#272 Elizabeth Phillips - Inside Camp Kanakuk: One of America’s Darkest Child Summer Camps

Elizabeth is the founder of No More Victims, an advocacy organization that passes child protection laws, and has served as the executive director of the Phillips Foundation since 2013. After her younger brother Trey died by suicide in 2019, following childhood sexual abuse at Kanakuk Kamps and a restrictive NDA. She is a SMU who has become a national voice for survivor justice. Elizabeth works on cases related to child sexual abuse, trafficking and negligence as a certified crime victim advocate. In 2025 she passed Trey’s Law unanimously in Texas and Missouri, banning NDAs that silence child victims of sexual abuse and trafficking It was named in honor of her late brother who was abused and whose perpetrator is in prison for three life terms. She also led the Campaign for Camp Safety with families who lost daughters at Camp Mystic, passing the Heaven’s 27 Camp Safety and Youth CAMPER Acts in Texas (2025) to establish baseline regulations for summer camps. A certified crime victim advocate, Elizabeth exposed decades of alleged abuse at Kanakuk (FactsAboutKanakuk.com), works globally on prevention, and is scaling innovative treatments for both survivors and offenders. Elizabeth is a wife and mother of three. Elizabeth's dedication to these reforms is now expanding nationally, and this interview is the first time Elizabeth has spoken publicly about this collective work and what’s ahead. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Join thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family—apply today in just minutes at https://meetfabric.com/SHAWN. Go to https://helixsleep.com/srs for 27% Off Sitewide Ready to upgrade your eyewear? Check them out at https://roka.com and use code SRS for 20% off sitewide. Elizabeth Phillips Links: IG - https://www.instagram.com/elizcphillips X - https://x.com/ElizCPhillips Phillips Foundation - https://phillipsfdtn.org No More Victims - https://www.nmvalliance.org Linktree - https://linktr.ee/elizcphillips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Shawn Ryan?

  Elizabeth Phillips, welcome to the show.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 0:38Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome. Been looking forward to this.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  Same.

• 0:42Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, yeah, so, interesting. I think it was a couple of months ago. I think maybe late October, sometime in November. Tim Tebow called me and told me about your situation, what you're doing, um, the laws that you're getting passed. And, and he told me about what happened with your brother, uh, who was sexually abused at Camp Canuckook in Missouri. And, um, Tim asked me if, if I would be interested in doing an interview with you. And, and so when he told me about the situation, um, immediately I was like, yep, I'm in. Let's do it. Uh, this is a topic that we've covered several times on this show,

• 1:27Shawn Ryan?

  and I think a lot of people are scared to talk about this subject. I don't know why. I don't know what's more important than saving our kids, but we're here for it. And, um, and, um, so, thank you for being here. This is gonna be a very heavy interview. And, um, and man, you know, I've just heard amazing things about Camp Canuckook. In fact, one of, uh, one of, one of, one of, one of our team members here today has been there. I think she said she's been going there since she was three years old. And, um,

• 2:00Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, bud.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Thanks for being willing to have the conversation and enter the darkness a little bit so we can expose it.

• 2:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  And God blessed him for the intro. God bless you for wanting to have the conversation.

• 2:12Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Grateful to anyone who will let me talk about this and who's, who cares.

• 2:18Shawn Ryan?

  You want to start with a prayer?

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21Shawn Ryan?

  Let's do it.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  All right. I work with a lot of survivors who are pursuing sobriety. So I'm going to read the serenity prayer if that's cool.

• 2:28Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect. It's my wife's favorite prayer.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 2:30Shawn Ryan?

  Fifteen years sober.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 2:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Okay, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardships as the pathway to peace. That I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy forever in the next. Amen.

• 2:54Shawn Ryan?

  Amen. Thank you. Thank you.

• 2:59Shawn Ryan?

  All right, I'm going to give you an introduction. Everybody starts with an introduction. Elizabeth Phillips, leading voice on reforming how the legal system treats survivors of child sexual abuse. Younger brother Trey died by suicide in 2019 at age 28 after a civil settlement with Camp Canuck that included a restrictive NDA. Founder of No More Victims, an advocacy organization that passes child protection laws. In 2025, you passed Trey's Law in Texas and in Missouri. Led the campaign for camp safety with a coalition of parents who lost their daughters on July 4th, 2025, at Camp Mystic to pass the Heavens 27 Camp Safety and Youth Camper Act.

• 3:45Shawn Ryan?

  You served as the Executive Director of the Phillips Foundation since 2013. Wife to Kevin, mother of three, and most importantly, you're a Christian. And this is the first time you've spoken publicly about this collective work and what's ahead. So once again, thank you.

• 4:04Shawn Ryan?

  All right, a couple of things to knock out here real quick. I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account. We've turned it into one hell of a community. And they're the reason that I get to sit here with you today. So one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. This is from Murphy.

• 4:22Shawn Ryan?

  You've turned unimaginable personal loss into meaningful systemic change. What was the turning point when advocacy shifted from something you were doing in your brother's memory to something that defined your life's work?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  It's a great question, Murphy. It kind of gives me chills because I think I'm in that moment right now, like realizing this is my life's work. Um, I just can't unsee what I've seen. And this part of my mission started with my brother's death. And, uh, I knew I had to turn that pain into something powerful, something purposeful. Uh, and then I started getting into it and realized there are all these survivors suffering in the shadows. So it's so much bigger than Trey, so much bigger than me now. Uh, I will fight for these now friends and, uh,

• 5:20Speaker 02

  we've had a lot of allies and advocates join the forces too, to make sure that we are protecting kids, uh, at a systems level. And that requires policy change. And I didn't start there, but that's where I've landed because once you start peeling back the layers, you realize we have to change laws to make any progress on this stuff.

• 5:40Shawn Ryan?

  Man, well, thank you for what you're doing. It's good to be in the fight.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  I always say it's a sacred honor. It's hard to say, oh, it's a pleasure. It's not a pleasure.

• 5:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  This is hard. And, uh, that's why, yeah, people don't want to talk about it. Um, so I'm going to talk about it. I'm not going to shut up about it. Uh, someone has to talk about it. And, uh,

• 6:06Speaker 02

  that's how we turn the tide.

• 6:08Shawn Ryan?

  Not very many people talk about it, but a whole lot of people listen.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 6:12Shawn Ryan?

  So I think that's, um, that's definitely a net positive.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:18Shawn Ryan?

  But, all right, one more thing. Man, this seems so inappropriate, but everybody gets a gift.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:25Shawn Ryan?

  There you go. Vigilance Elite gummy bears made in the USA in Michigan, legal in all 50 states, at least right now, but.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  My kids are going to love these.

• 6:35Shawn Ryan?

  I'll give you a couple more.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  Thank you. We're big gummy bear people.

• 6:38Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  I brought you some stuff.

• 6:41Shawn Ryan?

  Oh.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  My love language is gifts.

• 6:43Shawn Ryan?

  Me too.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  And, uh, confrontation and justice.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Um, but okay, a few things here.

• 6:51Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Um, I have to work with lobbyists who I call my boots on the ground. So they all get this when we pass a law. I got you this one monogram, Sean Ryan show.

• 7:02Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, that's awesome.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  It's technically a wine cooler, but uh, I put, my husband has a regenerative farm in East Texas. And they make these uh, like jerky sticks.

• 7:13Shawn Ryan?

  Cool.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  So that's what's in here.

• 7:15Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I know you don't drink and now I know Katie doesn't either.

• 7:18Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  But yeah, we're gonna give the boot to child predators today. You needed that.

• 7:23Shawn Ryan?

  I love this.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Then, I uh, to be honest, until Tim Tebow told me about this show, I'd never heard of you. And so.

• 7:33Shawn Ryan?

  That's refreshing.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Oh, and then because our phones listen to us, all of a sudden, like Sean Ryan shows my entire algorithm. And so I uh, I circled the wagons with a few of the, the survivors I work with, just to say, I'm going on this podcast. I'm talking about Canacuck, because any media exposure is gonna be out there and it could be triggering, right? I just want them to have a heads up. Um, and so two of the current plaintiffs, an active fraud litigation against Canacuck. Or they've been sued for fraud and then also all this abuse too. Uh, one of them was like, I love Sean Ryan. And uh, do you think you could take, he just started a tequila company. Do you think you could take him some of my tequila?

• 8:20Speaker 02

  And so we've got that here too. I love the branding. It's called Point Blank Tequila.

• 8:24Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  And um, he said his message, this is a reposado and a blanco. He said his message today that he wanted me to pass along is that survivors can heal and live full lives. And he's got a wife and kids, successful in real estate and uh, also started a side hustle, tequila business.

• 8:43Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  So.

• 8:44Shawn Ryan?

  I love that.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  This is from Andrew Summers, uh, fighting for justice, making tequila along the way.

• 8:52Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Super cool. Thank you.

• 8:58Shawn Ryan?

  Those will be in the studio too.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 9:01Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not gonna drink them, but somebody might.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Well, you seem to have quite the collection.

• 9:05Shawn Ryan?

  They'll look awesome in here.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Um, this is also swag from my husband's farm. Says, "Come and take it." This is their logo. Nice.

• 9:14Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Awesome. Thank you.

• 9:18Shawn Ryan?

  All right. So Elizabeth, if you, if you don't mind it in, just give us a brief, very brief summary of what we're about to dive into. And then, and then we'll get into the whole thing. I just want to give the audience a little snapshot of what they're in for here.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Okay. So, um, my, uh, family grew up in evangelical, uh, circles. And Canacook Camps was the place for, uh, summer camp in the 90s, 2000s. And so we all went there. Um, my brother Trey was unfortunately groomed and horribly sexually abused and what we now believe also trafficked, uh, by this mega ministry based out of southwest Missouri. He ended his life in 2019. And, uh, I've been on a journey ever since to find out what happened to my brother. And then that led down this path of, well, what's up with Canacook?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  And then what's up with summer camps in general? And so I've been like Aaron Brockovich-ing this whole situation of like, how do we get to the bottom of what's going on here? And then how do we prevent it in the future? Uh, speaking specifically about institutional child sexual abuse.

• 10:39Shawn Ryan?

  It's gonna get heavy. All right. Where did you grow up?

• 10:42Speaker 02

  We're gonna laugh, we're gonna cry, we're gonna feel all the things. Um, I know I'm gonna cry because talking about my brother is the hardest part of this for me. I, I can talk about statistics and stuff all day, but, uh, I'm here because I lost a sibling under really horrible circumstances that he didn't deserve.

• 11:00Shawn Ryan?

  I'm sorry.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  You've lost a lot of people too.

• 11:05Shawn Ryan?

  I have.

• 11:08Shawn Ryan?

  Where did you grow up?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  So, we grew up, I was born in Boston. Dad was in grad school up there. We moved to Tampa, Florida, and then to Dallas. And then Atlanta. And then back to Dallas. So, I changed schools eight times before college.

• 11:25Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Always the new kid. Kind of sink or swim, right?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  But, ended up, I mean, yeah. High school especially, had a great experience.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Ended up class president as the new kid.

• 11:41Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  I always say I peaked in high school.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  And that's the extent of my interest in politics. Was, I actually, I have to plan our 20-year reunion this year. Snuck up on me.

• 11:54Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  I ran my campaign on that. I would throw better class reunions than my opponent. So, I've got to deliver on my campaign pledge from 2006. Anyways.

• 12:05Shawn Ryan?

  When did you start going to Canuck?

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Oh, so, back then, I think it started age six, seven. Oh, no.

• 12:12Shawn Ryan?

  Did you go to?

• 12:13Speaker 02

  My kids are gonna go six, seven. Age six or seven. I went seven years myself.

• 12:18Shawn Ryan?

  You did?

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:20Shawn Ryan?

  What was, I mean, what is it? I'd never heard of it until, until I heard.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Well, that's what Tim told me, that you'd never heard of it. I, I looked you up when he mentioned your name, and it said you were from Missouri. And I was like, well, he's probably heard of Canuck. And Tim was like, no, he hadn't heard about it.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  So, it's the large.

• 12:36Shawn Ryan?

  Catholic.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:38Shawn Ryan?

  We don't do these things.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Well, they do offer a Catholic mass for the very small group of Catholics.

• 12:44Shawn Ryan?

  I guess we do do these things.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  That go to Canuck.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  But, this camp has been around 100 years. And it's been under the White family's leadership since the 1950s.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  In the 70s, that became Joe White and his wife, Debbie Joe White. And it's an evangelical sports camp. Ton of Christian celebrities have gone there, sent their kids there, performed there.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  It was the place in the 90s. You were considered kind of upper class. And, you, it's expensive. I mean, thousands of dollars to go there for a week. Attracted kids from all over the country. They claim all 50 states and several countries abroad to Tanne County, Missouri, southwest Missouri, every summer, driving about 25,000 families to that part of the state.

• 13:38Shawn Ryan?

  What town is it? Is this in Springfield?

• 13:40Speaker 02

  You fly into Springfield if you fly, but it's in the greater Branson area. Yeah. Have you ever been to Branson?

• 13:47Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  It's like a Christian Las Vegas.

• 13:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  It's so wild.

• 13:52Shawn Ryan?

  The only theme park I've ever been to that doesn't sell any booze.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Silver Dollar City. Yeah, I was like, what's that called? Silver Dollar City? Exactly. So like, yeah, the whole Canuck situation is like that show Ozark meets Righteous Gemstones, if you've seen those shows. And you've got Joe White, who's this big character. And people worshipped him next to God. And he was really high profile in the 90s. And he wrote, I mean, 14 at least, books, published by Focus on the Family. They've sent, Focus on the Family's taken all of that down since this has been exposed. But he was a mega star, stadium speaker.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Like, he would give the commencement at Liberty University's graduation or whatever. He would go to Promise Keepers events and be a featured speaker at those types of conferences.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  So.

• 14:55Shawn Ryan?

  The guy that runs the whole thing.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, still. He's.

• 14:57Shawn Ryan?

  Still.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  He's the CEO and his own board chair.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  We'll get into why that's problematic. But so 500,000 alumni, so 500,000 kids have gone through this camp. 50,000 staff, roughly. This is, you know, from what they've reported. And then they have, you know, they're not your mom and pop shop camp. They have year-round ministries. They have K Life, which is, it was in over 20 cities. I think that's dwindled down to maybe 17 since we started exposing stuff. Sorry, not sorry. But that's how they recruit campers year-round is these weekly Bible studies through K Life. And then you can go to camp.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  They also have, I mean, it's a whole trajectory from starting at camp at a young age. Then after camp, you can become a counselor. But between high school and college, they also offer something called Link Year, like this gap year program. And that's run by a guy named Adam Donnie under the Canuck Ministries umbrella. And Link Year also has Link Academy and Link Hoops. Link Hoops is a basketball academy. They're one of the top in the country now, actually. But people don't realize they're tied to Canuck. Then they have a segregated camp for urban youth. That's called Kids Across America. And

• 16:28Shawn Ryan?

  Urban youth?

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, they used to say inner-city children.

• 16:32Shawn Ryan?

  Oh.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Now it's

• 16:33Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Urban youth, basically like black kids.

• 16:37Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  And so they have Kids Across America for that. They have then the full-paying tuition camps that are majority white kids. They're next door to each other. They have historically had a camp in Colorado. That no longer exists.

• 17:00Shawn Ryan?

  Why not?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  That shut down. There was a divorce in the family. Joe White's daughter, she still is like the director of alumni engagement for the camp. But her ex-husband, they got divorced and I think it just kind of fizzled. But yeah, so massive present. They claim to have a presence in over 50 international locations.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  It's concerning, we'll get into why. Um, and Joe White brands himself as an author and a speaker. He has Dr. Joe White on some of his book covers. He's not a doctor.

• 17:36Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, boy, here we go.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  One of those. Um, and, uh.

• 17:42Shawn Ryan?

  This is, oh, we'll get into it.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll get into it. Uh, then, uh, yeah, through his books and his speaking tours, he's known for his crucifixion reenactments. Uh, yeah, so it's called Cross Talk. And at camp, uh, there'd be one night where there's like a bonfire, like a burning cross and, uh, yeah, bonfire cross. And you nail your sins to the cross and everyone's weeping. These were like seven year old kids in some of the camps. Um, and Joe White, when, uh, he's a double amputee now. He's physically unable to, uh, do this, but he used to like carry the cross and be Jesus. And then he would like use a chainsaw or an axe and like cut up a cross,

• 18:29Speaker 02

  build a cross and like present the gospel message. And, uh, it triggered an emotional reaction in a lot of kids. So they're like, yes, I'll accept Christ. Yes, I don't want to go to hell. Um, in my opinion, like kind of an unnecessary way to, uh, bring kids to Christianity. Um, but they do a lot of that kind of stuff. And, um, it started out as a boys camp in 1926 in the Ozarks, Canacuck camps for boys. And then they opened a girls camp in 1958, Canacomo. So the boys are called Cucks and the girls are called Comos.

• 19:10Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  And it's coed now. Um.

• 19:13Shawn Ryan?

  So now it's all Canacuck.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Now it's all Canacuck, but then they have different Canacuck camps. Um, so I mentioned kids across America for that socioeconomic level.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  And then there's K Country, which is where the, uh, super predator was, he was the director. I hate it when the media reports him as a counselor, like he was just a random counselor. No, he was the heir apparent to Joe White's throne.

• 19:38Shawn Ryan?

  He, uh, what?

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. He's in prison for three life terms, my brother's perpetrator, but he was going to be the next Joe White. He was the rainmaker. But that's his camp, K Country, and that's like elementary aged children. And then there's K West for like pre-teens, 12 to 14 year olds. There's K one where you can go for a month. And that's after you graduate from K Country. There's K seven, which used to just be one week and you like stayed in TPs. Uh, and then there's K two, which is for the teens. Um, and that's a month long thing. So there's a lot of different camps within the Canacuck Camps umbrella. And they call it Canacuck Ministries now, um, because they have all sorts of other programming, like I mentioned, like the basketball academy.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  They spun off a tech platform called Circuitry.

• 20:25Shawn Ryan?

  This is, this is a huge, th- this is an empire. This isn't some camp.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Thirty-five to forty-five million in annual revenue.

• 20:35Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:37Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. Wow.

• 20:43Shawn Ryan?

  The, and this started in nineteen, in the nineteen twenties?

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Nineteen twenty-six.

• 20:47Shawn Ryan?

  And this guy's still alive? He's still running it?

• 20:49Speaker 02

  So.

• 20:50Shawn Ryan?

  Or he took it over from somebody?

• 20:51Speaker 02

  He took it over from his dad in the seventies. Um, but it was started by a guy named C.L. Ford out of Dallas. And then he handed it off to this guy, Coach Bill Lance. And then that guy handed it over to, uh, Spike White, Joe White's dad. And then, uh, Joe White went to SMU. I went to SMU in Dallas too. Um, and he got a biology degree undergrad. So when he says doctor on his books, there's no PhD. There's like no seminary degree. Uh, it's like an honorary doctorate and like an honorary.

• 21:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Whatever.

• 21:28Shawn Ryan?

  One of those.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Um, but he, yeah, he rides on that pretty hard and he's branded himself as America's expert on teenagers, on teen purity.

• 21:37Shawn Ryan?

  Sounds like it.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  He's wr- written books called like Pure Excitement about teen purity and, um, multiple of them. Like very obsessed with like sex and purity and, um.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  I think for someone who's in his mid seventies, it's getting a little creepy.

• 21:54Shawn Ryan?

  Is he?

• 21:57Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, we're gonna get into all of it, but I mean, what is, what is, what is the?

• 22:05Shawn Ryan?

  What is the experience? I mean, what do, what do, what do kids that aren't abused, what did you come home and say about it? What is your experience there? I'm just curious.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 22:14Shawn Ryan?

  What do you do there?

• 22:15Speaker 02

  My whole family was groomed during my experience. So like, there are people who had great experiences. I look back on mine and I'm like, well, that was just, they were grooming our whole family. Um, but. I mean, there's so many fun things to do on the water. It's like prime real estate along these lakes in the Ozarks. Um, Lake Taney Como, and there's like part of it that's on a different lake. Uh, Table Rock Lake Adventures, they take kids spelunking. Um, there's, you can choose a sport, kind of like you choose a major in college, you choose a major. Like, I would do dance, or like, boys could choose if they wanted to do basketball or football.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Um, and they've churned out some great athletes, actually, and a lot of NFL players have sent their kids there because it's a good football program. Um, you have no access to watches or telephones and so if there is something that goes wrong, it's very hard to reach the outside world. And I think that's how abuse proliferated. Not that kids should have phones and at camp, I'm not saying that, but like, uh, it's pretty locked down and strict. Like, you're up at this time. You clean your cabin, you, um, a lot of devotionals and prayer time and talks, you know, preaching and, um, and then some of it's really fun. Um, you know, just rotating throughout the day of,

• 23:42Speaker 02

  you got tennis and then you got canoeing and then you're going to make a craft and then there's themed parties at night. Um, so that's when the boys and the girls interact is at these themed parties at night. And then they'll send you the list of what the themes are gonna be. So you can pack your trunk for camp with like fun costumes for the theme nights. Um, and so I actually, I hated it. I hated camp like the first few years. I was just super homesick. I liked it more as I got older. Um, but I had no idea what was going on with the, the abuse. Uh, it was, now in hindsight.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  It was interesting how I got Kickapoo Princess at K Country under Pete Newman's directorship. I always got the best dancer award. I wasn't the best dancer, like the things like that, just to show favoritism to our family. Whenever they had this thing called Winter Trail, I think they still do it, where they travel around in the offseason and go to different people's homes to fundraise and to recruit, like these marketing events. They would always want to stay at our house and we'd host things for them in Dallas. We'd let them borrow our car to go to a church, you know, out in one of the suburbs and do their presentation there. So we were definitely targeted and they targeted a lot of families that, you know,

• 25:02Speaker 02

  had influence or money and stuff. And so it's a little bit different than what you typically hear in these situations where it's children that are vulnerable because they've been in foster care or they have, they're in poverty or something. They were targeting like the elite evangelical crowd.

• 25:22Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:24Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you, why? Why do you think they were targeting that crowd? I'm just curious.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  No, because they're all about money. So like it started out as a nonprofit and then they conveniently restructured at certain key dates when-

• 25:38Shawn Ryan?

  If it's all about the money, why would you target the people with the money's kids?

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Because they wanted to make you feel VIP and special and then offer, you know, hunting trips or, you know, Joe White flies around on his private plane and-

• 25:55Shawn Ryan?

  Are you, I'm talking about, were you targeted, was your family targeted because they wanted to abuse your brother or for the money or for both?

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Oh, both. So like, I feel like for Joe White, we were targeted because we had a nice house and could host events for them and donate to the ministry. And then with Pete Newman, my brother's perpetrator, he was grooming, like, you know, giving us that special treatment at his camp. Also because, you know, they wanted our donations, but because he wanted Trey.

• 26:27Shawn Ryan?

  So these are unrelated? It's too, you're being targeted?

• 26:31Speaker 02

  I think, I think that is, you know, if you look at the whole case, it does seem kind of coordinated.

• 26:38Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 26:44Shawn Ryan?

  Jeez.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:48Shawn Ryan?

  How many kids will go to this at once?

• 26:52Speaker 02

  So their materials have cited numbers like 27,000 teenagers per summer.

• 26:58Shawn Ryan?

  27,000 teenagers per summer?

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Hmm, 25,000 families go to Branson every year for summer camp. Or, uh, I think more recently, I've seen numbers cited as like 10,000. So I don't know if that's like dwindling or they're just, were they exaggerating their numbers? But we're talk, it's not like, uh, again, not a typical mom and pop shop kind of camp. This is a mega ministry. It's the largest summer camp in the world.

• 27:27Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, we have, it's, it's put 500,000 people through, but that would only be 20 years worth of kids. I mean, I know it'd grow and we're talking about, this has been a hundred years.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but like they are repeat customers, right? So like.

• 27:41Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  People go through high school.

• 27:43Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  And then sometimes they'll do link year and then they'll go to college and be a counselor there. And then on the other side of college, you can do the Canacuck Institute, which they've called like a masters in ethics ironically. Uh, and so you can, the pipeline is, that's why it's jokingly called the Canacult. And from my research, I don't even joke about, it's like the Canacult, right? They keep you in, they suck you in and you stay there to the point where people feel financially held hostage.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  It's wild. And so that's the, that's the pipeline, you know, from early childhood through adulthood. There's always a place for you at Canacuck. And so then you go to the institute, then you can like work at Canacuck, uh, beyond that in the leadership role.

