Pod Insights Serial Killers & Murderous Minds The Bloody Baron: Gilles de Rais 1 About this episode In medieval France, Gilles de Rais made his name as Joan of Arc's greatest ally. But now, we know him as one of history's most terrifying serial killers. From the depths of his castle, Gilles assaulted and murdered innocent children. And it seemed like nobody could stop him. Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House Original. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @crimehouse for more true crime content.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Vanessa Richardson? Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.
0:36 Speaker 01 This is Crime House.
0:43 Vanessa Richardson? Most of us live our lives within certain boundaries. There are lines we just don't cross morally, socially, and legally. If we ever did, we know the repercussions could be severe. But there are some people for whom no boundaries ever seem to exist. People who, due to wealth, status, or celebrity, believe they're immune to consequences, that they're special, invincible, even ordained. And what happens when someone who's never been held accountable for their actions gets a taste for murder? In those cases, the consequences can be horrifying.
1:38 Vanessa Richardson? The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes, the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. When that happens, people wonder, how could someone do such a thing? Well, on this show, that's what we're gonna try and answer. This is Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history ...most notorious serial killers and violent offenders. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible.
2:19 Vanessa Richardson? Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And for ad-free and early access to Mind of a Serial Killer, plus exciting bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
2:40 Tristin Engels? And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her dive into these killers' minds as we try to understand how someone could do such horrible things.
2:51 Vanessa Richardson? Before we get into the story, you should know it contains descriptions of murder and the sexual abuse of children. Listener discretion is advised. This is the first of two episodes on Gilles de Rais, a medieval baron who was one of the richest men in Europe, as well as a war hero who fought beside Joan of Arc. He was also a serial killer. It's believed that Gilles de Rais raped, tortured, and murdered over 150 children at his castles across western France and Brittany. Some estimates claim he killed upwards of 800 people.
3:31 Vanessa Richardson? In today's episode, we'll be exploring his transformation from a young knight in training to a child murderer. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a serial killer? In the fall of 1404, the wail of a newborn baby echoed from the Black Tower at Champs Eto'o Castle in Brittany. The child was named Gilles, and as the future Baron de Rais, he was destined to possess incredible wealth. His fortune would shape not just his future, but that of his entire country.
4:14 Tristin Engels? This is going to be a really interesting case to do a deep dive into because we are exploring the mind of a serial killer during medieval times. With that in mind, I think it's important that we draw attention to the enormous pressure that children in noble families experienced during those times. It was very classist, which still exists to this day in a lot of ways, but in medieval times, families had children solely to maintain that status and carry on bloodlines. From the moment children are born back in that era, they're being groomed to do just that at all costs. So this can affect someone in a number of ways, but mainly if we're being taught in
4:55 Tristin Engels? black and white terms that their value as a child is solely based on them furthering the family's status and wealth, that can really shape their worldview of other people and value of other people, including children.
5:09 Vanessa Richardson? So for Gilles, expectations would have been sky-high. This was, as you said, the Middle Ages when heredity determined everything about your social status. You were either a peasant, a knight, a noble, or royalty, and that's where you stayed. Gilles de Rais was born about as high on the social ladder as you could get without being a king. He was the child of two powerful houses. His father was descended from one of the oldest noble families in France. Meanwhile, his mother could trace her bloodline back to King Robert II, who'd reigned over France around 400 years earlier. Their union combined vast land holdings throughout the regions of Brittany, Anjou, and western
5:54 Vanessa Richardson? France, making them incredibly rich. And then, they died. We don't know how Gilles' mother passed away, only that it happened around 1415, when Gilles was 10 or 11. There are also some accounts that say she ran away or remarried. Either way, she was gone from Gilles' life. And that same year, his father was gored by a wild boar during a hunting trip. Historians have speculated that Gilles may have been present to witness the event. Even if he wasn't there, he sat by his father's bedside for days afterward, watching him slowly succumb to his injuries.
6:37 Tristin Engels? Losing a parent at an early age can be very traumatic for children, and the effects of that loss will vary based on the age of the child. In this case, Gilles was 10 or 11, which means it would likely manifest with more poor emotional regulation, specifically with regard to anger and resentment. But this is also the Middle Ages and the medieval times, and the mortality rate is quite low. So I would surmise that this is not the first time that Gilles witnessed death. I would also imagine that he had witnessed death from disease, famine, and violence among lower-class villagers as well. But witnessing this could cause unresolved trauma or a desensitization from death and loss,
7:21 Tristin Engels? which could allow him to rationalize his future actions based on childhood indoctrinations.
