244: Cultfluencer: The Dark Side of YouTube’s ‘Perfect’ Mom | Ruby Franke Devil in The Family

Exposing all the unheard details and unseen footage about Ruby Franke. Ruby was a well-known YouTube creator with millions of followers, who shared her life as a mom of six children and documented every single detail. It wasn’t long before the dark truth of what really went on in the Franke home when the camera wasn’t rolling, was exposed…Join our True Crime Club for access to BTS, Bonus Content, Our Private Group Chat, Giveaways and More! Shop Our True Crime Merch Follow the podcast on: IG, Facebook and TikTok For Business Inquiries: [email protected] About Annie Today’s Sponsors:Hero Bread: Go to https://hero.co and use code AE for 10% off your orderOPositiv Health: Head to https://opositiv.com/ae for 25% off your first purchaseBeam: Go to https://shopbeam.com/annieelise and use code ANNIEELISE for up to 40% offEpisode Sources: ABC NewsPeopleRolling StoneBiographyKUTV 2Law and CrimeCBS News

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 1:27Speaker 03

  What Ruby has done, it just crossed a line of abusive to just psychotic.

• 1:43Speaker 04

  Weird things started happening. Ruby said the children were demonically possessed.

• 1:51Speaker 03

  Our entire schedule revolved around YouTube. It felt more like a set than a house.

• 1:57Speaker 05

  Set her down on the flipping couch! Okay, move it! If I hear one more word, get out!

• 2:07Speaker 06

  I just had a 12-year-old boy still up here at my front door. He's got duct taped around each ankle. He's obviously covered in wounds.

• 2:19Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleep.

• 2:42Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Sleep. It's me, Annie Elise, your true crime BFF, and I am here to break down another case for you. We are going into a super big deep dive today, so I just want you all to get ready. Whatever it is you're doing, whether you have got a long commute ahead of you, you're cleaning at home, you're running errands, whatever it is, I just want to give you a little warning. You're going to be with me for a minute, all right? Bestie, we are going to be with each other for a minute because we are going to go over everything in this case. Now, I've talked about this case before. It is the Ruby Franke Jody Hildebrand case. They are the two people, alleged cult leaders. Ruby was a huge, huge YouTube star.

• 3:27Annie Elise?

  She was a family vlogger. She had millions of followers, made tons of money. They were, again, as I said, like cult leaders together, cult members, allegedly. And they were arrested and charged with horrific crimes against Ruby's children. Now, since all of this has come out, there have been quite a few updates along the way. Ruby's children have spoken out. One child wrote a book. Her husband has spoken out because the question that was on everybody's mind is like, okay, where the hell was this guy this whole time? Why did he allow this to happen? Because spoiler alert, he ended up moving out of the home and kind of just like... In my opinion, like, wrote his kids off in a sense to where he wasn't really concerned with what was happening to them behind closed doors, but I'll get into that later.

• 4:11Annie Elise?

  And there've been more updates because now there's allegations stemming from one of Ruby's children's recent books, not recent, but only book, where she's alleging what we have long suspected, that Ruby and Jody were in fact lovers together. And the reason that that piece of information is important in the context before I go into everything is because Jody was somebody who was very adamant against same-sex relationships. And in one of my very early episodes about Jody, I don't, I'm probably gonna butcher this expression, but what's that expression like, doth protest too much, or however it goes, I don't know how it goes, don't come for me later.

• 4:53Annie Elise?

  But I kind of said that in my episode, I was like, why is she so against men? Why does she have this burning hatred towards men? Is it because she has some sort of passive-aggressiveness because she is upset? Because a lot of the time she would like tell some of the men that she was counseling underneath her, what I believe is a cult, saying how they had addictions to adult material, how they weren't good men, how the wife should leave them, she always took the wife's side, which is fine, if you wanna always take the woman's side, whatever. But all of those things mixed together, I was like, something else is going on here. Like, why does she try to wedge her way in between all of these couples and always paint the man as like some deviant?

• 5:35Annie Elise?

  Come to find out, with this new kind of revelation, and it hasn't been 100% confirmed, but when I read the passages to you, I mean, it is all but confirmed. There were things in the book written about how like they would have all these candles in the rooms together, how Ruby would emerge from the bedroom all like steamy and sweaty, and, I mean, reading between the lines... It's what we all suspected, I think, for so long, and I think that it has now been validated. So that's just a little bit of the backstory, but the reason I say that is because there have been a lot of updates along the way, even though I have talked about this case before. So my most recent update episode came out probably, I don't know, maybe six or eight weeks ago, and it was just a mini bonus episode. It was right after the book was released, and I just wanted to give you guys the takeaways

• 6:18Annie Elise?

  of what came out of that book. What were the big revelations? What did we learn? And a lot of people responded to that episode, asking for the deep dive, because they either had no idea what this case was all about, or they didn't know the full context of the case, and how deep it really went, all the way stemming back to the YouTube days, why Ruby was kind of almost canceled by the public because of the content she was putting on YouTube, where she would share not only the most intimate details about her life, her family's life, her children's life, but she would also share her methods of punishment, the husband's methods of punishment, how they would treat their children, not giving them food when they wanted food, or forgot their food when they went to school, ripping

• 7:00Annie Elise?

  a door off the hinges, making a child sleep on a beanbag for months at a time. I mean, the list goes on and on. So as she was like, just putting all of this content out there for the world to see, which I'm going to play for you, a lot of those clips, the public, who was consuming this, who was following her, which she had millions of followers, remember, was kind of like, what is happening here? And it just, over time, continued to escalate, get worse and worse and worse, until then, they kind of just went off the radar. They stopped posting, they stopped uploading, and that's something we talk about in a lot of cases regarding children, in a little bit different of a sense. We always talk about when kids are going to school, okay, when they're in elementary school, or middle school, whatever it is, and they start having a lot of absences,

• 7:44Annie Elise?

  and then a lot of unexcused absences, and there's no reason as to why they're not going to school. But then they slowly get removed from school, then they're homeschooled, then they stop showing up for homeschool classes, or online courses, and then they're withdrawing from school. Then the neighbors don't see them. It's almost like you can see this pattern, and it's this blueprint, in my opinion, of abuse, where you slowly start pulling the children out of, not even the public eye, like it was for Ruby's case, but out of anyone's line of sight, because you don't want to risk or jeopardize being found out, being exposed, somebody seeing a bruise, somebody asking a question, somebody noticing that the child Doesn't quite have the light behind their eyes anymore. So you pull them away from any opportunity where you could be exposed.

• 8:29Annie Elise?

  And that is what happened with Ruby. They stopped posting, they shut the channel down, even though people were already kind of canceling her in a loose way. And then it went almost dark. That's also when the husband Kevin moved out. That's when Jody moved in with Ruby. They were bouncing back and forth between Ruby's house, Jody's house. Jody at her like mega mansion had this underground banks type cellar vault situation, where she literally killed these children captive. And I say that all alleged, do your own research. When you see what I show you, you're probably going to come to the same conclusion. But you know, I want to cover my ass here a little bit. So I'll show you and you come up to your own conclusion yourself. But anyway, sorry, this was such a long winded intro.

• 9:13Annie Elise?

  My whole point in saying all of that is that so many of you requested the deep dive for whatever reason or another. So today, what I want to do is I want to go through the entire case. Start to finish, their rise to fame, what first happened, when people noticed things, why he moved out, the cult, the allegations, the arrests, the sentencing, the book, the lesbian allegations, all of it. Because you know, I'm a fan of having things in one solid place. So you don't have to listen to 500 different episodes to piece it all together. So that's what I'm here to do. I'm here to pull it all together for you so that you can be fully caught up. And another big reason why I wanted to do this episode, in addition to the request for the deep dive, is because Hulu came out with a documentary that released on February 27th.

• 9:58Annie Elise?

  And it was about Ruby Franke and it was called The Devil in the Family. And I cover a lot of documentaries or docu-series or dramatizations. And one of the common things we always talk about is how so much information is left out. And I think that that's for a couple of reasons. I think one, it's very difficult to fit all of that information into a one hour episode. I think two, a lot of these big networks are worried of litigation and they can't really. Come on the mic as casually as I can, saying allegedly this and my opinion that, and tell you all of the things that they want to share with you, but can't because it's, you know, they want to protect themselves from litigation in a bigger sense because they're a big network. Not saying I'm welcoming litigation, I'm not. That's why I keep saying allegedly, but you get what I'm saying. So, a lot of the times when we cover cases like

• 10:43Annie Elise?

  that, I do want to jump on here and say, here's the whole story. Here's all the details. They just skimmed the surface, and that's true of the Hulu documentary as well. So, that's why we're here today. We also did that recently. I don't know if any of you guys have watched Apple Cider Vinegar on Netflix. It's the Belle Gibson story. It's very much Anna Delvey in the sense that there was like a ton of scamming going on, but she actually was an influencer who was scamming the wellness community. She faked terminal brain cancer. She came out with like a cookbook, a book, an app, all of these things, and she was exposed as a fraud. So, my, I had never heard of her. I had seen a couple of her like off-the-wall batshit crazy 60 Minutes interviews from Australia, but I had never heard of her. And so, I watched Apple Cider Vinegar, and I'm like, oh no, I need to do the deep dive. I still have so many questions. I want to know so much

• 11:28Annie Elise?

  more. But, we're here to talk about Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrand today, and everything starting back in, I believe it was 2015, starting all the way back at the beginning and where we are now. So, I apologize again for the long-winded intro. Let's dive right in. A Utah mother of six who became famous on YouTube for her tough love parenting advice, has now been formally charged with felony child abuse. In 2015, Ruby Franke and her husband Kevin Frankie decided to start a family vlog channel called Eight Passengers on YouTube. This was to showcase their life with six kids. Now, some of the children are adults now and of legal age, so I will use their names, but I'm going to use initials through the remainder of the episode for those who

• 12:13Annie Elise?

  are minors still, so that it can protect their identities and anonymity. So, their six children are Sherry, Chad, A, J, R, and E.

• 12:24Annie Elise?

  At that time, family vlogging channels were extremely popular on YouTube. And after only two years, the Frankie family channel called Eight Passengers skyrocketed to 1 million subscribers. The family's channel, run primarily by Ruby, focused on the everyday tasks of a stay-at-home mom, like cooking meals, getting kids ready for school, going on outings, vacations, and to church. The Eight Passengers channel became one of the growing number of LDS or Mormon family vlogs, which gave LDS stay-at-home moms a way to earn money while taking care of their children and running a household. Unlike some channels who kept their religion more private, the Frankies were always outspoken about their religious beliefs.

• 13:07Annie Elise?

  In the early days of their channel, they attracted a loyal following of subscribers who found their content to be relatable and to be entertaining. And at their peak, they had a following of 2.5 million subscribers. Sponsors flocked to the Eight Passengers channel as well, as you can imagine, utilizing the demographic of moms to advertise all sorts of household products. However, after the infamous ad apocalypse on YouTube, videos featuring content for children were demonetized, and sponsors like this became crucial to the financial success of family vlog channels. Now Ruby has said herself that sponsorships during this time earned their channel millions of dollars.

• 13:51Annie Elise?

  After seeing the success that could be garnered by family vlogging, all of Ruby's siblings started their own successful YouTube channels as well. Now, most YouTubers experience some level of criticism. Let's be real, I know I have. And oftentimes, viewers with genuine concerns do get labeled as haters or trolls. Now, since the beginning of the Eight Passengers channel, they have had their fair share of haters due to the type of content that Ruby and Kevin were choosing to post about their children. Ruby, who was the primary filmer and editor of the videos, included not only the fun, happy, and memorable milestones that you would think, but she also posted embarrassing moments. Punishments, medical information,

• 14:36Annie Elise?

  and details about the children's schooling. Many people thought that the Frankies were invading their children's privacy, and commenters often voiced their concerns that their whole lives being online could eventually negatively affect their mental health. There were even times when Ruby would use her children for the sponsorship portions of the videos, even going as far as making her children talk about using overnight diapers for wetting the bed after they were already in elementary school. Ruby and other channels have put intimate moments online for viewers as well, such as the girls' first time shaving their legs, bra shopping, going on dates, going to the doctor, and even being sick on the bathroom floor.

