Why You NEED to be Selfish to WIN w/Tim Grover EP 1112

“Winning requires you to be selfish.”Today's guest is Tim Grover, best known for his training with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and thousands of athletes and business professionals. He is the CEO and founder of Attack Athletics, Inc., and author of the international bestseller “Relentless: From Good to Great to Unstoppable” and his new book, “Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness.” He appears around the world as a keynote speaker and consultant to business leaders, athletes, and the highest achievers in every field. This is actually part 2 of Lewis and Tim's full interview, so make sure to check out part 1 where they talked about the three greatest lessons Tim learned from Michael Jordan, the reason Kobe Bryant was Tim’s most demanding client, how to create balance in your life the right way, and so much more! Check it out at: www.lewishowes.com/1111But In this episode Lewis and Tim discuss what happens when you acknowledge your self-doubts, the three biggest lessons Tim learned from Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade, how to change your life by adopting a winning mindset, why you need to rethink your idea of selfishness, the importance of managing your focus instead of your time, and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1112Read Tim’s new book: Winning: The Unforgiving Race to GreatnessThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,112 with Tim Grover. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:27Lewis Howes?

  J.W. Lin once said, "You are so much stronger than you realize. Don't let anyone tell you that you're not, not even you." And Tim Fargo said, "Who you are tomorrow begins with what you do today." My guest today is Tim Grover, best known for his training with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and thousands of athletes and business professionals. He's the CEO and founder of Attack Athletics, Inc., and author of the international bestseller, Relentless: From Good to Great to Unstoppable. And his new book will inspire you. It's called Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness. He appears around the world as a keynote speaker and consults to business leaders, athletes, and the highest achievers in every field.

• 1:09Lewis Howes?

  This is part two of our interview, so make sure to check out part one, where we talked about the three greatest lessons Tim learned from Michael Jordan, the reason Kobe Bryant was Tim's most demanding client, how to create balance in your life the right way, and so much more. It's the previous episode right before this one. But in this episode, we discuss what happens when you acknowledge your self-doubts out loud, the three biggest lessons Tim learned from Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade, how to change your life by adopting a winning mindset, why you need to rethink your idea of selfishness, the importance of managing your focus instead of your time, and so much more. Again, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired by this message as well, that would help uplift them and continue

• 1:53Lewis Howes?

  to support them with their dreams and goals. And subscribe to the School of Greatness on Apple Podcasts or Spotify if this is your first time here. Or if you haven't yet subscribed, click that subscribe button right now. And in just a moment, I'm going to bring you the one and only Tim Grover.

• 2:11Lewis Howes?

  Kobe loved team handball. We talked about it before our interview.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:15Lewis Howes?

  Because I mentioned to him, my time with him was, you know, something I'll always remember. And I only had an hour and a half with the guy. You spent years with him. But before we did the interview, I was just like, hey, I really want to acknowledge you. This wasn't on film, but I was like, I want to acknowledge you for all the Olympians that I know, friends of mine, they all say how amazing you were during the Olympics, how you'd show up and take photos with everyone. You were so generous, you're kind, and you would show up at the events and watch people and support all these athletes.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  So many other events, so many.

• 2:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  And here's the thing, USA Basketball, they don't stay.

• 2:50Lewis Howes?

  At the Village.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  The Village. We were like way, way out. And he would like say, hey, listen, I want to go see someone. We literally had the schedule. This is what we're going to go see. This is what we want to do. And he was at every single one of those events, every single one of those events.

• 3:04Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy. And I mentioned I played with the USA Handball team, and he goes, no way. He goes, I played handball growing up in Italy. I loved team handball. And so we were able to connect on that level, but he was, he would, it's amazing to see what he's been able to create from that. And you spent so much time with him. What was, what was that like when he was doubting himself? What was that like when you would see him doubt himself? He maybe never talked about it, but how did he overcome the doubt?

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Well, the one thing that you have to do when you have the doubt is you got to talk about it. You got to admit, you got to admit it's there.

• 3:42Lewis Howes?

