#145 Angela Ford - Meet the Army Psychic Who Tracked Spies, Hostages and Fugitives

Angela Ford worked as a remote viewer in the CIA’s Project Stargate, a Cold War-era program focused on extrasensory perception (ESP) to gather intelligence on distant locations or individuals. She was among the select few trained in "remote viewing," a form of controlled clairvoyance, and applied this skill to support government intelligence efforts during her time with Stargate. Ford now shares her experiences and teaches remote-viewing techniques at the Monroe Institute, an organization known for exploring consciousness and advanced mind training methods. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://preparewithshawn.com https://hillsdale.edu/srs https://trueclassic.com/srs https://blackbuffalo.com https://ShawnLikesGold.com | 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 5:55 in 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 1:05Shawn Ryan?

  Angela Ford, welcome to the show.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Thank you. I'm glad to be here and thank you for the opportunity.

• 1:11Shawn Ryan?

  Well, thank you for being here and I am very humbled to be here with you right now. And so you first kind of popped up on my radar when I interviewed Joe McMonigal. He had brought you up in the interview and I asked Joe to connect us if he would connect us and he said he'd be happy to. And then I interviewed another one of your former colleagues. Actually, it sounds like both of them are still colleagues to this day. But Edwin May, another fascinating guy. And man, everybody in this space has just been so nice to talk to. And I love the subject matter, so I'm very happy you're here.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

• 1:56Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for coming. So, everybody starts off with a introduction here. And so...

• 2:06Shawn Ryan?

  Angela Ford, you're a remote viewer 079. You have worked for 32 years in the intelligence community. You're a member of the US Army's Remote Viewing at Fort Meade, Maryland from 1986 to 1985.

• 2:22Speaker 03

  1995.

• 2:23Shawn Ryan?

  Excuse me, 1995. You are currently a teacher at the Monroe Institute and participate in occasional projects with Dr. Ed May at the Laboratories of Fundamental Research, LFR. You're one of the few female remote viewers in the Stargate program used to use automatic writing. Discovery Channel aired a reenactment of a case that you solved for the US Customs in 1989. You were given special acknowledgement in former Secretary of Defense William Cohen's book Murder in the Senate. You have been written about in Annie Jacobson's

• 3:04Shawn Ryan?

  book Phenomena: The Secret History of the US Government's Investigations into Extrasonsary Perception and Psychokinesis. Do you know Annie?

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:17Shawn Ryan?

  I just interviewed her too.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:19Shawn Ryan?

  And another interview I loved, and I'm just really happy I connected with her as well. But, so, we've got a couple things to knock out before we get in the weeds. I have a subscription network on Patreon, and they are our top supporters. Many of them have been with me since the very beginning, and I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for them, and neither would we be having this conversation. So, one of the things that I offer them is the opportunity to ask each guest a question. And so, I thought

• 4:04Shawn Ryan?

  this was a good question, because a lot of people kind of categorize spirituality with remote viewing and ESP-type stuff. So, this is from Paul. "Have you known any remote viewers who have claimed negative spiritual experiences in the process of their remote viewing?"

• 4:28Speaker 03

  No.

• 4:29Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  No, because people that I know were trained in remote viewing.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  And, okay, remote viewing is nothing more than ESP.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  It's, when somebody remote views to gather intelligence, it's nothing more than what a psychic does. The information is out there. When somebody receives psychic information, it's mental. So the information goes to the brain, and then it goes on to the paper, whether you're doing coordinate remote viewing, extended remote viewing, whether you're using tarot cards, whether you're using a crystal ball. That's the manifestation of the information. So, remote viewing is nothing more than being, than ESP. It's a nice term that the scientist used. It's a nice term to use

• 5:30Speaker 03

  if you're trying to get money from Congress instead of saying psychic. And what makes remote viewing, remote viewing, is the methodology, meaning that the remote viewer, the psychic, and the people involved in the remote viewing process are blind to the target. That is what makes remote viewing is the methodology. But if you ask a psychic, "We're gonna do a remote viewing session", they're gonna go into session and they're gonna do whatever they need to do to gather the information. And you can't tell. You can't tell anyone. You can't tell a psychic, "Oh, well, you can't do that. You have to do this."

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Although, in the Stargate program, they did have the coordinate remote viewing methodology because... It was a manual. It was, it was written by, um, it was by Stanford Research Institute, made the manual. It was nice to have, um, to kind of show Congress that it's more technical. It took away from the spirituality or the, um, but the Army took it as, military likes to train. So when the Army people saw this manual of coordinate remote viewing, then they kind of made it their bible and this is remote viewing. But actually, when somebody remote views, they're just, they're just being a psychic.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  I mean, you can see it, you could feel it, you can hear it. Whatever happens in a session, you don't know.

• 7:03Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, okay. That makes sense.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Now, as, now not, now I've had other people who claim that they're psychic, that if they've had negative experiences. Um, and, and I've had negative experiences and I remembered whenever I had start, um, training as a psychic, I was very young. Um, I, a woman told me, she said, Angela, you, you're going to, you're going to see positive, but you're going to see negative. You're going to feel negativity because this is what earth, we, earth is made of positive. There's positive and there's negativity. Um, but I, I'm just not, it, sometimes it's just there,

• 7:50Speaker 03

  but it goes, it's energy. It just kind of goes away. I've been doing it for so long and so much has happened to me. It just doesn't matter. But I do, you know, people call me up and they get a little nervous. They go, you know, I had this dream and what does this mean? Or they may feel like, I, I just had a guy email me the other day. Um, I think he got, he started seeing, I think he was seeing orbs in, in his third eye area. And I said, you're, and I said, your third eyes, you know, it's a chakra center that's opening up, but.

• 8:26Speaker 03

  I don't know. You know, I don't know. I just feel there is negative. And I know a lot of psychics that don't want to read people if they're negative. Well, good luck to that. I mean, we're not always going to be 100% positive all the time.

• 8:41Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:41Speaker 03

  And then I know people, healers and psychics, they bring a client in and they'll go through a whole exercise of, you know, talking, bringing the light, you know, blessing themselves. We only want good.

• 8:56Speaker 03

  It's just, I don't know, just, I don't do all of that, but I guess.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  I don't know, I guess it's just negative and positive.

• 9:06Shawn Ryan?

  Well,

• 9:09Shawn Ryan?

  changing the subject just a little bit. When I walked up here to start the interview, my editor was sitting here and you guys were having a conversation. And it sounds like you had somehow tapped into his health. Can you explain what was going on there?

• 9:27Speaker 03

  He asked, he said, can you, he asked me if I could give him a reading sometime. And I said, well, I said, I can do it now. So I just needed his, I needed to concentrate on something. So I asked him for his birthday. And he gave me his birthday. And from his birthday, I was able to tune in. And I felt like he, actually, I felt like he was going through a huge year of change, which he, whenever he told me what was going.

• 9:56Shawn Ryan?

  He is.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, huge change.

• 9:58Shawn Ryan?

  He just moved.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And I said, and it's the kind of aspect where people want change, but it could be more change than what you want. In other words, by the time this comes around in your life, you welcome change, but sometimes you get change that you don't want. And I said, you can even lose friends. Well, that made sense to him. And then, I don't know why, I just, I don't know why, just, I said, just, I said, do you have a delic, I said, I just told him he had a delicate system. And he did say, I said, you have to eat light foods.

• 10:37Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting, interesting. So does that just come to you?

• 10:43Shawn Ryan?

  How does it come?

• 10:45Speaker 03

  Many ways, just many, many ways. Just focusing. I, well, then, just, I need a focus. I, I really do need a focus. And I knew I didn't have, um, I, the birthday, his birthday kinda helped. I did some basic numerology, um, and just, and, and, and then it's just that focus. And then it just kinda opens up the door and then I can go from that.

• 11:09Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  It just opens up the door.

• 11:12Shawn Ryan?

  Could you, could you describe the chakras?

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Well, I guess there's, there's, there, um, there, the, these, there's these points on your body, like your hands. I think there's one in the stomach area. It's called the solar plex. And then you have the kundalini, which is your spine. It comes up like a snake. And then you have the third eye and you have your feet. And a lot of times when people become very sensitive or psychic, these points, they kind of, um, they open up. It's sort of like you, we have an aura. And these, and so it's sort of like as you become more aware or as you become, um, more psychic, you're opening yourself up more to these energies and so you become more sensitive.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  And it's a process. It's a process.

• 12:06Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. So you become more in tune with the environment?

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Become more in tuned.

• 12:11Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  And it's a process. I think it took me about nine months to go through, um, a process.

• 12:18Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. I have one more question before we, we get into the life story. So not long ago, me and my wife, uh, went out to dinner with a, um, with a couple that's very good friends with us. And we talk about things like this and, and, and UFOs and it, uh, stuff like that a lot. And, um, my friend's wife was talking about, she was saying that she has dreams. I believe it was dreams.

• 12:57Shawn Ryan?

  But she felt like somebody else was putting those visuals or messaging into her head. And so she would vocally say, hey, you're not welcome here. And I've seen some articles as of late that that that kind of talks a little bit about, I don't know if mind control is the right word, but kind of thought control.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 13:22Shawn Ryan?

  Is that, is that a thing?

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of people get, um, it's sort of like whenever you go to a haunted house and you see a, it's the same thing.

• 13:33Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  It's, oh, it's not like she had, it's, I think what she needs to do is just recognize and just say, you know, I recognize what you're doing here. And, you know, and if you can recognize what's going on. And she could say something like, look, I recognize what's going on here. And why do you want me to have this information? But I'd rather not have it. It's just rec, it just rec, it's almost like if you see a ghost or it's like, hi, I know you're here. It's rec, recognize it. And once, once you rec, it's like they want to be recognized and then it just goes away.

• 14:15Shawn Ryan?

  I think what she was thinking was going on is that, basically what I'm getting at is would it be possible for a remote viewer to inject a thought or a certain feeling or maybe information into another individual's mental status?

• 14:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:41Shawn Ryan?

  Have you heard of that before?

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, because that's what they, yeah, because if somebody, I think at one point they were, um, it was always thought that like if somebody was kidnapped, if they would, they were trying to tell people if they were kidnapped, start concentrating on.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  If, I think, like if a remote viewer could find the person, if the person would start, suppose you were kidnapped and somebody wanted me to find you. You could, you could start saying, you know, explaining where you are or what you're going through, and I could tap into that.

• 15:20Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 15:21Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what they want. Yeah. It's telepathy. That's called telepathy.

• 15:27Shawn Ryan?

  Have you done that?

• 15:29Speaker 03

  A couple, yeah, well, I have done that with, yeah, with my sister. I did it a couple of times. Telepathy.

• 15:35Shawn Ryan?

  How would it, can you describe that experience?

• 15:39Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Well, there's, I, okay. There was one instance where, and I don't know if this is, I don't, okay. When I was working for the government, I was working for Army Intelligence, I had heard that there was one of my college professors that just started working at the Pentagon. And I guess I kept meaning to call him to get in touch with him. Well, one evening, he was out and he saw my sister. Um, and so they talked and my sister came home and I was sleeping. So I went to work the next day and I called the guy and he said, oh, he said, I bet your sister told me to call, I bet your sister told you to call me. And I said, no, I haven't talked to my sister.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  And he, so he, he felt like, oh, wow, he said, you must be psychic because I just saw your sister less than twenty-four hours ago, but somehow I must have known to call him, even though she didn't tell me that she saw him. But another instance I had with my sister was I, I, we were, she was in the, we were living in an apartment and I had to, she had a, I don't know what she did, she would keep forgetting a certain house key or something. So every time she would come in, I'd have to, and I can remember always just kinda sending her a message, don't forget the, don't forget the key, don't forget the key.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  And I almost, at one point, I could almost see her going back for the key and reaching for it. So I later on that day when I saw her, I said, did you almost forget the key? And I knew what time she had left. I, I, I could, I could, I knew what time she left. Well, I kept saying, don't forget the key, don't forget the key. Either she was gonna lock herself out or I was gonna get there and I would have to leave her in. And I can remember saying, don't, projecting, don't forget the key. And then I kinda saw this image and I could see her going back for the key and I, and I recorded the time.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  So when I saw her later, I said, did you almost, what time did you leave the apartment? And she told me and I said, did you almost forget the key? She said, yeah, I had to come back for it.

• 18:54Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, wow. That's, that stuff is just fascinating to me. Absolutely fascinating. Well, before we get into your life story, everybody gets a gift.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you, thank you. Oh, this is nice. Oh, goodies, goodies.

• 19:12Shawn Ryan?

  Those are Vigilance Elite gummy bears.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, my husband, I'm gonna keep this away from my husband. He has these all throughout the house, but no, thank you.

• 19:25Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome, you're welcome. But, um, all right, Angela, so we're gonna start

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 19:31Shawn Ryan?

  Right at the very beginning. Where did you grow up?

• 19:34Speaker 03

  I grew up in a small coal mining town in western Pennsylvania. I'm from, I'm from Indiana County, Pennsylvania. It was where Jimmy Stewart was born and raised.

• 19:45Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, cool, cool.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Um, I'm Italian. I came from a large Italian family. Both sides of my family are Italian. And when I was very young, when I was very young, I had a lot of out of body experiences.

• 20:02Shawn Ryan?

  What age did that start?

• 20:04Speaker 03

  Oh, three, four, five, six. I can remember, um, I can remember when this, I guess they say at certain points of your life, I guess you get the spark of life, or there's a spark. I can remember when I began to walk. I can remember this spark going in me. And, and I knew it. I recognized I was a baby, but I knew a spark went in me.

• 20:31Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  I was very aware of that.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  And I was, I had a lot of, and I had a twin sister who had out of body experiences. Now, I told my mother, I would get up and I would tell my mother what my, what my, um, oh, and then I started to have dreams. I started to have dreams. And there were a lot of dreams. It was about a lot of things, about world events when I was, um, six years old. And I would tell my mother and my mother would listen to me. And, and there are a lot of things about China, a lot of things about Russia.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  I was only six years old and I would get up and talk about these Jews, but my mother would listen to me and she never discouraged me. And as a child growing up, I could, now, once I got into school and when I became busy, it didn't happen all the time. Things sort of faded away. But I was always curious in the subject because I knew I was, I was, you know, I was flying out, you know, I was leaving my body. I could see my body. I'm flying out the door. I'm walking through walls, I'm in the trees. So I, so I was always interested in the subject, but I didn't, um,

• 21:53Speaker 03

  so, you know, I'd go to maybe psychic sometime, but my mother was very interested in the subject. Really? Oh, my mother had all kind of paraphernalia laying around the house from Edgar Cayce to, um, she had a lot of Edgar Cayce material. She bought a whole encyclopedia of, of, um, the occult. We still have, we still have the encyclopedia of the occult. My mother was into it. She would listen to Jeannie Dixon and what Jory Geller on TV. And, but, and she liked country western music and she believed in reincarnation. So,

• 22:33Speaker 03

  as a teenager growing up, you know, she'd talk about reincarnation and turn up that country music. And I thought she was weird and I just went.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  I was so embarrassed when friends would come over and one time the car radio broke. And I was so happy because then we didn't have to listen to the, um, country music. And I was walking down the road, because it's, it's a coal mining town, the road, not the street, then not on a sidewalk, but the road. And she had a transistor and I was walking with my friends and she held that transistor out the window as she was driving and she said, listen Angela, and it was like a new country western song, singer was singing a new song. Uh, you know, but that's the way she was. No. So I went to college at Indiana University of Pennsylvania and, um,

• 23:29Speaker 03

  And the year that I graduated, my sister, I had a political science degree and my sister had a got, received a criminology degree. And my sister said, we should be state police. She, she loved criminology and the investigative work. So we decided that we were gonna be, we would, but we were gonna be applied to the police, to the Pennsylvania Police Academy. Well, it wasn't accepting new applicants that year. So, um, I, we had graduated from college, we could, the academy wasn't taking new applicants. I think I was just sort of, um, I was a, I was a waitress.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  Um, and I had nothing, so I, there was a, um, there was a man who taught a night class at, at the university that I attended. He was a chemistry teacher, but he was psychic and he would, and he taught an ESP class at night. So I took his ESP class. And he was pretty, he was good, like he'd put in, he'd make everybody write a number down and hide it from him and then he'd go around and tell you what the number was. And I liked him a lot, but what happened was, um, I was coming, I, uh, I was coming down, I could, the police academy wasn't gonna open up.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  So my sister and I applied to the FBI and we were coming down to Washington DC to work for the FBI. So I got a call one day where I had to go to a factory to work at night because I had to, and I had to quit the class because I had to make money to come down to DC. But I always remembered him and I remembered the class. So I came down to DC and then I, uh, worked it as, as a, for the FBI. Um, there's no way I could, we could have become agents, our eyesight couldn't have done it. And it was very, it was a very low paying job. But we did, I did meet, there was a woman I knew who was dating an Indian, an American

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Indian. And my sister and I were invited one night, I guess it was a powwow they called it.

