Recall rodeo: A food safety update + Why cars are catching fire

Food recalls abounded this summer, but was it unusual? Plus, why some modern cars burst into flames, even when turned off.

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  Hey, it's Flora Lixman, and you're listening to Science Friday. It has felt like a food recall summer. Salmonella in eggs, jalapenos, granola, E. coli in blueberries, glass in popsicles, unidentified foreign material in white rice, uninspected beef, and who could forget about cyclospora, the parasite you'd probably never heard of until more than 18,000 people were sickened by it this summer. So is this an unusual year for food recalls? And have federal cuts to food safety agencies played a role? Is our food safer than it was 30 years ago or not?

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  Joining me now to unzip the produce bag and turn over every baby spinach leaf of this topic is Brian Ronholm, Director of Food Policy at Consumer Reports. He lives, breathes, and eats food safety. Hey, Brian, welcome to Science Friday.

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  Great to be with you, Flora.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Okay, so it feels like there have been more recalls than usual, but does the data actually support that?

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's exactly right, Flora. It definitely feels like it when you consider all of the recalls that you just outlined. But really, for food safety recalls and outbreaks, when you look at data over time, it tends to be fairly flat with little fluctuations. So certainly, we will see some bumps this year because of the amount of recalls. But typically, what happens is when you go through a series of high-profile recalls that involve named brands, it really makes folks acutely aware of recalls in general. And so just they'll look out for the next one and kind of draw this conclusion that

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  there must be a problem going on right now, when in fact, it's just consistent with what we experience over time.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  So the numbers aren't wildly different this year.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. And, you know, thinking back to 2024, that was another year where we saw some high-profile recalls, the Boar's Head deli meat recall, you may remember. And there were some onions with McDonald's hamburgers that were subject to recall. So, you know, that was a situation where there are some very high-profile, well-known names to consumers, and they happened pretty much back to back. And I think that gave the impression to folks that there was a bigger problem going on then. And a similar pattern is developing this year.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  What about the numbers of people getting sick? Is that any different this year?

• 2:52Speaker 02

  We'll definitely see an uptick on that when you consider the number of cyclospora cases. That's certainly an anomaly. It's rare that you'll see the number of illnesses reach kind of five digits. So that certainly will be reflected in this year's data.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  You know, as I was reading that intro, there were really, there have been a variety of problems. It's not just one thing. Is that typical?

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Surprisingly, it is typical when you look at the number of foods, the types of foods that get recalled every year. And a lot of times, it's for similar reasons, right? Foreign matter contamination. You have metal shards that accidentally end up in some products, in addition to kind of the bacteria pathogen recalls for E. coli and salmonella. But again, you know, once, once we're so focused on it, become so acutely aware, you think, oh, my goodness, there's a much bigger problem going on, when in fact, there's a lot of recalls that probably fall under the radar that people typically wouldn't be focused on.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Take me behind the scenes a little bit. I mean, I see these companies put out press releases that talk about these voluntary recalls. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, there's glass in your popsicles. I'm like, I'm not going to congratulate you for voluntarily recalling them. What, when you read that, sort of what is happening behind the scenes there?

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm always skeptical when I read a company press release as it relates to a recall, because there are several statements that certainly flies in the face of truthiness, if you will. One of them is the food safety is our top priority. That's always the first sentence of every company press release. And it's, it's so amusing to see that when they're announcing a recall. You know, another, another statement is out of an abundance of caution, we are instituting this recall voluntarily, as you noted. What, what doesn't get reported in that particular statement is that likely what's going on

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  behind the scenes is they're really fighting tooth and nail with regulators to either limit the scope of the overall recall or talk them out of it completely. And finally, it just, it takes a final push by the regulator to say, listen, you need to do this, or we're going to publicly shame you in some way. So I think consumers overall should be skeptical when they read these company press releases about food safety.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  I think they are. Okay, I mean, there's been a lot of conversation about the, about cuts to FDA and CDC. Is there a link to what we're seeing now and those policy decisions?

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely. And here's why. A lot of us in the consumer group community think of the food safety regulatory system as kind of a Jenga tower, right? All of the blocks represent a key piece of the oversight system that goes on. So surveillance, inspections, testing, investigations, research. And so when you go through a situation where there are significant cuts in resources and capacity, these blocks get gradually removed and makes the system more unstable than it once was. And I think we're seeing that play out this year, especially with the cyclospora situation,

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  because that was a pathogen where the CDC was forced to cut back on surveillance because of the budget cuts they went through.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Are there other examples of how cuts or changes to rules may have, you know, maybe affecting our, our food safety?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, certainly, when you look at the cuts that happened at the FDA over the past couple of years, with the number of inspectors, with the laboratory capacity, their ability to test, you, you look at how the traceability rule has been delayed for more than 15, 16 years now.

