#86 Laird Hamilton - The Greatest Big Wave Surfer of All Time | Part 1

Laird Hamilton is a legendary American big wave surfer, known for riding some of the most dangerous waves ever to break. Laird is also a fitness icon and creator of Laird Superfood. Part one of this two part series is a chronicling of Hamilton's childhood in Hawaii where he met his first love–the ocean. Hamilton recounts what it was like being the odd man out in a culture he would grow to be apart of. This episode also covers his early surfing career and the beginnings of his insatiable drive to conquer the world's biggest waves. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://shopify.com/shawn https://puretalk.com/ryan Laird Hamilton Links: Website - https://lairdsuperfood.com Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/F859FC96-07C4-4ED8-952A-9CA41B8B784F Instagram - https://instagram.com/lairdsuperfood?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg%3D%3D&utm_source=qr Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@lairdsuperfood?_t=8hPulnwWiXy&_r=1 Youtube - https://youtube.com/@LairdSuperfood?si=rjEDqFoHVJU01BQH Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lairdsuperfood Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Shawn Ryan?

  Something that truly inspires me are folks that are trendsetters. People who were born with a raw talent, or a gift, or a certain skill set that maybe falls outside of society's normal parameters. And instead of conforming and changing their gift and trying to get better at something else to please somebody that they don't even care about, they go off and they do their own thing. They exercise the skill set, gift, raw talent that they've been given, and they get so good at it that they force the attention of the public, the critics, the world.

• 1:45Shawn Ryan?

  And my next guest did just that. He is possibly the most prolific surfer in the entire world. And in the beginning, the surfing community wouldn't give him the time of day. They wouldn't sponsor him because he refused to conform to the judges' point system or anything else that the community was trying to make him do. Instead, he pursued his dreams and he became so good at what he does that he forced the attention of the entire world to look at his talent.

• 2:21Shawn Ryan?

  Ladies and gentlemen, that exact mindset is partly how I built this podcast is by setting trends and not looking at competition and not worrying what everybody else thinks. And so for me, this next episode is truly inspirational. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my friend, my business partner, and the most prolific surfer in the entire world, Laird Hamilton, to the Sean Ryan Show. If you get anything out of this, please head over to Apple Podcasts and Spotify, leave us a review.

• 3:05Shawn Ryan?

  Patreon, thank you for all the love. It's because of you guys that this show even exists. And everybody else, thank you for all the support. We love all of you. Cheers from the Sean Ryan Show team and much love to you all. Enjoy the show.

• 3:30Shawn Ryan?

  Laird Hamilton, welcome to the show, man.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  Sean, thank you.

• 3:35Shawn Ryan?

  This has been a long time.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  You drug me inland.

• 3:38Shawn Ryan?

  That's right. You don't come inland much, do you?

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Only for you and a few other, and a few other brief moments. But yeah, inland, I'm far from the ocean. I'm like, I wonder how long it will take me to get to water.

• 3:51Shawn Ryan?

  We got a lot of creeks there.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  They were temporarily.

• 3:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. Have you ever been to Tennessee?

• 3:57Speaker 03

  I have not.

• 3:58Shawn Ryan?

  Well, welcome. It's a good time of year to be here in fall.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, color in the trees.

• 4:04Shawn Ryan?

  Yep, yep. But, uh, so let me give you a quick introduction here, even though you don't really need one, but American big wave surfer, founder of Laird Superfood, pioneer in action, water, sports, fitness, health, and nutrition, innovator of stand-up paddle boarding and hydrofoil boarding, successfully surfed Jaws. The wave size, for those that don't know of Jaws, from what I understand, is 30 to 80 feet.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  That works.

• 4:35Shawn Ryan?

  That's insane. Am I, am I accurate on that?

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 4:40Shawn Ryan?

  Where is that wave?

• 4:41Speaker 03

  It's on Maui.

• 4:42Shawn Ryan?

  Is it?

• 4:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's off of, it's off of, ironically, it's at the base of the largest dormant volcano in the world.

• 4:50Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 4:50Speaker 03

  I don't know if there's a relationship, but yeah, there it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a special wave on the tip of Maui that, that when we were young was, was unsurfed. We, we were the, I mean, people paddled out to it just to see it, but we were the first ones to, to actually ride it and make it a wave to be ridden and kind of, we actually brought it. I, I, I say we brought it, it's destruction, but we brought the popularity to the spot, which now has made it busy.

• 5:23Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man. That's, uh, that's, you're, you're quite the adrenaline junkie. I think we have a lot of common here. But, um, I can't wait to dive into that. Uh, stunt double for James Bond in the opening film, Die Another Day. Filmed at Jaws, regarded by surf historians as the all time best of the best at big wave surfing. That's quite the compliment. And, uh, probably the most important husband, 26 years. You're a father of three daughters. You're an author, producer, fitness and nutrition expert, and as I'd mentioned before, adrenaline junkie.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  I don't know. That's kind of a, the problem with that term is a little bit of a write off, but yes, I'll take it. I'll take, I'll take part of it, you know?

• 6:12Shawn Ryan?

  When did your addiction to adrenaline start?

• 6:16Speaker 03

  I mean, I kid, like little kid. My dad said that I would, when I was young, like six, seven, I would go to like a, I'd go to a cliff where adults were kind of apprehensive and just jump off stuff. So I think I, I mean, I think I was naturally, I mean, it, the truth is, is a piece of it had to start. Cause there was stories of my, my mom, my real father, uh, left my mom while my mom was pregnant. And my mom went to San Francisco to have, have me, but she had boyfriends.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Boyfriend boyfriends when I was young and I think they were like pushing her around or something and I would attack them like when I was like very young like they said like a three-year-old just come and attack the leg you know like I was like so I think

• 7:12Speaker 03

  I don't know if that a part of it part of my development in being that way could have started from that like that I needed to be courageous uh forced into courage was I maybe I was I think you know my my I have a stepdad who was a a great champion surfer and you know he always said that big wave riders were born and not made that you were born with that mechanism that you had it in you and then it was just a matter of if you were exposed to the situation to to develop it so but I had a I had a a certain predisposition to doing things courageously fearlessly like I was I would always just jump off high stuff

• 7:57Speaker 03

  and and wanted to go fast in vehicles and just you know just always was always wanted to be on that that you know edge of of destruction I think I would call it you know

• 8:12Shawn Ryan?

  that's that's interesting I wasn't expecting I wasn't expecting that we're gonna dive into we are gonna dive into that and peel those layers back and and about your childhood and I think that's gonna help a lot of people but before we get too deep everybody on the show always gets a gift okay you got any guesses

• 8:34Speaker 03

  uh I'm hoping it's something that I really like

• 8:37Shawn Ryan?

  all right well maybe you've heard of this company I don't know but uh it's called

• 8:44Speaker 03

  I recognize the name

• 8:47Shawn Ryan?

  so yeah open that up

• 8:49Speaker 03

  thank you

• 8:50Shawn Ryan?

  yeah

• 8:51Speaker 03

  I'm excited to see what we got

• 8:52Shawn Ryan?

  I love these products I just I'm hoping that That you like them too.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Okay, so I like it. I like the cup. I love the greens. But here we go, performance mushroom.

• 9:06Shawn Ryan?

  That's my favorite.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  My favorite.

• 9:08Shawn Ryan?

  Is that your favorite too?

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Well, it's, yeah, because of the, you know, there's some things that taste better and there's some things that, but, but it's gonna be hard to beat the value of what this has. And I don't know, like, first of all, you know, Chaga is the king of all the mushrooms, like that's the apex. And the benefits that that mushroom itself has on the body is, the list is too long, like it's a, and they say they found spores of, of, of Chaga, spores in the stratosphere.

• 9:37Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 9:37Speaker 03

  I don't know what they'd be doing in the stratosphere, but it only, most of it's found grown in the, like, within the Arctic Circle and stuff. And it's the only mushroom that actually grows symbiotically with the tree. It's not feeding off of it. So normally, you know, mushrooms and stuff are feeding off of it, so. And of course, oh, you, is this a sign, sleep and recover?

• 9:58Shawn Ryan?

  This is, yeah, that's, I just started taking that and I love that stuff.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:03Shawn Ryan?

  That stuff is amazing.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:05Shawn Ryan?

  And, um, yeah, you know, you know what I really like about the products is that it's, they're the cleanest products you can get. And I like that everything is sourced, not everything, but everything as much as possible seems to be sourced here in the US. And the only time ingredients are sourced outside of the US is if they are higher quality ingredients and, um, you guys are just doing it right and, uh.

• 10:35Speaker 03

  Well, if we had more coconut trees in America, I would be, that would be, I would definitely, I mean, we're trying to grow coconuts in Hawaii, but the volume that you need, I mean, the truth is, is that I know the, I mean, first of all, you and I are, we're working together, which I'm very honored to, you know, I feel like. I have a theory that I told Gabby one time, it's called the honey line, which is when you find a bee, you follow another bee and then eventually you get to where all the bees are and you get to where the honey is. And so, and if you follow a wasp, you get to the wasp nest. So, but the honey line just talks about how that you can get pulled together. And so, there's a reason why you and I have been pulled together. I'm not,

• 11:17Speaker 03

  I'm not completely aware of all of the means of the things that happen. Uh, there's a reason why you are, you have been chosen to do what you're doing, given what you've done and what you're doing now. Uh, and, and I feel like that's, I feel a similar, uh, a similar experience of that in my life. Like there's certain things that you just kinda, you're, you're led to. And you, you like to say it's because you're so smart. You know, everybody, oh yeah, it's because I'm so smart and talented. No, it's not, you're not that smart. So, don't give yourself that much credit.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. Cause then pride comes and you know, what do they say? Great pride preceded the great fall. So, hold back a little bit, but, but this stuff is, I mean, we work hard, we fight to keep the quality of the ingredients and to make it simple. It just to make it not be so complicated. I think you can, you can, in a way, nature has provides us. We just need to understand better what's in nature for us. We've lost a lot of that skill. Yes, we have. We've lost that skill, but it, you intuitively sense when you eat good things that are good for you, your body, before you know it, you're like, oh, you know what? I need that stuff. Like I, like I, and it's not, on the negative side is, hey, I eat a bunch of sugar. I need more sugar.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  I eat a bunch of garbage. I need more garbage. So you have both. Yeah. But the, but you have a mechanism that tells you when it's good. And so, we're just trying to do that. That's what, I mean, I, the truth is, is that I make this stuff for me. Yeah. Like that's what I'm doing. I make, I, I, you know, I just, I need to make a company so they can ship it to me.

• 12:53Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I love this stuff and, and um.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  Well, thank you. I appreciate this.

• 12:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yep, you're welcome.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  It'll come in handy.

• 12:59Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, but uh, before we move on, I just, I wanted to thank you for allowing me to be a part of it. Um, I'm honored uh, to be part of your venture and, and, and the products are amazing and it's, I mean, I'm always looking for the best quality and uh, and you're it. So thank you.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  You, and you also have a, I think a responsibility, but you also have an opportunity to really help. You know, you help people. I mean, you have a, you have people that are listening and watching and learning and, and so, and I, and I feel the same way. If you're in a position that you can have influence of any kind, you, you're, you have a responsibility and I mean, you, you see that people don't always take that responsibility correctly. Like they have, or you have an influence, you have a responsibility, and then what do you do with it? And so I think that that for me, I, I feel like sometimes it's no choice. It's like you, you have no choice to conduct yourself a certain way, to do a certain thing that, I mean,

• 14:03Speaker 03

  and if, if, if parenting doesn't teach you that, I mean, you can avoid it until you get to become a parent and then all of a sudden it's like, it's a little, it's unavoidable because it's in your house, in your bed, it's in, it's every day. So yeah, if it's outside, sometimes you can kind of pretend to ignore it, but when it moves into the house, that's a reminder.

• 14:25Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I gotta tell you, that's just, that, that is so refreshing to hear you say that because there's so many people that don't, and I, that don't take, that don't take the responsibility of the influence that they have seriously, you know, and, and I take that extremely seriously with, with, with any products that I am endorsing.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:48Shawn Ryan?

  And I also take it very seriously with the interviews. I mean, I've had interviews that I, that I will not release.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:55Shawn Ryan?

  Because I don't know if everything in there is factual. And, and, and there have been other interviews that I've done where. I'm not sure if it's factual, but it's not going to affect somebody's decision making process, you know, and so they can take that information, they can believe it, they can not believe it, but at the end of the day, it's not going to affect anybody's decision making. But when you get into medical stuff and endorsements and just information, you know, whether you're digging into corruption, or it's medical advice, or whatever, that's on here, it all has to check out, because if it's going to influence somebody's decision,

• 15:36Shawn Ryan?

  and I'm influencing them to make the wrong decision for a paycheck, then I couldn't live with myself. And so it's, it's, man, it's just great to hear that, you know, because you don't hear that very often, you know.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Well, I appreciate that. I mean, because of the nature of my work, you know, my career has been something where I've had to survive, you know, with sponsors and getting people to support you, and sometimes to get people to support you, and as something as obscure as, you know, riding giant waves, or some innovation, you know, I think this, I think the key is this sincerity. I think that, that at the end, that people can smell it, they can sense it, and sometimes it's almost, it's an invisible thing, but they're like, oh, I don't know what it is, but I, you know, I lean to this. It's like, and so I think that that's a, and I think you're, I think, you know, your sincerity and your, I mean,

• 16:35Speaker 03

  that's what's, you know, what creating the, you know, creating the movement that you have is that, that genuine. And again, back to that obligation, back to that responsibility. It's like, you see it all the time, especially in sports, or in entertainment, you see people have, be of influence, and then they're just, you know, they're just looking for the dough. They're looking for the money at the cost of, you know, and that stuff comes and goes. You're gonna, but the, but the effects don't.

• 17:04Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, and your integrity.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 17:06Shawn Ryan?

  Your integrity.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's hard to get that back.

• 17:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, a lot of people don't. But before we start, I wanted to bring up.

• 17:16Shawn Ryan?

  The Maui wildfires. I mean, you grew up in Hawaii.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:20Shawn Ryan?

  You spend a lot of time there still. It's been a tremendous part of your life, obviously, within the surfing community, your childhood, everything. Did those fires affect you?

• 17:31Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I knew people that were in them that died and I have friends that have been dealing with the aftermath of dealing with the devastation. I mean, I've been in big fires. I was in a Malibu fire that was the largest fire that hit, but we didn't have the death. I wasn't in the Lahaina fire, but the death that happened in that fire and for people, the exposure to the death and then all the friends and family and the destructiveness of that, of that. I mean, you know, when you're looking for people's

• 18:11Speaker 03

  bodies that just vanished, like they vaporized, and then there's that, you know, the questions aren't answered. You don't have, I mean, I think that the level of pain, the hurt that that fire created, I mean, okay, houses, buildings, cool, you can rebuild, you know, make new things, but people and kids and, you know, just that stuff, that's a different, those are different animals. That's a different kind of thing that you personally, unless you've experienced it, can't even begin to understand. And so I have a lot of friends over there that have been dealing with the aftermath of that and then just trying to,

• 18:55Speaker 03

  you know, the upheaval of the community and, you know, I think when people lose their dwellings and lose their homes and lose that, their foundations, especially if they've never moved and never, you know, it's the only house they've ever had and then it's gone and then all of a sudden your family's gone. And, I mean, you know, I don't know if there, I don't think there are words for that stuff.

• 19:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, the amount of displaced families and the loss and just the tragedy and, I mean, it's gonna, it's people's...

• 19:26Shawn Ryan?

  Their life course is completely changed, you know, no matter what trajectory they were on, now it's a completely different trajectory and um, you know, it would be, and I feel like, you know, they didn't, I wish the government would have stepped in and sent some more aid, you know, I mean, we send aid all over the world except, except to ourselves and um, anyways, without getting into that.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Hard to believe, actually, hard to believe.

• 19:53Shawn Ryan?

  It is, isn't it?

• 19:54Speaker 03

  When I heard, I mean, we heard things like $700, like they're gonna give somebody, I mean, that's, it's, it's almost worse than giving nothing.

• 20:04Shawn Ryan?

