Semen Retention: Should You Stop Ejaculating?

With “No Nut November” right around the corner, it's time to ask: What are the benefits of saving your seed and not ejaculating? People say that it'll boost your testosterone, giving you better libido — and even making your skin glow. Some say you'll feel like a beast, your energy is gonna be insane and it'll even improve the quality of your sperm. Is all this true?? And are there any risks when it comes to leaving your nut unbusted? We speak to urologist and andrologist Dr. Justin Dubin and reproductive endocrinologist and fertility specialist Dr. Brent Hanson, alongside special guest comedian Suren Jayemanne. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsSemenRetention In this episode, we cover: (00:00) The idea behind saving your seed (07:43) The idea of semen retention is huge online (09:52)  Can semen retention bump up your testosterone? (15:45) Can semen retention improve mood and athletic performance? (23:22) Can semen retention improve your sperm quality? This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Michelle Dang, Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler, and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wylie, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Wendy Zukerman?

  Hi, I'm Wendy Zukerman, you're listening to Science Versus. Today on the show, we're pitting facts against fapping.

• 0:08Wendy Zukerman?

  That's right, with No Nut November just around the corner, we thought it was a great time to ask, what are the benefits of saving your seed and not ejaculating?

• 0:23Wendy Zukerman?

  And this is something that former tax accountant and current comedian, and also my friend, Suren Jaimana, has been curious about for a little while now. Hi, Suren.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:36Wendy Zukerman?

  How do you feel about being introduced as a sort of semen retention curious?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say as a former tax accountant. Um, yeah, that's correct.

• 0:46Wendy Zukerman?

  Now, for those who are uninitiated, semen retention, I've now become very familiar with this term, but it basically means you retain your semen, you keep it in, you don't release it.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:59Wendy Zukerman?

  When did you start getting curious about semen retention?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Well, yes, I guess more recently, as I've sort of delved into like meditation and more kind of yoga, or I would say Tantra type stuff, which is like Hindu kind of, I guess, philosophy.

• 1:18Wendy Zukerman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  And Tantra in the West, we think of it as very sex oriented, but it's actually just kind of like ritualistic ways to build meditation and practise that kind of stuff. A lot of those eastern philosophies are based on energy and like, is there, are you leaking energy?

• 1:34Wendy Zukerman?

  Uh huh, is ejaculating leaking energy?

• 1:36Speaker 01

  And I guess that at a very high level, this is the stuff that you make people with. So it's like the creative force of life.

• 1:43Wendy Zukerman?

  Yes.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  And then if you're just kind of wasting it.

• 1:46Wendy Zukerman?

  Giving it to a sock.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, giving it to a sock.

• 1:49Wendy Zukerman?

  It's funny because it is true that for... Thousands of years, men in particular have been conflicted over whether to fap or not to fap.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 1:58Wendy Zukerman?

  And for some in the ancient world, semen was seen as this powerful thing. Sometimes this great powerful thing that could do super impressive stuff. Like apparently the Sumerian god Enki came and that's how we got the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 2:13Wendy Zukerman?

  And because, but then on the other hand, it's like this conflict that we've had for so long. Cause then you've got Hippocrates and Daoist mystical practitioners. And then the 18th century, we've got philosophers and the 19th century, we've got American doctors. All on team cock block, saying that things like masturbation and losing your semen weaken a man's body and brain.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  It's, it is quite funny actually throughout history, how much it's like all these big thinkers. And this is, it's occupying a lot of space.

• 2:43Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, and a lot of these ideas are still out there.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47Wendy Zukerman?

  When you go online and it was very interesting, there, there are just loads of guys out there.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Loads is probably the wrong word. You don't want, you're telling.

• 2:55Wendy Zukerman?

  Or is it the right, the right word? Who are kind of talking about their journeys into this world and how excited they are about being able to retain their semen and how you could come along on the journey too.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  How to start semen retention, all right guys? Bruh, these are the results of one month of semen retention.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  We're gonna make it until the end of this year, no sex, no porn, no masturbation, none of that. I ended up relapsing on day 96, but I'm 14 days clean.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  So guys, I just reached one year of semen retention. Yes, I didn't bust a single nut in over one year.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  The theme that's emerging there is it sound, they're almost sound, it's like, it's like Alcoholics Anonymous. Or it's like wankers anonymous, isn't it?

• 3:40Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's been 16 days since my last fap.

• 3:43Wendy Zukerman?

  And you can, you can watch video after video of folks who are really struggling, but wanna keep this going.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  And I ain't gonna even lie, bro. I was so distraught. I was just moving around, like I was just so frustrated and I'm like, man, I just wanna. I just wanna jack my dick off right now, man. I just, but I, I know the perks that come with semen retention.

• 4:01Wendy Zukerman?

  Because the perks that come with not coming are apparently amazing. I mean, you hear people's guys saying that mentally you just feel like you're better.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, great.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Bro, I became a beast. Feel more confidence, I feel more energy, I feel more magnetic. Bro, your energy gonna be insane. And you could do a hundred pushups in a workout, do whatever the fuck you want with so much energy. And you're not gonna have any anxiety or stress.

• 4:30Wendy Zukerman?

