Joji Obara: Thirty Years of Hidden Crimes in Japan Pt. 2

In July 2000, 21-year-old British hostess Lucie Blackman vanished after a date with a man she knew only as Mr. Kowa. In reality, he Joji Obara, a serial predator who had drugged and assaulted over 200 women across three decades in Japan. It was Lucie's own phone calls the night she disappeared, and the courage of his past victims who came forward, that finally brought Obara to justice. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow Serial Killers & Murderous Minds to never miss a case! Want all 2 parts of every case all at once? Join Crime House+ and get both parts of each case dropped together on Monday ad-free. Join atcrimehouseplus.com http://crimehouseplus.com or if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, tap “Try Free” at the top of this show’s page. Serial Killers & Murderous Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. 🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to other Crime House Originals Clues, Crimes Of Reddit, Murder True Crime Stories, Crime House 24/7, and more wherever you get your podcasts! Follow me on Social Instagram: @Crimehouse https://www.instagram.com/crimehouse/TikTok: @Crimehouse https://www.tiktok.com/@crimehouseFacebook: @crimehousestudios https://www.facebook.com/crimehousestudiosYouTube: @crimehousestudios https://www.youtube.com/@crimehousestudios

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  Lots of people dream of living abroad. They crave the excitement, adventure, and endless possibilities. For many, starting a life in a new country is the best decision they ever made. But for some, that dream can quickly spiral into a nightmare, especially if the next chapter turns out to be more dangerous than they imagined. In 2000, a young British woman named Lucie Blackman moved to Japan in search of new opportunities. But her dreams were cut short when she crossed paths with Joji Obara, a serial rapist, whose attacks were not only brutal and dehumanizing, they sometimes turned deadly. Joji thought

• 1:24Vanessa Richardson?

  nothing would ever put an end to his crimes, so when Lucy fell into his clutches, he unleashed total violence. However, he had no idea that Lucy's story would be his own undoing, and that his past victims would find a way to stop him once and for all.

• 1:57Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 2:12Tristin Engels?

  And I'm forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Ingles. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

• 2:22Vanessa Richardson?

  Crime House exists because of listeners like you. Want even more? Join Crime House Plus and get both parts of every story dropped on the same Monday, completely ad-free. No waiting three days for part two, plus Crime House bonus episodes every month. To join, go to crimehouseplus.com, or if you listen on Apple Podcasts, tap "Try Free" at the top of the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds page. Before we get started, be advised that this episode contains discussion of date rape, sexual violence, death, and dismemberment, so please listen with care. Today, we conclude our deep dive into Joji Obara, a Japanese

• 3:01Vanessa Richardson?

  serial rapist who drugged and assaulted hundreds of women over the course of 30 years. Joji documented his crimes in writing, photos, and video, and eventually, his need to have complete control over women resulted not only in rape, but in death.

• 3:19Tristin Engels?

  As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like what drives some offenders to plant fake evidence and tell half-truths, what an offender's body language might suggest about their mentality, and how some victims overcome their own fear and shame in order to help others.

• 3:36Vanessa Richardson?

  And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?

• 3:47Vanessa Richardson?

  By the year 2000, 47-year-old Joji Obara had drugged and raped over 200 women over the last 30 years. Joji primarily targeted nightclub hostesses, whose job was to make men feel important and seen. He'd invite them on dates outside of the club and proceed to drug or chloroform them, then videotape his brutal attacks. When he was done, Joji often recorded the details of each encounter in his diary. Most of the time, the women had no idea what had happened when they woke up. Joji simply told them they'd fallen asleep from a gas leak, gave them cab fare, and sent them on their way. However, some women knew what he'd done, but authorities either didn't believe them, or they felt too ashamed

• 4:32Vanessa Richardson?

  to go to the police in the first place, which meant Joji continued to act with impunity. And in 1992, he'd taken his violence to new extremes, when he repeatedly chloroformed a young woman named Karida Ridgeway, resulting in her death. Doctors believed Karida had died of liver failure, and while that explanation never sat right with her family, there was nothing they could do. There was no evidence linking Joji to any sort of crime, so he remained a free man. And in the spring of 2000, his urges were as out of control as ever. It all started when 21-year-old Lucie Blackman moved to Japan. Lucy had graduated

• 5:15Vanessa Richardson?

  high school in the UK four years earlier, and she'd struggled to nail down a stable career since then. She was racking up debt when her friend Louise suggested they move to Japan to become nightclub hostesses. Louise knew someone who'd done it, and she told Lucy they could make a lot of money, so the two women moved to Tokyo in May of 2000. Shortly after they arrived, they met a woman who Richard Lloyd Perry refers to as Krista Mackenzie in his book, People Who Eat Darkness. Krista worked as a hostess and recommended a few clubs. However, what she didn't tell them was how dangerous the line of work could be. Five years earlier, Krista had taken Joji as a client, and he

• 5:57Vanessa Richardson?

  eventually drugged and raped her. At the time, she blamed herself for what had happened, and never went to the police. Now, she buried that painful memory deep down in order to move forward with her life.