  It's disgrace.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  Like, it's like $700, like seven, I mean, have you ever been to Hawaii? It's the most expensive place in the world to live. You can't even get a, you can barely get a hotel room for a night for $700. So, I mean, that's, that's, you know, that's the, it'll be interesting to see what kinda, I mean, and this is a, a long-term thing, right? It's like the, the aftermath of the, of the, of the, the mental going through the, that, fire, the, like, what, how that comes out in the year to two, to three, to four, and then the rebuild, now already, you know, people have kind of, they've lost some of the momentum of the support because it's, now it's out of sight and we have so many things going on in the world that are distracting us, that we're not even thinking about it.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  And meanwhile, I mean, it could be five years before somebody even gets to see a house that they had that burned to the ground, that every single possession that they have, that they still probably owe a mortgage to, that they still, you know, like, hey, you owe this mortgage and you, but you don't even have a house, like, you don't even, you know, it's like, you don't have a car, you don't have, I mean, it's, you don't have an income, you don't have a job, you don't have, so it's pretty, I mean, I, I, you know, I'm, the only fortune that you, that you have is that the community in Hawaii is so strong, when it comes down to it, and I've experienced some, some other hurricanes and floods and stuff, and the way the community pulls together and the way that they take care of each other there, it's, it's, it's awe-inspiring.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  Like if you, when you see that, it gives you hope for the human being that you see the, in their, in the essence of what's made us great as a, you know, the greatness of humans. I mean, you definitely can see the, the, the lack of greatness when you look around, but, but they, but when you see the way the community pulled together and what they did and the way they responded, by the time the, the so-called disaster relief group gets in and unloads their planes, everybody's already clothed and fed and housed and, I mean, pretty much, it's like, you know.

• 22:11Shawn Ryan?

  What a great example, you know, in the face of tragedy for the rest of the world to see.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  You know, every time I get a little discouraged, especially with all that's been going on and going on, I manage to just, I keep running into a smiling face, somebody at a, at a, somewhere and it continues to, because you can be, I mean, if you spend any time on that device and you're not going the right direction, you can be pretty discouraged, given everything that's happened and is happening and could happen, all that stuff that your brain runs. And so I am encouraged that there are, there's, there's good people and there's a lot more of us than people realize, a lot more. You have a lot more brothers and sisters

• 22:55Speaker 03

  than you realize. They're there and they're, they're maybe just a little more quiet, but it's, you know, it, it, it's, it's something that, that quietness, but also speaks to that, that endurance, you know, the, the guy that runs far doesn't run real fast, but he's just steady. So it's that, that steady, that steady that I, I, I have hopes, you know, for is that, just that reliability and that steadiness.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 5:55 in 55 seconds. Hit it. When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 23:57Speaker 04

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• 24:28Speaker 04

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• 24:57Shawn Ryan?

  There's a lot more good people in the world than it seems, than the media makes it seem, than social media makes it seem. It seems like everybody's divided, but really, I think we're all a lot closer together than what's being projected through media.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, they gotta keep us, gotta keep us, you know, at each other's throat so we keep us distracted, because if we're all together, it might be a little too big a force.

• 25:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  It is too big a force.

• 25:23Shawn Ryan?

  Unfortunately for them, it seems like people are starting to come together.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:27Shawn Ryan?

  And slowly, but surely.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:30Shawn Ryan?

  But anyways, let's move into you. So I want to cover, I want to cover your childhood, get into your surfing career, and then get into some biohacking stuff, because I am just fascinated with that, and I know you are, you're an expert on it. But, but the reason I want to dig into your childhood, and we already, I mean, they just got a small glimpse, but, you know, there's a lot of kids, you know, throughout the world who are struggling, and I know you didn't have the... You had a tough upbringing, you know, and, and, and, and to see where you've come, you know, in life and from where you've come is, I mean, it's inspiring and a lot of people

• 26:12Shawn Ryan?

  can relate to that and I, and I don't think, I know it's going to bring a lot of hope to kids out there who, who, who aren't in the greatest situation and, and that's why I like to cover this. So let's go right into it, you know. Where were you born?

• 26:31Speaker 03

  Well, I was born, I was born in San Francisco. My mother was from Southern California and like fell in love with her high school sweetheart. They were the Z's in the class. I think it was still, you have homeroom and they were, you know, A, B, C. And she was in, her last name was Zyrick and his last name was Zurfus. So they were like two Z's and, but she, my mom was, got pregnant very, at 20, 19 or 20 years old. And it was obviously the early

• 27:09Speaker 03

  60s and my, my blood father wanted to be a merchant marine and so he just kind of split from her and that forced her to kind of have to figure out how to deal with, you know, having, you know, having me and being on her own. And she went to San Francisco and, and I think there was an opportunity to, to do, there was some study they were doing at the University of San Francisco around pregnancy and they had some weird like vacuum they put on the stomach for the last trimester of the, of the pregnancy. And then in return she would get free, you know, free, be able to get, kind of have me

• 27:53Speaker 03

  for free at the hospital. And I think she was working until the very last, up there, she would work on the fairgrounds and whatever she could do to survive. And then, and then had. I was born in San Francisco. Um, she had some friends uh that, and I don't know if it was a boyfriend or a friend of hers that that, you know, the sixties were happening and I think it was Vietnam and there was, there was a lot of stuff going on. And it was a little bit of like the hippies and the, you know, rebel against this, you know, like the, the structure of, you know, eight to five and do the thing and just like the whole kind of, so Hawaii was a, you know, for

• 28:37Speaker 03

  Southern Californians or people that were surfing, cause there was a surf culture that started that was kind of out of rebellion. So Hawaii represented like this paradise, like coconut trees and rainbows and like this place to escape the rat race. You know, cause they considered what was going on, the rat race. And so uh she took me as a, as a baby. I was like a couple of months old uh and then took me to, to Hawaii and I got exposed to, I, you know, I was, we moved to, I think we moved to Lahaina, actually the place that burned down. And so I lived in Lahaina, which was a defunct whale, uh whaling town.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  Or not, I should say, they said capital, but it, it was a whaling, it was the whaling hub of Hawaii at the, for a long time. And then, and then um, and then eventually it kind of disappeared. There was only a couple of little stores there. And so I kinda, you know, a year, two years old, I got exposed to, my mom's boyfriend used to push me um onto little waves. I think when I was two or three years old, I had, I fell on urchins and had both butt cheeks so impaled, I couldn't sit down for a long time. Um, but they would just push me on waves and my mom said I could probably swim before I could walk. I crawled, I used to crawl to the pool and just go in the pool and swim. So I swam like at a crazy young, um, young age and my mom's friends were surf,

• 30:03Speaker 03

  surfer, like surf filmmakers and surfers, cause she was around uh Gidget. And there was like the famous surfing, Hollywood surfing movies. And so she knew the actual Gidget and some of these other girls that were surfers, Linda Benson and some famous girl surfers were her friends. She surfed when she was in high school, but, but when she got pregnant and had started to work and she didn't, she had to take care of, obviously of me. Uh, and then, so I got brought to Hawaii as an infant. And and I wasn't born in Hawaii, which kind of worked against me, even though I'd been there since I was in my diapers. It didn't matter like I you know, three months, six months, a year old like, you know, but you when you're not born there.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  That sets the precedent already. You're not born there. And then you're and then you're um, then you're the wrong color. So then you're all of a sudden, you're not born there and you're, you know, you look like a maybe a descendant of, you know, Captain Cook or something. So that's not a great scenario. Sets you up, sets you up for some for the grind, you know, sets you up for the for the for the tension and and so that's the that's kind of the beginning, right? So the beginning is that. And then we moved to another island. So we we went from being on Maui to moving to Oahu, which is the main island where like Pearl Harbor is and and and the majority of the of the population.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  It's the state capital and we happened to move and I was, I don't know if when I was like three or four, we moved to what is at the time was considered the most dangerous beach in the world. It's called the Banzai Pipeline and it's it's a world famous beach. It's where surfers at the time from all over the world would come to uh, to uh, you know, to challenge, like it was a challenge place like it was you were you think you're a good surfer. You come and surf Pipeline and Pipeline was a was a was the most danger is one of the one of the most dangerous beaches in the world for absolutely. And so I kind of began my

• 32:15Speaker 03

  my and some of this is I'm putting the other pieces from my mom's, you know, and from my mom's since passed, but from just what I know and what because obviously when you're a little that young, you're not remembering, but but I'm remembering. You know that I would uh, so we lived at a house. And so then my mom, we lived at a house that was right at this beach. And so all the surfers that would go to this wave to challenge would walk through our yard. And so I was a young, young male.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Watching all these handsome, studly, young guys come to challenge, you know, Hawaii. First of all, one of the, you know, premier places to surf in the world. It's surfing is from Hawaii. It's a Polynesian sport developed by the Hawaiians that were some of the greatest navigators in the world. And, uh, and so if not the greatest navigators in the world before longitude and latitude, they were sailing all around the world by the stars and stuff. They could, they had some crazy techniques that they, they, they learned about being able to navigate the oceans.

• 33:25Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  That's where surfing comes out of that culture, right? So, and that's the culture of Hawaii. So the ocean is all, it's all about the ocean. It's all about your skill in the ocean, your ability to fish and be in giant waves and sail and dive. And I mean, this is just, that's what you do when you're there. Cause it's, not only is it transportation, but it's substance, it's, it's everything.

• 33:47Shawn Ryan?

  Makes a lot of sense.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so I'm at that beach, craziest beach in the world. All the studliest guys are walking through my front yard. I'm watching them. I'm like, I want to be like that when I grow up. Um, I see a guy at the beach that I think was what my dad should look like. I don't have a dad, I need a dad. So I'm like, that guy looks like he'd be a good dad. And I think maybe I, I get credit for it, but I think my mom and him already knew each other. But I introduced him, I had to think he knew my mom. And so, but he, so he kind of befriended me at the beach, knowing that he might take me home. I'm not sure which one, but I introduced him, uh, to my mom and, and he ended up marrying my mom. And so that ended up becoming my, my father that I didn't have.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  And so, uh, and that was the beginning of, I mean, that was the, you know, beginning of a step. Having a father was about five years old. So five, at five years old.

• 34:43Shawn Ryan?

  So five years old, you met this, what's his name?

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Bill Hamilton.

• 34:48Shawn Ryan?

  Bill Hamilton. You met Bill.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:50Shawn Ryan?

  At five years old on the beach and said, I want you to be my dad. I want to introduce you to my mother.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 34:57Shawn Ryan?

  What, I mean, do you remember this?

• 35:00Speaker 03

  I mean, I remember it because I've told it so many times and, but yeah, I mean, I remember like him. I'm being like, I used to get, I used to get rescued a lot. I would get sucked out to sea, like in the current, because I would play at the beach and the waves would come and take me and then suck me out. And then the lifeguards would have to rescue me and then he would rescue me. So I was rescued constantly. And I just remember, you know, having him rescue me and then holding on to him and having him pull me in. And then eventually he took me on waves and I would ride his back. And that was probably before I was five, but when he married my mom when I was five, um, probably maybe the year before or something like that. So that was the,

• 35:39Speaker 03

  that was the kind of the foundation of my water, uh, you know, and then he set up a, uh, at one point I was getting taken out so often, um, that the lifeguards would go to my house and tell my mom, hey, Laird is in, out to sea again. And we've rescued him twice today. And we just, we can't, you know, we can't keep rescued. Can you just keep him? My mom, my mom would be like, no, no, Laird's in his room. He's napping. And then they'd be like, no, he's not. He's out there right now. And then she'd look and I would have crawled out my window onto like a limb of a banyan tree and climbed and got, you know, and went and went and got out in the ocean. So I was, I was, you know, So you were inseparable at five?

• 36:22Speaker 03

  Beyond. It was, it was, it was, I think I contributed to my mom's early passing to just because of, between my brother and I and maybe a couple of the men she raised. But I think that we were, you know, I think, for my mom, I was like, oh my, she was like, my God, you know, thank God you made it to 12. And then it was like, oh my God, it's a miracle. You made it to 14. And then it was like, oh my, you made it to 16, you know, because I think I just was like, it was just every day, every time. I mean, which thing, which stitch, which injury, which try, you know, it was just, that's kind of what the toy was Let's, um, wound up.

• 37:02Shawn Ryan?

  Let's, let's backtrack a little bit to

• 37:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:05Shawn Ryan?

  before Bill.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:07Shawn Ryan?

  And you had mentioned at the beginning.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:09Shawn Ryan?

  About, we were talking about addiction to adrenaline and you think that maybe that started at a, at a extremely young age. So let's talk about what the home life was like.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:21Shawn Ryan?

  Pre-Bill.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  Well, there's some stories of me attacking like my, the, one of my mom's boyfriends or one of, somebody she was going out with was like slapping her around or did something to her and I, and I, I would attack them. Like I'd be like two, two, three, two-year-old little tiny, you know, man. Attack. Like I would just attack the leg and get put, you know, pushed away. But I think I, I, my, my courage, my, my ability to not be scared and like go at stuff. I would just go at, you know, I would go at them. I would go at an adult as a little child. Like I didn't, I didn't really, it wasn't like I was, like I didn't, that didn't, I was gonna go protect my mom. And I think I had that in me.

• 38:06Speaker 03

  You know, I mean, that was in me. That was in me when I was three, two, three, four, whatever. That was in me. Like that was, that was my, that, so I think that, and again, I don't know if that came along with that fearless kind of, you know, little daredevil, like I'm gonna jump off the, you know, I mean, I just always had something, some dumb, jump off, you know, speed, take the wagon down the hill, hit the jump with the bike into the trees. And I mean, I just always just had that stuff and, but I definitely was like I'd put my down, you know, like the stories were that I'd just put my head down and I would just charge them.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  I would charge adults as a little kid and, and.

• 38:53Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence. I mean, there's all kinds of studies that's, that, that show how personalities and, and, and personality traits are developed.

• 39:04Shawn Ryan?

  They start developing immediately.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably inside, but.

• 39:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, and, um, and, and, and you were forced to learn how to overcome fear at a very young age out of necessity. You know, I think that's.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Attack, attack the adult because he's, he's hurting your mom like.

• 39:22Shawn Ryan?

  Are you close with your mom? Were you close with your mother?

• 39:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, crazy close. Yeah. I mean, my mom, I did weird stuff. I would undo all the, I would undo the stuff in my crib and get out like she had to keep, keep me in a crib when I was young and I would undo the, I would figure out how to undo and I'd be down the street. She said it was like, like I just think for her, it was just, you know, I mean, she was already. I don't know what, I think it was just like, you know, here's your, here's your new wild animal, raise it.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  But we know the development, right? We know that that's that foundation stuff is, I mean, by the time you're four, it's probably pretty cemented in at least that stuff. So I, I, I had that. And then when Bill came along, he would say, oh yeah, I took you up to Wymay Falls, like some big 50 foot, whatever. And he said, six years old, you just get back and run and jump off. And they'd be like, you know, and the guys were all, you know, freaking out. So I already had that kind of disposition. I had that, that, that thing in me that, that, you know, that I think served me well, but I think it's, you know, it's also how do you constructively vent that too? Cause you can, you can just put that in any genre. You can put that kind of

• 40:37Speaker 03

  radical charge, do anything into any category and just you're, you know, where do you go?

• 40:43Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. How was life after Bill came in to the family?

• 40:52Speaker 03

  Initially, I mean, first of all, Bill was young, younger than my mom. The fact that he took on me either meant my mom was really, you know, beautiful or, or, or, but he was willing to take that on. I think that was a big responsibility.

• 41:06Shawn Ryan?

  He was 17 at the time, correct?

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, something like that. Yeah. When he first started. So, um, and then by the time, you know, and then my brother came. And I think that, and, and also my mom wanted different things than Bill. I think Bill wanted to just, you know, surf and hang out and not, you know, and my mom was like, hey, I need a house. I need, we know, I'm not going to. Get food stamps. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna like Yeah. Live on the dole. I'm not gonna just live and I'm not gonna do that. And I think that's when their things started to, to, you know, Bill was a more like a big brother, was like a big brother. And then, and then my brother came along and I, I think that, that, that

• 41:52Speaker 03

  for me, that was more difficult because then all of a sudden, my brother was the real son and I wasn't the real son. I was so that kind of created, um, which had its pros and cons, you know, when things were good, it was like, well, I'm not, I'm not related. So I kind of have a disclaimer, but then when they were bad, then I'm not related and have this, you know, it's like, so that I had both sides of it. Uh, but, a- and like I said, him being young and then my mom being young and just the difficulty of all of it and people wanting different things and, and, and, you know, earning a living in Hawaii, it was, wasn't a lot of choice. It wasn't like there was a all these opportunities. Uh, we moved, so we moved from that beach,

• 42:39Speaker 03

  uh, you know, on, on Oahu to the Garden Island, which is Kauai, and we moved into a remote valley, um, which was probably the only house that we could rent for, you know, a hundred and dollars a month or something. And the house that we moved into from there when I was six, I would think, and my brother was just coming, um, or he, my brother had already come out. And so I was six or six, like first grade or something like that, starting my, you know, starting school had been moved a bunch of times by tidal waves and it was on the hill. It was like the highest house in the area and, and it was just a bare tin, uh, a bare tin roof with screen windows. And I think we had an outhouse in Coldwater for a while.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Uh, you know, I used to have to go on the roof and try to tar, when I got older, tar the holes and, and, uh, if it rained real hard, at one point, I think it was a big It was a big thing. We got a, you know, some kind of crappy TV with antennas. We put tin foil on them and you couldn't hear. If the rain came, you couldn't even, you couldn't hear the TV if, no matter how much you turned it up. So, but, but the valley we moved into was full of, uh, full of a, uh, just a bunch of different, uh, a bunch of different, well, there was Hawaiian families, there was Japanese families, there was all different, but we were the only, pretty much the only white family. There might've been one or two other, uh, white, white.