  And it's not just your mind, but all through your body, people say they are feeling these benefits.

• 4:36Speaker 05

  Higher testosterone, better libido, better erection. Your skin glows, your voice gets deep.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  That's pretty good.

• 4:45Wendy Zukerman?

  Right, on top of all of this, some say that when you do eventually decide to jerk off, the sperm coming out of you is gonna be like out of control, best quality sperm.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Really?

• 4:58Wendy Zukerman?

  You've ever produced.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  See, that was something that I would think would be the opposite.

• 5:02Wendy Zukerman?

  And there's actually, I was sort of surprised, but do I wanna call it groundbreaking science on this? I think I do.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 5:09Wendy Zukerman?

  I think I do. On the flip side, there are other people who are then saying it's actually risky to not ejaculate.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:18Wendy Zukerman?

  Um, so one headline screamed, doctor issues warning against men taking part in No Nut November. Another says, quote, shocking research shows what happens to your body if you stop masturbating forever.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, yeah, forever.

• 5:35Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  That is.

• 5:36Wendy Zukerman?

  That's a lot.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  These people are counting up from zero.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  They're not counting back from infinity.

• 5:42Wendy Zukerman?

  So that's the account in you.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:44Wendy Zukerman?

  Right. So today on the show, we are gonna find out, one, if you stop ejaculating for a period of time, does it bump up your testosterone, improving your mind and body, making you feel like a beast? You were very excited about that idea.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like that idea, yeah.

• 5:59Wendy Zukerman?

  Two, will it boost the quality of your sperm? And three, are there any risks to holding it in?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:07Wendy Zukerman?

  And I do want to say that some folks who practise semen retention do it to break what they call an addiction to porn or sex. And we're not going to get into that too deeply into this episode because we've got enough to cover.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  We've got enough to cover, great.

• 6:21Wendy Zukerman?

  So when it comes to semen retention, there's a lot of folks saying,

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Bro, I became obese.

• 6:27Wendy Zukerman?

  But then, there's science.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 6:32Wendy Zukerman?

  All right. You're not coming up after the break. Do you know when I wrote that?

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Oh, that one was written.

• 6:40Wendy Zukerman?

  That one was written. And I didn't realise how awkward, I like, I almost wasn't going to say it. And then I was like, say it.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  I wish he didn't look me in the eyes, to be honest, but.

• 6:57Wendy Zukerman?

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• 7:35Speaker 06

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• 8:09Wendy Zukerman?

  Welcome back. Today on the show, should you try to not come for maybe a month? Give No Nut November a go. I'm here with comedian and semen retention curious.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, let's say that. Yeah.

• 8:22Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah. Siran Jaimana.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Also, No Nut November, I'm like, cause as an anaphylactic, I thought that was something completely different.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  I thought that was a different thing altogether.

• 8:34Wendy Zukerman?

  You've never heard of No Nut November?

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, but I thought it was like, let's raise awareness about allergies, guys.

• 8:42Wendy Zukerman?

  I just thought everyone knew No Nut November, where you don't ejaculate for November.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:47Wendy Zukerman?

  That's the idea.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 8:49Wendy Zukerman?

  Should you do it?

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Yep, I get it.

• 8:50Wendy Zukerman?

  My first question was a fairly naive one. I asked it to Justin Dubin, a urologist and andrologist at Memorial Healthcare System in Florida. What's the faf in no faf?

• 9:02Speaker 07

  See, you gotta be deep in the internet for some of this stuff. Fortunately, I have had the time.

• 9:09Wendy Zukerman?

  Bring me in. Put me in, coach.

• 9:12Speaker 07

  Faf is this idea of masturbation, or faf is like the noise that you make when you masturbate or have sex, right?

• 9:18Wendy Zukerman?

  Got it.

• 9:20Wendy Zukerman?

  Did you, I mean, I knew faf meant masturbation, but I didn't know it was the noise.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, neither did I.

• 9:26Wendy Zukerman?

  Justin, our urologist, being deep in the internet several years ago, he started noticing a lot of stuff in, on social media about the benefits of not ejaculating. And so he asked his mentors.

• 9:37Speaker 07

  Hey, did you ever hear of this thing called semen retention? It's all over the internet. They're like, no. And these are guys who have been in the game for 30 years, right? No one knew what the hell that was. And I was like, we gotta look into it.

• 9:50Wendy Zukerman?

  So he does, Justin starts this study where he and his colleague basically scroll TikTok and Instagram, looking at how many people are talking about this and exactly what are they saying? And there was just so much stuff out there that Justin said he was actually quite overwhelmed.

• 10:06Speaker 07

  Oh, I was going crazy. I was watching hours and hours and hours of these videos. I was, I was texting my friends and my colleagues at the time. I was like, man, I think I gotta go see a therapist.

• 10:19Wendy Zukerman?

  And by the way, they weren't just looking at semen retention. They were also looking at other men's health topics like male infertility and erectile dysfunction.

• 10:26Speaker 07

  All of us were surprised to see that by far semen retention was the most popular topic being talked about with over 1 billion with a B views.

• 10:39Wendy Zukerman?

  Wow.

