231: Ruby Franke's Steamy Love Affair with Jodi Hildebrandt? | Shari Franke's New Memoir "The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom"

Ruby Franke’s eldest daughter has dropped new shocking revelations in her new book, The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom. In the book, she opens up about the harrowing experiences of growing up under Ruby's roof, the complex relationship between Ruby and Jodi, and much more. Today, I’m diving into all the key takeaways from her explosive account. Deep Dive into the entire Ruby/Jodi Saga: https://youtu.be/KiwreZn6Z5kShari's Book: https://www.amazon.com/House-My-Mother-Daughters-Freedom/dp/1668065398Shop the Merch:www.annieelise.comFollow the podcast on TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@serialouslypodcastFollow the podcast on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/serialouslypod/Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/annieeliseAll Social Media Links:https://www.flowcode.com/page/annieelise_SERIALously FB Page:https://www.facebook.com/SERIALouslyAnnieElise/About Me:https://annieelise.com/For Business Inquiries:[email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 0:57Annie Elise?

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• 1:39Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleuth.

• 2:02Annie Elise?

  Hey everybody. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistically with me, Annie Elise. Now today's case is one that I wasn't really planning to cover, but a lot of you guys have been sending me emails and sending me requests, asking me for my take on what's going on in this situation, because we dove a lot into this case over the last couple of years, and it's the case of Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt. Now, if you're not fully caught up on it, don't worry, I'm going to give a quick overview of what's going on with that case. But the reason why so many people are reaching out and asking me to talk about the updates, talk about some of the new revelations that have come out and share my thoughts on certain things, is because Ruby's daughter,

• 2:47Annie Elise?

  Sherri Frankie, has come out recently with her own book, which I just have to say is truly incredible. The book is called The House of My Mother: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom. And I mean, I just gotta say, the amount of bravery that it would take to write something like this, and I would hope and imagine the healing element as well, it is truly incredible. So, a lot of people are asking for my take on her book, because in this book, she puts a lot of the puzzle pieces together about the dynamic between Ruby and Jody. She also shares her firsthand account of what went down in that house, what it was like living with Ruby Franke. And so, not only are we going to just do a quick recap,

• 3:29Annie Elise?

  for those of you who don't know or are unfamiliar with this situation in this case, but then I'm going to go through the biggest key takeaways in this book. And there are quite a few, because I went through the entire book. And like I said, it's a very, very powerful and empowering book. So, I would suggest all of you, if you haven't picked up a copy or downloaded the audiobook, definitely do so. And not only these key takeaways, but she really starts to shed light on the true relationship between Ruby and Jody, and that, as a lot of people suspected, it seems as though they were romantically and physically involved with each other. So, we are going to go through everything. I mean, all of it. But let me give you guys

• 4:10Annie Elise?

  kind of just the brief rundown of this. And then, as I mentioned, I've covered this case extensively for the last few years, so you can certainly go back and check out my deep dives, and I will link all of that in the show notes.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  She was the Utah mommy influencer known for her no-nonsense parenting.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  I'm only gonna say it one more time, and then you're gonna lose the privilege to eat dinner.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Ruby Franke sharing her life at home with six children to her more than 2 million followers on YouTube.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Today, we are starting off our day the way we do every day.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  But Ruby's social media empire quickly unraveled when her youngest son escaped in August of 2023. This chilling 911 call leading to her arrest.

• 4:53Speaker 04

  I just had a 12-year-old boy show up here at my front door asking for help. And he's a, said he just came from a neighbor's house. He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Now, for the first time, Ruby's eldest daughter Sheri is telling her story in a new memoir, "The House of My Mother."

• 5:16Speaker 05

  Sometimes I'll like see myself in the mirror, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I look like her, or I sound like her, but I don't want to be anything like her.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Sheri, who says she was cut off from the family when she left for college, detailing abuse she says her mother inflicted throughout her childhood.

• 5:32Speaker 05

  When I was younger, around like 5, 6, like Ruby was really physical. Like, you know, whether it was like a slap to the lip, or slap to the cheek. When I would practice the piano, you know, like her hand would slam, and like, it was really scary. And honestly, when she met Jody, that kind of stopped.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Enter Jodi Hildebrandt, a Mormon family counselor and mentor to Ruby.

