443: KJ Biermann Updates, More Siders Family News, RC Horsch New Victims, & Caleb Flynn Trial

Join Annie as she breaks down what’s happening in true crime this week.. Mega Church, Mistresses, & Murder | The American Idol Murderer📺YouTube. Philly House Of Horrors: Largest Serial Killer in 50 Years? | Eugene Horsch🍎Apple Podcasts💚Spotify📺YouTube. KJ Biermann: Sex Crimes, Deeply Disturbing Videos and a Secret Trip🍎Apple Podcasts💚Spotify📺YouTube. Ohio House of Horrors: New Photos from Inside, 16 "Almost Feral" Kids Rescued & Very Dark Timeline | The Sider Family🍎Apple Podcasts💚Spotify📺YouTube. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow the show for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases! To watch the video version of this episode, head over to youtube.com/@annieelise. .🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks..🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms.📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife.⭐SponsorsOrion: Right now, Orion is offering our listeners 15% off at http://ORIONSLEEP. COM/AE. The Absorption Company: Go to http://absorbmore.com and enter AE at check out for up to 35% off your first order..👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon.🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected].📚 Episode Sources ABC7NY | CBS News | CBS News Atlanta | CBS Philadelphia | East Idaho News | KCRG | Law&Crime | Nate Easton | New York Post | NewsNation | People | Perry Iowa Police Department | The Guardian••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

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• 1:29Speaker 00

  Hey, true crime besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of Seriallessly.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Seriallessly with me, your host. Happy Thursday. You know what Thursday means. Well, maybe not all of you know what Thursday means. Thursday is headline highlights day, where Monday is the deep dive day, deep dive into a singular case. Thursday, headline highlights, going through everything happening this week in true crime. Brand-new cases, case updates, I don't know, new reemerged cases because something happened, which, hello, I guess that would mean an update, but where we, I can't talk, where we are talking about everything going on this week

• 2:31Speaker 00

  in true crime. And I have to say, I think the theme of today's episode is like, what is wrong with people? Why are people the way they are? Because there are a lot of updates we have to talk about, which luckily for you guys, if you are newer to the podcast, all of these cases that I am going to be sharing with you today have deep dives into them, so you can always get the full deep dive backstory if you want. We will recap a little bit as well, but just, you know, you can always get the backstory if you want to. And there's just so much to talk about. And I'm actually really excited because the person who is going to be co-hosting today's episode with me flew in, like, specifically for this

• 3:15Speaker 00

  episode, straight from the clurbs of Ibiza, welcome Sir Amy Coletzalot.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  I'm like laughing because you were shocked watching my stories.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  No, the fact, first of all-

• 3:29Speaker 03

  I was so unlike myself.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  The fact that you clurb so hard-

• 3:33Speaker 03

  I'm not a clurb-er.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  No shade, at your age, and like, go out until 6:00 a.m. and then go back out on, for a boat party at noon. I was watching and had a pit in my stomach because I'm like, I would never survive this. That is my worst nightmare of a vacation-

• 3:47Speaker 03

  Same.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  But it was your dream vacation.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  It ended up being the best trip I've ever had in my life.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I don't know if you guys follow Amy on Insta, but she was posting at the clurb left and right, and I was literally in bed at 7 o'clock with my hair bonnet, watching, what was I watching at the time? I just finished Suits for the third time. I was watching something, Pen 15. And I was just like, this couldn't be, I was like that meme of Sarah Paulson. I don't know if you know her, you know who Sarah Paulson is, the actress?

• 4:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  Have you seen the meme of her, like, in the dark in bed with the phone, and it's, and it lights up her face and she's just laughing at it?

• 4:20Speaker 03

  I was laughing because I keep seeing the memes that pop up. It's like, this is how the text, my sister asking for the networks, or the Netflix password finds me. And I'm like, at the club, just like, but it was crazy because when people would ask, like, that I would meet, like, what do you do for work? And I would explain what you do. I think internationally, true crime is just not as common as it is here in the States. It's not happening as frequently because they were shocked to say, you have that much to talk about? And I thought-

• 4:50Speaker 00

  That is a loaded statement. I would argue it's because we have so much crime here in America.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  That's what I mean.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Proud to be an American.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, that's exactly what I mean. I mean, they were like horrified that, for full-time work.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  I know. I think it's big in Italy, too. There's a girl I follow, and she's a big Italy YouTuber, and we've become friends. And I know her stuff blows up. But, yeah, well, heller.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  Heller.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Heller, isn't me you're looking for?

• 5:17Speaker 03

  Honestly, I didn't recognize you because-

• 5:19Speaker 00

  I can see it in your eyes. I can see it in your soul.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  You guys take a look at her hands-

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Stop.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  Because she's unrecognizable this week. I barely know who my sister is.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  I look like a naked guinea pig.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  You really do?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  It's so disgusting, or like, a shaved rat. I don't have nail polish on. I don't have fake nails on, all natural. It's, my hands look so chubby. And I hate it. My nails are brittle and thin, and it's the worst moment of my life, honestly.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  It's not my favorite.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  Well, this isn't an OnlyFans podcast, but if it was, I'd also show you the same stories happening with my toes right now.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Oh, God, for the love, thank God.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  For the love of God. No, and I cannot wait until next week when I am given clearance to put nail polish back on these paws because it is driving me insane.

• 6:16Speaker 03

  You and me both, sister.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  I know. And I have to film a documentary this week, and I won't have polish on, so I'm gonna be like, literally sitting on my hands-

• 6:24Speaker 03

  Please wear gloves.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  Because I'm like, that's gonna live in infamy. Like, maybe I'll just wear leather gloves. I'm like, they're all, okay, honey, you're not OJ.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  You're not channeling Shailene. Wasn't that your outfit of choice?

• 6:35Speaker 00

  Honestly, I'm sorry, guys, we're getting way carried away here, but we're catching her. Um, yes, Shailene Woodley was worst dressed at the Emmys. I liked her outfit. I don't know what that says about me-

• 6:46Speaker 03

  She loved it.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  But I enjoyed it, so suck it. Um, okay, so, like I said, we have a lot of updates, and I want to start with an update in the Siders family case. You know, House of Horrors in Ohio. We talked about an update just last week, I think it was, where the grandfather was found incompetent to stand trial. But now we have another update in the Siders family. And this one is specifically about Elizabeth, the mother of the 16 kids who were not only removed, but also rescued from that home in Ohio. So Elizabeth was back in court last Wednesday, and she pleaded not guilty to all of the charges that she's facing. That includes 19 counts of child endangerment, along with two counts of sexual battery and

• 7:31Speaker 00

  two counts of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. And like we've talked about before, this case really started after investigators went to the family's home, and for something completely unrelated, and found these 16 children, ranging in ages from 17 months old, all the way up to 18 years old, just living in absolutely horrific conditions. Authorities said that the kids had essentially been confined to a 12-by-12-foot room for the last four years. And this room, once we saw pictures of it, which we did do a deep dive into this case, and there's lots of photos in that deep dive, and we'll put some up on the screen right now. But when we got the photos of this room and this house, which I don't even think you can call it a house necessarily, I mean, maybe, I guess