• 6:14Tristin Engels?

  People often assume that if something this serious happened, that they would immediately warn everyone they could. But trauma just doesn't work that way at all. In episode one, we talked about how Krista blamed herself for what happened and why so many survivors often do. And for someone carrying the kind of shame that she was carrying, talking like that can mean re-traumatizing themselves, especially if they've not had any support. Survivors often describe feeling as though they're right back in the experience when they do, remembering details that they worked hard to forget, or feeling the same fear, shame, or helplessness all over again. That's one reason disclosure can feel so overwhelming. It isn't just remembering everything that happened to them. It can feel like emotionally

• 6:57Tristin Engels?

  reliving it. Krista also had no reason to believe that Joji would become one of the most prolific serial sexual offenders that were ever identified. And from what we know, which is not a lot about her life, this was her only dangerous experience working there. If Krista thought this was an isolated incident, then why would she warn these girls regarding the line of work as a whole? Instead, she'd be more likely to teach them how to be more aware and generally safe. So, that said, her focus was likely on staying functional and finding a new normal for herself. And when or if people ask why she didn't warn anyone, I think it's worth considering what speaking up would have required of her, and

• 7:42Tristin Engels?

  to also remember everything that we've talked about so far in episode one, including what happened to Katie when she did speak up, and then redirect those questions to the man responsible.

• 7:53Vanessa Richardson?

  In general, are victims more likely to come forward if they know something similar has happened to other people?

• 8:00Tristin Engels?

  Yes. We talked about how incredibly isolating a sexual assault can be because of the self-blame, the guilt and the shame that comes with it. But when they learn that someone else has gone through the same thing, they often begin to reevaluate their own experience. Because seeing that and recognizing that it's not an isolated incident, that can help reduce self-blame, and it can increase confidence, especially in their own memory. And it can make talking about it feel less terrifying or isolating. Also, research consistently finds that concerns about not being believed, self-blame, and negative reactions are major barriers to reporting the assault to begin with. But validation and supportive responses

• 8:44Tristin Engels?

  make disclosure more likely.

• 8:48Vanessa Richardson?

  Unaware of what had happened to Krista, Lucy and Louise thanked her for the recommendations. And just a few days later, they got jobs as hostesses at the Casablanca nightclub. Lucy took easily to hostessing. She was vivacious, yet poised, and she quickly built up a regular clientele, including a man who introduced himself as Mr. Kowah, who in reality was Joji Obara, using an alias. The night they met, Joji and Lucy seemed to have a good time at the club. And before he left, he asked if he could take her out on a date sometime. Lucy knew that outside dates were where the real money came from, so she said yes. About a week later, on July 1st, Joji picked up Lucy and drove her to the Zushi Marina,

• 9:33Vanessa Richardson?

  a swanky neighborhood where he owned an apartment and where he carried out many of his attacks. Joji treated Lucy to dinner at his apartment. Then about two hours into their date, she used Joji's cellphone to call Louise and let her know where she was. They made plans to meet up later that night. Before hanging up, Lucy said she'd check in again later. Then Lucy called her boyfriend and left him a voicemail to let him know where she was and what time she'd be seeing Louise. Afterward, Joji invited her to his apartment for a drink. He also presented her with some lavish gifts, including an expensive bottle of champagne. Lucy was excited. She excused herself and called Louise again

• 10:15Vanessa Richardson?

  to say she wanted to pop open the bottle together later that night.

• 10:20Tristin Engels?

  I think a lot of women have been in a situation where we've told more than one person where we're going, who we're with, and when we expect to be home. And maybe men too, I don't know. I can speak for a woman's experience. But it's almost second nature. It's safety behavior. Now, we can't say for certain that's why Lucy made those calls or that she sensed something was wrong. But you mentioned that she understood that outside dates were where the real money was. It's also possible that she understood that they came with greater risk. Because once she left Casablanca, she also left the relative safety of being in a public space with her coworkers and maybe even security, which was nearby. So in that context,

• 11:04Tristin Engels?

  letting her boyfriend know, letting Louise know where she was, those could have been those same safety behaviors. We use them in unknown or potentially vulnerable situations. At the same time, I don't think her behavior suggests that she believed she was in imminent danger either. She wasn't saying goodbye to Joji. She was making plans with Louise for after her date with him. That seems like the action of someone who fully expected to leave that night safely. She'd just gone to a high-scale apartment complex with a man and received an expensive bottle of champagne and then wanted to call Louise to tell her about it and share it with her. That could have also been celebratory. Nothing about her behavior indicates, at least to me,

• 11:48Tristin Engels?

  that she felt she was in imminent danger or she wasn't coming home. And that's what's really tragic about this. She appears to have taken reasonable precautions and still believed the evening would end the way that she expected it to.