• 28:29Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Uh, so a lot of their staff, you know, they've grown up in this and, and stayed.

• 28:35Shawn Ryan?

  Hundred percent bought in.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Hundred percent bought in, even those that have kids that were victimized. It's crazy.

• 28:42Shawn Ryan?

  What? What?

• 28:44Speaker 02

  That's where it's like, you know, that's the cult piece of it, right? It's like, why would you stay at an institution where your own child was abused?

• 28:52Shawn Ryan?

  This shit sounds like the Jehovah's Witnesses.

• 28:56Shawn Ryan?

  This is fucking crazy.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  It's crazy. Yeah.

• 29:01Shawn Ryan?

  Where do we go from here?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  I mean, what do you want to know? I, I have five year, I mean, I can go through kind of like how we started this investigation out and where we are now and like.

• 29:12Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about what happened.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's go back. Okay, so, um.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  My husband and I, we were living in North Carolina in our twenties. I'd spent a lot of time.

• 29:24Shawn Ryan?

  Are you older or younger than your?

• 29:26Speaker 02

  I'm the oldest.

• 29:26Shawn Ryan?

  You're the oldest.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:27Shawn Ryan?

  How much older?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Three years.

• 29:29Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  And, um. I'd gone to SMU, graduated a year early, went over to Uganda to help start up a social enterprise and, uh, did that off and on for six years. Started having babies, commute got a little hard to Uganda with babies. And, um, we moved to North Carolina where my husband's from, uh, to run the family business on his side, which came with a newly endowed foundation, the Phillips Foundation, which I've been running since 2013. And, um, so we had day jobs, we were having kids and, um, my brother was really struggling. I remember being pregnant with my first, uh, son and my, I would get these calls from

• 30:12Speaker 02

  my mom or my dad and they'd be like, we just had to put Trey in treatment, he's not doing well. Um, and it was just a roller coaster, um, for a while, until, uh, he died.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  But I didn't really know what had happened to Trey. I remember when, when he was 21, Pete Newman was arrested, so I would have been 24. Pete Newman was arrested and ultimately sentenced to three life terms.

• 30:44Shawn Ryan?

  Arrested for what?

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Seven felony counts of child sexual abuse.

• 30:49Shawn Ryan?

  Seven felony counts of child sexual abuse at Camp Canicook.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I balk at, at Camp Canicook because these boys were abused all over the place.

• 30:59Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  So it wasn't just at camp, it was in their own homes sometimes, it was on mission trips to China where he would film them getting massages. So we're talking child sexual abuse material being created. That never got investigated. It was investigated by the Tannehill County Sheriff's Department. And they never looked into Pete Newman's devices for CCM. When we have witnesses who were on those trips saying, we saw Pete Newman filming these boys, getting massages and having the massage therapists activate their groin areas so he could film it. So they were abused all over the place. There were trips to Haiti, um, you know, in the name of Canacook International Mission Trips.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  Um, there were, I mean, Trinidad and Tobago, all over the world. And, um, so where was I with that? The, basically like my, I didn't really know the extent of what happened to my brother until, so he was not doing well. And then he decided to pursue civil litigation against Canacook. After the criminal case closed, he was named as a victim.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Uh, right when Pete Newman got arrested, Joe White flew down on his private plane to Dallas and asked for a meeting with my dad and Trey, man to man. Like, leave my mom out of it. He didn't want angry mom involved. And, uh, this was before the story really broke. And he was like, it's gonna come out that Pete Newman was abusing boys, but it was really just boys being boys, typical middle, middle school masturbation and experimentation, like minimized it, downplayed it with my brother Trey right there. Basically saying, here's the story and you're sticking to it. It wasn't a big deal.

• 32:43Shawn Ryan?

  Now, do you think this guy knew that your brother was abused?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, because he was on a list. Pete Newman provided a list of victims.

• 32:51Shawn Ryan?

  So this is after he was arrested?

• 32:53Speaker 02

  This was, uh, so the exact chronology is like March 2009. He, uh, confesses to Canacook leadership that he's been abusing boys.

• 33:05Shawn Ryan?

  What year?

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Hmm?

• 33:07Shawn Ryan?

  What year?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  2009. March 2009. And, uh, he'd been caught multiple times before skinny dipping, um, riding four wheelers nude with boys.

• 33:20Shawn Ryan?

  Go ahead.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  I know. Um, they called him in 1999, in 2001, in 2003, in 2006.

• 33:29Shawn Ryan?

  So Jeff White.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Joe White, yeah.

• 33:31Shawn Ryan?

  Joe White.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  We can call him Jeff.

• 33:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, whatever. Joe White has a, has the head guy of all these kids riding, riding around four wheelers naked with them.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it gets reported back to the camp. Like, they knew that stuff was happening. And in one of the depositions, as this.

• 33:50Shawn Ryan?

  So they just sweep the shit under the rug and they don't even tell them, "Don't do it again."

• 33:54Speaker 02

  They're like, "Oh, that's just boys being boys."

• 33:56Shawn Ryan?

  Boys being boys?

• 33:57Speaker 02

  And, uh, well, I can show you what they did to discipline him. I have the record here. Uh, but it basically.

• 34:06Shawn Ryan?

  See it.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll, we'll pull it out. Um, but real quick, so like the four wheeler thing, the naked basketball, the nude swimming, uh, Joe White was asked in a deposition, like, you don't think that is child sexual abuse? Like Pete Newman naked in front of these young boys? And Joe White's response was, "Well, it depends on how dark it was, if they could see his penis."

• 34:31Shawn Ryan?

  People still send their kids to this place?

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Exactly. Like thousands of people. Yeah.

• 34:40Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet that stops after this releases.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  I hope so, because kids are in danger there and, um, I think that's why Tim wanted us to talk. This is what they, a few things going on.

• 34:53Shawn Ryan?

  That guy does not care about anything more than saving kids.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  Right. And, uh, I'll talk more about what we're partnering on together, um, to protect kids. But this is one example of how they disciplined Pete Newman when he was, uh, in those situations with boys. They called it boys being boys. And he actually, uh, uh, there's a document where, here it is.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  They made him take a test.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  And then they made him sign a contract to spend more time with his wife, not spend so much time in the hot tub. A lot of the abuse would happen in the hot tubs. And then this is, they sent him to a counselor who gave him this questionnaire.

• 35:51Shawn Ryan?

  List three reasons why camp counselors sometimes get accused of inappropriate conduct with campers.

• 36:02Shawn Ryan?

  It's hard to read his handwriting.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's all Pete Newman's handwriting.

• 36:05Shawn Ryan?

  Conduct has been inappropriate, child has past abuse experiences that stimulate fear. They are careless and ministry strategy and uneducated. List three good ways to avoid accusations of improper sexual conduct toward a camper. One, avoid alone time with kids of opposite sex. Avoid sexual humor, inappropriate jokes. Never have alone sleepovers. List three things former President Clinton did wrong regarding his encounter with Monica Lewinsky. Cheated on his wife, lied about it, failed to set the example of what a leader should look like.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  And that was our, and then flip to the back, just turn the whole thing over.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  And on the, the very back page.

• 36:59Shawn Ryan?

  What is this?

• 37:00Speaker 02

  The next one on the very back page.

• 37:03Shawn Ryan?

  Pete Newman. Objective: To help Pete understand what healthy ministry is and to make sure Pete never places himself in a compromising position that his integrity would be in question. We want to ensure that Pete be involved in a lifetime of ministry. Overall boundaries for ministry: All high school ministry ends at 10:00 PM. All junior high ministry ends at 9:00 PM. Never show up at home unannounced. Never encourage students to disregard other responsibilities to be with you, like school, family, or a job. Failure in these areas will disqualify you from ministry privileges. All contact with kids will be done in public, never in private without parent permission. Exception: Picking

• 37:47Shawn Ryan?

  up the first child and dropping off the last child from an event. You must have parents' permission. Never spend the light.

• 37:56Shawn Ryan?

  Never spend the night alone with a child. Never be involved in sexual humor. Never suggest or be involved with any sexual or nude behavior. Never touch a child in a way that might be perceived as sexual in nature. Always put a stop to inappropriate behavior, i.e. sexual, physical nudity, vulgar speech, inappropriate humor. Failures in these will lead to instant dismissal and complete reporting of the incident. Boundaries on local extra camp ministry. Limited to three nights a week, club leadership, small group, one weekend a month, two small group, Bible studies, one lunch a week.

• 38:40Shawn Ryan?

  Summertime boundaries. Regular accountability with Will Cunningham. The amount of time can be determined later. These times might include physical workouts, biblical mentoring, detailed discussions of feelings about ministry, life, Katie, kids, personal worth, etc. No further visits from out-of-state kids, no sleepovers, i.e. events that required Pete to spend the night alone with one or more kids, period. Uh, noticeable change in the way Pete budgets his time. Regular time with Katie, that must be his wife.

• 39:21Shawn Ryan?

  Regular time spent with peers as opposed to a lopsided, inordinate amount of time spent with kids. What?

• 39:31Speaker 02

  This is how they disciplined him.

• 39:33Shawn Ryan?

  And they signed it. He signed it.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  And what's the date?

• 39:35Shawn Ryan?

  10/22/03.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  They knew, in 03. What normal person needs a document like that?

• 39:49Speaker 02

  And they also have these like playbooks, these staff playbooks.

• 39:53Shawn Ryan?

  This is...

• 39:55Speaker 02

  I know.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  That's their...

• 39:58Shawn Ryan?

  Anybody that's sending their kids to Camp Canuck, you need to read this.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:05Shawn Ryan?

  They're literally, they have to try to coax their counselors into not having a sleepover alone with your child.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  What normal person needs that rebuke? So, um, in March 2009, oh, so this, this year, oh, three, they obviously, he was escalating, right, in his behavior? And so they, uh, they restructured. And Canuck had been a for-profit, they restructured to become a nonprofit, right? They're realizing they have liability. They hire this guy named Rick Brashler as the director of, uh, risk, uh, risk management. He's a former Pizza Hut manager and, uh, insurance broker to churches.

• 40:52Shawn Ryan?

  I thought you were gonna say pizza gate.

• 40:56Shawn Ryan?

  Shit my pants.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Uh, so he comes over from Pizza Hut and he's suddenly the director of risk management. Uh, that's in oh, three. And, um, then they catch Pete Newman again in oh, six. Somewhere between oh, three and oh, six, his supervisor, Will Cunningham...

• 41:17Shawn Ryan?

  What is it with pizza and little kids? What's the thing?

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Uh, can you have someone on to answer that for us? So Rick is, he has no qualifications in child protection or anything. And he's supposed to, uh, you know, sharpen up the protocols for these bad act... That they are keeping on staff and not just that, Pete Newman got promoted after that. So not only did they not report him to the authorities properly or fire him, they promoted him to director of Cake Country.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  He was assistant director, then director of K Country. Will Cunningham, who was his supervisor, recommended his termination. And then he got squeezed out slowly in Leppkanakuk. He's been very helpful to survivors in their cases now because he's like, I told them to fire the guy. Red flags all over the place. More than red flags that Joe White knew about. So then there's this, there are few theories around how he ended up turning himself in in March 2009. But one thing I've heard, and I know this guy in Dallas, I've heard the story directly from him. His dad was a sitting US congressman and he had sponsored a kid to go with Pete to some retreat in Alabama.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  And the kid called back, said, he tried to assault me. So that guy calls Pete and he says, I'm gonna have the FBI on your doorstep tomorrow morning. Say goodbye to your wife, Katie, and your kid. They had a daughter. My family threw their baby shower in Dallas.

• 42:54Shawn Ryan?

  Oh.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  So the person I'm-

• 43:00Shawn Ryan?

  Your family threw his baby shower?

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was considered an honor.

• 43:07Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. And so anyways, Pete turns himself into the Tannehill County Sheriff's Department. It should have been FBI from the beginning. And it wasn't. It was a Tannehill County Sheriff's Department investigation. It was the local victims that put him away. The prosecutor at the time, Jeff Merrill, he said there were 55-ish victims known at the time of sentencing, but he estimated a true victim count in the hundreds on Pete Newman alone. Pete's now one of over 75 perpetrators associated with Kanakuk we know of now. Through my investigation, we'll go into that, but-

• 43:49Shawn Ryan?

  Could you say that again?

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Pete's one of over 75 perpetrators affiliated with Kanakuk that we've uncovered to date.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  With allegations dating back from 1958 to very recently. So, um, that's Pete. Fifty-five victims known at time of sentencing. Prosecutor estimating true victim count in the hundreds. Uh, other experts would say thousands, just because he was, he had unfettered access to children year-round for 14 years. Add that to his, you know, modus operandi of like how he would abuse. Um, so yeah, hundreds, thousands of victims, Pete Newman alone. And then, um.

• 44:32Shawn Ryan?

  Hundreds to thousands of victims for Pete Newman alone.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:37Shawn Ryan?

  Alone.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, Canuck's crisis PR strategy on all that was,

• 44:45Speaker 02

  uh, well, we can't let one bad apple take down this ministry. We've saved so many souls.

• 44:50Shawn Ryan?

  Tim had said that he was saying something in court on the stand too, I believe. I don't know if it was Pete Newman because I wasn't familiar with any of the names.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Oh, he said something in his, uh, remarks in court that, "Don't let what I did take down this whole ministry." Canuck's good for kids. It's the happiest place on earth, blah, blah, blah. He, you know, did his whole spiel. Um, Canuck, so he goes to prison for three-

• 45:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, White probably had him say that, huh?

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, who knows? So then, he goes to prison at, uh, Jefferson City Correctional Center. The address for that is 8,000 No More Victims Lane. That's why I call this, I call it Operation Millstone because of a verse in the Bible that says, "If you are a child, you're better off with a millstone around your neck thrown into the bottom of the sea." So I call everything I'm working on related to this, Operation Millstone.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Um, but there's, um, what was I gonna say? There's a, oh, so their crisis PR strategy was there's one, this was one bad apple. We can't let him destroy this entire ministry. Uh, so first time this has ever happened, we are so shocked.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  We now know of perpetrators, like going back to the very first year they opened the girls camp. Um, and then third, we're now the safest camp in America because we have learned the hard way how this could happen. And they have started this Canuck Child Protection Plan that's now been spewed to over 600 youth-serving organizations across the country. It was accredited by the Bo Biden Foundation. And, uh, then they tried to get some other, like, uh, accreditations, uh, on their website to look legit after they've had this massive pedophile scandal. They put the Canuck Child Protection Plan in place and, uh, and start going around the

• 46:41Speaker 02

  country talking about how they know how to handle, uh, camp safety now because they just had this horrible situation and they're now going to be the safest camp in America through this Canuck Child Protection Plan. I brought a PowerPoint that they've used on that, uh, that in my opinion and experts' opinions, uh, would make better pedophiles, not protect kids. Um, can I show you that?

• 47:07Shawn Ryan?

  Absolutely.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  You want to do it now?

• 47:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  So this is the, um...

• 47:12Shawn Ryan?

  We'll put it up on screen as we talk about it.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  There's so much to talk about. Okay, so this is a, a PowerPoint that the former Pizza Hut manager, Rick Brashler, with no expertise in child protection, put together. And I have a whole audit on it by actual subject matter experts, but this is the slide deck he uses to go to other camps. It's page 24, I have in my head, page 24, 25. Where, have you heard of Nambla? Have you heard of this?

• 47:55Shawn Ryan?

  Nambla?

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:57Shawn Ryan?

  No, I've not heard of that.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  I just, this is gonna, you're gonna get really pissed by this. Sorry, these pages aren't numbered.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Oh, here we go.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  "How to Practice Child Love."

• 48:09Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, great.

• 48:12Shawn Ryan?

  You're gonna make me read this one, huh?

• 48:15Speaker 02

  "And then 170-page Child Molestation Instruction Manual, nambla.org, the online voice of the North American Man-Boy Love Association." So, if you're a pedophile in his audience, he's showing you where to go to become a better pedophile.

• 48:30Shawn Ryan?

  Who, okay, who wrote this? This is, we're gonna put this up on screen here. I'll read it.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  This is Rick Rush.

• 48:38Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't write it. "How to Practice Child Love by Richard Creach. Before you begin on the education, important info: theory before practice, child sexuality, taboos and shame, risks involved, when to start, what age, where do I find a child?" This is the, this is the curriculum. Introduction: Having own children or family equal access. Single parents and moms with kids, babysitting, daycare and schools, children out in the wide, in the, in the wide open world. Other creative methods and some final words. The four important advantages: survey, approach, and create a relationship. The practical steps: the introduction.

• 49:24Shawn Ryan?

  Step one: the first physical contact. Step two: the second physical contact. Step three: exploring the child's genital. Step four: exploring the adult's genital.

• 49:41Shawn Ryan?

  Step five: making love for the first time. Richard Creach, 45, pled guilty May 24, 2013. Creach used a peer-to-peer file-sharing program to collect and share child pornography videos, including numerous videos of children between ages five and 12 years old, being raped and sexually abused. Creach's child pornography collection included more than 1,100 images and 1,300 videos of children being sexually exploited.

• 50:23Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. 170-page child molestation instruction manual surfaces. This is in Orange County. Orange County sheriff deputies say that a 170-page manual is circling around central Florida. It shows people, step by step, how to molest children.

• 50:44Shawn Ryan?

  Nambla.org. Nambla's goal is to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships.

• 50:56Shawn Ryan?

  What the fuck is this?

• 51:00Speaker 02

  So that's Rick Braschler's Canacook Child Protection Plan that he says they learned of through this Pete Newman situation. So it tells you a lot about what Pete Newman was doing. This is also the playbook. You know how people say it's like they're all using the same playbook? There are playbooks that exist. Some on the dark web, some are, you know, more...

• 51:23Shawn Ryan?

  Some are Camp Canacook.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Some are Camp Canacook's creation. And, uh, yeah. So that's been spewed to 600 youth-serving organizations across the country, according to Rick Braschler. He's still there as the Director of Risk Management.

• 51:38Shawn Ryan?

  He's still here.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. He's still running the Child Protection Plan for Canacook. The other thing I was gonna mention is that, uh... So Pete went away in 2010 for three life terms. And then they implement this Canacook Child Protection Plan in 2010. And then in 2011, they had another arrest by a pedophile named Lee Bradbury, who was a counselor. I think he had five counts of sodomizing a child. And, uh, he just got out of prison.

• 52:09Shawn Ryan?

  He's out.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, he jumped the registry. We got him put back on.

• 52:13Shawn Ryan?

  What's his name?

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Lee Bradbury.

• 52:14Shawn Ryan?

  Where's he live?

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Pelham, Alabama.

• 52:17Shawn Ryan?

  Pelham, Alabama.

• 52:20Shawn Ryan?

  Lee Bradford.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Bradbury.

• 52:22Shawn Ryan?

  Bradbury.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, we have all-

• 52:25Shawn Ryan?

  Lee Bradbury.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, I helped set up a website called factsaboutcanacuck.com once I connected with other Survivor families. And there's a page on Facts About Canacuck that's known abusers. And you can see all their mug shots. We just added another one yesterday. It's like never ending.

• 52:43Shawn Ryan?

  How many are there?

• 52:44Speaker 02

  So there are, uh-

• 52:45Shawn Ryan?

  How many have you found?

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Over seventy-five.

• 52:48Shawn Ryan?

  Over seventy-five sexual abusers?

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Affiliated with Canacuck Ministries and Joe White. But there's thirteen that have publicly, uh, been alleged. And twelve of those have convictions. There's a thirteenth who, because of statute of limitations, is just out there living his best life. But he was publicly alleged in USA Today, an article that, uh, we helped with, so, um, thirteen on our-

• 53:12Shawn Ryan?

  What's his name?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Um, that's Chuck Price.

• 53:15Shawn Ryan?

  Chuck Price? Where's he live?

• 53:17Speaker 02

  St. Louis.

• 53:18Shawn Ryan?

  St. Louis, Missouri.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  That's a whole story. Uh, yeah, I need to tell you that story. Cause you lived in St. Louis. Right?

• 53:27Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. His victim lives in Utah. There's multiple of them. Um, but all that to say, this Canacuck Child Protection Plan that was supposed to be their saving grace, it failed immediately when Lee Bradbury was arrested in 2011.

• 53:43Shawn Ryan?

  Jeez.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  So, um, I don't, I mean, they've gotten away with this for so long. And then, Trey suicides. Um, this is after years of, I mean, so Pete Newman went away when he was twenty-three, when Trey was twenty-three. So Pete Newman was arrested at age twenty-one, and when Trey was twenty-one. And then, under the current civil statute of limitations in Texas, if you were abused as a child between 1995 and 2015, you only have until the age of twenty-three to sue, um, liable institutions or perpetrator. So-

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Trey was forced to file a civil lawsuit because he was not doing well and he needed therapy. And that ended with a restrictive NDA, a settlement agreement that had a restrictive NDA. So he couldn't talk about what happened to him. He couldn't talk about Keanu Cox's role in all of this. And he was one of the John Does that filed a civil case pretty soon after Pete went to prison. And I didn't really understand all that. All I remember is at one point, I was going to be deposed and other family members were going to be deposed. I was pregnant with my second kid at that point. And Trey wanted to spare me from going through depositions pregnant because it was so hard on him. Like the deposit, Keanu Cox's lawyers are so brutal.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  They would gaslight these victims, saying things like, are you sure you're not just depressed and struggling because your parents have a bad marriage? Are you sure it just wasn't an early homosexual experience and you're gay? They're like, no, pretty sure it was the child rape. So I'm not doing great. They would try to pin it on anything but Keanu Cox's negligence and Pete Newman as the reason for the civil litigation. So then they put him under an NDA. And I just saw that NDA for the first time after we passed Trey's law in Texas in September.

• 55:43Shawn Ryan?

  When? Oh, man, dude.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  2025. And now I know why they were so scared.

• 55:49Shawn Ryan?

  They NDA'd him after the abuse?

• 55:50Speaker 02

  All of these victims, yeah. Except one family refused to sign the NDA. Keanu Cox came after them, federally sanctioned them because they refused to sign the NDA.

• 56:00Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean federally sanctioned? What does that even mean?

• 56:03Speaker 02

  That means that their case was filed in Texas. Keanu Cox is in Missouri, right? So at that point, like even though the case was filed in Texas, it got pulled to a different jurisdiction. And the case was federal. So then the judge ruled in that court that the case was closed, the settlement agreement had been signed, they can't come back for more now and add an NDA in there. But they had every intent of forcing that family to sign an NDA. And that family did not. They're the Alarcons. It's been public since then. Ashton Alarcon, he calls me sis. We're really close. He serves our country. He's in Japan right now.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Maisy and kid, now man, just got married.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  And he told his dad, "I want to be able to tell my story one day."

• 56:59Speaker 02

  And so they had to fight, even their own lawyer. Their own lawyer was pushing this NDA on them. It's standard practice. And we can get into all that because that's like how I uh...

• 57:09Shawn Ryan?

  Their own lawyer?

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's very common.

• 57:11Shawn Ryan?

  The family's attorney was, wanted them to sign a fucking NDA?

• 57:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, they all do.

• 57:16Shawn Ryan?

  Saying that they'll never talk about how their kid was fucking sexually molested and raped?

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and what's even sicker is that um...

• 57:23Shawn Ryan?

  By a fucking church?

• 57:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, and to that point...

• 57:27Shawn Ryan?

  Who the fuck is that attorney?

• 57:28Speaker 02

  It's all of them.

• 57:30Shawn Ryan?

  All of them?

• 57:31Speaker 02

  This is, this is standard practice in personal injury law.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  Now, I...

• 57:35Shawn Ryan?

  Who the fuck are these people? These are fucking kids!

• 57:38Speaker 02

  These are kids. Kids should never be put under a contract. They can't consent to contracts as minors.

• 57:43Shawn Ryan?

  So, hold on. Just let me replay this. So this fucker, Pete Newman, gets arrested.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:50Shawn Ryan?

  Then more of these people start falling. Then they reach out to all the victims and they fucking try to make it sound like it was some other event that fucked them up in the head.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:00Shawn Ryan?

  And then they fucking convince them to sign an NDA saying that they'll never talk about how Pete Newman or anybody else at Camp Canuck was playing with their fucking penis or their vagina, or shoving shit up their asshole, or fucking dancing with them naked, or playing basketball with them naked, or fucking putting them in Chinese massage parlors to give them an erection so they can fucking film it. They, they, and, and the defense attorney is having them, having their fucking client sign this shit?

