Your Personal Guide to Self Discovery w/ Nicole LePera EP 1358

As a clinical psychologist in private practice, Dr. Nicole LePera often found herself frustrated by the limitations of traditional psychotherapy. Wanting more for her patients— and for self— she began a journey to develop a united philosophy of mental, physical, and spiritual health that equips people with the tools necessary to heal themselves. She is the creator of the #SelfHealers movement where people from around the world are joining together in a community to take healing into their own hands. Her first book, How to Do the Work, has resonated within the community and has released her new How to Meet Your Self: The Workbook for Self-Discovery. In this episode you will learn,Why we are prone to self-sabotage. How healing mental wounds affects the nervous system. Why so many of us believe we aren’t lovable. What happens when we abandon ourselves and our boundaries. For more, go to lewishowes.com/1358Check out Dr. LePera’s past episodes here! How to Heal Your Painful Memories, Thoughts & Beliefs to Create a Greater Future: https://link.chtbl.com/1083-podRelationships, Boundaries, and Childhood Trauma: https://link.chtbl.com/932-podBecome a Self-Healer and Break Free of Emotional Cycles: https://link.chtbl.com/844-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Nicole LePera?

  A lot of us, I think on some level, believe that the goal is not to have emotions, or to always be even keel, or peaceful, or not to let anything ever bother me. And the reality of it is emotions.

• 0:11Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. One of the things I want to ask you first is about nervous system and healing. I feel like a lot of people sabotage themselves in life with their careers, with their friendships, with their intimate relationships. And they lack the courage and the confidence to truly be their authentic selves because

• 0:55Lewis Howes?

  of the trauma, the pain, the wounds that is tied to their nervous system. Why do you think it's, why do you think we sabotage ourselves so much? And are we even aware of the wounds that we have?

• 1:10Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Really, really great question. And when we think about trauma, I think naturally, we often think about the moments we can remember when life felt overwhelming, or something very big and bad happened to us. And the reality of trauma and all of the different experiences that lead to nervous system dysregulation, when we feel overwhelmed and namely, undersupport it. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a big event. It could be daily stressors. If we don't have that attuned caregiver that our nervous system quite literally needs to co-regulate, those moments really add up. And they don't go away. Our body remembers them. And I think probably listeners have maybe heard that word used.

• 1:51Dr. Nicole LePera?

  But what that means is it lives in our habits of how we care for our physical body. Our nervous system is so foundational that it actually directs. And often plays a role in how we feel emotionally, how we regulate our feelings and just our entire way of operating or navigating the world around us.

• 2:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 2:10Dr. Nicole LePera?

  So even if this trauma or these overwhelming, under-supported environments for many of us happened in childhood decades ago, it's still living in our mind and in our body. And it does contribute to patterns of self-sabotage, of self-betrayal, of self-harm. And my biggest kind of probably cliched thing I say is oftentimes we're worried about how we're showing up to other people and we can really only be a caring, compassionate, loving partner when we're caring for ourselves. So that inability to honor ourself and our own needs really does impact our relationships and in my opinion, the entire world around us.

• 2:48Lewis Howes?

  So when we sabotage ourselves, when we discount ourselves, when we speak negatively about ourselves to us or to others, when we don't create boundaries for our needs, what happens in all of our relationships when we do that to ourselves?

• 3:05Dr. Nicole LePera?

  We essentially translate that to someone else. If we're not able to show up in love and of self-care, even this concept of love, I think so many of us think it's an external thing, right? It's based on kind of how I'm showing up or a transaction, a behavior that I'm gesturing to someone else. And in my opinion, love is an emotion, it's an embodiment, and it's connected to our ability to be connected to our organ of love, right? Our heart. And unless we are connected to ourself, feeling safe enough in our body to be able to be a loving individual, we're not going to be able to honor those around us. And that the ability to reconnect with our heart really is contingent on safety, on having those needs met.

• 3:50Dr. Nicole LePera?

  So I think while a lot of us, and I'm really happy kind of we're exploring into this, because a lot of us, we Oftentimes label these acts of self-care as selfish, as not a priority, as I don't have the time with very real life obligations orbiting around us. And we do think that we're serving others by putting ourself last. And again, it's the cliche of filling up my own cup first. And reason being, I can map it onto the physiology. If you're not feeling safe, if your needs aren't being met, and therefore you're not feeling safe, the way you're going to be showing up is not going to be a safe partner, and it might not be a loving one.

• 4:27Lewis Howes?

  It could be unhealthy, too, to the people around you, right?

• 4:29Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Right.

• 4:30Lewis Howes?

  Because you're not getting the needs, the love that you need for yourself.

• 4:33Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And the reality of it is, we've all adapted. So there's some ways that we're trying indirectly to get our needs met, or we're attempting to fill those holes, or those things that I never got, that feeling of love. So we've lived in adaptation for so long. And the reality that many of us are living into is the choices that we're making as our best attempt to stay connected, to stay with that feeling of neededness, or love, or support from someone else. We're, speaking of our authentic self, we're modifying. We're not showing up as truly who we are. We're not speaking our truth, or we're not sharing how we actually feel, or maybe our wants, our desires. Those are all getting squashed as a result.

• 5:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:15Dr. Nicole LePera?

  In my opinion, the impact is so, so great, and is so real for so many of us.

• 5:21Lewis Howes?

  What happens if we never learn to heal the nervous system, or just the memories of the past? What happens to us?

• 5:29Dr. Nicole LePera?

  We continue to recycle those early best attempts at coping, at soothing, at creating some semblance of safety. And we, more and more, I think we end up feeling not fulfilled, disempowered. A lot of us then tend to blame the environment around us, which is very true. Because if we're just relying on that autopilot, there is no real space between what's happening and how we typically react. Even speaking about the nervous system really does highlight how a lot of this is neurobiologically, as I say, wired into us. That autopilot that most of us are repeating. We don't have the space. It is a very reactive place, right? This stimulus happens and I always react the same way to it

• 6:14Dr. Nicole LePera?

  and I cope in the same way to it. And I don't have that space to create that change.

• 6:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's learning, you know, I used to be a very reactive person in different situations. Some situations in life would have no effect on me and it would affect other people. And I'd be like, why is that triggering you? Other things that seemed inconsequential, I would react so much, right? Especially in my twenties and teens and even early thirties. And it wasn't until really in the last, you know, five, seven years where I started to, okay, I'm not as jealous anymore in this situation. And now this doesn't trigger me. And when someone cuts me off, I'm not flipping them off in return, you know? And I think it took a lot of healing work for me to get to that space at this time. And I know I have a long way to go. But if I wasn't willing to take a look in the mirror and say, okay, what are all those different things that triggered me?

• 7:02Lewis Howes?

  And how can I mend them? How can I start to heal them? I think I'd still be very reactive. And you talk about how to do the work about emotional maturity. And I think it's learning how to heal and have that emotional maturity, the space in between the event and your response. Would you call that emotional maturity? Or what is that space in between an event and a response? And how you show up?

• 7:26Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I would 100% call that emotional maturity, emotional resilience, really simply the ability to do deal with or to cope with our emotions. And I want to speak to the point because a lot of us, I think on some level, believe that the goal is not to have emotions or to always be even keel or peaceful or not to let anything ever bother me. And the reality of it is emotions contain information. Especially the core emotions are very evolutionarily driven to indicate messages to us. When we are feeling angry, it's usually because we're feeling violated or a need has gone unmet for too long. When we're feeling loss, it's because we have a perceived we're missing something in a given moment and we feel sad usually.

• 8:09Dr. Nicole LePera?

  So emotions have value. The reality though, because very few of us, like myself, grew up with an attuned caregiver who could understand, regulate their emotions, show up as that safe individual to help our nervous system regulate. So then over time, We could gain awareness and understanding and over time, the ability to cope with our own emotions. So few of us were modeled that experience. And so again, we'll adapt. We might even take on the way that we've observed our parents navigating our emotions. And again, the goal isn't to say, I'm an adult and I don't feel anything. I'm emotionally mature. It's actually to be able to drop in and to notice when our body is shifting and changing in terms of its sensations, indicating that we might be feeling something.

• 8:54Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And that that feeling might have value. And then in that space where maturity comes in is not to just react from it. As I know, I still often do in moments, screaming, yelling, you know, not talking to you because I've become upset and fleeing emotionally feels the safest. Both things I learned from my dad and my mom respectively. And ultimately, being mature is learning how to show up, acknowledge what I'm feeling, and then learning a new way to cope with it, to share it, to look for support, to get it out of my body if it is a sensation.

• 9:25Lewis Howes?