  Speak it.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Speak it. You got to admit, you got to admit it's there. And you have to, you either got to speak it to yourself or speak it to an individual that's not going to judge you for it, that isn't going to think you're weak, that isn't going to think that, hey, why is this person doubting?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  So here's a story. Championship number, one, two, three, championship number four. So we had just lost, I would say we, but you know, they had just lost to the Boston Celtics in game six. What is this, 2008 or something? 2007, yeah, 2007, 2008, one of those, one of those years. So after the game, he sits down and he has, you know, he has dinner with the coaches so they can go over the thing and they talk about his different, uh, then afterwards he'll socialize a little bit with his teammates to go over the game plan. And then after everything is done, he'll send me, would send me a text and I'd sit down and he was sitting there with me. And this is a great- After they lost? This is after they lost. The playoffs?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  They didn't lose the playoffs, they lost the game. They lost game six and they were going into, they were going into, they were going into game seven. Got it. All right. And they had a chance to, if they would have won game six, they would have won the championship. It would, it would have been over. So he's sitting there and he's, he looks at me and we start talking, he goes, man, I threw everything at him but the kitchen sink. And I just looked at him, I said, why are you holding on to the sink? Right.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  I said, why are you holding on to the sink?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  I said, are you doubting, did you doubt yourself for the moment? I said, did you save that sink for game seven? I said, if you were throwing the game in game six,

• 5:28Speaker 01

  what are you saving it for? And then we literally had a discussion about that moment of doubt.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  That, which was very rare to him, but it was a, the Lakers Celtic rivalry. Wow. You know, it was going to, it was his first chance to win a championship without Shaq. So, you know, you hear all this stuff and no matter how many times you've won over and over again, all right, winning has no loyalty. It doesn't recognize, it recognizes you briefly and then it turns its head and starts looking for the other individual. So, and remember, this was-

• 6:09Speaker 01

  It was seven years now where he had won his la- the last championship.

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Yes, between championship.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  Three.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Between championship three, it was seven years.

• 6:19Lewis Howes?

  It's a big drought for Kobe.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Right, and now, how many people in that time would really start doubting, are you ever going to get there, are you gonna ever get there?

• 6:30Lewis Howes?

  Does he have it anymore, can he do it, do they have the tools?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yes, and every athlete tells you this, oh, I don't pay attention to the media.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  Oh, they read everything, they read everything, they watch every interview, and they hold on to that.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, they do, yes, they do. Every single, so, you know, after all those years, and, you know, do you start to, you start, you're human, you start to think, man, maybe they're right.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  Maybe I'm getting older, maybe.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, so now, hey, listen, everything that everybody else has been saying, everything that you've been holding inside, let's talk about this now.

• 7:07Lewis Howes?

  So what did he say after the sink part?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  He just gave me that Mamba glare, first of all, you know, that Mamba look, cuz he knew I touched.

• 7:14Lewis Howes?

  You hit a button.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  I, yeah, I, I, I touched a button that very few were afraid, that didn't want, that didn't want, that didn't want to touch. And he didn't, he didn't make any excuses, he, he, he didn't make any excuses, a- a- and I just said, look how close we are.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  I said, look how cool, look how close we are. I said, we're one victory away.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  After seven years.

• 7:41Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  I said, after seven years, I said, did you ever doubt that you'd get here again? He said, absolutely not. I said, while we're here, let's not doubt that you're gonna finish the job. Let's finish, finish, I said, I can't finish a job for you. I cannot finish a job for you. I said, nobody that you met with at this table can finish a job for you. I said, if you're doubting that you can't finish the job, then I'll go home tonight.

• 8:12Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  I'll go home tonight. And Michael was a complete opposite. Michael would, in that aspect, it was just like, we would, so, back then, the series were a little bit different. They changed the format. It was two, three, two. Alright, so you played two games at home, three games on the road, and then two, because they wanted to minimize, minimize, minimize the travel.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  So, Michael would tell,

• 8:45Speaker 01

  you would be going into game six. If you won game six on the road, you were done. You won the championship. So, Michael would literally tell all the team and the staff, pack one suit.

• 8:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Pack for one day.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  He goes, don't pack for two. Pack for one.

• 9:02Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:04Lewis Howes?

  He talked about it in The Last Dance, I think, as well, yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Six championships, never needed a game seven.

