SERIAL KILLER: "The Baton Rouge Killer" Pt. 2

Driven by feelings of deep insecurity, Derrick Todd Lee lashed out by stalking and killing women throughout southern Louisiana. For years, he evaded the authorities -- but when the police realized they'd made an error, it wasn't long before Todd was firmly in their sights. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original. Follow us on social media, @crimehouse for more true crime content.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  Rejection is tough. Whether we're turned down for a date or passed up for a job, the sting of disappointment is hard to forget. But rejection is also a part of life. We learn how to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. At least, most of us do. Derek Todd Lee couldn't handle rejection, especially from women. Instead of moving on, he became obsessed. And once the obsession got too strong, Todd wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

• 1:30Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes, the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed. And for more true crime stories that all happened this week in history, check out Crime House: The Show. Each episode covers multiple cases unified by the same theme,

• 2:13Vanessa Richardson?

  so every week you get something a little different. Here at Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And to enhance your Killer Minds listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting Crime House bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 2:51Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her dive into these killers' minds as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.

• 3:03Vanessa Richardson?

  This is the second of two episodes on Derek Todd Lee, otherwise known as the Baton Rouge Serial Killer. Last week, we explored how Todd compulsively stalked women in the Baton Rouge area in the late 90s and early 2000s, and how he gained his victims' trust before channeling his hypersexuality into violence. Today, we'll examine the confidence Todd gained from going undetected, his ensuing rampage, and his desperate attempt to escape the law.

• 3:35Tristin Engels?

  I'm also going to be talking about things like how Derek Todd Lee's reaction to stress likely fed into his violent streak, how his MO shifted from beating women to stabbing them and finding new ways to dispose of their bodies, and his level of detachment or denial when the clock ran out.

• 3:54Vanessa Richardson?

  And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer? Ever since Derek Todd Lee was a kid, he had an unhealthy obsession with watching women. Growing up in the 1980s, he satisfied that urge by hiding in trees and peeping on them through their windows. But as Todd got older, his fixations became darker, and by the time he was an adult, they'd turned violent. In September of 2001, 32-year-old Todd stalked and killed his second confirmed victim, 41-year-old Gina Wilson-Green.

• 4:37Vanessa Richardson?

  Gina had been a student at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge. Just like with his previous victim, 28-year-old Randy Mabruer, Todd broke into Gina's house, then sexually assaulted her before killing her. But he carried out the two women's murders in very different ways. Todd had violently beaten Randy and left her house covered in blood. He disposed of her body somewhere unknown, and by September 2001, investigators still hadn't found her. However, in the case of Gina Wilson-Green, Todd strangled her, then left her in her bed. But that wasn't the only thing that was different about Gina's murder.

• 5:21Vanessa Richardson?

  Before he left her house, Todd stole her cellphone and wallet.

• 5:26Tristin Engels?

  Most serial killers take belongings from their victims as mementos or trophies, which they use to relive the experience. Todd chose items that were very personal to Gina. With the cellphone, I wouldn't be surprised if he took time going through it, looking at call logs or text messages, listening to her voicemails, and maybe even her own prerecorded greeting, all to maintain a connection with her before disposing of it. But the wallet, that's valuable in a different way. It's a very personal item. It has her identification and likely other things, maybe pictures, items that very few have had access to other than Gina. A wallet isn't something that is typically shared, like jewelry or clothing might be.

• 6:10Tristin Engels?

  So the wallet is very personal to Gina, making it more valuable to Todd. I imagine he would look at her ID cards while also listening to her recordings from her phone. This is yet another aspect of Todd that makes him different than most serial killers, because most serial killers keep these mementos until they're caught, whereas Todd disposed of them rather soon after killing her. Remember, Todd is Also a voyeur and a stalker. He hyper fixates on his targets, meaning the object of his fixation is all he cares about until a new one is established. So it's very likely that he disposed of these items of Gina's after he got what he

• 6:53Tristin Engels?

  needed from them and then had transferred his fixation onto someone else. Now, he is obsessed with getting gratification from a new target. And so he can then reject the previous one, being Gina, by disposing of her things like this. It's also possible that he took these items from Gina specifically because he was not able to violently take her life the way he normally did. So he may have needed to fantasize about doing that, using these items before he disposed them.