7:27 Vanessa Richardson? So after his parents died, Gilles and his younger brother Rene were taken in by their maternal grandfather, Jean de Creon. The aging aristocrat was ruthless, cunning, and obsessed with growing his family's wealth. As soon as Gilles and Rene were in his care, he started plotting to marry them off to the daughters of rich families. Otherwise, Jean pretty much ignored his grandsons, allowing them to get into whatever trouble they could come up with. Gilles exalted in the freedom. He later described his childhood, saying, "In my youth, I was allowed to go always according to my own sweet will." But that didn't mean his life was completely devoid of structure.
8:12 Vanessa Richardson? While Gilles was free to do what he wanted with his free time, his grandfather at least ensured that he received an education worthy of a nobleman. He enjoyed reading and became fluent in three languages, but he preferred sports and spent most of his time training in horsemanship and hand-to-hand combat. It was always a foregone conclusion that these skills would eventually be put to use on the battlefield. As a nobleman from a powerful French family, Gilles could be called on to fight for the crown at virtually any moment. Western Europe had been in a state of war for decades. There were always fresh conflicts cropping up that a lord of
8:53 Vanessa Richardson? his status could easily get drawn into, and Gilles couldn't wait to get his hands dirty. His chance came in 1420, when he was about 16 years old. A local count made a play for the French throne by kidnapping the Duke of Brittany. Gilles' grandfather supported the duke, and the rebellious count responded by sending bands of thugs onto their lands. Gilles and his grandfather repelled the attack, killing several of the thugs in the process. As far as we know, it was the first time Gilles took a human life, on the battlefield or off.
9:33 Tristin Engels? I had previously worked with veterans who have shared the impact of taking lives in military combat, and every one of them had struggled with the trauma of those experiences. Primarily, they struggled with reconciling that they were trained to do this, and that it was legally justified, with their own internal guilt. And I worked with Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom veterans, a lot of whom reflected on having to fight against young soldiers, soldiers that are Gilles' age, and sometimes even younger. Back in those days, it was not uncommon for children to be in combat, and at 16,
10:14 Tristin Engels? the brain is not fully developed. Specifically, the frontal lobe, where our executive functioning is, and the prefrontal cortex, which is the region that makes us uniquely human. So prolonged exposure to stress and trauma as a child, like combat, can cause that prefrontal cortex to be underdeveloped later in life. This can lead to less empathy, less reasoning, and a higher risk of aggression. In the case of Gilles, he was raised to believe he is superior to others simply by blood and status, and encouraged to behave as such.
10:53 Tristin Engels? So that kind of fixed belief can really solidify egocentric fantasies, leading to a belief of invincibility, which then creates arrogance. And the exposure to combat and the rationalization of killing adds to that picture.
11:12 Vanessa Richardson? Soon after the battle, Gilles' grandfather finally found him a wife. Catherine de Toire was rich, beautiful, and also Gilles' first cousin. The incestuous nature of the marriage meant that they needed special permission from the church before going through with the ceremony. But Gilles wasn't interested in waiting. According to Catherine's parents, he kidnapped her and forced her to marry him. He then took control of her land, occupying its many estates and fortresses throughout the French countryside. Catherine's relatives were enraged, but it was this theft, rather than the abduction, that got them so angry. They pressured Gilles to return ownership of some of Catherine's estates.
11:57 Vanessa Richardson? Gilles responded by capturing his new wife's relatives, imprisoning them in his dungeons until they agreed to drop the issue. News of the conflict eventually reached the French parliament. Gilles was forced to release his prisoners and return a small portion of the land, but otherwise faced no consequences.
12:19 Tristin Engels? I think we should talk about the impact of not facing consequences for acts like that. So in the field of criminology, there's a theory called the broken window theory, which essentially states that if there are visible signs of crime and antisocial behavior, it can create an environment that encourages further crime. I think that this can also be applied not to just the environment itself, but to the person. It's like behavioral theories in psychology regarding reinforcement. In Gilles' case, his behaviors appear to be reinforced by those around him by lack of consequence. He's getting notoriety, he's getting a reputation, he's getting validation and reward for these behaviors,
13:03 Tristin Engels? at least in his opinion. His grandfather was the one who immediately set out to arrange a marriage for Gilles to maintain the wealth of the family and made it clear that that was more important than what Gilles himself might want. So Gilles achieved this at these very horrific costs. And even if his grandfather may not have approved of how he went about it, he got the result. So it's unlikely his grandfather would really be mad or really stay mad after that as a result. But this just serves to inflate Gilles' sense of self-importance and superiority even more.