• 9:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:11Speaker 01

  They never needed a game seven.

• 9:13Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Alright.

• 9:16Lewis Howes?

  Or we got no clothes.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, otherwise every-

• 9:19Lewis Howes?

  We're naked.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  We're gonna, or you go, everybody's gonna say, "The hell are these people, what the hell are these people doing?"

• 9:25Lewis Howes?

  And then you humiliate yourself, because you didn't go all out.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Exactly. And for a moment, we, listen, how many times in our lives have you really gone all in on something?

• 9:36Lewis Howes?

  Very few.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  And then when you do go, look at the results.

• 9:43Lewis Howes?

  Pretty undeniable, yeah.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Look at the results.

• 9:46Lewis Howes?

  So, what do you, do you think when we have these moments of doubt, we, you're saying we should speak about it? And that day, Kobe was speaking about it with you.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Speak it to somebody who's not gonna judge you, who understands, who's not just gonna give you the answer, "It's okay, everything's gonna be fine. There's another day, there's another game."

• 10:03Lewis Howes?

  What does that do for us by speaking the self-doubt?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Acknowledging it.

• 10:08Lewis Howes?

  And what does that do?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Well, when you, when you acknowledge it, it's just like anybody, what do they say, what's the first thing? Doubt can become an addiction. Just like anything, just like anything else.

• 10:20Lewis Howes?

  Just like winning.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yes. So, what do people say the first thing when you become an addict?

• 10:28Speaker 01

  You gotta talk about it.

• 10:29Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  You gotta admit it.

• 10:32Lewis Howes?

  Speak the poison out of your body. Yes. Like, get it out, talk about it, it becomes less scary, it doesn't have as much power over you if it's inside.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Get it, get it, get it out. What do you, because what I might think you're doubting may be completely different than something that you're doubting. Why? I may see something and you're like, "No, that, that, that's, that's, that's not it." Well, okay, let's, let's, let's talk about it, let's talk about this a little more. Explain to me, explain to me what, what's going on here. What, what created that doubt? What, what created that doubt? And we know after seven years, those, it had finally gotten to the point where it was just like, and no one talked to him, because he, you know, Kobe wasn't gonna talk to anybody about it, you never, he's never gonna talk to the media about it.

• 11:16Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Has to talk to some individual that's like, "Hey, okay, listen, I understand. I'm as, I'm, I'm as obsessed and as crazy as you are, because that's why you hired me."

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Why? That's why you hired me. I understand the winning mentality. I understand what, what's going, what's going on in, what's going on in under here. I understand the skeletons, I understand the demons. I, I get, I get, I get those things. Mine aren't the same as yours, but I have them. We all have them, and very few can omit them. So when you start omitting doubt, and you start to be able to talk about it, you take something that you've tried to bury in your closet that needs to be addressed, but you're trying to hide it, you're trying to bury it, you're trying to put it away. And winning requires you to show up with all of you.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  It wants to show up the good, the bad, the fearful, the doubt, the anxiety, the ups, the downs. It needs to see all of you.

• 12:15Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Otherwise, it's never gonna acknowledge you. It's not gonna acknowledge you. And you can't win with just one thing. You have to win with all of you.

• 12:25Lewis Howes?

  All of it.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  All of it.

• 12:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What was the greatest, three greatest lessons that Kobe taught you? We heard, uh, competing, accountability, and winning at all levels. For Michael, what about Kobe? The three, three big lessons he taught you?

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Obsession.

• 12:44Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Extremely high threshold for physical and mental pain. Discomfort.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  And also, winning. They all had that in common.

• 13:06Lewis Howes?

  The winning mindset, the winning mentality?

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yes, what he called it, the Mamba mentality.

• 13:11Lewis Howes?

  What is, what is the mindset of winning? They both had that. Obviously, they both had a lot of things. But what is the mindset of winning? When someone adopts that mentality, what does that do for them? As opposed to the mindset of, well, whatever result I get is fine, or it's okay if I have this, and I'm okay with that.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  So I look at it, I look at it three ways. So you have individuals that compete. You know, a lot of people that compete.