• 15:21Annie Elise?

  However, it wasn't just the amount of content that was concerning the Eight Passengers viewers. Over time, especially as some of the children were getting older, Ruby and Kevin began discussing their parenting styles and forms of punishments, more and more. There are countless examples of punishments and consequences that Ruby and Kevin came up with for the children, but some of them became more disturbing than others. For example, one of the most viral videos of Eight Passengers was when Ruby received a text message from her then-six-year-old daughter's kindergarten teacher. The teacher told Ruby that Eve had forgotten her lunch and asked if she could bring her lunch to the school, and this was Ruby's response.

• 16:05Speaker 07

  Just got a text message from teacher, and she said that I did not pack a lunch today, and can I bring a lunch over to the school? This happens quite often when you're having, raising children, because I know that her teacher is uncomfortable with her being hungry and not having a lunch, and it would ease her discomfort if I came to the school with lunch. But I responded and just said...

• 16:39Speaker 07

  was responsible for making her lunches in the morning and she actually told me she did pack a lunch. So the natural outcome is she's just going to need to be hungry. And hopefully, hopefully, nobody gives her food and nobody steps in and gives her a lunch.

• 16:55Annie Elise?

  So some people, of course, believed that this wasn't even a natural consequence and was just plain cruel. An adult who forgets their lunch at home would have the option of then going and buying a lunch, going home to get a lunch, or asking someone to bring them a lunch if they wanted. A child with no money and who has no other option but to ask their parent or their teacher for help, which, after all, is what parents are for, then that's how she responds. However, this wasn't the only instance that Ruby used food as some sort of form of punishment.

• 17:27Speaker 07

  I'm only gonna say it one more time, and then you're gonna lose the privilege to eat dinner.

• 17:32Annie Elise?

  Viewers who consistently tuned into the Eight Passengers channel started to notice a pattern. That Ruby and Kevin's oldest son Chad and the two youngest children became more or less labeled "the problem children" of the family. They seemed to always receive the harshest punishments, many of which went viral as well. In one of these videos, Ruby and Kevin sat down to talk with their viewers about a decision that they had made due to them being what they quote as "selfish and not humble." They told the children that for Christmas, instead of receiving gifts, they would be receiving the gift of truth and love.

• 18:10Speaker 07

  Because knowing people these days, I don't know if people are gonna, you know, how they're gonna respond. So Kevin and I, we have two, well, we have six children. The two youngest are showing long patterns of selfishness. They have been showing, through their choices, their unwillingness to repent, their unwillingness to feel sorrow over some pretty egregious choices that they've made. So Kevin and I have decided that we are going to give the gift of truth to them this year for Christmas. We are going to give them the

• 18:52Speaker 07

  gift of boundaries, and we're going to give them the gift of repentance. So, so we sat down with them, and we told these two what our expectations were, again.

• 19:07Speaker 07

  And we let them know how deeply sorrowful we've been because of the choices that they've been making. And how it's affected their teachers at school, it's affected their peers, it's affected

• 19:22Speaker 07

  our home, the siblings. And we just laid it out very clear and we told them that this year they are not going to be visited by Santa. So they will, and we prepped them, we, we let them know that the Christmas morning, their four older siblings will be getting Christmas presents to open. And that they will have the gift of love from their dad and I. Because we want them to really have a visceral experience that hits them. So up until now, I was really hoping that like keeping them home from school and wiping the floorboards would like really bring pain like,

• 20:08Speaker 07

  like, oh my gosh, I really want to change this behavior that I've been exhibiting. And then it didn't, it didn't, they like, it wasn't painful for them. They're like, oh yay, we get to stay home from school and clean floorboards. This is kind of fun. It's like, ah. So, you know, they've had these visceral experiences, uh, you know, and they haven't, they haven't affected them. It's because they're so numb. And so the more numb your child is, the greater experience, the big, the bigger the outcome, they need to wake them up. You're, you're not going to push a boulder with just your hands. You need some real leverage and the biggest leverage that a little child has is probably Santa Claus. And so

• 20:52Speaker 07

  I, I expressed to them that I love your soul more than anything in this world and I literally would do anything.

• 21:01Speaker 05

  To invite you into repentance. And I know parents say that I would do anything for my kid. But really, what I think most parents are saying is I would give anything to you. If I would pay any price monetarily. I don't know how many parents are actually willing to put any boundary in place that would bring a turnaround, that would really bring repentance. So that is our gift.

• 21:27Annie Elise?

  At the time, both of these children were under 10 years old. And based on footage that Ruby posted of them, they just seemed like normal kids. There were videos like this where Ruby was seen harshly scolding R for simply leaving his socks outside and being made to do pushups.

• 21:45Speaker 05

  You're gonna have to go find your shorts. Oh, did you see the socks you threw at the side of the garden? And you are not going anywhere unless you pick up your junk. You've got crap thrown all around. Now, so you see now I'm using bad language. That's how bad of a mood I'm in. You get your socks picked up and don't you leave your stuff out anymore. Right over there. Run and go pick them up and then give me 10 pushups. Put them in your pockets so you can take them down to the hamper and drop and give me 10. One. Put your hands straight out. They're in, they're not supposed to be out. Shape your hands forward. There you go.

• 22:23Speaker 05

  One, two, down further, bring your butt down.

• 22:27Annie Elise?

  Even though just these few examples seem harsh enough, really, the most extreme punishments were directed at Chad. In many videos, Chad's parents would embarrass him by reading his text messages out loud at the dinner table and making him discuss things that should have been kept private. However, it was during 2020 when Chad was sent away that people started becoming ever more concerned with Ruby and Kevin's parenting. During the time that he was away, Ruby never explained why Chad was gone. But it was discovered that they had sent him away to a controversial wilderness camp for troubled teenagers.

• 23:07Speaker 08

  Where he's going to spend the next eight to 10 weeks living in the um.

• 23:14Speaker 07

  Anasazi Desert.

• 23:15Speaker 08

  Yeah, the desert mountains of Arizona. So you're probably wondering, what did Chad do? What did, okay, let's, we're not even going to entertain that stuff, but it's, it's an accumulation of things over years, well before we ever started YouTubeing, or well before we ever got into social media.

• 23:33Annie Elise?

  These types of camps have been heavily scrutinized in recent years after people came out with horror stories of mistreatment, abuse, and even torture. But even after Chad returned home, he was still forced to sleep on a beanbag in the middle of the living room, and he had his bed and his bedroom completely taken away for seven months.

• 23:57Speaker 09

  My bedroom was taken away for seven months, and then you give it back like a couple weeks ago?

• 24:01Speaker 10

  I don't think our viewers know that. You can sleep on a beanbag.

• 24:04Speaker 09

  I've been sleeping on a beanbag since I was little. And they gave my room back like two weeks ago.

• 24:09Speaker 08

  And the things that we show and share, and the things that many of you are criticizing and calling a, are actually things that mental health professionals have counseled us to do.

• 24:22Speaker 07

  We got accused of child abuse when we sent Chad to Anasazi. Guess what? The first thing that they did was take a bed away.

• 24:32Annie Elise?

  All of these examples and more caused there to be several reports by concerned viewers to DCFS and even a petition with nearly 18,000 signatures calling for an investigation into Kevin and Ruby for the alleged harm toward their children. However, at the time, all the reports were claimed to have been unfounded. It seemed like there was an even bigger spotlight on the Frankies and on their parenting, and their videos started becoming more and more sporadic. They went from posting every day to every other day, and then just stopped being on a regular schedule altogether. After this, Ruby attempted to start a clothing company called Ruby Dew, but it ended up being largely unsuccessful.

• 25:17Annie Elise?

  By 2022, there were no new videos being posted to the Eight Passengers channel. But Ruby wasn't gone from the internet or YouTube completely. After her unsuccessful clothing line, Ruby began attending life coach and therapy sessions with a company called Connections. And then she eventually started making appearances on the business's YouTube channel, called Connections Classroom, with the founder, Jody Hildebrandt. Jody was briefly mentioned in the video where Chad discussed his wilderness camp punishment and the loss of his bed privileges, and he referred to her as his therapist.

• 25:55Speaker 11

  A phone call yesterday with my therapist, and she taught me about truth and distortion. Mom probably talks about Jody all the time.

• 26:06Speaker 07

  I've mentioned Jody a few times. She has a podcast called Connections, with an X.

• 26:11Annie Elise?

  So, why was Ruby developing a relationship with a woman who previously had her son as a client? Well, it turns out that Jody wasn't only Chad's therapist at one point, but that Ruby and Kevin sought help from her as well when they were having problems in their marriage. Fifty-four-year-old Jody Hildebrandt is a "therapist" who, like the Frankie family, is from Utah and is a member of the LDS Church. She was married for a short time in the 90s and had two children before she divorced, and she has been single ever since. In 2009, Jody was placed on a list of recommended therapists for people in the LDS Church to seek help for various issues, like marriage counseling and addiction counseling.

• 26:55Annie Elise?

  Specifically, the LDS Church views and viewing no matter how often, as an addiction that needs repentance and therapy. However, several clients who received services from Jody claimed that she would relay their personal business discussed during therapy with church officials. One of these allegations was actually proven, and her license ended up being put on probation for 18 months. So after the Eight Passengers YouTube channel videos started fizzling out, Ruby became a life coach. And listed as a certified mental fitness trainer for Jody's Connections Company. It seemed like Ruby and Jody were very like-minded individuals.

• 27:38Annie Elise?

  Because when she began appearing in videos on the channel, a lot of the messages were very reminiscent of how she already was in the past, just much more extreme. The website jodyhildebrandt.com thoroughly explains what Connections is and what it strives to do for its clients. It says that the core teachings of Connections is that for a person to achieve a true connection with another human being, they must not be in distortion. Distortion is something that Jody came up with, referring to people being addicted to something like work, shopping, games, sleep, social media, driving, receiving compliments,

• 28:18Annie Elise?

  exercise, eating, drugs, alcohol, sex, hobbies, or even their spouse, really anything. Distortion can also be living in shame and denial, knowing that you are not enough, being codependent in your relationships, living in lust, being overly sexually attracted to your spouse, and controlling and manipulating others. Literally, you could find the definition to fit almost any single situation, which my guess and my suspicion is that was her goal, because then you could tap into a client who is experiencing anything. Jody explains that everyone is in distortion to some degree, but that she can help you to overcome distortion and live in truth.

• 29:03Annie Elise?

  Jody teaches that there are three core principles which must be developed in order to truly connect with anyone and to avoid distortion. She says that boundaries need to be set to distance yourself from people in distortion so you are not drawn in with them. The three core principles of Connections are impeccable honesty, rigorous personal responsibility, and humility. She encourages clients to refer family members to join the program so that they can also experience true connection. Jody teaches that the truth and the three principles are the only way to true happiness in relationships. Members of the group develop a bond by sharing vulnerable experiences with each other

• 29:47Annie Elise?

  and validating each other's experiences. As they continue these patterns, they distance themselves from their families. Family and friends are confused about this new term distortion and a whole slew of other new terminology taught by Jody as the only and absolute way to connect. They are then encouraged to attend classes so they too can learn how to not be in distortion. If their friends or family ask questions or raise concerns about the teachings, the student often immediately makes a phone call to their Connections support group to avoid being drawn in to that distortion themselves. If the family and friends don't learn these new skills for connection,

• 30:29Annie Elise?

  they will be cut off in the relationship for being in distortion. In addition to the Connections 101 classes, members attend group or weekly meetings with Jody and other students to discuss in a more intimate setting how they were in distortion the previous week. The revenue from these group and Connections classes that Jody has made was conservatively estimated to exceed $30,000 a month. Now, the other concerning component is that Jody heavily weaves in her teachings and her truths with the teachings of the LDS Church, cough cough Lori Vallow, like how Christians capitalize pronouns referring to God. In Connections, truth is capitalized,

• 31:13Annie Elise?

  as if to signify that her truth is the same or just as important as God Himself. So the Connections truths in regards to relationship also carried over into parenthood as well. And Ruby has even blatantly stated that she loves these truths more than her own children. And she doesn't love her children unconditionally, which, let's just say, I think most of us could already tell. I love principles.