• 10:41Speaker 07

  Really, really insanely popular. And by far, the data which was semen retention was the least accurate.

• 10:51Wendy Zukerman?

  Really saying something, right?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I guess that makes sense because if these doctors in that field haven't heard of it, who's been doing the science?

• 11:01Wendy Zukerman?

  Who's talking about it? Yeah, Justin said it was a lot of young, young guys.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:06Wendy Zukerman?

  So, all right, so we're going to give some accurate information about semen retention.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Great.

• 11:10Wendy Zukerman?

  Starting with, can it bump up your testosterone and make you feel amazing? And so over and over again, online, you see people quoting this one study to supposedly prove this point, that if you hold on to your semen, you don't ejaculate, it'll bump up testosterone. And here's what the study did. I love that researchers did this study. They got 10 men to have a wank.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 11:33Wendy Zukerman?

  To orgasm at precisely 4:30 PM on the first day of the experiment.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 11:38Wendy Zukerman?

  Then the men were told to abstain from any type of sexual activity for the next 20 days. How do you think you'd go, 20 days?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, fine, probably.

• 11:49Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  I feel like it would probably be out of my hands a little bit.

• 11:52Wendy Zukerman?

  Right. Oh, it's very much in your head.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, true. I could, I mean, 20 days without masturbating, I think I could do.

• 11:59Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so on day 21, they come into the lab. Oh, literally, they go, they go to masturbate. And throughout this experiment, like on day, on day one, day 21, before and after the wanks, researchers are measuring their testosterone levels. They also asked the men about their levels of sexual arousal.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 12:21Wendy Zukerman?

  And so what did they find? After no fapping for 20 days, the men were more aroused. They also said that once they had an orgasm in the lab. It felt more intense and it was longer.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:34Wendy Zukerman?

  It was sort of like a better orgasm.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:36Wendy Zukerman?

  Which Justin says checks out.

• 12:39Speaker 07

  I think it makes sense. I think if you are, you know, it's the anticipation build up. You know, delaying pleasure can be pleasurable.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it makes sense. It's sort of like if you eat Thai food every day of the week.

• 12:53Wendy Zukerman?

  Yes.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  But if you, if you go 20 days without eating Thai food, you'll fucking love. Can I, sorry, can I swear?

• 13:00Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  You will love that.

• 13:01Wendy Zukerman?

  On our semen retention episode?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:04Wendy Zukerman?

  I love to mark this explicit.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Like the pad Thai will be, I feel, I feel a bit sad that I've just compared Thai food to having a jizz.

• 13:12Wendy Zukerman?

  No, but absolutely, absolutely. You have that Thai food every day. Yeah, you're not gonna enjoy it.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:17Wendy Zukerman?

  Exactly. So then the question is, of course, what was happening to the testosterone?

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:21Wendy Zukerman?

  So generally speaking, the testosterone levels didn't change throughout the entire experiment. The researchers wrote baseline testosterones were, quote, "similar before and after abstinence." And in fact, the only time they saw a little bit of a bump in testosterone levels was after the fellas had their big wank on day 21.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 13:43Wendy Zukerman?

  Right. Which is odd because this is somehow being used as evidence that not fapping bumps up testosterone levels. But to get the little boost of testosterone, you ultimately needed to wank.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 13:59Wendy Zukerman?

  And so what is interesting is that other studies have shown this kind of thing too, that after you orgasm, and this is for both men and women, you do get a little bump of testosterone.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:09Wendy Zukerman?

  It doesn't last very long. It's just a little bump.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:12Wendy Zukerman?

  But it's something that we've seen in experiment after experiment.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 14:16Wendy Zukerman?

  Um, and in fact, the only study that I could find that suggested something a little bit fabulous, if you're not into fapping, is this small study from China that reported that after men didn't ejaculate for a week, testosterone levels went up and then went down on day eight.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 14:35Wendy Zukerman?

  But the thing is that paper's been retracted.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 14:38Wendy Zukerman?

  So it's interesting, this idea persists. And I think one thing that really annoyed Justin while he was doing that sort of doom scrolling. On this topic is that some of the benefits that people said flowed from this apparent bump in testosterone didn't make any sense to him. So for example, people said that their skin looked better and their hair was thicker.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Also, it seems kind of selfish, like you're not fapping, so your skin's glowing and your hair's thicker. So you're just walking around feeling better because you're not fapping, but you're making everyone else horny now. That seems unfair.

• 15:16Wendy Zukerman?

  And from other research, we know that when you get a boost in testosterone, say you've just gone through male puberty.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:26Wendy Zukerman?

  That's associated with acne. And when there's some research to suggest that when men go on testosterone replacement therapy, for some folks, they actually start losing their hair.

• 15:38Speaker 07

  Total opposites. If you have semen retention and it truly increases your testosterone to high levels, your skin's not going to get better. You might have thinning of your hair. Physiologically, it just doesn't make sense.

• 15:52Wendy Zukerman?

  And so bottom line, when he looks at the research that we have on testosterone and even tries to think of a mechanism, that's the other thing of like, how would not ejaculating boost testosterone levels? Like what could possibly be happening in the body?

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 16:07Wendy Zukerman?

  To bump that up? He just, he starts shooting blanks.

