326: D4vd NOT a Suspect, Diddy Sentenced & True Crime Reddit Confessions

This week on Headline Highlights… There are big developments in Diddy’s case as he’s denied acquittal just days before sentencing. The viral dv4d singer is officially cleared as a suspect, while in the Bryan Kohberger trial, the judge has permanently barred the release of graphic crime scene photos. Hulu just dropped a new documentary Death in Apartment 603: What Happened to Ellen Greenberg?—but left out some key details. Plus, Annie is joined in the studio by Kaelyn Moore, host of Heart Starts Pounding, to dive into some juicy true crime Reddit confessions. You won’t want to miss this!🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms🚩 Announcements Want to catch Annie LIVE on tour? 🎟 Grab your tickets now for a city near you! &Merch is officially HERE!🛒 Don't miss out before your faves sell out!📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected]📚 Episode Sources Court TV | New York Post | People.com | Second Judicial District, Latah County | U. S. District Court, Southern District of New York••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

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• 1:27Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Seriallessly.

• 1:49Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Seriallessly with me, your host, Annie E. Lice. And we've got headline highlights today. There are a lot of updates we need to go over. But before we get into all of that, obviously, you can see not only is Amy with me, if you're watching the video version of this, but you can also see we are Not in the normal studio. It's because we just came off of a tour. We had Tampa on Tuesday night, Orlando on Wednesday night. Amazing, amazing shows. And now we are getting ready to travel back home. So we are coming to you and we are just gonna like lay out the updates. We weren't gonna leave you hanging just because we're traveling. Never. Never. There's still a lot we need to talk about. Uh, but that being said,

• 2:34Annie Elise?

  this episode is gonna go a little bit differently. We're gonna go through some updates. I have a special little episode snack for you, if you will. Um, also, as a reminder, if you feel like you are just in need of binging a lot of true crime at this very moment, I've got you covered. Reminder, we launched 10 to Life as a podcast this week and for the premiere of it, we dropped two massive episodes on Tuesday. So for all of those of you who are watching on YouTube, that's the podcast version is now available. If you're only listening to this because you've been a podcast listener, 10 to Life is my YouTube series. That's where I first started.

• 3:15Annie Elise?

  We have over 500 million views over there, um, a million and a half subscribers and so many of you, especially on the tour, have been telling me you wish that it was a daily show that you would binge an episode every day. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we already have a lot of content going on. So we now are posting 10 to Life available as a podcast as well. And so as a little special treat this week, we dropped two brand new episodes on Tuesday. So you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Don't worry, all my YouTube OGs, nothing is changing at all. You can watch those videos on YouTube. It's just now, you know, more accessibility. Anywhere you are at any point in time, whether you're driving, you're working out. More Annie Ely.

• 3:58Annie Elise?

  More Annie Ely. This is just what everybody wants, right? God. Okay, so that being said, if you feel like you still need more to binge, that's in the feed. Just search 10 to life on whatever podcast app you are listening on. And then my YouTube OGs, you already know where to find it. So let's talk about updates because you guys have been slithering and sliding in my DMs, especially regarding Diddy. And so I don't even know if you know all of this.

• 4:25Speaker 04

  I don't, that's why I was asking.

• 4:26Annie Elise?

  I know, there's a lot we have to go over because I think you're going to be pissed off because we've personally talked about the sentence before about like what the possibility is.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I saw that and I'm not happy with it.

• 4:36Annie Elise?

  I know. So basically, let me kind of rewind a little bit. So Diddy was denied acquittal and also denied a new trial just days before his sentencing was set to take place, which happened, by the way, on October 3rd. I feel like everything happened on October 3rd.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  Honestly, I hate that day.

• 4:51Annie Elise?

  No, I know. Ever since Mean Girls, Taylor Swift, it's like October 3rd is like the day. So he had sent a letter to the judge like begging for a second chance and the judge is like, no, we're doing sentencing.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  I thought that he was going to get that.

• 5:05Annie Elise?

  No, I, no, I, I'm kind of shocked he wasn't released on bail pending sentencing. That surprised me, but anyway, so the sentencing went forward and the prosecution was asking for 11 years, yet the defense was asking for 14 months. But each count that Diddy was facing held a maximum of a 10-year sentence, meaning that the judge could have sentenced him up to 20 years. So anyway, the judge sentenced him to 50 months, which basically equates to a little more than four years. It's like four years and two months. However, he also gets time served.

• 5:39Speaker 04

  How long his time served?

• 5:40Annie Elise?

  14 months. So chances are he's probably going to be released in just over two and a half years. But if there's any release to good behavior or, you know, overpopulation or anything like that, I think we could see him out in under two years. And that has a lot of people pissed off based on everything, which. I kind of, I get like, look, let me just say this. I understand it because the charges that he was convicted of, although serious and not okay, were not as serious as everything else we had learned about him. The freak offs, the Cassie video, all of that.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  The stuff that he got off on.

• 6:16Annie Elise?

  Yes.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  I know. And that's kind of what I was thinking too, is like, based on these lesser charges, I thought he was actually gonna probably even get less.

• 6:23Annie Elise?

  I know. Me too. I think.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  Nervous about that.

• 6:25Annie Elise?

  I think I originally, when he was down guilty, said, I think he'll be sentenced to two and a half years or times, yeah, and get out with easier, yeah, time served. So, a lot of people are obviously outraged because it feels like justice has now been failed twice, not only at the conviction portion of the trial, but now at the sentencing as well. So, I guess we'll see when he gets out. Um, there's, I gotta say, the court sketch artist, okay, they are not doing Diddy any favors. You know how like these, like sketches of these people? When there are no cameras in the courtroom or videos in the courtroom, they have the sketch artists. They have, of course, have been drawing sketches this whole time of him like looking sad, somber, his kids surrounding him.

• 7:05Annie Elise?

  There is one sketch, and I actually have to verify if it's AI or not. I don't think it is, but it's like, it's so absurd that like, I feel like it might be. He's literally like dropped to his knees when he hears the sentencing, and he's kind of in like, kind of like a doggy position. And so you can only imagine the memes at the comments. They're all, get the baby oil ready.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, where are the baby oils?

• 7:27Annie Elise?

  Or like, he's so excited. He's going to places.

• 7:30Speaker 04

  Oh, he's all ready to go.

• 7:33Annie Elise?

  I know, I know. So, I mean, whatever, not that we like.

• 7:37Speaker 04

  Let's take this theatrical, like, when they get convicted, like.

• 7:40Annie Elise?

  Oh, like Donna Edelstein?

• 7:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was just thinking that.

• 7:42Annie Elise?

  I know, it, cause.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  They truly did not think they were gonna get.

• 7:46Annie Elise?

  What, what, they got, I know. And the world is watching, saying.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  Can't buy you freedom.

• 7:51Annie Elise?

  Money can't buy you class. Elegance is earned.

• 7:57Annie Elise?

  Well, you should know, that's for all our Housewives watchers. Um, okay, now let's move in to the David of it all. Because there has been a lot going on with David. And for those of you who are just catching up, David is the singer who drove the Tesla. A body of Celeste Hernandez was found inside that Tesla, frunk, which is front trunk. I hate saying that word. You still have to say that. I know. Um, her body was very badly decomposed. And everybody, of course, has been like pulling parallels between David's music, his lyrics, his tour, aesthetics, all of that, and his connection with Celeste and saying that he is the one responsible. Albeit, no proof. So now his manager is speaking out, and we did a whole deep dive on this

• 8:42Annie Elise?

  um, a couple of weeks ago. So you can find it in the feed where I go through all of the allegations, what everybody has found and just kind of like put it back to you for you guys to determine what you think happened. But anyway, his manager is speaking out now. And he could not distance himself further from David. He said, and I want to read this, it is a direct quote. He said, "I have never received any emails. I have zero knowledge of anything and I don't live in California. Also, I work remotely 95% of the time and my job doesn't require me to have much interaction with any of my clients or David, as there are many other that work with him on a day-to-day capacity, not me." Which it feels like he's like, "Yeah, see, I won't want to be a like Scram. I don't want to be a part of this."

• 9:26Annie Elise?

  So still, there's nothing that has tied David directly to this. In fact, I know, a lot of people still think there is involvement, or that maybe it was someone from his entourage who helped and there was like some sort of cover up. Maybe she OD'd, maybe things went too far, who knows? And that like somebody else is the one responsible rather than him. But I will say this, the police department has said that there are no suspects at this time, including David. And the reason they say that is because they cannot determine her cause of death because of how badly decomposed her body was. So they're like, basically, if we have no cause of death, no manner of death, then how are we supposed to even have a suspect?

• 10:07Annie Elise?

  At best, at this point, you would get charged with like concealment of a body or like, um, Uh, what's the discarding, I don't know. Disposing. Disposing, thank you, of a corpse, like those charges, which are obviously far less severe. So they just know there's obviously a connection between the two. There's the tattoo, there's the dating, there's all of that, but there's not necessarily any proof of. Now, and that's even. Sort of even? No, and that's kind of even arguable because that tattoo is a popular tattoo. A lot of people have it. Okay. And even though we have seen, or like the public has seen little connections between the two of them, the police haven't outright said that they have verified any connection. I mean, I'm sure it's there and I know that

• 10:47Annie Elise?

  they said that he is cooperating, that he has turned over some of his devices, which we know devices will be king and carry everything. But it's interesting and we'll see what happens from there. Now, I will say there was speculation that she was pregnant and luckily it's been confirmed she was not pregnant. So, I mean, at least there's that, but there have been a lot of. Just seeing, did he think she was pregnant? Maybe. I mean, I think that kind of was just a rumor that the internet took and ran with, so. I don't know. We'll keep watching this. We'll see what we learn, but as of now, no suspects and his manager is like really trying to distance himself from him. Uh, now just a quick update with our favorite loser douchebag of all time, Brian Koberger. Ugh. Like. Get this guy out of here.