• 44:05Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 44:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so that, that, and then we were in the middle kind of, of, of a, the house that we rented, uh, from the old man that lived there was a Hawaiian Chinese guy and he had all the, you know, he was, it was like in the middle of a compound. You're like a little bit of a, you know, you're in the compound, but you're the only white, whites in the, in the compound. And, you know, I, I mean, the, so that's where, so we go, and we're remote, like we're, we're down a little dirt road, down another dirt road, down another dirt road, like kinda like in the boonies. So.

• 44:39Shawn Ryan?

  Back in the jungle.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  In the jungle. And, and the law of the jungle. We're in the law, we're, we're in the law of the jungles. There, there's the laws of the jungle. Uh.

• 44:49Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, from what I understand, I don't know if it's still like this, but from what I understand Hawaii is very, the people of Hawaii are very territorial.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:00Shawn Ryan?

  Is that, would that be the correct term?

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and there's a, there's a unique thing going on, which is there are a lot of different cultures, right? So you have Filipinos, you have Japanese, you have Chinese, you have Portuguese, and then you have Hawaiians, and then you have combinations of all those, and then you have Caucasians, right? And so, uh.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  And within that, you have also, you have an interesting thing, which, and I never, I mean, I learned it from growing up in it, but I always could wonder, how could somebody have so much hate for me that I never did anything to make them hate, and they never had anything really done them to them to make them hate. But they were actually, it was, it was perpetuated hate, like it was passed down, like you realize, oh, you saw a guy that had a lot of hate and you're like, oh, my God, I met the dad, the dad has even more hate, like they just had that. Yeah, they just passed it, they, so some of that, that hatred or that envy or some of that stuff was passed down. Um, just like kindness and, and, you know,

• 46:10Speaker 03

  beauty and those are, that's passed down too, right? So you had, so, uh, some of the stuff was passed down and, and, and I also saw, uh, experienced, uh, that, that's, that you could, that some culture, some people or even cultures were taking on the, the, the, the the suppression or the, or the, or the things that happened to another culture. It wasn't even theirs, but they, but they inherited it. You know, so you could have a, you could have a migrant worker that moved to someplace that took on the burdens of the native people. Because they either, well, either they got, they were, got part of it, you know, you could be 1% Hawaiian and,

• 46:54Speaker 03

  you know, 100, 99% something, one other Filipino, Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese mixture, but you would take on that you were like a, you know, you were a Hawaiian that had been, that had been suppressed kind of thing, but you were, but you weren't really, but you had, so there was all that, all and everything in between. And so, uh, you know, I used to like,

• 47:17Speaker 03

  so then, so then I lived in that environment and so which shit, which just infused me right into an opportunity to be, like, we lived next to a pig farm. Uh, we, we fished, like, I learned how to fish and dive with the Hawaiians and, and, and, and farm and kill pigs and clean and cook pigs in the ground and dry fish and that thing. I saw culturally, like for me, what the school I went to.

• 47:42Shawn Ryan?

  Was that, was that out of necessity? Or was, was that you?

• 47:48Speaker 03

  Well, it was out of necessity with my desire to immerse. Okay. So it wasn't that we couldn't eat and we had to do the thing, but, but it was, that's what was happening. That's where you were. You were, you, that's you were in a place that this is what was going on. You live next to a pig farm and they're like, you look over there and there's pigs and everybody, all the boys are over there. You're like, hey, I'm gonna go see what's going on over there. And you, all of a sudden you're in it and you're learning about it. You're doing all that. So, oh, hey, they're fishing. I'm gonna go down there and help. And you know, you just become immersed in the, in the, in the, in the, in the environment. As a, as a, you know, as part of survival, part of it's like, that's what you're doing. There's no, so, uh, so I had that thing which was beyond, and I wouldn't change one of the things that ever happened to me, not one single moment,

• 48:33Speaker 03

  because it would make it that I wouldn't be here now. I wouldn't have the family I have. I wouldn't, uh, I mean, there, I could say, hey, I wish I wouldn't have done that, but at the end of the day, not at the cost of not arriving here today. So I wouldn't change, even though during it, it's not fun and it wasn't great and I didn't love it. But you know, there was a couple, I mean, there's so many lessons and so many things that made me different. Like I would go to, you know, I would go to California coming from that environment and being, you know, I had giant, I had some of the biggest Hawaiian friends ever that were my protectors. So like at high school, if I got in a fight, the guy would just come and make sure it was like, you know, even odds and stuff and just stuff that, that,

• 49:13Speaker 03

  I mean, I had some beautiful, like the lessons, the relationships, the food, the, the learned, things I learned how to do. I mean, we, you know, Gabby would always ask me, well, how do you know how to fix that and do that? I go, well, because there was no fix it guy. Like if you had a broken bike, you learned how to fix the bike. If you had a thing, you fix the thing. You fix the electric, you fix the plumbing, you fix whatever, otherwise you don't have it. So you learn how to, you learn how to, how to fix it. And so there's stuff that I would never change and it's made me, that's what's made me so different, like in my approach and how I look at things, what I've done, because I wasn't raised in, you know, Southern California and I didn't, wasn't, you know, playing football at homecoming and I didn't have any of that stuff. I had

• 49:58Speaker 03

  quite the contrary, like you didn't go to homecoming and you couldn't really have a girlfriend because the guy, you know, because the brothers wouldn't let you be with the, you know, them, even if they liked you and you liked them. It was, that was a no-no. It was like, so we had all that stuff that, that in a way. You know, I mean, and I had Bill, the lessons I learned from him about, you know, being a man, about facing up when you're, I mean, things that, you know, unfortunately, sometimes as a parent, you know, the lessons, you know, the lessons you learn of how not to be sometimes are greater than how to be. Like, I could look and be like, I'm not gonna do that. Like, I don't wanna do that. Like, I don't respect that. I'm not gonna be that

• 50:41Speaker 03

  guy. I'm gonna be this guy. Right? So, sometimes those are more impactful. I think the, because it's the negative, the negative stuff has more power over us because we wanna avoid it, where the positive stuff has less power because it seems like if we've already done it, we already know how, we don't need to remember, but we're not, because we're not trying to avoid it. So, you know, it's like good news, bad news, you know? Travel, bad news travels a lot quicker and you tell a lot more people for a reason, because you, you know, so, but, you know, being, being, standing up for myself, I mean, Bill, I was,

• 51:20Speaker 03

  I mean, there's a bunch of things, but Bill was, was crazy. Like, he was a crazy guy. Like, um, like, like, I'll give you an example. One time I was surfing, and there was, I had a situation with a local guy, and, and he, he was gonna, he was trying to, he was gonna do something to me. I was a younger kid and he was an adult. And so, I told, I told, uh, I told Bill, and Bill was out, and, and then he went over and told the guy, like, you know, like, hey, and then they surrounded him with a, a group of guys surrounded Bill, and, and Bill was like, well, who's the first guy that's gonna drown? Which one

• 52:02Speaker 03

  of you? Because I might drown, but I'm gonna drown somebody first, maybe two, maybe three of you. And he, and they looked at him, and they went, okay, he's serious. Like, Hamilton's serious, and they just would part and go away. And so, in a way, I always, you know, it's interesting, the, the crazy dog is the one people fear. You can be not even that vicious, not even that big and strong, but he's, you just look, you go, oh, that's a crazy dog. You better stay away from him, because he's, you don't know what he's gonna do. You just don't know what he's gonna do. Right? So, I think, I, I think that, that his, that saved us a little bit, and he wasn't acting. He was for real, and so...

• 52:45Speaker 03

  That, that kind of, I think that also, I looked at that, that kind of little bit of that craziness, that, that having that temper and having that kind of incontrollability, like that, I felt that that was a, that was a little bit of a weakness in my mind. And so I think I use that as something to, to, because I have, like, we all do have tempers and have a thing, but I, I, I always thought, I, I came to realize that that was something that was, was something that, uh, that was a vulnerability. And that if actually you could keep yourself really centered and be the more chaotic they got, and the more radical stuff got, the more you were able to, to center and be

• 53:30Speaker 03

  aware and be the better and more effective you are. And, and that ended up helping me, like, that's helped me throughout my whole life and especially in heavy situations, no matter what they are, didn't matter what, what it was. I'm just not good. And Gabby always laugh, she says, you're just terrible in the day to day. Like the day to day mania, I'm just like, oh, here we go again. It's just like the, like, if it's all a wreck and, you know, everything's on fire, I'm, I'm just, yeah, I feel like, hey, I'm, I got a real purpose. I, there's a reason for me to be here. The rest of the time, I'm just like, what's, you know, here we go. What are we doing?

• 54:06Shawn Ryan?

  That's home for you. Chaos is home.

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. And it started in the ocean. It was on land. It's been, it was everywhere. And so I, I feel like, and I have to seek it out. I have to be careful because sometimes you ask for it and then you get it in a way. Like I was one few years ago, I was like, oh, I need some chaos. And then it was like, all of a sudden you're in a giant fire. I'm like, well, maybe not this chaos. And then you're like, hey, I need some chaos. And there's a huge hurricane. You're like, oh, maybe not that chaos. You know, it's like, I need like more controlled chaos, like in the bottom of my swimming pool with a dumbbell or, you know, or, or on a giant wave where I, I have, you know, a little more experience, but the

• 54:40Shawn Ryan?

  It's, it's interesting how humans will

• 54:44Shawn Ryan?

  Recreate where they're comfortable and if you're if you're comfortable and stress and chaos and everything feels like it's falling apart, you you will recreate that exact scenario over and over throughout your life because that's where you feel at home.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:01Shawn Ryan?

  And I can relate to that.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, now I just now. So now I I'm trying to do that with real like let the environment do it, have it be controlled, like whether it's in maybe it's chaotic a little bit and you're super hot, super cold, you know, gotta hold my breath, I'm underwater like that. So there's some stress stuff that we can do kind of in in a in a in a in a in a little bit of a controlled environment that makes it more constructive and and less destructive and and more, you know, like a like you you. But and then and then also have it be something that the that there's only the positive can come out of it because a lot of times those chaotic situations that the aftermath is

• 55:45Speaker 03

  there's damage everywhere and let's not let's try to avoid that. So you've been, you know, it's like you go through that, but but the ocean is a provider of that situation. It can it's ready and available and willing at any moment. You want to go get yourself into something a little bit grabby, it's there. She's just ready and willing and, you know, it's.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  She's she's she's ready and willing for you anytime. But that but so that's like like that's my, you know, that's my upbringing. My high school was crazy. You know, there used to be a thing called Kill Holly Day. That was the last day of school. So it was like they kill white people pretty much. It was Kill Holly is a white guy. So Kill Holly Day was last day of school.

• 56:31Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Do you have Kill Holly Day at my school? I go, yeah, I go there and kill Holly's.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  You know, but the reason why the last day of school was that was Kill holiday day was because you couldn't get suspended.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  Cause it was already summer. So, but you know, I went to a, I mean, I had a bunch of, uh, my school was really a giant school. We had a bunch of kids, uh, like 2,500 kids. I think at one point it might've been, you know, third or fourth in the nation for crime and violence. Like we had like a crazy, like East LA, the Bronx, and then some, my, like, my school had, you know, knife and shoot and, you know, just crazy 40 kids in a class and one, you know, and then seven through 12 altogether, some crazy, and then I had to ride a bus for like two hours to get there. It was just a disaster. So I was just like, this schooling thing, this sucks. Uh, I, and I ended up, uh, eventually having my mom sign me out. My mom signed me

• 57:32Speaker 03

  out of school because I just wasn't going to go and I went to work. So I went in the 11th grade. She was like, she, because she was a single parent at the time, she was able to somehow get me. It just wasn't, there was nothing good about it. So did bills, did bills stick around? No, my, my mom and dad, uh, they, they, they parted ways probably when I was 12, something like that, 12 or 13. So, or, or no, they were, no, I'm sorry. I was a little older than that, but by then I had already, they were kind of, uh, off and on and I had already like, by the time I was 16, I was already kind of out the door. I had, I had opportunities to go and try to just, you know, go be somewhere else and, and, uh, which, which,

• 58:15Speaker 03

  and my brother didn't. He was, he was, he was there, but my mom, but then they event, they were, they were, they were broken apart. And later my mom got a really, had a really nice, uh, a nice guy for the last about 18 years of her life before she passed away. But she ended up starting a helicopter company, was a first tour company in the state and then built, you know, built a house and night, she, my mom was, my mom was an animal. She pulled out of it. My mom was an animal, like her work ethic and her, my mom was a, was a, was a, you know, I mean, my mom read the book, The Wall, that a book she read. My mom would read a novel, like just a big, thick book in a weekend. Like she'd start on Friday and just read, like

• 58:58Speaker 03

  profuse reader, amazing, you know, just a, a, a smart. A smart lady and you know, one of the things that she did for me as a young boy was develop my imagination. So my mom used to read me. And I think that's probably why I started, other than I had some educational issues, but with reading. They messed me up. One of the programs definitely messed me up, but then my mom would read to me. And so I really had no reason to read, but she read me like the Lord of the Rings, the entire trilogy. When I was really young, she read me Dune. She read me, you know, Jonathan Livingston. She read me all these crazy,

• 59:38Speaker 03

  crazy books growing up that really kind of opened my imagination. Wow. Which, you know, which I think had a really profound effect on on me. Later on, just in my creativity and and all of that. Are you still, do you still, are you and Bill still close? I try to, to, to, you know, be close to him, but it's, I don't think he really wants to be close. I think part of his upbringing and and his thing about intimacy, I think it's, I think it's hard for him to,

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  you know, and and maybe we're like, I'm a reminder, I have daughters that he's getting older and he maybe, I think, I think part of his thing, he still wants to be, you know, a young handsome surf guy and and I don't know if that comes from not being fulfilled, maybe as a, as you know, not getting everything out of it that he wanted or could have, or I I'm not sure, sure.

• 1:00:47Speaker 03

  I just know he has granddaughters and you know, and like what you realize is that you, it's your responsibility to develop the relationship. If you wanted a relationship with your granddaughters, then you gotta have a relationship. You gotta go and take, you gotta make the effort like. Put the time in. Yeah, you know, and I, I see, I, when I was 21, I, I found my real dad. And I, I found him and. Really? Hold on. What, what triggered that? I mean, obviously you want to meet your real dad, but why at 21, what happened? Just, I think at that point, I, I was in. Uh, I was in California. I had uh some connections that might have known where he was

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  or something like that. I was just interested in, you know, meeting my, my biological father. I just wanted to, to, to have that. I just had the curiosity. It was like a, a weird thing inside, like curiosity, like, hey, and so I found him.

• 1:01:46Shawn Ryan?

  Were you worried? Was there any, was there any fear in finding and meeting your biological father?

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, uh, maybe a li- a little, little bit, like maybe a little, a little, a little, you know, I think it's unknown. I think the unknown, like, how are you gonna, how are you gonna respond? Like, hey, where were you? Why come you didn't do anything? Oh, you didn't help mom? The, you know, like, all those things, I think, you know, you have a, I, I feel like I was curious

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  to meet him and the, and like, I wanted to know, like, why he wasn't, didn't participate, wasn't interested, like, if he wasn't, was he? Was he? Was he, you know, was he, wasn't he interested? Like, maybe he was, but my mom was like in Hawaii and didn't make it so he could. And you just don't know, it's a domestic, right? And you, so you don't. But I had, I had, I wanted to meet him. I wanted to look at him and see him and, and kind of answer maybe some of those, all those questions that you have, uh, when you have somebody kind of just that you're related to, that's your father, birth, I mean, you, you know, that, that your blood related to. And I went and had a, uh, met him at a, like

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  a cafe and sat down and had a, had a breakfast with him and

• 1:03:13Shawn Ryan?