• 16:11Speaker 07

  When I look at the research, I think it is pretty clear that holding your semen does not increase your testosterone levels. So, you know, there's really no good data to suggest that there's any testosterone boosting benefit to semen retention.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  So what you're saying is so far, Justin's conclusion is like that he can't find any physiological basis for this, essentially is what you're saying.

• 16:37Wendy Zukerman?

  So far, we've just looked at testosterone, but there's other things that could be going on during ejaculating that could explain some of the.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  The other stuff.

• 16:45Wendy Zukerman?

  The other stuff, the other exciting stuff that people are talking about.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Okay, great.

• 16:49Wendy Zukerman?

  That might actually help their case a little more.

• 16:54Wendy Zukerman?

  So the next thing I wanted to look at is whether not ejaculating could improve your mood and energy and maybe even boost your athletic performance.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 17:03Wendy Zukerman?

  Which is something that a lot of athletes think about.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:07Wendy Zukerman?

  Have you heard of this idea?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  It came up a bit during like the World Cup. There was like a coach who banned his players from having sex.

• 17:15Wendy Zukerman?

  That's right. I mean, in the 1998 World Cup.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:19Wendy Zukerman?

  The English coach forbade his players from having sex.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, which I think I was probably 12 at that time.

• 17:25Wendy Zukerman?

  That's so funny. You remember that, right?

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that idea has lodged in my head.

• 17:29Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, Muhammad Ali was also into it.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:32Wendy Zukerman?

  He built a whole farm.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Really?

• 17:34Wendy Zukerman?

  So that he could be away from his wife before a fight. So could it be true? And the thing is, when you orgasm, it can lead to a rush of hormones like oxytocin and prolactin, which can make us feel relaxed and lower our energy.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Yes, okay.

• 17:51Wendy Zukerman?

  And so I asked Justin, so if you don't ejaculate, you don't get that sense of relaxation, which some may interpret as tiredness, you would therefore feel more energy potentially.

• 18:07Speaker 07

  Potentially, but here's the weird thing, right? Like, it's only in the moment. It's not like it's lasting for hours or anything. You're, you know, a lot of your listeners, some, I mean, have ejaculated.

• 18:18Wendy Zukerman?

  I think so.

• 18:19Speaker 07

  It's not like, yeah, it's not like, you're like, oh, God, I have no energy for the rest of the day.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 18:28Wendy Zukerman?

  Right.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  I guess, but you do sometimes feel like.

• 18:31Wendy Zukerman?

  Ready for a nap.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:33Wendy Zukerman?

  I feel like.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:34Wendy Zukerman?

  And so there have been studies that have actually looked at this in terms of sports performance.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 18:39Wendy Zukerman?

  So for example, there's this research that basically gets guys, it's all, I think it's all men in these studies, that tells them like not to have sex the night before. And then they'll test whether they can lift more weights or cycle faster.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:55Wendy Zukerman?

  Or my favorite, test their grip strength.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. Yep.

• 18:58Wendy Zukerman?

  And so I asked Justin, what have these studies found?

• 19:01Speaker 07

  You know, most studies do show that there is no impact of sexual activity on athlete performance.

• 19:10Wendy Zukerman?

  It doesn't, it doesn't affect it.

• 19:11Speaker 07

  Does not impact athletic, athlete performance.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I'm surprised, but my, maybe just because of 1998 World Cup that's like lodged in my brain. But it, it does, and maybe, I mean, it's like, I've just been making excuses, but sometimes I'll have a big gig and I, I've created this narrative in my head that I shouldn't have an ejaculation before a big gig.

• 19:33Wendy Zukerman?

  So, oh yeah, right, right, right.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  I would have once had an ejaculation and then gone to a gig and then it didn't go well.

• 19:41Wendy Zukerman?

  Yes.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  And in my head, I've just created a narrative now that like, the people, I wasn't glowing enough on stage.

• 19:47Wendy Zukerman?

  Ah.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  My hair looked too frail.

• 19:49Wendy Zukerman?

  Your energy, you'd wasted your seed.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:52Wendy Zukerman?

  You wasted your energy.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:54Wendy Zukerman?

  There is one sort of exception to this idea that perhaps it doesn't matter, that maybe might make you feel better about your thinking around gigs.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:04Speaker 07

  Except if you're having sexual activity within two hours of the event, which makes sense, right? That kind of makes sense, how you're tired, a little bit lower energy, and also you're straining yourself, you're exhausting your muscles, you're exerting yourself. So people could actually be just tired from the exertion of having sex when you're trying to perform.

• 20:29Wendy Zukerman?

  And so the study, Justin's actually referring to one particular study. It was a study of 15 male athletes randomly assigned to have sex and ejaculate or not have sex. And then two hours later, they basically had to go on this like fancy exercise bike.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:46Wendy Zukerman?

  And, and ride as, as hard as they could go, um, while their heart rate was being measured. Now, interestingly, when, when they, whether they had sex or not, it didn't affect how hard they could go on the bike, but after, in the recovery phase, their heart rate was a little bit higher.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:06Wendy Zukerman?

  And some of them said the exercise bike, even though they could do it, it was a, it was a bit tougher.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow.