• 7:24Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever Todd's reasons were for taking Gina's things, he didn't keep them for long. Three days later, officers from the Baton Rouge PD found her belongings behind an abandoned warehouse. It was the same spot where the body of a woman named Connie Warner had been found after she was murdered in 1992. Investigators relayed the news to David Mack McDavid, a detective for the nearby Zachary Police Department. Mack had been on Todd's trail for years. He believed Todd was responsible for the deaths of all three women, although he hadn't been able to prove it yet. Connie and Randy's murders were in Mack's jurisdiction, but Gina's death was another

• 8:07Vanessa Richardson?

  department's responsibility, and they were focused on other suspects. So there was nothing Mack could do to help unless there was a development in one of his own cases. That meant Todd was still at large, but just because he'd gotten away with murder for the time being, didn't mean he had it easy. For the past few years, Todd had been living large. His wife Jackie had won a quarter million dollar settlement after her father died, and Todd was in charge of the money, but he'd blown through it. And the costs were piling up because by September 2001, the same month Todd murdered Gina Green, he and Jackie had a second child. Todd couldn't handle the stress of it all.

• 8:52Vanessa Richardson?

  Just three days after he murdered Gina, he and Jackie got into a heated argument. At some point, Todd exploded and put his hands on Jackie. He reportedly grabbed her, twisted her arms behind her back, and hit her on the head.

• 9:09Tristin Engels?

  So everyone experiences stress or anger. It's a normal experience. But what makes it abnormal, obviously, is how we manage, or rather mismanage, that stress or anger. Todd lacks emotional regulation and impulse control. He's got alcohol abuse. And we've already covered that substance abuse. Combined with his other pathology, just really elevates his risk of violence even more. And Todd is quite self-centered, but also controlling. And that pattern has been evident in his marriage. We saw this with how he chose to spend the money his wife inherited. He's continuously unfaithful to her, and he prioritizes what he wants over anyone or anything else, including his work. He often leaves his wife and his child at home in order to see other women,

• 9:54Tristin Engels?

  go to bars to drink, and of course stalk and kill victims. So it's very likely that he sees having another child as a threat to this autonomy.

• 10:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Do serial killers tend to be abusive partners? Or do they try to hide the violent side of themselves?

• 10:09Tristin Engels?

  Serial killers who are married and have families do this in order to blend into society. It's the mask of sanity. It's really hard to know for sure if they ever genuinely loved or cared about their families outside of the love for what they helped provide for them. Dennis Rader is a great example. He once described his family as, quote, "social contacts and pawns." They're chameleons, and they use their family for personal gain. As a result, they do often make abusive partners. They may not all be physically or even sexually abusive to their wives or children, but they certainly will exhibit psychological abuse because they are highly manipulative individuals. They need power and control,

• 10:52Tristin Engels?

  and they can exert that through lying and emotional abuse. There's definitely evidence of this with Jackie because she's now financially Isolated and dependent on Todd, making it hard for her to leave. He's controlling her to the point that in order for her to survive, she ignores his behavior and she's just focusing on her child. She stopped questioning Todd because likely if she did, she would face more abuse from him. So instead, she acquiesces to what he wants for her own survival.

• 11:23Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, we don't know if Todd had ever abused Jackie like this before, but her injuries were bad enough that afterward, she went to the West Feliciano Sheriff's Office and filed a complaint against him. He was arrested, but didn't go to jail. If Todd felt bad about the incident, he didn't show it. He kept drinking and slacking off at work, and four months after he hit Jackie, Todd was fired yet again. To cope with the embarrassment, he took back control in the only way he knew how, by stalking and peeping on women. By this point, Todd had killed at least two women and gone after one more.

• 12:03Vanessa Richardson?

  And the next woman he fixated on was 21-year-old Geraldine Bar de Soto. Geraldine was married to her college sweetheart, Darren. The couple lived near LSU in Baton Rouge, where Geraldine was taking some classes. In January 2002, three days after he lost his job, Todd pulled up outside Geraldine's house. It was just before noon when he knew her husband wasn't home. He knocked on her door, and when she opened up, the warm smile on his face showed no hint of his seething rage. He asked Geraldine if he could use her phone, and she welcomed him inside. Once the door was shut, Todd attacked.

