#175 Dr. Gabrielle Lyon - The Nicotine Debate, Aging Conspiracies and Living to 100

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon is a board-certified family physician and founder of the Institute of Muscle-Centric Medicine, emphasizing skeletal muscle for health and longevity. She holds a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine and completed fellowships in nutritional sciences and geriatrics. Dr. Lyon advocates for high-quality protein diets, resistance training, and personalized wellness, serving diverse populations from elite military operators to health-conscious individuals. Her expertise has been showcased in Muscle and Fitness, Women’s Health, and Harper’s Bazaar. Dr. Lyon also hosts "The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show," a podcast covering health education and wellness with insights from various experts on nutrition, exercise, and mental well-being. She authored the New York Times best-selling book “Forever Strong: A New, Science-Based Strategy for Aging Well”. Through her YouTube channel and social media presence, Dr. Lyon inspires strength training and nutritional health prioritization. Her initiatives aim to encourage individuals to recognize strength training and nutrition as essential for a vibrant life. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://ShawnLikesGold.com | 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner http://shopify.com/srs http://ziprecruiter.com/srs https://bunkr.life/ | Use Code SRS https://americanfinancing.net/srs NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org http://trueclassic.com/srs Upgrade your wardrobe and save on @trueclassic at trueclassic.com/SRS! #trueclassicpod https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/SRS Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Links: Website - https://drgabriellelyon.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drgabriellelyon/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-gabrielle-lyon-00175a1a8/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@drgabriellelyon Forever Strong - https://a.co/d/elVhCYi Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:13Shawn Ryan?

  Dr. Gabrielle Lyons, welcome to the show.

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:18Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, we've been trying to get this thing done for, I think, has it been over a year now?

• 1:23Speaker 03

  Yep, and now here we are.

• 1:25Shawn Ryan?

  You're a busy woman.

• 1:26Speaker 03

  I mean, there was a tornado, or hurricane, or something, and kids, it's a whole thing.

• 1:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, but, um, well, I got a whole slew of stuff I want to chat with you about, and, um, you know, we just added another topic right before the cameras started rolling. Cancer scares the hell out of me. It's like every day, every day, I get a text from somebody else that's knows somebody that died of cancer, that just got diagnosed with cancer, and... It's like, uh, it's like my biggest fear. I just, I never want to get that fucking diagnosed.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  You know that you can screen for it very robustly.

• 2:06Shawn Ryan?

  I'm scared to do that, by the way.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Nope, we're doing it. We are doing it. I'm gonna tell you why. I actually sent you a paper, right before we came on the show, I published a paper, with, um, my husband, actually, who is a urology resident, on bladder cancer and military exposures. So I would say that military operators have higher rates of cancer. We're talking about cancer as if it's one thing, there are various types of cancer. The good news is, there are very robust screening tools. For example, full-body MRI scans. I'm sure you've heard of the Prunovo Scan?

• 2:46Shawn Ryan?

  What is it?

• 2:47Speaker 03

  Prunovo Scan, have you heard of that?

• 2:48Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  Full-body MRI scan, should definitely be doing that.

• 2:53Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Yes. And also something called the Gallery Test. We became very interested in this because of operators. Early detection cancer, if you can detect cancers early enough, you can initiate treatment. And so the GRAIL, originally in cancer research, it was called the GRAIL, now the Gallery Test, that is available to people through their provider. Early detection is critical.

• 3:20Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I had, me and my wife had a conversation about this, because we were gonna do it. I was like, getting screened.

• 3:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:28Shawn Ryan?

  And I was gonna go with this foundation, I can't remember the name of it, but, uh, there's a foundation that does a bunch of military guys, and I was gonna go with them. And then, uh, we're gonna, yeah, you know, have Katie do it too. And, and she was like, we were both hesitant, but she had mentioned something, and she's like, okay, so what if, uh, what if one of us gets a diagnosis? And it can't be treated? Then that changes our entire life right now.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  I think it's a good thought.

• 4:02Shawn Ryan?

  Shit, I didn't think of that.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  It's a good thought, but the reality is, is if you can get cancer early, these technologies allow for early detection, when it's in its infancy.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  I strongly encourage you to do it. In fact, I'm gonna hold you to it. I'm gonna talk to Katie too.

• 4:22Shawn Ryan?

  Alright.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  I do it every year. I just finished one.

• 4:25Shawn Ryan?

  How often do you do it?

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Every year.

• 4:27Shawn Ryan?

  Every year?

• 4:27Speaker 03

  I do, every year. Because I had a lot of anxiety about it. I think everybody does. It's that one unknown thing that seems to take people out. Whether it's...

• 4:37Shawn Ryan?

  What's... Well, I did do a blood... Can they do a blood test?

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:43Shawn Ryan?

  So I did have a blood test. This is probably two years ago now.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Great. Was it the Grail? The gallery test?

• 4:48Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I don't know. I went to a longevity doctor. He told me how long I was gonna live. It was like 76 or something. Is that real?

• 4:56Speaker 03

  No.

• 4:57Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  No.

• 4:59Shawn Ryan?

  Alright.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Besides, wasn't our game plan to live to at least 100?

• 5:02Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  No, but I do think that we are seeing a rise in cancers. We're seeing a rise in cancers that are treatable. For example, colon cancer. Getting a colonoscopy at 45, before it was 50, now it's 45. I think that they're gonna lower that number, even lower, because we're seeing an increase in cancers. These things, once they are identified, you can remove it. But if you don't go through regular screening, then the outcome is devastating.

• 5:39Shawn Ryan?

  How many different screenings are there?

• 5:41Speaker 03

  Those are the two... I mean, there's... That's a great question. So there's a colonoscopy. Everyone should be doing those. There is, obviously, for women, there's mammograms. For young men, testicular cancer is one of the highest cancers in young men, 30-some years old. They can examine themselves, or have a partner do it.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  And then these other various tests, ultrasounds, thyroid ultrasound, liver ultrasounds, we're more advanced with those tools.

• 6:17Shawn Ryan?

  Can the blood test test all of that?

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Depends on the kind and depends on, depends on the kind of cancer.

• 6:24Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  But it's a great, I think, right now, the GRAIL test, I think it's 68 different cancers, 50 or mid 60 different cancers.

• 6:36Shawn Ryan?

  How many are there?

• 6:38Speaker 03

  I couldn't even tell you.

• 6:39Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Is this, is it true it's hereditary or?

• 6:42Speaker 03

  No, not necessarily, not at all. Again, for a military operative community, they have exposures, like Agent Orange. There are all kinds of various exposures that help facilitate DNA damage.

• 7:00Shawn Ryan?

  Are there cancer preventatives other than the screenings?

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:03Shawn Ryan?

  Like what?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Diet and lifestyle. Do you know that obesity is one of the largest known risk factor for cancer?

• 7:12Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't know that. What about sugar?

• 7:16Speaker 03

  I would say that it's not.

• 7:18Shawn Ryan?

  It's not?

• 7:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:22Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  So we have to think about it. What is cancer? Cancer is a mutation in the genome, there are various types, and I'm not a cancer expert by any means. But it's some derangement that the body cannot overcome.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Could there be one insult, for example, smoking? We know that the relative risk of smoking and cancer is tremendous. But would a single dietary food cause cancer? Like sugar or red meat? No.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  We have to look at the complexity of what we do on a daily basis.

• 8:01Shawn Ryan?

  So what if you quit smoking? Or you quit vaping? Does that, and you, I mean?

• 8:07Speaker 03

  You can reduce your risk, for sure.

• 8:09Shawn Ryan?

  Is it, reduce your risk back to the, to the normal level as if you have?

• 8:13Speaker 03

  Over time. I mean, I believe that to be true, over time, yes.

• 8:17Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, okay.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  I mean, I think that we've all made bad choices.

• 8:24Shawn Ryan?

  I know I made a lot of them. But, uh, yeah. What about, well, let me give you an introduction first before we get too far in the weeds.

• 8:35Shawn Ryan?

  Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. Today, we have got an incredible guest who's going to shake up everything you thought you knew about health and wellness. Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, you are not the average physician. You're a game changer in the medical field. You're a board certified family physician who's also fellowship trained at Washington University in nutritional science and geriatrics. You founded the Institute of Muscle Centric Medicine and made it your life's mission to keep people not just living longer, but living stronger. You educate people about how skeletal muscle is the largest organ in the body, the key to longevity, and the secret weapon against diseases like obesity, heart disease, and diabetes.

• 9:19Shawn Ryan?

  You've worked with some of the toughest people out there, including special operations, military personnel, Olympic athletes, helping them to optimize their performance when it counts. You tackle big questions, offering framework for navigating the health space that are grounded in both science and practicality in your podcast, The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show. Your latest book, Forever Strong: A New Science-Based Strategy for Aging Well, became a New York Times and Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller. Congratulations on that.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  Thank you, sir.

• 9:53Shawn Ryan?

  And we're going to dive deep into how we can all take charge of our own health, the impact of our dietary choices, and why muscle health might be the first place we look in our wellness journey. And then I have a whole bunch of subcategories, too, that I came up with. Right before he showed up, it crossed my mind, like nicotine. But we'll get into that in a minute. So one thing I do have is a subscription account. It's on Patreon, and many of these people have been with us since the beginning. They're the ones that kept the lights on in the beginning and still do today. Because of them, I wouldn't be here, and neither would you.

• 10:32Shawn Ryan?

  So one of the things I do is I offer them a, I tell them who the guest is and offer them the opportunity to ask each guest a question. So since we're talking about longevity, this is a good one. This is from John Hoppin.

• 10:51Shawn Ryan?

  Being 65 now and physically very active my whole life, back issues are plaguing me and most of my friends. There are seemingly tons of fixes, et cetera, out there. What do you feel is the best approach to outright repair, or a routine, anyway, to lessen effects, to be able to maintain at least close to a normal physicality, active, healthy existence?

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Well, I think that's a great question. The first thing that I would say is mitigate injury risk. Oftentimes, we think that training like we did in our 20s, 30s, 40s, or 50s might be able to take us through to 60 and beyond. For example, I don't do a ton of explosive crazy movements. I don't want to get injured. Picking things that you can do and do well. If someone's going to squat, if they're going to deadlift, picking a weight and doing it well. Also, prehab movements. There's, you know, the big three or big five things like-

• 11:59Shawn Ryan?

  Prehab movements?

• 12:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, prehab movements. I actually learned this from an incredible physician. His name is Dr. Gerard De Nofrio. And he, you know, has taught me a lot about the tissue integrity. We think about muscle, but I think what a lot of the injuries happen, they are bone, they are connective tissue, like tendons and ligaments. So how do you warm the body up so you don't go balls to the wall and hurt yourself? And these are movements like a bird dog or glute activators, things before you enter into the actual movement. Also, making sure you're doing corrective exercises, figuring out what your imbalances are, right?

• 12:43Shawn Ryan?

  How do you do that?

• 12:44Speaker 03

  Got to get screened. You got to go to someone who knows what they're looking at.

• 12:48Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, so for somebody like me, you say like, you got to get screened. Like, who do I look for?

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Well, I have the people for you.

• 12:56Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  I have the people for you.

• 12:59Shawn Ryan?

  Are you one of them?

• 13:00Speaker 03

  I would work with my colleague, for example, Dr. Jordan Shallow, or Don Saladino, people I know and trust. And we would screen you. How are you moving?

• 13:12Shawn Ryan?

  How do you screen them?

• 13:13Speaker 03

  For, like, for me, because I tore my hamstring, I knew that I had to get very particular actions. So for me personally, and you know, it's interesting, I would say the guys that have been in the teams, you have to be built very robustly. If you are not built very robustly, you wash out. You don't, you don't even make it. But for me, for a normal athletic person, I have movements like my squat isn't right. Someone would watch my squat. Someone would watch my lunge, just movements that maybe I'm not activating my glute or maybe my hip is dropping. But someone who knows what to look for, just like a doctor who can look at blood work and say, you know what?

• 13:58Speaker 03

  Your eosinophils are elevated. You might have a gut bug. There are professionals that really look at the body comprehensively to see those movement patterns.

• 14:08Shawn Ryan?

  OK, so they're actually screening.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  The way you're moving.

• 14:11Shawn Ryan?

  For exercises.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Screening, yeah. And in dynamic positions. You know, with the back, typically, if someone has a sedentary lifestyle, just outside of exercise, figuring out what kind of mechanical thing that they're doing that is creating issues throughout their whole 24-hour cycle. And then the other thing, what about things like stem cell treatments? I think that that can be very valuable.

• 14:44Shawn Ryan?

  What does stem cell treatment do?

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Take your blood, spins it down. It helps create an inflammatory process to help rebuild and repair.

• 14:52Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have to leave the country to do that?

• 14:53Speaker 03

  Um, I've had it done multiple times. We send a lot of team guys to get them done and oftentimes, we don't have them leave the country.

• 15:02Shawn Ryan?

  Really? So you can get it here in the US?

• 15:05Speaker 03

  You can.

• 15:05Shawn Ryan?

  You can make that recommendation on where to go?

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Um, I can, I can. I think that when you go outside the US, there are various countries that have been doing it for a very long time. You know, they do it in Dubai, they do it in Japan. I can't speak to those areas. I mean, some of my friends have clinics over there. There are various places in Mexico. Again, it's hit or miss. It's not regulated. You have to go to someone who you trust. I mean, it's really important because I've heard really bad stories of people that have gotten infected.

• 15:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  To be very careful.

• 15:44Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I've thought about that, the stem cell stuff for my back, but I haven't done it because I just...

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Has to be validated, has to be vetted. I mean, there are reasons why we have certain regulations and one might argue that we might be slow to change, but I think there are certain procedures that, again, I don't do these procedures, there are certain procedures that can be done stateside that I think are very effective. I think there may be the opportunity to go outside the country to get them done, but you have to be very careful about the provider that you choose in that way.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the say.

• 18:01Shawn Ryan?