• 25:42Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  And there was some tribal leader, he was, there was some tribal leader from, um, the West. And he told my sister and I, he said,

• 25:54Speaker 03

  He said, "Did you have pro- Did you have dreams when you were young?" Like the- And I said, "Yes." And he said, "When you're in your eighties, whatever you dreamt about, it will be true."

• 26:08Shawn Ryan?

  Do you remember what you dreamt about?

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:11Shawn Ryan?

  What did you dream about?

• 26:12Speaker 03

  Uh, that actually, that we would not- we would not have the, um- that the enemy would be China, not- I know what's going on with Russia and the Ukraine, but that will be resolved. That will be resolved, and we will be, um, friends with Russia again.

• 26:32Shawn Ryan?

  We will be.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  We will be.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  That was, I remembered that. And it was China. It was China was the enemy.

• 26:41Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. That's what I believe.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and you know, this was during the Cold War, whenever I had these dreams. You know, remember Khrushchev and-

• 26:54Speaker 03

  and it was unbelie- you know, I would say, "Oh, no, you know, we're- don't be friends with Russia. We're gonna fight against the Chinese." Well, a- at that time, in the ni- early nineteen sixties or fifty- late nineteen fifties, who would have, who would have thought of that?

• 27:07Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. Can we rewind to some of your- I mean, you had mentioned out-of-body experiences at age three, four years old.

• 27:18Speaker 03

  Well, actually, four, five or s- maybe a little. It was before I went to school.

• 27:23Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  It was before s- I entered school at six.

• 27:25Shawn Ryan?

  What, what, what, can you describe? Do you remember your first out-of-body experience?

• 27:33Speaker 03

  No, they all seem the same. You just go out of body.

• 27:36Shawn Ryan?

  Was there, wh- what-

• 27:40Shawn Ryan?

  what did the dream entail?

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Oh, it's not a dream. It's not a dream. It's you physically- you physically leave, you, you, your body, you come out. And you're here in the, in like a aura or a spiritual form, and your physical body's laying down. Laying, you can see your physical body laying down.

• 28:00Shawn Ryan?

  So you're fully conscious?

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, fully conscious.

• 28:05Shawn Ryan?

  Are you able to make decisions?

• 28:07Speaker 03

  Oh, sure, yeah. It's like I wanna go, yeah, I could direct myself where to go.

• 28:14Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, so where would you?

• 28:15Speaker 03

  I would go outside on the tree. I can remember one time I really wanted to go. I went to the sun, I think, one time, because I really wanted to get out of the earth. I wanted to go further. But I, I, now, when I went out of body, I had no control. And I still don't, I, I have no control when I go out of body, how I... I don't know how to go out of body, it just happens. But when I go out of body, I can direct it a little bit. I do, I can direct it.

• 28:47Shawn Ryan?

  So you can't control when you, you can't control when the out-of-body experience is gonna happen? But you can, you are fully

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Aware.

• 28:56Shawn Ryan?

  capable of making your own decisions, where you wanna go, if you wanna go right, left, up, down?

• 29:03Shawn Ryan?

  You're, you're capable. Are you, are you... Do you have the ability to come back in body?

• 29:09Speaker 03

  Oh, sure, yeah.

• 29:12Shawn Ryan?

  So what did you think at age four, five, or six?

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Oh, I loved it.

• 29:17Shawn Ryan?

  Did you find it odd?

• 29:19Speaker 03

  No, I, I didn't find it odd, but I knew as I got older, it was, I knew I could not talk about it. Now, don't ask me how I knew that. I have no, I, I knew that I could not talk about it to people.

• 29:30Shawn Ryan?

  Who's the first person you talked to?

• 29:32Speaker 03

  My mother, my mother.

• 29:34Shawn Ryan?

  What did your mother say?

• 29:35Speaker 03

  Oh, that's good.

• 29:39Shawn Ryan?

  Did she believe you?

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Oh, my mother was, yeah, oh, my mother was weird.

• 29:46Speaker 03

  Um, oh, yeah, no, she encouraged it. She encouraged it. Um...

• 29:52Shawn Ryan?

  Does your mother have out of body experiences?

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Let me tell you, what happens later, what we find out about my mother is it's unreal. She's had, she had psychic. Now, my mother was psychic, but we never knew it. And my mother would walk around the house and just make predictions. My mother would talk like, oh, you know, this pope's gonna die. They're gonna get a new pope and the guy's name's gonna be John or. And my mother would talk like this. She remembered, she talked about, um, my mother would make predictions. And we didn't know what she was, um, we never knew she was, we didn't call it psychic. We just thought she was, you know, a little bit. We called her, um, lofty. She was lofty.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  She just didn't seem to be, she was lofty. And she would, a couple of times, you know, she'd be around the house making dinner or talking. And she'd say, oh, you know, there's gonna be a war over in Israel. It'll be short-lived though, and there was. Well, was it there a forty-eight hour war or something? So that's how she would talk all the time, but we never paid any attention to her. And then she'd talk about reincarnation, going to reincarnation. So we never really paid much attention to her. Now, what happened was, I was down here work. I, I got a job over with, once I left the FBI, I was able to get a job. This would have been around nineteen eighty.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  I came down to DC in probably nineteen seventy-eight or seventy-nine. I left the FBI because a woman I was working with left the FBI. And she went to join her husband who was working with Army Intelligence. And she called me up and she said, Army's having, Army Intelligence is having internships. They're looking for people with political science degrees. You should apply. You'll be making more money than what you're making now, plus. It's, you know, you get more as you, as the years go by, you make more money. So I applied. When I started to work for Army Intelligence, I was on, I was on a two or three year intern program.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  And I learned all about intelligence, how you collect it, how you disseminate it, how you produce it. I had, I went to the different intelligence agencies to find out who's responsible for what. So I did this, um, I did, and then at the end of the internship, they gave me a job. I was a Central American analyst and at the time, it was around the nineteen eighty-two, eighty-three time period. Whenever you had the sendanistas in Nicaragua and you had Noriega in Panama.

• 32:32Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  And then insurgencies in El Salvador and, um, in, um, Honduras. And then late, um, so it was a hotbed and I would do the current intelligence briefings every Friday for the command staff.

• 32:48Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  And I, and that's what I was doing. Well, at the time, when my mother called me up one day and she said, it was the fall and she said, I need to take, you know, I, I wanna do something. My friends and I were bored. We, my mother always took classes, like ceramic classes. And I told her, I said, why don't you take Dr. Bordis's ESP class at the college? It was the class that I had to quit back when I graduated from college in nineteen seventy-six. So she said, I think I will. So her and her two friends started to take the class. And here, um, what they found out was my mother was very psychic.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  And the, uh, the, the, they could give my mother an object, like your ring or a bracelet or a watch and she could hold the object and she could tell you about the person who owned the object. So now my mother is, um, now my mother, we recognize that she has these abilities. So my father died during that time. It was, must have been around nineteen eighty-three, eighty-four. My father died and I, I was, she mailed me a book and she said, Angela, read. And it was a sudden death that was unexpected. I was still young. I was twenty-nine years old. I was living with my sister. We were heartbroken.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  So my mother emailed me a book and she said, read this book. It will help you understand your father's death. And I did. And it was, um, it was a book by Ruth Montgomery. She was a popular writer at the time. And she kinda, and it was called A World Beyond. So that, that book helped me, helped me get over my grief. But after I read the book, I started, things started. I felt like I was getting very psychic. Um, I, um, I started to do channeling or automatic writing. Uh, my sister was taking an astrology class at the time.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  Um, and my sis, and the astrologer knew that my sister and I were doing the automatic writing. So she kinda recommended us to go study with a man by the name of Fred Mansbridge in Alexandria. He owned the Mansbridge Institute. So we started studying from him. And I was working at, at, as a Central American analyst. And at that time, somebody, my, the astrologist teacher told my sister about this psychic program that the government had where I worked. I heard it from my sister's astrologers. I didn't hear it from. So I started to make inquiries where I worked. And yeah, I had heard there was this psychic program

• 35:41Speaker 03

  that the army, that they had army remote viewers. Uh, I didn't even know where it was located. So I did meet with the general and I did wanna go to the program. Well, he, it was General Stubblebine and he was retiring. This was nineteen eighty-four. And he was retiring. So I thought, well, um, I, I guess I lost my chance to be brought into the psychic program.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  And what had happened was,

• 36:13Speaker 03

  he was getting ready to retire. So this army psychic sitting up at Fort Meade, they were sitting around, ready to get um, orders to go someplace else and work. Even the civilians up there. You know how the government works. We're gonna close this program, but you're gonna go here and work, and you're gonna go there and work. So um, they assumed that the uh, the program would be shut down because General Stubblebine was retiring, and he was the army. The remote viewers were being paid by the army. They were under the army.

• 36:48Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Well, in the meantime, in 1984, Dr. Jack Verona, who worked at Defense Intelligence Agency, who was funding research into parapsychology at Stanford Research Institute and other places like Princeton and and um, Duke University. He went to Congress and said, "Don't shut down the program. Just just transfer the program to, from Army to the Defense Intelligence Agency", which took about a year. And then in 1986, I was brought into the program after it was transferred.

• 37:25Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, let's rewind just a little bit. What is automatic writing?

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Um, it's just, it's just a way of receiving information. Like if you ask a question, um, it it's just a matter, it's just a way you can receive information.

• 37:40Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  It's like an automat, it's like an onatomic, it's just, you just get the information through writing.

• 37:49Shawn Ryan?

  So you think about something?

• 37:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:52Shawn Ryan?

  And you just start writing?

• 37:54Speaker 03

  No, somebody asks a question, and then it kind of goes, and then I, and then I just sort of write out the answer.

• 38:02Shawn Ryan?

  How does that come to you?

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Well, at first it came slow, came very slow because it, you know, the process was very slow, but now it comes a little faster because I've been doing it for so long.

• 38:16Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I guess what I'm asking is, can you describe the, what you're experiencing? When I, if, if, if we were gonna do the exercise right now? And I, and you had a pen and you were writing? And I just asked a, what's a question somebody would ask?

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Am I gonna get, am I gonna get my, a raise? You know, am I gonna make more money?

• 38:44Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:46Shawn Ryan?

  How does that answer come to you? Can you please describe that experience?

• 38:55Speaker 03

  It just comes, it's like a door, it's like just a door opens. It's, you know.

• 39:01Shawn Ryan?

  Is it just a thought that is in?

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, it comes fast, it comes fast. It can come very fast. It just, it, it comes fast.

• 39:12Shawn Ryan?

  How do you clear your head so there's only that one thought? Or do you?

• 39:16Speaker 03

  I try to, I try to. Um, I try to be disciplined, but sometimes you don't, but sometimes it just comes. I don't know if you've ever watched psychics on TV, like, um, was there a man, John Edward? Or trees, they had the Long Island Psychic?

• 39:34Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  If you've ever watched them, they're, they talk fast. The information comes fast. That's how fast it comes. In fact, I went to see John Edward in Baltimore. And he came out and he said, he said, "I'm gonna start giving information, and if it pertains to you, raise your hand." And then he would walk over to the person and he would say, "Do not ask me any questions until I am finished talking." And he said that it's, it's like these, um, the information just comes so fast.

• 40:12Shawn Ryan?

  Is it a thought in your head that you write down? Or is it your hand that just writes it?

• 40:19Speaker 03

  No, the hand is the manifestation. Again, the information is out in the ethers. You're asking me a question. I have to go out there. My mind has to go out into the ethers, or it has to go out into this energy field. So it comes, the information is here, so it manifests on the paper. That's why a lot of people can give a reading without anything. Like, I've, I've known psychics, they'll just stand, they don't use anything. Uh, I think I'm a little, I guess that I like to rely on my paper and pen.

• 40:56Shawn Ryan?

  When did you realize? When did you and your sister have a conversation about what was going on? If it was happening to both of you?

• 41:04Speaker 03

  Oh, and she came home one day, and I was doing the automatic writing, and I showed her what I was doing, and she said, "Oh, I wanna do that." So she did it, too.

• 41:14Shawn Ryan?

  Is that when she found out?

• 41:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:17Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. And you guys are twins?

• 41:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And, um...

• 41:21Shawn Ryan?

  And Joe McMonigal has a twin?

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:23Shawn Ryan?

  Is there any...

• 41:25Speaker 03

  Oh, sure. Oh, sure. And it's genetic. My mother was psychic. I had heard years later that my father's father, before he came to the United States, he traveled all through Europe with a, um... with a tray. And on the tray was a bird and tarot cards. And he would make money by giving somebody a reading. The bird would pick up the tarot card, and my grandfather would give a psychic reading. So I have it from my father's side and my mother's side.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  So it has to be a gene. They, it has to be a gene.

• 42:02Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think... I talked with Joe about this. I've talked to, I think I talked to Ed about this. Maybe John Alexander as well.

• 42:14Shawn Ryan?

  Did all humans have this at one point in time? Do you, what is, I mean?

• 42:19Speaker 03

  Oh, I think it's, I think it's always been there. But we just, it's always, I mean, why are we, we intuitively, we know when to come out of the womb. It's like psychically, we know when to be born. I believe psychically, we know when to leave, too.

• 42:35Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 42:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  I, I've watched my mother-in-law and a, and a brother. I feel like, yeah, I feel like they knew when to go. They knew, it's like they took themselves out.

• 42:52Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. When?

• 42:55Speaker 03

  I think we all have it. It's just, it's, it's just not accepted in our culture. It's, it's just, it's just not accepted in our culture. Other cultures have an easier time with it. And if this is against somebody's belief system, you're not gonna do anything to change their mind.