• 8:16Speaker 00

  you can, covered in filth, in trash, in feces, in every possible known substance and piece of waste you could imagine. And think about that, a 12-by-12 room, 16 people, some adults, technically, living in this one room that's filled to the brim with waste and feces. It is awful. Now, some of them weren't, actually, all of them weren't attending school. Some of them, when they were rescued, could not speak. And authorities described the children as appearing, quote, "almost feral." The oldest child was also developmentally disabled and couldn't even spell her own name. So at this latest hearing, the judge set Elizabeth's

• 8:57Speaker 00

  bond at $250,000 on the sexual assault charges, which is on top of the $300,000 bond that she already had for the child endangerment charges. So altogether, her bond is upwards of half a million dollars. She also was ordered to have no contact with the alleged victims or with her husband, Gary Jr. And her attorney said that he doesn't believe that she will be able to come up with the money to bond out. And I think that that is no surprise because even though you have to really, like, usually post 10% with a bail bondsman, which in this case would be $50,000, that is, first of all, an extremely high sum of money, but also, given the conditions in which they were living, and their life, and the lack of work and everything, I don't think that they will come up with that money. However,

• 9:42Speaker 00

  something else that came up during this hearing was Elizabeth's mental health. Because as we know, she is already waiting to undergo a competency evaluation. Her attorney told the court that Elizabeth still asks to see her children, and that he has serious concerns about whether she is mentally competent to move forward with this case. He specifically pointed out to the fact that Elizabeth got married when she was only 15 years old, and said that she has spent the better part of the last two decades pregnant, which we talked about that in the deep dive, too. Her parents essentially signed off on her getting married at 15 years old to this older guy, her current husband, Gary Jr. And then she was pregnant

• 10:22Speaker 00

  every year for 20 years. Some of those pregnancies did not, unfortunately, transpire and result in a live birth. Many others did. There was a lot of question, there still is a lot of question of, was her purpose simply to breed for this family? What was going on within the family? Was there some sort of family-on-family interactions? A lot of weird stuff. But according to him, because of all of these back-to-back pregnancies for two decades, she never really had the opportunity to fully recover postpartum between pregnancies. She didn't receive medical care, and she's been dealing with pretty serious mental health issues. He also talked about the environment that Elizabeth herself had been living in, saying that she had essentially

• 11:07Speaker 00

  spent her entire adult life inside the Siders' house and didn't really know a life outside of it. And-

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Look, I think that two things can be true. I think that she absolutely could be a victim in all of this, and I think she is a victim to an extent in all of this, but I also think that she is a perpetrator. These charges are not stemming out of the blue. That being said, being married off super young, breeding, being like, you know, not born to breed, but married to breed, and you're just constantly having children over and over, you're living in squalor, it's all you ever have known, it's what the extended family is also encouraging. There is a sense of, I don't want to say like Stockholm syndrome, but like being brainwashed to where you start accepting this reality as normal, and your barometer

• 11:56Speaker 00

  for what you accept, what you think is acceptable, what you think is okay parenting skills and all that, it starts to get lower and lower and lower over time because you start rationalizing what you are exposed to, what you're witnessing, what you're a part of. So I think that yes, she absolutely needs to be held accountable for her actions, but I also think she is also a victim within this family and these circumstances. So does she have the support and care that she needs if she never had that? Now, the results of the competency evaluation could become a pretty significant part of what happens next in her case, because as we know, she's married to Gary Jr., Gary Senior was already found incompetent, but in total, there were four

• 12:40Speaker 00

  adults who were arrested. It was Elizabeth and her husband, Gary Jr., then Gary Jr.'s parents, Gary Senior, and for some reason, I'm blanking on the wife's name. Want to say it's Elizabeth too, but I think that's wrong. But anyway, they all are basically being charged and have been in custody. However, there was another question during this hearing that I saw everybody asking. It was going viral, the photos, the clips, everything, and it was surrounding her appearance in court. Because during the hearing, she was seen holding her stomach, and she didn't have handcuffs on, so she was kind of using both of her hands to cradle her stomach, which did look a little fuller under her jailhouse clothing. And that led to a ton of speculation that she could possibly be pregnant again. And I have to say,

• 13:24Speaker 00

  this isn't something new that happened. When I first covered this case, when it first broke back in, gosh, July, I think it was, there were rumors that she was pregnant when she was arrested. However, we were never able to confirm that. And at the time, I think that she would have been so early along that it wasn't visible in any of the footage or body cam stuff that we saw. This is really the first appearance that we have seen where, if she is pregnant, because I don't love to speculate when it comes to a woman's body, but if she is pregnant, this would serve as the first appearance where we are able to visibly see that. And it does appear that she has a fuller stomach, whether that is a baby or not, I don't know. She did appear to be holding it and cradling it. So it could be that the

• 14:09Speaker 00

  rumor from months ago was in fact true, and that she's pregnant again. Which honestly, it's disgusting to think about, given the circumstances, but it's also not all that shocking, considering like clockwork, she was getting pregnant every single year. One reporter even asked her attorney whether she was pregnant after the hearing, and he wouldn't confirm or deny it. All he said was, I can't address that at this time. So right now, there has been no official confirmation that she is pregnant again, but with her competency evaluation still pending, her bond now sitting at more than half a million dollars, and these additional charges moving forward, there is still a lot of unanswered questions about what's going to happen next. And I also just really quickly, in case you didn't listen to the deep dive,

• 14:53Speaker 00

  I want to be clear, these new charges, particularly the sexual abuse charges and, you know, things to do with a minor, those stem, to my knowledge, from something not related directly to her children. I don't know if that still means it's a relative, or if it's something like that, but those, there, those charges are not directly at this time correlated to the children who were in the house. So I don't want to allude to the fact that there was some sort of incest happening within the house, and that because she was groomed in that house, arguably, she accepted that. We don't know that those charges at all infiltrate

• 15:33Speaker 00

  what the actual core nuclear family. So just want to make that clear before anybody, you know, starts speculating. But definitely sad, and it keeps getting crazier and crazier.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  I can't imagine if she really is in fact pregnant.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  I mean, that's wild. How long has it been since she's seen Gary Jr.?

• 15:52Speaker 00

  When they got arrested in July. Yeah.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  Wow. So obviously not part of a master plan there. It was just part of the timing and her regular rhythm of getting pregnant.

