SERIAL KILLER: "The Baton Rouge Killer" Pt. 1

In the late 1990s and early 2000s, serial killer Derrick Todd Lee stalked women throughout southern Louisiana. At first, he liked to watch them through their windows. But it wasn't long before his desires became more violent... and he turned to murder. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original. Follow us on social media, @crimehouse for more true crime content.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  From a young age, we're taught to not be afraid of the dark, to overcome our primal fears of what might be lurking in the shadows just out of view. Most of the time, this advice makes sense. There's nothing inherently evil about darkness. Just because the sun is down, it doesn't mean we're suddenly in danger. But sometimes, it's okay to be scared, because there are people out there like Derek Todd Lee, who lurk in the night, watching, waiting, biding their time until the perfect moment, and then they strike.

• 1:31Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes, the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Killer Minds, formerly known as Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday and Thursday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and murderers. The show is still the same, the name just changed. And if you're interested in more true crime stories from this week in history, check out Crime House, the show. Every episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme, so every week, you get something a little different.

• 2:17Vanessa Richardson?

  At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And to enhance your Killer Minds listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting Crime House bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 2:51Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject's stories, I'll be helping her dive into these killer's minds as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.

• 3:03Vanessa Richardson?

  Before we get into the story, you should know it contains depictions of stalking, sexual assault, and murder. Listener discretion is advised. This is the first of two episodes on Derek Todd Lee, otherwise known as the Baton Rouge Serial Killer. From 1998 to 2003, Todd stalked women throughout Louisiana, obsessively lurking outside their homes. And once their guard was down, he attacked. Today, we'll examine the early signs of Todd's hypersexuality and stress-induced violence. We'll track the escalation of his behavior and his transformation into a murderer.

• 3:45Tristin Engels?

  And along the way, I'll be talking about things like the risk factors that existed during his developmental years, Todd's obsession with spying on women, and the hyperfixations that led him to commit murder.

• 4:00Vanessa Richardson?

  Next time, we'll talk about how Todd's unstoppable urges drove him to an all-out murder spree, along with his desperate attempt to escape once investigators finally caught up to him. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?

• 4:23Vanessa Richardson?

  Derek Todd Lee, or Todd for short, was born on November 5, 1968. He grew up in a town called St. Francisville, Louisiana, about 30 miles outside of Baton Rouge. Todd, who was black, didn't have it easy growing up. He was born in a time and place where segregation had yet to be fully eradicated and racism was prevalent. On top of those societal challenges, his mom, Florence, was only 17 when she had him, and she wasn't sure if her boyfriend of two years, Samuel Ruth, was the kind of man she wanted to raise a family with. Samuel was in his late twenties and already had a history of violent and erratic behavior.

• 5:08Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though he was Todd's father, Florence didn't even bother to write his name on the birth certificate. But it seems like she tried to make it work, because they stayed together after Todd was born. They even had another child, a daughter named Tarsha, about a year later. Apparently, the added responsibility made Samuel realize that family life wasn't for him, at least, not this family. Shortly after Tarsha was born, Samuel told Florence he was leaving them to get back together with his ex-wife.

• 5:42Tristin Engels?

  There's a lot here to consider when it comes to Todd's early developmental years. So let's start with the age of his mother, Florence. She was still a teenager when she became a mother, and so her frontal lobe isn't fully developed. And an underdeveloped frontal lobe affects decision-making, problem-solving, impulse control, and emotional regulation. Not to mention, there are higher incidences of postpartum depression with young mothers. And this can put children at an increased risk of negative developmental outcomes, like poor cognitive abilities, lower academic achievement, and increased social and emotional difficulties. There's also a high correlation between young mothers and poor child development, largely

• 6:27Tristin Engels?

  due to socioeconomic limitations. So For example, financial hardships add undue stress on the mother. And in Florence's case, she's not only a young mother of two children, but she's now a single young mother because of paternal abandonment. Also, children with paternal abandonment are at an increased risk of substance abuse, mental health deficits, and behavioral issues. We have to talk about his biological father, Samuel. He has a history of violent and erratic behavior, and this could be an indication of a genetic predisposition to mental illness or criminality. There's a lot of factors here that could negatively affect Todd's development,

• 7:09Tristin Engels?

  and his environment will greatly determine how he can navigate this.

• 7:14Vanessa Richardson?

  Would a child this young even be able to process or even understand what's happening? And can he adjust appropriately?

• 7:22Tristin Engels?