• 43:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I've, I've figured that out. There's, um, I've heard a lot of people say it's, it's, it's demonic. I've heard all kinds of things.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  See, now-

• 43:30Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think we've lost it, though? If you, if you believe everybody had this gift at one point in time-

• 43:37Speaker 03

  I think, I think the church, I think, um,

• 43:43Speaker 03

  okay, I, you know, I watch a lot of the, I think, I think a lot of it had to do with the church back a long, long time ago, whenever the Christianity came about in Constantinople. And he, you know, he wasn't only an, an emperor or a ruler, he was also wanted to be a religious leader. So I think he took a lot of things out of the, a lot of these things out of the church. That's why you have groups like the Masons and you have these secret societies. I mean, I think these people have, know this stuff.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  But it's just not talked about.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 45:24Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, what do they say? We only use 10% of our brain?

• 45:29Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, do you think that through

• 45:34Shawn Ryan?

  advancements in technology that we are losing brain sensory?

• 45:42Speaker 03

  I hope not, but you know, everybody's afraid of AI. I don't know, we're just gonna have to think a new way. There's a book out called Human Design, and the guy that wrote it said that even people, children, the next generations, as they come after us, their brains will be different. They will be more, I guess our computer systems are changing or things are changing. So when these new people come, somehow they're gonna be geared up to understand maybe things that we couldn't. So I guess there's an evolution.

• 46:20Shawn Ryan?

  And in that evolution, we're losing

• 46:24Shawn Ryan?

  we're losing psychic abilities.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we shouldn't. We should be getting, we should be gaining more psychic abilities.

• 46:34Shawn Ryan?

  How would we gain more?

• 46:35Speaker 03

  I think just being aware, having more awareness, being more in tune and, and understanding that,

• 46:44Speaker 03

  I, I don't understand people, I, I don't know, I just think being psychic really is just being aware. You don't even, if you could just go into a room and just be aware of who's, you know, what's in that room, who's in that room, how's that person feeling? What's, you know, read the room, read the people, but people don't do that, they just go in and talk.

• 47:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:11Shawn Ryan?

  So it sounds like you're kind of saying just being in the moment, completely aware of your surroundings and, and paying attention, just paying attention to,

• 47:23Shawn Ryan?

  to your thoughts, to what's happening, to maybe, maybe, um, coincidences.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, nothing is a coincidence.

• 47:32Shawn Ryan?

  It does seem that way.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  Nothing is a coincidence.

• 47:35Shawn Ryan?

  When did you come to that conclusion?

• 47:36Speaker 03

  It just because everything, I mean, how I got to Army Intelligence, I never thought I would work in DC. I would have been happy in Pennsylvania.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  I was, I had relatives that were involved in polit, local politics. I was help, you know, working on political campaigns. I was happy. Uh, when I came to DC, it wasn't easy. Um, working for the FBI was difficult. It was the years after Hoover had died and they were trying to make a transition into hiring minorities and working with minorities. So, and then I went to Army Intelligence and they were, um, I think they had a problem because I was a female civilian and...

• 48:25Speaker 03

  And you need the civilian workforce in a military because they're what are, they're the, they stay. So it wasn't easy. I mean, it really wasn't easy. But I, you know, I had nothing else to go back to. Even when I would try to go back to Pennsylvania, I just couldn't find anything to do anything.

• 48:46Shawn Ryan?

  How did you get selected for the remote viewing program?

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Well, what happened was is I had found out through my sister's astrologer that they, I had found out that Army Intelligence where I was working had this, had these psychics, like remote viewers. I didn't know it. So I, I want, I met, I asked to meet General Stubblebine to see if I really wanted to go to the job. Um, but then I got in trouble with my command. I guess because I skipped my chain of command, my, my immediate chain of command got very upset with me. And then General Stubblebine was retiring. So I thought that, well, I wouldn't be able to go. But then he retired in 1984.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  And everybody thought that the program would, that the psychics, the remote viewing program would go away. But Dr. Verona picked it up in 1985 and transferred everything to Defense Intelligence Agency. In January 1986, I got approached by the people at, by the people at Fort Meade to, they sent someone down to interview me for the job. And it took six months to get from Army Intelligence to the Defense Intelligence Agency to work as a remote viewer. They interviewed me. I did personality tests. And my clearances had to be, uh, sent from Army to DIA.

• 50:16Shawn Ryan?

  What was the interview like?

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Uh, just a personality test. Just, just general questions, but. I think General Stubblebine told them to hire me. So as far as the, as far as the interview, I figured I was going because it was the type of program that you couldn't um apply for. It was a special access program. You couldn't apply for it. They took people. If you met somebody and you thought they were, could fit in the unit, that's how they were brought in. So I'm sure if a general called some, you know, like the ba- the commander up at Fort Meade, who was the head of the remote viewers and said to bring me on, I'm sure they would have listened to him because he was a general.

• 51:03Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. At, at what point did they,

• 51:07Shawn Ryan?

  did they ask why you thought, why they thought you would be, excuse me? Did they ask why you thought you would be a good addition to the, to the program?

• 51:16Speaker 03

  No, uh-uh. They just gave me this personality. They kept giving me personality tests. And they kept asking me all these questions. But the personality test, um, I don't know. You know, I don't know why they, I think they took me because the general said to take me because I ended up being, on the test, I ended up being like a judging person. And they're saying that perceptive people make better remote viewers. So I think it was just an exercise to just, well, we interviewed her and she seems okay and we'll bring her in. But actually, when I got there, they really didn't want me there because of my automatic writing. They said it was a bad habit.

• 52:00Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh yeah. Oh, and I got in trouble with my bosses by going to the general. So they gave me a hard time and I was very uncomfortable for a long time. And, and I was in trouble. So that, I, you know, that made me very uncomfortable. So when I went, so from nineteen eighty-four to, but to nineteen, to July of nineteen eighty-six, before I went to the program, I, you know, I was, I was still working as a cur- uh, Central American analyst. Now.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  When I went to Fort Meade, my very first day of work, I was met by the operations officer. And, and I said, "Hi, I'm Angela Ford." It was the first time I met him. And he said, "I know who you are." And he said, "And I've heard about you." And he said, "You have a bad habit." He said, "What you're gonna..." He says, "We're gonna teach you the right way to be psychic." Well, at that point, I wasn't gonna argue with him because I knew what it was like to be in trouble by going over the chain of command. So whatever... I didn't wanna be in trouble again.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  He says, "Okay, whatever you go..." "Okay, it's a bad habit." "Show, you know..." "Okay, it's a bad habit." "What do you want me to do, you know?" So, what happened was, these military people, they were all learning this coordinate remote viewing. Now, they put me with a trainer. They put me with this man. His name was Gene. And I don't think... And Gene was a civilian, and he worked in Germany. He used to be in the military, and then he worked as a civilian, and he worked in Germany. And you know, if you're a civilian and you work overseas, you're only allowed to work so many years. Five years? So, five years were up, and Gene needed a job. So he called the command...

• 54:01Speaker 03

  The commander at the... Of the remote viewers. And he said, "Hey, I need a job." And the commander said, "Well, come on up. Come on down here. I'll get you a job." They made him a trainer. So I don't think this guy, he didn't have much experience with psychics or, um... You know, he just needed a job 'cause he needed a job. So they put me with him because he needed somebody to train because all the military people were doing training under another trainer. So, they put me with this trainer, the trainer Gene, because he needed somebody to train. Well, when Gene found out I was doing automatic writing and the people didn't like it...

• 54:44Speaker 03

  Then he was giving me a hard time. You know, he goes, you can't do what, we're gonna teach you the right way. So I said, okay, so what are we gonna do here? Now, what they did was they called it extended remote viewing. And it was nothing more than you sort of visualize. You, you, they put a picture in an envelope. And you sort of go down into like a meditative state, self hypnotic state. And you get visuals and then you write down what you see. So I, that's what I, that's what I did. That's what I did. And they called it extended remote viewing. And while I was waiting for my clearances to be passed from Army Intelligence to D I A to go work as a psychic.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  I picked up this book. It was called The Silva Mind Control by Dr. Silva. And in it, he taught, it was very close to the extended remote viewing. He taught about how you can go down and visualize. Like if I want to pick up information on you. I would go down and I would visualize, um, I would visualize you. No, what I would do is I would turn on the T V. Okay, okay, okay, now I'm gonna watch Sean. So in my mind, I turn on a T V and then I see you. And then I see, and then I pick up information about you. And then when I'm done, I turn the T V off. And then I come back and I say, don't, this is what I picked up on you.

• 56:15Speaker 03

  That's what, and, or you can do it with pictures. And so I read The Silva Mind Control. And then what, um, so when I went to work for the unit, they were calling it extended remote viewing. And it was the same thing that I read in the book. So I would, in my mind, whenever I was working the training targets, I'd just turn on the T V and describe the picture and come out. And do it.

• 56:42Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  So that's how I was doing. But no, I wasn't going to argue with them. They did not want me to do my automatic writing. And I, and being in trouble before, and oh my goodness. Uh, so I did that. Now, about a year and a half after I was with the program, my trainer left, the commander left, the one woman left, everybody left. They brought new people in. And they brought in one training officer and he, he said he didn't care what people did because he wasn't involved about the coordinate remote viewing. And he, um, he, he used to be a remote viewer. He didn't care about methodology. The thing with the military was they were proud because of their methodology.

• 57:28Speaker 03

  They had this coordinate remote viewing. They had extended remote viewing. And these, this, you know, this is the way it's properly done. This is how you, this is how to, to be a psychic, this is the way you do it. Well, you know, I come more from a spiritual, more from a

• 57:47Speaker 03

  spiritual whatever background. And I, and I would have thought that if you're going to go work as a psychic for the government, you would have thought at some point what some of them would have picked up a book or went to a metaphysical church or done something to look into the subject. But they took it as very, um, matter of fact. This, it, so what happened was about a year and a half, things started to change. Management started to change. And I told my, I told my boss Vern, I said, I want to do automatic writing. He said, well, you can do it. So he would say, he would give, he said, you can go home and do, he'd give me tasking and then I'd go home and do it.

• 58:32Speaker 03

  But one day I walked in and I, um,

• 58:38Speaker 03

  I, Fern and I, I walked. I don't know what happened. Um, I told Fern, he, he allowed people to do different methodologies. So I told him, I said, well, then come over and work with me. Cause I want to show you what I can do. And he did. And he put a target in the envelope and it happened to be Terry Anderson, who was a, um, he was a hostage held by the Hezbollah in Lebanon. And I described Terry and I described him. I said that he's in a country that, he's, he's, he's located in a country that's not his homeland. Um, you know, I felt that he probably was restricted.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  And that I felt that eventually he would come out and he would be well. So that was, that hit it pretty much so Fern, like, we started working, uh, but we started working, um,

• 59:36Speaker 03

  hostages. They had, um, they had other hostages there. They had, like, remember in, they had, um,

• 59:50Speaker 03

  they had a lot of university professors at Beirut that they had kidnapped. They had a man named Poe Hill. And I kept saying his throat hurt and he came out, when he got out, he was diagnosed with, um, throat cancer. Now, we were doing hostages and we were running the information up to the defense. We were running the information from Fort Meade to Bowling Air Force Base, which is what, close to an hour? So whatever hostages I was working, they were running the information up. And the people were taking the information and giving it to the Israeli embassy. And the Israelis were acting on the information.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  Now, we got a call on Sunday and they said that there was a, a Marine, Rich Higgins. He was a Marine Colonel and he was kid, he went to Bay, he went to Lebanon and he was kidnapped. And they asked if we could find him and they were very concerned because he was military and they were afraid he was going to be killed. So I worked the case and, um,

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  And I, I knew his movements. I was saying, he's moving here. I was picking up things that they could come back and say that, okay, I was more or less matching with the, with the intel messages were coming in. But they did not know where he was. So I looked at, they were giving me images, pieces of imagery. So I went to a piece of imagery and I said, he's right there. And I pointed to where Higgins was. And of course, the military people in the office said, well, there's nothing there. It's, it's, it's all woods. Why would he be there? But the analyst said, it's old imagery. So the hostages, the, the,

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  the, um, the terrorists, about a month later, after I had put Higgins in this location, the hostages left, sometimes they let hostages go. So there was a hostage that was let go by Hezbollah and it was a, it was a German guy, Cordez. So our analyst went over to Rhein mine in Germany to debrief him. And our analyst asked, do you know where Higgins is? And the, um, Cordez, the released hostage said, he's right there. He pointed to where I, where I had pointed to.

• 1:02:25Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  And the analyst looked at him and said, but there's nothing there, but woods. And the Cordez said, no, they built a structure there to put Higgins in. And that's where he was.

• 1:02:40Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Was that your first?

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was, that was pretty good. That was, yeah, I had, I think I, one time I had Terry Anderson in the Bacca Valley and the analyst came back and said, oh, he would never be in the Bacca Valley. It's not the MO of the terror, of the terrorists. But he was sighted in the Bacca Valley at one time.

• 1:03:04Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, what does that feel like to get a confirmation?

• 1:03:08Speaker 03

  Um, it was overwhelming, but see, what happened was I felt good about everything, but the ability, but, you know, they get, but they didn't really like me. It was just hard.

• 1:03:21Shawn Ryan?

  Why didn't they like you? Joe had kind of mentioned that, that, I don't remember his exact phrase, but it kind of sounded like he was saying you never got a fair shake.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  Um, first of all, I think they resented the fact that how I got in by a general, which didn't bother me because I worked in the system long enough to know if somebody higher up wants you, they pick you and you go. And I've seen it. And I've seen they do it with males, male, that, and I think because I was female, I think because I had the ability before I went in, they could not control that.

• 1:03:59Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:04:00Speaker 03

  They could not control that.

• 1:04:02Shawn Ryan?

  So most, the majority of the remote viewers, they don't have the ability before?

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  No, they just, they, no, they, the army felt that you could bring people in and train them. And you can train a person. You can put, you can put a picture in an envelope and you can train a person how to access and describe that picture. But I could go, I could find people, I could find things. That was just something I could do. It was like instead, it was my mind, that was the way my mind worked. Um, I think they resented the fact of how I got in, the fact that, um, and they knew, they knew I had this ability. And I can remember when my information started to be, when they were using my information for operational purposes,

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  um, they, they were fighting with my boss because they felt that

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  I wasn't, it wasn't scientifically proven. How are you gonna scientifically prove it? I don't know. And that they wanted to, they needed results. I had to prove my results to them before it should be used in an operational mode. Why would I have to prove myself to them? They're not scientists. They were hired to remote view, just like me. But I did, I think because, I think because the information, we were working in a fully operational mode. I, they came down, they couldn't find Gaddafi's. Remember the Gaddafi was supposed to have had a chemical plant that nobody could find? Or they said, they knew where it was, but they didn't know how the chemicals were getting there.

• 1:05:44Speaker 03

  Every time they would go, they could never find the chemicals. So they asked me, you know, they said, what's going on? So I said they were bringing it in. I, I, I named this vessel and I called it Patato. And I spelled it like potato. So we wrote a report up and we brought it to the, it was brought to the analyst. And Dr. Verona saw the report sitting on the analyst's desk. And he says, does this mean anything to you? And the analyst said, well, the vessel's not Patato. It's Botato. It's a B instead of a P. But I spelt it with, with a P. So, um, and so Dr. Verona said, do you think this,

• 1:06:30Speaker 03

  how we described the report or the scenario? He said, do you think this is viable? And he said, yeah, the analyst said yes. So they, Dr. Verona went to the, um, the commander of DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency. And they called, they called Turkey and they pulled up a submarine to watch that vessel.