• 12:47Vanessa Richardson?

  He beat her with the telephone so badly, he caused visible head wounds. Somehow, Geraldine was able to fight back. She scratched Todd repeatedly and eventually wrestled out of his grip. Then she stumbled down the hall and into the bedroom, where her husband kept his shotgun. She grabbed it just in time, turned it at Todd, and fired. But the gun wasn't loaded. Todd was furious. He pried the gun from Geraldine's hands, then pulled out a knife and stabbed her to death. He left her body where it lay in the doorframe and walked out of the house.

• 13:30Tristin Engels?

  Once you start to think there may be a pattern for Todd, he changes his methods. He might at least in part be doing this to confuse the police so they're not connecting him to any additional crimes or getting closer to identifying him. But also, as I mentioned before, changing methods isn't entirely uncommon for serial killers. However, with Todd, at first I thought he was intentionally choosing single mothers. But then Gina was not a single mother. And now there's Geraldine, who is not single, nor is she a mother. This makes me think that his victims are randomly chosen. It's as if he sees a woman, determines that she is vulnerable, available, and desirable,

• 14:12Tristin Engels?

  fixates until he can complete his attack cycle. And it seems that prior to these attacks, he is experiencing some level of stress in his life, whether it's arguments with his mistress, Cassandra, stress in his marriage, or welcoming a new child. He's displacing that rage in his killings. A lot of serial killers tend to be triggered by stress regardless of their motivation. Stress can cause them to behave impulsively or compulsively.

• 14:42Vanessa Richardson?

  Unlike his previous victims, Todd didn't sexually assault Geraldine. What might this suggest about his mentality or emotions at the time of the killing?

• 14:52Tristin Engels?

  Another change, right?

• 14:53Vanessa Richardson?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Tristin Engels?

  At this point, Todd has not shown any signs of necrophilia. So his pattern has been to sexually assault his victims before killing them. And in this case, I suspect he had every intention of sexually assaulting Geraldine. But because she was not subdued by his attack and was able to get access to a firearm, that interfered with his routine and his plan. If we recall from episode one, the last time someone interfered with his routine or encroached on his territory, he attacked them with an axe. So it appears that unexpected events like this enrage him because they threaten his control. In this instance, in order to regain control, Todd had to stop Geraldine before she could stop him. And as a result,

• 15:38Tristin Engels?

  he ended up killing her before he could sexually assault her.

• 15:43Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever motivated Todd, the change in pattern once again kept the police off his trail. In fact, they went down the wrong path entirely. Their initial suspect was her husband Darren, who was known to abuse Jerilyn verbally, emotionally, and physically. Eventually Darren's name was cleared, but that would take a while. In the meantime, Todd continued stalking women in the neighborhoods surrounding LSU's campus. Charlotte Murray Pace was one of those women. She was about 22 years old and earning a master's degree at LSU. On the afternoon of May 31, 2002, almost five months after the murder of Jerilyn

• 16:26Vanessa Richardson?

  Bardasoto, Charlotte was relaxing at home alone when Todd knocked on her door. Just like with Jerilyn, Todd made some excuse to get her to let him in. Then he did the exact same thing he had done before. He hit Charlotte over the head with her phone and beat her relentlessly. She fought back as hard as she could, but Todd overpowered her. He sexually assaulted her, then pulled a screwdriver out from his pocket and stabbed her to death. When he was done, he left her body lying on the floor and walked away. When the authorities arrived at the crime scene, they finally realized what Detective Mac McDavid

• 17:10Vanessa Richardson?

  had suspected for years. There was a serial killer in Baton Rouge.

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• 18:23Speaker 04

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• 18:28Speaker 05

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• 18:32Speaker 04

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• 20:18Vanessa Richardson?