  Right. I think Susan David, when she was on, she said that emotions should be data, not the direction to head into, not a reaction of like, I feel angry, now that's the direction I'm going to go into. It's more, okay, that's data. Like you said, how can I breathe into it? What actions do I need to take in a more emotionally mature way? What happens when we always react based on how we feel? And we react with emotional immaturity? What do you think occurs in a human being's life in a relationship or just life in general?

• 9:59Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I think even to expand on Susan David's, right? We become the emotion. A lot of times that reaction, right, is the physiology, is the stress hormone shooting through my body, is the constriction in my muscles, leaving me no option even but to react. From that place.

• 10:16Lewis Howes?

  It's becoming meaning like I am angry as opposed to I'm experiencing the emotion of anger.

• 10:22Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I'm observing my physical body, becoming tense in the same way. I'm becoming constricted, I'm becoming hot, I feel the stress coming through my body. I feel the part of me, the body reaction of anger, but I'm not becoming it. And the impact when we become it, I mean, can be really great. Some of us turn that impact inward and we self-harm. Again, we self-betray, we self-meglect. And others, we project it outward. We find the blame and we react and we cause harm, hurt to our loved ones.

• 10:55Lewis Howes?

  To ourselves and others.

• 10:56Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Ourselves and others. That can be a really shameful place. I mean, when we're hurting, I believe at our core, at least, humans are compassionate creatures. And I believe when we are causing that self or other harm, it is a very shameful place to be.

• 11:11Lewis Howes?

  How do we, why do so many people not believe they are lovable? Why do they not love themselves or believe they're lovable? And how does someone start to begin to believe that they are deserving of love from themselves and others?

• 11:28Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I love this question. I was actually just talking last night, I was hanging out with Lisa Blilu and Jamie Kern. And we were exploring, why do so many of us feel unworthy? What is going on here? And I think the answer lies, again, in our childhood, in our earliest relationships, where as a human infant, we are dependent on someone showing us some level of care to literally keep our, at least at minimum, physical body alive. And for the large majority of us who didn't have physically present parents or who maybe didn't have emotionally attuned or present parents, the more consistently no one showed up for us in service of our needs with the developmental maturity or immaturity that we have at that age, we don't have the ability to pull back, to understand maybe our parents

• 12:11Dr. Nicole LePera?

  or our caregiver's trauma, or the fact that resources are low and mom or dad has to work five, six jobs all throughout the night and aren't able to be physically available. Or maybe mom or dad didn't have emotional attunement in their childhood, so they can't necessarily have the skills to show up for you. Unfortunately, as children. All roads lead back to a very egocentric, or me, I've played a role oriented view. So, in absence of a caregiver showing up, the only way that our very developmentally immature mind can make sense of it, and a human brain is always seeking to make sense of experiences, even in childhood, it will land on some version of, I am the reason this person can't be available

• 12:52Dr. Nicole LePera?

  to me. So, in other words, I am not worthy of this person. Because to speak to your point, at the core, I believe, most of us humans, and we conferred last night and came to the determination that it really doesn't matter what walk of life, or even how much success you might have externally, I think so many of us have that core wound still, and are carrying that with us.

• 13:12Lewis Howes?

  Is that something you still have?

• 13:14Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 13:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:16Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Absolutely. There, and we were, I was musing about and thinking, and I've landed on, I'm not sure if there's, as is the utopian state of dunnness that I think some of us were looking for.

• 13:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm finished.

• 13:26Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I want to be done healing, I'm finished. I just want to kick back, and it's over for me, I can relax. I think maybe the same conversation applies to, you know, self-worth. Meaning, I think that it might be more of a scale. There might be moments where, right, we feel dropped into ourself, what I believe is our inherent power and worth and ability to really create any choice that we would want to make in our life. And then there's all of the other moments, right, where deeper wounds are activated. All of these kind of unconscious conditioning that we're just talking about now, nervous system dysregulation that gets all wrapped up in it, happen, and then we begin to feel less worthy in those moments.

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Yeah, sometimes people feel like the more successful they are, the more they accomplish in their career, or financially, they feel less and less worthy still. And it's like they're accomplishing and achieving, and they should feel more fulfilled, but they still don't. Why do you think that is?

• 14:22Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I mean, that perfectly described me several years ago, when you and I were first meeting even, and I was coming to the awareness that this schooling, right, getting a PhD, opening up this private practice, I mean, talk about years of accomplishment that I'd planned for as long as I can remember, checked all the boxes, opened up, hung my shingle, had a successful practice, had a partner, living in a city, right, had friends, looked around, wondered... Why aren't I feeling fulfilled? Why aren't I feeling happy? Why aren't I feeling connected to this life around me? And for me, like many of us, our career becomes an extension of our attempt at feeling worthy. Mm-hmm. It's through the action of, and I talk a lot about being an overachiever, a perfectionist, right?

• 15:07Dr. Nicole LePera?

  This idea that I am only valued by doing. Uh-huh. And for me, it actually extends not only into these accomplishments, right? The accolades, the things I'm generating in a more professional way. I see myself still trying to perform, as I kind of think of it, in my personal relationships. Really? To make sure that I am worthy of Today. Receiving, yeah, today. Really? Like, can I be the good partner, right? That's showing up in service of whatever you might need, partner? Or can I be the, you know, a needy partner who's good on their own? I don't even need your support. I got it, I'll support you. And when I don't perform in those ways to be in need, to need to ask for support, to show the more vulnerable sides of me, again, something I learned in childhood,

• 15:52Dr. Nicole LePera?

  squashing all of that with the fear that there would be an impact, that I would cause more worry, more stress to an already overwhelmed system. I showed less and less of that. I asked for less and less support. Interesting. I was, nothing bothers Nicole, never anything wrong, and came to realize how that was a performance. Really? It was a deep vulnerability, and now even asking for support. And I had a lot of this come up, actually, around losing my mom last year now. It's been about a year in May. And having moments where I was feeling low. I was feeling like I wanted someone to sit in my grief with me. And what I would witness myself do, usually after the fact when I was angry,

• 16:33Dr. Nicole LePera?

  was A, I would hope, or I would have the idea that my partner should just know what I needed in any Without saying anything. Without saying anything. And not only would I not say anything, Lois, I would actually do the complete opposite. I would push you away, I would be cold, I would be mean to you, I'd even maybe hide in my room. And wondered why I'm being sanctioned alone, why no one's caring, why no one's supporting me.

• 16:53Lewis Howes?

  Right, you don't care about me, yeah.

• 16:55Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I'm not considered is one of my favorite go-to meanings that I make when someone's not available to me, not realizing, A, I never said anything. I never directly said, and no one can mind-read. You need to speak your needs. And not only was I not speaking it, I was giving the complete indication that I wanted otherwise, that I wanted to be alone, that I wanted that distance. And a lot of those challenging moments.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 17:22Dr. Nicole LePera?

  To think about, to work through, and even at times to continue to keep myself sanctioned alone.

• 17:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Dr. Nicole LePera?

  You know, kind of fulfilling or validating that older narrative, and also trying to challenge myself and let in support.

• 17:34Lewis Howes?

  I mean, you've been doing this work for a while now. But specifically in the last three years, your work has exploded online through social media, your private communities. This book was a massive hit. What has been the biggest lesson in the last, I guess, year and a half since the first book came out that came up for you? As you continue to rise in the accomplishment world, what came up for you in the wounded world, I guess, for you?

• 18:04Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Yeah, it's a really interesting question. I think when I, two things come up. One is one of the ways I've dealt with feeling overwhelmed and been able to maintain control. Not only was getting validated through achievement, but it was keeping myself distracted, right? By all of the things that I had to do.

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:25Dr. Nicole LePera?

  To obtain that achievement.

• 18:26Lewis Howes?

  As a social addressing the...

• 18:28Dr. Nicole LePera?

  As opposed to kind of the deeper thing, right? Just always like, oh, I have this thing to do, and this next thing to do, and, you know, checking all of the boxes along the way. And speaking of nervous system, that tendency to distract ourself or keep ourself endlessly busy can actually be a nervous system response of flight. I'm fleeing the deeper discomfort that's happening here by focusing on this endless action that I'm doing. So having the opportunity even to write a new book and go right into right doing mood. Now I do have a very long to-do list to complete this new project. That is always something that is top of mind. And that, for me, starts in the mornings even. Right, I wake up and I could very easily pick up my cellphone, start to address emails as opposed to...