• 31:42Speaker 07

  More than my child. Yikes, that's a really, and that is the

• 31:48Annie Elise?

  Truth.

• 31:49Speaker 10

  That is the truth.

• 31:50Annie Elise?

  It's just so disturbing to hear someone literally say those words and talk about these made up truths as if they are God. Ruby and Jody would discuss all sorts of topics, but I think the ones pertaining to children and parenting disturbed people the most. If an adult wants to do culty stuff, believe whatever they want, do a bunch of nonsense, that is fine. But it's when children have ideas and toxic behavior forced on them that it becomes a bigger issue. They don't have a choice. They aren't able to just leave.

• 32:23Speaker 10

  Oh, it's true. There we are. Hi, we are live in Mapleton, Utah, at a home of somebody who is learning how to be a mental fitness trainer. And we have Ruby here. Ruby is a part of the original 10 women that are being trained to become mental fitness trainers. So Ruby, you want to tell us about what a mental fitness trainer is?

• 32:49Speaker 07

  Yes, so we are getting mentally fit, the same way your body would get physically fit by running and lifting weights and working with a personal trainer. We are getting ready to be your mental fitness trainer. We're getting truth, really easy to teach. We're making it very simple, boiling it down to principles. That's how you're going to understand truth is really knowing principles, being able to put words to it and help you, and you're going to feel so much better.

• 33:19Speaker 10

  Absolutely. So I'm just going to span over here. We've got, I can't see.

• 33:26Speaker 07

  There we go.

• 33:27Speaker 10

  Tori and Sheri, how are you feeling about what you're getting ready to go out and do, teaching truth to the world?

• 33:33Speaker 07

  Excited.

• 33:33Speaker 05

  So excited.

• 33:34Speaker 07

  Excited.

• 33:35Speaker 10

  Yeah. Coming to a town near you. And here's Kim and Jess. Hello. Becky, Liz, Michelle. And then we got Johnny over there. And Johnny. And Johnny. There's Paige. Did you get Pam? Nope, Pam's over here. There's him. Hello. Johnny is our male person who comes in and does the role play for the male. So we can practice. So he's quite talented to do the role plays with us. So we appreciate Johnny. Johnny's a man of truth as well. And he's also a mental fitness trainer. So, so glad that you're with us.

• 34:18Speaker 10

  And any of you who are interested in becoming a mental fitness trainer, we are going to open that up to train to the people. So give us a call or email us at [email protected]. And maybe you can come to the next retreat for the... Come work out with us.

• 34:39Annie Elise?

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• 35:06Speaker 12

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• 35:30Speaker 13

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• 35:43Annie Elise?

  This is Connections according to Jody.

• 35:45Speaker 14

  So let me tell you a little bit about what I've been doing. For the last 20 years, I've been trying to figure out how to help my clientele. I've been working with tens of thousands of people for 20 years. And I've been asking God about how to help heal them from this array of mental and emotional illness. Okay, and so I have been on this journey trying to understand how to use principles that are God's in helping people heal.

• 36:15Annie Elise?

  So that was a clip from the Eternal Core Conference in April of 2020. In this, Jody describes how she got to this belief system. Jody grew up as the sixth of seven children, and she described her parents as emotionally shut down and that she didn't realize that as a child, but she does now, saying, and I quote, "They were emotionally completely not available for me or for any of the other children. And so chaos went on in our house a lot, and none of us were really allowed to emote, other than to get angry." So she learned how to be really nice, kind, helpful, gracious.

• 36:49Speaker 14

  Sure enough, I ended up with an eating disorder, right? I started trying to control everything because I had no outlet to emote my emotions. I had nobody there to validate me and say, "Yeah, that makes sense that when your brother, you know, puts you into a pretzel, that that would hurt and that you would want to tell him, 'Stop, you don't like that.'" I wasn't allowed to do that. Here's the key. This is the key. Responsibility. Responsibility. I am responsible for three things. I've learned this, like I said, over the last decade plus. I am responsible for my own perception, which means my thoughts. And then when I perceive, I then feel emotions.

• 37:35Speaker 14

  And when I feel emotions, it's because of my perceptions.

• 37:40Speaker 14

  And when I perceive and then feel emotions, then I then choose to behave. And so I'm responsible for that whole process in everything, even when I'm depressed. So when I talk to people, they'll say, "Yeah, yeah, that's nice and good, but I have depression." And I'm like, "Okay, wait, stop. You missed what I just said to you." And then they'll say to me, "Are you suggesting that I'm responsible for my depression?" And I'll say, "Yes, you are."

• 38:06Speaker 14

  That's one thing, if you don't know me, I'm really blunt. Really direct. Some people hate that. Some people love that. It's like, "Tell me more."

• 38:13Annie Elise?

  The other principles to live with include characters of truth, humbleness, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability, or else you are disconnected and you manifest control, aggression, and anxiety. She goes on to say that she's learned that the only thing she can control are her thoughts, feelings, and behavioral choices, and that she cannot control anything else. And then she uses an example where she talks about a parent-child relationship.

• 38:39Speaker 14

  Oh, I wish I could control them. I wish I could get them to do what I want them to do, and you just can't. But when you try, you then disconnect from them because you go into a controlling posture. You go into a dynamic instead of a relationship with them. So people will say, "Well, if I love this person, then how do I get them to..." And I'm like, "Can you hear how you're going down control lane?" You can't get them to. Your job is to speak the truth to them about their responsibility, which is they're responsible for their own perceptions, their own feelings, and their own behavioral choices. So no more of this, "You maybe do this because of you I feel.

• 39:22Speaker 14

  If you wouldn't have done that, then I wouldn't have done this." All of that is called distortion, which means distorting the truth.

• 39:32Annie Elise?

  So by controlling others, that is distortion or distortion of truth. And then she says that each and every one of us is responsible for learning these principles for ourselves. And then if you have charge over anyone else, such as children, grandchildren, clients, etc., you have a responsibility to teach them these principles too, so that they too can be released from distortion. Okay, now this next part is actually particularly interesting because of how Jody says that God told her about distortion.

• 40:05Speaker 14

  Was teaching about shame and I, I went to God and I said, people can't understand the word shame. Do you have another word? Can you give me another word? And I heard one day, distorting the truth. And I was like, oh, brilliant, distortion. Every single one of us goes into distortion.

• 40:21Annie Elise?

  On August 30th, 2023, a man called 911 after a little boy showed up at his doorstep, hungry and thirsty. The little boy who identified himself as R said that he came from Jody. Thing else for this man and his wife to realize that R needed help and he needed it fast. So that's when they called 911.

• 40:39Speaker 06

  I just had a 12-year-old boy show up here at my front door asking for help. And he's a, said he had just came from a neighbor's house and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry and he's thirsty. And he asked us to call the police. So he's very afraid.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  Okay, and, um, is, are the neighbors out of their home or is anybody looking for them that you can see?

• 41:14Speaker 06

  Uh, no, we, our homes are far enough away, uh, I'm not sure. How did you get out of the house?

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Porch, he went out.

• 41:27Speaker 06

  He said he just left through the porch at the neighbor's house. Um, her name is Jody Hildebrandt, and she lives two doors up the street.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Out here in Tyanda, the houses are far apart.

• 41:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, out here in Tyanda, the houses are far apart. So he walked just under a block to get to our house. He rang my doorbell and asked me to call the police.

• 41:53Annie Elise?

  Now, as the police were coming into the neighborhood, they were stopped by Jody in her car, who said that she was out looking for a boy. So the police told her that they were out looking for a boy as well, that same boy. And Jody was basically like, oh, okay, I'll wait at my house. Then, once they got to Jody's neighbor's house and actually laid eyes on R, it was beyond clear that he needed help and he- He needed it quickly. They began cutting the duct tape off of his legs and they moved him into the ambulance. The smell of flesh was all that the officers could smell and the wounds far beyond what most had ever seen was all that they could see. When an officer asked R how he got those wounds, R told him that they were caused by ropes that Jody and

• 42:35Annie Elise?

  his mom Ruby had put on him. He also told the officer that they would put cayenne pepper and honey on those wounds as a dressing. And guys, some of the pictures that were taken of the children's injuries when they were at the hospital are so, so graphic that everybody's been blurring them out, even mainstream media, even 2020, everybody, because they are truly horrific. So I'm going to describe them, but I'm not going to show them because I don't think they need to be out there personally. You can see where the restraints were on the ankles and you can see the skin on the legs are completely chapped. It's raw. You can start to see muscle below it. It is like it has literally disintegrated the skin. You can see the shoulder blades sticking out

• 43:15Annie Elise?

  of R completely as though he is so malnourished and underweight. It looks like literal wings coming out of his back. That's how much they are protruding. And then there is a wrist wound where to me, it almost looks like a burn, even though I know it's not, maybe partially a rope burn, but it's like a slit, a thick, a not even a slit, a slit's the wrong word, guys, a gash on his wrist. And it's so deep that you can see muscle, you can see tissue, you can see fat. And it is like, gosh, I want to say it's like an inch wide, something like, it is so horrific. When I saw it for the first time, I'm not exaggerating, guys. I did start gagging. It is so awful. And this is what this boy had all over his

• 43:59Annie Elise?

  body when he was brave enough to run away from Jody's house. He is honestly a freaking hero in my eyes. So as R was taken to the hospital, the focus now was shifting to finding the other two sisters, which R said were still in the house. Now, you know, I'm not really sure what Jody thought was going to happen in this moment, but boy, was she acting surprised and like nothing was going on when the police arrived.

• 44:37Speaker 15

  Jody? I need you to step out.

• 44:40Speaker 10

  I have, I have my turn.

• 44:41Speaker 15

  That's great, step out of the house.

• 44:43Speaker 10

  No, I'm not gonna step out of the house.

• 44:44Speaker 15

  Step out of the house.

• 44:44Speaker 16

  Step out of the house.

• 44:45Speaker 10

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!

• 44:46Speaker 15

  We're just gonna step out.

• 44:47Speaker 10

  No, whoa, whoa, whoa!

• 44:48Speaker 15

  You're gonna be off home?

• 44:49Speaker 10

  Wait a minute, how do you come into my house?

• 44:50Speaker 16

  I'll sit right there.

• 44:51Speaker 10

  They're gonna come into my house.

• 44:54Speaker 16

  So have a seat right there.

• 44:54Speaker 10

  Do you have a search warrant?

• 44:55Speaker 16

  Have a seat right there.

• 44:56Speaker 10

  Do you have a search warrant?

• 44:57Speaker 16

  Have a seat right there. I'll explain everything after, have a seat right there.

• 45:00Speaker 10

  Do you have a search warrant, sir?

• 45:02Speaker 16

  We're searching the house.

• 45:03Speaker 10

  I can tell you what's in the house.

• 45:05Speaker 16

  Okay. Just have a seat right there for me.

• 45:09Speaker 10

  Do you have a search warrant?

• 45:10Speaker 16

  We'll explain it after this.

• 45:13Speaker 10

  You can't just come into my house without a search warrant.

• 45:15Speaker 16

  We'll explain everything after this, ma'am.

• 45:20Speaker 16

  Okay. Well, that's one of the reasons why we're here. So we'll explain after everything's done, after we clear the house and make sure everything's fine.

• 45:28Speaker 10

  But why are you coming into my house without a search warrant?

• 45:30Speaker 16

  We'll explain it after this.

• 45:31Speaker 10

  But that doesn't make sense. You come into my house and do what you want? And then you tell me you don't have a warrant?

• 45:36Speaker 16

  No, we'll explain why we did.

• 45:38Speaker 10

  But don't you have to have a warrant?

• 45:40Speaker 16

  Not at this moment, we don't.

