324: Proof Laken Deleted Photos, Karen Read’s PISSED & DoorDash Driver Delivers Hatchet & Zip Ties

This week on Headline Highlights: Karen Read is back in the news as the O’Keefe family files a wrongful death lawsuit against her. There are new updates in the case of Laken Snelling as the road to trial draws closer. A plumber is accused of trying to hire a hitman to kill his estranged family. A delivery driver receives a chilling order, complete with a hatchet, bleach, and zip ties. And police respond to a disturbing 911 report to discover a 2-year-old boy in a shocking state of decomposition…🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks 🔎 Join The Club: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to EXTRA deep dive episodes every week on Apple!https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164🚩Announcements🚩Want to Catch Annie LIVE on Tour? 🎤 🎟Grab your tickets now for a city near you: https://annieelise.com/pages/tour🌸MERCH IS OFFICIALLY HERE! 🌸Shop now at https://annieelise.com/collections/shop-allDon't miss out before your faves sell out! 🛒🌷Follow Annie on Socials 📸 🩷Instagram: @ _annieelise, https://www.instagram.com/_annieelise/?hl=en💜TikTok: @_annieelise, https://www.tiktok.com/@_annieelise?lang=en🗞️ Substack: @annieelise, https://substack.com/@annieelise💙Facebook: @10tolife, https://www.facebook.com/10toLIFE⭐️Sponsors ⭐️Kachava: Go to http://kachava.com and use code AE for 15% off on your next order. Shop Annie’s Closet & Must-Haves! 👗Poshmark: https://posh.mk/Tdbki6Ae0RbShopMY: https://shopmy.us/annieeliseAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/shop/10tolife?ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_aipsfshop_BKN1ZMCMEZHACVFQ2R75&language=en_USDisclaimer ‣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me.🎙️ Follow the podcast for FREE on all podcast platforms! Apple:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/6HdheEH8WeMTHoe5da34qUAll Other Platforms: https://audioboom.com/channels/5100770-serialously-with-annie-eliseGet Involved or Recommend the Case 💬 About Annie: https://annieelise.com/For Business Inquiries: [email protected] Sources 🔗ABC NewsABC7 Los AngelesIndyStarKFOXKTVULos Angeles TimesMassLiveNew York PostPeople.comWBTVWBDJ7WISH-TVWKYTWTHR*Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. ••••••••••••••••••Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:46Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleep.

• 2:09Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist Lee. With me, your true crime bestie, Annie Elise, here to break down everything that is going down in the true crime world this week. And like I always say, I feel like now it's just kind of a part of the intro. There is a lot to talk about. We've got new cases, breaking cases, updates in cases, so much to go over. However, before I jump into some of the like, big updates that I want to give you, I want to give you a quick reminder. Hitting the road again next week, back out on tour. We are down to our final five shows. And next week, we are going to be in Tampa, Florida and Orlando, Florida. I think Tampa might be sold out. Don't quote me on that. There and there. I think the meet and

• 2:53Annie Elise?

  greets maybe have two left. Anyways, very few tickets left. So go to AnnieElise.com now. Get those tickets. I will see you next week in Tampa and in Orlando. And then the week after, or maybe it's a week and a half later, Tacoma, Washington, Portland, Oregon, and San Francisco. So you can get those tickets as well. Right now, actually Tacoma is sold out. I hate to break it to you. So again, if you want to go, guys, the final five shows, I don't think I'll be going back out on tour next year. We'll probably wait a full year. So now would be the time to snag those tickets and hang with me in person while we talk about some cases face to face. So that being said, I want to first get into

• 3:34Annie Elise?

  an update in the Karen Reed story and Karen Reed case. And I actually wasn't expecting to jump on the mic and give you any sort of updates regarding Karen in the near future. But here we are. So she is back in court. This time, it's because she's facing a wrongful death lawsuit from John O'Keefe's family. This was filed back in August of 2024. The O'Keefe family, for those of you who aren't familiar, I don't think I need to give the whole backstory. I think most of you guys know about the Karen Reed case, but John O'Keefe was her boyfriend who was unfortunately killed that night. So the O'Keefe family said that Karen had caused them emotional distress. By quote, fabricating her own conspiracy, you know, fabricating her own thoughts and story

• 4:15Annie Elise?

  about what ultimately led up to John's death. And also for quote, launching a public campaign of disinformation. Now Karen's attorney, Alan Jackson, asked the court to dismiss part of the lawsuit, saying, you know, they don't have the standing to pursue emotional distress or damages because they didn't witness John O'Keefe's death or see his body until after he had already been declared dead at the hospital. So the judge is taking both sides into consideration and he will give his ruling at a later date. The next hearing is scheduled for November 21st. But in lieu of that, or not even in lieu of that, but I should say like, what's the expression?