  How'd you find him?

• 1:03:15Speaker 03

  I threw some people that knew, that knew, like, somebody that my mom, one of my mom's friends that had, had, you know, that had word. And then I called and I'm like, okay, well, you know, where is he? And then, oh, we heard he's here, call so and so. And I just, you know, detective. I just did my detective thing. And eventually he was, I, I got him and I'm like, hey, it's Laird.

• 1:03:37Shawn Ryan?

  You called him?

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:38Shawn Ryan?

  What was the initial conversation like?

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

  You know, I mean, part of it, I just block out, right? So some of it was like, there's a block out. I think he was a little bit like, hey, how's it, you know, how you, how's it, how you doing? Or something like that. It was kinda, you know, it was, it was like, I mean, how, how awkward is it gonna be? Pretty much it's gonna be awkward. Like, no matter what, it's gonna be like, hey, where were you? How could we, you know, well, hey, how's it going? You know, it's like, hey, I'm 21 years old. I'm a man already. You haven't even seen me for, you know, ever. Um, maybe saw things of me or whatever, but, but, uh,

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  but, uh, you know, the truth is that once I had, once I sat with him and had ate and spent some time, I realized that we didn't have anything. There was nothing, we didn't have any experiences.

• 1:04:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  That we had nothing. Like, we didn't have any, we didn't go to the park, we didn't go to a movie, we didn't. So we had no experience. We had some similar, first of all, visual traits, like, look like each other. Um, probably some behavioral stuff, like some of the issues that I, that I've had to deal with were probably a gift from him. Uh, you, you know, the, uh, but that really kinda made it like, oh, no, I'm good. I'm okay. Like, cool. Okay, you're good. Like, I answered that question. I went, I found, I saw, I talked, and I went, and I'm, I wasn't ready at that time to go, hey, I wanna establish a relationship with you and try to develop a thing. I'm going like that, and you're over here, and, uh,

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  and so that almost like made that good. Like, I was, I was, I was good with that. Uh, and in a way, kinda harsh, I guess, but I was just, it more like, it was like an answered, it was like a, a, a, a door that I looked behind and went, okay, cool. And then you shut the door and I'm good. And so later on, you know,

• 1:05:36Shawn Ryan?

  Did, did any of the questions get answered? Like, why he had left, or?

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  You know, I, I think part of, one of the things that came out of it was that maybe he wanted to go, so my mom just went and cut tie, like she's like, oh, you're gonna, you're not gonna participate, boom. So it wasn't like, you know, cause I was always like, well, how come he didn't send a thing, or did he send a card, or didn't try to support you, or didn't, thing like that. And I'm like, maybe even if he had tried, maybe she, you know, again, it's a domestic, it's between a man and a woman. And it's like, and so I think there's that, which is like, maybe it wasn't just straight up, like, he just went, didn't care and didn't go, like, didn't participate. So part of, part of it was that. But the other part was, uh, maybe he was incapable of it, but I realized that, that we just had nothing

• 1:06:26Speaker 03

  in common, like, other than maybe a couple propensity to like, you know, have a bar fight or something, like, you know, like, like, we just didn't have anything. And so I was good with that. Like, I was good with, I was okay with, with, uh, and, and you know, in the conversation that we had, there were things that I could relate to, like, that I was relating to traits, that I was like, oh, I have potential to have that trait or that trait, or I see some of my thing in him, you know, that I, some of the things that I have from him, I could see it, other than, not just physical, but, you know, because emotional things are downloaded. I mean, we had, they say we have 14 generations of

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  trauma on our DNA. I mean, we, you know, you can download a, a trait, an emotion. There's no doubt that that stuff, it's not just physical. People always, oh, you, they look like each other. Yeah, no, you download. I mean, the information's, you know, I don't think we can even measure it. But, so I, I was, I was good. Like, I, I was good with it. I answered, and, and I, and actually, and probably not really that great of me, but later on, uh, years, a few years later, I guess he was trying to reach out to me, like, on his deathbed or whatever. And I was like, I, I was like, yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, I'm sorry. You know, okay, bye. Like, but I didn't have any urge to like, go there

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  and be there. And I just didn't, I didn't feel like that kind of obligation. And, you know, it made me realize like, how, that's why adoption works, right? That's why adoption drill, because when you take and you cherish and you love and you experience, that's the connection that you've You build, you build through time, through investment. You don't just, you know, you're not, you don't just get because you're related. You don't just get it. You don't get it. It's you have to earn it like you earn the, you earn this thing. Like you earned it. And so, and I, you know, with Bill, I think with Bill, I love Bill. I just him and our values are so different that, you know, I, and I, and I'm like, I'm focused on my,

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  you know, my wife, my daughters, my work, my thing. I like, I just feel like, and, and my brother and him are, you know, they have a, have a, uh, they, they now have a, a, a relation, a civil relationship. And I have a civil relationship with him. And I realize that maybe that's just all that they're, that we can do. Like that's the, that, that the end, all we can have is that, that that's the highest level that we can get. We can't get to anything beyond just like a, a civil understanding and a relationship. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and it's, it's, I mean, you know, my, I have a, a great friend, Mr. Wildman, and I've had of

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  more than one, uh, in my life, men that were, that, that were, were my mentors, but that I looked up to like father or grandfather or, you know, those kinds of men that, that represent, you know, and that you don't need to be related. But, you know, he always used to say, if you want fair, you go to the fairgrounds. You know, like, it's not fair. Like, we're not, there's nothing fair about any of this stuff. It's not fair. So this doesn't so, but yeah, the, the, it is, it is, it is, you know, I mean, it's your, it's your, you want a daughter, you want a relationship with your daughter, you better have a relationship with your daughter. Like, you know, like you want a relationship with your son, you want a relationship with your, you gotta put, this is, this is, you gotta put the time in.

• 1:10:01Shawn Ryan?

  This is a, this is a very interesting conversation that I didn't plan on digging into, but when you met your father, your biological father.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:11Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, did you sense any, any guilt or regret?

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  By him?

• 1:10:17Shawn Ryan?

  By him.

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  I don't know if he had that capacity.

• 1:10:21Shawn Ryan?

  But he did reach out to you. He did reach out to you on his death.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, he did on his deathbed.

• 1:10:27Shawn Ryan?

  Is that the next time you heard from him?

• 1:10:29Speaker 03

  Now that you're gonna die?

• 1:10:30Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you're gonna put this on me?

• 1:10:32Speaker 03

  Now you, now you want to, now you, now that you're gonna die, now you wanted, now you wanted, I mean, I, I, you know, I appreciate it, you know, and, you know. But, but.

• 1:10:42Shawn Ryan?

  That was the next time you heard from him. You, you met him at a coffee shop and then didn't talk to him again until, hey, I'm dying.

• 1:10:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Shawn Ryan?

  What, what, did he, what, what, what did he, what does he say, what is, what would he, what did he say to you? On his deathbed? I mean, abandoned you as a kid.

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Shawn Ryan?

  Met you once at a coffee shop at age 21. How, how much time had passed between that and?

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  Probably another 15, 12 years, something like that, some decent time.

• 1:11:12Shawn Ryan?

  Over a decade later and the next phone call is, hey, I'm dying.

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Shawn Ryan?

  What, I mean, how did that conversation go?

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  Short.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  You know, not, not, not a lot to talk about. Not like, hey, sorry about that, you know, have a good, well, may I'll see you there. I mean, like.

• 1:11:33Speaker 03

  You know, not, I mean, it's in a way, I guess there's a harshness to that, but it's, it's, it's, you know, that's just, that's the real, that was just the reality of it. The reality of it was that there just wasn't, I didn't, I didn't have a huge thing about it.

• 1:11:46Shawn Ryan?

  There's no emotional connection.

• 1:11:48Speaker 03

  I, no, no, because I didn't, because I, because there, because there was no, I have friends that I have deep, you know, that I mourn, like, I, I didn't, I don't, I just didn't, there were, I did, it was almost like, barring a phone call, a breakfast,

• 1:12:08Speaker 03

  that was about the extent of the relationship. I mean, there's not a lot there, like, it's, you know, minute, two minutes, I mean, and, and I, and I think, and I don't know if. Part of it was, and I, and I, and it may be because my mom was a little bit estranged from her family. And so we, our family was always the immediate family. And even now, like, we don't really have grandparents, barely. Gabby and I both have, you know, our relationship is pretty much us. I mean, we, we, we don't, so we don't, it's not like we had all of the associated guilt that gets developed with a lot of the, hey, weren't thing and this and that, you know, having like, hey, you weren't here and you gotta

• 1:12:50Speaker 03

  be like that. And all your parents passed away and you, that's what you do. And you, like, we didn't have a lot of that, that built in. I, I mean, I didn't, just given that I had barely even, you know, we lived in Hawaii, my, it was my mom and like, I had some relatives, I had, you know, grandparents that were Bill's things that I wasn't even related to because it was Bill's. And, you know, my, my mom's, we, I saw my grandmother and she was meaner than a rattlesnake. And, I mean, it was like, you know, like, but minimal contact because we didn't live where they were, we were away from them. So we, I think some of it was that. I think the piece of it was that we were, that we weren't, uh, you know, we weren't, we didn't have all that inner family, see grandma on the

• 1:13:32Speaker 03

  week, grandparents have, you know, have a, have a, have a, barely in the, in the structure of, you know, mom and dad. It's like so. So I think that, that, that also kind of not, didn't make me have a huge, you know, uh, I mean, I have, I've had dogs that I mourned more, you know. I mean, and that's the truth. That's, I mean, that might be harsh, but that's just the reality of, just the level of the depth of the relationship was something that was just, we didn't have, we had no, it wasn't like, hey, remember the time we did the thing and da, da, da, da, da, and all these, we didn't have that. That sometimes that stuff is invisible, but it's the bond that we build through the layers of experiences that we have with each other. The things that we do, the Christmas,

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  the movie, the scary thing, the injuries, the, you know, the, the, hey, I took you to the, I mean, I remember one time I broke my leg. And I had been, I had ditched school every, I think I ditched school every day for a whole quarter. I had some crazy things. So I had dinner with, on Sunday night. And I'm just using this as an example of developing experiences together in relationship. So, Sunday night we had dinner and my mom and, uh, Bill and my mom aren't together, but, but, but Bill has to give me the, hey, you better go to school thing. So I get the, hey, you better go to school, but he lives in, in another house with another person down in town. And, and so, yeah, on Sunday, okay, I'm gonna go to, yeah, I'll go to school.

• 1:14:57Speaker 03

  Then the next day I'm in the bus and the waves are beyond good. Like it's as good as it gets. And I'm like,

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  I just, I just go like that. The bus stops, I get off the bus, I go straight, I go out, I get run over. A guy runs me over and I'm probably sixteen, fifteen, sixteen. Compound my leg, break my, break, compound my leg. I gotta walk across the reef. I got thing. I finally get to the car. My friend takes me and drives me to my dad's house. So at, this is at nine AM on Monday morning, after the Sunday night talk about going to school. My dad goes, get in the car. And I, and I swear he hit every pothole for the hour and a half ride to the hospital that he could find. He would just turn off the road to hit bumps, just ah, you know, but we, him and I have that.

• 1:15:53Speaker 03

  We, we, we, we have that to talk about. Like we have that experience that we had. I mean, and all the ones that we had over the, of our relationship, all the times, all the things that we had over, over that process. We have that, no matter what. So we have that bond, even if we just, hey, how you going? How you going? We still have this thing that we built with all of these experiences, right? And so when you don't have that, there's none of that, zero.

• 1:16:20Speaker 03

  Not a lot to talk about. I mean, you know, and, and, and, and less, and, and actually not a lot to feel. More importantly, because this is an invisible thing. And so you don't, you don't even feel it. You're like, you look, you go, I have no feeling towards that. I just don't have any, I like.

• 1:16:37Shawn Ryan?

  The reason I want to dive into this so much is, and, uh, don't, don't quote my statistics here, but.

• 1:16:43Speaker 03

  I don't mind either.

• 1:16:45Shawn Ryan?

  If I, if I remember correctly, I believe it's damn near 25% of the US population is fatherless. You know, they don't have a, a, a male role model in, in, in the family dynamic. And it's, I mean, you see it today. It's created the situation where there aren't a lot of, there, there aren't a lot of positive male role models to begin with in the country.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 1:17:10Shawn Ryan?

  In the, in the world, I believe at this point.

• 1:17:12Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 1:17:13Shawn Ryan?

  And so, and you see it every, even, even the ones that do have homes, a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of deadbeat dads out there. You see, I talk about this all the time, but you go to the store, you see kids, they have male teenage kids with

• 1:17:30Shawn Ryan?

  zero self-confidence. You know, they can't look you in the eye. They look at their shoes. They don't know how to communicate. And, and all of these things are because they don't, they don't have a, there's no male figure to look up to.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:45Shawn Ryan?

  And, um, and it's, it's becoming more and more scarce as time goes on. So another thing that I want to ask you about is, is Bill, I mean, was he your, was he a male?

• 1:17:58Shawn Ryan?

  Did he fill a role in your life that you looked up to?

• 1:18:01Speaker 03

  Definitely a male. Definitely a man, like, like in, you know, like.

• 1:18:06Shawn Ryan?

  It doesn't sound like it was the healthiest relationship.

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  When you're wrong. You put your head down and you take your punishment like a man when you're wrong. And when you're right, you lift your chin up and you go to the death. Like that's like, so there's some values that he had that that as a male. Now I had other fortunate males as well, like I was fortunate to be around. I was also in a time when there was more of these male figures that I would, that I respected and I looked up to. Uh, and other families like that we were near that I was like, that dad is like that guy is, you know? And, and I would say a lot of it is, you know, I have tried to become the father that maybe I thought I wanted.

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  Or maybe the thought, or what I think of what a father should be, or whatever that is, right? So, uh, and it doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It just means that, it doesn't mean that I didn't have a dad, but it just means I want, I, I've been trying to be the dad. Through the either dads that I looked at that I thought, well, that's a good father. Or I like that about that guy as a dad and I like this part about this guy as a dad. And I like that part about that guy. And, and I try to, you know, amalgamize those and put those all together into one thing and be that. Uh, but, but you know, Bill, um, there were things of course that I didn't respect.

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  That ways that, that he was that I ended up using as things of how to be. So I, I did that too. Like I went like, oh yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to do that. That, that, or that doesn't work out well. You know, I watch, I go, oh, that, don't do that. Like, I mean, you know, most of the time we need to learn from our own mistakes. It is cool if you can look and go, hell yeah, don't, that doesn't work out well. Let's try to learn from that and not actually have to go through it. Some of it I've had to go through, but some of it I haven't. So I had that, but you know, there were things that Bill taught me that. For sure, were masculine traits, male traits, respectable traits.

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  And that was a bigger one was just being a man and facing stuff. Hey, you did something wrong, gotta go to the house, knock on the door. Go tell the guy, hey, yeah, yeah, it's me, I did it, or, you know, face it. You know, I mean, I think.

• 1:20:24Shawn Ryan?

  Consequences.

• 1:20:25Speaker 03

  Simple. And by the way, we make it complicated. Some of the stuff is very simple. Let's like, let's not complicate it, like, like, you know, like honor, respect. Like, you know, these values that, that, that make us men. I go, it's not tricky, like, don't try to make it all elaborate. I always, I believe that when you're trying to make things too elaborate, you're disguising imperfection. When things are perfect, it's just a square. It can be perfect. And a perfect square is aesthetically pleasing, right? And you have to decorate it when it's not, when it's not square and perfect. So I, I think for me, that there are some male traits that Bill gave me that I, that I obviously was blessed to get.

• 1:21:10Speaker 03

  And that Bill was put into my life for a reason to get those. There's no doubt that I would, and I would only thank him for that. Some of the processes that I had to go through, I didn't love it. And I would, and, and, but that doesn't mean that I didn't, I haven't benefited from that. So, you know, and I had some other great male role models as well in my life that, that, you know, I was able to cherry pick through.

• 1:21:38Shawn Ryan?

  How did you, how did you find those masculinity roles? How, how did you find the male role models? Because, because there are.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not easy.

• 1:21:49Shawn Ryan?

