You Can Whistle While You Work—But How Does A Whistle Work?

Whistling requires attention to your mouth, muscles, and breath. Here’s how it works, and how to get better at it.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  WNYC is supported by Bear. Science is about asking questions, testing, trying again. It's not easy, but it's relentless. It evolves, and that's why science delivers. Learn more at sciencedelivers.com.

• 0:14Ira Flatow?

  Science Friday is supported by MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software for technical computing and model-based design. MathWorks, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com.

• 0:30Flora Lichtman?

  Hey, I'm Flora Lichtman.

• 0:32Ira Flatow?

  And I'm Ira Flatow, and you're listening to Science Friday.

• 0:38Flora Lichtman?

  Today in the show, the science of whistling.

• 0:57Ira Flatow?

  No, this is not the Andy Griffith Show that you're listening to. For the rest of the hour, we're going to be talking about whistling. Anyone who's tried to learn how to make a powerful whistle knows it's not as easy as just putting your lips together and blowing. It's like an instrument. It takes practice. Flora, are you a good whistler?

• 1:17Flora Lichtman?

  I am not. No, I am not, but I do love that Kill Bill song.

• 1:21Ira Flatow?

  Okay, let me introduce my guests, who are going to talk us through the science of a good whistle. Wanda Civic, whose stage name is MCP, currently training for the Masters of Musical Whistling. Who knew? There was one. She's based here in our New York studios. Welcome to Science Friday.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:41Ira Flatow?

  You're welcome. Dr. Aaron Johnson, a speech-language pathologist and co-director of NYU Langone's Voice Center in New York. New York, welcome to Science Friday. Great to be here. Nice to have you both. Wanda, you're a professional whistler? How do you get into a job like that?

• 1:59Speaker 03

  Well, getting into any kind of music job, you've just got to show up and make some noise, and if they ask you to come back and they give you some money for it, you're a pro.

• 2:09Ira Flatow?

  Do you have to choose an audition whistle?

• 2:11Speaker 03

  I mean, it depends on the gig. Personally, I started whistling around the city through jazz. You know, you can take a solo on any instrument, and I just started doing it on the whistle. And I've never respected what a saxophone player had to say about me until he said he liked my horn playing.

• 2:26Ira Flatow?

  And you're training for what, Masters of Musical Whistling?

• 2:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's actually two global competitions. One of them is in Tokyo, but this next one, Masters of Musical Whistling, will take place in Hollywood in October. And there's four divisions, if you can believe that. Four different ways to compete.

• 2:43Ira Flatow?

  Can't let you sit there without giving us a little taste of your whistling.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Oh, I would love to.

• 2:47Ira Flatow?

  Go, give us a little.

• 2:48Speaker 03

  Um, how about?

• 2:59Ira Flatow?

  Sweet Georgia Brown.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 3:01Ira Flatow?

  I'm a Globetrotters fan. I've heard that many, many times.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, the listeners at home can't see me spinning the basketball.

• 3:08Ira Flatow?

  Aaron, you're an expert when it comes to vocal performance. What's actually happening in the mouth when we whistle?

• 3:15Speaker 04

  That's right. So, Wanda is a singer, and there's a lot of similarities between how we shape our, what we call our vocal tract, which is essentially the space above our vocal folds in the back of the throat in our mouth. A lot of similarities between singing and whistling. So, in singing, the vocal folds is what create the sound, and that sound then bounces around in our vocal tract. And depending on the shape and size of our vocal tract, determined by our tongue and our lips and our jaw position, will have different resonances. And the same kind of thing happens when we whistle, except the sound source, instead of being at the back, the vocal folds, it's at the front, at the lips. So, that narrowing of the lips creates a stream of air, which makes turbulence.

• 3:58Speaker 04

  And then the resonance within the mouth is determined by, again, the shape and size of that vocal tract or the mouth.

• 4:06Ira Flatow?

  Now, there's the regular whistling, the kind that Wanda was doing. But when I was a kid, there were these kids who could put their fingers in their mouth and just go crazy, either at a ballgame or something. How different is the physics of that?

• 4:19Speaker 04

  Very similar. I mean, any sort of whistle, and there's lots of different mechanisms of whistling, but essentially, we need some sort of high-stream jet of air. And when you put your fingers in your mouth, you get a more rigid opening, and you can have a very high-velocity airstream, which is what then correlates with that louder, really piercing whistle.