• 19:14Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Keeping that time sacred and time for me to make sure that I'm balanced and I'm committed to my own physical and mental wellness before I then shift into those emails. So that for me is an ever-present challenge and of course it's amplified when I have new big projects that I'm also excited about. So it's how do I find that balance of making sure that I'm still taking care of myself, maybe exploring the deeper challenges that are coming up as I continue to externally achieve and everything that kind of comes along with how I feel about my achievements, how other people feel about the achievements that they're seeing me have. And that's emotional stuff under there. However, it's so easier to say, "Well, I'm busy." Right, and on to the next. And I have a deadline that I have to meet.

• 19:58Dr. Nicole LePera?

  So it's really keeping the space so that I can continue to be connected to the deeper stuff.

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

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• 20:49Lewis Howes?

  MasterClass is available on iOS, Android, Desktop, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, and Roku. It's an amazing experience with invaluable information, and I'm a big fan of the session with Sarah Blakely, who's also been a guest on our show. She's incredible on MasterClass, and I encourage you to check it out. This holiday, give one annual membership and you get one for free. Go to masterclass.com/greatness today. That's masterclass.com/greatness. Terms apply. What is the thing that you feel like will support you the most as you continue to evolve and grow as a human in your career, with the service you're doing in your work, in a relationship that you have?

• 21:32Lewis Howes?

  What is the thing that you feel like if you could continue to...

• 21:37Lewis Howes?

  Process, heal, let go of, elevate, beyond will support you the most. What is that thing for you?

• 21:43Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Keeping connected in space and time for me. As someone who grew up with very limited boundaries in my family, I actually spent a lot of time physically present, growing up in a city home, that there wasn't much space or rooms. There was always someone there. We tended to move in a, in a system, us La Peras. We like to think and believe the same things, eat the same food, make the same choices of how to spend our time, and I carry still remnants of that. So as much as I was just kind of describing emotionally, part of my healing is letting people in to my emotional world, allowing them to join me. There is very big part of my healing journey that also needs to create a separation and a

• 22:25Dr. Nicole LePera?

  confidence that I can and will meet my own needs, even in absence of that person being there. And I see this in moments from, oh, you know, what are, what are you doing, partner? Let me go, let's spend time with you. Or, you know, what do you want to eat? And kind of deferring and not being able to at times, even if they are present and available to me, coming to the reality that sometimes I need time away. I live and work with the two partners that I'm in partnership with, and that's a lot of people. And so for me, it's honoring time, space for just me. And that might sometimes mean I've found some solace in traveling to Sedona for long weekends. And this is something that, I don't think I had my first day trip alone until my late 30s. I spent no time alone.

• 23:10Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I think, yes, I took myself out, I remember the moment, for the first meal alone when I was something like 25 years old, and I sat down and I ate a meal alone. So for me, it's aloneness that continues to be really integral to my healing. Knowing when I need time to rebalance and separate, so that when I do come back, I'm more whole, I'm more connected, and I'm able to be a better partner.

• 23:30Lewis Howes?

  So how do your partners understand then, when you, you know you need your own boundaries to have space away, but also you're just saying, sometimes I might be, I don't know, passive aggressive or avoidant or whatever, you know, the silent treatment, and then in my alone time, in my room or space, and feeling like they're not taking care of me, or not supporting me, or thinking of me.

• 23:51Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Yeah.

• 23:51Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of like, how do you communicate then with a partner about, hey, I just need alone time versus? I need you to come and check on me in my alone time.

• 24:00Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Yeah, first, I mean, we need to get clear ourselves and I'm still figuring my way out too. When is this agitation something I need to be dealing with separate? Because that's how it usually manifests in me. I start to feel irritable, agitated, little things that I could usually, you know, kind of look past or that don't typically bother me. I will start to get passive aggressive, say starky remarks and, okay, Nicole, you're getting agitated and figuring out the difference then between, okay, this is an agitation that would be best served by me maybe even just taking a walk, not necessarily even traveling for a weekend.

• 24:34Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 24:34Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Taking some space to just be in my own energy. Different than in the moments where I want you to join me. Because for me agitation is usually a sign that my nervous system is dysregulated, which is typically for me better served with finding some balance before I then engage or ask my partner to co-regulate. You have to be open to the support, right, before, instead of like I am, come help me when I have my arm out.

• 24:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's so much things can be resolved if we just take thirty minute walk in nature before coming back to the conversation.

• 25:06Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Yes.

• 25:06Lewis Howes?

  You know, not talking before responding from a nervous system trigger, right? So much less pain, just taking a little bit of space in between the event and the response, right?

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. I'm curious about, you mentioned kind of boundaries there and creating boundaries. What happens when we abandon ourselves on the boundaries that we need personally for ourselves? Whether, when we're alone and also what happens when we abandon ourselves with others all the time?

• 25:40Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Yeah, when we abandon ourself, I think ultimately we don't first at least, look or hold ourself responsible. I don't even think we're aware that we're abandoning ourself. And I think what we more often do is we hold subconsciously this other person responsible. And then when our need isn't met. So we've abandoned ourself and didn't allow our need to be met. Instead of saying, oh, well, Nicole, you know, you didn't in this instance share that you needed support. That was the moment where you did not open yourself up to then receive the support. Instead, we do exactly what I, like most of us did in my, throughout my twenties, which was we blame the other person with this idea that if I just found the right partner

• 26:23Dr. Nicole LePera?

  or if you could just change the way you are a little bit and show up in this different way, then I wouldn't feel that way. We externalize the focus, the blame, and quickly that turns into resentment, which before long can be the ending of a relationship. We've held you responsible for so long that that will bring up contempt.

• 26:49Lewis Howes?

  When we put our feelings, the responsibility of our feelings on other people, like you made me feel this way, like you did this to me, and now I feel this way, and you need to change that. What happens in a relationship when you put the responsibility on the other as opposed to yourself?

• 27:07Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Not only do you set yourself up for resentment, I mean, I think at our core, we are disempowering ourselves. We're taking, right, that emotion, that, that energy of change and we're giving it.

• 27:19Lewis Howes?

  To someone else.

• 27:20Dr. Nicole LePera?

  To someone else.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  They have power over us.

• 27:21Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Now we're reliant on them modifying the way they're showing up. And the reality of it is, I mean, even the way I was just describing a couple of minutes ago, emotions, right? And even what you shared a bit earlier, I feel sometimes things don't bother me and they bother other people. And other times, things bother me and they don't bother other people.

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Right, I think that's a really prime, simple example of how individual and subjective emotions are. There are physiological changes that happen in our body that are, you know, related to how we're making meaning. All the conversations, like topics we've just been talking about. How we're making meaning of an event, how it's personally relevant to us. So in my instance, right, I'm, I'm not considered in this moment and now I'm going to feel as if that's true. And this is subjectively happening, this filter for each of us outside of our awareness and what we're maybe, maybe tuning into, if we're connected to our body, is the emotional experience. And we might be tuning into the reaction. That we're having from that place, but we're going to disempower ourself if we're hoping you change that I don't have to feel this way.

• 28:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:23Dr. Nicole LePera?

  More empowered stance could be becoming conscious that I do consistently tend to feel this way. And maybe I can even pull back the onion a bit more and turn my spotlight of attention, like I say, to the stories, the actual narrative, the meaning I've assigned to that unanswered text or to the dishes not being done, or you know, the gesture that my partner didn't give me. Oh, it's because you didn't consider me. Now, the more we see those narratives, I think the more than we can get clarity on how we are, maybe our past even is contributing and then again, give ourselves the space to become emotionally mature and to learn how to regulate as opposed to relying on the world around me changing so that I don't have that reaction anymore.

• 29:03Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard to put our, you know, the emotional responsibility of how we feel on someone else. It's so challenging. We've got to be responsible for our own joy and happiness. Obviously, people might do something that you don't agree with and so you have to have a conscious conversation and say, hey, this is a boundary and here, or here's my needs. Can we do more of this? But relying on the other person to make you happy is, is going to be very challenging because if they don't make you happy consistently, then you're going to blame them, right? And you're going to want them to change, change who you are, change this, I need more of this, more of this, and it's still never going to feel like enough, which is challenging. Something I want to ask you about, I don't think, I haven't seen you since I started doing this work, but I've had two different photos of my younger

• 29:47Lewis Howes?

  self on my phone since I was in the last, in January of last year. So I haven't seen you since, I guess, I started doing a lot of healing work myself and I've been talking about it on the show for the last year and a half. And I had a younger photo of myself when I was about five for maybe a year. And I've got about a nine, 10, 11 year old version of myself. And it's been an amazing journey to go back and heal certain memories and wounds of the, in the little boy inside of me, right, that felt unseen or unheard or neglected or sexually abused and all these different things that did occur. And then the stories that I told myself about those things or other things that were not met based on what I wanted.

