Pod Insights Serial Killers & Murderous Minds The Smiley Face Killers with Dr. Tristin Engels | Crime House Crossover | From Conspiracy Theories, Cults, and Crimes About this episode Dr. Engels joins Vanessa in this episode of Conspiracy Theories, Cults, and Crimes for a Crime House crossover!
Dozens of young men, all found drowned. A single eerie clue near every crime scene: a painted smiley face.
Uncover the dark origins of the Smiley Face Killers theory — a decades-long investigation that suggests a nationwide ring of serial murderers might still be active.
Follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults, and Crimes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: https://play.megaphone.fm/wm1aoandqx-axn1ncatcaq
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Vanessa Richardson? Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.
0:32 Tristin Engels? Happy holidays. It's Dr. Engels, and I'm excited to tell you that I joined Vanessa on her other show, Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes, for a Crime House crossover to dive into the smiley face murder theory. Dozens of young men all found drowned. A single eerie clue near every crime scene: a painted smiley face. In this episode, we uncover the dark origins of the smiley face killer's theory, a decades-long investigation that suggests a nationwide ring of serial murderers might still be active. As a little gift from me to you, I have that episode for you to listen to right here. If you like what you hear, be sure to follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes on Apple Podcasts,
1:17 Tristin Engels? Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Now, here's the episode.
1:29 Speaker 02 This is Crime House.
1:35 Vanessa Richardson? On New Year's Eve, 1999, a 21-year-old college student named Brian Welzian left his apartment to celebrate with friends in downtown Chicago. Three months later, his body washed up on the shores of Lake Michigan in Gary, Indiana, about 30 miles away. Investigators assumed Brian had gotten drunk, fallen into the lake, and drowned. But his body showed minimal signs of decomposition. Strange, considering the police believed he'd been floating in the water for three months. In 2008, former New York City detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte came forward with a theory about what really happened to Brian.
2:17 Vanessa Richardson? They noticed his case was eerily similar to dozens of other young, athletic white men across America who had all mysteriously drowned. According to Gannon and Duarte, none of these deaths were accidental. They were coordinated attacks by a cabal of murderers with a unique calling card: a graffiti smiley face.
2:52 Vanessa Richardson? From UFO cults and mass suicides to secret CIA experiments, presidential assassinations, and murderous doctors, these aren't just theories. They're real stories that blur the line between fact and fiction. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes, a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Every Wednesday, I'll explore the real people at the center of the world's most shocking events and nefarious organizations. These cases are wild, and I want to hear what you think. At the end of each episode, leave a comment wherever you listen. Follow Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes and subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts for ad-free, early access.
3:37 Vanessa Richardson? And if you can't get enough true crime, go search and follow Crime House Daily, our team's twice-a-day show bringing you breaking cases, updates, and unbelievable stories from the world of crime that are happening right now. Today, I'm looking into a conspiracy theory called the "Smiley Face Killers." And I have a special surprise guest joining me. You might know her from our other Crime House show, Killer Minds. She's a licensed clinical forensic psychologist and my friend, Dr. Tristin Engels. And she's the perfect person to shed light on today's topic. Dr. Engels, I'm so happy to have you here. Have you ever heard of this conspiracy theory?
4:16 Tristin Engels? Well, being from the Midwest myself, I've definitely heard of it. It was talked about a lot in Chicago, but admittedly, I haven't done a deep dive before, so I cannot wait to dig in.
4:26 Vanessa Richardson? Ooh, I cannot wait to hear. And the smiley face killer theories, not new. It was first coined by retired NYPD detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte in 2006. They alleged that from the late 90s through the 2010s, a gang of serial killers targeted and killed at least 45 college-aged men. The supposed victims all fit a similar profile. Nearly all of them were white, athletic, and had bright futures ahead of them. They all disappeared after drinking with friends, only for their bodies to be discovered in bodies of water. And, most interestingly, a large portion of the bodies were found
5:07 Vanessa Richardson? near a very specific piece of graffiti: a smiley face. To this day, we're wondering, was it a clue, or a coincidence? All that and more, coming up.
5:31 Vanessa Richardson? On February 16, 1997, Patrick McNeil went out to the Dapper Dog Bar in Manhattan. He needed to blow off a little steam, have a few drinks. Patrick was 20 years old, strong and athletic. In high school, he was the captain of his football team, but now, he wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life. He was in his second year studying accounting at Fordham University in New York City. Lately, though, he'd been considering a career in law enforcement. That said, he was a bit of a rebel. He'd recently gotten a tongue piercing and used his fake ID to get into bars. At the Dapper Dog, Patrick had some beers. But according to friends, he seemed unusually disoriented, almost like he was on some kind of narcotics.
6:16 Vanessa Richardson? But Patrick didn't do drugs, as far as anyone knew. And before long, Patrick was found on the bathroom floor, unable to stop throwing up. People offered to help him get home, but he started stumbling back to his apartment on his own. However, witnesses reported seeing a car following close behind him, stopping whenever he stopped. Then eventually, Patrick turned a corner, the car followed, and no one ever saw him again. That's when Detective Kevin Gannon entered the picture. Kevin wasn't just any cop. He was something of a legend within the NYPD. He'd received over two Medals of Valor for bravery and had over 1,000 felony arrests under his belt.
