Ted Bundy Pt. 2

Even after authorities uncovered Ted Bundy's heinous crimes, bringing the terrifying serial killer to justice proved incredibly difficult. With his calculated alibis, charm, and daring jailbreaks, it seemed Bundy might escape punishment forever. However, his uncontrollable urge to kill eventually led to his downfall, and it was only a matter of time before Bundy lost control. Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House Original. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @crimehouse for more true crime content.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  We'd all like to live up to the phrase, "Don't judge a book by its cover." But it's definitely not easy. In fact, research shows we're more likely to trust someone we're attracted to. Still, looks can be deceiving. That was especially true when it came to Ted Bundy. Most people would say Ted was conventionally attractive. He was charming, friendly, and approachable. People couldn't help but trust him, and he knew it. Ted weaponized his charisma to deceive, manipulate, and kill.

• 1:20Vanessa Richardson?

  And by the time people discovered Ted Bundy's true nature, it was too late.

• 1:37Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes, the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and violent offenders. And for more true crime stories that all happened this week in history, check out Crime House: The Show. Each episode covers multiple cases unified by the same theme, so every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making

• 2:22Vanessa Richardson?

  this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And to enhance your Mind of a Serial Killer listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 2:51Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her dive into these killers' minds as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.

• 3:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Before we get into the story, you should know it contains descriptions of murder and violent crime. Listener discretion is advised. This is our second and final of two episodes on Ted Bundy, one of the most notorious serial killers of all time. Between 1974 and 1978, Ted used his good looks and charisma to murder at least 30 young women. Last time, we covered Ted's early life and the terrifying circumstances that led to his brutal killing spree across the Pacific Northwest. Today, we'll follow the investigation that landed Ted Bundy in jail, the daring escapes that baffled investigators, and his

• 3:46Vanessa Richardson?

  final horrific murders. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a serial killer? Ted Bundy spent his life preparing to become a serial killer. Overcome with feelings of inadequacy and rage, Ted slowly morphed into something monstrous and evil. He satisfied his dark impulses by preying on young women on college campuses throughout the Pacific Northwest. And by July of 1974, 28-year-old Ted had crafted a spotless persona that served as the perfect alibi.

• 4:31Vanessa Richardson?

  But that facade was starting to crumble. No one noticed it more than his long-term girlfriend, Elizabeth Kleppfer. Throughout their five-year relationship, she'd supported Ted as he went back to school and tried to make something of himself. In return, he made sure he was a wonderful partner to Elizabeth and a great father figure to her young daughter, Molly. But by the summer of 1974, things had changed. Ted was less dependable than he used to be and was acting moody and irritable. On top of that, his desires in the bedroom had taken a dark turn. Around the beginning of the year, which coincided with Ted's first murder, he'd started pushing

• 5:15Vanessa Richardson?

  Elizabeth to perform more extreme acts in bed. She initially agreed to let him tie her up with nylon stockings, but she became terrified when Ted started choking her. They had not discussed that beforehand. She ended up kicking him out of bed.

• 5:33Tristin Engels?

  We talked a little bit about this in episode one with regard to the voyeurism and the signs that sexual sadism was showing itself. And we're really starting to see that progression of sexual sadism here. And that is the sexual arousal from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation onto others. There is a correlation with sexual sadism and individuals to go on to rape or murder, though that still only comprises a small percentage of individuals who are diagnosed with sexual sadism. But since Ted also exhibits signs of narcissism and psychopathy, it's unsurprising to see these changes in sexual behavior.

• 6:16Tristin Engels?

  Psychopaths have a need for stimulation, and they are consistently seeking thrills in different ways. They also have deficits in impulse control, which we have seen with his kleptomania, for example, and kleptomania is classified as an impulse control disorder. Until this point, Ted has been consistently hunting and killing each month, which means he is getting stimulation and thrill in very intense and violent ways. And it was only a matter of time that this begins to show itself in his own relationship.

• 6:48Vanessa Richardson?

  It feels like a drug addiction, like he has to keep leveling up, like he needs more and more to get that same high.

• 6:54Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, absolutely. And I will talk a little bit more about that later in the episode.

• 6:58Vanessa Richardson?

  By mid-July, it had been a little over a month since Ted's last kill. Until this point, he'd committed his crimes under the cover of night, abducting his victims when nobody was there to see it. But now, Ted was ready to take things a step further. On July 14, 1974, he decided to strike in the middle of the afternoon and in a massive crowd.

• 7:23Tristin Engels?

  This also is more evidence that his threshold that we were talking about for stimulation has increased, and he is seeking more stimulation and more thrill as a result.

• 7:33Vanessa Richardson?