• 5:56Speaker 05

  Could you feel the shift when Jody came into your family's life? I could for sure. I could feel the shift. I was like, oh, Jody, like, you know, I don't like her, but maybe this is one good thing that's come from it, is she's not yelling, she's not hitting us anymore. Um, but it did become more psychological, and in a way, that was more damaging to me.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  In 2022, Hildebrandt moved into the Frankie home. The children's father, Kevin, moved out shortly after.

• 6:24Speaker 05

  I certainly got weird vibes from Jody and Ruby. Um, I don't think it's normal at all that a therapist would move into her client's home. I was moving out to college and... I hadn't even like left the house yet and she is in my room and in my bed.

• 6:40Speaker 06

  What was that relationship between the two of them?

• 6:43Speaker 05

  Ruby tried to be secretive about it and so like I don't, I don't know all the details, but just the vibes that I was getting was that something was strange between them.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  In the book, Sheri writing about messages between the two, she says she found on Ruby's laptop after their arrest. That confirmed for me the truth about the nature of her relationship with Jody and how it had spilled over into the physical. Ruby expressing her frustration about having to cater to Jody's needs for physical affection without getting anything in return.

• 7:14Speaker 06

  Were they romantically involved with each other?

• 7:17Speaker 05

  I never saw anything specific about that.

• 7:20Speaker 06

  Do you think they were more than friends?

• 7:22Speaker 05

  Um, I'm not sure.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  ABC News reached out to Ruby and Hildebrandt for comment, but did not hear back. Both women pleaded guilty to four counts of child abuse against the two youngest children, but not Sheri and will serve at least four years in prison.

• 7:39Speaker 05

  To my babies, my six little chicks, you are part of me.

• 7:47Speaker 06

  Did you believe that she was apologetic?

• 7:50Speaker 05

  I think that she's as sorry as she can be. What she has done is so bad that I don't think her mind allows her to kind of fully comprehend the guilt of all that. And so I think that she probably genuinely believed everything she said.

• 8:05Speaker 05

  I don't believe it though.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Sheri now trying to turn her pain into purpose.

• 8:11Speaker 05

  There is no such thing as a moral or ethical family vlogger.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Advocating to restrict family vlogging with children too young to consent.

• 8:20Speaker 06

  Is there anything that you would say to Ruby if you had the chance?

• 8:24Speaker 05

  Probably tell her I'm happy without you. Like, I was scared of her for so long and I am pure without her approval and I am just fine.

• 8:35Speaker 06

  Have you forgiven Ruby?

• 8:36Speaker 05

  Forgiveness is something I've had to like study a lot and kind of think about what it means. But for me, forgiveness would look like not letting that consume every moment of my life and all of my thoughts. I am just trying to move on with my life and trust that... Things are gonna work out the way they're supposed to.

• 8:57Annie Elise?

  Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt became infamous figures after they were arrested in September 2023. They were arrested for charges of aggravated child and both of the women were known for their online presence, but their personal lives and their professional practices started to reveal some very troubling behavior that quite honestly led to public outrage. So let's start with Ruby Franke and who she is because she was like this YouTube mega star, this mommy vlogger. You've probably heard about her at some point, even if you don't know all the details. And she really rose to fame as the matriarch of this like family focused YouTube channel called Eight Passengers.

• 9:37Annie Elise?

  She launched that YouTube channel in 2015 and I believe they went over like three million followers in that time. So the channel featured Ruby, her husband Kevin, and their six children. And what they focused on primarily was their strict Mormon lifestyle and their parenting practices. So over the years, as I mentioned, Eight Passengers amassed millions of followers. I mean, earning Ruby sponsorships, recognition, just so much money. However, of course, with that, as the channel grew in popularity, Ruby's parenting style started to come under fire because she really advocated for a strict household, this authoritarian approach. And she oftentimes would be very transparent and vocal with her thoughts on how this should be achieved.

• 10:20Annie Elise?