• 30:30Lewis Howes?

  It's been incredibly healing, the journey to do exercises, intimate work of reconnecting with that little boy inside of me, right? And going back into the past, bringing it to the present, saying, "I've got you. I'm an adult in the room now. I can take care of us. I've got your back. Thank you for getting us here. Thank you for overcoming all those challenges and pains and traumas and confusion of the world and relationships and parents, all that stuff. You did the best you could. Not blaming him, but you did the best you could. Thank you. Now I'm gonna carry us into the next season of life.

• 31:12Lewis Howes?

  And I'm doing that for the version of my 10, 11, 12-year-old self that had different challenges and adversities. And I'm gonna kind of do this, you know, every five years of like, "Okay, what were the pains and the relationships wounds I had here?" Until it's all kind of come back into where I am now, to kind of mend those wounds. How important is it for us to do the inner child healing? And more people are talking about this in the last few years. And what happens if we neglect the little boy or girl or human inside of us that still has those wounds?

• 31:48Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I appreciate you. I was getting chills, actually, feeling my body when you were sharing that. And I really appreciate you speaking so openly, readily, and showing your picture.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 31:57Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Because this is one of those areas and those concepts where some of us, even as adults, might even feel a little silly when we hear "inner child." What do you mean? I'm like, decades beyond childhood. I'm past that ultimately. Though the reality of it is, just like we were speaking about in terms of trauma and the memory that lives in our mind and our body, even if we are decades past, right? This childhood time, this little being that maybe some of us are looking at the picture.

• 32:20Lewis Howes?

  It's still stored. It's still stored in us.

• 32:22Dr. Nicole LePera?

  It's still in us. And it's in those moments, right? Where we're having that emotional reaction, where we are feeling less than unworthy, not good enough, that that is very much alive and real. And that's part of the complexity of our human experiences. Even if it's not objectively present in real time, if our body is going through that physiological reaction... It might as well be, the stress that we're, you know, kind of feeling through our bodies is, is real, even if it's not happening in our current moment.

• 32:51Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 32:52Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I think that's such a huge, important acknowledgement is that we are carrying the aftermath of those early events and a lot of times we can see them in our emotional reactions or in our, our core beliefs as they show up for a lot of us, day to day even. And learning how to first just create a relationship with that space. Because even if those feelings aren't mapping on to the objective reality of what's happening here and now, doesn't make them any less real.

• 33:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:20Dr. Nicole LePera?

  So for a lot of us, when we are exploring our inner child, I think one of the first things that really comes to the surface is, is the hurt, the grief, the mourning even.

• 33:30Lewis Howes?

  It's not fun to look at.

• 33:31Dr. Nicole LePera?

  That we're carrying with us, maybe for some of us for relationships that never were, for needs that never had been met. And then for everything really in between and creating space to be a compassionate witness, not to, you know, kind of fall into the mindset of, oh, well, that's back then. Right? I don't have time to worry about that now. And really allowing yourself that moment of whatever the feeling is to be the case. And then like you're very beautifully describing, acknowledging that you do have another aspect of your consciousness now. You do, you can access new choices. And you can then in that space, learn new tools to, of how to create safety for that inner child.

• 34:12Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And I believe for most of us, that's part of the journey, whether you want to call it inner child work or not. It's really just acknowledging these older reactions and really creating the space to embody the change. And I'm very intentional with saying embody the change because again, this is where we can't just have the idea, we can't read a book about a new tool.

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  Can't be analytical.

• 34:32Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And never do anything, right? It really is the embodiment of, you know, safety, of a new way to cope with my sadness or my grief or my anger in a way that doesn't, or even just general new ways to care for my being that maybe I never learned in childhood that can translate into self-love over time.

• 34:51Lewis Howes?

  When I started to do the, the healing journey, as my therapist says, it's a journey. It's, you know, it's not like, okay, I've arrived and it's done.

• 34:59Dr. Nicole LePera?

  That done this.

• 34:59Lewis Howes?

  It's not a destination. It's like, it's not a one-time event. Like, okay, now I'm aware. Although when I started to do the, the processing of the inner child, it probably took about four and a half months of. Six-hour sessions on Saturdays and every week diving in for two or three hours with my therapist about this for many months because I was just like struggling in an intimate relationship that I was like, I need to find healing, I need to find peace, I need to create clarity, freedom, I didn't feel free, all these things, right? But it was really all about me, it was never about another person, it was about how I was feeling. But I realized there was a pattern of different people that I would be attracting in intimate

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  relationships for my whole life, based on wounds and inner child traumas. And it wasn't until I started doing the healing work, there was a physical pain in my chest and in my throat that I would feel, that eventually went away in one moment. Like I could feel this ball of pain in my chest after many, many months of having it, coming and going, really disintegrate in my chest and kind of like dissolve throughout my body. And I was like, okay, that was interesting. But it was many months of intensive emotional therapy, right? And I felt this and I go, wow, that's really interesting. And I remember finally connecting that I am a free human being, that I'm not trapped,

• 36:27Lewis Howes?

  that I'm not stuck, that I don't need to change who I am to love myself or to get love from someone else, all these things that I felt like I had to do based on a story and a wound of the past. And I remember, I was like, wow, this is powerful. Now, I still had come like PTSD feeling in my nervous system when things would come up, but I was able to have the courage to respond differently. And the more consistent my courage of response from a place of, okay, I'm feeling this, but I'm not going to react the way I always have in my life, it created more confidence in myself. And then my nervous system began to heal as well. And so when those things come up, I don't really feel it as much, there might be a

• 37:09Lewis Howes?

  little bit, but it's not like this, you need to react and respond from a fight or flight. And it has been a beautiful year and a half journey of peace and healing. But I'm a true believer, it's because I continue to do it once I've realized it. I didn't say, okay, this pain is gone, I've got the answer, I'm done. I show up every two weeks, I do the work, you know, like you say, I'm doing the intensive work. And continuing the process of connecting the earliest memories to the next stage of memories and trying to bridge the gap to where I am now, the different psychological memories of the past, whether you want to call it the inner child or the memories, right? And I'm just such a firm believer of what you're teaching and how to do the work

• 37:54Lewis Howes?

  and, again, recognizing your patterns to heal from the past and create yourself, right? And so I'm so grateful for this. I'm curious, what is an exercise in your book, How to Do the Work, or the new workbook, that people can start, that maybe isn't that scary to get started if they think, Louis, what are you talking about, this healing the inner child stuff? What is this stuff? This is crazy. What is one exercise people can start with to just be aware on the inner child or the memories of the past that will help them regulate their nervous system?

• 38:27Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Absolutely. Awareness, you'll always hear me, sight begins with learning how to be that aware being or to live in that conscious state, being the observer of our thoughts, our emotional reactions, the way then we're reacting, I want to say responding there, reacting, right? In the world around us, it's that observation step. But I want to go back to something really profound that you said by acknowledging your courage in choosing, because I want to highlight how any, even if very logically, right? So many of us have lived the aftermath of those old reactive ways of being, whether itself or other harm, and we have all of this now. Data points to say, okay, that doesn't work. So logically, this is how the new way I would like to respond in my being the next time this happens.

• 39:12Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And low and behold, when that time comes, because that will be, I'm going to really simplify it, a new response, right? I will embody something new, I will make a new choice in that moment. Inevitably, inevitably, that's going to challenge our subconscious mind that prefers those familiar patterns. It's actually an adaptation, because we get to predict, and there's safety in that prediction. Even if the aftermath is consequential in whatever way it is, it's known. I've verified it. Some of us for decades, we've verified, yep, that's what happens next. And now, if I'm on the brink of making a new choice in and of itself, before I even make the choice, I might be faced with the resistance, that pullback,

• 39:56Dr. Nicole LePera?

  all of the reasons why I shouldn't make that new choice. If we do dare. To embody or to do something new in that moment, it might even, that resistance might even drop into our body.

• 40:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:06Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Where we feel uncomfortable. We begin to feel that discomfort of that unfamiliar experience.