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Thanks for saying that, so I didn't have to.

• 58:35Shawn Ryan?

  What the fuck?

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:38Shawn Ryan?

  In the, where's the fucking FBI?

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Where's the FBI?

• 58:41Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, the FBI is doing what they always do.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:44Shawn Ryan?

  Absa-fucking-lutely-nothing.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  We can circle back to that. They entered the chat a couple of years back.

• 58:49Shawn Ryan?

  Of course, they, uh, they're always fucking late to the party.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, like, uh, 12 years too late, but, um, so yeah, that's exactly right. So I've spent a lot of time now educating plaintiffs' attorneys on why they shouldn't silence their own clients. But that's how widely accepted, this is considered a best practice. You settle, you sign an NDA, and everyone moves on. Well, guess who doesn't move on? The kid who cannot heal because they have been legally silenced by a Christian-

• 59:19Shawn Ryan?

  Kid who's, who's having dreams every night of Pete fucking Newman jacking them off.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  Or Lee Bradbury, or Corby Dale Grimes, or Chuck Price, or, uh, Paul Green, or Paul Kerr, or, I mean, the list goes on and on. There's so, some of these guys were abused twice, once by Pete Newman and then again by another one.

• 59:44Shawn Ryan?

  And this shit is legal? This shit is legal? You, you can... How the fuck can a kid sign a document anyways? It's this, what?

• 59:55Speaker 02

  So, there's an active fraud lawsuit with the plaintiff who's a kid in Hendersonville, Tennessee, just down the road here. And his parent, he was 17 when he settled. His parents, as the guardians, signed the settlement agreement. They own an A's hardware store, like, they're not sophisticated on legal nuance, right? So these NDAs, they get snuck in at the midnight hour. It's under the guise of a confidentiality clause. And you're thinking, "Well, I want this to be confidential because we don't want to talk about it." And the kid doesn't really know what he's signing. He's not even signing it, it's his parents. So this victim was told he would have to sue his parents to get out of the NDA.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  And so.

• 1:00:36Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, what, what, what, never mind. I mean, I want to say like, what judge, what attorney is going to prosecute a fucking human being for talking about how they were sexually molested and fucking raped as a child? But.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  Well, Canuck.

• 1:00:55Shawn Ryan?

  This is the world we live in. There's lots of attorneys who would love to do that.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  I started talking about it and I.

• 1:01:00Shawn Ryan?

  There's people that are standing up and trying to call these people minor, what it, minor.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  Minor attractive persons.

• 1:01:05Shawn Ryan?

  Minor attractive persons.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Don't get me started.

• 1:01:08Shawn Ryan?

  Minor attractive persons. Well, let's not fuck with them. They're a protected class. They are. It's not funny. It's fucking real.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  I, I laugh because it's so ridiculous. I, it's just like, yeah. So.

• 1:01:22Shawn Ryan?

  You know what's fucking crazy? How many people are in DC? How many Americans are there? Three hundred and fucking forty million Americans. There's like two hundred people running the fucking show.

• 1:01:37Shawn Ryan?

  Do the math.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  And where are their priorities?

• 1:01:41Shawn Ryan?

  We fucking know where their priorities are. Seen any Epstein files yet?

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:01:46Shawn Ryan?

  Me neither.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  I connected with Nick Bryant a while back on, I was trying to figure out if the Canuck. Yeah, if the Canuck network connected to what he'd uncovered. And, um, he wanted to have me on his podcast. At that point, I was too, uh, scared. I was getting cringe shod by Canuck. They would send me cease and desist letters, demand letters.

• 1:02:08Shawn Ryan?

  Getting what?

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Cringe shod.

• 1:02:10Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, um, referenced in my situation. Yeah.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Cease and desist letters. It didn't work on me either. Uh, I took him to the press and, uh, yeah, I have it here too. Um, I framed it.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  This is what Canacuck's lawyer sent me first. I'm not under an NDA. My brother, my dead brother is under an NDA.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  And this is what, uh, so I set up No More Victims after getting into this Operation Millstone. And, um, No More Victims, uh, started putting together a website called Facts About Canacuck. And we got the deposition tapes from the John Doe one case because I was the only one not under NDA. And we put all this information up on factsaboutcanacuck.com. We have receipts on all of it. And then Canacuck immediately, they don't like it. They send this letter.

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  And it's laughable because first of all, they think I'm a law firm. And they threatened to disbar me in the state of Pennsylvania for this website that's soliciting clients.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  Like, nope.

• 1:03:27Shawn Ryan?

  Defamation.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Just trying to get the truth out to the public. So kids, stop getting raped on your watch.

• 1:03:36Shawn Ryan?

  Where's the, where do I read?

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Oh, if you want to look at like their 12 points of what they want.

• 1:03:42Shawn Ryan?

  Where's the threat?

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  The.

• 1:03:44Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Behind that title page there, it's like 12 things they want taken off the website.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  And one of them is that you called Joe White's father Skip White. His name is Spike White. And my attorneys are like, well, that's not defamation. That's called a typo. They also had a correction in there. Corby Dale Grimes isn't in prison in Florida. He's in prison in Texas. And we're like, thanks for that. We were trying to run down where he was in prison. Like just stupid things that they wanted corrected. So I sent this to the media and they published it. And, um,

• 1:04:26Shawn Ryan?

  Do you mind if we scan this and put it up?

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  All yours.

• 1:04:28Shawn Ryan?

  Have everybody download it.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  It's public.

• 1:04:30Shawn Ryan?

  This is, uh, Camp Canacook trying to silence Elizabeth so that, um, the word doesn't get out that they're a bunch of pedos.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:40Shawn Ryan?

  Sexually abusing.

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  So that was the first one.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Um, there have been others, other threats and things since, but, um, I didn't have.

• 1:04:49Shawn Ryan?

  Threats.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Oh, um, so.

• 1:04:53Shawn Ryan?

  Threats to you?

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, let me know whoever's behind facts about Canacook. I'll take them out.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Um, being sent to the facts about Canacook email address where Canacook's posing as victims to try, like, you know, fishing to see what we'll react to or if we'll put something up on our website that's not vetted. I have great PIs and lawyers who vet these things before we put them up anywhere. Um, we, yeah, then we got, uh, I got a call from a lobbyist in DC that Canacook tried to hire his firm to, uh, it was like three or four things they wanted, uh, to pop up a dark money C4 and oppose Elizabeth Phillips' bills in Texas and Missouri.

• 1:05:38Shawn Ryan?

  Gotta go to DC to get that stuff done, don't you?

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then.

• 1:05:43Shawn Ryan?

  Funny how it's real.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  It's.

• 1:05:45Shawn Ryan?

  It's fucking real.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Well, and I'm laughing because this totally backfired on them because that DC lobbyist actually cares about kids. And he immediately got in touch with me and was like, they're trying to character suspect you oppose your campaigns. Well, and I was like, well, thanks. I'll let my security team know because that was not, so then there's another lobbyist they went after, got right back to me again. And all these guys are like, we don't want to work with them. We want to work with you. I'm like, cool, come on, join the, you know, get out of, get out of there. Come join the good side.

• 1:06:15Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  Um, and I work with, uh, different lobbyists in different jurisdictions and they do this because they're passionate about it. A lot of them pro bono do this and they reject business from, uh, pedophile rings.

• 1:06:29Shawn Ryan?

  That's the first positive thing you've said on interview.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  I, I do have some hope. I do, yeah. I hope to bring a little bit of hope to this conversation as we get through it all, but.

• 1:06:39Shawn Ryan?

  Could we take a little break? I'm so pissed off right now. I'm shaking.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Let's go cool off.

• 1:06:44Shawn Ryan?

  Let's take a quick five minutes.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  Sounds good.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:07:19Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:08:01Shawn Ryan?

  Plus, exclusive offers from our partners you won't find anywhere else. So subscribe to the Vigilance Elite newsletter right now.

• 1:08:16Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Elizabeth, we're back from the break. Talked about a whole bunch of stuff on the break, but I'm really interested, you know, when you guys, you informed the FBI that you're coming on the show and you asked them, "Hey, is there anything you don't want us to talk about because we don't want to interfere in your investigations with Cana Cook?" And what was their reply?

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  So let's go back to 2023 when I first talked to them. I think that's important context. So as I said earlier, the FBI should have been involved in this from the beginning. And when I took this story to the media, the head of the Law Center for the National Center on Sexual Exploitation said the FBI should be so on top of this, it's just screaming FBI. And even that guy I mentioned, who told Pete Newman, I'll have the FBI on your doorstep in the morning, and instead he turned himself into the Tanney County Sheriff's Department. Everyone's like FBI, this is interstate trafficking of children. And so we get to a point where we have so much information from the private investigation I'm leading with my colleagues.

• 1:09:24Speaker 02

  We start sending information to appropriate law enforcement agencies. We start with the IRS. So Canuck got IRS church status in 2015. I mentioned they restructured in 2003, and then they were a for-profit, then they became a nonprofit.

• 1:09:42Shawn Ryan?

  You had mentioned you'd-

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  And that's a way to shield assets.

• 1:09:45Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  And then to, there's a whole lot of reasons that they would do that with what we now know they knew.

• 1:09:55Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. I mean, Nathan Affleck kind of broke down why you would want to go nonprofit-

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:02Shawn Ryan?

  -during his interview about the religion business.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, and thanks to your producer, Jeremy, I've been in touch with those guys, and we're gonna do some work together.

• 1:10:10Shawn Ryan?

  I can't wait to see what you guys do.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  It's gonna be, yeah, it's gonna piss off a lot of pedophiles, I'm excited about it. So the IRS is involved in 2023. They start their investigation that spring, a couple of months into that, they're like, it's time to bring in the FBI. I'm like, oh, good, they're on it. And I'd just gotten up to where my dad has a beach house, and they said, can you be in Springfield, Missouri on Monday? I was like, I cannot, I'm not getting off this island, I just got on this island, but I'll do a Zoom call. And so I did a Zoom call with the lead criminal investigator for the IRS in that central region, and he brought in the SAC agent and another agent who like leads the task force on child exploitation in somewhere in Missouri. They're blacked out because they're all located somewhere. They can't show where they are.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  And, uh, but I can see the IRS agent and he's fired up. Like he sees this for what it is. And, uh, I go through a presentation. I have it right here. This is what I presented to law enforcement.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  I had like two all-nighters to pull this together because I was not in town. It's, uh, I had, my right-hand woman was on maternity leave and her deputy was helping me scramble to put something together. We, uh, organized all this information we'd been digging up for years at this point, like three years worth of tips and just, uh, pulling numbers where we could, claims Canacook had made. And, um, so I went through this deck and I get through the page about their money and private enurement. And, uh, the IRS agent goes, oh, where'd you get these numbers? And I was like, oh, we just pulled this from their 990 forms. So 990 forms are what you send to the IRS if you're a nonprofit.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  You don't have to do 990 forms if you're a church. Uh, so their, their transparency has gotten less and less as since 2015 when they became a church. But we were able to dig up what we could through the 990s. And we were able to trace 380 million in gross revenue to this camp in southwest Missouri.

• 1:12:12Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  And then we calculated that net that out 25% was leaving the country and going to failed states like Haiti.

• 1:12:19Shawn Ryan?

  25% was leaving the country?

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. So you've got Canacook soliciting donations. They have revenue from their summer camps, right? I mentioned it's very expensive to go there. Thousands of dollars a week to go to Canacook. So they have earned revenue, but then they also fundraise for the poor children in Haiti. And Joe White does his whole thing about this and how.

• 1:12:39Shawn Ryan?

  How can they charge for the camp if it's a nonprofit?

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  Oh, it's not unusual. It's a faith-based camp and they charge per term, um, for their service. So that's not unusual. Um, there are a lot of for-profit camps too. Like Camp Mystic, which we'll talk about in a little bit, but, um, Canacook was a for-profit camp. Then they became a nonprofit camp. Then they became a church nonprofit, which is a different tax status. Um, so anyways, the IRS is looking into this. They're like,

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  You know, this is, the, the numbers in their bank accounts, that when they said, "Where'd you get these numbers?" I said, "994," they go, "Well, you should see their bank accounts." Which tells me it's a lot more than what I know. And, uh, and then I showed them the money trip. Follow the money, right? Follow the money to Haiti. They were funneling money to, and this is, I'm telling the FBI this, I'm, you know, the IRS has brought them in. It's like, not like, out of the blue, I'm cold calling the FBI on this. There's an active investigation, right? And so, they bring these guys in, and I'm like, "Yeah, so we have, at this point, here's a chart of all their entities." I mean, there's so many of them.

• 1:13:57Shawn Ryan?

  You broke down the entire organization?

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Broke down the entire organization. We, oh, we found that the white family earned 11.7 million in revenue from Canacut Ministries personally, between 2006 to 2020. 9.1 million of that is rental income to the whites for-profit holding companies that they don't pay taxes on. They got the county to alleviate their taxes, even though they're for-profit. Um, 2.6 million in compensation to Joe and Debbie Joe White, between 2006 and 2020. Um, so, you know, I started with the numbers, because this is an IRS angle, and from my experience, working with, uh, the anti-trafficking nonprofit I mentioned earlier, um, she got rescued,

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  she and her other friend got rescued, because the IRS got their pimp on, um, money laundering and tax evasion, not on sex trafficking. So that's oftentimes how these trafficking rings get busted up. It's because of the follow the money, not the crime itself. So that's how I knew to like, go this angle, right? Um, here it is, when Rick Brashler becomes the Director of Risk Management in 2003, they had a 4,000% increase in their insurance coverage. They knew what was coming. Um, this is a whole timeline of, okay, so known abusers at this time, one, two, this is where it becomes FBI, is like, the known abuser list I mentioned earlier.

• 1:15:28Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  At that time, we knew of 11 convicted.

• 1:15:32Shawn Ryan?

  11 convicted.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, and these are all their charges.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  So I'm showing this to the FBI.

• 1:15:43Shawn Ryan?

  Have you been in touch with the insurance company?

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  So they were actually at one point added as to the complaint in these fraud cases for civil conspiracy. The insurance company colluded with Canacuck to cover this up. So they've been named in these lawsuits.

• 1:16:01Shawn Ryan?

  Shit, man, everybody's in on this.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, we need to deep dive on insurance because that's really the root of the this is we live in a capitalist society. I don't know of a better one, right? Like, it's not communism, it's not socialism. But this is the dark side of capitalism, and I'll get into that if you want. But this because insurance is involved and incentives are misaligned. And that's why kids keep getting raped in institutional settings because they go with what insurance will cover. And insurance will drop their coverage if in certain cases when and that's what was threatened here in this situation with Canacuck. So the FBI sees this, they see the numbers. Then we get into Canacuck Haiti. And this is really disturbing. But

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  they're like, yeah, this is a yeah. They're like, this looks like an organized crime ring.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  Then does your 10? How many victims do you know? I'm like, hundreds. I have to go. I don't even know the number at this point. Like, thousands of tips, hundreds of victims. At this point, maybe like 50 something known perps for on our end, and only those that were convicted on that slide. But when you start following the money I mentioned, all that money, millions of dollars, going to Haiti and other countries. But the Haiti situation is particularly disturbing because Joe White always flew private and his private plane pilot was convicted of sodomizing his five year old daughter. And this is who's flying Joe White around to Haiti.

• 1:17:38Shawn Ryan?

  He was convicted of sodomizing his daughter?

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:42Shawn Ryan?

  Did Joe White know this?

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  Yes, Joe White testified in his trial as someone who would let his grandchildren be around this man as a character witness. He was a character witness for this guy who had sodomized his own child. And then let him stay on camp property while awaiting trial.

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  Okay, so I'm just painting the picture here. You've got a pedophile pilot, flying around, pedophile Pete Newman. Here he is in a Santa costume in Canacut, I mean, in Haiti with Canacut Haiti.

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  So, pedophile Pete with pedophile pilot and Joe White.

• 1:18:21Shawn Ryan?

  Shit. This is, this is...

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  So, we know of Haiti victims. We know of victims, Canacut victims, from Hawaii to Haiti, and who knows where else, all over the world. Um, but here's where it gets really concerning.

• 1:19:08Shawn Ryan?

  Look at this shit, dude.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  In the name of Jesus.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  So,

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  Canacut Haiti was founded by Joe White in 1991. And I remember when I was at camp, the end of every session, they'd throw around like a tithing basket, and you're supposed to like fund Canacut Haiti, or you could sign a baseball to fund a cabin of the poor children at Kids Cross America next door. Instead of scholarshipsing them into the mainstream camps, it's like, oh no, the poor kids have to go over here. So you could...

• 1:19:51Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, how, like, I know we're like, this is way off subject. You're a Christian. How the fuck is this allowed to happen?

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  It's not my Jesus.

• 1:19:59Shawn Ryan?

  Where's the retribution? Like, where is Christ, and when the fuck is he going to step in? This shit is happening all over the fucking world, in every community, in... It's fucking everywhere. And now they're using, they're, they, I mean, not now, it's been in the Catholic Church, it's been in all the churches forever. But it's like, they're using his name to get to us, to the kids.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  It's not my Jesus.

• 1:20:27Shawn Ryan?

  What the fuck is going on?

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:20:29Shawn Ryan?

  And why, why is, why, why is God allowing this shit to happen? Where is he?

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  When we go back to.

• 1:20:38Shawn Ryan?

  And none of these people are getting fucking caught. They're just going back, or they go to prison for a little bit and then they come back out. And they do it again. And they fucking do it again.

• 1:20:46Speaker 02

  I want to talk about that. I want to talk about when my brother Trey was really struggling, how it, and then died, destroyed my faith. Because I'm like, where were you, God? Where are you? Why are you letting this happen? Um, all valid questions, big part of my spiritual journey. Um, and here's the thing, I, I read something by a theologian who studies institutional sin. So this is, you know, Catholic Church, USA Gymnastics, like, these institutions are a part of the problem, right? It's especially atrocious when it's in the name of Jesus.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  Um, but he wrote an article, it was targeted towards the SBC, the Southern Baptist Convention. Huge pedophile problem. They don't want to do anything about. All lip service, no real substantive reform in the Southern Baptist Convention. And so he was targeting his article towards that. And I, this really stuck out to me. He said, idols demand sacrifice. Like Moloch, you know, it's like.

• 1:21:53Shawn Ryan?

  We just covered this with Dr. Dan Schneider.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  Is he a priest or something?

• 1:21:59Shawn Ryan?

  He is a, uh, I don't know, he's a PhD, but, um, in something in Catholicism. And we went over all these old gods and false gods.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  So if you look at this issue through the lens of institutional sin, which a lot of the church wants to ignore that institutional sins, it, it, it's a lot about personal sin, right? In most mainstream evangelical theology. And we've ignored this concept of institutional sin. But because of how incentives are aligned towards

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  insurance, right? And, uh, you know, fundraising money is part of it.

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  It's created idols. People idolize Joe White. People idolize Canacuck. People idolize Camp Mystic. People idolize their megachurch, you name it. And when you have an idol, idols demand sacrifice. And our children are being sacrificed on the altar to these idols.

• 1:23:00Shawn Ryan?

  You think that's what it is? Why do you, why do you think?

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Child rape is a, is just a casualty of business.

• 1:23:08Shawn Ryan?

  So are you saying you don't think this is for pleasure?

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  Well, at the pedophile level, it is.

• 1:23:17Shawn Ryan?

  At the Joe White level?

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, I mean, I think there's only a couple of conclusions to draw there. Like, I think, uh, people who empathize more with pedophiles than children have a problem.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  You're letting this guy stay on your camp property while awaiting trial? When this has just happened to his daughter?

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  Like,

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  the dude's not right. And he's still running this camp. He's still stewarding thousands of kids per summer on his properties and making shit ton of money.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  And

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  yeah, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this before, but the love of money is the root of all evil.

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  So not everyone's as, uh, complicit as Joe White. You know, there are some SBC leaders who, um, are not pedophiles, but they're not doing anything about the pedophile problem. Why is that? The institution above all else. So then you have children being raped, people being hurt. Well, that's the cost of doing business because we're saving so many souls.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  And I've had this conversation with a lot of people, um, a lot of survivors, in fact. Like, where is that calculus in scripture? Souls saved outweighs children raped.

• 1:24:36Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  But that's Canacuck's messaging is, well, whoops. We had a few bad actors who infiltrated our ministry, but look at all the souls we've saved. Like, that's not my Jesus.

• 1:24:48Shawn Ryan?

  And we're saying there's potentially thousands.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  There's definitely thousands.

• 1:24:54Shawn Ryan?

  There's definitely thousands.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, you know, only one in seven child sexual abuse victims ever come forward.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  So that's like a conservative calculation. If we know, if the prosecutor on, this is just Pete Newman, remember. One serial perpetrator. Fifty five victims known at the time of his sentencing prosecutor estimating a true count in the hundreds. But, you know, fifty five victims came forward in the criminal trial. I know of over two hundred and five in our database right now, like Pete Newman related and then way more beyond.

• 1:25:35Shawn Ryan?

  One in seven?

• 1:25:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then what, so then times that by seven?

• 1:25:39Shawn Ryan?

  It's like three hundred and fifty, right?

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  Well, if we're talking two hundred and five Newman victims in our database that have come forward so far, times seven.

• 1:25:47Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, two hundred. Holy shit.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  And that's Pete Newman.

• 1:25:51Shawn Ryan?

  That's just one.

• 1:25:56Shawn Ryan?

  And how many are there?

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  Over seventy.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  So when you start following the money and seeing their goal is to continue making this camp a cash cow. Because it's serving Joe White, you just heard me say like they've made eleven point seven million in that period of time personally. The white family through their church camp.

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  That's, that's where their heart lies. That's what they're pursuing and it's in the name of souls saved, but at what cost, right? So then they have this thing called Canica Katie that Joe White started in nineteen ninety one. And then they partnered with an organization called Cross International.

• 1:26:40Speaker 02

  And Cross International was also called Cross Catholic Outreach. So there's a Catholic side to it and then the evangelical side. Guy named Jim Kavanagh was doing Cross Catholic Outreach. Joe White and him partnered up. So it's like, you know, Kavanagh does the Catholic side. He does the non denominational side of fundraising. Cross International is one point three billion in general contributions. It's the thirty ninth largest nonprofit in the U.S. And no one's ever heard of it. Like I've been in philanthropy for twelve years. I've never heard of Cross International. And then like 1.2 billion of their annual contributions are in-kind donations and medical supplies.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  But then when you talk to people who have flown to Haiti with Joe White or gone on these Canacoc, Haiti trips, and I've obviously talked to a lot of them at this point, they're like, "We were handing out Ziploc bags with like candy and toothbrushes." I'm like, "That's not 1.3 million dollars worth of medical supplies." They're like, "No."

• 1:27:41Shawn Ryan?

  What are they doing with the medical supplies?

• 1:27:43Speaker 02

  Are there even medical supplies?

• 1:27:45Shawn Ryan?

  Or are they fucking selling them? Like, what would it be?

• 1:27:47Speaker 02

  I don't even know if they exist. I mean, so now the claim is that they are the primary source of funding for over 6,000 kids in Haiti who would starve to death if not for Joe White. And they go on these mission trips and Cross International, they would give some of this money I was mentioning to Cross International as a pass-through, but then some of it, like to the tune of 6 million, just directly wired to Haiti, or sorry, sent by check according to their non-amy form. They're sending checks to Haiti to these Divine Shelter schools. So I sent some people to get ground truth on this whole thing. And at first they were like, "Well, few of these schools they mentioned serving don't exist. There's not even roads to get there."

• 1:28:27Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm, this sounds like Minnesota.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then we kept...

• 1:28:35Shawn Ryan?

  Except it's Haiti, which is weird. Yeah, not that different.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, but this is an American ministry church, sending millions of dollars to Haiti to feed the children. And on their website that they just refreshed, it's not like we're going off of historical information. They very recently updated the Canacoc, Haiti website. And they say, "Well, yes, this was started by Pastor Edmund or someone," and then mentioned another pastor. And they're both dead.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  And so like who's running Cana Cuck Haiti or like with Cross International on the ground in Haiti? These two pastors mentioned on your website that have been running things, they're dead. And then we, uh, we had a whistleblower, uh, who found us. This person on the ground was a whistleblower for where this money was going. And, uh, they felt like they had to flee for their life when they told us what was going on with these organizations that Cross International and Cana Cuck Haiti are funding. And, uh, I won't say where they ended up, um, but I'm glad they're safe and I hope they stay safe. Um, but these were organizations, one was called Free the Children, and then they got

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  investigated for, uh, child trafficking and organ harvesting.

