Forecasting Cuts Spark Worries About Hurricane Season | Soothing Babies With Music

Emergency response experts say that funding and staff cuts at the National Weather Service could mean less reliable weather forecast. And, babies like music, but they generally have preferences. A music therapist reveals the best kinds of music to soothe a baby.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Flora Lichtman?

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• 0:49Ira Flatow?

  This is Science Friday. I'm Ira Flatow.

• 0:52Flora Lichtman?

  And I'm Flora Lichtman. Today in the podcast, a music therapist reveals the best kinds of music to actually soothe the baby. But first, why cuts to NOAA have hurricane forecasters nervous?

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Some of the concern is the accuracy of the forecasts.

• 1:13Flora Lichtman?

  Hundreds of federal workers at NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, have been laid off or are in job limbo thanks to the Trump administration's cuts to government. But what will these cuts mean for hurricane forecasting in coastal states like Georgia, states that rely on data and resources from this agency to prepare and weather storms? Here to tell us more is Emily Jones, climate reporter for Grist and WABE in Atlanta, Georgia. Emily's based in Savannah. Emily, welcome to Science Friday.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:46Flora Lichtman?

  OK, let's take a step back. I mean, who prepares Georgia for a hurricane? Who's in charge of that?

• 1:52Speaker 02

  Well, it's, as you can imagine, a huge coordinated effort with, you know, all kinds of different agencies and groups and school districts and cities. But the sort of point people that bring all those groups together and coordinate that effort are emergency managers. So there's a state emergency management agency. Then there are local emergency management agencies dotted all over the state in different counties, you know, that really handle that effort at a local level. And so they're the ones that kind of bring together everything that needs to happen. If an evacuation needs to happen, they're the ones that are coordinating it. They communicate with the public information about how to prepare for any storm.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  And then when one is actually coming, you know, how to prepare for this storm, what you need to do, whether roads are closed, whether you need to boil your water. Comes down to and sort of filters through emergency management agencies.

• 2:52Flora Lichtman?

  Okay. And how do these emergency managers rely on NOAA during hurricane season?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  NOAA is the agency that puts out the forecasts and all of the information that's needed to tell people that information I was talking about, you know, how much rain they're going to get. Do they need to prepare for flooding? Do they need to prepare for winds? Does there need to be an evacuation? NOAA is the sort of parent agency of the National Weather Service stations that are all over the country, handling sort of little individual, regional chunks of the country for forecasting. And then NOAA is also the parent agency of the National Hurricane Center down in Miami, which puts out all of that incredibly detailed information that you see about the track of a storm and the size of a storm and where exactly it is at

• 3:38Speaker 02

  any given time. You know, once a storm reaches tropical depression status, the National Hurricane Center starts putting out these regular updates about where the storm is, where it's going, what they expect, what different places need to do to prepare. So that is really vital for emergency managers. And beyond just, you know, knowing what the forecast is going to be, emergency managers also... Also have relationships with those offices and the people in those offices so that they can prepare, so that they know who they need to call if they have a question, if they need more information about the forecast. And that's one of the things that's really starting to create concern right now with these cuts is it's not just about hurricane season that hasn't hit us yet.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Emergency managers like to maintain those relationships all the time so that they know who the person is at their National Weather Service station that they can call.

• 4:30Flora Lichtman?

  Right, they have them on speed dial.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. I spoke with Lynn Budd, who is the president of the National Emergency Management Association. And she explained, you know, the phrase she used that really struck me was, you know, you don't want to be exchanging business cards during the storm.

• 4:47Speaker 03

  We're planners. We like to plan. We like to know what's going to happen and how do we prepare for it?

• 4:53Flora Lichtman?

  That seems reasonable.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:56Flora Lichtman?

  Are they relying on other agencies for information as well?