7:01 Vanessa Richardson? Kevin had been working on the force for almost two decades, and he liked to think the system worked the way it was supposed to. He believed his job was to help people find justice, no matter the cost. Until he was assigned Patrick's case.
7:18 Vanessa Richardson? After Patrick's disappearance, Kevin started collecting evidence. He didn't have much to go on except for what people told him about the car that had followed Patrick. Bystanders claimed a man and a woman were in the vehicle. Luckily, one witness was able to provide Kevin with a partial license plate number. Kevin requested a search from the NYPD, but doing so without a full plate number was more complicated and therefore more expensive. It would have cost the department about $1,200. Today, that's around $2,500. To Kevin's disbelief, his superiors denied the request because of the price. Suddenly, the trail had gone cold, and Kevin couldn't do anything about it.
8:01 Vanessa Richardson? And that wasn't the only bad news Kevin received. Two months after he disappeared in April of 1997, Patrick's body washed up on the banks of the East River. He was found near a pier in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, about 12 miles from where he was last seen. After he was found, authorities were quick to label the death an accidental drowning, but Kevin wasn't convinced.
8:27 Vanessa Richardson? The autopsy showed soft tissue breakdown and bloating, which is typical in cases of prolonged water exposure. And his lungs were reportedly filled with fluid, a key marker of drowning. But there were also a number of strange discrepancies, all of which indicated that Patrick might have died before he went into the water. For starters, Patrick was only found in his jeans, underwear, and socks. It's highly unlikely he took off his shirt and jacket before falling into the water, especially in the middle of winter. It also didn't make sense for Patrick's body to appear where it did. In Kevin's estimation, the only way he would have shown up at that pier was if his body had been dumped there. According to the medical examiner,
9:12 Vanessa Richardson? Patrick's body showed no signs of injuries, assault, or defensive wounds. But this didn't make sense to Kevin. There were marks on his neck, suggesting he had been bound, and charring on his head and back, showing he may have been burned. But the smoking gun was his blood alcohol level, which the coroner was able to estimate by testing Patrick's remaining biological fluids. According to those, his BAC was .12 when he died. Definitely enough for him to be drunk, but not as intoxicated as he reportedly was. In Kevin's eyes, the evidence told a clear story. He strongly believed that Patrick's death wasn't accidental.
9:55 Vanessa Richardson? He had been drugged, abducted, tied up, and murdered before being dumped in the East River. When Kevin went to his superiors with this theory, they took him off the case and barred him from investigating further. It was obvious to Kevin that they weren't interested in the truth. But he couldn't seem to stay away, and before long he came across more information that seemed to suggest Patrick had been a victim of foul play. On New Year's Eve, 1997, a month and a half before Patrick went missing, 22-year-old Lawrence Andrews Jr. disappeared after a night of drinking in New York City.
10:35 Vanessa Richardson? His body was recovered from the East River 43 days later, near the same spot as Patrick's. Five months after that, 19-year-old Joshua Bender went missing from his college campus in the city before being found on the banks of the same river. Like Patrick, both men disappeared under suspicious circumstances, and their bodies showed possible signs of foul play. But when Kevin brought this up to his bosses, they shut him down. Like Patrick, their deaths were ruled as drownings, and that was final. And so Kevin tried to move on with his life. Kevin went back to work. Then in 1999, he became the head of the Bronx Homicide Task Force.
11:20 Vanessa Richardson? After 20 years of service, he retired from the NYPD in 2001. In 2003, Kevin was diagnosed with cancer. But he wasn't one to back down from a fight. After a year and a half, his cancer was in remission. Kevin had a new lease on life, and he knew exactly where he wanted to start. Even though he'd been retired for a couple of years, Kevin had never forgotten about Patrick. He kept turning one question over and over in his head. How many other cases like Patrick's were there? Not just in New York, but all over the country. Kevin started researching online. And in 2005, he learned something that sent a chill down his spine.
12:04 Vanessa Richardson? Over the past few years, at least 25 young men disappeared across the Midwest under mysterious circumstances, only for them to turn up in bodies of water many miles away. All of them were supposedly accidental drownings. But after Patrick's case, Kevin wasn't so sure. He wanted to find out what really happened.
12:28 Tristin Engels? It's actually not uncommon for investigators to struggle to let go of cases that never sat right with them, especially ones they felt they couldn't fully pursue because of bureaucratic red tape or resource limits, which sadly happens often. And that's not unique to law enforcement. It happens in many professions, mine included. When you dedicate your life to helping people, unfinished work can stay with you. In Kevin's case, his renewed interest seems driven by interest, but also post-traumatic purpose. He survived cancer, and now, in his retirement, it seems like he's searching for meaning, channeling that energy into justice for others. It also feels like both a continuation of his identity and a redefinition of it.
