Pod Insights Shawn Ryan Show Ed Calderon's first hand accounts with the Portland and Atlanta Riots About this episode Ed Calderon and Shawn Ryan talk about Ed's first hand account and experience with the Portland and Atlanta riots.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:35 Shawn Ryan? All right, Ed, we'll just do a quick warm-up real quick. But I like to do a warm-up before we dive right into it.
1:41 Speaker 06 Sure.
1:42 Shawn Ryan? So with all the shit that's going on in the country right now, and the protests and the riots, you actually went to the Portland one.
1:53 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:54 Shawn Ryan? And you also were in Atlanta. Are there any other ones you showed up at?
2:00 Speaker 06 I mean, LA. I was in LA during some of those, the initial parts of that protest and some of the looting going on in LA. So I got to see some of that as well.
2:12 Shawn Ryan? Did you get anything good?
2:15 Speaker 06 That's a good one. No, I didn't get anything good. I don't know. So when I was in Atlanta, that was the initial push of those nightly protests and looting and rioting.
2:29 Speaker 06 I was actually there to do a class on urban movement, traveler safety and social engineering. So I got there and the host called me right off after I got out of the plane and told me, "We're probably gonna have to cancel this class because Atlanta is burning." And I told them, "Well, that's a pretty good backdrop and learning experience for people to kind of go through."
2:53 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
2:53 Speaker 06 So, in the words of Bill O'Reilly, "Fuck it, let's do it live." So, we actually used the riots as a backdrop, sent some of the students out there to kind of piece together who's in charge on the protester side.
3:11 Shawn Ryan? You took the class, you took the class out there?
3:13 Speaker 06 Yeah.
3:14 Shawn Ryan? Oh shit, nice.
3:15 Speaker 06 I took the class out there. Obviously, everybody signed away where everybody knew what they were in for. And everybody wanted the learning experience and I didn't want to pass up the learning experience for myself to kind of see some of that stuff directly. Immediate things became apparent to the students and to myself.
3:30 Speaker 06 A lot of conductors, people orchestrating things within the scope of the protest and some of the looting going on on both sides. Even the cops and the police and the government was doing, were doing things to kind of move certain narratives and certain things along. Protester side, you could see people being bussed in or drove, driven into the protest in Atlanta. You can see certain elements, certain things bought at Home Depot that were pretty suspect. So it was surprising to me that on the law enforcement side, none of that was being monitored.
4:09 Speaker 06 So basically, basically breaching kits were sold out in Atlanta. Crowbars, angle grinders, that type of stuff.
4:19 Shawn Ryan? All that shit was gone.
4:21 Speaker 06 All that stuff was kind of being, you know, distributed in some of these places with some of the, some of the looters. On the protester side, there was a lot of communication, a lot of people utilizing things like,
4:35 Speaker 06 During the, a lot of the students were within the crowds, they could see over their shoulders and would see what the messaging devices that people were using. So they were using Snapchat, they were using Signal, they were using um, Seo, which is like a, that turns your phone into like a radio uh thing and they were using headsets uh to kind of orchestrate some of these things.
4:55 Shawn Ryan? So it was actually pretty fucking organized?
4:58 Speaker 06 Some of it was, and on the, on the uh, you know, and not to just talk about the protesters. There was a group of people that rolled in at, at one point during the night uh handing out water bottles and being very pro-police, pro-blue line. And uh, they were driven there inside of a police car and they were driven out of there inside of a police car after they made a, an appearance on the news.
5:25 Shawn Ryan? Hmm.
5:25 Speaker 06 So, you know, everybody, it was the circus with a lot of rings in there, that's interesting.
5:30 Shawn Ryan? How uh, how did your students feel?
5:33 Speaker 06 I mean, uh, when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at will change. Um, um, you know, people are, people are, people are usually told, told to avoid these, these types of incidents and, and, and spaces. You know, my whole thing is that I want to teach people how to look at things differently. Uh, to look things uh from an adversarial type of uh way. So, uh, when I used to do training uh for bodyguards in Mexico, I used to take them through a full ambush class first and then showed them how to counter that, right? I take that kind of that same approach with the students coming into some of the urban survival classes where I'm like, hey, so I'm gonna show you how to get out of a bad situation
6:17 Speaker 06 where maybe civil unrest is a thing. Um, so I have to show you how civil unrest kind of acts and how it coordinates and how the Hong Kong protesters are a quantum leap when it comes to civil unrest.
6:31 Shawn Ryan? No.