• 16:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, popped out a baby, time to get pregnant again, and then she got arrested, I think, once she probably was pregnant.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 16:09Speaker 00

  I know.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  I know.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  Well, there was also a press conference last week in the case of the Philly House of Horrors, which I know everyone's been following, which is also extremely disgusting, and it just keeps getting more dark and twisted.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  If you remember, a federal investigation was opened earlier this year after a man named Eugene Horsch was arrested during a traffic stop for possessing drugs, weapons, and a missing woman's ID, and a fake federal badge. That led authorities to his home where they reportedly found even more drugs, weapons, fake government credentials, chemicals, and an absolutely massive, massive amount of digital evidence. And a lot of that digital evidence is believed to have belonged to a man named R.C. Horsch, who is Eugene's father, and he died in 2025. R.C. was known for photographing and filming women in sadomasochistic scenes, many involving drugs, restraints, and violence, which has left investigators trying to figure

• 17:07Speaker 03

  out how much of this evidence was staged for work, and what actually may have happened inside that house. And this week, investigators held a press conference that revealed they've recovered around 1 million pictures and videos from that digital evidence. And so far, they've only made it through about 30% of them. Now, obviously, not a million of these files are disturbing evidence. Investigators said the collection ranges as things from as basic as emojis, all the way up to photos and videos taken inside the Horsch home and other locations. And here's what they said at that press conference.

• 17:42Speaker 04

  Numerous search warrants were conducted, and we now know, and I know it's been reported, but over 1 million digital images were recovered. And these digital images were on, on different hard drives, different flash drives, different items throughout the house. The FBI helped us develop them. We have them. What I could tell you when I say digital images, some are pictures, thousands and thousands of videos. So we'll, we are in a process, and we'll talk more about that, about how we're doing that. But these images go from anything from an emoji to videos that Mr. Horsch, R.C. Horsch, Eugene's father, made, and, and videos from inside

• 18:26Speaker 04

  the house, videos from other places. There's, there's tons of pictures of, of lots of people, women posed in different positions within that house on Chu. So that evidence is being analyzed as we go through.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  But some of what they've found is extremely concerning. Investigators say they have recovered images of missing women Gabrielle Armando and Maribel Freesis inside the Horsch home, and in those images, both women appeared to have been unconscious and had visible injuries. The metadata from those files dates them back to 2017, so almost nine years ago. And remember, neither Gabrielle nor Maribel has ever been found. Investigators also say they haven't recovered DNA from either of those women inside the home, so despite having these images, they still don't know exactly what happened to them. But then the investigators described another series of videos, also with metadata dating back to 2017, and this

• 19:23Speaker 03

  is where everything gets even more disturbing. So trigger warning, we're going to describe some of these images, and they are very graphic. These videos involved R.C. and other women, and both were not wearing clothing. Investigators say apparently there were two cameras there were being used, one that was fixed inside the room while R.C. appeared to be holding the other. And in the footage, the woman was reportedly seen using narcotics. R.C. gave her money, and at some point, she was then handcuffed to the bed. Then investigators say R.C. took a pair of channel locked pliers, put a zip tie around the woman's neck, and tightened it until she became unconscious and, quote, "appeared to be lifeless." Police

• 20:05Speaker 03

  have now identified that woman as Nicole Ferraso, but her body has also never been recovered. But investigators aren't saying they can prove she was even murdered at this point. They said that they still need additional evidence before they can connect what they're seeing in these videos to an actual homicide. And investigators also found images of other women in what they described as similarly concerning circumstances. So now altogether, there are seven women that investigators are primarily focused on. Five of those women have been identified as Gabrielle Amarondo, Maribel Freesis, R.C.'s ex-wife Amy McHale, Nicole Ferraso, and Blair Tonzelli, that woman whose ID was found being used by another

• 20:47Speaker 03

  person at the start of this investigation. The sixth woman was reportedly identified, and her family has been spoken to, but they asked that her name not be released publicly. And the seventh woman has not yet been identified. But those seven women are only a very, very small piece of what investigators are sorting through. In total so far, police have identified 58 different people from the videos they have seen. 10 of those people have since died from overdoses that happened later on away from the Horsch home. And another 16 people have been identified, located, and interviewed, but investigators say they are not cooperative. And then there are three other people that have actually contacted investigators themselves, and basically said, you're going to see me in these videos, but I'm not going to cooperate.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  But on top of those 26 people that police have identified, they believe there are still 25 living people from these videos who they are still working on identifying and scheduling interviews with.

• 21:43Speaker 04

  58 people were identified in these images that we've seen. So four of them, as we said, that were identified, appear to be lifeless. One of them, we have a video of what may have happened to her. The other one is, is not identified, so it's not counted here. 10, we know, overdosed later on, way after the video was done, but they were found somewhere else, in a different residence, in a different place in Philadelphia, not at Chu Street. 16 of them that we've seen in various states, we found, and we interviewed. Not very cooperative, they don't really want to talk about what occurred in that house. They're not telling us a lot about what occurred, but they were there, and now they were able to be interviewed.

• 22:26Speaker 04

  There's 25 people that we know are now alive, that we're scheduling interviews with. But again, they were seen in various states, and we're just not sure, you know, what they were doing when they were in there. So there were also three people that called, that said, you're going to see images of us. But we're not coming in to talk to you and we're, you know, we're not coming back. So there, there's a lot going on and we really only looked at a very small amount of video as the SAC will explain to you, there is thousands and thousands of videos that need to be gone through.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  And then there's the physical evidence. Investigators recovered five urns from the home that they have now been sent out for testing. And the FBI says there are still an enormous amount of physical evidence that has to be processed, one item at a time. Authorities also said they expect to execute more search warrants soon and investigators will be going back to the house to see what else they can find. That next search will be based on DNA and labeling results that they've already received, as well as information that has pointed them towards other areas of the home that they want to look through. So obviously this is still very frustrating because there is a lot of unknowns and so many questions still in this case, but investigators are really begging for everyone's patience because at this point investigators are still just trying to piece through all of this

• 23:43Speaker 03

  evidence and there's so much of it that they have to go through one at a time. And it's just gonna take a lot of time to be able to do that and to get all of those answers. But I would imagine that it would be very frustrating, like as you read that you're like uncovering this and finding that there's these identities and now you're able to track them down, locate and interview, but then there's so many people uncooperative.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  To speak, which I understand why, but still as an investigator, you're like, I'm trying to determine what happened here.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  I know. I think a lot of it probably stems from the shame of it all.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  When I did the deep dive on this, I remember that our seahorse Eugene's father, you mentioned it, how he was like a sadomasochist and like did all of this like crazy material. He filmed these insane things, took photographs and oftentimes he would hit the streets and find addicts or sex workers and offer them money to participate in these things. So when you had said that a handful of them have already died from overdoses, the other handful won't cooperate, I imagine it's because hopefully they've cleaned up their life a little bit and they just don't want to relive and revisit that shame. But I remember when we first covered this a couple of months ago and it was being dubbed as the biggest serial killer case in recent history.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  And I thought to myself, okay, they haven't exactly proven how many people they have killed or that they have killed anyone, although the circumstances don't look to be in their favor. But now as so much more has come forward, I'm like, this really is, I think, one of the biggest serial killer, potential serial killer cases because they had all those chemicals in the house, which could be used for drugs, but also could be used to dispose of bodies. They have the urns, which we know of, the missing women's IDs, the missing ex-wife. I even read recently that there was something, and I can't remember exactly what it was. I need to dig into it more, where there is some sort of connection to Jonathan Gurelak,

• 25:44Speaker 00

  who is a huge serial killer too. And so it just makes you, that's kind of why I said the theme of today's episode is like, what is wrong with people and like, what is going on? Like, why do these humans exist?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  Well, and that kind of speaks to his fake DEA credentials because it's like, he's probably come, I'm like, obviously speculating here, but I'm thinking you approached these women, you're like, I'm this person of authority, come with me. Like, is that how he lures them in?

