Pod Insights Serial Killers & Murderous Minds MURDEROUS MINDS: The Murder of Gabby Petito Pt. 1 About this episode Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie looked like the perfect influencer couple—young, in love, and chasing adventure. But behind the Instagram posts was a dark and dangerous reality. In Part 1, we trace the beginning of their relationship, the red flags everyone missed, and the psychological unraveling that ended in murder.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Vanessa Richardson? Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.
0:37 Speaker 01 This is Crime House.
0:41 Vanessa Richardson? Social media allows us to be more connected than ever. You can stay in touch with old friends, see what that random person you met on a cruise ship is up to, even follow someone you've never met before. Thanks to social media, we're able to enjoy each other's brightest moments. Things like engagements, kids, exotic travels. But also, it allows us to mask our darkest tragedies. If you were one of Gabby Petito's followers in the summer of 2021, you would have seen a happy, bubbly, smiling young woman. By all appearances, she was just another aspiring influencer, traveling across the United States in a van
1:22 Vanessa Richardson? with the love of her life, Brian Laundrie. But that was only part of the story. There was a lot that Gabby didn't share. And as her follower count grew into the millions, people all over the world were desperate to learn more about her. Because they wanted to help solve her murder.
1:55 Vanessa Richardson? The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa.
2:10 Tristin Engels? And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.
2:19 Vanessa Richardson? Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review, and follow Killer Minds. To enhance your listening experience with ad-free, early access to each two-part series and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. A warning: This story contains descriptions of physical abuse and violence. Listener discretion is advised. Today, we'll begin our deep dive into the disappearance and murder of Gabby Petito and the man who killed her, Gabby's fiance, Brian Laundrie. In the summer of 2021, 22-year-old Gabby and 23-year-old Brian went on the trip of
3:01 Vanessa Richardson? a lifetime, traveling the American wilderness in a camper van. Gabby hoped to use the experience to become a social media influencer, and she succeeded in the most tragic way possible.
3:15 Tristin Engels? As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like the psychological effects of physical and social isolation, how abusers are able to convince others they aren't hurting their loved ones, and why people are reluctant to share their struggles on social media.
3:32 Vanessa Richardson? And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?
3:42 Vanessa Richardson? Everyone who knew Gabby Petito described her as bubbly, excited, and happy. She was born on March 19, 1999, in the town of Blue Point on Long Island, New York. Even though her parents, Joe and Nicole, divorced when Gabby was six months old, she still grew up in a loving home. Jo and Nicole remained amicable and were dedicated co-parents to Gabby. That continued even after they both remarried. Eventually Gabby became an older sister to a total of six step-siblings and half-siblings. She took on the role with enthusiasm and charm.
4:21 Tristin Engels? When we look at Gabby's background, particularly focusing on the family dynamics, it appears she was very adaptable and emotionally resilient. Given what we know about her from interviews with her family and what was made public, she maintained strong relationships with both of her parents as well as her step-family. And research consistently shows that when divorced parents are able to maintain cooperative, low-conflict relationships, their children adjust much better. And Gabby's parents seem to have modeled that. They were both involved, they were supportive and unified. She was also a baby when her parents divorced and that was her "normal" for her entire life. But that being said, early family experiences can influence adult attachment styles,
5:06 Tristin Engels? coping strategies, and even conflict resolution behaviors. Gabby's reported sensitivity, her nurturing behavior, and her adventurous spirit might have been adaptive responses to the environment she grew up in, which was a loving but complex family system, where flexibility and emotional alignment were necessary. There are challenges and strengths that can come from growing up in a blended family. And Gabby's strength was her ability to adapt by remaining connected to all of her family.
5:35 Vanessa Richardson? Is there some kind of psychological impact to suddenly being thrust into the role of older sibling like she was?
5:42 Tristin Engels? Yes, absolutely. There can be major developmental influences from this, especially when we consider birth order. So she took on the role of older sister. And when a child is suddenly repositioned as the oldest, oftentimes they have to shift navigating their own needs to navigating the needs of their younger siblings. Not to mention, there are often expectations that are placed on older siblings to be "examples" to younger siblings or take on more of the emotional labor because they're older. Those expectations can also be self-imposed and not necessarily coming from her parents.
6:16 Tristin Engels? A child that grows up feeling responsible for the emotional well-being of others can develop traits like hyper-responsibility, people-pleasing, conflict avoidance, and even anxiety. On the other hand, it can also enhance resilience. It can enhance empathy and leadership. And as with everything, it's just truly about balance.
