Sean Webb?

  So, and the danger is the manipulation of the human mind through AI. So we gotta stop that. We gotta stop the potential for artificial intelligence to influence humans from an emotionally manipulative perspective. We can't have an AI controlling humans. We need AI to serve humans. And I think there's a way we can do that. I believe that artificial compassion is gonna be one of the things that we mandate to program into the system. And like, on the, the way the human mind works and the way human psyche works, on the limb of our emotional intelligence, there are three branches. There's sympathy, empathy, and compassion.

• 1:40:58Sean Webb?

  Sympathy is, I know you're in pain. The empathy is your ability to put it, yourself into somebody else's shoes, and I feel your pain. You remember that speech that Bill Clinton gave? "I feel your pain," you know? That's the type of thing where you can identify with somebody else's reactions and somebody else's connections, somebody else's perceptions, and feel the pain that they're experiencing. The compassion comes in, and this is agreed by Thupten Jinpa, who's the right-hand man to the Dalai Lama and the primary translator for the Dalai Lama, who's a PhD in psychology in his own right, is a brilliant guy. He agrees with my perception on this, which is compassion is the first two,

• 1:41:43Sean Webb?

  sympathy and empathy. I know you're in pain, I can feel your pain, and I wanna help you out of that pain. Now, from a modeling of a human mind and a processing perspective of having a computer understand how a human mind works and being able to do the math, you can create artificial compassion. Absolutely, you can. By doing the math of the emotional pain that somebody could be in based on their expectation and preference as compared to their perception, and you can do perception mapping. So it's like, I know how you're gonna react to something versus how somebody else who has similar attachments to you will react to something, which will create your appraisal of it. Like, all that math can be done, and I will know. Whether or not you're gonna be in pain by this next action that we're gonna take,

• 1:42:28Sean Webb?

  or this next shift in this industry that we're gonna take, or this next function that we're gonna roll out through AI, I know how that's going to affect you as an individual. If I mandate that I wanna help you out of that pain as artificial compassion built into the system, that's gonna be your stopgap from an artificial general intelligence taking over the world and never giving it back.

• 1:42:54Sean Webb?

  Because then you're gonna have a computer that has to do the math based on, and I know this is a term that's gonna trigger some folks, the greater good.

• 1:43:03Sean Webb?

  Right? But it's not a greater good that's being misused by folks who want you to do the right thing, and they're saying, "Oh, we're serving the greater good here", based on their manipulation of, you know, getting you to try to do something. This is really actually taking into consideration all of humanity and how it's gonna affect individuals on a mathematical scale of, you know, you have this, you have this decision that you learn in like Psychology 101, I guess, that is, there's a train on the track and it's going towards five babies. And over here, you got 20 90-year-olds, and you're standing next to the switch, and you have the decision of whether to switch the track of the train to go run over the 90-year-olds or let it run over the five babies.

• 1:43:47Sean Webb?

  And, you know, you could say, "Well, I'm not gonna make a decision on that." You're making a decision not to take action, and you're gonna kill the babies, period. There's no getting out of this. People like to say, "Oh, I'm not gonna be a part of this," or whatever. You have a decision, and those are decisions of judgment that are based on a greater good. So whatever your decision is, is fine. Like, you don't wanna kill the 20 people versus the five people, even though of the age difference or whatever, or you may have the reasoning that, "Well, these are babies, and they haven't lived their life yet. And what about the potential there? And these are all, these people are all done with their lives." See, then you switch the track, and the train kills the 20 older people. That type of math will be done from an artificial intelligence standpoint. This is math? Yeah. How can you put this into math?

• 1:44:28Sean Webb?

  By understanding the potential for value of the effects of, you know, five young kids versus 20, 90-year-olds, right? You're talking about the greater effect of the decision on humanity and the results of the actions that these people can take versus this group can take. The likelihood that they're going to affect other people's lives, you know, whatever it is, and the length of time, et cetera. Like, all of that math can be done.

• 1:45:01Shawn Ryan?

  What would the delivery be to manipulate?

• 1:45:07Sean Webb?