• 40:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 40:13Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And some of us, again, that could contribute to leading us right back into those old familiar habits and patterns. So, once we become conscious, then it really is a challenge to our mind-body system to embody these new choices. They don't come easy. And funny enough, one of the things I was thinking about earlier when we were talking about something else was for me physically, I used to avoid not only emotional discomfort, but physical discomfort. Even though I played sports my entire life through college, when it came to stretching my muscles, and I was always very tight. Tight from, you've guessed it, my nervous system and my stress response. And I remember I used to have these big trainers pushing on my hamstrings, trying to stretch me. And I'm crying. Anytime my physical body felt uncomfortable. And once I stopped playing sports in college,

• 40:58Dr. Nicole LePera?

  any physical discomfort, I would avoid it. Oh, that means my body's not meant to move like that. Oh, I don't have the stamina to walk around for this many minutes, so I'm gonna not do it. Erroniously, or, you know, in error, thinking that this discomfort was, you know, my intuition, my body telling me, oh, you've reached your limit, Nicole. And really, it was just that old pattern of avoiding things that were uncomfortable. And one of the most foundational changes that I reference to in how to do the work is how for me, rebuilding that connection to my body, challenging my body to, and it wasn't anything extreme. I didn't enter the gym. I still didn't even enter the gym. I, it's about the small, consistent. For me, it started with just daily stretching

• 41:41Dr. Nicole LePera?

  for 10 minutes a day, popping in a yoga video and stretching my body to that point of discomfort. And instead of abandoning yoga and I'm done with it for the day today, just allowing myself to breathe in that space.

• 41:52Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 41:52Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And so whether or not it's your physical body, any new promise or new choice that we set the intention to make outside of that familiar comfort zone, acknowledging that it will challenge our subconscious, so keeping that promise small. And then there's the embodied practice. Meeting that resistance. All the thoughts that are telling you to abandon ship. Maybe all that discomfort in your body as you're doing something new, responding in a new way, taking some belly breaths instead of yelling and screaming. And then expanding that stress resilience or that emotional resilience you were talking about earlier. Learning that you can tolerate a bit more of that discomfort than you thought that you could, and that's how you develop that confidence that you were speaking of.

• 42:31Lewis Howes?

  So interesting, you're talking about familiarity. I was thinking about in relationships where we'll see, I speak for myself, but I also see other people that stay in relationships that are hurtful or harmful or not a part of their vision of a high conscious relationship, but they stay because it's familiar. And then when you sometimes meet someone who is very loving and kind and generous, it's not familiar. And you almost push that away because they're like, okay, that doesn't feel safe because it's unfamiliar. But really, it's just different. And it's really probably what you need the most of is this kind of safer environment. But why are we so tied to repeating a pattern of familiarity,

• 43:15Lewis Howes?

  even if it's painful, as opposed to creating a loving environment in relationships that we know will support us thrive? Why do we do that?

• 43:24Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I think one of the most counterintuitive spaces to muse or consider this question is why it is so difficult for many of us to be in stillness, to be in peace. We do on some deep level create and prefer the stress, those patterns, the negativity even of it. And again, a lot of this goes back to how embodied these topics are that we're speaking of. They're not just thoughts in our mind. They're mapping onto physiological changes outside of our nervous system, in our hormones and cortisol, and how our body is adapting to the present nature of these continued habits and patterns.

• 44:03Dr. Nicole LePera?

  So our body gets used to these certain ways of being and prefers that familiar because something even as Logical as peace, which we should all desire.

• 44:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 44:16Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Right, and I share my story all the time for so long, right, being a hippie at heart. All I've been endlessly searching for is the ability, and you said one word earlier too, to be free and to be peaceful. Those for me are like, feel like what we could call core.

• 44:28Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 44:29Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Driving values. I want to be at peace. I want to have a safe, comfortable, peaceful, calm existence. And I want to have the freedom to do that. Yet, what I would find time and time again is when there was the moment where there wasn't a stressful experience happening, or say I was home alone without anyone around me to energetically, you know, cause me any disturbance. It wasn't that logically, it was my body. I had so much trauma and stress in my nervous system. And for a lot of us, safety doesn't, I mean, quiet, stillness, stop, doesn't feel safe. If we've grown up in an environment where that wasn't present. So, counterintuitively, here I am, the hippie, wondering where my safe space is, and yet, wherever you go, there you are, right, the junk about Zen book.

• 45:13Dr. Nicole LePera?

  There I was all of the time, but what was there was this dysregulated nervous system. So, in those moments on my couch with no one present, my body was sending me, my brain, so many messages of stress, of cortisol, of my heart, right, still beating out of my chest because my nervous system was dysregulated. I was in fight or flight in that moment. So, my mind was left with no other option but to integrate that into this meaning of what's happening, and it would then find the stressful event. Oh, right. It was that assignment you didn't do. It was this deadline you have tomorrow. You know what? Actually, it was this fight that you had with your partner because she gave you a look that you didn't like, and now you're stressed out about that because what did that mean?

• 45:55Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Not realizing that my body was contributing to that story. Because our mind always seeks alignment. Scanning down what's happening in my body. Oh, it's stressed out. That must mean something stressful happened. Let me figure out what it is.

• 46:10Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so does everything come back to the nervous system then? Like this, our level, our ability to have peace, feel loved, feel safe, come back to how our nervous system is connected to our mind and our thoughts and our, and our body?

• 46:24Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Yes, if our nervous system isn't in the parasympathetic mode of safety, of a particular branch of it called the ventral vagal, which allows us to be connected to the world around us, to our heart that I was talking about earlier, if we're not in that, and that, do you feel peaceful, do you feel calm, are you able to breathe deeply from your belly? Do your muscles feel, you know, available but not tense? Are you in that space? And the answer probably for most of us is no. My heart's, you know, beating out of my chest, I'm sweating, I'm on edge waiting for the next stress to happen, or I might be on the other end of that spectrum. I might be completely shut down. Energy, what energy? I can't get out of bed. Muscles, I feel like I have no, you know, ability, I'm so fatigued in my muscles.

• 47:09Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I have no interest in life. A lot of us have called that for decades, depression, have located the genetic, you know, idea of this genetic component, which there is a genetic component, but a lot of us are in a nervous system state of shutdown. It's our nervous system that is causing those symptoms. So, to simply answer your question, our nervous system impacts everything, from our ability to be in that peaceful, connected place, to even kind of how we think about ourselves, to how we navigate ourself showing up in our environments, and really every choice that we make.

• 47:45Lewis Howes?

  There's a, I don't know if it's a proverb or a quote out there, that goes something like, it's better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war. And as we were talking about this, I was thinking about how, you know, as you started to stretch yourself and allow yourself to experience some...

• 48:07Lewis Howes?

  I don't know, conscious pain, right? You then were able to bring on the stresses of life in a more peaceful way. It's like if we don't experience some conscious pain in our lives by whether it be moving your body or working out or doing the healing work, pain is going to pile on top of us. And so I'm a big believer in doing the things, having discipline on a daily basis, to push yourself a little bit and do the uncomfortable things, whether it's uncomfortable conversations, uncomfortable movement, so that you can take on the stresses of life and be peaceful, you know, when there is an attack, you know, as opposed to reactive, so stressed, but you have awareness.

• 48:49Lewis Howes?

  You're like the, you know, the silverback gorilla who can just kind of see the chaos of all the monkeys around them and not be reacting. And then you just kind of move through the space and say, okay, let's stop this, you know, with some more calm because you have confidence in yourself. You've done the work and you feel at peace in your body so that you don't have to feel pain when there's stress around you. And I think that's, you know, something I've always believed in is kind of putting yourself through a conscious pain, not hurting yourself, but helping yourself by expanding and stretching yourself. And I think a lot of people reject pain. They reject stretching, whether it be physical stretching or emotional stretching,

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  and that causes more pain in the future when you do that.

• 49:36Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And I think sometimes we do think that that's the goal is to get to a place where, like me, nothing bothers me, right? Where we don't register the emotional aspect of the life around us. And emotions were grounded, in my opinion, in evolution. They all, like I said, the core emotions at least have played a role in giving us that information that has helped us to survive. And I'm saying all to say, they're probably not going to go anywhere, right? And we don't want them to.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:04Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I think while so many of us, again, back to this elusive done place. I think a lot of us have this idea that once I kind of come up with the protocol, right, with how to live, that I'm just gonna do that on repeat for the next however many decades we're alive. And while that might be a, you know, a nice intention to set, my question is always honoring the evolution of our human organism, of this body that's aging, right? I'm this age now, I don't actually know what it's gonna feel like living in my body as it continues to change as I age. I don't know what experiences and relationships and change I will undergo. So this protocol that I developed maybe in my twenties or thirties might not apply to me in my fifties, sixties, or seventies.

• 50:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:47Dr. Nicole LePera?