• 26:11Speaker 00

  Possibly.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  And then, of course, he's targeting people who have an addiction.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  I'm just gonna say this though, okay? If either one of these asshats knocked on my window or came up to me on the street, I don't care if I was flying higher than a kite, if they tried to say that they were FBI or DEA, I would take one look at their mug and be like, there is no fucking way in hell you work for the FBI or the DEA.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  But what if they're like, we want you to be, what are they called? An undercover informant and like, we'll pay you and like come back.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, like not to shame them, but I am going to shame them. Looking at their appearance, they look like they are straight out of The Hills Have Eyes. Like, I'm not even kidding. And that movie haunts me to my core, to where I would never believe in a million years that they worked for the government. I understand going undercover and getting into character.

• 27:00Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, they're just playing the part.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Either they committed to the bit way too hard then because.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  Realistic.

• 27:06Speaker 00

  It's way too realistic. He looks like, who's the guy from Goonies?

• 27:10Speaker 03

  I've still never seen that movie.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  Oh, but like.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  I know you guys were trying to get me to watch it this weekend.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  I forget who, what his name is and everybody's shouting at the speaker right now, but I don't like it.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  I don't know. I just feel like, and I get what you're saying. I understand why people wouldn't want to come forward, especially maybe if they haven't completely cleaned up their life or they're afraid of getting in trouble for other things.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  I just wish that this guy would go, obviously, I mean, glad he's dead, but.

• 27:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, the other one though, needs to be held accountable.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Everybody needs to be held accountable and we need the truth of what's happening. And there's too many missing women.

• 27:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, the good news is even if a handful of these, I don't want to say witnesses, but I guess it is witnesses, don't come forward, it sounds like they have so much evidence and so much more material to still filter through that I'm confident they will be able to find enough to put them away for life. Maybe having the additional dozen people would put them away for seven life terms, but I think that there will be plenty to like lock them up, throw away the key.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  Can you imagine being that investigator who has to sort through a million pieces of evidence and then?

• 28:16Speaker 00

  No.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  Regardless, whether it's part of the crime or not, it's disturbing evidence from this guy's like professional fetishes and things. So it's like, God, I don't want that job.

• 28:27Speaker 00

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• 31:39Speaker 00

  Okay, so we definitely need to talk about KJ Bierman a little bit more because I swear to God, sorry, I shouldn't say that, I swear to gosh, I guess I'll just say that, that more information keeps surfacing in this case that is so incredibly disturbing, very highly irregular and just, I don't know, very concerning. And if you guys missed it, I did a deep dive on Monday all into this case. And you don't have to be a pop culture person to hear about this case or know about this case. However, KJ Bierman is the son of one of the famous Real Housewives, Kim Zolciak. You may have seen her on something, you might know her daughters, Brielle and Ariana.

• 32:23Speaker 00

  They're on this new show, Next Gen NYC. But she was a huge star on the Atlanta franchise of Housewives for years. Had her own spinoff, got married, all of these things. Well, her son KJ, who's 15, has been in the headlines lately for a lot of not only horrific sexual assault allegations, but material involving a family member that he assaulted allegedly himself as well, that he video recorded. And like I said, new information keeps surfacing daily. So I did the deep dive on Monday, you can go listen to that. It is worrying, incredibly disturbing. But now we need to talk about some more updates because there have been new developments in the case just within the last couple of days.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  Because prosecutors are now asking the court for permission to conduct forensic interviews with minors who are in connection with the case. I would assume those minors are more than likely his siblings because if you did miss the deep dive, and I know I just alluded to it a little bit, the prosecutor brought up the fact that this new allegation that stemmed from April of this year with an unrelated female, who is a classmate of KJ's and said that he trapped her in this Lifetime gym, that he sodomized her, that he sexually assaulted her. Once they were investigating, the prosecutor then brought into the hearing, there's actually a lot of videos on his phone from a few years ago where he was sexually assaulting a family member, a minor family member.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  And it's so disturbing on so many levels and it is very complex as well. So again, listen to the deep dive because there are a lot of weird dates that have floated around. One of the siblings was sent away for the summer to live with her grandparents and had very strict rules about no contact with boys, had to use a flip phone, couldn't go back home, or I'm sorry, not couldn't go back home, but the parents couldn't come see her. A lot of weird things that are highly irregular, as I said, for someone of her age. So let's go back to this most recent assault. He was arrested back in August on charges that stemmed from a April 2026 incident where it was charges of aggravated sodomy and aggravated sexual battery.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  Then earlier this month, a grand jury indicted him on seven felony counts, including aggravated child molestation, aggravated sexual battery, aggravated sodomy, false imprisonment, and three counts of sexual battery against a child under 16 years of age. Last week, a judge granted him a $200,000 bond with very strict conditions pending the release, where he had to surrender his passport, live at his mom's house, attend school virtually, be electronically monitored, can't use a cellphone or social media, can't have contact with minors, a whole plethora of restrictions. He also was ordered to have absolutely zero direct or indirect contact with the victim, with her family, or with anyone associated with her.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  On top of that, as I said, he can't have any contact with anyone who is 16 years old or younger, which he's only 15 years old, so that probably includes a lot of his friends. But look, if you're a threat to society, you're a threat to society. Sorry, my guy. As we talked about in the deep dive, Kim publicly defended her son since his arrest, saying the allegations against him are nothing short of reckless and that they are deeply troubling, that they can do so much harm to not only other survivors and victims, but also to people who are falsely accused. And look, while I understand her trying to defend her son and do whatever she can do while things haven't been adjudicated, also there is a track record and a pattern

• 36:00Speaker 00

  where he has been a sexual deviant in the past that she knew about. So now for this incident to happen years later and her to challenge this victim's account by saying that it's reckless and false, it just feels so disgusting to me on a human level. But I don't know, that's just me. But now, in an emergency motion that was filed last Thursday, the prosecution has asked the court to allow them to do forensic interviews of other minors other than only the victim. Prosecutors told the court that they have, quote, "good faith basis for concern regarding additional minors who they believe need to be interviewed in connection with the case."