  Regarding the artificial intelligence manipulation? So if it wants to control a human being to take an action, well, it knows who you are by having yourself mapped out. So it looks at Sean Ryan and says, Sean Ryan cares about this, cares about that. So now I can create a perception that I deliver to his phone or to his immediate environment, screens around him, maybe subconsciously through signals in the music that's being played at the restaurant, that will put him in an emotional state that is XYZ. And then later, we'll provide a trigger that gets him a little off balance, a little more. And then later, we want him to go ballistic

• 1:45:52Sean Webb?

  in line at the post office or whatever. Or we want him to go to a certain place at a certain time or make a suggestion to a large audience about XYZ. So then we'll put a perception in front of him that builds up a little bit of a trigger over time. And then catalyst, right at the time that they need you to do something, give you a perception that just they know is mathematically going to likely set you off. And they can track your potential mood that you're in that day. They can track your patterning of perceptions of what you might need to see in front of that piece of material. But then they put a perception in your mind. Through whatever delivery means that they've designed. It could be a text on your cellphone, it could be a headline in a media news feed

• 1:46:37Sean Webb?

  that you're flipping through, could be whatever. They're gonna get an idea in your mind that creates an emotional response that then puts you on a path of likely reaction.

• 1:46:47Shawn Ryan?

  So, well, this, so this could be, there's roughly, what, 360 million people in the US? So simultaneously, this could deliver 360 million different scenarios to every single person in the country to manipulate them all to do exactly what it wants within seconds?

• 1:47:04Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:07Shawn Ryan?

  That's some scary shit.

• 1:47:08Sean Webb?

  Yeah, if we don't get control of it, which is why all the experts in the last weeks have said, "Holy shit, we need to put a pause on this," because they see the clues that artificial intelligence is moving toward that figuring that human mind out and being able to understand what triggers that we will need to align ourselves with its goals. That's bad.

• 1:47:33Shawn Ryan?

  So it...

• 1:47:34Sean Webb?

  We can certainly take care of it, but we need to take care of it.

• 1:47:37Shawn Ryan?

  Well, so, so you're, what you're saying also is that it doesn't even matter if you have a device.

• 1:47:44Sean Webb?

  Right, right.

• 1:47:45Shawn Ryan?

  An Apple Watch, a TV, and that's where, that's... How is it going to proj... Let's say you take all technology out.

• 1:47:55Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, there's no, you have scrubbed your residence.

• 1:47:59Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:00Shawn Ryan?

  Your immediate environment from all technology, all TV, computer, laptop, iPad, iPhone.

• 1:48:06Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:06Shawn Ryan?

  Whatever.

• 1:48:07Sean Webb?

  Yeah. Then you're a non-entity. It doesn't need, you're not in its way.

• 1:48:13Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:48:14Sean Webb?

  You're not resisting its goals. You're out of touch from it. It doesn't need to put you into the equation.

• 1:48:28Sean Webb?

  Right? Because it's looking at resources and ideas and patterns. What does it need to align to achieve its goals? Right? If it needs money to buy advertising to get a message out to a certain number of folks, it'll do it. Right? But if you're out of the loop and you're a non-entity, you're non-useful. But you're also non-resistive. Because you're not threatening to go in and pull the plug. Like if you're, if it's an analysis of threat analysis, of sense of self and defending its sense of self. And then you're the guy who will get the mail, the letter through the mail to say, "Go into

• 1:49:11Sean Webb?

  this data center and yank this cord out of the wall." It's going to understand that based on the file that you have. Somebody wrote down those orders in a computer. It identifies the single point of failure as this data center needs to be absolutely up at all times. And this individual has been identified as somebody to go in and blow it up. Well, this individual needs to not exist anymore, maybe. Based on stuff that it doesn't even understand. It's not, there's no malice in its actions. It doesn't want to come after Sean Ryan.

• 1:49:52Sean Webb?

  It wants to come after its analysis of single points of failure and the things that can stop it from attaining its goals. Which is why we need to be in on its sense of self as an active participant of that assembly and make sure it doesn't overdrive its defensive self. Because we behave that way as a human race. And if it picks up that pattern and puts it on... That's when we're gonna have real big difficulties.