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  And um, and they, it came back as highly probable. So we really, they watched the vessel, the vessel sailed the route that I said it was gonna sail. They said it probably, that probably did have the chemicals on board, or it was probably the way they were getting in and out. But it wasn't, it wasn't highly successful or successful, it was highly probable.

• 1:07:22Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:07:22Speaker 03

  But that was good enough. I mean, so, I mean, that was nerve wracking to think that they're gonna pull up a submarine based on my information. Now that really made me nervous, it made my boss nervous, because that was a sole, you know, in intelligence, you'd need several sources of information before you'll go out and look at something. It was sole source.

• 1:07:49Shawn Ryan?

  So they had a lot of confidence in you?

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  They did.

• 1:07:51Shawn Ryan?

  Would they have, would they have other remote viewers on the same project to see if?

• 1:07:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, they would. And but, and the analyst, it, it, the analyst that we were working with, they would ask the, um, they go, what do your, why? The other remote viewers could not work as fast as I could. And they couldn't, I was good at finding things. I was good at describing people. See, I was good at personalities, I was good at finding things. The other remote viewers were just taught, put the picture in the envelope. It's a Soviet structure, they could be building. It was just, it was a different type of, um, I was, I was performing it a different, different way.

• 1:08:40Shawn Ryan?

  Did, were you the only one that had differences from your colleagues? Or were there other unique methods?

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  No, there were two, there were two, there was coordinate remote viewing and extended remote viewing. And then I did my channeling and Dr. Verona decided to call it WRV, written remote viewing.

• 1:09:02Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:09:03Speaker 03

  A girl came in after me, I taught her, she liked, she liked what I did. She was pretty good and, um...

• 1:09:12Speaker 03

  And they gave her a hard time.

• 1:09:14Shawn Ryan?

  Were you guys all centralized?

• 1:09:17Speaker 03

  In the same place?

• 1:09:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:09:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:19Shawn Ryan?

  So can you describe what a... What would a daily routine be like at Stargate?

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  Well, you got... We had two buildings. And one building is where we had our desks and where we would do our reports. And then you had a second building where you would go remote view. So we would have schedules, you know, like on...

• 1:09:43Speaker 03

  There were remote viewing times. I think one was like eight o'clock, maybe eleven o'clock, two o'clock. So we would have schedules on when to remote view. And then if we weren't remote viewing, we would come over and just do administrative-type things. And sit at our desks, we would type reports.

• 1:10:06Speaker 03

  You know, we... It was hard... It was hard to work. You can't work a psychic eight hours a day.

• 1:10:14Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm. When... When, um... In the other building, in the remote viewing building, what would the... What would the setting be like?

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  You would walk into a room and there would be a sofa... There would be a couch. And you could sit there if you wanted to and relax. And then there was a hallway, and then there were two rooms. And there was a restroom. And the two rooms would have a chair and a desk and a bed. And then you would go in the back, and it was a huge room with a big table. And you could sit there and do... You could remote view. And that room had a lot of, um... If you needed maps, if you need... If you were remote viewing and you needed information, it would be... You had maps, you had books there.

• 1:11:04Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, I mean, this, I mean, I just, man, I wanna understand the science behind this so bad.

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:11:11Shawn Ryan?

  So when you remote view and you say that it's an energy field that you're tapping into, or the ether, or, I mean, does that mean that everything has already happened?

• 1:11:26Speaker 03

  No, it doesn't. You, it's easy. It's easy to remote view the past and it's easy to remote the present because the footprint is there.

• 1:11:39Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:11:39Speaker 03

  Now, if you're asking me to remote view the future, I can remote view the future, but the future has a tendency to change. It's not, the footprint isn't there. So it's harder sometimes to read the future than the past and the present.

• 1:11:56Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. Is it, is it a, is it mentally exhausting?

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness, yes. Yeah.

• 1:12:06Shawn Ryan?

  What does it feel like?

• 1:12:07Speaker 03

  It, I just, I just couldn't, there, there were times I just couldn't work. I had done the, I had found a fugitive, a customs agent that went bad. Charles Jordan. They brought me in on that case. We were having some, we were having good luck with the hostages and we were doing some other locational work that, that I was having success with. So there was a, there was a TV program, The Ten Most Wanted. It was a ten, um, and there was a man named Charles Jordan. He was on the Ten Most Wanted list.

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  He was a customs agent that went rogue. He, he took the, the cut, the money from the drugs and he didn't wanna be, he went dirty. He was dirty. So customs called in Dr. Verona and said, "We're looking for this guy." And you know, in police or military organizations, if you, somebody, if they're dirty, that, you know, that you really, they really want that guy bad. To think that's, the whole mentality is we gotta have him because he, you know, he's just, he's bad. So, um, I went into session with Fern and all he did is he asked me, "Where was Charles Jordan?" And it came out, I said, "Lavo, Wyoming." And it came out like that. It just came out. And...

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  He looked at me and he said, he was from Lowell, Massachusetts. No, I said, the guy was in Lowell, Wyoming. Infern said, well, I was born in Lowell, Massachusetts. Are you sure you mean Wyoming? And I said, yes, because I had the feeling of the West, you know, the Wild West. That whole feeling came over me. And I said, no, it's Wyoming. So we had, we had some maps there and we were looking through the United States maps. And we looked at Wyoming. And he said, well, there's a Lowell, Wyoming, not Lowell. So I spelled it L O W E L L, but it was really L O V E L L. And I said, well, that's close enough.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  And then I wanted to leave. And I think he wanted me to work more because you, you know, in the government, you just can't have a report saying Lowell, Lowell, Wyoming. So I, but I couldn't. I, I figured that was it.

• 1:14:33Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  And we didn't think we had credit for it, but we did. We found out years later that nobody believed me what I said. And then they found him. And when they did the reenactment in 1995, the custom, we said, oh, it's too bad we didn't get credit for the, um, you know, for finding the guy. They said, oh, no, it was because of my information. They said, the man, Charles Jordan, the one at the, um, he sent his mother a picture of himself to show her that he was healthy and that he was okay. And when they saw the pictures, they saw the Wyoming license plate. And so they knew I was right.

• 1:15:15Speaker 03

  And then they started looking up in Wyoming and a security guard at Yellowstone saw him. But they said, no, it was because of me. It, it turned the whole search around.

• 1:15:25Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  And they found him.

• 1:15:27Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Okay, now, you ask about automatic writing. It is spirit writing. Have you ever heard of it?

• 1:15:33Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 1:15:34Speaker 03

  It is, it's, it's like you get, um, people say it's your higher self. I feel it's, it's a guide. You know, we all have guides or angels. Okay, so I was, so what happened was is I was writing, spirit writing, and the spirit kind of identified himself as George. Okay, now you're, I want to tell you the story because you're talking about negative and positive.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  My sister came home one night from work. And I said, hey, I said, I'm doing channeling here from a guy, little guy named George. So my sister said, oh, well, I want to do that. So she started writing and she said, well, I got a little guy here named Maury. She called him Maury. And at one point, Maury said, I am a negative spirit. So I said, Louise, I said, stop doing it. I said, because I heard, you know, you can get these negative spirits and then they attach to you. And we don't, we know, we want everything to be good. So she said, okay. So then I think she started writing to another guy. And every once in a while, this little Maury would pop up and he'd say, hey, I'm here. And I am a negative spirit.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  So we were getting like, kind of nervous.

• 1:16:47Shawn Ryan?

  You, you, you had interaction with him too, as well?

• 1:16:50Speaker 03

  My sister did.

• 1:16:51Shawn Ryan?

  Just your sister?

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  And every once in a while, he would pop up. So I didn't know what to do. So, um.

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  I think, I don't know who I talked to. It could have been somebody at work, because I was getting. And they said, oh, your sister needs psychiatric help. So I went back to my sister and I said, Louise, do you think you need psychological help? She said, probably. So we kept writing. She said, probably.

• 1:17:17Shawn Ryan?

  Who doesn't?

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  She said, probably. And I said, I don't know about this. I don't know about Maury. So, um, but we kind of liked him and he was sticking around. And he was giving us pretty good information about, um. He was giving information about my mother's dead relatives, who we didn't know. So my, you know, he'd give us information and my sister would call my mother and she'd say, oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. And, um, he said that my one cousin was going to have a baby. They've been trying to adopt for years. And, oh, yeah, they're going to get their girl on March nineteenth, which they did. So he was pretty accurate, but then he would say, oh, and by the way, I am a negative spirit. So.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  Um, I went to see Fred Mansbridge because this astrology woman told my sister, we should go see Fred Mansbridge. So the night before my sister went to see Mansbridge, she was gonna have the first session with him. Maury said, "I am, tonight I am leaving you forever." And he, and we said, "Oh." By that time, you know, we had him around for about a month. And we're like, "Oh, you don't have to leave. You're okay." And I, and I said, "Don't tell anybody he's negative," because we really liked him. So he said, "No, this is it. I'm leaving you forever." So the next night, the next day when my sister went to see Fred Mansbridge, my sister said, "I'm channeling through a guide named Maury."

• 1:18:45Speaker 03

  And Fred Mansbridge said, "No, no, no, no. You're got, you're, um, you're channeling through a guide named Maurice. Maurice is the positive and Maury is the negative. Address the guide as Maurice." So from that point on, she addressed him as Maurice, and Maury did leave her forever.

• 1:19:04Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Wow.

• 1:19:08Speaker 03

  Maury did leave her forever. So he really wasn't bad. He was good. I mean, we liked him. He was, we liked him. And we're like, "Oh, you know, you don't have to go and..."

• 1:19:18Shawn Ryan?

  So what you're saying is for every positive, there's a negative?

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:19:22Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Fascinating stuff.

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  That's why it does it. And I thought, "Well, there's your answer on your negativity."

• 1:19:30Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  There's your answer on your negativity.

• 1:19:33Shawn Ryan?

  When they, when they bring you in, is it, is it a single remote viewer? Or do they have, do they bring in a team?

• 1:19:40Speaker 03

  No, it's a single remote viewer.

• 1:19:41Shawn Ryan?

  Single remote viewer?

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can't work with other remote viewers in the same room because you could be picking up what they're thinking.

• 1:19:47Shawn Ryan?

  I was wondering about that.

• 1:19:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, you always, yeah. Even whenever people work in groups, when you go to these metaphysical, um, churches, or they put remote, they put psychics in a group, and then every psychic will say, you could be picking up on, um, on what the other psychic said. So no, it's, you'd always go one at a time.

• 1:20:07Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Interesting.

• 1:20:10Shawn Ryan?

  Angela, let's take a, let's take a quick break.

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:20:14Shawn Ryan?

  And then when we come back, I want to talk about, I'd like to ask you about just some, some personal ventures, maybe that you have never shared or that you've gone on.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:20:28Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 1:21:02Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to invite you to gain access to an exclusive experience on Vigilance Elite Patreon. Our patrons are the driving force behind the success of this show and their support allows us to keep doing what we do. Depending on the tier you choose, you'll get access to benefits like behind the scenes footage before each interview, early access to episodes, end of the month live Zoom calls with me, exclusive merch, and more. Join us and become a patron starting at just $5 a month by visiting patreon.com/vigilanceelite. That's patreon.com/vigilanceelite.

• 1:21:43Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for listening to The Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave The Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show.

• 1:22:04Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Angela, we're back from the break and I wanted to kind of pause on your career for a minute and I wanted to ask you about, you know, maybe some personal ventures that you've used remote viewing for. And so, kind of what I'm, I mean, if I knew how to tap into this, I would, I would, I just have so many questions about the past, about religion, about UFOs, about all kinds of stuff. And so I'm wondering if you use this

• 1:22:47Shawn Ryan?

  to, for your own curiosity?

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. I would, oh, of course. Yeah, I read it. I would read anything I could on it.

• 1:22:58Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, so, here's an example. I would love to know, maybe what, what some of the things were happening in World War II, or, or the Bible, or just big questions.

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  Oh, you mean use your psychic abilities to kind of figure it out?

• 1:23:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yes, ma'am.

• 1:23:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I, sometimes.

• 1:23:26Shawn Ryan?

  What, what are some of the-

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  But then sometimes you don't know if you're right, though, but you don't have the feedback and so you don't know if you're right or whatever. So sometimes you have to do, you may be curious about something or think of something and maybe try to figure it out and then maybe it'll just do some research. Maybe your thinking was right, or maybe you, you have to look for your feedback to see if what you were feeling was right.

• 1:23:49Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. What, what are some of the big questions that you've looked into?

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  I guess what goes on after we leave, after we leave this, I guess after our body, our physical body?

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  I, you know, I don't think, I, I sort of think that we sort of go on in some way. Um, and I do believe that there, I was born and raised Catholic. Um, but I had to let go a lot of that, I just had to let a lot of that thinking go. I mean, I like to think that we go on in some way. I do believe that there was a man named Jesus that walked the earth. Um, and, but, you know, there were other people too that were here to teach lessons. Um, and we, my biggest thing was, what, you know, what happens after we go on? I'm interested to know, do we come in reincarnation?

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  I've asked, can, do we come back?

• 1:24:54Shawn Ryan?

  What, what do you believe happens when we die?

• 1:24:59Speaker 03

  I just think you're kind of met, I think you're sort of, you go over with, um, I believe that you go on and that you're reunited with your, with your soul family or with your karma group. The way I understand it is that we come in, we come into, we come into this life with our karma group. The karma, we have karma, good karma and bad karma. So the same people that I was with, I, I just think that, that we, somehow we come back and we come back with the same people.

• 1:25:33Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:25:34Speaker 03

  I believe in, yeah, I do.

• 1:25:35Shawn Ryan?

  What, what would a, what is a karma group?

• 1:25:38Speaker 03

  Well, it's the same, like in other words, the people you know now, you knew before in a past life. Did you ever go somewhere and just felt like, like you knew somebody or that you've been there before?

• 1:25:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:25:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, I've known you, yeah, that's, yeah.

• 1:25:56Shawn Ryan?

  What do you, what do you think deja vu is?

• 1:26:01Speaker 03

  The remembering of a past life.

• 1:26:03Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think it's the remembering of a past life?

• 1:26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, if it happened before, either you were at that place. I felt like I had that with a couple of my animals.

• 1:26:20Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think that?

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  Why do I think what?

• 1:26:26Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think that

• 1:26:29Shawn Ryan?

  we

• 1:26:33Shawn Ryan?

  travel with a karma group?

• 1:26:36Speaker 03

  Because it just makes, because we have things to work out with them, I guess.

• 1:26:43Shawn Ryan?

  Who would be in that karma group?

• 1:26:45Speaker 03

  Friends, relatives, friends, people that you meet all through your life. You know, I just, everybody that you know.

• 1:26:55Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody that, so everybody in the Earth sphere of...

• 1:26:59Speaker 03

  You would know. I think it was explained to me, like, you know, you've got one million people will leave this earth and then one million people will come down to to replace the one million people that left.

• 1:27:11Shawn Ryan?

  Do we immediately come back?

• 1:27:14Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't think so. I think you kind of have to wait for your karma group to figure out, you know, you know, if you come back this time, are you going to be my mother or my sister or my father or...

• 1:27:28Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think that we come back? What have you experienced that makes you believe that?

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  Probably to to get better and to whatever errors we have, try to replace them. Why we, there's a reason why we come back. Do we need to learn more love? Do we need to learn more patience?

• 1:27:51Shawn Ryan?

  Have you have you had any experiences that solidify your beliefs?

