Science Friday
Hosted by Flora Lichtman
The Department of the Interior seeks to remove the lesser prairie chicken’s endangered species designation. What would that mean?
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Hey, this is Flora Lichtman. You're listening to Science Friday. What a bird known for its flamboyant courtship rituals can tell us about the Trump administration's approach to environmental policy and protections for endangered species. We're talking about the saga of the lesser prairie chicken. This bird was granted endangered species status in 2023, and now the Department of Interior is moving to revoke those protections. Joining me now to discuss that story and other science stories from the week are Benji Jones, environmental correspondent at Fox, based in New York City, and Science Friday producer, Shoshana Buxbaum. Thanks for being here.
Hey, thanks for having me.
Thanks for having me and my inaugural guest on News Roundup.
Glad to have you both. Benji, so there's been drama around the lesser prairie chicken. Will you start by just introducing us to this bird?
Yes, this bird is a personal favorite of mine. It is not like your typical charismatic avian species like a bald eagle or a falcon. It is pretty bizarre looking.
I love it already.
So this bird is like the size of a football. The males start doing this funny dance where they inflate these yellow combs above their eyes. They erect these like tail feathers behind their heads, and they also inflate these red sacs on their neck, and then they just start stomping their feet. It is so cool to watch, and the sound is amazing, too. It's called booming, and I think the way I describe it is like yodeling, but like on fast forward.
Okay, it almost sounds like a bird blowing bubbles underwater.
Totally, totally.
Where do they live?
They live in the Southern Great Plains, so like northern Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, where you have a lot of like sage, where you have a lot of grassland habitat.
Okay, and so they were put on the endangered species list in 2023. They were granted that status. What is happening with them now?
God, yeah, so this bird has been like just in this game of political ping pong. It's been listed, delisted, listed, and now the Trump administration is moving to delisted again. So basically, there was a lawsuit filed by the state of Texas and also some industry groups in Texas, including the Permian Basin Petroleum Association and some livestock groups as well, to delist this bird, which is perceived by by many people in these industries as being an impediment to oil and gas development. And the Trump administration, as you're probably well aware, is the is this administration of drill, baby drill, is really prioritizing energy development over wildlife protections.
And this bird is seen as just a blockage to developing more oil and gas, even though oil and gas really only covers a small part of the bird's territory. And so these lawsuits to try to delist the birds have been going through the courts. And the administration basically just said, okay, we're going to give in and move to just vacate the protected status of this bird, which is a full 180 of what the Biden administration was doing. So basically, once Trump came into power, the Department of Interior, which oversees endangered species listing, basically said, okay, we don't agree with our own decision to list this bird as protected again.
I was under the impression that listing a species was a long, complicated process and required like public comment. Can the Department of Interior just say, oh, no, actually, we're going to take it off the list now?
That is like the single most important question, and I have not been able to get a super clear answer on that. There is some precedent of that happening in certain courts where you do see a full delisting, but typically you would expect the government to have to go through that same drawn out process. I mean, there were 30,000 public comments submitted for listing the species in 2023. And so what does it mean to just fully ignore all of that evidence, that whole process, and go through this delisting? I mean, certainly, it's going to be fought in lawsuits. There will be an appeal. So it's not like a guarantee that the Trump administration is going to get what it wants here.
Benji, you've also been reporting on renewable energy. President Trump has been, you know, very vocal about his opposition to win power. But I found your article really fascinating. I mean, your reporting suggests that wind isn't as partisan as it may seem.
Yeah, so I wanted to write about wind energy in my home state of Iowa, which is the number one state for wind energy just by the portion of the state's energy that comes from wind. It's about 60%. That's more than any other state in the country. And I mean, I was interested in this because, A, I've like seen so many turbines when I go home, but it's a big MAGA state. And as you said, like Trump, he's been bad mouthing wind for for over a decade. And more recently, he literally said like, quote, "We're not, we're not going to do the wind thing."
So what did you hear from the Iowans you talked to? Did they feel like there was a conflict here?
I talked to this farmer, for example, this guy named Dave Johnson, who has four windmills on his property. They earn him about $30,000 a year in addition to his livestock farm. He described this as like the 401k that he never had. So really, really benefiting from wind. And he's a Trump supporter. And when I asked him if there was a tension there, he kind of brushed it off and and mentioned that, look, like, I don't think we should believe what Trump is saying around wind energy. And Iowa is so dependent on wind energy, as are other red states like Texas and Oklahoma, that ultimately, when push comes to shove, we're not going to see a big impact on the wind energy from Trump's rhetoric in Iowa about this.