6:35 Vanessa Richardson? Well, if her family dynamic did bother Gabby, she wasn't showing it. As a teenager, she attended high school in the town of Bayport, New York, where she excelled in art and had a lot of friends. After graduating in 2017, Gabby decided to spread her wings and settle on the coast of North Carolina, where she worked at a restaurant in the city of Wilmington. She spent a few years there before coming back to Long Island in January 2019. A couple months later, a chance meeting changed her life forever. Around March 2019, 20-year-old Gabby was outside a deli when a young man pulled his car over to say hi.
7:18 Vanessa Richardson? His name was Brian Laundrie, and he was a year above her in high school. They got to talking and quickly realized there was a deep connection there. Before long, they were dating. It was definitely an opposites-attract kind of relationship. Brian was more reserved and quiet, while Gabby was outgoing and chatty. And although looks aren't everything, they weren't the most logical physical match. Gabby was traditionally pretty, with blonde hair and blue eyes. Meanwhile, Brian was bald by the time he left high school, and according to their friends, looked about 10 years older than he actually was. None of that seemed to matter to them, though. From the outside, Gabby and Brian's relationship looked rock-solid.
8:02 Vanessa Richardson? They were young, happy, and seemed to be very much in love. After a few months, Gabby and Brian moved to Florida together, where they lived with Brian's parents in the town of Northport. The Laundries had moved there after Brian graduated high school so they could be closer to his older sister, Cassie. Gabby fit in with the Laundries from the get-go. She particularly bonded with Brian's mom, Roberta, which was a good thing because Roberta was very protective of her son.
8:33 Vanessa Richardson? Brian was 10 years younger than his sister, making him the baby of the family. So it wasn't surprising that Roberta cared a lot about keeping him safe. But her concern went a step further than typical motherly love. At some point in his life, likely before Gabby's eventual murder, Roberta wrote a letter to Brian. She promised that if he was ever arrested, she'd bake a nail file into a cake so he could escape his jail cell. In that same letter, she also promised she'd help him dig a grave if he ever needed to dispose of a body.
9:09 Tristin Engels? It's very natural for a parent to be protective of their child. That's wired into us biologically. But as with most things, there are limits. And this kind of protectiveness that Roberta was emphasizing in her letter has to be balanced with accountability and boundaries. Otherwise, this could inadvertently enable bad behavior. In her letter, she is essentially saying that she will, reflexively, without thought, take his side in any conflict, even if what he has done is legally, ethically, or morally wrong. That's not just unhealthy. It's a problem. It's something we would refer to as pathological enmeshment. This occurs when a parent and a child's identities are so intertwined that the parent cannot separate their own emotions and needs from their child.
9:53 Tristin Engels? That letter had other elements to it. And some of what she wrote indicated that there was an overly dependent emotional relationship with Brian. Unconditional love for your child does not mean and should never mean the same thing as unconditional defensiveness of bad behavior. Healthy parenting involves support, not blind allegiance. Healthy parenting is guiding a child toward accountability and not guarding them from it.
10:19 Vanessa Richardson? How could having a mom like this have affected Brian specifically?
10:24 Tristin Engels? This kind of parenting can create problematic traits like poor emotional regulation, entitlement, or a fragile self-esteem, difficulty with empathy, and even attachment disturbances. In Brian's case, these dynamics could help explain some of the behaviors that were later observed, such as his controlling tendencies, his emotional volatility, blaming others, and intimate partner violence. And as I mentioned, these behaviors may have been enabled or reinforced if there were no boundaries or accountability coming from his own parents. As always, none of this excuses harmful behavior. It's simply just to provide context and can help explain what led to this outcome.
11:05 Tristin Engels? This is about understanding how certain dynamics in childhood or experiences can shape a personality or create pathological behavior.
11:15 Vanessa Richardson? Well, later on, Brian's mom, Roberta, would claim she wasn't being literal, and she certainly wasn't talking about the situation with Brian and Gabby. Still, the letter was undated, so it's hard to know one way or the other. It's also unclear if Roberta had a full picture of what was going on in her own home. Because even though Gabby and Brian's relationship seemed to be going well, there were signs that trouble was brewing beneath the surface. Moving down to Florida meant Gabby had to leave her family, friends, and social life behind. That left Brian as the only familiar face in a new environment, and it seemed like he preferred it that way. Brian was incredibly possessive, to the point where he once took Gabby's wallet
11:59 Vanessa Richardson? so that she couldn't leave the house to see a new friend.