• 45:43Speaker 16

  We're here on exigent circumstances. And I'll explain it after this.

• 45:47Annie Elise?

  So Jody told the police that Ruby was on her way back from Springville, which was where she actually lived and happened to be four hours away. She said that there was only one other child in the house. So she stood outside, on the phone with her attorney, while the police searched her house thoroughly. And it seemed like she was more concerned about her attorney missing his flight and also some Airbnb guests being freaked out than she was about what was actually happening.

• 46:12Speaker 16

  Is there anybody else in the house?

• 46:13Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 46:14Speaker 16

  Two kids?

• 46:15Speaker 10

  There's a little girl.

• 46:16Speaker 16

  Just one?

• 46:17Speaker 10

  She's right over here.

• 46:18Speaker 16

  Okay. How old is she?

• 46:22Speaker 10

  She'll be 10 next week.

• 46:23Speaker 16

  Okay.

• 46:26Speaker 16

  And she's on this side?

• 46:27Speaker 10

  Uh huh.

• 46:31Speaker 10

  I have Airbnb guests over there. Probably scared me to death. Okay.

• 46:37Speaker 10

  Adam, I know you have a flight to catch, so...

• 46:41Speaker 17

  Well, so they're, they're in your home because he lied to them about...

• 46:45Speaker 10

  Yeah, I got a police officer standing right here.

• 46:49Speaker 17

  Okay.

• 46:51Speaker 10

  So, I don't want you to miss your flight, so...

• 46:55Speaker 17

  Well, I'm not gonna miss my flight. I'm, I'm okay for a minute.

• 46:59Speaker 10

  Okay.

• 47:02Speaker 17

  Have they found her yet?

• 47:03Speaker 10

  Yeah, yeah. They think there's somebody else in the house. There's not.

• 47:11Annie Elise?

  And yes, you heard that right, guys. Apparently, there were Airbnb guests staying inside this home while all of this was going on. While R and E were being held and tortured while guests were staying in the home. I mean, it is bizarre. She also appeared to be crying during some of the search. According to R, he had two sisters in the house, but the police were only able to find one child. She was hiding inside a closet in the bathroom. Now, initially, it seemed like they thought that the child was a boy. But after talking to R while he was at the hospital, they learned that he actually had a little sister, whose name was E. And her head had been shaved. That's why there was a mistake where they thought that it was a little boy at first.

• 47:53Annie Elise?

  And R had told the police that he hadn't seen her in over a month. Now, when they approached E, E was super scared, and she would not come out of this closet. While she was in the closet, different medics and officers tried their best to support her and let her know that she was safe. They were officers. They were there to help. She requested pizza, so they brought her a personal-sized pizza and also a drink. She ate all of that, and she was still hungry. So then they ordered a large pizza, and she went on to eat two slices of that. They continued trying to get E to come out of the closet so that she could go to the hospital, to be looked at, to be treated, to see what was going on.

• 48:30Speaker 10

  You don't wanna talk? Okay. There's nothing at all you wanna talk about? It's okay, talk to me.

• 48:44Speaker 18

  Are you scared?

• 48:54Annie Elise?

  But she told them she was worried that Jody didn't want her to go to the hospital. And she also said that she was scared that they would give her vaccines and that, quote, "Vaccines kill you." But finally, nearly after six hours after that 911 call had been made, they were finally able to convince E to go to the hospital. During the time that they were trying to convince E to go to the hospital, Ruby had shown up at the house and they placed her in handcuffs. Now, what's so weird about this is she didn't seem phased at all about what was happening with her children. She seemed more like she was annoyed and irritated more than anything. So eventually, both Ruby and Jody were taken into the police station for further questioning.

• 49:36Annie Elise?

  During that, Jody tried to manipulate the police.

• 49:40Speaker 10

  I'm a psychologist. I've watched people flip things all the time. So I get it. I sit on your side. I get it. So you guys seem nice people. Yeah. I'm not saying anything. Okay, it's difficult. This is really... If you knew all the pieces, I think you'd have a lot of empathy. I'd like to just tell you, but I don't know who you are. I don't know if you're gonna flip my words. I don't know. And I'm an honest person as well, so we get along great. And he just said, "Do not say anything."

• 50:14Annie Elise?

  And Ruby, well, she completely refused to speak at all, which, yes, technically, it is her right. But she literally didn't even answer if she had children or not. She just went mute, would not speak.

• 50:27Speaker 10

  Was this your order? I'm gonna...

• 50:30Speaker 19

  It's yours if you want it. We'll save that up later.

• 50:32Speaker 10

  We also have snacks if you need anything to eat.

• 50:37Speaker 10

  So I know I introduced myself to you earlier, but my name's Detective Bates, and this is Sergeant Toddler. We're just here to talk to you about kind of a few things involving your kids. So first, are you... Do you live down here, or...

• 50:58Speaker 10

  Or do you live up north?

• 51:07Speaker 19

  Do you want to talk to me about where you live? Or how many kids you have?

• 51:17Speaker 19

  So, we just spoke with your husband. And he said you guys have six kids. Are those all together? Are those all your kids?

• 51:35Speaker 19

  I can wait all day. So, it's up to you if you want to talk to us about what's going on.

• 51:46Speaker 19

  Would you feel more comfortable talking to one of us?

• 51:50Speaker 15

  Or do you want me to step out if you want?

• 51:53Speaker 19

  Or if you feel more comfortable talking to him, I can step out?

• 51:58Speaker 15

  I'll wait tight over here.

• 52:00Speaker 19

  Okay.

• 52:02Speaker 19

  Do you want to answer that? Or you don't want to talk to us about anything?

• 52:12Speaker 15

  So, yeah, this is just your chance to tell us. We're just trying to get your side of the story. So, it's your chance to do that. But it's up to you.

• 52:24Speaker 15

  For us to talk.

• 52:28Speaker 15

  And I mean, I'm not asking any curmudgeon questions. If you don't want to talk to us, just let us know and we'll be down.

• 52:39Speaker 15

  I've already told you.

• 52:42Speaker 15

  Uh, you want a water? Okay. Yes. Easy. Thank you.

• 52:49Annie Elise?

  Once the news of the arrest spread, a lot of people were wondering how exactly we got here. Lastly, how did this overly strict, but seemingly somewhat normal mom, who despite her controversial parenting decisions, never really had any indicators that she would physically torture her kids? So, how did she allow this to happen? And how the heck did we get here? Also, how in the world did these women think that they could ever get away with this? Did Ruby's husband Kevin buy into this as well? And speaking of Kevin, you might be wondering where the hell he was when all of this was happening? And also, what his reaction was after Ruby and Jody's arrests? Well, he was interviewed. Listen to this.

• 53:31Speaker 19

  So are they all living with you or?

• 53:34Speaker 15

  No, I haven't seen them for over a year.

• 53:37Speaker 19

  Any of them?

• 53:38Speaker 15

  No, none of them.

• 53:41Speaker 19

  For a year?

• 53:42Speaker 15

  Over a year. I've been in a separation.

• 53:46Speaker 20

  From who?

• 53:48Speaker 15

  From my wife and family.

• 53:49Speaker 20

  What's your wife's name?

• 53:51Speaker 15

  Ruby.

• 53:51Speaker 20

  Ruby? When was the last time you saw Ruby?

• 53:55Speaker 15

  The last time I saw her?

• 53:59Speaker 15

  Was. The eighteenth.

• 54:06Speaker 20

  Oh.

• 54:07Speaker 15

  Of this month, we met to s- she requested. Need to sign over vehicles or the titles to the vehicles, the vehicle that she drives were all in my name.

• 54:20Speaker 20

  When's the last time you physically saw her?

• 54:27Speaker 15

  The day that I moved out, July twenty fourth of twenty twenty two.

• 54:34Speaker 20

  Twenty fourth of twenty twenty two?

• 54:37Speaker 15

  Forty July twenty fifth, when we separated, we were going on twenty two years.

• 54:44Speaker 19

  And during your marriage, how was, how was disciplining your kids? How would you discipline your kids?

• 54:55Speaker 15

  Yeah, I'm I'm not going to answer that question.

• 54:58Speaker 19

  Okay, that's fine.

• 54:59Speaker 20

  Have you been since separated or since they lived here in the city of Ivins? Um, have you communicated with your wife regarding like discipline with your kids or their care? Or their physical well being?

• 55:13Speaker 15

  No.

• 55:14Speaker 20

  So is she doing this on her own? Just tell me how your kids are?

• 55:19Speaker 15

  She's not telling me anything about it.

• 55:21Speaker 20

  This, who's this uh female Jody that your wife lived with? Do you, do you know a female named Jody?

• 55:28Speaker 15

  She is a.

• 55:32Speaker 15

  A therapist and life coach, you know, and she's.

• 55:36Speaker 20

  Do you respect her?

• 55:38Speaker 15

  Uh, do I respect her? I think she's a very honest, truthful person, yes.

• 55:43Speaker 20

  Okay. You place value on Jody?

• 55:47Speaker 15

  I don't know what that means.

• 55:49Speaker 20

  Uh, do you, do you, do you value what she says and how she treats your wife a client of hers? Is your wife a partner of hers? Is your wife a roommate with her? If your kids are living in her house is what I'm trying to say.

• 56:05Speaker 15

  Uh, I'm not aware of that, but I, I know that they've been in business for the last year filming.

• 56:14Speaker 20

  Who's they?

• 56:15Speaker 15

  Ruby and Jody.

• 56:16Speaker 20

  Ruby and Jody.

• 56:18Speaker 15

  They film podcasts and so every week a podcast goes up and I listen to it.

• 56:24Speaker 20

  So I don't recall the exact time, but sometime before eleven o'clock today. We received a, a phone call from nine one one on our dispatch. That, uh, a twelve to thirteen year old boy was knocking on doors in a neighborhood asking for food and water, that he was severely emaciated, that he had.

• 56:51Speaker 15

  Was emaciated.

• 56:52Speaker 20

  Skinny, strong, uh, malnutritioned, not enough food, not enough water to sustain life.

• 57:00Speaker 20

  So he had.

• 57:00Speaker 15

  I'm sorry, what?

• 57:01Speaker 20

  He had duct tape on his extremities, on his hands, on his ankles. And those were covering rope burns that were used to tie him down.

• 57:16Speaker 20

  Take a second and think about what I've just said.

• 57:22Speaker 20

  That's the condition of your son.

• 57:29Speaker 20

  Given that information, your son was taken to the hospital.

• 57:35Speaker 20

  A warrant has been applied and granted by the Department of Child and Family Services to remove

• 57:44Speaker 20

  from your wife's care. So no one right now is going to have access to these two children based on their physical condition. Do you understand that? I understand. Do you, would you condone that behavior?

• 58:05Speaker 20

  Would I condone that behavior? That's my job. My job is to find out your knowledge of the treatment of these, these precious children. No, again, I don't know the details or I don't understand, but as you described that, that sounds. Horrible, horrible, disgusting. No human being should be treated like that. I, yeah, okay. That's my thoughts, but again, we might be different on that.

• 58:39Speaker 20

  We're gonna like sit here for a second, okay? We're gonna go out and talk.

• 58:46Speaker 20

  I'm not saying you're, you're still not free to kill. Are you under arrest? Absolutely not. We just have lots of questions you're gonna figure out. Lots, okay? Okay, because. Your, your children are under medical care right now?

• 59:02Speaker 20

  And what does that mean? And it means that you don't have access to, my understanding is that they are, what is that?

• 59:07Speaker 19

  They're in the custody of DCFS.

• 59:09Speaker 20

  And they will be for the next seven.

• 59:11Speaker 19

  There's a medical hold on them right now, so for at least the next seventy-two hours. Based on our understanding.

• 59:21Speaker 20

  At least the next seventy-two. During observation, giving watch to make sure they're being.

• 59:24Speaker 19

  DCFS is gonna provide you that information and they can better answer your questions along those lines.

• 59:31Speaker 20

  What's going to happen to my wife? I love my wife.