13:11 Tristin Engels? For someone who's spent a career investigating truth, finding closure becomes its own form of healing. And in some cases, retired detectives struggle with taking off their investigative hats. The instinct to look for patterns, to ask questions, to find answers, it doesn't just shut off when the badge comes off. So for many, that mindset becomes part of their identity, and without an active case to focus on, that need to solve things can turn inward, or, as in Kevin's case, find new life in an old case that continued to haunt him.
13:43 Vanessa Richardson? What would the strengths and weaknesses be of an unofficial investigation like this one for Kevin?
13:49 Tristin Engels? Benefits are tremendous. A lot of cold cases get resolved because of retired investigators volunteering their time. Most law enforcement agencies are understaffed or underfunded and cannot dedicate their time to investigate cold cases as new cases pile up. So because of individuals like Kevin, even if it's unofficial, families sometimes can get the closure they've been waiting for, and long-forgotten victims get another chance at justice. It's that persistence that keeps some of these cases alive when institutional systems can't. And yes, there are certainly risks. When someone becomes emotionally attached to a case, particularly one that was never solved, it can expose them to secondary trauma and,
14:30 Tristin Engels? in this case, heightened confirmation bias. So in other words, Kevin may start to look for patterns that validate his suspicions, sometimes at the expense of alternative explanations, only to confirm his beliefs. So while Kevin's persistence speaks to his empathy and his sense of duty, it also illustrates a tension we often see in investigative psychology, which is the line between dedication and fixation. His determination to find connections might reveal as much about his own need for resolution as it does about the crimes themselves.
15:06 Vanessa Richardson? Clearly, Kevin was passionate about this investigation. But this time around, he knew he'd need some help. Kevin called up his friend and fellow retired NYPD detective, Anthony Duarte, to ask if he was interested in teaming up. Kevin and Anthony had met at the police academy and were both highly decorated officers. Anthony knew all about Patrick's case and shared Kevin's frustration. So when he heard about these other drownings, he was eager to get involved. In April 2006, the two retired detectives reviewed the case files, and they realized many of the men who'd gone missing in Minnesota and Wisconsin had a lot of similarities to the victims in New York. Most were athletic, young, white men
15:49 Vanessa Richardson? who had gone out drinking and never came home. Kevin continued to research. And a few months later, in October 2006, he found something that would change the course of his investigation. One of the men who'd gone missing in the Midwest was a student named Scott Ray Dell. He was a junior at St. Cloud State University in Minnesota. In March 2006, Scott's body surfaced in the Mississippi River and was quickly ruled a drowning. But one person wasn't convinced by that explanation, a man named Doc Gilbertson.
16:26 Vanessa Richardson? Dr. Dee Lee Gilbertson, or Doc, was an assistant professor of criminal justice at St. Cloud, where Scott had gone to school. Doc didn't just teach students about criminal investigations. He consulted with law enforcement officers about forensic victimology and crime analysis. When Doc read about Scott's case, it didn't quite pass the smell test for him. Just before he disappeared, Scott called his friends to tell them his location. When they went to find him, he was gone. Here's the thing. Scott was nowhere near the banks of the river the night he vanished. But according to investigators, Scott had stumbled all the way there before accidentally falling into the water. It seemed a little fishy to Doc,
17:11 Vanessa Richardson? so he did some research online. Doc started by searching for "missing student drowned." To his surprise, Scott Ray Dell's name wasn't the only one that came up. Hundreds of websites reported similar cases, and like Kevin, Doc started putting the pieces together. Together with some of his graduate students, Doc compiled the cases into a comprehensive spreadsheet and analyzed their similarities. Eventually, they published their research and gave a few presentations, but interest died down after a bit. Doc figured that was it. Then, in October 2006, Kevin found Doc's research.
17:53 Vanessa Richardson? Soon enough, he and Anthony were on a plane to Minnesota. The three men shared information and realized they were all on the same page. Something didn't feel right about these cases. Maybe they were connected, and maybe they weren't, but one thing was for sure: the authorities weren't taking them seriously. Doc, Kevin, and Anthony were determined to get to the bottom of things, so before long, they formed a detective agency known as Nationwide Investigations. One of the first cases they focused on was Scott Ray Dell's, and that's when they found a detail that didn't just transform the case, it would come to define it. A block away from where Scott's body was discovered, there was a piece of graffiti
18:38 Vanessa Richardson? on the wall: a smiley face.
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19:17 Speaker 02 The moment a body is found, the clock starts ticking. Forty-eight hours. That's how long detectives have before the trail begins to go cold. From A and E and Crime House, this is the official podcast from the famous true crime series, The First Forty-Eight. Step inside the critical window, the interrogations, the dead ends, and the breakthroughs that crack a case wide open. I'm Carter Roy. Each week, I revisit a landmark homicide investigation with a depth you know and immersive long-form storytelling built for your ears. Real detectives, real cases, real stakes. This is The First Forty-Eight.
20:02 Speaker 02 New episodes every Thursday. Listen to and follow The First Forty-Eight on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
20:18 Vanessa Richardson? After forming Nationwide Investigations in 2006, Kevin Gannon, Anthony Duarte, and Doc Gilbertson started going through each case file with a fine-toothed comb. If they were going to prove that these young men had been murdered, they were going to need some hard evidence. Kevin personally financed a lot of their investigations. He even remortgaged his house to pay for their work. But he really believed they were on to something. If it could help the victims' loved ones, it was worth it. And it didn't take long to see results.