12:03 Tristin Engels? And these are definitely indications of intimate partner violence.
12:06 Vanessa Richardson? And despite these red flags, their relationship got increasingly serious. Less than a year and a half into dating, in the summer of 2020, Brian asked Gabby to marry him. He didn't have a ring, but the moment he asked, a firefly landed on Gabby's finger. She took it as a sign and said yes. Gabby was ready to tackle the future with Brian by her side, no matter what. When the COVID-19 pandemic hit around March 2020, Gabby and Brian were living in Florida. Like so many others that year, their world got even smaller. By the time things started to open up later that year, Gabby and Brian were ready to spread their wings.
12:50 Vanessa Richardson? Without careers or children to tie them down, they wanted to travel wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted. So, like many other young people in the wake of the pandemic, they joined the growing van life movement and packed everything they had onto four wheels. In December 2020, Gabby and Brian bought a white Ford van. And while Gabby was excited to camp, hike, and sightsee her way across the United States, that wasn't the only thing she was looking forward to. With some hard work and a little luck, this wouldn't just be the trip of a lifetime for Gabby. It would be the start of a career. She hoped to parlay her adventures into a job as a van life influencer. With enough followers,
13:34 Vanessa Richardson? she could get paid partnerships and brand deals, allowing Gabby to make a living from her life on the road.
13:41 Tristin Engels? People live the van life all the time, and they have amazing adventures. But it also comes with a lot of risks, especially for Gabby and Brian. Brian has already been showing signs of possessiveness and intimate partner violence. He's succeeded in isolating Gabby from her friends and family when she moved to Florida. She had no one other than him and his family there. Then he's isolating her financially by hiding her wallet. So shrinking their entire lives into a van, away from everyone, is even more isolation and forced dependency. That kind of life of compression can come with more emotional dependency and more intense conflicts, because the conflict will feel existential when your entire life is tied to that person, and especially when you're consistently
14:25 Tristin Engels? far away from any support system. But also, we need to consider the pandemic and how this affected them as well. COVID dramatically altered human relationships in ways that we are still trying to understand. Isolation did become the norm, so she was already isolated from friends for quarantine reasons in addition to having moved. And it's likely that Brian was the only real connection she had been able to consistently maintain during this time as a result. There was also an increase in stress and anxiety during the pandemic. People's emotional tolerance had diminished due to being in a constant state of discomfort, boredom, or frustration. And Gabby and Brian are almost exclusively relying on each other for emotional and physical survival without any space to breathe.
15:10 Tristin Engels? So while van life seems like a great escape from the pandemic and an exciting adventure, when you consider the emotional burnout from the pandemic and the signs of violence in their relationship, we can really see how unsafe this truly was for her.
15:25 Vanessa Richardson? Even though the van seems to have been Gabby's idea, is there something in her relationship with Brian, or maybe her life in Florida, that could have motivated her to untether from society like she did?
15:37 Tristin Engels? So even though the van life journey appears to have been her idea, at least outwardly, we have to think critically and compassionately about what might have motivated her to want to do this in the first place. She was young. She's 22 years old, and many young adults feel a strong desire for freedom or self-discovery, adventure, especially after major life disruptions like the COVID-19 pandemic. Then there is the relational side. So when you're in a relationship where dynamics like control, emotional volatility, or even subtle emotional abuse are present, the idea of isolating together, going us against the world, can be really seductive. Not because it's healthy, but because of Brian's insecurity and his emotional volatility.
16:20 Tristin Engels? Remember that it's possible, and maybe even likely, that Gabby defaults to taking on the emotional labor based on her early childhood experiences, and Brian was emotionally volatile. That was something she probably had to do quite often. So van life with Brian could have been seductive to Gabby because it felt like a solution to his controlling and insecure behavior. She may have felt that this would make things better for them, get him to trust her loyalty, and in turn, make their relationship stronger and healthier, and therefore, of course, emotionally safer for her. But also, even if it was her idea, it was certainly seductive to Brian, too. Gabby wanted to go on this journey for adventure and to strengthen their relationship,
17:02 Tristin Engels? whereas Brian wanted to, possibly and more likely, do so because he would have full control over Gabby. And as I mentioned, that would be particularly enticing for him. Regardless, in the end, the only person to blame for what happened is Brian.