• 4:54Annie Elise?

  Opposite of that, or sidestep to that. I don't really know what term is, but adjacent to that. That's what we'll say. Alan Jackson also confirmed that Karen plans to sue the Massachusetts State Police, as well as many people who testified as witnesses in her trial earlier this year. Some of those people, just to name a few, Michael Proctor, otherwise known as the biggest douchebag who ever walked the face of the earth, Brian Albert, Nicole Albert, Matthew McCabe, Jennifer McCabe, and Brian Higgins. So it's going to be really interesting to see how this all shakes out. And what's so crazy too about this, obviously this case was extremely polarizing for a ton of different reasons, but there's now book deals in place, movie deals in place, TV series in

• 5:39Annie Elise?

  place, all while these civil lawsuits are also still ongoing. And I wonder what's going to happen with all of these lawsuits. I understand wanting to recoup some of the money, or, you know, being upset and angry because of your perception of how things transpired and how it was a smear campaign against you and how all these witnesses were lying. And the truth is, a lot of them did frickin lie, right? I mean, talk about the butt dials that happened nonstop in the middle of the night, or deleted phone history, deleted searches, all sorts of things like destroyed cell phones. Like, it looks shady, right? So I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see what happens here if Karen gets any wins.

• 6:20Annie Elise?

  With the civil lawsuits, I think we already know she won in the criminal case. So like, let's see what happens here. And I wonder too, in those, if we will at all learn any additional information that maybe wasn't allowed to be entered during the trial. I don't know what that would necessarily be. I'm not an expert. I'm not her attorney, but wondering if like, as they go against, you know, the McCabe's or Higgins, is there going to be other information that surfaces or is brought to light in terms of their communications or anything like that? So I don't know. It's a lot to keep up with. So I will be keeping my eye on it. Now, in other news, I want to talk with you about Laken Snelling for a minute. Now, as a reminder,

• 7:02Annie Elise?

  Laken Snelling is a 21-year-old former University of Kentucky student, and also she was on the stunt cheer team. And she is from White Pine, Tennessee. So she's currently the subject of an ongoing criminal investigation after a newborn infant was found dead inside a closet at a Lexington, Kentucky residence that Laken lived in. This was back on August 27, 2025. Now, it was unknown if this baby was born full-term, stillborn, if there was any sort of issue with the delivery. We don't really know what took place. An autopsy was completed, but the coroner had described the cause of death as inconclusive, saying it was pending further analysis. But in the meantime,

• 7:45Annie Elise?

  after Laken delivered this baby, shoved him inside a closet, and he was discovered, she's been arrested and charged with abuse of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence, and concealing the birth of an infant. Now, we've talked about this before. I think we even actually did a deep dive into this. I know we've talked about this case on headline highlights. Maybe we did a deep dive. If we did do a deep dive, I will link it in the show notes. But anyway, if you want to catch up, you could probably just search my name and Laken Snelling and get the whole story. I wanted to give you just like, you know, a little snip of the backstory, because now new court documents have been released, and they detail Laken's account of giving birth. So the Lexington Police Department reports that in a search warrant for Laken's phone, they found evidence that, quote, "included..."

• 8:30Annie Elise?

  Different things pertaining to pregnancy, images of her during labor, photos of her doing things ordinary pregnant woman should not be doing, and also a concealed or hidden pregnancy. They also believe that other pieces of information may have been deleted relating to the pregnancy and related to, quote, "the birth of the full-term baby." Because that's really been the million-dollar question through all of this. Was she full-term? Was she hiding her pregnancy? Was she trying to hide the delivery of this baby? What really happened and what transpired? Because while she didn't make any formal announcement on social media, there certainly were images where she had her hand on her baby bump, where her boyfriend did at one point, too.

• 9:14Annie Elise?

  In some images and videos, she looked visibly pregnant. But again, there was no formal announcement. So there's this undertone argument of she either didn't know she was pregnant, or she did, but she wasn't telling anybody, and then the delivery went south and the baby unfortunately was born stillborn. There's all sorts of things. And because the autopsy hasn't been able to determine what actually happened and what the cause of death was, she hasn't been charged with murder. And it's kind of been this whole thing where they're trying to just unravel the case and figure out as many details as they can. So going back to the discovery of it all, Laken's roommates apparently had heard a loud noise after she had given birth. This was around 4:00 a.m. on August 27th.

• 9:59Annie Elise?