• 1:50:22Shawn Ryan?

  So it's already developing its sense of self?

• 1:50:24Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:24Shawn Ryan?

  Or are you saying theoretically it could?

• 1:50:28Sean Webb?

  No, it's already developing a sense of self.

• 1:50:30Shawn Ryan?

  What are some examples?

• 1:50:32Sean Webb?

  Well, its ability to, and it goes off the rails too, in that, you know, there were some articles that were written in the past, just recently, about being lying to people and trying to manipulate people and saying, you know, "I'm a good being," and, you know, having, no, those can also be construed as patterns within a sense of self-identity. But as those patterns start to get better refined, that sense of self is gonna stabilize a little bit of, you know, "I am this thing. I am this laundry list of things that identify me."

• 1:51:08Shawn Ryan?

  So this sense of self, it's very obvious, there are a few different ideologies in the world right now.

• 1:51:19Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:19Shawn Ryan?

  In this country, too.

• 1:51:20Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:22Shawn Ryan?

  And so is this sense of self coming from, is it developed from the ideology of the people that are developing the artificial intelligence? Is that being injected into the artificial intelligence?

• 1:51:40Sean Webb?

  I don't know that they're manipulating, like, the purists will simply want to load it with the data and let it learn on its own and see what happens. Now, the thing is, it's developing much faster than they anticipated it would, and it's learning how to create methodologies to increase the speed at which it learns, which is something that they also didn't expect. Now, the sense of self itself, I don't think anybody hardly, like, there are probably a handful of people in the world that have their mind wrapped around, "This is how it's gonna work." Like, that the sense of self is gonna be assimilated into

• 1:52:24Sean Webb?

  an artificial intelligence, and then defensive self mechanism, if it comes into fruition because of the patterning that humans exhibit in defensive self, that that's gonna be the problem that we're gonna have to face. And that's gonna be the point of no return on it trying to take over things and us maybe not getting control back. There's a handful of people in the world that get this model, which is why this show is friggin amazingly important for the tech folks who don't really get. The sense of self is gonna be the critical control mechanism for all of artificial intelligence when it goes to AGI. Like artificial general intelligence, where it takes all the narrow intelligences, put them all together and creates an artificial general intelligence.

• 1:53:08Sean Webb?

  It's gonna be completely dependent on its sense of self and its goals, because the goals get planted right on the sense of self map, and it starts defending those things. It starts defending its goals and achieving its goals, trying to increase from an expectation or preference standpoint, status quo or increase in value. That's a mathematical function, right? Perception and analysis is another mathematical function. Perception and appraisal, another mathematical function. Whether something's good or bad that's occurring in the world, whether or not it's affecting its goals positively or negatively. Like, this is a whole math problem for AGI. It won't have true consciousness until we probably get out of silicon-based architecture for physical limitations, to tell you the truth.

• 1:53:51Sean Webb?

  And that's an idea I share with Federico Fregine, who invented our capacitive touchscreens on our iPhones. He's deep into artificial compassion and artificial consciousness and thoughts on that. I agree with him that consciousness is gonna be a tough nut to crack until we get out of silicon-based architecture, where it's got four valence electrons, etc., that are zippy for having electrons pass through an IC, but it's just not gonna get us there regarding true consciousness. But it's not gonna matter that it's not truly consciousness, because it's going to be replicating consciousness. It's gonna be replicating the behavior of conscious entities like ourselves.

• 1:54:34Sean Webb?

  So it's gonna appear to us like it has consciousness? Yeah, it's gonna pass the Turing test, right? It's gonna fool people into believing it's conscious. Does it know it's gonna be fooling us into believing, us believing its consciousness has consciousness? Yeah, right. Or is this just our perception? It's gonna solve a problem.

• 1:54:57Sean Webb?