6:31 Speaker 06 And how you're seeing some of their methodology kind of now being transferred through the interwebs into the methodologies that are now being expressed by groups like Antifa, groups like Black Lives, uh, some of the Black, some of the elements within Black Lives Matters. And uh, and some of the people around these protests that's, that basically use them to do what they do, which is loot, uh, you know, property damage and it's just an excuse or an outlet for them to do what they do.
6:59 Shawn Ryan? Do you think those protesters that went there went with bad intentions? Or do you think, or do you think that they were manipulated after being there by a certain group and kind of handed what they needed to turn it into what it wound up being?
7:18 Speaker 06 A pretty good example of this, well, I was in Portland and I actually was at the hundred, the hundred, the hundred, day 101 of the protest, when the, when the Molotov cocktail was thrown at one of the, by one of the protesters and landed within the protesters and one of them, their feet, their feet caught on fire. The memes that came out of that, you know, the internet wins, you know, a pretty horrific sight for most people, I've seen worse, but that, that happened. Interesting thing about that is the protesters immediately looked around and said, somebody call the police, basically.
7:56 Shawn Ryan? You gotta be shitting.
7:58 Speaker 06 The, the state police rolled in, put him out and there was a, there was an unspoken truce happened in that moment, right? And they put this guy's shoes, shoes out with this extinguisher. And then they went back to the whole us against them. I've been, I've been through riots, but I've been through two riots, prison riots, some prison, some riots outside of the prison in Tijuana, a bunch of other, you know, civil unrest situations in Mexico, where people do get killed and people do have nefarious intent and people and the cops will shoot back.
8:37 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
8:37 Speaker 06 A repressive, true repressive government. I don't see that in Portland. 5% CS gas being used, which is, you know, makes you sneeze, you know? Snack carts being pulled through the protester line.
8:55 Shawn Ryan? They have fucking snack carts.
8:56 Speaker 06 Yeah. Red Bull, granola, water, Gatorade bottles being offered to the protesters there.
9:02 Shawn Ryan? Lots of Kool-Aid.
9:06 Speaker 06 Mostly young people, most, so I, I, I look at things a different way. So I was going through that protest and one of the first things that I did was smell some of the people there. You would think that a protest that lasted a hundred days would mean that a lot of people have been out there just sleepless, just with the, you know, fighting the good fight. All these people smelled like they took a shower in the morning. All these people smelled of Vax body spray and Old Spice. Alright, they said they smelled like they've been living comfortably, maybe couch surfing in the area. Mostly Caucasian. Mostly, all of them had pretty good dental work done on them. A lot of them had a very expensive frames on their glasses.
9:48 Speaker 06 A few very expensive, not expensive shoes, but upper middle class is what I saw there. Not, and it was all about Black Lives Matter and I did not see a lot of black lives in that environment. The black lives that I saw in that environment, I saw a few African Americans honking their horns because they were getting back from work into their suburban houses in the area. And it was interesting seeing that nonsense, nonsensical kind of a struggle that they were going through. Where the black lives they're fighting for honking their horns, trying to get through the crowd to get back home. And they're there protesting for
10:27 Speaker 06 against the, the police. And the police are using 5% gas and engaging in the, the, like, you want to talk about restraint. I mean, I've never seen such a restrained riot police force in my, in my, in my life. I mean, they did everything they could not to damage anybody at that riot. So speaking to some of the members of law enforcement that were working.
10:59 Shawn Ryan? Did they accomplish that real quick? Just backtrack, like, did they harm anybody?
11:03 Speaker 06 Not at all. I mean, they pushed, some people got knocked to the ground just by, by scattering when some of the police has kind of moved in on, on the protest. But it was, I mean, I I'm a I'm three years into the American dream myself, so I'm I'm I still have the perspective of an outsider. And I can make heads or tails of what I was seeing. It seemed like a play being acted on in front of me, some sort of show. And the show became louder and rowdier when the cameras were there.
11:35 Shawn Ryan? Okay.
11:36 Speaker 06 So, and on the on the police officer's side, like I actually went over and talked to some of them. And desperation on their end, they don't have leadership in Portland as far as their police forces, they don't have the backing or support of the government there. The government says, well, just be there, but don't do anything. Property damage is happening, don't worry about it.
11:58 Shawn Ryan? What's the fucking point of being there then?
12:01 Speaker 06 That's the thing, you know, so I I I feel for them, I feel for the protesters too, I mean, I feel for. I feel for what the fight that they think they're they're fighting for. The the motives that they have to for being there. And they were sold something that might not be what they think it is. And I think most of these things were probably gonna. Flare up or fade away once November passes, that's kind of the feeling I get.
12:28 Shawn Ryan? How many people were out there and was it like, was it shoulder to shoulder?