  On May 31st, 2002, 33-year-old Derek Todd Lee murdered his fourth confirmed victim, Charlotte Murray Pace. After seeing the similarities to other crime scenes, the authorities realized there was a serial killer on the loose. And in the summer of 2002, a task force was formed to find him. At least 12 departments were involved, including the Baton Rouge Police Department, the Louisiana State Police, and the FBI. But the task force was missing something crucial: the Zachary Police Department, where Mac McDavid worked. It's not clear why they weren't involved, but without Mac's information, Todd wasn't

• 21:03Vanessa Richardson?

  on the task force's radar. And there was something else getting in the way of catching Todd. There was more than one serial killer active in Baton Rouge at the time, including Shaun Vincent Gillis, who murdered eight women in the area between 1994 and 2004. Gillis's MO was to brutally stab his victims, just like Todd had done to Geraldine Bar de Soto and Charlotte Murray Pace. So the task force may have associated them with Gillis's other victims, making it harder to link the crimes back to Todd.

• 21:39Tristin Engels?

  Serial killers can have more than one motivation. Todd is a serial sexual murderer, and they are, at a minimum, motivated by sexual gratification, obviously. And in general, when we are trying to determine the motives of a serial murderer, we have to look at their behavior at the crime scene. Todd primarily chooses brutal methods of killing, such as beating and stabbing, and this is an indication that he is also motivated by anger. When a serial killer is motivated by anger, that anger is typically directed at a group of people or a demographic. For Todd, that is clearly women. What makes him atypical, though, is that most serial murders are committed

• 22:22Tristin Engels?

  intraracially, meaning within the same race, as opposed to interracially, meaning outside of their same race. So in researching this episode, what I discovered is that it appears that only one of his known victims was black. And this suggests that his anger is directed at women in general, not by specific demographic. But because of that, it also supports the theory that he chooses his women randomly.

• 22:49Vanessa Richardson?

  It's unclear why Todd shifted his MO, but it seems like he was working harder to throw detectives off his scent, and he was going to great lengths to do it. On July 9, 2002, about a month after killing Charlotte Pace, Todd drove 50 miles outside of Baton Rouge to the town of Bro Bridge. It's hard to know what drew him there, but Todd probably first went to Bro Bridge for its annual crawfish festival. But Diane Alexander was what got him to come back. Diane worked at St. Agnes Hospital. She was married and had a son. And when Todd knocked on her door at 11:30 a.m. on the morning of July 9,

• 23:32Vanessa Richardson?

  she was enjoying a quiet morning by herself, listening to some gospel music. Todd made up some excuse to come inside, and the second he stepped through the door, he attacked. He grabbed her by the throat and pushed her to the floor. Then he took out his knife, placed it on the floor beside her, and ordered Diane to take off her underwear. But instead of panicking, she simply replied, "I can't. Your hand is on my throat." Her response rattled Todd. His victims usually fought back, but no one had ever talked back. It made Todd angry. However, his own reaction surprised him.

• 24:16Vanessa Richardson?

  In the past, Todd was aroused by this point. Once he beat his victim enough to subdue them, he sexually assaulted them. But after Diane contradicted him, Todd couldn't get an erection. Humiliated, he started to beat her instead.

• 24:34Tristin Engels?

  Sexual assault is motivated, as we've covered, by a need for power and control. So we have to consider how these feelings may have been challenged in this instance. It's more likely than not that Todd interpreted Diane's remark as critical, and because of that, it threatened his confidence in some way. And once he felt his confidence was threatened, he loses any feeling of power in that situation, and that would then cause him to lose his arousal.

• 25:04Vanessa Richardson?

  We know that in his early life, Todd struggled with being less intelligent than his friends and classmates. Is it possible that just by Diane saying, "I can't, your hand is on my throat," embarrassed him enough to prevent him from being able to get an erection?

• 25:19Tristin Engels?

  Todd likely has an inferiority complex related to his intellect or his cognitive abilities, one that developed from years of likely being compared in some way to his peers. He probably has negative core beliefs associated with his intelligence. So when it's questioned, or it's being pointed out, or even noticed, at least by what he feels, it will trigger feelings of embarrassment or humiliation. This is actually not uncommon for any individual who has had a history of special education, or was diagnosed with a learning disability. Only Todd responds with rage and violence.