  That day, he drove down to Lake Sammamish, a 500-acre waterfront state park about 15 miles from Seattle. Dressed in a bright white tennis shirt, complemented with a fake sling around his arm, he walked up and down the shoreline, searching for victims. For his plan to work, he needed to convince someone to get in his tan Volkswagen Beetle. So he came up with a cover story that he needed help picking up a sailboat at his parents' place nearby. He tried a few times without any luck, but eventually, he managed to win over 23-year-old Janice Ott. She was a free-spirited bohemian type and agreed to help Ted out if he gave her a ride on the boat.

• 8:17Vanessa Richardson?

  Of course, there was no boat. After getting into Ted's car, Janice was never seen again. But one victim wasn't enough for him. After kidnapping Janice, Ted came back to the lake later that day, where he successfully used the same story on 19-year-old Denise Nasland. The double murder seemed to satisfy Ted's lust for violence. Later that day, he took Elizabeth out to dinner and stayed over at her place. He seemed tired, but other than that, he acted like he was back to normal. The line between Ted the serial killer and Ted the loving boyfriend had been restored.

• 9:01Tristin Engels?

  Serial killers get some kind of psychological or sexual gratification from their killings. And in Ted's case, it's arguably both of those things. And that need for gratification can cause intense psychological pressure, like he described. So after they experience the gratification, they subsequently experience a reduction in tension and anger or anxiety. And that's why it appears for the moment that Ted is now the loving boyfriend that has been restored.

• 9:34Vanessa Richardson?

  So we were just talking about how this is something like an addiction. It seems like Ted had to escalate each time to feel that same rush. Is there ever a point where it's not enough?

• 9:45Tristin Engels?

  Let's talk about the first part. Yes, it is very similar to an addiction in that the more that they do this, the more the desire escalates and their tolerance goes up, meaning the more they need to do, which is why we are seeing that Ted had victimized two women in one day. It's also similar to a compulsion where in order to alleviate intense feelings, like the distress he talked about, that rage or that built up tension, they have to act on their desires. But to be clear, this is not the same as obsessive compulsive disorder, which is a condition that affects millions of people. And if it was, we would see a lot more than 1% of the population, meeting criteria for a serial killer. So please do not assume that people who have OCD are violent.

• 10:30Tristin Engels?

  But the reality is, there is not a point where it's enough. They may slow down because of their age or physical limitations. But if or when that happens, they continue to live out that gratification through trophies or mementos or even their memories. Or, in Ted's case, their personal relationships.

• 10:53Vanessa Richardson?

  The inner peace Ted had gotten from these last murders didn't last long. Janice and Denise's friends quickly noticed they were missing. Thankfully, the police connected their disappearances to the area's elusive serial killer. Investigators located the women Ted failed to lure in at the lake, and they were able to describe him and his Volkswagen Beetle to the police. Ted had even used his real first name to introduce himself. By the next morning, the story was all over the news, along with a composite sketch of Ted's face. Some people who knew Ted were able to make the connection. At some point that summer, one of his former professors called the authorities

• 11:36Vanessa Richardson?

  and described Ted as "weird." And this professor wasn't the only one who realized there was something off about him. Ted's girlfriend Elizabeth also connected the dots. She couldn't bring herself to fully believe that Ted was a serial killer, but she also couldn't deny how closely he matched the description of the man at the lake, or that they drove the same car, or had the same name. After agonizing over what to do, she decided to make an anonymous call to the Seattle PD, encouraging them to look into Ted Bundy. It was enough to place Ted on a list of 100 potential suspects, but considering his good reputation and lack of a criminal record,

• 12:21Vanessa Richardson?

  he was basically at the bottom of it. The police's general lack of interest in him made Elizabeth feel like, maybe she was being paranoid, and she let it go for the time being. Ted had no idea she'd called the authorities, but he'd seen all the reports about his crimes at the lake. He decided to get out of town for a while and transferred to the University of Utah's Law School in Salt Lake City for the fall semester. The move had been carefully planned. Elizabeth had family there. And even though she didn't move to Utah with him, it made sense that he'd go there. He'd been talking about it as a possibility for a while, and the decision didn't come as a surprise.

• 13:05Vanessa Richardson?

  So when he left Seattle on September 2nd, 1974, Elizabeth didn't necessarily find it suspicious. After the murders at the lake, Ted knew he couldn't risk killing again, but once he got settled in at Salt Lake City, he felt like it was safe to go back on the hunt. Continuing his escalation from before, Ted murdered four more young women between October and the first week of November, 1974. They were even younger and more vulnerable than his previous victims. One was just 16 years old, while the other three were 17.

• 13:44Vanessa Richardson?

  Ted tried to claim a fifth victim as well, an 18-year-old girl named Carol Deronch. However, he failed to handcuff her properly, and she thankfully managed to escape by jumping out of his moving car. Carol was able to give the police a description of the man who'd attacked her, and the authorities made the blood-curdling realization: The killer from the Pacific Northwest was now in Utah. Unfortunately, they didn't have many leads to follow, but thankfully, the investigation back in Washington was making real progress. Two weeks earlier, on October 27th, a group of hunters had stumbled upon the bodies of

• 14:26Vanessa Richardson?