• 21:13Wendy Zukerman?

  On the sex days.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:15Wendy Zukerman?

  So.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  So two hours is the window.

• 21:17Wendy Zukerman?

  Two hours, sure.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  That maybe it's relevant.

• 21:19Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, maybe it's relevant. 10 hours, night before, you're absolutely fine.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Is there a difference between an ejaculation solo versus with a partner?

• 21:30Wendy Zukerman?

  Great question. So hormonally, not really. So both when studies look at whether your prolactin, oxytocin, testosterone levels rise after sex versus after masturbating, they all see the same pattern.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, okay.

• 21:49Wendy Zukerman?

  That like oxytocin goes up, prolactin goes up, testosterone goes up.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:53Wendy Zukerman?

  So that was the closest I could find. Probably on a psychological level, it does make a difference.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:00Wendy Zukerman?

  I would imagine that you people feel differently after, just after sex with someone else.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:09Wendy Zukerman?

  And just quickly, I also looked at whether abstinence can boost your mood. People talk about how it can help with depression, anxiety. And studies have looked into this. So one study compared 44 men who didn't masturbate for three weeks with guys that did. No difference in mood. But the no fappers did feel more self-control on average.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:29Wendy Zukerman?

  There is this other study that looked at guys who were on a forum for trying to break pornography addiction. And in doing this, a bunch of them also tried to stop masturbating or orgasming at all. And they wrote these abstinence diaries that researchers then analyzed. And some men, they did really value this activity. So one 21 year old said he did feel more happiness. And another wrote, I just feel on a deeper level with work, friends, pastimes. There have been waves of emotion, good and bad, but it's a great thing.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, which could be from just discipline in general. Like if you, yeah, if you restrain yourself or restrict yourself from certain activities that requires a level of discipline, I guess. It might not be the fapping itself, it's the.

• 23:16Wendy Zukerman?

  This is what I think, this is what I think. And speaking to Justin and other researchers, it definitely feels like it's more psychological.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 23:28Wendy Zukerman?

  That you didn't like how much you were masturbating or orgasming and now you've been able to.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:33Wendy Zukerman?

  Control yourself and that's why you feel better. But I do think in the, in these forums, yeah, what they're getting wrong is they're kind of blaming.

• 23:43Wendy Zukerman?

  What masturbating is doing in your body? Blaming the physiology of like, if you masturbate, it's sapping you from energy, hormones that you need, blah, blah, blah, when it's, I think it is really more of a mental thing.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  So there's no evidence for that?

• 23:56Wendy Zukerman?

  I think that's where we're at.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, great. Okay. I feel empowered and to return to my fat lifestyle.

• 24:05Wendy Zukerman?

  But after the break, can saving your seed boost the quality of your sperm?

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Oh, great question.

• 24:23Speaker 08

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• 27:27Wendy Zukerman?

  Welcome back. Today on the show, should you try to stop ejaculating for a month more? We've just learned it probably won't bump up your testosterone levels or give you more energy, but now we're finding out, can it boost your sperm quality? For this, we need Brent Hanson. He's a reproductive endocrinologist and fertility specialist at CCRM Fertility of Minneapolis. How many people's sperm have you looked at?

• 27:55Speaker 11

  Oh my gosh. Many thousands. I don't have an exact number for you, but we're, we're talking in the thousands.

• 28:02Wendy Zukerman?

  Wow, okay. Can you paint a picture of when you're looking at the sperm under the microscope? What's a sample that makes you really happy? That you're like, this is a great sample of swimmers?

• 28:13Speaker 11

  When I, you know, as I'm still focusing the microscope, if I'm just seeing like... I almost view it as fish, like you're thinking of like a pond with like fish in it. And you're like, there's nothing but fish here. It's full of fish. You can hardly see the water. If all I'm seeing is like a swarm, that makes me happy.

• 28:31Wendy Zukerman?

  So the question is, how do we make Brent happy?

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:34Wendy Zukerman?

  Right?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  We want a swarm.

• 28:35Wendy Zukerman?

  We want a swarm. How do we get the swarm?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  That's a great, I love your question, but I, my real question is, do, is it true that they have like a little face that looks like your face?

• 28:52Speaker 01

  I thought that's where you were gonna go, like, what do you wanna see? And I thought it was, if I see that the face matches the guy's face.

• 29:00Wendy Zukerman?

  I'll know, he didn't switch the sperm at the last moment.

• 29:06Wendy Zukerman?

  Now, this question of how we get a swarm of fish swimming in our gut. Um, it's important because a lot of folks are struggling with fertility issues right now. Sperm counts have been going down. So could saving your seed and not ejaculating be the answer here? And Brent did this big review paper looking at this. And a big reason he did it is because when patients would say, you know, we're struggling to have a baby, how long should I be waiting here before I come into my partner? He didn't have a great answer for them and he thought.

• 29:37Speaker 11

  Shouldn't we have a better understanding of this? Because it's so simple, you know? You should be able to look at six hours, 12 hours, 24 hours and three weeks and get a really good estimation of like, what is the optimal time? And it seemed kind of baffling to me that no one had really looked into that in quite some time.