  So, I mean, I'm just, is there a resource that people should use to find? I mean, for somebody like me that has no idea what the hell we're looking at, and everybody's selling something.

• 18:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:12Shawn Ryan?

  You know, like, where do you find a reliable resource? And nobody, there's a massive distrust in the healthcare system nowadays. And, and, I mean, I don't even have a primary care anymore, because, which is probably horrible, but I go to them and I'm like, and then I go to somebody like you, who reads all of the lines of my blood work and tells me all the good things and the bad things and everything, and then I go to the doctor, and he's like, oh, yep, everything looks good. See you in six months. You know, and so, but people don't know where to look. You know, people don't know where to look for vax, like, what do we do about vaccines? Do we vaccinate them, our kids? Do we not vaccinate our kids? Do we take the COVID shot? Do we not take the COVID shot?

• 18:56Shawn Ryan?

  Are stem cells, is that, is that healthy? Where, where can I go? Where is it reliable? And, and so, there's like this mass confusion of who can we trust in healthcare now? So where, for a stem cell, what, where do you find reliable? How do you know if they're reliable for somebody like me?

• 19:16Speaker 03

  This is a very important question, and I think it goes across all medical providers. The first thing that you look for, is this person board certified in what they're talking about? Did they do rigorous training?

• 19:32Speaker 03

  The thing with medicine is it does have a lot of problems. But I would say that one thing that we're very good at is vetting and having credentials, a governing board, that these people are capable. They are board certified in what they are talking about. They have passed their exams. They hold an active medical license.

• 19:58Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  Number one. Number two, you look for a fellowship-trained physician. Was this person specialty-trained in the thing that they are doing? Then, number three, there are governing bodies like associations. And again, I'm saying this blanketly, but there are, there's a ton of, there's a ton of problems. You're right. Because do we trust traditional medicine? How do we begin to think about these things? You know, even with hormone replacement therapy, the guidelines are set very low. So for testosterone replacement, does someone have 300, you know, is their testosterone 300? Can you treat them?

• 20:42Speaker 03

  Is it that they feel terrible at 300? But the guidelines say that 300 or less, or 290 or less, is the low number. So looking also at these governing bodies, these associations, will have a list of providers that they feel are qualified.

• 21:00Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, good.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  So that's one way. I'll give you an example. A cosmetic surgeon is different than a plastic surgeon. Somebody could do a, I don't know, make up a residency, gastrointestinal residency, then take a fellowship in cosmetic surgeon, surgery, and then become a cosmetic surgeon.

• 21:30Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  That would be terrifying. If something goes wrong, that's terrifying. Really understanding where this person was trained, what their qualifications are, and who else do you know that has used this person? And how are they thought of within the community? It's tough.

• 21:52Shawn Ryan?

  It is tough. You know, me and my wife are always looking around and poking around at different things. And, um, what do you think about, um, I wasn't even really expecting to go here. But what do you, what do you think about these, uh, what do they call nat, with these more natural doctors? What do they call them? Can't remember.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  Um, naturopaths?

• 22:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 22:13Speaker 03

  Or holistic, are you talking about?

• 22:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, it's more like holistic medicine.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Functional medicine, maybe?

• 22:16Shawn Ryan?

  Functional medicine.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 22:18Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think? So, we've been looking for a functional medicine doctor and, and because we're really concerned about the vaccines and stuff. And so, but a lot of these functional medicine doctors I've gone to, I leave and I'm like, ah, this is like, that's right. This doesn't sound like a doctor. This sounds like a sales pitch on, we don't do vaccines. And that shit weirds me out.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:43Shawn Ryan?

  It's like, look, man, yeah, we're not really into the vaccine thing, but we also want somebody that can do all the rest of the stuff that a fucking doctor should be able to do and treat our kid. And, and if he break, my son breaks his arm, you better be able to fix it. Like, your sales pitch to me can't be, well, we don't, we don't do vaccines and tell me how fucked up they are. Like, I get it, man. Like, yeah, everybody's, everybody's talking about this. But like, what else do you do other than just not give vaccines?

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Um, another really astute question. So, this idea of functional medicine, which I've been, um, practicing and trained in functional medicine, I don't know if you know that, over ten years. And the idea of functional medicine, which it seems to have morphed over the years, is root cause medicine. It's this idea of what is at the core causing these issues. And functional medicine is a way of thinking about it through that lens. I don't know if you know that, but I, I still have a full medical practice.

• 23:51Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, you got a lot going on.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  I have a full medical practice and what we do is we practice integrative medicine. We practice the best of functional medicine, which the idea of functional medicine is again, that root cause approach. So for example, let's say you have GI issues. I know that your listeners, that many of them are going to have GI issues. Whatever they eat, they're going to feel bloated, there's going to be all kinds of things that happen. If you go to a traditional doctor, potentially, right, a traditional doctor might say, well, have some Metamucil, you'll be fine. But a functional medicine doctor will go, okay, why? Where is this coming from? Is there a parasitic infection that you've had?

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Is there a series of foods that you are eating that are maybe causing gas and bloating? Whatever it is. We find what the root cause is and then we address it at the root. What you're talking about is, and I think a really good doctor thinks about it comprehensively. That a really good doctor is able to not just look at, your numbers are good, this is fine, this is the standard, but what are some of these issues? Where do you want to go? And I, functional medicine, and you know, over the years, it's really gotten a bad rap. It's gotten a bad rap because when you are saying you are practicing medicine, you better

• 25:20Speaker 03

  be a doctor. And that is, you better be an MD or a DO and have an active medical license. Then there are naturopathic doctors. I, there are a few that I trust, but I think that there's a large stigma that goes with them because can you prescribe medications in all 50 states? Have you had the same kind of training? Again, I, I think that that's, they're good for their own niche, but a truly comprehensive provider will look at the root cause.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  And that's actually where medicine is moving.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Who should be able to practice medicine? If someone says functional medicine, do they have a medical degree? And I have nothing against chiropractors. Are they practicing outside their scope? Are they trained to read blood work? Are you going to someone who is saying they're practicing functional medicine? And they don't have an active medical license?

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Do we need primary care physicians? Absolutely. Do we need people that can provide an antibiotic if necessary? Yes, absolutely.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Are supplements and natural treatments valuable? They can be. The severity of the illness must equally be treated with an impactful solution. And I'm going to explain to you what I mean by that.

• 27:07Speaker 03

  If someone comes to me with GI issues,

• 27:13Speaker 03

  typically, that's not challenging to treat. We can use a combination. Myself, my other providers in my medical practice can use a combination of natural and antibiotics if necessary. We'll try to do it natural, but there are limitations. There are limitations to what a supplement can do.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  You have to match the illness or the challenge with a treatment that is going to have a meaningful impact.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  And you have to be very careful. You know, what has become so fascinating is with this distrust in medicine, there's all kinds of things that are, people believe that are not true. That doctors get paid to prescribe medications. We don't.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  This idea of Big Pharma. Big Pharma has challenges, but there are other things like compounding pharmacies that make medication affordable. Have you ever heard of Empower Pharmacy? The largest compounding pharmacy in the world? No, I haven't. But this idea, for example, GLP-1s, that they are so unaffordable for everybody. GLPs, GIP, people have heard of Ozempic and Monjerno. And people are saying, well, these are just for the elite. They're unaffordable. That's not true.

• 28:34Speaker 03

  There are compounding pharmacies that represent 2% of this pharmaceutical massiveness.

• 28:42Shawn Ryan?

  Is there any, is there anything you need to look out for with a compounding pharmacy?

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Yes. Compounding pharmacies, they have to be regulated. They have to have a reputation. They have all kinds of paperwork that they're required. I mean, again, we use Empower Pharmacy. They're the largest compounding pharmacy in the world. They make medications accessible and affordable to my patients. So we don't have to go under this idea of Big Pharma. But your original question was, how do we know who to trust? It's difficult. They must be trained. They cannot be misleading. If someone has doctor in front of their name, it can't be a, and again, this is a very

• 29:30Speaker 03

  large audience, so I'm not trying to offend podiatrists, or I'm not trying to offend dentists, or, or things of that nature. But if someone is saying they are a metabolic expert, and it says, "Doctor so-and-so," and that person has not done metabolic training, but hold a doctorate in, I don't know, history? You can, on Instagram, they will say, "Doctor so-and-so, metabolic expert." But if you don't look under the hood, that expert has a doctorate in, I don't know, history.

• 30:03Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  Nothing is more important than your health. Nothing is more important than having a provider that you can trust, hands down. You need a great teammate at home. You need a great lawyer. You need a great accountant. And you need a great doctor. And a real doctor relationship is someone you have a relationship with.

• 30:25Shawn Ryan?

  So what is your practice?

• 30:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:29Shawn Ryan?

  Do you, I mean, is it remote? Are you a primary care doc?

• 30:34Speaker 03

  I'm a primary care doctor by training. And then I am fellowship trained in nutritional sciences and geriatrics. My practice, we have a practice that is all telehealth. My patients come to see me in Texas in person. I started my practice, believe it in New York City, terrible idea. Rent was like $40,000 a month, terrible idea. And it was really interesting.

• 30:59Speaker 03

  I went right into private practice. And New York City, I was right across from Central Park. There's the Plaza, Columbus Circle, Central Park. It was very hooty-toity. And I started seeing patients, whether they're celebrities or athletes. It wasn't really my cup of tea so much. And then I started seeing operators.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  For the listener, it's SEALs, Green Berets, Rangers, but mostly SEALs. Started becoming very interested in them even before I graduated fellowship. And...

• 31:40Shawn Ryan?

  How did that come across your radar?

• 31:43Speaker 03

  It was mindset.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  You know, medical training is difficult. Medical training is sacrifice. You sacrifice your youth. You sacrifice your time, your energy. You become very good at sacrifices. And people think medicine is noble, which it is, but it's very rigorous. And you are working 24 hours. You know, you are, my husband's working. I shouldn't even say the amount of hours that he's working because it would, you know, you can't violate hours, but you miss a lot. And it was hard for me. So I did two years of psychiatry training, which I didn't like at all.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  I spent two years at the University of Louisville, working. My first residency was psychiatry. And I left that residency. I thought it was something different than it was. I thought psychiatry training was, people were really thinking about how to get the best out of themselves. And that's what psychiatry was.

• 32:52Speaker 03

  I remember this patient, this was my first couple of months on the job as an intern. And this guy jumped off a parking garage and he died. You know, they called psychiatry, broke every bone in his body. He was a medical student. His father was a surgeon who worked at the University of Louisville. And I was like, I had to tell his dad, I brought his dad back to his body.

• 33:37Speaker 03

  And that was just one example of the experience in psychiatry. And it wasn't what I thought. It was a lot of medication. It was, you know, the brain is an organ. You know, you and I were talking about addiction before, the brain is an organ and the brain can get sick. So I switched and I went into family practice because I felt with family practice, I could reach a lot of people. I could help a lot of people. I would be the first line of defense. Someone comes in, you know, your stomach hurts, you have low testosterone, you have a cold, you broke your arm, I'm going to be able to be useful and send you to where

• 34:21Speaker 03

  you need to go. But during that training, it wasn't easy for me, you know? And I would say that it's not easy for any physician. We get a lot of slack, but, or a lot of flak, but that training is tough. And how I got to operate is, again, this is long-winded. You told me we had six hours for this podcast, so I could actually talk a little bit more than I normally ever do on a podcast. But I turned to the people that I thought that were the best at being mentally tough and capable.

• 35:02Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 35:04Shawn Ryan?

  How'd you meet your husband? So your husband, your husband was a SEAL?

• 35:09Speaker 03

  My husband was a SEAL. We got married while he was still active duty. He was on Team Ten, same as Shane Kronstadt. He's bummed he's actually working today, so he can't make it. But do you know who Mark Divine is?

• 35:24Shawn Ryan?

  Yes, I've not met him, but I know who he is.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  So Mark is unusual. Mark, I think what you see online is different very much from who he is. He's very sage-like. He'd probably be embarrassed if I'm saying this, but I've known Mark for over 10 years. And again, this was over a decade ago. And Mark was talking a lot about mental toughness in a way that I could understand and think about. It was a way that really resonated with me. And so I found him. And I went and I learned from him. And that was my first exposure

• 36:07Speaker 03

  to the mentality of what I believed that an elite operator had. Because there are not that many of you guys. At any given time, there's 2,500. And remember, 10 years ago. So right now, the SEAL community, I think, has a lot more exposure than it did a decade ago. Would you agree with that?

• 36:27Shawn Ryan?

  Absolutely.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  And if you think a decade ago, or over a decade ago, where were people turning to? To think about how to cultivate mental robustness? I mean, I don't even know.

• 36:45Shawn Ryan?

  Maybe they weren't.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  They probably, I mean, I don't know. So for me, I was looking for mentors. From mentors that weren't just heads. It's one thing to say you're mentally tough and then not actually go through challenges.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  That allow you to express that. And so I was just very interested in the culture. And it helped me a lot. It helped me get through residency and training and the sacrifices that I was making. Because it's, it's again, I missed almost every holiday. I missed time out with friends. I missed relationships. I miss a lot. And when I started to learn tools and ways of processing things, it made me a much better doctor. Now, how I met my husband?

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Mark called me and said, hey, I have this guy who wants to go to medical school. Can you talk to him about what it takes? What are the things? And when my husband, so when my husband was deployed in Afghanistan, he taught himself physics and calculus. So he was a medic in the teams. And he knew that he wanted to go to medical school at that time. I think he saw a lot of lower body injuries. He just saw a lot of injuries. And I know that he wanted to be able to do more.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  An introduction was made. And I don't know about you, but any normal woman would never want to date a SEAL. No offense, friend. And I had already graduated residency and fellowship. And again, I was already taking care of the special operations community at that time. Because I really feel like they provided an incredible value as humans.

• 38:54Shawn Ryan?