  And it was very concerning to the viewers. I mean, just a couple of examples include denying her young son food for extended periods of time, all as a form of punishment. There was one instance where at four years old, her child forgot to bring their packed lunch to school. And because of that, when the teacher called saying, is it okay to feed them? She said, no, don't feed them. They need to learn that they need to be responsible, like things like that with like, I could be misspeaking. I'm sorry, at four or six years old, I can't remember the exact age. Again, it's been a couple of years. Another example was forcing her child to sleep on a beanbag for months on end for behavioral correction, removing all privacy, removing the door from the hinges, publicly shaming her children for what she perceived as wrongdoings. I mean,

• 11:04Annie Elise?

  List went on and on, and these practices really sparked accusations of abuse from viewers, and it led to a pretty sharp decline in her fanbase by 2021. Ruby defended her methods. She claimed that they instilled discipline, resilience, that this was the way and the teachings that she had learned would be the most effective. But then, as people were calling her out and even making complaints and filing complaints to CPS, her fanbase, like I said, just started to decline. And that's when she kind of started going off the radar. And that's also when Jodi Hildebrandt enters the scene a little bit more. Now, Jodi Hildebrandt was a licensed therapist who founded a company called Connections, Connections with an X. And Connections is a counseling service that claimed to help individuals achieve

• 11:49Annie Elise?

  personal accountability and emotional clarity. Now, if you're like me, anybody who kind of like has some sort of flowery language like that, it feels very cult-like, right? It's like spiritual enlightenment, enlightened being, all of these things. And that was no different with Connections. I'm not saying it was a cult. It's just my personal opinion that it was very cultish, and a lot of people were also recognizing that. Now, one of the main reasons for that is Jodi's methods were very controversial. She promoted such an extreme interpretation of morality, often blending Mormon principles within her counseling. So Jodi began collaborating with Ruby after Ruby's YouTube channel started facing all of that backlash. Then, together, they sort of teamed up to be this dynamic duo

• 12:32Annie Elise?

  where they ran these workshops, these classes, all through Connections. And they would preach a very rigid and very, I don't know if I would say punitive, probably, like parenting philosophy, just a very like sharp and not a lot of people were aligned, but unfortunately, some people were. Now, this collaboration became a platform for Ruby to really continue advocating her extreme views, despite all of the criticism that she was receiving. So people were starting to notice this. They were wondering, what was the real dynamic going on with Jodi and Ruby? Because as I mentioned, Ruby was married to Kevin, but at one point, Jodi moved into Ruby's home, and then Kevin moved out. And people were just kind of wondering, like, what's really going on here?

• 13:14Annie Elise?

  Media also started shutting down at that point for Ruby and so nobody was really able to see the condition of the children, what their spirits were, what their health was, their well-being, and everybody was just a little confused. But then a turning point came in September of 2023, when Ruby and Jody were arrested. Now, the reason they were arrested was because Ruby's 12-year-old son escaped from Jody's home in Utah. Now, when the boy showed up on his neighbor's doorstep, I do not encourage you to Google that image and that video. It is heartbreaking and it is something that will stick with you forever. But he was emaciated, he had visible injuries to him, he had duct tape wounds on his ankles, on his wrists. Also, there were signs of severe malnutrition,

• 13:57Annie Elise?

  and it was incredibly heartbreaking. And these, again, it's a visual that will literally never leave your mind. So he ran to a neighbor's house begging for food, for water, and for them to call 911. So when 911 shows up and they talk with this boy and they go over to Jody's house and kind of storm the castle, which that footage you do need to see because Jody on the body cam, she's like flustered, she has no idea what's happening, she didn't even realize that he had gotten out. But when they're searching her house, they discover another child in a very similar condition inside Jody's home. And investigators revealed that Ruby had left her children in Jody's care for an extended period of time, and really exposing them to horribly abusive

• 14:39Annie Elise?

  conditions. Now, like I said, that's very top line. So if you want the deep dive into all of it, I will definitely link those. But I just wanted you to kind of know a little bit of the backstory for where we're going now. So prosecutors ended up charging Ruby and Jody with six different counts of felony charges. And the charges were supported by the children's physical injuries and their malnourishment, testimony from Ruby's oldest daughter Sheri, who had long accused her mother of horrific behavior, and evidence of extreme discipline and isolation methods that were prompted by Jody and Ruby. Ruby's husband Kevin Frankie was not immediately charged because he reportedly had been estranged from Ruby, as I mentioned, he had moved out of the house. And according to him, he was unaware of what was really going on. However, his role in the family

• 15:24Annie Elise?