• 1:30:02Shawn Ryan?

  Organ harvesting?

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then they rebranded and reopened under a different name, like Overture International or something. And then Cana Cuck and Cross International still gave them money.

• 1:30:15Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  So to all the Cana Cuck donors out there, people giving them your business, uh, you're funding this.

• 1:30:25Shawn Ryan?

  Organ harvesting of kids and sexual trafficking and sexual abuse and rape.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  And silencing kids with NDAs.

• 1:30:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. And then, yeah, and then silencing the kid with a fucking NDA.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  Here's the numbers on that, 1.5 million to Free the Kids, a charity run by, uh, it's a Haitian orphanage, um, run by priest Boivier. And then in 2020, yeah, Overture International took over governance of Free the Kids after someone came forward with public accusations of sexual abuse against Father Mark, the priest running it. Um, the board was aware of multiple reports, particularly Father Mark. Okay, I mean, this mentions like three perps. And they failed to act until they couldn't deny the case. And, um, yeah, here's all the emails and things about that.

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  American Catholic priest accused of sexually assaulting a young boy in Haiti. And this is all, uh, an organization that Cana Cuck funds and Cross International funds.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  Sorry for all the piles of paperwork, but I just want people to know I have receipts. This isn't just conspiracy theory stuff. This is documented.

• 1:31:44Shawn Ryan?

  I think we'll probably...

• 1:31:50Shawn Ryan?

  I think we should just get the digital files of all these documents and put them in the link in the description. So all the millions of people that watch this can access the documents. I am curious, I mean, I had brought up the FBI. So what, how's their investigation going into this?

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  So that's the reason I put all that together was to present it to the FBI. Then they said, "Let's, uh, get in touch with the 10 worst victims," which is a horrible phrase and label, but who's been trafficked-

• 1:32:19Shawn Ryan?

  Most traumatized.

• 1:32:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, who's been trafficked, um, across state lines the most, whether it's to China, Haiti, or all over the US. And, uh, so I provided that. I talked to the, you know, certain victims in that pool who were willing to speak. Some of them are still scared, or they're not okay. And, um, so I had to do, you know, a lot of calling around to make sure that this survivor wanted to talk. Um, every time they have to talk, it brings up, you know, like, I'm sure it's true for veterans as well. It's like, you have to go back there. It's hard. And, uh, so I don't take that lightly, right? When I'm calling a survivor for a clarifying question, or like someone wants to speak to a survivor,

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  like, "Well, who's doing okay right now? Who wants to do this right now? Is it healing for them?" Anyways, we do that work. We give them the list of 10 survivors willing and ready to speak. They don't want, the number one thing is they don't want this to happen to another kid. They want this to stop. They're like, "Yeah, I'll talk to anyone. Uh, put me on that FBI list." The agent starts calling around. I hear back from the survivors. They've gotten in touch with them. And then we follow up, nothing. Follow up, nothing. So this presentation I was just referring to, that was July 2023.

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  And here we are, January 2026. And, uh, we're doing Kana Kuck's job for them. We're doing the FBI's job for them. We're going and finding these predators.

• 1:33:52Shawn Ryan?

  I'm starting to think that the FBI's job is just a fucking mouthpiece for whoever's in the White House to explain why they're not fucking doing their job. It just goes from administration to administration to administration, and that's what they do. You get up there and you listen to them talk about why the fuck they're failing again.

• 1:34:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and on this issue, they're not informed. Because, again, back to when I was the board chair of an anti-trafficking organization, the survivor leader of that organization would go train the FBI on how to spot trafficking and understand it. Again, the burden falls on survivors, time after time.

• 1:34:31Speaker 02

  And that survivor, I mean, it's almost her full-time job is going around and training law enforcement and how to understand trafficking, spot it, address it.

• 1:34:43Speaker 02

  So, like, I mean, trafficking's been going on for centuries. Why are we?

• 1:34:48Shawn Ryan?

  Why are they only talking to 10 victims? What are you guys, busy doing something? Fucking prove it.

• 1:34:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they made it through like, four on that list.

• 1:34:58Shawn Ryan?

  What have you done?

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so, I mean, since 2020, I started this investigation in 2021.

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  2020, actually. Fall of 2020. And here we are in 2026. I've been in touch with eight to 10 law enforcement agencies at this point, including the inspector general's office. They were looking at Kana Kuck for PPP loan fraud. I was like, well, get him on whatever you can, like, at this point. I didn't know what an inspector general was. I had to Google. I'm like, this is not what I do. But, uh, I guess it is now. Might be the rest of my life, but yeah, I mean, Inspector General's office, HSI, FBI, IRS, DPD, we had an arrest in Dallas, we had been in touch with the, yeah, different jurisdictions

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  and their law enforcement. The Attorney General of Missouri, now two different Attorney Generals in Missouri, and they're like, "Sorry, we can't do anything about Kana Kuk because we have unique jurisdictional issues." The way it was explained is that in Missouri, there's unique jurisdictional issues where they can't act upon anything unless the local law enforcement brings them in. I was positively refreshed, though, by some Missouri legislators. So, after I uncovered what happened to my brother, and the statute of limitations stuff started making sense, like, why was he forced to file so, or before he was ready? He was 21 when his perp went to prison, and he was forced to file by 23, just trying to graduate

• 1:36:29Speaker 02

  college, like, heal and, like, you know, wake up from this nightmare. And so then the civil litigation process broke him, led him to his first psychotic break. And I connected with these other survivors through the Facts About Kana Kuk network we were building. And I started testifying in Jefferson City and started proposing bills that would help these survivors have access to the civil courts past the age of 26. In Missouri, it's 26. That law's been unchanged since 1938. And so I started testifying on statute of limitations reform, and the House sponsor is from Taney County, his name's Representative

• 1:37:09Speaker 02

  Brian Seitz. And then our Senate sponsor, Brad Hudson, also represents Branson. So, when I told them what was going on at Kana Kuk, they have zero chill about child abuse. And they were like, "We will sponsor this bill." And then I went and testified in a hearing on it, brought some survivors as well who testified on this bill. The House Judiciary Committee was just mind blown. Everyone, like, there had heard of Kana Kuk or knows of Kana Kuk, because if you don't send your kids to Kana Kuk, then you go to K Life. There's something everywhere in Missouri, Kana Kuk related, and in other states. And

• 1:37:52Speaker 02

  this lobbyist came up and testified in favor, on behalf of Mayor Milton of Branson. And I lost it. I cried, because it was like, finally.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  There are people that are standing with survivors. And they don't care that Canacuck's one of the top revenue drivers, if not the top revenue driver to that part of the state. The mayor of Branson is on our side. And the rep, house rep from the area and the senator who represents that district are standing with survivors. And I left that hearing and the lobbyist for mayor Milton pulled me aside. He was like, I've got two daughters. I'm so pissed off after hearing everything I just heard. How can I help you?

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  And I'd never worked with a lobbyist. In my mind lobbyists are like shady.

• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  And, uh, yeah, so he was like, I want to help. And I would just call him and ask a question. He was like, no, like, I really want to help. Like, it's getting to the point where you need to retain a lobbying firm because you have a lot of opposition. I'm like, who? You know, at this point, I'm kind of like unaware. Uh, he's like, oh, you know, just like the whole insurance lobby and tort reform people. And, uh, the Catholic church and the Boy Scouts of America, like, they're spending, I don't even know what their budget is for lobbying. Definitely more than what I can combat as one person. Even though I'm fundraising now for like our efforts, like back then I was like, I can't go up against an industry like insurance.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  Um, I had some attorneys on my side who had seen the darkness because of cases they've taken on.

• 1:39:31Shawn Ryan?

  And so are they trying to shut down, um, the law?

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:36Shawn Ryan?

  That's what they're doing?

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  They don't want NDAs released.

• 1:39:39Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:39:39Speaker 02

  They don't want the statute of limitations changed because then it opens all these cases up.

• 1:39:43Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:44Speaker 02

  And the insurance companies have to pay out those settlements.

• 1:39:48Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 1:39:50Speaker 02

  So this lobbyist, uh, shout out to Mark, good man. He's like, I want to help you. Former firefighter, like, I don't even think he, oh, I think he went to college eventually, but like he was a first responder. He'd been very successful at getting like mental health things done for first responders in the Missouri legislature as a lobbyist. Uh, father of two girls. He's like, I want to help you. City of Branson's on your side. We've got, uh, representative sites and Senator Hudson.

• 1:40:19Speaker 02

  And you need real lobbyists. So they took us on. And then, so that was Missouri. And then in Texas, through mutual friends, got connected to one of the powerhouse lobbying firms in Austin, and they've been working with me pro bono for a couple sessions now. The Texas Legislature meets every other year, Missouri meets every year. So in Missouri, it's usually like a one, two, three step process, not getting things passed in like one session. In Texas, because there's a gap between sessions, you kind of get a little more panicked if you don't pass something that session. It's going to be two more years before you can even get something else done. But yeah, we got Trey's law passed in Texas and Missouri.

• 1:41:04Shawn Ryan?

  Did you have any help from any people in Congress or anybody to get that pushed through in Texas or Missouri?

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mentioned our bill sponsors in Missouri who represent Canuck's district, which I'm sure just upset them. But we got that done. And then, and that applies to child sexual abuse and trafficking victims, so minors. And it's for cases that arose on or after August 28th of last year, 2025. In Texas, we got a version of Trey's law passed that covers all survivors of sexual assault, regardless of their age and regardless of when it happened. And that was a really interesting process. I had Representative Jeff Leach as our House champion, he's also the House Judiciary Chair,

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  and he gave us the opportunity to provide an interim briefing to his committee. So that's super helpful because before the next session even starts, you're briefing them on this issue so that they can decide how to prioritize it, who should carry the bill, those kinds of things. Jeff carried for us on the House side because this was personal to him.

• 1:42:11Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 1:42:12Speaker 02

  His wife's a disclosed survivor. She got the civil statute of limitations extended to age 48 back in 2019. And that's great, but it wasn't retroactive. So again, as I mentioned, if you were abused between 1995 and 2015 in Texas, you still only have until the age of 23 to sue. Then it got extended to like thirty-three, not to forty-eight. Um, but that only applies to, uh, victims after twenty twenty-nine. Uh, sorry, twenty nineteen. So since that was passed in twenty nineteen, it only applies to survivors who were abused after twenty nineteen. They have until age forty-eight. But Jeff Leach, this was personal to him. Then I meet with Senator Angela Paxton.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  And turns out it's quite personal to her as well. She's a former schoolteacher and counselor. She's a mother and a grandmother. And she has zero chill about child abuse. And I told her about a former student of hers that is under an NDA. Was, now I can say was, under an NDA. And he had been in her tenth grade math class. And when I said,

• 1:43:26Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna say his name, but like when I said so-and-so says hello, and this is personal to him, she burst into tears and she told her team, this is why God put me in the legislature.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  To pass this bill.

• 1:43:40Shawn Ryan?

  There is a good person in there.

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  So I want people to know, they're not all bad. There, there are people that have fought with me tooth and nail. What I mean by that is

• 1:43:50Shawn Ryan?

  What's her name?

• 1:43:51Speaker 02

  Angela Paxton.

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  Um, she's done a lot of good for kids in Texas. Um, her husband's a politician too, and so she knew the ropes. And, um, yeah, she was a ride-or-die champion on this in Texas. And then there's a representative named Mitch Little. And he's a practicing attorney in the area of child sexual abuse. So as we were drafting the bill, we had a constitutional issue. So under the Texas, uh, I think it's even in the Bill of Rights, not just in the Constitution, but, uh, no retroactive laws can be made. And I really, in Texas, needed the law to be retroactive. Because it's my brother's story, right?

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  It's that student of Senator Paxton's story. But they were put under these NDAs, uh,

• 1:44:47Speaker 02

  You know, after the Pete Newman scandal. So they needed this to be retroactive, to be freed from their NDAs. Otherwise, it's just helping future victims, which is still good. But the conflict with the Constitution in Texas was an issue. And in Missouri, it's not retroactive because we have to address the constitutional conflict there. But Mitch Little, being a brilliant lawyer, he came up with a loophole and he said, anyone who wants to enforce an existing NDA has to get a special court order to keep it in effect. Otherwise, all NDAs are voided and unenforceable in the state of Texas after September 1, 2025.

• 1:45:25Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  And I thought that was a brilliant strategy because it forces the bad actors to reveal themselves. You want to take that abused kid to court and get a special court order to maintain that child's NDA or that victim's NDA? Show your face. So

• 1:45:44Shawn Ryan?

  Pretty slick.

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  What we accomplished in Texas is monumental. It's the most sweeping NDA reform anywhere in the country and probably world. There have been other NDA reforms passed, like the Speak Out Act, which applies to sexual harassment in the workplace. That was led by Gretchen Carlson and Julie Roginsky. They were Roger Ailes victims at Fox News. And I got to know Gretchen when, and their nonprofit's called Lift Our Voices, and they're still working on this issue, but it's workplace related, like pre-dispute NDAs in the workplace. So like, I mean, then it's valid, it's important work. Think about the McDonald's worker who signs an employment contract. They don't understand NDAs. They don't understand they're signing away their right to a court because they get sent to arbitration behind closed

• 1:46:30Speaker 02

  doors just by signing that employment contract. So what Gretchen and Julie are doing is really important and just leaves out kids. And so the Speak Out Act passed federally in 2022. And that's for pre-dispute NDAs in workplace sexual harassment cases. And I got connected through Gretchen when I was on the board of a women's philanthropic network. And she had joined as a new member. We had Members Day. She talked about Lift Our Voices and what she was trying to do. I side chatted her and I said, this is my brother's story. And she goes, I've never heard of a kid being put under an NDA. That's horrible. So we got on a call and I told her Trey's story.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  And she said, you need to talk to Nancy French. She lives in Franklin, Tennessee. She's a ghostwriter, does celebrity memoirs. She like spent 30 days in Wasilla, Alaska with the Palins, writing some books. She did a book for Mitt Romney. She did Sean Johnson, the Olympic gymnast.

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  She, she's had a lot, like, I hope she writes a book one day about all of the books she's written. The behind the scenes are crazy. But I didn't know Nancy French.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  I just went off this lead from Gretchen. She goes, you need to write a book. And then, once you have your book, you can option it into a film. Get this story out, like what, like Bombshell in their case. Helped people understand the Roger Eil story and the Fox News stuff. Or like Spotlight, right? The Catholic Church Crisis, that movie helped expose the scale and the scope of the situation. So I get on a call with Nancy for 45 minutes.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  She's a disclosed survivor of clergy abuse when she was 12. Vacation Bible school teacher abused her when she was 12 in the Church of Christ in Kentucky. And I told her what I was uncovering and working on. And she was like, I don't know how I can help. Like, yes, I'm a ghostwriter, but this needs to get out to the public ASAP. So anyways, we like stayed in touch. She's an amazing writer. And so I was like, if nothing else, look at this Facts About Canuck website and help me out with them. How do we get the word out? And then I met this woman who, on a blog post about the Pete Newman arrest. And a local, like, a local blogger in Tannehill County had written about Pete Newman's arrest.

• 1:48:58Speaker 02

  And someone left her full name and address and said, I reported Pete Newman well before he was arrested. Because my daughter saw him abusing a boy in the woods. I contacted her. She'd investigated Canuck on her own as a freelance journalist for like four years.

• 1:49:14Speaker 02

  And I said, can I acquire your research? I got her research. We organized it into like six binders. I take those binders out to Franklin, Tennessee to meet with Nancy French. And I'm going over the evidence, like some of the stuff I showed you. Like, they knew in 2003, why are they putting him under boundaries of like no nudity with children? No sleeping one-on-one with children if he's not sleeping one-on-one with children? And um, her husband David, he'd started a media platform called The Dispatch with some other guys. And it was a right-leaning conservative media outlet. And he walked in, he brought us lunch while we were going through all these binders, trying to figure out like, how do we write a book about this? Or what are we doing with this information? Because it has to get out. And he heard me say 500,000 kids have gone through this

• 1:49:58Speaker 02

  place. 50,000. And then he heard the NDA part, and he was like, what? So infuriated. He had just exposed Robbie Zacharias. So whistleblower friend in the Robbie Zacharias scandal, huge big televangelist who, very well-known around the world. And then he died, and all these people came out about how they'd been trafficked by Robbie Zacharias. So her, Nancy's husband David French had just exposed that. So he, he was like, NDAs, all of the things where it's like the same thing, just another version of it. And this is kids. And um, so by the time I flew back to Dallas, they were like, this can't wait on a book. We need

• 1:50:40Speaker 02

  to get this out to the public ASAP. So that's how the first articles came out on The Dispatch. And that platform, it's like a Substack model kind of platform. So not mainstream. I couldn't get mainstream media to write about this or care about this.

• 1:50:53Shawn Ryan?

  Of course, they won't touch it. Have they ever touched it?

• 1:50:55Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:50:56Shawn Ryan?

  Somebody did?

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  I went top-down on a, I had a friend who was vice president of Gannett Communications. And I told her, I'm stuck. I can't get Springfield News Leader, the local paper, to write about this. So we had The Dispatch, and then it got picked up by some other.

• 1:51:15Shawn Ryan?

  You said Gannett Communications?

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:18Shawn Ryan?

  Like Northeast?

• 1:51:19Speaker 02

  They, they own USA Today and like a big media conglomerate.

• 1:51:23Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  And I had worked, uh, so.

• 1:51:29Speaker 02

  At one point, towards the end of college, I interned for the RNC, the Republican National Convention, with this friend. And we both studied corporate communications and public affairs. We're both trained in crisis PR. That's how I saw what Canuck was doing, because that's my degree.

• 1:51:47Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  And so I call her, and she was like, this is ridiculous. I'm gonna get you on a Zoom call with the head of investigative reporting for our whole company. And then they brought in the regional head for USA Today. And we finally got five articles published in USA Today, and the Springfield News Leader, because I told them that if they don't report on this, then they're part of the cover up.

• 1:52:15Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 1:52:16Speaker 02

  And then they ran five articles. I was like, yeah, catching up for lost time.

• 1:52:20Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  Then would be better. Anyways, but once we got USA Today, that led to a Vice News piece. We actually won an Emmy on that, about the NDAs back in, we won an Emmy in 2022 for that.

• 1:52:30Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  Vice News, Vice TV is not around anymore, but they did a responsible and good job on that story. We had to have victims with anonymized treatments because they were scared because of the NDAs of speaking out. So they had to do like, you know, the blackout treatment for these victims to talk. And then we did a CBS Survivor sit down. I hosted it in Dallas, flew victims in from around the country. Same thing, anonymized treatment. Everyone was so scared because of these NDAs. So after the Dispatch articles, and David and Nancy put their stamp of credibility on it, David's now at the New York Times, and he's mentioned it in a couple of his opinion pieces, the Canuck scandal. And they're

• 1:53:14Speaker 02

  both Christians, and they have three kids and now grandkids. They don't, they don't like this stuff. So I still talk to them frequently, and they're always trying to help. Make intros, get this covered. So the mainstream media eventually followed, but that was not who wanted to tell this story initially. In fact, the woman I mentioned, who I, I acquired her research and put it in binders, she had taken this story, she did four years of investigating this, and then she took the story to Vanity Fair, and they said, oh, we have abuse fatigue. We just did a story on Catholic abuse.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  So she gave up on it. Fortunately, you know, we got connected. It was a year, almost a year to the date after Trey died because my therapist I'd been working with when Trey was not doing well. Because I had little kids, all my hats, you know, day job stuff. And I was going to visitation hours in psych wards or visiting Trey in rehab. And it got to the point where I was getting unhealthy.

• 1:54:19Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:54:20Speaker 02

  Right, I'm big sis, but I'm also mom. And I'm also stewarding this foundation role I have. And all these boards, you know, like I couldn't just full time take care of Trey. But everywhere we went failed him. Um, mental health system's a mess. I've seen the guts of it. It's not great. Um, medications he'd try would make him fat or like make the depression worse.

• 1:54:51Speaker 00

  Man.

• 1:54:51Speaker 02

  He was on and off suicidal for, for years. I never knew when it would be the last time I, you know, we'd use phone calls or visits. Like, I always left thinking that could be the last time, you know? And I'd go from like carpool line where I'd see a Cana Cook bumper sticker to visiting Trey in a psych ward. And I understand why he didn't want to live in this world. Every, everyone in Dallas just thinks Cana Cook is like, I mean, not anymore, but like for the longest time. People still sending their kids there. He felt so unseen and he couldn't talk about it. I would listen, I'm so glad I leaned in.

• 1:55:36Speaker 02

  I listened to everything he wanted to tell me. And a lot of it got super dark. And he was a brain researcher. He was brilliant. And he was working at the Langgrit Lab, which is shared program between MIT and Harvard. And he was studying the brain, I think, because he wanted to fix his own.

• 1:55:55Speaker 02

  So really smart kid growing up, National Merit Scholar, not finalist, not semi-finalist, National Merit Scholar, like top point zero one percent like on that test. He always wanted to be pre-med.

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  He had, he could have been a brain surgeon. I mean, he was brilliant, well-rounded, football,

• 1:56:19Speaker 02

  cross-country, like athletic, all the things, Eagle Scout. Then those depositions, like I mentioned, led to his first psychotic break. Thanks, Cana Cuck. So it was like the child sexual abuse. And then you had the institutional abuse and the gaslighting in those depositions. And then the in and out of treatment centers, some, he would leave without even a diagnosis. And it's like 20 more medications. Nothing was working or helping.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  And so he started like, deep diving and

• 1:56:56Speaker 02

  he came out to live in North Carolina with us for a month. And he was too paranoid to go to a certain therapist's office. I got him in because of my foundation role. I was doing some work with the University of North Carolina in Greensboro on healthy relationships. So these guys are all psychologists. And so I called the head of the department, great counseling department. I'm like, who's the best person in town for complex PTSD?

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  I, I don't know if my brother's gonna make it. All right. And I've got little kids I'm dealing with too. And he gives me a name. We go and we meet with that therapist and I have to sign the intake forms and like my own intro. He's too scared. He's in a ball in the corner.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  Jeez.

• 1:57:40Speaker 02

  We get in the office with the therapist and he's totally like almost catatonic, closed off.

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  And then I asked this woman, "Tell Trey about other clients you've had." And she goes into, "Well, I've treated MKUltra victims." And I didn't know what the... I was like, "What?" And Trey suddenly came to and was like, "Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  Okay." Like, that earned his trust. And she had had clients, like, starting back in the 80s, who would be in session with her, and they'd hear an ice cream truck and just go into a trance and follow the ice cream truck. And then go back and forth between, like, being a three-year-old, a 30-year-old, a 15-year-old, you know, like, that multi-personality thing.

• 1:58:33Speaker 02

  So she's like, "I've seen it all." And, um, "What's going on?" And Trey's like, "Tell her about Canuck." So like, "I would tell about Canuck." "You don't want to talk about it." And she's like, "Your symptoms are a lot like victims I've seen who survive satanic ritualistic abuse, or like this MKUltra stuff."

• 1:58:55Speaker 02

  And that's where I'm like, you know, I'm just sitting there as a supportive sister, but I'm also listening. And I go buy every book I can on MKUltra, like, all this stuff. I thought it was a conspiracy theory. And then I come back to... We moved back to Dallas eventually. And I got to really lean into helping my brother. So that lady was in North Carolina. Moved back to Dallas, find other therapists, same thing. They're like, "Sometimes he's 15, sometimes he's seven, sometimes he's 30-something." And I'm like, "What did Canuck do to you?" It's like, "What did they do to you?"

• 1:59:44Speaker 02

  It wasn't just like one therapist who was like crazy. It was like everywhere he went. When I was included, I got to see, I got a front row seat to his suffering.

• 1:59:59Speaker 02

  And I learned a lot about how these networks work. It's never just one perpetrator. It's never just one victim.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  The ritualistic abuse going on in the name of Jesus, like

• 2:00:14Speaker 02

  this guy who was abusing these kids was also baptizing them.

• 2:00:19Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  Reading scripture over them and praying over them as the abuse is happening.

• 2:00:27Speaker 02

  It shattered my faith.

• 2:00:35Shawn Ryan?