  Janice Ott and Denise Nazland in the wilderness near Lake Samamish. The scene was worse than anyone had feared. Evidence suggested the killer kept the women alive in the woods for several days while he sexually assaulted them, and continued to do so even after they were dead. Before he killed them, he also routinely cleaned the bodies and applied fresh makeup. It seemed like the murderer treated the victims more like dolls than people.

• 14:59Tristin Engels?

  Let's talk about the way he's treating his victims now. This is a serious form of sexual sadism because it does involve torture. This is, this is torturous for these women. And let's discuss why he did this. As we've covered in episode one, and it begs repeating, Ted has a fixation on appearances. And that started from a young age when he was taught the importance of image, to cover up the fact that he was born out of wedlock and that it was acceptable to maintain whatever that image is through deception and lies. And when we think about Ted and the partners he has chosen, he was also looking at their image. Specifically, he's looking at whether they are affluent,

• 15:44Tristin Engels?

  if they're attractive, if they're successful or well-connected in highly regarded social circles. This is by design because if he is connected with them, then in his mind, he secures a similar image and it secures an identity, one that he hasn't been able to find on his own. That feeds into his narcissism and it allows him to challenge that low sense of self-worth he's had since he was young. He was so deeply wounded by the breakup of his first girlfriend because it was a loss of social status and a reinforcement of his own insecurities. When you described how he had routinely cleaned his victims and applied fresh makeup, I immediately think and feel that this is his attempt

• 16:26Tristin Engels?

  to make them presentable and make them worthy of him. They need to appear in the image of an attractive, successful and high-status woman. When it comes to the psychology of necrophilia, people who engage in these behaviors suffer from low self-esteem and consequently, they fear rejection. This fits Ted quite well, so it's not surprising that he engaged in this. He does not handle rejection well and he has deep-rooted self-esteem deficits and insecurities. These acts allow him to control everything, from their appearance to his access to them and the gratification he gets in torturing them.

• 17:09Tristin Engels?

  And more importantly, their inability to reject that.

• 17:15Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, rightfully so, these reports terrified the nation. When Ted's girlfriend Elizabeth read the stories, her suspicions about him came roaring back. She called her local police in late October and then again in November. This time she gave them her name and explained that Ted was her boyfriend. But just like before, they didn't look into Ted too closely. Detectives were receiving hundreds of tips every day. Officers put in over a hundred hours per week just fielding phone calls from distressed parents and curious journalists. At this point, they needed to prioritize suspects who seemed more likely to commit violent crime.

• 17:56Vanessa Richardson?

  The fact that the police weren't interested in her boyfriend comforted Elizabeth. She quieted the fears that kept her up at night and they spent a happy Christmas together. But their happiness wouldn't last much longer. By the end of the next year, Elizabeth's fairy tale romance with Ted Bundy would come to a terrifying end. With the holidays coming up, my schedule gets pretty chaotic. Between work, traveling to see family, grocery runs, and late night errands, my house spends a lot more time empty. A neighbor down the street actually had someone break in a few weeks ago, no joke. And that was the exact moment I decided I needed real protection for my kids and my home.

• 18:41Vanessa Richardson?

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• 19:26Vanessa Richardson?

  It tells them we sent you. And it really helps the show. SimpliSafe: Ahead of Crime in Real Time.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  Everyone's told a lie, but what happens when one lie becomes a life, a movement, a conspiracy? I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, and I uncover true stories of deception scams so intimate and convincing, they fooled the people closest to them. These aren't strangers, they're lovers, friends, and trusted allies. Because the most dangerous cons don't feel like crimes, they feel personal. Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.

• 20:02Vanessa Richardson?

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• 20:35Vanessa Richardson?

  By January 1975, 29-year-old Ted Bundy had been murdering young women for a year straight, claiming at least 11 victims. For a while, he'd managed to avoid detection, but by the beginning of 1975, the authorities in Washington and Utah knew there was a serial killer on the loose. News of his brutal rampage made it harder for him to find suitable victims at his new home in Salt Lake City. People were on high alert about talking to strangers, and there were fewer hitchhikers looking for rides. With that in mind, Ted moved his hunting grounds again.

• 21:17Vanessa Richardson?

  In early 1975, he headed for the mountains of Colorado, where he blended in with the tourists at upscale ski resorts. Using the tactics he'd perfected over the previous year, Ted abducted and killed three young women between January and April. As the last snow in Colorado melted, he shifted gears again and cast an even wider net. His next two victims were slain in Idaho and Utah. By the end of June 1975, Ted Bundy had killed a staggering 17 young women over the span of 18 months.