12:32 Speaker 06 It's probably just a grab, just probably somewhere in the vicinity of two thousand people, maybe. Kind of moving around randomly, a few leaders in the protest screaming out directions.
12:43 Shawn Ryan? What kind of directions?
12:44 Speaker 06 Let's go over to the park, let's form a line here, gather all the dumpsters, put them in the middle of the street. Gather rocks.
12:54 Speaker 06 Back back up, disperse, regroup.
12:57 Shawn Ryan? No shit?
12:58 Speaker 06 Yeah.
12:58 Shawn Ryan? And everybody listens?
13:00 Speaker 06 Everybody listens to the best abilities, usually a few people listen and the rest of them follow the crowd.
13:05 Shawn Ryan? Okay.
13:06 Speaker 06 So it's a lot of herd mentality, not even close to what you see in Hong Kong, though, you know, then. You know, they're Asian, so there's something there about, and there's something about their organization, so. I don't know, it's not even close to what you see in Hong Kong as far as the organization goes and some of the sophistication shown by the protesters. Uh, but it's pretty interesting, you know, it's interesting and. Interesting how they're basically being bussed in and relieved and something is maintaining that, you know, but it has to be something maintaining that financially.
13:36 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
13:38 Shawn Ryan? Did you feel like you're in danger at all being in there?
13:41 Speaker 06 No.
13:42 Shawn Ryan? No?
13:43 Speaker 06 Completely. I had a few people tell me, Ed, what are you doing there in that protest?
13:50 Speaker 06 I'm not telling people to be reckless with their safety in lives. I know people that I usually tell people to avoid that.
13:57 Speaker 06 I'm a non-premised of environment specialist. I train people in how to be safe specifically in places where they're not supposed to be, or places that turn into places not supposed to be. So who would I be doing those types of classes if I don't go to those places and learn from them, right? So to me, it was a learning experience. But in my experience, being in a place, very dangerous places, that was not even close to, you know, to the scale of danger that I've been in my life. That was, that was pretty tame. I didn't feel threatened by the law enforcement. I saw some of the canisters go off and get a whiff of some of that CS gas prepared for CS gas.
14:41 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
14:41 Speaker 06 And I sneezed a bit and rubbed my eyes a little bit and then learned it was 5% CS gas. Right? So, no, I did not feel in danger. I felt for the people that live there.
14:55 Speaker 06 That's a sympathy I got, you know, some of these people, some of the property damage that I saw. Some of the people coming, coming back from work, some of the people going to work, getting their lives interrupted by all these kids playing rage against the machine in the middle of the street and just knocking over, knocking over, knocking over trash cans and stuff like that for a cause that they feel very, very deeply about and how that gets manipulated by some, some people out there maybe. And on the other side, desperate police officers going on inhumane shifts. And having no support of the people that were elected to. To lead them.
15:39 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
15:40 Speaker 06 So it was, I mean, to me, it was a sad state of affairs. Something that is very familiar to me as far as somebody that comes from the third world, from a country like Mexico that has a lot of that type of strife.
15:53 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
15:54 Speaker 06 You can see elements of that in there. So it was surprising to me that I saw that in Portland. A few, a few blocks away from a, from a bunch of restaurants where all these protesters were having lunch before they got there. A vegan restaurant, noodle restaurant. There's a bunch of hipster places and all of a sudden, ah, that was a great vegan pizza. Now let's go protest how bad we have it.
16:21 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
16:22 Speaker 06 That was like, I just, I, my brain doesn't, isn't able to comprehend exactly what's going on there.
16:28 Shawn Ryan? They'd get worse at night.
16:30 Speaker 06 Uh, you know, it, it, it, it kept, uh, it kept ramping up and then lowering down, ramping up, lowering down. A lot of it was actually provoked by media being there filming. That's what, that's what made a lot of the people just kind of get rowdy again.
16:45 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
16:47 Speaker 06 But you can, you can see some of the desperation on the cop's side. I mean, they, they don't, they don't want to be there every night, you know?
16:55 Shawn Ryan? With their hands tied behind their, behind their back. Was there a, when you said there was kind of a, like, um, like a, a momentary truce when that guy's leg caught on fire, but, uh, what, were the cops, were the police officers intermingled with them or was there like a clear line?
17:16 Speaker 06 That's a clear line. Uh, uniformed, all black, uh, riot police with some of the subdued patches on there. They saw the Molotov cocktail being thrown and this guy catching on fire, basically running through the crowd and, and the protesters with all their infinite wisdom telling him to roll. And he kept rolling, but his, his feet were on fire. So that rolling thing doesn't work when your feet are on fire, apparently.