  What were you doing?

• 38:56Speaker 03

  GI stuff. So basically, when a guy gets out, so I would see guys that were out or a handful of guys that were trying to get into BUDs. And then most of my patient population were guys that either were on medical leave, transitioning out, or out. Because, and I know that I can speak freely on this podcast. Yes?

• 39:19Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. That's what we do here.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Okay. There was a period of time, I think, that

• 39:26Speaker 03

  The forward-facing, and then again, please, you'll tell me where you disagree and where it's too much, or I shouldn't say, but I think that there was, the forward-facing special operations community is, can be very glamorous. And the sacrifice behind the scenes is tremendous. Uh huh. The sacrifice behind the scenes for the wives, the sacrifice behind the scenes from TBI, from just chronic injuries, people don't see that. And when the guys would get out, they'd already been to the VA, they'd already been to all these other places, and they were not getting better. They felt terrible.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  They would come to me, and we would do a comprehensive analysis. You know, I'm part of the SEAL Future Foundation, I work on their medical board. We would get guys from SEAL Future Foundation, from Task Force Dagger, we'd look at gastrointestinal problems, that was, that is a huge complaint. Guys would go, get deployed, whole platoons would get sick. They would go to Mayo Clinic, they would go to Johns Hopkins, and they wouldn't get answers. So I became very good at treating complex things that were not tested for well. And a lot of it was infectious disease. Lyme disease, parasites, figuring out, facilitating who they needed to go to.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  The old-school parasitologists, right now, everyone does these gut tests that have to be sent out, and it's something called PCR. PCR misses, I don't know, the number, I'd say at least 80% of these diagnoses. Wow. So these guys weren't getting better. 80%? I mean, I'm saying that from my clinical experience, I don't know what the data says, because what we'd do is, we would send out these PCR testing, because now it's the gold standard. Nobody wants to go and do a rectal exam on a patient, and, or do a rectal exam, take a stool sample, look it under a microscope. That is a dying field. It's a dying field. The old-school parasitologists, that's what they used to do.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Now, you get a stool sample, and you send it, and it goes to a lab. That missed almost everything. We would send them to old-school parasitology in New York, they would come back with whipworm, roundworm, liver fluke.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  We would treat them, we would treat their wives. Because if one person in the family has it, typically, everybody has it.

• 42:00Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  So, so these guys, so these things were going undiagnosed. I mean, there was one guy, he had schistomoniasis. He came to me because he was having phantom limb pain. And he ended up having schistomoniasis.

• 42:14Shawn Ryan?

  Schistomoniasis?

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's a parasite that can get in the bladder, irritate the bladder. But again, so you ask me, what do I do? Because I still treat special operations community. We still treat them. We figure out what's going on in all domains. Low testosterone, send them out for, it's a lot of head trauma that happens. Got to send them out, they have to get testing. There's a lot of exposures. The barracks are full of mold. The places in which people live in water damaged areas, full of mold. The body cannot get rid of that. So it's, it's complicated.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  And there are groups that are putting together ways of looking at the operator. And it's not just the operator, it's everybody. But we are in an environment that is very challenging. And the treatments are not so simple.

• 43:17Shawn Ryan?

  So where did these parasites come from?

• 43:22Speaker 03

  The number one place?

• 43:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  I would say food. And now we live in a global society. I will say, I never eat anything raw. So she's out the window, are you kidding? I would not touch, listen, I never eat raw. And people will say, well, if you freeze it, then it'll kill whatever bug. I don't see that. I don't eat anything raw. I don't eat any undercooked meat. When we go to dinner tonight, and your wife looks at me because I'm ordering my steak well done at some great steakhouse that we're going to, and ruining the entire food, I will tell you, I, I do not want a worm. I'm good.

• 44:01Shawn Ryan?

  So that's where it comes from, huh?

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of people, I mean, you can get it from water, you can get it from animals. Parasites can come from animals, Giardia, yes, you can get it if dog is sick and then they're kissing your mouth and you can get it. All over. It's ubiquitous.

• 44:21Shawn Ryan?

  How do you get rid of them?

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Here will be the difference. Most people,

• 44:27Speaker 03

  many people will try to treat it naturally. I haven't found that to work.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  You use antibiotics or you use whatever protocol is necessary for that.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  And it's fixable. You treat everybody, it's fixable. But I will tell you, for example, a helminth infection, which is a worm, is one of the leading causes of iron deficiency anemia. Because of what it does to the intestine. It creates,

• 44:57Speaker 03

  well, number one, they create their own issue, but it affects absorption.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  See, John, we can fix all these things, by the way, my friend.

• 45:09Shawn Ryan?

  How many, if you had to put a percentage on it, just off the top of your head, I'm not asking for exact numbers, but I mean, what percent of people do you see have some type of parasite?

• 45:19Speaker 03

  90%?

• 45:20Shawn Ryan?

  90%? So I probably have parasite.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Oh, you definitely, yes, yes, my friend, you definitely have one. You definitely have one. I've never had, I've never had a team guys that's not had a parasite.

• 45:32Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 45:34Speaker 03

  Never.

• 45:39Speaker 00

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• 46:14Speaker 00

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• 46:48Shawn Ryan?

  I've been checked for those things.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  You've been checked the traditional way, which is PCR testing. That's right. And that is, that's part of the issue. And we got really good at treating and testing for those kinds of things because you need solutions. Although you're very robust and healthy, you know, some guys end up really struggling. They end up really struggling.

• 47:11Shawn Ryan?

  So what, I mean, if, let's say I have a parasite.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:14Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 47:15Speaker 03

  We test it and we treat it.

• 47:16Shawn Ryan?

  What would I be feeling? What, what does it do to me?

• 47:20Speaker 03

  Um, you don't have normal stools. You might go to the bathroom more frequently. You will, you know, it's not always related to food. Can't figure out why your stomach is bothering you. We might see it on your blood work, malabsorption. Almost everybody has it. You might have, are you ready for this?

• 47:43Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Itchy feet, itchy ears, itchy anus. You might find that these things happen cyclically. This is going to sound crazy, but during the full moon, this is when they seem to be very active because they go through life cycles.

• 47:58Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 47:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it's very common and it should be treated.

• 48:03Shawn Ryan?

  What about acid reflux would cause any of that?

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Probably H. pylori, yes.

• 48:07Shawn Ryan?

  What's, what is it?

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Bacteria that should be treated. Easy to treat, easy to test for. It is a risk factor for gastric cancer. Got to treat these things. But what's amazing is that we're very skilled. This is where medicine is wonderful. We're skilled at these things. H. pylori reflux, 50% of the population might have H. pylori. But you got to treat it, got to test it, you got to treat it.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Nicotine probably doesn't help for the reflux, must say.

• 48:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, probab- well, I mean...

• 48:44Speaker 03

  Sleep apnea, all team guys. If your neck is greater than seventeen and a half inches, you have to be tested for sleep apnea.

• 48:53Shawn Ryan?

  Well, if you don't breathe through your mouth, do you have to worry about sleep apnea?

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Yes, you gotta be tested.

• 48:59Shawn Ryan?

  Jeez.

• 49:00Speaker 03

  But listen, I don't wanna be Debbie Downer. So we have to, now we have to switch this to some positive stuff. Is that, um, it has never been easier to be healthier.

• 49:14Speaker 03

  So we're kind of at this precipice where it's never been easier to take action. We have access to more capacity than ever before.

• 49:26Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about nicotine real quick.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  Okay, as you want to do it, yes.

• 49:30Shawn Ryan?

  Because

• 49:32Shawn Ryan?

  I went to Tucker's event. Tucker had a, you know, he's coming out with his own nicotine pouch.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  He is?

• 49:38Shawn Ryan?

  He is, he's coming out with his own nicotine pouch, it's called ALP. And, uh, he had a party here. So I went.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  So do you feel bad that you're not using his nicotine right now?

• 49:48Shawn Ryan?

  Shh, don't tell him, don't tell him. It's not out yet, I already chewed them all. But, um, but no, I went, anyways, I went to this event and I was like, alright, whatever, it's a nicotine party, I don't do any of this stuff. But I was like, alright, I'll have one. And then I was like, I kinda like this shit.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Nicot- so nicotine is amazing. Nicotine is, nicotine is amazing.

• 50:12Shawn Ryan?

  So then I, so then, because you know, I was talking about it around my phone.

• 50:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:17Shawn Ryan?

  Now I'm getting all these fucking nicotine heads.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  So wow, they are on you, they are on top of it.

• 50:21Shawn Ryan?

  So, but I, I saw somewhere, I can't even remember what it was, but apparently there's some benefits to nicotine?

• 50:26Speaker 03

  There are some benefits to nicotine. Nicotine is a naturally occurring substance. It is stimulant. It vasoconstricts, so, um, it vasoconstricts blood vessels, the skin, probably in the mouth, just all over. There are nicotine receptors in the brain, in the body. It's thought to, uh, release adrenaline.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Nicotine comes in various forms. It's actually part of the nightshade family. Comes from a nightshade plant. From what I understand, I mean, they probably can manufacture nicotine now. But when nicotine is smoked, that's not good. Nicotine in the form of a cigarette. So I think that we have to be fair, right? Do I recommend people all go on nicotine? It's highly addictive, which...

• 51:20Shawn Ryan?

  Figured that out.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  You've figured that out, my friend. You have figured that out. I personally love nicotine and it has to be used discretionary. What are some of its benefits? When I was doing my fellowship at Wash U in geriatrics, I worked... So part of the job as a fellow is to obviously do research. And I did research, but we ran a memory and aging clinic. And so the things that were coming up on how do you make people more cognitively robust? What are the studies? What are we looking at for new data coming out? And one of the papers that came across my desk was, in fact, nicotine.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  It was nicotine improving cognitive function in Alzheimer's and potentially Parkinson's.

• 52:09Shawn Ryan?

  How does it improve Alzheimer's?

• 52:10Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it does in a meaningful way, but one of the things that it seems to do is it improves attention, concentration. There are just various domains of thinking and memory it seems to affect. Gives you that boost that you love. Again, I love it. I have to be very careful because it does cause gum recession. It may have negative... It increases blood pressure. So the cardiologist that I use, he... I send him all my patients. He's amazing. His name is Dr. Mike Twyman. He sits there with blue blacking glasses.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  He's hysterical. He's very calm. He's very zen. And I remember I go to St. Louis every year for all the testing. And, you know, he was like, that nicotine habit, that's a terrible habit for your blood vessels. So there may be, I joke and I say that, there can be negative... There's a negative impact on blood pressure, some vasculature, gum recession.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Am I selling you on it, or are you still keeping it?

• 53:29Shawn Ryan?

  I'm gonna quit.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  It's difficult.

• 53:32Shawn Ryan?

  I like it, but I'm gonna quit.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Because it's something that you need, that you love?

• 53:40Shawn Ryan?

  Uh, I mean, I just, like I said, I've been doing it for a couple of weeks, but I was like, it came in like a wave. I interviewed this, I interviewed somebody who's an investor in this new one called SESH too, and he brought a whole basket.

• 53:54Speaker 03

  It's highly addictive.

• 53:55Shawn Ryan?

  And now the whole damn team's chewing nicotine. But, uh...

• 54:00Speaker 03

  So I will say that, um, me personally, I prefer gum. But I'm a, you see, I'm, I'm, it can increase energy expenditure.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  I think there are positives with it, and then I think that there are negatives.

• 54:16Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about some hormone stuff.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  Great.

• 54:19Shawn Ryan?

  So, it's no secret, I mean, team guys come out, it sounds like TBI and PTSD and a lot of these other things lower, uh, it just lowers testosterone for whatever reason, right? And so you get all these guys coming out and they have a T level of, what, 200, 300? What, for starters, before we go any further, what is, what is a normal level?

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Um, there, so it's, it's complicated because normal testosterone is going to be individual.

• 54:50Speaker 03

  And let's say the number, depending on the lab that you look at, goes up to 1,000. A great, robust number. It's not the total T, it's the free T.

• 55:00Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  And again, it depends on the lab, but guys always got, uh, team guys care about two things.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  Good hair and testosterone.

• 55:11Shawn Ryan?

  I'm fucked with the hair.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  Um, listen, I can make these jokes. I'm married to a team guy, take care of lots of them, um... So, or maybe I can't make them, but they're coming anyway.

• 55:22Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody knows.

• 55:23Speaker 03

  They're coming. It is about the free testosterone. The total testosterone below 300 is low. But that's weird. So if it goes from 300 to 1,000 and someone is 350, they might feel terrible. Right? But there are these, again, we talked about medicine. How do you know? Who do you go to? How do you know what to trust?

• 55:47Speaker 03

  You know, there is, you know, there's the AUA, which is the American Urology Association. That's one entity. And then there's the Endocrine Society. That group that will all have different recommendations. But it's the free testosterone that matters. Again, I think people feel better the higher the number. Again, that's just my opinion. But it's not just about the testosterone number. There are receptors. And it is all about the sensitivity of your receptors.

• 56:27Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Do we know what your receptors are? We don't. We can test it at Baylor. It's called a CAG repeat. For example, you might feel great at a testosterone of 400. My husband might need a testosterone of 700 to feel good.

• 56:45Shawn Ryan?

  So is it the higher the T level, the more free testosterone you have?

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Depends. I mean, that's your best bet because in order to get testosterone free, so testosterone and sex hormone binding globulin. Testosterone are like, or sex hormones are like children. They can't go anywhere alone. What you care about is that free number. Testosterone in the bloodstream is typically bound to sex hormone binding globulin. And then there's a free number. And that free number, you want as high as, you know, I say as high as possible, but that free number should be high. It'll, it'll vary depending on whatever the lab is, whether it's 45 or higher depending. Again, it just depends on that lab range.

• 57:32Speaker 03

  But what I think is really important is that hormone replacement therapy has this taboo.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  Film around it. Would you, would you agree with that?