• 29:54Wendy Zukerman?

  Right? It feels like, it doesn't feel like dark matter, you know? It feels like something we should get a handle on.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  It's famously white.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  But yeah, I know what you mean. Like this is an experiment that you would think would, yeah, no brainer.

• 30:08Wendy Zukerman?

  No brainer, right? So Brent and his team looked at more than two dozen studies on how abstaining from ejaculating could affect various things related to sperm. And so I actually didn't realize how many different things can affect the quality of your sperm. But I asked Brent to list them.

• 30:27Speaker 11

  There are a lot. So concentration is one, the number of sperm per milliliter, um, the volume.

• 30:32Wendy Zukerman?

  Semen volume, that's just how much gunk is coming out in total.

• 30:37Speaker 11

  The liquid volume, yep.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Can we not call it gunk?

• 30:41Wendy Zukerman?

  My editor said the same thing. You don't like gunk?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Gunk is very derogatory. It's, it sounds like it's waste.

• 30:49Wendy Zukerman?

  Oh, oh, what would, what do you think we should use instead? Semen?

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, to be, yeah.

• 30:56Wendy Zukerman?

  It's scientific. Yeah, anything else we could go for?

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Load.

• 30:59Wendy Zukerman?

  Jizz?

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Jizz. Gunk creates, it's like waste.

• 31:02Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Like gunk is, you get spray and wipe. But gunk, you know what I mean? Like you wanna be.

• 31:11Wendy Zukerman?

  But semen you might leave around for a little bit.

• 31:17Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, we don't wanna add to the guilt around this.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  No guilt.

• 31:19Wendy Zukerman?

  That's right, that's right. Okay. So looks at DNA of the sperm, pH of the sample, motility, how well the sperm are moving. Under the microscope, yeah, he can also look at the shape of the sperm.

• 31:33Speaker 11

  There are some that you just look at and it's like, yeah, double head, we're out, that's not normal. Double tail, same thing. It's like if there's two of anything, we're done. That's not a normal one.

• 31:43Wendy Zukerman?

  And all of these things can affect the chance that a sperm is gonna sneak its way

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:48Wendy Zukerman?

  into, you know, through the cervix and ultimately make a baby. And so if you avoid jerking off for a few days or even a few weeks, what happens to all these things?

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:59Wendy Zukerman?

  All right, let's start with sperm count and volume.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:03Wendy Zukerman?

  Studies over and over again have found that less fapping on average means more sperm when you do come.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:12Speaker 11

  Yeah, so the, the take homes, you know, from this were really that the longer you go without ejaculating, the larger that sample will be.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like if you, uh, if it, you know, when the train is delayed or cancelled, there's more people on the platform.

• 32:29Wendy Zukerman?

  And that, that's basically it. It's like the semen is collecting in there, pipes are fuller.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 32:33Wendy Zukerman?

  One small study calculated that for every day the men held on and didn't ejaculate, their sperm volume increased by around 12%.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, okay.

• 32:42Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, now that huge bump, it doesn't last forever. After four days of not fapping, the benefits get smaller and small.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:50Wendy Zukerman?

  But still, no fappers are absolutely on to something here. But when it comes to the egg and sperm race, quantity is not the only game in town.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Okay, nice.

• 33:00Wendy Zukerman?

  Quality too, right? What's the point in having a bunch of swimmers if they can't, you know,

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:04Wendy Zukerman?

  reach the target? And studies have found, including one that looked at sperm samples from more than 2,000 men, that if you are looking at swimming in particular, so motility, fapping is your friend. So people who got off more tended to pump out better swimmers.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Yes, okay, but the longer they've been waiting on the platform, the more frustrated they are when they, when they get on the phone.

• 33:28Wendy Zukerman?

  Yes, yes, okay, so to give you some more details about what frustration looks like

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:33Wendy Zukerman?

  to a sperm.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now we're talking gunk.

• 33:36Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  After four days, it's a bit gunkier.

• 33:39Wendy Zukerman?

  Right. After is, so one way we can look at this is through DNA damage.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:45Wendy Zukerman?

  And so when your sperm gets a little damaged, that can make it harder to, for that sperm to then go on to create a baby.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:53Wendy Zukerman?

  And so let's look at what Brent found. So what did you find in terms of does retaining your semen improve your sperm's DNA?

• 34:01Speaker 11

  Yeah, so, so what we found is that the longer the abstinence period, the more these kind of DNA, you know, errors, so to speak, accumulate.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 34:12Wendy Zukerman?

  Hmm, yeah, so the more time between busting a nut, on average, more DNA damage in the sperms. And this makes sense once you have a better idea of where sperm gets stored and made

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:26Wendy Zukerman?

  in the body. So basically sperm are made in the testicles and they're really happy there. The temperature's great, they got this blood testes barrier, so here's Justin again.

• 34:36Speaker 07

  Just like you've heard of the blood brain barrier, they have the testes blood barrier to protect the sperm, right?

• 34:44Wendy Zukerman?

  I didn't know about this barrier.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 34:46Wendy Zukerman?

  And so it protects the sperm from a whole bunch of things like inflammation.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 34:50Wendy Zukerman?