• 25:57Vanessa Richardson?

  Thankfully, Diane's reaction had bought her some time. Before Todd could kill Diane, her son's car pulled into the driveway, and Todd ran out the back door. Diane's son called for help, and she fortunately survived Todd's attack. And although she didn't recognize her assailant, she did get a good look at him. She helped officers create a detailed sketch of the man's face, Todd's face, but no one in Bro Bridge knew who he was. He didn't match any known criminals in their area. The news didn't reach the serial killer task force back in Baton Rouge either. Even if it had, it wouldn't have helped,

• 26:39Vanessa Richardson?

  because they believed the South Louisiana serial killer was white, while Derek Todd Lee was black. There doesn't seem to be one specific thing that led investigators to this conclusion. People have speculated it was because most serial killers do tend to be white men.

• 26:57Tristin Engels?

  And also, as I mentioned previously, most serial killers choose victims within their own race. And Todd was black and most of his victims were white. And this is something that the FBI profiler assigned to this case was likely aware of. But Todd wasn't doing that. And this likely contributed to a confirmation bias among law enforcement, resulting in this very serious error.

• 27:20Vanessa Richardson?

  And in this case, the stereotype opened the doors for Derek Todd Lee to continue his killing spree. And he didn't wait long to strike again. On July 12, 2002, just three days after attacking Diane Alexander, he went after a woman named Pam Kinnamore.

• 27:40Tristin Engels?

  Serial killers tend to increase the frequency of their attacks for a number of reasons. And the most common is thrill-seeking, or a growing need for power and control, which can be reinforced and emboldened the more they get away with it. And it can also be because they want to relieve intense psychological pressure or stress. We know in the past, most of his killings have been in response or reaction to a stressor, a fight with his mistress or wife, unexpected events, expecting a child. If that's a pattern, then it's possible and likely that Todd has an increase in pressure or stress following the experience he had with Diane. He may be obsessing over that experience and believes

• 28:22Tristin Engels?

  that in order to alleviate that, he has to correct that experience and engage in another murder.

• 28:29Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, it wasn't just Todd's urge to kill that was changing. When he attacked 44-year-old Pam Kinnamore, he changed his approach once more. Todd had been watching her for a long time. He knew that the antique shop she owned was located about 15 miles outside of Baton Rouge. He also knew that Pam usually left the store at around 9:30 PM, and that her husband came home around 11:30 PM, which gave Todd the perfect window to strike. That night, Todd watched Pam arrive home. After she went inside, he noticed she'd left her keys in the door. He turned the knob and walked right in.

• 29:11Vanessa Richardson?

  He followed the sound of a bathtub faucet up the stairs and into Pam's bedroom. Todd could hear her in the en suite bathroom. He burst through the door and attacked. He beat her badly, but he stopped himself before killing her. Instead, he dragged her out of the house and into the front seat of his white pickup truck. He drove for about 20 minutes before reaching an overpass that ran over swampland in an area known as Whiskey Bay. He pulled his truck off the road and went underneath the bridge. Then he took Pam out of the truck and sexually assaulted her there before stabbing her to death.

• 29:55Vanessa Richardson?

  He covered her body with some nearby brush, but just barely. He knew that fishermen frequented Whiskey Bay, so it wouldn't take long for someone to find her.

• 30:06Tristin Engels?

  In the past, when Todd removed the body from the home, he went to great lengths to hide it. They still have never found Randy's body. And with the exception of Gina, whom he left in her bed and covered her with a blanket, Pam is the only other victim we know of thus far that he has been careless with when it comes to covering his tracks. In this case, he's intentionally leaving her body in the open, knowing it will be found rather quickly. And it's as if he's doing it to instigate investigators, or maybe even attempting to confuse them.

• 30:39Vanessa Richardson?

  Is it possible he was trying to show off in some way?

• 30:42Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, it's certainly possible, but why? And why now? I wonder if it has to do with the fact that this is the first victim after his experience with Diane, where he was nearly caught by her husband. It's as if he's saying, if anyone's going to catch me, it's going to be because I allowed it. I was in control. Like he's taking the power back that he feels he may have lost during that experience with Diane. It could also be an increased need for stimulation or thrill, and towing the line with police would certainly provide that. But of course, only Todd knows the real reason why he did this.