• 57:44Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  I mean, there's struggles even right now with can you treat team guys? Can you treat active military? You know, there's a lot of challenges with providing hormone replacement. It's old, it's old school.

• 58:02Speaker 03

  When you look at where that came from,

• 58:08Speaker 03

  testosterone and hormone replacement therapy got a bad rap. When the drugs with sporting happened. I'm not old enough to know what it was like to practice medicine before then. But I will tell you that since I have been in medicine, it has had a huge stigma for men and women. Testosterone is not FDA approved for women. In my clinic, we put women on testosterone all the time.

• 58:37Shawn Ryan?

  Really? Why?

• 58:38Speaker 03

  Off label, sex drive, low levels of testosterone.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Sarcopenia, decreased muscle mass. But what's so interesting is that I can give you a medication to make you less fat and nobody thinks twice about it. Right? I can give you a Zempic. I can give you a GLP one, GIP, Monjaro, Wegovy. No one thinks twice about it.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  But when I write a script for hormones or talk to you about anabolic, it's like people think that's crazy.

• 59:18Shawn Ryan?

  So is it, is it true that just the population as a whole here in the US has lower testosterone than, than our grandparents?

• 59:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 59:28Shawn Ryan?

  Our grandparents?

• 59:28Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 59:29Shawn Ryan?

  Is that, is that from the food? What is that from?

• 59:31Speaker 03

  It is from

• 59:32Shawn Ryan?

  Is it environmental?

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Obesity.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  It is from our sleep habits, which I have terrible ones. It is from the

• 59:45Speaker 03

  potentially endocrine disruptors. It is, we are under blue lights all the time. We are outside of the natural environment. We do not train, we are, we are not robust as humans.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  Fertility levels have also decreased.

• 1:00:00Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  The funny thing with medicine is, once we get an idea, we believe that idea.

• 1:00:08Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  I'll give you an example. For the longest time, people thought testosterone replacement therapy would cause prostate cancer. Did you ever hear that?

• 1:00:19Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. I almost didn't do it because of that.

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  It's not true.

• 1:00:23Speaker 03

  Nobody questioned that until the likes of, you know, the legends in the field of andrology like Abe Morganteller or Dr. Mohai Kara began to study this. It doesn't cause prostate cancer. And in fact, depending on the type of cancer, those that have low testosterone do worse. There seems to be some protective effects.

• 1:00:46Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  Yes. So I, I think what we have to recognize is this common theme of having an idea that remains unchallenged. For decades, people believed, and probably still do, that testosterone causes cancer.

• 1:01:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I've, I've always heard that it, it can increase the speed that cancer grows in the body.

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  Again, probably depends on the kind of cancer, probably depends on a multitude of factors. But overall, testosterone replacement does not cause cancer. Testosterone replacement can be protective. Also, this idea of testosterone replacement therapy affecting adversely your risk of a heart attack.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  They did something called the TRAVERSE trial. It does not increase negative outcomes for cardiovascular impacts. I mean, these are serious things to understand because as a society, we make overarching statements about our care based on unchallenged information or rhetoric or repetition.

• 1:02:11Shawn Ryan?

  Another question. So with my primary care doc.

• 1:02:18Speaker 03

  Who I now will be.

• 1:02:19Shawn Ryan?

  Who I won't go to anymore.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:02:21Shawn Ryan?

  You know, it was always, it was always, "Well, it's good for your age." Well, my question to you is, if I felt my best at age, let's just say 25, and my testosterone was way up here, and now I'm 42, and it's down here, why wouldn't I want to bring that up to the level it was at age 25 throughout the duration of my existence?

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  You would.

• 1:02:51Shawn Ryan?

  So it should be at that level. Does that mean, does that mean going back in time to before we had all these environmental issues and obesity and all the other shit that's contributing to low T?

• 1:03:10Shawn Ryan?

  Would a human being maintain the same level of testosterone throughout the duration of their...

• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  I believe, yes. For men, yes.

• 1:03:17Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  Now, sex hormone binding globulin, which is that, exactly what that is, that protein will increase, but, you know, for example, my dad, who's 74, his testosterone is 750.

• 1:03:28Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  He lives in Ecuador. He walks everywhere.

• 1:03:32Shawn Ryan?

  He lives in Ecuador?

• 1:03:33Speaker 03

  He does. He lives in Ecuador. He walks everywhere. He is very diligent on everything. I mean, he lives very close to nature. We do not have to face the state of the health that we are in. We do not have to be where we are, at all.

• 1:03:55Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that, do you think that because all, there's a lot of discussion on all of the, it seems like healthcare is just being revolutionized right now?

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  We are, we are entering a renaissance. We are entering a golden era. I believe so.

• 1:04:10Shawn Ryan?

  So are our children gonna, I mean, are our children gonna have, deal with the same, the same issues, do you think? Are they gonna, you know, people are eating cleaner, people are...

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  People are not.

• 1:04:22Shawn Ryan?

  They're not?

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  Um, by the... The speculations by 20, 30, 50% are going to be obese.

• 1:04:30Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, okay.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  Our children, mine and your children, yes. They are going to be stronger and more capable and more robust.

• 1:04:39Shawn Ryan?

  People are getting away, maybe not everybody, but there's a lot of discussion. I mean, RFK is coming in.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:04:45Shawn Ryan?

  He's gonna...

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  And he has an opportunity to do incredible work, yes.

• 1:04:49Shawn Ryan?

  So, so as people start moving away from plastics and people, people start eating cleaner and people start doing farm-to-table type, type food and, and going to local farmers versus, versus, you know, getting chicken and beef there rather than...

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Chick-fil-A?

• 1:05:07Shawn Ryan?

  Chick-fil-A, rather than, you know, the, the stuff that was raised in a pumped full of hormones, you know?

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  Hormones don't, so let's talk about this, yes.

• 1:05:16Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Let's talk about this.

• 1:05:17Shawn Ryan?

  Let's do it.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  We have the capacity to be healthier than ever before from a nutrition standpoint. Nutrition science is relatively new. It's not something that we've all known about and, and, you know, I, I've trained in nutritional sciences. That's my area of expertise. I trained professionally in nutritional sciences for seven years. That's what I've done. And I will tell you, over the last 20 years of watching this, number one, the guidelines, which are called the RDA or the, that's the Recommended Dietary Allowance and the Dietary Guidelines, when it relates to meaningful numbers, let's just say protein, they haven't

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  changed in the last 50 years.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  Saturated fat, this percentage number is, I believe to be wrong, also hasn't changed. If we go back, because history repeats itself, where did this come from? In, in the 40s, they started to really think about food for people because of World War II. World War II, the backs were up against a wall.

• 1:06:39Speaker 03

  Forty percent of those that enlisted were unfit for war. Coming out of the Great Depression, they were just a mess. So there was this three-day conference. The idea was you win the war with food. How do we take broken Americans and make them robust? They began to put in rationing. Rationing was, they recognized the importance of dietary protein. Soldiers were rationed one to one and a half pounds of meat a week. Sounds like a lot, right?

• 1:07:17Shawn Ryan?

  One and a half pounds of meat a week?

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  A week. It's not that much, right?

• 1:07:21Shawn Ryan?

  I don't think that's a lot.

• 1:07:22Speaker 03

  It's not. The current dietary guidelines are recommending less than what we were rationed in the beginning of World War II.

• 1:07:33Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. What should we be eating?

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  Close to one gram. So the science says 1.6 grams per kg, which is 0.7 grams per pound. I believe if you want to age well, you're going to be closer to one gram per pound ideal body weight. But the statement that I'm making here is that we've had decades of misinformation and confusion. These guidelines have not changed. They came up with this hypothesis, this guy named Ansel Keys came up with this hypothesis that saturated fat caused heart disease. Saturated fat caused LDL to go up and it caused heart disease.

• 1:08:18Speaker 03

  The guidelines still exist with this foundation. So then they determined, well, 10% of the diet or less should be saturated fat. Which by definition, anything above saturated fat would be considered unhealthy.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Which means any animal food, if you look at the landscape and the guidelines, would be considered unhealthy. So, an egg with 18% saturated fat will never be considered healthy. So, we've created this construct, which is why I think we're hearing this, eat less animal products, because that's what we're hearing, which I'm hoping is going to change. Now, with the new administration, we have a real chance to change that, for the first time, I believe, ever. That narrative that was built has defined American eating.

• 1:09:18Speaker 03

  And one could argue that, hey, Americans don't follow the guidelines anyway, right? But guess who it affects? Anyone that receives federal funding. Our military, nursing homes, and schools.

• 1:09:34Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about HGH, testosterone hormones. What are your thoughts about that?

• 1:09:38Speaker 03

  I think that HGH, if prescribed appropriately, can be beneficial. I think you have to measure IGF-1 levels.

• 1:09:48Shawn Ryan?

  Do you feel like a lot of doctors push this stuff on you for the sale?

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  I think no good doctor would do that.

• 1:09:57Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't say, "No good doctor." Just, is it common? Hey, we need you to take this.

• 1:10:04Speaker 03

  I think...

• 1:10:05Shawn Ryan?

  Hey, we need you to take that.

• 1:10:07Speaker 03

  I think it would be very unethical. I mean, I can't speak for other physicians, but I know that my colleagues, physicians in my practice, the colleagues that I respect, they would never do that. Because it's unethical. You can't, you know, a doctor's first oath is to do no harm. Period, end of story. You know, I explained how rigorous training is. You don't do that because you're hoping to make a lot of money. Despite, I mean, that is not, you're not going into medicine because this is a financial thing. Like, it is, there are way other avenues, there are many other avenues, to probably do much better financially, without a ton of debt,

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  without all this stuff. People go into medicine, I believe, because they truly care about their fellow human.

• 1:11:05Speaker 03

  I do believe that. And so if there is a doctor that is pushing things on a patient because of a sale, then it is not the right doctor. And I will also tell you this, a doctor will go to find solutions for that patient. For example, compounding pharmacies. That's why I brought up Empower. Or, you know, pick your favorite compounding pharmacy that you know and trust. Their job is to make medications affordable. How do we make testosterone affordable? How do we make, I don't know, HGH affordable? How do you make Ozempic affordable?

• 1:11:46Shawn Ryan?

  What percentage of your, I mean, you deal with a lot of team guys.

• 1:11:50Speaker 03

  I deal with a lot of a lot of executives, a lot of moms, you know?

• 1:11:57Shawn Ryan?

  Do you see a lot of commonalities with, with?

• 1:12:00Speaker 03

  I do.

• 1:12:00Shawn Ryan?

  Team guys?

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  Yes, I do. I see a lot of commonalities within patients across the board.

• 1:12:06Shawn Ryan?

  What, what are some of the, what are some of the most common? What are, what are some of the commonalities?

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  Well, now, I have to, to clarify, there's not that many team guys in general.

• 1:12:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:18Speaker 03

  So the practice, while we service special operators and their families, we take care of a certain type of person. And that type of person is willing to do whatever it takes to get better. They are expecting more for themselves. They don't, you're, you're not coming into my practice because you want to feel average. That is, you're, you're, just don't. You are coming to me because you want to remove physical limitations to be the best version of yourself. Maybe you are someone with Lyme. Maybe you are someone with gastrointestinal problems. Maybe you are someone who wants hormone optimization because you want to feel better. I would say across the board for guys, let's say a middle-aged guy.

• 1:13:03Speaker 03

  Who is your audience, by the way, aside from everybody in the world?

• 1:13:06Shawn Ryan?

  Who's my audience?

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Shawn Ryan?

  My audience is but there's a, we have a huge

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  Variety.

• 1:13:17Shawn Ryan?

  Audience, obviously.

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:13:18Shawn Ryan?

  But I would say my audience is comprised of just a lot of people that are looking for

• 1:13:32Shawn Ryan?

  They just wanna know the truth about things. You know, I'm a very curious person. That's why I think this is gonna be a great interview. And, and I'm always digging for the truth. And, um, and I think, I think that, that my, my audience is also very, it's a very curious audience. They wanna know, they wanna know about things like what we're talking about right now. They wanna know, you know, how to find, cuz it's, it's really, it's, it's tough for, for people like me who don't have, I don't have knowledge in medicine, you know, other than what, other than basic trauma care that, you know, that I was taught in the teams.

• 1:14:14Shawn Ryan?

  But, but, you know, and it's, there's some good fucking salesmen out there, you know, and, and so, I wanna be able to sniff through the bullshit. And I know my audience wants to be able to sniff through the bullshit too. And so, and, and, and so that's why I'm asking these questions.

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're great questions. So I'm hoping that we're clearing things up for people.

• 1:14:38Shawn Ryan?

  We are. But it's, but it's tricky, you know, I mean, I mean, somebody can sound like they know exactly what they're talking about, especially in the medical field, because there, there's a lot of knowledge there, there's a lot of terminology that people aren't familiar with. And, and, and, and so people, it, it, with everything that happened in COVID, it created a lot of distrust in, in healthcare. And it caused people to go down rabbit holes. And now we see, you know, the stuff with seed oils, we see the stuff with what's in our food, how was it raised, one farm to table, the vaccination thing, there's, you know, huge controversy there.

• 1:15:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:23Shawn Ryan?

  And, and so, I think everybody just wants to know, who do we trust?

• 1:15:30Speaker 03

  So let me tell you, that is actually exactly why I started my podcast. My podcast doesn't have people that you know. My podcast has experts that have been in the trenches for 20 years. They can talk about seed oils. So seed oils, for example, is a really hot topic and there's influencers everywhere. But what is it when you actually examine the evidence? And who is the expert? Who is actually doing those studies? And how do we make sense of it? Those are the people that I bring on my podcast. Before we started, I actually, you'll see them in your email.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  I had, for example, the former president of the Lipid Association. His name is Kevin Mackey. You're not going to know him on social media, Dr. Kevin Mackey. But you will know that his science, he doesn't care what the answer is. He just wants to know. So we had this long conversation about seed oils. I said, Dr. Mackey, what is it? What's the truth? And he said, well, if you go back and you look at the overwhelming body of evidence, the overwhelming body of evidence will support that they are neutral. And I know that I'm, this is again, this is not my opinion. He said, they are overwhelmingly neutral, if not positive, when you replace for saturated fat.