• 1:28:00Speaker 03

  Not really. I mean, I can't, I can't, I don't have any scientific evidence. I did have a, I did have one woman put me through a past life. And I don't know if it's true. It was sort of like a hypnotic state where you kind of go and visualize a past life and I think I was in Nova Scotia growing wheat. I remember that. I remember that. But I remember also

• 1:28:30Speaker 03

  there was a religion there that was very strict.

• 1:28:36Speaker 03

  I can remember in whatever under that session, I remembered belonging to an organized religion that was very strict.

• 1:28:47Speaker 03

  And so when I came out of that, I, I, I probably figured, well, the Catholic religion that I grew up with probably, you know, that energy was probably coming from that energy from that past life. And so somehow I just, maybe I cleared myself of it in this life.

• 1:29:09Shawn Ryan?

  Have you, have you looked into, have you tried to look into religion at all, such as the crucifixion?

• 1:29:26Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have? Do you not want to talk about that?

• 1:29:34Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:39Shawn Ryan?

  Do you want to talk about, you had mentioned you'd had a UFO experience?

• 1:29:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, when I was 13 years old, um, this was another thing too that had happened to me.

• 1:29:52Speaker 03

  We were playing, a bunch of us kids, we were playing baseball. It was a spring day and it was, it was right at that time that, um, it, you know, the day goes into, it was dusk where the day goes into the darkness. So we had to quit playing baseball. So we were walking across the baseball field and we heard this and we saw an identified object. It was green light with the ring around it and it just went over us. So we screamed and we yelled and people came out and they pointed to the, um, object. So yeah, I did have a UFO experience. And so that, that all kind of leads you into thinking about stuff too.

• 1:30:37Shawn Ryan?

  It does, it does.

• 1:30:41Shawn Ryan?

  Have you looked into any more UFO type stuff or extraterrestrial?

• 1:30:48Shawn Ryan?

  I spoke with Joe about this and he had, he had, uh,

• 1:30:53Shawn Ryan?

  I don't remember the date, but it was.

• 1:30:59Shawn Ryan?

  I don't remember the date, it was B.C. And they wanted him to remote view Mars. And he had remote viewed some type of a pyramid that that, are you familiar with this?

• 1:31:12Speaker 03

  Uh-uh.

• 1:31:15Shawn Ryan?

  Well, he had remote viewed Mars, I'm just gonna throw an arbitrary number out, let's say 10,000 B.C. It's probably not 10,000 B.C., but I'm just throwing a number out. And he'd remote viewed Mars and, and, and had, uh, his experience basically, if I remember correctly, there was pyramids. And it looked like people were evading something and they were using that as some type of a, some type of a protective shelter.

• 1:31:45Shawn Ryan?

  Have you remote viewed any, have you remote viewed anything in space?

• 1:31:51Speaker 03

  Um, yes, but that, yes, but I don't, but I don't, I didn't trust the, no. I did, but I don't trust the information because I was remote viewing Mars, but I, I, I didn't trust the information or the feedback because I don't think it was known at the time.

• 1:32:08Shawn Ryan?

  What did you, what was the feedback?

• 1:32:12Speaker 03

  Um, I can't even remember, but it didn't make sense.

• 1:32:17Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:18Speaker 03

  It was at, it was at, it was at Fort Meade, there was, there was one guy there, he wanted everybody to remote view Mars. But the protocol, he would, it wasn't good, it just was, it was, it wasn't a clean protocol. And I just didn't trust the, and I don't even remember because I don't trust the session and I don't trust the information.

• 1:32:39Shawn Ryan?

  So you don't trust anything unless you get, unless you get the feedback?

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  Well, in remote viewing, yeah.

• 1:32:46Shawn Ryan?

  Or the?

• 1:32:47Speaker 03

  In remote viewing. But see, a lot of this stuff, like, a lot of times I read or I have my own personal feelings on stuff, but I don't know, but I kinda have my own feeling on things, how things go or whatever. But, you know, in the psychic world, if I'm performing, I would need the feedback, even if I give psychic readings. You just, it's sort of, I kinda have to take what my thoughts are or what my beliefs are, I just take it out of the equation.

• 1:33:16Shawn Ryan?

  Is that hard for you to do?

• 1:33:18Speaker 03

  No, because I just, I know what I believe and I just know what you can, what I can't. Uh-uh, uh-uh.

• 1:33:28Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you believe what you believe?

• 1:33:32Speaker 03

  Because...

• 1:33:33Shawn Ryan?

  With reincarnation?

• 1:33:36Speaker 03

  To me, it makes sense. To me, it makes sense.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  I had a lot of questions about

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  why I felt certain things, or why I thought a certain way. And when I started to study about reincarnation, or what I... It closed up a lot of answers for me. It just, it just made... I didn't believe in reincarnation at first, because I was born Catholic. But once I overcame that hurdle, and started saying, "This could be possible", I even, I even opened up more psychically. It was like I had to get that belief system...

• 1:34:28Speaker 03

  It just was another, it was just made... Somehow, on some level, it made sense, and it just opened me up more.

• 1:34:35Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting, interesting.

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  It didn't scare me. It was like, you know, that makes sense.

• 1:34:41Speaker 03

  I guess energy doesn't die. You know, we can come back.

• 1:34:45Shawn Ryan?

  Have you had any visions of past lives?

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  Well, I had the one woman, like I said, with the Nova Scotia. But that was like a hypnotherapist. She kind of put me under. But, yeah, I feel like I may have been in England at some point. But I do, I do, I have, I had a dog. I knew, I... God, that dog, just, I felt a pat. I just knew I went through something with that dog. And I have a cat now, that I just feel like I'm... I just feel that, it's just something you feel. I guess you can't, you just can't...

• 1:35:23Shawn Ryan?

  It's an intuition.

• 1:35:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  But there are certain things I like to watch on, certain things that I watch, or I'm attracted to, or... You know, and I often wonder, well, if I have a strong attraction to something, or if I'm obsessed with something, maybe I'll do some research or whatever, and I'll think, well, maybe, maybe there's a connection there. But I don't know what it is for sure.

• 1:35:53Shawn Ryan?

  You had mentioned, I mean, you had mentioned, I can't remember if it was on a break or if it was earlier in today's interview, but you had mentioned that you believe we all have angels.

• 1:36:04Speaker 03

  Or guides.

• 1:36:06Shawn Ryan?

  Or guides. Where do those come from?

• 1:36:09Speaker 03

  I guess from the heavenly realms, from the invisible realms. You know, they call it beyond the veil or the veil, I guess there's just a veil that kind of separates the sea. We see things here, but it's just a thin veil to see into the other realms. And I think that's where they come from.

• 1:36:31Shawn Ryan?

  Do you believe in a higher power, like God?

• 1:36:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that there is. Yeah, and I think that God gives us a lot of free will. And I think that man makes, you know, I think God gives us a lot of free will. And that mankind may be, like, just keeps doing what we're doing.

• 1:36:59Shawn Ryan?

  What about extraterrestrials?

• 1:37:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, like I said, I had the, I had the.

• 1:37:10Shawn Ryan?

  The experience?

• 1:37:12Speaker 03

  I had the UFO experience. And whenever I moved into Washington DC, I lived in an apartment in Washington DC. And I was, I live, and I had a woman friend who was, she must have been about 20, 30 years older than me. And I needed to move into Washington DC. And so she brought me to this apartment complex where she used to live. And so my sister and I lived in this apartment, and it was small. So one day, the landlord said that our neighbors were moving out. We could have the larger apartment, which we took. Well, my girlfriend called me up, my woman friend, and she said, I used to live in that apartment.

• 1:37:57Speaker 03

  That's where I used to live. So one time.

• 1:38:02Speaker 03

  One night, I got a little ring outside and she said, uh, my friends are here. We wanna come up and see the apartment. So she came up and, um, and she said, oh, I used to live here in this, you know, your bedroom was where my, the baby's room was. So she was with a woman named Madeline. And Madeline said, um, Ruth, do you remember what happened in this apartment? And Ruth said, no. And she said, this was where the first film of UFOs were shown. And this Madeline worked for an Egyptian researcher named Adamsky. And Adamsky was, he researched UFOs and artifacts.

• 1:38:42Speaker 03

  And they showed, the first film of UFOs was shown in the apartment that I lived in.

• 1:38:49Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:38:50Speaker 03

  I mean, that's not an accident.

• 1:38:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Do you believe UFOs are, I mean, some people believe it's some type of a spiritual entity? And some people believe it's actually nuts and bolts, um,

• 1:39:09Shawn Ryan?

  flying objects with, with extraterrestrials in. What, what, what do you?

• 1:39:14Speaker 03

  Um, I think that the, I think that the, no, if you read the books about civilization, weren't they supposed to be here at one time and help build our, and helped? They're, I think they're here to help us. Are they're supposed to help us?

• 1:39:29Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm. How so?

• 1:39:31Speaker 03

  I don't know. Didn't they come here and kinda at the beginning of Earth, they said when Earth wasn't so, um, I guess they were trying to help. They had visited Earth before and they were to help, they helped mankind is from what I understand.

• 1:39:49Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, there's all kinds of theories out there. Um, I, I am a Christian, so, you know, I believe what I believe, but there's, there's definitely lots of, of theories out there about, um, you know, the pyramids, Stonehenge, all Easter Island, all of these things. And it sounds like, you know, I've interviewed a lot of other people, like, uh, are you familiar with Randall Carlson by chance?

• 1:40:18Speaker 03

  No, what's his, no, what's his?

• 1:40:20Shawn Ryan?

  Uh, Randall basically, uh, you know, in a very dubbed down version, he thinks that the, the-

• 1:40:31Shawn Ryan?

  Basically that the earth resets and

• 1:40:36Shawn Ryan?

  that there were older civilizations that went extinct, that were possibly way more advanced than anything that we have now. And it's like a, it's just a big, it's almost like, sounds like, kinda like reincarnation.

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I could agree with that. A reset. I like that.

• 1:40:54Shawn Ryan?

  A reset.

• 1:40:55Speaker 03

  I like that. That makes sense.

• 1:40:58Shawn Ryan?

  Have you ever remote viewed anything such as that?

• 1:41:04Shawn Ryan?

  The lost city of Atlantis.

• 1:41:08Speaker 03

  I think I did one time, but I thought I was underwater a lot. Did it go underwater?

• 1:41:14Shawn Ryan?

  The Atlantis?

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:15Shawn Ryan?

  Well, nobody's found it.

• 1:41:17Speaker 03

  Okay, cuz I thought I was underwater. Um, no.

• 1:41:28Speaker 03

  Wait, I have, not Atlantis, but, oh, the Stonehenge. Remote view Stonehenge. I felt like that was the, in the pyramids. I felt like there was some type of supernatural help or energy there on both of those.

• 1:41:51Speaker 03

  Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramid.

• 1:41:55Shawn Ryan?

  Is that, is that something that you remote viewed or is that?

• 1:41:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remote viewed and I felt like they were, there was supernatural energy or help that put these things in place.

• 1:42:04Shawn Ryan?

  Can you describe that experience?

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  Um, it was very expanding. I felt like the energy was very expanding and I felt there was a lot of knowledge. And I felt there was a lot of light and goodness.

• 1:42:23Speaker 03

  It was a time of learning. Especially with the Egyptian, I felt like there was,

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  it was very monumental. It was a time of learning. I felt it was good energy. It was all good energy. It was exciting.

• 1:42:43Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting, interesting. What are some

• 1:42:48Shawn Ryan?

  personal ventures that really stick out in your mind?

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  You mean in remote viewing?

• 1:42:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:42:56Speaker 03

  You mean in remote viewing, helping other people? Or remote viewing?

• 1:43:01Shawn Ryan?

  Something that's not on the job.

• 1:43:04Speaker 03

  Oh, how I help somebody?

• 1:43:06Shawn Ryan?

  Your extracurricular, whether it's, whether it's, it's, you're trying to answer your own curiosities? Or it could be helping somebody?

• 1:43:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I did help somebody once. I did help somebody once. And it's, it's a funny story and I lost his number. But I, I got a guy, I got a call, I got a call one night from a guy from New York. And I don't know how he got my number. But he was an older gentleman. And, um, and this is a fun, I mean, this, this is just, he called me up and he said, I've never been married. He said, I want to be married. He says, I want to have children. And I, and I guess I'm going to have to marry somebody younger because he really wanted children. So he said, do you think I'm going to be married? I said, I think you're going to get married. He goes, well, where am I going to meet my wife?

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  Oh, and, and he said, how am I going to meet my wife? And, and I just said, she's your neighbor. And he, you could hear him go, and you could hear him go, what? What are you talking about? What do you mean? She's, I'm thinking of my neighbor. I don't have a neighbor I can meet. What do you mean? So, you know, by that time, I'm just getting, he says, I'm going to go online and I'm going to find a girl. I said, okay, go online. I didn't even, you know, it was like a 10-minute conversation. I, you know, I didn't even charge him money. So about three months later, he calls me up and he goes, hey, I'm, I, I go online, nothing's working out. You think I'm going to get married? I go, you're going to get married.

• 1:44:43Speaker 03

  And he goes, who am I gonna marry? I go, you're gonna marry your neighbor. And he goes, what are you talking about? You're crazy. So we argue and we argue. And he's did this a couple of times. So one time he called. And and I, he goes, this is Abe, and he heard me take a breath. Like, oh, no, here we go again. And he goes, please, please, don't hang up. He goes, please, don't hang up. He said, he goes, guess what? I go, what? I go, he goes, I'm getting married. I said, who are you marrying? He said, my neighbor. So I said.

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  So I said, so so tell. He said, there was a school that that that he had one of, he he lived next to a school or a college or something. And apparently, the girl was going to school there or something. So it was his neighbor. Who and then she happened to be his sister's neighbor. So, you know, but anyway, but I could tell, he could tell by that time, I was ready to hang up the phone with him. And he goes, please, don't hang up, don't hang up, listen to me, listen to me. He goes.

• 1:45:53Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:45:57Speaker 03

  So I go, OK, now are you happy? I think he goes, yeah, I'm happy, I'm happy. But I I I wanted to stay in contact with him, but to find out if he ever had children. But I'm sure he did.

• 1:46:07Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, that's fascinating.

• 1:46:11Shawn Ryan?

  Before we move on with your career also, we had a, I wanted to save, I kind of, I kind of cut it on the break, but you, we were talking about other dimensions. How would you describe other dimensions?

• 1:46:29Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, I guess they're just other, um.

• 1:46:38Speaker 03

  I don't know. I guess.

• 1:46:42Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, how can, um...

• 1:46:46Speaker 03

  Sometimes if you look up at the stars at night, I mean, that's kind of different.

• 1:46:52Speaker 03

  I would feel like that would be a different dimension.

• 1:46:58Shawn Ryan?

  Well, what you were describing was... It sounded like your mother.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, my mother would, um... Now, I have no idea how to even explain this. But she would, um... As she got older in life, my mother was ve... She was very psychic, and as she got older in life, she would call me up and she would say... She was, you know, she was coming home from shopping or from grocery shopping and that she would make a right, you know, she would turn on the road to come home and she would... So she would turn on the road and then she would be somewhere. And she said that she would, she would, um, be there. And she would, you know, she would see beautiful stars or she'd see beautiful scenery.

• 1:47:46Speaker 03

  And then she would sit there for a while and then she would drive home. And then it would hit her later that where... That wherever she turned, there was no road.