• 11:31Annie Elise?

  Literally get him off the face of the planet and those selfies that emerged a few weeks ago and the video of him going into Costco. I don't know if you saw that. He is such a freak. Getting all this stuff out there. Well, it's all stuff that they had in evidence and now that the gag order has been lifted, things are slowly dripping and coming through. I just want people to forget him. I know. He's so, well, luckily I will say this, the crime scene photos, some of them were released about a month ago and I have like a huge problem with that because the family doesn't want those out there either. Obviously you wouldn't want the worst day of your life out there for like public fodder. No way. But just this last week, the judge did permanently ban graphic photos of the crime scene from being released. So that does feel like a small win, which.

• 12:14Annie Elise?

  I don't, I would imagine that he still has those though if he has access to his file with his attorney, which is sick because then he can relive everything and like it's just so disgusting. And maybe that's incorrect. That's just like what my thought is, but I'm not a lawyer. So who knows? So basically what the judge had said is that the city had blurred certain parts of the photos because they knew that things were going to be released. But then they're saying like, no, the blurring, you can still see the edges, the outlines. That's insufficient. We need to actually bar these graphic photos from being released. So I feel like that is a win. He doesn't want it even out there of like how the victims were positioned, how, you know, what the crime scene looked like, even if it's just a silhouette of it. And so I think that that was really important.

• 12:57Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, I feel like the families deserve some sort of a win.

• 13:01Annie Elise?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 13:03Speaker 04

  At this point.

• 13:04Annie Elise?

  Now, speaking of families who deserve a win, we need to talk about Ellen Greenberg. Okay? Did you watch it?

• 13:10Speaker 04

  I've, yeah, I'm actually almost finished, but I was watching it yesterday as I was putting away laundry and I heard your voice.

• 13:16Annie Elise?

  In a buck. I, I, yes, I am in it. Um, no. So the new docu-series, Death in Apartment 603, released last week on Hulu. I also, for my YouTube viewers, I'm sorry, but I released an Ellen episode last week on the podcast feed here on Serialistically. You can go back and listen to it. And here's what I have to say about that. Whether you've watched the series or not, I don't know why they left out so much of the political connection. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but we included it in our episode. But basically, first of all, for those of you who don't know what this case is, basically Ellen was in her twenties. She went home one day during a snow day. She was a teacher and her fiance went down to the gym. When he came back up, the door was latched.

• 14:00Annie Elise?

  He broke down the door. She was stabbed over 20 times in the back of her head, the back of her neck. And very weird things about the crime scene, very shady 911 call. And things that just did not make sense. They had ruled it homicide, then it went to suicide. Now the medical examiner is saying their opinion is it is a homicide and A lot of people, from what I've seen online, since they've watched this docu-series, believe that Sam, the fiance, is involved, especially because Ellen had bruises all over her body in various stages of healing. She wasn't wearing her engagement ring. It was like she hadn't been wearing it. People were saying she was gonna call it off. And we do explore a lot of that piece of it in the episode two. But what people are not talking

• 14:41Annie Elise?

  about, or, and maybe they didn't include it in the series for legality issues, I don't know, but there are direct political connections with Sam contacted his cousin that day before he even called 911. And the cousin came to the apartment. The next day, his uncle and him, see, grabbed her devices. Shapiro is a family friend. There's so much crossover, and I'm not gonna get into it in this episode. Go listen to the deep dive, cuz I outline it, to where I don't love jumping on the conspiracy theory train. I certainly think that there was plenty of opportunity for cover up here. And to like, cover Sam's ass because his family knows people in high places.

• 15:22Speaker 04

  Well, it's on Hulu, so they have to really be careful.

• 15:24Annie Elise?

  Exactly.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  Probably why. But yeah, I actually felt that the documentary leaned, I, I, I'm not quite down with it, but it almost leaned more towards like, showing that suicide was possible, when I was like, absolutely not. And I still think absolutely not.

• 15:40Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 15:41Speaker 04

  But I felt like they were kind of showing both sides equally for part of it.

• 15:45Annie Elise?

  Yeah. I, I agree. There were parts where it definitely made sense. I think too, one of the statements that I took away from it, which I've long known this, is that in stabbing suicides, it's very, very rare, if ever, that you will see people stab at the back of their body.

• 16:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course.

• 16:01Annie Elise?

  I, it's usually like, quick in the front, or like, you know, not to get TMI. So, I don't know. Go listen to that deep dive. I'm curious to know what you guys all think. But...

• 16:10Speaker 04

  Those poor parents.

• 16:11Annie Elise?

  Those poor parents. And like, as the dad was saying in his interview on it, like, I just hope that we get answers before it's my time. And her mom was saying how she's just trying to stay healthy.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  I was just gonna say that. I have chills right now.

• 16:23Annie Elise?

  I know. And they actually participated in our episode. We interviewed them, so you can hear that as well. So, again, that's on the Serial Sleet podcast feed. Free to listen to, but on Podcasts, Spotify, or Apple. So with that, those are all the updates I wanted to share. And now, is where I have the little present. The little... Episode snack, if you will. A couple of weeks ago, you may be familiar with the podcast Hearts Start Pounding with Kaelyn Moore. She's incredible. She also does a podcast called Clues with Morgan from Two Hot Takes or Hot Takes, something like that. Sorry, I'm butchering the name, but you get what I'm saying. So she came into my studio a couple of weeks ago and we went through true, true crime stories on Reddit that people have shared. And so we kind of share some

• 17:07Annie Elise?

  back and forth with each other. And these are so beyond unhinged. We recorded it. So I'm going to play that for you now. But it's crazy when you hear somebody's firsthand account storytell what happened to them and their experience. So I'm going to play that for you guys now. I hope you enjoy that. And then I will jump back on with you and we will talk a little bit more.

• 17:28Speaker 05

  Annie, welcome to Hearts Starts Pounding.

• 17:29Annie Elise?

  Hi, thanks for having me.

• 17:31Speaker 05

  So happy to have you on. This episode that I have planned for you is going to be a little bit of a doozy.

• 17:36Annie Elise?

  I'm excited.

• 17:36Speaker 05

  I wanted to pick stories, especially for you and the stuff that you cover. I found a lot of Reddit stories that feel like they could be true crime documentaries.

• 17:44Annie Elise?

  For sure.

• 17:45Speaker 05

  People just writing about some of the craziest stuff that's ever happened to them, which is really your domain.

• 17:50Annie Elise?

  I mean, I live for that. I was like, hopefully it's not like overly true crime, but like, I love when people talk about what they experienced firsthand and you kind of get to like dive into their world from their perspective.

• 18:01Speaker 05

  I'm the same way. I feel like a lot of times, like at least on Hearts Starts Pounding, what we cover, I read a lot of newspaper articles and books and stuff, but it's so great to actually like be in the skin of the person experiencing something. Have you watched any true crime documentaries recently that have really stuck out to you?

• 18:16Annie Elise?

  So not true crime, but I guess true crime adjacent, kind of true crime, The Catfish documentary, Unknown Texter Caller, whatever it's called. I did a whole deep dive on my podcast about that this Monday, unhinged.

• 18:29Speaker 05

  And you did the stuff that wasn't in the documentary, right?

• 18:32Annie Elise?

  They left quite a bit out.

• 18:33Speaker 05

  They did. Because the mom was a lot more of a problem than they actually talked about in the documentary, which is wild.

• 18:38Annie Elise?

  And how she like just so casually is like, well, yeah, everybody messes up. It's like, no, you were a predator sending the most graphic text messages to this kid. Why aren't you on the registry? Like, what's going? On here.

• 18:50Speaker 05

  Why are you not still in jail? There I I have so many questions after watching that doc. And then after, yeah, reading more about just how obsessed she was with the kid.

• 18:57Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 18:58Speaker 05

  So concerning.

• 18:59Annie Elise?

  It is. And then not documentary, but draw, I guess it's what docu-series or dramatization? Amanda Knox on Hulu, I'm back in that.

• 19:07Speaker 05

  Oh, I watched the first episode and I wasn't hooked, but do you think, is it worth continuing to watch?

• 19:12Annie Elise?

  No, I mean,

• 19:15Annie Elise?

  I know the story so well. So like, the only reason I'm watching it is kind of just because that's one that I actually get requests for all the time. And I'm like, why would I go back and cover Amanda Knox? There's no value that's ad that's gonna happen.

• 19:26Speaker 05

  Oh, interesting that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:28Annie Elise?

  But I get why you wouldn't be hooked. It's kind of shot from a weird point of view. And there's like weird humor elements involved in it, too, that I don't love.

• 19:35Speaker 05

  Magic realism in the first episode with some of the shots.

• 19:38Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 19:38Speaker 05

  But it's pretty, they stick to the story pretty much like.

• 19:42Annie Elise?

  It's her point of view and she's, I believe, the EP on it. So.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:46Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 19:47Annie Elise?

  But just those so far. What about you?

• 19:49Speaker 05

  The catfish one.

• 19:49Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 05

  That's the one that everyone told me to watch. And so I watched it immediately and was like, my job was on the floor. I, that was one where I had a friend come over and tell me to watch it. And she watched with like her back to the TV, just watching.

• 20:01Annie Elise?

  Oh, my gosh. Did she? She should have filmed your reactions.