17:41 Shawn Ryan? It's fucking gas, buddy.
17:45 Speaker 06 And they, you could see their helplessness coming, coming in from the bottom up until their voice said, somebody call the police.
17:54 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
17:55 Speaker 06 Which was.
17:57 Speaker 06 Insane for that environment. And they did come and they did put them out with extinguishers. And then they get, and then they had to go back to their line and start getting pelted again. Even if after they did.
18:10 Shawn Ryan? Their deed.
18:11 Speaker 06 Their deed, you know, again. I saw some of the faces in that police line again, Black Lives Matter. There's a lot of black faces on the police, on the police line as well, so. I don't know. I don't know what to think about all that.
18:25 Shawn Ryan? What do you think would stop it?
18:29 Speaker 06 I don't know. That's a, that's a big question and I think it's beyond my understanding. I would advise that a lot of the people that, that talk about police repression or a repressive government would take the time to travel a bit abroad. I think some of us that have had the opportunity to travel or that they're not, or that are not from this country have experienced what that actually feels like.
19:02 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
19:03 Speaker 06 What, what being tossed into the back of a car without your rights being read and actually being tortured in a cell somewhere because you belong to a different political party than they do. What that is actually is. What being a reporter somewhere and being killed because of something you reported is. What, you know, what having a group of armed men coming to your house and taking your prettiest daughter to a party and never seeing her again. What that's like. The, the, the US is, is not that. No matter how much they try and push that narrative. Like I'm not from here.
19:48 Speaker 06 I travel every weekend. I'm in a different state every weekend and I. A few cases that I've seen, a few cases that I've experienced, but mostly the, the, there's no, that they not experienced what true hopelessness is when it comes to the government.
20:08 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
20:08 Speaker 06 What true repression is when it comes to the government. And, uh, most places in the country, you bathe in drinkable potable water in the morning.
20:18 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
20:18 Speaker 06 You know, I think you, people should start there, right?
20:21 Shawn Ryan? Yeah. So, I mean, this is, the police can't really do much, you know, their fucking hands are tied behind their back and, uh.
20:29 Speaker 06 And, and, and what about the, what about the future? Like, how many people are gonna sign up to be in the police in Portland in the next few years? What about the people that retire?
20:40 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
20:41 Speaker 06 Uh, what I've heard is the salaries aren't, uh, too attractive. The work they're doing right now is inhumane, uh, for what they're doing. They don't get any support. So eventually, you know, people are fighting, uh, they're trying to cancel the police.
20:56 Shawn Ryan? Yeah. I mean, it's unfortunate, but you know, sometimes, sometimes I feel like the best thing you can do is just let people live in, uh, exactly what the fuck they created, as harsh as that sounds, but.
21:12 Speaker 06 Hard times produce hard men.
21:15 Shawn Ryan? Yep.
21:15 Speaker 06 Hard men will produce good times and good times will produce soft men. And the snake will bite its tail. I think we're at that point right now in history where the snake is biting its tail.
21:27 Shawn Ryan? I think we're there too.
21:28 Speaker 06 Um, and it's, to me, it's, uh, I'm, I, I, people ask me about, you know, what I think about these things and, you know, what's happening in the US. Uh, the world has ended for me several times over in Mexico. From my job, uh, ending to, to seeing a whole generation of young, uh, kids that I grew up with being consumed by a drug war. I mean, consumed by it, their bodies are, no bodies to bury. So my world has ended a few times over.
22:02 Shawn Ryan? Yeah.
22:02 Speaker 06 Uh, coming up here and seeing some of the strife that countries going through is, I still have hope. I still have a, I still have a vision or an idea of what the US is. I remember said, I remember getting gifted a copy of the Constitution when I started going through my immigration process by a, a, a, a dear friend of mine, uh, Dan, uh, NSW reservist. And he gave me a copy of the Constitution, told me to read it. And I read it and it's a pretty amazing document. It's probably the closest thing to a divinely inspired document that I've seen. Um, and you can see its effects on the country you have now. But again, you, you, you start getting into what it's churning into this, the clear line
22:48 Speaker 06 of separation between this side and that. And, uh, some, somebody like me getting caught in the middle, just, you know, I'm new here. Uh, what's, how can I help? How, oh, you're, you're, you're supposed to be on that side or you're supposed to be on this side. And that's just disheartening, you know?
23:06 Shawn Ryan? Well, that's, that's, uh, pretty interesting to hear from a, uh, from another standpoint, from an immigrant. So, uh, thanks for sharing that. And, uh, let's get on with the, uh, let's get on with the show.
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