  Millions of kids looking for that today.

• 1:21:51Speaker 03

  It's not easy. It's not, I mean, you know, I, I, part of it, I think, you know, I, I, the, the best way to describe it is, is that.

• 1:22:02Speaker 03

  Because people talk about looking for the truth, right? We talk all the time, we're saying, "I'm looking for the truth, how do you know it's the truth?" I go, "It's like being a hunter." If you're a hunter, you know and understand the behavior and the characteristics of the animal. You just do. You know where the animal goes. You know where the tracks look like. You know the call, you know all the stuff. And the more you do that, the better you get at it. And the better you get at it, it's like being a good fisherman. You start to just understand everything, right? So if you're looking for the truth, you start identifying the truth and looking for the truth, you get better at the truth. Pretty soon, you can just see the truth everywhere. You're like, "Oh, there's the truth over there. There's the truth over there. That's not the truth, that's not the truth." There's an elk, that's an elk. You know, it's like you start to be able to identify that stuff. So I think as, i- i- if you see things,

• 1:22:47Speaker 03

  if there's things that you respect and traits that you, that you, you look for those men. You, all of a sudden, you be surprised, "Hey, I really like, I really think, I, you know." But you have to have those other values, right? You have to be able to know, like, "I'm looking for a man that, you know, that's, that has a certain kind of respect and the people that, you know, that, that has discipline." "Okay, I respect a man, I always respect a man with discipline." I go, "Look, I..." And then all of a sudden, you look around, "Oh, that man has a lot of discipline." You look at that, "Oh, there's another one." You know, and then you try to gravitate towards those, those guys that have those traits. Say, "Oh, he's got, he's got, you know, honor." "Okay, uh, honor, discipline." "Okay, yeah, he's got that, those values."

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  You'll find them, they're there. You just have to, first you have to know what you're looking for. You have to be able to go, "Hey, I'm looking for somebody that has those, those foundational things." I, I mean, I don't, you know, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? I mean, I, I, I, I don't know, do you learn it? You know, I mean, I had men that I respected that people be like, "Well, how do you, you know, how can you be with that guy?" Or how do you, I go, "Well, you don't know him, first of all." Like, I know him. And also, maybe they don't, they're not capable of seeing the thing in him. The thing that, that makes, that, that, that I can see, that I can see the loyalty, the honor, the, you know, those values that, that at the end are the foundational values of what you...

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  Have done and what you do in your world, same in my world, those are the same things. Those aren't different. It's not like a good man is a good man, honorable, loyalty, truth. I mean, that doesn't, doesn't change. It's not like it's one over here and something different over there. No, it's the same stuff. Get the big book and open up and read down the thing and look for the thing. It's like, it's right there. It's in writing everywhere. It's all there for you to see. It's just, sometimes it's not the easiest to actually do. That's the, that's where the work comes in.

• 1:24:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:56Shawn Ryan?

  Would you say, would you say you came from a broken home?

• 1:25:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, when I look at it, when I, when I look at what I think about that, I go, you know, actually, it seems like in my life, when I look around, it's more rare to have what I have with my daughters and my wife right now, that a solid couple that are together with the kids, with the thing, like, which is what we consider, how, I don't know what the word is, but like, like a whole family or

• 1:25:31Shawn Ryan?

  Family unit.

• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  Not, not broken, but I go, well, that's more rare. Like, like, cause you can say, well, 25% of the population or whatever the percentage is only has single parent. I go, yeah, but then you probably have another, however many more that have ones that are like, broken within it, broken within it. So what's the difference if it's broken out of it or broken in it? It's all broken. So, and when you get down to like, how many are, how many real whole families, like, like family units, real whole family units are there? That's the most rare one. Like, at the end of the day, I go, the, everybody who acts like that's the normal and these other ones are, I go, no, it's more rare to see that, that, that, and I don't know, maybe, has it always been like that? Maybe it's always

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  been like that. I don't, I don't know if it's that the real, that, that, that's where you're striving to, that you're trying to strive to that.

• 1:26:23Shawn Ryan?

  I don't think it's always been like that. I mean, if you look at the World War II generation, you know, they, they call it the greatest generation of all time.

• 1:26:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:31Shawn Ryan?

  You don't see a lot of that.

• 1:26:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:33Shawn Ryan?

  You see.

• 1:26:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it, but it might, but it might not have been complete.

• 1:26:37Shawn Ryan?

  Publicized.

• 1:26:38Speaker 03

  Well, also couldn't have been complete, like. Like the relationship itself between the male and the female might not have been totally optimum.

• 1:26:48Shawn Ryan?

  True.

• 1:26:50Speaker 03

  So they might have stayed together and not got divorced and doing the thing and doing all this stuff. But at the end of the day, it might have been like, and also it was a different time too. I mean, we've gotten ourselves in a time where we, it's almost like we both were to survive. You almost have to be mutual breadwinners. You gotta be mutual work. Like there's everything you gotta be working a lot more like, I think the provider, uh, you know, taking care relationship has, obviously that dynamic has changed. I mean, maybe that's when we're in the optimum because I think it's like with, it's like with Gabby and I, we, we, it takes a special guy that can handle a woman that has her, her act together. But you, now, most guys can't handle that. Most guys, you get a real, you get a woman that's a, that can, that's got her,

• 1:27:35Speaker 03

  that's really got her, her, so she's self-sufficient.

• 1:27:38Shawn Ryan?

  It can be intimidating for a lot of men.

• 1:27:41Speaker 03

  Totally. They, they're like, oh, too much for me. I need one that's more dependent. Like, cause that makes me feel as a provider, but that just really speaks more to your insecurity than it does to that, to there. Like you just have to be more like, hey, cool, but I'm still the guy and I can, I still do all the things I need to do. I, I don't even have to be the breadwinner. I can, you know, lift a heavy beam or fix the toilet or whatever it is like. Yes, but having that, so I think that those, I think a big piece of if, if there's the turmoil has to do partly with that. Right? It has to do with the dynamics of, that we're not in our optimum positions, that we're not, where, you know, it's not just so clear, like provision, substantive, like we're not able to work so evenly together.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Or, or in our, in our proper roles. I think there's some role stuff that, that definitely is influencing the dynamic. I just, you know, again, having a, a mom that, the way my mom was, put me in a whole nother level with my relationship with, uh, In my relationship and being able to deal with, you know, having, having a woman that, that, that is strong and being, you know, and not, not, not strong because women have their strength no matter what. But it's just in that, hey, I don't need you. Like I can, I can provide for myself and you're kind of like, oh, what do you mean? You don't need me. You gotta need me. I need, if you don't need me, then who am I? And you know, like, so we have all that stuff that we have to work out.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  Uh, which is our own, our job. Like it's, it's our job to figure out, you know, Gabby and I talk about, I go, I'll go figure out how to be happy. And then I'll come back happy and then you go figure out how to be happy and then you come back, but not if you behave like this, then I'll be happy. And oh no, if you behave like that, I'll be happy. It's like, that doesn't work.

• 1:29:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  You, you can't put that on each other.

• 1:29:29Shawn Ryan?

  We talked a little bit about generational trauma and, and, and generational curses and stuff. Does your mom? What was her upbringing? Like, was it similar?

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Shawn Ryan?

  So you were the one to break the generational trauma.

• 1:29:43Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:29:45Shawn Ryan?

  You, you know, that is extremely rare. That doesn't happen very often. And listening to your upbringing, I mean statistically, you never should have made it out of that neighborhood in Hawaii.

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:55Shawn Ryan?

  You know, now.

• 1:29:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:57Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you've got an entire legacy.

• 1:30:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:01Shawn Ryan?

  You know, you're obviously a very successful entrepreneur. Your surfing career is legendary. You have a, uh, what appears on the outside to be a very nourishing family life, uh, with your daughters, your, your, I mean, we, at breakfast and on the way here, you were talking about, you know, fatherhood and what it's like to raise daughters because I have one on the way and, and, I mean, that's a, that is amazing. You know, nobody, there's a very small percentage of the population that breaks generational trauma. And you've done it. And I don't know if you know how you've done it, but I'm going to ask, you know, how, how did you do it? Nobody does this.

• 1:30:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:46Shawn Ryan?

  And it's important because.

• 1:30:49Shawn Ryan?

  You can see the trajectory of, of, of families, you know, and, and it's not headed in a good direction.

• 1:30:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:57Shawn Ryan?

  So how can people break that, that curse?

• 1:31:01Speaker 03

  I, I, I mean, I, and I, I can only kind of try to guess at the things that have, that helped me. Uh, I mean, there's no doubt that, that faith is a big animal, like faith and God is a, is a piece of-

• 1:31:19Shawn Ryan?

  Are you a Christian man?

• 1:31:20Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, I have been for a long time. Yeah. Of course.

• 1:31:24Shawn Ryan?

  Cool. Well, I'll, I'll let you finish this, then we'll dive into some of that.

• 1:31:28Speaker 03

  Well, the, the, I mean, I, like I said, having faith and, and, and, and, you know, that power that you get, like, or the power that gets given to you, or how, whatever way we wanna, we wanna cut that. I mean, I think that that's a, that's a, a, a important, um, I think, I mean, listen, I think, uh, I think some of it's chance, you know, some of it's by chance, that, which you, you, but then if you believe in predestined and you believe that it's been written before, that somewhere in it, you know, I think my, my destiny, or should I say my life, I, I,

• 1:32:10Speaker 03

  I, I, it's, it's been laid before me, I'm just walking on the, on the path that's been written. And so, so some of it's that, some of it I'm just, you know, going through the process. I mean, di- di- discipline, faith, um, you know, fortune, I think I've been, I'm lucky to, I probably shouldn't be here more than once. I, I can imagine you can probably relate to that, you know, I, I know I shouldn't, I mean, I, I think I've, you know, I've definitely- You know, I definitely more than once, more than twice. That usually. There's a list, a long list. And so I think that there's that. I mean, I, you know, I, I,

• 1:32:54Speaker 03

  but, but having faith, I, I, you know, that and believing, you know, like, it's like I told, I, I tell Gabby sometimes when things are tight, I go, you know, it's been okay. It is okay. It's gonna be okay. Like, I think that that's a big piece of it. You really have to, and you have to want to, like, you really have to want to, like, you know, I, I always meet guys that, you know, because they talk to me about, you know, quitting drinking and stuff. And, and I go, but do you want to? I go, because if you don't want to, it doesn't matter. No one can do anything for you. Like, there's just nothing. And you, and, and you can't say, yeah, yeah, I want to. No, but do you want to? Like, do you want to? Because there's a big difference between yeah, yeah, I want to, and yeah, I want to. Like, how, how much do you want to? Like, because if

• 1:33:39Speaker 03

  you want to, really want to, then you can. But if you kind of want to, that's good luck. That'll never happen. It'll never happen. So I, and I would, I would, I would connect it to that. I would connect it to really wanting to have like this family that, you know, what's important to me, like my daughters, spending time with them, drive, being daddy Uber, you know, being the Uber and driving to the school and making that being a priority. It's just like the thing around your health, like taking care of this, like, you can't, if you don't take care of this, then this thing doesn't work. And so if you're, and if you're wondering why, you know, you're struggling, it's like, well, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta make the motor run, man.

• 1:34:23Speaker 03

  You gotta take care of the motor, because the motor has all the impact on the, on the, on the, you know, on this, on all the, on the, all the keyboards, the chemistry. It's like, and so, you know, we're, we're. I think all of that, right? All those pieces. I think I've been fortunate that I just, all the spokes, man, I just tighten, you know, I went, oh yeah, I gotta tighten that spoke. And, cause you know, anyone, I always look at it like a wheel and you look at it like the spokes. Any loose spoke, man, that thing, there's just a little bump in it. Where is it? Where is it happening? Where is it happening in your, you know, are you looking at some crap on the internet? Are you, are you, you know, are you drinking some something over here? Are you doing that?

• 1:35:08Speaker 03

  Where is it happening? Where? And then, and there's no, there's no perfection. That's, that's nonexistent. There's not, everything in nature, every cell, every snowflake, every grain of sand is different. The shape's different. It's like, there's no, it's the perfectly imperfect. It's like the, but, you know, where are the areas that you can, that you, cause that's your only fighting chance.

• 1:35:29Shawn Ryan?

  What's creating the drag?

• 1:35:31Speaker 03

  It's your only fighting chance. It's your only fighting chance. The only fighting chance is just reduce the thing, reduce all the, all the, anything that could be contributing to make it more difficult to your, and I mean, like I said, when I, when I, cause, cause I had, I was, you know, I love drinking, right? Like, and I didn't drink until, well, when I was a kid, there's a, I, I was at a party when I was a little kid and in Hawaii, it was just coolers were open, drink. And I drank so much beer one night as like a little kid and vomited. My, my mom and I were vomiting the whole night. And then I didn't drink at all ever until I was like 18, like the smell of beer would, or 16, like 17, the smell was just like, it was just, it made me have a flashback.

• 1:36:15Speaker 03

  And then I started drinking beer culturally, like hanging out with the boys. It's just, it was more of, it's the thing. Uh, and then I started drinking wine and, and, and stopped drinking beer, fattening. And I had my French, I had a couple of French things, cause I, I was, spent a lot of time in France. I was sponsored by a French company for about 20 years. And so my French habit, one of my French habits was nice red wine, you know, it's whatever. My mom was, was an alcoholic.

• 1:36:44Speaker 03

  You know, I always talk about alcoholics like surfing. Everybody's a surfer and everybody's an alcoholic. It's just whether you drink or you surf. But we're all naturally alcoholics and surfers. What people, what do you mean? I go, there's not a person alive that wouldn't love standing on a board and riding a wave. There's just nobody. I don't care if you're from Russia, in the middle of Siberia, or from, it doesn't matter. Just like I being alcoholic. There's no one, there's no human that doesn't like to drink. That's wouldn't like the feeling of drinking. It's, that's what it's designed to do. I mean, that's what it does. But, so I had that, I had my mom, and coming from my, you know, my mom having it. And I'm not good with alcohol.

• 1:37:24Speaker 03

  I'm just like, you know, I think I can jump over the building and, you know, I'm just always doing, I just, nothing ever good came out of anything drinking, right? All the worst things I've ever done. It says it right on the bottle, impair judgment and motor skill. Like, it's not, it's so, uh, but that was a discipline thing, right? That was a thing at a certain point. My mom said something to me that, that really stuck with me. That really was one of the contributing things that helped me a lot. Which was if you can't be true to yourself, you can't be true to anyone else. And so I thought, and I would drink and then not drink and be like, and then drink and be like, oh, I can stop any time. And then I'd stop for a couple of weeks, then start again. So I'd always had that emotional roller coaster of, I got control of it, but I don't have control of it.

• 1:38:08Speaker 03

  And then I have the guilt associated with it. And I'd drink and wake up at five and train like an animal and justify my drinking. Cause then I could be like, hey, cool, man, I can, I can, I'm handling it. This doesn't touch me. I'm doing my work. I'm, I can drink and train every day. And a lot of it was guilt training. You know, cause I'm training, cause I'm trying to make up for the fact that I'm, feel shady inside that I don't have the discipline to do that. And, uh, and so eventually, and, and I, and it was gonna contribute to, it was contributing to, to hurting my relationship with, with Gabby. Who I, who I love and who, that's the last thing I would, I would want. And it was also, it was gonna, it was starting to, like, the girls were gonna start being exposed to it. They're really young.

• 1:38:53Speaker 03

  My, I mean, my youngest, uh, my middle one was, was young. And, and so I'm like, you know what? I just don't want them a bunch of reasons, right? I just went, but. It was a discipline thing. And so I just wanted, I wanted to prove to myself that I had the discipline and I didn't have AA. I didn't have any reinforcement, no help, no nothing, just cold turkey. Boom, start, done, finished, 16 years. I haven't, and I have no desire, no interest. And what I really came to learn about it was that it really was a sugar addiction.

• 1:39:30Shawn Ryan?

  You're, you're, you're coming up on 16 years.

• 1:39:32Speaker 03

  Something like that, 16, 17, yeah.

• 1:39:34Shawn Ryan?

  That's congratulations. I'm almost two years in. Love it. Wish I would have done this a long time ago.

• 1:39:41Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:39:42Shawn Ryan?

  Did you have a specific, I mean, what was it that triggered it? I, I read into some of your story, I was planning on covering this later in the interview. I know that Gabby, I believe, said that you turned into Larry.

• 1:39:55Speaker 03

  Larry, yeah.