• 20:04Speaker 05

  I know, I know. I've been getting TikToks of people being like, my boyfriend.

• 20:07Annie Elise?

  Finding out.

• 20:08Speaker 05

  He realized what's going on. And people like even my mom watched it and she's like, I was ready to throw something at the television.

• 20:14Annie Elise?

  I know.

• 20:15Speaker 05

  That's been the big one. So let's get into the stories today. We're gonna cover a lot of stuff that really feels like it could be the subject of a true crime doc.

• 20:22Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 20:23Speaker 05

  So the first story that I have for you that I'm gonna read is just titled Sociopath Kidnapper and Supermarket Parking Lot.

• 20:29Annie Elise?

  Oh, great.

• 20:30Speaker 05

  And this is from a Reddit user called Office Fern 007, and it was originally posted on January 9th, 2019 in the Let's Not Meet subreddit. So this story included trigger warnings for attempted kidnapping and physical assault. And the poster writes, "My husband and I were at a supermarket and our baby was being especially fussy. So he took her for a quick drive. The motion usually calms her down. It only took about 10 minutes to settle her and I was still inside the store, but I was unsure of how much longer it would be. And there's also poor cell reception inside. So he pulled back into the parking lot to wait for me. It was an unseasonably nice day. So he took her in her car seat to sit on one of the benches outside of the store." He took a business call and had just sat them down, absentmindedly rocking the carrier,

• 21:15Speaker 05

  when a woman who was well dressed in her mid 30s, average height, fit build, approached them. It's not uncommon for people to ask to play with our baby. She's got these big rosy cheeks, especially when she's like having a really good nap. But her nap schedule is really important to us. So my husband was preparing to tell the woman that she actually couldn't play with our baby right there and then. But this woman walked over right in their direction, brimming with this nonchalant confidence. And before he could even finish his sentence, explaining that she was napping and not to be touched, this woman picked up the carrier and just started walking off. What? He was in shock for a moment, not fully believing someone would be ballsy enough to do something so sinister in plain daylight. So he said, excuse me, put her down in a really panicked voice.

• 22:00Speaker 05

  She remained calm the entire time. But when he called after her, she started walking away more briskly than when she had approached. He ran full speed ahead to try to grapple the carrier out of her hands, finally resulting in him restraining her arms. And the woman starts yelling, "Help, he's trying to take my baby. Kidnapping, 911, help." She starts kicking him in the shin, pulling a pink bottle of pepper spray out of her handbag. Of course, no one in the parking lot had seen their earlier interactions, so they assumed he was really a kidnapper. I mean, think about it, a lone man in a Deadpool t-shirt versus this tiny, well-dressed woman. Immediately, a man knocked my husband to the ground and started holding him down. He could hear bystanders encouraging the woman to file a police report,

• 22:45Speaker 05

  but she was doing a very convincing job of acting really shaken up and insisted that she just wanted to get home. To make matters worse for my husband, she was driving a minivan. He was in a raw state of panic, realizing the entire parking lot had banded together to inadvertently facilitate the kidnapping of our daughter. He was begging and pleading with them, but no one was listening. They just kept screaming at him that the jig was up and he needed to lie still and wait for the police and stop terrorizing this young mother. My husband finally had the novel idea to show them family pictures on his phone, but because he was too panicked to think clearly, this manifested as him shouting, "I have pictures of the baby on my phone." And that, of course, made the situation entirely worse.

• 23:29Speaker 05

  It was at this point that a man, I mean, I can barely blame him considering what he thought was going on, started kicking my husband as hard as he could in the ribs. Finally, I came out of the store and I thought he was being robbed by these people. I started yelling for security. I was so panicked, my chest was constricting and I could barely get any sound out. But then I had the horrible realization that he did not have our baby with him. When I saw that she was being held by a woman, I was relieved. I thought maybe this woman had intervened to move my daughter out of harms way while my husband was being robbed and walking away to get help. I couldn't find a security guard outside the store, so I ran up to the people holding my husband down, waving my wallet, pleading, "Take everything you want, just leave us alone." And one of the men holding him down said something like,

• 24:13Speaker 05

  "Lady, we need to wait for police to deal with him." And I was confused. Why would the muggers have called the police? I just kept stammering, "What do you mean? What are you talking about?" And made out someone saying, "He tried to abduct that woman's kid." I didn't understand. I thought I had misheard him. My husband would never hurt a child. Also, we have four kids, so if he was going to commit a crime, he was not going to bring another kid home. That would have been at the bottom of his list. I kept trying to understand what the man was saying and suddenly it all clicked. I looked around for the woman who had our baby carrier and she was halfway across the parking lot. I went into total ballistic tiger cub mode, literally leapt out of my heels, sprinted across the parking lot. I'm not a UFC fighter. I've never taken a self-defense class.

• 24:56Speaker 05

  So all I could think to do was grab the woman by her hair and squeeze her throat with my other hand. It didn't really do much. She was still getting away even as I grappled with her. Amazingly, none of the other bystanders had yet to connect that my husband was telling the truth and this woman was actually leaving with my baby. I yanked her hair as hard as I could and it was enough to get her to drop the carrier. I was so scared and surprised that I actually threw myself on top of the carrier, covering the entire thing like a blanket. And I stayed that way without saying or doing anything else. The woman left. Not one person tried to stop her, even though she was clearly leaving without the child that she claimed was hers, which would be pretty damn incriminating if I had watched this scene unfold. Within the next couple of minutes, the police had arrived.

• 25:39Speaker 05

  After all that, there were still several bystanders who explained... That my husband was most likely trying to kidnap the baby. The police, to my horror, assumed that she must not have had bad intentions. The first questions they asked me after getting her description weren't investigative. They were questions thinly veiled, trying to convince me not to pursue charges, still placing the blame on my husband. A small sampling. Do your husband and the baby look dissimilar? Is there a chance that she thought he was abducting the baby and she was trying to intervene? Could your husband have been doing something inappropriate or violent to the baby that would have made her feel compelled to extricate the baby from the situation? Did she seem groggy or confused? Could she have mistaken either of them for her own family members?

• 26:24Speaker 05

  They spent more time verifying that the baby was actually mine than they concerned themselves with the fact that the baby was not actually hers. My husband had called his brother at that point, who works in an office with a lot of lawyers, and we connected with one ASAP who gave us the priceless advice to get every officer's name and badge number to request copies of the store's security tapes right away and to escalate our complaint higher up the chain if these officers were not taking us seriously. Finally, we had enough reason to believe that we were being taken seriously. And we went home and both of us just shook and cried until we had to get our other kids from school. My husband is seething with rage and grappling with a feeling of helplessness from how little he was able to do. And he has two cracked ribs from the man who kicked him.

• 27:07Speaker 05

  To the officer's credit, they did ask if he would like to press charges, but considering that the man was genuinely trying to intervene and he was convinced at the time that he was on the right side by intervening on a kidnapper and stayed to talk to the police, he also apologized profusely when the truth became clear, he declined to press charges. Amazingly and frustratingly, there were still people who stuck around to talk to the police, who were giving my husband dirty looks, and one man who even implored that the police involved CPS to verify that it was our baby, really. So someone actually commented on this thread and they said that something very similar actually had happened to them. They said, "Someone sent me your post because it was so similar. I'm so sorry that you went through this nightmare. Congratulations on you guys for remaining so calm

• 27:52Speaker 05

  and acting so decisively." And then another commenter wrote, "I remember you. Did they catch that woman and did they press charges against the man who broke your husband's rib?" And the original poster said that they had a suspect they wanted to bring in for questioning, but so far have been unable to find her. They're fairly certain they know who it is and that this person is afflicted with a pretty severe mental illness. If or when she comes into contact with the police again, they're supposed to send her back here for questioning. I take comfort in at least knowing that it most likely wasn't a sex trafficking thing. We ultimately did not end up pressing charges against any of the men. We just wanted to put the whole thing behind us, but thank you for asking. And that's the whole story.

• 28:32Annie Elise?

  And when was that again?

• 28:33Speaker 05

  That was 2019.

• 28:35Annie Elise?

  That is, first of all, so scary. But also, as you were saying that, I was kind of thinking to myself, that's the perfect crime for a kidnapper.

• 28:44Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 28:44Annie Elise?

  You got a minivan. You have this woman who looks like unassuming. She's saying that it's her child. Like, anybody in public, like, nine times out of 10, would think that it is her child.

• 28:55Speaker 05

  You can't, you almost can't fault the people who were trying to stand up for her, because they had no idea what was going on. They just see this woman who is saying that a man was trying to abduct their child.

• 29:05Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 05

  Normally, that's how it works anyways.

• 29:07Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 29:08Speaker 05

  So of course, they're gonna believe her. But like...

• 29:11Annie Elise?

  It makes sense that you say that mental health was at play, because it seems as though she possibly, I mean, anybody could say it, whether or not it's true or not. But when she was saying, "He's trying to take my baby," maybe she really did have that illness where she thought that this was her child or something like that.

• 29:25Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Like, she was having some sort of delusion that this was actually her baby and she was doing the right thing. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. They make a note at the end that this wasn't some sort of trafficking endeavor. It didn't seem like it was a big organized crime, which would always be my fear, that there's some very specific reason why you're taking the child. This was maybe just a woman that was having a crisis. But...

• 29:47Annie Elise?

  Still unnerving.

• 29:48Speaker 05

  Still so unnerving. I feel like I hear stories, not all the time, but like, cases where someone will steal someone's baby from the hospital.

• 29:57Annie Elise?

  Yes.