  So, in my opinion, similar to the conversation we were having about externalizing blame, right, when we externalize our compass as well, right? Even if it's this like, protocol that worked in my twenties, in my opinion, we're still relying on something outside of us. And in my opinion, this intuition, this guidance that we're looking for is actually inside, and you probably guessed it by now, it speaks through our body. It's about learning how to continue to be connected to my changing body as I age into the decades, and to drop in as my body's now experiencing changing circumstances and relationships, and then looking for guidance in those moments, as opposed to this external, "Oh, well, this worked last year, so I'm gonna do that again."

• 51:29Dr. Nicole LePera?

  We will attempt that, but in the instance where that's not the thing that's going to align with us now, if we're only relying on that, we're gonna keep recycling, possibly some of us, habits that won't continue to serve us as we grow and change.

• 51:44Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  I want to ask you about relationships for a moment, because I think you have a, you know, an interesting perspective about relationships with the relationships you're in, intimate relationships. And I'm curious

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  how people can navigate, how they can set themselves up for success in intimate partnerships with what's happening in the world, and just everything that's around them right now.

• 52:10Lewis Howes?

  So I want to unpack this for a minute. So do the same principles apply to same-sex relationships as, I guess, opposite-sex relationships? In terms of what we should be looking for, how we should be communicating, roles, responsibilities, masculine, feminine energy, or is it different? I want to start there first.

• 52:30Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Personally, I think, you know, humans relating to other humans dynamically, whether, whatever gender you identify with, it comes to the same components at our core. I believe we are more similar than dissimilar, but that doesn't mean that, even, again, throwing away gender designations, individuals are different. We actually thrive as a species when we allow, like a puzzle, all of us to have differences, different ideas, different strengths, different weaknesses, right, different ways of being in navigating the world. So when we're talking about our most intimate, you know, personal, romantic relationships, whether, regardless of the gender that you're attracted to or engaging in relationships with,

• 53:15Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I think the core components are the same. And at our core, we all desire to be in relationship, to be connected. It might not be romantic. I'm open to actually a future where we begin to explore different iterations of relationships that might work for us. But at our core, we all desire to be part of some interpersonal dynamic.

• 53:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:36Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Whether it's with one person, with a community of people, whatever it is, we need that. And in that then, space of this relationship, whatever it might look like, we all have the same desire to be honored for our individuality. So without even needing to gender it, I think if we make more and more space to create safety for every participant to begin to be who they really are, I think that's the goal ultimately.

• 54:04Lewis Howes?

  Does that come down, does that come down to like total acceptance of your partner? Or what does that mean?

• 54:11Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Depends on how we're defining, right?

• 54:13Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 54:14Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Acceptance, because I think this is a blurred line some of us go to where we have the idea that acceptance means enabling, condoning, allowing behaviors.

• 54:22Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 54:22Dr. Nicole LePera?

  We can accept someone for how they are, or how they're choosing to be, or whatever it is, and make a choice that might be different then.

• 54:32Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:32Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Right, engaging, enabling, allowing.

• 54:35Lewis Howes?

  I've got a philosophy. I'd love your opinion to break this apart, or tell me if you think it's, you know, a decent philosophy, or there's... I'm sure I'll add to this philosophy, but I'm learning more and more through my healing journey, through my work, through experiencing a beautiful relationship that I have right now with Martha, my girlfriend, and us doing the healing work together. When I started, before I got into the relationship with Martha, I said, "Listen, I've always wanted to start in a relationship with therapy." Not because something's wrong or off, but because I want us both on the same page. Because I want to minimize future pain because we're not communicating or something. And it was kind of a, it was kind of a non-negotiable for me,

• 55:20Lewis Howes?

  entering this new relationship, because I was like, I either want to be single, and at peace and love myself, or this needs to happen to allow for the potential for it to work in a beautiful way. And so thankfully, she was all about it. She was like, "Yes, that sounds great." And it's incredible what we've been able to cultivate with this environment of shared commitment to healing growth, both individually and together. So, I have this kind of like six-part philosophy right now, and I'm sure it'll have more parts to it, on setting up the best foundation for a thriving, fulfilling intimate relationship.

• 56:02Lewis Howes?

  The first thing is both individuals being committed to a healing journey. A growth mindset, but it means diving into the healing journey individually and together. So, working on it together and individually. Not one partner only committed to growth and healing, and the other partner is saying, "Well, I'm not going to look at these things, and I'm just going to allow myself to react." But both parties being on a healing journey, that's number one. And committed to it throughout the entire relationship.

• 56:32Lewis Howes?

  Number two is, number two, three, and four is having alignment on our values, our vision, and our lifestyle. Our values of what we really care about as individuals. And so I actually went to Sedona with Martha, and we did a journaling practice separately, where we both wrote down our values before we got committed. And I wanted to make sure that I didn't just say something and she said it back or vice versa.

• 56:56Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Oh yeah, sure, me too.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  So we both wrote it down separately in different exercises, then we looked at the paper together. And about 80% was all aligned, right? There was, and the things that we had differently were not out of alignment. It was just like, okay, cool, you care about that, that's fine. But our values were in alignment, right? As opposed to, you know, someone saying, well, I don't, I don't want to have kids, and the other person wanting kids, or whatever it might be. It's like we were in alignment on almost everything. So the values, the vision, what is the vision for our life in a relationship? Is it aligned? Do we have the same vision? Do we go in the same place as opposed to different directions? And then our lifestyle. Are we in alignment on, you know, the types of things we enjoy doing? Because I think if, if one person loves to travel,

• 57:42Lewis Howes?

  and the other person just wants to stay at home, there's just going to be a little bit more friction. I'm not saying it's not possible, I just think it's harder. So values, vision, and lifestyle. That's two, three, and four. Number five would be, before you enter a committed relationship, accepting, learning about them in a conscious way, through spiritual connection, not sexual chemistry. Because I think the sexual chemistry confuses us, without getting clear on all these other things first, right? There's a false foundation, without the clarity of the values, vision, and lifestyle. So, once you see and explore the individual you're in front of, saying, "I choose you and accept you for how you've shown up, with your, your behaviors and your words match your actions consistently."

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  So having, accepting the person and saying, okay, if this is who you are, I accept you. You don't need to change for me because we're in alignment on these things. So I accept who you are. Now, if you fall off of a standard that we have on these, these shared values, then that's different, right? Something's gotta give there. So that's number five is accepting someone based on how they've shown up, not hoping that they'll change or investing in them for the potential of what they'll do in five to 10 years. Well, maybe they can step into this, right? And then the sixth thing, I just think is so critical. And I know this is like a, a popular book, which some people may agree with a lot, but I feel like it's so critical

• 59:10Lewis Howes?

  to how we were raised is having alignment on love languages. I've been in relationships where the way I've given and expressed love is not the way someone needs to receive it. They don't feel loved that way through words of affirmation or touch. And it's just more friction to have to do something that personally you don't typically do. So if you, if someone really wants you to give gifts all the time and you're like, I don't care about that. You have to constantly do something you're not good at, a weakness, and try to improve that to make someone feel loved. So being in alignment on love languages and both doing the tests to see, are we in alignment? Is how I show up make you feel loved naturally and organically?

• 59:55Lewis Howes?

  And vice versa? Or do you need me to become someone else for you to feel loved? Those six phases, I feel like if you can find, again, there's no perfect relationship, I get it. But if you can find alignment on those six things and be on the healing journey of acceptance of we're both in this together, shared values, vision and lifestyle, choosing based on accepting who they are, not the potential of who they become or the idea of them. And then having alignment on, on love languages. I feel like you're setting yourself up for a good environment for the potential to thrive and create peace and fulfillment. What are your thoughts on that philosophy of my, you know, newfound experiences about love and intimacy?

• 1:00:36Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Well, I'm smiling. I think there's so much profound in what you're sharing. And the first really profound aspect of everything you've shared, and I'm going to simplify it as I often do, is knowing yourself.

• 1:00:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And I'm sharing this because I've heard from a very large percentage of people how more often than not, the focus when you begin to meet someone, get to know them, go out on dates, whatever it is, however that looks for you, focusing more on, well, do they like me? Are they going to call me back? How was it the date for them, right? As opposed to, do I like them? How am I experiencing this person? Is this someone I have interest in getting to know more? So I think that's one really important, profound aspect of what you're sharing, which is going, being at that or cultivating and continuing to increase your self-awareness, what you want. And so many of us, again, from childhood, there was safety, maybe even,

• 1:01:30Dr. Nicole LePera?

  and worrying so much about other people and fitting your way into or being liked by someone else. So if you do see those patterns in yourself, I would imagine that they were adaptations that, again, were aimed at keeping you safe. So then the goal would be to begin to turn that focus and as opposed to worrying about what they think of you. And if you're going to get that call back, begin to attune to how you feel in this person's presence. And another profound thing is communication.