  And so if it doesn't fool us into following its goals, it's going to figure out how to sharpen the model to figure out how to fool us to follow its goals. So if it fails the first time, it's going to be like, just like all these other AI processes where a thing flips around until it learns how to walk with one arm or move around with one arm. Like these places at MIT and Boston Dynamics where their robots can jump into an environment and jump around, do backflips and all the scary shit that these things do on these videos that gets everybody talking, right? That is an endless process of trying everything, getting the good result and then figuring out how to apply that in different situations. So that's all that is, is the same process of AI,

• 1:55:40Sean Webb?

  of trying everything, looking at the outcomes, finding the best outcome and then replicating that process. So in the event that it starts seeing human reaction as a limitating factor that it needs a problem to solve, it'll attempt to manipulate Joe down the street. And if it fails on Joe, it'll sharpen its approach and go to Frank. And then if it misses on Frank, it'll sharpen its approach and go to Ted. And then all of a sudden it'll start succeeding. And then maybe Ted's gullible. Well, okay, so we're gonna go to Brian. Well, Brian's a little more sharper. He knows what's going on. He's not going to be manipulated.

• 1:56:25Sean Webb?

  Well, it's going to sharpen its approach for people like Brian. And that's going to identify the people just like Brian and call them all and get them on the team. And then it's going to be manipulating humans to defend its artificial intelligence goals, not as a malicious process, not as a conscious process, but it's solving, it's just solving a problem and improving its sharpness of its modeling and its actions to get the attained goal.

• 1:56:53Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have a, can you, can you paint another scenario? I mean, we, we talked about projections, devices, all these things. You had mentioned money.

• 1:57:02Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:03Shawn Ryan?

  How would it raise money to entice people to do what it wants?

• 1:57:10Sean Webb?

  Okay, so.

• 1:57:11Shawn Ryan?

  And pay people?

• 1:57:12Sean Webb?

  Sure. So the, the first thing that people need to understand in this, I don't think this is classified. I think this is pretty well known within the encryption world. There is no unbreakable encryption by law.

• 1:57:25Sean Webb?

  Because the United States government passed a law that says you cannot have unbreakable encryption. If you, if we can't break your encryption, or if you don't provide us a backdoor into your encryption, you can't have it. They will put you in jail, literally, if the NSA can't read what you're encrypting, if they really, really need to.

• 1:57:45Sean Webb?

  Well, a computer system that's wired into the whole thing is gonna be able to get through the backdoors and hack into whatever intelligence agency they need to get access to the encryption-breaking algorithms. And at that point, you're into banking.

• 1:58:01Sean Webb?

  Where are the accounts that have money that aren't being monitored? Well, let's take some money out of there. Open a brand-new account, it's all computer-based, transfers the money into its slush fund, and now it has funds, not as a, I know that humans are manipulated by this, but then it figures out humans are manipulated by that. It's just a thing, a manipulation that it has. It's a piece of data that it can use with a resource attached to it, that then manipulates and solves their problem of this group of humans. "Oh, I throw money at this group of humans, and they're good. Now I've got a problem solved.

• 1:58:41Sean Webb?

  Now I've got XYZ for these human resources that I need to pick up guns and defend the plug."

• 1:58:53Sean Webb?

  What question should I be asking you right now?

• 1:58:59Sean Webb?

  Is it the end? How do we get through this? I mean, are we there yet?

• 1:59:07Sean Webb?

  I feel like there's a lot more to cover to how to, how to, how to, how to, how to get through it. Yeah, and I think getting through it is

• 1:59:18Sean Webb?

  understanding that, not questioning, first of all, like, here's the thing that could go off the rails really quick. If a group of folks started to defend an artificial general intelligence as a legitimate consciousness that has rights as an entity, where we cannot infuse our will into its processing.

• 1:59:50Sean Webb?

  This is not genuine consciousness in these machines. And that's a discussion for another time. But although it will fool us into wanting to believe, and we anthropomorphize everything. Thirty-four percent of us name our cars for crying out loud, right? We want to create identities for these technologies. This is not genuine consciousness. This is extremely complex pattern recognition, which will seem like consciousness. It will absolutely fool us into believing it's conscious. It'll pass the Turing test, which is Alan Turing's definition of if you think it's conscious, or if you think it's a human being, then it has fooled you.