• 29:57Speaker 05

  Or, there was just actually this year, a cold case. It was like, one of the longest ever... Missing person cases where they found the person alive, but it was a man who was kidnapped as a baby from a hospital by just a stranger woman who then flew him to the East Coast and they found him at like 80 years old. They were able to identify-

• 30:17Annie Elise?

  Wait, I've heard about this. I think I may have covered this in headline highlights and they did some sort of like genealogy testing or something to track it, right?

• 30:23Speaker 05

  Yes. Wild that they can still find people after all that time.

• 30:27Annie Elise?

  I know. And like at that point, it's like you're at the end of your life and you realize your whole life was a lie. How do you even grapple with that and like try to, I don't know, come to terms with that?

• 30:38Speaker 05

  I don't know. I, I mean, my family has definitely gone through like 23 and me testing where you realize-

• 30:45Annie Elise?

  Things are weird.

• 30:46Speaker 05

  Things are weird.

• 30:47Annie Elise?

  I've done that.

• 30:49Speaker 05

  You realize, oh, I didn't think anyone in our family was Italian and I'm 50% Italian. What's going on there?

• 30:54Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 30:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, a lot of secrets are coming out for a lot of families.

• 30:58Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Which is crazy. But most of the time it's just that, at least like with our family, it's who you thought was your dad was not really your dad. It's not necessarily like this person stole you from a grocery store.

• 31:08Annie Elise?

  No, could you imagine? Wow.

• 31:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. Very scary. Something, ever since I read this story, I've been kind of just turning it over my head and very terrified of it happening.

• 31:19Annie Elise?

  It's a very real threat that could be out there because anybody could do this.

• 31:23Speaker 05

  I mean, you're a mom. Do you ever, like, is that just kind of always running in the back of your head when you take your kids places?

• 31:28Annie Elise?

  Yes.

• 31:29Speaker 05

  Or is it something you're, you're able to put it aside?

• 31:31Annie Elise?

  No, unfortunately, it's like even going to Target, doing all those things, I'm always so hyper paranoid just watching my back everywhere I go.

• 31:39Speaker 05

  Really?

• 31:39Annie Elise?

  Because, I don't know, you just, the world is getting so scary and that's not to fear my hunger, but it's like there is a big fear of that because people are doing things every single day and snatching kids and robbing people and do it. It's always a fear.

• 31:55Speaker 05

  Have you ever had a situation where you felt weird and you were like, I have to remove my kids because I feel like something could happen?

• 32:01Annie Elise?

  No, luckily I haven't. I'm like trying to think back and nothing comes to mind. So nothing directly.

• 32:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:08Annie Elise?

  But I do get the intrusive thoughts all the time and those never go away either. Even like almost every single day when I leave the studio and get in my car, I know I dropped my kids off at school, but I have this thought of like, what if I left them in the backseat? And I check it like every single day. It's so crazy.

• 32:22Speaker 05

  Oh, even that. I mean, we have a lot of parents who listen to this show. So I'm curious if you guys listening, definitely.

• 32:29Annie Elise?

  I mean, am I alone? Yeah. Am I alone with all these intrusive thoughts?

• 32:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:34Annie Elise?

  Tell me I need to go back to therapy.

• 32:35Speaker 05

  No, it kind of like helps normalize it, I guess. If everyone's like, no, I always fret that my kids are in the backseat when I drop them off at school.

• 32:42Annie Elise?

  Totally.

• 32:42Speaker 05

  I think it's just something a lot of people deal with.

• 32:50Annie Elise?

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• 33:35Annie Elise?

  Chime is a fintech, not bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for details.

• 33:54Annie Elise?

  Okay. So should we get into this next story?

• 33:55Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 33:56Annie Elise?

  Okay. So the title of this one is, I think my mother-in-law tried to kill me. The poster is Sugar Mama and there is a trigger warning of incesty behavior and attempted murder. Not looking good. Okay. So I have been married for a week now. My mother-in-law always hated me and blatantly told me that. My husband also has no spine. Today is the day that I annulled my marriage. There is no need for divorce under six months in the country that I live in. Now, my mother-in-law tried everything to get me away from her son and she finally succeeded. The following is what she did that led me to my decision. I have a very crazy allergy against latex. I react really badly to it. We found out when I was a little toddler and I was treated

• 34:40Annie Elise?

  in the hospital and went into shock after a nurse just touched me. Since then, I have a little sticker on my driver's license and I wear an allergy necklace. I can even die from sniffing a glove. My mother-in-law knew this because my husband, well, ex-husband, had told her. Last week, after I got home from work, I was angry with my ex-husband. I can't remember why. Everything is really fuzzy now. I cannot remember too well. However, I went to bed early. I had just bought this bed a month ago because I refused to sleep in our old one. The reason being, my mother-in-law slept there the night after our wedding. I spent my wedding night on the couch, but that's a whole other story. When I got into bed, it felt really comfy, but I could feel something strange. It felt like a small

• 35:23Annie Elise?

  layer of plastic under my mattress. I assumed that this was normal since it's a new bed. I might have missed some of the plastic cover on the mattress. I didn't think too much about it and I went to sleep. I woke up 17 hours later in the hospital. My ex-mother-in-law cut up 75 latex gloves to create a little layer under my duvet cover. I do not remember any of this, but when my husband went to bed several hours later, he found me white as a ghost, sweating and barely breathing. You know why I knew it was my mother-in-law? Because she called me later to brag about it. While in the hospital, she told my ex-husband that she was afraid that I would wet the bed since I acted so childish. I am a 27-year-old woman.

• 36:07Annie Elise?

  My ex-husband, instead of going full no-contact, said that he was sorry about my behavior. He was sorry. I was in the hospital for a week. My ex-husband only visited me once, and that was to make me apologize to his mother, which I did not. I asked for security and told everyone he was not allowed to be back in my room. I don't know what happened. I don't. He was never like this. We had been together for five years. It's like I married a man that I had never met before. I'm still shaking with anger and disappointment, and I'm pissed at myself. How could I have married a man like this? How could I still love him after everything that he has done to me? Thank you for reading. Now, a commenter, first of all, that's a lot to take in. That is a ride.

• 36:50Annie Elise?

  Yeah, that is a crazy-ass mother-in-law story. So a commenter said, "Please tell me that she has been arrested." And the original poster says, "I pressed charges. Arrest is still pending." Then she posted another update, saying, "Update to the day I nullified my marriage." Yep, already. And this one was posted February 21, 2018. It says, "So, I already got an update for you. No time to mourn for me, I guess. To clarify, yes, my dumb ex-husband did want me to apologize, but not because of the attempted murder. Took me a while to accept that this was actually what she wanted, but because I hung up the phone on her while I was at the hospital and she called me to brag about her, quote,

• 37:35Annie Elise?

  'forethinking.' I honestly do not know if my ex-husband intended for his mother to do what she did. I just know that she got a key from my apartment, and she did what she did while he was at work. I did not know that she was even there or that she received our spare key, but she must have done this in the early morning. I started work at 4:00 a.m. and I got home at approximately 4:00 p.m. and I went to bed at 8:00 p.m." So, my wonderful, wonderful aunt is a lawyer, and she called me and told me that my mother-in-law, who I will Now refer to as Latex Lucy is in custody. Unfortunately, my ex-husband was already released from the police. Apparently, he told them that he was not aware that the gloves were made out of latex, because you cannot buy latex gloves in an ordinary supermarket here.

• 38:18Annie Elise?

  And I honestly do not know if he's being truthful, or if he just does not want to go to prison. Then, another update was posted a few months later, in April, April 27, 2018, saying, "Update to Latex Lucy, I am sorry." Hello, guys, it's me again. Here is an update to the situation with Latex Lucy. Yesterday, she was sentenced to 13 months in prison. After that, she will have to spend a month in a psychiatric ward. She's not allowed in my immediate vicinity under any circumstances whatsoever. The trial was hard, really hard. I got married just three months ago, and everyone that danced at my wedding and congratulated me was there at the trial. I felt like they all hated me. But nothing hurt me more than the way that my ex looked at me.

• 39:03Annie Elise?

  So disappointed. I am a mess, but this sub has a therapeutic effect on me. So thank you, guys, for everything you have done for me. I'll try to calm down, maybe I can go into more detail. Thank you so much. Then we have one final update from the poster, almost a year after her first post. This one is titled, "Latex Lucy Was Released From Prison." And it was posted on January 9, 2019. Hello, everyone. I am much better now. I barely think about Latex Lucy and my ex-husband, because I moved on with my life. I have a new boyfriend now. Our relationship is exactly a month old, and everything is fine. And today, I got a call from my lawyer aunt that Latex Lucy was released from prison today.

• 39:45Annie Elise?

  She was supposed to serve 13 months, but she ended up serving almost eight. And she only spent two weeks in a psych ward. My aunt told me that she also said that she would like to apologize to me in person. I laughed. Guys, I couldn't stop. I literally laughed out loud, and I was like, I was not physically able to stop it. And after I calmed down, I said, "No," very loudly. And my aunt told me that she thought that would be my reaction. She said she just wanted to ask me first. I live very, very far from where I used to live, and I haven't talked to my ex since the day I saw him at the trial. But I'm still scared. I'm scared that this woman will somehow find me. I'm just glad I'm not alone. Hope you guys are okay. Stay safe.

• 40:26Speaker 05

  Wow. It kind of reminds me of that mushroom poisoning case.

• 40:30Annie Elise?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 40:31Speaker 05

  She killed her husband's family, correct?

• 40:34Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 05

  And her husband was supposed to be there.