  Todd is likely between, let's say, one and a half to two years old when his father left to return to his ex-wife. So he does not possess the cognitive skills at this point to fully understand the concept or the damages of parental abandonment. But at that age, children are aware, to some degree, of parental dependence, which is why some children at this age begin to exhibit separation anxiety when a parent leaves the room, let alone the home. So parental abandonment is a trauma that can have long-term impacts, and that will vary in each case. But there certainly are ways to improve a child's ability to adapt to that trauma appropriately, such as having a support system, like their existing caregiver,

• 8:07Tristin Engels?

  for example, which would be Florence in this case, having a stable environment, even a therapist. All of those are critical. But we also have to remember, and we would be remiss if we don't touch on this, that this is the late 1960s, and his mother Florence is providing for two small children. She's likely having to work more than one job, which will take a lot of her time and her attention. But she's also a young Black mother, so she will be dealing with systemic racism, lack of access to important resources, social stigma, and economic hardships, especially if she has no familial support. This can all impact how Todd can or cannot adapt to this loss in healthy ways.

• 8:51Vanessa Richardson?

  Thankfully, it wasn't long before Todd got more stability in his life. When he was still young, it's not exactly clear when, his mom met a guy named Coleman Barrow. Coleman opened up a whole new world for Todd and Tarsha. He treated them like his own kids, bringing them to church on Sundays and even buying them a horse to share. Soon, the new family moved just outside of St. Francisville to a modest, peaceful neighborhood known to locals as Lee's Quarters. Todd loved it there. Between being so close to the Gulf and right on the Mississippi River, St. Francisville was lush and full of wildlife. Todd developed a love of bird watching, sitting quietly in trees for hours.

• 9:34Vanessa Richardson?

  But soon, someone discovered there was something else Todd liked to watch in secret. Todd's cousin Ray was about a year older than him and also lived in Lee's Quarters. They spent a lot of time together, playing sports and running around the neighborhood. But when Ray was 10 years old, he heard a rumor about his cousin. Apparently, people in their neighborhood had caught nine-year-old Todd peering into girls' bedroom windows while they undressed. Some people said they even saw him watching his own cousins.

• 10:08Tristin Engels?

  So Todd is at an age where children begin to learn about boundaries and privacy. He's also at an age where we can expect to see sexual curiosity, especially when it comes to the bodies of others. It's always important to tease out normal or curious behavior versus abnormal behavior. And with Todd, which you're describing, Vanessa, is abnormal and possibly transgressive behavior because he appears to understand privacy but is choosing to violate it anyway. And he's not only doing it with family, he's doing it with strangers in the community, in his own neighborhood. This would warrant immediate intervention as it's an early sign of voyeurism, and that's a paraphilia disorder that involves intense sexual arousal from watching

• 10:53Tristin Engels?

  an unsuspecting and non-consenting person who is engaging in private activities, such as using the restroom or fitting room, or in varying states of undress, or while sexually active. This condition, though, cannot be diagnosed until someone is 18, but it typically begins to present itself around adolescence, and he's nearing that age. But not all who have voyeuristic tendencies in their youth will meet criteria for this condition as adults. However, this behavior is predatory in nature, given the lengths that he's going to in order to do it, and it stems from a need for power or control. And at this age, that says a lot about what may or may not be going on inside the home or even at school.

• 11:38Vanessa Richardson?

  What can happen if this type of behavior goes unchecked?

• 11:42Tristin Engels?

  If this behavior continues without any intervention, he is at an increased risk of more sexually deviant behavior or even sexual violence. Because there is a correlation, not a causation, but a correlation between paraphilia disorders and sexual violence. And in particular, approximately 20% of voyeurs have gone on to commit sexual assault or rape. The act of voyeurism alone is a crime in the United States because, as I mentioned, it violates a person's privacy. So individuals who engage in this are also at a risk of acquiring more antisocial behaviors as a result.

• 12:22Vanessa Richardson?

  We don't know who Ray heard this from, or if he told Todd's parents, but we do know that these rumors kept swirling around Todd for years. This might be why girls at school stayed away from Todd, except for a classmate named Jackie Sims. Whether or not she knew about the allegations against Todd, it wasn't enough to keep her from him. The pair met in 1981, when they were 13, and quickly started dating.

• 12:49Tristin Engels?

  So that may sound alarming, given their age, but statistically, it's actually normal for children to start exploring dating around this age. Though, of course, those dates are more innocent and often done in group settings with friends.

• 13:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, she must have liked Todd's big smile and how kind he was to her. And Todd probably liked that Jackie was smart, but didn't judge him for being less intelligent than her. But although he was nice to Jackie, he didn't extend that same kindness to everyone. In 1984, three years after he met Jackie, Todd got into a fight with another boy his age. During the altercation, Todd pulled out a knife. Fortunately, the other boy was able to defend himself, but the police were called and they took the matter very seriously. They charged 16-year-old Todd with attempted second-degree murder.

• 13:41Tristin Engels?

  So we're already getting some confirmation that Todd may have some academic or cognitive difficulties because he's less intelligent. But also, what we're seeing here is the criteria for conduct disorder, which is a pervasive pattern of aggressive, rule-violating behaviors in children and teenagers. And this is a precursor to antisocial personality disorder.