  Knowledge of Ruby's parenting methods did spark public debate because people were saying, "Hey, look, when they had the YouTube channel and she was so vocal about all of these issues and her parenting styles, he was right there alongside of her, agreeing with her. Like, he is not innocent in this in any regard. He could have definitely put a stop to it." So, once they were arrested and charged, Ruby's children were placed in state custody following the arrest and Sherry Frankie, Ruby's oldest daughter, took to social media to really celebrate the arrest, claiming that justice was finally being served. She had previously distanced herself from her family and she had also hinted at those kinds of conditions that were happening inside the house. And the public response, I mean, it was overwhelmingly critical. Ruby and Jody's parenting philosophies and the Connections program were completely just like labeled and

• 16:09Annie Elise?

  marked as harmful, manipulative, cultish, all of the things. And former fans of the Eight Passengers YouTube channel started even expressing guilt for not recognizing the signs of this horrific abuse earlier, while others demanded systemic changes to protect children in similar situations. And finally, hopefully, an end to family vlogging. So, when the investigation started going into Jodi Hildebrandt, it revealed that her Connections counseling had a history of harming clients, and that kind of puts it mildly. I mean, former patients accused Jody of isolating individuals from their families by labeling their loved ones as, quote, "toxic," using shame and different fear-based tactics to enforce compliance, preaching misogynistic and overly

• 16:54Annie Elise?

  rigid ideals. And again, it just very much seems aligned with a cult. And she also was bashing anybody who came to her or confided in her that they were gay. She was saying, "That's not the way," this and that. And a lot of people thought it was because she was closeted and that it was like one of those "Val protest too much" situations. But Ruby's partnership with Jody amplified all of these toxic principles, really creating a dangerous environment for any vulnerable individuals, including Ruby's children. So ultimately, Ruby was sentenced to four one-to-15 year terms in prison, and this kind of ended the whole saga. And Jody was also sentenced to the same. Prison term, four different one to 15 year prison terms.

• 17:37Annie Elise?

  And both women are serving their sentences consecutively. But according to Utah law, the maximum aggregate sentence for consecutive terms is 30 years. So ultimately, the Utah Board of Pardons and Prole will determine how long Ruby and Jody will be held in prison for. We don't really know what that is because obviously four different sentences of one to 15 years, that's a pretty wide stretch, right? It could either be four years or it could be 60 years, but we know that it can't go above 30. So we'll see what that is. But that leads us to what we're talking about today. Because Sherry Frankie, Ruby's daughter, the oldest one, who has been so outspoken since all of this has happened. She wrote a book, a memoir called The House of My Mother, A Daughter's Quest for Freedom.

• 18:21Annie Elise?

  And like I said, it is extremely powerful. This book truly was so well written from the timeline that the events were laid out in, all the way to the details that Sherry chose to share. And even the important takeaways that she made sure to include, like some of the dicier laws that affected her being able to get help for her siblings or for family vlog channels in general. Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that new customers who bundle and save with Progressive save hundreds. Because switching your home and auto insurance is way better than cutting down on the things you love, like those iced lattes that help you get ready to face the day. So switch your home and auto to Progressive and see if you could save and keep sipping away. Get your quote today at progressive.com.

• 19:03Annie Elise?

  Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers not available in all states. Now, one really important thing that stood out to me above all was that from the very beginning to end, Sherry's main goal in this book was to write her experience, her story. And even though she shared some simple facts about her younger siblings, like for example, them being isolated from the outside world and their family and being left alone in the care of Ruby and Jody, she made sure to never tell their story for them. She wanted to make sure that she didn't exploit them in the process of writing her book, like Ruby had really exploited them all of those years. In fact, besides her brother Chad, who was still her younger brother, but was closer to her in age and living on his own at Of the house when Ruby was arrested, the younger siblings' names aren't even mentioned

• 19:48Annie Elise?