17:19 Vanessa Richardson? Well, not everyone was so gung ho about Gabby's plans, specifically her family. Gabby was young and pretty. They were clearly concerned about her safety out on the road. If there was some measure of relief, it was that Gabby's fiance would be by her side, looking out for her. So even if they weren't thrilled about Gabby's decision, they weren't going to stop her. By the summer of 2021, Gabby and Brian's modified van was finally ready for their journey across the United States. It began that June, when Gabby and Brian went north to attend her brother's high school graduation. On the 17th, she posted a video out the window of the van as she and Brian crossed the George Washington Bridge into New York City.
18:02 Vanessa Richardson? Succulents bounced on the dashboard as Gabby panned over to the Manhattan skyline. The text on the video read, "Hello, New York." After that, on July 2, 2021, Gabby and Brian set their sights west. Two days later, they celebrated Independence Day at Kansas's Monument Rocks. It was there, on the 4th of July, that Gabby posted the first of many Instagram photos on her influencer account. The pictures tagged #VanLife, and in it, Gabby's standing under the picturesque rock structure beaming. She tagged Brian, and the caption said, "There's no place like the tiny home we built."
18:43 Vanessa Richardson? Unfortunately, the travel blog didn't materialize like Gabby had hoped. Whatever followers she gained that summer weren't enough to secure any paid partnerships. Even so, it seemed like she and Brian were having the time of their lives. At least, that's what Gabby's posts made it seem like. But the truth was far more sinister, and it wouldn't be long until people started to notice.
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20:32 Vanessa Richardson? In the summer of 2021, 22-year-old Gabby Petito was on what should have been the trip of a lifetime with her fiance, 23-year-old Brian Laundrie. After starting their journey in New York, they made their way west through Kansas and into the Rocky Mountains. On July 8th, Gabby posted a picture in Colorado Springs, where she stood in front of a painted wall of dogwood flowers. Two days later, she was in the Great Sand Dunes National Park, where she and Brian were able to score a last-minute camping permit. After a couple days of camping and surfing down the sand dunes, the couple was off to Utah, where they went hiking around Zion National Park.
21:15 Vanessa Richardson? Everything was beautiful, picturesque, and perfect. Until it wasn't.
21:23 Vanessa Richardson? On August 12th, 2021, police officers in Moab, Utah, received a 911 call involving a possible domestic incident. An eyewitness reported seeing a couple get into an argument while walking down the city's main street. According to the witness, the man slapped his partner, chased her down the sidewalk, and hit her again. They exchanged words and a few minutes later drove off in a white van with a Florida license plate. Moab police officers Eric Pratt and Daniel Scott Robbins responded to the call. They drove off in the direction the van had gone and spotted it heading out of town, driving 30 miles over the speed limit.
22:07 Vanessa Richardson? Eventually, the officers caught up and pulled the vehicle over. At the time of this recording, the body cam footage has now been viewed over 16 million times. In it, you can see the officers approach the side of the white Ford van and peer inside. Gabby was in the passenger seat, crying and struggling to catch her breath. Meanwhile, Brian was calm and collected. When he spoke to the officers, he was polite and almost seemed happy, like nothing was wrong. The officers separated the couple and questioned them for over an hour. Despite the visible bruises on her face, Gabby tried taking the blame for the incident.
22:51 Vanessa Richardson? She said that she'd been stressed out that morning working on her blog and that her OCD had caused her to snap at her fiance. When asked if Brian hit her, she said yes, but only after she'd hit him first. She pointed to a cut on her cheek that Brian caused, but continued to blame their troubles on her own anxiety. In his report, Officer Robbins wrote that Gabby was crying so heavily she could barely speak.
23:21 Tristin Engels? Gabby portraying herself as the aggressor, even when there were visible signs that she was distressed and victimized, is actually more common than many people realize. Often victims of domestic violence engage in a trauma response known as flaunting, and it is essentially people-pleasing behaviors in order to avoid conflict and maintain safety in relationships. I believe this is the behavior that Gabby defaulted to with Brian. When you're in a relationship where emotions, anger, or control are unpredictable, you learn very quickly that your own survival depends on keeping the peace. Taking the blame, minimizing the problem, or even falsely presenting yourself as the aggressor was a strategy Gabby used to soothe Brian's anger and to avoid further escalation.