• 12:03Vanessa Richardson?

  Despite Lucy's intuition, Joji was still a step ahead. So nobody knows for sure what happened next. But once Lucy returned, Joji may have poured her a drink. She would have taken a sip and within no time, the drugs now in her system would have knocked her out. Once Lucy was unconscious, Joji assaulted her and he continually chloroformed her. Because just like Karita Ridgway years earlier, Lucy often seemed to be waking up. The constant chloroform was what killed Karita. But Joji didn't seem to care. However, Lucy's friend Louise did care what was going on. She had an uneasy feeling. It had only been an hour since she'd spoken to Lucy, but she had a nagging feeling that something wasn't right.

• 12:49Vanessa Richardson?

  And when she dialed the number Lucy had called her from, no one picked up. So Louise rushed to the Casablanca in case Lucy's date had brought her there, but no one had seen her. Their coworkers tried to calm her down. They said Lucy had probably decided to spend the night with her date. But Louise knew Lucy had no plans of doing that. Growing more frantic, Louise raced to different clubs nearby in hopes of finding her friend. Still, Lucy was nowhere to be found. Eventually, Louise realized she should probably go to the police. However, that was easier said than done. She and Lucy were on tourist visas, which meant it was illegal for them to be working. If she told police the full story, they could get into trouble.

• 13:33Tristin Engels?

  Louise was in an impossible lose-lose situation because on one hand is the fear that something terrible has happened to her friend and on the other is the fear of what might happen if she involved the authorities. Both of those options carry risk. And this does often affect investigations too. People are constantly doing risk calculation, even when it comes to reporting a crime or giving a witness statement. Immigration status is one common barrier, but criminal involvement, outstanding warrants, employment reputation and financial security are all other common barriers to reporting to law enforcement. If these carry risk to someone's livelihood and that risk outweighs the benefit, for whatever reason that that person calculates,

• 14:17Tristin Engels?

  the more likely they are to hesitate, delay, or deny any knowledge to law enforcement. And it's a very tragic position. No one should have to choose between reporting a crime and protecting themselves from retaliation, regardless of their circumstances.

• 14:31Vanessa Richardson?

  In general, what risks or ramifications come up when people feel unsafe speaking to police?

• 14:36Tristin Engels?

  I mean, some of the obvious ones are the delays in reporting and incomplete information for investigators and what that does to an actual investigation. There's fewer corroborating witnesses for an actual investigation that they're actively working on right now or reduced offender accountability. Certainly, loss of trust in systems, which is a big one if you don't feel safe reporting to them because you're afraid that you're going to be retaliated against or arrested for something else. And obviously, public safety risks because if there's no actual accountability that's being taken, then there's a continued risk to the public.

• 15:16Vanessa Richardson?

  Louise had to think of a cover story, and fast. She had a bad feeling that she was running out of time, and she was right. While she was searching for her friend, Joji was also in a panic because Lucy wouldn't wake up. He tried multiple times to rouse her, but it was no use. He'd taken another life. Joji knew he needed to cover his tracks, and he was about to take his most extreme measures yet.

• 15:52Vanessa Richardson?

  In July of 2000, 47-year-old Joji Obara drugged and raped 21-year-old Lucie Blackman. And just like years earlier with Karita Ridgway, Joji had used so much chloroform on Lucy that he killed her. Unlike Karita, who died at the hospital, Lucy was dead in his apartment. He couldn't bring her anywhere. He had to figure out a plan B. He spent the entire night racking his brain for a way out of the mess he'd created. And by morning, he landed on an idea. Joji went out in search of supplies, including a chainsaw, shovel, and cement. His plan was to dismember Lucy's body, destroy her remains, and bury all the evidence.

• 16:36Vanessa Richardson?

  While Joji got to work, Louise had formed a plan of her own. She enlisted the help of a Japanese waiter at the Casablanca club. They went to the police station together, where the waiter told officers that their friend Lucy had gone out on a date with a man but was now missing. Unfortunately, Louise's plan didn't work. The police shrugged them off. So she upped the ante and went to the British Embassy. She told them what had happened and embassy personnel contacted police themselves to report a possible abduction. But the police still didn't budge. They refused to search for Lucy. Louise returned home, disheartened and unsure what to do next. Then, her phone rang. It was an unknown number,

• 17:20Vanessa Richardson?

  just like the one Lucy had called her from while she was on her date. Louise picked up on the first ring. But this time, it wasn't Lucy on the other end. It was a man who introduced himself as Akira Takagi, who said he was calling on Lucy's behalf. In reality, it was Joji calling from one of the many burner phones he kept at his disposal. But Louise didn't know that. She immediately asked where Lucy was. And that's when Joji told her that Lucy had run off to join a cult. Louise wasn't buying it, but she played along. She demanded more information about the cult, but Joji cut her off with a final message. He told her she'd never see Lucy again. Then, he hung up.