20:54 Vanessa Richardson? The team started going to the crime scenes themselves. Unlike police, they didn't just look at where the bodies were discovered. Using GPS and water flow analysis, Kevin and Anthony hoped to triangulate the locations of where the bodies had entered the water. The more they did this, the more they started to see a familiar pattern. Many of the supposed sites had a smiley face spray painted nearby. When investigating an Iowa river where one body was found, Kevin and Anthony discovered a smiley face that seemed different from the rest. It was done in red with its tongue sticking out, devil horns, and a cross on the forehead. Next to it was a note reading, "Evil Happy Smiley Face Man."
21:39 Vanessa Richardson? After that, Kevin and Anthony decided the smiley faces were some kind of marker, one that was left behind by the people responsible for these supposed drownings. In the detectives' minds, the graffiti was there to taunt the police. Even with all these connections, the scope of the case was enormous. Kevin, Anthony, and Doc had identified over 80 suspicious drownings from 1997 to 2006 that could be murders. They occurred in 25 cities in 11 different states. The only real consistent location was in La Crosse, Wisconsin, where eight students had allegedly drowned in the Mississippi River over a few years' time.
22:21 Vanessa Richardson? Besides that, some of the disappearances occurred on the same day across several different states. This got the team thinking that they weren't just dealing with a potential serial killer, there were groups of them.
22:35 Tristin Engels? There's very little precedent for organized groups of serial killers operating together, especially in the kind of coordinated interstate way suggested by the smiley face killer theory. From a forensic psychology perspective, serial homicide by nature tends to be driven by individual pathology, like deeply personal motives, fantasies, and rituals that don't usually translate well into group behavior, especially when you consider the strong personality traits and pathologies that have to exist for someone to commit these kinds of crimes to begin with. Those traits don't co-mingle well with others. Individuals with high levels of narcissism, psychopathy, or sadism are driven by control and dominance.
23:19 Tristin Engels? They don't share that easily. They won't collaborate on power, secrecy, or credit. Can you imagine BTK, how he would react if someone tried to take his credit? Or Zodiac Killer, or even Ted Bundy? So the idea of multiple offenders working together seamlessly like this across states and years isn't just logistically improbable, it's psychologically inconsistent with what we know about serial offender behavior. There have been rare examples of pairs or small partnerships. We covered the Toolbox Killers on Killer Minds, for example. Those dynamics are typically built on coercion, dependency, or even shared delusion. They're interpersonal, not networks like this.
24:03 Tristin Engels? And we don't see sustainable, organized serial groups functioning across states to this degree without detection. It's just not something that happens.
24:13 Vanessa Richardson? Okay, I have to ask about this smiley face tag. Some serial killers do leave messages or markers behind. How does the smiley face compare?
24:22 Tristin Engels? Yeah, it's true. Some serial offenders do leave messages and markers. We call that signature behavior, and it's usually very personal. It reflects something about the offender's fantasy, psychology, or need for control. When we look at documented serial offenders who use symbols like the Zodiac Killer with his coded letters and his signature mark, or BTK's communications to police, there was clear intentionality and personal meaning behind them. It was also unmistakable who it was coming from, and there was no ambiguity. In contrast, the smiley faces found near these drownings didn't show that level of consistency. I mean, they weren't always the same, firstly, so that's already inconsistent with what
25:06 Tristin Engels? we know about signature behavior. And they weren't the same level of psychological signature that we know. So graffiti is common. It's something we see everywhere, especially in areas where these bodies have been found. And the smiley face is one of the most common images in modern culture. It's not a strong form of evidence, but it's certainly a notable coincidence, at the very least.
25:30 Vanessa Richardson? Well, according to the team, the smiley faces were a real pattern, but they still weren't sure if these deaths were coincidental or a coordinated effort, and they didn't have much to go on. The best evidence they had was the graffiti. In addition to the smiley faces, Kevin and Anthony had discovered at least 12 other tags at several of the dump sites. Many of these were gang-affiliated, giving some credence to the idea that the attacks were connected. But then, there was one that puzzled them. While investigating in Michigan, they found a piece of graffiti that read "sin sinawa." They learned it was a Native American word meaning rattlesnake or home of the young eagle. They couldn't figure out why the killers might have tagged it at the scene of the
26:13 Vanessa Richardson? crime, until they investigated the disappearance of Matt Kruseki.