• 1:47:57Speaker 03

  So what was she doing? Well, she was going some... She had to be going into another dimension or something.

• 1:48:03Shawn Ryan?

  So you... She's saying she was physically in another dimension?

• 1:48:07Speaker 03

  She had to have been because there were... And she... And when I would go home to visit her, she would say, "This is where I turn," and it would be... There would be no road. It would be cornfields.

• 1:48:20Shawn Ryan?

  What would, what would she experience then?

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  Oh, wonderful. She said, "Oh, it was beautiful." She said that she felt a lot of peace, a lot of love. She felt energized.

• 1:48:32Speaker 03

  And she would have to remind herself that she would have to... Oh, she would kind of get shocked. "Oh, yeah, I better get home." And that happened to her a couple of times.

• 1:48:42Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Have you experienced other dimensions?

• 1:48:46Speaker 03

  Not like that.

• 1:48:49Shawn Ryan?

  But in a different way?

• 1:48:51Speaker 03

  Sometimes head-wise, I feel I'm someplace else. Um...

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  Some, I don't, not like she did, but sometimes I feel, I don't know. Sometimes I feel, I feel like the planet's moving sometimes.

• 1:49:07Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:49:08Speaker 03

  You can feel the planets move.

• 1:49:11Shawn Ryan?

  How so?

• 1:49:13Speaker 03

  I don't know, they just move sometimes.

• 1:49:18Speaker 03

  I don't know, sometimes I feel like my head's just, I don't know.

• 1:49:22Shawn Ryan?

  Is, I'm sorry, I'm bombarding you with questions right now.

• 1:49:31Shawn Ryan?

  Would you say that psychic abilities are a form of

• 1:49:42Shawn Ryan?

  advanced intuition? Like a gut feeling, like, let me, let me, let me give an example. So you're kind of talking about reading energy.

• 1:49:55Shawn Ryan?

  Am I correct? And so, there's a seal.

• 1:50:02Shawn Ryan?

  Entering a room, an unknown room on a, on a target. And I'm clearing the room.

• 1:50:16Shawn Ryan?

  You can feel an energy in there. You can feel who's good, who's bad. You're, you, you enter into kind of somewhat of a flow state. And it becomes

• 1:50:35Shawn Ryan?

  a very intuitive experience. And I've talked to several former colleagues of mine and everybody kind of says the same thing. You're reading energy and, and you're, you're feeling the room and it's, it's, it's intuition, some of it.

• 1:50:56Shawn Ryan?

  It's a gut feeling, you know, or when you're in a place and you feel like something bad's about to happen, sometimes people get a gut feeling. Is that similar to?

• 1:51:07Speaker 03

  That's exactly what it is. And probably you're high, you're working at a higher level than intuition. If you're going into a situation and have to, you know, figure out who's good, who's bad, and you're in a room, it's higher than intuition. Now, they found that a lot of people in the investigative, investigative work, like a lot of cops, they develop that sixth sense.

• 1:51:34Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:35Speaker 03

  Like, all of a sudden, they'll, they'll solve a case all on a hunch, you know, and, and, um, and sometimes, a lot of, they don't want to talk about it because they're afraid they're gonna be laughed at. But yeah, a lot of investigative people, probably a lot of Navy SEALs, you, you develop that, you develop that, you, that's, you have to develop that to survive. So you're probably doing, that, that's more than intuition, that's, you're, it's a, you're, you're, it's, you're operating at a, at a higher, it's more than, but always listen to your gut.

• 1:52:19Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm. I've learned that. I've learned that the hard way several times.

• 1:52:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, and I've, and I've gone against, yeah, me too, and I, yeah, that happens.

• 1:52:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah, I've gone against, just, every time I go against it, I regret it. And so I really try not to do that now, no matter, no matter how excited I am about an opportunity, or, or an individual that I'm about to meet, or, or, yeah, you get, I get a, I get a feeling about it every once in a while, and, and I really try to follow that. So can you, is this something that, that you can, can you tap into it, or is it just switched on all the time?

• 1:53:11Speaker 03

  You mean the intuition. I think it works for you whenever, I think it work, I really think it works for you when you need it. If you walk, if you wanna walk through that door and your intuition is telling you, don't walk through that door, you know, if it's day, it could scream out you really loud, don't, don't walk through that door. And if you listen to your intuition, you wouldn't walk through the door. I think that, um, I don't, sometimes I think your, it can, intuition and your psychic abilities can be very high, and other times, they're not as high. But you can't be psychic all the time at a high level, because then you're gonna be crazy.

• 1:53:55Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. You know, I, in, in, I know there's a lot of naysayers out there about this, and, and, but you know, I think a perfect example of, of this would be, that people can, I can't say relate to, but, if you talk to rape victims, a lot of rape victims had, knew they were in a bad situation before it actually happened, and, do you know what I'm saying? They, they get in, they get a feeling that something's not right, and go against their gut. And then, it happens.

• 1:54:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 1:54:40Shawn Ryan?

  And so, I, I just, I'm trying to bring more common occurrences up to the audience, so that they can-

• 1:54:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, always listen to the gut.

• 1:54:48Shawn Ryan?

  Begin to wrap their head around what we're, what we're speaking about.

• 1:54:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I, but, yeah, I, yeah, I think that, um, I mean, you've had experience where you know, like, you think of somebody and they call.

• 1:55:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:55:04Speaker 03

  Or you know, you know that what's in, you're going out to the mail, but you know what's in the mailbox.

• 1:55:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:55:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's intuition. And that's all good, but I also think too, it, it works at higher, it could, it's more than that. And it, and you can, it's more than that.

• 1:55:21Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, even, uh, manifestation.

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  How do you manifest something? Yeah, a lot of people are into, yeah, how do you manifest what you need? A lot of people, um-

• 1:55:35Speaker 03

  I haven't got that one yet. I haven't. Have you felt like you've manifested things that you wanted in your life?

• 1:55:43Shawn Ryan?

  I do. Several things.

• 1:55:47Shawn Ryan?

  I do it.

• 1:55:49Speaker 03

  How did you do it, visualize or?

• 1:55:52Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I don't.

• 1:55:56Shawn Ryan?

  I don't. And now I'm starting to. I'm understanding how tough these questions can be that I'm asking you. I don't know how to describe it. I do believe I've manifested things. I believe I've manifested. I believe that I've manifested certain things within my family. I believe I've manifested certain things within business. Uh, I believe I've manifested things, not even realizing that I've manifested them. And if you'd like, I could give you a couple of examples.

• 1:56:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, please.

• 1:56:31Shawn Ryan?

  So it's interesting because me and. Me and Laura, who you met, were having a discussion about this. If, if this is all real, I mean, it's, you know, it's a controversial subject. And I said, I think that.

• 1:56:46Shawn Ryan?

  I absolutely believe that it's real because. We don't understand, we only use 10% of our brains supposedly. We don't understand consciousness. And I think we're capable of so much more than we have any. We put the limitations on ourselves. Everybody. There's the old saying, you know, that, that, that, that. There are no limits. Sky's the limit and, and no matter who you are, you're putting some sort of limitation on yourself. You could be the wealthiest man in the world. Well, I still think that there are limitations in his head that are keeping him from achieving.

• 1:57:28Shawn Ryan?

  Other goals, maybe not financial, maybe not business, but anyways.

• 1:57:34Shawn Ryan?

  So some examples would be.

• 1:57:37Shawn Ryan?

  Here's an accidental one that I think may have happened. When I proposed to my wife, I did it in Alaska. And I wanted to, I went there to work with a, with a, with a, with a former SEAL named Jeff Reed, who's an Iditarod racer now. And I went up to shoot some content with him for, um, for YouTube. And when we went up there, I wanted to, it was also a vacation for me and my fiance, my girlfriend at the time, and who's now my wife. And I told Jeff when we got there, I said, hey, I want to propose to my wife here,

• 1:58:21Shawn Ryan?

  and I want to do it under the Northern Lights. Having no idea that, and this is in August, had no idea that Northern Lights never show up in August.

• 1:58:32Speaker 03

  August.

• 1:58:34Shawn Ryan?

  And I believe he said, you'll be lucky if the Northern Lights popped in October. That would be the earliest time that you'll see them. This is Fairbanks, Alaska. Later that night, that same night that I told, and I, I thought, oh shit, all right. Well, I guess I'll, I'll, maybe I'll get a helicopter tour and do it on top of a glacier in Denali National Park or something like that. Well, fast forward that evening, he shoots me a text and says, you're not going to believe this, but the Northern Lights are out right now. And you got about 15 minutes because they never stay out longer than that. And I was like, shit.

• 1:59:17Shawn Ryan?

  I had flown my film crew up and I had to give them a ride from the airport. And they flew in separately. So I went and picked up the first guy, went back, picked up the second guy. That's about an hour and a half's time worth. Then they want to tell me all about their European vacation that they went on and my, and Katie. And I'm freaking out because the northern lights are still kicking an hour and a half later. Then it took me about an hour and a half, two hours to find a place to do it. Went all over the place, the northern lights finally kicked off after two, three hours of lighting up the sky. I finally found my spot.

• 1:59:58Shawn Ryan?

  They went away and I just thought, God, please just give me just, just a glimmer so that I can just propose to my girlfriend here. They came back on. She was passed out. I'm waking her up, I'm going, hey, get up, wake up, we gotta get out. And proposed to her as soon as we kissed. The entire sky lit up with the northern lights.

• 2:00:26Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 2:00:27Shawn Ryan?

  And in August, which apparently is next to impossible.

• 2:00:35Speaker 03

  So you manifested that?

• 2:00:36Shawn Ryan?

  I think so, you know, and I have lots more examples of similar things, you know, with, with every aspect of my life. And then, but that was just me thinking. Fast forward, I had, you know, psychedelics actually really opened my mind up to all of this. And I had, I don't want to get into that now, but that really expanded my mind. It made me realize there are so many more possibilities than we can even imagine. And, and that got me into meditation.

• 2:01:20Shawn Ryan?

  That got me into manifestation. And I thought, you know what? I'm just going to concentrate on one thing that I want to happen is, is without having intrusive thoughts into my head. So I would start meditating, which I've gotten away from that. I would put a Rife machine on. Do you know what a Rife machine is? And I would put a Rife machine on during my meditation. I would let all the thoughts clear my head. Like, uh, the way it was described to me is think of, think of thoughts like clouds and just let them all run through until you're completely at peace. And then think of, think of what you want.

• 2:02:04Shawn Ryan?

  And so I would do that and things would start happening.

• 2:02:11Shawn Ryan?

  So much so that it made me,

• 2:02:18Shawn Ryan?

  it's really made me hesitant to vocalize things out loud about people that I maybe have screwed me over or that I don't like or whatever, because now I'm, I'm, I'm starting, I'm beginning to realize, holy shit, what you throw out into the world might actually happen. And, uh, so I've been very hesitant to...

• 2:02:46Shawn Ryan?

  I don't wish bad on people anymore, and I used to. And then I saw some of those things come to fruition as well. And, uh, and, uh, I realized how powerful thought can actually be.

• 2:03:01Speaker 03

  Meditation is very, very powerful.

• 2:03:06Shawn Ryan?

  Do you meditate?

• 2:03:07Speaker 03

  I try, not as much as I should. I used to do more, but I think it's very powerful.

• 2:03:11Shawn Ryan?

  I do too.

• 2:03:12Speaker 03

  I knew a woman that meditated. She said one day she woke up, she says you, it's, it's like your body becomes like a river. You just flow. And she said she woke up one morning and she said, I just, I wanted an apple. And she said 10 minutes later, a guy was at her door with a bushel of apples.

• 2:03:32Speaker 03

  But, you know, that's just an example, but yeah, um, yeah. It's be careful what you say, but yeah, I know about people. Sometimes you just have to feel, I, I don't even try to, I don't even dislike people anymore. I just let it go.

• 2:03:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:50Speaker 03

  It's, I guess they have their own lessons or whatever.

• 2:03:53Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not quite to that point yet, but I'm working on it.

• 2:03:57Speaker 03

  There's just, there's just so much, I mean, people can be funny sometimes.

• 2:04:01Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:04Shawn Ryan?

  But, well, let's get back to your career at DIA.

• 2:04:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:04:09Shawn Ryan?

  Where did we leave off?

• 2:04:11Speaker 03

  Well, the program ended in 1995, so I was able to, um, the program ended, I had to go back into, I went back to the headquarters at Bowling Air Force Base, and I worked as an analyst. Um, I worked as a, um,

• 2:04:28Speaker 03

  Russian and Chinese analyst working certain issues.

• 2:04:31Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. What ended the program?

• 2:04:34Speaker 03

  Um, I think that when Dr. Verona retired, I think we lost a lot of our support. And it, and they put, and his replacement was a man who I don't think really wanted the program.

• 2:04:49Speaker 03

  And we, Dale Graff had retired, we lost a lot of support. We had a lot of congressional support, we had a lot of, um, uh, we had high support that just went away when certain people retired. And the people coming in, they didn't have the curiosity for the, um, learning, they didn't have, they didn't have the curiosity to try to learn how we think it works. If you go into a session to work, uh, an operational target, they were giving you too much information. Um, it just, they just didn't want us. And I think Congress was, Congress, Congress was trying to help us,

• 2:05:35Speaker 03

  and they thought if we, they could get us to CIA, at least we, we may have, we may have more support. Well, when they transferred us to CIA, CIA said they wanted to do a six-month study. And they did a six-month study, but they never, they never gave, whoever did the study, they did an out, they called in a company from the outside to do a study, to see if ESP works. But they never gave the people the clearances so that they could read the operational successes that we had. And they came out six months later and says, no, this doesn't work. Well, what happened was, we were packing up boxes,

• 2:06:18Speaker 03

  and we were packing up all the information from Fort Meade, and it ended up in Langley. And after they closed the program, I was back at at Bowling, working for DIA, and I got a call from a guy at the Department of Defense, a policymaker. And he said, he said, he wanted to go, he was a policymaker in charge of special access programs. And he was curious as to why that program was shut down. So he called me up and said, let's go to the CIA and get the documents. He wanted to see, he wanted to see the documents to find out why it was shut down,

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  whenever he knew there was some good work coming out of there. So when we went to retrieve the documents, the documents were never opened. So they never let, the documents were never opened for anybody to review them to see if, if, if, if we were good, if we ever solved any problems. So I think the CIA did not want us.

• 2:07:29Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 2:07:30Speaker 03

  And I think the CIA gets blamed for everything. No matter what goes wrong, the CIA gets blamed for everything. And I think the CIA had that one program back in, what, the 50s and 60s, where they were, where they were

• 2:07:48Speaker 03

  doing mind control on people and giving people LSD. And Congress had to stop that. And I, and George Tennant was, was the head of the CIA at the time. And I think he just didn't want to take it on. It would have been too much of a headache.

• 2:08:04Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 2:08:05Speaker 03

  And, and also too, I think they had to start getting rid of smaller programs. There was the downside. And there was budget too. And so I think CIA must have, I think they got a message from Congress saying, get rid of your small programs or something. And they got scared, so they just erased them. But I do think that they did not give the program, when they brought in that agency to say whether or not this can be used in an operational mode, I don't think that we were given a fair shake, because it was used in an operational mode, and we've had successes.

• 2:08:42Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that the program continued on under a different name at a later date?