• 1:16:58Speaker 03

  And I was like, well, how can that be? That seems crazy. And he said, well, the data isn't perfect, but this collection of data supports that. Again, why are we worried about seed oils? Because people are worried about inflammation. Inflammation is driven by overall dietary choices that are bad. Do you know the number one food consumed in the U.S.?

• 1:17:25Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 1:17:26Speaker 03

  Pizza. Do you know the number one?

• 1:17:30Shawn Ryan?

  You love pizza.

• 1:17:31Speaker 03

  Do you know the number one vegetable? The number one vegetable consumed in the U.S.?

• 1:17:36Shawn Ryan?

  Carrots.

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  Potato, in the form of potato chips. Do you know, this is my last, do you know? Do you know the number one fruit consumed in the U.S.? Think of the most carb-heavy fruit you would pick.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  Bananas.

• 1:17:56Shawn Ryan?

  That's what I was gonna say. All right.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:17:59Shawn Ryan?

  Is it bad?

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  No. It is not. Should our seed oils unnatural? Totally. Have we tripled their intake over that last handful of decades? Yes. Do we know that they are harmful? Well, they're usually omega sixes, so seed oils would be canola oil, anything that comes from a vegetable. Is the problem that we are eating them with pastries, baked goods, and fried foods? Is that the problem? Are we overheating and heating this substance multiple times?

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  And/or are we not balancing it with not enough omega-3 fatty acids? The data, again, data's not perfect. There's probably a lot of problems with it. But I emotionally want to believe that all seed oils are bad. Is that emotion backed by what the evidence says? It's not. Do I believe that highly processed foods are killing us? Yeah. Are we on a suicide diet? Totally.

• 1:19:12Shawn Ryan?

  You don't eat pizza?

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  I don't really like pizza.

• 1:19:15Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 1:19:17Speaker 03

  I don't really like pizza.

• 1:19:18Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  It's kinda gross.

• 1:19:19Shawn Ryan?

  We're gonna have to change the dinner reservation. No, I'm just kidding.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  No, you guys are definitely, we are definitely not taking me to pizza. I know for sure, I know for a fact. But, listen, I think that we have to understand that we are eating in terms of what is the dietary pattern? And when things... There's a lot of noise out there in the health and wellness space that makes it very confusing for people. And that noise creates distraction. That distraction allows for distrust, and it allows for people to be taken away from proper action. We can all agree that whole foods are probably best. We have an entire nation to feed. It, you know, are conventionally raised beef,

• 1:20:05Speaker 03

  is that just as healthy as grass-fed beef? I mean, if my choice was I'm gonna eat convention or organic, or I'm gonna eat, I don't know, a pastry because it's not organically raised meat, I'm gonna eat conventional meat. Is conventional meat tested before it goes on market? Yes. Is it, you know, are there a ton of antibiotics? There can't be detectable limits of this stuff in beef. But beef also can't defend itself. Beef is a commodity.

• 1:20:43Speaker 03

  Red meat is a commodity. And what do I mean by commodity? Well, you have, if I say the other white meat, what do you say?

• 1:20:52Shawn Ryan?

  The other white meat?

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:54Shawn Ryan?

  Chicken?

• 1:20:55Speaker 03

  Well, you'd probably say pork.

• 1:20:56Shawn Ryan?

  Pork?

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. If I say, does a body good, what am I talking about?

• 1:21:00Shawn Ryan?

  Milk.

• 1:21:01Speaker 03

  Exactly. If I say, blank, what's for dinner? What do you say? Say beef.

• 1:21:07Shawn Ryan?

  Beef.

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  So this is an example of a commodity. Commodities under the monitors, under the umbrella of the USDA. USDA has very strict regulations. These commodities have a, they have a collective marketing budget of $750 million. That was the last number that I looked at. They are very restricted about what they can say. And where am I going with this? I'm gonna get there. $750 million for all these commodities. Dairy, pork, almonds, probably throw almonds as a commodity in there. Versus, now, they can only say they're part of a healthy diet. This is a good source of B vitamins.

• 1:21:50Speaker 03

  Versus, anything that is a processed food is under the FTC.

• 1:21:55Speaker 03

  PepsiCo, that marketing budget is $2 billion. That's one company.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  $2 billion.

• 1:22:02Shawn Ryan?

  Their marketing budget?

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  Correct. Is $2 billion. All of the commodities, all of these whole foods alone. These foods that are coming from ranchers, whether it's organic, whether it's conventional, however they're doing it. They pool their money together in this checkoff. Their collective marketing budget is $750 million. All together.

• 1:22:22Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:22:25Speaker 03

  Fake meat can say and create rhetoric and narrative to say, "Red meat is killing the planet." Almond juice, almond juice can say, "This is, has a better carbon footprint than milk." The commodities, which is why you see such a vast difference in what you're hearing, commodities cannot defend themselves. They cannot say, because of the restrictions, they cannot say, "Actually, no, fake meat's not good for you. We are a much better source of protein." They cannot be disparaging against any other product. What does that mean for the consumer? When an anti-animal narrative, which is fed by, as you can guess, the guys with a ton of money and a machine,

• 1:23:10Speaker 03

  they can say whatever they want. And so then, the American public doesn't know what to think, what to believe, or how to eat. And again, that's a huge problem. So we have to go back to the fundamentals. The fundamentals are good, solid nutrition, which again, these guidelines haven't been updated in, I don't know, 50 years. You know, we were chatting, "Why did you write a book?" I wrote my book for that reason. And there was a moment that I knew I had to do it. Do you want to know what that is?

• 1:23:50Shawn Ryan?

  What is it?

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  I was in fellowship, just coming out of fellowship, and I had not been on social media at all. During my time at Wash U, I was in a geriatric fellowship. So I did combined nutritional research in geriatrics. Have you ever been in a nursing home?

• 1:24:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  Pretty depressing, right?

• 1:24:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:24:13Speaker 03

  You never, you do never want to end up there, right?

• 1:24:16Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  Part of my job was to take care of these patients. On the weekends, I'd around at the nursing home. Broken hip, percentage of those people are, first of all, they're never going to survive. Their quality of life is over. And we know that their mortality rate is extremely high within the next six months to a year. What did they lack? Muscle. They weren't training, they lacked muscle. They go to the doctor, the doctor says, you need to cut back on your cholesterol. Stop eating red meat. Which, by the way, they took cholesterol out of the guidelines in 2015. That was taken out of the dietary guidelines. In 2015.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  So I wrote this book because when I was on social media and seeing these things, people were talking about how we should go more plant-based. The American diet is 70% already plant-based. Whether it comes from processed seed oils, processed whatever. We are not aging well. And I'm like, well, all this information, they're talking about red meat and cancer, that's not true. Talking about all this stuff, how protein is bad for the kidneys, how, you know, animal protein is going to raise cholesterol, all of this stuff, when all of this stuff was not true. So you asked me, you know, did I write my book?

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  I wrote my book, and that's exactly why. Yeah, good reason. Because how am I going to protect people? So I wrote this book, Forever Strong, I didn't call it Marginally Weak. It's a joke, it's okay. My mom joke. But it's the people in the middle that I'm worried about. It's the people that have a chance to be able to actually change the trajectory of their life. By the time you're in a nursing home, I don't want to say it's too late, but, I mean, that's a tough place to start. Skirting the line, huh?

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  And I worry about our kids.

• 1:26:28Shawn Ryan?

  Me too.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  This idea that, have you heard that exercise isn't good for our kids?

• 1:26:35Speaker 03

  They shouldn't be lifting weights, have you heard that?

• 1:26:36Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, they took PE out of classrooms, right?

• 1:26:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:39Shawn Ryan?

  Out of school.

• 1:26:42Shawn Ryan?

  So let's talk, you know, you're big on longevity.

• 1:26:47Shawn Ryan?

  I watched, there was a docu-series I saw, I think it was How to Live to 100, and this guy went around. Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  Oh, was this, um, this wasn't the blue zones, right?

• 1:26:55Shawn Ryan?

  It was.

• 1:26:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:26:56Shawn Ryan?

  It was the blue zones.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  The blue zones, there's a lot of problems with the blue zones.

• 1:27:00Shawn Ryan?

  Why's that?

• 1:27:00Speaker 03

  Because the blue zones are hand-selected places, which by the way, the blue zones, which they, depending on where it is, um, have some of the highest poverty rates, highest level of smoking, lowest level of education, and income.

• 1:27:15Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:27:16Speaker 03

  It's not, you can't pick areas and say, this is what's going to make you live to 100. Right? It is, um, a culmination of how you do your life. And that doesn't necessarily translate to us in the US.

• 1:27:33Speaker 03

  Unless you're like my dad in Ecuador, who's walking four hours, um, to go from somewhere to the grocery store. These blue zones, this is, there are a lot of issues with that.

• 1:27:46Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. Well, how do we live to 100?

• 1:27:49Speaker 03

  Well, be strong as hell. The stronger you are,

• 1:27:55Speaker 03

  the more robust you are, the more muscle mass you have, the longer you're gonna live. And God forbid you get any of those things that we're talking about, cancer, fall, the greater your survivability.

• 1:28:07Speaker 03

  We don't have an obesity problem.

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  We got the problem wrong. Just like we got the problem with testosterone and prostate. Just like, you know, we've gotten the problem wrong with, I don't know, you name it.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  We have the problem wrong with obesity. It's just a symptom of unhealthy skeletal muscle. You want to live to 100? Be as strong as you can for as long as you can. Have as much muscle mass as you can.

• 1:28:34Shawn Ryan?

  How many hours a day do you contribute to your fitness?

• 1:28:38Speaker 03

  Less than one hour.

• 1:28:39Shawn Ryan?

  Less than one hour? What do you do?

• 1:28:42Speaker 03

  Three days a week.

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  Three to four days a week. I train. I work with my trainer, Carlos Mata. He's amazing. I should just call him the Punisher. Three days a week. What do we do? We do heavy sled pushes. We do compound movements. We do kettlebell swings. We do bag tosses. We do rope pulls. We do isolations. We do resistance training. We do it in a form of progressive overload. Meaning, my goal is to get stronger and better. I do that three to four days a week. But the other days, I am active. You see how much I'm moving now? I should sit on my hands. Probably a terrible interview. I'm sorry, guys. But I move.

• 1:29:28Speaker 03

  I'll put a weight vest on and I'll walk around. Take calls while I'm on a treadmill. Wear a weight vest, walking, rucksack. With my kids, we don't do any electronics.

• 1:29:40Shawn Ryan?

  None.

• 1:29:42Speaker 03

  Terrible idea. It's a terrible idea. I would have a lot more time if I used electronics with them. But we don't. And what I've done is I build into my life, activity. It's not, do I train three to four days a week for an hour? Yeah, I do. That's four hours a week.

• 1:30:02Speaker 03

  It's activity during the day. I hate this term, exercise snacks. It's terrible. But it's this physical movement that you put in throughout your day. I will tell you something else. Zone two, have you heard of zone two?

• 1:30:13Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 1:30:14Speaker 03

  It's having its moment, that slow, steady-state cardio. It's having its moment. I don't have time for that. Do you have time for that?

• 1:30:20Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 1:30:22Speaker 03

  So I think as a society, we have to recognize there's multiple ways to get to an endpoint. The less time you have to train, the more intense it has to be. You do not have to spend hours doing zone two cardio. We tend to not like to get really uncomfortable and breathe heavy and, you know, when shit sucks. It's exactly what we should do. You get away with 20 minutes a week of that, and you'll still have longevity benefits.

• 1:30:48Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. So to live to 100, it's just exercise?

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  Body composition. Body composition.

• 1:30:57Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:30:58Speaker 03

  I don't want you doing a bunch of marathons like my husband. You have to be strong. You have to lift weights. Does diet play a role? Yeah, we've got micronutrients that we need, not just the macronutrients. You know, we have nutrients of concern like iron, zinc, selenium, B12 for brain function. You need all those things too. But if you do not move and move in a meaningful way, then your capacity to move reduces. So you have to become very intelligent about the ways in which you're pushing forward. I think the worst thing that can happen to someone is they get injured. Shoulder injury, back injury. How do you facilitate a life

• 1:31:42Speaker 03

  that allows for maximum movement in a meaningful way for outcomes, right? You want to be able to lift your kids over your head when you're 75. So these are the things that we have to do. You have to train in a meaningful way with resistance training. There's no, there's, I'm sorry, walking is not going to do that for you, my friend. It's not. You have to lift things. Do you have to do some kind of high-intensity training once a week? I think that you should, unless you're just going to do zone two, which will take hours.

• 1:32:20Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, I know what you're saying works because um, I have a good friend, also my attorney, I don't want to say his name because I don't want to, you know, but, but he took you on, or you took him on as a client, and I just saw him a couple of weeks ago, he looks amazing.

• 1:32:38Speaker 03

  Oh, that's right, so Katie, someone messaged me, Katie, your wife messaged me. She didn't say who, but she was like, oh, I just heard.

• 1:32:45Shawn Ryan?

  He told me it was starting with you. When now, I think when we scheduled the podcast and I saw him and I was like, holy shit, man, you look fucking amazing. And, uh, and he said, yeah, I feel great. Now, my wife, I don't know if she's seeing you yet or not, but uh, if she's not, uh, she probably will be soon because he told me that that was going to happen, but I've seen, I've seen, I've seen your work and uh, in person, and it looks amazing, so, so, let's, let's keep going. How do we live to 100? I mean, what about supplements? So, I mean, a lot of people are saying that, you know, fruit, vegetables, we already

• 1:33:29Shawn Ryan?

  kind of touched on the meat, but the pesticides and they don't have near the nutrients that they used to have 50 plus years ago, or 20 plus years ago, it seems like it just keeps diminishing more and more. And so, a lot of people are turning to supplements, you know, greens, different multivitamins, whatever, fill in the blank. In, in, from what I've heard about you, you don't, it sounds like you don't think that replacing food with supplements is necessarily the best idea.