• 18:06Tristin Engels?

  This reminded me of our discussion in episode one about Karida's family, because this behavior is remarkably similar. Once again, Joji appears to insert himself into the narrative. There are several possible reasons he might be doing that now. One is to redirect the investigation. By claiming Lucy had willingly joined a cult, he's planting an alternative explanation for her disappearance before anyone else has one. Investigators often have to consider multiple possibilities early in a case, even unlikely ones. And in that sense, he's attempting to anchor the story from the very beginning. Another possibility is that he's trying to control the narrative after the crime,

• 18:48Tristin Engels?

  just as we've seen him repeatedly try to control other people's perceptions throughout his life. What's also interesting is that he didn't stay silent again, just like Karida's family. Silence would have left Louise to draw her own conclusions. But calling her directly, he's attempting to influence those conclusions before anyone else can. And the choice of a cult is particularly interesting, because it suggests that it's something voluntary, when what happened to Lucy was anything but voluntary. It also provides an explanation for why someone would suddenly disappear and stop contacting the people who loved her. Cult members are isolated from family and friends,

• 19:30Tristin Engels?

  making the story just plausible enough to be a reasonable consideration. But notice how that changes the conversation, though. Instead of everyone asking what happened to her, people are going to start asking, well, why would she do that? It shifts the focus from his actions, or what they would suspect, or what might have happened to her, to her choices. And again, there's victim blaming and victim shaming occurring.

• 19:58Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think Joji did this out of a need for control? Or do you think he just gets a thrill out of this kind of behavior?

• 20:05Tristin Engels?

  I mean, given what we know about his need to shape perceptions, control seems very likely. I mean, the phone call wasn't necessary, which means there's another reason for why he made it. Not just in Lucy's case, but Karida's too. And as for whether he got a thrill, that's harder to say. Some offenders do experience a thrill from deceiving others or manipulating an investigation, but I don't know that that is the case with Joji. He's only done that in the two cases involving homicide, even though he's committed hundreds of sexual assaults. If he got a thrill out of tormenting or taunting, he could easily have done that with these women, but from what we know, he didn't. That said, Joji benefited from the fact

• 20:49Tristin Engels?

  that sexual violence is already surrounded by shame, self-blame, and skepticism. He exploited that, it worked to his advantage. But a disappearance is different. People immediately start asking questions. Friends notice, family notices, police become involved. And that's when we see him step in and begin managing the narrative directly, and not any other time, because it's new territory for him. He's less confident. So I think that is his attempt at reclaiming control of the situation, rather than a need for gratification.

• 21:19Vanessa Richardson?

  Joji felt like he'd tied up every loose end, and with that, he got ready to dispose of Lucy's body. He piled all the supplies, as well as Lucy's body, into his Mercedes and drove to a beachside apartment he owned about 16 miles from Zushi Marina. There, he dismembered Lucy's body, submerged her head in cement, and placed everything in garbage bags. Joji then hauled everything outside and buried it all in a cave underneath a cliff. Meanwhile, Lucy's family was just getting started. They'd traveled to Japan to try and find her. They'd gone straight to the police when they arrived, but were met with the same resistance as Louise. Officers told them women went missing all the time,

• 22:02Vanessa Richardson?

  and that it wasn't worth looking into every disappearance. Lucy's family was aghast. Her father, Tim, wasn't willing to give up. He thought if the police wouldn't listen, maybe the media would. The G8 summit was taking place in Japan that same month. Various world leaders, including British Prime Minister Tony Blair, would soon be meeting face to face in a highly-publicized event. Tim felt that if he could get Lucy's story into the British headlines, maybe Prime Minister Blair would put pressure on the Japanese authorities. So Tim quickly contacted the media. He expressed his family's extreme worry and agony, and it worked. Soon, Lucy's face appeared in every British newspaper, magazine, and TV headline.

• 22:47Vanessa Richardson?

  Just like Tim had hoped, Tony Blair publicly confronted the Japanese Prime Minister, which called attention to the lack of police effort in Lucy's case. Now, there was a ton of public scrutiny on Japanese law enforcement, and they finally launched an investigation. However, it seems like Joji may have realized what was happening, because around this same time, authorities started receiving typed letters, signed "from Lucy." The letters claimed Lucy didn't want to be found, but when police showed them to her family, they knew right away the letters weren't hers. The writing was stilted, unnatural. The signature didn't match, and one of the letters was dated on her boyfriend's birthday, which the writer didn't acknowledge.