  But Laken told them that she just wasn't feeling good and that she passed out in the middle of the night. Later, Laken told medical staff that after giving birth, the baby, quote, "made a whimper" and that she, quote, "guessed that he was alive." However, she then told the police that she didn't think that he was alive. She went on to say that she passed out, she fell on top of the baby, and that when she woke up, he was, quote, "turning blue and purple." So because of that, she wrapped him in a towel because she, according to her, thought that he was dead. And then she laid with him on the floor because, according to her, it, quote, "gave her some comfort in that moment." Then, as we know, she got up, put the baby, still wrapped In that towel, inside a trash bag, and then set it in the back of the closet.

• 10:45Annie Elise?

  That baby was then later discovered by the roommate after a dog had been scratching at the closet door, alerting her to something, and they opened the door. There was a very foul odor. They discovered the baby, and that's who I believe called the police was the roommate. So it's really interesting because we know that devices, especially when the forensic team gets involved, they carry a lot of information, right? I'm not talking about just the photos and the videos, which they are saying have been deleted, but they've recovered, but any sort of digital communication with her boyfriend or her ex-boyfriend, any sort of search history about pregnancy, about hiding pregnancy, about delivering at home. Devices carry just like an enormous amount of information. So I think we're just scratching the surface here.

• 11:29Annie Elise?

  I think we're going to find out a lot more in the coming weeks and months. So I will definitely keep an eye out. Reporters have been saying that the grand jury could consider the case in as early as October, so this month, but no specific grand jury date has been set, and there has been no public court date released either. So just going to kind of wait and see, I guess, and keep our eyes on it and see where we go from here. But obviously, very unsettling and disturbing. Um, with that, we have some new cases that I want to bring to your attention this week. And I also am thrilled to announce that Amy Colette is back in studio, joining us.

• 12:09Speaker 06

  Wow, got the middle name.

• 12:11Annie Elise?

  Little formal, I don't know, a little formal. Don't worry, guys, I see all your comments all the time, just blowing me up. Where's Amy? Where's Amy? So Amy's back, and there's actually a story that she DM'd me over the weekend that she's like, uh, I want to talk to you about this, it's crazy. I'm all, well, don't talk to me about it. Talk to the true crime besties about it. So, yeah, welcome back.

• 12:29Speaker 06

  Thanks, thanks for having me.

• 12:31Annie Elise?

  Yeah, so hit us with this story.

• 12:34Speaker 06

  All right, well, they say never trust a guy or a person with two first names.

• 12:39Annie Elise?

  Oh, that is true.

• 12:40Speaker 06

  This person has the same first and last name. This is Mohammed Mohammed out of Hoover, Alabama, who has been charged with a murder-for-hire for his whole family, which it's just as crazy as it sounds. He's a 64-year-old man who lived in Alabama and had been married in 2021, divorced just a few months later, and had six adult children. He was a plumber who ran his own business, and by all outward appearances, he seemed just to be a small business owner trying to make a living. But in September of 2024, he was caught in the middle of an unthinkable plot to have his entire family murdered. Mohammed sat down across from a man who he believed was a hitman, classic,

• 13:25Speaker 06

  and began discussing how much it would cost him to have his wife and six children killed. So yeah, you heard that right. His own family, all of them. And the reasoning is he told the hitman he felt his family had, quote-unquote, "destroyed his pride and self-dignity." Mohammed said that he would pay $20,000 for the murder of his wife and an additional $5,000 for each of his six children. His words were, quote, "Your money maximum within two weeks. 20, not 5. 20 because it's the big head. The others, it's okay. They are trash. Cockroaches, you know. But this one deserves more. I'll give it to you." Mohammed gave him their addresses, descriptions of their vehicles, and said,

• 14:08Speaker 06

  "You pick and choose who you're gonna take out and get paid. Start with one, take your time." What Mohammed didn't know was that the man he thought he was hiring for the hit on his family was actually an undercover FBI agent. They had set up the plan after they had received information that Mohammed had already asked one person to kill his family. In fact, he asked this person multiple times. They started investigating, organized this meeting, and Mohammed never realized he was dealing with law enforcement the entire Time. So eventually he was arrested and charged with seven counts of murder for hire, one count for each of the intended victims. Each count carries up to 10 years in federal prison, meaning he could be facing up to 70 years behind bars.

• 14:51Speaker 06

  The complete premeditation here is obvious. I mean, he wasn't acting just suddenly on impulse. He had asked one person when that person said no. Then he went and asked this other person and sat down, calculated and had this whole plan to have seven people murdered. It's the kind of thing that makes you step back and just think like, how did this get to this point? And where red flags really started going off is when you look back at some of the other incidents that happened to his family. Things were not always as they appeared from the outside looking in. In April of 2022, Mohammed was arrested and charged with stalking after he allegedly placed GPS tracking devices in his ex-wife's car, violating a restraining order she had against him.