13:43 Vanessa Richardson? The conflict around the wedding marked a critical moment in Gilles' young life. He was just 16 or 17 and wouldn't come into his inheritance until he was 21. Until then, he still lived in his grandfather's shadow. And yet, he had already internalized several lessons that would guide him for the rest of his life. It was always better to ask for forgiveness than wait for permission. Consequences could be negotiated, delayed, or avoided entirely. And most importantly, violence and bullying were effective tools for getting what you wanted. And Gilles wanted a lot. His appetites went far beyond his grandfather's simple greed.
14:25 Vanessa Richardson? Soon, he would satisfy them all, unleashing his demons on the people and children of Western France.
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15:39 Tristin Engels? The police closed my sister's case in 2019. Last month, her killer commented on my post.
15:46 Speaker 04 On Reddit, true crime doesn't come from journalists. It comes from the victims, the witnesses, and sometimes the suspects themselves.
15:53 Tristin Engels? People post the things they'd never say out loud: anonymous, unfiltered, and completely real.
15:59 Speaker 04 And every Tuesday, on Crimes of Reddit, we read them out loud.
16:03 Tristin Engels? I'm Sabrina Deanna-Roga from Two Girls One Ghost.
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16:09 Tristin Engels? Each week, one of us brings the most unhinged true crime stories the internet has to offer.
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16:22 Tristin Engels? And we pull every thread until the whole twisted picture comes into view.
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17:13 Vanessa Richardson? In 1425, Gilles de Rais turned 21, the legal age where he could finally take control of his vast inheritance. In addition to paying for clothing, feasts, art, and furniture for his many estates, he was waited on by a massive staff and typically traveled with 20 to 30 people. That included not just servants, but also clerks, pages, a personal chaplain, and singers to entertain him. His grandfather, Jean de Creon, was dismayed by Gilles' reckless spending, fearing that Gilles would squander the fortune Jean had worked so hard to grow. But there was nothing he could do. Gilles was his own man,
17:58 Vanessa Richardson? with his own vices and appetites. It was around this time that the darkest of those appetites reared its head. Gilles was still married to Catherine de Trois, but it doesn't seem like he ever paid her much attention. Instead, he was drawn to the many young boys who worked at his castles as pages and apprentices. If he felt any shame for these dangerous urges, he didn't resist them for long. In 1427, when Gilles was around 23, he became interested in a 10-year-old page nicknamed Poitou, and Gilles probably saw little reason to hold back.
18:39 Vanessa Richardson? As a nobleman who'd been waited on by servants his whole life, a page boy was akin to property. The chances of getting caught were low, and most likely, no one would think twice if the boy disappeared. His parents would be upset, but children often went missing in the Middle Ages. No one would dare question the baron d'arrée for the sake of a commoner, and even if they did, it was unlikely that the French crown would take their side. So, confident that he would face no repercussions, Gilles assaulted and raped Poitou. It seems that he planned to murder him too, but had a last-minute change of heart, deciding
19:20 Vanessa Richardson? that the boy was too beautiful to kill. Instead, Gilles kept him close, promoting him to his personal valet. At the time, Poitou didn't report the assault, and Gilles' abhorrent behavior went unpunished once again.
19:38 Tristin Engels? When it comes to pedophilic urges, we often find a lot of egosyntonic behaviors, and those are behaviors that align with the needs of the individual's ego or self-image. So in the case of Gilles, his view of himself is one of extreme superiority that has been ingrained since he was a child. His extreme grandiosity means that Gilles views most things, including people, as property, and uses his privilege and status to prey upon marginalized and disenfranchised individuals. We saw that with his treatment of women, particularly his wife, and now with this young boy.
20:19 Tristin Engels? It seems that Gilles has a need for power and control, which he has began to exert in sexually deviant ways, first with his wife, but now with Poitou. I am not surprised that he chose to keep this boy near him. Sexually deviant predators often engage in trust-building and grooming to maintain control over their victims and their image.