  once throughout the entirety of the book. That's why I also didn't reference their names earlier when I was talking about certain situations that had happened and certain forms of punishment that Ruby had inflicted. Now, just from the clarification at the end of the book, I knew that this was going to be a good one because the first part of the book touched on both Ruby and Kevin's childhood experiences and what truly led them to end up together. Sheri described how growing up, Ruby's number one goal was to always get married and have a house full of children, mainly because of the LDS church that they were raised in, not necessarily because it was genuinely what she wanted out of life, but more so what she thought was the right thing to do as a Mormon woman. Sheri even describes the concepts of love and marriage from Ruby's mindset when she became of age

• 20:33Annie Elise?

  and how it was to simply obtain a husband and kids, not for love itself or to actually be in love. She described her as having, quote, "an audition for husbands, going from guy to guy until she essentially found someone who was, one, part of the LDS faith, and, two, was willing to have a ton of children." So when she finally met Kevin, according to Sheri, it wasn't this moment of like, "he's the one, he's perfect." It was more so, you know, "he checks all the right boxes." Now, they met when they were both only 18 years old, and they were engaged after two weeks of dating, and they were married three months after meeting each other. And then came all six of the kids, seemingly one after another.

• 21:12Annie Elise?

  Sheri consistently shared stories of her childhood, reminding the readers, too, that Ruby simply wasn't a good mom to her, ever. It wasn't as if all of Sheri's life, she was this doting, loving mom who then just got swept up and swept away in whatever the heck Jody was preaching. No, not at all. She even shared a story of being five years old and being forced to play the piano like Ruby always had played herself, and that she had been being smacked on the arm or even getting her ear tugged if she didn't cooperate. But it wasn't simply just about cooperation. Sheri revealed that it was the earliest time that she could remember that she eternally realized that with Ruby, you not only had to say okay and do as she told you to do, but you had to do it

• 21:54Annie Elise?

  Enthusiastically, a frown, a groan, or an eye roll, it would get you smacked. And further, if you were punished, you were not allowed to cry about it, which is when she really learned to essentially put a mask on around Ruby and present her as the kind of kid that she wanted her and her siblings to be. It was also at five years old that she recalled ever feeling anxiety for the first time, simply by just being at home. She wrote that her unexplainable stomach aches were really just her anxious thoughts that were manifesting inside her body, though she wouldn't learn until later in life, when she had the correct names or tools to even self diagnose something like that. It's also important to note that with each cry for help to her mom about, you know, having an upset stomach when she was feeling all of this,

• 22:37Annie Elise?

  Ruby would just invalidate her, telling her that she was fine, that nothing was wrong with her. And at first, Ruby was a mommy blogger, like I said. She was posting things like family baking recipes, little things like that, because during that time, blogs were all the rage. It wasn't video blogs yet, so it wasn't vlogs. It was just like actual online text and some photos. And something that I found interesting was the topic of conversation centered around the belief and teaching in the LDS faith to really document your life so that generations can look back at it almost as like a teaching sort of way. Sherry relates this belief to the fact that even today, so many family blogging channels are people in the LDS church. Of course, one thing doesn't necessarily correlate with the other, but the numbers are pretty staggering.

• 23:23Annie Elise?

  I mean, just this past year, we saw the TV show The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, and it was an absolute hit. People love to see behind the scenes and behind the curtain of the lives that are so different from their own. Now, for the Frankie family, in the beginning, this form of documentation was kind of like required journal time. Sherry remembered Ruby going room to room at bedtime, making sure that everyone was writing in their journals. Then it moved on to Ruby documenting on her blog, and eventually the channel, which we know as Eight Passengers. It wasn't until much later, after Ruby's sisters started posting to YouTube and she saw how well people responded to that sort of thing, that she decided to start a channel of her own. And thus, Eight Passengers was born on January 8.

• 24:04Annie Elise?

  2015. Now, the ironic thing about that was that Ruby would later go on to disown all of her sisters and completely cut all of them off from her life. But that's just a little tidbit I felt like I needed to share and I'm not trying to digress from the story, but it's important. Now, the channel itself is already pretty well covered and talked about, so I'm not going to really go into detail about the little things surrounding it. But as you can imagine, Sherri spoke about how embarrassing and how awkward it was to pretty much go through puberty with a camera just constantly in her face. Every moment was captured, every moment was directed. She described Ruby as being like a Hollywood producer telling them to do certain things or look a certain way while they were filming.