• 1:39:57Shawn Ryan?

  What are some of the things that were happening?

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  I just, you know, I, I would, uh, well, it's firewater for me. I don't know if I got some kind of wild native something, blood or something, but it would definitely, it would definitely like, I just wasn't a good, I would go and, you know, drive cars fast and jump off, you just do critical stuff. I always thought, I go, I can leap buildings in a single bound. Like, that was my, that's what it does to me. Like, it turns on that part of my, my brain of just like a, like a, like a wild animal. I turn into a wild animal and, uh, which I'm already, I think naturally a little already going that direction. I don't need any support. I don't need any boost. I don't need anything.

• 1:40:41Shawn Ryan?

  No enhancement.

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  No, no enhancement. And so, uh, you know, and, and it was just, it would never, it just, it just, it was, it's not, it's just not, nothing good's coming out of it. You know, I think one night I came back and I had, I always wanted to prove, right, that I could handle. So it's like, oh, yeah, I can get, I can drink three bottles of wine and drive my truck home and something. I think I banged a pole and didn't nothing, didn't set the airbag, but sheared the pole off. And then it was like the next day the pole was hanging. I came to the bottom of the hill and I looked at the pole and I thought, hmm. Okay, got lucky on that one. Like I was, I probably was going four, but I had a, you know,

• 1:41:24Speaker 03

  giant truck with a huge bumper and just whatever. Again, being looked after, you know, being fortunate, getting away. You know, it's interesting because I, you know, we talk about, you see like, especially in surfing, right? And we see people doing, you see people can doing certain things and you're kind of like, like, like the angels are busy protecting them.

• 1:41:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:52Speaker 03

  So you better have your, because they're not, there's none available for you because they're busy. Because when you watch the way the humans are conducting themselves, every angel available is busy. So you better, if you have the fortitude to be able to keep your stuff and be aware and keep yourself good, you better do that. So, you know, I think there was a culmination of a bunch of incidences, behavior, relationship stuff, health, whatever, just all those things over time. It was just like, okay, I'm good. Like, I'm, like, I'm, and I'm good to the point where I'm going to be good, good. And, uh, and not just dabble good. But that's why I said the question really is, is you, do

• 1:42:35Speaker 03

  you want to? Like, really want to? Because people go, yeah, they want to, but they kind of say it out of the side of their face. Yeah, I want to stop it.

• 1:42:43Shawn Ryan?

  So there wasn't, there wasn't necessarily a specific incident or an ultimatum or anything like that? Interesting. With, with, with, what triggered mine was, we'd spoken about this, but I did a, I did a psychedelic therapy for, for traumatic brain injury and post-traumatic stress. And, and I never thought I, I used, I had steps. There was a time when it was, I would wake up and it was vodka mini bottles all day long. And then, and then at nighttime, I would just crack open a fifth and down a fifth or two. And then I got away from that

• 1:43:24Shawn Ryan?

  and I got into wine and it was, yeah, two, three bottles a night. And then I did this, this, this, this therapy. And when I came out of it, I just, it was like I had my, it was like my body had an epiphany that was, was. The shit's poison. Quit doing it. And I have not had another drop since.

• 1:43:47Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 1:43:48Shawn Ryan?

  And that, yeah, so, so there wasn't any specific.

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I, I, I, well, the potential that it was gonna ruin my relationship. That, and that was getting, it was getting to the point where it was gonna be like any, at any minute, it was gonna be, you know, Gabby would walk out. And so that, or I would hurt myself. Something, just something, I just, I felt like there was that critical mass. Like enough things had happened and there was an accumulation that I was at this position where there was gonna, that, that, it was, it wasn't gonna be, it was gonna just be one straw that broke the camel's back. You know, it was piled up and it was ready to any, and I didn't know which one it was gonna be.

• 1:44:34Speaker 03

  And I think that was it. I think that the, the, the, the thought of, of the relationship or something bad happening with me or one of my kids or just something, I just was like, okay, I gotta, this is, this is, this is, I don't have any kind of control over this. This is not, I don't, I'm, I'm, it's out of control and, and, and.

• 1:44:58Shawn Ryan?

  How long was that going on for?

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  You know, years, years, like, like, and it, it, you know, ebb and flow, but it was, it was, it was ramping up. I could feel, I mean, I, it was definitely, it was definitely ramping up and, you know, and I think it was connected to, obviously it's always connected to something that you're suppressing, you're, you're, you're, I mean, maybe the responsibility of, you know, actually, you know, being a dad and being a husband and, you know, and just facing sobriety or whatever it is. I don't, who knows, who knows, but somewhere, something was getting suppressed. Something was getting, was getting, you know, held down and, and then, and then.

• 1:45:42Speaker 03

  So I went into it and I just, like I said, stopped and then I started just getting crazy sugar stuff and I realized that it was just, it was also the, and I have a thing with sugar, like that, like about it being like some, having some sort of, and it was sugar, it's a sugar addiction. It's the highest level. When you look at alcohol and you think about what is liquid sugar, it just goes right into your bloodstream. It takes, the absorption is, you know, and then like having a mom that, that, that, you know, that was an alcoholic, being around people, watching, as soon as I stopped and I started watching people's transformation, I was like, whoa, wow, it's amazing. Like you, and when you're doing it, you don't even know.

• 1:46:27Speaker 03

  You don't even realize that you're just what you

• 1:46:31Shawn Ryan?

  Turn into.

• 1:46:34Speaker 03

  I'm like, whoa, I can't imagine what, cause I could see people doing it that I thought they don't even turn into anything and I know I'm turning into something. My speech is crazy. I'm going, I go, wow, that was a transformation and they don't even transform. Imagine what I was doing. And then, and then, and then it just, you know, and for the, the beginning, I would be like, I'd wake up and had a dream that I had a sip of something and I'd be all freaked out and mad about it and everything, but it became a real challenge. Like I made it a real like disciplined thing. And, and what I also did was I just took a Pellegrino bottle and removed the wine bottle and put the Pellegrino bottle. Every time I want to drink, I just drink, drink the Pellegrino.

• 1:47:10Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 1:47:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:12Shawn Ryan?

  That's what I do. I'm not shitting you. That's exactly what I do.

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  No, of course. Cause it, cause a big piece of it is that.

• 1:47:18Shawn Ryan?

  Makes you feel like you have something.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  Well, it's a ritual because a part of it is just the whole symbolic thing. There's a symbolic process to the thing. Open the bottle, get the thing, pour the thing, drink the, there's like a, there's a whole ritual to it, which I think helps you deal with this. So yeah, I just did a.

• 1:47:34Speaker 03

  You know, replacement. And like I said, fifteen, and I, and now I don't even, it's like, I just, I'm like, we, I don't even, it's not even in my.

• 1:47:42Shawn Ryan?

  Don't even think about it.

• 1:47:43Speaker 03

  Not even close.

• 1:47:44Shawn Ryan?

  It's not even, it's no effort to stay off.

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  Zero.

• 1:47:47Shawn Ryan?

  How fast did it take, or I guess, maybe it wasn't fast. How much time had passed before you saw improvement by giving up the bottle in your life? Family, business?

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  Pretty, pretty immediately, pretty immedi-, like already you're getting benefits right away. Like, it's, you're getting little pieces of hope. You just get a little hope, then you hold on to that hope, and then you get a little, another little hope. Pretty soon you start piling up here, and then, yeah, it happens, it, it, I felt like it happened pretty quickly. A lot of it was just the, the, the benefits of respecting yourself. You know, the benefits of, of your discipline, like. Okay, yeah, I did, like, two weeks, three weeks, a month, two months, three months, four months, pretty soon. You know, you're, I mean, now I don't even, it's not even part of the thing, and I, I only bring it up

• 1:48:40Speaker 03

  because it's like, oh, we're talking about it or something, but, but for, definitely for the first couple of years, you're like, you know, you're counting them, you're like, and you're, you're, you're, the reward is that you, like my mom said, you know, you, you, you are, you become, you respect yourself. You, you have, you're like, okay, I got some, I have control over this thing that I said, always said I did, but I never did. But now I do. And that feels pretty amazing, that's a pretty, and you, you start to, to build off of that. But that's, that's the, you know, that was my, you gotta use those little moments of, you know, those little pieces, whatever they, they become, and then, and then all of a sudden, it's like you're, the, the girls are never around it, they, we don't drink at our house, they'd never see it,

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  so it's not just socially acceptable, you know, like, like it is everywhere. Like, it's just so abundant, everywhere you go, you see it everywhere, you're like, it's just everywhere. It's like, every, it's all, it's all okay, and it's like, it's not okay, it's like.

• 1:49:39Shawn Ryan?

  How, how long did it take you to realize?

• 1:49:45Shawn Ryan?

  How fast did you see improvement with your relationship within the family? With Gabby, with your daughters, with people that are close to you? Did you see improvement by putting the bottle down immediately?

• 1:50:01Speaker 03

  I saw incremental improvement as I went. I just would see it incrementally, like you're seeing it within a month or within a couple of weeks already. Within a month, I mean, part of it is all of a sudden, all this time you get. You don't realize how much time, how much time to go get the bottle, open the bottle, drink the bottle, it's the thing. This is time. Like you just don't, like you don't, you start to realize, wow, there's a lot of, it's like when you do fast, when you fast, you realize how much time you spend eating and thinking about food and getting the food and making the food and eating, you know, it's like, and so drinking's the same way. The time, the time, you're all of a sudden like, it's like you're all of a sudden in the evening,

• 1:50:43Speaker 03

  you're not distracted, you're not drinking, you're not also, I mean, I think one of the things I noticed, or should I say, a difficult part of the process was my kind of loss of friends. Like a loss of friends. Like I had a group of friends that, that

• 1:51:00Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, I know where you're going with this.

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  That I lost, that I just all of a sudden, I just, but our common thing was that we were all hanging together drinking. And then all of a sudden, it was like, and then I'm a reminder to them that they're drinking. So then they don't want to be around me. And then they're telling you, hey, you used to be fun, you used to be so great. You were so awesome when you were drunk. And I was like, or when you were drinking or whatever it was. And I'm like, was I?

• 1:51:30Speaker 03

  And if you think I was because of that, then obviously you don't have my back, first of all. And or maybe you just say, you're saying that because you're still drinking and I'm not. So I'm like a, you know, a beak, I'm like a mirror to you there. You don't like, oh yeah, I don't want to. You were so much better when you were drinking. You mean, you think you're better when you're drinking or something. So there was that transition that I had that was a little, and even once in a while, I'm like, ah, how come I, it's weird that I don't have the relationship with those guys that I had such relation, I had such a long-term relationship with, but it was the foundation of it was, you know, having cocktails in the afternoon or, you know what I mean? And I was pretty like, my drinking was Drink till it's dinner, eat, go to sleep. So I I'm like, but I would start like I would

• 1:52:14Speaker 03

  train all day so that I was really that that first couple glasses was really effective. Like you're really, you're depleted, your body's hungry, and you drink a glass and you're just instantaneously buzzed. Go till, you know, dinner, then drink, then eat dinner and go to sleep. Cause I never, I think it's been my blessing, but I've always sleeping, sleeping is a big thing. So I don't, I don't like to compromise at any cost, pretty much unless you really get wound up and then you're gonna go, you know, in the moonlight and see how far you can jump your BMW in the pineapple fields or something.

• 1:52:55Shawn Ryan?

  How far did it go?

• 1:52:56Speaker 03

  They go far. You'd be surprised. It's amazing, actually. Good suspension.

• 1:53:00Shawn Ryan?

  Right on, right on, right on. But, um, well, there, let's take a, let's take a quick break.

• 1:53:06Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:53:07Shawn Ryan?

  And when we come back, I'd like to pick up on, um, how faith played a role in, in your family dynamic.

• 1:53:15Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 1:53:16Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect.

• 1:53:19Shawn Ryan?

  I want to tell you about this business venture I've been on for about the past seven, eight months, and it's finally come to fruition. I've been hell bent on finding the cleanest functional mushroom supplement on the planet. And that all kind of stemmed from the psychedelic treatment I did, came out of it, got a ton of benefits, haven't had a drop of alcohol in almost two years. I'm more in the moment with my family. And that led me down researching the benefits of just everyday functional mushrooms. And I started taking some supplements. I found some coffee replacements. I even repped a brand. And, you know, it got to

• 1:53:59Shawn Ryan?

  the point where I just wanted the finest ingredients available, no matter where they come from. And it, it, it got to this point where I was just gonna start my own brand. And so we started going to trade shows and, and looking for the finest ingredients. And in doing that, I ran into this guy, maybe you've heard of him. His name's Laird Hamilton, and his wife Gabby Reese, and they have an entire line of supplements with all the finest ingredients. And we got to talking. Turns out.

• 1:54:35Shawn Ryan?

  They have the perfect functional mushroom supplement. It's actually called Performance Mushrooms. And this has everything. It's USDA organic. It's got chaga, cordyceps, lion's mane, miyataki. This stuff is amazing for energy balance, for cognition. Look, just being honest, I see a lot of people taking care of their bodies. I do not see a lot of people taking care of their brain. This is the product, guys. And so, we got to talking and our values seemed very aligned. We're both into the functional mushrooms.

• 1:55:17Shawn Ryan?

  And after a lot of back and forth, I am now a shareholder in the company.

• 1:55:26Shawn Ryan?

  I have a small amount of ownership and I'm just, look, I'm just really proud to be repping and be a part of the company that's making the best functional mushroom supplement on the planet. You can get this stuff at layered superfoods.com. You can use the promo code SRS. That'll get you 20% off these Performance Mushrooms or anything in the store. They got a ton of good stuff. Once again, that's layered superfoods.com. Use the promo code SRS. That gets you 20% off. You guys are gonna love this stuff. I guarantee it.

• 1:56:08Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave the Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show.

• 1:56:29Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Larry, we're back from the break. We're going to talk about how faith, or how faith has helped you with your family dynamic. And so I'll open it up on this. I'll let you process what I just said and think about it while I'm talking. But you know, I'm new to, relatively new to Christianity. And I kind of grew up Catholic. The minute I left home, I never looked back. And maybe stepped in a church two or three times since eighteen to forty.

• 1:57:07Shawn Ryan?

  And then recently, I just got back into it, just looking for some truth with everything going on in the world. And I have a Bible study with just a very few families at my house. And one of the families is the, my friend Todd, he's a pastor. And he had a great way of explaining things. And he says, "The Word, the Bible, Christianity, whatever you want to call it, it's like a plumb line." And so a plumb line is how you tell if something's straight.

• 1:57:46Shawn Ryan?

  And he says, "The Word is a perfect reference to let you know if you're steering too far off course." And then you come back, you know, check yourself, get into it a little bit, and then start veering off back to the plumb line, so you don't get too crooked. And so that was, for me, a really good explanation on what it is, how to use it. And so I'll turn it over to you here.

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  So my mom was raised strict Catholic. So like nuns with rulers and slap the hand. And so...

• 1:58:34Speaker 03

  She didn't push anything on us as kids. Like, we weren't, we, we, uh, we weren't, like, there was no church, there was no, there was no, there was no, like, because she had had such a, you know, kind of a ruler-edged beating.

• 1:58:54Shawn Ryan?

  Drove her out of it.

• 1:58:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, uh, and she felt that it was something for us to discover on our own, that, that we would, we would, that we, that we would, you know, it was up to us, that we would, we would discover it. And, you know, mine, uh, my, like, first, uh, saturation or intimate thing, I, I mean, you know, when you grow up on Kauai, uh, and when you grow up in the ocean,

• 1:59:29Speaker 03

  you're a little, uh, how would I say it's too elaborate, too amazing. Creation is too amazing to avoid not believing in something. I just think that you just can't get away from being in those worlds, the beauty of nature and the power of nature and all those, those, uh, and the, you know, the scariness of nature and the, and just all the things that, that are in it, make you, it's impossible unless you're blind or just not, not observing to not have, to not be at least open to that

• 2:00:12Speaker 03

  there is a grand architect, there is a, there is a, there's a plan. So I think I already had that foundation, right? Being raised in such a beautiful place and, and such a scary ocean and such a, you know, creatures and big creatures in the ocean and just all the, all the things that, that happen. Uh, and then I got, uh, I got born again. I became a born-again Christian and, and started to, uh, uh, read, read the Bible.

• 2:00:39Shawn Ryan?

  Was there, was there anything that triggered that specifically?