20:42 Vanessa Richardson? Well, before Gilles could seek out any more victims, he was called to war. Around this time, France and England became embroiled in conflict. The two powers had technically been at war for decades, but the actual fighting had ebbed and flowed, depending on who was in power. But with the French throne recently vacated, the question of who would fill it brought the war back in full force. Gilles pledged allegiance to Charles VII, the son of the last French king, and became a commander in the royal army. His violent tendencies and extensive martial training made him a natural warrior. He won several early conflicts, earning a reputation as a brave and capable general.
21:26 Vanessa Richardson? But while his star was rising personally, the big-picture situation was dire. His side was losing, badly. Decades of conflict had broken the French spirit, and it was starting to look like only a miracle would save the country from British rule. In 1429, when Gilles was about 24, it finally got won. In early spring, a peasant girl around 17 years old named Joan of Arc arrived at the royal court. She announced that she'd had visions from the saints and angels instructing her to become a warrior. If Charles VII would give her men to lead, she would march on the besieged city of Orleone
22:11 Vanessa Richardson? and rescue it from the British invaders. Gilles was present the day Joan of Arc made her bold announcement. Like everyone else, he was fascinated and impressed by her conviction. He may have even seen her as a kindred spirit, someone different from everyone else, above the laws of the common man. Still, he was probably a little worried when Charles VII gave Joan her army, assigning Gilles to fight by her side. Gilles wasn't afraid of battle, but he wasn't interested in throwing his life away either. And even if he believed God was on their side, it would have been hard to fully trust his life with a teenage girl who'd never commanded an army.
22:57 Vanessa Richardson? Then they reached the city of Orleone, where Joan of Arc's prophecies became reality. In only nine days, she drove back the English forces that had laid siege to the city for about six months. For Gilles de Rais, who'd been in the thick of battle, it was now impossible to deny that Joan of Arc was chosen by God. But rather than inspiring him to turn over a new leaf and abandon his violent ways, Gilles' ego only grew. He was on Joan of Arc's side, after all. Her mission was his mission, which meant that he had also been chosen. He'd always known he was special, and now he had proof.
23:42 Tristin Engels? Someone with a pro-social mindset that experienced the Battle of Orleone would likely see this as inspirational in living a life of kindness and humility. But for someone like Gilles, who was very egocentric and narcissistic, it just fuels his grandiosity. He already is living with egocentonic fantasies, as I mentioned before, and believing that he has been chosen by God will only fuel that sense of invincibility, which makes him that much more dangerous.
24:17 Vanessa Richardson? Joan of Arc's victory at Orleone revitalized the French spirit and turned the tide of the war. It also turned Gilles de Rais into a war hero and led to Charles VII's coronation. The new king rewarded Gilles for his role in the campaign by naming him Marshal of France. It was a symbolic title, but essentially made him the highest-ranked soldier in the country. Gilles had won the respect of his country and his king, but that respect didn't help his growing financial issues. In addition to funding his extravagant lifestyle and massive staff, Gilles was now paying for a personal army that was actively at war.
25:01 Vanessa Richardson? His soldiers might have been inspired by Joan of Arc's victories, but they still had to be paid. By 1429, when Gilles was around 25, his expenses had burned a serious hole in his pocketbook. He was still ridiculously rich, but most of his money was tied up in property. But Gilles had no interest in reducing his expenses, so to free up some cash, he decided to sell off some family land. His grandfather, Jean de Creon, was furious. For years, his sole obsession had been building up the family's land holdings, which would keep them relevant in French politics for years to come. He'd hoped to protect his legacy and name forever,
25:46 Vanessa Richardson? and now, his impulsive grandson was risking it all. Jean quickly bought back the land and publicly insulted Gilles, accusing him of overspending and shirking his responsibilities to the family. It was a humiliating slap in the face, and only a few months later, Gilles was hit with another disappointment, one that could threaten everything he'd built.
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27:47 Vanessa Richardson? In 1430, Joan of Arc was thrown from her horse during battle and captured. Some historians believe that Gilles de Rais may have mounted a rescue attempt, but if he did try, the rescue failed. Joan of Arc was tried for heresy and witchcraft and burned at the stake in front of an estimated 10,000 people. For 25-year-old Gilles, it was the end of a dream. By sticking with Joan of Arc, he'd probably hoped to earn himself more fame and wealth while securing a place in history, possibly even in heaven. But now, that future was gone.