• 40:36Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 05

  At the, yes.

• 40:38Annie Elise?

  I mean, it's really wild. I've heard a lot of mother-in-law horror stories. And I mean, look at the Adelson case. I don't know if you've been following that with Donna Adelson in Florida. It's Tallahassee.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  I'm not as familiar with that one. Someone just sent me an article.

• 40:49Annie Elise?

  It's like this whole murder-for-hire plot. And basically, her daughter Wendy, her ex-husband, Dan Markel, they had like this horrible custody dispute. And the mother-in-law is the matriarch of this family and enlisted the brother, the brother's ex-girlfriend, all of these people in this like conspiracy murder plot against Dan Markel. Four, no, five people now have been convicted. And everybody thinks Wendy, the daughter, the ex-wife is about to be charged next. She hasn't been charged.

• 41:16Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 41:17Annie Elise?

  But it's like, I've heard of mother-in-law stories.

• 41:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:19Annie Elise?

  This kind of is next level. To be so calculated that you snip up 27 latex gloves and like, put them under the duvet?

• 41:27Speaker 05

  True. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, the amount of, and especially because there was that note that they said of, you can't just buy them in grocery stores. I don't know if they're in the UK or where they were posting from. But yeah, you just can't get it in a grocery store. So like, this person had to hunt down medical-grade latex gloves.

• 41:42Annie Elise?

  Yes.

• 41:42Speaker 05

  Snip them all up and put them. At first, I was thinking, because I do hear a lot of horror stories, mother-in-law stories, and just like, parent stories in general, grandparents' stories of like, not trusting allergies. Being like, no one really has a gluten allergy. Like, I'm just gonna make a normal cake and I'll lie about it. And then you feed it to someone and that person actually does have a reaction. And so at first, I was like, maybe it's that where they think, she thinks that her daughter-in-law is being dramatic with this allergy and is, I don't know. I don't know. But it feels like it was intentionally trying to kill her.

• 42:13Annie Elise?

  Yeah. Well, and to get such a light sentence, if it was attempted murder, and then for her to say she wants to apologize in person, I'd be the same way. I'd be like, hell, no. You're not coming near me.

• 42:24Speaker 05

  We're not talking anymore.

• 42:25Annie Elise?

  No, yeah. The relationship is done.

• 42:26Speaker 05

  Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, like, there's like so many lesser things that could have happened for the relationship to be over at that point.

• 42:35Annie Elise?

  Absolutely. Well, and also, like, not for nothing, but even if you were gonna try to murder her with latex, like, why do it this way? You're going to get caught when there's shreds of latex gloves everywhere. It's not gonna look like it was an accident, like,

• 42:47Speaker 05

  No, of course.

• 42:47Annie Elise?

  Maybe do a little bit of strategic thinking.

• 42:51Speaker 05

  The poisoning cases that it made me think of. There's also that Brazilian one that happened late last year, like Christmas last year, where this woman tried to kill her husband's entire family. So I guess it's a little bit different because it's not the mother-in-law, but those people really think they're gonna get away with it because they think that poison is undetectable and no one will know that they all died of arsenic poisoning. I don't know what this person was thinking, like, what she was thinking the police would think when you see a little latex, like a handmade latex blanket.

• 43:18Annie Elise?

  No. I mean, yeah, obviously, somebody put it there. It's not like, even a nut allergy, to your point, if somebody like bakes nuts in something, they're not dumping a whole canister of nuts on someone's back. Like, get a little more strategic.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Absolutely. But then the enabling of the son, too, is just...

• 43:34Annie Elise?

  Yeah, mama's boy.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  Well, that's interesting. You brought up in the Adelson case, because I didn't know much about it, but the fact that she was able to convince so many people in the family to be part of this plot.

• 43:44Annie Elise?

  Well, that's kind of where there's a lot of discussion now. I personally think Wendy is the catalyst in all of this, the ex-wife, and that she wanted to enlist all of this help. Other people are saying, and her argument is, no, my family took it upon themselves because my mom had such a hatred for him and all of this stuff where it's like, get real. I don't know. More to come.

• 44:03Speaker 05

  How are you the only one that doesn't know what's going on?

• 44:05Annie Elise?

  Exactly.

• 44:06Speaker 05

  And you're the closest to it?

• 44:07Annie Elise?

  And you're the only reason that there's any sort of friction.

• 44:09Speaker 05

  I don't really believe that. Yeah. I saw there was something about, like, the grandmother maybe wanted to be closer to the grandchildren. Was that like an excuse they were saying?

• 44:17Annie Elise?

  Yeah. And then she tried to say that she wasn't a part of it, yet when they arrested her, she was at the airport going to Vietnam with a one-way ticket, which is like a non-extradition country. And it's like, okay.

• 44:27Speaker 05

  I've never heard of anyone being caught at an airport trying to get to another country who is not guilty of something.

• 44:33Annie Elise?

  The body cam footage, you have to watch it. It is insane.

• 44:36Speaker 05

  It's of her trying to like, explain her.

• 44:38Annie Elise?

  Yeah. And then her like, being like, ow, ow, you're hurting me, like, all these. It's so bizarre.

• 44:44Speaker 05

  You're hurting me. Yeah, exactly. Everything you've done to this family. Exactly. Okay, so I have another one for you that I'm gonna read. This one is intense. Okay. I will add, it's very intense. Okay, so the title of this one is just, "I Shot My Stalker Tonight." Ooh. Stalking cases always scare me like no other, but they're the one, I mean, a lot of cases are like this. I feel like stalking cases, it's so empowering to hear the story from the people who actually lived it. Cause like so often they're not believed and stuff. So this woman took a lot of time to write out her story. So this one includes trigger warnings of stalking, threats of rape, threats of murder, and shooting in self-defense.

• 45:24Speaker 05

  It was originally posted in September, September 24th of 2014 by a now-deleted account. Okay. So she remains anonymous. But it goes, "For the past six months, I've been relentlessly stalked and have had threats against my life made from someone I dated for one month. It started with phone calls upwards of 45 to 50 a day, 50-page text messages, and him showing up outside my house at 5:00 in the morning. When I wouldn't comply or feed the negative attention, I began receiving threats, claims that he would murder me and get away with it. He said all he'd have to do is flee the country, telling me he shouldn't have to force me to be his friend or give him another chance or else.

• 46:06Speaker 05

  Every time I blocked his number from contacting me, he would then call me from a different one, try and pretend to be other people, or sometimes he would have his friends or strangers off the street try to call me. After about two months of that, I was eventually evicted from my apartment building due to my neighbors no longer feeling safe because of his looming presence. I then applied for and was granted a TPO, Temporary Restraining Order. A few days afterwards, I received a picture message of the note that the sheriff civil had left on the door of my stalker's then-residence." Also, it included a message from him taunting me. It said, quote, "What you're trying to do is stupid and a restraining order is just a piece of paper. May 31st of this year, I relocated. This did not deter my stalker.

• 46:50Speaker 05

  He vowed to find wherever I moved to and he threatened that if he couldn't find me, then he would be able to find my family. And then he proceeded to send me a map of my mother's home, whom he had never met. I received a message from a woman claiming to be my former landlord, letting me know that I owed a balance on my account and to avoid late fees, I needed to pay the amount, which I could do with the link that was provided in the message. It turns out, that was my stalker pretending to be a woman and the link turned out to be a tool used to grab the user's IP address when they clicked the link. Upon this discovery, I changed my phone number. I began to systematically dismantle any trace of an online presence that I once had. This action only seemed to anger him and before deleting the profiles outright, I

• 47:35Speaker 05

  would attempt to block him from contacting me. Each and every time I blocked one, he simply created a new one and proceeded to contact me as if nothing happened. 12 different Reddit accounts, nine different Tumblrs, 10 different Instagrams, three meetup accounts, four Facebooks, with which he changed his location to that of my hometown and proceeded to add nearly everyone from my graduating class in high school. And even, three Duolingo accounts and a MySpace. Yes, he even made a MySpace. I then received an empty package from his address to my former residence with the declaration, "Address correction requested, do not forward." I'm assuming he thought that the post office would adhere to this request and would return the package to him with my new corrected address on it.

• 48:19Speaker 05

  Mid-July, he created a profile using my photos and likeness to threaten my family and when I didn't respond, he proceeded to post semi-nude pictures of me on the profile in an attempt to blackmail me into speaking with him. I did not, and I contacted Twitter to report the account and have it removed, which eventually they did. In August of this year, I awoke around 8:00 PM to vigorous knocking and ringing of my doorbell. I looked out of my window to see who it was, and I was horrified to see my stalker there. I called the police, and of course, he just fled once again. Over seven separate police reports were filed at that point. This incident was followed by threatening emails from my stalker demanding that I meet him somewhere, or because he had found me that

• 48:59Speaker 05

  next time I would, quote, "wake up to gunshots," and that if I didn't, he would first taser me and assault me, and then use my blood for his own personal reasons. This past Sunday night, I woke up at 6:45 in the morning to the ringing and banging again. I proceeded to record him on video, and I was on the phone with the police at the time. He fled on foot once again, and I was hit with the same hoopla from law enforcement. Quote, "We can't really do much because technically, at this point, he's not doing anything wrong. Then why does he flee, I wonder?" I obtained a protection order once again, but I have no solid address for this person, which is why I'm posting here. I am in dire need of a private investigator to assist with finding his residence so that

• 49:42Speaker 05

  this person can be served. I hope you might be able to refer me to someone who might be able to assist me. I've developed insomnia, depression, anxiety, paranoia. I'm completely isolated. I'm 22 years old, and I have no social life anymore. I have zero friends. I've become a shell of my former self. I've faced eviction, and I've lost a job because of this man's behavior. I don't know how much longer I can survive. There's actually so much more that he's done to terrorize me, but for the sake of this already lengthy post, I tried to condense it. I have proof in the form of recordings, even diaries and copies of all of his threats, interactions, and attempts to communicate, and would be more than willing to email them to show that I'm not lying. So that was the original post. The original post, this person was just asking for a private investigator so she could serve this guy papers.