• 36:41Speaker 00

  The motion also mentions explicit video evidence that the prosecutors want the judge to review privately and under seal. They've asked that any discussion involving that evidence or potential victims happen either in the judge's chambers or in a closed courtroom with KJ's attorney present. Now, the motion does not identify the children or explain exactly why the prosecutors want to conduct those interviews. However, based on everything we know, it could really be anything. It could be the siblings, it could be other friends within his friend group, it could be anyone at this point, but it sounds like for sure they might be trying to find out if there are other victims. And something that I explored in the deep dive a little bit more is the timeline of it all

• 37:26Speaker 00

  because the video incident occurred in April of 2023. That also is when Kroy filed for divorce from Kim and filed for primary physical and legal custody of the kids. I can't help but wonder if that incident was the catalyst, if he potentially discovered it and that's why he filed for divorce, why there has been so much turmoil. Things essentially swept under the rug in the beginning, possibly trying to protect their children, multiple children, if the children are also the victims in this, which obviously we know it was a family member, so it leads me to suspect that it was one of the children. A lot of people have alleged it's the daughter, Kaia, because she was sent to Montana. I've seen a lot of other people speculate it might have been one of the younger brothers,

• 38:10Speaker 00

  given the specific charges, which I'm not going to go into too much graphic detail here, it's all in the deep dive, but really appalling stuff. So at this point, we don't know exactly what is going to come out of this. I will keep an eye on it. There is another hearing that is going to be coming up soon. I think we are going to send someone to the courthouse because it is not locked up and you can petition to be there, just so we can see what exactly is really going on. How far back does this history go? Does the evidence support? And what the hell is really going on with this guy?

• 38:44Speaker 03

  I mean, obviously, like I've followed this just through pop culture. I've been familiar with the family in some way, shape, or form, but it's just, the whole thing is shocking, it's disgusting. And like the fact that there were so many things you could look back on and see the red flags. I'm just wondering, like, if this incident with a family member happened even earlier than this new incident that's coming to light, why are they continuing to go on reality TV? And I feel like KJ's sister is like openly saying, you know, he's fast with women and he's draining my account. So it's like they're aware that this thing has happened in their family, but it's been kept somewhat quiet because we haven't heard about it.

• 39:24Speaker 03

  But you're going on national TV on this reality show, like, it just feels like so reckless.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I think the argument could be made that they're desensitized to things a little bit because they grew up on reality TV, so maybe they don't see the dangers in that. Or maybe they think, okay, because it was two minor children at the time, because it was in 2023, meaning he would have been, what, 12 years old? And the sibling would have been 11 or younger, or family member, I should say. Which that kind of, they could have thought, okay, we contained it all, we handled it in family court, it's sealed, nobody will ever discover it, it's a family matter. Also, though, I think that opens the door to another conversation of when this 2023 incident allegedly occurred, he was so young, not that it excuses it,

• 40:17Speaker 00

  but what was going on inside that house to where he thought this behavior was acceptable? We often have seen sexual abusers oftentimes at a young age are victims themselves and then they think that behavior is acceptable. And I'm not trying to allege that Kim or Kroy abused him in some way. We don't know what happened, or if there was somebody else, a coach or else, we don't know. But what, and I'm not trying to give him a pass either. But you have to look at things and that's why it is more of a complex case when they are so young and there's that kind of behavior, where are you learning it from? Is he seeing his mom and his dad engaging in behavior? The fact that he was also in these videos yelling derogatory terms at his victim.

• 41:00Speaker 00

  You don't learn that at 11 years old.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  That's why when I very first heard about this, and again, because I watched the show and have limited knowledge of their family, I always found them to be like an entertaining family. And like when the boys were born, it was so cute, like just the addition to the family. And so part of me when hearing this felt badly for him because I felt like he's a child. He's obviously learned this behavior. They talk about, I know you went into on the deep dive, the dog bite and like was their behavior beforehand.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  And the dog was protecting.

• 41:33Speaker 03

  And where were the parents in all of that? Because the minute you see something like that, that's a red flag. And obviously you address that. So again, he has no supervision. Who knows what else was happening in the home? So this escalated to a point that's absolutely unfathomable. Fab, I can't say that word. That's how much I can't believe it. And it's like, but where were the people that were supposed to be protecting him?

• 41:57Speaker 00

  And he grew up on reality TV.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  And it was normalized in the household and kind of encouraged even to have bad behavior. He was saying the F word at what, like three years old?

• 42:08Speaker 03

  And it was funny.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. He was telling his mom, like, I'm going to punch you in the face. This is not literally a toddler, like toddler age. And they would just laugh and think it was cute. And like, I get it. Literally when Theo asked me what this means and he flipped me off. And I was like, first of all, I just about fucking like disintegrated. I was like, oh my God. And he like learned it at school. And it's like certain things like that are like funny, or you can laugh it off in the moment. But like, I would never be like, oh, it means F you and da, da, da. And it's funny and normalized.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  Lesson behind it. We don't do that.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  Right. Not like you encourage this kind of language and behavior in the house. And it's been toxic, toxic from day one in that family. They were entertaining to watch, but they kind of, the entertainment behind it was because they were a shit show. Kim would be in her confessionals with a solo cup of wine. They would be talking about having sex. They were hypersexual. They were, they glitz and glam.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  And the daughters were hypersexualized. Remember she said something about like, who does my daughter need to give a BJ to in order to get whatever that was?

• 43:08Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  And I'm like, I remember when I first heard that, I was like, that's horrifying.

• 43:14Speaker 00

  And like Kim, over the last few years, has already hit a version of rock bottom. I know they're divorcing. That divorce has been very toxic. I may end up just kind of releasing all of the body cam footage that we've collected within this case, possibly. But that divorce has been very toxic. There's been a lot of financial strain. She had, doesn't have the opportunities that she used to have. Now this is a whole new level of rock bottom where it's like, you're not just a failed reality star and have a toxic divorce situation going on. You have failed your children.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Your children.

• 43:46Speaker 00

  You are a failure of a mother. And I get that the allegations have not been adjudicated yet, but like, look at what's going on. You are a fucking failure.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Now you said they're going to be interviewing more minors. If I remember correctly, this newer situation with the girl at the gym, wasn't she an ex-girlfriend of his best friend or linked to his best friend somehow?

• 44:06Speaker 00

  She was, I believe, the best friend of his girlfriend or something like that. But she's a minor as well.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Because I'm sure all of them will be interviewed if they haven't been already.

• 44:16Speaker 00

  And there's been in the deep dive, I included, there was a girl from the school who spoke out on TikTok. And I luckily I recorded it and saved it. She was incredibly brave and she said that there were even more, there's even more to the story. And she shared some of those details. She took the TikTok down afterwards, which I don't know if it's because she was scared of retaliation, or if I, they, you know, it's, it's tough. You have these kids who are high school kids and this family who even though they don't have the financial means anymore, are an influential and powerful family. That is very intimidating to go up against and the haters that you would receive, the influence they have. So I think that girl is very brave for sharing it, but also the young victim from the April incident as well. It's like,

• 45:00Speaker 00

  this family is not untouchable. And what the hell was going on in that house to where this is where, what we are talking about right now?

• 45:08Speaker 03

  I know.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  We have talked about some of the worst cases out there. Hello, look at the couple cases we even just talked through today. We've talked about incest cases. We talked about the Lily Peters case where her cousin sexually assaulted her after he killed her. And this somehow is even darker than that. How is that happening? And how did that slip under the radar? And what the hell was going on inside that house?

• 45:30Speaker 03

  I know. It's, it's really unbelievable.