• 4:59Speaker 02

  They are. And this is, this is something in reporting this story that, that really struck me because it was something that never occurred to me, even as someone who covers forecasting and climate and, and weather and hurricanes, is that a lot of the information that goes into NOAA and National Weather Service forecasting comes from other places or from, you know, technology that's managed by other agencies. So a lot of satellite imagery, for instance, of weather patterns and just sort of of the earth that, that goes into forecasting, you know, who manages satellites? Well, NASA, the Department of Defense, um, you know, there's information about flooding of, of different waterways that comes from flood gauges, which are managed by all kinds of different agencies.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  The US Army Corps of Engineers, the US Geological Survey, even the EPA, local, uh, state, state environmental protection agencies. I mean, all of these different groups manage flood gauges. There are weather gauges at airports, you know, when you get a, um, when you get a forecast, the temperature is often tells you that the temperature at the nearest airport. That's the FAA has weather stations at airports because they have to monitor weather for planes taking off. And so all All of those inputs go into National Weather Service and National Hurricane Center forecasting. So yes, they do rely on other agencies, which again, I didn't really realize the extent to which all of that is interconnected until another of my sources for this story,

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Chuck Watson, who studies disasters and disaster preparedness for an organization called ENKI Research, which is based in Savannah, Georgia, where I am. And he explained, you know, how interwoven all of this, this sort of whole system is.

• 6:42Speaker 04

  It's like a fabric or a carpet. You start picking at it like my cat does. You start pulling that thread out. Before long, you've got this big rip in the carpet and a big mess.

• 6:51Flora Lichtman?

  Amazing visual. Okay. So are the experts that you talk to, are they concerned about these cuts?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  They are. And again, is some of it, some of the concern is just, not just, I don't want to downplay it, but some of the concern is, is about the confusion that exists right now, that sort of limbo that you referred to, that, you know, as, as Lynn Budd said, emergency managers like to prepare and they don't feel like they can be prepared if they don't even know who the person to call is. The other thing that they're concerned about though, is the accuracy of the forecasts. Because so many of the decisions that go into hurricane preparedness have to do with the forecast of what the storm is going to do. Where is the storm going to be? And by extension, how far out are the, are the strong winds going to reach?

• 7:42Speaker 02

  And therefore, you know, what places have to worry about flooding? What places have to worry about trees falling down? And the biggest question with a hurricane, do you need to evacuate? And all of that, you know, relies on having accurate forecasts so that you can say with a reasonable degree of certainty, you know, that storm is going to stay far enough offshore, we're going to be okay, we don't need to evacuate. Or that storm is going to come close enough that this area is going to flood, it's not going to be safe, we need to get our people out. And if you're less certain about the forecast because you don't have as much data to put into the forecast, you know, there, there is some potential that you have to order

• 8:25Speaker 02

  an evacuation that maybe you wouldn't have needed a few years ago if you could have said with absolute certainty that the

• 8:31Flora Lichtman?

  Right.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  That the storm was going to stay away.

• 8:35Flora Lichtman?

  Did NOAA comment on this story?

• 8:37Speaker 02

  They did. I reached out to them, asking for a comment, as I'm sure lots and lots of reporters have done since these firings were announced. And they did send me a statement that they seemed to have at the ready, saying that they declined to discuss personnel matters, but that the agency is still providing timely information, research, and resources, pursuant to their public safety mission, was the phrasing that they used.

• 9:03Flora Lichtman?

  When does hurricane season start this year?

• 9:06Speaker 02

  So hurricane season officially starts on June 1st, although we do sometimes see tropical activity outside of hurricane season. Several times in the last few years, we've seen a tropical storm or a tropical depression actually spin up sooner than June 1st.

• 9:20Flora Lichtman?

  And are people already bracing for it? Is there any preparation that happens now?

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Yes. I mean, when you live in a place like coastal Georgia, or Florida, or the Gulf Coast, or the Carolinas, you are almost in a constant state of hurricane preparation. And yeah, there are tips that, again, those emergency management agencies send out headed into hurricane season, reminding people, make your plan, know what you're going to do if you need an evacuation, stock up on your supplies in case you run out of power. These are all things that pretty much all of us do every hurricane season. I think we probably, in my house, we probably have to restock some of our supplies because we went through them when we lost power during Hurricane Helene.