• 2:00:44Speaker 03

  I mean, I think it was searching that I that I was I had I was looking. It might have been a girl. Could have been a girl that that that a girl that was something about her and then I threw her. And a couple of friends. There was this curiosity to to that I that I was something was that I was lacking. I just had an interest in. I had an innate draw to it like you do to fear. Like you maybe you have an you have a. You have a, you know, it's like, I tell people, people like scary movies. You know, because they they're missing fear in their life because normally we were scared a lot and we have like a. You know, like you have a space in your stomach for dessert, no matter how much you eat.

• 2:01:26Speaker 03

  You know, you have a space. You need fear in your body. Well, there's a space for belief. And and the Lord in your body. All of us have it and it's just. You know, what what are you filling it with or is it empty? Is there your? So I had that space that that that I was looking for, that empty space that I needed to put. To put some answers to, to put some understanding to. How old are you at this point? Uh, probably eighteen. Okay. Nineteen nineteen eighteen nineteen. Okay. Like early right then, like eighteen nineteen, maybe twenty. Um, just in that in that uh, that range and then.

• 2:02:05Speaker 03

  And I'd seen, I mean, I'd been around Seventh Day Adventist. I'd been around other kinds of. You know, I know some friends are Mormons. I mean, I've been around some different things, but um, but. Got into it like got into the Bible and started to to uh.

• 2:02:23Speaker 03

  To really like. The teachings, the the parables, they just rang in my heart. They were truth. It was truth. Um, truth ring rang in me. I was like, just that's truth, that's truth, that's truth, that's truth, that's truth. Um, really.

• 2:02:40Speaker 03

  Felt attracted to that kind of learning, you know, that that learning that that the parables are such a way to it just fit in my it's the way my brain works. I think that's why they're like that. That's why they teach in parables because they just those it's to to make it. It's just the easiest way we learn. It's how we understand. And so those and then the tools just every every every it's like a tool case. It's like tools for your for your for your life, like tools to, you know, I I would see the rewards of that, right? So I I would see the rewards of of walking when I was using the plum line, you know, I would see the rewards

• 2:03:24Speaker 03

  of when I was on the line. And I would see the the the lack of rewards or the, you know, the the side effects of not being on the line. And then, uh, and for a long time, I was like, well, the I spent a lot of time time reading the Bible and and only and it was like I the only book I ever had, I think I read I might have read it twice. Um, read it like read the thing and read it and read it. It was like the I go I tell people I go, there's only one book even worth reading. And that's this this this book right here. Uh, and so, yeah, that was in and, uh,

• 2:04:01Speaker 03

  you know, Gabby has has faith as well. Uh, and and that's I think that's one of the that's absolutely, I mean, your values are connected to your faith, your faith is what what I mean, if you don't have similar values, which is your similar faith, it's hard to make anything work in a relationship, I think, for sure. But I just know in my own personal life that that that those tools, uh,

• 2:04:27Speaker 03

  you know, I I said this before, I go, if you just looked at the commandments and you said, okay, I'm just gonna look at these commandments and I'm gonna try to walk, walk and do these things right there. It's in your best interest. Like, it's in your best interest that you will have a better life. Like, just like, let's not say where we go, what we do, we just go immediate, let's go present day, we're in it right now, we do it, the we use these parables, we learn from these lessons.

• 2:04:54Speaker 03

  The more you do it and the more you you you you walk the line, you know, the better your life can be. It just it just is. It just it just it just will be in, you know, I I I spent, I've spent time participating in a lot of church, in church stuff. Um, I felt at times the hypocrisy that that was in it, which drove me away from that that structure of it. And I've, you know, and I and I think what I've really tried to do in my my own personal life is just live by it. Like, never mind professing, conduct, conduct, you know, it's about the conduct. It's about, at the end of the day,

• 2:05:37Speaker 03

  you can profess all you want, you know, but if you're, you know, don't go, don't go repent on Sunday and then live like crap all all week long. It's like, live like you don't need to repent. Like, like, live all week long so you don't have to go repent on Sunday. But, uh, but yeah, the the the teachings, I mean, I love, you know, when I look at, well, first of all, when you like, my, one of my, my favorite passage of the whole book, um, and will always be is is 1 Corinthians 13, just because of the definition of love, you know, hope, faith, belief, and love. Love is the greatest, right? So that doesn't matter if you had,

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  you could have the faith to move a mountain, but you didn't have love, you'd be nothing.

• 2:06:21Speaker 03

  And so all this stuff that love is the king and and when you, when you, uh, and it's also not easy to do, right? It's it's like, these are, these are, these are challenges put before us. It's a little bit like looking at the ideal fam or looking at a whole family and saying, hey, I want to have a whole family. Well, that's the, that's the, that's the, you're striving towards that, right? So the the I look at the, I look at that, uh, that book as a manual for life, like, that's a, that's a manual for life. And the truth is in it, right? And the truth is in a lot of places. Again, it's, you know, we spoke about being a hunter,

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  but the truth is in a lot of places. But it's, the truth is in all over that book. Like, you want to see truth, you open those things, you're like, truth, truth, truth. And that, that your plum line, is that your tool that you can use to help you in this, in, in? In everything. I don't know. I just don't, I don't see where there's ever,

• 2:07:25Speaker 03

  you know, judge not that you not be judged. I mean, just there just no end to the, to the, to the, you know, to the, to the parables, to the, to the teachings that, I mean, it just, it just rang in my heart. And I think that that's the, I know that that's been,

• 2:07:46Speaker 03

  and it's an ongoing thing.

• 2:07:48Shawn Ryan?

  It's a, it's, it's, it appears to me, and I'm not through at all. So appears to me it's a roadmap on how to live, you know, and

• 2:07:58Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:07:58Shawn Ryan?

  And no matter whether you believe in it or whether you don't, it will make you a better person.

• 2:08:06Speaker 03

  No doubt. Without a doubt. There's no, there's no, that's what I'm saying. For me, I go even, you don't need to believe in it, but will it make your life a better life? Yes. Like it's writ, it's written, it's like you said, it's the roadmap to have, to have a better life. Like when you're here, it's, it's, it's trying to allow you to miss a lot of hazards. It's like, it's showing you, okay, here's the hazards. Now, if you just go like this, and you go like that, and you go like that, you're gonna miss the hazards. You're gonna miss the hazards. Like, and so, I don't know how, I don't know in which situation that can be bad. I don't know in which situation that, that you

• 2:08:46Speaker 03

  wouldn't want to do that. Like, I just don't, I, for me, I don't, I would never understand when you wouldn't want to miss the hazards, or why would you live, why wouldn't you want to live in a way that would allow you to, to avoid some suffering and heartache and, and the plagues and the curses and all the stuff that it's trying to help you avoid. Like, why wouldn't you want, it seemed like, I mean, some of it's unavoidable. It's like, you know, I mean, there's certain things that you just can't avoid. It's like, you, certain situations, you just cannot avoid. So when you can avoid things, probably a good idea to avoid. Like, I'm all about avoiding, let's avoid, because sometimes you're not gonna avoid. And you're gonna be just like, here I am, and now deal with it.

• 2:09:30Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Yeah. Let's, um, thank you for diving into that. I appreciate that. Um, let's dive in. You've been, you've had a successful marriage 26 years.

• 2:09:41Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:09:42Shawn Ryan?

  You've been with Gabby. How did you guys meet?

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  She met, we met on a TV show. A TV, what TV show? Uh, it was called The Extremist and it was a show that she was hosting and she would,

• 2:09:57Speaker 03

  she would interview people that were doing all kinds of different radical things. It used to be called MTV Sports and it turned into The Extremist where she would interview a skydiver and then go skydiving, then she'd interview a shark diver and go shark diving. She would do a drag racer and ride drive dragsters and she did about sixty or seventy shows and I was one of the shows at the end she had already, and I was, I was already married at the time, actually, and so, and I was not, I wasn't in a very good place in my, in my relationship and, and so the last thing I was ever looking for was to

• 2:10:39Speaker 03

  be with anyone else. I wasn't, I was, that was the furthest thing from my mind and, and especially given my, and part of the reason why I was married to begin with was, had to do with my, my faith, that I was not wanting to live, you know, in sin and so I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get married to do the right, you know, just, it was, it was some of those beliefs that, that I was living by and so I was like, okay, I'm, and then I was in a position that wasn't, it wasn't great and so, which, so then when I meet her, the last thing I'm even thinking about is like, I'm just like, oh, here we go, we got some bimbo, pretty girl that's gonna ask me some stupid questions, great,

• 2:11:22Speaker 03

  and I was just focused on riding giant waves and, you know, try not to die and then dealing with, you know, a crazy person that I was trying not to live with and so, and so, you know, so she, she, uh...

• 2:11:39Speaker 03

  We had an interview and, uh, and I, I describe it like a love at first conversation cause after the, the conversation we had, I, I think I was hit by a giant love bolt. You know, like a lightning bolt hit me and I was just like, what even, I don't even know what happened. I was just completely like broadsided, um, and, and I ended up living with Yavi eight days later. And, and, and then we were together, we've been together since.

• 2:12:10Shawn Ryan?

  What, so you guys hit it off immediately?

• 2:12:14Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:12:15Shawn Ryan?

  It sounds like you, you thought she was a pretty

• 2:12:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. And from what I understand, she actually thought the same about you initially.

• 2:12:25Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 2:12:25Shawn Ryan?

  So what, what was the conversation? What was the interview? What hit you?

• 2:12:30Speaker 03

  Just her intelligence, just the way her, the way her mind was working and what she was, uh, just her, her sincerity, her curiosity, her, her real, um, she was smart. She was, and I'm, I had a smart mom, so I know what smart is. You know, I don't need, doesn't take me long to know what smart is and she was smart. I'm like, she's, this is a very smart person and, and, uh, and again, it was, it was still, you know, it was just, it was out of our hand, it was out of our hands. It was, it was, it was one of those things that you just, you're going along down a road and all of a sudden it's just a hard right and you just, you just didn't even have the wheel.

• 2:13:15Speaker 03

  The wheel just was like, okay, now I'm going down this other road like, and so that was, and it wasn't just so uncomplicated to be together. I mean, I moved to California and then she was coming back with me and I was dealing with, you know, having, uh, being married and trying to, you know, work that out. And I had a daughter and I, so I was, it was, it was not a, it was not a simple, it wasn't. If there was any, uh, opportunity to have it be kind of not, not convenient, you know, there, it would, it would, we could have be, I mean, it was at any second, we would have been justified. Oh yeah, I can't, we can't do that cause that's just not gonna happen. But it wasn't, we didn't have any of that. That was just, it was, it was, uh,

• 2:13:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it was, you know.

• 2:14:02Shawn Ryan?

  It was a complicated relationship.

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  Divine, divine.

• 2:14:06Shawn Ryan?

  Could have been compromised very easily.

• 2:14:08Speaker 03

  At any second, at any second, there was, you know, and opportunities along the way too, that we, that we, that we, that we work at, you know, that we, and, and I mean, listen, I'm, I'm so blessed that she can put up with me. Like, I'm just, I'm hard to put up with my, I barely live with myself, and she can somehow survive it. I, I'm thankful that she just doesn't, you know, respond to every single thing I do and say, because if she did, that we, we probably would, you know, I'd be alone.

• 2:14:40Shawn Ryan?

  So eight days, so you guys meet, you do a TV interview, eight days later.

• 2:14:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I take her surfing, I took her surfing. That was probably the part that really sent it over the edge, because we were surfing together, and that was kind of intimate, which, which wasn't, it wasn't meant to be intimate. It wasn't, it wasn't like I was like, the last thing in my brain, and, and, and obviously the kind of woman, if there was, if there was any, any, and when I know, as I know her now, I mean,

• 2:15:08Speaker 03

  there, the fact that, that if I had any little, like, weird, like, if I was at all like, hey, babe, where are you going? What are you doing? Like, if there was just a scent of that, which I don't have, and, and, I mean, I, I don't know how she

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  understood me as, maybe as better than I understand me, like, maybe she knew, she, she knew things about me that I didn't know about myself, maybe in some ways. I have a feeling like my, my, I mean, I don't know about my loyalty, but my, you know, my, my desire to have a family and be together and all that kind of stuff, like, I think she saw that stuff, like, I think only like a woman can. I think that, that I think their ability to, to, to, to know us.

• 2:16:07Speaker 03

  In a way, uh, is far beyond our capacity. We, we know us for our kind of our more immediate things, but we don't really know ourselves like, like they do. Uh, I think it's part of, uh, it's, it's in the interest of the species. Like we, we, we need to, to survive. We need, they need to know that, you know, what, what we in, in when things are, you know, optimum, when people are clear in thinking, but, but we, uh, we were in some ways I was like, uh, you know, it was, it was like, uh, I was, I was in a trance, like I was in a, and her friends are like, how, what do you mean? What? Huh?

• 2:16:49Speaker 03

  What? Like, like they just, it, it, it didn't, it didn't all, it didn't, it made sense and it didn't make, make sense, but it was definitely, you know, when she tells the story about her friends that said, oh, you're doing a story on that guy. And they're like, oh, Miss, Mrs. Hamilton. And she just always be quiet. He's, you know, whatever. And just like they had the, there was all this other, there was all these things that, that went on. Um.

• 2:17:12Shawn Ryan?

  External influences?

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:14Shawn Ryan?

  What, um, eight days, eight days to move in together. And you, you left?

• 2:17:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:21Shawn Ryan?

  Your wife?

• 2:17:21Speaker 03

  I was living in a, I was living in a warehouse next, on my property next to the, my house. So I wasn't

• 2:17:27Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:17:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:28Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:17:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. But yes, eight days later, I was married and I moved.

• 2:17:33Shawn Ryan?

  What was that, Comber? Whose idea was it?

• 2:17:37Speaker 03

  Well, it was the sole way to be together.

• 2:17:39Shawn Ryan?

  Really? So it was mutual. It was just, I'm coming out and I'm moving in.

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:44Shawn Ryan?

  And that was it?

• 2:17:45Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 2:17:46Shawn Ryan?

  How long did you guys date before you got married?

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  Couple of years, cause that's how long it took to get out of the other one.

• 2:17:57Shawn Ryan?

  Right on, right on.

• 2:17:58Speaker 03

  And she was awesome from the beginning with my daughter. She just took her in like, like no problem, like made her, loved on her and made her part of the family.

• 2:18:09Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:18:10Speaker 03

  Instantly. Oh yeah. Instant, like not even like in a, in a, in a. In a way that you, in a way that you would make you be like, yeah, that's, that's right. That's why I'm with her, kind of thing, you know? Like acted in a way that, that you didn't, that you were like, oh yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's why.

• 2:18:31Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think, do you think your oldest daughter felt any type of resentment or for you leaving and going?

• 2:18:40Speaker 03

  You know, if she did, it was, it was, it was probably connected more to outside influences than it was her own personal experience. So I, maybe it was, could have been some, you know, programming.

• 2:18:56Shawn Ryan?

  So it didn't, it didn't, it didn't, it did not affect your relationship with your daughter and, and, in a, in a negative, in a negative way?

• 2:19:07Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:19:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that's great to hear.

• 2:19:09Speaker 03

  But she was, but she was also very young. Like baby, she was a baby. So for her, she didn't even know, she didn't even know the, the, uh, she didn't even know, like, she really never knew it. She only was more, like I said, if there was anything that influenced it, I mean, her, you know, my daughter, my oldest, my oldest daughter's relationship with Gabby is, is amazing. Like they have an amazing, amazing, almost so amazing that it can be confusing. Because so, society would be like, that, you know, that's your such and such, and that's your, you know what I mean? Like society puts stuff on us, but left to our own thing, we would only go by experiences. And again, the amount of time and the amount of love and the amount of effort that was put into that relationship

• 2:19:52Speaker 03

  has made, has, has created something that you just can't, all the so- social pressures and constructs in the world can't erase that stuff. So I, I, back to that, it's back to the time and the effort put in, the amount of love and the amount of, amount of nurture. I mean, it's, it, it, even when there is at times that some outside influences, it still can't, you can't, when you get into the thing, it's still that, has that core, that core that you built. You just, you built that, you put the time in. It's like, you don't, and you don't, you, that stuff is, can handle some pretty good rocks. It can handle some, you know,

• 2:20:33Speaker 03

  it can handle some shaking when you, when you put that, again, the time and the effort into, into the love is, it's, you know, I mean, it's.

• 2:20:43Shawn Ryan?

  Man, what a great example, you know, great example of a dad, great example of a husband, great example of, of, of changing the trajectory of your, of your lineage, you know, breaking the generational trauma. I mean, you're just a really good example for, for, for people to look at. Thank you.