26:20 Vanessa Richardson? In late November or early December 2005, 24-year-old Matt disappeared from East Dubuque, Illinois. His last known location? Cinsinawa Street. Cinsinawa Street was in East Dubuque, but Matt was from Heartland, Wisconsin, nearly three hours away. According to Matt's friends, he was in East Dubuque to pick up his car. Apparently, Matt said he knew some people in the area and decided to go out partying with them while he was there. Nearly three months later, on March 18, 2006, his body was discovered in the Mississippi River near Dubuque. Matt's death was ruled an accidental drowning. But his family wasn't so sure. Matt was staying at a hotel in Dubuque, Iowa,
27:04 Vanessa Richardson? but went across the river to a dive bar in East Dubuque. The Mississippi runs through Illinois and Iowa, and according to Matt's dad, it almost seemed like Matt was lured across the river, then killed. After learning about Matt's case, Kevin and Anthony agreed with his dad and thought the Cinsinawa tag backed it up. But to prove their theory, they'd need to do a lot more than point to a piece of graffiti. Because now, they had to explain how a massive network of killers had been operating in over two dozen American cities without anyone suspecting them.
27:41 Vanessa Richardson? The team believed the first component was poor evidence collection. When bodies are discovered in water, it's hard to pin down the exact location of where they went in. The surrounding area isn't usually examined as thoroughly as a typical crime scene would be. And because of that, a lot of potential evidence in these cases, like the smiley faces, went unfound. They also believed dumping a body into water could wash away a lot of evidence, including fingerprints and fibers, which meant a lot of the time the autopsy results were a mixed bag. Most showed signs of drowning, but they also revealed possible evidence of foul play. According to Kevin and Anthony, police chose to go with the accidental drowning explanation because it was the easy option.
28:26 Vanessa Richardson? This way, they wouldn't have to put in the time and resources for a full-scale investigation. But there was one detail in particular that Kevin couldn't ignore. Many of the victims had gamma hydroxybutyric acid, or GHB, in their systems. This is a central nervous system depressant often used as a date rape drug. Kevin felt strongly that earlier victims, including Patrick McNeil, had unknowingly ingested the drug. That would explain why Patrick had seemed as intoxicated as he did. But testing for GHB didn't become common until the mid 2000s, which meant Kevin would never be able to prove that Patrick or any of those previous victims had been slipped the drug.
29:09 Vanessa Richardson? Even so, the nationwide investigations team was eager to present their theory to law enforcement. In 2006, they started reaching out to the various police departments that had investigated the disappearances to discuss the discrepancies in their reports. But almost always, the police assured them that their investigations had been thorough. Kevin and Anthony weren't scared off so easily, though. They decided to take things a step further by going to the FBI. But the Bureau was equally as uninterested in what they had to say. The FBI put out a statement saying, quote, "To date, we have not developed any evidence to support links between these tragic deaths, or any evidence substantiating the theory
29:54 Vanessa Richardson? that these deaths are the work of a serial killer or killers." Kevin was incredibly frustrated, but he also wasn't surprised. In his mind, the FBI was either covering up for the police or for themselves. By 2008, the team had identified evidence of foul play in over 40 drowning deaths, and they knew they couldn't rely on law enforcement to move the needle forward. If they were going to find these killers, they needed to get the word out themselves. But first, they needed something concrete. They needed a case that was for sure a homicide. That's when they came across Christopher Jenkins.
30:36 Vanessa Richardson? Chris fit the profile of the other victims they had looked at. 21 years old, good-looking, popular, with business job prospects ahead of him. On Halloween night in 2002, Chris went out drinking with friends in Minneapolis, but they got separated at the end of the night. Nearly four months later, he was found in the ice-cold waters of the Mississippi River, still wearing his Halloween costume. Chris was discovered floating "face up," or in a supine position, which is extremely unusual for a drowning victim. Almost always, these victims are found face-down. But even that discrepancy wasn't enough to stop the authorities from claiming Chris fell into the river on his own and drowned.
31:21 Vanessa Richardson? Chris's family never bought the story. They believed someone else was involved. No one seemed to believe them, until four years later, in 2006, when Minneapolis police got a tip from an inmate. Allegedly, the man said Chris was killed, but he wouldn't give any other information. The details are murky, but we know that after this, Chris's case was upgraded to a homicide. In 2007, the Minneapolis Police Department even named a suspect to the county attorney, hoping to make an arrest. But the attorney's office said the case didn't have enough evidence to be chargeable. Interest in Chris's case didn't die down, though. The people of Minneapolis wanted answers,
32:04 Vanessa Richardson? and the nationwide investigations team felt they had them. On April 24, 2008, KSTP news reporter Christie Peel published an article titled "Chris Jenkins Murder Connects Dozens Around Country." Christie interviewed Kevin, Anthony, and Doc for the story, and according to them, Chris was murdered by the smiley-face killers. Specifically, they thought he was stalked and drugged at a bar. He was then abducted, tortured, and killed before being dumped into the river. The nationwide investigations team thought Chris and the other victims were targeted because of their youth and success, which meant the killers were acting out of jealousy.
32:49 Vanessa Richardson? In Anthony's own words, the killers were, "The type of person that would be the opposite: not smart, someone not good in school, maybe doesn't have a job, not popular."