• 31:20Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though Todd made it easy for the authorities to find Pam Kennamore's body, they still weren't able to connect the crime back to him. The night she was killed, Pam's husband returned home to find the bloody scene and his wife missing. He notified police, who put out a missing person alert. Soon, a woman called in saying that around 11:00 PM on the night of July 12th, she'd noticed a white pickup truck driving erratically down Interstate 12 towards Whiskey Bay. There was a woman in the passenger seat who looked distressed. The caller didn't get the truck's plates, but she was almost certain the driver was a white male.

• 32:01Tristin Engels?

  And this is why eyewitness testimony is not the most reliable form of evidence, even if it is the most persuasive to a jury. It's subject to unconscious memory distortions and biases, in addition to misinterpretations due to visual obstructions such as distance, lighting, or fast-moving objects.

• 32:21Vanessa Richardson?

  Then, on July 16th, after Pam had been missing for four days, a survey crew found her body on the embankment, just like Todd wanted. The man notified the East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff's Office, which was part of the multi-agency task force. Officers arrived at the embankment and inspected the scene. Based on the state of Pam's body, it was clear that whoever the killer was, they were also likely responsible for the deaths of Gina Wilson-Green, Geraldine Barde Soto, and Charlotte Murray Pace. They amped up their search efforts, collecting close to 1,200 DNA samples from white men in the city of Baton Rouge.

• 33:06Vanessa Richardson?

  Of course, none of these samples would lead them to the killer. Todd once hid under the cover of darkness and dense foliage. Now, as a full-blown serial killer, he hid under the cover of false leads. But he didn't realize that he'd been leaving a trail of breadcrumbs all along, and soon, someone was going to catch up.

• 33:36Vanessa Richardson?

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• 36:03Vanessa Richardson?

  By July 2002, investigators in Baton Rouge realized there was a serial killer in their area. However, they were on the wrong track in their efforts to catch 33-year-old Derek Todd Lee. After killing his sixth victim, Pam Kinnamore, Todd had gotten away with murder once again. But despite how invincible he may have felt, he took a four-month hiatus from killing.

• 36:31Tristin Engels?

  It's actually not uncommon for serial killers to take a hiatus. And when it does occur, it typically is because there is some life event or life change that has happened. We know that Todd was expecting another child. So it's quite possible that his child was born during this time, or he was preparing for the child's arrival during this time, and that forced him to take a break from his killings. Another common reason for a hiatus is a jail or prison sentence, and that's a forced hiatus. It could also be due to fear of getting caught, especially when law enforcement is ramping up their investigation or using the media for assistance. Since it's possible that he was toying with police

• 37:13Tristin Engels?

  when he disposed of Diane's body, that may have pushed his comfort limits and subsequently forced him to take a break, or that gave him such a thrill, he's been sated for a period of time.

• 37:27Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though he went quiet for a few months, Todd's urge to kill was as potent as ever. And in November of 2002, he decided it was time to track down his next target. He drove out to a cemetery in the town of Lafayette, about 50 miles from Baton Rouge. It was close to the town of Bro Bridge, where Diane Alexander lived, so he knew the area well. A 23-year-old Army soldier named Tranisha Denay Colom, Denay for short, had been visiting that cemetery for the last few weeks, ever since her mother passed away. 34-year-old Todd had seen her there many times, stalking her from the shadowy trees. Late in the afternoon

• 38:11Vanessa Richardson?

  on November 21st, he was there, waiting for her. He snuck up behind Danae, subdued her, then dragged her to his truck. He drove about 20 miles to a wooded area where he sexually assaulted and killed her. When he was done, he left Danae's body in the woods. She was missing for two days before a hunter found her. The same police department that had responded to the attack on Diane Alexander was brought in to investigate, but they didn't make the connection because they thought they were looking for two different men. Remember, Diane had given an accurate description of Todd, so they knew what he looked like,

• 38:54Vanessa Richardson?

  and someone got a good look at Todd the day Danae went missing too. Just like with Pam Kinnamore, someone saw Danae in Todd's truck, but they described the driver as a man who was "tan," which didn't match up with Diane's description. Not to mention, the detectives on these cases weren't part of the larger task force, so they didn't even know they had a serial killer on their hands. So, once again, Todd was in the clear. He let another few months pass before making his next move, but this time, he decided to hit closer to home.