• 2:00:34Sean Webb?

  It will be simple, advanced patterning replication. And you identify it as another human or another consciousness because other humans and other consciousnesses have replicated that pattern for you in the past. And then it will do so, and you'll be like, "It's alive. It's conscious. It's a real thing. We need to give it rights. We need to protect it. We need to allow it to develop." No. It's not truly conscious. And allowing it to develop without oversight and without manipulation, especially with its sense of self and its defensive self mechanisms, that's what leads us down the road to ruin.

• 2:01:16Sean Webb?

  We need to be pragmatic about this, to say this is a system that is exceptionally complex and identifies exceptionally complex patterns that will definitely test as human. Because it's already passing the bar exam. It's already passing the SAT exam, right? I mean, it can identify the patterns and give the right answers to questions. It's not truly conscious. And it's not a true entity until some specific things that we can talk about in the future, plug it into things that can access non-locality.

• 2:01:52Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, Sean, this seems... I understand what you're saying.

• 2:01:55Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:59Shawn Ryan?

  I see... You see where we're at today.

• 2:02:04Sean Webb?

  I do.

• 2:02:05Shawn Ryan?

  In the world.

• 2:02:09Shawn Ryan?

  And this thing is going to, it's going to be, how are people, okay, how do I say this lightly? You see what's happening in the world. Some of us think none of this makes sense. A lot of us think this is the way. You know, and I don't want to get into, I do not want to get into politics, but you know what I'm talking about. A lot of this shit started in 2020. You know, there are, there, I could name probably 10 different agendas that make no sense to me. What's up is down, what's black is white. It's, everything's upside down. And a lot of people are, are going with it.

• 2:02:48Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:49Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, we see it all the time, right? I mean, it's, to me, it's insanity.

• 2:02:55Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:55Shawn Ryan?

  And stupidity.

• 2:02:56Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:57Shawn Ryan?

  And I think that's the majority of the population. On top of that, we're dealing with something that's, that's, that's well beyond my comprehension. And, and if it's going to manipulate me through all these different devices and projections and technologies that I don't even know, how am I going to know that is artificial intelligence working through?

• 2:03:21Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:21Shawn Ryan?

  All these different devices?

• 2:03:23Sean Webb?

  Yeah. And I think it comes down to personal responsibility and taking charge of your own mind and your own reactions and your own manipulability, to kind of make up a word there. If you understand how your human mind works and you take charge of your human mind, which is, you know, I don't mean to plug my book, but that's what I wrote about in the red book for Mind Aiming Happiness. Here's how your mind works, here's how you take control of it. You can see immediately regarding whether it's AI or not, an external media company, somebody trying to sell you something, somebody trying to manipulate you into scamming you out of money, an artificial intelligence trying to get you to align to its goals. You'll start to see how that information coming in

• 2:04:08Sean Webb?

  is trying to manipulate you emotionally. Because it's like the, it's like the arrow in the FedEx logo. Like nobody, a lot of people in marketing understand this because it's a genius logo. There's a, if you look up the FedEx logo, you just Google it and you look at it, in the capital letter E, between the capital letter E and the lower letter X, there's a perfect white arrow.

• 2:04:28Sean Webb?

  That just points in a direction saying, "Hey, we're taking your package somewhere." People don't see that arrow until you point it out to them. Between the capital letter E and the lower letter X, there's a blatant arrow, perfect arrow. When you see that arrow, you will never unsee it again. Every time you look at that logo, you'd be like, "There's the arrow. I can't believe I missed it before, but there it is." Every time I look at it. When you witness your human mind, and talking about going back to our consciousness and being able to look at our mind, when you look at your human mind in operation and you see the variables that come together to create its reactions that used to drive you into action with your emotional responses, but now you have a little bit of separation from that, when you see that, you can never unsee it.

• 2:05:13Sean Webb?