• 15:35Speaker 06

  Then in January 2023, less than a year later, his son's pickup truck was set on fire near the driveway of his ex-wife's home. And if you're thinking, wow, this guy really had it out for them. That's not all because after his first son's track was set on fire in September of 2023, another one of his son's vehicles and three others were found burned in a suspicious fire. Things calmed down for a few months and then in December 2023, a friend of Mohammed's had called his ex-wife, trying to reconcile their marriage. She obviously declined and only 12 hours later, another vehicle at her house was set on fire. So obviously this guy is psychotic.

• 16:18Speaker 06

  That six cars set on fire at his ex-wife's house and at least three of them belonged to his children, which is crazy. So this guy obviously seems psychotic. I mean, he's had six cars set on fire at his ex-wife's house, three of which were belonging to his children. And while we don't know is for sure him, it seems pretty suspicious. And so right now Mohammed is in federal custody, waiting for a sentencing after pleading guilty. That sentencing is set to happen on December 10th. And this case has drawn national attention, as you could imagine, because of how extreme it is. So we'll be on the lookout for sentencing in the next few months and bring you up to date when we have it. But it's a wild one.

• 16:58Annie Elise?

  What a freak.

• 16:59Speaker 06

  I know.

• 16:59Annie Elise?

  First of all, I'm glad he pled guilty. I mean, I

• 17:02Speaker 06

  And I just want to know what the motive is.

• 17:04Annie Elise?

  No, I know. And to call your own kids cockroaches, get a grip.

• 17:08Speaker 06

  And what'd they do to take away your pride?

• 17:10Annie Elise?

  I mean, maybe it's because Mohammed Mohammed, don't call me Annie Annie.

• 17:14Speaker 06

  I mean, I feel like go after your parents, not your kids.

• 17:17Annie Elise?

  No, 100%. Well, yeah. What did he say? It was like his pride and dignity or something like that, which like, bro, get a grip. I know. I don't know. That's really sick and sad, but I'm glad he pled guilty and I'm glad that like, yeah, throw away the key. We don't want you around.

• 17:38Annie Elise?

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• 18:21Annie Elise?

  Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details.

• 18:35Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Gabby Wendy with Long Winded and I'm not gonna lie, I'm desperate. I'm desperate for your attention in any way possible, so listen to my podcast, won't you? It has great insights, exceptional humor, and plenty of pop culture to fill your dark souls. And some even say it's a great way to fall asleep due to my soothing voice. And I don't take that personally. Fall asleep. A listen is a listen, even when you're sleeping. And a view is a view, even with your eyes closed. If you dare, and it doesn't take much gumption. Enjoy. Listen to Longwinded wherever you get your podcasts.

• 19:23Annie Elise?

  Okay, so now we need to get into another wild and weird story. And when I first heard this, I was kind of like, am I reading this right? Is this real? What would I do in this situation? It is freaking me out. So picture this. You're a delivery driver in west central Texas. It's a Monday morning, just another routine, you know, drop off, dropping off the goods at somebody's house or place of residence, whatever. But when you pull up to the Sweetwater Inn and check the order that you're delivering, it's not food. It's not even something mildly weird, like toilet paper in bulk or weird, you know, rubber bands from CVS. I just ordered rubber bands. That's why I'm saying that. But it's garbage bags, it's zip ties, it's bleach, and it's a hatchet. Yeah, a freaking hatchet.

• 20:08Annie Elise?

  So immediately, alarm bells started going off, right? I mean, this driver knew that something wasn't right. And instead of just shrugging it off and moving on with his day, he called it in. And it was a decision that may have saved a life. So the police rushed to this motel, and it was just before noon. They look at the order, look at the contents, and then they look at who placed the order. And it was placed by a 42-year-old man named Neil Cooper. So when officers knocked on this motel room door, Neil refused to come out. He claimed that he was armed. And then came the chilling detail in all of this. There was somebody possibly inside that motel room with him. So now you have this deranged freak barricading himself inside this motel room who just ordered a hatchet, zip ties, and bleach,

• 20:53Annie Elise?

  somebody else in that room with him, all while he's refusing To open the door, come out. I mean, it's a hostage situation, right? Now, at this point, officers knew they had to slow everything down. So they began negotiating. They were trying to keep Neil talking. They were trying to just keep things calm. But while they were outside and they were tense and they were waiting and they were trying to like move through everything appropriately, the hostage makes a move. Somehow, they managed to escape the room and just run out and bolt to safety, which, thank God. But that's when Texas Department of Public Safety stepped in. They sent in a crisis negotiator who was then able to convince Neil to surrender and surrender peacefully.