• 21:59Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, let's talk about just that level of violence. Ted continues to show that he is adaptable and cunning. He recognized that his access has been limited because women were becoming more cautious, hitchhiking less, and not as interactive with strangers. So what does he do? He finds another way to get access and he chooses a location that gives him an advantage. It's upscale, it's affluent. So women are likely assuming he is the same and are less likely to feel threatened by him. The reason that I believe that Ted was successful at disarming his victims and presenting as

• 22:38Tristin Engels?

  non-threatening was because he used implicit biases and systemic racism to his advantage. Ted was a charming, conventionally attractive white male who is presenting to everyone around him, somebody who is maybe wealthy and highly educated. People in higher socioeconomic circles, who are white in particular, are raised to believe that stranger danger consists of lower class and black or people of color, not anyone with higher education, higher socioeconomic status, and certainly not a white male. The more and more success Ted has at manipulating others, the more it fuels his narcissism and his need for more stimulation.

• 23:21Tristin Engels?

  Seventeen victims and he has not yet been caught. He's not been identified and he's not yet been unsuccessful luring any potential victims. This just emboldens him even more. And it's also worth noting, he is no longer living with Elizabeth and therefore does not have any accountability or oversight in the home.

• 23:43Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think Ted was desensitized to his crimes over time, making his later murders more brutal?

• 23:50Tristin Engels?

  This is a really good question. Uh, yes, in a sense, but I would characterize it as though he is habituated. And that's different because to become desensitized, that means someone's heightened response to a stimulus has returned back to a normal response. Whereas habituation occurs when a person's response to a stimulus decreases after repeated exposure. And that's what we're seeing with Ted. What he's been doing is not providing the same response as it once was. It's decreasing. So it's becoming increasingly ineffective because of the repeated exposure he's been having to these violent acts. And now he's requiring more extreme acts to achieve the same level of gratification and stimulation.

• 24:35Vanessa Richardson?

  Back in Washington, the local authorities realized their current approach to the case wasn't working and looked for an unconventional way to sift through the mountains of tips they'd received. Using an old payroll computer, they built a primitive database to cross-reference the victims with their classmates, known sex offenders, registered Volkswagen Beetle owners, anonymous tips, and more. The database was one of the first of its kind. Thousands of suspects were fed into the computer. Out of all the names, only 26 appeared on more than four lists, making them the prime suspects. One of them was Ted Bundy. But just like the last list he'd been on, it would take a while to get to him.

• 25:20Vanessa Richardson?

  While investigators dug through their latest findings, Ted was still on the hunt. In the early hours of August 16, 1975, the 29-year-old cruised through a Salt Lake City suburb looking for his next victim. Around 2:30 a.m., Ted parked his Volkswagen on the side of the road and sparked up a joint. While he smoked in his car, a pair of headlights suddenly appeared in his rearview mirror. The lights startled Ted. Without thinking, he slammed on the gas and peeled out with his headlights off. That was the worst thing he could have done because the headlights belonged to a highway patrol The officer flicked on his siren and pursued Ted to a nearby gas station.

• 26:05Vanessa Richardson?

  He could smell the marijuana as he approached the suspect's car and expected to find a hysterical teenager inside. Instead, he met Ted Bundy, who looked disheveled but otherwise calm. Ted turned on the charm, apologizing for his reckless driving as he handed over his papers. But no amount of sweet talk could distract the officer when he read the name on the license. For months, every cop in Utah had been after a man named Ted driving a tan Volkswagen. The officer didn't want to jump to any conclusions based on those facts alone, but it did make him take a second look at Ted's vehicle.

• 26:45Vanessa Richardson?

  He scanned the inside of the car with his flashlight and opened the glove compartment. It contained a ski mask, gloves, handcuffs, rope, and a crowbar. A shovel lay unused in the backseat. Ted knew there was no talking his way out of this one. He spent the night in jail for evading an officer, but detectives at the station wondered if he was the serial killer everyone was looking for. However, the only evidence they had were the items in his glove compartment, which was suspicious, but not enough to keep him behind bars. The next morning, Ted was allowed to leave the station.

• 27:26Vanessa Richardson?

  After he was gone, the detectives called their colleagues in Seattle to see if Ted Bundy was on their radar. In a remarkable coincidence, Ted was literally the next person on their list to investigate. The detectives in Utah agreed to keep a close eye on him. They had front row seats as Ted Bundy's world unraveled. After Elizabeth learned that he'd been arrested with those disturbing items in his bag, she finally broke up with him. Ted tried to tell her it was all a misunderstanding, but she couldn't believe him anymore. She had to do what was best for her daughter and keep Ted away.

• 28:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Though he used their relationship as cover for his violence, Ted was also deeply attached to Elizabeth. The same urges that drove him to murder women also somehow compelled him to seek their approval, and he'd always been sensitive to rejection.

• 28:25Vanessa Richardson?

  After the breakup, he drank heavily and his friends in Utah noticed dramatic mood swings.