• 39:33Vanessa Richardson?

  On March 4, 2003, Todd broke into the home of Carrie Lynn Yoder, a 26-year-old PhD student at LSU in Baton Rouge. Like he'd done with his past few victims, he beat her, then put her in his truck. He even drove back to Whiskey Bay, the same place where he'd disposed of Pam Kinnamore's body, and after he killed her, he left her body there. Carrie was Todd's seventh known murder victim, and because she went missing in Baton Rouge, the serial killer task force was in charge of investigating her death. Fortunately, just a few days beforehand, they'd started to wonder if they were on

• 40:18Vanessa Richardson?

  the wrong track. It's not clear exactly why, but they realized the serial killer might not be white. So they sent DNA samples from some of the victims' bodies to a lab in Florida. This lab had the technology to analyze DNA and determine the person's ethnic background. On March 7th, three days after Carrie Yoder went missing, they got the results. According to the lab, the man who'd raped and killed all of their victims so far was 85% African and 15% Native American. The task force was shocked, the killer wasn't white, he was black.

• 41:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Carrie's body was found a week later, and now investigators were looking in the right direction. Officers compiled the names of several black men in the Baton Rouge area who had a history of sexual misconduct and arrests. Within a few weeks, Derek Todd Lee's name popped up, and the task force realized that Detective Mac McDavid may have been right all along. On May 6th, 2003, two months after Todd killed Carrie Yoder, detectives went out to his house. When they arrived, Todd looked at them as though nothing was out of the ordinary. He politely invited them inside.

• 41:46Tristin Engels?

  Todd's unnervingly calm and natural attitude toward detectives can be explained by a number of things. Firstly, he may suspect why they are there, but he doesn't really know yet. Serial killing has not been the only criminal activity that he has been involved in. He's also been domestically abusive to his wife and his mistress. He's been arrested for burglary and voyeurism, all of which he has had very minor consequences for. It's possible, due to arrogance, he believed that they were there for one of those things. More importantly, he is not unfamiliar with interacting with law enforcement. He's been arrested many times or had encounters with law enforcement many times, some of which he navigated. Without detainment.

• 42:31Tristin Engels?

  He served time in jail or prison where he is surrounded by correctional staff 24/7. He's also very charming and manipulative, skills that likely became stronger during his detainments. Todd likely knows how to interact with law enforcement in ways that serve him. And I've actually seen this personally from years of working in correctional settings. Incarcerated individuals have very little to do, so they watch everyone and they learn. They monitor staff movements, they listen for personal information, they get a sense of their attitudes and beliefs, and then they'll test their limits, particularly those incarcerated who have antisocial personality disorder like Todd. They test different approaches with staff and then they determine who they can become

• 43:14Tristin Engels?

  over-familiar with for personal gain. Additionally, his method of killing largely involved using his charm to disarm his victims so that they would let him into their home. Although this is a role reversal, he could still be using those same tactics to maintain a sense of control over the situation while he still has it.

• 43:34Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, the officers weren't fooled by Todd's cool demeanor. They asked him to submit to a DNA test, and that's when he started to crack. Todd tried to conceal his panic, but he knew he'd be caught when the results came through. As soon as the officers left, Todd began plotting. When his wife Jackie got home later that evening, he gave her a sob story about how police were wrongfully targeting him, and she believed him. Once he knew she was on his side, Todd told her his plan: he was going to run. The very next day, Todd made his way about 500 miles to Atlanta, Georgia. He got a long construction job and lived out of a motel.

• 44:19Vanessa Richardson?

  The task force hadn't gotten Todd's DNA results yet, so there was no media coverage about the fact that he was a suspected serial killer. He even started making friends with the motel's other long-term residents. They had barbecues, and Todd hosted Bible studies.