• 59:36Speaker 20

  I don't know. I'm being honest with you, I don't know. Have, have any of you. I'm gonna go start it against my wife. Possibly.

• 59:50Speaker 20

  I think, given the circumstances, that's highly appropriate. But again, I didn't know your wife. I was hoping to gain some insight from you, but I don't necessarily know that that's something you wanted to.

• 1:00:06Speaker 15

  I trust her.

• 1:00:07Speaker 20

  Or what you wanted to travel down with me, so.

• 1:00:10Speaker 15

  And all without legal representation.

• 1:00:12Speaker 20

  Yeah, alright, I get it.

• 1:00:14Speaker 15

  But I love that wife, I trust that wife. And so, I mean, this feels like getting run over by a steam truck on your share with me today.

• 1:00:23Speaker 20

  Yeah, you actually tell you're caught off guard?

• 1:00:27Speaker 15

  I thought I was just coming here to pick up my kids, and for what, I don't know what or why, but. And I was finally taking it back with me, like, I want this. You realize that I have a picture of my family on my wall? And I look at it every day. Now at work, at work, every day. So I can back to my family, stick to my family. Everything you're sharing to me just sounds like a made up story, like I

• 1:01:08Speaker 15

  I have no idea what you're talking about, like. It's just, it sounds like a

• 1:01:19Annie Elise?

  After being interviewed, Kevin was never charged, but still, the question, of course, remained, was he going to sympathize with Ruby, or was he going to stick by his children?

• 1:01:33Speaker 12

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• 1:02:09Speaker 04

  So we went down to Jody's house in May of 2021. That was the first time I'd ever been there. And it blew my mind as you, I'm sure you have walked in there and gone, how does a therapist live like this? Like, it doesn't make sense to me. But we were there and she opened up and talked about, you know, her struggles and what was going on. And I gotta say, like, I'm a smart guy. I'm an engineer.

• 1:02:53Speaker 04

  I've designed and helped build some really big stuff. I'm a college professor. I can't explain some of the stuff that happened while we were there. Like crashes in the basement while we were talking upstairs. And plates like in the kitchen just flying off by themselves, like full speed smashing on the wall and falling to the floor by themselves. I can't explain it, but I saw it with my own eyes and I don't have any way to explain it

• 1:03:34Speaker 04

  other than there's some crazy shit going on. Ruby was convinced that we could intervene and help Jody. I didn't want anything to do with it. I tried to like get her bishop involved and say, hey, go to like the priesthood and the church and all that's just, go to your support network, but.

• 1:04:01Speaker 04

  Ruby continued to be like, no, we can help. Like she doesn't want the, could you imagine like what would happen to her reputation if this got out and stuff? Let's help her.

• 1:04:14Speaker 04

  So we, we went down like a couple more times between May and August. But it reached the point where in August, her bishop at the time, a guy named, who's down there in Cayanta named Scott Galbraith. He's not her bishop anymore, but I mean, he was going over there like every night and he'd be there for like four hours. And, and just, and he'd be like, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm fighting evil spirits. I'm casting demons out. I'm, there's crazy stuff going on.

• 1:04:52Speaker 04

  And finally he got to the point where he's like, I can't do this anymore. Like where there, there needs to be some sort of resolution.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  It was at that point that they said, why don't you take her up to your house? And I was like, oh, hell no. I, I don't want this in my house, but I was beaten over the head with it. Like, that's really insensitive. You know, she's done so much to help our family and, and you're, you're being selfish. And, and she has needs and, and come on, like, it won't be for long. And so I, I relented and I was like, okay. Actually, you know, this could kind of be fun. Let's just make it fun and, and we'll like, she needs a vacation, so we'll just go take drives up the canyon and then stuff like that.

• 1:05:43Speaker 04

  And it turned into just a crazy house. The moment she showed up at my house, just the weirdest crap started happening. Lights turning on and off, set sounds of people walking in walls and like sounds like footprints going up walls and across the ceiling and then like.

• 1:06:06Speaker 04

  Stuff floating around and it was just. It was weird and I hated it.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  And I became the resident exorcist. That was the title I came up with myself. I thought it was kind of funny, but it was my job to like go and give her the lessons. Whenever she started to like go into a trance and go into possession.

• 1:06:34Speaker 04

  Which started to be a lot. And Ruby would go up and check on her. It started like. Four, every four hours at night and then it moved every two hours at night, then it moved every hour at night. And then at some point Ruby said, you know what, I'm just gonna start sleeping in there.

• 1:06:54Speaker 04

  And, and if I need you, I'll come down and get you.

• 1:06:59Speaker 04

  That's kind of weird, but okay.

• 1:07:03Speaker 04

  And that was that. She's, they started sleeping in the same bed and.

• 1:07:14Speaker 04

  Then she started having like trances and stuff. I would say probably September where she believed that she was going to heaven and seeing God and Jesus and, and talking with them. And she would get together with Pam Watcher. Ruby, Pam and Jody would get together and do these interventions.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  That's what they called them. And so they'd just go up and lock themselves in a room for four or five hours and then. They'd come out and, and they'd all just be on cloud nine and, and Ruby would share with me like. She had this amazing vision. And I wrote it and recorded it all down. And we have a work to do from God and, and you're part of it and. And the bishop's part of it and we're all part of bringing all this stuff to the world.

• 1:08:13Speaker 04

  So it was um and it continued like that until I wanted to move on with life. And I would call it dragging my heels. So that was around October. And Jody flipped out because during one intervention Chad was in the backyard with a bunch of friends. And it was my job to keep all the kids contained in the basement, watching movies or playing video games. I took the dog on a walk and I thought they were done, but they weren't done. And Chad had all his high school friends over in the backyard. Jody flipped out.

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  She was ready to come back to Ivan's on her own that night and Ruby and Pam talked her into staying. But that was the first night where Ruby said, I want a separation from you. And it was an in-home separation. And so it was um.

• 1:09:20Speaker 04

  It was hard.

• 1:09:22Speaker 04

  Basically, there were all these rules now placed on me, like.

• 1:09:27Speaker 04

  I could leave when I wanted, but I couldn't come back until Ruby gave me permission. I couldn't come into the kitchen to eat until Ruby gave me permission. And the upstairs where Jody roamed was completely off limits. I couldn't go upstairs anymore in my own house.

• 1:09:45Speaker 04

  And there would be, Ruby would dictate all of the terms of how our interactions would be, when we would talk, when.

• 1:09:55Speaker 04

  Um, and that was hard. And it was during that time that I really became, I would say, dependent upon Ruby. Like if she said a kind word to me, like.

• 1:10:08Speaker 04

  My whole day was made, right?

• 1:10:12Speaker 04

  So that separation continued all the way up until

• 1:10:17Speaker 04

  the holidays, maybe, maybe the last week of December, first week of January. And then Ruby ended that, that separation.

• 1:10:27Speaker 04

  Jody went home this, like, the second week of January.

• 1:10:33Speaker 04

  But by that time, like, Ruby, Pam, and Jody were completely

• 1:10:39Speaker 04

  determined to do this work that they felt God had for them.

• 1:10:46Speaker 04

  And, um, I thought it was crazy. Like, I thought it was just batshit crazy. Like, Ruby, you have a reputation. You have a multimillion dollar business. You have a brand. And you were just giving it away. She wanted to legally, like, work with Jody's attorney to basically give Jody eight passengers. And, um, and become an employee of connections. So, basically, the contract was Ruby gives Jody everything, and Ruby gets nothing in return.

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  Our manager, um, our YouTube manager at the time was like, um, red flags, red flags. Like, I don't know how to tell you. She is scamming you. Ruby fired him.

• 1:11:41Speaker 04

  And I was like, I believe our manager. I think he's right. And Ruby started threatening me with another separation. And just like, this isn't about money. This is about doing God's work.

• 1:11:58Speaker 04

  So, we continued in that dynamic for the next six or seven months until she went on a trip with Jody and Pam down to Arizona.

• 1:12:14Speaker 04

  And I think they like, when I read her journal, that she went into Mexico or something and bought drugs or something like prescription drugs for the emergency kits. When she came back from that trip, before she even brought the bags into the house, she pulled me in and said, I want to talk with you. And that's when she asked me to leave.

• 1:12:39Speaker 04

  And that was July 20th, 2022.

• 1:12:43Annie Elise?

  But the few people in their lives who didn't support Ruby from the get-go were her oldest daughter Sheri and Ruby sisters. In fact, Sheri had been trying to get her siblings taken away well before R ever escaped. And Sheri was the reason people had even started to find out that something was going down. So she had made an Instagram story that said, quote, "Finally." And in that, there was a picture that showed a police officer holding a gun on the sidewalk outside of their Springville home. And then, over the next couple of days, she kept posting. In the first post, she said, quote, "Today has been a big day. Me and my family are so glad justice is being served. We've been trying to tell the police and CPS for years about this, and we're so glad they finally decided to step up."

• 1:13:29Annie Elise?

  Now, it was obvious that Kevin was not happy about Sheri speaking out and that the two of them had a very strained relationship. And two days after Ruby's arrest, Kevin was actually trying to get his own daughter Sheri arrested for burglary. Sheri had gone to their family house and she had taken his, Ruby's, and Chad's passports, MacBook computers, journals, and she ended up giving everything over to the police, who then gave it back to Kevin. But when he picked up the stuff from the police, he made it clear that he wanted his own daughter arrested for burglary, which just further seemed to show his support towards Ruby and not the children. She was trying to show evidence. She was trying to help her siblings. He was trying to keep it hush-hush.

• 1:14:10Annie Elise?

  And what I think is really interesting about this too is in one of the first conversations that Kevin and Ruby had after Ruby was arrested, one of the things that she asks Kevin is, "Do you think the police are going to try to talk to Sheri?" As if they knew. That Sheri would blow the lid off of this whole thing. Within a few days of the arrests, there was a shelter hearing in juvenile court regarding Ruby and Kevin's four minor children. It was a hearing to determine who the children should be placed with. And according to witnesses and reporters, during this hearing, Ruby made some extremely, extremely disturbing allegations against her son, R. Ruby accused him of inappropriately touching other children, including E., and even said that he encouraged her to touch other children as well.

• 1:14:54Annie Elise?

  She said that he disguised this behavior as a "patting game", and said that he confessed to touching 20 different people, including neighbors and various family members. She also claimed that he is addicted to porn and that he has been viewing it since the age of three. So, when this allegation came out, of course, a lot of people started wondering, you know, if this alleged touching has been going on for years and for so long, and there are so many victims, why didn't she, as the parent, get her child help or report it? You know, instead of having her friend tie the kids up in the basement and starve them and abuse them. Also, many people have pointed out that if a child is looking at explicit content from the age of three, then that is a parent issue, not a child issue.

• 1:15:39Annie Elise?

  No three-year-old knows how to search those topics, and if they happened upon them by accident at three years old, they wouldn't even have any idea what was going on. Now, other people have wondered why a three-year-old would even be left alone with any type of device long enough to be able to intentionally view that kind of content. It doesn't make any sense, especially when you consider that Ruby pretty much stuck a camera in her children's faces from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to sleep. So, when was R. supposedly able to do all of this? Others have also pointed out that Kevin and Ruby had cameras like Nest surveillance cameras all over their house for security and to also capture candid moments to then use on their channel.

• 1:16:23Annie Elise?

  So surely, if he was compulsively looking at all of this from the age of three, they would have known. Not to mention, her other children have had their doors, bedrooms, beds, and entire lives taken away for much less. Or was this yet another thing that Jody "helped" R. realize? Then, in November of 2023, Kevin filed for divorce.

• 1:16:47Annie Elise?

  Initially, Kevin's attorney Randy Kester said that Kevin refuses to sling mud and point fingers, this after the accusations that were made that he could have saved his children. His attorney spoke out on multiple news outlets to give Kevin's side of the story.