• 28:31Tristin Engels?

  Let's talk about, you know, his reaction to the breakup. I don't think that his attachment to Elizabeth was because of her as a person, but rather what she represented. Elizabeth was part of his mask, the image he carefully crafted to overcompensate for such low self-esteem and low sense of self-worth, in addition to being able to go out and be unsuspecting. His reaction to this breakup was reacting to the loss of a narcissistic supply that helped fuel his ego and inflate his sense of self-worth.

• 29:07Vanessa Richardson?

  So considering what we know about him, does it seem like he was really capable of love?

• 29:13Tristin Engels?

  No, I think he is really only capable of loving what it is he gains from other people. Everything is for his pure self-interest.

• 29:24Vanessa Richardson?

  However Ted truly felt about the breakup, it was about to be the least of his problems. The authorities searched Ted's apartment in Salt Lake City, where they found several pieces of circumstantial evidence. Some of the items included a guide to Colorado ski resorts, a brochure from one of the victims' schools, and the same type of shoes Carol Deronch's kidnapper had worn. None of it was definitive proof Ted was a serial killer, but it was enough to place him in a police lineup for Carol Deronch on October 2nd, 1975. She was able to identify him, and that same day, Ted was charged with kidnapping and attempted murder.

• 30:07Vanessa Richardson?

  In the weeks following his arrest, Ted frantically wrote to family and friends. He swore the charges were bogus and that it was all a witch hunt.

• 30:17Tristin Engels?

  Given his narcissistic side, this reaction and desperation to regain control of his image is really not surprising.

• 30:25Vanessa Richardson?

  And of all the people he contacted, he sent the most letters to his now ex-girlfriend, Elizabeth Clopfer. He wrote to her nearly every day, begging for her to take him back. Elizabeth had been one of the first to suspect Ted had a dark side. But now that he was in jail, she found it hard to accept that he was really a killer. He told her everything she wanted to hear. And by the end of 1975, they were somehow back together.

• 30:55Tristin Engels?

  I know a lot of people are probably really surprised and questioning that. But let's remember that Ted is very good at manipulation. He is charming and cunning. Psychopaths like Ted, especially who also exhibit classic narcissism, are very skilled at distorting reality. He used all of these traits to manipulate Elizabeth from the onset of their relationship, but especially now into believing him, even when she had been suspicious of him from the beginning. It is much easier to believe the lies that he is telling her and remain in denial than the alternative. It often takes time for a loved one to process news like this, let alone accept it. She has been with Ted for years.

• 31:39Tristin Engels?

  And the version of him that she knew and the one that she loved, the one that she felt safe enough to bring around her own daughter, is the only version she knows. It's going to be very hard for her and it's going to take some time to reconcile the truth of who he is from the fictional, very superficial persona she's known for however long now that they've been together.

• 32:03Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, with Elizabeth back by his side, 29-year-old Ted Bundy walked into the courtroom on February 23, 1976, with his head held high. At first, he was confident he'd be acquitted. It was a bench trial, which meant he only needed to convince a judge instead of an entire jury. And the star witness, now 19-year-old Carol Deranch, was understandably nervous.

• 32:29Vanessa Richardson?

  Ted hoped she could be intimidated into making a mistake during her testimony, but despite some tears, Carol stood strong. She insisted that Ted was the man who tried to kidnap her. The judge believed her. Although Ted escaped the attempted murder charge, he was found guilty of aggravated kidnapping. He was sentenced to a maximum of 15 years in prison. But if the authorities had their way, he'd be there for much longer. Ted was sent to a prison in Salt Lake City, while authorities worked to connect him to the other murders. Using credit card transactions and gas station receipts,

• 33:11Vanessa Richardson?

  they determined he was in the areas where the victims disappeared. They interviewed witness after witness, while combing through the wilderness for more bodies. Finally, in October 1976, they had enough evidence to charge Ted with the murder of Karen Campbell, a 23-year-old he'd abducted from a Colorado hotel. The following year, in January 1977, he was extradited to a prison in Aspen. The instant he got there, officials could tell he was a different kind of criminal. He poured on the charm and got on easily with the guards. Leveraging his limited knowledge from law school,

• 33:54Vanessa Richardson?

  he also assisted his lawyer with his own legal defense. That granted him special privileges most other inmates didn't get, like the use of the legal library. Most importantly, it meant he could appear in court without shackles on. He argued that acting as his own lawyer while wearing chains would prejudice the jury against him. The judge granted his request, but it was all just a smokescreen, because Ted had no intention of attending his trial.

• 34:29Vanessa Richardson?

  On June 7th, 1977, he was called out of his cell for a pre-trial hearing. The day started out as planned, with Ted delivering some prepared remarks to the judge. When a mid-morning recess was called, he shuffled out of the courtroom and into the second-floor library. No one paid much attention to him, it was all business as usual. Ted casually walked around the room, edging towards a stack of books sitting near an open window. He leaned against the sill and took one last look to make sure no one was watching. Then, in a single, fluid motion, Ted leapt out of the window.