• 50:25Annie Elise?

  That is so scary.

• 50:27Speaker 05

  And then, there was an update. That was just two weeks from this original post. It included a photo that's now been deleted, but I have an image description. So, the image description of the photo was that it was a photo of a slightly opened door. There was a chair in front, pushed to the side, black paint covering the side of the door that has been busted in. Arrows that are most likely from a crime scene unit are stuck to the door, pointing to individual spots.

• 50:54Speaker 05

  And her update goes, "I'm writing this staring at the mess the police left for me. I'm in a bit of a fog. After six months of stalking and threats against my life, the stalker finally snapped and decided to kick my door in and make good on his promise. Out of fear, this past month, I had begun sleeping with a chair propped against my front door, just to give myself a few precious extra seconds in case of an emergency. I shuddered to think about how differently things might have turned out had I not barricaded the door. I woke around 1:15 in the morning to the sound of the door giving way after one kick, followed by the sounds of my stalker struggling to dislodge the chair while forcing his way inside. I jumped up and grabbed the gun I've been learning to do everything with,

• 51:36Speaker 05

  even shower with. I stood at the top of my stairs and I fired twice. I hit him in the chest. I've never been so afraid in my life. I don't know if he's alive, but I do know that the police have him and that is what helps me the most. For months of him evading the police, I began to question whether he was unstoppable, untraceable, like Houdini. He could just murder me and get away with it. As of now, I'm in a haze of guilt, surprise, and relief and disbelief. I shook as the canines dragged him out from his hiding place under a bush. I survived where so many people did not." And what's kind of crazy about this story is, I'm going to show you this, she actually included an article. Oh, wow. Well, yeah, like, the first thing that pops up is, "Woman shoots stalker after

• 52:19Speaker 05

  he kicks in her door. I stood up for myself." So there's actual articles reporting on this happening, and they even use quotes from her posts. So one of, one of the articles reads, "A woman shot her stalker after he kicked in her back door. She had been living in fear, showering with a gun and propping a chair up against her door for just this sort of situation. Her posts to Reddit helped make the story go viral. Police say former boyfriend Douglas Eugene Jackson, 22 years old, kicked in her door at around 1:00 a.m. last Friday. KVV UTV reports that Jackson left the scene and tried to hide in some bushes. Police dogs quickly found the stalker. He was treated for his injuries at University Medical Center of Southern Nevada. Jackson now faces charges of home invasion and aggravated

• 53:02Speaker 05

  stalking. The victim, who does not wish to be identified, has saved many threatening texts and social media posts from her stalker. She says he forced her to move, obtain a restraining order, and acquire a license to carry a concealed weapon." And what's even more wild, I just have like a little, one little more section about this, is there's actually an update on this case in 2020. So that's six years after the article was published.

• 53:26Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 53:27Speaker 05

  So the editor's note on this article is that this is six years after the original event, but it's the same guy. He did this to a different woman in 2019 while he was on parole. They refer to the original poster as the quote, "former girlfriend in Las Vegas", even though she only went on two dates with him. And the article, part of the article just reads, "A Nevada man has been sentenced to 15 years in prison after pleading guilty to stalking a female acquaintance while on parole for a similar crime that happened in Las Vegas. The county district office in Reno announced the sentence for 28-year-old Douglas Eugene Jackson on Friday. Jackson was arrested in Florence, Arizona in January and pleaded guilty to the aggravated stalking charge in July. According to prosecutors,

• 54:09Speaker 05

  an investigation by the Sparks Police Department determined that Jackson had sent numerous threatening text messages to a woman over several months in 2019. The texts included threats against the woman's dog and property. He also called the woman's family and friends in an effort to get information about her. At the time of the threats, Jackson was on parole for stalking a former girlfriend in Las Vegas. That woman ended up shooting him at her home." And there's an editor's note about how it's about the first Reddit post. According to the district attorney's office, prosecutor Travis Lucia sought a maximum sentence because of the terrifying nature of Jackson's conduct, which came after only a month on parole for the previous crime. And I read that he had been sentenced to 15 years.

• 54:50Annie Elise?

  I mean, that's great, but, and I don't know if this is like a hot take or not, but I wish that she would have shot 12 inches higher. Like, this guy is so scary.

• 55:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, at that point. I mean, he did the, his next crime, what did they say, a month after he was on parole?

• 55:09Annie Elise?

  Yeah, after he was released on parole. It's like this guy is a serial stalker and predator. And he's only, I mean, we've seen it in so many things, even true crime cases where it's like, after a while, not only is it a pattern, but you start to escalate. You get more confident. You learn how to evade certain things. It's like, this guy was clearly getting scary.

• 55:26Speaker 05

  The escalation is something that's really scary. Cause you're right, it is like, Someone who stalks, I feel like they really only do it one time.

• 55:34Annie Elise?

  No.

• 55:34Speaker 05

  There's something in your brain that latches on to people, usually strangers, or someone you've had like one interaction with.

• 55:40Annie Elise?

  And you feel entitled to them and entitled to their attention.

• 55:42Speaker 05

  And the escalation part is really, really the scariest thing, which I don't know what the sentencing for stalkers, I feel like every time I read a case about stalkers being sentenced, it's like nine months for bad behavior.

• 55:54Annie Elise?

  Literally, it's like, here, let's look back at that catfish one that we were talking about. She was, that's what she was like charged and convicted of was stalking. She's already out on parole and not only is she already out on parole, her parole is done the first of the year in 2026. And she's not on the registry, she has no one to check in with, she's just done.

• 56:12Speaker 05

  So she's allowed to just contact everyone who's involved in the case again?

• 56:15Annie Elise?

  It's crazy.

• 56:17Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 56:17Annie Elise?

  I know.

• 56:18Speaker 05

  How long was she actually, I remember her sentencing was not long at all, but she ended up being in for like a month or something like pathetic.

• 56:26Annie Elise?

  Yeah, I feel like she ended up going in for a little bit longer than a few months. I'd have to get the exact thing, I don't want to quote it, but not long enough, certainly not long enough. And there should have been, in my opinion, a lot of other things attached to that sentence.

• 56:39Speaker 05

  I think, I mean, part of it's got to be because she's a woman and also a mom. And so people think that she's not really dangerous, even though she clearly is.

• 56:48Annie Elise?

  What would have happened if her daughter committed suicide?

• 56:51Speaker 05

  Like she told her to do every single day?

• 56:52Annie Elise?

  Exactly. What would have happened? It's just kind of like the Michelle Carter case, if you're familiar with that.

• 56:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course.

• 56:57Annie Elise?

  It's like, it doesn't matter if it wasn't your intention for real to drive them to that, which I think it was for Michelle Carter, but it's like, there should be heavier repercussions for the content that you're sending, the types of messages and things you're trying to entice.

• 57:12Speaker 05

  I totally agree. I, I'm from Connecticut and we had one of the first ever cases of this thing happening on the internet. And this is the story I colloquially tell to people, so I will have to fact check the whole thing. But the reason I was never allowed to get a MySpace was because there was a case in Connecticut where this one woman's daughter was getting bullied at school. So the mom made a fake MySpace of a boy and friended the bully on MySpace and started talking to her and developed a relationship with her, a sexually explicit relationship.

• 57:40Annie Elise?

  Bully the bully.

• 57:41Speaker 05

  Online, bullied the bully, broke up, broke up with the bully as pretending to be this boy and the bully took her own life.

• 57:48Annie Elise?

  Oh.

• 57:48Speaker 05

  She really did do the thing that like the mom in the documentary was trying to get her daughter to do. And this was probably, I mean, it must have been. 2006. It was so early in internet days and social media. And so the state of Connecticut was like, listen, you can't be responsible for someone else's suicide.

• 58:07Annie Elise?

  Yes, you can.

• 58:08Speaker 05

  If you were just talking to them online.

• 58:09Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 58:09Speaker 05

  And they set the precedent that it is not your fault, which is, I mean, we see that play out in the Michelle Carter case too, that like, are you really culpable for someone else's actions? Well, yeah, if you're bullying them that hard and driving them to that place.

• 58:22Annie Elise?

  It's psychological warfare. You're like inciting them to do these horrific things. Like it's a different kind of weapon. It's a digital weapon.

• 58:30Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which I thought that was so interesting. I mean, they touch out on it in the documentary too, but like the digital munchausen of it as well, that like, I don't know, we're seeing these mental illnesses too, that are so tethered to the internet.

• 58:43Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 58:44Speaker 05

  It's scary.

• 58:45Annie Elise?

  It's very scary.

• 58:45Speaker 05

  It's really scary. I mean, the, they, obviously it's sad how little time he was put away for the first time that he committed this crime. I'm, I was almost shocked reading this, that she shooting him in self-defense didn't go to jail because you hear that story

• 59:01Annie Elise?

  Yeah, you do hear about that a lot.

• 59:02Speaker 05

  So much. Like, well, were you really, like, if he was just sending you messages, did you have to shoot him?

• 59:08Annie Elise?

  Mm hmm.

• 59:08Speaker 05

  He was coming into your house.

• 59:09Annie Elise?