• 1:01:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:01:57Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And this might seem so simplistic, but I used to do a lot of work with couples. When I was in Philadelphia, I worked at the Council for Relationship, it was called. And true to its name, most people that came through the doors for treatment and sat in my office were couples. And I mean, it's shocking to think of couples even on the brink of making a commitment like marriage, who haven't actually had a direct conversation about, let alone values, if they even are knowing what their own values are around children. Like actual decisions that might, the couple might, you know, face together, never having directly explored with their partner what their interest is in terms of having children or not, what physical geographical location like they want to look at, how might they want their life to look. You brought up travel.

• 1:02:40Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Some of these things for so many, many more couples than I would have imagined, aren't actually spoken about. And maybe some of it is because these people as individuals might not know, right? Discovering yourself in that way, what are your values? Even if we are adults who maybe heard that word "value" and want to live a value-driven life, we might not actually know what we value and how we want our future. We might be relying on the relationships we saw in childhood or the limitations that we've created based on, right, the adaptations, how we felt we had to amend ourselves. So, those two things, while I simplified them, are a big part, you know, of that dating journey.

• 1:03:22Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Getting really connected to you so that you can not only know if you're interested in someone, so you can have those conversations that you and Martha had, where you're able to show up with your side of the value sheet to even see if there is alignment there. And then communication, communication, communication. I'm having a thought too, just quickly about the love languages. And without going into too much detail, I'm very interested. I have another surprise book project that may be coming down the line, all about relationships, called "How to Be the Love You Seek." And in that, I actually have a whole chapter devoted to questioning this old model of love languages, very similarly to the way you're questioning it, so.

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. That's cool.

• 1:04:02Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Definitely a thing to think about. And I feel very similarly with, is that just an extension of adapting, making someone change? I really explore where love comes from in and of itself. I mean, even the title, "How to Be the Love You Seek", really, again, trying to put the focus kind of not only back on the self, but on authenticity and space for that authenticity in our relationships.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  I think one of the, I hear this said by a lot of people, so I'm not sure who originally said this, but a lot of people say, you know, if you're trying to find a great partner, make a list of everything you want of that partner and then go become that, right? And then attract from the list that you want from someone else. Become those things, you know, the partner you seek. Be it, like you said first, And you'll start to recognize, you know, like in athletics, game recognizes game. It's like, oh yeah, I respect that. Okay. You start to attract each other from a healthy place as well. A whole place or a process of creating wholeness inside of yourself as opposed to trauma bonding or wounded, you know, connection.

• 1:05:08Lewis Howes?

  Or trying to fix or rescue or those type of dynamics. I think what you mentioned before, a lot of people try to become their best self. They try to put their best foot forward when they start meeting someone as opposed to putting their honest self forward. And we are afraid sometimes to be fully honest because it might push someone away. And I think that should excite us when we are honest with someone. Does it draw them into us and make them accept and love us more or excited about us more and discovering the relationship? Or does it push people away? I think people hide the truth in their honesty so much to be liked and be needed and to try to make it work. That later that truth or that honesty comes out and it's years later.

• 1:05:52Lewis Howes?

  And it usually is like, well, that's not what I expected or that's not how you showed up originally. So with Martha, when I first met her, I said, listen, I'm going to tell you the truth about everything, but you're not going to be able to handle it. Cause I've never been in a relationship with a partner where they've handled the truth well. They've usually reacted or got emotional or angry or upset that they couldn't believe the honesty in my truth. And she said, please be truthful because all the people I've been with always hid that until later and then I always found out. So I don't care if it hurts me or if I don't like it, be truthful. And I said, well, a lot of things I'm going to say that you're going to walk away from. And so you sure? And she said, yes. And thankfully I've just been able to be honest about all my values, my vision, my beliefs, all these things.

• 1:06:37Lewis Howes?

  And she's accepted it. So it allows me to continue to feel safe. You know what I mean? Because there's not this reaction to honesty. So I think that's really cool. But I think I lack the courage and I think a lot of people lack that courage of being fully honest about what they want, their values, their vision, who they are. And I think it suffers in the relationship later on. What did you say?

• 1:06:59Dr. Nicole LePera?

  100% I commend you for the courage and the ability to

• 1:07:04Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot.

• 1:07:04Dr. Nicole LePera?

  action into that honesty. And again, at the core, kind of wrapping this even all together, we do fear if I show you fully who I am, if I show you my thoughts, my beliefs, my values, if I share with you aspects of my past and the choices or whatever it is, we have a fear that it will result in abandonment. Will you love me still? Will you remain safely connected to me still if you knew this? And so many of us for so long have had and lived experiences where that wasn't the case.

• 1:07:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Dr. Nicole LePera?

  When we shared something in childhood, having, you know, the unavailability of our caregiver, having at worst like an emotional reaction where we're feeling shamed or invalidated as a result of it, before long, that is a message that this aspect of me wasn't safe here. I didn't actually remain connected to this caregiver. There was a break in our relationship. So the more often that happens, the more I've now validated that it actually wasn't safe. And I've never given myself the opportunity to like you've gifted yourself with of that moment of truth, of navigating how it lands for someone. And we've created right an expectation of what we imagine will happen. And it's not always accurate or true.

• 1:08:19Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And even if someone does have a reaction to a truth, because I'd be lying if I say some difficult communications, you know, might elicit a most some version of a reaction from this other person, especially because they came into this relationship with their own story.

• 1:08:34Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:34Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Their own meanings, their own past and inner child that might be reacting to what they're hearing.

• 1:08:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:40Dr. Nicole LePera?

  The most important moment, in my opinion, is maybe not that moment of dysregulation or reaction, which might be human in our partners or loved ones. It's what happens next. Does that person come back to repair, to discuss, to reconnect? Because we can't help our humanity.

• 1:08:57Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:08:58Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Hearing something that's out of our expectation or that's difficult to navigate, you know, or brings up something in our own past experience might elicit. A reaction, though, what then happens on the other side? Can you come back, reconnect, reestablish that connection? Because for so many of us, that's where the real healing is, right?

• 1:09:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Dr. Nicole LePera?

  We had a disconnect and now we can find our way back together.

• 1:09:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I think taking responsibility for our reactions, right? Or our emotions and saying, okay, I shouldn't have reacted in a hurtful way. You know, or screaming at you or something. It's like, okay, take responsibility for that and moving forward.

• 1:09:35Dr. Nicole LePera?

  You're picking up a piece, though, too, of communication, right? Of sharing those moments of, you know, I had this emotional reaction. If you do have the awareness of what contributed to it, like, we do all carry, as we've been talking about, the past and our journeys with us, embodied in ourselves. And the more awareness we have, that's a gift to our partner, right? There's still many moments where I react from that inner child wounding, where I'm dysregulated. Now, over time, my partners have accumulated enough of my story that they might be able to understand my reaction a bit more in real time. So even if it's unsavory and they prefer me not to be

• 1:10:12Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:10:12Dr. Nicole LePera?

  doing what I'm doing, right? And again, doesn't make any abuse or, you know, overstepping our boundaries okay, though it could allow an understanding in those moments.

• 1:10:22Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:10:22Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Instead of then reacting from the fact that I said something really mean, if I'm being perfectly honest with someone that I love, they might be able to keep themselves safely stabilized, pulling back and understanding that I didn't truly mean that. There was a wound that was speaking and reaction and having come back enough time with my tail between my legs on the other side of it, right?

• 1:10:42Lewis Howes?

  Responsibility, yeah.

• 1:10:43Dr. Nicole LePera?

  We've developed now this, this pattern and this awareness. And all of this happens, again, in communication. So the more we know, again, about ourselves and can share with our partners where some of these past reactions are coming from, while, again, it doesn't condone or okay anything that's abusive, it might make space for a more compassionate tending to

• 1:11:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:11:04Dr. Nicole LePera?

  of those moments, which still might mean taking space from each other until that party is, or me, become regulated again. But we can do so in a way that doesn't have to feel so personal.

• 1:11:14Lewis Howes?

  Sure, and I think that's what you were talking about. The repair mode is so vital to a relationship. If someone reacts from that wound, let's say, it comes out, and then they don't repair that moment or that experience, and they just... Dumping on someone and not say, hey, listen, that was a that was a reaction that was from the space. Thank you for not reacting and allowing me to have it. Here's my commitment moving forward. I'm processing. I'm growing. I think when we don't repair, that starts to hurt even more. Feel resentment, right? And one of the things that I was gonna say, it came back to me now, is about. I had gotten to a place where.

• 1:11:50Lewis Howes?