• 24:44Annie Elise?

  And, and like I mentioned earlier, because Sherri knew that it was in her best interest to listen, she did. Ruby's Hollywood production skills ended up paying off too, because in just six months, the channel was monetized, which is when she then began taking things even further and even more serious, because she now realized she could make money. So it took on this whole other level of intrusiveness after seeing the checks that were starting to come in and the money that could be made. She remodeled everything in their life to look aesthetically pleasing, to look good on camera. She bribed her kids with money or with being able to use the eight passengers' credit card as a tax write-off for whatever it is they wanted. And constant vlogging became such a new normal in their lives,

• 25:26Annie Elise?

  so much so that Sherri was able to differentiate between Ruby not filming and Ruby filming when she would have her quote "vlog voice" on. Before she ever even would see a camera to confirm, she would just know by the tone of Ruby's voice, "Oh, she's recording right now, we're on vlog", versus, "Oh no, here's her real voice." Now, all the while, behind the scenes and behind the camera, she was using such cruel forms of punishment that would just get worse and worse over the years. In one story, Sherri shared that her brother Chad had taken scissors at a young age and clipped a small piece of her hair. So as a punishment, Ruby cut his hair with an awful streak of bald right down the middle, so that it was sticking out in all these different directions, just to make it look terrible.

• 26:10Annie Elise?

  Her goal was to humiliate him, knowing that that in itself would be Like the perfect punishment. And as Sheri grew older, her mental health worsened. She experienced anxiety, depression, panic attacks, and even at times she had thoughts of taking her own life. And maybe one of the saddest things about it was that Sheri said that even simply imagining no longer being alive would bring her this short-lived but overwhelming sense of peace. Even more upsetting was that even after Sheri gained the courage to open up about all of these struggles, she wasn't taken seriously. I mean, not by Ruby at least. Her dad Kevin wanted her to get into therapy and wanted to help her, but Ruby said she didn't need therapy. So Sheri described her and her brother Chad being very different about their ways of coping.

• 26:55Annie Elise?

  Sheri internalized everything. Chad, on the other hand, acted out. And in typical narcissist fashion, Ruby saw him because of this as a troubled, deviant and delinquent kid. She never sat back to wonder why he was doing the things that he was doing. And that is when Jody came into the picture. According to Sheri, Ruby was just so distraught that her son had turned out the way he did, and she was desperate. It wasn't until after a recommendation came from a family friend for a licensed clinical mental health counselor within the LDS community, and that Ruby just suddenly had this change of heart about therapy. Now it was okay. So Chad started seeing Jody regularly, and eventually Sheri would too. She talked about how from the beginning she was skeptical.

• 27:39Annie Elise?

  She looked her up, she saw some bad reviews and saw people talking about her breaking up marriages and also her getting her license suspended, but none of what she had to say really ever mattered. None of it was a red flag for Ruby. The thousands of dollars that Jody would charge people to come to her seminars and so on and so forth, that wasn't a red flag either. And as Jody taught, she had been chosen by God and therefore was, quote, "the truth." And anyone who had something negative to say about her was simply fighting the truth. Feels very cult leader, doesn't it? So from there, Ruby began to be more enthralled with Jody and her teachings. And that resulted in her becoming a life coach through Jody's teachings and philosophies, through connections. And Sheri described there being a very interesting

• 28:24Annie Elise?

  Switching Ruby after Jody and her teachings came into their lives. On one hand, Ruby seemed happier. She yelled less. She wasn't so easily angry. But on the other hand, her punishments became much crueler and more physically challenging as well. It was almost as if she was happier and less visibly stressed because she genuinely started believing that the way she was acting and how she was now treating her kids was like, okay, and it was normal. So why even be bothered by it? Like, it almost as though she was getting some sort of validation. Now, of course, her cruel punishments couldn't go undiscovered forever. Ruby and the eight passengers, first ever scandal that really was the catalyst of what was to come,

• 29:05Annie Elise?

  was an infamous video where Chad slipped in that he had been sleeping on a beanbag for seven and a half months as a punishment. And this is what really got the ball rolling on seeing this family and their constant vlogging habits as not this angelic and perfect family, but maybe more so one that was putting on a show and hiding things. CPS even got involved after all of the backlash that they got. However, no abuse was ever found and things kind of just went back to normal. So after graduating high school and barely being 18 years old, Sherry ended up in a sticky situation that she never specifically labeled as being groomed, but I feel like one could arguably use that verbiage. This man was higher up in the church. He was married and he was in his 40s.