28:27 Vanessa Richardson? His military career continued after Joan of Arc's death, but something had changed. In 1432, when Gilles was about 28, he showed unusual ruthlessness while clashing with the English, allowing his men to pillage and plunder their enemies in the wake of the battle. It's not clear what inspired this shift in tactics. Maybe fighting alongside a woman said to be anointed by God had convinced him to keep his cruelty under wraps. But now, there was nothing holding him back. Then, also in 1432, his grandfather died. Jean had never forgiven Gilles for selling off the family land.
29:12 Vanessa Richardson? On his deathbed, he bequeathed his sword and breastplate to Gilles's younger brother, Rene.
29:20 Vanessa Richardson? It was a gesture of heavy significance, suggesting that Rene, not Gilles, would carry on the family's name and legacy. In medieval society, that was always the oldest son's responsibility, and legally speaking, nothing had changed. But it was a public symbol of rejection, a way for Jean to shame his grandson. Such a visible humiliation would have been extremely damaging to Gilles' reputation within the royal court, insinuating that there was something deeply wrong that made him unworthy of his inheritance. It may have been the first time that he truly faced consequences for his actions, but it was too little, too late.
30:02 Tristin Engels? We're definitely seeing a very significant pattern of narcissism here with Gilles, even with his association with Joan of Arc. Very obvious that anyone around him, he wants around him for a reason, a reason that helps lift up his reputation and his ego. What his grandfather did likely caused what's called a narcissistic injury. The reason a narcissist is so grandiose is because they are trying to convince themselves and those around them that they have a high sense of self-worth, when the reality is, it's more often than not, an overcompensation for a lack of self-worth.
30:43 Tristin Engels? So when a narcissist's flaws are highlighted, especially publicly, it devastates their pride and shatters the image that they've carefully crafted to hide that vulnerability. So as you can imagine, somebody with a narcissistic injury will react with extreme defensiveness, as most of what a narcissist does is usually extreme. We are likely to see aggressive reactions, as this is the only way that they know how to restore their image and their attempt to prevent anyone else from daring to hold them to task in the future.
31:18 Vanessa Richardson? Well, after his grandfather's death, whatever self-restraint Gilles de Rais had exhibited dissolved completely. His sexual appetite and bloodlust exploded in a crescendo of horror that seemed to come out of nowhere. In 1432, the same year his grandfather died, Gilles sent several members of his inner circle out to local towns in search of "boys" who fit his tastes. They soon identified a 12-year-old boy, who was apprentice to a local craftsman. Gilles' men asked his master if they could pay to have the boy deliver a note to a nearby castle where Gilles was staying. The man agreed, and the boy ran off with the letter.
32:03 Vanessa Richardson? We don't know the exact details of what happened that night, but the boy never returned. And in the coming weeks, many more victims followed in his path. Okay, a brief disclaimer before I continue. What follows is a broad overview of the methods commonly employed by Gilles de Rais. Even without getting into specific incidents, it's extremely disturbing, especially since it involves the sexual assault and torture of minors. I'll keep things as brief as I can, but some detail is necessary to understand what he was capable of. If you'd like to skip this section, I'd recommend jumping forward about a minute and a half.
32:48 Vanessa Richardson? The abductions followed a similar pattern. The victims were mostly boys, but some girls were taken too. All of them were approached by members of Gilles' entourage, who'd been tasked with getting the children to the castle. Once they arrived, the victims were given food and spiced wine before being taken upstairs to a private chamber. Gilles de Rais soon entered, sometimes alone, but often with one or more friends. He liked to start by telling his victims exactly what was about to happen, relishing their terror as the hopelessness of their situation became clear.
33:28 Vanessa Richardson? The children were tied up, then briefly hung with a rope or chain connected to a hook in the ceiling. When they were close to passing out, Gilles released them and sexually assaulted them. Before the night was done, he murdered the children himself, or had one of his friends do it.
33:46 Tristin Engels? We're seeing some sexual sadism here.
33:48 Vanessa Richardson? Absolutely. The victims were slain in virtually every manner imaginable, but decapitation and dismemberment were some of Gilles' favorite methods. He would often sit on the victims' chests and look in their eyes as they died. He caressed and performed sex acts with the corpses, and liked to keep heads and other body parts as souvenirs. Otherwise, the bodies were cremated in the castle furnaces, and the ashes were thrown in the moat.