33:01 Tristin Engels? Anthony's description of the supposed killers being the opposite of their victims reflects a really common cognitive bias that we see, both in the public and in early investigative profiling. It's the assumption that people harm others out of envy or inadequacy. Psychologically, that makes sense to us because it provides symmetry. If the victims were bright, social, and successful, then the offender must be the opposite: dark, antisocial, and resentful. But in reality, there's no consistent data that supports that. Violent offenders are rarely motivated by pure jealousy of socioeconomic status like this. More often, when envy plays a role, it's specific, it's domestic, or tied to rejection, humiliation, or interpersonal
33:46 Tristin Engels? rivalry. What Anthony seems to be unintentionally doing here is describing what makes sense emotionally, not empirically. And if you really think about it, if there were a group of serial offenders motivated by jealousy toward young men who are arguably just starting their path to success because they're in college and they don't even have established careers, or in most cases, financial independence, what kind of internal dynamics would that require? How would homicidal individuals, so consumed by envy, competition, and inferiority, manage to collaborate without those same emotions bleeding into their own group dynamic? It doesn't line up behaviorally. The personality
34:28 Tristin Engels? traits required to repeatedly commit this kind of violence, like psychopathy, sadism, and narcissism, are inherently self-focused. Those individuals don't share control, glory, or secrecy. So the idea of an organized, multi-state collective of killers acting out of shared jealousy isn't just unlikely, it's just psychologically inconsistent with what we know about these personality structures. What would you change about Anthony's profile? So aside from what I've already outlined, what really stands out to me is their fixation on this being a group of serial offenders, rather than an individual or unrelated events. I actually think that they're on to something in questioning some of these deaths.
35:12 Tristin Engels? The notable inconsistencies in how they were classified definitely deserve scrutiny. We do know that there's flaws in investigative processes and a lot of people don't get justice. But the problem is, when you push for a headline grabbing explanation like this, it can start to overshadow the pursuit of justice itself. And that can unintentionally undermine the very victims and families that they're trying to honor. I think they need to zoom out and start looking at this as like a series of individual potential issues rather than a collective. I think that's where they need to start when they're starting with their profiling.
35:50 Vanessa Richardson? Kevin, Anthony and Doc certainly knew there would be skepticism about their theory, but they hoped at least a few people would believe what they were saying. They ended up reaching a lot more than a few people. The KSTP article went viral and eventually the team's story was international news. A lot of people suddenly knew about the smiley face killers and they wanted to help catch them before they could strike again.
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37:40 Speaker 04 The government gets a bad reputation, but did you know that the roads under your feet, the forecast on your phone, the letter in your mailbox, that's all government too? I'm Professor Lindsay Cormack and I'm hosting a new podcast called Government That Doesn't Suck alongside Professor Greg Jackson, who you may know from the hit podcast History That Doesn't Suck. Each episode, we dig into the surprising story of an American institution, from the origins of the internet to the National Park Service to the GI Bill and so much more. You'll hear the stories behind them, plus a conversation with an expert who knows it inside and out. This is the real history of how we built the country under your feet and you'll never look at any of it the same way again.
38:22 Speaker 04 Listen to and follow Government That Doesn't Suck, available now wherever you get your podcasts.
38:32 Vanessa Richardson? On April 24th, 2008, Christie Peale's article about the smiley face killers theory went live. Almost immediately after, it was picked up by national news sources like CNN and Fox News, and it only got bigger from there. Soon detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte were guests on shows like Good Morning America and Larry King Live. They were able to clearly and effectively argue their case, breaking down their methodology. But there was another reason the story reached such a wide audience. Kevin and Anthony presented the smiley face killers as an ongoing threat. According to them, other young men were at risk of being targeted.
39:14 Vanessa Richardson? Many people across the country were suddenly terrified for themselves or for their children, but not everyone was buying into the theory. In cities where victims had allegedly been murdered, residents were frustrated with local authorities. Still, the police asserted that their findings were accurate, and ultimately, not a single case of accidental drowning was reopened to address new evidence. The NYPD refused to reopen Patrick McNeil's case, even though his parents lobbied for them to do so. When Larry King Live reached out to the department to ask about Patrick, they didn't respond to comment. Even in Minneapolis, the only city where an alleged smiley face death was ruled a homicide,
39:59 Vanessa Richardson? the Minneapolis PD refused to consider the smiley face theory as a potential explanation for Kris Jenkins' death. The FBI went even further in refuting the theory. They reiterated that most of the cases appeared to be alcohol-related drownings, and even when the nationwide investigations team got support from members of Congress, the FBI refused to reopen their investigations. However, the biggest criticism of the smiley face killers' theory wasn't from law enforcement, it was from the academic world. In 2010, the Center for Homicide Research published a report called "Drowning the Smiley Face Murder Theory",
40:43 Vanessa Richardson? and while the title was insensitive, the content was well researched. The report was assembled by nine leading criminologists. They laid out dozens of inconsistencies in the nationwide investigation team's methodology. To them, the biggest issue was the graffiti idea. The report argued that none of the smiley faces matched each other, and the symbol is incredibly common. They attributed the smiley faces to regular vandals, not a ring of killers. Additionally, they said the Cincinnati graffiti was a red herring that didn't necessarily line up with Matt Kruseki's death. To that end, they also disagreed with the notion that these deaths were in any way related.