• 29:49Annie Elise?

  He would take advantage of her at her weakest moments, like in the middle of a panic attack, for example. He preyed on her, knowing that she had nobody to talk to and knowing that she didn't feel comfortable at home. He would lure her in by reminding her that he was always going to be there for her and that he cared about her so much. He constantly ignored her request to not flirt with her and the whole thing was just off-putting and gross, but it went on for a while. So much, in fact, in Sherry's life that once she got a really solid therapist, you know, behind Ruby's back and paid for by the church, she was finally able to remove him from her life. Of course, she faced repercussions for her confession to the bishop, though. Her temple recommendation was temporarily taken away, which is a huge deal in the LDS church. And the man, get this, faced

• 30:34Annie Elise?

  Not a single repercussion. Big surprise, right? Now, this was when Sheri claimed she lost trust and faith run by men like the one taking advantage of her, but she never lost faith in God himself. Ever since Ruby first hired Jody to help with Chad, Jody was a constant part of their life that only just got worse and worse. And finally, two weeks before Sheri was set to attend her freshman year at BYU, Ruby and Kevin came to her with the information that Jody was moving into their house, more specifically into Sheri's bedroom. And the reason for this? Jody was being plagued by demons and she needed protection. I mean, insert mega eye roll, right? She would allegedly act weird and act like she was in a trance state at times claiming to be under a spiritual attack.

• 31:20Annie Elise?

  Then other times she was spouting off about the end of times, which Ruby herself began preparing for. Ruby spent seemingly every waking minute with Jody. Kevin quickly was shoved to the side, only allowed to enter Jody's room with permission. And other times they would make him leave the house. And again, he could only come back to the house with their permission. Now then, here comes the juicy part. Sheri detailed that one night while she was sleeping on the couch before heading off to college, she saw Ruby sneaking out of Jody's room. It was late at night and she said that she was going back into her and Kevin's room with what she described as a very mischievous look on her face. It was clear that she was trying to sneak in there.

• 32:01Annie Elise?

  And after seeing that, she knew deep down that something sexual was going on between Ruby and Jody. Another time, after leaving for college and coming back home to grab a few things, she walked into her old room, AKA Jody's new room, and she saw candles lit everywhere. She also saw massage oil and this overall sensual aura kind of setup. She described what she saw as being, quote, "someone else's honeymoon suite, and the only thing missing was roses on the bed." So that was what pretty much confirmed to her that Jody and Ruby were in a relationship. And no matter how they were defining it, because remember, keep in mind, they were both very openly homophobic and preaching about how sinful it was. And in addition to- The, you know, romantic setup.

• 32:46Annie Elise?

  Sherry also discovered a journal entry of Ruby's where she was frustrated about having to cater to Jody's needs for, quote, "physical affection without getting anything in return." It just feels weird, right? And then there was the fact that Ruby ended up moving out of Kevin's room and into Jody's room, which, I mean, clearly something's going on here. And Kevin was so brainwashed by both of them that he didn't care. And eventually, when they convinced him to spend at least a year away from the family with no contact, also that he would have to, quote, "heal himself" and take Chad with him, he agreed. So this is when things seemed to be at its peak worst for many different reasons. The first being that by at this point, Sherry was estranged from Ruby.

• 33:30Annie Elise?