• 1:34:01Speaker 03

  Here's what I think. I, I believe everything that you're saying in terms of there are changes in soil, the way in which our fruits and vegetables are, they're not what they used to be. If you've ever had a natural blueberry or a strawberry, they don't taste the way that ours do. So, they are cultivated to be significantly sweeter. We also pick food and then it sits and then it's scent and it, it respires, it loses its nutrients. All of that is true. Whole foods are ideal. Are whole foods enough? No, I don't believe whole foods enough. Do I believe in supplementation? I absolutely do believe in supplementation. But how do I think about it?

• 1:34:44Speaker 03

  I think the best diet is a diet where it's both plant and animals. Whole foods diet, plant and animals, fruits and vegetables. Lean red meats. If you want to throw some salmon, organ meats. Kind of gross, I hide them in my kids' food. It's amazing. I even hide them in my husband's food. Do not.

• 1:35:04Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean, organ meats?

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  Liver.

• 1:35:06Shawn Ryan?

  Liver.

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  That was my child's, that was my daughter's first food.

• 1:35:10Shawn Ryan?

  Liver?

• 1:35:10Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:11Shawn Ryan?

  What's the benefits of liver?

• 1:35:12Speaker 03

  It is unbelievably rich in iron, fat soluble vitamins. There's no replacement for it. There's retinol, there's no replacement. There's vitamin A, vitamin E, vitamin D. Like, there's no replacement for liver.

• 1:35:28Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of liver?

• 1:35:30Speaker 03

  Cow liver, chicken liver.

• 1:35:31Shawn Ryan?

  Doesn't matter.

• 1:35:33Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, it's an acquired taste. But you don't eat a ton of it. You can cook it in a burger. Just a little bit. Maybe that was my daughter's first food. When you think about supplementation, it's what is it that you're potentially missing? I don't eat a ton of vegetables, so I use greens. I use green powder. I use red powder. I use, um, things that are rich in phytonutrients and colors. Do you use a red powder, green powder? You should, we will, I'll fix that.

• 1:36:16Shawn Ryan?

  I, I have, I mean, I go, I shouldn't say no. I go, here's, here's the thing. Here's, I'm just gonna be 100% honest and I'm, I'm, I still fucking got me bears. But, um.

• 1:36:28Speaker 03

  Oh, wait, wasn't I supposed to get a present?

• 1:36:30Shawn Ryan?

  I felt bad, I, do you want some?

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  No, what is it? Is it, it's not CBD gummy bears, is it?

• 1:36:35Shawn Ryan?

  No, they're just gummy bears.

• 1:36:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, where are my gummy bears?

• 1:36:37Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, I did, I was embarrassed to give you some.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  I've watched your show so many times.

• 1:36:41Shawn Ryan?

  I thought you would yell at.

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  So, listen, I've watched your show so many times and you know what you always start out the show with? The hand taking, you go, everybody gets a gift.

• 1:36:48Shawn Ryan?

  The doctors don't get the gummy bears.

• 1:36:51Speaker 03

  I watched your, wait, I watched Duckworth, was that her name? Duckworth, what was her name, who was doing the remote viewing?

• 1:36:57Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:57Speaker 03

  It was amazing. She got gummy bears.

• 1:36:59Shawn Ryan?

  Doctors don't get gummy bears, I'm embarrassed. We'll take a break, when I, when we come back, I'm gonna give you some gummy bears.

• 1:37:05Speaker 03

  Where's my present?

• 1:37:06Shawn Ryan?

  You can put them, you can put them up there as a gift. But, uh, but, um, uh, man, now I just lost my train of thought.

• 1:37:14Speaker 03

  We were, we were talking-

• 1:37:15Shawn Ryan?

  Now I feel bad.

• 1:37:16Speaker 03

  No, no, wait, we were talking about gummy bears. Um, we were talking-

• 1:37:20Shawn Ryan?

  We're talking about, no, we were talking about-

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  Supplements, this is important.

• 1:37:23Shawn Ryan?

  And so, my thing is, I'm coming out with a supplement too.

• 1:37:28Speaker 03

  Amazing, what, what are you making?

• 1:37:29Shawn Ryan?

  It's gonna be 2,000mg of cordyceps, 2,000-

• 1:37:33Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 1:37:34Shawn Ryan?

  -mg of lion's mane mushroom.

• 1:37:36Speaker 03

  I love mushrooms.

• 1:37:37Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, and-

• 1:37:39Speaker 03

  It's an nootropic.

• 1:37:39Shawn Ryan?

  We're still, yep, we're still perfecting it, but it was a huge, uh, discussion with my business partner. He wanted another thing to mix, we're gonna do the mix, but I was like, look, man, I have to do something that's fucking easy. Because, just, I mean, you're running three businesses, you understand being busy. I'm already overwhelmed as it is. Uh, my, I can't even believe I'm sitting, I have a pillbox, you know, that has all my, my stuff in there, my fish oil, my multivitamin, my, what, K3?

• 1:38:13Speaker 03

  Vitamin D.

• 1:38:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that stuff, it's got a bunch of stuff in it. But, what I, I just don't have time to-

• 1:38:21Speaker 03

  Has to be easy.

• 1:38:22Shawn Ryan?

  And I don't, you know, I don't, alright, let's do the red powder. Alright, let's do the green powder, mix it up. Let's do the mushroom supplement, mix it up. Like, that's like 30 minutes-

• 1:38:34Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 1:38:35Shawn Ryan?

  -of just mixing all these damn supplements and, and putting them in. So this, what we did was, I was like, it has, it has to be something easy, whether it's a shot or, I don't know. So we're, we're, it's an eyedropper thing, it's a, you know, the dropper thing, you just-

• 1:38:50Speaker 03

  I, so, I think those are amazing.

• 1:38:52Shawn Ryan?

  But, that's my, that's, that's, and then there's the protein powder. And then there's the, you know, and so what I'm saying-

• 1:39:00Speaker 03

  Eyedropper of mushroom extract in the protein powder.

• 1:39:03Shawn Ryan?

  Well, you, so you see what I'm saying though, like, it's become-

• 1:39:09Shawn Ryan?

  It's just not the most convenient thing. And I'm always looking for convenience. And then that creates 50 dishes that you have to clean and

• 1:39:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:18Shawn Ryan?

  wash and run through the dishwasher. And I'm like, man, like, I just, I don't want to do all that stuff. I just want, can we just do one thing here that's just bam, done? Do it on the fly?

• 1:39:29Speaker 03

  Smart.

• 1:39:29Shawn Ryan?

  And it doesn't take any time. And so that's why we came out the, we're coming out with the, with the, with the eyedropper supplement. Cause it's so convenient.

• 1:39:38Speaker 03

  That's exciting.

• 1:39:40Shawn Ryan?

  But, yeah, if, if I had one, I'd give one to you right now. I'll send you some when we, when we get them.

• 1:39:46Speaker 03

  I'm gonna hold you to it and gummy bears.

• 1:39:48Shawn Ryan?

  But, and gummy bears. But that's, that's the thing with the supplements. And, um, and so is that, is that what you do? Do you mix the reds and then you mix the greens?

• 1:39:59Speaker 03

  I'll tell you exactly, I'll tell you exactly what I'm doing these days. I start my morning with, have you ever heard of strong coffee?

• 1:40:07Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  Amazing. So I have strong coffee, which has collagen, L-theanine in it. I put an extra scoop of collagen. If you wanna know all, if you wanna know exactly what I'm taking, I will tell you.

• 1:40:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, let's hear it.

• 1:40:21Speaker 03

  Do you know, um, Bubz, Glenn Doherty's foundation?

• 1:40:23Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, I love Bubz. I take Bubz.

• 1:40:25Speaker 03

  Okay, so a scoop of Bubz. And then I use, I have a very small scooper of Amra, which is colostrum. That is my first thing that I take. I'm winning. I'm already winning. I have extra collagen, extra vitamins, all of this stuff in the shake. I go train and looking at me crazy, not complicated. Three to four days a week, I might slam a protein shake. I do use protein shake. I use, um, I'm on my AG1 shake. Have you tried AG1?

• 1:40:57Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  It's amazing. I actually mix it together with vanilla protein powder. I don't care. Tastes amazing. Fine. I take something called Urolithin A.

• 1:41:08Shawn Ryan?

  What is it?

• 1:41:09Speaker 03

  Urolithin A.

• 1:41:09Shawn Ryan?

  What's that?

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  The company called Mitopure. It says Urolithin A. It is a postbiotic.

• 1:41:16Speaker 03

  It is very good for mitochondrial function. It has a lot of good data, has over a decade of data. Take a thousand milligrams of that, I should probably break it up. I take fish oil, I have like a little pack. It has fish oil, magnesium zinc. Take that with my shake. I'm like, good to go. That is so easy.

• 1:41:37Shawn Ryan?

  Let's go back, the Arma, the colostrum stuff.

• 1:41:40Speaker 03

  It's great for gut health.

• 1:41:41Shawn Ryan?

  Just interviewed Garek Brekka, and he wants me to take that. He did the whole gene test thing on me, we went through it on the show. What is, what's the deal with colostrum?

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  So colostrum is mother's milk. So it's the stuff from mother's milk. There is a ton of nutrients and bioactive ingredients in it. If you get a company where the colostrum is not overheated and killed, then you have something that has a ton of immunoglobulins and these, you know, we think about-

• 1:42:03Shawn Ryan?

  A ton of what?

• 1:42:04Speaker 03

  Immunoglobulins and-

• 1:42:05Shawn Ryan?

  What is that?

• 1:42:06Speaker 03

  Proteins. So things that are really good for the immune system in the body. The things that we were built on. This is amazing.

• 1:42:13Shawn Ryan?

  What does it do for you?

• 1:42:14Speaker 03

  Well, it's, there's some great data for gut health for me, and that's why I use it. I was having some weird, um, probably from my nicotine gum. Can't believe I'm saying this on the show. But, um, probably from chewing nicotine gum, it affected my, you're laughing. I've never talked this much on a podcast. I'm sure all your guests-

• 1:42:32Shawn Ryan?

  Welcome to the show.

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  Do all, do all, do all your guests do that?

• 1:42:35Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:36Speaker 03

  I don't think I've ever talked this much. Um, my husband might disagree, but the, um, so my, I was getting like weird tingling on my tongue. It was just getting very sensitive and I think that the nicotine was affecting the mucosal integrity. So I was like, well, I gotta fix this, this is unacceptable. So that's why I started using Arma, and it has absolutely helped. But I use it for gut health.

• 1:43:03Shawn Ryan?

  Gut health. What's the importance of gut health?

• 1:43:06Speaker 03

  It's everything. It's your interface with the outside world. You know, we talked about nutrition, but you're only as good as what you absorb. You can eat perfectly, but if you do not have good gut integrity, which is basically the way in which the lining is intact, the way in which the mucosal is intact, it doesn't matter what you eat, it matters what you absorb.

• 1:43:27Shawn Ryan?

  So do you test for that?

• 1:43:28Speaker 03

  Of course I test for it.

• 1:43:29Shawn Ryan?

  How do you do that? Is it the same thing, the stool samples and stuff?

• 1:43:32Speaker 03

  So we do stool samples. We look at proteins like zonulin, calprotectin, yeah, various markers. And then you can see a pattern in the blood work. If someone is not absorbing their nutrients, there's a multitude of ways to get an answer. And it has to check out, you know?

• 1:43:51Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. So, so is it?

• 1:43:56Speaker 03

  Gary probably also wanted you to take some B vitamins. He probably wanted you to take some methylated B vitamin complex. I'm guessing, do you remember?

• 1:44:08Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I can't remember all of them.

• 1:44:10Speaker 03

  So the other supplement, so colostrum is great. I think that there's great benefit to collagen. Collagen does have a protein score of zero, though. People will say, I get protein from collagen. That is not, it's an incomplete protein. Collagen does nothing for muscle health, but for skin integrity, I think that there's good evidence. I think that we don't know exactly all of what collagen's benefits are yet, because it's, it's difficult to test. But I do think that there's definitely benefits for gut, for hair, for skin and nails.

• 1:44:51Speaker 03

  And then a red, green powder, whatever you choose. I've been on AG1 kick. My mom actually got me on it because she was obsessed with it. It's like a multivitamin. So it's not really a green powder. It's this multivitamin, has a whole bunch of stuff in it. Then it's a, we have to think of it as a food matrix. So the foods that we eat, I think old school days or bodybuilding type stuff, it's your carbohydrates, fats and proteins. The new school of thinking is really the food matrix. What is within a food that makes it comprehensive? And that's why I think AG1 is a good product. It's comprehensive. It's a, it's a food matrix. Same with the colostrum. It's not an isolated vitamin C.

• 1:45:38Speaker 03

  And that's where I think the next iteration of supplements are actually going, is this idea of how do we recreate as much as possible a natural whole food matrix?

• 1:45:50Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting, interesting.

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  Creatine, all, every teen guy should be on creatine. 12 grams for the brain.

• 1:45:57Shawn Ryan?

  For the brain? I've not heard this before.

• 1:46:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:01Shawn Ryan?

  Why, what?

• 1:46:02Speaker 03

  10 to 12, there's some great evidence that creatine can help, especially as individuals are aging with cognition. I don't know the mechanism of action, but the data that I'm seeing in terms of cognition and memory, I think that's exciting.

• 1:46:19Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, I want to talk about-

• 1:46:23Speaker 03

  Gummy bears?

• 1:46:24Shawn Ryan?

  And we'll give you some gummy bears.