  Reading scripture over them?

• 2:00:41Shawn Ryan?

  Did your brother tell you that?

• 2:00:45Speaker 02

  Oh, I've talked to so many survivors now. So Trey was scared to talk because of the NDA. And he told a therapist in Dallas.

• 2:00:55Speaker 02

  She's in the same building as the guy who wrote the book CIA Doctors. Colin Ross, I think is his name.

• 2:01:03Speaker 02

  I read that, but I started educating myself on like, the MKUltra stuff's declassified. Like I just totally thought Trey was being like psychotic or something. And I was like, oh, this, I did my own research. I was like, this stuff's for real. And I met doctors that like treat these patients and Trey's symptoms lined up with all that. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And then

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  four days, I think it was four days, like very close to his death, he reached out to that therapist

• 2:01:39Speaker 02

  and said, they'll always control me and I'll never be free.

• 2:01:44Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 2:01:45Speaker 02

  And then he killed himself.

• 2:01:50Shawn Ryan?

  I'm sorry.

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  And when?

• 2:02:01Speaker 02

  When I started going around to meet with his therapists

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  and hear like all the same things over and over and over again

• 2:02:12Speaker 02

  of just like victims they've treated and how it's hard to at that point, like, and then there was also like drugs and addiction involved in Trace, like, it's just so hard to come back from that. And like all the medications and the failures of different doctors who couldn't help him. I learned pretty early on, I couldn't save him. So, you know, as a big sister, you're like, I'm supposed to protect my little brothers, and I couldn't.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  So I had, you know, my own therapist walking me through all this.

• 2:02:49Speaker 02

  She was really cool. She's retired now, but she

• 2:02:53Speaker 02

  PhD, Messianic Jew. So like she's ethnically Jewish, but she came into Christ, her housekeeper converted her to, uh, to Christ and she had a really cool faith.

• 2:03:07Speaker 02

  And she helped me understand like how to set boundaries, like you don't have to go to every visitation hours. You don't have to go to all those therapy, like you have to self-care. Because you're a mom, you're all these other things too. You're not just Trace's big sister. My parents were going through a divorce at the time too. Perfect storm.

• 2:03:26Speaker 02

  Uh, so she said, "You need to take a year and just grieve." And I'm a very action-oriented person, Sean, if you can't tell, so that was hard to heed, right?

• 2:03:42Speaker 02

  It's like, what do you mean, "Just grieve"? Like, just cry all the time for a year? Like, I I've got stuff to do.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  And she's like, "No, just grieve." Like, sit in the grief. Feel like, if you can't feel it, then you'll never heal from it. Like, you have to feel it to heal it. And the Jewish faith tradition has some really cool stuff around grief, like the way that they do funerals and the way the community supports each other when someone passes away. And, um, she's like, "You need to go through the first four seasons without your brother before you take any action." Like, just grieve it. And, um, it was really good advice for someone like me. But then... About a year.

• 2:04:29Speaker 02

  Like literally, she said, grieve for a year, then that year passed. I'm like, okay. I'm gonna do something.

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  And that's when I got on the middle of the night. And I find this blog post. And it's called The Turner Report. And he was like a

• 2:04:45Speaker 02

  local journalist who did his own blogging thing in Tanne County. And he'd posted about Pete Newman's indictment and then like reported on the criminal trial proceedings.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  And that's where I found that comment from that woman whose daughter had witnessed Pete with a boy in the woods and then acquired her research and all that. I got a burner phone after that. Like a drug dealer. And I would take, I'd get tips because in Trey's obituary. We, uh, we said, my parents and I, like, our family agreed, like, we are going to name this abuse.

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  Um, so, so many people were confused, like, what's wrong with Trey? He was like a straight A student, football player, like Trey was it? He was like the man. All the girls wanted to date Trey, like, all the boys wanted to be Trey, like. And then

• 2:05:40Speaker 02

  suddenly he's dead. Not so suddenly, actually. It was a slow decline. Uh, all horrible. And, uh,

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  yeah, so he, uh, in his obituary, we wrote all those things that were great about him. And at the end, we said he was a Canacut Camps abuse survivor. Um, and a friend to other survivors he could help. And, um,

• 2:06:09Speaker 02

  so that was out there in the Dallas Morning News and we started getting outreach from you know, like the Me Too movement. I call this Kids Too. Because we kept getting all these calls about, um,

• 2:06:23Speaker 02

  Our family, we, we think our son might have been abused at Canuck. He's never talked about it, or a direct victim reaching out. And I had to be really careful because one thing we knew from the civil case is that Canuck would put PIs on the victims and they would like pull their trash and surveillance them to get like, you know, any evidence of homosexual behavior, drug use, and then use it against them in depositions. And all these victims I've talked to, like, so many of them are like, yeah, I was followed by a black SUV. Like, oh my, I thought Trey was just like getting schizophrenic or something. Like, I didn't, not that I didn't believe him, I was just like skeptical.

• 2:07:08Speaker 02

  And then you hear it enough times, you're like,

• 2:07:12Speaker 02

  that is so evil.

• 2:07:16Speaker 02

  That Canuck and their attorneys would surveillance victims. And they also set up a hotline in the wake of pizza arrest.

• 2:07:25Speaker 02

  That would report back to themselves. Like [email protected]. And then that's how they-

• 2:07:32Shawn Ryan?

  Are you shitting me?

• 2:07:34Speaker 02

  That's how they grew their list of victims is like [email protected]. It's still up on their website. And so then-

• 2:07:41Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Then they can intercept the victims and Joe White would offer some families a trip to Disney World, a fancy hunting trip.

• 2:07:51Speaker 02

  Like a hundred thousand dollars for treatment, but it comes with an NDA.

• 2:07:57Shawn Ryan?

  Shit. That's still on the website?

• 2:08:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's [email protected], I think.

• 2:08:04Shawn Ryan?

  We'll pull it, we'll put it up on screen right now.

• 2:08:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have this "our response" page because-

• 2:08:09Shawn Ryan?

  That way if there's any victims, you know, they can

• 2:08:13Shawn Ryan?

  talk to their abuser.

• 2:08:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, not go there.

• 2:08:16Shawn Ryan?

  What the fuck?

• 2:08:17Speaker 02

  Well, it's worse than that, too. They had counselors in their network of counselors and they would send people to this guy. And then things that a victim would say in their counseling session, thinking they, it's confidential, hello HIPAA.

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  Things they would have only told that counselor come up in depositions.

• 2:08:39Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:08:42Speaker 02

  So this is very like Scientology. I mean, this is not the only cult that does this, but that's what they were doing to victims too.

• 2:08:52Speaker 02

  And then Canuck would pay the counselor, like pay the invoices. They would say, oh, you deserve free therapy. We'll pay for your therapy, but they wouldn't give the victim the money. They would pay the therapist and the therapist would report back.

• 2:09:08Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have the names of the therapists?

• 2:09:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:13Shawn Ryan?

  Is there any legal recourse to them?

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  Hmm? No.

• 2:09:18Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing?

• 2:09:18Speaker 02

  No. I mean, I-

• 2:09:19Shawn Ryan?

  Not for breaking hip, but not any of that?

• 2:09:23Speaker 02

  No, I mean, I think that, so that, I'm thinking of one in particular, like the one I have the most on. He was at a Baptist church in Branson. And I think when a lot of this came out in discovery in these lawsuits, they fired him or he's no longer in that role at that church.

• 2:09:44Speaker 02

  But yeah, there's a network of therapists that feed the information back to Canuck.

• 2:09:48Shawn Ryan?

  So they, they, Canuck recruited therapists

• 2:09:58Shawn Ryan?

  to talk to their victims and then have them report the deepest, darkest, most disgusting sexual abuse back to them so that they can cover it up. These are fucking licensed therapists.

• 2:10:10Speaker 02

  Hmm. Yeah. And the victims that would tell me this, I'd be like, report them to, like, try to get their license revoked, right? Like, I don't personally have a claim, right? Because it didn't happen to me, but I tell the victims it happened to them, like, please report this to the licensing agency in Missouri.

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  Because he should lose his license.

• 2:10:34Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  Joe White also claims to be a counselor.

• 2:10:39Shawn Ryan?

  I think what's the most...

• 2:10:43Shawn Ryan?

  How do you, how do you find this many people who are like,

• 2:10:49Shawn Ryan?

  okay with sexually abusing kids?

• 2:10:53Shawn Ryan?

  Like, they, they did everything but put a fucking recruitment, like, poster up that says, "Hey, if you, if you love to sexually abuse kids,

• 2:11:05Shawn Ryan?

  sign up here."

• 2:11:06Speaker 02

  Exactly. So, like, that's why it's so important when an institution has a case of child sexual abuse that they have an independent investigation into that organization. Not a law firm to cover, you know, them, but to have an independent investigation that looks into the scope and scale of the abuse that's occurred. Because it's, I've never seen a case where it's just one perpetrator, just one victim. Like, they're, they're usually tied into a net, especially with, like, the online stuff, so intersectional with this institutional abuse, right? Because they desensitize their victims by using porn a lot of the time, or, um, in the case of Canaan Cuck and some of these other, like, assemblies of God and, um,

• 2:11:48Speaker 02

  certainly Catholic church abuse, SBC stuff, they use an element of spirituality to it. Um, like, Pete Newman would tell boys that if they masturbated with him in a hot tub, they were still sexually pure because they weren't doing it with a woman. So, and, and that ties back again to Joe White's books about teen purity. So, like, from the top, you have this dude who's obsessed with teen sex and purity. And then his own words and philosophy and theology are twisted by these pedophiles that come to work at Canaan Cuck. And then they get caught abusing kids, and Joe White's like, "Oh, it's just boys being boys." "I thought it was immature. I didn't think it was criminal." And he says things like this in the deposition tapes we have. And, um...

• 2:12:34Speaker 02

  He was like, they're, you know, just, uh-

• 2:12:36Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have them saying that?

• 2:12:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, we have hours and hours of deposition videos.

• 2:12:40Shawn Ryan?

  Can we put them up?

• 2:12:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's put them up. I got-

• 2:12:43Shawn Ryan?

  We can insert them into this.

• 2:12:44Speaker 02

  Please, please.

• 2:12:45Shawn Ryan?

  Send it.

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:47Shawn Ryan?

  Send it to us.

• 2:12:48Speaker 02

  Just wait till you see this guy's face lift, too. He looks great.

• 2:12:51Shawn Ryan?

  I can-

• 2:12:52Speaker 02

  Like, what in the Kenneth Copeland is going on here? You know, that, like-

• 2:12:56Shawn Ryan?

  That's exactly who just popped into my brain.

• 2:12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what, yeah.

• 2:12:59Speaker 04

  You would agree with me that we can't trust what Pete Newman says or has said about the number of victims or the extent of the contact with individual victims?

• 2:13:15Speaker 03

  It's, it's hard to know what to trust and what not to trust.

• 2:13:18Speaker 04

  Well, do you trust him at all?

• 2:13:24Speaker 03

  I trust him at all. When he sent us a list, um, I believe that there was a list of approximately, approximately eighteen or nineteen names.

• 2:13:39Speaker 04

  Twenty-two, I think.

• 2:13:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay, that list. And I, and I forget the exact date of that list. It was-

• 2:13:47Speaker 04

  The first list. The first list that Newman sent you-

• 2:13:51Speaker 03

  Sent to, well, there was, I'm, I'm referring to a list that he sent to Chris Cooper.

• 2:13:55Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:13:56Speaker 03

  And I can't tell you the date. But, um, I talked to a number of those parents of those victims and have subsequently had conversations with a number of the children of those. And it was consistent with the list that there were two or three boys that he said he had touched on the list. That was consistent. There was, um, sixteen-ish boys that he said on the list that he hadn't touched. And that has been consistent. So there was, there's a degree of trust there that, that, that in investigating that particular list.

• 2:14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's in deposition saying things like, "We didn't, uh, fire Pete because these incidents of nudity were like two drops in a cascade of applause and praise."

• 2:14:50Speaker 02

  And all the victims, we, when we're watching these deposition tapes, we're like, "Those two drops, those are poison. That poisoned the whole well or waterfall," whatever your metaphor is, like-

• 2:15:02Speaker 02

  I'm pretty sure scripture says like if one sheep goes missing and you've got 99, you go after the one lost sheep, like go after those drops of water, those poisonous drops of water that most people would call felony acts, instead of focusing on the applause of praise and money coming in through this rainmaker director who's obviously naked with kids all the time because you're writing contracts to say, stop spending so much time naked with kids. You're like revising his HR document to say, no more one-on-one sleepovers, spend more time with your wife Katie, less, a northern amount of time with kids. Like,

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  it's unbelievable. And this is out there. So since the dispatch articles dropped in 2021.

• 2:15:44Shawn Ryan?

  Where's this guy in prison?

• 2:15:45Speaker 02

  Jefferson City Correctional Center.

• 2:15:48Shawn Ryan?

  How is he not fucking dead? Usually these guys get killed in prison.

• 2:15:53Speaker 02

  Who's protecting him?

• 2:15:57Shawn Ryan?

  Fuck, man, you're right.

• 2:16:05Speaker 02

  Oh, and I had to protest his parole um in 2024. So here's some Missouri math. Three life terms.

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  And he was up for parole after serving 15 years.

• 2:16:20Speaker 02

  Because in Missouri, a life sentence is 30 years.

• 2:16:25Speaker 02

  So that's kind of weird. I'm 38. I've outlived my lifespan.

• 2:16:29Speaker 02

  Then he had three of those. Three 30-year terms. So 90 years of prison. But under the current criminal code in Missouri, you're up for parole after serving half of one life term, which is 15 years. And then you're up for parole again every one to five years after that first hearing. So I set up a website, protestpetzparole.com. And we got, I mean, his opposition file has to be this thick. We got thousands of letters and emails sent in to the victim specialist office. And uh, and then he had his hearing. And he started it by, I've spent a lot of time in jail, counting my victims. It was only 55.

• 2:17:10Speaker 02

  Like that was gonna be a good look for him. Only fifty-five. And we know it's thousand, you know, it's like.

• 2:17:18Speaker 02

  Uh, and like, if you count, I, I don't consider myself a, well, I guess I am a Canuck victim, but not a direct victim like my brother was. But if you start counting the family members of these victims, that might be hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have been shattered by this. By Canuck, like Pete plus the seventy plus other perps we know about, times all the ones we don't know about, and then the collateral damage in these families. And our laws protect these institutions and these predators.

• 2:17:56Speaker 02

  And they can walk, I mean, we just posted a new perpetrator on our, on Facts About Canuck, uh, yesterday, because she got out of prison after three years. So that's a woman on, so Canuck, we know, female on female crime, male on female, male on male, obviously, my brother's story. Um, so it's the culture of, we only care about counting the souls we've saved, not the kids who gets, get harmed along the way.

• 2:18:32Speaker 02

  We talked to Joe White about it. I mean, we've gotten him on a couple of phone calls, and it's like, he just starts weeping and playing the victim himself.

• 2:18:41Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know Andy Frazella by chance?

• 2:18:43Speaker 02

  No, should I?

• 2:18:44Shawn Ryan?

  You should probably know him. He's, uh, he owns this big supplement company called First Form. He's a good friend of mine. He's in Missouri. He's in St. Louis. I know he's got some deep connections. I'll introduce you.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  I'd love that.

• 2:19:01Shawn Ryan?

  And he's not fucking scared of anything.

• 2:19:07Speaker 02

  I'll talk to anyone who will listen.

• 2:19:12Shawn Ryan?

  I just.

• 2:19:16Speaker 02

  At one point, I got connected with James O'Keefe at Project Veritas. And that, so they were on this, like, they were doing it. I had several Zoom calls. And then, when I had breakfast with James in Dallas one time,

• 2:19:33Speaker 02

  I explained the summer camp situation. He goes, I've never, he was like, Elizabeth, I've never thought about this. Camps are the perfect places to indoctrinate children.

• 2:19:43Speaker 02

  Like, yes, this American summer camp tradition is send your kids off into the woods for a month with strangers. And hope they come back in one piece. But parents don't have a lot of insight. I mean, they could have gone to the camp themselves, but you don't get a lot of communication. You don't have a lot of insight into what they're teaching your kids, you know, that like whole culture situation. It can be like especially alarming if you're there for a month. Like, I would usually only go for one or two weeks.

• 2:20:14Speaker 02

  Trey went for a month.

• 2:20:17Speaker 02

  But, yeah, so Project Veritas was like, this is so messed up. Like, how can we help? And I briefed them and then James left Project Veritas and it was new leadership and something. And like, I followed up and followed up and followed up and I don't think.

• 2:20:36Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, it's, yeah, actually, we were teaming up with Project Veritas the first time I interviewed Ryan about all of that stuff. And they were, actually, we actually held the episode to release it at the same time. Cause they had a bunch of stuff too, and then they backed out. So it was just me and Ryan.

• 2:20:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:55Shawn Ryan?

  The only ones talking about this shit.

• 2:20:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well.

• 2:21:00Speaker 02

  New bestie. Thanks for caring.

• 2:21:02Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, well, I just, that's what I just, how could you not?

• 2:21:08Speaker 02

  Everyone will tell you they care about child sexual abuse. And then, when it, when the rubber meets the road, they don't, they don't want to do it.

• 2:21:19Shawn Ryan?

  These people give a shit. I just told you the last time when we brought up roadblocks, they took a $6 billion haircut in one week. And I quit, I quit tracking it after that. We'll throw the graph up. The day, the day we released that episode, it went, lost $6 billion in one week.

• 2:21:37Speaker 02

  Good. Because that's how you have to do it. You have to hurt them where it hurts and it's, they care about the bottom line.

• 2:21:43Shawn Ryan?

  Unfortunately, it's ridiculous that's like, that's, that's the win. Oh yeah, how many kids have been fucked up because of that game? How many kids are dead? How many kids have carved slut into their forehead because of fucking roadblocks? And our win is like, oh yeah, we took $6 billion from them. Well, at least they don't have to run around with slut carved in their fucking forehead everywhere they go.

• 2:22:05Speaker 02

  Have you seen, I, yeah.

• 2:22:07Shawn Ryan?

  That's a 764 satanic cult shit.

• 2:22:10Speaker 02

  Well, that's a Canuck victim. How's that in her leg?

• 2:22:13Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 2:22:14Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:22:16Shawn Ryan?

  It was, they, they were doing that kind of this satanic ritual? Ugh, I mean, it all is, right? It all, all that sexual abuse is, but that's,

• 2:22:27Shawn Ryan?

  that's a, a visible mark.

• 2:22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't know if I believed in all of that stuff. And then I met, um, someone who ran the office for Victims of Crime, OVC.

• 2:22:41Speaker 02

  And he put me in touch with, uh, my PIs and, um, he had just talked to some survivors of SRA and, uh, I was like, well, is that real? Like, you know, I'm still trying to process all of that at this point. I'm like, I've heard this from therapists over and over again. And he was like, Elizabeth, I didn't, I didn't think that was real. Until I started meeting all these survivors. And he's like, I just met with one in Missouri. Like, again, what the Missouri is going on? And, um, and she had no legs. They, they'd cut off her legs.

• 2:23:22Shawn Ryan?

  They, they cut off her legs? Where was she from?

• 2:23:25Speaker 02

  Missouri.

• 2:23:26Shawn Ryan?

  What, I mean, what? From this?

• 2:23:29Speaker 02

  Not, no, not a Canuck victim, like, just a satanic, ritualistic abuse victim. And so this guy, he was like, I didn't, I thought it was like, you know, it's very dark and he's seen a lot of darkness. Um, and he was skeptical until he started meeting these victims.

• 2:23:49Speaker 02

  And he's like, it's very real. I've talked to enough of them now to be convinced. And I was like, well, here's what I know about what happened to Trey. And then there's these other victims, like things carved in their leg and stuff. I'm like,

• 2:24:03Shawn Ryan?

  This is, this is, this is this commonality out of Canuck victims. They have.

• 2:24:09Speaker 02

  The, the carving, those words that you mentioned, uh, I've seen it once. Um, physically, I mean, personally seen it once.

• 2:24:20Speaker 02

  Traded other things to self harm, but not that. Um, but yeah, I've seen.

• 2:24:26Shawn Ryan?

  This was their own, I mean, I know it all stems from something, so I don't want to take away from that. What I'm talking about is the seven, six, four, the, the, the, the, the perpetrator would have the victim carve that into them.

• 2:24:43Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 2:24:44Shawn Ryan?

  We're talking about the same shit.

• 2:24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know, like I was saying earlier, the playbook is the, you start wondering when you look at, you meet with or talk to Catholic survivors, SBC victims, you know, Canuck, these institutional situations. Um, you're like, what book are they all reading? Cause it's the, the patterns across these institutions.

• 2:25:10Shawn Ryan?

  Well, we, we uncovered that a couple of weeks ago too, that, I mean, there's, there are, I mean, you've already brought it up. I can't remember if it was on the break or if it was on, um, right here. But, I mean, there, there, there's manuals everywhere on how to do it. The playbook. I mean, there's tons of manuals.

• 2:25:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, like, so what I showed you in Rick Brasler's PowerPoint, he's like, here's the literal book on how to find children and abuse them.

• 2:25:42Speaker 02

  And now that there's so much online, you don't need the physical book anymore. It's just these chat rooms and stuff.

• 2:25:48Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:50Speaker 02

  The fact that Pete Newman's devices were never investigated for child sexual abuse material. That keeps me up at night. The fact that.

• 2:26:00Shawn Ryan?

  It's a fucking cover up.

• 2:26:02Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:26:03Shawn Ryan?

  What else? I mean.

• 2:26:04Speaker 02

  So literally, they hired, being a corporate communications major, we had this firm, a huge PR firm, one of the largest in the world. And they would send someone in as like guest lecturers in our classes. And there's one on crisis communications. And then I noticed, when I started going back and digging into all this Pete Newman stuff and the cover up, I couldn't find anything mentioned about Pete Newman as it associated it with Canacook until like the ninth page of Google search results. So I'm like, this, they've spent millions on this cover up, right? Like, I just knew that from my background. And then the spokesperson for Canacook,

• 2:26:42Speaker 02

  with his name, I Googled it, and he was the head of crisis for the Americas for this large PR firm. And now he like works for the Fed somewhere. But they hired the best crisis comms firm and team in the country to cover this up. And I, my team and I have like,

• 2:27:06Speaker 02

  calculated a probably like $2 million budget for this crisis PR cover up. And now when I know they're offering these lobbyists to oppose my bills, like trace law and SOL reform and camp safety,

• 2:27:19Speaker 02

  they are telling us their budget. Like, they offered that DC lobbyist 250K. They offered more to the Austin lobbyist. And it's like,

• 2:27:29Speaker 02

  okay, we'll just keep a spreadsheet going on how much money you're willing to spend against me on passing these child protection laws.

• 2:27:34Shawn Ryan?

  Good fucking luck when this comes out. You can't buy this kind of PR.

• 2:27:40Speaker 02

  Well, I'm grateful for the opportunity.

• 2:27:42Shawn Ryan?

  Those people.

• 2:27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's.

• 2:27:50Speaker 02

  It's been a really eye-opening six years.

• 2:27:55Shawn Ryan?

  This shit is gonna send. It's gonna go big. I fucking know. I just can feel it. People are gonna be pissed.

• 2:28:04Speaker 02

  I hope so, because this is righteous anger. This is what righteous anger is for. We need to be pissed about the right things. We need to be enraged by what's happening at Canacook and these other camps. I mean, Facts About Canacook is a whistleblower website that a bunch of survivors pulled together. A Canacook survivor put together our social media, because he does that for work. And, you know, the Survivor Army is growing, and they're gaining their voices, and now they can legally talk, at least the ones with Texas cases. We just filed it in Alabama, trades laws filed in Alabama to end NDAs and child sexual abuse and trafficking cases in Alabama. We're filing it in Oklahoma

• 2:28:50Speaker 02

  alongside statute of limitations reform.

• 2:28:54Speaker 02

  And, yeah, if your audience wants to bring this to their state, let's go.

• 2:29:00Shawn Ryan?

  They're gonna want to.

• 2:29:01Speaker 02

  And federally, I just got word this morning that Senator Ted Cruz, my senator from Texas, he is gonna sponsor trades law federally.

• 2:29:09Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome.

• 2:29:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he's gonna try to do it with Senator Gillibrand. She carries the Speak Out Act, so she's very familiar with this NDA issue. And so...