• 1:17:00Speaker 21

  That's the first question that I asked Kevin, and I know that everyone has that question about, why was he not there, why was he not involving himself in his kids' lives during that period of time? But it's become abundantly clear that both he and his entire family were being manipulated by someone who's a so-called professional in mental health and in therapy and counseling, Jodi Hildebrand. They came under her penumbra, she basically took over their lives, and ironically, this is how twisted the advice was that she was giving them, was that Kevin needed to be

• 1:17:40Speaker 21

  out of the home, away from his children, and away from his wife, separated from them, in order to save their family and save their marriage. And Kevin's a man who was desperate to save his marriage and his family. He loved his wife, he loved his children, and but took this corny advice of this therapist, and was absent from the home for 12 or 13 months, until all these horrific allegations came forward.

• 1:18:14Speaker 22

  What about before then, though? I mean, there are a lot of allegations.

• 1:18:17Speaker 21

  With regard to the previous allegations that were referred to DCFS.

• 1:18:21Speaker 22

  If he's done nothing wrong, why is the state still keeping control of the kids, right? I mean, if he did nothing wrong in any other case, the other parent would be able to take care of the kids.

• 1:18:34Speaker 21

  It's an absolutely fair question, but because of the absence, his absence, and because of the manipulation by Jodi Hildebrand upon these children, who she pretty much had under her exclusive control between she and Ruby, there has become a rift. These children have become brainwashed and actually, at this point, are being held by the state in an effort to finalize and get some expert professional help.

• 1:19:08Speaker 21

  To help them overcome this brainwashing that they have.

• 1:19:13Annie Elise?

  In mid-December, Ruby pled guilty. As a part of her plea deal, she would be required to plead guilty to four of the six counts of child abuse. She also would be required to testify against Jody and spend one to 15 years in prison for each of those four counts. A little over a week after she did plead guilty, Jody ended up taking the exact same plea deal as well. So what exactly did they plead guilty to? So according to court documents, RF was forced to do physical tasks for hours and days at a time. This included wall sits, carrying boxes full of books up and down stairs,

• 1:19:52Annie Elise?

  and working outside. Eventually, RF was forced to do outside labor without shoes and in the summer heat. He was to stand in the direct sunlight for several days. He was forced to remain outside at all hours of the day and night for extended periods of time. These actions resulted in repeated and serious sunburns with blisters and sloughing skin. RF was denied water for several of the days that he was required to remain in the summer heat too. And then he was punished when he "secretly," quote, "secretly," consumed water. He was denied sufficient food, and when given food, he was given very plain

• 1:20:36Annie Elise?

  meals such as rice and chicken, while others in the house ate regular and more flavorful meals. He was isolated from other people and denied all forms of entertainment, including books, notebooks, and electronics. And it gets worse. After he attempted to run away the first time in July, his hands and feet were regularly bound. The bindings included being tied to his mother Ruby and also to weights. Now, many times, the bindings included using two sets of handcuffs, one on his wrists and one on his ankles. At times, he would be lying on his stomach and ropes were used to tie the two sets of handcuffs together

• 1:21:21Annie Elise?

  so that his arms and lower legs were lifted off the ground, which, from my understanding, it means that he was essentially hogtied with handcuffs. It is absolutely barbaric and disgusting. The bindings also caused injuries to his wrists and his ankles where the handcuffs had cut through the skin and actually damaged the muscle tissue. These injuries were treated with homeopathic remedies and then covered with duct tape. Then, the bindings were placed on top of the duct tape. Specific instances of a abuse that was committed by Ruby herself against her son included kicking him while she was wearing boots, holding his head underwater, and cutting

• 1:22:03Annie Elise?

  off oxygen by placing her hands over his mouth and nose. The abuse began in May and it escalated throughout the summer months. Additionally, Ruby and Jody regularly sought to indoctrinate Ara and convinced him that he was evil and possessed, and also that he needed to willingly be obedient to avoid punishments. And they tried to convince him that the punishments were necessary to repent. He was also told that everything that was being done to him were acts of love. I mean, sick, sick, sick. Now for her younger child, who is going by the initials in this document, EF, in addition

• 1:22:45Annie Elise?

  to also being bound and tied, she was subjected to the same treatment as her brother with the tasks, the water, being outside, and not getting any food. She was also repeatedly told that she was evil and possessed, and that the punishments were necessary for her to be obedient and to repent. And these things were being done to her all in order to help her, again, according to Ruby and Jody. EF was convinced, too, that she was evil and that she needed to go through these things in order for her to repent. It's heartbreaking. She was forced to work outside in the heat barefoot, and she was also forced to run barefoot on dirt roads for extended periods of time.

• 1:23:28Annie Elise?

  Her feet were repeatedly injured and she was repeatedly sunburned. When examined on August 30th, when the arrests first happened, these wounds were apparent by scabs, blisters, and sloughing skin. It is so cruel, so disgusting, and guilty or not, whether she's accepting responsibility or not, it is inexcusable. It is absolutely barbaric. So when the police searched Jody's house, they collected a shit ton of evidence. First off, they took photos of everything in the house. And when you see the photos of the house, it is very, very eerie. The house barely looks lived in. It's almost like 80% of the house was just completely empty.

• 1:24:13Annie Elise?

  Now, it is a 9,000 square foot home, so it's a lot of space to fill. But still, it also makes sense now when you think of the Airbnb guests who were staying there at the same time that these kids were literally being held captive, it was a lot of space. They could have been on an entirely different side of the house. Now, some of these photos throughout the house also showed a few different wound stations. Now, what I mean by this is there were like little makeshift setups where there were these huge bowls full of cayenne pepper, honey, this like mixture that they had made, gauze, Saran Wrap, and Band-Aids. There were ropes, shackles, and duct tape all around the house, which were obviously used to tie the kids up. There were also pictures of the weights that were used to tie the kids down.

• 1:24:58Annie Elise?

  And many of the ropes and the shackles were found in what looks to be a panic room. It's an underground, concrete, garage-type basement area. And the door to gain access to it is this huge lock that almost looks like a large safe, kind of, almost like a bank safe. Like, it's this huge safe door that is literally the size of a normal door. It's crazy. And inside there, there was a small mattress, a toilet, a microwave, and a sink. Then probably worst of all was the discovery of Ruby's journal entries. Now, I went through the journal entries. It was over 60 pages, guys, and I'm not even sure she was being truthful in there about everything that she was accusing the kids of doing, because she does accuse them of doing a lot in these entries.

• 1:25:41Annie Elise?

  But she admitted to some pretty insane things throughout it. A lot of the journal was redacted for the protection of the children, but what is available and what was distributed was enough to make anybody nauseous. And I'm going to take you through just a couple of the journal entries that stuck out to me. On July 1st, she wrote, quote, "R is to stay outside, sleep outside, only come in to go to the bathroom and shower." On July 9th, the day before R's birthday, she wrote, quote, "R turns 12 tomorrow. I never envisioned him being 12 and still pooping and peeing himself. Satanic choices lead one to becoming destitute, even in the most affluent homes." Which, uh, no Ruby, usually if a child is pooping and peeing himself,

• 1:26:26Annie Elise?

  it is caused by, I don't know, maybe something you're doing like starvation, like abuse, like all of these other things. So then the next day, she writes about R not knowing that it's his birthday. And then she calls him a compulsive liar and she says, quote, "I would never have expected the cold, dead heart that R has." Then she talks about how E is better behaved with Jody, and says that she gave her a pixie haircut and adds in, quote, "All her long hair is gone, no more distracting with hair." On that same day, she admits in her journal that she told R to stand in the sun with his sun hat and that he said no, so she pushed him into the sun. When he came out of the sun, she pushed him back in with a cactus poker.

• 1:27:11Annie Elise?

  She said, quote, "When I poke his back to get in the sun, R doesn't even flinch. I poke him in the neck, he is in a trance and doesn't appear to feel anything. Jody taps him on the cheeks to wake him up." She talks about how her and Jody both pushed him into the pool and then alluded to him having the devil inside of him, and she performed some sort of weird ass ritual on him. She put her hand over his mouth and his nose and told him, quote, "The devil lies and says I am hurting you, abusing you. But R, what am I really doing?" R responded and said, "You are putting oxygen on me to help me breathe." She mentioned multiple times how he would steal food and also water.

• 1:27:52Annie Elise?

  Ruby also said that R mentioned that he wanted to go to jail and that he worshipped the devil. I thought it was interesting that she followed it up with, quote, "R doesn't actually know what jail means. He has no comprehension of what throwing your life away means," quote. Which, I mean, isn't that exactly what Ruby did? It's a little ironic, right? So she would talk to R as if he had a demon inside of him, saying things like, quote, "Give your demon friend a message for me. I will not rest. I will not stop. I will not leave. I will fight him until the day you die." She would also tease him about how she slept in a very soft bed while he slept on the hard ground. Mother of the year, right, guys? Now, at one point, E thought that she was gonna get to eat,

• 1:28:37Annie Elise?

  but then Ruby told her that she would not eat for a third day because she had, quote, "hardened her heart." Ruby wrote that E flipped out and laid on the floor all day, saying things like, "My mom starves me and calls it fasting, and my mom won't lift two fingers and bring me food because all she does is lay on the bed and eat brownies." And because she did that, Ruby said that she cut more hair off of E, and then, quote, "doused her in the dog wash." When E said that she wanted to run away, Jody told her that she had no idea what was waiting for her if she did. Then she talks about how her and Jody, or G-Jo, as she calls her throughout the journal, were planning on moving to the desert where the kids could, quote, "work."

• 1:29:20Annie Elise?

  She said that before moving, she would let E come and sit in the pantry, and she would have R sit on the patio in the shade. Then, right when they would think that they got what they wanted and they would start to relax, she would write, quote, "Pop, we will drop them like hot potatoes out in the desert." She also wrote about the day that she completely shaved E's head. E had been walking up and down the stairs with boxes, and at one point, she slipped. Ruby thought that she had fake slipped, so she put her in the dog wash. She shaved her head, and then she made her go back to carrying the boxes. When E complained that it was hot outside, Ruby told her that hell would be much hotter, so either get used to it or start changing.

• 1:30:04Annie Elise?

  She also wrote about how one night when she experienced a quote miracle. She wrote, quote, "Last night, God gave me a miracle that I absolutely will never forget. I went to bed around 12:10 a.m., E on the floor next to my bed and R on the patio outside of my sliding glass window. Oh, man, just writing this, I am shaking. If Pam hadn't volunteered to take A to American Fork for her ACT test, then I would not have been here, and my life, Jody's, and my family's would be forever different." She goes on to say how she woke up in the middle of the night and noticed that R had run away. She says she woke Jody up and they went out to go find him, jumping in their cars and, quote, "racing the sun, racing the devil to find him."

• 1:30:49Annie Elise?

  And finally, they did find him. This illustrates that he had tried to run away multiple times before finally being successful, which, I just have to say, that requires an insane amount of bravery. Then in her journal, she says, quote, "The sun started lighting the road just an hour and a half later. The devil wants me in prison. My children dead." Now, guys, if this is not a dead ringer for Lori Vallow, I don't know what is. And, truthfully, I've said it before, but I'm going to say it again, it is my belief that had R not escaped, had E not been rescued, there is no doubt in my mind that these children would not have survived. There, there really is no doubt in my mind, and I don't think that they would maybe have

• 1:31:34Annie Elise?

  ever even been found because of the vast amount of desert out there. I don't know, but it sends a chill down my spine when I think about it. Thank God, thank God he escaped. Now, after he escaped that one night, Ruby began tying ropes to him at night so that he couldn't leave. Another form of punishment that they used was taking the kids to the local cemetery to pull weeds and pick up trash. Ruby wrote that they would make them go barefoot to increase the discomfort and to also decrease the chance of them running away. She admitted that it was full of huge sagebrush, pokeys, thorns, and even broken glass, and at one point, the owner of the cemetery came and told Ruby that she was trespassing and had to get off of her land.

• 1:32:17Annie Elise?