24:07 Tristin Engels? She likely felt this was the best option for her safety. And I think that was magnified by how isolated and dependent she had become in this relationship. He had her van that they shared, her keys, her belongings, and they were in an environment she did not know, with limited income and far from anyone she felt safe with. And in this moment, she was just surviving.
24:30 Vanessa Richardson? While Gabby tried to take the blame for what happened, Brian's reaction was very different. When the officers asked about the scratches on his arm and face, Brian made a show of covering for Gabby, saying she just needed time to calm down. His answers painted her as the aggressor while he came off as the victim. According to Brian, the argument started that morning when they were trying to get on the road in Moab. He said his feet were dirty when he climbed into the van, which Gabby didn't like. As he told it, the argument spiraled from there. They climbed out of the van, and Gabby eventually threw her phone at him. After that, Brian said he pushed her away. He claimed he locked them both out of the van,
25:15 Vanessa Richardson? then tried to walk away from her and get some air. Presumably, that was the argument the witness had seen. And when the officers were done talking to both of them, they decided Brian was the one who needed protection.
25:29 Vanessa Richardson? In the body cam footage, the police debated what to do for several minutes. They mentioned that the law didn't give them any discretion when it came to domestic violence cases, and they were mandated to take the abuser into custody. However, they decided they could be lenient this time. Instead of arresting Gabby, they convinced her and Brian to separate for a bit. She stayed in the van while Brian got a hotel through Safe Haven, a program that helps survivors of domestic abuse.
26:00 Tristin Engels? One of the most devastating realities about domestic abuse, whether it's emotional, physical, or both, is that the person doing the harm is often very good at hiding it, while the person being harmed can appear less credible to an outsider. People who are controlling and abusive often develop strong skills in impression management. They know how to seem charming, stable, likable, even vulnerable to those outside of the relationship. It's a carefully crafted public persona. It's not accidental, it's a form of social camouflage, and it's part of how they maintain control. If no one else suspects them, the victim becomes even more isolated and disempowered.
26:41 Tristin Engels? Meanwhile, the person actually being harmed often appears more distressed and more emotional, especially under stress, because they are in emotional pain. They may cry, panic, seem confused, contradict themselves, or appear overly apologetic, especially when authorities or outsiders get involved, and that was definitely evident there with Gabby. Trauma responses like freezing, dissociating, or fawning can make victims seem less believable in a traditional sense, especially to those who are not trauma-trained or trauma-informed, which unfortunately is often the case with law enforcement. It's a tragic paradox.
27:21 Vanessa Richardson? Well, despite everything that had happened, it seems like Gabby wanted to move on from the whole thing. Later that evening, she and Brian met up. He hopped into the van and they resumed their journey as if everything was fine. The body cam footage wouldn't become public until much later, after Gabby had been reported missing. And it doesn't seem like Gabby was eager to share that part of her journey. Although she did tell her parents a version of what happened, she didn't give them the full story, and she definitely didn't share it on social media. Instead, on the night of August 12th, 2021, after she and Brian went back on the road, Gabby posted a few photos that made it seem like everything was perfectly fine.
28:06 Vanessa Richardson? Both were from Arches National Park near Moab, where they'd been earlier that week. In one post, Gabby shared a story about seeing the park's most famous landmark, the Delicate Arch. The other had a photograph of her and Brian kissing. It was like the entire traffic stop had never happened.
28:26 Tristin Engels? In general, people lie by omission on social media for a few reasons. And the most common reasons are: they want to avoid judgment or vulnerability; they want to manage their identity through social perception; they feel the pressure of social comparison; and there's always denial. When it comes to Gabby, the stakes were higher. She was likely operating under fear of consequences, internalized blame, wanting to maintain hope for their relationship. But also, she was vlogging her adventures. She was hoping to gain a following and paid partnerships. And so, in doing that, she was also holding on to some aspects of independence for her own survival. And she really wanted that to be successful.
29:09 Tristin Engels? She wanted to become a van life influencer. And that also plays a role in what she chooses to post, the tone of her posts, and her overall goal.