• 35:20Vanessa Richardson?

  On June 7th, 1977, Ted Bundy jumped out of a second-story window of Aspen's Pitkin County Courthouse. The 30-year-old took a hard fall into the bushes below and injured his ankle, but he could still walk. Ted shook himself off, limped toward the tree line, and ran into the woods before anyone realized he was gone. Despite an injured ankle, no supplies and no real plan, Ted Bundy survived in the Aspen Mountains for almost a week. Most of that time was spent wandering in circles. After five days on the run, he stole a car, but by then, he was delirious from lack of food.

• 36:03Vanessa Richardson?

  He swerved all over the road and was pulled over and sent back to prison. Naturally, the failed escape made him look pretty guilty. Once again, Ted's girlfriend Elizabeth cut off all contact with him, this time for good. But beyond that, he didn't face a lot of repercussions. Once Ted was back in his prison, the security around his cell wasn't increased, and the pre-trial hearings started back up.

• 36:32Tristin Engels?

  Having worked in prisons myself, I'm absolutely baffled by this. Anyone with an escape history, at least now, because I know this was in the 70s, but now is housed in a maximum-security setting, and all the safety measures are in place to ensure something like this doesn't happen.

• 36:51Vanessa Richardson?

  Unbeknownst to his guards at the time, Ted started planning his next escape almost immediately. He bribed a fellow prisoner to get him a hacksaw and solicited cash donations from friends and family. A former coworker named Carol Boone was a frequent visitor and happily smuggled money into prison for him. Carol was one of the many women Ted cheated on Elizabeth with, and their romance continued even after his kidnapping conviction. Her loyalty to Ted was unwavering. She was a smart woman, but emotionally vulnerable. Before she met him, she'd been through a rough divorce, and Ted played on her deep need for love.

• 37:35Vanessa Richardson?

  He spent years spinning her lies, convincing her he was completely innocent of every charge.

• 37:42Tristin Engels?

  I think we need to discuss just how convincing Ted is showing himself to be. He continues to use that superficial charm and that glibness to disarm the people around him, including law enforcement. The fact that the jail didn't take appropriate security precautions for an obvious flight risk is egregious from the perspective of standard operating procedure. But his ability to convince the actual custody officers that he wasn't a threat actually doesn't surprise me, and this is coming from someone who has been around custody. I mentioned earlier that one of the ways that Ted was so successful in his time was that he would use his privilege and systemic bias and racism to his advantage.

• 38:27Tristin Engels?

  Ted has an attraction, a conventional attractiveness to him. He's charming, and he's an intelligent, white man. If he is a person of color, I don't think that the guards would have bought into his manipulation or had been so easily influenced by him. When it comes to Carol, much like Elizabeth, he was able to prey upon her vulnerabilities and her own low sense of self-worth to keep her loyalty. She might have been attracted to the fact that Ted was incarcerated and charged with a heinous crime, and this is something called hybridophilia. And that typically afflicts people who have low self-esteem and feel secure in relationships with incarcerated individuals

• 39:11Tristin Engels?

  because they know where they are at all times.

• 39:15Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, by day, Ted spun lies to Carol Boone and schmoozed with the guards. But at night, he steadily sawed a hole in his ceiling. After months of work, it was only about one square foot in diameter. But by starving himself, Ted could just barely squeeze through. On December 30th, 1977, after six months of preparation, he was ready. That night, he wriggled into the ceiling, dropped down into a vacant jailer's apartment, and changed into street clothes. From there, he was able to walk out the front door to freedom. But after that, he didn't really have a plan.

• 39:56Vanessa Richardson?

  He took a bus to Denver, then grabbed a flight to Chicago using the cash he'd squirreled away. Tired of the cold and wanting to be as far as possible from the Pacific Northwest, he headed to Florida. He ended up in Tallahassee and used the last of his cash to rent a room in a boarding house near Florida State University. By then, a change had come over Ted. The reality of his situation had sunk in, and it wasn't pretty. With his face plastered all over the news, the charming mask he'd perfected over a lifetime was all but useless now. He was fueled by his violent urges and the eternal simmering rage inside him.

• 40:40Vanessa Richardson?

  The only thing he had left was murder.

• 40:45Tristin Engels?

  So I think we have a lot to unpack here. Ted spent months preparing for his escape, which included bribing people and having Carol smuggle in money. In all the obvious ways, he was very prepared for his escape, and he was successful. But because he also is impulsive, and because his need for stimulation is just so great and continues to become that much more intense, he clearly did not really think rationally about what to expect when he was successful. So in this moment, Ted is not only grappling with his compulsion to kill, but he's also realizing that this may be his last opportunity to do so.