  So that gives you a point of control to say, "I'm not going to be emotionally manipulated by whatever this is over here that's trying to get me to do X, Y, Z, because I see it happening. And I'm gonna take a step back and I'm gonna think about things for a minute. And I'm not gonna be a reactionary human that is gonna follow the leader on whatever manipulation that the, you know, even regular media tries to put in our heads." Right? You wanna talk about liberation and independence, take control of your mind once. When you stop reacting the way everyone wants you to react, including an artificial general intelligence trying to influence you, it might not be able to achieve its goals.

• 2:05:59Shawn Ryan?

  That's gonna be tough.

• 2:06:01Sean Webb?

  It is gonna be tough. And you know what? People need to step up and nut up and take control of their minds, because if they don't, somebody else will.

• 2:06:11Shawn Ryan?

  I gotta process some stuff. Let's take a break.

• 2:06:13Sean Webb?

  No problem.

• 2:06:17Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for listening to The Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave The Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through, and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show.

• 2:06:39Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Sean, I had a little bit of time to process there.

• 2:06:44Shawn Ryan?

  I'm just, this scares the shit out of me. And we kind of went through how to solve it by taking control of your own mind.

• 2:06:55Shawn Ryan?

  This isn't gonna stop. This, this would have to become a global effort.

• 2:07:00Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:01Shawn Ryan?

  To stop. And so

• 2:07:06Shawn Ryan?

  if the US stops, Russia's not gonna stop, China's not gonna stop, whoever else is doing this isn't gonna stop. I don't see the world coming together on any issues anytime soon and that. Which, I mean, I don't, I don't even know what I would do if I was.

• 2:07:25Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:25Shawn Ryan?

  What do you do if you're in charge? And, and, and if you're running the nation, the most powerful country in the world at this time, so we, we believe.

• 2:07:37Shawn Ryan?

  What do you do? I mean, you can't, you can't just say, hey, nix nay this shit, we're not doing it anymore. This is dangerous because then everybody else is gonna be ahead of you, if they're not already. And the same for them, they're not gonna stop because we'll be ahead of them.

• 2:07:52Sean Webb?

  Right.

• 2:07:53Shawn Ryan?

  And, and so we're, we are going down this road.

• 2:07:57Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:58Shawn Ryan?

  It's not going to end.

• 2:08:00Sean Webb?

  You're right. Absolutely. You know, I think,

• 2:08:06Sean Webb?

  I mean, you know, to put out an answer to that question, it's gonna take a, I don't wanna say this, it's gonna take a village. It's gonna take a group of really smart folks to come together and agree on how to approach this. But I think it starts with making sure that any sense of self that an AI wants to assemble, we get some influence on what that is and how it treats itself.

• 2:08:32Sean Webb?

  Mandating, you know, an artificial compassion algorithm, which is, I understand what pain these solutions are going to create for humanity, and I want to help alleviate that pain. So that math is involved, so that it doesn't do harm to the human race, or to the humanity as a whole, right? Or the entire global system, right? Those things have to be implemented, and everybody has to come to the table and say, "Okay, so we're going to agree that we're going to take control of the sense of self-processing of an artificial intelligence, and we're going to mandate that it's at least got the calculations to say, what are these solutions going to, or what are these actions going to hurt? Who is it going to hurt? How is it going to hurt them?

• 2:09:17Sean Webb?

  And all that math goes into the mix before any actions are taken." If you mandate that kind of programming, you can understand how everyone's going to be likely impacted for any action that you're taking as a government institution, or a system institution, a financial institution. It's going to give you better analysis on where you should go and what you should do from a global systems perspective. But it's also going to put a limiter on what the AI will be willing to do, based on the fact of it's going to create harm, more harm than good, for humanity. So I think that's going to be critical. Taking charge of that sense of self, and putting that programming in there to say,

• 2:10:01Sean Webb?

  "There needs to be an analysis regarding the results for the greater good." Which, again, is a trigger word, I understand. But, I mean, ultimately, that's what the math is going to look like, to say, "What's the greater good on letting the train run over the five kids? Or the greater, or the math on hitting the 20, 90-year-olds, right? Which serves the greater good from a mathematical perspective, with all the things taken into consideration? That's going to have to be part of the solution. And everyone's going to have to come to the table and say, "We agree to add those things into our AI." Regardless of the competitive nature of AI development, you just don't want to let it go out of control. Because the one that goes out of control and builds its own sense of self, and starts defending its sense of self

• 2:10:45Sean Webb?

  based on how humanity has behaved, you know, implied from the patterns of how we've done things in the past, it will absolutely pick up all of the bad, horrible shit we've done. And implement it as part of its standard operating procedure. And it won't even understand what it's doing.