For for Iowans, it's about economic development.
Yeah, exactly. And like, it's the other, the other really interesting thing about the story about Iowa for me is like, it really shows that wind energy and and most renewable energy is just about economics. The reason we've seen such astronomical growth of these sectors of solar and wind is because they just make financial sense. I mean, most research, most recent data shows that wind is among the cheapest, if not the cheapest, new source of energy. And that is like, the message that really resonates, no matter where you are in whatever political district.
Okay, Shashana, let's turn to you. What science news caught your eye this week?
Okay, the FDA approved the first at-home cervical screening tool. So instead of going to the gynecologist for a pap smear, you can use this new at-home tool. So this new at-home version, there's no speculum requirement. It's just a long swab. And, and so it's from a company called Teal Health. And the research that was published along with the FDA approval shows that this home version is actually just as effective as an in-office test. And I want to clarify here that a traditional pap smear, they take some cells and then they look at them under a microscope and see if there's abnormalities. You can also have an HPV test done at the same time.
That's looking for specific strains that are indicative of have you being at risk of HPV. So this test is just that HPV test. Though doing an HPV test is shown to actually be slightly more effective than doing a traditional pap smear anyway.
Because there's such like a tight link between HPV and cervical.
Yes, that's right. And so it's specific high-risk strains of HPV. And most cases of cervical cancer are caused by HPV.
So it was, it was approved by the FDA. When might I be able to use it?
Yeah, so Teal Health, the company that makes the swab, said that it'll be available by prescription next month. First in California and then hopefully in other states as well. But it's actually not yet covered through health insurance. Though I do also want to note that like, while this kind of procedure, at-home procedure is being approved in the US, it's been widely available in other countries like Australia and Sweden.
Shashana, what else flew on your radar this week?
Okay, so this next story is very much in the Shashana wheelhouse. This story is about dinosaurs. I have to admit that my main interest in dinosaurs is along the lines of like, when did birds first evolve?
As a birder.
As a birder, like I'm a bird.
You only care about dinosaurs as a link to birds.
That is correct. And so this week, there was a big new fossil find from the Field Museum in Chicago. So this new fossil that they found is an archaeopteryx fossil. And these are dinosaurs that have feathers. And the cool thing about this new specimen, even though this is a really well studied type of dinosaur, this fossil is super well preserved. A lot of fossils are like really flattened. This one was preserved in three dimensions, which is like really rare for a fossil. But like the most exciting part, in my opinion, and also according to the researcher who was quoted in a bunch of articles,
is that the way that the wings were positioned, you can actually like see the full wingspan. And so you can kind of see the imprints of tissue and even feathers. And so scientists were able to detect for the first time a second layer of feathers. Okay, so I'm going to explain what that means. So imagine the long arm bone of a bird, right? And so what they found is that unlike other dinosaurs, where the feathers just go from the tip to sort of like mid arm, like imagine where like your elbow would be. On this fossil, the feathers actually go all the way to where the wing connects with the body.
And this is really significant because archaeologists thought that this type of dinosaur had the potential to fly. But the fact that there are the second layer of feathers is similar to what modern birds that are able to fly have. So this just points more evidence that actually this is the first dinosaur that was able to fly, which is pretty cool.
Do we know how well it could fly? Like, is it, you know, soaring or is it like a chicken, a giant chicken?
Yeah, so they actually call it a Jurassic chicken.
So it could fly, but not like super duper well.
Don't go away. More stories after the break, including unpepper. You'll find out what that means if you stay with us.
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Shashana, you have one more story for us, some food science?
Yes, yes. Okay, so this one is about hot peppers. What makes peppers spicy or not spicy? So the spiciness of chili peppers comes from compounds called capsaicinoids. And when they measure chili pepper, they use something called the Scoville scale. If you're like into super hot peppers, you're probably familiar with this. But it's an imperfect science because like the Scoville scale, basically they're ranking how much of those capsaicinoids are in there, like the things that make the peppers spicy. However, people will not necessarily rate peppers as being as spicy as the Scoville's
scale rating has. So like
Like there's something that's, that's despicing them.
Exactly. There's something that the level of spiciness in them isn't like a one to one of like how you perceive it. So the ones that like people ranked as less spicy despite having the same level of spiciness. They figured out that those pepper varieties had a bunch of these compounds called glucosides, which is just like a fancy name for molecules that contain glucose. So there's three molecules. It's basically a type of sugar. And so that's counteracting the spiciness of the pepper. So they basically discovered anti-spice.