• 10:02Flora Lichtman?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm curious about that, how the public is feeling about this. Have you gotten any sense that the public is sort of conscious of these cuts and concerned? Is this adding a layer of stress for regular people?

• 10:16Speaker 02

  I am not sure that that is there yet, in kind of the general consciousness. I mean, when this story published, I did see several people on my social media feeds sharing it and saying, look, this is pointing to a serious concern. And the story mentioned a couple of really local waterways that people were like, hey, yes, we do need to know if those are going to flood. I think that general concern about this stuff, it tends to ramp up more as we get into hurricane season, June 1st, and then again, September, late August, September, October is really sort of the busiest part of hurricane season. And so I think we'll also see more concern accelerate then.

• 11:01Flora Lichtman?

  Emily, thank you so much for walking us through your reporting today. Appreciate it.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Of course. Thank you so much for having me.

• 11:08Flora Lichtman?

  Emily Jones, climate reporter for Grist and WABE in Atlanta, Georgia. Emily's based in Savannah.

• 11:17Ira Flatow?

  After the break, a music therapist tunes us in to the best ways to play music for your baby and how it can help their development.

• 11:25Speaker 05

  You need to look at signs from their body or how they're responding that they're actually, quote unquote, enjoying this music.

• 11:37Speaker 06

  Science Friday is supported by PBS, presenting Going Wild. If you love learning about the natural world and meeting the scientists who help us understand it, be sure to check out the new season of Going Wild with Dr. Ray Wynn Grant. It's the chart-topping and Webby Award-winning podcast from the folks at Nature on PBS, now with a video companion series. In this season of Going Wild, host acclaimed wildlife ecologist Dr. Ray Wynn Grant heads out into the field to explore the animals, people, and stories that make nature worth saving. Stops include a hibernating black bear den in Arkansas and an underwater shipwreck site off the Florida coast. If you're looking for a place to start, check out the season's debut episode, where Ray joins beloved biologist and influencer Jordan King in the Florida Everglades to learn about

• 12:22Speaker 06

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• 12:35Speaker 07

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• 12:48Ira Flatow?

  If you're a parent, you've probably heard that playing music is good for your baby's brain development. But I think that's where most people's knowledge about the subject, well, it sort of ends there. Well, queuing up a lullaby playlist get the job done. And how can you tell if it's all just too much for the baby? Here to help us is Sarah Nolan, a board-certified music therapist and neonatal intensive care unit music therapist at Children's Hospital, Los Angeles. Welcome to Science Friday.

• 13:21Speaker 05

  Hi, thanks for having me.

• 13:22Ira Flatow?

  Sarah, you published recommendations recently about the best ways to think about playing music for your baby. I do want to get to those, but let's first talk about why is music important to play for babies as they grow up? Is this sort of a medical tool?

• 13:39Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, you're right. I think that music is something that we have that's so accessible to everybody. And so it's obvious that we want to kind of share that with our children as they grow up, right? Um, I think the important part is that we think of the baby's development. And so in sharing that music with our babies, we're still thinking about the learning opportunities. We're still thinking about how can we share this music to them, but still use this as a way for them to learn something, to help them develop. So usually we'll, you know, give them things to touch, things to look at, and that's part of their brain development. And so really using the music is for us a way for them to learn.

• 14:17Ira Flatow?

  All right. So what common misconceptions do you see parents making when they play music for their babies? Is it how long they're playing it, when they're playing it? Tell us about that.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think what ends up happening sometimes is a parent might say, oh, my baby loves music. I play it for them all day, or he loves listening to the song over and over and over again. And I'll often remind them and tell them, well, the baby can't tell you verbally, right? So you need to look at signs from their body or how they're responding that they're actually quote unquote, enjoying this music. These are some signs that they're telling us that they're like it. And these are signs that they're telling us that they're actually becoming overstimulated. Um, the length of music can also be somewhat of a misconception because a lot of times we'll play a playlist and we kind of just leave it there. And then we, you know, we walk away and we say, oh, they've enjoyed it. But then how could we really tell if we're not watching them the entire time? And so

• 15:13Speaker 05

  that might actually not be the most beneficial for the baby.