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  What's the traceability rule?

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  So there was a law passed in 2011, Food Safety Modernization Act. And within that law, there was a provision that required the industry to set up an adequate traceability system that would allow the industry to trace back a particular product down to its source in an efficient manner, therefore just limiting the impact of a recall, right? So if, if they're able to trace back a particular product down to the source, they're able to identify it quicker, identify source of an outbreak quicker and pull that product, and thus limiting the consumer exposure and lower the risk of additional illnesses. That was a key provision in the law, but under industry pressure, FDA has delayed

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  the implementation of that rule. And so now it's, it's not going to go into effect until July 2028. And that's 17 years after the original law was passed.

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  I mean, I was going to ask, you know, how are these problems caught? And then from your perspective, is that part of the system working well or not?

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  Part of it is. I mean, part of it is when you're, when you're able to identify a particular source of an outbreak, it is an example. However, there's a much bigger problem that exists with our food safety oversight in that it needs to be focused on prevention, like preventing illnesses before they become a problem. Sure, it's great if we can identify them and compel a particular recall, but it's much better to set up a regulatory system where you're preventing them in the first place before it becomes a bigger problem.

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  I mean, are there low-hanging fruit interventions that should be happening but aren't happening, in your opinion?

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  Certainly with the industry, the produce industry is particularly vexing in that there's a lot of distrust within that industry itself between buyers and growers. Think of all the retail stores that get impacted by a produce recall, right? They're forced to remove product or discount it heavily in order to, to move it. And so they're impacted by a recall like this. So they'll typically insist on strict standards from their suppliers to avoid that issue. And from the growers' perspective, they chafe at any type of approach that essentially, in their minds, it's, it's telling them what they're doing. And in their minds, they know what they're doing and are stubborn in trying to implement

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  any types of change.

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  What are the things that should change, do you think?

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Overall, in the industry, I mean, the cyclospora recall is a good example of the bigger picture that needs to change for food safety. So it's increasing funding for the CDC so that allows them to conduct proper surveillance of all of these pathogens. It's increasing funding for the FDA to ensure they have the inspections and can do foreign inspections as well. It also allows them to have, you know, the laboratory capacity to conduct these investigations and identify problems quicker. You know, it's, it's implementing the, the traceability system we talked about. It's all of these pieces that need to be put in place as part of the bigger picture

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  to improve our food safety system.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm hearing money. I'm hearing we need to spend more money.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, it's so frustrating, Flora. I mean, especially for a lot of these agencies, the FDA particularly, I mean, that's on the food side, you know, they're, they've been chronically underfunded for decades. And this is going way back across several administrations. So when you have an agency that's already chronically underfunded, and then you tack on significant staff and resource cuts, it really puts them further behind.

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  Brian, you've been covering this a long time. Do you think our food is safer than it was 30 years ago?

• 11:02Speaker 02

  That's a tough question, Flora. It's hard for me to think that it's safer when you see what's going on behind the scenes, the way the industry fights against any type of regulations and standards because their focus is on the economic impact to their company as opposed to trying to improve food safety. I would say that the overall food safety system is probably more unstable than it was 30 years ago. And it's for the reasons why we talked about, right? It's the agency being chronically underfunded over decades. It's, you know, the lack of inspectors, that, you know, the foreign inspection is a good

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  example where there's less than 1% of foreign products get inspected when they come through.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  So that's, that's been a number that's existed for quite a while. And so when you pile on the additional cuts, it makes it less likely that these products are getting inspected when they're at the border. And certainly, this recent situation with Cyclasplora highlights that.

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  Fascinating. Thank you, Brian.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Thanks a lot, Flora.

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  Brian Ronholm is the Director of Food Policy at Consumer Reports. After the break, another problem I don't really want to think about: cars spontaneously catching fire. Don't go away.

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  Up next, speaking of problems I wish we didn't have. This year already, more than a million and a half cars, including some Jeeps and Kias, have been recalled because of a risk of the car bursting into flames. Not while the car is on, not while you're driving it, while the car is sitting parked with the engine off. These have been called park-outside recalls, put forth by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. So why are cars spontaneously bursting into flames? Here to take us under the hood is Jason Torchinsky, car journalist, co-founder of the website Autopian, and general car freak. Does that seem fair?

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  That's very fair, I think, yes. Generous, even. Yes.

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  Okay, Jason, is it weird that cars are bursting into flames? To you?