• 1:47:08Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Gabrielle, we're back from the break. We're on the road to 100, but, you know, we had a conversation earlier, and I actually wanted to, about podcasting, and then you brought up your podcast on the show in the interview, and you had mentioned that you were interviewing people that nobody had ever heard of. And for whatever it's worth, that's what I do, is I find people that nobody's ever heard of, and I bring their story or what they're saying to light. And I think that's really what sets it apart. And I think, I don't know, I think if you continue down that road and just stick with what you're interested in, they don't have to have the big name behind them, I think you're gonna see a lot of success. I know

• 1:47:51Shawn Ryan?

  you're already having a lot of success. I mean, what did, did you say you're number three in health?

• 1:47:55Speaker 03

  In, in medicine.

• 1:47:56Shawn Ryan?

  In medicine? That's amazing. So, congratulations on that.

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thanks, my friend.

• 1:48:01Shawn Ryan?

  And, um, and...

• 1:48:04Speaker 03

  We're gonna live to a hundred.

• 1:48:06Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody gets a present on the show.

• 1:48:08Speaker 03

  Oh, and so let's tell them. So, obviously, you didn't edit it out.

• 1:48:11Shawn Ryan?

  You're the only doctor.

• 1:48:12Speaker 03

  But I was the only do- I was the only-

• 1:48:14Shawn Ryan?

  You're the only doctor, I believe, that I'm giving gummy bears to.

• 1:48:17Speaker 03

  So Andrew and Gary, no one ever got these?

• 1:48:20Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, I'm embarrassed to give them to the doctor. It's just junk food. So...

• 1:48:25Speaker 03

  Um, they will definitely be eaten. I don't, and I, I don't know where they're going, but they're definitely gonna be eaten.

• 1:48:30Shawn Ryan?

  Well, there's no collagen protein, or Arma, or anything like that, and they're basically just a sugar pill.

• 1:48:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:48:36Shawn Ryan?

  Or what we call them, you know, in the teams, fat pills.

• 1:48:39Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm grateful. I, I have watched enough of your podcasts. I was a little, I was surprised. I didn't get my bag.

• 1:48:46Shawn Ryan?

  Now I feel bad. I feel bad now. But that's, that's all it is.

• 1:48:50Speaker 03

  Well, I got two bags. Most people only get one.

• 1:48:52Shawn Ryan?

  I'm so conscious about giving sugar to doctors. So, but, uh, there you go.

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:48:58Shawn Ryan?

  There you go, the gummy bears.

• 1:49:00Speaker 03

  I'm so excited.

• 1:49:01Shawn Ryan?

  They're sold out online right now.

• 1:49:02Speaker 03

  I'm auctioning them. If you guys want them, I'm auctioning them.

• 1:49:07Shawn Ryan?

  Where are you gonna auction them?

• 1:49:08Speaker 03

  Ebay.

• 1:49:09Shawn Ryan?

  Nice, nice.

• 1:49:10Speaker 03

  My Instagram. I'm gonna, I'm gonna auction them. I bet you they get sold.

• 1:49:14Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet they do, too. But, uh, but, um-

• 1:49:18Speaker 03

  Supplements, supplements.

• 1:49:19Shawn Ryan?

  Supplements. Well, hold on. The road to a hundred.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:22Shawn Ryan?

  And so where we left off, I wanted to talk to you about, we talked about supplements, we talked about hormones, we talked about a whole bunch of stuff. Let's talk about sleep.

• 1:49:30Speaker 03

  I'm not great at it. You?

• 1:49:33Shawn Ryan?

  Me? I'm horrible at sleep.

• 1:49:34Speaker 03

  It's horrible. We are both gonna have dementia.

• 1:49:38Shawn Ryan?

  I don't wanna hear that.

• 1:49:38Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, me neither. But, sleep is, we should also backtrack. This idea of living to a hundred. We don't wanna live old and decrepit. It's all about the quality of how we wanna go out. Right? The, I, the longevity space, I feel, oftentimes tries to not acknowledge the inevitable.

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  It is the thing that no one gets away from. It's coming for all of us.

• 1:50:11Shawn Ryan?

  You know, my great grandma lived to 102 years old. And she was sharp as a tack until the last week and a half. And we all thought she was going crazy. Not really crazy, but I mean, she's 102 and she's dying. And she started seeing, she started seeing angels and people that she knew. And she was talking to things that none of us could see. And, you know, now, after, you know, we kind of talked a little bit about that subject before we interviewed here, but now I think we're the dumb asses that didn't know what was going on.

• 1:50:52Shawn Ryan?

  I think maybe she wasn't crazy and all of those entities and spirits or angels or whatever they were, relatives of hers, they probably were there welcoming. It was a welcoming party into the next, into the next cycle of life.

• 1:51:10Speaker 03

  It's wild. I, I do think it's, I mean, I don't know if you're afraid of death or the end, but it is, no, I don't know. I think that when we have young kids, we don't look forward to that. Before, I would argue that you feel like you have less to lose. Once you have children, it's, it layers on a whole other level of vulnerability.

• 1:51:36Shawn Ryan?

  It, I get, I have more of a fear of leaving my kids behind in this atrocious of the world than I do of dying. But what I do worry about with dying is I want to be able to go out like, like my great grandma or like, you know, we were talking about some of the, some of the stuff that's in the studio here, like that sword, Don Graves, 99 years old. He was 98 when I interviewed him. Guy was like.

• 1:52:08Shawn Ryan?

  Just like we're talking right now, you know, totally with it, remembers every little detail. I mean, super sharp, uh, human being. Still that way, I still talk to him every once in a while, but that's how I wanna go, whether that's at whatever age, you know, and, um, and so, but anyways, let's move, let's move to sleep.

• 1:52:30Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:52:31Shawn Ryan?

  How much sleep do we need?

• 1:52:33Speaker 03

  You probably, there are a few genetic outliers that can get away with four hours of sleep. And, um, I, I think that that is genetic. And they don't feel tired, they roll like that. Uh, the rest of us, and by the way, do you know the operative community self-selects for those people?

• 1:52:53Shawn Ryan?

  No, I didn't. How do they do that?

• 1:52:54Speaker 03

  Fascinating. Um, well, those are the ones that can complete training and remain robust. I had a, um, a sleep neuroscientist on my podcast. She is still active duty. And that was one of the, the topics that we covered that, you know, in terms of how much sleep we need, the average person probably needs seven, eight hours. There's a range, whether it's six to eight. And then there's a handful of people that function amazing because of a genetic mutation on four or so hours, and it doesn't seem to have the negative implications.

• 1:53:32Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 1:53:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're probably one of those people.

• 1:53:36Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that makes me happy to hear, you know, cuz I can't sleep. And, um, it's getting better. I started these peptide things with our mutual friend, Conover. And, uh,

• 1:53:47Speaker 03

  Delta sleep peptide?

• 1:53:50Shawn Ryan?

  Don't know, but it's a peptide.

• 1:53:54Speaker 03

  And it works and you sleep.

• 1:53:55Shawn Ryan?

  But, uh, yeah, but I still, I still wake up though. I wake up at like 2:00 AM, damn near on the dot, every night. And, uh, you know, I've, I've always had this and I was just, I did, trained my mind to think, actually, Sean, this is a blessing that you're not sleeping cuz you can get that much more work done. And you just don't need sleep like everybody else. But then I see these damn things on social media. I saw one the other day that showed this person that looked horrible, horrible health, and I was like, this is what six hours of sleep will do for you. And I'm like, holy shit, I gotta.

• 1:54:29Speaker 03

  What do we know about the science? We know that sleep is critical. It's the time that our brain processes. It is also the time where it cleans itself. One of the risk factors of dementia is not sleeping. Unfortunately, you know, I say this doesn't mean that I'm good at it. Deep sleep, sleep is critical for memory. If you are not sleeping well, the body doesn't seem to recover in all aspects. And I'm not talking about from training. But we know that when you lose sleep, don't sleep, it can affect metabolism. I remember when I was doing the 24-hour night shifts, I put up, this, I sound like a total nerd, but I put a glucose monitor on to measure my blood sugar.

• 1:55:11Speaker 03

  And the nights where I wasn't sleeping, my blood sugar was through the roof. Those things over time, one night, two nights, here and there of impaired sleeps, probably not a problem. But those lifetime habits, and we live in a society where I'll sleep when I'm dead, is a thing. It is important, but you have to understand you may be a person who doesn't require as much sleep as the next person. That is true. But it's critical. I mean, when I was screening patients for dementia, one of the things that we always asked was, how much sleep? You want to know what else affects sleep?

• 1:55:53Shawn Ryan?

  Good thing we're on nicotine.

• 1:55:56Speaker 03

  I think I'm on nicotine and caffeine. I mean, but also, what is the reality of it? Do your kids, do your kids sleep in your bed?

• 1:56:05Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 1:56:06Speaker 03

  I can't get my kids out of my bed.

• 1:56:07Shawn Ryan?

  We moved them out at eight weeks. My wife was adamant about that.

• 1:56:11Speaker 03

  So I've been trying, three and five. Those kids will not sleep in their own bed.

• 1:56:18Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 1:56:19Speaker 03

  I don't know. The last, the last night I had a good night's sleep is when, when I was here.

• 1:56:25Speaker 03

  But all kidding aside, I think a lot-

• 1:56:27Shawn Ryan?

  Your kids sleep in bed with you guys?

• 1:56:29Speaker 03

  Oh my god, I cannot get them, yes. And I move them-

• 1:56:32Shawn Ryan?

  Doesn't that destroy your sex life?

• 1:56:34Speaker 03

  Well, my husband's creative, so-

• 1:56:36Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, alright.

• 1:56:37Speaker 03

  He'll find a way, it doesn't matter.

• 1:56:38Shawn Ryan?

  Alright.

• 1:56:39Speaker 03

  Don't worry. Oh my god.

• 1:56:43Shawn Ryan?

  Right here?

• 1:56:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. The laundry room? Okay.

• 1:56:47Shawn Ryan?

  How about sex? What about that on the road to 100?

• 1:56:50Speaker 03

  Very important. Very important. Sex organs, uh, while smooth muscle, they're still a muscle. Sex, life, is a barometer to overall health. And again, I'd mentioned, um, Dr. Mohit Karra, he created this term called sex span. So basically, this idea of your lifespan, health span. I believe in muscle span. So muscle is the length of time you live with healthy skeletal muscle, which by the way, I think trumps all of it. He created this idea of sex span. And that for men, it is the ultimate barometer for cardiovascular health, for vascular health, for metabolic health.

• 1:57:31Speaker 03

  And for women, it's this funny thing because women's sex drive seems to change as they age. And the tissue can atrophy. So we talked about hormone replacement, we didn't talk about women. I believe very strongly in hormone replacement for women to maintain sex drive and also protect the tissue, the vaginal tissue, it'll atrophy.

• 1:57:55Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:57:55Speaker 03

  So basically, if you want to live to 100, have a lot of sex. It can be in the laundry room. Sleep. Eat your dietary protein. Get Sean's gummies.

• 1:58:07Shawn Ryan?

  But there we go.

• 1:58:07Speaker 03

  Did I miss anything?

• 1:58:09Shawn Ryan?

  How much sex would we be having?

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  There is no number. But I'll give you my personal opinion. Personally, it's probably close to every day, which seems like a lot of sex. Because we're animals. Doesn't it seem like a lot?

• 1:58:26Shawn Ryan?

  Sounds good to me.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  It seems like a lot, but, um, I think that a healthy relationship would be at least a couple times a week. I, I mean, you ha- We are animals. We're very domesticated, but we are animals.

• 1:58:41Speaker 03

  And I think that it has overall effect on mood, oxytocin production, which is that connection hormone.

• 1:58:48Shawn Ryan?

  Oxytocin?

• 1:58:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Shawn Ryan?

  Connection hormone?

• 1:58:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. So when you breastfeed and there's that milk letdown, we talked about colostrum, that mother's milk, it is released. One way it's released is through oxytocin. And oxytocin is a neurochemical that is released when you feel close and when you hug. It's what they call the love hormone, the happy hormone.

• 1:59:11Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:59:12Speaker 03

  You can also intranasally take it, by the way. We prescribe that in our practice for mothers that are lactating.

• 1:59:23Shawn Ryan?

  I think I'd rather just have sex than the nasal thing.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably. Probably. But, you know, having sex while you're pregnant or breastfeeding is not as fun potentially, but fair.

• 1:59:34Shawn Ryan?

  I got another question. Kind of uncomfortable, but I'm, whatever, I'm gonna ask that. What about, is there a difference between masturbation and sex when it comes to longevity?

• 1:59:44Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:59:45Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  I don't know the answer, but I do think that there is something in relationship with the other person. But also, and I'm just taking a stab at this, probably the flora, the mucosa of two partners.

• 2:00:00Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:00:01Speaker 03

  Again, I'm not an expert in this sexual flora area, but if I was a betting woman, I would say that as natural as we can get, we'll help optimize our life. The other thing with living to 100 is community, is meaningful relationships. There's a lot of data coming out that the quality of your relationships can help with the longevity of your life, which is surprising.

• 2:00:30Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of studies? How long have you been tracking that?

• 2:00:33Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm always interested in what's gonna make people better.

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  There's all kinds of data that comes out. We just see it increasing over time. And you know, it's difficult to study. One of the challenges with not just nutrition, but also influences from communities, things like the blue zones is it's all epidemiology. It's not a randomized controlled trial. Randomized controlled trial would be high quality evidence. So the idea where it's epidemiology is where we look at groups of people.

• 2:01:04Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:01:04Speaker 03

  The data on that is considered low quality evidence, weaker low quality evidence. Very difficult to do randomized controlled trials over decades. It's been near impossible.

• 2:01:14Shawn Ryan?

  There's gotta be something to it though, right? If there's zones, it's not just, it doesn't sound like it's just sporadic that all these people are living to 100 and all these different, it seems to be concentrated in these zones, correct?