• 23:32Tristin Engels?

  And this is really an extension of what we just talked about. Joji appears to be losing control of the narrative, and now it's happening on a much larger scale. Public attention is growing. Police are involved, and he's doubling down on the same story that Lucy left voluntarily. If investigators were to buy into that and believe it, then their urgency, and their priorities, and their resources would change dramatically in his favor. But think about some of the cases that we've covered on this show. There have been instances where true missing persons were initially classified as runaways, or victims were discounted because of who they were or what they did for a living. Remember the Jeff Davis eight?

• 24:16Tristin Engels?

  If these accounts are accurate, Joji appears to be, again, trying to exploit those same vulnerabilities by encouraging police to view Lucy's disappearance as voluntary, and then shaping her character. But this presented a challenge, because he hadn't really faced this before. He can manage perceptions of himself, but as someone else, that's a lot harder and a lot trickier. Like you said, he's using unnatural language. You know, he doesn't know her signature, and he's missing a significant birthday. All of those are details that will be noticed. And again, what's most interesting about this is that he did not have to do any of it. Staying silent was probably the objectively lower-risk option for him,

• 25:01Tristin Engels?

  but he inserts himself into the investigation again, attempting to influence how the case was understood. But that's his pattern.

• 25:10Vanessa Richardson?

  The forged letters made police realize that Lucy was in the hands of someone truly dangerous, and that she may not be found alive. Realizing how much time they'd wasted, they scaled up their efforts, including keeping the story in the media as much as possible. In late July of 2000, many young women had seen the news. They felt for Lucy, especially those who saw themselves in her, women her age who worked similar types of jobs. But some women identified with Lucy on a deeper and darker level, because when they heard the story, they couldn't shake the feeling that whoever was behind Lucy's disappearance had attacked them too. Four women each experienced the same gut reaction.

• 25:54Vanessa Richardson?

  Richard Lloyd Perry calls them Krista Mackenzie, Katie Vickers, Isabel Parker, and Clara Mendez. Each woman worked as a nightclub hostess, and for the last few years, they'd each gone on dates with a mysterious man, went back to his apartment, fell unconscious unexpectedly, and woke up feeling like something terrible had happened to them. Katie was the only one who'd tried to report her assault when it occurred. Now, she returned to the station, adamant her story might help with Lucy's investigation. And while Krista had met Lucy when Lucy first arrived in Japan, it's unclear whether she shared that detail with detectives. But all four women told detectives exactly what they'd experienced.

• 26:37Vanessa Richardson?

  Investigators took diligent notes, and by now, they'd become aware of Lucy's job as a hostess. However, they didn't see a direct connection between the women's stories and Lucy's disappearance. So they thanked the women and sent them on their way. But that didn't mean the police were giving up. Louise had told them about her phone calls with Lucy during her date, and the recent one she'd received where a man claimed Lucy had joined a cult. Investigators pored through phone records and eventually triangulated the location of the calls. They'd each come from Zushi Marina. Once they had this information, police realized they needed Katie, Krista, Isabel, and Clara after all. In late August,

• 27:21Vanessa Richardson?

  detectives drove the women to Zushi Marina to see if they recognized it as the place where they'd been assaulted. And each woman confirmed this was where their attacker had brought them.

• 27:33Tristin Engels?

  In episode one, we talked about how when survivors see there is a pattern or that they're not alone, it reduces self-blame and it can increase confidence. Well, now there are four different women who have heard Lucy's story, and they have such a strong gut feeling that they've all been victimized by the same person. Imagine what these women had been carrying for years. They each likely had some fragments of their experience that they've been doubting or struggling to understand. He intentionally drugged these women so that their memory made them doubt themselves. Then they learn that other women described the same man, the same tactics, and here they are, standing in the very place where it happened.

• 28:15Tristin Engels?

  It's like finally putting those fragments together and into a coherent picture. Even if it's a picture you don't necessarily want to see, it's a confirming one. Their mind and body were not deceiving them, and they can finally see that this wasn't their fault. Self-blame decreases, and now they also have validation and support to go with it. That can be more powerful than the fear, shame, or self-doubt they've been living in, especially when there are strength in numbers, because they can then reevaluate the threat. If there are more of them, they're thinking they are more likely to be believed, less likely to be blamed, more likely to be taken seriously,

• 29:00Tristin Engels?

  and more likely to get results, especially knowing if it can help other people. And that's why these women, I think, came together when they did. And that's why a lot of women speak out so much later, strengths in numbers.