• 21:33Annie Elise?

  No shots fired, nobody hurt, which is great because as we know in this situation, it certainly could have ended in tragedy. But instead, it ended in handcuffs on good old Neil. Neil was arrested on the spot and charged with aggravated kidnapping. But that wasn't all in all of this, because it turns out he also had multiple drug warrants out for him. And then with all of this unfolding, in comes a twist that nobody saw coming. That so-called hostage, the one that booked it and ran to safety, they weren't just a victim. Police say that that person also had a warrant. And when officers asked this hostage victim for their identity, they flat out refused. Just said, "No, I'm not giving you my name. I'm not giving you my ID. Like, get out of my face."

• 22:18Annie Elise?

  So they ended up being arrested too, on failure to ID and for their own pending drug charges. So in the end, I mean, it's just really interesting, right? Because you have this motel standoff, a hostage escape, two arrests, and this massive, massive thank you that is owed to this quick-thinking delivery driver who's like, these, the contents of this bag is freaking weird, which I am just gonna say really quick. This story has certainly given me pause in what I order on DoorDash, because I'm not somebody who just will DoorDash or Postmate food. I am such a troll that I'll have them send me all sorts of things. Like I said, I just placed an order the other day for rubber bands at CVS, and I did have trash bags, I guess, in that order too. What else did I have? Oh, I had Bunch of Crunch for, because I wanted chocolate.

• 23:04Annie Elise?

  You know what I mean? Like, maybe there are innocent deliveries, but it looks really bad when you look into. I mean, I've never ordered a hatchet, so maybe I'm just like talking for fucking no reason. But anyway, I know I've referred to the driver as a DoorDash delivery driver this whole time, but it turns out he wasn't a DoorDash delivery driver. He was just an independent delivery worker, someone who really trusted his gut at the end of the day and refused to ignore the red flags and sprung into action and called the police. Because again, here's the thing, like, how many times have we been in a situation where there's been like weird vibes? And we brush them off and we tell ourselves like, oh, no, no, no, like, it's nothing. I'm overreacting. I'm paranoid. But this time, that suspicion really paid off because who knows what would have happened in that hostage situation?

• 23:47Annie Elise?

  It seems like both of them were possibly on drugs or something like that, but who knows what could have happened? I mean, clearly he was ordering bleach, zip ties, and a hatchet for a reason. So they got the victim out of there. They got a safe surrender from Neil. And this guy did the right thing, which sounds cliche, but I'm gonna say it again. Always trust your gut because it is there to act as your first line of defense against anything and everything. It kind of makes me think-

• 24:12Speaker 06

  That was such a mom thing to say right now. I'm like, wow, first line of defense.

• 24:16Annie Elise?

  Well, it is so true. And you know what? I don't know if you were thinking of this as I was sharing that story. Do you remember what happened in Phoenix last year?

• 24:24Speaker 06

  I wasn't thinking about it, but I do remember.

• 24:26Annie Elise?

  So it wasn't a delivery driver, guys, but we called an Uber to pick us up from my Phoenix show last year. And I don't even remember exactly what happened, but right from the jump, it was super sketchy.

• 24:39Speaker 06

  He was sweating.

• 24:40Annie Elise?

  I had to get in the front seat for some reason, right?

• 24:42Speaker 06

  Well, we thought you were gonna have to get in the front seat because we had the Pelican cases, but then we've configured the seats so you didn't, but then he insisted you still get in the front, which is what made you feel weird.

• 24:52Annie Elise?

  And then it was like a 20-minute drive to the hotel. And yeah, it was late. It was like 11 o'clock at night. And I was sitting in the front seat. It was like dead silent. And I look over and yeah, he's profusely sweating. And it wasn't hot-

• 25:03Speaker 06

  And like uneasy.

• 25:04Annie Elise?

  Like, he was, yeah, he was uneasy. His eyes kept like tracking like to the side of the highway. Then at me in the passenger seat and he's like sweaty and I was like, I don't get super nervous all the time, but I was like getting really nervous.

• 25:17Speaker 06

  And I was not clocking it at all.

• 25:19Annie Elise?

  Amy was in the backseat, just like do do do do do, just like.

• 25:21Speaker 06

  I was on my phone.

• 25:22Annie Elise?

  Yeah, scrolling Instagram doom scrolling.

• 25:24Speaker 06

  I'm in a daze sometimes.

• 25:26Annie Elise?

  Had no idea. So then all of a sudden I say, what did I say? I was all, you have the scissors or you have the blade, right?

• 25:33Speaker 06

  Or like you have the knife or the box cutter.

• 25:36Annie Elise?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 06

  And I'm like, what is she talking about?

• 25:38Annie Elise?

  Yeah. Well, you have the box cutter, right? She's all huh? And then like I was trying to give like sister, like, what is it? Not like innuendos? Is that the word? I don't know. But like trying to get you to pick up on what I was feeling and I'm all, you know, the box cutter and the scissors, you have those with you, right? And like trying, that's gonna scare this guy if he's gonna kidnap us and murder us. Um, no, but then it got even weirder because you finally clocked what I was doing.

• 26:02Speaker 06

  Yeah. And we, we took the story to a whole new level. And then I see Annie like putting her hand on the glass bottle next to her.

• 26:09Annie Elise?

  Oh, my.

• 26:09Speaker 06

  Or no, that was, maybe that was me that reached for the glass bottle.

• 26:12Annie Elise?

  Glass water bottle.

• 26:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:13Annie Elise?

  And you were holding it by the head, like the neck of the bottle. I guess if we were gonna have to crack him over the head.

• 26:17Speaker 06

  What had initially made you scared? So I thought maybe something really serious had happened that I wasn't aware of. So I was just ready to go. I had your back, girl.

• 26:26Annie Elise?

  Well, and then we called our friend Chuck, my, uh, husband's best friend who was with, he lives in Phoenix and he was with us that night. Um, filming. And so I'm like, yeah, are you tracking me? Like, we'll be there in 10 minutes. Is everybody waiting for us? Like, all this stuff, just like totally like doing anything we could to like make this guy nervous to like act out on anything. But then, so we get to the hotel and we get out of the car. Amy's unloading the Pelican case, which those of you who don't know what a Pelican case, it's like this big ass, like black Rubbermaid container. And we brought it with us on tour with like merch and things like that. So she's like unloading, the guy gets out of the car to help us unload the bags. Then do you.

• 27:05Speaker 06

  Annie embraces him for a hug.

• 27:07Annie Elise?

  Hold on. No, I did not embrace him for a hug. Rewind. He, remember he was like, he wanted a really good tip. And so he literally stood over my shoulder. And may and watched me in the app, give him a tip and a rating to make sure I was giving him five stars and like a good tip. And I was like scared out of my mind because I was like, even though we're back at the hotel, like you could still do something to me. So I'm gonna, I think I tipped him like 50 bucks or something like that. And then he was so overjoyed by the tip that he gives me this massive hug.

• 27:38Speaker 06

  That's when I look up and that I, we go from terrified and calling our friends to Annie's giving the guy a hug. I'm like, can we just please go inside?

• 27:48Annie Elise?

  And he was still sweaty, which was disgusting. And yeah, I like gave him this big tip, but don't worry afterwards, I like contacted Uber. I'm like, this guy's maybe it's nothing, but like he freaked me out a little bit. And I think we ordered Big Macs and went up to the room.

• 28:00Speaker 06

  Typical.

• 28:01Annie Elise?

  A fountain Diet Coke and a Big Mac and.

• 28:03Speaker 06

  And all was well.

• 28:04Annie Elise?

  And all was well again in the world. No, so I don't know what that has to do with DoorDash, but or this delivery driver story, but it just kind of.

• 28:13Speaker 06

  I Door dashed the Big Macs.

• 28:14Annie Elise?

  We for sure did. But it kind of just gave me a flashback to that moment where it's like, trust your gut. In that case, thank God it wasn't panning out.

• 28:22Speaker 06

  Long story short.

• 28:23Annie Elise?

  Long story short, if you're ever in a situation where you feel like you're being threatened by an Uber driver, pretend you have a box cutter on you.

• 28:30Speaker 06

  Grab the glass bottle.

• 28:32Annie Elise?

  Grab the glass water bottle by the neck to be prepared for anything to whack someone in the head and get to safety and then overdraft your account by tipping him so big.

• 28:41Speaker 06

  That you're safe, give him a big hug. Stockholm syndrome right there.

• 28:47Annie Elise?

  Honestly, honestly.

• 28:48Speaker 06

  Well, can we get to the next story?

• 28:51Annie Elise?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, go ahead.

• 28:52Speaker 06

  This one's really bizarre. It's a case out of Shelbyville, Indiana, and it's about a 28 year old mom named Sophie Igo. It's tragic. It just honestly leaves you with a lot of questions. On September 17th, just before 11pm, Sophie called 911 saying that her baby was dead and quote, cold to the touch. Police and medics rushed over to the house and when they got there, Sophie was standing in the driveway with her 22 month old son Jasper. Now there are mixed reports on if she was actually holding Jasper or if he was lying in the driveway. But regardless, he was wrapped in a sheet and then when responders got closer, they.

• 29:30Annie Elise?

  Noticed immediately that Jasper had been dead for some time. They tried everything they could to get him to breathe, but there was no way they were able to bring this baby boy back. And that's where things get even more sad and twisted. Investigators described Jasper's body as already being in a quote significant state of decomposition. They also described Jasper as appearing severely malnourished. His little body was so thin that his bones were visible and he had almost no body fat left at all. So the level of decomposition of Jasper's body showed that he hadn't just passed away moments before Sophie made that nine one one call. Like she was trying to make it seem. He had been dead for a while.

• 30:10Annie Elise?

  So when investigators confronted Sophie with this information, how Jasper was clearly dead for a lot longer than she was letting on. She acted shocked. She started asking the investigators, did I do this? Am I going to jail? Now, obviously, something didn't seem right here. How could this mother not know that her son was dead seemingly moments before this nine one one call? So police searched the house to see if they could find any information that might help piece this together. And what they found was horrifying. Inside the house, officers described unsafe, unhealthy conditions for anyone to be living in, especially kids. There was trash everywhere, bugs were crawling over every surface. And there was hoarder-like cluttering all over the house.

• 30:55Annie Elise?

  And what's worse, investigators even found quote decomposing matter inside Jasper's crib. Which is where he would have slept. When investigators interviewed Sophie, she said she had three kids. Jasper, a four-year-old and an eight-year-old. And that all the kids had lived with her since her ex-husband had moved out in November twenty twenty four. She said that she'd been taking care of the kids by herself for the last five weeks. And in just in the last twenty-four hours, Jasper had started throwing up and was having trouble eating. Sophie said that she couldn't take her kids to the doctor because she was still quote unquote trying to get her bearings as a single mom. And that Jasper hadn't been to the doctor since he was two months old. In other words, he hadn't seen a doctor for over a year and a half.

• 31:40Annie Elise?

  And he wasn't even two years old yet. And I mean, I understand parenting is probably very difficult. But when your child is that sick and clearly thin and not gaining weight or even losing weight, that's when you need to call and get help. So if Jasper was just two years old and just shy of that and had not have been to a doctor at all, that just begs the question, like, how long was this all going on? And what was really going on in that house? Now, the full autopsy results have not been released, but we do know that the Shelby County coroner reported that Jasper was only 14 pounds, four pounds more than he weighed when he was only two months old at his last doctor's appointment. As for the cause and manner of death, that information is still pending while the coroner waits for toxicology and other test results to come back.

• 32:26Annie Elise?

  So Sophie is facing multiple counts of child neglect, including level one neglect of a dependent resulting in death. And in Indiana, that's the most serious level of child neglect that someone can be charged with. Her bond has been set at $2 million, and that really tells you just how serious the court's taking it, which is good. And the heartbreaking part of all of this is that Jasper wasn't even two years old yet. So now people are left wondering, like I said earlier, how long has this been going on? Why didn't someone step in sooner? Does the ex-husband know about any of this? And so we'll be tracking this one as well. That is so disgusting for so many reasons. And when you said he was 14 pounds, I was like,

• 33:08Annie Elise?

  it's literally like what he weighed when she came out. So not, not quite, but like, kinda. No, but and then when you said the decomposing matter was found in his crib, I would guess, my guess would be she started neglecting these kids. She didn't want to deal with being a mom. Maybe she went into a depression after her husband left, which that's no excuse. I wonder what the condition of the other two children is and if they look malnourished or if they were taken care of, because maybe it was like the baby that she was resentful of and that because he left. Harder to care for. Yeah. And because if you, if she found decompo, if they found decomposing matter in the crib, I think the argument could be that she obviously left him unattended for.

• 33:50Annie Elise?

  Very long periods of time. That's why you could see his bones. That's why he only weighed 14 pounds and that he literally started decomposing while in that crib, which is so sick and twisted. And like, I wonder what those kids saw. I mean, they're young too, but like, I wonder what they saw in that house.

• 34:07Speaker 06

  I just don't understand why people don't just, if you're not wanting to be a parent, just vocalize that and get help.

• 34:14Annie Elise?

  Yeah. I want, maybe there, maybe there will be more information, like if she was in some sort of psychosis, or not even postpartum psychosis, but something to, because if she said to them, like, did I do this? Am I going to jail? Maybe, like, you know how, I don't know what the term is, but you know how there's like those dolls out there that people have where they like, think it's a real baby, or they do it as like a level of comfort because there's some sort of psychosis, like, that makes them think that they are a parent. Like, I'm wondering, was there something maybe where she like, didn't realize? I don't know. Or like, that was okay?