• 45:33Speaker 00

  I know. I know. So like I said, I am following this very, very closely. Go listen to the deep dive from Monday if you haven't listened yet. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can definitely watch the deep dive on YouTube. I have a lot of the photos and clips on there. However, because of the nature of the content, I had to highly censor it on YouTube. So the uncensored version is on the podcast feed where you can listen audio only. Or if you are a diehard video watcher, we always upload the uncensored video versions, also ad free over on Patreon as well, which is patreon.com/Annie Elise. Just plugging that there, there. But like every week, everything uncensored always lives over there because YouTube is just getting.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  It has to.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  It has to. YouTube is getting stricter and stricter. And you know what? I'm going to go off on a tangent really quick. I saw a comment on my community page on YouTube the other day where, and I believe it was in regards to the Lily Peters case, because I covered that before I even had a podcast where I didn't even have the ability to be uncensored because it was only on YouTube. And she said in the comment, she was basically airing her frustrations about, why do you abbreviate sexual assault to SA? Why instead of saying rape, do you say the R word? Why are you doing that? It waters down what these victims experienced and it's not calling out the deplorable behavior for what it is, which 1,000% agree. And I have been screaming that from the rooftop for years. And I have had so many meetings with YouTube's,

• 46:58Speaker 00

  with YouTube partners and people who work at YouTube being like, why can't we say medical terms?

• 47:04Speaker 03

  That was the first thing when I started working with you. I'm like, this is infuriating.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  It's infuriating. You can't say pedophile. You can't say rape. You can't say sexual assault. You can't say what these victims went through. And it's not like we're saying that these words and using this terminology to be exploitative or salacious or overly graphic. But when you can't even say what a victim went through, using the medical terminology and the legal terminology, you've got to check yourself. And I know a lot of people have that frustration with YouTube. And so yeah, for years now, everything we do record is uncensored and it lives either on the podcast or Patreon, because those are the only platforms where we can be uncensored and actually call it for what it is. But yeah, very, very frustrating. Sorry. Went off on a tangent there for a second.

• 47:50Speaker 03

  I get it.

• 47:51Speaker 00

  I'm thirsty. I'm going to take a sip of water.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  Okay. I'm going to talk about this next case. And it's very reminiscent of Lake and Snelling, Alexi Traviso, and all of those types of cases. But this one happened just last week and it happened at a daycare center.

• 48:05Speaker 00

  Oh, great.

• 48:06Speaker 03

  I know. So this happened on Tuesday, September 15th at Acorns and Oaks Childcare in Perry, Iowa. At around 5:00 PM, paramedics were called to the daycare for an employee who was identified as 20-year-old Stephanie Ubaldo, who was experiencing heavy bleeding at the time. She was taken to the hospital, but at that point, no one apparently knew what had just happened to cause the bleeding that she was having. But about an hour and a half later, at 6:22 PM, police received information that there could be a premature baby inside one of the daycare's trash cans. So officers immediately began searching and about 10 minutes later, they found a newborn baby girl inside of a trash bag.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Her umbilical cord was still attached, but she was already dead. And that's when investigators started piecing together what had happened. And they realized that Stephanie had actually given birth to the baby inside of the daycare earlier that day. And according to court documents, Stephanie had allegedly known she was pregnant for months, but just had not told anybody. And police said that after she delivered the baby, the newborn was alive and crying. And this is where the allegations just become increasingly disturbing. Prosecutors say that Stephanie intentionally injured the baby's face in an attempt to stop her from crying. And after doing that, she put the newborn into the trash and tried to go back to work.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  But because she was bleeding so heavily from just giving birth, she wasn't able to go back to work. An autopsy later determined that the baby was in fact premature, estimated to be between 32 and 36 weeks gestation, and she had multiple injuries all over her body. Her manner of death was ultimately ruled a homicide. And two days later, on September 17th, Stephanie was arrested and charged with first degree murder. And after her arrest, the Perry police chief specifically pointed out that Iowa does have a safe haven law. And under that law, a parent or authorized person can safely surrender a baby up to 90 days old at certain designated locations without being prosecuted.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  He said that there were multiple safe haven boxes right there in Perry where an infant could have been safely surrendered, as well as other resources throughout the state for anyone experiencing a crisis pregnancy. Stephanie was booked into the Dallas County Jail where she is currently being held without bail.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  What was the thought process here?

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Well, and I'm thinking you're working at a daycare.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  You know of the safe haven laws.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  You know of the safe haven laws. You've had months of knowing you were pregnant. You've clearly chosen not to tell anyone.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  And why do you think that disposing of your child at the, in the trash can, nobody's going to find out?

• 50:48Speaker 03

  And there's all this bleeding and you're going to the hospital and there's not going to be the dots connected. That's where sometimes I'm like, are you out of your mind? Like at that point, and you just are panicked and have no idea what's going on. But it always just, I mean, all of these cases are devastating and so sad to read. But when I was first looking at this, I had to stop myself because I'm just thinking like, you're hearing your baby crying, like. Just how do you do that?

• 51:14Speaker 00

  You're making an active decision to end their life.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  I don't understand it. Like, take the consequence and surrender your baby and like, I, it just makes no sense to me. And again, you have months of planning to decide what you're gonna do and make the right decision.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  Which there isn't even a consequence to surrender your baby safe haven.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Well, I just mean your mental consequence of knowing you gave up a baby, but you're knowing you killed a baby instead. I just...

• 51:39Speaker 00

  People are sick.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  And I can't even imagine being at a daycare center and like now you have all these children around and this is happening and it just,

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  It's devastating.

• 51:51Speaker 00

  Well, there's also somebody else that I want to talk about today. Caleb Flynn. Now, this guy, first of all, I covered this for the first time when it first happened months and months and months ago, but this guy's ugly face has been all over my feed because his trial is happening right now and we got a new villain in town. Okay, everybody. Everybody thought JP Miller was the villain, Micah Miller's ex-husband? No, this guy is the new villain. Like JP Miller walked so Caleb Flynn could run. And when I tell you the cringey ass behavior and facial expressions that he is portraying in this trial, his fake tears, his fake heartbreak, I'm like, bro, you are such a loser.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  You're not fooling anyone.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  Not fooling a damn person. So this trial seems to be going viral, which kind of surprised me, but I guess everybody now is like, it's like trial talk.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  People weren't really interested in the beginning.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  No, they weren't at all. Like, and I did the deep dive into this case, which still exists out there. I will link it, but there was so much backstory too. The mistresses, the church, all of these things. And nobody, and he was on American Idol at one point and nobody really was interested, but I think people now since the Lindsay Clancy trial are so captivated by trial footage that people are looking for the next trial to watch. And so I think that's why it's gaining traction because not only is it a devastating case, but also pretty wild that this guy thought he was going to get away with it. So let's start by talking about him a little bit, just to give you a little bit of quick backstory. In the early morning hours of February 16th, 2026, Caleb called 911 from his home in Tip City, Ohio.