  You know what? Pro tip, God forbid, if anybody listening ever ends up in this kinds of, kind of situation, but a good family friend of mine who's a cop said, whether you're being stalked, whether it's a home invasion, especially obviously here in California, what you need to do is if somebody breaks in and if you are gonna have a weapon on you to yell, I have a weapon, shoot two warning shots into the ceiling before you then ever fire.

• 59:32Speaker 05

  The 70 year old woman upstairs, I mean, he's gonna hate that.

• 59:34Annie Elise?

  I know. Because then that way they'll be like, okay, you tried to warn them. You didn't just fire. They still pursued you. I don't know what loopholes there still could be, but like, yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 05

  My husband had told me about this. Maybe you would be interested in this because he asked me if I wanted to do it. But apparently like up way far in the valley in LA, there's this house, I think it's just run by these people, but they run a simulation of home invasions.

• 1:00:00Annie Elise?

  Oh, my husband does those. They have one down here in Orange County.

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  Do they really?

• 1:00:03Annie Elise?

  Yes.

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  Where, so you're in your house and they're like, there's a weapon somewhere. In here that you would normally put it and then they have these people pretend to break in the house and you have to do what you would normally do. And if you break the law, they like stop you and they're like, actually, I know you you shot the intruder, but like you weren't allowed to do it in that situation.

• 1:00:20Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:21Speaker 05

  So yeah, my husband's like, would you want to do that? And I'm like, I don't know.

• 1:00:24Annie Elise?

  No. So my husband and my brother have been doing things like that down here where it's like, it also simulates like if somebody's trying to rob you or like carjack you and all of these things like, what are you allowed to do?

• 1:00:34Speaker 05

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:00:35Annie Elise?

  Which like, how crazy that we have to take these kinds of classes like, that is, we just go back to taking like, cooking class.

• 1:00:42Speaker 05

  I know. I remember taking self-defense in college where they're like, step out and back and you'll be able to get away. And I'm like, it feels like way more complicated.

• 1:00:49Annie Elise?

  It's way more complicated.

• 1:00:51Speaker 05

  Save me. But like, your husband likes taking those classes. Does he feel very prepared now? Or?

• 1:00:56Annie Elise?

  Yeah, but like annoyingly so. Or he like, it's just like, get off your high horse. Like, but also I'm glad that you'll protect me.

• 1:01:02Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. Maybe we'll have to do like a true crime field trip to one of those houses once and run the simulations and see like, what we do. But I, yeah, it's just, I mean, it's a crazy time. I'm so glad that this girl was so prepared.

• 1:01:14Annie Elise?

  Same.

• 1:01:14Speaker 05

  Went about it the right way.

• 1:01:16Annie Elise?

  It could have ended so differently.

• 1:01:18Speaker 05

  I know. And she's safe. And like, this guy is in jail at least for 15 years. I'm sure they will find a reason to get him out early. But

• 1:01:25Annie Elise?

  It's scary.

• 1:01:26Speaker 05

  It's really scary out there.

• 1:01:28Annie Elise?

  Speaking of scary, this one, the title is, is my landlord watching me?

• 1:01:33Speaker 05

  Already hate it.

• 1:01:33Annie Elise?

  I know. And the poster is sleepy and worried. And the original post was from March 16, 2021. Hello, I am new to Reddit, and after debating for a bit, I decided to make this account to maybe get some input of what to do. English is my second language, so I apologize for any typos. I am a 26 year old female living alone for the first time. My landlord has always felt a bit off to me. He is a man in his late 40s and has never held back from commenting about the way that I look, etc. When I moved in, he was very clear about me not touching the two fire alarms in my bedroom and in my hallway. He justified it by saying that they were directly connected with the fire department, and if I would try to do anything to them, I would cause an alarm. The alarm in my bedroom

• 1:02:18Annie Elise?

  has always made me feel weird. It makes a lot of noises, especially at night, almost sounding like a remote controlled car, and sometimes making a very muffled beeping sound. I brought it up to him once, and he said it was nothing, and if it caused more problems, I should call him. But other things kept happening, and more and more it felt like something was off, though at the same time, people kept telling me I was overthinking things and scared since it was my first time living alone. The first thing that felt off to me was as I was renovating to move in. I grabbed the wrong shade of the color I wanted for my bedroom, and it ended up looking a bit too bright on the wall I tested it on. A few days later, he snapped at me about how horrible the pink was I was using in my bedroom, and he asked if I was crazy.

• 1:03:03Annie Elise?

  I had not let him inside my place, so I was very confused, but kind of brushed it off, like maybe I had walked around in paint-covered clothing. But things got weirder after that. During January last year, I spent a day at my parents' house, and when I came back, something felt off. I couldn't pinpoint it, and no one was inside my apartment, but I realized after walking into my bedroom a second time, one of the drawers under my bed was pulled out, and I don't remember ever touching it. Again, I brushed it off, mainly because my parents told me I probably just forgot and kind of ended up feeling ashamed for ever bringing it up. Months later, during the summer, I took part in a gaming night on a friend's Discord server, and when I finally hopped off to go to bed at 4:00 a.m.,

• 1:03:46Annie Elise?

  I came into my bedroom to see my underwear drawers were open. I panicked and called my mom because she lives close by, and I wasn't sure if someone was still in the apartment. After that, I installed a door chain and got an alarm for the time I spent at home. I suspected my landlord had a second key and now probably wasn't able to get inside anymore. But that didn't cover the time when I was not home. Sometimes when I come back, furniture in my bedroom is slightly moved, but at this point, my family keeps telling me I just forgot and I moved it, and now I am too ashamed to keep bringing it up. I know I sound insane, but is it possible to have cameras installed in the fire alarms? Could I call the fire department on their non-emergency number just asking if they can take a look at it because of the weird noises? I really just want my peaceful life back.

• 1:04:32Annie Elise?

  Constantly knowing someone might have been in here in the past while I slept is really creeping me out and making me want to cry. Do you have any advice on what I should do? The next update came on March 17th, and it says: Good morning and thank you to everyone giving their input and sending messages to me. I had a call with the fire department and they told me the alarm is not connected to them in any way, shape, or form, and that it is extremely fishy that the one tinkered with is the bedroom one. I also completely forgot I do have a storage room that has an alarm that looks identical to the one in the hallway. They told me to ask my friends and family if anyone knows a bit about electricity and have them come by to take it off and take a look inside. They said it's very likely some kind of foul play happened here.

• 1:05:14Annie Elise?

  Disregarding the camera problem, there is still a fire alarm someone messed with, which they said was not okay. My mom's best friend is an electrician and I will try to reach him today to ask if he can come by ASAP. Otherwise, I know he is gonna be around on Monday, so I might have to wait a bit longer. Either way, I will keep you updated. Thank you so much for your support. The next update, which is now March 23rd of 2021, so just what, six days later. Sorry for not updating instantly. Today was very stressful. Well, as far as I know, because of my mom's friend, my smoke detector is okay right now, but there is other stuff that came up. I don't know and can't say more about what is going on. I don't know what I'm allowed to say and I would rather not risk it since there's an ongoing police investigation.

• 1:05:59Annie Elise?

  All in all, I have made choices to keep my safety insured for now. Sorry for not being able to give some of you the closure they may want to hear. Maybe one day I might be able to share the full story of what happened. Until then, to all of you, thank you so much. You helped me gain the confidence to have things looked at and to make my safety my priority. I hope things are gonna be good for all of you in these crazy times. Again, thank you. I wish you all the best. Then there was a final update on this post, posted about a year ago. And it says, "I logged into this Reddit by chance many years later and felt like I should finally give an update to this. To start this off, no, my landlord wasn't watching me. It was someone else. I did mention a police investigation that ended up being connected to this.

• 1:06:43Annie Elise?

  Since the entire thing is finally over and I had some time to heal, I will add what happened that was in relation to this. My ex was stalking me and tried breaking into my apartment one night during the time I was still actively updating the Reddit post. I was at home during that time and thankfully was able to scare him off after locking myself in the living room. This was added to an already ongoing investigation against him for something else, so I wasn't able to update this anymore." Since there was reason to suspect he might have gotten into my apartment at an earlier point while I wasn't home. Everything that happened left me not feeling safe anymore. And with the lockdown and the ongoing investigation, my mental health broke down hard. My PTSD was running overtime and I ended up having to admit myself to a clinic

• 1:07:28Annie Elise?

  for a while in 2022. I worked a lot on myself and changed things in my life. I am no longer living alone and I am in way better contact with my parents by now. I moved and I feel much better by now. I am sorry it took so long to update. The police investigation ended up making it to court and it took forever for things to be sorted out. After everything was over, I struggled very hard for a while, but with the help of my support system and therapy, I made it through that. The years were rough, but I thankfully am in a better place now. And yes, my ex did get punished for what he did and all the fire alarms got fixed too. Again, sorry this took so long to update. I don't like thinking back to that time because it left a pretty deep scar, but I hope I can give some more context to

• 1:08:12Annie Elise?

  why I wasn't able to continue updating this.

• 1:08:15Speaker 05

  I feel like I have whiplash from that one.

• 1:08:17Annie Elise?

  No, it's like you think you know where it's going and then it takes a turn and it did feel like her parents were gaslighting her.

• 1:08:22Speaker 05

  It definitely felt like the parents were like, you're being a little dramatic.

• 1:08:26Annie Elise?

  Yeah, like you moved the furniture. No, I remember moving a couch.

• 1:08:30Speaker 05

  I would remember that.

• 1:08:32Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:33Speaker 05

  I have so many thoughts. The idea of someone putting cameras inside of your fire alarms is terrifying to me.