34:23 Tristin Engels? If you did not skip this section and you are feeling triggered by this in any way, we have put some resources in the description of today's episode that I encourage you to check out. At this point, back to Gilles. Gilles meets criteria for various paraphilia disorders, starting with pedophilia, necrophilia, and sexual sadism. Now, sexual sadism is characterized by intense sexual arousal from recurring fantasies or behaviors involving the physical or psychological harm of another. Sadistic acts include restraint, imprisonment, biting, and more,
35:05 Tristin Engels? and should include that with a consenting partner. So if the partner's consenting, it's not necessarily a pathology in itself, but rather what we would call a sexual kink or interest. So we don't want to shame people who are interested in those sorts of things, provided they're doing it consensually. However, this is much more than that. This is pathological, because the acts are done on non-consenting partners, also whom are minors, and it's causing functional impairment in social, professional, and legal areas. And when that's the case, that's when we can have a diagnosis of sexual sadism.
35:46 Tristin Engels? What Gilles is doing goes beyond the criteria of sexual sadism because it's combined with not just criminal acts, but narcissistic personality disorder traits. Obviously, I can't say for certain that's what's happening here because I haven't evaluated him, as well as psychopathy or antisocial personality disorder. He is getting psychological gratification from harming others and not just sexual gratification. This is about maintaining the belief that he is above everyone else and has the power and control at all times. So I think we're seeing this level of depravity from Gilles because it's a response to the narcissistic injury of not only his grandfather, but losing his connection to Joan of Arc.
36:29 Tristin Engels? That association with her gave him sort of a god complex. He was able to believe that he was chosen by God through association. And now he no longer has that to fuel his egosyntonic fantasies. So he's seeking that superiority in very, very depraved ways.
36:50 Vanessa Richardson? Whatever it was that drove him to commit such horrific crimes, Gilles de Rais had finally unleashed his inner demons, clearly. During this period of slaughter, he continued to show no fear of repercussions and took only minimal steps to prevent himself from getting caught. And really, he didn't need to. If any of his victims' parents suspected him, there was little they could do about it. Beyond being incredibly rich, Gilles de Rais was a nobleman and a war hero with powerful friends in the French royal court. But if there was one thing he was good at, it was making enemies. Soon enough, his reckless behavior would put him in conflict with his powerful extended
37:33 Vanessa Richardson? family, eventually landing him in hot water with the King of France himself.
37:51 Vanessa Richardson? Only two years after his grandfather's death, Gilles de Rais seemed to have lost interest in the ongoing war with England. He stopped paying his soldiers and retreated from military life. In addition to tarnishing his reputation as a war hero, this likely caused lasting damage to his relationship with King Charles VII. He also spent much less time at the royal court, preferring his private castle, deep in the French countryside. Meanwhile, his abductions and murders of local peasant children continued unabated. For the people in those communities, it was impossible to deny that something was wrong. Soon rumors began to spread of a great evil taking root in the land.
38:36 Vanessa Richardson? There were whispers of child stealers on the roads, talk of a vague beast of extermination preying on the innocents. Whatever was causing the disappearances, they were facing an evil of supernatural proportions. And slowly, their gaze began to fix on the castles of Baron Gilles de Rais.
38:59 Tristin Engels? So there seems to be a dramatic shift in his behavior ever since he had that public narcissistic injury and also the distancing of his past military experience. But I think this is due to a number of factors. He no longer has anything holding him accountable. It was initially waiting until he was 21 to access his fortune. Then it was waiting for his grandfather to pass his inheritance on to him. It was also Joan of Arc being chosen by God and his belief that he will hold favor of the people and God by fighting alongside her. All of those things are now gone. And when we see that there's been no real consequence,
39:41 Tristin Engels? no oversight and full reign to act on his impulses, it makes sense why there was this dramatic shift. This behavior is not explained by unresolved trauma alone, but rather fixed belief. Poor ego strength, wealth and stature, the times he was living in, and his pathology. Additionally, he has combat exposure at a young age, but during that era, there was a lot of depravity in combat in the form of torture. So torture that was normalized by virtue of their military cause could perhaps have taught him how to release pent up anger, restlessness, boredom, or resentment in that way.