29:20 Vanessa Richardson? After that, Gabby made sure to only share the highlights. Her next post was a week later. No location was given, but you can see mountains and a blue sky in the background. Unlike her previous posts, which contained long, detailed stories, this caption was one sentence long. It was a short rant about littering and said next to nothing about her journey with Brian. The second post, on August 25th, 2021, showed her holding a crocheted pumpkin in front of a butterfly mural in the small town of Ogden, Utah. It was the last post she ever made. Two days later, on August 27th,
30:02 Vanessa Richardson? Gabby and Brian caught the attention of some folks once again. Nina Angelo and Matt England were on their way to a wedding when they saw the couple inside a Tex-Mex restaurant in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. According to Nina, Brian was screaming at the hostess. Meanwhile, Gabby was in tears, apologizing to the staff for his behavior.
30:23 Tristin Engels? This is another example of Gabby trying to take on the emotional labor and de-escalate Brian.
30:29 Vanessa Richardson? And Nina thought it looked like Gabby was at her breaking point. But the argument never became physical, and before long Nina and Matt put it out of their minds. But, almost a month later, Nina recognized a face on social media. The young woman was pretty, blonde, and... missing. It took Nina a minute to place her, but then she realized the person she'd seen at that restaurant in Wyoming was Gabby Petito. And Nina may have been one of the last people to ever see her... alive.
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34:04 Vanessa Richardson? At the end of August 2021, 22-year-old Gabby Petito had been on the road with her 23-year-old fiance, Brian Laundrie, for almost two months. While everything seemed like rainbows and sunshine on her Instagram, in reality, the couple's relationship was at a breaking point. And back home, people were starting to realize something might be wrong. By the second week of September, Gabby's mom, Nicole Schmidt, hadn't spoken to her daughter in two weeks, which was unusual. Typically, they talked at least every other day, sometimes more. But even though they were close, Gabby hadn't shared everything with Nicole, not the full truth about the incident with the police
34:49 Vanessa Richardson? and not about the scene at the restaurant. Still, she did tell Nicole something no one else knew. According to Nicole, Gabby had texted her saying she'd spoken to Brian, and she was thinking about paying for his steak in the van. Gabby was thinking about continuing the journey alone. When Nicole asked her daughter if she and Brian were breaking up, Gabby said no. She just thought she could make more money as a solo female van lifer. Nicole never got to find out whether or not that was true. The last time she saw her daughter's face was on August 24, 2021, when Gabby FaceTimed her.
35:30 Vanessa Richardson? She told Nicole they were headed to Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming. Later, Nicole said Gabby sounded excited and happy for their next destination.
35:42 Vanessa Richardson? Five days later, on August 30th, Nicole received a strange text from Gabby's phone. It said, "Can you help Stan? I just keep getting his voicemails and missed calls." Nicole was confused. Stan was Gabby's grandfather, but she never called him by his first name, and things only got stranger from there. A second text said there was no service in Yosemite, even though Gabby had originally stated they were headed to Yellowstone. At first, Nicole brushed off the odd wording and the change of plans. But as time went on, the bizarre messages turned into complete silence. As the days went by without hearing from her daughter, Nicole began to suspect
36:26 Vanessa Richardson? that Gabby hadn't sent those texts at all, though for the moment, she kept her fears to herself.
36:33 Tristin Engels? Let's talk about how Nicole was brushing off some of these things. Her mindset here is not any different than what most people would go through in her position. At a basic human level, when we are faced with signs that something may be wrong with a loved one, there are a few psychological tools that enter the picture. First, there's cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance happens when we hold two opposing beliefs or emotions at the same time, and our brains instinctively try to reduce the discomfort of that internal conflict. For example, one side of Nicole is saying, "Something is wrong. There are red flags. This could be catastrophic." While the other side is clinging to the belief that she is okay, because the alternative is just so uncomfortable.
37:18 Tristin Engels? So Nicole would instinctively want to rationalize it so she can believe in something less distressing. Second, there is a need for hope. It's a coping mechanism, but it's also a survival tool. And lastly, Nicole wanted to trust the narrative that Gabby was giving her. If Gabby is posting photos that present her as happy and having a great experience, it's much easier for Nicole or any parent in her position to accept that than to doubt it. Parents in these situations often cling to optimism because they're seeking to protect themselves from an unbearable truth or reality.
37:53 Vanessa Richardson? While Nicole was grappling with the strange texts from Gabby's phone, there were even more suspicious things happening out west. On August 29th, the day before the text message about Stan, a woman in Wyoming named Norma Jean Jalovec was on her way to an evening church service. During her drive, she stopped to pick up a hitchhiker in Grand Teton National Park. Later, she described him as mid-20s with body odor. She reasoned he'd been out in the wilderness for a few days. That would have made sense, since he asked Norma to drop him off at a campsite. According to Norma, her passenger was perfectly friendly for most of the ride, chatting about how he and his fiance were staying in their van and the travel blog she'd started.