• 41:28Tristin Engels?

  Not only are his odds of being caught high because he's nationally known, everyone is looking for him, but his odds of escaping jail or prison ever again were definitely nonexistent after two successful attempts, which let's just press once again how egregious that is. I still can't wrap my head around how officers did not see a hole being sawed in the ceiling of his cell. This is what I think, though, is driving Ted and what we're going to see happen in the next few weeks.

• 42:00Vanessa Richardson?

  So Ted holed up in Tallahassee for a week while detectives back in Colorado scrambled to pick up his trail. He kept to himself at the boarding house and most of the other residents gave him a wide berth. But by January 15, 1978, Ted couldn't take the isolation any longer. He wanted to become the monster again, to hurt someone. That night, he ventured out into the streets armed with a wooden club. At 3:00 in the morning, he entered a Florida state sorority house through a broken back door. He found 21-year-old Margaret Bowman sleeping in her room and pounced on her, beating and strangling her. Hardly pausing

• 42:44Vanessa Richardson?

  to take a breath, he then broke into the next room and beat 20-year-old Lisa Janet Levy to death. Even then, he wasn't done. He entered two other bedrooms and assaulted the women inside before fleeing the scene. Luckily, a sorority sister spotted him as he rushed out the back door and was able to call 911 in time to save their lives. While the cops responded to the scene at the sorority house, Ted broke into another apartment eight blocks away where he assaulted 21-year-old Cheryl Thomas. A neighbor heard the commotion through the wall and called for help. Ted ran before they arrived. Thankfully,

• 43:27Vanessa Richardson?

  Cheryl survived the attack, although it left her with a broken jaw and permanent hearing loss.

• 43:35Tristin Engels?

  And to think this could have all been avoided if the custody officers and the institution he was detained at took better security measures. It's just infuriating for these women and their family and certainly the communities.

• 43:48Vanessa Richardson?

  After that, Ted finally stopped. He took refuge in his rented room and hid from police, surviving the next week by stealing credit cards. On the morning of February 8th, 1977, the 30-year-old hijacked a van and traveled east towards Jacksonville. Ted knew he should lie low to avoid detection, but he couldn't or wouldn't control himself any longer, so he went looking for another victim. In the middle of a heavy rainstorm, Ted passed by Lake City Junior High School and pulled over. He could just make out a 12-year-old girl, Kimberly Leach, running through an open field towards the school.

• 44:33Vanessa Richardson?

  Kimberly was much younger than Ted's other victims, but at that point, he was past caring. He wanted to kill, and as long as his target couldn't fight back, he didn't care who they were.

• 44:46Tristin Engels?

  We should discuss this. This is a deviation from his normal pattern, so why is that? Ted is like a tornado right now, leaving carnage behind. The nation is aware he is on the loose. Police are investigating multiple crimes in his wake, crimes that happened in their residences. Ted's going to be easily spotted by most at this point, especially by adult women who are seeing the news and reading the paper. Ted's deviation to a minor is a combination of that and opportunity. Like you said, she was as vulnerable as one could get and as easy of a target he was going to encounter in those circumstances.

• 45:26Vanessa Richardson?

  Dr. Engels, it seems like by this point, he's all but given up on the planning that characterized his earlier murders. Do you think he was even trying to run from the police at this point? Was he just trying to commit as much violence as possible before he got caught?

• 45:40Tristin Engels?

  I think he knows that his capture is inevitable, and he can either spend his time trying to evade capture by lying low, or he could kill as much as he can before he is captured. Ted knows when he is finally caught, he will be restrained from ever engaging in his compulsions and these fantasies ever again. He's never gonna get out, he's never gonna escape. He will lose all control and power when he's detained, and that is what I think is driving this more than anything.

• 46:16Vanessa Richardson?

  After killing Kimberly Leach, Ted fled from town to town, stealing cars and credit cards whenever he could. His physical and mental state was rapidly deteriorating. It was only a matter of time before he slipped up. A week after killing Kimberly, on February 15, 1978, a police officer named David Lee found Ted by chance, loitering in a car outside Pensacola, Florida. Lee ran the license plates and realized the vehicle was stolen. He asked Ted to step out of the car and lay on the ground. At first, Ted cooperated, but when Lee tried to cuff him, he spun around and kicked the officer's feet out from under him.

• 47:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Then Ted tried to run, but he didn't get far. After another struggle, Lee pistol-whipped Ted and got him in cuffs. Ted's only words for him were, "I wish you had killed me." That was Ted Bundy's final arrest. In May of 1978, the 32-year-old was indicted on first-degree charges for the murders of Lisa Levy and Margaret Bowman at the Florida State Sorority House. He was offered a plea bargain, but refused it at the last minute. According to his lawyers, Ted couldn't face the prospect of publicly admitting guilt. He didn't want to expose the monster he really was.