  So then Ruby took the kids and she and Jody explained that the woman was in distortion. Because, of course, as soon as somebody's not agreeing with what you want to do, they're obviously in distortion, right? Now, at one point, R was crying because his feet were so swollen from standing. Ruby told him, quote, "When your soul is dying, no one cares about your feet." A couple of days later, when R, quote, "wasn't manipulating," and told Ruby that he wanted to change, Ruby told him, "No, that's not true. You didn't manipulate because you weren't uncomfortable." Now, reading this journal was absolutely insane because Ruby was just such a freaking hypocrite as she yelled at her kids for manipulating her, but then manipulated them.

• 1:33:02Annie Elise?

  Anything R and E did was never good enough, and Jody and Ruby would just continue to convince the kids that they sold their souls to the devil. Ruby even wrote about putting on a pair of boots and going into the room that he was locked in at one point and kicking him, saying, "You want me to help you? No. You want me to feed you? No. You want me to shower and provide for you? No." She wrote about how he would respond to the different discipline measures of cold water, cactus poking, and whipping him with towels. And then after that, she moved to whipping E and R both with a belt. There was also another detail that Ruby talked about throughout a lot of her journal entries that literally sends chills down my spine even thinking of it.

• 1:33:44Annie Elise?

  Ruby talks about her and Jody's plan to buy land in Arizona. In one entry, she says, "Jody and Jay are going on a trip to look at property in Arizona. I have some cash in the bank, so if the property is right, we can move on financing immediately. We decided that the escalation of the kids is not manageable here and now. R is now sitting, angry and defiant. E is lying on the floor. We will bring them in. R and I will clean up out in the desert as he has pooped himself." Then in another entry, Ruby talked about the land again and said, "Kids need a good kick from a horse and a cactus to run into." Can you imagine saying this about your children, about any children? It is so awful.

• 1:34:28Annie Elise?

  Now, in one of Ruby's jail calls with Kevin, she said that she had cash for the kids' schooling, not so that she could go buy land in Arizona that she could use to torture the children on. Towards the end of the journal entries, right before her arrest, she mentioned that A and Jody were in Tucson, looking at a property with 500 acres. Then she wrote that J, who had been staying back in their Springville home, seemingly by herself, went to go visit Jody for a week. When Ruby took her back to Springville, she said that her, J, A, and Pam packed up 20 boxes from the house and put them into a storage unit, and that A then gave two weeks' notice at her work. Now, guys, this was just a couple days before R fled and before the arrest happened.

• 1:35:11Annie Elise?

  So, I couldn't help but think about how if R hadn't escaped that day, they likely would have moved to Arizona, maybe even on 500 acres. And like I said earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that we would have had another Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell situation on our hands. The journal entries were essentially just one sick confession after another. Then I started thinking about Kevin freaking out about the journals that Sherri took, because remember, he freaked out and wanted to charge her with burglary when she took all of that stuff from the house? What was in those journals? Was it more confessions? Did they show a timeline of things, beginning to escalate over time? Was he worried that if the police read them, then he would be implicated and be in trouble as well? I mean, and again, in that moment, your first instinct as a parent should be your children's

• 1:35:56Annie Elise?

  well-being. So, you shouldn't be trying to charge your daughter with burglary for trying to help her siblings. You should be the one trying to help your own children, my man. Like, give me a break. Which kind of just cements my other point, because in one of Kevin's very first interviews, when he was first told that his kids had been rescued and that they had wounds that were aligned with Before even asking how the children were, he asked about Ruby. He was more concerned with his wife after hearing, literally, point-blank that his one son had run away, that he was asking for help, that he was malnourished, that he was emaciated, all of these things. And his concern was Ruby. Which, it really makes you ask the question, how much did Kevin really know was going on? Because that definitely doesn't seem in line with the statement of a parent who is in shock

• 1:36:41Annie Elise?

  and hearing those allegations for the first time. So Jody and Ruby were sentenced to their four counts of aggravated child abuse in February of 2024.

• 1:36:55Speaker 01

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• 1:37:30Speaker 23

  I would like to make a statement without any intent to change my stipulated sentence. For the past four years, I've chosen to follow counsel and guidance that has led me into a dark delusion. My distorted version of reality went largely unchecked as I would isolate from anyone who challenged me. I was led to believe that this world was an evil place, filled with cops who control, hospitals that injure, government agencies that brainwash, church leaders who lie and lust, husbands who refuse to protect, and children who need...

• 1:38:13Speaker 23

  My choice to believe and behave this paranoia culminated into criminal activity for which I stand before you today, ready to take accountability. Jody Hill Durant was never my business partner, nor was I ever employed by her. I have never received wages from her or connections. Jody was employed as my son's counselor in 2019, and in 2020, I paid her.

• 1:38:41Speaker 23

  It is important to me to demonstrate my remorse and regret without blame. I take full accountability for my choices, and it is my preference that I serve a present sentence.

• 1:38:55Speaker 23

  Thank you to the officers in Santa Clara and the Ivan City Police. Nick Hallen, Brian Paluffo, Sar Pichivit, Mark Pandoyo in Tobler, John Ward, Deloris, and Chief Flowers. You were the angels who came and saved my children. I especially want to thank Detective Jay Bate. She plucked me out of a situation I didn't know how to get out of, and the moment she handcuffed me was the moment I gained my freedom.

• 1:39:29Speaker 23

  You were not the controlling ones. I was.

• 1:39:34Speaker 23

  Thank you to the medical staff at Intermountain Hospital. Your skill, tenderness, and professionalism helped to heal my children. Jody and I inflicted the injuries, not the hospital.

• 1:39:48Speaker 23

  Thank you to DCFS, the Children's Justice Center, Judge Basil, and other key adults. You've gathered my children under your wing and offered them love, compassion, encouragement. You were not the ones who were doing the brainwashing.

• 1:40:06Speaker 23

  Thank you to my Bishop Tom Hawks and my State President Jim Nielsen.

• 1:40:13Speaker 23

  For reminding me of the Lord's love for the lost. So much pain and suffering would have been avoided had I followed and heeded your counsel. I was the one who was deceived, not you. Thank you to the Washington County Prosecutor's Office, Ryan Shum, the Legal Assistance and Discovery Clerks. Eric Clark, you exemplified to me how justice and mercy are meant to coexist. My charges are just, they offer safety to my family, accountability to the public, and they did show mercy to me. Thank you to my attorney Lamar Winward and his staff.

• 1:40:56Speaker 23

  I would not be where I am today without them. Thank you to Randy Kester for your limitless energy in healing my family. My dear friends, Pam and Roy, I am so sorry for letting you down. Because of your association with me, your innocence was called into question.

• 1:41:19Speaker 23

  My mother-in-law, father-in-law, Kevin's family, my cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and neighbors. You all saw the warning signs long before I did, and you did what you could.

• 1:41:35Speaker 23

  You wanted to help, but I pushed you away.

• 1:41:40Speaker 23

  My mother and father, I have been utterly wretched to you. You have offered me unconditional love, and for that I have offered you unconditional contempt. My siblings and their spouses, because of my decision to roll around in a pigsty, I've dragged your families through the mud in public.

• 1:42:03Speaker 23

  Yet, when I desired to return as a prodigal sister, unlike the prodigal's brother in the Bible, you seemed stuck with my parents and ran out to greet me. Your capacity to love is unprecedented.

• 1:42:18Speaker 23

  Kevin, my husband of more than twenty-three years.

• 1:42:24Speaker 23

  You are the love of my life. I'm so sorry to leave to you to finish what we both started together.

• 1:42:36Speaker 18

  The ending of our marriage is a tragedy.

• 1:42:40Speaker 18

  And living rapture on my heart. And a heart I'll never be able to undo.

• 1:42:50Speaker 18

  To my babies.

• 1:42:53Speaker 18

  My six little chicks.

• 1:42:57Speaker 18

  You were part of me.

• 1:43:00Speaker 18

  I was the mama duck who was consistently leading you to safety.

• 1:43:06Speaker 18

  I can smile. Over the past four years, I was in a deep undercurrent that led us to danger. I went into darkness knowingly. I was so desiring to. That I believed dark was light and light was wrong.

• 1:43:26Speaker 18

  I would do anything in this world for you. My willing was to sacrifice all for you was masterfully manipulated into something very ugly. I took from you all that was soft and safe and good. I took from you your mother.

• 1:43:46Speaker 18

  How terrified I must have been for you.

• 1:43:53Speaker 18

  I will never stop crying. For hurting your tender souls.

• 1:44:00Speaker 18

  You are, you're so precious to me. I'm sorry.

• 1:44:08Speaker 18

  My choice. To live in fear of the world has created a great vulnerability and a blind spot for me. Where I have broken hearts and I've caused people to suffer and I have betrayed sacred trust.

• 1:44:24Speaker 18

  Watching my community respond to my charges. With justice and mercy and grace and love. Is all that I'm witness to how wrong I've been.

• 1:44:38Speaker 18

  This world is full of really good people.

• 1:44:44Speaker 23

  I'm sorry for twisting God's word and disturbing His doctrines. I am humbled and willing to serve a prison sentence as long as it takes to continue unraveling all of the disinformation I have believed and bought, swallowed, and acted out. I'm committed to continuing my learning until all of my toxic layers are shed and I am ready to re-enter as a contributing member of our beautiful society. Thank you Judge Walton.

• 1:45:14Speaker 24

  I sincerely love these children. I desire for them to heal physically and emotionally. One of the reasons I did not go to trial is that I did not want them to emotionally relive the experience which would have been detrimental to them. My hope and prayer is that they will heal and move forward to have beautiful lives. I am willing to submit to what the state feels would be an appropriate amount of time served to make restitution.

• 1:45:49Annie Elise?

  Now, if you thought that Ruby and Jody being sentenced would have kept their names and faces out of the mainstream media for good, you are incredibly wrong because one of the more positive reasons that they have still been in the media is all due to Ruby's oldest daughter Sheri and her releasing a book. And I mentioned it at the top of this episode, but this book was like a complete tell-all. And I've actually done a summary of the book itself as mentioned, which I gotta say, she seriously blew this out of the water. And if you're into reading, you should definitely check it out, or at the very least, go check out that episode, I'll link it in the show notes. So without completely rehashing it all, I will say that the book was filled to the brim with pretty insane details and also a behind the scenes look into what was going on in the Frankie household during that time.

• 1:46:34Annie Elise?

  But one of the more significant things that Sheri alluded to was Ruby and Jody being lovers. And like I said, I think everyone already assumed that, I mean, to be fair, but the fact that she basically confirmed it was pretty insane. Now Sheri has also been very, very busy because on top of writing her book, she has also... Also been extremely active in political spaces and I cannot commend her hard work enough. Last October, she even testified in front of Utah lawmakers, arguing that there is no such thing as ethical family vlogging and that her and her siblings' trauma and lives are a perfect example of that, a perfect illustration of that.

• 1:47:12Speaker 03

  I don't come today as a daughter of a felon, nor as a victim of an abnormally abusive mother. I come today as a victim of family vlogging. My goal is not to present any idea of a solution to this problem, but to shed light on the ethical and monetary issues that come from being a child influencer. When children become stars in their family's online content, they become child influencers. It is more than just filming your family life and putting it online. It is a full-time job with employees, business credit cards, managers, and marketing strategies. The difference between family vlogging and a normal business, however, is that all the children are employees. Children from before they are born to the day they turn 18 have become the stars of family businesses on YouTube, Instagram, and other social media platforms.

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  Utah is specifically a hotspot for family content due to the LDS culture around family and the goal to share the church with the world. We also have large families, which makes family content more lucrative. Specifically, many parents film their regular family life as an online video blog called a vlog. But I want to be clear that there is never, ever, a good reason for posting your children online for money or fame. There is no such thing as a moral or ethical family vlogger. At first, family vlogging is an alluring business that can bring high revenue. For my family, it became the primary source of income, as is often the case with most full-time family bloggers. Many child influencers are paid for their work, as I was, and this money has helped me in my adult life.