• 4:40Flora Lichtman?

  I saw you shaking your head in disgust, it looked like.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  Oh, well, there's just so many ways to whistle. It's true. And to me, it's like all mystery meat, because you can't see it. I don't know how to teach it because I just always have been whistling. But I know I can whistle in, I can whistle out, maybe to reach different notes or to do different styles. So it's something I've been exploring through my musical career is the different ways to make sound that way.

• 5:07Ira Flatow?

  Can you teach people to whistle? I mean, or is it just a natural thing?

• 5:11Speaker 03

  I have not been able to learn when someone's tried to teach me another way, like with the fingers in the mouth, or I can do it with my hands, like the, you know, that kind, but I have to take all my rings off to get a tight seal. But I think it's really difficult in the same way that it can be difficult to teach voice, because everyone is built differently. The dimensions of everybody's mouths and throats are all different. Maybe the way that you, you know, your lifestyle, if you, you know, are not a water drinker, you know, that can affect your ability to whistle as well. So.

• 5:43Ira Flatow?

  Yeah, yeah. Did you find you could teach anybody?

• 5:45Speaker 04

  I haven't never tried, but I think it's like singing in that a lot of people just figure it out as they're growing up. And like many skills, if we haven't explored and played around when we're a kid and discovered how to do something, it's a lot harder to do when we're an adult.

• 5:59Ira Flatow?

  All right. Speaking of, let's, let's go to the phones. Let's go to Jay in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Jay.

• 6:06Speaker 05

  Hey, how's it going, Ira?

• 6:08Ira Flatow?

  Hi there. Go ahead.

• 6:10Speaker 05

  Hey, so, um, back when I was a little kid, um, my dad would go sit outside in his, like, various locations, light these little fires next to his, you know, those old, uh, plastic, very breakable, if you sit down too hard on them chairs. Um, and I would come outside, like after dinner, you know, sunset, want to come hang out with him. Um, he did see out there smoking his cigars. And we had our call and response whistle. I would go outside, you know, the front or back door and.

• 6:45Speaker 05

  And then I would get a response from him and I would, you know, figure out which side of the yard he was sitting at and go find him.

• 6:53Ira Flatow?

  Wow, that's interesting because I have noticed as you have that there's a certain emotion attached to different kinds of whistles, right?

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, my grandpa had a real loud one.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  Totally, yeah.

• 7:06Ira Flatow?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  My grandfather had a real loud one, he would shoot out at shows, you know, as his great applause, or my dad had, we also had a call and response if I got lost in the grocery store, you know, he'd go, and I'd go, and then we would find each other.

• 7:20Flora Lichtman?

  Did you use it?

• 7:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, still do.

• 7:22Flora Lichtman?

  You do?

• 7:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:24Ira Flatow?

  What about the wolf whistle, you know?

• 7:25Speaker 03

  Oh, like.

• 7:26Ira Flatow?

  Yeah.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Oh, well, you know, on a good day, I don't hear it, but I don't have that many good days.

• 7:34Ira Flatow?

  What do you mean, on a good day, you don't hear it?

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, you know, who wants to be heckled? But, you know, there's all kinds of, you know, you know, you could call a cab that way.

• 7:44Ira Flatow?

  Right, and people try to imitate birds.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 7:48Ira Flatow?

  Right?

• 7:49Speaker 03

  You have to do it ethically, though. I learned recently that you really have to be aware of how you're using bird whistles because they work and it can confuse the birds.

• 7:56Flora Lichtman?

  Really?

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, in the bird watching community, it's, you know.

• 8:00Flora Lichtman?

  Do you have like a trail of birds following you at all times?

• 8:02Speaker 03

  I will say I was practicing Sweet Georgia Brown for today and running through the botanical gardens and figured that by the end of my run, all the birds would be whistling like the Harlem Globetrotters.

• 8:14Flora Lichtman?

  Don't go away because when we come back, the whistles that rats make.

• 8:28Speaker 00

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• 11:15Flora Lichtman?

  We are talking about the art and science of whistling. Should we go to the phones? Let's go to Jamal in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi. Go for it.

• 11:25Speaker 07

  Yes, I have adult children now. They'd be embarrassed for this, but my son in particular, when he was a little boy, we'd be in the backyard and birds would be making their calls and I would imitate them and he thought it was the coolest thing and I'd go.