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, no. I mean, there is, there is a weird aspect to it, but in my many years with cars, they always want to burst into flames, weirdly. It's kind of amazing they're not constantly in flames. And the truth is, cars, you know, like, they're better now in a lot of ways when it comes to catching on fire. And I'll, I'll explain what's changed, but I've had plenty of old cars. My daily driver cars are still old cars that use carbureators. Carbureators are these things that mix fuel and air, and as a byproduct, they also leak gas all the time as they get old. You know, I have had many cars where the carbureator is right above the very hot exhaust manifold, and it would just dump gas right on there, and you could see it smoking and almost catching on fire.

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  Generally, though, the way it used to be is this only happened when the car was running. The key difference now is it happens when the cars are off. And this is the key, because you think they're off. But the truth is, and the fundamental reason why this is happening, is that modern cars are never really off.

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  What do you mean?

• 14:55Speaker 03

  So...

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  It seems off.

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  Seems off? You turn off your car, gas or electric, it seems inert, and it's just sitting there. But then, think about this. Okay, so in an old car, when you turned it off, it was completely inert. If you wanted to turn it on, you had to go there with a physical key, shove it in a little hole, turn it. You had to do physical things to bring life into this machine. A modern car detects when you're nearby with its key, and it gets all ready, and it turns on its little lights. And it's also got all kinds of security systems, so it knows if anyone's messing with your door. Some cars even have camera systems that turn on. What this means is, when your car is off, it is still electrically on. The engine, even a gas car, may not be running, but there is plenty of current running through that car to run all of these convenience systems and security systems that we now take for granted.

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  And this is at the root of the issue.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Because you have hot wires that can overheat, and you also have gasoline in many cases.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  Exactly. And by hot, we mean electrically hot, meaning there's, there's electrons and current flowing through these wires. And anytime you have that, you have the possibility of a short, you have the possibility of a spark, and then there's proximity to, you know, fuel, there's proximity to other hot things, and this is how fires start. And if you look at some of the reasons for the fires, like the Hyundai Kia fires, I believe, they said those were caused by leaks of brake fluid from the ABS system onto some electronic components. And brake fluid is not normally conductive, but as it wears and gets water and, you know, metallic components in it, it becomes conductive. And also, modern cars have so much stuff crammed in tight, like, space is at a premium,

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  especially when you talk about hybrids, which have two entire kinds of drivetrains jammed into them. So there's, it's tiny spaces with lots of stuff in close proximity. It's all hot, there's always current. It's a wonder these things aren't blowing up everywhere.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, we've heard of EVs catching fire. Is that a different issue?

• 16:48Speaker 03

  It's a similar issue. I mean, the fundamental causes of why an EV catches fire, you know, it has to do also with something shorted out. Something is running a bunch of current and making heat that shouldn't be when it's off. The only problem is with EVs, when this happens, it can lead to what they call thermal runaway in modern batteries, and then you've got all kinds of problems, because those batteries store a lot of energy. And when this thermal runaway happens, it's the temperatures keep going up and up and up, and there's no way to stop it. And EV fires are extremely hard to put out. Like, you know, you put out a gas fire, you can pretty much just douse it in water or whatever, and it goes out. EV fires can reignite, that's why they're so scary.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  You know, I would take the key back if my car wasn't going to burn my house down, you know? Like, take me to that simpler time, Jason.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  I, that's why I drive old, old heaps. I drive, like, my daily driver is this old Citroen that makes 29 horsepower. It was nothing, and it's two cylinders, and it's all just flaps, and, and it's, couldn't be any more crude. And I love that. And I feel like there was a sweet spot, I kind of think, in the, in the 90s to the early 2000s, where we had solved a lot of basic problems, like fuel injection was very common. So that replaces carbureators, they're not leaky, they just inject fuel right in the cylinders, they start better than a carbureator did. And we had some electronics, but not too much. You still started with a physical key. And, you know, it was, it was kind of like the beginning of the modern era, but we hadn't started piling on all these features. And I feel like we've gotten out of control. We don't need all these stupid screens.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  Like, we're, we've lost the plot here a little bit. We just need to calm down.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Jason Torchinsky is the co-founder of the website Autopian. Thank you, Jason. It's always a pleasure.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Thanks for letting me rant.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  That's it for today's episode. If you feel like your brain has just caught fire with this new knowledge, why not leave us a review? Here's a recent one from HBE080712, who says, "Each Sci-Fry episode creates more fascination for me about the vastness of the scientific world. I find myself smiling, and I can't wait to share my new knowledge with others. I love my new regular dose of dopamine." Thanks, HBE. That is so nice to hear. We'll catch you next time. I'm Flora Lichtman.