  So they love it in there, love it in the testicles, but eventually the body's like, you've got to move on. And the sperms get pushed along to this wiggly tightly coiled tube, which is called the epididymis.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:03Speaker 07

  When it goes through your epididymis, which is where it actually becomes mature, it, it is no longer in that barrier that protects it.

• 35:11Wendy Zukerman?

  It's like high school, like a little high school for sperm, it's a bit stressful.

• 35:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, exactly. It takes on some additional stress. And that good sperm can develop some dysfunctional DNA.

• 35:23Wendy Zukerman?

  And when they're in the epididymis, they can get exposed to things like oxidative stress, other things that can damage DNA.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 35:32Wendy Zukerman?

  But yeah, if you ejaculate more often, you're not hanging out in that place for longer. And then, so I guess my question was, what is the optimum time to wait then?

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, great.

• 35:44Wendy Zukerman?

  And if you're trying to make a baby the old fashioned way, like through sex, not rather than IVF, you need to balance quality and quantity.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 35:54Wendy Zukerman?

  So because if you, if you are jerking off too many times, the quantity will go down.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:00Wendy Zukerman?

  And you, you still need numbers. It's still a numbers game.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  It's a numbers game. Hey, I'm a former accountant. If anyone understands that, it's me.

• 36:09Wendy Zukerman?

  So Brent, um, the fertility specialist in Minneapolis, told me like basically as you're heading into that fertile window of your partner, they're about to ovulate.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:18Wendy Zukerman?

  Try not to have ejaculated for, he says, two to five days.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:23Wendy Zukerman?

  But for some folks, they have a lot of DNA damage in their sperm, which you can check by doing a test.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 36:30Wendy Zukerman?

  And for those people, he actually recommends just one day.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 36:34Wendy Zukerman?

  Because the DNA.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Keep clearing the pipe.

• 36:36Wendy Zukerman?

  Clearing the pipes faster. Um, but as for this idea that, you know, you want to be waiting weeks or months or, you know, doing no nut November, Brent's like.

• 36:46Speaker 11

  I think if you're going beyond five days, certainly beyond 10 days, you're not doing yourself any favors. You will just be increasing the number of probably non-viable, non-modal, abnormally shaped sperm with high rates of DNA fragmentation, because those will continue to accumulate and they don't get flushed.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  The question though, it would be like if you. You probably have to have a few shots on goal, potentially, to get pregnant.

• 37:10Wendy Zukerman?

  That's exactly right. And because your partner's fertile window is really only around five or six days long each month.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  So the first one, you might have that gap of two to five days.

• 37:20Wendy Zukerman?

  Yes.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  But then if you want to have another.

• 37:22Wendy Zukerman?

  Once you're in the window, he says, go for it. He says, if you've got the question of, once you're in the window, do I have sex or not? He's like, have sex.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:30Wendy Zukerman?

  But he also said that by the time people are seeing him in the clinic, it's so stressful. There's nothing fun about sex at that point.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:38Wendy Zukerman?

  And he saying to someone, just have sex, whatever, can also be very stressful.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 37:43Wendy Zukerman?

  So he wanted to give.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, alright.

• 37:45Wendy Zukerman?

  Time for that. Alright, our last question for the day, I asked Justin. So then, are there any risks to semen retention? I guess if you are not in the baby making world, is it bad if you feel good about not ejaculating?

• 38:04Speaker 07

  Listen, if you're enjoying yourself, you feel good, you don't have to ever ejaculate. I don't really think that's a problem. And you know, people don't ejaculate for a long time, right? You have people who are not sexually active, they're asexual, totally fine.

• 38:16Wendy Zukerman?

  Yes, because online you do see some quite hysterical headlines about the dangers of not ejaculating.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:25Wendy Zukerman?

  And the one thing that people do point to, there's sort of one bit of science evidence for this, is around prostate cancer.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:32Wendy Zukerman?

  Have you heard this?

• 38:34Speaker 01

  No, I haven't, no.

• 38:35Wendy Zukerman?

  There is some research suggesting that folks who ejaculate a lot have a lower risk of prostate cancer than those who ejaculate a little, but we're not really sure what's going on here.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:46Wendy Zukerman?

  Prostate's big job is to help make semen, and so possibly by clearing out the pipes, you are clearing out potentially harmful things that could build up in there. It's not a crazy idea, but both Brent and Justin aren't sure if the ejaculating is actually helping you to avoid prostate cancer, or perhaps if something else might be going on here.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 39:09Wendy Zukerman?

  And it highlights that there have been other studies that do not find this connection.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's not very conclusive, is what we're saying.

• 39:15Wendy Zukerman?

  Exactly, much like masturbation, it's a bit messy.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 39:22Wendy Zukerman?

  So Justin actually told me that, you know, his bigger concern for people when he's thinking about the risks is that if you are really into not fapping and you join this, these communities that then tell you jerking off is bad and terrible for you, that that is going to cause harm in itself.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Oh, right, right.

• 39:45Speaker 07

  Here's the thing, right? A lot of these groups, you have to understand, create guilt. You can have guilt about wanting to ejaculate. You can have stress around not ejaculating.