• 2:29:20Shawn Ryan?

  Who's your congressman?

• 2:29:23Speaker 02

  We are talking to several. A lot of them want it. Congressman Ica's office was really interested in this. He's a Republican out of California. California has a version of trades law that was part of a broader Crime Victims Act. And so, we don't need to pass trades law in California. They've already covered this base. But it's only Tennessee, Go Tennessee 2019, that there is a plaintiff's attorney, a Democrat in a very Republican legislature, who said this is evil, and he's deceased now. But...

• 2:29:55Speaker 02

  Representative Beck in Tennessee, it's just two, it's like two lines, one sentence, that NDAs and child sexual abuse and trafficking cases should be void and unenforceable as against the public interest of the state. There was no hearing, they, like, there was no testimony in the committee. Unanimous, zero no votes. And, yeah, so that was 2019, so anyone under an NDA in Tennessee since 2019, void and unenforceable. And you have to change the law, because the lawyers don't even know that's a law sometimes. But, so the lawyers are gonna keep putting victims under NDAs? So you have to change the law, so then the victim can realize, or they can find a different attorney who tells them, "You were put under an NDA in 2020 in Tennessee, it's void and

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  unenforceable because of this 2019 law." And then Alabama, I'm from a big Roll Tide family, my grandpa didn't miss a game his entire life, and that came about because I have a ton of cousins in Walker County, my mom's side of the family, and they were following on Facebook, like, this whole Trey's Law journey, and then, out of the blue, I get a text from a representative in that area, it's like, "Your cousin told me about what you're doing, I would love the honor of bringing this to Alabama."

• 2:31:16Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome.

• 2:31:17Speaker 02

  And I'm like, "Okay, there are good people in the world." And then, two weeks later, he texted me, and he was like, "I'm a senator now," and I'm like, "What's going on in Alabama? There's like a special election or something." So, that's Senator Matt Woods now, he's standing with survivors in Alabama. He just prefiled Trey's Law, and our House Rep is David Faulkner, who's carrying Trey's Law and our Camp Safety Bill in honor of Sarah Marsh, one of the girls who died in Camp Mystic, she was from Birmingham.

• 2:31:45Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 2:31:46Speaker 02

  And...

• 2:31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, in Oklahoma, we're talking to the Speaker's top counsel, Representative Kennedy, and then Ted Cruz's team at the federal level. Schmidt's office is willing to be helpful because Kana Kuck's Senator Schmidt's state.

• 2:32:03Speaker 02

  And then I got to know Senator Ashley Moody when she was Attorney General of Florida. And we were on a panel together at this event for the Policy Circle, talking about safeguarding innocents. And when she was AG of Florida, she had an over 90% success rate in prosecuting trafficking cases.

• 2:32:25Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:32:25Speaker 02

  Also a mom, like, young. So she was appointed Marco Rubio's seat. So she's Senator Ashley Moody now. And so I'm keeping her team up to speed with what we're trying to do because she cares about this stuff. And then Senator Katie Britt's office, they've been supportive. And we'll have the Alabama tie-in after this session.

• 2:32:47Shawn Ryan?

  Did you say Steve Toth helped you when he was in Congress?

• 2:32:50Speaker 02

  So, yeah, he's a Texas state rep running for Congress, and he's running for Crenshaw's seat, actually. And-

• 2:33:00Shawn Ryan?

  Was Crenshaw helping you? Did he help out?

• 2:33:04Speaker 02

  Not a- no.

• 2:33:05Shawn Ryan?

  Did you reach out to him?

• 2:33:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:33:07Shawn Ryan?

  You didn't?

• 2:33:07Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:33:10Shawn Ryan?

  You probably should.

• 2:33:13Speaker 02

  I'll get right on that. But Toth, he's a good guy because he stood with Rep. Leach on the House floor when the House was going to vote on Trey's law. And I couldn't be there in Austin for some reason. So I was watching it, like, on my laptop. And you can see, like, right there next to Jeff Leach is Steve Toth. And he has this look of fury on his face as Jeff's doing the bill outlay, which is basically like saying, "I'll send you the clip." I mean, it's super powerful. And then Mitch Little had some powerful comments, too. But in certain situations, when a bill's presented and people are passionate about

• 2:33:54Speaker 02

  it, even if it's not their bill, they'll go up there and stand with the bill sponsor who's presenting it. And Toth was, like, right there in the camera.

• 2:34:05Shawn Ryan?

  I would bet Crenshaw would bend over fucking backwards to help you right now because from what I've heard, he could really use a win.

• 2:34:14Shawn Ryan?

  And he can't help you if he doesn't know about it.

• 2:34:18Speaker 02

  Does he watch your show?

• 2:34:20Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know, I've heard he does.

• 2:34:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll, uh, give him a visit.

• 2:34:25Shawn Ryan?

  I'll put you in touch with his attorneys.

• 2:34:27Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 2:34:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean,

• 2:34:34Speaker 02

  I think this is a slam dunk for anyone who wants to do something for kids right now, because the Epstein files aren't going anywhere at the moment, so...

• 2:34:42Shawn Ryan?

  Not a whole lot of people in government want to help kids.

• 2:34:44Speaker 02

  Not a whole lot of momentum on that.

• 2:34:46Shawn Ryan?

  A lot of people want to help pedophiles, not very many people want to help kid victims.

• 2:34:51Speaker 02

  But I haven't come across one elected official who thinks kids should be silenced contractually after surviving sexual assault or trafficking. It's a pretty hard thing to be against.

• 2:35:03Shawn Ryan?

  That's good to hear.

• 2:35:13Speaker 02

  There's a lot more behind the scenes on that Texas bill, uh, if you want to talk about it, but, um, we landed the plane and victims have their voices back. And the most poignant memory in this work from last year was when I got to tell that student of Angela Paxton, Senator Paxton's former student,

• 2:35:35Speaker 02

  September 1st, two words, be free.

• 2:35:43Shawn Ryan?

  I love that.

• 2:35:43Speaker 02

  He's free.

• 2:35:46Shawn Ryan?

  Elizabeth, what does...

• 2:35:51Shawn Ryan?

  What do you have to accomplish to move on with your life?

• 2:36:00Speaker 02

  I just think when you lose someone under these circumstances and crimes are involved,

• 2:36:08Speaker 02

  you have to understand the issue, first of all, figure out how to prevent it from happening to others, because I hold this information now. Uh, my brother's not allowed to talk about it, so I have to talk about it. And now I work with a lot of other survivors who are ready and willing to talk about it.

• 2:36:31Speaker 02

  And as long as they need me, I'm here.

• 2:36:34Speaker 02

  And I don't know what that looks like. I've thought about, I told you, my faith was shattered, like, deconstructed it, reconstructed, like, I've thought about going to seminary, I've thought about going to law school. And then I realized, you know, in helping pass these four laws in one year, I'm probably best served, uh, best service to others if I keep advocating with them for them.

• 2:36:59Speaker 02

  Sometimes they need a voice, sometimes they just need a mic. You know, Trey doesn't have a voice right now. Um, since my brother died, I've been trying to be his voice. Then there are other survivors who have just been silenced and suffering in the shadows and, um, having them testify at a hearing for a lot of them is so healing.

• 2:37:24Speaker 02

  So these hearings are healing for them. Um, sometimes I'm just the first person they've ever disclosed their abuse to, and I just hold that as sacred. Like, it's holy ground when a survivor discloses their abuse to you.

• 2:37:37Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. This here is full of dry shampoo and secrets. Because I will not, uh, if someone trusts me with that, I consider it sacred and holy. And then sometimes they need help, they need, um, they might need counseling, they might need rehab.

• 2:38:00Speaker 02

  Um, they might just need someone to hold their story with them. And they might need to connect with other survivors. And now there's this whole community of Canacuck survivors and other survivors of camp abuse and negligence, um, who are finding healing in community. So, um, I haven't gotten that far to, to ask myself, like, what do I need to move on? Because I don't think you ever move on from loss. I think you move forward. And I'm of the strong opinion that as Christians, we're not supposed to just sit here and wait on heaven to happen.

• 2:38:40Speaker 02

  We are called to bring heaven to earth.

• 2:38:43Speaker 02

  And that's what I'll spend the rest of my life doing, is trying to bring more of heaven to earth, more truth, more peace, healing, transparency.

• 2:38:53Shawn Ryan?

  You need a break? All right, let's take a break.

• 2:38:58Shawn Ryan?

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• 2:39:43Shawn Ryan?

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• 2:40:26Shawn Ryan?

  Want more from the Sean Ryan Show? Join our Patreon today for more clips and exclusive content. You'll get an exclusive look behind the scenes where you can watch the guests interact with the team and explore the studio before every episode. Plus, unlock bonus content like our extra intel segments where we ask our guests additional questions, our new SRS onsite specials, and access to an entire tactical training library you will not find anywhere else. And the best part? Patreon members can ask our guests questions directly. Your insights can help shape the show. Join us on Patreon now, support the mission, and become part of the Sean Ryan Show's story.

• 2:41:10Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 2:41:40Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Elizabeth, we're back from the break. But hey, on the break, you know, we were having a little chat. I didn't know you liked firearms.

• 2:41:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, shout out to the Texas Gun Experience. I was just shooting out there.

• 2:41:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, the Texas, I can only imagine what goes on in the Texas Gun Experience. But anyways, maybe the next time you go to the Texas Gun Experience, you can take this one in.

• 2:42:01Speaker 02

  For real? Oh, my gosh, thank you.

• 2:42:04Shawn Ryan?

  You don't even know what it is yet.

• 2:42:05Speaker 02

  Is this the one with the red dot? Can I open it? Like Christmas morning, thank you. Hell, yeah.

• 2:42:18Shawn Ryan?

  There you go. So, I mean, after interviewing you for whatever we've gone now, two and a half hours, three hours, maybe, you got a lot of enemies. So, uh, you're gonna need, uh, something to protect yourself.

• 2:42:33Speaker 02

  This is awesome.

• 2:42:35Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, so that's the SIG P365 Legion with the red dot that you were going on about. And, uh, that is their latest, you wanna hold it up?

• 2:42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say, magazine's not in it.

• 2:42:46Shawn Ryan?

  Magazine's not in it, it's safe. Holds 17 rounds, plus one in the pipe, so 18 rounds. It's got the red dot, it's all metal.

• 2:42:53Speaker 02

  Obsessed, thank you.

• 2:42:55Shawn Ryan?

  That is the... Legitimately, I'm not just saying this, you're not gonna get a better everyday carry in the sub-pump, compact category than that.

• 2:43:04Speaker 02

  I'm so excited. My husband's also gonna be so thrilled.

• 2:43:07Shawn Ryan?

  He'll probably be jealous.

• 2:43:08Speaker 02

  He'll be very jealous.

• 2:43:09Shawn Ryan?

  Cause you're rocking a Hellcat now?

• 2:43:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:11Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that...

• 2:43:13Speaker 02

  I like that, cause it, you don't have to deal with the safety. It's like in the trigger, but...

• 2:43:16Shawn Ryan?

  You'll like that better.

• 2:43:17Speaker 02

  I already do. I like how it fits my, I have tiny hands.

• 2:43:20Shawn Ryan?

  We'll pop a couple rounds off at the end.

• 2:43:22Speaker 02

  Okay, perfect.

• 2:43:23Shawn Ryan?

  Before you head back.

• 2:43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, we deserve that. This is a hard topic.

• 2:43:26Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:26Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:43:27Shawn Ryan?

  You're, you're welcome.

• 2:43:31Speaker 02

  That's, this is amazing, thank you.

• 2:43:32Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome.

• 2:43:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're gonna piss off a lot of pedophiles.

• 2:43:40Shawn Ryan?

  Uh, we're also gonna piss off a lot of people at Camp Canuck.

• 2:43:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, one and the same.

• 2:43:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Good, good point. So what are, what are we, what are we diving into next?

• 2:43:53Speaker 02

  Well, thank you for-

• 2:43:54Shawn Ryan?

  You brought up a chart on the break.

• 2:43:57Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, well, that was just chit chat, but um, I did wanna show, yeah, so this was just like side chatting. Um, but I think the best visual to map out the whole Canuck situation I shared

• 2:44:11Speaker 02

  is this network map. So my team of PIs, you know, whenever we're digging into something, we wanna put it in a format that law enforcement can easily read and understand. Um, but this is how big the web is. It's like every entity that Joe White or Canuck Ministries has a hand in, you can see the little handcuff icon. Um, and then we have a separate page that outlines the exact charges for those handcuffs, but-

• 2:44:35Shawn Ryan?

  We'll put that on screen.

• 2:44:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just, it's not normal, so. That's-

• 2:44:40Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 2:44:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's the-

• 2:44:42Shawn Ryan?

  So each one of these is a different business? Or LLC, or what, what, what exact?

• 2:44:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they're LLCs, or ministries, or churches he's on the board, like, things he's affiliated with. And um, you can't find one that doesn't have some sort of-

• 2:44:59Shawn Ryan?

  It's not connected to the handcuffs.

• 2:45:01Speaker 02

  Sexual exploitation of children.

• 2:45:03Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 2:45:08Speaker 02

  So, when you don't hold predators accountable, the first time you see a flag, you attract bad actors to your enterprises, and now it's a mess. And I think with Joe White, I don't know what his deal is, but I assume uh, it's a lot darker than just a culture of complacency. But, in general, and what I wanted to talk to you about before we go shoot, is this culture of complacency is a camp industry problem. It's industry-wide. So-

• 2:45:42Speaker 02

  You know, I was doing this Canuck stuff since 2021, trying to understand what happened to my brother, connecting with all these victims. And then I started looking at, okay, is Canuck an outlier? Or is this the norm? And I started getting tips from all over the country, including other camps, many in Texas, who have victims under NDAs. So word starts getting out, especially as I started testifying in state legislatures. You know, when you're testifying at a hearing, that's public and anyone can watch it. And so I started reaching more of the masses that way.

• 2:46:24Speaker 02

  And then I'd get outreach from random people about camps or organized crime within churches and cults, oftentimes with IRS church status. We've got to stop giving church status to cults. And that's an IRS issue on my list of things to discuss with the religion business guys you've had on.

• 2:46:45Shawn Ryan?

  Nathan.

• 2:46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, Nathan's doing really good work in the name of Christ to get rid of this corruption in the church. And I'm actually, I'm going to be shooting season two with them in a few days. We're going to start that.

• 2:46:59Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 2:47:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. They also have zero chill about child abuse in the name of Jesus. So that's cool. I always love that. But so we figured out that the camp industry nationally in the US, it's a, it's an American tradition. I don't know if it was where you grew up, but in my circles, like everyone went to summer camp. And some of them are just a couple of weeks, some of them are a month long. And it's a $70 billion industry. About 26 million people are involved in summer camps every year in the US. And I think there's so many positives to that, right? It's like, get your kids off their devices and have them meet new friends from other places.

• 2:47:45Speaker 02

  Get out in nature, like all of that is good stuff, right? But for so long, parents have not asked questions. And that's why I wanted to talk about this, because you started this conversation about what do parents need to know? And this is so important for parents to know, that the camp industry is completely underregulated and some states completely unregulated. So 15 states don't even require criminal background checks on summer camp stuff. Okay, that's not even how you catch the bad guys. That's just a baseline, right? To make sure you're not hiring people with a record. Hello?

• 2:48:17Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, I was like, how can you?

• 2:48:20Speaker 02

  It's common sense.

• 2:48:20Shawn Ryan?

  How can you run a business around children and not run a background check?

• 2:48:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so what I've found is unless camps are regulated and there's laws that force that, they don't because they are saving cost and-

• 2:48:32Shawn Ryan?

  That's what I was just, so they are looking for the lowest common denominator to watch your kids.

• 2:48:37Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 2:48:38Shawn Ryan?

  The person that will take the least of amount of payment. They don't give a fuck.

• 2:48:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:48:44Shawn Ryan?

  It's just a, it's just a body.

• 2:48:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and a lot of these camps I mentioned earlier are for-profit camps. And so they see kids as a commodity, right? They want to recruit as many campers as possible and keep costs as low as possible. And that's their family business.

• 2:48:58Shawn Ryan?

  Man, doesn't anybody like

• 2:49:02Shawn Ryan?

  advertise the quality of the counselors that they hire or any of that shit? I mean,

• 2:49:09Speaker 02

  So, one would think that they would want to be, um, you know, hold a high standard and be an example of proper hiring practices and, um, you know, going above and beyond what the state would require with a licensure process. But that is just objectively not the case. So, 15 states don't require even baseline measures like a criminal background check.

• 2:49:35Speaker 02

  And nine states don't require day camps to be licensed. Eight states don't require residential camps to be licensed. And in a lot of states, even where they are required to be licensed, if you're faith-based, you're exempt from that licensure process. And so that makes me unhappy as a Christian that faith-based is held to a lesser standard. It's like, shouldn't Christians be operating with a higher ethical standard and more excellence? But a lot of these Christian camps, especially in Missouri, if you're a faith-based camp, you're exempt from the licensure process. And that was true in Texas until this year, uh, 2025, sorry.

• 2:50:10Shawn Ryan?

  So it attracts criminals.

• 2:50:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's a-

• 2:50:13Shawn Ryan?

  Because, because there is no-

• 2:50:16Speaker 02

  It is a-

• 2:50:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Now, this isn't true of every camp, but parents need to beware of the regulatory environment with summer camps, so they can ask the right questions and decide if they want their children to be stewarded by these people that are oftentimes running for-profit businesses, or if it's a faith-based camp, they're held to no standard in the name of freedom of religion, which I'm all about. But when it comes to kids, safety first. So.

• 2:50:46Shawn Ryan?

  Do you send your kids to a camp?

• 2:50:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:50:48Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't think, I mean, I would.

• 2:50:50Speaker 02

  After what my family's been through and after what I've researched, again, I've had to Aaron Brockovich all of this, like, no one's doing this work.

• 2:50:56Shawn Ryan?

  Are there any good camps?

• 2:50:59Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:51:00Shawn Ryan?

  Can you name any?

• 2:51:04Shawn Ryan?

  Outward Bound. Have you heard of that one?

• 2:51:07Speaker 02

  Which one?

• 2:51:07Shawn Ryan?

  Outward Bound? I think it's Outward Bound. Homeward Bound?

• 2:51:11Speaker 02

  My husband did not. So you have, like, summer camps, and then you have programs like that that are a little bit different than a traditional summer camp. And then you have the troubled teen industry programs. And that's a residential program for a teen that, like, maybe a very conservative parent catches their kid smoking marijuana, and they freak out and they're like, you're a troubled teen, you have to go to this program. They get kidnapped in the middle of the night, show up at this troubled teen program, behavioral program. This is Paris Hilton's story. I don't know if you've heard about any of this. She got the Stop Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act passed by Congress because of her experience.

• 2:51:48Shawn Ryan?

  Paris Hilton?

• 2:51:49Speaker 02

  Paris Hilton. Mm-hmm. And then there's a nonprofit called Unsilenced, and they have a database of troubled teen programs that have allegations against them. So.

• 2:51:58Shawn Ryan?

  Did you just say Paris Hilton got something passed about, what, I'm, what?

• 2:52:03Speaker 02

  I know. Paris Hilton. Stop Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act. And she and other survivors of the troubled teen industry rallied together to get Congress to approve this act.

• 2:52:15Shawn Ryan?

  Was she sexually abused?

• 2:52:17Speaker 02

  She was abused at a troubled teen program in Utah.

• 2:52:21Shawn Ryan?

  No shit, we need to get her.

• 2:52:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, she's really impressive, really smart. But then all of these other survivors have also coalesced around this and Paris was willing to put her name on it and they got it passed.

• 2:52:35Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:52:37Speaker 02

  So you have the troubled teen programs, there's actually a Netflix show called The Program about this as well. The nonprofit Unsilenced is the one that has the database of these residential programs for troubled teens. So like that Agape behavioral, Agape boarding school I mentioned earlier that moved from Washington State to Missouri to be less regulated, they would be in that database. There's active litigation against one of those programs called Shelterwood, that was actually a Joe White affiliated troubled teen program.

• 2:53:09Speaker 02

  So yeah, the summer camp industry, the troubled teen thing, a lot of times kids will go to summer camp, they're troubled, and so then Joe White or someone at the camp might recommend they go to a behavioral school or behavioral program. And what's been uncovered recently, and thanks to people like Paris Hilton willing to put her name on it, it's, there's been more awareness around that. With your traditional American summer camp, like these sleepaway camps, huge industry in the hill country in Texas. And being from Dallas, I had a lot of friends that went to Camp Longhorn, Camp Mystic, a ton to Canacuck of course too, but these are also 100 year old camps in the hill country

• 2:53:52Speaker 02

  and they're in Kerr County and that's like the county's industry is a lot of it revolves around these camps because it brings in tourism. So my life changed again on July 4th of 2025 when I was at the beach with my family and my sorority sister's group text started blowing up. And it was like flash flooding in the hill country. I'm like, so I'm, I'm up in the Northeast, I'm like, why are you giving me weather updates? And then that escalated into Lila's missing, one of my sorority sister's daughters. And then I turn on the news, I mean, we're all getting ready for the 4th of July parade.

• 2:54:35Speaker 02

  And then I keep getting texts, there's a text I got of a cabin floating down the river with looked like 50 kids in it.

• 2:54:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, and um, and then it quickly escalated from Lila's missing to Lila's dead. And all these girls are missing.

• 2:54:59Speaker 02

  And so, like, I'm with my three kids and my family, we like, are sitting at the Fourth of July Parade as all of this is like coming through on my phone. And I'm like, oh no, I need to reach out to a Navy SEAL friend I know that's based in Austin, see if they're on it. Like, what is going on? And, um, you know, fast forward, 27 girls died at Camp Mystic during the flash floods in the whole country on July 4th, and it was completely preventable.

• 2:55:29Speaker 02

  So then, I know this because I'm camp negligence girl at this point, from everything I've uncovered about Keanu Kuck and the camp industry. The American Camps Association has been around for 115 years, and they're the main accreditation entity for the industry.

• 2:55:45Speaker 02

  There are also some smaller camp organizations that lobby for mostly exemptions and waivers, not child protection. So my head immediately goes to, and it's horrible to say this, but I just know what I know, and like, these girls aren't missing, they're dead. And it's not, it's the camp's fault, and it's negligence. Like, just, you know, the pattern is there.

• 2:56:12Speaker 02

  I've also, I've been in touch with a dad from California, whose daughter drowned at a day camp because the American Red Cross was fraudulently accrediting lifeguards. That came out in a Washington Post article. There's just, at every turn, the camp industry has had failures, and they've had 115 years to do better. But here we are with 19 suicides affiliated with the Keanu Kuck situation. So Trey's not the only one that's died by suicide. And then you have these 27 eight-year-old girls, eight to 10-year-old girls, who died because the camp didn't have an evacuation plan. In fact, their evacuation

• 2:56:54Speaker 02

  plan was to shelter in place. That's not an evacuation plan. What are you trained on, and what were you trained, like, when there's flash flooding, what do you do?

• 2:57:04Speaker 02

  Get to higher ground.

• 2:57:04Shawn Ryan?

  Higher ground.

• 2:57:05Speaker 02

  Get to higher ground, not rocket science. They left the eight-year-old babies in the flood and they got swept away between 1 and 7 a.m. on the morning of July 4th. Three of them were my friend's daughters.

• 2:57:23Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 2:57:26Speaker 02

  I wear these bracelets in their honor. Uh, they're now known as the Heavens 27.

• 2:57:34Speaker 02

  And, um,

• 2:57:37Speaker 02

  one of them especially, uh, hit close to home because, uh,

• 2:57:45Speaker 02

  my sorority sister Caitlin, like, we lived together in the catharsis. We studied abroad in London during college. And, uh, she has three girls and Lila was the oldest. And I couldn't stay at the beach while this was happening, right? So our whole family, we leave, we come back to Dallas, we go to the service, uh, to Lila's funeral memorial service and, um, I go hug my friend and I'm like, this wasn't your fault. She went to Mystic too, so she, I knew she was gonna blame herself.