• 11:46Speaker 07

  And he thought it was just so cool, man.

• 11:49Ira Flatow?

  Wow. Wanda, you recognize that one?

• 11:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's something I've even observed in musical whistling, that ability to warble, like.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  And there's a term in brass playing or instrument playing called doodletonguing, I believe. And I think just using my brain, that you must be able to doodle tongue while you're whistling to make some of those warbly sounds. I have been exploring it, but I haven't been able, I'm not a master of that yet.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  I think a theme that's coming through is that there are a lot of different species that use the whistle to communicate. Humans, birds. In fact, in some of the work that I do, I study the ultrasonic vocalizations of rats, which are produced with a whistle.

• 12:32Ira Flatow?

  Let me back you up on that. Tell us about that.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  So rats communicate with each other using ultrasonic vocalizations well above our range of hearing. We can hear up to about 20 kilohertz and these vocalizations are 50 kilohertz, even up to 100 kilohertz, so way above what we can hear. And they use that to indicate interest in mating, rough and tumble play, mother pup location, and it's produced using a whistle within the larynx. So it's a little different mechanism though, the way humans produce either their vocalizations or whistles.

• 13:04Ira Flatow?

  We actually have a clip of that, so let's listen to that.

• 13:13Ira Flatow?

  Wow, that's in the range we can hear it.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  So, right. So that clip, we recorded with special equipment that's ultrasonic, and then for that clip, I slowed down the vocalizations so that they were within our range of hearing. So they're normally on the order of maybe 10 to 50 milliseconds. They go by very quickly and we can't hear them. So those were slowed down.

• 13:32Flora Lichtman?

  And why were you interested in this question?

• 13:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, so the primary thing that I research is the voice and how the voice changes as we get older, and particularly the muscles inside of the larynx. And so to study those in ways that we can't do in humans, I use this rat model. And we look at changes in the acoustic features of the vocalizations, and then we look at the changes in the muscle itself with aging, and also with vocal training. We actually trained the rats to increase how much they're vocalizing.

• 13:58Flora Lichtman?

  Really?

• 13:59Speaker 04

  We use that as a model of vocal exercise, so we know that as we get older, all of our muscles atrophy. And one thing we've seen in the limbs is that exercise can help keep us strong. And so our research is looking to see if we can do the same thing with the muscles of the voice.

• 14:13Ira Flatow?

  Hmm, fascinating. Let's go to the phones to Christopher. Hi, in North Carolina. Welcome to Science Friday.

• 14:19Speaker 08

  Well, hello.

• 14:20Ira Flatow?

  Hey there.

• 14:20Speaker 08

  Thanks for taking my call.

• 14:22Ira Flatow?

  You're welcome. Go ahead.

• 14:23Speaker 08

  I'm so glad to be with you. So I live in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I grew up a drive from here over in Greenville. And when I was growing up, and you know, you still let your kids run around the neighborhood all day until dark, we would listen for my dad's whistle across the neighborhood. And, you know, it wasn't, he would, wouldn't purse his lips, or he wouldn't stick his finger in his, in his mouth, he would lay his tongue down the floor of his mouth and kinda make it a little more rigid across the bottom lip, and then just pull his jaw back a little bit, and he had the most piercing whistle that would call us from two blocks away.

• 15:03Ira Flatow?

  You gotta see us here in the studio trying to do that.

• 15:06Flora Lichtman?

  Everyone's got their tongue gap out of their mouths.

• 15:09Speaker 08

  And, and I mean, I can sort of make the sound, but it was much louder, sort of, you know, just really piercing loud, and it was, it would call us home for dinner.

• 15:19Ira Flatow?

  Wow, it's a great story, thanks for sharing.

• 15:22Speaker 08

  And, you know, my, my dad just passed away a couple of months ago, so it was really nice to hear your program and just instantly remember that whistle.

• 15:29Ira Flatow?

  Well, condolences to you and your, your family, and thanks for sharing.

• 15:32Flora Lichtman?

  Wanda, is there a limit to what you can do with whistling?

• 15:36Speaker 03

  I have found that it's the closest I've ever gotten to be able, I, I play other instruments, and my whole life I've felt that I'm trying to keep up with my voice, because that's my primary instrument, I've done the most work on that, but the whistling is the closest I can get to my voice, so I, I can't think of anything I can't do, unless it's just too high or too low.