It's the unpepper.
What? So can you like the unpepper and can you like package that up and make it into like a shaker, like sprinkle it on your food? Like I can go to every restaurant now?
That is ultimately like part of the goal, I think. Like that's a potential application. I mean, they just figured out these compounds and the researchers don't exactly know how they work, like how it interacts with the spiciness of the peppers. But yes, ideally, if you can isolate those compounds, you can shake it on food to make it less spicy and also like, you know, manipulate peppers to be more or less spicy in a more precise way.
I can't think of anything nerdier than going to a restaurant with your unpepper and being like, oh, I'll just take this down a notch.
Horrible. Horrible.
It's reducing food waste, okay? Like, we're saving the environment.
Okay, Benji, I know you reported on this, too. More exciting news for cicada stands, which I assume are all of us. Tell us about it.
The cicadas are back. In the next few weeks, we will start to see another major emergence of these cicadas that only come up every so often. These are cicadas, brood 14, that have been underground for 17 years and are about to emerge. They're going to be in Long Island, but they're also going to be in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia. So there's a large area over which these cicadas will be emerging, hopefully soon.
Here's the thing that I don't understand. They come out every 17 years. How do they know when to come out?
Okay, so Flor, I mean, these are insects of mystery, and that is a big mystery. One theory is that they can count the years based on the flow of sap in the tree roots that they're slurping up when they're resting in the soil. So the young cicadas are basically like attached to these roots underground before they emerge, and they're slurping up the silum fluid from the roots. Like, that's how they grow. And as the seasons go by, the flow of sap changes. And so scientists think they can actually like use that change in flow to count. And then they get the signal to emerge based on temperatures.
And the other funny thing is that some of them like don't know how to count properly and will emerge like four years early or four years later.
We all have friends like that. You know what I mean?
Completely, like the late sleepers, the annoying early morning people, or like the late bloomers, whatever. I'm a late bloomer. But, um.
I'm so pumped. Didn't see last year's brood. So, yeah, I mean, I might have to take the Long Island Railroad and see some cicadas.
You should do it. We should go together.
Yes. Field trip. Flor, are you in?
Just send me pictures.
Wow, wow, okay.
Okay, so Flora, I want to hear what story you've been obsessing about this week.
Well, I know we've been on the bird train this whole time, but there is just one more story that must be mentioned. Look, as we all can agree, flamingos are the most hardcore animal out there, and they are also often overlooked because they are pink. And that is not an assertion, that is a fact. But the flamingo flock is feasting this week because scientists report in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that they have finally cracked this longstanding mystery of flamingos, which is, how do they eat in that goofy way that they do? Can you guys picture what that looks like, like a flamingo eating?
They kind of like dip their head into the water, they're sort of upside down, and then they're just like kind of moving their mouth up and down, right?
Yes, exactly. They're upside down, and then their beak is like chomping like, you know, a wind-up set of teeth. And what the researchers figured out by filming them and by creating a, of course, a 3D-printed flamingo beak, is that this, of course, this action, this sort of upside-down action with the shape of their beak and the chomping, creates vortices under the water that kind of propels the brine shrimp or the algae or the seeds into their mouths.
What?
Like underwater, yeah, like a little tiny little underwater vortice. And not only that, but also they do this thing with their feet where they're like stomping in the water, and that also creates vortices that sort of just like propels water into their mouth. So anyway, I had to share this flamingo news. I love flamingos, and you must see the video. It's at sciencefriday.com/falmingo.
Yeah, I'm going to cosign on that video, especially the 3D-printed flamingo beak.
It's incredible.
The things researchers do.
Thank you. That's all I have to say to them. And thank you to you both for sharing these stories with us. Thanks, Flora.
Thanks for having me.
Benji Jones, environmental correspondent at Vox, based in New York City, and Sci-Fry producer Shoshana Buxbaum. On Monday, we are back with another episode of The Leap. This is a series I worked on with the Hypothesis Fund about scientists who are putting their reputations, their careers, and even their lives on the line for their work. And in the next episode, we are taking you to the top of an erupting volcano. That's on Monday's podcast.
And that is about all we have time for. Lots of folks helped make this show happen, including Sandy Roberts. Robin Casmer.
Charles Bergquist. George Harper.
I'm Flora Lichtman. Thanks for listening.
Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated