275: Karen Read Trial Recap Week 4: Higgins Late-Night Trip, Cringe Texts, & Public Opinion is Changing

A defense expert questioned how a key hair sample could survive a blizzard, casting doubt on the evidence. Officer Brian Higgins took to a late-night trip. Texts between Karen and Higgins revealed a flirty, emotional relationship, raising new questions about motive and timeline. With growing inconsistencies, public opinion appears to be shifting in Karen’s favor. We’re attending the trial in person and live streaming it daily on my YouTube channel 10 to LIFE, with full recaps every Friday. Make sure to subscribe and follow so you never miss an update.🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks 🔎Join The Club: https://www.patreon.com/annieelise🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to EXTRA deep dive episodes every week on Apple!https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164Follow Annie on Socials 📸🩷Instagram: @ _annieelise💜TikTok: @_annieelise🗞️ Substack: @annieelise💙Facebook: @10tolifeShop Annie’s Closet & Must-Haves! 👗Poshmark: https://posh.mk/Tdbki6Ae0RbShopMY: https://shopmy.us/annieeliseAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/shop/10tolife?ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_aipsfshop_BKN1ZMCMEZHACVFQ2R75&language=en_USDisclaimer ‣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me.🎙️ Follow the podcast for FREE on all podcast platforms! Apple:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/6HdheEH8WeMTHoe5da34qUAll Other Platforms: https://audioboom.com/channels/5100770-serialously-with-annie-eliseGet Involved or Recommend the Case 💬About Annie: https://annieelise.com/For Business Inquiries: [email protected].*Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. ••••••••••••••••••Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts. Comments on this channel are the sole responsibility of their writers and as such the writers will take full responsibility, liability, and blame for any libel or litigation that results from something written in or as a direct result of something written in a comment. Please feel free to challenge or disagree in the comments section – but 10 to LIFE reserves the right to delete any comment for any reason– so please keep it polite and relevant.

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• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 0:42Annie Elise?

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• 1:37Annie Elise?

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• 2:21Annie Elise?

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• 2:51Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Seriallessly.

• 3:14Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello. Welcome back to an all new episode of Seriallessly with me, Annie Elise. And today I have got the Karen Reed weekly recap for you. And that it's always, you know, as many times as I say it, it is always a mouthful. Now, this week has been very, very interesting because we have heard from a lot more witnesses. We've heard a lot more testimony and there was even a point in the trial where it sounded like Judge Beverly Canoni like whispered asshole under her breath to one of the lawyers, which I thought was very interesting. But there have been a lot of very key moments that have happened this week. And I made it clear on my last recap episode, but I just kind of want to briefly touch on it again here really quick.

• 3:58Annie Elise?

  I'm very much, I haven't moved in my positioning, even after this week, I still very much think. There's just too much reasonable doubt to convict. Whether or not Karen did it, whether she's being framed and set up, I don't know. I'm, that's not my place to judge that necessarily. If I were on the jury, I would just say that there is enough reasonable doubt that I cannot convict. And so that's been my stance since the beginning, and I think there are still. So regardless how you look at it, some questionable things, questionable behavior, ditching of the phones, lying about butt dials, weird timelines, and why people are going to the police department in the middle of the night, and then like lying about certain things, like it's their own fault, right? For exuding shady behavior and putting reasonable doubt on this case.

• 4:42Annie Elise?

  So if they want her to get convicted, like quit acting so shady, right? But anyway, the reason I bring that up is because as I've been live streaming the trial every single day for the last few weeks, I have a poll up every single day. And my poll allows the three buckets like I talked about last week. Karen, do you think Karen Reed is guilty? Do you think that she is innocent or being framed? Or do you think that there is too much doubt to convict or no? And I will say, over the last few weeks, it has trended pretty much the same. The guilty bucket is always between four to 6%. And then the balance is usually split between innocent and framed, or too much doubt to know and convict.

• 5:27Annie Elise?

  However, today, when I put that poll up, again, after this week's testimonies, the guilty percentage went down to 2%. So are there certain things that happened this week that are now making those who thought that she was guilty question themselves? And think, mm, now there is a little bit of doubt. A lot of the testimony this week was from experts themselves, not necessarily friends or people like that. And the medical examiner testified too. So it is interesting. It is interesting to see how, how steady these results from this poll were, and now how much they're shifting. And even though it's only shifting a few percent, that is shifting a lot. Because if you take those numbers, and not that it of course is going to be indicative

• 6:10Annie Elise?

  of what a jury is thinking, but it's the mass population. And if you take those numbers and then drill it down to the jury pool. There it certainly seems like they would be leaning towards either an acquittal or a mistrial because they're split. I don't know, but very few apparently think she's guilty. Now, whether that's true or not, I don't know. I'm just reporting what the poll numbers are coming in at. But anyway, we have got the recap for you today where we're going to break down everything that went down this week. Elena still is in Boston, boots on the ground, breaking down everything for us. And I'm about to jump on a flight to Boston too, this weekend, and I will be there next week, in person, breaking it all down for you. Of course, at that point, I'm not bringing all my equipment with me,

• 6:53Annie Elise?

  so it's going to be easier for me to update you guys on Instagram through stories and things like that. So make sure you're following @underscoreAnnieElise. And then we also will be doing these recaps and I will be updating you that way. But now, let's hear straight from Elena, everything that went down this week, all those testimonies, and why maybe people now are shifting in what they think.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Hey Annie, can you believe it's already the fourth week of the retrial? Let's go ahead and get right into it. So, starting with last Friday, which was May 9th, we had a full day dedicated to cross-examination of Yuri Bukinik, who again, is a Massachusetts State Police Sergeant and the former supervisor to the now infamous Michael Proctor. Now, I thought this was Jackson's strongest cross in terms of laying some of the groundwork for the defense's core arguments. First, Jackson got Bukinik to admit to some serious problems with that taillight evidence. Bukinik found taillight fragments on the lawn of 34 Fairview from February 4th to February 10th. But Michael Proctor searched that same area between the 11th and the 18th,

• 7:54Speaker 02

  and claimed to have recovered some 40 more pieces, including chunks as big as 6 by 6 inches, which I would think would be very difficult to miss the first several times around. Now, you might think, okay, well, given the weather, some of the pieces would have been stuck in the snow and not obvious at first. But Bukinik admitted that the weather was significantly warmer at this point, and the snow was basically all melted by the 4th. And Jackson really drove that point home. He said, "Look, Lieutenant Gallagher and his trusty team of leaf blowers and solo cups, they didn't find a single piece of taillight." Then he takes it a step further and says, quote, "As a matter of fact, you're also aware that no taillight material was found until after that SUV was in Massachusetts State

• 8:39Speaker 02

  Police custody and sitting in the Sally Port in Canton, correct?" And Buchanik actually agreed. Now, the defense also showed Ring camera video from John's driveway from around 5:00 a.m. on the morning of the incident. And Buchanik agreed that it appears to show the rear right side of Karen's Lexus hitting John's car. Now Buchanik said that the collision didn't cause any damage to either vehicle, but I do think that this video has the potential to go far in showing that Karen could have broken her taillight in a different way than just hitting John. Next on cross, Buchanik testified that he personally verified that the Albert's German Shepherd Chloe had been rehomed, but he admitted that the only proof

• 9:20Speaker 02

  he had of this were vet records that didn't list Chloe's name or the new owner's name. And speaking of suspicious record-keeping, Jackson pointed out that dozens of official reports were filed in this case, and basically none of them were done so in a timely manner. In fact, at least seven reports were written and filed more than a year after the incident. And it's not just the reports. Buchanik admitted that Ricky and Heather, who were in the car with Ryan Nagel and served as eyewitnesses to Karen's car pulling up to 34 Fairview, they weren't interviewed until more than a year and a half after John's death. Now, as I said, given all that we've discussed, I thought that Jackson made a lot of progress in cross, but Buchanik was not making it easy for him. He was especially resistant

• 10:02Speaker 02

  to admitting to Michael Proctor's involvement in the case. And my thing with this is, you know, he said last week he had every confidence that Proctor handled the case with honesty and integrity. Okay, if that's true, then why is he also trying so hard to distance himself from Proctor? In my opinion, he can't have it both ways. And then, maybe as some sort of cosmic karma for being so difficult on cross, Buchanik was the poor soul who had to read aloud every text message between Brian Higgins and Karen. Now, as a refresher, Brian Higgins, not to be confused with Brian Albert, the homeowner, he's an agent with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, and he was at the bar with

• 10:43Speaker 02

  John, Karen, and the crew, and he was also at 34 Fairview the night of the incident. Now these texts took hours to read aloud in court and I've done my best to narrow it down to just the highlights. Alright, first text thread. Brian, you're nuts, foul ball. Karen, you stink. Brian, you suck and you're double trouble. Karen, you're hot. Brian, are you serious or messing with me? Karen, no, I'm serious. Brian, feeling is mutual, you think you can handle me? Karen, are you hard to handle? Brian, what do you like about me? Karen, I just feel like you're from my neighborhood. Brian, yeah, ditto.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Karen, and I think you're hot. Brian, you really think that? I've always thought that about you. Karen, what? Brian, that you're hot, smart, witty, but I didn't think you were interested. I'm glad I stopped by, I should've come earlier. Karen, yeah, I was basically begging you. Brian, you don't have to beg me, I'll give you whatever you want. Alright, next thread. Karen, hey, we're single and we don't have kids, we can do whatever we want. Brian, don't you have a boyfriend? Karen, none of us is married. Brian, true, so game on? Karen, we can say whatever we want, game on. Now this next one is a little bit more serious.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Karen says, I went from being solo to trying to give attention to kids, who aren't mine and I never wanted kids. Brian, I thought you were happy in this relationship. Karen, it's just a very, very complicated dynamic with the four of us. He isn't cut out for what he's doing and the kids present constant issues. Brian, I think he believes he's doing the right thing. Karen, well, of course he is, but his heart isn't in it. It's only because he was very, very close to his sister. I never got married and now I'm somehow arguing with someone about raising kids. Eye roll emoji. I try very hard, but they're very spoiled, and they're not my family. My parents keep telling me I'd feel differently if they were my own, or my own sisters.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Then I told you he got drunk and sloppy on New Year's Eve while we were away, and that had really affected me. Brian, what did he do exactly? Karen, he was a puddle all day and then disappeared. So I was with the kids celebrating New Year's without him, which shouldn't be my role. Then I found him all over friend's sister in the lobby of our hotel. And she's gross, which I think might actually be worse. Not sure. Brian, oh god, did they bang? Karen, no, I doubt it. He was a mess. But honestly, the issues with the kids bother me more than him actually cheating. They're constant, and it feels like a lose-lose. Basically, I just feel like I've spread myself too thin, and sometimes it's thankless. Brian, do you plan on leaving him?

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Karen, I don't have any plans at the moment, in either direction. Sometimes I go back and forth. Next text thread. Brian, I'm confused. You don't feel guilty inviting me over? Karen, should I? Brian, I don't know. Who knows what you feel? Karen, I don't really think I should feel guilty. Brian, dude, I'm just asking. Don't get your thong all twisted up. Karen, you have no impact on my thong. Alright, next thread.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Karen, John has showed me about five times the ring video of me walking you out. Brian, um, what? Karen, yeah, he has cameras everywhere. You cops. Eye roll emoji. Brian, Jesus. Karen, he's like, Christ, you guys hooking up? Brian, OMG, great. I don't need drama, dude. You legit planted one on me. Karen, I know where the cameras are anyway. Duh. Brian, so your slick move isn't on there? Three question marks. Karen, of course not. Brian, OMG. I almost vomit emoji. Karen, it was just a peck anyway. I kissed Carrie, and gay Jeff too.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Alright, next text thread. At this point, Karen is trying to make plans to finally see Brian in person at his house. Brian, I'm up for a drink. Do you really wanna come over? Karen, only if you want me to. Brian, can you take charge? Karen, I thought we already settled this. Brian. Ha ha. Then just stopped by for a drink. Now, there are a couple of more texts where he gives her his address and then the texts stopped for a little bit until later that evening. When Karen says, "Home, alive." Winky face emoji. So we can infer that they did meet up and did who knows what, maybe it was just a drink. Maybe it was, as Brian would call it, a bang.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  But either way, Karen must not have been very impressed because the next thread isn't until several days later on January 23rd when Brian says, "Have not heard from you." Karen, phones work both ways emoji. Brian. Thought you were all set. Karen, with talking? No. Brian. Hmm, you sure? I knew this is how you would act. Whatever. You can get most any guy you want, so you're not losing any sleep over this. Then she didn't reply to that and the next text isn't for five more days on January 28th at 11:32 PM, which is when Brian saw Karen walk into the bar with John and he texted her, "Um, well?" She didn't reply.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Then the final text is on January 29th at 11:54 AM when Karen says, "John died." Okay, that was a whole lot. I hope you guys are still with me. Now, something I find interesting is that in the first trial, it was the prosecution who called for these texts to be read. And in this trial, it's the defense. Because the way you interpret these could be different depending on your opinions on the trial, right? If you lean more towards the prosecution side, you might look at these and say, "Well geez, here's a woman who is clearly unhappy with her relationship, quickly cheating, at least to some extent. Could this contribute to a motive for her to want to get rid of her boyfriend so she could be with Brian full-time?" But if you lean more towards the defense side, you might instead say, "Okay, we have a guy who's been attracted to his buddy's girlfriend for a long time.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  She finally seems to reciprocate for a bit, and then she ghosts. Could that be motive for him to want to get rid of the boyfriend? Could there be some jealousy there?" So the fact that it was entered into evidence by the defense suggests that they think the texts make Brian look more guilty than Karen. Will the jury see it that way? What do you guys think? My take, I don't think that these texts make either Karen or Brian look great. But what I don't see is a clear arrow pointing to murder. I don't see like the, mm, I'll get rid of him so we can be together, that kind of thing. I don't see that from either side. So are they guilty of cheating? Probably. Bad sexting? Definitely. But murder, I'm not convinced for either one of them.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Then Monday the 12th was yes, another full day of testimony from Sergeant Bukanik. Which means this guy was on the stand for three full days. We're gonna go rapid fire to the most important stuff here for all of our sanity. Rapid fire point one. On cross-examination, Jackson mentioned that a plow driver around the Canton area saw a Ford Edge parked next to 34 Fairview around 2:30 a.m. And then he said that that car was gone when he returned about an hour later. Now Bukanik testified that he didn't investigate the Ford Edge further, even though it was known that someone in the Albert family owned that type of car.

• 18:15Annie Elise?

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• 19:42Annie Elise?

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• 19:50Speaker 02

  Next, Jackson brought up that Proctor wrote an affidavit that said that Karen's car was seized by them at 5:30pm. But it later came out that the car was actually taken more than an hour earlier at 4:12pm. Little sketchy, little concerning, given some of the circumstances of the case. Next, Bukinac testified that he was aware that Proctor had some sort of relationship with the Alberts before they interviewed Chris and Julie Albert. But he said he was fine with keeping Proctor on the case anyway. Alright, next with what are we at? Rapid fire point four, I think. Alright, four. Jackson showed surveillance footage from different angles around the Canton Police Department, taken at around 1:30am on the night of the incident.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  From these, basically, we can see someone, who Bukinac identified as Brian Higgins, milling around the police station, the parking lot, the Sally Port. And that's what they call the police station garage. So he's in his Jeep, he's walking in and around other cars in the lot. He's holding what they call a snow broom, and at one point, he's also talking on the phone. So basically, the point is, hey, what's this guy doing at the police station this late at night? He previously testified that he was moving the cars around in the lot in anticipation for the snow. But he doesn't actually move any of the cars other than his own. He just gets in them and like shuffles around. So again, red flag? I think it could be.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Jackson showed a video of the Canton PD Sally Port just after 5:30pm on January 29th. The video shows Karen's parked car, along with the tow truck driver kind of near the hood of the car, and Michael Proctor circling around, and then he's kind of popping up and messing around with something that appears to be near the left rear area of the car. And that's how this footage was shown in the first trial. And given this footage, Jackson pointed out that Bukanik testified in that first trial that neither he nor Proctor even came near the rear right taillight, which is in line with the video. But then here's the kicker we were all waiting for. This video is inverted. It's actually the mirror image of what happened.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  That means all that messing around, poking around, whatever it was that Proctor was up to, that was actually happening next to the right rear taillight, not the left. Bukanik actually agreed, and he also admitted that the video was taken before any taillight evidence was found at 34 Fairview. And he said that the drive from Canton PD to 34 Fairview only takes about four minutes. And in my opinion, this was big for the defense. Remember, before Bukanik was called, all the defense had really done to refute the prosecution's taillight evidence was show that there was this window of opportunity where the scene at 34 Fairview was unmonitored. But now, they've not only shown the jury that there was opportunity to plant the evidence,

• 22:37Speaker 02

  they've also pointed out exactly who they think did it. They've showed a video that suggested that he could have done it. And maybe worst of all, they also showed that measures were taken to manipulate or cover up that video evidence. Now, of course, Bukanik denied that the inversion was purposeful. You get what I mean, right? This definitely looks shady. The question is, has the defense done enough for the jury to buy that a seasoned Massachusetts state trooper would really plant dozens and dozens of pieces of evidence at a crime scene? How is the jury gonna weigh the testimony and the trustworthiness of Bukanik against the shadiness of this inverted video? I don't know. What do you guys think? Now, after Yuri's testimony finally wrapped up on Monday,

• 23:20Speaker 02

  we learned pretty last minute that court wouldn't be held on Tuesday. And it later came out that was because Karen herself was sick. But she seemed well enough for court to resume on Wednesday, the 14th. Now, the prosecution went through quite a few witnesses. And my theory is that they kind of realized that Bukanik hurt their case more than helped it, so they wanted to bring in their most reliable, most emotionally compelling witnesses today. Again, just my opinion. Now, we started off with John's niece, who was 14 at the time of his death, and now only 17, so Karen was weren't allowed for her testimony. We did learn that she said Karen would take her out for food and to go shopping, but she sometimes felt like Karen was cold and favored her younger brother, John's nephew.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  She also testified that Karen and John initially seemed to have a pretty good relationship, but they began fighting a couple times a week towards the end. She specifically mentioned Karen and John arguing during a family trip to Aruba. Apparently something about his nephew being on an iPad too much, and also this thing about John kissing someone else, which lines up pretty well with what we learned from Karen and Brian's text messages. Also, in early 2022, John's niece said that she heard John tell Karen that their relationship was "good, but it had run its course", which ended in John storming off to a bedroom and Karen banging on the door. Now, fast forward into the morning of John's death, his niece testified that Karen was frantic and saying things like,

• 24:44Speaker 02

  "Could I have done something?", and "Maybe I hit him." She also said that Karen didn't try to comfort her or her brother at all after John's death. Now, most of this stuff we already knew from other sources, but I think the niece's testimony was still valuable for the prosecution in the same way that John's mother's testimony was valuable. It reminded the jury, and us, that in the middle of all this crazy case, there's a real and beloved person who's no longer with us. And we now have two kids who've lost their mother, their father, their father figure, who was John, and they've also lost Karen as a mother figure. And it was a reminder that, honestly, no matter what the verdict is, there are really no winners in this case. The next witness was State Police Sergeant Zachary Clark,

• 25:26Speaker 02

  who was in charge of photographing Karen's SUV while it was in the Canton PD garage, as well as photographing this scene outside of 34 Fairview. He showed the jury photos of the odometer and the backup warning display on Karen's car. On cross-examination, Clark testified that he didn't photograph the car until February 1st, and he admitted that he didn't know how much access Michael Proctor could have had to the car before he arrived. And on a different note, Clark also said that he and Proctor interviewed Colin Albert together. Now, that's the nephew of the homeowner, Brian Albert. And when the defense pointed out that Colin wasn't interviewed until a year and a half after the incident, Clark couldn't really explain why they had waited so long. Another state police sergeant was on the stand next.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  This was Evan Brent, who photographed some of the evidence that was recovered from the lawn of 34 Fairview on February 3rd, and he also went to One Meadows and photographed John's car in the driveway. Now, he testified that he didn't observe any damage to John's car, which is in line with Bukinik's testimony, but it doesn't really answer the main question of, well, was there damage to Karen's car? Because of course it's possible for one car to be damaged, but not the other if there's an accident. Now, just like with Clark, the main point that the defense established during Brent's cross-examination was that he wasn't involved in the case until February, and he had no knowledge of who could have had access to the car or to the crime scene before then. Again, showing that there's, at the very least, some opportunity for Proctor to get his hands

• 26:51Speaker 02

  on everything before everyone else became involved. Sergeant Brian Gallerini briefly took the stand next, and he testified to taking DNA samples from Sergeant Bukinik and former trooper Michael Proctor. Then lastly, on Wednesday, we heard from Maureen Hartnett from the state police crime lab, who processed a lot of the evidence at the scene. Now, I gotta say, I liked Hartnett. She came off as being reliable, and she talked about being very meticulous, very by the book when it came to handling the evidence. In fact, maybe she could teach Mr. Leafflower Gallagher a thing or two about evidence. But even so, I think her analysis can only be as good as the evidence she's given, and in this case, a lot of the evidence is questionable at best.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  For example, she had to swab the blood that was in those good old reliable red solo cups, and she testified that she's never before or since seen evidence collected in cups like that. Also, can you believe that after all this nonsense with the cups, no one even tested those swabs she took to determine whose blood it was, or even if it was blood? She also showed jurors up-close photos of John's clothes, and one in particular caught my eye. It was John's gray hoodie, which appeared to have some sort of puncture mark in it, about the size of the tip of my pinky, and it was sort of rough around the edges. And when I saw it, I immediately thought, "That doesn't look like something that would be caused by a car collision. It kinda looks more like a bite mark or a tooth mark." Then on cross-examination, she said that she swabbed the undercarriage of the car

• 28:16Speaker 02

  and found no traces of blood. She also admitted that any or all of the damage she observed to the car could have been there before the incident. And on cross, Alessi for the defense cleverly pointed out that one of the photos of the rear bumper that she took actually shows a reflection, which basically means that Hartnett claimed that there was twice as much glass on the bumper as was actually there, because the reflection made it look like the glass was doubled. Now, I put this blunder in the same category as the shoe mix-up we had last week. Is it a big deal on its own? Probably not. But could it start to add up in a case where evidence handling is already being called into question? Absolutely. The biggest one on cross, though, came when Alessi asked about the hair and glass

• 28:58Speaker 02

  found on Karen's car. Hartnett testified that she found a glass shard resting on the rear bumper and a hair on the back right side of the car. And she said that neither one were hard to remove. She was able to just pick them up and move them with tweezers. But if they weren't attached to the car in any way, they were just sort of laying there, how were they able to survive that 30-mile, 45-minute journey from the Reed House to Canton PD, nonetheless during a blizzard and with heavy winds? Then on Thursday, Dr. Rooney Scortibello from the medical examiner's office took the stand. Now, I was really excited to hear her testimony, because up until this point, the prosecution hasn't really given the jury much to conclude how John died. She testified to examining John's external injuries, as well as conducting an internal

• 29:43Speaker 02

  autopsy. On John's face, she identified a 1-centimeter cut to his eye, a scrape on his nose, and swelling and blood pooling under both eyelids. On the back of the head, she identified a 2.5-centimeter cut, and then during the internal portion of the autopsy, she found skull fractures under the cut area. She also observed bleeding on the top of the brain, and because of that, she decided to send the brain to a neuropathologist. She also found fractures in the fourth and fifth ribs close to the sternum, but she testified to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that these were caused by chest compressions during CPR, and she didn't observe any other injuries to the chest or abdomen. She observed two bruises on the back of John's right hand.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  And she testified that one was consistent with bruising from medical staff inserting an IV in but she couldn't say how the other was caused. And she also identified a faint scratch to the back of the left hand. On the right arm, she found multiple cuts ranging in size from three millimeters to seven centimeters. She didn't measure their depth, and she also couldn't say what caused them. She also identified a half-centimeter scrape to the side of the right knee. She said that John's toxicology report showed no prescription medications or drugs, but that his blood alcohol level was high, between .21 and .28 grams per deciliter. Ultimately, she determined that the primary cause of death to be blunt impact injuries to the head, with a secondary finding of hypothermia, since his core body temperature was only

• 31:09Speaker 02

  80.1 degrees when he was brought to the hospital. However, she was unable to determine the manner of death. The potential categories for that are homicide, suicide, accidental, or natural. And she wasn't able to definitively say that one of those was the matter of death. Then cross-examination was handled by Alessi for the defense. Now, the defense's main goal here was to raise doubt that John's injuries could have been caused by a car crash or hypothermia. So let's go injury by injury and see if the defense's points make sense here. First, we have those two more minor injuries to the face: the cut to the eye and the scrape to the nose. Dr. Scortabelli admitted that those could not have been caused simply by getting struck and falling backwards. And interestingly, she agreed that those injuries could be consistent with getting punched.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Next, there's that wound to the back of the head. She said on direct that this was the primary cause of death, so it's maybe the most important injury. Alessi asked if she would expect to see grass inside of that wound if it were caused by a backward fall onto the ground. She agreed that it were possible, but she said that the injury was otherwise completely consistent with falling backwards onto a flat, frozen ground. Lastly, there's the important question of damage to John's internal organs. Specifically, Scortabello has said that the stomach and pancreas showed signs consistent with hypothermia, including ulcers, discoloration, and hemorrhaging. On crash, she admitted that the ulcers in John's stomach, which she had previously attributed to hypothermia, could have also been caused by alcohol consumption.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Now, Alessi actually showed autopsy photos from the inside of John's stomach. And by the way, these were so graphic that the jurors had to request a break. And he did this to point out that not much of the stomach area was actually covered in ulcers. Now, as for that pancreas hemorrhaging, which is just another word for bleeding, Scortibello agreed that there could be alternative causes, like deep chest compressions that were performed on John by a Lucas machine, which is a sort of automatic CPR machine. And finally, she admitted that John had no signs of phraspite, which I have to admit is pretty surprising considering it was below freezing on the night of the incident. At the end of those findings, Alessi asked Scortibello if she wanted to change her opinions on whether hypothermia was a contributing cause of death for John, but she said, quote,

• 33:21Speaker 02

  "No, I do not. I still believe that there were hypothermic signs." Now, there was another interesting part of Cross, which came when Alessi gave Scortibello a copy of John's death report. When she was asked to read it to the jury, she mentioned that it references some kind of altercation or dispute in the original death notification. Now, as soon as that was read, of course, the prosecution was like, "Objection, objection", and the judge told the jury to disregard it. But again, it gives credence to this idea that early on, even law enforcement were considering that something other than a car crash could have caused John's death. Now, overall, I found Dr. Scortibello to be a credible witness, but I found it hard to say if the testimony really helped either the prosecution or the defense very much.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  On one hand, you could argue that it's going to be really hard for a jury to convict someone of murder when a trained medical examiner won't even rule the death as a homicide. On the other hand, she did say that most of John's injuries could be consistent with falling backwards, hitting the back of the head, and being left in the snow, although she did say that most car impact victims have some injuries to the leg area, which she didn't find. Now, for me, I still have some questions, especially about those arm lacerations that many people are calling "dog bites". And in fact, Alessi specifically asked Scortibello if those cuts could be consistent with a dog bite, but Judge Canoni wouldn't allow the question. Personally, I would have liked to hear the answer. What do you guys think? Do you guys think this testimony left us with more questions than answers?

• 34:47Annie Elise?

  Well, there you go. It was a jam-packed week, as she mentioned. So, there's still a lot more to go. It seems as though we are going to be getting into more of the defenses witness list over the next week. We'll see what happens. Again, the trial was expected to go through mid-June. I don't know if that still is the case. It might, only because next week, I believe they're taking off Thursday, Friday, and the following Monday for Memorial Day. So, because they would be losing three days, it could still stretch out and take the full eight weeks, but it could also end sooner. We'll see. So, let me know what you guys think about this case. Did anything that happened this week change your mind? Have you been following it? Did you hear the little remark that it sounded like Bev called him an asshole?

• 35:29Annie Elise?

  Curious to know your thoughts. And I'll be back with you all next week, where we are going to be still streaming the trial, where I will be talking to you guys on Instagram, live from the courthouse. Again, don't forget to follow @安妮·艾利斯. And then, of course, we'll be back with our recap. Aside from that, too, I have listened to you guys. I have heard your feedback. I've received your DMs. I know that you guys want Diddy trial updates. I briefly touched on it this week in Headline Highlights, but we are going to try to give you more regular updates regarding the Diddy trial, but more in a bullet list of the biggest takeaways, the biggest allegations, not all the details of all the testimony, all the witnesses, just more of like the need to know, rather than like all of the other stuff. So, I'm just trying to figure out what format we're going to do that in,

• 36:14Annie Elise?

  since we already are putting out so much content. So, for now, I think I'm going to be lumping it in with Headline Highlights, but it'll just be a longer segment. And then, if we need to end up splitting it out, maybe this recap segment for the next few weeks becomes more of a weekly trial update segment, where we cover both of them. So, I haven't really decided yet, but if you have a preference, please let me know in the comment section, because I need all the help I can get when making decisions. I am very indecisive. So, let me know how you want that. Alright, guys. Thanks so much for tuning in. I'll be back with you on Monday with an all-new deep dive into a case. And until then, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, and I hope you have a fantastic weekend. Alright, bye.

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