• 53:34Speaker 00

  He said that somebody had broken into his house and shot his wife. Now, when police got there, they found 27-year-old Ashley Flynn dead from multiple gunshot wounds. And making this even more tragic is Caleb and Ashley's two young daughters were inside the house when this happened. And look, there was a lot of weird body cam footage. I think I'm going to release that too over on YouTube where he was like calling the mom and he was crying and like fake throwing up and just like cringe behavior. It wasn't fooling anyone because three days later Caleb was arrested and charged with murder, two counts of felonious assault and two counts of tampering with evidence. And this did at the time break the headlines for a moment, not because Caleb was a pastor at a local church,

• 54:19Speaker 00

  but more so because he was a former contestant of American Idol. So a lot of people had recognized him right away. At his arraignment, he pleaded not guilty and he had been held on a $2 million bond since his arrest. Now, if you do remember when this story first broke, Caleb's 911 call was everywhere. His story was that an intruder had gotten into the house, made their way to the bedroom, shot Ashley, then somehow got back out without ever being identified. And people were really ripping him apart, saying that he sounded suspicious out off the jump, just based on that alone. And I'm gonna play the 911 call for you right now in case you haven't heard it. So take a listen.

• 55:01Speaker 07

  Miami County 911. Oh my, somebody, somebody broke into my home. Somebody broke into my home and shot my wife. Are they still in there? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, what's the address? 932 County Ham Court, Tip City, Ohio. Please, please hurry, please, please hurry. What are, what are you seeing? My wife, she's, she's got two shots to her head, there's blood everywhere. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Sir, please, please, please. Ma'am, I need you to take a deep breath, okay? Do you still see anybody in the house? No, the door to the garage was wide open. Please hurry, please. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. My daughter's here. My, my daughter's here. Where's she at?

• 55:46Speaker 07

  She's in the bed. She's in the bed. Are you with her? Yeah, I am in the room. I'm looking at her. Yes, please. Okay, you guys have the door locked? We have the, the doors to the garage locked and she's in the house. Yes, please. My God, my God.

• 56:05Speaker 07

  Where, where is that room out in the house? My partner's getting them dispatched, okay, but I need you to answer my questions so I can get you help as fast as I can, okay? What, what question? Where are you guys at in the house? I'm in the bedroom with her right now. My daughter's in their room. So you're not, you are not with the children? I was with the children when it happened. Okay, but you're not with them now? No, they're in their room. They're not even awake. Oh my God, oh my God. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Sir, please, please, please. They're, they are heading that way, okay? I need you to take a deep breath for me. Are you hearing anything?

• 56:47Speaker 07

  No, I, I rubbed her leg and said her name. She's not answering.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  So now that the trial has started, prosecutors are laying out what they believe actually happened that night. And a huge part of their case is Caleb's alleged affair. And not only the alleged affair, I don't know if you saw this, but opening statements were read that, or I'm sorry, opening statements were text messages that he sent to his mistress. That, which I thought, oh my God, what a fucking genius this prosecutor is. Like, he opened it up not by identifying that they were text messages, but just reading the text verbatim, verbatim, and then being like, those are the text messages that Caleb Flynn sent his mistress leading up to Ashley's death. And I'm like, oh, he, he's cooked. He is cooked.

• 57:34Speaker 00

  So prosecutors say that Caleb had been having an affair for about a year before Ashley's death. And that during that time, he and his mistress exchanged more than 100,000 text messages. And some of those messages look really bad for Caleb. Months before Ashley was killed, Caleb allegedly told his mistress, quote, "I was up until 4 a.m. last night crying, literally trying to think of ways to kill her and not go to jail." He also allegedly said that he would kill Ashley, quote, "in a heartbeat if he knew that he wouldn't go to hell." And then just hours before Ashley was killed, prosecutors say that Caleb sent his mistress another message, saying, quote, "I choose you. I'm free. Actions will come tomorrow."

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Well, lucky you.

• 58:18Speaker 00

  Let me just say, why is it always a pastor? Okay, first of all, who has like really bad behavior? But also, when are people going to learn your phone is a digital blueprint, you moron? Like, the Google history, the text history, you think that like texting, "Oh, I'm trying, I'm crying right now," which is first of all, so cringe and embarrassing, but like, "I'm crying because I'm literally just trying to think of ways to kill her, ways where I won't go to jail." Well, if you really are trying to think of ways to kill her and not go to jail, uh, maybe don't text about it, you frickin' moron.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  And like, this mistress, don't even get me started.

• 58:54Speaker 00

  I know. Being, when you can't, when you are a mistress in a situation, be an Amber Frye. Don't be Nicole Kessinger, be an Amber Frye.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  When you hear him thinking of ways how to kill my wife, see that as a red flag and turn him into authorities.

• 59:08Speaker 00

  Exactly. And as we know, shortly after this, these text messages, Ashley was then found shot in the back of the head the following morning after the "I'm free" text message. So prosecutors also told the jury that Caleb normally kept a 9mm handgun inside the center console of his truck. But when police arrived that morning, the console was open and the gun was gone, which to this day, the gun has still not been found. Now, the defense isn't denying the affair because hello, obviously you can't. They're not even denying that Caleb sent some really horrible messages about Ashley. Their argument is basically, being a terrible husband does not automatically make you a murderer, which yes, fair point, true.

• 59:49Speaker 00

  However, when you're sending messages to your mistress about wanting to be with her, wanting to be free, wanting to kill your wife, your gun is mysteriously missing, that's a lot of circumstantial evidence that I would indicate makes your client very absolutely capable of murder. They also said that there were plenty of loving messages exchanged between Caleb and Ashley. And that some of the things that Caleb said to his mistress were meant to appease her while he was talking about potentially getting a divorce. And I'm sure that there were loving messages. We all heard Scott Peterson in his famous voicemail to Lacey on the morning that he killed her being like, "Hey honey, just love you so much. Can't wait to see you. Do you need me to pick anything up? How's the pie?"

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  Or like whatever he said. It's like, yeah, because he's not only going to try to cover his tracks and build a story, but he's also not trying to spook her or make her think that anything's wrong within the marriage. Like, duh, I hope every single juror that is seated sees that, but they're also arguing that investigators decided Caleb was responsible way too quickly. And then they just built their case around that theory. They pointed out that there was allegedly no gunshot residue found on Caleb or his clothing, that there is no murder weapon, and they say that there is no definitive forensic evidence proving that Caleb fired the shots. Then after opening statements, jurors were actually taken to Caleb and Ashley's house to see the scene for themselves. And then back in court, they heard Caleb's 911 call, which I already played for you,

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  and they watched the body cam footage from the officers who arrived that morning. And I really do think I am going to post that footage because it, well, actually, I think it's in the deep dive. It is so embarrassing when you look back knowing what we know now. So over the first two days of testimony, prosecutors really started picking apart Caleb's intruder story. Investigators testified that they found no evidence of forced entry through the garage. They also believe that parts of the scene were staged to make it look like someone had broken in. And a refrigerator that had been blocking the garage door also appeared to have been moved from inside the house. So let's just look at this devil's advocate for a moment. You're telling me this random intruder didn't break into the house. There's no signs of forced entry.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  He went into your center console in your truck, knew you had a gun there, grabbed your gun, left the center console thing open, went into the house, moved your refrigerator, that is, I'm sure extremely heavy, pushed it to the side for whatever reason, didn't make a peep, went up, shot only Ashley, not you, not the kids, didn't steal anything, didn't make a mess, and then just left into the night.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  With no motive.