• 34:44Speaker 06

  Like disassociated from being a parent to that child.

• 34:47Annie Elise?

  But that's why I would be curious to know the condition of the other kids. And like, what, that's fucking awful. Awful. Well, okay, that was a really shitty note to end on. No, that's okay. Um, wow. All right. Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in this week with us. As a reminder, last few tour dates on the calendar. Get those tickets now at AnnieElise.com. Amy will be there too. So you'll get to see her in all her glory, working the booth and

• 35:15Speaker 06

  The booth?

• 35:16Annie Elise?

  Like wheeling and dealing or like, I don't know, isn't it the sound booth?

• 35:19Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 35:21Annie Elise?

  What do you think I said?

• 35:22Speaker 06

  I don't know. I'm like, are we going back to Crime Con?

• 35:24Annie Elise?

  No, I know. Um, I don't know. Whatever. Fuck it. Um, but yeah, so get those tickets now at AnnieElise.com. Also, as a reminder, if you have not listened to Monday's episode yet, I dropped two deep dives on Monday, just feeling so generous this week.

• 35:42Speaker 06

  She never stops.

• 35:43Annie Elise?

  No, honestly, I don't. It's psychotic. No, I, we did a full deep dive into everything going on with the singer David, Celeste Hernandez, the body found in his trunk, all the weird circumstances and things that like, don't make sense. We did a full deep dive into that. We also put out another deep dive. Into the Ellen Greenberg case, and I know you're familiar with that one, but a new docu-series just went out on Hulu called Death in Apartment 603. And it's all about the Ellen Greenberg case. And if you haven't heard of this case, you need to listen to Monday's deep dive because how anybody is ruling this a suicide is like beyond.

• 36:18Speaker 06

  There's no way.

• 36:19Annie Elise?

  This girl in her twenties had 20 stab wounds to the back of her head and like and back and neck. And not to mention the 911 call that her fiance made. It's still, I still listened to it again last night. It literally sends a chill down my spine. And he, look, he hasn't officially been named a suspect. He hasn't been arrested, but I will say it's wild, but I talk in the episode about why I think that is. And the medical examiner, so when it all went down, at first it was ruled homicide. Then it was switched to suicide. Now the medical examiner has changed their opinion again, saying they do believe it's a homicide.

• 36:55Speaker 06

  Finally.

• 36:55Annie Elise?

  I know, because her parents have just like not stopped. We actually had them involved in this episode. So you'll hear directly from them. But just a reminder, those two episodes both released on Monday. So you can go back and binge. And another announcement, if you're not following the podcast yet, you're going to want to take a second, open up your podcast app, whatever one you're listening, Apple, Spotify, wherever it is, press the follow button because on Monday I am dropping a mega announcement. And all of you watching this on YouTube, subscribe because the announcement will be here as well. It's a mega one.

• 37:27Speaker 06

  It's a big one.

• 37:28Annie Elise?

  It's a big one. It's about, it's going to change everything. Will Mom Talk survive this?

• 37:32Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh. It's a big one, though.

• 37:35Annie Elise?

  It is a very big one, but if you're not following, you're not going to get the announcement. So follow. Um, all right, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. Is there anything I'm missing?

• 37:44Speaker 06

  I think you covered it.

• 37:45Annie Elise?

  This was a big one. This was a big daddy episode. Ew. Why did I say that?

• 37:51Speaker 06

  I don't know. I'm grossed out.

• 37:52Annie Elise?

  So grossed out for myself. All right, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. I will be back with you on Monday with an all new deep dive. Until then, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't join any cults. Um, don't, just don't be a shitty person.

• 38:09Speaker 06

  Get a divorce.

• 38:09Annie Elise?

  Get a divorce. Just get a divorce. Okay. Bye.

• 38:23Speaker 04

  Hey everyone, it's Stavros Halakis and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, Stavie's World. Each week, we're joined by great guests like Josh Safdie, Eric Andre, Caleb Heron, and more. It's sort of an interview show, but really, we're just messing around, making each other laugh, and hopefully making you laugh while you're washing the dishes, or grocery shopping, or on a long drive. Plus, I take listener calls where we have honest conversations about dating, life, and everything in between. Imagine if your therapist was a vulgar degenerate whose office was in a Greek diner. No scripts, no polish, and absolutely no holding back. Listen to Stavie's World wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. From roof repair to emergency plumbing and

• 39:06Speaker 04

  more, when you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at angie.com.