• 2:58:17Speaker 02

  And I was like,

• 2:58:20Speaker 02

  these camps, I, I'm here if you ever wanna talk about

• 2:58:27Speaker 02

  this whenever you're ready. And, um, I was like, I'm not gonna be the friend that brings you a lasagna or like a little note with flowers. But if you want to talk about camp reform, I'm here for it. And she goes, oh, I know exactly what I'm calling you for. And I was like, I'm pissed. She was like, I'm so pissed. I was like, yeah, I'm here. Then I went and talked to the dad and, uh, he gave me the biggest hug and he was like, I'm sorry. I'm like, why are you saying you're sorry to me at your daughter's memorial service? He's like, I had no idea what you've been going through the last five years, like with Trey and like, these camps, man. I'm like, yeah. I was like, I'm here when you're ready to tackle these issues. Uh, he was like, I'm gonna have to take action or I won't survive this.

• 2:59:12Speaker 02

  Cause I've lost a brother and that was hard enough. I can't imagine losing a child. Especially when they just needed to walk a hundred feet that way and they'd be alive. But the camp leadership told them to stay in place.

• 2:59:30Shawn Ryan?

  Oh my gosh, man.

• 2:59:33Speaker 02

  And there's still one camper missing. And her name is Seal Stewart.

• 2:59:38Speaker 02

  And she's from Austin and um.

• 2:59:43Speaker 02

  They haven't found her.

• 2:59:45Speaker 02

  Um.

• 2:59:48Speaker 02

  They are still looking for Seal. The the search is very active and ongoing. Um. There were some Navy SEALs early on who jumped in to help search. And they were wearing these bracelets, SEALs for Seal. And the first responders were amazing. People like that who just wanted to help showed up, started diving, recovering bodies. Um, now the search is under the purview of Captain Miller, former Green Beret. He's with the Texas Rangers now and he's also a combat veteran. He's from there. He knows that river inside and out. You couldn't have someone better on paper to be searching for Seal and there's another man that's still missing.

• 3:00:33Speaker 02

  Um, but Blake and Caitlin Lyle's parents, they called me a few weeks later after the service and they were like, we're ready. I thought it would be way down the road. Like that they would just hunker down, grieve, raise their other two daughters. And they were ready to fight.

• 3:00:57Speaker 02

  So I took a call with them and they're like, how did you pass Trey's law? How do we go about reforming the camp industry? And this was in the summer, so you know, I mentioned Texas only meets every other year, their legislature. So there are things called a special session. If something doesn't get resolved during the legislative, the regular legislative session, the governor can call a special session. And at this point, when I'm talking to my friends, um, there is a special session happening, but the Democrats have walked out over redistricting. So like, nothing's happening in Austin.

• 3:01:38Speaker 02

  And because that stalled out, there's the likelihood that the governor was going to call a second special session. And I got in touch with my lobbying team who helped me pass Trey's law. And one of them was, I mean, everyone's traveling in the summer, right? So I was like trying to run down this team. And one was in London, one was in Italy. And then there was someone available in Austin, and he actually knew Lila's dad Blake. And got in touch with him. Then Karen Rove, who's married to Karl Rove, she's a lobbyist in Austin. And then another victim, their daughter was a counselor that went down with those girls.

• 3:02:22Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 3:02:24Speaker 02

  There are two counselors that we, Chloe and Catherine, we call heroes because they could have left and saved themselves, but they went down with those girls.

• 3:02:32Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 3:02:34Speaker 02

  And they were both going to UT in the fall. One was going to be pre-med, one was going to be a special education teacher. And they stayed with those girls till the end. And they followed orders, which were stay in place. And it killed them all. And anyway, so Chloe's dad, Chloe being one of the counselors, and Blake, my friend's husband, Lila's dad. After I told them, like, here's some of the possibilities, we rallied the troops, like the lobbyists we all knew in our group. There was one girl in Birmingham who died in the flood, Sarah Marsh.

• 3:03:16Speaker 02

  That's why we're bringing camp safety bills to Alabama next. Along, I called my sponsors for Trey's law. Representative David Faulkner in Alabama represents Sarah Marsh's district, and he's going to carry this camp safety reform legislation for us in Alabama. I also have one of my friends in Missouri who has been House Judiciary Chair during this whole journey for me with Trey's Law and statute of limitations reform in Missouri. She's going to sponsor camp safety reform in Missouri. And

• 3:03:45Speaker 02

  Because this just touched everyone at the deepest. Anyone who's a parent can't fathom losing a child, period. But under these circumstances, when it was so preventable, like if that cabin had had a ladder to get on the roof, they'd be alive. If there had been any redundancy in the internet connection, they could be. There's no communication. There were three adults trying to rescue hundreds of girls in that flash flood, and they refused to evacuate them, even after 1:15 a.m. It was like life threatening flash floods. A counselor was able to call 911 at like 3:30 ish. The camp didn't call until 7:30 and said, we're missing between 20 and 40 girls.

• 3:04:27Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, my gosh, man.

• 3:04:29Speaker 02

  Horrible. So especially in Texas, this was all over the news. But I think it was all over the news everywhere. Did you hear about this? Hill Country Flood?

• 3:04:39Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 3:04:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. So like

• 3:04:40Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody heard about it.

• 3:04:41Speaker 02

  Everybody heard about this. And these parents, in their acute raw grief, came to the consensus that they don't want this to happen to anyone else, any other family. No other family should have to go through this. We don't want any other children. We don't want children going to camp next summer without some big changes. So what ended up happening is the second special session got called. These families, myself, our lobbying team, we went down to Austin. We met with the big three, the Lieutenant Governor, the Speaker of the House and the Governor.

• 3:05:22Speaker 02

  They held photos of their daughters and talked about them and what bright lights they were and what kind of girls they were. And, um, you know, still in shock. I mean, have you, you probably have with your background, but seen someone tremor from trauma. It's just like so, like some moms just like trembling with the trauma and the shock and grief of their daughters not, um, not being with them anymore. Those survivors of that flash flood in the whole country traumatized, left in Blackhawks. They're like, we sent our daughter to camp and they left in. We didn't send them to a war zone.

• 3:06:08Speaker 02

  And so much trauma. And that was the only camp that lost life.

• 3:06:14Shawn Ryan?

  That's the only camp?

• 3:06:17Speaker 02

  The others had evacuation plans or got lucky. So, all these lawsuits have dropped now claiming negligence, gross negligence, wrongful death. And, um, and now, I wish I weren't alone in this. I mean, I felt alone in this fight. Not just the Canacook fight, but realizing this goes well beyond Canacook. Like camps in general are so unregulated and unsafe and they don't prioritize. They prioritize low insurance premiums, profits. You know, getting their property taxes down. It's just like all the things you would think of to run a normal business.

• 3:07:01Speaker 02

  But this is kids and their lives. So you need to go a step further in protecting people's most precious, their children, right? And in the case of Mystic, none of that happened. These 27 babies died, the Heavens 27. And those parents showed up and testified and passed the Heavens 27 Camp Safety Act and the Youth Camper Act. So that's starting next summer, not waiting on the 2027 legislative cycle, which means that wouldn't be implemented till 2028. So it had to happen during that special for 2026 to be any different than this year.

• 3:07:41Speaker 02

  So now in Texas, it is not up to human error anymore or discretion. You evacuate. No more sleeping babies in a floodway or floodplain. You have walkie talkies. You have things so you can communicate among the cabins in a situation like that. And what we've learned is not only was Camp Mystic not prepared for a flood, even though it's called Flash Flood Alley and it's flooded multiple times before, to the point where I've had alumni tell me that they remember when it flooded and the staff would bring them breakfast in a kayak. Like they knew, they know this floods. But, yeah, they, uh...

• 3:08:24Speaker 02

  They lost these 27 campers because they refused to evacuate them. Chloe and Catherine went by the documented orders, stay in place, we'll come get you. And um, but now the camps in Texas are required to be licensed, no more waivers, no more exemptions. So that's huge because only 300 something camps were previously licensed. And there's over a thousand camps in Texas. Um, they're required now to have a database on the website uh for the state of Texas about which camps have been licensed. And um, just more transparency, right? So parents can make their own decisions about where they want to send their kids. Um, and yeah, a whole bunch of other stuff too.

• 3:09:09Speaker 02

  That makes camp safer for kids immediately in Texas. That'll go into, that's in effect.

• 3:09:14Shawn Ryan?

  Man, nice work.

• 3:09:16Speaker 02

  Very proud of these families who um, I now consider dear friends, but I wish I were, you know? I'm not alone in this fight anymore, but I wish I were. I wish it didn't have to be this way. There's an army of parents who are determined for their daughters to be remembered, for their legacies to matter. Not just their lives, but in their loss, how do we prevent that? And um, I'm here for it. Um, I'd like to read their names if that's okay.

• 3:09:45Shawn Ryan?

  Absolutely.

• 3:09:46Speaker 02

  Because the camp hasn't acknowledged their names in any communications.

• 3:09:49Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 3:09:51Speaker 02

  And they've announced their reopening. And one camper's still missing.

• 3:09:59Speaker 02

  Maybe recover all the bodies of your dead campers from last season before you reopen summer 2026.

• 3:10:08Shawn Ryan?

  Jeez.

• 3:10:10Speaker 02

  It's actually one of the girls' birthdays today.

• 3:10:16Speaker 02

  And

• 3:10:20Speaker 02

  I always hated it when people would say, sorry for your loss, because with Trey, it's like,

• 3:10:26Speaker 02

  my loss, it's the loss to the world, right? And that's how I feel with these girls too. It's not just their family's personal loss. This is, like I mentioned, future special ed teacher, studying to be a doctor. Some of them wanted to be veterinarians when they grew up, or artists. This is what we've lost.

• 3:10:46Speaker 02

  Mary Grace Baker, Margaret Bellows, Lila Bonner, Chloe Childress, Molly DeWitt, Lucy Dillon, Catherine Ferruzzo, Ellen Gutton, Hadley Hannah, Virginia Hollis, Janie Hunt, Mary Kate Jacoby, Laney Landry, Hannah Lawrence, Rebecca Lawrence, twins,

• 3:11:15Speaker 02

  Kellyanne Lidle, Sarah Marsh, Lenny McCown, who would be turning nine today, Blakely McCrory, Wyn Naylor, Eloise Lulu Peck, Abby Poehl, Margaret Shidi, Renee Schmaestra, Mary Stevens, Seal Stewart, and Greta Toronzo.

• 3:11:41Speaker 02

  Those are the Heavens 27.

• 3:11:45Speaker 02

  And they should still be here. Their deaths were completely preventable.

• 3:11:53Speaker 02

  So if that's not a wake-up call to parents, to the camp industry, that we need to do better, I don't know what else it's going to take.

• 3:12:06Speaker 02

  We launched what's called the Campaign for Camp Safety. And this is now under the No More Victims Alliance. So, you know, it's all camp negligence, right? Trey's law can't put victims under NDAs. I mean, that camp I mentioned that had the cabin floating down the river, they've had a huge child sexual abuse problem.

• 3:12:31Speaker 02

  Camp Stewart, the Brothers, Camp Mystics, all girls. Camp Stewart's a boys camp. They, I got a call from a victim's mom because they wanted to put her son under an NDA.

• 3:12:43Speaker 02

  I have a whole database of these camps that have child sexual abuse problems. And I never thought, oh, as a mom, I should also ask, do you sleep eight-year-olds in a floodway?

• 3:12:56Speaker 02

  And so I started BeforeYouGoToCamp.com.

• 3:13:02Speaker 02

  And it's for parents to know how to vet these organizations. And it started out as just questions to ask to understand, do they have appropriate child sexual abuse prevention measures in place? If they respond, we use the Canuck Child Protection Plan, big red flag. We are going to add different categories to this BeforeYouGoToCamp.com to include these physical safety measures. Because Camp Mystic wasn't prepared for an active shooter. I mean, someone could have creeped up on those girls in a canoe on the river. No plans for that kind of stuff either. But you know what's been heartbreaking is for these parents to realize that they just assumed that the same safeguarding measures in place at schools

• 3:13:47Speaker 02

  or your local YMCA. I mean, I'm looking around this room, you know, there's exit signs, there's fire sprinklers. A lot of schools have carbon monoxide detectors, like at camps. And that, I mean, when we were drafting these bills-

• 3:14:01Shawn Ryan?

  We put blast film on every window and we all carry-

• 3:14:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:14:04Shawn Ryan?

  -a gun here. We don't fuck around with this stuff.

• 3:14:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the only people that showed up for those girls were the camp owner, he also died.

• 3:14:17Speaker 02

  And at first, everyone was like, he's a hero, he died with those girls. And like, he died in a ship he built, but had holes in it.

• 3:14:30Speaker 02

  But there's that guy, his son, and the night watchman. Those were the only three adults around when these girls needed to be evacuated. And they waited too late. And there's a, there's a verse in Ezekiel that one of the dads read at the state senate hearing. It's really powerful.

• 3:14:52Shawn Ryan?

  This place is opening up again already and they

• 3:14:55Speaker 02

  Oh, they're, yeah.

• 3:14:55Shawn Ryan?

  Found the bodies.

• 3:14:56Speaker 02

  Correct. Hmm.

• 3:15:00Shawn Ryan?

  Who owns it?

• 3:15:02Speaker 02

  It's a for-profit family business owned by the Eastlands.

• 3:15:06Shawn Ryan?

  The Eastlands?

• 3:15:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Dick Eastland, who passed away in the flood, and his wife Tweety.

• 3:15:16Speaker 02

  Tweety and Dick. Tweet, yeah, Tweety and Dick. And then their kids help run it with them. So this is what Ezekiel 33:6 says, "But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people, and the sword comes and takes someone's life, that person's life will be taken because of their sin, but I will hold the watchman accountable for their blood."

• 3:15:43Speaker 02

  And I think that is all of our charge as the responsible adults in the room, to be the watchman and to protect kids, whether that's guarding their innocence from sexual abuse and predators, or their physical safety. You evacuate children, go to higher ground when there is a life-threatening flash flood warning, and you know how that river floods.

• 3:16:08Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, man.

• 3:16:12Shawn Ryan?

  It's just...

• 3:16:16Speaker 02

  So the campaign for camp safety is now focused on research. We're doing a national mapping exercise of what states have the worst lack of regulation versus like what's a model state, for example. So research and then advocacy, like passing the laws I mentioned, and then a safe summers fund. So to your question, like, are there good camps? Yes, like, there are some camps that do ama- like, think about camps for disabled children, like... It's an opportunity for them to find people they relate with. Um, oftentimes the parents come with the kids to those camps, but um, there are some church camps like they.

• 3:16:54Shawn Ryan?

  I mean shit, all camps are supposed to be good. And I mean, you, you say that like, oh yeah, I want to spend my kid with special needs there. Do I? Or is there some sick fuck there that's got a fetish for special needs kids?

• 3:17:08Speaker 02

  Well, yeah. And so one of my good friends, um, Catherine Wolf, she runs a camp in Alabama called Hope Heals. Um, her first book was Hope Heals. She suffered a massive stroke and uh, half of her face is paralyzed. She's in a wheelchair. Um, and for her 40th birthday, I gave her $40,000 personally to put a child sexual abuse prevention plan in place because some of those kids are nonverbal. You would, I mean, how are you gonna know? And um, she was so grateful and, and they'd already done something, her husband's an attorney, like they'd already done a lot to um, keep kids safe at that camp, knowing they're extra vulnerable, that population. But um, the parents go with the kids to that camp, which is neat too, because

• 3:17:51Speaker 02

  parents who are in a position of raising a child with special needs, they have camaraderie, right? And encouragement in that community. Um, and so really grateful for Catherine Wolf and what she, I think what they've done at Hope Heals Camp, bringing in some consultants, some real subject matter experts to make sure that these kids are safe there. That's so important. Um, she's also the friend, I met her a month after Trey died. And um, she was in her wheelchair. I'd never heard of her, met her before and was with a mutual friend, uh, something in South Carolina and she grabbed my hand and um, she is like, what are you going through? And I was like, I just lost my brother to suicide a month ago.

• 3:18:33Speaker 02

  And uh, she, in her eye that works, she like, one tear came down her eye. And she was like, I just want you to know that there are treasures in the darkness. Isaiah tells us that there are treasures in the darkness. I didn't really know what she meant by that in that moment.

• 3:18:53Speaker 02

  Um, but as I've been through this grief journey and met so many other grieving people, I understand it now. Like, I would not be connected to a lot of these people I consider now some of my closest friends if we hadn't both endured the darkness. Like, there are treasures in the darkness.

• 3:19:16Speaker 02

  You know, would we all trade it to, in their case, have their daughters back for me to have my brother back? Of course. Um, but that's why I read the Serenity Prayer, because, um, you know, it, it talks about being reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy in the next. Like, it's not all hunky-dory here on earth.

• 3:19:38Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:19:38Speaker 02

  And, um, we can find those treasures in the darkness, though, those glimmers of hope, those signs.

• 3:19:45Speaker 02

  And I, I brought this book to share because a lot of the families...

• 3:19:50Shawn Ryan?

  I just want to say something real quick. You know, when we're talking about these camps and like,

• 3:19:56Shawn Ryan?

  this isn't just camps. This is schools, stadiums, malls, venues, every, churches, everything.

• 3:20:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:20:07Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, we've got, we have an active shooter pro, uh, uh, program, an active shooter problem in this country. Every fucking school that gets hit, "Oh shit, we didn't think it was gonna happen. We didn't want to put the fucking blast film on the windows. We didn't want to put in a security system. We didn't want to pay for a fucking security guard. We didn't even want to get our lazy asses up and lock the fucking door."

• 3:20:32Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:20:34Speaker 02

  And then in your...

• 3:20:34Shawn Ryan?

  And how many fucking kids are dead from active shooters because nobody did, it's not gonna happen to us?

• 3:20:41Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:20:42Shawn Ryan?

  Happened right here, Covenant.

• 3:20:45Speaker 02

  Well...

• 3:20:46Shawn Ryan?

  We yanked our kids out of school. I mean, it's just, it's just, it's like, man, what the fuck is it gonna take for you motherfuckers to take this shit seriously? Put the blast film on the windows, lock the fucking doors, get a security guard, put a fucking drone up over the fucking school when Charlie Kirk is fucking talking?

• 3:21:07Shawn Ryan?

  Like, what the fuck, man?

• 3:21:10Speaker 02

  Common sense.

• 3:21:11Shawn Ryan?

  What the fuck? Have the kids go up the hill when the fucking flood comes.

• 3:21:17Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah, and you're exactly.

• 3:21:18Shawn Ryan?

  Like, what, what, what is, what the fuck is happening, man?

• 3:21:22Speaker 02

  So it's a cross.

• 3:21:22Shawn Ryan?

  This country is perishing fast.

• 3:21:28Speaker 02

  The, the covenant shooting was personal to me too, because the senior pastor of that church, his daughter, Hallie, died in that shooting. And, um, he, he married my husband and me. He led my husband to Christ in college.

• 3:21:45Shawn Ryan?

  Our nanny went to church there.

• 3:21:49Speaker 02

  Well, you helped on the backside, right? You like secured the, yeah, thank you.

• 3:21:54Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't, whoa, I didn't do much. I went there and I did a free security assessment after it happened. That was, that was it.

• 3:22:02Speaker 02

  And it's the after it happened that's so devastating. So how do, you know, circling back to what we talked about earlier, it's like, how do we go upstream to prevention? And value prevention and put resources towards prevention? The legislative process is so reactive.

• 3:22:20Shawn Ryan?

  You do what you're doing, or you homeschool your fucking kid and take charge?

• 3:22:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22:27Shawn Ryan?

  That's what you do.

• 3:22:28Speaker 02

  So.

• 3:22:29Shawn Ryan?

  You yank your kids out of the system because the fucking system doesn't work.

• 3:22:33Speaker 02

  In Texas this last year, another big, uh, win for kids is that, uh, Representative Mitch Little, who I mentioned earlier, helped us with the drafting on Trey's law, uh, he passed a bill that removed, uh, sovereign immunity from public schools. Because that's a thing where schools cannot be, public schools cannot be sued for child sexual abuse.

• 3:22:56Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 3:22:57Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 3:22:58Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 3:23:00Speaker 02

  So that just changed in Texas and that needs to be changed in every state. I can only tackle so much at once and it's statute of.

• 3:23:06Shawn Ryan?

  Can you say that again? If your kid is sexually molested in a public school, you have no recourse to fucking sue.

• 3:23:14Speaker 02

  You can.

• 3:23:14Shawn Ryan?

  Let that shit sink in.

• 3:23:16Speaker 02

  You can sue the perpetrator, but not the school. Until now, in Texas, you can sue, you can hold accountable everyone that was involved, including the institution.

• 3:23:26Shawn Ryan?

  Is this involved with the Texas gun experience?

• 3:23:30Speaker 02

  So like, I went to shoot with this sweet guy named Chandler. I say sweet.

• 3:23:34Shawn Ryan?

  Sorry, I gotta bring some humor into this.

• 3:23:37Speaker 02

  You and me both. Um, but yeah, I was shooting and he was like, okay, you've done this before. He's like, what do you do? And I was like, oh, I hunt pedophiles, not with guns, with the law. He's like, what?

• 3:23:56Speaker 02

  But changing laws is how we get ahead of this.

• 3:23:59Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:00Speaker 02

  And, um, you know, the heavens 27, the camp safety acts that have been passed in Texas, we're gonna have a ripple effect of that across the country. But I want to go back to what you said about this isn't just camps. This is youth-serving organizations, all of them. And, um, if I could tell the audience, or, you know, you're not asking, but I'm gonna just say, three things that could change overnight and make a huge difference. It would be getting rid of NDAs that we've discussed. The statute of limitations so that, uh, victims have more time to sue on their own terms and in their own time. So the, so the justice system doesn't do more harm on top of the harm that's already occurred.

• 3:24:42Speaker 02

  And then, um, insurance companies requiring subject matter, expert base, like best practices in child sexual abuse prevention, or child safeguarding in general, all hazard, before they insure that organization. Because these organizations aren't gonna run without insurance. And so that is a real root issue here, is the insurance companies. Stop fighting me, insurance lobbyists. Get on the side of good and let's prevent these nuclear settlements you're so afraid of happening if, uh, an organization that you insure gets hit with a lawsuit. Prevent the lawsuit from ever being necessary.

• 3:25:26Speaker 02

  Insurance could pull that lever overnight, it would change the game. It's not rocket science.

• 3:25:35Speaker 02

  And then parents, consumer pressure would be another one I'd add, actually. So the reason Canacook's still in business, besides all of the legalities I've gone over, just the lack of law enforcement, statute limitations.

• 3:25:50Speaker 02

  Is parents still send their kids there? The reason Camp Mystics reopening, parents will still send their kids there.

• 3:25:59Speaker 02

  That is so, I mean, I call them sheeple.

• 3:26:03Shawn Ryan?

  There's a lot of them.

• 3:26:05Speaker 02

  Uh huh. And there is the cult aspect to some of these camps too, where it's like, oh, well, my grandma went there and my, you know, and so it becomes this kind of dynastical camp cult. And kids aren't safe. Again, it's been 115 years since the American Camps Association like started. They've had 115 years to get this right. When they last updated their accreditation measures in, I think it was like 2019, it didn't include anything about child sexual abuse prevention.

• 3:26:35Speaker 02

  So either they're complicit in the problem and have an issue themselves,

• 3:26:41Speaker 02

  or they're so naive that they don't know this problem exists. How do you live in this world and not know this problem exists?

• 3:26:47Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody knows this problem exists.

• 3:26:51Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 3:26:53Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody knows.

• 3:26:53Speaker 02

  So if we know the problem exists, I always try to say solutions oriented. So I'm going to stay solutions oriented. We know the problem exists. So you have primary prevention, you have secondary prevention, and you have tertiary prevention. I, you know, with a bunch of other colleagues and other foundations, we've started something called the Safe Childhoods Initiative to bring more private funding into the field of child sexual abuse prevention, because people need to understand this is preventable. We just hosted a conference in Dallas at our office campus for foundations and like, you know, private funders.

• 3:27:35Speaker 02

  Even some practitioners, subject matter experts, to a symposium to talk about prevention. One of the, just to give a couple of examples that hopefully provide some glimmers of hope here. There's a doctor from Sweden. He came and talked about his, it's a injected medication for pedophiles.

• 3:28:01Shawn Ryan?

  A what?

• 3:28:02Speaker 02

  An injected medication for pedophiles that takes away their urge to act upon their desires. And he's tested this.

• 3:28:08Shawn Ryan?

  There's a medication that pedophiles can take that will take their, their.