• 29:16Vanessa Richardson?

  Now that investigators knew they were looking for someone who lived in Zushi Marina, they ran criminal checks on everyone who owned an apartment there. Pretty soon, they got a hit. A man named Joji Obara had been arrested in 1998 for spying on a woman in a public restroom. The predatory nature of that crime not only related to Lucy's disappearance, but Joji's mugshot was on file. They thought they may have identified their suspect. In September, detectives showed Katie, Krista, Isabelle, and Clara photo lineups. Every single woman identified Joji as their attacker. Joji had spent decades cultivating new identities under countless fake names,

• 30:00Vanessa Richardson?

  but now the authorities knew exactly who they were looking for. It was just a matter of whether they could catch him before he struck again.

• 30:20Vanessa Richardson?

  In late September of 2000, Tokyo detectives were on the hunt for Joji Obara in relation to Lucie Blackman's disappearance. Four of Joji's past victims had all identified the 48-year-old as the man who drugged and assaulted them years earlier. Unfortunately, the police had no idea it was already too late to save Joji's latest victim, Lucie Blackman. Joji had buried her remains in a cave near one of his apartment homes, but that didn't stop authorities from zeroing in on Joji. In early October of 2000, detectives started tailing Joji. They watched his every move, and soon they learned that he'd bought a boat, which was significant.

• 31:03Vanessa Richardson?

  Joji hadn't shown any interest in sailing before. The investigators believed he'd gotten the boat as a way to dispose of evidence in the ocean. Sailings had to be registered in advance with the marina, so detectives checked the logs and discovered that Joji planned to take his new boat out on October 12th. They believed that was the day he was planning to dispose of Lucy's remains, and they needed to arrest him before that could happen. The only problem was that they didn't have enough evidence to warrant an arrest in connection with Lucy's disappearance. However, they did have enough evidence to arrest him for Clara's abduction and assault that occurred in March of 1996. So in the early morning hours of October 12th,

• 31:48Vanessa Richardson?

  the police followed Joji as he prepared to set sail. Soon, they closed in on him at a nearby corner store. He had no idea they were there, but when he heard them say his name, Joji immediately knew it was all over. His body shook as sweat beaded on his forehead.

• 32:08Tristin Engels?

  That physiological reaction he's having with the notable sweat, assuming it's not secondary to him doing anything physically strenuous, is consistent with an acute stress response. When the brain perceives a threat, the sympathetic nervous system activates almost instantly. Adrenaline is released, heart rate increases, blood is redirected to the muscles, and the body prepares to respond for survival. Sweating is a common part of that response because it helps regulate body temperature as it prepares for action. But that said, a physiological response like his is not a reliable indicator of guilt, because an innocent person in that same position could have a very similar reaction.

• 32:51Tristin Engels?

  Imagine you're walking on a dock and police walked up to you. That could be very jarring.

• 32:56Vanessa Richardson?

  Based on Joji's physical reaction, was there any part of him you think might have actually wanted to get caught? Does it suggest anything about his possible feelings of guilt or maybe shame for what he'd been doing for the last 30 years?

• 33:09Tristin Engels?

  I don't think there's anything behaviorally that suggests Joji has ever wanted to get caught. In fact, I think his behavior has consistently suggested the opposite. He disguised himself, he uses fake names and aliases, he manipulated and exploited vulnerable women, changed identities, contacted families to influence the narrative, and tried to shape all, like, those two investigations at least. And in this moment, as far as we know, he's attempting to try to conceal Lucy's body. At least, that's the allegation. He dismembered her and has purchased a boat so that he can dispose of her in a way that reduces risk of discovery, especially since the narrative he wants her family and authorities to buy into

• 33:52Tristin Engels?

  is that she is alive and voluntarily chose no contact by joining a cult. There is far more evidence here to support behavior of someone trying to avoid being caught, not wanting to be caught, in my opinion.

• 34:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Joji wasn't the only one with a strong reaction. News of his arrest made headlines all over the world. And in Australia, a man named Robert Finnegan couldn't believe his eyes when he read the full story. Joji's alleged crimes highly resembled what had happened to Robert's girlfriend eight years earlier, Karita Ridgway. At the time, authorities believed Karita had died from liver failure. Neither Robert nor Karita's family believed that could be true. And now, Robert knew there was more to the story, so he called the Australian Embassy in Tokyo to put pressure on the police to look into Karita's death with fresh eyes. In the meantime, the authorities had Joji in custody. They asked him where Lucy was and what happened to her.

• 34:52Vanessa Richardson?