• 2:21:03Speaker 03

  Well, I, I think it's ongoing. If I get to be, it's only, I'm getting to be, I'm just getting to be, I'm, and I, and it's, and again, back to responsibility, you know, back to that, that, I mean, listen, what is it, what does the good book say, you know, let he without sin cast the first stone. Look around, no one can throw anything. So at the end of the day, we're all, we're all in the same boat, you know, the thing is, is we always look over and we think, oh yeah, it's better over there. And then you get over there and we have a saying, it's all grass. You get across the fence, you're over there, you're like, oh, here we are again, back in the grass, cutting the grass. It's like, it's the same grass. It's like, no, no, it's better over there. And you go over there and you're like, oh, no, I'm back in the grass. It's like, we're, it's not, we think it's, we think it's so much better, but everything has its,

• 2:21:47Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, we're all in, my friend has a saying, we're all in the same boat. We're on earth, we're humans, you know, and I think, cause it's like even in my upbringing, when somebody says to me, they go, hey, you know, uh, where are you from? And I go, earth, earth, I'm a human from earth. And then if you're something different, then we have a long conversation. Let's, then we should sit down and talk. Then we're, you know, like if you're not from earth and you're not a human, we need to really like, I can't wait to hear a lot about this story, but if, other than that, let's get past that stuff. Cause we're so caught up in the, I'm here and I'm this, and I'm from here and I'm that. And that's, this is just all division stuff. This is all, keeps us all away.

• 2:22:28Speaker 03

  When you really ding down, you, I think we all really want the same thing. Like we want peace, we want happiness, we want thing, like we want, that's what we want. Like, okay, there's a few people that are maybe a little bit chemically off and they ought to maybe, you know, work out, eat some good food and get some sleep, but like, we really want the same things. We, we, we do, when we're in, when we're of sound mind and spirit, when we, you know, I have to clarify that because there's some, obviously there's some demonic forces in the planet. So when you're... Possessed, that's a different story. I'm just saying, but when, you know, there's, there's the majority of us who are, you know, we're people, we're, we, we want the, the, basically

• 2:23:09Speaker 03

  the same things that, you know, that it's like, and I like to get by that because I think because of my upbringing and I, and I think the separate, you know, hey, where are you from? Oh, I'm from over here. I mean, we used to have crazy stuff. Like if you were from the other side of the island, you were from someplace else. Or what side are you? I'm from the west side. Oh, you're from the west side. What are you doing over here? This is the north side. Well, I'm from the east side. Oh, you're on the east side. Uh, what about the west side? Oh, the south side. It's like you have the south side, the east side, west side. And you're all like, acting like you're from a different place. And it's an island this big. You're like, no, you're from the same island. You know, and the earth's a little bit like the same thing. Like you're from the earth. Like, but yeah. Well, and then you get belief in there too. And, you know, that just really, again, man's, you

• 2:23:52Speaker 03

  know, another one of man's construct. At least the good book is, is got the, the wisdom of, of, of the truth, right? Because the truth isn't different. You know, lately you hear people talk about truth being like, there's different truths. No, there's no different truths. There's one truth. If anything, if there's differentiation, then these are, these aren't the truth. The truth is only one truth. It's like, it's like gravity, you fall, you land, like east, west, south, north. Okay. Truth. The moon, the sun, truth. Okay. You know, love, truth. Okay. Peace, truth. Okay. You know, loyalty, truth. Okay. You know, it's like, these are truths. Like, it's not like, there's not a different kind

• 2:24:36Speaker 03

  of loyalty. There's not like one loyalty here. And then this is another different loyalty over here. No, there's one kind of loyalty. And I can, there's a certain thing that makes that what it is. There's one kind of love. There's a certain thing that makes that what it is. There's certain, I mean, and I, this, all the words in such a, I don't know, I think that we're playing with definitions and stuff and that just, that leads us, that's just confusion. Again, it's back to, you know, creating complication to disguise imperfection.

• 2:25:04Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Divide and conquer.

• 2:25:06Speaker 03

  Well, and accountability too, getting people to, to actually have to do the work. You gotta do the work. People gotta do the, I mean, it's. You know, and I've been fortunate to be able to ride a surfboard. Like, that's a, what a crazy blessing that is. I mean, I'm like, you know, like, that's a, that's a, how does that even possible?

• 2:25:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:28Speaker 03

  So.

• 2:25:29Shawn Ryan?

  So I want to move into your surfing career. Before I do, I got two pieces of advice I'd like to get from you for the audience. One is, what advice do you have for, for men to be a good husband?

• 2:25:45Speaker 03

  For a man to be, respect your wife.

• 2:25:48Shawn Ryan?

  Respect your wife.

• 2:25:49Speaker 03

  That, that the first thing, you know, they did a, a study on relationships. And they said that the, one of the few things, probably the only single thing that was consistent among, amongst successful relationships, was that the man respected the woman. I think that that, because if you respect your wife, and I, it's ongoing, you know, it's probably something, it's not like you just respect her and then you don't have to respect her, like, this is probably an ongoing thing. I, I, I think that that sets you up for success i- i- in your, in your, in your, in your relationship. Uh, and, you know, I'm sorry, say I'm sorry.

• 2:26:30Speaker 03

  You're right, and I'm sorry.

• 2:26:34Shawn Ryan?

  It works. Twenty-six years.

• 2:26:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's the only advice I have. You're right, and I'm sorry, and, and, and, and respect, and respect your, respect her. But I think that that's the, that's our, for us, I think that's our challenge, is to have respect. And then also just, you know, and be patient. Uh, you know, I'm, I, I've learned to, and I'm not always great at it, but it's, you need to have, women are moving at a different gear than we are. They're moving at a different speed, their clock's different, their timing's different, their whole thing is different. And for us, the way we are, we're so. You know, we have a certain kind of movement and there is a different movement. They're just moving at a different thing.

• 2:27:17Speaker 03

  And I'm, I'm learning that I'm still continuing every day to kind of try to acclimate myself to that, that different, that different speed, that different movement, that different, it's just a different, they just move it, you know, I always, I, I make a joke and I'm like, you know, is it man time or woman time? You know, there's like two different, there's two different clocks. Like I got my clock and then I got her clock. And is it like, where does the, where do the clocks move? You know, and they're not the same, like 12 o'clock on the man clock could be 12:45 on the woman clock. You don't know.

• 2:27:54Shawn Ryan?

  Two different algorithms.

• 2:27:55Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:27:56Shawn Ryan?

  Two different.

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:27:58Shawn Ryan?

  Second, second piece of advice. You got three daughters you're very close with. You guys have a beautiful family dynamic.

• 2:28:06Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:28:07Shawn Ryan?

  Fatherhood.

• 2:28:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, the, uh, that's a, that's a, it's a, it's an evolving thing. You know, I, I, I, if somebody said to me, you know, being a dad, I said, really? I feel like being a good father is, is that you're like a post in the middle of the house and you're just holding up the roof and you're holding on to the beam of the, of the ceiling of the roof. And every once in a while they come in and they kind of touch the post to feel if it's there and if it's steady. And so you're just like this, this, this post that holds every, everything up. And, and that's, I mean, and when you look at the parable of that, like how, what that represents as, as for your, for your girls, like that you're just solid and you're a post.

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  And then, and then, uh, you know, I, I, I am all about, first of all, take advantage of the time because it's going to go like this. It's going to be gone. And so you just better get, you're not going to be able to make it up. You're not going to be able to go back and. You know, be there and take them to school or, you know, every time you get an op- or whatever opportunity you get to be with them, milk it because it goes beyond fast. Like they just go before you know it, they're adults and they're out the door and you're like, goodbye. And it's like, and you don't get to go back. You don't get to go back and say, hey, wait a second. Can we just, can we, you know, can we do those things that we, that we got to do along the way?

• 2:29:35Speaker 03

  Uh, and so, uh, but they're gonna learn, you know, they're gonna learn courage from you. They're gonna learn, they're gonna learn, you know, your, your doc, your job is to make them courageous. Like to make your girls courageous and to give them self-confidence. Like that's part of what we do and part of that post and that is that reliability. You know, that, that, that that makes them secure. It's interesting because I've watched my daughters have a security when they, you know, they'll go out and they'll be able to go out and stay at a friend's house or go out when they're even young and never would they need to come home really or anything. They just were, they had a certain, because they knew home was there. They knew home was safe. They knew who home was solid and they could rely on it. And so I think that there's something.

• 2:30:20Speaker 03

  But that, that being that, being that rock, you know, be a, I mean, it says be a rock, like be a rock, like be stable, solid there, uh, and then take advantage, take advantage of it. Take, because it's gonna, they're gonna be adults and then you're not gonna go back and say, hey, can we redo that stuff? And yeah, it's, it's the best.

• 2:30:42Shawn Ryan?

  I will personally take that advice.

• 2:30:43Speaker 03

  It's the best.

• 2:30:44Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:30:45Speaker 03

  It's the best.

• 2:30:46Shawn Ryan?

  I am, uh, definitely realizing how fast it all goes.

• 2:30:51Speaker 03

  It's a blink of the eye and it just seems accelerate even more. It's just like it ramps up. And before you know it, they're just like looking at you in the eye and then they're a thing. And it's like, then they're out and they're, they're in a car and then they're driving and then, you know, like, my oldest daughter's off, has a whole life and you know, we, I mean, we get doctor all the time and see her, but still it's, they're gone. They're just, and you don't get to go back and you'll make it all up.

• 2:31:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Is it exciting watching them, you know, when they leave and, and?

• 2:31:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:24Shawn Ryan?

  Watching them grow as humans and adults and?

• 2:31:26Speaker 03

  Well, you know what they say? If you do a really good job, they leave easily.

• 2:31:32Speaker 03

  So that's the reward, right? You do a great job and then they just walk out the door. You're like, what the, what the? But that's, you did a good job. If they have a hard time leaving, it means you, maybe you, but, but yeah, the, and they're all so different too. Each one has a different, it's like, it's crazy how they can be so different from two of the same people. Just how does even, like, just each one comes out just completely, completely different and, and it's just the, uh, but it is interesting to see the people that they're gonna be like, you just, when you watch, I'm like, wow, it's gonna be an interesting show. This is a crazy show right now. Like, you get to see them kind of, you know, evolve and, and you go through the thing.

• 2:32:15Speaker 03

  I don't think I've ever felt more vulnerable in my life. And I don't think I've never in my life had a, I don't care what situation I've been in, hanging from a cliff. I just never felt the vulnerability that I have with the girls, just because it's not, you have no participation, you have to just watch and, and, and you just, I think that's one of the, I think that's one of the lessons in the process is that that vulnerability, you just never, you don't know what vulnerability is until you have a, a child. And then when you have a daughter, you just, I mean, you're just, when they, you know, when mom puts them in the car and then they drive out the driveway, you're just going,

• 2:32:55Speaker 03

  like, cause you just, there they go and, you know, faith, the world's, there's faith is in the, you know, in their hands and you have nothing, you're just like, you, but it's, yeah, but at the same time, I think that's what brings us that, that thing. We get that joy from it, cause of, because of that, because we get that vulnerability.

• 2:33:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:15Speaker 03

  You know?

• 2:33:16Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Um, so let's move into surfing.

• 2:33:22Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:33:22Shawn Ryan?

  First time on a surfboard.

• 2:33:24Speaker 03

  Young baby. Throw them, throw them in the, throw them on the shore break, throw them on the board, you know, urchins in the butt, like, super young, super young, uh, just.

• 2:33:38Speaker 03

  Go on the board and then uh and then and then had a board made for me when I was like a actual board that was my first surfboard, which was, you know, in that, in those days, it was, you know, I, I, I, part of it is my age, uh, when I was a child, they're just, I mean, there was no such thing as a boogie board, like, there is no, there was no foam boards, there was no boards for kids. I mean, the, the group of kids that were surfing were few and far between. I mean, you could probably count all the kids that were surfing in the world my age at my gen- during my generation. It was just like a non-existent thing. So,

• 2:34:18Speaker 03

  I was, you know, a lot of it was like pieces of surfboards, like you'd get a broken piece and that would be your surfboard, or, or some reject thing that was some, you know, some guy, uh, made high on acid or something crazy and like, here's this weird thing and you'd just, you, but it doesn't work, but that would be your first board. And so, I had, I actually got a board made for me when I was a child. And, and, uh, Bill Hamilton made, made me a board and, and he shaped and made boards. Um, one of the, one of the, uh, incidents of, uh, of the many that I was in, was I saw him shaping. He was shaping

• 2:35:00Speaker 03

  in the house that we lived in downstairs. And he, and then I went, after he was gone, and I took a handsaw, uh, which I saw him use, but I took it on these new, these ones that were completely finished. They had been hand sanded and they were, and I sawed big chunks out of the boards, which you can imagine provoked him in some sort of way, which was probably not good. Yeah. So, so, you know, it's that bad combination of, you know, good temper and misbehavior. Not a good, not a good mixture, but, uh, but yeah, so I had board made from him and

• 2:35:38Speaker 03

  then, and then, uh, and then just had, you know, uh, had, uh, just started my, started my-

• 2:35:49Speaker 03

  You know, I'm just possessed, I was just possessed to surf like that's and I was obnoxious. I there's stories when I would run around and like I would, because I, I think I was so proud to get a dad that I used to go and, you know, bang into people and go, you know, who my dad is like I had that in me because I didn't have a dad. So when I got a dad that was a surfer and he and Bill was a great surfer and one in his day, he was known as a style master. So he had one of the most beautiful styles in surfing and was, was very well known in surfing and had, you know, was in movies. And so, um, so it was like I had, I got this, you know, I got my hero to be my dad and I would go and brag and no, my dad's Bill Hamilton, blah, blah, blah. And all this stuff. They'd be like, come

• 2:36:33Speaker 03

  on getaway punk, you know, that kind of stuff. But, um, but yeah, so I, I started that, you know, that, uh, I just started surfing as a little, little rat and then just, you know, used to be, there's all these stories of me just being obnoxious and yelling in this out in the lineup and jockeying. And there's a lot of pecking order in surfing. Surfing has a very, uh, big pecking order. There's a lot of, a lot of, uh, there's a whole hierarchy. There's a whole structure within a lineup. That's pretty normal, especially like in Hawaii, um, and, and in other, other, other, uh, surf locations, but mostly, most

• 2:37:16Speaker 03

  every great wave in the world has a, has a whole pecking order, a structure of who gets the waves, who, you know, who has priority and then everybody down, down, down. Then you have like the guys that are the worst at the bottom, they get the, they get all the leftovers. And so there's a whole like a, almost a predatory structure, um, who, who, so as a young surfer in Hawaii, uh, growing up, you're having to kind of deal with that and work your, try to work your way up into through that into the, into the, into the hierarchy.

• 2:37:52Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:37:54Speaker 03

  Which is, which is an interesting process.

• 2:37:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, it sounds like it. Next on the Sean Ryan Show.

• 2:38:02Speaker 03

  You know, everything I am and have is some indirect part of the ocean. And so I owe it my life.

• 2:38:11Shawn Ryan?

  You talk about some near-death experiences. Can we go into some of those?

• 2:38:17Speaker 03

  I was in Oregon in this White Salmon River and we were doing, there was a river rafting trip. They stopped before this giant waterfall.

• 2:38:28Speaker 03

  They pulled the raft in, they made us walk around. And I said to the guy, "Well, can't we go off that thing?" He goes, "Well, we don't go off that thing."

• 2:38:36Speaker 03

  And I go, "Well, what if I want to go off that thing?" He goes, "Well, I can't stop you." So I swam out into the river and I swam right into the heart of it. And as I was going off, I was going off head first. Because I thought I was going to go like that, right? And I heard the guy yell "feet first" from the shore. So I kind of rolled over and turned around and went feet first. And I went over the waterfall and I landed underwater on a big stone with the waterfall holding me down.

• 2:39:10Speaker 03

  Just holding me like that. And I was just, and I was sitting there and I'm like, and I was like, can't move. And I tried to press, I couldn't press. And I was just, and I'm sitting there and I just got a vision of a skeleton with a life preserver on it. And I ended up, after not being able to move at all, I end up moving my leg. And when I moved my leg, it spun me out from the stone, spit me out of the back of the thing. And my friend was already swimming from the side below and the pool had come out to the, because I hadn't come up.

• 2:39:41Shawn Ryan?

  You're quite the adrenaline junkie. I think we have a lot in common.