• 1:08:39Annie Elise?

  It's so scary, but like I see all the Airbnb stories all the time.

• 1:08:43Speaker 05

  Have you ever stayed in an Airbnb that you thought had cameras?

• 1:08:45Annie Elise?

  No.

• 1:08:46Speaker 05

  There was one I was in that I'm convinced had cameras. This was probably 2017 or 2018. So it was before all the exposes about it started coming out. But we were staying, it was for my friend's birthday. We were young. We definitely were pushing it with how many people we had in the house, but we intentionally had driven a smaller amount of cars so it would look like there was only a couple of people in the Airbnb and really we were like clown carring a couple more girls in there. But I remember being in there and seeing the, I think it was the carbon monoxide things and being like, that doesn't look like a normal one. That just, something about it looks like a camera, but that would be crazy. Who would put a camera in an Airbnb? And I remember the owners of the Airbnb messaged

• 1:09:29Speaker 05

  my friend afterwards and they knew exactly how many girls were in the house. They knew exactly what we had done the whole time we were there. They knew all the rules that we had broken. And I was like, I bet it was because that really was a camera and they could just watch all the people in the house and count how many people were actually there.

• 1:09:44Annie Elise?

  It's creepy. Like, here's one thing. I have rented houses in the past, not like me as the owner, but like stayed in houses where they'll have cameras outside. Maybe there's one in the living room, which is kind of weird in itself, but it's not hidden. It's like, okay, you know that they're like, it's cameras for their property and you kind of know, maybe they'll check in. We just need to keep it clean and like, take care of it. But when somebody goes to the lengths of having a hidden camera, whether it's a nanny cam, a carbon monox, I think like, that's diabolical.

• 1:10:12Speaker 05

  Diabolical.

• 1:10:13Annie Elise?

  And here. Yeah, in the device. And here, it's like, it was her ex who was doing this, but she still had this creepy ass landlord. It was like making weird comments and stuff. So, and like, telling her not to like, mess with anything. It's like, what's happening here?

• 1:10:25Speaker 05

  And he knew the color of the paint inside too. Was he also just up to something weird, but wasn't the one installing the cameras?

• 1:10:31Annie Elise?

  I know.

• 1:10:32Speaker 05

  Ooh, that's so spooky. I just had a friend who went through a situation, it's different than this, but she was living with her roommate. And she always felt like the roommate was like, standing outside of her door.

• 1:10:44Annie Elise?

  What?

• 1:10:44Speaker 05

  She could hear the roommate's door open, the roommate walk out, but not move. And so, to the point where it just felt like she was standing outside.

• 1:10:51Annie Elise?

  Like listening in?

• 1:10:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, like she was listening. And, cause my friend would like, call her mom during the day. And she always felt like her roommate was listening in on these conversations. And then there was like, an issue where my friend had a lock on her door, and she always felt like the lock was weird. So she contacted the landlord about the lock. And the landlord was like, we didn't put a lock on your door. Like, it was the roommate who had put the lock on the door. So the roommate also had a key to the lock that was on her bedroom door. But the final straw, cause it was a situation, which I kind of feel for this poster, because even my friend was like, I think I'm crazy. I think that this person is surveilling me. Am I going into psychosis? Why am I having these thoughts? But she was in her living room, and she was sweeping, and she noticed that the Alexa had moved to a position where

• 1:11:35Speaker 05

  it was just facing the living room. Like, it could be observing people inside the living room. She went over, and she was so curious. So she looked at the settings, and it was on record.

• 1:11:44Annie Elise?

  Oh my God.

• 1:11:44Speaker 05

  And she, and it was her roommate's Alexa. So she was like, this woman is fully surveilling me.

• 1:11:48Annie Elise?

  Were they like friends or just like stranger roommates?

• 1:11:51Speaker 05

  No, my friend just needed a place to live, moved in really fast, did not know this woman.

• 1:11:54Annie Elise?

  Not that that makes it better, obviously, but that is so weird.

• 1:11:58Speaker 05

  But when it's just a stranger and you don't know their intentions and there was a lot of other stuff. I think this one was just kind of bizarre in general, but then to find out that she's actually surveilling you and figuring out what you're doing and.

• 1:12:09Annie Elise?

  It's such an invasion of privacy.

• 1:12:11Speaker 05

  It is.

• 1:12:11Annie Elise?

  And like, it makes you kind of just like feel gross when you know somebody has been watching you. I remember, I forget what the exact situation was, but when I was younger in my twenties, must've been my roommate, I thought that they were coming into my room, I think to like take clothes or like do weird stuff like that. And I didn't have a lock on my door and I put a water bottle, like when I would close my door to leave, I'd put an open water bottle on like behind it. So I would know when I would get home, I'd have to be like super careful to grab it so that if somebody opened it, it would knock over, there'd be a huge wet spot on the carpet. And like, I would know, why are you going in my room, you know?

• 1:12:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:12:45Annie Elise?

  But this is like next level.

• 1:12:46Speaker 05

  Were they going into your room?

• 1:12:47Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:49Speaker 05

  Was it people you knew? Was it friends?

• 1:12:50Annie Elise?

  Yeah, it was friends. So it's like, it's still annoying, but like.

• 1:12:53Speaker 05

  But that's.

• 1:12:54Annie Elise?

  It's safe annoying.

• 1:12:55Speaker 05

  I guess it's safe annoying, but it's still like an invasion of privacy. If it's your friend, they can just ask.

• 1:13:00Annie Elise?

  Yeah. In all fairness, when I was younger, like when I was in high school and middle school, I went in my sister's room and I would steal her clothes all the time. So maybe this is just karma.

• 1:13:09Speaker 05

  No, it is karma for the amount of times that I've just gone in my sibling's room. I'm like, what are you doing?

• 1:13:13Annie Elise?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:13:14Speaker 05

  But still.

• 1:13:15Annie Elise?

  These are wild. Thanks for sharing these with me. These are wild.

• 1:13:18Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to pick ones that felt like they could be true crime documentaries, but also told from the perspective of the people. I always find it interesting, like what were the people feeling at what points? Cause in a lot of these stories too, they start convincing themselves they're crazy.

• 1:13:33Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:33Speaker 05

  You start second guessing that like the thing is weird or that you should speak up. And she's even like, should I call the fire department?

• 1:13:40Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 1:13:40Speaker 05

  And it's like, yes, you should.

• 1:13:41Annie Elise?

  Absolutely, you should.

• 1:13:42Speaker 05

  But you're trying to talk yourself out of it. And I can identify with that because I think I sometimes will talk myself out of things or think. That it's just my anxiety kind of driving these bad feelings and you start second guessing your gut and you just really can't.

• 1:13:54Annie Elise?

  I know. I tell everyone, almost every single episode ever is you always have to trust your gut. That is literally your first line of defense is your intuition and your gut. Trust it because it's there for a reason.

• 1:14:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Annie Elise?

  It's there to protect you. Don't second guess it.

• 1:14:08Speaker 05

  I totally think that you can get a read on people very fast. Within the first couple of seconds of meeting them, you just pick up on energy. And so if you're really getting a bad vibe from someone, you are probably right.

• 1:14:18Annie Elise?

  I agree.

• 1:14:19Speaker 05

  Don't let your parents, like in this story.

• 1:14:21Annie Elise?

  I guess like you.

• 1:14:22Speaker 05

  That you are wrong.

• 1:14:23Annie Elise?

  Yeah, that you're redoing your whole apartment and.

• 1:14:25Speaker 05

  And your sleep.

• 1:14:26Annie Elise?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:14:27Speaker 05

  You're just moving all the furniture. My parents would do that too.

• 1:14:29Annie Elise?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:14:30Speaker 05

  I love them to death, but I could totally see them being like, are you sure you didn't move your couch?

• 1:14:34Annie Elise?

  You're all, yeah, I'm sure.

• 1:14:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, mom, I'm sure. But thank you so much. It's so great to get your perspective on these stories too.

• 1:14:41Annie Elise?

  Thank you.

• 1:14:41Speaker 05

  Someone who covers this all the time and we will catch you guys next time.

• 1:14:44Annie Elise?

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:14:45Speaker 05

  Bye.

• 1:14:46Annie Elise?

  Bye. All right, guys. So curious to know what you thought about all those stories. I know that they were wild. They were a little bit crazy and certainly unhinged. I mean, the mother-in-law story still freaks me out to my core. I mean, who does that? But yeah, so that's what we've got this week. I am going to be back with you first thing Monday with an all new deep dive into a case. As a reminder, if you feel like you need a lot more to binge this week or next week or any week going forward, 10 to life is officially available on a podcast. So for all of you who've been asking for a daily show, it's kind of here. We got Monday covered, Tuesday covered, Thursday covered, Fridays covered with bonuses. You can then get Patreon if you want to fill your Wednesdays.

• 1:15:27Annie Elise?

  I'm a podcaster to people, guys. You ask and I deliver. It is a daily show, just across two feeds. All right, guys. Thank you so much for joining us and thanks to everybody who came out on tour this week. It was so fun. So fun. Three stops left, Tampa, Portland, San Francisco. So grab your tickets, annieelise.com. I don't think we're going to tour next year. Sorry, spoiler alert, but we will go to Crime Con, but not tour probably. So if you want to come to one of these shows, now is the time. All right, guys, until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Just get a divorce. Just get a divorce. Don't buy a lot of baby oil and don't put anything nefarious in your frunk.

• 1:16:10Speaker 04

  Don't ever say that word either. Alright, bye.

• 1:16:25Speaker 06

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