  Joji said he didn't know. He said he had nothing to do with her disappearance and that he'd only met Lucy once at the Casablanca. But Joji's lies wouldn't hold up for long, because police were searching each of his properties. And the first time they entered one of his homes, they were horrified. Joji had a large number of videotapes, which contained hours of footage of his brutal attacks on women. As they continued searching his other apartments, they found more tapes, along with his own written accounts of his attacks, from 1970 to 1995. In all, they found a total of 15,000 pieces of evidence, including the tapes, diaries, Joji's list of aliases,

• 35:37Vanessa Richardson?

  the drugs and chloroform he used to incapacitate his victims, and strands of women's hair. From there, detectives had to look through every single video recording. And eventually, Robert Finnegan's fears were confirmed, because officers found footage of Karita Ridgway's assault and murder. It was clear that the sheer amount of chloroform Joji had used was what led to her death. Unfortunately, one thing investigators didn't find was any video footage of Lucy, but they did find other clues tying her to Joji, including hundreds of strands of her blonde hair in his Zushi Marina apartment, along with recent receipts for cement, chainsaw, and a shovel.

• 36:22Vanessa Richardson?

  Investigators now felt more certain than ever that Joji was behind Lucy's disappearance, even though he still denied meeting her more than once.

• 36:32Tristin Engels?

  Something that some offenders will do when they feel the need to manage the narrative is to tell half-truths. It's a common feature in deception. Joji mixes some truth in with his deception. He did that with Karita's family, the Ridgways, which we, again, talked about in episode one. He contacted them, claimed to have been in love with Karita, brought them jewelry that he claimed to have planned to give her, and then gave them an explanation of what happened to her to influence them. And he's doing it again here with Lucy. He admits meeting her, but he minimizes the extent of it, and then he denies any involvement in her disappearance. He provides just enough truth to make the deceptive parts seem believable.

• 37:14Tristin Engels?

  And this tactic makes the lies easier to maintain if it's anchored to something true. It also gives him room to shift the facts a little when he's faced with new evidence, which is often the case in situations when you're lying. It's a common deceptive tactic, and it's often done to preserve credibility, to maintain flexibility in your lie so that they can adjust and pivot as needed, and then shape other people's interpretation or perception of him and the facts. And the goal of this is almost always self-interest.

• 37:49Vanessa Richardson?

  Joji may have thought he was covering his tracks, but police weren't buying his half-truths and denials. They realized they were going to have to find Lucy without Joji's help, and they were becoming less hopeful they'd find her alive. In early 2001, police began searching the areas around Joji's many properties. By February 5th, they'd made their way to his beachside home and checked into a nearby hotel. They believed it would take about a month to search the entire area. They started combing the beach as soon as possible, and on the morning of February 9th, a group of officers noticed some debris submerged in the sand inside a small cave. They found this unusual and started digging inside the cave.

• 38:34Vanessa Richardson?

  Suddenly, one of their shovels hit a hard object. They brushed the sand away and uncovered a clear, plastic garbage bag. When they opened the bag, they were appalled, because inside, they found human limbs. One of the officers immediately called their supervisor and told them they'd found Lucy. Officers were devastated, but they found consolation in the fact that they could now file official charges against Joji. Authorities wanted to go after Joji for as much as they could. They charged him with two counts of rape resulting in death for Karita Ridgway and Lucie Blackman. They also charged him with eight other counts of rape for other victims,

• 39:17Vanessa Richardson?

  including Clara Mendez and Katie Vickers, along with six other women who chose to keep their identities private. They decided not to press charges for Krista and Isabel's attacks because they didn't feel they had enough evidence, and they wanted to ensure their case was airtight. In July 2001, almost one year to the day after Lucy had disappeared, Joji's trial began. Many of his victims were called to testify, but they were allowed to give their testimony in private to avoid being in the same room as Joji.

• 39:51Tristin Engels?

  All right, so we briefly talked about re-traumatization. The courts recognize that that's a risk as well. And depending on the jurisdiction, the circumstances of the case and the judge's ruling, victims of sexual offenses may sometimes be permitted to testify in ways that can reduce re-traumatizing them while still protecting the defendant's right to a fair trial. And remember, if a defendant doesn't receive a fair trial and they're convicted, the conviction itself can be challenged and ultimately overturned. So it's important. At the same time, the court also wants to remove unnecessary barriers that could prevent a survivor from providing complete and accurate testimony.

• 40:36Tristin Engels?