• 15:59Flora Lichtman?

  Well, there's like, there's, you know, the Beyonce song Love on Top, there's a bunch of key changes, is that like, outside of the realm of whistling?

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Um, no, actually, I was practicing that song for my Masters of Musical Whistling competition, because I thought it would be, I thought it would be a nice impressive, you know, I, I ended up finding a karaoke track for that song that was just a little bit, set a little bit lower, because where she hits all the way at the end, it's right at the top, my.

• 16:28Flora Lichtman?

  Can we hear a little bit of it?

• 16:30Ira Flatow?

  Yeah, you can't come here and tell us that.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Uh, let's see, um, baby it's you.

• 16:52Speaker 03

  You know, so on and so forth. She keeps going, but definitely any vocal things that I'm able to do, I'm able to replicate it with my whistle, which is something that's been so exciting for me as a performer who sometimes is doing like three, four, five, six hour shows. I can give myself a break by switching to the whistle. It's less fatiguing. I actually discovered my, or I think really beefed up my skills as a child because I've been singing my whole life. But before I really knew how to take care of my voice, I would lose it all the time by yelling or singing too hard. And when I lose my voice, I can still whistle. And when I lose my voice, I still have to learn my music.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  So I would whistle my music. I think it helped with my sight reading and everything. But I think that's how I was able to approach it like my voice because it just replaced it when I wasn't able to sing.

• 17:45Flora Lichtman?

  Erin, have you done voice work?

• 17:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, actually, my first career, I was a professional singer and teacher of singing in Chicago for about a decade. So I trained at Northwestern University. And actually, a classmate of mine, Jay Winston, was the 2023 Masters of Whistling champion as well. So I was familiar with the competition. Yeah, small vocal whistling world.

• 18:07Flora Lichtman?

  Do you want to sing love on top?

• 18:08Speaker 04

  Uh, no. I appreciate the offer. It's been about 20 years since I've, and I never really sang that genre.

• 18:15Flora Lichtman?

  How's your whistling?

• 18:17Speaker 04

  My whistling's okay. And I think it's probably because, you know, there's a lot of similarities, again, in the control that we have over our vocal tract in positioning the tongue and getting this kind of precise placement in order to produce resonance, which is what creates the frequency of the whistle.

• 18:33Ira Flatow?

  When you make a whistle out of a piece of wood? What do you have to do to make that into a whistle?

• 18:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, so in humans, we have the lips, which is where we have the constriction for that air jet. In something like a flute, or a recorder, or wood whistle, usually what the mechanism is, is an edge. So there's an opening that you blow the air across, and when that air stream hits that opposing edge, then it splits and oscillates, and that's what creates the frequency. So you need some sort of hole that has an opening that you're blowing across or blowing into, and then that's striking the other edge. You can think of sort of like a bottle of water or something that has an opening, and if you blow across the top, you know, you can get the tone. That's that, the space inside of the bottle resonating, and it's the sound source is that air blowing across and hitting the edge.

• 19:23Speaker 04

  And you know, you have to get the bottle just at the right angle, and the airflow focused in just the right way, at the right speed, in order to get that resonance to happen.

• 19:32Ira Flatow?

  Well, Wanda, is there some kind of whistle you can't do, that you want to learn?

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Like I said, those warblings are really crazy. It sounds, it's, it really sounds like you're playing an instrument when they're able to like flip the notes like that, like

• 19:50Speaker 03

  like I'm trying to use my tongue in there, it sounds kind of

• 19:53Ira Flatow?

  I'm hearing a lot of Disney. You know those birds in Disney?

• 19:59Ira Flatow?

  And Wanda's gonna play us out as we, as we had to think, we've run out of time, want to thank both of you for taking time to be with us. Wanda Civic, whose stage name is MCP, currently training for the Masters of Musical Whistling. She's based in New York. Dr. Aaron Johnson, a speech-language pathologist and co-director of NYU Langone's Voice Center in New York, New York. Thank you both.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 20:23Ira Flatow?

  It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for being with us today.

• 20:31Flora Lichtman?

  Thanks for listening. If you like the show, rate and review us wherever you listen, or just go straight to guerrilla marketing. Take a friend's phone and subscribe them to this podcast. I'm Flora Lichtman.

• 20:43Ira Flatow?

  And I'm Ira Flatow.

• 20:44Flora Lichtman?

  Thanks for listening.