• 1:02:24Speaker 00

  With no motive. Okay. So then they moved on to Ashley's injuries specifically. Based on the position of her body and the blood patterns at the scene, investigators testified that Ashley appeared to have been lying completely still, possibly asleep, when she was shot. There were no obvious signs of a struggle and her autopsy showed that she had been shot twice in the back of the head at close range. And this whole time, like I said, Caleb was crying in court. And these videos, it looks so staged, so fake, so performative. It's unbelievable. He cried throughout the 911 call, the body cam footage, while photos from the scene were shown to the jury. But like I said, it looks like he's kind of trying to squeeze any tear he can.

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  I bet he wished he had like Visine in there that he could just dribble drabble onto his cheek. And it looked so performative and just embarrassing. Then the investigators, of course, circled back to the missing gun. And again, Caleb reportedly kept that handgun in the center console of his truck. However, that morning, the console was wide open and that gun was missing. Police also said they found a wireless security camera that was hidden underneath the television in the living room, which I'm definitely more interested to hear more about that as the trial continues. Maybe at the time of this episode being released, we will have heard more about that. But it could be something totally normal, like a baby monitor, or I have cameras throughout my house, like not everywhere, but like covering a lot of like the vantage points that you need to see, right?

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  So it could have been something to like, keep an eye on the kids, some sort of indoor camera, a nanny cam while they were gone, who knows? But some people also wonder, oh, was this camera placed there by Caleb? Was he watching Ashley? And like I said, coming right off the heels of JP Miller, Caleb has now become the internet's newest pastor villain. Everybody's watching this right now. Everybody's glued to it. Maybe, I already did the deep dive, which was only a couple of months ago, so I will link that. Maybe I will do an updated one with the bombshells coming out in the trial. Let me know if you guys want that. And there's also, like I said, a lot of body cam footage. But like I said earlier, he's a pastor like JP Miller. He's a scumbag like JP Miller.

• 1:04:34Speaker 00

  And speaking of JP Miller, we also released a deep dive on him this week. I did a deep dive on the Micah Miller case, death of the pastor, or death of, I wish it was death of the pastor, and death of the pastor's wife on Netflix a few weeks back. However, this week, I decided to rip JP apart and do a full JP Miller expose, going through his whole shady backstory, his dad's shady backstory, everything he's done, all the messages, all of that. So I just felt like, let's really drag this piece of shit. So that released on Tuesday and you can go listen to that now as well.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  You assigned that as homework for me on my trip and I did watch.

• 1:05:10Speaker 00

  You did your homework.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  And you're right, they did leave out a lot.

• 1:05:12Speaker 00

  They left out so much.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  I know, I couldn't believe it.

• 1:05:15Speaker 00

  And a lot about his backstory, which that's why I felt like, I was like, you know, I'm doing the deep dive of what Netflix missed as a whole. But now, let's really drag this guy. Let's like, show the world who this monster truly is. Um, speaking of other deep dives you can go listen to this week, I did watch the 60 Minutes Patrick Clancy interview, the 14 Minutes Patrick Clancy interview. I do have some thoughts that I don't think other people will see coming. And that I think, not our hot takes, but things that definitely didn't really sit right with me. And I put that out on, what day was it? Monday? I recorded it originally on Sunday, right after the interview. I even made it a point to watch the interview Eastern time.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  And then my mic wasn't on tight. So I recorded it again on Monday. And because it's technically an Annie rant, where it's not scripted, it's not filtered. I mess up. I kind of just speak very uncensored. It is only available on Patreon and also on Apple Podcasts. Um, it's under the Annie plus subscription, because anytime I do an Annie rant, it's more just off the cuff Annie, me just talking like I'd be talking with you. Just a lot of F bombs get dropped, but a lot of real thoughts get dropped. So I feel like I need to protect it a little bit more.

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Speaker 00

  We don't want all.

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  It's a little more wild.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  We don't want those thoughts just living out there for the public scrutiny and living in infamy. Um, so that is available.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  I'm interested to hear that, because you and I haven't talked about that outside of, I can't believe it was 14 minutes.

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  And they promoted it the way they did.

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  Like the clickbaity.

• 1:06:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:53Speaker 00

  Say, I know, but there were some things in it that I was like, don't love that. Don't love that, Rachel. Um, so that is available. So your homework, podcast listeners and YouTube viewers, is if you have not, you have Mondays, KJ Bierman deep dive. Tuesday, uh, Mondays, 60 Minutes, Patrick Clancy recap, unfiltered. Tuesdays, JP Miller expose, dragging him to the depths of hell where he belongs. And your other fourth assignment is to like and subscribe to this episode.

• 1:07:26Speaker 00

  So do that now, if you're watching on YouTube. Other than that, I will keep an eye on this Caleb Flynn stuff. Let me know what you want. Let me know what you guys want to hear from. My DMs are always open on Instagram, at underscore Annie Elise, or at True Crime with Annie.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  How long is this trial for Caleb?

• 1:07:43Speaker 00

  I don't know. That's a good question.

• 1:07:44Speaker 03

  I'm curious to know what his mistress has to say in all of this. And how, and what kind of trouble she's going to get in? Because I hope they hold her accountable.

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  I mean, she, I don't think she can get in trouble, really.

• 1:07:55Speaker 03

  How? You don't have to report if someone says I'm trying to think of how to kill somebody?

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  Maybe an accessory, possibly, but it might be a reach.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  I mean, how could you live with yourself knowing you could have prevented this?

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  You could lie though, and say, oh, I thought he was joking, or this and that. But yeah, I do wonder what she's going to say. Don't sleep with married men. Is that the new? Be nice, don't kill people, just get a divorce. And don't sleep with married men, or in a tribute to.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  I was just gonna say, close your legs.

• 1:08:22Speaker 00

  Close your legs to married men, as Nene would say.

• 1:08:26Speaker 03

  Never thought we'd be quoting Nene leaks on this podcast.

• 1:08:29Speaker 00

  Never thought it. Never thunk it, O'Brien. Well, welcome back.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you for having me.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Bang rub an episode to come back with.

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  We had some positive things to talk about today.

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  Theo got a rainbow fuzzy in his cup at school.

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  Of course he did.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  Which means he did something that was, um, you know, surprising and kind.

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  Of course he did.

• 1:08:49Speaker 00

  That's good news.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  He's an angel.

• 1:08:51Speaker 00

  I know. All right, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. We will be back with you very soon. I will be back with you Monday with an all new deep dive. And like we just said, be nice, don't kill people, just get a divorce, and close your legs to married men. Bye.

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