• 15:16Ira Flatow?

  Is there a sweet spot? Is there an ideal length of time for them to listen? Because I know babies have a pretty short attention span, don't they?

• 15:25Speaker 05

  Yes, that's a huge important thing to remember is the attention span of babies. When a baby is listening to a song or music for about thirty to forty-five minutes, after that general period, they're no longer really paying attention to that music. And so it just really becomes noise. So at that point, we have to remember, is there still an opportunity for learning here? Is my baby still learning anything? Or is he just listening to the sound continuing in the background? That's really not doing anything for them anymore. And so the thirty to forty-five minute at a time is usually what's recommended. So those are things that we need to remember.

• 16:03Ira Flatow?

  Are there's actual signs you can see that that your baby makes to show that it's no longer interested?

• 16:08Speaker 05

  Totally, um, generally speaking, let's say if they're yawning excessively. Obviously yawning is a sign that maybe a baby is tired or sleepy. But if there's excessively yawning, but they can't fall asleep, it might be a sign that the stimulation from the music is actually keeping them awake as opposed to helping them fall asleep.

• 16:26Ira Flatow?

  Interesting. I I know you see babies all day in the hospital. Tell us what you've learned about the kinds of music that parents would find helpful to play and how the babies react to that.

• 16:38Speaker 05

  Right, so um, I specifically work in our N I C C U, which at Children's Hospital stands for the Neonate and Infant Critical Care Unit. So we see a lot of very, very sick babies that can range in age from a premature baby who's born way too early, all the way up to maybe a ten or eleven month old that just has a lot of medical issues. Now, we always want to ask parents, what are songs or types of music that you enjoy as a family? Because more often than not, this baby can hear, you know, what mom was listening to while she was pregnant with the baby. And we always want to bring a sense of familiarity to the space. And so if if a parent enjoys rock music, then we'll try our best to use rock music. The only thing that's going to change in in my work

• 17:24Speaker 05

  is how I deliver that music. So with babies, they prefer songs that are predictable. They prefer songs that are simple. And so I might have to simplify, let's say, a melody of a song. Or I change the way that I play it based off of what's appropriate for a baby. So I might not. Play in full volume. I might not play, you know, full chords. I might just kind of do a little bit of light plucking on the guitar. And so it's really more important to remember the specific elements of music that make it appropriate for a baby. So the simplicity, the volume, the predictability of the song.

• 18:00Ira Flatow?

  Do you have a favorite guitar melody you like to play for your kids?

• 18:04Speaker 05

  Well, my favorite specifically is I, I love You Are My Sunshine. It's also really easy for me to change the lyrics. So that's something that we do a lot with parents. Why don't we add your baby's name into the song? What are some things that you want to tell your baby? So the melody stays the same, but you know, it's more familiar and it's more personal to the parent. I, I'm here to empower parents that they can do some of these things at home, which is really kind of the whole point of this education that we're trying to do for them.

• 18:30Ira Flatow?

  Thank you, Sarah, for taking time and sharing what you do with us.

• 18:34Speaker 05

  Thank you so much.

• 18:35Ira Flatow?

  Sarah Nolan, a neonatal intensive care unit music therapist at Children's Hospital of Los Angeles, part of the Mark Taper and Johnny Mercer Artist Program.

• 18:49Ira Flatow?

  That's about all the time we have for now. A lot of people helped make this show happen. Danielle Johnson.

• 18:55Speaker 05

  Jason Rosenberg. Rasha Ridi. Sandy Roberts.

• 19:00Ira Flatow?

  I'm Ira Flatow. Thanks for listening.