40:24 Vanessa Richardson? While Gilles had undergone a dark transformation, his rampant spending had only gotten worse. In addition to funding his decadent lifestyle, he was now paying for several massively expensive projects. In fourteen thirty-five, when Gilles was about thirty-one, he financed a play glorifying his victory at the Battle of Orleans six years earlier. In addition to paying for actors and costumes, he bought unlimited food and wine for the spectators, just to make sure everyone enjoyed themselves. Meanwhile, he poured funds into the construction of a lavish chapel. This was typical of wealthy aristocrats at the time, but it's interesting in Gilles' case,
41:08 Vanessa Richardson? since he'd never shown much interest in religion throughout his life. Perhaps his experience with Joan of Arc had affected him. Whatever his motivations, the name of the church may offer a telling clue. Gilles dubbed it "The Chapel of the Holy Innocents", a reference to the biblical passage in which King Herod orders the death of male children under two. It was ironic, considering that while the church was being built, Gilles and his friends were murdering children by the dozens. The chapel was a major drain on his finances, but Gilles didn't care. Whenever he ran out of money, he simply sold another estate or castle.
41:52 Vanessa Richardson? This enraged his relatives, who feared he would destroy their family's reputation and any potential inheritance their offspring could hope for. Desperate to stop him, they wrote to King Charles VII for help. The king heard their complaints and was quick to intervene. He had a vested interest in keeping powerful noble houses around, because they maintained their own armies, which the crown could rely on in times of war. He didn't want to see one of his most powerful supporters go bankrupt. In 1435, he issued a royal edict forbidding Gilles de Rais from selling any more land.
42:33 Vanessa Richardson? Gilles was furious. He'd barely escaped the thumb of his meddling grandfather, and now the king he'd helped put on the throne was telling him what to do with his own property. It was a serious blow, but Gilles was not ready to abandon either his projects or his decadent lifestyle. Instead, he decided that the solution to his problems lay in alchemy, a mystical pseudo-scientific art that professed the power to turn lead into gold.
43:06 Tristin Engels? Very interesting. But given that this is the Middle Ages, it's not surprising he would turn to alchemy as possible solutions to his problems, because that was a pretty prolific practice then. But it also begs the question as to why he hadn't tried that first, before he sold nearly all of his family's property. It seemingly adds to his pathology. We have seen that Gilles is prone to egosyntonic fantasies, and the idea that he is invincible, he has delusions of grandeur, and poor impulse control. These are all common for individuals who have narcissistic personality disorder, but also he's a malignant narcissist with sociopathy.
43:52 Tristin Engels? It's hard to say for certain without being able to assess him myself, but whatever the cause, it certainly highlights that Gilles has never had a problem that he was unable to resolve quickly. But I think he will soon learn that there is no quick resolution to his current predicament, and he is not going to like that very much.
44:17 Vanessa Richardson? In 1439, Gilles sent a priest and his entourage to Italy in search of a magician who could help him. The priest soon returned with an alchemist named François Prlati. Gilles was instantly smitten with the attractive, charming, 22-year-old magician, and he was relieved when Prlati confirmed that he could help. It wouldn't be easy, though. Restoring his fortune was going to cost him in blood. But Gilles de Rais was ready to make sacrifices. He'd already committed some of the worst sins known to man. Why not add black magic and devil worship to the mix?
45:13 Vanessa Richardson? Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next time as we discuss how Gilles de Rais tried to save his fortune and met his downfall.
45:23 Tristin Engels? Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you'd like what you heard today, reach out on social media at @CrimeHouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.
45:49 Vanessa Richardson? And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Mind of a Serial Killer ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content. We'll be back next Monday. Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios, is executive produced by Max Cutler. This episode of Mind of a Serial Killer was produced and directed by Ron Shapiro, written by Andrew Kelleher, edited by Alex Benadon, fact-checked by Catherine Barner, and included production assistance from Sarah Carroll
46:30 Vanessa Richardson? and Stacy Warrenker. Mind of a Serial Killer is hosted by Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristan Engels. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was "The Horrific Crimes of Gilles de Rais Revisited: Life of a Serial Killer of the Middle Ages" by Jack Smith.
46:57 Speaker 01 Before today's episode, I want to tell you about The Unbelievable, a new podcast from the History Channel and Rewind Studios, adapted from the hit TV show. Each episode opens a cabinet of curiosities to uncover history's strangest but true stories, like the woman who survived a two-mile fall by landing in a nest of fire ants. When it comes to history, the truth is always more unbelievable than you think. Follow The Unbelievable, available now on your favorite podcast app.
47:32 Vanessa Richardson? If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.
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