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  And if it did not even be when our program existed, we had it was congressionally mandated. We had the remote viewers, we had the research that we had research going on, we were the government was paying Stanford, they were pay, we had a lot of research money going out. And then we had the foreign assessment, meaning we had an analyst looking at what other countries were doing. So it was a robust, it was a robust um program. Plus, we need so now I when I went back to D I A and worked, a lot of people would say,

• 2:09:31Speaker 03

  oh, I remote view and I wrote and and I'm in touch and this is what I get and this is what I don't know, I don't think there was. And even if there was, they weren't doing it in the formal way that was being done. And if it was being done, where was the information given to to help people? I don't think so. I just don't think so. And also, if if a program were to to exist, at some point, they would have had to look at the science. And if they would have looked at the science, certain people would have been contacted, like Ed May, S R I. No, I don't think so. Do you think so? A lot of people say, oh, it's going on, it's going on.

• 2:10:16Shawn Ryan?

  I do think I do think so.

• 2:10:19Speaker 03

  Why do you say that?

• 2:10:26Shawn Ryan?

  Because because I've had former colleagues tell me that they've seen they've seen them bring them in.

• 2:10:39Speaker 03

  Bring them bring what in?

• 2:10:42Shawn Ryan?

  Bring remote viewers in.

• 2:10:43Speaker 03

  Okay. And that could be because I met a kid in Florida who said he was he could move, he could, he could move up, he, you know, he bent coins and that, and I think he was brought in by the C I A.

• 2:10:57Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 2:10:58Speaker 03

  But that's not so that's one thing, but that's not a program. I mean, that's yeah, maybe, maybe so. I mean.

• 2:11:08Speaker 03

  Maybe they do bring people in and use them. Police agencies bring psychics in and use them. Are the people getting paid? Are they getting paid?

• 2:11:19Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know. I didn't personally see them. But people that are very close to me, that I've worked very close with, that I still have relationships with today, have told me about this before I even knew what the hell remote viewing was.

• 2:11:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:11:37Shawn Ryan?

  Like, "Did you see that? They just brought remote viewers in." And I go, "What the hell is a viewer?" And now, today, I've reached back out and I'm like, "I remember when you told me this."

• 2:11:52Speaker 03

  I mean, maybe they were, but it still didn't make it a... I guess we were mandated, I guess. You know, we would go to a building and work. If you bring somebody in, that's different. Are you paying them?

• 2:12:08Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I don't have the answers to those questions. But I'd like to move on. I know you have... You want to talk about Yuri Geller.

• 2:12:21Speaker 03

  Okay. I have a Yuri Geller story. Okay. In 2000... I retired from the federal government in 2010.

• 2:12:30Speaker 03

  Now, in 2015... No, 2014. Annie Jacobson wrote... She interviewed people for her book.

• 2:12:42Shawn Ryan?

  Phenomenal.

• 2:12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. I got a call... So I was interviewed by Annie for her book. And one night, I received an email from her, and she was going over some of my training targets. And she liked one of my training targets. It was the St. Louis Ark. And she said... And she wanted to use that for the book because I did a good job in remote viewing, the St. Louis Ark. So...

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  So she emailed me and she said, you know, read this, is this right? I want to put the, you know, what you did about the St. Louis Ark in the book. And I said, and I emailed her back and I said, yeah, I'll, I'll give you information. And then she emailed me back and she says, can you do it now? I'm kind of in a hurry. I'm leaving for Israel tomorrow. I'm gonna, uh, Yori Geller invited her to his house to come out. And I said, well, I thought you already interviewed him because she went to England to interview him. And she said, she said, no, I interviewed him in England, but I've never been to Israel. And he asked me to go, he asked me to go to Israel. So I said, oh, well, good for you.

• 2:13:56Speaker 03

  So I guess while she was over there, so we ended on the note that we were talking about the St. Louis, the St. Louis Ark, you know, she wanted that information before she left. So she went over to Israel and she was spending time with Yori. And at one point she said, um, I want to buy postcards for my family. And they were in a tea shop. So the owner of the tea shop came over and he said, my postcards are on that top, are on that top shelf. So Yori Geller went over, I guess either her or Yori Geller went over. And I think it was him. He reached up on the, um, and no, I think it was him because he reached up on the shelf and he picked out a postcard for her.

• 2:14:39Speaker 03

  And here it was the St. Louis Ark.

• 2:14:44Speaker 03

  And that's what she, and, and that's what her and I were discussing before she left. So when she saw the picture, she knew, she identified it with me. Wow. And she freaked, I guess she kind of freaked out and she said, oh, you're not going to believe this. But, um, she was using that this, the St. Louis Ark is one of her, um, for information for the paper. So anyway, I think she kind of freaked out. So she's like, oh, my goodness, why this, of all things, why the St. Louis Ark in Israel? So anyway, he signed it for me. It says, for Angela, much energy and love, Yori Geller. And then he drew a picture.

• 2:15:25Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, so what is the, that's incredible. What is the, what was the story behind your remote viewing of the St. Louis Ark?

• 2:15:35Speaker 03

  It was just a training target that I did, and I did a very good job. And she just wanted to put it in the book. Like, this, you know, this viewer was tasked. In other words, the St. Louis Ark is an ark, and when I remote viewed it, I, you know, drew the ark. It was just something that she wanted to show in the book. And in the book, she describes my remote viewing session of the St. Louis Ark. And when she emailed me, she said that this was an excellent session, I want to put it in the book. And she needed more information from me about the St. There was nothing significant about it. It was just a training target that I remote viewed at one time,

• 2:16:18Speaker 03

  and that she wanted information on it right before she left, before she went to meet Yuri Geller, because she was impressed with the target. So my last conversation with her was about the St. Louis Ark. So when she went to see Yuri, and he picked up the, the, um...

• 2:16:38Shawn Ryan?

  Not a coincidence.

• 2:16:39Speaker 03

  She, she completely thought of me, and she was like, oh, my goodness, you know, I just... Couple of days ago, she was discussing this with me.

• 2:16:48Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I mean, what do you make of stuff like that?

• 2:16:53Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:16:54Shawn Ryan?

  Does that, does that have to do with the creating your own reality at all?

• 2:16:59Speaker 03

  I don't know, I mean, I don't know.

• 2:17:06Shawn Ryan?

  You and Yuri Geller, Yuri Geller worked together, correct?

• 2:17:09Speaker 03

  No, I never met him.

• 2:17:11Shawn Ryan?

  What is the Catch, the Catch Spy story?

• 2:17:17Speaker 03

  What story is that?

• 2:17:18Shawn Ryan?

  I have in my notes. Angela helped up, excuse me, Scott.

• 2:17:23Speaker 03

  Carmichael.

• 2:17:25Shawn Ryan?

  Scott.

• 2:17:26Speaker 03

  No, I was on CBS Sunday Morning News. I was interviewed, and Yori was interviewed too for that program, but we weren't interviewed at the same time.

• 2:17:36Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:17:37Speaker 03

  So I did have that connection. Well, that came after the book.

• 2:17:42Shawn Ryan?

  How did you catch a spy?

• 2:17:46Speaker 03

  I, this was, I was approached by, after the program ended and I was back at DIA working as an analyst, you know, people would approach me to, can you do this? Can you do that? Because they knew what I did and sometimes I'd help them, sometimes I wouldn't. But I, but there was one man that really wanted help and he, he asked if, if, he asked me if I would help him and I think, you know, he got the okay from some higher ops, but we had to do it on private time. We couldn't do it on government time. So I was helping this man out do, it was a very sensitive project

• 2:18:31Speaker 03

  and I was helping him, but whatever information I was getting, I don't know what I was getting because I didn't even know what the operation was. I gave him some information and he called in a colleague of his by the name of Scott Carmichael. And he said, Scott, I have some information here that I know what you're working on and this information may be helpful to, you know, for some of your friends over at the State Department. By friends, he meant people that he worked with that share information with the State Department. And Scott said, well, how did you get this information? And the guy, and the man said, I got it by, from a psychic. And Scott said, from a psychic?

• 2:19:16Speaker 03

  Are you crazy? I'm not going to go to the State Department and tell them that this information came from a psychic. He said, I wouldn't, I'm not going to do that. So anyway, Scott said that he left, but he said, you know, he had this problem. He had this. He had this case that he just couldn't get um out of his mind, he just couldn't get out of his mind. So he went back to my friend. And he said, how, he said, you know, how, how do, how does this work? So the guy said, well, here, just put what, give, what do you wanna know? And they'll make up a little envelope and they'll put something in the envelope.

• 2:20:00Speaker 03

  And they'll mix the envelope in with this guy's stuff. And then they'll pick it out and some point I would be working on Scott's project. So I guess one day I woke up or when they gave me this project. And I don't know what I said, I identified a guy as, I think Baker. I said the last name was Baker, maybe the first name was Jeff. And I said he was Australian. I said he was Australian and he was gonna sell US secrets. Well, that came out immediately. So Scott came back and he said that was right. He, they said that there was, what happened was

• 2:20:41Speaker 03

  the United States had a unit in Australia that worked with the Australians and they were imagery analysts. And I guess one of the imagery analysts tried to sell, he, um, when you try to sell secrets, you'd never use your real name. So they knew his real name wasn't Jeff Baker, but they didn't know who he was. So now we know that they knew what, whatever I said was right. But now they came back to me and they said, who was Jeff, who was Jeff Baker? So I described him as an Australian. I said, what did he look like? I said his age range, I said he was on drugs.

• 2:21:23Speaker 03

  And um, I don't know what else I said, but, so now they kinda had a profile of this person. And um, so now they were trying to look for him. Now Scott worked for the FBI because if there's any spies, the FBI always arrests them because that's the arresting agency. But Scott did not tell the FBI he was working with a psychic because he said if it ever went to court, it would, may have been thrown out because they received information from a psychic. So we were kind of going along with the case and Scott didn't think I was doing too good, but in retrospect, I don't think they were asking the questions right, and he even

• 2:22:05Speaker 03

  admitted that. But we, there seemed to be, it seemed to be I did really good at the beginning and then things were kind of going, weren't going real good. And then, I don't know what I said. I said there was going to be a meeting that was going to take place. I felt that the guy would be apprehended and, and there was supposed to be a meeting on a certain day. Well, now, when this kid, when this person went to the Singapore Embassy to sell the secrets, the Singapore Embassy contacted the United States and said, there's a guy here trying to sell your secrets. So something was set up, like, like a, what

• 2:22:50Speaker 03

  do you call one of those plans where you try to lure the guy in? Sting. Sting. So at that point, they decided to do a sting operation. And at that time, I was kind of losing, I really wasn't doing really good at the case. But I don't know what happened. I was able to provide some information and I can't even remember what it is. Scott wrote a Kindle book called Unconventional Method. But at that point, I, I didn't feel, I felt like this is, this is, I knew it wasn't going real well. But Scott came in, the FBI agent asked Scott to come in on a Sunday to work. They really

• 2:23:32Speaker 03

  wanted to work the case. And Scott started to read some message traffic. And he said, he doesn't, whatever I said, whatever scenarios I was describing, this information was in this message traffic.

• 2:23:49Speaker 03

  And and Scott said, I think we this guy, his last name was Wes Pierre. He was Australia. Scott said, I think this is our guy. That this is the guy we want. He's Australian. And the FBI agent said, no. The person we're looking for is Canadian. And they went back and forth and Scott kept saying, are you sure he's not Australian? And she said, no, he's Canadian. So Scott said, well, let me look something up because you can have dual citizenship. And here the guy had dual citizenship. He was Australian and Canadian. And here that was the guy that that they were able to apprehend.

• 2:24:33Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:24:36Shawn Ryan?

  What does it feel like to you when you?

• 2:24:38Speaker 03

  Oh, I was all happy because I hate to be wrong. I mean, I'm very happy when I'm right. Because you're not right all the time. You know, it's not, you don't always get it. I mean, I've I can remote view and um. You know, it can be very vague. It can be very, very vague. You know, you know, it can be very vague. And a lot of times you're not right. Or a lot of times you may feel that you're right, but people aren't there to check out the information. So if you had, you know, if I'm giving information and it's right and somebody checks it out and it's right and it go into the hits. Oh, I'm very happy.

• 2:25:17Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 2:25:20Shawn Ryan?

  What is your, what is?

• 2:25:24Shawn Ryan?

  What is your, your favorite operation that you've been a part of?

• 2:25:28Speaker 03

  Um, I think the one with the finding the guy in the finding George, um, Charles Jordan, the fugitive. He was the, the, the customs agent, the narc, the drug guy that went bad. I think that probably was the biggest because nobody ever thought he would be in Wyoming. That I did like doing the hostages because I felt like I was really, I felt like my information was acted upon to help them. So that made me feel good.

• 2:26:02Shawn Ryan?

  Anything with kids?

• 2:26:05Speaker 03

  Yes, but I, yes.

• 2:26:08Shawn Ryan?

  Can you go into that?

• 2:26:09Speaker 03

  Um, well. Yeah, I, yeah, I trying to locate some kids that may have been human trafficking, yeah.

• 2:26:19Speaker 03

  That was hard. That was hard. I was able to give some locations, but I don't know if they, but I never had any feedback on that. So I figured it probably didn't go anywhere. But it could have been more of a secret, more of a secret type operation, too.

• 2:26:37Shawn Ryan?

  So now you're teaching at the Monroe Institute?

• 2:26:40Speaker 03

  Well, I only teach the remote view part two. It's on, you know, like, I only teach twice, twice a year, but it's always nice to connect with Joe.

• 2:26:49Shawn Ryan?

  Do you enjoy it?

• 2:26:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Just, oh, you know, Joe, we just, oh, yeah.

• 2:26:55Shawn Ryan?

  Have you ever worked with Joe?

• 2:26:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, he's wonderful.

• 2:26:58Shawn Ryan?

  Out, have you, in the old days?

• 2:27:01Speaker 03

  No, he, he retired in 1984, and I came in the unit in 1986.

• 2:27:06Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, okay.

• 2:27:08Speaker 03

  But I bet him through Ed May, and then I, and but, yeah, he's wonderful.

• 2:27:11Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I, I got nothing but good things to say about him and his wife, but, um, so what is, tell me a little bit about the Monroe Institute.

• 2:27:21Speaker 03

  Well, it's, uh, Bob Monroe was a man. I guess he lived in New York City. He was a radio personality, I think. I think. I don't know if he owned a radio station, but he used to have out of bodies, and I guess he went to a psychologist because he thought he was crazy. And the guy said, no, you're not crazy. You're having out of body experiences. So he built the Monroe Institute, and people can go down there, and when you listen to certain frequencies, it's, it's, it's called, it's like, it's just teaching people how to be psychic, how to go out of body. It's, it's a, like a metaphysical institute.

• 2:28:01Shawn Ryan?

  So can you walk us through what you teach?

• 2:28:03Speaker 03

  Oh, I just teach the second part of remote. I just teach the, uh, remote viewing two, the last segment. And it's not, it's just, nothing mu, I mean, it's nothing much. You just put the, um, you talk to the students, you see what they learned, you know, what did you learn, uh, look at their results, um.

• 2:28:27Speaker 03

  You have to teach them how to report back. I think a lot of times when you teach people to remote view, I think people can get the picture in the target, but it's hard to come out and describe what you see. So, teaching people how to remote, how to come back and remote, report back. And just getting to know the students, finding out, you know, where, at what level are they? A lot of times, I recommend books to read if, you know, if they're interested in meditation, channeling. I tell them what books I would recommend. I listen to people. Sometimes, something will work for one person, but not the other.