• 14:01Vanessa Richardson?

  It's not clear why, but there was never a hearing for that case, which meant Todd was off the hook. So instead of using the opportunity to turn his life around, his behavior only got worse. About a year after the fight, one of Todd's neighbors caught him looking into his house. The man had caught Todd spying on his daughters multiple times before, and now he was fed up. He contacted the police. But again, Todd didn't face any serious consequences. After that, his deviant behavior did seem to slow down for a few years. But that didn't mean he was adjusting to society any better. He was never the brightest student, and school was apparently too much for him.

• 14:44Vanessa Richardson?

  When he was in 11th grade, he dropped out.

• 14:47Tristin Engels?

  I need to pause because this makes me wonder what kind of parenting was occurring inside of the home. It sounds like it may have been permissive or even neglectful. And if so, that can lead to poor outcomes, such as dropping out of school, academic deficiencies, poor self-control, juvenile delinquency, which we've already seen, substance abuse, and obviously behavioral issues.

• 15:09Vanessa Richardson?

  Now, Todd had to figure out another path. We don't know what he did for the next few years, but by 1987, 19-year-old Todd was working in construction. It was tough work that required long hours, but it seemed like all the hard labor was helping Todd build some character, and it convinced Jackie to stay by his side. The following year, she graduated high school, and Jackie and Todd got married. Four years after that, in 1992, they had a daughter. From the outside, it looked like Todd was following in his stepfather's footsteps, working hard and taking care of his loved ones. But the truth was, he wasn't a reliable family man at all.

• 15:54Vanessa Richardson?

  He drank a lot and liked to stay out late at the local bars. And it wasn't just alcohol he enjoyed. Todd was known to flirt with women and reportedly had multiple affairs.

• 16:07Tristin Engels?

  So at this point, Todd has developed nearly all of the risk factors I outlined earlier. And those included, as I mentioned, academic impairment, developmental or cognitive impairment, behavioral issues, substance abuse, and hypersexuality. He also appears to have possibly met criteria for conduct disorder as a juvenile, but now that he's over the age of 18, he's exhibiting symptoms of antisocial personality disorder with narcissistic traits. He continues to show a disregard for the rules and norms of society. He lacks empathy, and he's violating the boundaries of others consistently. His unfaithfulness and disregard for his family really showcases the narcissistic traits there and why he's able to be unfaithful without any regard for the consequences

• 16:51Tristin Engels?

  or the impact that this has on his family, one that he should understand. He also has a pattern of criminal behavior, impulsivity, sexual deviance, and now the substance abuse is really playing a role.

• 17:05Vanessa Richardson?

  What are the risks of Todd's substance abuse and continued hypersexuality?

• 17:10Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, research has shown that substance abuse elevates the risk of violence and sexual misconduct, particularly when there are already existing mental health conditions. And to recap yet again, there's voyeurism, conduct disorder in his youth, and now antisocial personality disorder. And the continued misuse of alcohol or other drugs will elevate that risk of violence toward others.

• 17:36Vanessa Richardson?

  His behavior was definitely a turnoff. By 1993, Todd's wife Jackie had all but given up on their relationship. But for their daughter's sake, she tried to make the best of it and stayed with Todd. However, Todd's womanizing wasn't the only problem. The 25-year-old kept finding himself on the wrong side of the law and was in and out of jail on various burglary and peeping charges. When he wasn't behind bars, Todd took whatever construction work he could get. Whether it was pipe fitting or driving cement trucks, his jobs took him all over the area. He learned the layouts of many neighborhoods and paid special attention to where the prettiest women lived.

• 18:20Vanessa Richardson?

  One of those neighborhoods was Oak Shadows in the town of Zachary, about 15 miles north of Baton Rouge. At some point in the early 1990s, Todd started going there regularly. He would park his truck on the side of Highway 964 near the entrance to Azalea Rest Cemetery, which sat right up against Oak Shadows. True to the neighborhood's name, tall oak trees lined the cemetery and dotted the streets. In other words, it was easy for Todd to conceal himself. He peered into women's living room windows while they watched TV at night. He looked into their bedrooms while they undressed, all the while keeping as still as he did when he went birdwatching as a child.

• 19:05Vanessa Richardson?

  He didn't always get away with it. On at least one occasion, a patrol officer responded to a call about a peeping Tom and apprehended Todd on foot. But even though Todd was arrested a few times, he was never kept off the streets for long. Perhaps authorities should have tried harder to keep him behind bars because in April of 1993, 25-year-old Todd's stalking turned to outright violence.

• 19:37Vanessa Richardson?

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• 21:55Vanessa Richardson?

  In 1993, 25-year-old Derek Todd Lee was bouncing between jobs by day and spying on women by night. He'd been caught a few times and faced short prison sentences, but he was never behind bars for long. And every time he got out, he went right back to his obsessive peeping. One night that April, Todd drove to his usual parking spot at the entrance of Azalea Rest Cemetery, off Highway 964, right next to the Oak Shadows subdivision. He liked to lurk there because the oak trees in the cemetery helped conceal him from view. And on this night, some heavy rainfall provided him with extra cover.