• 44:37Tristin Engels?

  Todd's behavior here is his attempt to be a chameleon. We know he can be successful at this because he's cunning, manipulative and charming, and it's consistently worked for him. But more importantly, he's on the run. So to remain under police radar, he needs to ensure he does not draw any suspicion. He is the new guy in town, and with that comes questions and curiosity, especially if he's living in a motel community where the residents are already connected and neighborly with one another. So to navigate that curiosity, he needs to establish some form of identity. And clearly, he's choosing to present as the "normal, hardworking man of faith." If he did not participate in those barbecues with his neighbors

• 45:21Tristin Engels?

  or play into the role of this identity he's cultivated, and instead, he's choosing to isolate or keep odd hours like he has been doing, then he would be noticed by that community, and not necessarily in a good way. It's important for his survival that he establish relationships immediately.

• 45:41Vanessa Richardson?

  Could it be possible he's still in denial about getting caught?

• 45:45Tristin Engels?

  It is very possible. And I believe that it's his arrogance that has him believing that he could possibly outsmart the police the way he has been, even if they are successful in connecting him to the murders through DNA evidence. If he didn't believe that he could outsmart them, then why bother running? And why bother establishing a new life and community in Atlanta the way he's clearly been doing?

• 46:07Vanessa Richardson?

  For whatever reason, Todd thought that running two states away would be enough to prevent investigators from finding him. In reality, this was the beginning of the end. The task force reached out to other jurisdictions to get a full list of Todd's potential victims, which meant Detective Mac McDavid was finally able to add Connie Warner and Randy McBrewer to the list. And when the DNA test came back, it was confirmed. Todd was the serial killer they'd been looking for. Now, all the authorities had to do was find him. They presented Jackie with the evidence. Based with the truth about her husband, she pointed them in Todd's direction.

• 46:51Vanessa Richardson?

  She told the investigators he was in Atlanta, but she didn't know exactly where. To whittle down his location, they started talking to everyone Todd knew. One of these people was his longtime mistress, Cassandra Green. Cassandra didn't know where Todd was, but in a twist of fate, he called her while the police were in her home. Cassandra played it cool, and Todd didn't say anything revealing. But once they hung up, she showed her visitors the area code of the number Todd had called her from. Investigators immediately made their way to Atlanta, where they met with the US Marshal's Service.

• 47:33Vanessa Richardson?

  It didn't take long to track Todd down, and at 8:45 PM on May 27th, two days after the task force got his DNA results, he was arrested and brought back to Louisiana. During his interrogation, Todd came close to confessing, but officers couldn't actually get him to say the words, which made their job a little harder. Even though they had rock-solid DNA evidence against him, the tests were still new and weren't commonly used as evidence in murder trials yet. If the jury didn't understand the science well enough, Todd could go free. Thankfully, the authorities had enough evidence to get Todd indicted for killing two of his

• 48:18Vanessa Richardson?

  victims, Geraldine Bar de Soto and Charlotte Murray Pace. And in the end, the DNA evidence proved to be enough. In August of 2004, 35-year-old Todd was found guilty of second-degree murder in the case of Geraldine Bar de Soto, and was given an automatic life sentence. In October 2004, he was found guilty of first-degree murder for killing Charlotte Murray Pace. He got another automatic life sentence, as well as the death penalty.

• 48:55Vanessa Richardson?

  With that, the prosecutor's job was done. There was no need to try and convict him of the other murders. Todd had already received the harshest possible punishment, and his victims' families could finally start to move on, knowing their loved one's killer had been brought to justice. In the end, Todd only spent 12 years in prison. He never made it to his execution. He died in 2016 of heart disease. While still on death row, he was 47 years old. For years, Derek Todd Lee used charm and deception to brutally attack innocent women. But in all his arrogance,

• 49:39Vanessa Richardson?

  he left behind the one thing he couldn't lie about: his DNA. And that was all it took to bring his reign of terror to an end.

• 50:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer.

• 50:09Tristin Engels?

  Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on Instagram at @killerminds. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 50:29Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content.

• 50:46Vanessa Richardson?

  Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Camp, Sarah Tardif, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 51:17Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.