38:38 Vanessa Richardson? But when they arrived at the campsite, the young man's demeanor changed. He seemed jumpy and tried to exit Norma's car before it even stopped moving, like he didn't want her to see where he was staying. Like the couple at the Tex-Mex restaurant, Norma didn't think much of it until a few weeks later, when Brian Laundrie's face was all over the news, and she realized he was that strange passenger. Later, it would become clear that Norma wasn't the only person who gave Brian a ride that day, and she wasn't the only one who'd noticed his strange behavior either. Around 5:30 PM on August 29th, right before Norma gave him a ride,
39:20 Vanessa Richardson? Brian had been picked up by a woman named Miranda Baker and her boyfriend. Miranda said that when they first picked him up, Brian offered them $200 for a very short trip, which struck the couple as odd. It was a lot of money, and it wasn't like they asked him to pay them. And when they approached their destination, Brian freaked out. He asked Miranda to pull over and said he was going to find someone else to hitchhike with. She let him out of her Jeep, and when she looked over a few seconds later, he was gone.
39:54 Vanessa Richardson? That same afternoon, Brian made a call to his parents back in Florida. According to his mother, Roberta, the call started innocuously enough, but then when they went to say goodbye, his tone changed and he became noticeably upset. After they hung up, Roberta felt like something was wrong, so she asked her husband, Chris, to call Brian back. And when their son answered, he was frantic. He said that he might need a lawyer. He didn't explain why, but he did say, quote, "Gabby's gone."
40:29 Tristin Engels? Brian's behavior after Gabby's death gives us an insight. Let's start with his behavior while hitchhiking. He was reportedly calm, talkative, and upbeat. That's not unlike how he was with the police when they were pulled over right after witnesses saw him hitting her. But then he became agitated when he got to the campsite. It's also similar to his phone call with his parents. At first, everything seemed normal, and as he was about to end the call, he alluded to something being wrong. He became agitated and a bit frantic. This suggests emotional compartmentalization. It's a defense mechanism where a person separates their emotions from their awareness of their actions to avoid discomfort. He's not behaving like someone in the immediate aftermath of a murder.
41:13 Tristin Engels? He was behaving like someone who had walled off what had happened, at least temporarily, in order to focus on self-preservation. This is not uncommon in certain personality types, especially in individuals with traits like narcissism, antisocial tendencies, or high emotional detachment. The goal becomes not processing the harm they caused, but escaping consequences as quickly and as cleanly as possible. And given what we know about his relationship with his mother, specifically that letter where she quite literally stated she would shield him from any and all consequences, no matter his actions, this behavior actually isn't surprising. But it's definitely unnerving, and it tells us a lot about his inability to tolerate certain emotions.
41:56 Vanessa Richardson? After that phone call, Brian's parents stayed quiet, and they definitely didn't say anything to Gabby's family. As far as they knew, Gabby was in Wyoming and mostly out of cellphone range. But by the 11th of September, her mom Nicole hadn't heard from Gabby in over two weeks. She called the local police to officially report Gabby missing, and said the last she'd heard, her daughter and Brian were camping in Wyoming. Since the van they were traveling in was registered in Gabby's name, it was an easy place for the police to start. Hopefully, if they could find the van, they could find Gabby. A few hours later, Nicole heard back from the police.
42:37 Vanessa Richardson? They'd located the van, but it was nowhere near Wyoming. It was parked in front of Chris and Roberta Laundrie's house in Northport, Florida, and had been there for the last 10 days since September 1st. That night, local police knocked on the Laundrie's front door, but were shooed away by Brian's father, Chris. From his doorway, Brian's father said he had gotten a lawyer and would not be saying anything to law enforcement. However, he did confirm one detail. Brian had indeed come home to Florida, and he'd returned alone.
43:30 Vanessa Richardson? Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time as we finish our deep dive into the disappearance and murder of Gabby Petito.
43:38 Tristin Engels? Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on Instagram at Killer Minds. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.
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44:14 Vanessa Richardson? Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Laurie Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Kemp, Sheila Patterson, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.
44:44 Vanessa Richardson? If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.
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