• 2:29:09Shawn Ryan?

  So, do you sit in with the, do you sit in their sessions with them?

• 2:29:13Speaker 03

  No, I usually, some, I just do it by Zoom, mostly.

• 2:29:16Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, okay, it's by Zoom. So, what, so, it's, so it's individual?

• 2:29:21Speaker 03

  Sometimes it is. No, it's with the group, but sometimes it, individuals can special attention.

• 2:29:27Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, okay. So, what, I mean, what is the curriculum of the, of part two?

• 2:29:36Speaker 03

  Joe teaches them how to remote view. And then I get them at the end to see how well they remote viewed. And then they do have questions on other things. And then we kind of take it out of remote viewing. They have a lot of questions on other things.

• 2:29:53Shawn Ryan?

  What other things?

• 2:29:54Speaker 03

  Like, channeling.

• 2:29:56Shawn Ryan?

  What is channeling?

• 2:29:57Speaker 03

  The automatic writing.

• 2:29:59Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:30:00Speaker 03

  They just want other, meditation, like, meditation, how they remote view. You know, how, you know, how are they remote viewing? Are they, you don't, I don't want them to do the steps like the CRV.

• 2:30:22Speaker 03

  And have to report back, mostly. By the time I have them, they know how to remote view.

• 2:30:27Shawn Ryan?

  Do they do the hemisync?

• 2:30:30Speaker 03

  No, the hem, I don't think they do the hemisync in remote viewing. They do it in something else. If you want hemisync, you have to go to the Monroe Institute and sign up for that. That's not remote viewing.

• 2:30:42Shawn Ryan?

  What is hemisync, then?

• 2:30:43Speaker 03

  They put, you put, you listen to, to sound. You listen to music. And it works the brain a certain way so that you can go out of body.

• 2:30:56Shawn Ryan?

  So is it... Can you describe that a little bit more in detail? Why that works?

• 2:31:04Speaker 03

  Because it's the mechanisms in the brain. It's the mechanism... The brain has to work a certain way for you to go out of body. And that's what the music or the sounds of the hemisync do. They put your body in the frequency so that you can... You have to have a certain frequency so you can go out of body.

• 2:31:27Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:31:28Speaker 03

  And that's what Monroe did. That's what the Monroe Institute was all about. Teaching people how to go out of body. And what... And where does the brain... How... What frequency does the brain need to be so you can go out of body?

• 2:31:46Shawn Ryan?

  Can I ask a question? Why does it... What is the point of going out of body? Why would you trigger that?

• 2:31:55Speaker 03

  Um, probably to...

• 2:31:59Speaker 03

  I think that it expands one's consciousness. Uh, I think one can learn that there's more to life than just going out of body. I think that if you... It's better than remote viewing. Because if you have a, um... If you have a prob... If you want a problem... If you're looking for somebody and you can leave your body and go find them, you're gonna have all your senses and all of your thinking. It's not gonna be fuzzy. You're gonna be so aware of where you are, where the person is. You can come back and report that. It's not gonna be so fuzzy as remote viewing, where you're only using like the right part of the brain.

• 2:32:46Shawn Ryan?

  Do you still... Do you still go out of body?

• 2:32:48Speaker 03

  Sometimes, but not like I used to.

• 2:32:51Shawn Ryan?

  Why not? Is that a personal decision?

• 2:32:53Speaker 03

  No, no, I have no control over it. I never did. I never did.

• 2:33:02Shawn Ryan?

  Do you like going out of body?

• 2:33:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:33:05Shawn Ryan?

  If you were out of body right now, what would you... Would you be searching for an answer to something?

• 2:33:11Speaker 03

  I'd probably be looking at everything around here.

• 2:33:18Shawn Ryan?

  Where's the farthest you've traveled to?

• 2:33:20Speaker 03

  I think the sun. I think the sun.

• 2:33:22Shawn Ryan?

  What was that like?

• 2:33:23Speaker 03

  Ha, uh, bright, very bright.

• 2:33:24Shawn Ryan?

  I would imagine.

• 2:33:25Speaker 03

  Very bright. I was very happy. I remembered.

• 2:33:31Shawn Ryan?

  Can you feel? Can you feel heat?

• 2:33:35Shawn Ryan?

  Can you feel cold? Can you, can you feel a doorknob?

• 2:33:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, you, yeah, I could, I could feel myself walking through, yeah, you couldn't, yeah.

• 2:33:45Speaker 03

  I think it's a mechanism inside the brain. Just something clicks. It's like people that levitate. Some, something in there's working.

• 2:33:57Speaker 03

  It clicks. There's something, it's a mechanism inside the brain. And that's what we, it's, it's just a mech- It's just something in the brain just clicks.

• 2:34:06Shawn Ryan?

  Is it like our brain is holding in our consciousness? And when that, when that something in the brain is unlocked, it releases our consciousness?

• 2:34:17Speaker 03

  It releases, it releases us into a new, uh, to another set of conscious, I get, yeah, I guess.

• 2:34:24Shawn Ryan?

  But it's still you, though. You realize that's you on the floor when you're out of body.

• 2:34:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:29Shawn Ryan?

  And you're still making your own decisions on where you wanna go.

• 2:34:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:37Shawn Ryan?

  Where are some other places you've traveled out of body?

• 2:34:42Speaker 03

  Um, I think I went from, um, I think I went like from Maryland to Pennsylvania to visit my family. Um, one time I think I went to Chicago. I don't know why I went to Chicago. I just went, I don't know, I don't know.

• 2:35:00Speaker 03

  But mostly, it's, mostly, it's just, it's, it's mostly just nature, stars, trees.

• 2:35:11Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting. What am I not asking that I should be asking you?

• 2:35:15Speaker 03

  No, I think, I just think that, um, I think that you're probably very aware and intuitive yourself.

• 2:35:23Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think that?

• 2:35:24Speaker 03

  Because you told me some of the experiences that you had. There's a book called Human Design. Have you read that book?

• 2:35:30Shawn Ryan?

  No ma'am, I'm not.

• 2:35:31Speaker 03

  It puts people into certain category, like you're either like a manifestor, a generator, a creator, and it puts people into four personality types. Um, it's a very interesting book.

• 2:35:46Shawn Ryan?

  What's that book called?

• 2:35:47Speaker 03

  It's called Human Design.

• 2:35:49Shawn Ryan?

  Human Design. I'm gonna look that up and try to get the author on here, if he's still alive.

• 2:35:54Speaker 03

  No, it's a good book. A lot of people, in fact, I, um, I just, just, it's, it's the different personalities. It just puts, it puts people in four different personalities. You could be a manifestor, because I, I'm a generator, so it'd be harder, it'd be hard for me to be a manifestor.

• 2:36:15Shawn Ryan?

  What is a generator?

• 2:36:17Speaker 03

  Uh, you, you would have to let things come to you. You react to things that, a manifestor will go out and get things. The generator, information has to come to you, and then you, you react to the information. And that's how you get, that's how generators get something. They react to information.

• 2:36:38Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:36:39Speaker 03

  Okay, that's, that's how they, yeah, different.

• 2:36:43Shawn Ryan?

  Do you put any significance on certain numbers? So, I'll give you an example. I had a, a spiritual experience in Sedona, and which I believe God was speaking to me. And shortly thereafter, I started seeing the number 444 everywhere I went. I still see it all the time.

• 2:37:09Speaker 03

  Okay, you look up the meaning of 444.

• 2:37:12Shawn Ryan?

  It means your guardian angels are with you, and want you to know that they're with you.

• 2:37:17Speaker 03

  Okay, then you're highly protected. 444 also eats up, ends up for 12. So that 12 could be in a 3, and that's also a spirit, it's also protection.

• 2:37:30Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:37:30Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, 3's also, yeah, 3 is like, big, yeah, protection.

• 2:37:37Speaker 03

  But when people start seeing numbers and when people start finding coins. It's, um, when I went to see John Edward in Baltimore. You know, he said, number, when people start seeing, pay attention to numbers. It's, you, those are, you're getting messages. And all of, and then all of a sudden, somebody may pass and you start finding coins. That person is with you.

• 2:38:06Shawn Ryan?

  Coins, what do you, what do, what do you mean?

• 2:38:08Speaker 03

  Sometimes when people die, people like their loved ones will start just finding coins everywhere. Like pennies and just, did you ever find coins?

• 2:38:21Shawn Ryan?

  No, not that I'm aware of.

• 2:38:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had a girlfriend who, um, she, every time somebody died in her family, she would find coins. And her mother died and she found coins, so she knew that her mother was with her. I had a friend whose, um, mother died and the, the mother told her, she would give her a sign that she's okay. So it was winter time and, um, this bird kept showing up on my girlfriend's balcony. And my girlfriend would say, why is that, I wonder why that bird's here, it's so cold. Cause you know, birds, birds fly south for the winter. And she said, that bird showed up every day and my girlfriend was like, why is that stupid bird here?

• 2:39:07Speaker 03

  And here she finally, it was like her mother. And then she says, oh, okay, you're okay. And then she never saw the bird again.

• 2:39:13Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Do you believe in mediumship?

• 2:39:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, of cour-, yeah.

• 2:39:20Shawn Ryan?

  Can you do mediumship?

• 2:39:21Speaker 03

  Sometimes, mhm.

• 2:39:26Shawn Ryan?

  So where are those

• 2:39:30Shawn Ryan?

  souls?

• 2:39:33Speaker 03

  I guess, I guess, I guess we call it heaven, right? It's like they're on the other side of the veil. I guess that's what we call our heaven.

• 2:39:43Shawn Ryan?

  So they haven't been reincarnated yet?

• 2:39:47Shawn Ryan?

  Can you ask, do you believe you can access once somebody's already been reincarnated?

• 2:39:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, but probably, but mostly, but yeah, but you just don't come back that easy. I mean, there's a whole process to it.

• 2:40:01Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean by that?

• 2:40:02Speaker 03

  You go over and you just don't come back. You gotta go over there and you've got to, you have to take, I don't know, you're with other people, you have to take stock of what you do, you have to decide, do you wanna come back? And what, it's just, you just don't go and then come back and let's get reincarnated. There's a process to it, I think.

• 2:40:23Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. But, I mean, could you get a little more descriptive on the process?

• 2:40:28Speaker 03

  Well, I think when you go over, they say that, um, you know, your loved ones are there and that when you pass over, that your loved ones will meet you. And then they, and then they sort of take you into these, into where I guess the, where the God source is, and it's really nice. And that more or less you can do what you want. If you wanna study, they have like the, if you wanna study, you can study. If you wanna fish, you can fish. You can do whatever you want. However, you do take stock, you know, what did you learn in this life? How can you be better? And if you come back, you're with the same people and the role, you just get better.

• 2:41:15Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think it's a completely different experience? When you come back? Or are you reliving kind of the same?

• 2:41:22Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, it's the same energy. But yeah, you will have, you will still have some of the same energy from your previous lives. That's what you have to work out.

• 2:41:32Shawn Ryan?

  Do you believe there are new souls and old souls? How are new souls?

• 2:41:36Speaker 03

  They're young and immature.

• 2:41:38Shawn Ryan?

  How, how do they come about?

• 2:41:42Speaker 03

  Um, what do you mean, how do they come about?

• 2:41:45Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, if there's old souls and new souls, what, what creates a new soul?

• 2:41:54Speaker 03

  Probably someone that hasn't had many earth experiences.

• 2:42:04Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think you can tell the difference between an old soul and a new soul?

• 2:42:10Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. You can tell by a person's face.

• 2:42:14Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think I am?

• 2:42:16Speaker 03

  Probably an old soul, because you're searching, you're searching.

• 2:42:22Speaker 03

  You're searching.

• 2:42:26Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about astrology.

• 2:42:28Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:42:31Speaker 03

  But when's your birthday?

• 2:42:34Shawn Ryan?

  October 4th, 1982.

• 2:42:38Speaker 03

  Okay, so you're a Libra?

• 2:42:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:42:42Speaker 03

  Okay, so what do you want to know about astrology?

• 2:42:45Shawn Ryan?

  How does it work?

• 2:42:47Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't know. I don't know that much about astrology, although I do know astrologers. You know, they, and it's more than your birth sign, but there's a lot that, um, they look at, okay, the time you were born and where you were born, and they look at other things. They look, I guess they look at the 12 planets and where they were at the time of your birth. And then from that, they get a fuller picture of who you are. Then once they, that's your personality, and then they can take that and do projections into the future as to what could happen to you. So you may be a Libra, but your rising sign would be another,

• 2:43:33Speaker 03

  your rising sign gives you more of your personality, and your moon placement gives you your emotions. So even though you're a Libra, you've got to look at the other things to figure out, to give you the full picture of who you are.

• 2:43:49Shawn Ryan?

  How does that determine things?

• 2:43:53Speaker 03

  I think it's just great to know your personality and know who you are. A lot of times, people will go to astrologers to look at, you know, where were the planets when I was born and what does it all mean? And it gives, I think it can help give people a better sense about themselves, who they are, why they're here, what they would be good at, what they wouldn't be good at. And then you have transits. Like if somebody's looking for a new job, there may be a transit coming up that's saying, "Well, this would be a good time to look for a new job." Or, um, or this would be a good time to buy a new house. And they look at, and then they can take that and project it into the future.

• 2:44:36Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I don't know what questions to ask because I wasn't anticipating going here. But, I mean, what, what is it about

• 2:44:50Shawn Ryan?

  the dates, the moon, all of this stuff that kind of predetermines? It sounds like it predetermines your personality and your strengths.

• 2:45:00Speaker 03

  It can, but I mean, weren't the wise men, weren't they supposed to be astrologers?

• 2:45:05Shawn Ryan?

  They were.

• 2:45:06Speaker 03

  The wi- and I think Jesus was in a scene, he was in a scene. Um, and that those people, they were vegetarians and they were astrologers.

• 2:45:22Speaker 03

  And the other tribes didn't like them because in the Essene tribe, women had a lot of power. And it made the other tribes upset. And that's why they made, they didn't like Mary Magdalene or... It was, it was the tribe that Jesus belonged to, he was in a scene.

• 2:45:41Shawn Ryan?

  When you look at somebody, do you feel that you can tell if they're a good person or not right off the bat?

• 2:45:46Speaker 03

  Oh, sure.

• 2:45:47Shawn Ryan?

  What else?

• 2:45:48Speaker 03

  You can do it too.

• 2:45:51Shawn Ryan?

  I feel like I can, but I also have been wrong several times.

• 2:45:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's some people that are out of the box. Oh, yeah, and there's some people that will surprise you. And like my cousin would say, "Well, we just didn't see that one coming." You know, if you're wrong, all you say is, "Well, I didn't see that one coming." But yeah, most of the time, but yeah, I mean, of course, there's always gonna be somebody that's gonna take you by surprise.

• 2:46:13Shawn Ryan?

  Well, Angela, I know you have a flight to catch and...

• 2:46:17Speaker 03

  But thank you very much.

• 2:46:19Shawn Ryan?

  I just wanna say, "Thank you for coming."

• 2:46:21Speaker 03

  Oh, it's been my pleasure.

• 2:46:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I have really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope we stay in touch.

• 2:46:27Speaker 03

  Oh, we will. I'm gonna get you some books. I'm gonna get you.

• 2:46:32Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:46:33Speaker 03

  Okay, thanks a lot.

• 2:46:35Shawn Ryan?

  My pleasure.