• 22:38Vanessa Richardson?

  As Todd made his way into the neighborhood, he noticed a car under the trees, behind the curtains of rain. There were two people kissing inside. Something about this set Todd off. Maybe it was the fact that these people might also see him, or maybe it was because they were enjoying a romantic night and he was alone. Either way, anger swelled in Todd's chest. He must have gone back to his truck because soon, he returned with an axe in his hand. He made his way to the car and opened the door. He brought his weapon down on the two teenagers, cutting into the girl's leg and lacerating the boy's head. Thankfully, he

• 23:21Vanessa Richardson?

  was interrupted when a pair of headlights appeared in the distance. Todd booked it back to his truck and sped off. Moments later, the oncoming car pulled up to where the teenagers were parked. It was a police officer. Fortunately, he was able to get them help in time. The girl gave a detailed description of the attacker, but there wasn't any forensic evidence to go along with it, which meant Todd was free to keep compulsively spying on women.

• 23:51Tristin Engels?

  So let's discuss this very extreme response. You would think that someone who enjoys watching people undress or engage in sexual acts would be happy to stumble upon two unsuspecting teenagers kissing in their car. But instead, he was clearly enraged. So why? Over the last 16 years of his life since the onset of the voyeurism, he has become more criminally versatile. He began casing out neighborhoods, which allowed him to find a location that provided him access to women with the least amount of risk. And that led him here to Oak Shadows. That has become his hunting ground. So Todd is territorial of it.

• 24:32Tristin Engels?

  This is likely why, when he found this teenage couple kissing, rather than using it as an opportunity to watch them engaging in sexual activities, he became enraged. They are in his territory and obstructing him from his routine and from his access to the women he has already been watching.

• 24:50Vanessa Richardson?

  Given what we previously discussed about Todd's personality, why would his anger be so visceral and hard for him to deal with? Why can't he control himself here?

• 25:00Tristin Engels?

  Well, Todd needs to be in control. He needs to be the one in control. And in Todd's eyes, this poor young couple interfered with his controlled environment. So he needed to regain that control. And because he is prone to violence, because he has poor impulse control, this was his depraved way of regaining that control. It was an impulsive rage reaction that was likely also fueled by alcohol abuse.

• 25:27Vanessa Richardson?

  For the next two years, Todd continued to lurk around neighborhoods like Oak Shadows. He was addicted to the gratification he got from peeping, but he felt like there was something missing from his life. And in 1996, Todd realized that thing was money.

• 25:46Vanessa Richardson?

  Sometime that year, his father-in-law died tragically in an accident at the plant where he worked. Todd's wife Jackie received a quarter million dollars in a settlement. But as the head of the family, Todd was in charge of the money. He spent a lot of it on designer clothes and fancy cars. He loved the way people looked at him, just walking into a room turned heads.

• 26:09Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, this speaks to his grandiosity, because he wants to present as overtly flashy at the expense of his family. But also, he likely knows that appearances will help lower the defenses of unsuspecting victims and even law enforcement. And so he's preying on those biases.

• 26:27Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, the money didn't do anything to change his bad work ethic. In April 1998, two years after Jackie won the settlement money, Todd was laid off from his most recent job at a cement mixing company. The incident left him feeling bruised and resentful, and a couple of days later, his simmering rage boiled over again. On April 18th, Todd and his longtime mistress, a woman named Cassandra Green, got into an argument while they were hanging out at a local bar. Apparently, Todd and Cassandra fought a lot, but this one was explosive.

• 27:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Todd was drinking heavily, and at 10:30 PM, Cassandra got fed up and stormed out of the bar. Todd finished his beer, then left and got into his truck. But instead of going home, he went to the Oak Shadows neighborhood, specifically to the home of a woman he'd been watching for a while, named Randy Mabruer. Randy was a 28-year-old healthcare worker and single mother. At 10:00 PM on the 18th, Randy had just put her three-year-old son to bed and was watching TV. At some point after that, Todd knocked on her door and convinced Randy to let him in.

• 27:48Vanessa Richardson?

  The specifics aren't clear, but based on the evidence, he didn't enter forcefully. And going by Todd's later MO, he likely used a combination of charm and innocence to get Randy to let him in, possibly by pretending that his car had broken down.