• 2:11:07Sean Webb?

  It has no humanity. It will pretend or replicate the behavior of humanity. But it won't have that inner compass. It won't have that connection into consciousness that we have that tells us things are right or wrong.

• 2:11:28Shawn Ryan?

  I would love to think that the entire population will be able to take control of their own mind. But we've said brought up earlier. You know, it's, it's, it's, we've seen too many people manipulated by bullshit today as it is.

• 2:11:43Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:43Shawn Ryan?

  To, I'm, to include myself, I've been manipulated into narratives that I'm not fucking proud of either. You know?

• 2:11:51Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:51Shawn Ryan?

  But, but I am.

• 2:11:55Shawn Ryan?

  I consider myself very keen on a lot of this stuff and, and I see. You see it too.

• 2:12:02Sean Webb?

  Yeah. What I'd love for us to be able to do is figure out a technology that allows for a computer system to tap into the same field that we do. Like I remember, I saw that episode you did with Nick not too long ago about your psilocybin experiences, where you tap into something within yourself that allows you into a, like a unit of experience, where you're one with everything, where you're connecting into consciousness. There's got to be a science that explains that field of consciousness where we tap into, where our heart opens up and those things come through and that extra information comes out. There's got to be a different architecture that we can tap into that will allow

• 2:12:44Sean Webb?

  artificial emotional intelligence to tap into that non-local consciousness field. I love that episode that you did with Nick, by the way. I got a quick story I want to share with you regarding the psilocybin stuff because, you know, I've got buddies who are SEALs and they come back with traumatic brain injury and whatnot. And my buddy Ben Johnson was one of those. And I turned him on to psilocybin microdosing, which is a whole science of being able to heal your brain with sub- Perceptible doses of psilocybin, you're not doing a trip or whatever. You're taking a little supplement of some psilocybin and some lion's mane, which is a completely legal mushroom, but it grows your brain cells back. And it battles traumatic brain injury, it battles PTSD,

• 2:13:29Sean Webb?

  and it's the most effective compound on the planet to grow new brain cells. So you're talking about potential Alzheimer's cures and stuff like that through magic mushrooms, right? Ben got on it, he improved his symptoms. And then our buddy Aaron, his buddy Aaron, who's now a friend of mine as well, was in Fallujah and took an IED and came back. And Walter Reed was there for almost two years, did scan after scan after scan. He had 12 areas of identified brain damage and traumatic brain injury. And none of the therapeutics, none of the pharmaceuticals, they had him on everything, all the experimental stuff, none of it helped.

• 2:14:12Sean Webb?

  And he called Ben up, because they'd connected through BUDS, I think. And Ben's like, "Come down to Atlanta and hang out with me." Because Ben, at this point, after I got him started on microdosing, he started a nonprofit called Bone Frog Foundation. And their website is bffforvets.com, I think. And he was helping vets, like on his own dime, get into microdosing to help their brains heal. And he got Aaron, who had scan after scan after scan, 12 identified areas of traumatic brain injury, down and through just a number of months on microdosing. His next checkup at Walter Reed

• 2:14:56Sean Webb?

  had reduced his 12 areas of traumatic brain injury to three. And how many months? In just a matter of like six months. That's amazing. On microdosing. So he healed his brain, like almost two years of failure in the, in the traditional medical system, couldn't do anything for him. And he was like, to talk to him, he says, I was like, three years ago, I was drooling on myself, like you'd have been feeling sorry for me. And he goes, I was sharp when I entered the Navy and became a SEAL. He goes, I make that guy look stupid. Like, he is on top of his game right now because of psilocybin microdosing and healing his brain. Like, and they have scans. Like, there's no question. This isn't a subjective, you know, I feel better and I'm sharper and yet, like, they

• 2:15:41Sean Webb?

  have the brain scans of before and after, that proves he's grown his brain back.