• 3:28:15Speaker 02

  I call it like Ozempic for pedophiles. Like you get this injection every 100 days and you don't have the urge to act upon your desires. Because pedophiles come into, just, you know, research shows for the most part, you know you're a pedophile when you go through adolescence. So just like anyone comes into whatever sexual attraction they're going to have, it's when you hit puberty and adolescence. And so there's a lot of juvenile offenders. I mean, a lot of child sexual abuse is peer on peer. So it's not just about creepy adults. First of all, they usually don't come off as creepy. I mean, there certainly is that, but it's usually someone the kid knows, loves and trusts. It's not stranger danger, like we were talking the 50s.

• 3:28:59Speaker 02

  But someone the kid knows, loves and trusts, a lot of it is familial, which is sick.

• 3:29:05Speaker 02

  Especially when you get into the trafficking. So not all child sexual abuse is trafficking, but all trafficking is child sexual abuse, right? When you get into the trafficking statistics, so much of it is familial within the family.

• 3:29:21Speaker 02

  But yeah, this injection for pedophiles, it does something in the brain that reduces the urge to act on those desires, on your sexual attraction to children.

• 3:29:32Shawn Ryan?

  Does it actually work on sexual attraction to children? Or is it just sex drive in general?

• 3:29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I asked that and it's it's sex drive, which is sexual attraction to children in a pedophile. Like, they don't have a sex drive.

• 3:29:47Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:29:48Speaker 02

  It's not their sex drive.

• 3:29:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:29:50Speaker 02

  And it's criminal. And if you can, if you can intervene early enough,

• 3:29:58Speaker 02

  then they don't act on their urges. So this trial started with 500 pedophiles, then 5,000. Now they're scaling it and in talks to bring it to the US. And, you know, my head went when I first heard this presentation in Sweden. Her Majesty Queen Sylvia invited eight foundations to her palace, December 2024. We were one of eight foundations invited because we're one of eight foundations that funds this issue of child sexual abuse prevention at the seven-figure level and above. Not a lot of us. Only about 150 million in private funding goes towards child sexual abuse prevention globally on an annual basis.

• 3:30:40Shawn Ryan?

  Globally?

• 3:30:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. So how are we going to make a dent in this? With the lack of private funding? Because public dollars follow private funding. For the most part. And so what we do at the Phillips Foundation is we like to incubate innovative or new concepts, provide the proof of concept to then take it to the state and say, this works. Look, it'll actually save taxpayer dollars if you scale this versus ignoring the issue. And that's worked with a lot of our initiatives through our foundation. That's an approach we take. We're not a traditional foundation.

• 3:31:22Speaker 02

  But we got summoned by the Queen to the palace in Stockholm. She had started the World Childhood Foundation 25 years ago. She was really ahead of her time. On just addressing child sexual abuse as a problem. Um, and her daughter, um, Princess Madeline, um, is about to, because Queen Sylvia is now in her eighties. She's passing the torch to Princess Madeline. He was really amazing. She was so nice, so chill. She just moved back to Stockholm from, um, Florida with her kids and she's going to take this on for her, you know, carry the legacy on. So we, we all convened in Stockholm. Um, we heard from this doctor I mentioned, we heard from a few other, uh, people that study pedophiles

• 3:32:06Speaker 02

  and have some promising interventions and, um, then we grew the group from those eight foundations to like 15 foundations to what we just hosted in Dallas. And then there was another one, maybe 30 in Dallas, it was like 50. Um, and so we're trying to grow interest in the private funding because, you know, as we were saying, everyone will tell you they care about this issue. But we vote with our dollars, right? You know someone's priorities by where they're spending their time, money, time, treasure, talent. And, um, there are just not a lot of money flowing into this issue. Anti-trafficking, yes, more so. Child sexual abuse prevention, not so much.

• 3:32:50Speaker 02

  Reacting to child sexual abuse, you know, children advocacy centers get a lot of funding even from the state. I think state of Texas gets something like 80 million in appropriations to their children advocacy centers from the state. Prevention, however, that number I mentioned, 150 million.

• 3:33:06Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, man.

• 3:33:07Speaker 02

  So we need to take this issue from millions to billions. Not that money alone can solve it, but it can fund these promising innovations so that we make a dent in this issue.

• 3:33:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:33:20Speaker 02

  But it also requires a culture shift where parents are asking the right questions of their kid's school, of wherever they're playing sports. I, you know, I have a P I on retainer and, you know, not everyone can do that. But before my kids are coached by anyone, I run a background check.

• 3:33:41Speaker 02

  Sad to say,

• 3:33:43Speaker 02

  we've, uh, not proceeded with certain people because they don't pass the criminal background check. But everyone else in Dallas thinks this guy hung them in.

• 3:33:55Speaker 02

  And I'm thankful.

• 3:33:58Shawn Ryan?

  Man, you'd think this would just be common sense these days. You don't have to have a P I on retainer to get a background check.

• 3:34:06Speaker 02

  Well, right. I mean, we like to dig a little deeper beyond a background check because sometime, you know, the, um, your typical criminal background check isn't going to do a sweep of their social media. And what are they posting? And what are the patterns? Like, uh, one of the concepts I was presented at symposium is a database for gray area perpetrators. So this is someone who maybe had red flag behavior, but it didn't rise to criminal. So it's not going to show up on a background check. Um, but there are conversations around these databases where someone is terminated due to red flag behavior or breach of policy related to child sexual abuse. Um, so like maybe they're in the girls locker room and shouldn't be, um.

• 3:34:51Speaker 02

  They're not going to get arrested for that, but they're going to get terminated for a violation of policy. And I want to check that database. I want to check someone's name against that database. Cause it goes way beyond just like a criminal background check.

• 3:35:02Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:35:03Speaker 02

  So, you know, those are the things we're working on and I want to leave your audience with some hope and also a call to action. There is hope, but it takes action. It takes advocacy. It takes dollars. And, uh, we're putting together also through the Safe Childhoods Initiative, a menu, if you will, of investable opportunities that can help prevent child sexual abuse.

• 3:35:24Shawn Ryan?

  It also takes just spreading the word around.

• 3:35:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:35:27Shawn Ryan?

  Getting loud about these things.

• 3:35:29Speaker 02

  We have to talk about it.

• 3:35:30Shawn Ryan?

  Because, you know, if nobody goes to Canuck, then they're not in business.

• 3:35:37Speaker 02

  That's what I mean. We vote with our dollars.

• 3:35:40Speaker 02

  Um, and that's how, you know, our family office and foundation, we invest that way through. I look at it as a lens, right? So. It's not just a program area of the foundation where we are incubating promising concepts, but we are also applying this child safeguarding lens to anyone we grant to or anything we invest in. So we just invested in this technology that helps hire substitute teachers for public schools. And I'm like, I, I think that's a great investment, but I want you to ask these additional questions about how are they screening, right? How, what are the, what's the process for vetting these substitute teachers?

• 3:36:19Shawn Ryan?

  How do these, how do these, um, how do these come to you? How do these entities or nonprofits or companies, wherever they are, how do they come to you? How do they find you?

• 3:36:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. So because early on, so I started running the Phillips Foundation when I was about 24. And so now, you know, it's been over a decade that we've put ourselves out there as interested in impact investing. So we, everything we invest in, we look at the impact because I want to take a first do no harm approach and strategy to our investments. Now, um, there's a spectrum of impact investing all the way to, you know, ETFs, but down to venture philanthropy. And there's different returns for each of those asset classes in different parts of the spectrum. But across that spectrum, we're asking questions

• 3:37:12Speaker 02

  about if you're a company or a concept that involves children, then we want to diligence you a different way than, you know, your run of the mill real estate business, let's say. So, uh, we use this lens across our portfolio for profit and on the foundation, in the foundation grant making side. Um, and so when we had this conversation with that investee I was mentioning, they were so receptive. They said, and on top of what you've asked, we're going to look into these three other things too. So like the more we talk about it and the more we elevate this conversation, uh, to match the data.

• 3:37:53Speaker 02

  One in five girls, one in seven boys globally, will be child, will be victims of child sexual abuse. So abused before the age of eighteen.

• 3:38:03Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I'll bet fifty percent of the people that have been on the show have been sexually abused as a child. It blew my fucking mind.

• 3:38:10Speaker 02

  I think it's much higher. I think it's much higher than what data shows because of the delayed disclosure issue, the shame, especially with male survivors.

• 3:38:18Shawn Ryan?

  A lot of these, a lot of them tell me off camera. But a lot of them tell me on camera. And it's, it's.

• 3:38:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I came forward about my own sexual assault when I was in college at a senate committee hearing in Texas because I'm holding all of these stories with people sharing their worst trauma with me. I was like, I need to be brave too. I need to, I'm gonna disclose what happened to me when I was twenty one. I wasn't a kid. But it was an attempted rape. I was able to escape the guy. And then I got dragged into a criminal court case around that. I didn't think anything would happen, there would be any justice, but the Dallas DA's all that started testing the rape kit backlog. Have you heard about this issue? It's a national issue.

• 3:39:10Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:39:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they start testing the rape kit backlog. This guy's DNA ties to several victims. I didn't do a DNA kit because mine was an attempted rape, not one that would require a rape kit.

• 3:39:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get a call from the senior detective for homicide, cold cases and sexual assault. I just left filming a PBS segment in North Carolina for something and I get this call, I'm like, huh? Trey had just died. I was the board chair of an anti-trafficking organization. Like, this could be one of twenty things, right? And they're like, we detained Rafa Alvarez in Houston. And I was like, what? That I have not heard that name in a minute. But the rape kits had tied his DNA to all these assaults. And they're like, will you be a witness? Like, hell, yeah, called the right girl. But in the and then I was assigned a victim advocate,

• 3:40:05Speaker 02

  which was really ironic considering I had just become a certified crime victim advocate myself because I was so far into all these disclosures, people telling me what had happened in their childhoods. And I want it, I don't know why. I just needed a piece of paper to tell me that I was certified in something like. So I just got in that and then I'm assigned one. And we went through the criminal process. Trial got postponed two times. And then the statute in Texas on that, the reason it was in statute is there's an obscure part of the statute in Texas that if a perpetrator has more than five victims, there's no statute of limitations criminally.

• 3:40:48Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, like two of the victims dropped out after trial got postponed so much that they didn't have the five victims willing to testify. So he's just outliving his life. And I came forward about that in the Senate committee hearing in Texas because I was so inspired by friends like Cindy Clemishire, who was a victim of Robert Morris, one of the largest megachurch pastors in the country out of North Texas. She was 12 when he started abusing her. And we caught him finally in Oklahoma because of a loophole in statute there where it was like a frontier law. So if you come through the state, commit a crime and leave,

• 3:41:33Speaker 02

  it told the statute of limitations doesn't apply. And so they were able to get Robert Morris through that statute in Oklahoma. And then a bunch of women were inspired by Cindy's story, came forward in Oklahoma about an Assemblies of God pastor, Joe Campbell, also from Missouri.

• 3:41:51Speaker 02

  He was running a camp in Missouri.

• 3:41:54Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 3:41:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, um, anyway, so we're at this hearing Cindy's testifying and then there's this,

• 3:42:04Speaker 02

  this young man named Joseph who was abused in the Assemblies of God. They have a college ministry called Kai Alpha. Just a cesspool for these predators and his abuse started when he was a minor, but went well into his adulthood. So after hearing our testimony, like, I refer to myself as a college kid. We call them college kids. You're a kid, like, so after Joseph testified about being abused up till like age 23, 24, we were advocating for Trey's law to apply to sexual assault survivors of any age. And that's what we got passed in Texas because college kids shouldn't be put under NDAs either when they've survived a sexual assault.

• 3:42:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:42:45Speaker 02

  Someone like Joseph definitely should have never been put under an NDA for what he survived. But he also exposed that the Assemblies of God was using NDAs at the staff level. So they'd have people come in a closed room and talk about how are we going to cover this up? Sign an NDA before we disclose what's going on. So Trey's law addresses that too. So like,

• 3:43:05Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 3:43:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it voids NDAs for employees as well who knew something about the abuse. It's all released, all, truth set free, truth set free. And in Texas, I'm so proud of Texas because what we accomplished with Trey's law in Texas is the best outcome possible for what we wanted this law to achieve.

• 3:43:28Speaker 02

  And I see signs of Trey everywhere. That's what keeps me going. And I brought this book, Signs. It's by Laura Lynn Jackson. The, a lot of the moms of the Heavens 27 read this book too and. Um, she grew up as a Christian. I also believe that people have spiritual gifts. And uh, so she, I don't think the two are in conflict with each other. I think some people are just more in touch with the other side than others. And Laurel Lynn Jackson's one of those. And so people have labeled her a top medium in the country. But her book is Secret Language of the Universe, Signs, Secret Language of the Universe. And these signs that I get from my brother and that these families are getting from their angels above are undeniable.

• 3:44:13Speaker 02

  And um, I'm so convinced that um, when people leave this earth, their spirits are still with us. And um, when Trey died, I got inundated with a bunch of notes from a lot of friends and people who loved him, who care about my family. And there were three, out of like all these hundreds of notes, three things that really stuck with me. One was from a childhood best friend's mom. She wrote in her note, uh, with a lot of other things too, but she said, "The veil between heaven and earth is so thin."

• 3:44:50Speaker 02

  And I was like, wow. I've been, I've been feeling that, you know, you kind of notice they, people sometimes say it's a butterfly, it's a cardinal, it's a rainbow. Um, the signs I've gotten from Trey aren't just generic. It's like very specific and um, and powerful and then.

• 3:45:06Shawn Ryan?

  Can you share any? I've had this happen a lot.

• 3:45:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, so an example is um, about two weeks before he died, he dropped off this potted plant on my porch. And I wouldn't say we were like fighting. I had just, as I mentioned earlier, set up some boundaries where I didn't want to get sucked into like three hour phone calls every night about how suicidal he was, stuff like that. I was like, I need boundaries. I have kids.

• 3:45:39Speaker 02

  So we were at that point in the relationship where I had just set some boundaries. He dropped off this potted plant with a sweet note. And um, it was on my porch when I got back from North Carolina. My husband's from North Carolina. I'm from, we go back and forth quite a bit. And uh, I don't think he even knew we were in North Carolina. So anyways, it was on my porch. I bring it inside. I read the note and um.

• 3:46:03Speaker 02

  Then he died. So that's the last thing I got from my brother. And um. My oldest child at the time was going into first grade. And. One morning, it was like, so Trey died in August, it was like October, maybe. My oldest son is like, can I tell you about a dream I had? I was like, yeah, sure, this will take 10 minutes, right? Seven year old had a dream, something weird and funny. Forty thousand words later, he had me type it out. It was a story about an evil villain named Captain Pete, who was trying to take over the world, and the kids fought back and defeated the evil Captain Pete.

• 3:46:47Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 3:46:49Speaker 02

  And he didn't know. And he did not know that Trey had been abused by someone named Pete. He didn't, he, I mean, he's so little, like, I'm not telling him how Trey died at that point. My therapist said, only answer the questions your kids ask because of how little they are. And just answer the question. Is Uncle Trey in heaven? Yes. Uh, did Uncle Trey die? Yes. Um, you know, the other questions came later, the more complicated ones, the sad ones. Um, but he didn't know anything about the circumstances of Trey's abuse or how he died. Um, and. I brought you these books. So he's a published author now, three times over. It's called The Magic Island Chronicles.

• 3:47:34Speaker 02

  And, uh, I hope your kids can enjoy these one day. He's about to come out with the fourth.

• 3:47:40Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 3:47:42Speaker 02

  And it's dedicated to his uncle T. Um. Mm-hmm, really special. And so, yeah, that's one example. And then I took him to Paris that October. And our flight out of Paris got delayed. Delayed, canceled, so we had to hop over to Heathrow, spend the night in London. We're at breakfast the morning after that. So we're not supposed to be in London. Like, we were supposed to fly back from Charlotte to go all in Paris, and we're suddenly stuck in London.

• 3:48:13Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 3:48:13Speaker 02

  We go to breakfast. That exact flower that Trey had dropped off on my porch before he died was on our breakfast table. Look around the room, I start crying, and my son's like, why are you crying? Like.

• 3:48:30Speaker 02

  These are the flowers Uncle T gave me right before he died. I'd never seen them before in my life. And they're at our breakfast table. And no other tables around us have these flowers.

• 3:48:42Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 3:48:45Speaker 02

  Stuff like that, all the time.

• 3:48:49Shawn Ryan?

  You wanna hear one of mine?

• 3:48:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, I do.

• 3:48:51Shawn Ryan?

  My best friend died of a heroin overdose. And, uh,

• 3:48:59Shawn Ryan?

  we, uh, we worked. He was a SEAL. We contracted at CIA together. And, uh, he got really wrapped up into opiates.

• 3:49:08Shawn Ryan?

  He was part of Red Wings, if you know what that was. It was the biggest loss in SEAL Team history at the time. Anyways. Uh,

• 3:49:20Shawn Ryan?

  when we left, uh, the agency, he was living with me for a long time and I was trying to save him. And then, um, that was in Florida. I moved to Tennessee and he, he, uh, overdosed shortly thereafter. But while he was,

• 3:49:35Shawn Ryan?

  while I was still in Florida, he was trying to, he was a pro hockey player before he was a SEAL.

• 3:49:42Shawn Ryan?

  And, um, so he, while he was all junked out, he would tell me, I'm, I'm gonna start the Wounded Warriors hockey team and the Panthers, the NHL team, they're gonna sponsor it. I'm like,

• 3:50:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:50:01Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, Gabe, right on. And, um, best of luck. The day he died, the Panthers went over to his condo to tell him that they were gonna fund his fucking team.

• 3:50:17Shawn Ryan?

  And they found him dead.

• 3:50:18Speaker 02

  What?

• 3:50:20Shawn Ryan?

  He had overdosed.

• 3:50:24Shawn Ryan?

  And so, fast forward, the team's, that's his jersey right there. The Panther Warriors.

• 3:50:30Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 3:50:31Shawn Ryan?

  And they still funded it. So let's fast forward, right? So I was, I'm always talking to Gabe. And I did this interview overseas that

• 3:50:41Shawn Ryan?

  ruffled a lot of feathers. And with the Taliban. And, uh, cause I'd, I'd, I had, um, me and a guy legend had broken the story that, um, the US government sending forty to eighty-seven million dollars a week to the Taliban. In cash. And I got really paranoid and I was like, oh shit, they're gonna fucking kill me. And, um, we'd come back, we went, we did the interview in Austria. And we came back and that, this is at my old studio, that jersey was hanging right when you walk in the front door, probably been hanging there for about three years. I come home from that and I'm already paranoid and that thing has fallen on the floor. No glass broke. The nail hole wasn't weird. It just was on the ground.

• 3:51:26Shawn Ryan?

  And I felt like Gabe was trying to tell me something. So the whole day, I'm like, and nobody else was at the studio except, uh, my assistant, the whole team was in Austria. And I asked her, did you, there's no reason for you to have done this, but why, you know, she's like, I wasn't like that yesterday. And, uh, so everybody leaves, I'm pacing around and I'm like, Gabe, what are you trying to fucking tell me, man? What do I need to be looking out for? And I go home. I tell my wife. And, um, she just looked at me and, uh, she goes, um, the Panthers just won the fucking Stanley Cup yesterday.

• 3:52:09Speaker 02

  What?

• 3:52:11Shawn Ryan?

  And I was like,

• 3:52:14Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 3:52:17Shawn Ryan?

  And then I, and then, um, I found it on June 28th, which is the day Red Wings happened. And those were his guys.

• 3:52:26Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:52:28Speaker 02

  It's specific.

• 3:52:30Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:52:31Speaker 02

  There's no doubting that. Gabe saying hello.

• 3:52:35Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 3:52:35Speaker 02

  Panthers won or something.

• 3:52:37Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, so I started laughing because Katie told me that and I was, I started laughing because I was like, man, Gabe's over here probably looking at me like, you fucking idiot. I'm not trying to warn you of anything. The fucking Panthers just won the Stanley Cup. And it's June 28th.

• 3:52:53Speaker 02

  It was a celebration.

• 3:52:54Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I know. I know. I was like, man, I gotta stop taking myself so seriously, but, uh, but, um, I've had a lot of shit like that happen, man. And, uh, it's definitely not a coincidence.

• 3:53:10Speaker 02

  It's not a coincidence. I don't believe in coincidences and, um, I will say, and another note that I mentioned three that really stood out. The second one was a woman who had lost her husband and her son in the same year. Her son was a friend of mine. And, uh, she wrote in the note, joy and sorrow can coexist. And I really needed to hear that. Um, and to your point of taking yourself so seriously, uh, it's easy to do that when you're experiencing a tragedy and going through grief.

• 3:53:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:53:40Speaker 02

  But we have to give ourselves the permission to feel joy and sorrow. They can coexist. And then the, another note, a friend wrote, her, her brother was really good friends with Trey. She's one of my best friends.

• 3:53:54Shawn Ryan?

  How do you do that? How do you find joy and sorrow? Have you figured that out?

• 3:53:59Speaker 02

  Well, that's what these signs tell me to have. And if you listen to them, you know, that's Gabe, like Panthers won, smile, chill out. And, uh, these signs, that's what I always get. It's like a chill out, like, you have so many blessings, so many things to be grateful for. Like, focus on that. And, um, but you, it doesn't fix the sorrow, but joy and sorrow can coexist and you can find purpose in the pain. And, um, that's why I am so energized by the work I do. People are like, aren't you exhausted? It's like, Constantly, I've gotten rid of the drug dealer phone now and I just like use my

• 3:54:40Speaker 02

  normal phone. I'm not so scared of the Canuck cult at this point. They should be scared of me, not the other way around. And they are, now that I've seen Trey's NDA after September 1st, I know exactly why they're so scared of Trey and of me. Canuck specifically demanded the NDA, not the insurance company, not the other defendants. They tacked on more money if he would sign the NDA and his lawyer let him do it. And he called it blood money. And so, this third note I got from my friend, whose brother was close with Trey, she said, "God's work is not done with Trey yet."

• 3:55:27Speaker 02

  And that gets me up in the morning and gives me the fight I need to have. I don't know if you feel this with like Gabe or others that have been close to you that you've lost, but they're okay. They're whole and healed.

• 3:55:43Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:55:44Speaker 02

  We're the ones left behind to do the work that the lessons they taught us tell us to do. And if you can't have joy in that, I think it's a slap in the face to your loved one on the other side. They don't want us to be sad every time we think of them. And so they send us these little glimmers and they send us these, I call them God winks sometimes.

• 3:56:11Shawn Ryan?

  You gotta be paying attention, though.

• 3:56:13Speaker 02

  You have to be open to it and you have to be paying attention. And if you are, then it becomes sustainable, at least for me. This is so depressing. I mean, yeah, I'm just here, Sean, to lighten the, lighten the mood today about child rape and...

• 3:56:34Speaker 02

  I hope your next guest is like something.

• 3:56:37Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, you want to know who my next guest is?

• 3:56:39Speaker 02

  Who is it?

• 3:56:40Shawn Ryan?

  Ro Khanna.

• 3:56:41Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 3:56:42Shawn Ryan?

  We're talking about the Epstein files.

• 3:56:43Speaker 02

  Good. I can't wait to watch that. We posted one of his quotes on our Trey's Law social media. He had some good ones and um, yeah, I'll be real curious to hear what he has to say about that.

• 3:56:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, him and Massey really blew the lid off of that. Thank God. Somebody fucking had the nuts to do it, right?

• 3:57:02Speaker 02

  I respect and stand with those survivors so much because they've been waiting for 20 years. And I mean, Keanu Reeves about to catch up to it because it's been like Pete Newman's been in prison for 16 years.

• 3:57:16Speaker 02

  But there are a thousand, there's over a thousand Epstein victims and uh, no justice.

• 3:57:25Speaker 02

  And I'm glad that the public is pressing in and putting pressure on the files being released. Whatever that looks like. I don't, I couldn't tell you tactically how to do that, but it can't be that hard.

• 3:57:43Speaker 02

  Keep calling it out. I appreciate you.

• 3:57:46Shawn Ryan?

  I will. Well, I appreciate you, but um,

• 3:57:51Shawn Ryan?

  Anne, thank you.

• 3:57:53Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:57:53Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for coming. Thank you for what you're doing.

• 3:57:57Speaker 02

  It's a sacred honor.

• 3:58:00Shawn Ryan?

  Let me know if I can help anymore.

• 3:58:02Speaker 02

  I'll be in touch.

• 3:58:03Shawn Ryan?

  I'd love to jump in. All right.

• 3:58:20Shawn Ryan?

  No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan Show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment, and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.