41:26 Vanessa Richardson? The deaths didn't fit a serial killer motive, and there was plenty of evidence to suggest that many of the deaths were accidental. In La Crosse, Wisconsin, where eight alleged victims had died, the police department released a report detailing at least 20 young men who survived drowning in the river. Many of them were dared to jump in by their friends. The La Crosse PD believed the eight students who died had done the same and just hadn't survived. Finally, the report refuted the idea that the drownings were insufficiently investigated or that water washes off important evidence. They pointed out that it's still possible to obtain fiber and blood evidence from remains recovered in river drownings.
42:10 Vanessa Richardson? And they called out Kevin in particular. The authors said Kevin's theory came from his emotional connection to the cases, starting with Patrick McNeil. They thought this clouded his ability to think clearly and to remain impartial.
42:26 Tristin Engels? Well, I suppose I'm also from the academic world, so it's no surprise that most of the insight I've offered so far has been consistent with the Center for Homicide Research Report's findings. With the exception of this, I do believe, like I said, these young men's deaths deserve more investigation and that some may involve foul play unrelated to a coordinated group of serial offenders. I don't find the overall theory particularly strong. I think Kevin and his team are well-intentioned and deeply committed, which is commendable. But I have to say, again, I agree with their findings. From my standpoint, their conclusions align with what we know about cognitive bias and emotional investment. When someone dedicates their career and their identity to seeking justice, it becomes incredibly difficult to separate
43:11 Tristin Engels? the need to believe from the need to know. Kevin's persistence, as we've talked about earlier, likely comes from renewed purpose and empathy. But those same traits, however well-intentioned, can create blind spots. Once a hypothesis takes on emotional meaning, every piece of conflicting data can be filtered out. And that's the real tension here. The theory feels emotionally true, maybe to him, the idea that these deaths couldn't possibly be random, that there must be something darker underneath. But emotional truth isn't the same as empirical truth. As a forensic psychologist, I see how easily confirmation bias can sneak in when we're searching for order. And I've seen it often in law enforcement.
43:53 Vanessa Richardson? Even though the criminal justice world was reluctant to accept the theory, Kevin, Anthony, and Doc remained confident in their work. They knew there were some inconsistencies with their graffiti. That was the nature of gang-specific tagging. But before long, they seemed to get confirmation that these tags weren't random. In 2006, a few months after the team appeared on Good Morning America, Kevin got a call from the family of one of the victims named Todd Gibe. In 2003, Todd had disappeared from a party in Muskegon, Michigan, and was found three weeks later in a private lake. It had been three years since Todd's death, and his family went to the cemetery to celebrate him. But when they arrived, they found something shocking.
44:38 Vanessa Richardson? Someone had left a four-inch smiley face on Todd's grave. The Gibes never found out who did it. It might have been someone playing a sick joke after seeing Kevin and Anthony on TV. But Kevin had a feeling the killers had put it there to taunt them, and he wasn't gonna let them get away with it. The team spent years putting together their own report. And in 2014, Kevin Gannon and Doc Gilbertson published "Case Studies in Drowning Forensics", a 456-page book that comprehensively laid out the evidence in 14 of the smiley face cases. The book brought renewed interest in the theory. And unlike the first time,
45:22 Vanessa Richardson? the team had hard evidence about who might have committed these murders. In the years since the team first went public, a number of prisoners had come forward claiming knowledge about the smiley face cases. One was a convicted murderer named Jeremy Alfred. He told the FBI he had connections to a gang known as the Dealers of Death. The Dealers of Death allegedly committed more than 40 murders and covered them up as drownings. And one of the gang's members was named Smiley.
45:55 Vanessa Richardson? Additionally, the team allegedly had another jailhouse informant who explained the structure of the gang. The Dealers of Death supposedly operated in cells around a number of major cities, but there was a power struggle among them. The informant explained that his team traveled to New York to "straighten out a group that messed up and burned a guy," making it clear that the drowning wasn't an accident. This lined up with the death of Patrick McNeil, whose autopsy showed burning around his head. But the theory's critics still weren't convinced. They dismissed these jailhouse confessions as unreliable, and the FBI never made any arrests in the Dealers of Death case.
46:38 Vanessa Richardson? When they first went public with their theory in 2006, Kevin and Anthony were trying to put a stop to the killings. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened. Since then, the team has identified at least 20 other deaths that fit the profile of a smiley-face murder. And even though police departments continue to dismiss the notion of the smiley-face killers, the public has latched on to the story. Today, the theory is frequently shared online, especially on social media platforms like TikTok. The idea of the smiley-face killers has also had a major impact on pop culture. There have been a number of documentaries produced on the subject, and the horror film Smiley-Face
47:20 Vanessa Richardson? Killers, written by American psycho-writer Bret Easton Ellis, was released in 2020. And while it's been almost a decade since Kevin and Anthony positively identified a potential smiley-face victim, the killers are still brought up whenever a tragic drowning occurs.