  It can be very difficult for survivors to talk about their traumatic experience. But imagine describing one of the worst moments of your life in a crowded courtroom in front of the person responsible while being questioned by attorneys whose job is to challenge your account and your credibility. Court is by nature an adversarial environment. Some survivors, in high-profile cases especially, can keep their identities private, like you said, because public attention can bring intense scrutiny and harassment, victim blaming and shaming especially. An arrest doesn't suddenly make those reactions disappear. I'm sure you've seen that happen

• 41:19Tristin Engels?

  in high-profile cases like Jeffrey Epstein case and Harvey Weinstein. Those are the more recent ones. Survivors often still face criticism and personal attacks even when charges have been filed and a judge has felt there was enough evidence to proceed. Our justice system is built on the presumption of innocence before proven guilty for the accused, but that same commitment to fairness should also mean resisting the urge to judge a victim's credibility before the evidence has been presented and that they've had the opportunity to be heard as well.

• 41:52Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think it's possible for victims to give more reliable testimony if they feel safer in the moment?

• 41:59Tristin Engels?

  Yes, it's well documented that trauma can affect concentration, emotional regulation, and memory retrieval, particularly when someone feels threatened and overwhelmed, and a courtroom can certainly do that. Appropriate accommodations are intended to reduce that kind of distress so survivors can provide the most complete and reliable testimony possible. There are also victim advocates. In many cases, they're available through the district attorney's office, and there are also community-based organizations and rape crisis centers that can provide them as well. Everything varies by state and jurisdiction, though.

• 42:39Tristin Engels?

  Their role isn't to influence testimony or tell survivors what to say. They don't do anything like that. They're there to explain the process, to provide emotional support, connect them with resources, and help them navigate the justice system because it can be very overwhelming for anyone, anyone, but particularly for them. Imagine the difference between walking into a courtroom completely alone versus walking in with someone who has been beside you throughout the process. That advocate has already answered all of your questions, explained what to expect, helped you navigate the system and become someone familiar and supportive

• 43:22Tristin Engels?

  in just an entirely intimidating experience. And familiarity reduces uncertainty, and reducing uncertainty can make it easier for survivors to remain more emotionally regulated in a courtroom, especially when they're giving their testimony. With that said, I'd like to take a moment to thank all of our victim advocates out there and all of our sane nurses because you are all doing amazing work that deserves much more acknowledgement. And I would like to take a moment to acknowledge you all right now. So thank you.

• 43:56Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though many of the victims chose not to speak before the full courtroom, their stories had a lot of impact. And from there, prosecutors presented the mountain of evidence they had against Joji. That's when it became clear how extensive Joji's case was, and his trial carried on for six years. Part of this was because in Japan, trial hearings were held once a month, not daily. In addition, Joji himself caused a lot of the delay. He constantly butted heads with his defense team, and after just three months, all of his attorneys quit. Another year went by before Joji could find a new team of lawyers to work with him. By 2007, the wait was finally over, and on April 24th of that year,

• 44:41Vanessa Richardson?

  a panel of three judges found Joji Obara guilty of the rape of eight women, including Katie Vickers and Clara Mendez, as well as rape resulting in death in the case of Karita Ridgway. However, members of the courtroom were shocked when the panel acquitted Joji of Lucie Blackman's rape and murder. The court explained that they'd based their decision on the fact that there was no video evidence of Lucy's attack, and even though her hair was found in his apartment, there was no forensic evidence linking Joji to her death. Still, this didn't stop Joji from facing the harshest possible sentencing. For all of his convictions, he received life in prison.

• 45:25Vanessa Richardson?

  This was good news for many of the victims and their loved ones, not to mention the general public. However, Lucy's family was distraught at the lack of justice for her. Fortunately, her story wasn't over yet. The prosecution filed an appeal for the verdict in Lucy's case, and while Japan's high court seemed to agree there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of her murder, they felt there was plenty of evidence for other aspects of the attack. On December 16th, 2008, the high court overturned the acquittal. They convicted Joji for Lucy's abduction, drugging, attempted rape, and the dismemberment and abandonment of her body.

• 46:05Vanessa Richardson?

  As of this recording, Joji Obara remains alive and behind bars. Although he was not convicted of Lucie Blackman's murder, it was Lucy and her loved ones who stopped this 30-year streak of terror. Had it not been for Lucy's phone calls the night of the attack and her loved ones unwillingness to stop searching for her, police may never have zeroed in on Joji's apartment at Zushi Marina. And if it weren't for the women who bravely came forward when they heard Lucy's story, authorities may never have uncovered Joji's real identity, the one thing he'd always tried to keep hidden.

• 47:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer.

• 47:06Tristin Engels?

  Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at @CrimeHouse. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Serial Killers and Murderous Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 47:30Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, join Crime House Plus and get both parts of every story dropped on the same Monday completely ad-free. No waiting three days for part two, plus Crime House bonus episodes every month. To join, go to crimehouseplus.com, or if you listen on Apple Podcasts, tap "Try Free" at the top of the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds page. Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds team:

• 48:11Vanessa Richardson?

  Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Camp, Alyssa Fox, Dana Rossi, Sarah Bachelor, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 48:29Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.