  They argued constantly with Ruby always making herself a victim, and in turn, Ruby using the younger siblings like pawns. She wasn't allowed to see them, she wasn't allowed to talk to them, and Ruby constantly reminded her that her siblings were scared of her or just didn't like her anymore. It was like Ruby knew what would hurt Sherry the most, and she went for the jugular every single time. And since she wasn't allowed to see Kevin and Chad, since they weren't in the home, the younger siblings were left with Ruby, Jodi, and their insane teachings. Neighbors would watch Ruby's house and constantly check in with Sherry to let her know how her siblings were doing, but eventually, things got even scarier. They reported that Ruby left them home alone for five days while she was off with Jody,

• 34:12Annie Elise?

  four hours away, four hours away from the home that she eventually moved back into. Then she took them out of school completely. She got rid of the dog, she began packing boxes like she was moving and hoping that nobody would ever really find them. This whole time, Sherry did everything in her power to help her siblings. She called DCFS, she called them a number of times, only for the case to be closed with the same excuses as before. Quote, "We want to help and did everything we could, but there's not enough evidence. We can't move forward." According to Sherry, this was due to the newer free-range parenting laws that were signed in 2018 that essentially redefined what neglect was and made it nearly impossible for people like her to step in without an overwhelming amount of proof.

• 34:54Annie Elise?

  Still though, she continued calling in and eventually some neighbors joined in as well. And with each passing day, Sherri feared the absolute worst, especially once the whole Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case came to light. She feared that her siblings would end up just like JJ entirely. So eventually the story went down as we know it and the police raided Ruby's home and later arrested her and Jody. Now again, I'm not going to go into the details of the horrific behavior and what Sherri's siblings endured because neither did she and you can look that up on your own if you want. But her story ends with Ruby and Jody being sentenced. Her siblings were in DCFS custody and her dad finally started to come out of his trance and brainwash that he had been in for so long.

• 35:35Annie Elise?

  Although a lot of people have criticism when it comes to Kevin and whether or not he was involved and could have put a stop to it sooner. Personally, I believe he could have, but Sherri wrote it like he was a victim too. Albeit that she did admit that he turned a blind eye and let things slide for many years. Now despite all of that, she added that she, Kevin and Chad were all in therapy, working on not only themselves individually, but their relationship with one another and that had always been hindered because of Ruby. Kevin even moved back into the house and was working on himself to one day get custody of his kids back. Now, right before this book had come out, which it just came out, you know, last week, Sherri had posted to Instagram announcing her engagement.

• 36:17Annie Elise?

  And she also said that this is going to be the last time she speaks about her story. She says, "I'm excited to share that I'm engaged. However, for me, this is the end of me sharing my private life. I've had my voice and agency taken for so long and now I'm putting my foot down. I'm not going to talk about my wedding, my future husband, or future kids. I'll continue to advocate for kids who didn't have a voice, so you'll still be seeing me, don't worry. But this is closure for me. I'm moving on with my life and that is true freedom and joy. Please respect my privacy and the privacy of my future family and don't speculate or pry. This is my wish and my gift to my family."

• 36:55Annie Elise?

  So like I said, I highly encourage you guys, purchase the book, read it for yourself. I just wanted to give you guys like the high level takeaways. But The amount of strength and bravery is just unbelievable, especially for being, you know, she's a grown up, but like she's still is such a young woman. So I will link all of the deep dives into the show notes so that you can go back and listen because there are so many details about this case, guys. Like I'm talking about Kevin and what really went down with him and Ruby, when then after the arrest, he tried to file charges against his child because she had the passports and things like that. It's very, very messy, but I really wanted the focus of today's episode to be on the book and about Sheri's point of view and the big takeaways from that.

• 37:40Annie Elise?

  So you can go back to the deep dive, or if you want, just let me know and I'll do a whole, like full deep dive, start to finish. So it's all in one episode. Just let me know what you prefer. In any event, let's just continue to, you know, keep Sheri, her siblings and our thoughts, our prayers. Let's hope that they all begin to heal. And personally, I hope that Ruby and Jody are in there way longer than the minimum of four years. I mean, they deserve it. The stuff that they put these kids through, like Jody literally had a safe in the bottom of her house that was like where she held them hostage, essentially. It's just horrific. So they deserve the absolute worst, in my opinion. Thank you guys so much for tuning into another episode.

• 38:24Annie Elise?

  I will keep you updated if anything else does come from this case, but I don't expect it to. I think this was like a good closure for Sheri and go check out her book. I will also link that in the show notes. All right. Thank you guys again. And until the next one, stay safe. Bye.

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