• 39:56Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, and if you buy into this stuff online, that it is so bad to ejaculate, you can start to feel crappy about yourself when you start to feel horny or when you relapse, even using sort of language like that. And in fact, as a study found, that people who hang out more on the no fap Reddit forums tend to feel more shame, more worthlessness, some even have suicidal thoughts after ejaculating.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Okay, wow.

• 40:26Wendy Zukerman?

  Which is different to, because there's a lot of support groups out there for if you have cancer or various diseases and studies tend to find the more time on these forums, the better people feel because they're sort of communing with each other, they're sharing how difficult it is. So it's quite telling that in this case, it's kind of going the opposite.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

• 40:50Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, Justin says that that totally makes sense.

• 40:52Speaker 07

  Of course. If someone's telling you online that you should not ejaculate because it's bad for you and you should, like, it's so funny because it's almost like in all these videos, it's like, your whole day is thinking about just not ejaculating, which is like, which I'd go crazy, I'd go crazy about.

• 41:11Wendy Zukerman?

  You know, at worst, I did not know this before. I thought no fapping was all about sex and, and fapping.

• 41:21Wendy Zukerman?

  But on those forums, they kind of have got a little crazy.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  They have, yeah.

• 41:26Wendy Zukerman?

  To say the least.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:27Wendy Zukerman?

  They are filled with misogyny, homophobia, antisemitism.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:32Wendy Zukerman?

  It gets real dark, real fast. But away from the culture of no fap. If you are interested in going for a month or maybe even more without ejaculating. Brent and Justin were very aligned on this.

• 41:45Speaker 07

  I think that the idea here is that you should not feel bad about doing things like ejaculating. If you don't want to ejaculate, don't ejaculate. It's okay to ejaculate a lot. It's okay to ejaculate a little. It's okay to not ejaculate at all. You're gonna be fine.

• 42:02Wendy Zukerman?

  Do you want me to keep saying ejaculate a couple more times?

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, what he's trying to say is, are you the master of your domain?

• 42:10Wendy Zukerman?

  That's right.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 42:15Wendy Zukerman?

  How do you feel about your relationship with fapping at this point?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like all of that, that they're, I like the idea that there's no guilt around it and that it can be healthy, but also everything in moderation.

• 42:29Wendy Zukerman?

  Do you think you're gonna try No Nut November after this? Is this a challenge that after hearing the science?

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Probably not.

• 42:34Wendy Zukerman?

  You want to rise to?

• 42:35Speaker 01

  I don't know. It doesn't feel like a challenge that is calling me. But also now I know that it's not detrimental to do it either way, really. To be honest, the opposite feels truer now. Where after this discussion, I feel like I should, the pipes thing. Pardon me, DNA damage sounds so serious.

• 42:55Wendy Zukerman?

  Extreme.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:56Wendy Zukerman?

  I mean, it's just.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  It only matters if you're gonna use them.

• 42:59Wendy Zukerman?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's fine to.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  The sock doesn't matter if it doesn't mind.

• 43:04Wendy Zukerman?

  The sock doesn't care.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  A sperm with two heads, the sock's fine with that. That's a novelty for the sock.

• 43:09Wendy Zukerman?

  That is exactly right.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:11Wendy Zukerman?

  Thank you so much.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  No, thank you. I've learnt a lot. I'm no longer curious.

• 43:15Wendy Zukerman?

  You're no longer curious? Oh, I'm sorry, though.

• 43:19Wendy Zukerman?

  That's science versus.

• 43:24Wendy Zukerman?

  This episode has 71 citations in it. So if you want to read more about anything that we talked about, you can just go to the show notes and click on our transcript, and it is fully cited. So go have fun. There's some fun papers to read. You can find Suren on Instagram at Suren, which is S U R E N comedy. We are on Instagram too, science underscore V S. I'm on TikTok at Wendy Zook. Come and say hello.

• 44:01Wendy Zukerman?

  This episode was produced by me, Wendy Zukerman, with help from Michelle Dang, Merrill Horn, Rose Rimla, and Aketi Foster-Kes. We're edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munga, So Wiley, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka, and Bobby Lord. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family. Science Versus is a Spotify Studios original. Listen to us for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We are everywhere. And if you like what we're doing, please tell your friends about us. Share the love for the show around. Give us a five star review. And if you are listening on Spotify, you can follow us and tap the bell icon so you get notifications when new episodes come out.

• 44:45Wendy Zukerman?

  I'm Wendy Zukerman, and I'll back you next time.

• 44:54Speaker 08

  Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terzepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and Effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it.

• 45:38Speaker 08

  Or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer. Or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 46:24Speaker 12

  Stonefire naan is made with real buttermilk and ghee. It's the perfect flatbread for any occasion.

• 46:30Speaker 13

  I put out Stonefire naan with dips at every dinner party.

• 46:33Speaker 12

  I make naan grilled cheese when my daughter has friends over.

• 46:36Speaker 14

  I use Stonefire naan to reward the humans who do my bidding. Right. It's perfect for camping trips. Dance for it, feeble mortal. Sorry, is he talking to me or? Dance. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

• 46:50Speaker 12

  From our tradition to yours. Stonefire.

• 46:53Speaker 14

  Together we naan.