• 1:48:42Speaker 03

  However, this payment was usually a bribe. For example, we'd be rewarded $100 or a shopping trip if we filmed a particularly embarrassing moment or an exciting event in our lives. Or other times, simply going on vacation was expected to be payment enough, because most kids don't get to go on regular and expensive trips. Never mind the fact that the child's labor is actually what paid for the vacation or trip. There is no law in place to guarantee that child influencers get any money from their work. If a family account does not become an LLC, parents are taxed heavily for paying their children. But parents also receive tax write-offs for the regular clothes that they wear, the money, the gas money used to drive places, and even the houses they live in. Anything that is filmed can be written off.

• 1:49:27Speaker 03

  And even after registering their business as an LLC, there is no guarantee that children will get paid. Any payment that does happen is under the table with no paper trail. And how do we determine how much a child should make from appearing in family content? What price is worth giving up your childhood? But despite any monetary payment children may receive, don't let this excuse the 24/7 labor that these children are subjected to. As a child, I was fully aware that I was an employee. The business was successful when I was happy, or when I shared my hardships with the world. Some of our most popular videos were when my eyebrow was accidentally waxed off and the whole world saw a crying teenager when I just wanted to mourn in private. Or the time I was violently ill and got the leading role in the video that day.

• 1:50:11Speaker 03

  My friends became scarce because dates were filmed and none of my friends wanted to be on camera. The camera never stops and there is no such thing as a break from filming. At the time I tell you I had a choice in what was filmed, but I've come to learn that every child influencer, in a way, suffers from Stockholm syndrome. Most child influencers would probably tell you they have full control over what is posted, but the reality is that their parents bribe and shame them into posting their most vulnerable moments. In fact, many child influencers may tell you that they enjoy their work because of the monetary perks they receive or the fun experiences that they can have. After all, what child would say no to a fun vacation or shopping spree if all they needed to do was film an embarrassing moment?

• 1:50:52Speaker 03

  But as children, we do not understand the consequences of filming our lives and posting it for the world to see. We cannot give consent to our parents to post our lives. In any other context, it is understood that children cannot give consent, but for some reason, people think family vlogging is different.

• 1:51:08Annie Elise?

  Now, the fact that it is 2025 and there are still no regulations really with family vlogging, absolutely baffles me because we see that there are regulations with child actors in Hollywood, right? I mean, you have to put a percentage of their pay, if not all of their pay, away in a separate account so that you can't just access those funds as a parent and that it goes to them. Yet, family vlogging is kind of like the Wild West because there literally can be a child who still is in your stomach that you are exploiting by vlogging about it, sharing your experience, making money off of that child before they're even born, and that child hasn't consented. They don't know that they're being broadcast to millions of people. They're not getting paid or compensated in any way for that.

• 1:51:53Annie Elise?

  Not to mention the safety aspect of this because a lot of these family vlogging channels have children who are in elementary school, middle school, even high school, and they are such public figures that they are recognized everywhere they go. And that, of course, is extremely dangerous when you take into consideration the parasocial relationships and how these people on the internet think that they know you, that they know your child, and some, in some very dangerous situations, become fixated on them. The child didn't consent to that. The child, you know, had no say in that, especially when they started doing this at such a young age and then feel almost obligated as though it's their responsibility to continue doing that so that their family can put food on the table. It's absolutely horrendous.

• 1:52:37Speaker 05

  I hope you have a lousy day at school. Don't be nice to anybody. Stay flat. Let people squish you. Bye. What are you crying at? What's your problem?

• 1:52:52Annie Elise?

  And a perfect example and illustration of that is Ruby's children. They had no say of when the cameras were on or off. They had no say of if their most intimate, private details were going to be shared, their text messages shared, them starting their periods for the first time. All of these very personal, private, and pivotal moments in their lives just shared with the public, and they had no say in that. So I have to just say, Sherry's work is just absolutely commendable, incredible, and so brave and so, like, right on the money. Like, that is what needs to happen. There needs to be regulations put in place. She's really doing the work to make sure that no other kids have to suffer the way that she and her siblings did. Sherry's crying.

• 1:53:35Speaker 07

  The good news is I did it on purpose. Well, you obviously have no taste because this is terrible. Has your mother ever ruined your life?

• 1:53:44Speaker 05

  Do you want me to do it round? Nope.

• 1:53:47Speaker 07

  She was turned on by her pet. And now she feels like she's been turned on by her own mother. And her feelings are legitimate and she has every right to be mad. I should have deliberated a little bit more with Sherri and told her, hey, this is what I'm thinking of doing a little differently. What do you think? Instead, I just assumed she would like it and I did it without consenting with her. So I owe her the biggest apology.

• 1:54:12Annie Elise?

  Now, something else that Sherri touched on in her book was her relationship with her dad, Kevin. And I think that a lot of people, when it comes to Kevin, are back and forth with him, understandably. Because he was an active participant in the, not even the early days, but in the majority of while all this first started coming to a head. And then he just kind of like backpedaled out of it, right? And allowed Ruby to have free rein. And to this day, he still has not been charged with anything. And like I said, people either agree with that or they don't.

• 1:54:44Speaker 18

  Mom, there's no presents for me.

• 1:54:48Speaker 08

  There's presents for mom. It's Mother's Day.

• 1:54:51Speaker 18

  Well, I don't like it.

• 1:54:53Speaker 08

  Well, we love mom.

• 1:54:57Annie Elise?

  Now Sherri briefly mentioned toward the end of her book that she was rebuilding her relationship with Kevin and that he was actively fighting for custody of her younger siblings who are still in the custody of the state, which I'll get into more of that shortly here. But that leads us into what exactly Kevin has been up to himself? Because it's a huge question that everybody wants to know. Now, even though after that initial arrest, it seemed almost like Kevin was still kind of brainwashed and under the spell of the connections cult type way. You could argue that. Some people don't believe it. But even though it seemed like that to some, it seems like since then, he has been able to undo a lot of that. But something I will say is when the arrest first went down, he was still all in on Ruby, all in on all of that.

• 1:55:41Annie Elise?

  Because I believe it was Sherri, and don't quote me on this, but I believe it was Sherri. It was Sherri. She went back to the house to get the hard drives, the passports, all of these things, because she didn't want anybody covering things up. She didn't want people hiding evidence. And he got so upset about that that he tried to have her arrested and charged for, it wasn't burglary or breaking and entering, maybe it was just burglary, but something to that effect where she was only doing that to try to save and protect her siblings. Yet he was siding with Ruby that he was actually going after his own daughter. So like I said, she has said that they are trying to rebuild their relationship and I don't know if that's because he was still actively brainwashed at that moment and now has slowly like began to unravel all of that. I have my own opinions, but it is something worth noting. And Sherry has forgiven him.

• 1:56:26Annie Elise?

  She is actively working on rebuilding that relationship, which I cannot imagine is an easy thing to do.

• 1:56:31Speaker 07

  What I lose sleep over is when kids start self sabotaging their own efforts. That that's the kind of stuff that really concerns me.

• 1:56:41Speaker 08

  Just to stick it to their teachers or to stick it to their parents or family that.

• 1:56:45Speaker 07

  And the only person they're really hurting is themselves.

• 1:56:48Speaker 08

  Yeah, that's the kind of behavior that we're hoping this program can help Chad correct. And so.

• 1:56:55Speaker 07

  We're not thinking that anyone's going to be like fixed or corrected, but like.

• 1:56:59Speaker 08

  Reveal it to him.

• 1:57:00Speaker 07

  We, yeah, that that's a good way to say it.

• 1:57:03Speaker 08

  Yeah, because no one can fix anybody. A person has to choose if they're going to make changes in their lives. And so I think this experience will reveal Chad and everyone else who's out there to themselves. And they can learn to better themselves or just stay in the mud.

• 1:57:23Annie Elise?

  Yeah, like I mentioned a bit ago, Kevin has been part of an ongoing court battle and this whole court process has been kept out of the public, which I have to say is probably a good thing. I'm just hoping that one day these poor kids can live a seemingly normal life and that Kevin has truly healed and that he's ready to, you know, be a dad and take on the trauma and the PTSD that those kids no doubt have. And speaking of the kids, we have received a small update about how they're doing and their condition. And I've got to say, I am very happy with this update because it goes to their overall health. Since they're all still minors, roughly between ages 11 and 17, I'm not going to say their names and a lot of the information has been kept.

• 1:58:03Annie Elise?

  Private. However, the lead prosecutor over the case updated last year that R and E are doing a lot better, stating, quote, "I think people should know that the kids have put on weight. They're interacting, happy and healthy. It's not like they're great, but they are light years better. And thank heavens for that." I don't even know how long it will take to undo all of that trauma that they have been through, but the fact that they are what he is saying, light years ahead, that is just absolutely amazing. And I don't think there's anything better that any of us could hope for. Now, in late January of 2025, Jody was back in court, this time because somebody filed a lawsuit against her. And this lawsuit comes from a former client of Jody's

• 1:58:46Annie Elise?

  named Michael Tillman. Michael is suing both Jody and Ruby, actually, for racketeering and fraud because of their whole business with connections, cult connections. And the whole lawsuit is claiming that despite being behind bars, Jody and Ruby, Connections is still thriving. Not only are they continuing to do business with existing members, but they're actually actively recruiting new members, as alarming as that is. And more than that, this lawsuit also alleges that they believe that current existing members, regardless how long they've been within Connections, are physically harming children, just like Ruby and Jody had done as well. Basically saying, "The activity and the core issues here, it's still going on. They're not stopping. Jody still

• 1:59:30Annie Elise?

  believes all of this. She's still actively recruiting people and they're continuing to push this just insane message that this is the way you should parent and that this is the way you should treat your children, punish your children." It's just, if that still is going on, and if people have not seen the light yet about Connections, heaven help you. I don't know what else to tell you. So if all of that is true, this could be huge.

• 1:59:52Speaker 05

  Hello and welcome to Connections. We're so glad you're with us. When I first started getting to know you, she's like, anger is my favorite emotion. I'm like,

• 2:00:02Annie Elise?

  I don't know what I'm dealing with here. Now, Michael's involvement with Jody, Ruby, and Connections all began in 2015 because he and his wife had started going to Jody for marriage counseling. And he essentially says that Jody and her, you know, wacko teachings created this huge rift in his marriage, which ultimately resulted in their divorce and a very nastedy custody battle of their daughter. And that's kind of Jody's MO, right? I talked about it a little bit at the beginning of this episode, but she liked to fracture marriages and relationships and always paint the man as the bad guy and work her way in, like weasel her way in. And that is what Michael is alleging here. That's exactly what she did, apparently. Now, what I will say is Michael's ex-wife and representatives for both Jody and Ruby

• 2:00:47Annie Elise?

  have declined to comment on this. But I, for one, am extremely curious to see where this lawsuit goes and what other information we may learn from it. And I especially want to know if Connections is still active because I feel like that is such a huge concern for public safety, for children's safety. So I hope it's shut down. If it's not, or I hope somebody does shut it down because clearly it has a track record of being reckless and very dangerous. Now, I know that this was a big episode, okay? And I appreciate you for sticking with me. But again, I just felt like there was so much to cover. And I'm sure we'll be back here in another six months with more updates, maybe another deep dive, I'm not sure. But I wanted to at least give you all of the information on this case, especially if

• 2:01:32Annie Elise?

  you're new to the case, or maybe you just watched the documentary and you wanted to learn more. I just really wanted it to be in one spot. So I hope you found it helpful. Other than that, guys, thank you so much for tuning in today. I will be back on the mic with you on Thursday with headline highlights where we talk everything every Thursday about what's breaking in the true crime world, new cases, old cases, existing cases, everything true crime related every Thursday. So thank you guys so much for being here. If you want to make sure you don't miss any future episodes or bonus episodes that we drop, take a quick second, whatever podcast app you're listening on, just follow the show. It's totally free, but that way it'll be like in your podcast queue on your phone so that you don't miss these. All right, thank you guys again.

• 2:02:13Annie Elise?

  And until the next one, please do not join any cults, do not kill people, be a good person. And stay the heck away from connections. Honestly, that's like the best advice I could give. All right, guys. Thanks so much, and I will talk with you soon. Bye.