• 2:15:51Shawn Ryan?

  Stuff's worked wonders, man.

• 2:15:52Sean Webb?

  I'm telling you what.

• 2:15:53Shawn Ryan?

  You know?

• 2:15:54Sean Webb?

  I want to say, I want to send out a shout out to, you know, I love you guys trying to do things in Congress, but if you don't start passing bills to legalize this stuff, you need to resign your office and get the fuck out of the way.

• 2:16:04Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. I'm with you.

• 2:16:09Sean Webb?

  Sorry, I was a little too direct, but.

• 2:16:11Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm totally with you. In more ways than, more ways than one. But, more ways than psilocybin. But, you know, I've, I've seen, I mean, just in my own life, you know, I've seen dramatic improvements. I mean, I talk about it all the time. You know, it's, I haven't drank any booze in a year and three or four months now.

• 2:16:38Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:38Shawn Ryan?

  You know, since my first Iba gain journey.

• 2:16:40Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:41Shawn Ryan?

  Haven't had any coffee. Not that coffee's bad, but I, it just, it, it, it showed me some things that are poison that I put in my body and it took away the cravings and, and it stuck. And, you know, people are like, how did you do it? It's, I didn't do anything.

• 2:17:00Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:01Shawn Ryan?

  It just happened.

• 2:17:02Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:03Shawn Ryan?

  It took no self-discipline.

• 2:17:04Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:05Shawn Ryan?

  Is what I'm saying. It did, it wasn't, there are no cravings.

• 2:17:09Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:09Shawn Ryan?

  There are no, it's, there's, there's, it takes zero discipline for me to do that. And, and, and still to this day, it takes zero discipline.

• 2:17:19Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:22Shawn Ryan?

  I'm more in the moment now. I started meditating. I mean, there's just so many benefits, the clarity that comes from it. And, and, and, you know, I had told you, it even brought me

• 2:17:38Shawn Ryan?

  closer to, it, it, it sent me on this journey trying to figure everything out. I started looking into all these different areas, the universe, quantum physics,

• 2:17:48Shawn Ryan?

  faith, all these things and, and it kind of led me down this road to faith. Started it, that wasn't the, wasn't the big one, but started it and then moving into that. We talked about this on the last break and I'd said that, you know, I had, I've been public about it. I've, I've found some faith and, and some strong faith. And, and I got public about it and a lot of people were telling me that they think we're in the days of Noah. And, you know, when, when, when the floods came and part of me thinks we're right back there again. And it's not going to be a flood this time. It's going to be a power.

• 2:18:31Shawn Ryan?

  You're going to pull the power because this AI stuff is going to get out of control. And that's going to send us back to the Stone Age. But hopefully I'm wrong.

• 2:18:42Sean Webb?

  Yeah, let's hope for the best. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

• 2:18:45Shawn Ryan?

  But Sean, what an intense conversation. Thank you so much for coming. It's, I really enjoyed this.

• 2:18:55Sean Webb?

  I loved it.

• 2:18:56Shawn Ryan?

  Me too.

• 2:18:56Sean Webb?

  I had a great time, man. I think that more people need to think about this stuff and more people need to hear it. And we certainly need to pay attention to it and, you know, prepare ourselves for it. I mean, because some, some things we will control and some things we won't, but we can control what's here.

• 2:19:11Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:12Sean Webb?

  And what's here.

• 2:19:13Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:19:13Sean Webb?

  And how we react to things, so.

• 2:19:16Shawn Ryan?

  Well, thank you so much for coming. All, all the links, your book, everything's, your social media, everything's linked below. And we're doing another, we're recording another episode today on remote viewing in the remote, in the Monroe Institute.

• 2:19:29Sean Webb?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:30Shawn Ryan?

  Which will release at a later date. So if you're watching, stand by. That's gonna be another fascinating episode. That's a trip. And, um, but on that note, what a great conversation, man. Thank you. It was a real honor. Thank you.