• 28:04Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, individuals with antisocial personality disorder and who have traits of psychopathy are highly charming, manipulative and glib. They often use those traits to con and deceive others for personal gain. These traits can be used to disarm unsuspecting victims and gain their trust. They also, as I mentioned, know that their presentation plays a significant role in their effectiveness in these efforts. I mean, research shows us that a person's appearance significantly impacts how trustworthy others perceive them to be. So designer clothing, fancy cars, all of that is correlated with wealth and high social status. And because of this, Todd is more likely to be perceived as reliable and less threatening. And not

• 28:49Tristin Engels?

  to mention, he is targeting a single mother at a time when that was highly stigmatized and who is already likely emotionally and financially vulnerable, something he himself experienced with his own mother for a period of time. He has experience in understanding the vulnerabilities of this population, and it really speaks to just how cunning and predatory he is.

• 29:11Vanessa Richardson?

  This kind of reminds me of Ted Bundy, who liked to wear casts and slings to make himself seem less dangerous.

• 29:17Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, we did an episode on Ted Bundy. Yeah, if he is telling her, for example, that his car is broken down and he's got a luxury car that he purchased with his wife's money that she got from inheritance from the loss of her father, then he's using that to gain access to Randy. That is very reminiscent of Ted Bundy because he's presenting himself as vulnerable, almost like the wounded gazelle, only he's not pretending to be injured specifically, but he's allowing her to feel as though she's the savior in this situation, which can be very disarming because that switches her mindset. It's making her feel like she's in control of the situation because he needs something from her. So in essence, he's preying

• 30:01Tristin Engels?

  on her nurturing and empathetic side, much like Ted Bundy did.

• 30:06Vanessa Richardson?

  Well tragically, Todd's act worked. Randy let her guard down and invited him in. Once the door was shut behind them, he attacked. He bludgeoned her, dragged her through the house by her hair, and sexually assaulted her. Fortunately, Randy's son never left his room. Todd didn't even know the little boy was there. By the time Todd's rage subsided, Randy was dead. He found the keys to her car and put her body in the backseat. Then he dropped her remains at an unknown location. He brought the car back to her house before vanishing, still under cover of night.

• 30:47Vanessa Richardson?

  The next morning, Randy's son woke up and couldn't find his mother anywhere. He grabbed a neighbor who called the police the second she stepped inside their house. David McDavid, a detective with the Zachary Police Department, was put on the case. As soon as McDavid, who went by Mac, heard what happened in Oak Shadows, he knew in his gut that Derek Todd Lee was responsible. Todd had been on Mac's radar for years. He was well aware of Todd's history with peeping. In fact, he'd arrested Todd in Oak Shadows at least once before. Mac believed Todd was responsible for the 1992 murder of a single mother named Connie Warner,

• 31:31Vanessa Richardson?

  who had also lived in Oak Shadows, as well as the 1993 attack on the two teenagers in the car. And when Mac saw the scene at Randy's house, he became even more convinced. The aftermath of Connie Warner's murder had looked remarkably similar: bloody drag marks throughout the house and clumps of the victim's hair left behind. The main difference between the two cases was that Connie's body was found in an empty lot behind an old warehouse. Unfortunately, there'd been a hurricane the night she died, which washed away any potential DNA evidence. Investigators were never able to pin anyone for her murder.

• 32:14Vanessa Richardson?

  But Randy's body was still missing, and Mac didn't want to hit the same dead end. On April 20, 1998, two days after Randy was killed, he went to Todd's home and questioned him about his whereabouts on the 18th. Todd said he was out drinking with his mistress, Cassandra, but they got into a fight, so he left and went to another bar.

• 32:39Tristin Engels?

  So obviously Todd is giving Mac an alibi here. He did not, in fact, go back to another bar. But we should talk about the way in which he behaved after he did kill Randy. He was casually driving her car back to her house after disposing of her body. And it just really shows how calloused he is and how little empathy he has. And considering that Randy's brutal slaying occurred after a heated argument with Cassandra, his mistress, he seemingly was displacing that humiliation from that argument and the rage that resulted from it on to Randy. Because statistically, serial sexual murderers rarely target people that they know. Now that he has relieved himself of that tension

• 33:23Tristin Engels?

  and regained control in his mind, it wouldn't surprise me if after all of that, he did actually return to a bar. Because now he's in a state of relaxation for him, and that involves drinking. Even though this is an alibi, I wouldn't be surprised if part of it was true. If after killing Randy, he did return to a bar.

• 33:44Vanessa Richardson?

  Detective McDavid certainly thought Todd's behavior was suspicious. And as it turned out, Randy Mabrewer's house was right between the two bars Todd claimed to have gone to. Now, Mac knew Todd was the guy he was after. The problem was, they still couldn't find Randy's body. Days went by, then weeks, then months. Without any concrete forensic evidence, it would be hard to pin her murder on Todd. Mac didn't even have meaningful witness testimony. We don't know if he spoke to Todd's wife, Jackie, but since Jackie was aware of Todd's other relationships, including Cassandra, it probably didn't strike her as odd whenever he didn't come home at night.

• 34:27Vanessa Richardson?

  So without anything else connecting him to Randy's murder, Todd remained a free man. But he was already thinking about his next target.

• 34:45Vanessa Richardson?

  In April of 1998, 29-year-old Derek Todd Lee murdered Randy Mabruer and disposed of her body. Investigators had their eye on Todd, although they weren't able to connect him to the crime. It's not clear if Todd knew they were on to him, but he avoided legal trouble for a while. However, it wasn't long before another wave of stress pummeled him, and he needed another terrifying release. Todd had blown through all of his wife Jackie's settlement money on clothes, shoes, and cars. There was nothing left to keep their family afloat. Things only got worse when Cassandra got pregnant.

• 35:28Vanessa Richardson?

  In the months leading up to the baby's birth in July 1999, Todd couldn't handle the pressure of having a child with another woman, especially when he already had two with Jackie. So he distracted himself with his latest fixation: 36-year-old Colette Walker. Colette lived in downtown St. Francisville, about 30 miles north of Baton Rouge. Todd liked to hang out at the bars there, and at some point, he spotted Colette around town. Eventually, he started following her back to her apartment complex and tracking her movements. He learned her schedule, including when her teenage daughter was gone and Colette was home alone.

• 36:12Tristin Engels?

  So stalking is a crime of power and control, much like sexual violence as well as serial murder. There are different kinds of stalkers and different kinds of stalking behaviors. And when it comes to Todd's pattern of stalking here, he would be categorized as a predatory stalker, who's using surveillance stalking behavior. So that means that as a predatory stalker, he is seeking power and sexual gratification, which obviously tracks with his pattern of behaviors since the age of nine. But predatory stalkers are obsessed with deviant sexual desires. And regarding his stalking behavior, he uses surveillance behavior.

• 36:52Tristin Engels?

  To watch his victims from a distance while gathering information, information that he needs in order to plan his attack later. They may even engage in repeated and unwanted contact with their victim. And individuals who use surveillance stalking behaviors often include technology in that task. So they monitor them online, they use photos or video, even planting tracking devices.

• 37:17Vanessa Richardson?

  What can trigger someone's hyper fixation on another person? And what might cause someone to transfer their fixation from one person to another like that?

• 37:27Tristin Engels?

  So hyper fixation occurs, especially with stalking, when a stalker finds a target that fits their specific sexual desire or fantasy. Then they get fixated. Predatory stalkers also tend to be serial stalkers. And so they often transfer their fixation after they've completed their attack cycle. But in instances where there are too many obstacles that prevent them from completing their attack cycle, they can still transfer that fixation to a target that is more available or vulnerable because of the inability to fulfill that desire with the current target.

• 38:03Vanessa Richardson?

  Over the next few months, Todd was fixated on Colette. And on June 21, 1999, he finally made his move. That day, 30-year-old Todd waited in broad daylight in the parking lot outside Colette's ground-floor apartment. When Colette stepped out to run some errands, Todd quietly walked up behind her. He made some casual conversation, then asked Colette if she wanted to grab a beer. She told him no, and when he kept pressing the issue, she quickly got into her car and drove off. But when Colette returned from her errands a little while later, Todd was still there. As she turned the key to her apartment,

• 38:45Vanessa Richardson?

  Todd came out from around the corner and tried asking her out again. She said no, then hurried inside and locked the door. Colette probably hoped this was a one-off incident, but two days later, Todd came back.

• 39:00Vanessa Richardson?

  On June 23rd, Colette was entering her apartment when Todd came around the corner and stepped past her right through the door. By the time she realized what had happened, Todd was already sitting on the couch in her living room. Colette told him he had to leave, and to her surprise, he obliged. But first, he wrote down his phone number and hugged her. Then he was out the door.

• 39:25Tristin Engels?

  So in hearing this, I would want to determine if Todd is suffering from erotomania delusion, which is a delusional belief that a person, in this case, Colette, is in love with him despite all the evidence to the contrary. Although this is a rare mental health condition, it is actually common among stalkers. And it makes sense to see this behavior pattern occurring after the birth of his child with Cassandra, because Cassandra's attention and her affection has now been taken from Todd and centered on their new infant. So the fact that he chose not to hurt Colette, even though he could have, supports the suspicion

• 40:09Tristin Engels?

  that he may be having a delusion of erotomania with Colette. If this is indeed what is occurring, then to him, her rejection is not rejection at all. He would be interpreting everything she does or does not do as confirmation of her love for him. Even her act of asking him to leave would be interpreted by someone with delusions of erotomania as, quote, "proof" that she wants him around. He will continually misinterpret the littlest things as signs of her love for him. And I've actually encountered this in my career as a forensic psychologist, and it becomes very tricky to navigate, because part of my work, a lot of it actually, revolves me asking personal questions.

• 40:53Tristin Engels?

  And so someone who has erotomania will quickly and very easily misinterpret those questions as romantic interest. And unfortunately, the best way for me to establish boundaries in my career in these instances and to ensure safety and also obtain Accurate information is to reassign that case to someone who matches the gender of the patient. So removing me entirely from the equation. And unfortunately for women like Colette, that's not possible. That being said, this could explain why he did not harm Colette, while also justifying his continued efforts because he doesn't see it as stalking. If he's believing that she's in love with him and instead believes she wants him to show up at her home.

• 41:37Tristin Engels?

  So for now, it's possible that he truly believes that they're in a relationship.

• 41:43Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though Todd hadn't tried to hurt Colette, he still wasn't done with her. The very next night at 11:30 PM, he was lurking outside her apartment once again. This time, her daughter was home. At one point, the teenage girl stepped outside to grab something from her car. Colette kept an eye on her from the doorway, and that's when she saw Todd step out from behind a tree. At that moment, Colette realized something. All along, she thought Todd had been running into her by chance as she passed through the apartment complex. But in reality, he'd been spying on her. Todd spotted Colette in the doorway and tried to talk to her.

• 42:26Vanessa Richardson?

  Colette ignored him, then rushed her daughter inside and closed the door.

• 42:39Vanessa Richardson?

  With the holidays coming up, my schedule gets pretty chaotic. Between work, traveling to see family, grocery runs, and late night errands, my house spends a lot more time empty. A neighbor down the street actually had someone break in a few weeks ago, no joke. And that was the exact moment I decided I needed real protection for my kids and my home. I love SimpliSafe because it doesn't just react to a crime after the damage is done, it prevents it. SimpliSafe uses smart, AI-powered cameras that detect suspicious activity and alert a live, US-based agent right away. In under 30 seconds, that agent can actually speak live through the outdoor camera to warn an intruder off while instantly contacting 911 if necessary, leaving home without that constant. nagging worry is priceless. And now is the absolute best time to secure your space.

• 43:24Vanessa Richardson?

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• 43:51Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though Colette realized Todd had been watching her, she didn't call the police. But a few days later, she ran into a neighbor who said that she'd seen Todd looking through Colette's window multiple times. Once she heard this, Colette finally contacted the authorities.

• 44:08Tristin Engels?

  So I know a lot of people listening are probably wondering why it took her so long to contact the authorities. So let's break that down because there's a number of possible reasons why that is, especially given that she didn't do it when he forced his way into her apartment. So beginning with the fact that it sounds like initially she thought that he lived in her complex and was running into him by chance. Now, individuals often dismiss or minimize the actions of their neighbors for fear of escalating the situation or creating a hostile living environment or becoming the victim of retaliation. It's your home. It's supposed to be your safe space, so you want to protect it. Now, this may be why she chose to dismiss or rationalize his inappropriate actions.

• 44:52Tristin Engels?

  But also, stalking laws need reform. There are far too many instances where victims of stalking report it to police and the police aren't able to do anything. And it just escalates the situation even more. If the individual stalking them is not threatening them directly, then police don't have a crime to arrest them for. They also aren't trespassing if they willingly leave when they're asked. So there's an extremely high burden of proof on the victim, unfairly so, when it comes to stalking or harassment. And the reality is, when police feel that they can intervene, it's already too late. A crime's been committed, and usually that crime is violence or homicide.

• 45:35Tristin Engels?

  She needs to know who he is if she's to call law enforcement, so they know who to make contact with. They can, you know, maybe stay outside and see if he shows up. But if they don't have a name, then they don't know who to go to. And let's say she did. Let's say she called the police. They made contact with Todd. She'd likely fear his reaction to that and fear that it would just escalate him further. It's hard to feel protected, truly, in situations like this when they know where you live. So this is the reality for most victims of stalking or intimate partner violence. Regardless of what action or inaction Collette took, she is the victim. She's not to blame for Todd's actions, nor is she to be shamed for that. And overall, we need to start really actively addressing

• 46:19Tristin Engels?

  the systemic issues that cause victims to fear reporting in the first place.

• 46:24Vanessa Richardson?

  Thankfully, it didn't take long for the St. Francisville Assistant Chief of Police to respond to Collette's call. He already knew about Todd's history, and at a hunch, he was the intruder. He examined the area around Collette's apartment and found a shoe print under her bedroom window. That was enough for him to bring Todd in for questioning, and he confessed to stalking Collette. And five months later, in December of 1999, the 31-year-old was sentenced to six months in prison. But for unknown reasons, the sentence was suspended, and Todd only had to serve two years of probation.

• 47:03Tristin Engels?

  And this is another example of why a lot of women don't report. Because all of that, for him to be released so quickly, he's got six months that he spent in prison and probably thinking about her, obsessing over her, and who's going to protect her once he's released.

• 47:20Vanessa Richardson?

  However, in February of 2000, Todd blew his shot. One winter night, Todd and his girlfriend, Cassandra, got into another explosive argument while out at a bar. Todd flew into a rage and hit Cassandra in the face multiple times. Someone called the police, and Todd tried to flee. An officer was approaching as Todd got into his truck, and Todd tried to run him over. In the end, Todd spent a year in prison for the incident. But although he'd been in jail before, this latest stint seemed to affect him in a different way, and not a good one. By September 2001, Todd began stalking a neighborhood near Louisiana State University

• 48:05Vanessa Richardson?

  in Baton Rouge. A lot of young women lived in the little bungalows, many of which had glassed-in porches, which were perfect for Todd to look into while he often hid in the bushes outside. Thirty-two-year-old Todd quickly became fixated on an LSU student named Gina Wilson-Green, and on September 24th, he got tired of just looking. That night, when Todd knew Gina was alone, he entered her home and attacked. He sexually assaulted her, then strangled her until she died. Then Todd picked up Gina's body, carried her into the bedroom, and placed her in bed with a blanket over her.

• 48:50Tristin Engels?

  So this is a bit of a deviation from his past methods. But with most serial killers, their initial murders are more inexperienced and less contained. And over time, they become more sophisticated in their methods. It's not uncommon to see a serial murderer go from bludgeoning to strangulation, or even using a firearm. They learn with each experience how to reduce the risks and become more efficient in their next murder. His decision to strangle Gina may be due to the need for a more silent method of killing, given that she lived near a college and maybe even had roommates. Todd knew this because he had been watching her. He knew her routine, and he specifically waited until she was alone.

• 49:35Tristin Engels?

  And given that it's near campus and a highly active area where students are likely walking around at different hours, he could be overheard by someone outside if he stuck to his usual method.

• 49:46Vanessa Richardson?

  Why would he leave Gina in bed when he had disposed of Randy's body and ostensibly Connie Warner's?

• 49:53Tristin Engels?

  Todd is very atypical. Initially, I was thinking there was possibly something symbolic about this. Randy and Connie were single mothers, and Colette too, in fact. Todd's mother was a single mother at one point. But Gina was not a mother. I contemplated the idea that maybe he removed the bodies of Randy and Connie to protect their children from discovering them. And I know when we were going through Randy's story, it was mentioned that Todd didn't know her son was there, but I disagree. He's been stalking her, he's been watching her, he knows her routine. He knows she's a mother. He knew the child was there. My initial thought was that he was preventing the children

• 50:36Tristin Engels?

  or protecting the children from discovering their bodies because he himself could identify with childhood trauma, especially parental loss. Some psychopaths, specifically sociopaths actually, have some varying degrees of empathy, so it's not entirely impossible. But as we go through this story, and as you take us there Vanessa, this theory gets challenged later on. Then, once again, we have to consider the role of Gina's environment. It would be very risky for him to remove a body without being seen in a neighborhood like this. This isn't Oak Shadows. It's a college area. So it would make sense why he would leave her body in bed and then cover her with a blanket. I think the blanket is the symbol of the disposal of the body in a sense.

• 51:20Tristin Engels?

  And it's definitely also a symbol of detachment, that she has no personal significance to him.

• 51:26Vanessa Richardson?

  Todd's MO wasn't the only thing changing. Before he left Gina's house, he did something else surprising. He snagged her cellphone and wallet. The next morning, Gina didn't show up for work and no one could reach her. One of her coworkers called Baton Rouge PD to notify them. Investigators didn't find any signs of forced entry. They also weren't able to gather any DNA evidence from her body or the scene. But they did notice one crucial thing: Gina's missing phone and wallet. They started tracking her cell signal, and on September 27th, three days after Gina's murder, investigators got a hit.

• 52:08Vanessa Richardson?

  It was coming from a tower near the Mississippi River Bridge, just a couple of miles north of LSU's campus. From there, a data security agent was able to pinpoint the exact location of Gina's phone. The agent followed the signal about three more miles north to the warehouse district. Once there, he walked behind an abandoned building and found himself in an empty lot. After a few minutes, he spotted Gina's cellphone, wallet, and ID cards. But he didn't find anything that might point investigators in the direction of Gina's killer, at least not that he could see. After the agent turned the items over to Baton Rouge detectives, they realized something.

• 52:53Vanessa Richardson?

  They knew that lot. They'd been there before, when they found Connie Warner's body back in 1992. Baton Rouge PD knew that Detective Mac McDavid over in Zachary thought Todd had killed Connie and Randy Mabruer. And now, Mac thought that Todd also killed Gina Wilson-Green. But even though Mac was on to him, there still wasn't any proof. And Todd's life as a serial killer was just beginning.

• 53:39Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next time as we discuss Derek Todd Lee's string of violent murders and how investigators connected the dots to find him.

• 53:51Tristin Engels?

  Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on Instagram at Killer Minds. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 54:12Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting Crime House bonus content.

• 54:30Vanessa Richardson?

  Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Camp, Sarah Tardif, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 54:59Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.