• 2:01:27Speaker 03

  Well, they're also notoriously very bad at record keeping. We don't know the validity of the birth certificates.

• 2:01:36Shawn Ryan?

  Well, isn't like Okinawa, Japan, one of them?

• 2:01:40Speaker 03

  Now, if my memory serves me correct, there's various areas within Okinawa and that, you know, or I can say China. So there was, you know, various areas of China that are considered blue zones. But they compare it to the area in China where everyone is outdoors and doing a lot of physical labor versus areas in China where are they are, be like living in New York City. The things aren't comparable. But what I think that we can learn from the blue zones are lifestyle modification factors. Physical activity is critical. Now, one would say, oh, I'm out. I'm doing all these things and I'm walking and I'm exercising.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  The reality of how we live doesn't necessarily make it conducive to live like the blue zone. I don't think it's enough. In the blue zone, you don't hear about people lifting weights. You don't hear about people purposely going through stressful experiences.

• 2:02:44Speaker 03

  We, as Americans, we live here. We live in a sedentary type of culture. We are up against various other environmental factors. For us, we do need to train hard. We do need to do various things that if you lived in an island somewhere where it was fresh water and flowers, you might be fine. But I don't, I think that it can guide us, but it's not translatable.

• 2:03:13Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think nature plays such a big part? It sounds like that's what you're saying.

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're just designed. That's how we're designed. We're not designed to be under fluorescent lights. We evolved with a 24-hour circadian rhythm. And we are very removed from that. I do believe that we are going to move from this idea of sleep biology to circadian biology. We think about it as sleep. I think that sleep is going to fall under the umbrella of circadian biology. Meaning how we eat in terms of the timeframes. How we eat breakfast. Are we eating at the same time? Are we eating when the light is out? Do we stop eating at 5 o'clock in Texas when the sun goes down?

• 2:04:01Speaker 03

  Our body is designed to not be out of alignment with its natural rhythms. And I think the further that we move away from those natural rhythms, the more dysregulated, the more inflammation that we create, regardless of doing all of the things.

• 2:04:17Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, okay, that makes sense. You know, I wanted to ask you, this is totally a side, side rabbit hole here, but psychedelics, we're talking, we've brought up dementia, Alzheimer's a couple of different times. That's a fear of mine as well. I think a lot of people worry about that.

• 2:04:38Shawn Ryan?

  I've heard, read, I don't remember where I saw it, but it's popped up several different times. Does psychedelics, does that help with Alzheimer's dementia?

• 2:04:49Speaker 03

  I can't say for sure, but what I can tell you is there seems to be a lot of promising information. When we say psychedelics, are we talking about ibogaine? NMDA, are we talking about ayahuasca? There are various modalities, I think, that affect the brain. What we do see is that it seems to improve mood, relationships, difficult depression to treat. There are definite benefits to psychedelic therapy. Again, we definitely see it in the military population. I just see it all the time from patients that go and do some kind of psychedelic therapy, come back and they definitely seem transformed and their relationships seem transformed

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  and their depression and anxiety.

• 2:05:35Shawn Ryan?

  Have you done them?

• 2:05:36Speaker 03

  I have done ayahuasca in Ecuador.

• 2:05:39Shawn Ryan?

  Did you get any benefits from it?

• 2:05:40Speaker 03

  Threw up a lot. Threw up a lot. I don't know if I did.

• 2:05:48Shawn Ryan?

  Why did you do it?

• 2:05:50Speaker 03

  My father, who is an expat, is very interested in plant medicine. He's been down there for over a decade and he went through some really significant struggles and he found that plant medicine really helped him and really transformed his life. And I'm very open-minded. I'm very interested in how can we become the best version of ourselves? And if there's something that I am doing or have subconsciously that's holding me back, I want to address it. So I was very open to trying it.

• 2:06:22Shawn Ryan?

  You mean, your husband's a team guy?

• 2:06:25Speaker 03

  Not interested at all.

• 2:06:26Shawn Ryan?

  Not interested at all?

• 2:06:27Speaker 03

  At all.

• 2:06:27Shawn Ryan?

  Interested.

• 2:06:28Speaker 03

  He's afraid.

• 2:06:29Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think he's afraid of?

• 2:06:30Speaker 03

  Of the things that it might bring up.

• 2:06:33Shawn Ryan?

  Fair enough.

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  The things, I would say, military members, particularly special operations community, I mean, again, I can only speak from my experience, seem to be very good at compartmentalizing. But the one thing that I know for sure is that you can't escape these things. It comes out. It has to be addressed. You know, we were talking before. I've been seeing patients for almost two decades, and not quite two decades, but maybe close to 15 years or a little over. There are through lines that you see of individuals that are able to become very successful, not just from a business perspective, but as humans.

• 2:07:21Speaker 03

  And a physician's job is to recognize patterns, typically patterns of diseases. But there are very particular attributes or patterns of individuals that I think allow for them to become the best version of themselves. And I have just seen similarity after similarity. And one, which may be surprising, is a level of neutrality. They're neutral. Things are going great. Things are going terrible. They're even. They never get too high. They never get too low. They're very neutral.

• 2:08:00Speaker 03

  And the individuals that are able to maintain a neutral mind seem to be the ones that have the most success.

• 2:08:15Shawn Ryan?

  Are you like that?

• 2:08:20Speaker 03

  I definitely have a level of neutrality. Absolutely. Because I know what happens if you get too excited or too pumped up. Basically, what I see over time, and I've obviously seen within myself, and you've probably experienced, that, let's say, you had a big event.

• 2:08:46Speaker 03

  As high as you go for that big event, as amped up as you're gonna be, you're gonna go give a talk, you're gonna get out there, will be as low as you fall. So it's this kind of dopamine swing. You know, you see individuals that will release a book or that will make millions of dollars because of a deal that they closed, or they'll have a major event in Las Vegas, whatever it is. These people get ready for the high and they're chasing the high and they're getting so excited. And again, I see this in my patients. They get so amped up that at the pinnacle of being amped up, right before the event, right before the book release, right before the major show that comes off or comes out, whatever that is, is a point of vulnerability.

• 2:09:30Speaker 03

  And they will continue to chase the high, make bad decisions, increase risk-taking behavior. Let's say you're someone who likes to buy a car. Right at that pinnacle, you're gonna go out to purchase. You'll do something to continue to drive that high. But what's so fascinating is at that point of vulnerability, when people are at their peak, you never think about doing this amazing thing. And right at that peak is where you're vulnerable. But as high as you go in emotion and success, as high as you allow yourself to go, is as low as you fall.

• 2:10:12Shawn Ryan?

  Makes sense.

• 2:10:13Speaker 03

  People after, I mean, I had this one patient, this one guy, he would put on this big event in Vegas. Every year he would call me, I knew it. I'm feeling depressed, I don't wanna work out, I don't know, maybe I should buy a new car. He just made millions of dollars, like clockwork. The human mind is predictable. As high as he would go, would be as low as he would go. And that second point of vulnerability is where it takes people months to recover if they're unaware. If they don't allow for this dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter, thought to be responsible for drive and motivation. If that doesn't recover, and the best way to help with recovery, I mean, you can train it.

• 2:10:55Speaker 03

  But if you do not allow yourself to get amped up, celebrate all those wins, you really modify what the meaning is, then you never get too high, then you never fall so low.

• 2:11:10Speaker 03

  And the people listening can probably appreciate that because

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  I'm sure your team here has had major events or major things that you've had to do.

• 2:11:21Speaker 03

  Following that accomplishment is where people surprisingly feel depressed. And at that moment is a level of vulnerability. Like, maybe when they go on vacation, just something simple. When you get back from vacation, people feel depressed. They've been high all week, and then as high as they go is as low. So back to the statement that I was making is that there are predictable behaviors and ways in which we can modulate our human experience. And when you recognize that human beings are totally predictable, tactical things to improve neutrality. I don't know, don't celebrate every win. You want some nicotine?

• 2:12:06Speaker 03

  Look at it, don't have it, put it back. Heads or tails, you get to eat that gummy bear? Tails, you get to eat it, heads, you don't. So you practice this kind of purposeful restriction.

• 2:12:17Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 2:12:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:20Shawn Ryan?

  What are some other attributes of successful people?

• 2:12:22Speaker 03

  They set standards. There's this idea of goals, that we should have the goal and work towards the goal. The goal allows for failure. You set standards by how you execute, what you believe in, and you do those things over time, then you always rely on your standards. You're not setting the 10-pound goal of weight loss. You are the type of person that wakes up and trains. You are the type of person that executes these key components because that's your standard.

• 2:12:59Speaker 03

  I mean, that's critical. And then

• 2:13:03Speaker 03

  the third one is managing distraction.

• 2:13:09Speaker 03

  Distraction, I think, kills more people than, I don't know, heart disease.

• 2:13:15Shawn Ryan?

  Literally?

• 2:13:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I don't know, but it seems like people say that-

• 2:13:20Shawn Ryan?

  Kills success or kills people?

• 2:13:22Speaker 03

  Kills dreams, kills people.

• 2:13:26Speaker 03

  I mean, distraction allows you to do things that are unimportant in place of things that are very meaningful. You know, I, um, I really started thinking deeply about this. I don't even want to tell the story.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  We live in Texas and I have two very little children. My husband was going to San Diego to present this urology paper that he wrote,

• 2:13:59Speaker 03

  some study, and we go to the pool every summer. Well, every summer, we've been there two summers, every day during the summer. I have a three-year-old boy, he cannot swim. My daughter is able to swim, amazing, she's good at everything, life is gonna be hard for her.

• 2:14:18Speaker 03

  But there were eight lifeguards there. They all know my son, we go every day. There were two children in the pool.

• 2:14:30Speaker 03

  I am a helicopter parent, especially around a pool. I look up, there are eight fucking lifeguards and there are two kids in the pool, no one is there. I'm like, you know what? Ares, my daughter's name is Ares, after the god of war. I'm gonna, we were gonna FaceTime Shane, who was leaving,

• 2:14:51Speaker 03

  to say goodbye. And we FaceTime him. I look up and I didn't see my son.

• 2:15:06Speaker 03

  He was drowning at the deep end of the pool.

• 2:15:12Speaker 03

  What do you think those eight lifeguards were doing?

• 2:15:15Shawn Ryan?

  On their phone.

• 2:15:16Speaker 03

  They were on their phone.

• 2:15:23Speaker 03

  Thank God I looked up, ran in, jumped in, got him out. He was OK.

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  Had I not looked up,

• 2:15:35Speaker 03

  that little boy would not be here.

• 2:15:39Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 2:15:40Speaker 03

  So we are in a culture of complete distraction. That would have changed our lives forever.

• 2:15:52Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:15:58Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 2:15:58Speaker 03

  So when you think about what allows people

• 2:16:07Speaker 03

  to fulfill their life, their life's purpose,

• 2:16:13Speaker 03

  those are the ones that are undistracted and unencumbered by distraction.

• 2:16:18Shawn Ryan?

  How's your son?

• 2:16:19Speaker 03

  My son is good.

• 2:16:21Shawn Ryan?

  Good deal.

• 2:16:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know,

• 2:16:26Shawn Ryan?

  it can be tough to keep the distractions away. You know, we were kind of chatting about that too before the interview about

• 2:16:35Shawn Ryan?

  my road to podcasting and all the distractions. And it wasn't until I really zeroed in and I was like, look, we do one thing here and we do it really good. That's when we really, really saw

• 2:16:50Shawn Ryan?

  the curve start steepening. And so all of that makes a lot of sense.

• 2:16:57Speaker 03

  It's discernment. You're able to discern the right thing to do at the right time. What was so important? I'm like, there's no way something's going to happen to my son. There were eight fucking lifeguards.

• 2:17:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:11Speaker 03

  No one was in the pool.

• 2:17:15Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 2:17:16Speaker 03

  So, when we think about this global idea of health and wellness, you know, there are things that distract and minimize our ability to discern the things that are most important from the things that aren't. You know, we talk about sleep and supplements, but ultimately, you know, this level of neutrality, I think even at the top of that is the ability to discern.

• 2:17:45Speaker 03

  Is this thought a relevant thought? Is this action a relevant action?

• 2:17:52Speaker 03

  You know, is this nutrition plan, you know, whatever it is, this is what I've committed to, this is my standard?

• 2:18:01Speaker 03

  So, you wrap it all up in discernment.

• 2:18:06Speaker 03

  And the better you are at discerning, the more capable you are going to be in all aspects of health, wellness, business.

• 2:18:19Shawn Ryan?

  It's a damn good point.

• 2:18:25Shawn Ryan?

  Well, doctor, I think that, uh, I think that's a good place to end it. But, uh, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for making the trip here to Franklin and, um, and, um, just so thankful we met. And, uh, wish you the best of luck with your, you got more books coming out?

• 2:18:43Speaker 03

  I have, um, two more books coming out. One, it comes out in a year and then in the following year.

• 2:18:48Shawn Ryan?

  What are those going to be about?

• 2:18:50Speaker 03

  The next book is going to be a manual. So it'll go with Forever Strong. You want to look up how to sleep, how to lose fat, whatever it is, it'll be there.

• 2:19:00Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:19:01Speaker 03

  You don't have to think about the science. It's a protocol-based book.

• 2:19:04Shawn Ryan?

  Very cool.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  And the book after that is one for women.

• 2:19:08Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 2:19:09Speaker 03

  Forever Strong for Women.

• 2:19:11Shawn Ryan?

  Good deal. Well, I wish you the best of luck with your books, your practice, your podcasts,

• 2:19:18Shawn Ryan?

  and whatever else you can be in a mother and, uh, and, um...

• 2:19:25Speaker 03

  Thank you again. Thank you so much for having me. I joke that I've never probably talked this much on a podcast. You are a spectacular host. Truly, this has been one of my most favorite podcasts. I'm so grateful. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you.