47:41 Vanessa Richardson? In 2025, 16 bodies were found drowned in Houston's bayous, including five in one week in September. The victims had no connection to each other, and most were middle-aged, not the typical smiley-face victim profile. Still, the theory has been explored online, and Kevin has come out to support the idea, even as city officials downplay the threat of a serial killer. At the center of the smiley face killers' theory are the many young men who died too soon. Whether it was an accident or a murder, their lives were cut short and their families will never be the same. However, some of the theory's early supporters have grown weary
48:24 Vanessa Richardson? over time. Many of the victims' loved ones now feel that Kevin gave them empty hope. The father of one victim said, "I feel Kevin is like a sponge. He latches onto the families, sucks the life out of them, and when he has nothing else to suck, he dumps them."
48:42 Tristin Engels? That makes me really sad to hear. I think Kevin and his team had very good intentions, and people like them, who dedicate their time to investigate cold cases, make very meaningful contributions most of the time. But where things seem to have gone off course here is in the shift from investigation to ideology. The desire to prove a theory seemed to have become stronger than the need to serve the victims' families, and that's based on the victims' families' statements. Somewhere along the way, the focus turned from what happened to proving what they believed happened. And when that occurs, even well-intentioned investigators can consequently re-traumatize the very people they set out to help, giving
49:26 Tristin Engels? them false hope, and then resulting in even more ambiguous grief. I think what this case ultimately illustrates is how powerful our need for meaning really is, especially when we're faced with ambiguous loss like that. People want to believe there's an explanation or a pattern and a villain. It's easier to have explanations or something to blame than accepting the possibility of a random tragedy or a series of random tragedies. But as investigators and psychologists, we have to hold space for both possibilities. That something sinister might exist, but sometimes the world just doesn't make sense, no matter how hard we look for patterns.
50:04 Vanessa Richardson? Well, unfortunately, we may never know exactly what happened to the men who died. It's a mystery that seems to defy explanation, but a coordinated network of serial killers is certainly a compelling one.
50:20 Vanessa Richardson? Listeners, we've heard from Dr. Engels, but now I want to get your thoughts. Do you think Kevin Gannon's theory was correct? Are law enforcement agencies covering up these deaths? And do you think the smiley face killers might still be out there? Tell us in the comments.
50:39 Vanessa Richardson? Whatever the truth is, almost 20 years after Kevin and Anthony went public with their research, the smiley face killers theory still has a grip on the public consciousness. If there really is a secret organization of serial killers out there, they've been getting away with murder for years, and they might still be out there. So the next time you go out on the town with your friends, keep an eye out. Please stay safe out there.
51:14 Vanessa Richardson? I want to thank my friend and co-host on our other Crime House show, Killer Minds, forensic psychologist Dr. Tristin Engels for your insight on this theory.
51:23 Tristin Engels? It was nice tackling a conspiracy theory this time. Thank you for having me. Let's do it again.
51:29 Vanessa Richardson? Yes, as soon as possible. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes. Come back next week. We'll decode the episode together and hear another story about the real people at the center of the world's most notorious cults, conspiracies, and criminal acts. Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media, @CrimeHouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And to enhance your Conspiracy Theories: Cults
52:14 Vanessa Richardson? and Crimes listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, plus exciting bonus content. We'll be back next Wednesday.
52:28 Vanessa Richardson? Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, with special guest Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Natalie Pritzowski, Lori Marinelli, Sarah Camp, Jake Naterman, Leah Roche, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.
52:57 Tristin Engels? Follow Conspiracy Theories: Cults and Crimes, a Crime House original, now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes release Wednesday. There's also a link in this episode description that will take you right to the show. Happy holidays.
53:14 Speaker 05 Did you know the most feared pirate in the Atlantic, the man who terrorized an entire ocean for years, may never have actually killed anyone? Or that the real Golden Age of Pirates was the most democratic workplace in the Western world? I'm Connor Tomlinson from Love on the Spectrum, and history is my thing.
53:32 Speaker 06 And I'm Carter Roy, and this is What the Fact. Every week, we take the most unbelievable true things in history and tell you the whole story behind them.
53:41 Speaker 05 Carter sets the scene.
53:42 Speaker 06 Carter brings the facts, the deep cuts, and the genuine belief that this is the most interesting subject in the world.
53:48 Speaker 05 It is. This is the history lesson you actually wished you had in high school.
53:53 Speaker 06 New episodes every Wednesday. Follow What the Fact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.
54:06 Speaker 07 The police closed my sister's case in 2019. Last month, her killer commented on my post. On Reddit, true crime doesn't come from journalists. It comes from the victims, the witnesses, and sometimes the suspects themselves. People post the things they'd never say out loud: anonymous, unfiltered, and completely real. And every Tuesday on Crimes of Reddit, we read them out loud. I'm Sabrina Deanna-Roga from Two Girls, One Ghost. And I'm Alexis Linkletter from The First Degree. Each week, one of us brings the most unhinged true crime stories the internet has to offer. And the other goes in completely blind. No prep, no spoilers, reacting in real time, same as you. And then we swap.
54:48 Speaker 07 And we pull every thread until the whole twisted picture comes into view. It's dark. It's messy. And the scariest part is that these are real stories posted by real people. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen to and follow Crimes of Reddit, available now wherever you get your podcasts.
55:06 Vanessa Richardson? If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.
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