  I was just like, okay, I'd rather be fully honest and be alone. Than be have to scurry around the truth or my truth and be with someone. So I was like, I'm gonna be fully honest in this relationship about everything. And if you can't receive it, then it's probably a good thing that we're not together. Because I don't want to have to put my false self forward to try to be an image that you like. I want to put my real authentic self forward. And be true to myself so I can fully accept who I am and where I'm going. Knowing I'm on a journey and it's gonna constantly progress, but. I think a lot of us. Want to be in a relationship so badly that we won't allow ourselves to love ourselves alone.

• 1:12:34Lewis Howes?

  We need to find someone. And I think I just finally got to the point where I was like, I'm happy to be alone for years if I need to be. If it's gonna create peace and love inside of me as opposed to having to walk on eggshells. With someone trying to accept me, so. Relationships are tricky. Relationships are tricky for a lot of people, I think, and we're all on our own journey. I was telling Martha, I was like, if I would have gotten married 10 years ago, I for sure would have been divorced. Because I didn't have the tools. I didn't know myself enough. I didn't know how to regulate my emotions. I didn't know how to calm myself in times of stress. I just don't know. I commend people who last a decade in relationships, especially when they get married in their twenties or early thirties. It's like. I feel like I made a lot of mistakes in relationships without getting married,

• 1:13:19Lewis Howes?

  which allowed me to learn. You know, I don't know, it's hard for a lot of people.

• 1:13:24Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I find any choice we make, and especially in relationships, is, you know, feedback, like you're saying. Those of us who have had unsuccessful relationships, or relationships that we haven't stayed in, right, all of that is information for us to use to integrate, to move forward. And back to what you were talking about in terms of being alone, all this ties back to the nervous system, our ability to feel safe, like I was sharing earlier, in stillness. For me, that extended to aloneness. Like I shared, I spent very little time physically alone, or alone with my own self, my own thoughts. And all of that is grounded not only in nervous system safety. To be able to kind of be alone means I'm safe in my body when I'm alone. I'm not relying on someone else to meet my need. And now they're not here, so my needs are going unmet, right?

• 1:14:09Dr. Nicole LePera?

  This means that I'm self-sufficiently, like, okay enough in that moment in absence to someone. And our nervous system, like, ability and theme throughout this whole conversation is grounded in our first early relationships. So, very interestingly, the ability to be alone, if I'm really simplifying it, really is a function of our early and the safety and the security of those relationships. And the large majority of us who didn't have safe, secure, attuned caregivers, we do become adults who don't spend, can't spend, are afraid of time alone. We then seek relationship as validation, right? Because we have some idea that not only can I not be alone, it's scary to be alone, it means something about me. It means I'm unlovable, just like I imagined. So if I just keep myself in a string of relationships,

• 1:14:53Dr. Nicole LePera?

  doesn't matter who's necessarily on the other side of it, as long as I'm relating to someone, maybe even relying on them to meet my needs, how all this ties together, I feel good enough. Though, in the reality, I don't. Because chances are, again, I'm relying on someone else to meet my needs. I have this core wound, I'm adapting. I'm probably not being my true self, because I'm just finding the next relationship to be a part of, to validate this belief.

• 1:15:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I want people to get the new workbook, How to Meet Yourself, the Workbook for Self-Discovery. I think it all comes back to understanding and having awareness of who we are, what we've been through, our challenges, our past, and seeing how can we heal the nervous system with that awareness. And I know this workbook is going to transform a lot of lives, just like how to do the work has done for the last year and a half. So make sure you guys go to theholisticpsychologist.com. Also follow you on Instagram. Your Instagram just continues to explode. It's so inspiring, the content you guys create. It's amazing. I'm always sharing it with Martha. And we're like, yes, this is so true. It's amazing. The Holistic Psychologist, if you type that in on Instagram or Facebook,

• 1:16:01Lewis Howes?

  you'll find it. It'll pop up. How else can we be of service to you? You've got your podcast, your YouTube channel. What else can we do to serve you besides getting the workbook and the original, How to Do the Workbook?

• 1:16:13Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I think service to me, and I will always answer some version of the same, is doing the work, right? Is really kind of creating the change, whoever you are, wherever you are in your own world. And it can be even outside of purchasing. I'm very passionate of making sure that the large majority of the content I put out each and every day is for free. It's a resource, a tool, because you serve me by serving yourself, because ultimately you're serving the collective of which I'm a part of. So I'm getting chills even hearing myself say this because I truly believe this is how the world changes, is as we begin to show up differently in our world. So it doesn't matter if whoever's world you are listening, if you're on the other side, literally, of the world and you don't purchase anything that I offer, you know, just hearing some of these ideas,

• 1:16:58Dr. Nicole LePera?

  allowing these seeds to possibly be what grows into creating change in your own world is everything to me. It's why I do the work. And ultimately, it's serving all of us that I believe we are all joined together in a collective.

• 1:17:12Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. Well, I want to acknowledge you Nicole for the constant growth you have had over the last couple of years. When you walked in, I was like, you just look different. You know, your energy, you look healthy. Not that you weren't healthy before, but you look like you continue to evolve and this light is radiating from you. So I acknowledge you for consistently creating the work for us, but hopefully also doing the work for yourself and not just creating and doing, but also being, which sounds like you're doing more of being, that is. So I acknowledge you. I hope you feel seen and considered. I know those are something important for you and I hope you feel seen and considered by your community, your close friends, you know, by

• 1:17:50Lewis Howes?

  me. I hope you feel supported and elevated. And I'm so grateful for the way you show up in creating work for us to understand, to help us heal and improve. So I really appreciate you. I acknowledge you. I want people to get the book, the workbook. Check you out on social media. I've asked you this question before a couple of times, so I won't ask you to hear, but if you guys want to hear Nicole's three truths and definition of greatness, we'll link up the previous interview we did there. But is there one thing that you could say to yourself before you put your first post out online? If you could go back to that day, before you

• 1:18:31Lewis Howes?

  did your first Instagram post on this type of content, maybe you were posting personal stuff, but this type of work, if you go back and see yourself, I don't know when that was, four, five, six years ago, if you could see yourself in front of you and say one thing that you're proud of to her, and one thing that she needs to look out for, what would you say?

• 1:18:54Dr. Nicole LePera?

  I love that. First, I want to send my appreciation. I'm so, so grateful for you, Louis, having, literally three years ago, and I just created that Instagram account. Having that experience of you truly seeing

• 1:19:06Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:19:07Dr. Nicole LePera?

  what I was about, what my intention and my mission was. And so generously and graciously inviting me on really has meant everything. And an honor, and what I do promise to my whole community is they are here to continue to witness my evolution as a human. And I don't doubt that you will continue to probably hear differences, tweaks, changes in my ideas and the way I'm showing up in the world. And that is, in my opinion, my service ultimately to the community. So speaking to that past self, some over three years ago now, when I put up that first post, I would first share my pride that I still feel for overcoming what for me was a lot of fear and uncertainty of how it would be to not only present myself as a human behind the title of psychologist, which for decades of schooling I was taught was

• 1:19:52Dr. Nicole LePera?

  a fatal thing to do. And more and more over time, I was being affirmed that individuals want to hear it from individuals. I have a story, I have a journey, I'm healing myself. It's okay to share my own story. And having seen all of the different ways I've watered down my truth in all of my relationships, outside of even professionally, for me, I will cite that action of creating that post and this, even the Instagram account, as an action for myself in my own healing. So I will commend that person and also share that they're safe. Because something I do know was the case back then is I did have a lot of fear. I did self censor, I did water down certain ideas in fear of how they would be received.

• 1:20:37Dr. Nicole LePera?

  And I've continued to watch myself over now the three years between that interim of continuing to gain more and more confidence of speaking what my thoughts are, what my ideas are, sharing my story more directly and understanding that there will be reactions of all different kinds from people and caring less about what the reactions might mean about me and really focusing on, because all of this was gaining confidence, learning how to speak truth allows me to feel freer, feel safer, inspires other people to speak truth around me. One of the most empowering things is being in the community, especially in the self healer circle and, you know, hearing from other people, sharing their own journeys and feeling feeling less alone.

• 1:21:20Lewis Howes?

  It's beautiful.

• 1:21:21Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Ultimately, it's keep going, I guess would be the morale

• 1:21:25Lewis Howes?

  I like it.

• 1:21:26Dr. Nicole LePera?

  cry for that old self.

• 1:21:27Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Nicole, thanks so much. Appreciate you coming on.

• 1:21:30Dr. Nicole LePera?

  Thank you so much, Lois, as always.

• 1:21:32Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:22:14Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.