• 47:44Vanessa Richardson?

  Instead, he used the trial to shape his public image, trying to come off as charming and intelligent, even when it sabotaged his own case. While he had multiple qualified attorneys, Ted insisted on leading his own defense, which he was legally entitled to do. It wasn't about winning. It was about rebuilding the respectable facade he'd obsessively crafted for himself.

• 48:12Tristin Engels?

  For someone who spent years doing his best to blend in and avoid being caught, he sure is loving the spotlight now.

• 48:19Vanessa Richardson?

  Hmm.

• 48:21Tristin Engels?

  But honestly, I wouldn't have expected anything less from him. Because to me, it's no surprise that a man who cares so much about image would want to use this opportunity to grandstand when the entire country is watching. It's the last of what is within his control when it comes to attention, image, and stimulation. He is definitely enjoying his ability to charm and manipulate the public because it's worked so far on Elizabeth, Carol, and law enforcement. He is enjoying this moment.

• 48:56Vanessa Richardson?

  Yeah, and Ted's showmanship certainly attracted attention. His trials were packed with reporters documenting his every move, and Ted did everything he could to entertain them. For example, after Ted was convicted of murdering 12-year-old Kimberly Leach, his girlfriend, Carol Boone, served as a character witness at the sentencing hearing. Carol was the one who smuggled cash into prison for Ted before his second prison escape. Even after all that, she was still firmly on his side. While she testified about his upstanding moral character, Ted used an obscure statute to declare the two married.

• 49:38Vanessa Richardson?

  According to Florida law, any declaration of marriage in the presence of a judge constituted a legal vow. It was really nothing more than a sideshow, and the judge wasn't amused. The very next day, on February 10, 1980, 33-year-old Ted Bundy was sentenced to death.

• 50:01Vanessa Richardson?

  He spent the last years of his life vying for infamy. As long as he was going down as a serial killer, he was gonna lean into it. To that end, Ted gave dozens of contradictory interviews to journalists, psychologists, and police officers. He likely made up lurid details about his life to win sympathy and increase his notoriety, but also because he just enjoyed tricking people. Since then, countless people have delved into these interviews to try and understand the essence of Ted Bundy. On the surface, he seemed to have so much going for him. He was clever, attractive, and charismatic. So what went wrong?

• 50:45Vanessa Richardson?

  One of the many psychiatrists who examined Ted was Dr. Emmanuel Tinnai, a professor at Wayne State University School of Medicine. He determined that while Ted spoke freely to him during their conversations, meaningful communication between them was nearly impossible. Ted was more interested in manipulating people than connecting with them.

• 51:08Tristin Engels?

  The finding and experience from Dr. Tinnai does not surprise me at all. I have had to evaluate serial killers, and regularly I encounter people who have similar pathologies as Ted, as though, obviously, not as severe. They are very superficial. Every interaction and behavior truly is motivated by personal or secondary gain. When I encounter anyone who I suspect has Cluster B personality traits, in particular antisocial personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder, one of the first things I notice is their arrogance and their grandiosity. They often attempt to dominate the conversation because they enjoy the power and the control,

• 51:51Tristin Engels?

  especially when they are meeting with an expert in psychiatry or psychology. They find it particularly stimulating to test our limits and see how far their manipulation skills can go with people trained to identify that. It's like a game, and at this point, he is simply finding thrills. Where he can. But Ted has spent his entire life carefully crafting an identity and an image because he lacked a genuine one. So that is not going to turn off whenever he is in a social setting. He doesn't know how to turn it off. And he is not doing this to genuinely know someone or make any sincere relationships because he's not capable of that. He is this way because it gets him what he wants.

• 52:38Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever Ted's angle was, it came to an end on January 24th, 1989, when he was executed by electric chair at the age of 42. Since then, he's become one of the most infamous serial killers of all time, the archetype of the charming neighbor hiding a secret dark side. It's true that Ted's good looks and friendly demeanor drew some of his victims in, but in reality, he always took advantage of people who were empathetic and compassionate. Despite having a family and friends who were willing to help him, Ted closed himself off and chose to take his childhood anger out on other people.

• 53:23Vanessa Richardson?

  He posed as an injured helpless man as a way to take his targets by surprise. Ted Bundy spent his life crafting a persona that was attractive and charming, but the true Ted Bundy was a coward and a liar without any real conscience.

• 53:56Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next Monday as we explore the mind of another serial killer.

• 54:03Tristin Engels?

  Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media at @CrimeHouse on Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 54:26Vanessa Richardson?

  And for ad-free and early access to Mind of a Serial Killer, plus exciting bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. We'll be back next Monday.

• 54:39Vanessa Richardson?

  Mind of a Serial Killer is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Mind of a Serial Killer team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Laurie Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Stacy Warrenker, Sarah Carroll, Terrell Wells, Beth Johnson, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 55:13Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.