• 13:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  You know, every, we all know how to compete. Everybody knows how to, how to compete. You don't forget how to compete. We just decide not to anymore. But a lot of people compete just to finish.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  They compete just to finish.

• 13:56Lewis Howes?

  Just to compete, just for the act of doing it.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Just the act of, now, I always say, if you finishing that, whatever you're competing in, allows you to win at something else, allows you say, hey, listen, I just broke through a barrier.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or if that's a win, like for me, I'm gonna be running in a marathon later this year, and I am not a distance runner. I'm doing it to overcome the challenge of long distance running.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  That's your win.

• 14:18Lewis Howes?

  But I'm not gonna win the marathon. I'm not trying to.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Right, alright, you, you're go, but your win is to finish.

• 14:24Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Alright, but so a lot of people's win, there is, it's not to finish, it's just, I'm just gonna finish, finish without a purpose. Then there's individuals that win. But they only win one time.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. The hardest thing is doing it over and over. It's, it's easy, it's not easy to win.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:41Lewis Howes?

  But it's easy to, it's, it's, it's easy to win and then never win again. I mean, it's so hard to do it over and over consistently.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  And then there's people that win at winning.

• 14:52Lewis Howes?

  They win at winning.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:54Lewis Howes?

  That is an art and a science probably combined.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yes, because here's how it goes. You can't come back the same.

• 15:03Lewis Howes?

  Once you win, you can't come back?

• 15:04Speaker 01

  You cannot come back the same. You have to come back different. You have to come back better. This is why I always says, listen, winning requires you to be different and different scares people.

• 15:15Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  It scares people. So after each championship, every single athlete, high-performance athlete that I've worked with, even in business, would come up to me and say, "What's next? Because I need to feel this again."

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  "I need to feel this."

• 15:33Lewis Howes?

  The obsession.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yes, "I need to feel this again." So they know they have to come back. Something about them has to be better.

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  They have to change, continue to evolve and change.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  How many teams do you know in professional sports that they bring the exact same team back? I mean, exact same team that win again. They don't. There's always a little change. There's always a little tweak here, there's a change over here, there's something, there's something that goes on over here. And every athlete who's won multiple titles over and over again, or even in different business people, you look at, you just had Tony here. Look, he's won for decades.

• 16:12Lewis Howes?

  For decades, he's been doing this.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:16Lewis Howes?

  He's always reinventing, always finding new coaches, always mastering some skill, learning, evolving.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  It's just like, you just have to, just watch what these individuals do. Just wa, he's not still using the same format he used 20 years. Like you said, new coaches, new content, new things. New, new everything. And it's available to us, but people like, "Oh, we did it once and we can do it the exact same way again." You can't. You can't. You had, there's people that win at winning. And this is how, this is extremely important on how, on how they do this. You said, "Well, how, you know, how you make sure you just don't go through this." We're all taught.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  To manage time. Everyone tells you how to manage time, you know. Make a list, this is what you're doing, here, here it is, you know, have a little timer when it goes on and all this other stuff. And one of the things that I've teach all my clients from a business standpoint, from an athletic standpoint, I was like, listen, don't manage time, manage focus.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, what does that look like?

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Manage focus. So what happens is when you try to, when you try to manage time, the clock is always against you. You're trying to finish off something a- and time goes by so quickly. When you're in that moment, when you're so focused, when you're so focused, you don't know if you've been at it for thirty minutes or you've been at it for an hour.

• 17:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or, or weeks.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Or weeks, you just go, you just go. Time creates distractions. Lily, time, if you're like managing time, you get all these distractions that are going there. What does focus do? It blocks them out.

• 18:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  So don't worry about managing time, manage your focus, be in that moment when you're in that moment and then you'll get so much more done during that time. All right, you know, time tells you to stop, all right, focus tells you, keep going. When you're focused, what do you do? You just keep going, you just keep going, you just keep going.

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  That's why I love creating scenarios and environments without the use of my phone. It's like if you're going to a workout, leave your phone somewhere else where you need to focus. It's why I love having a trainer. I'm doing boxing right now with a great trainer

• 18:39Lewis Howes?

  here in LA and when I'm with him for those two hours a week, it's like, time is gone because I'm just in the moment. I can't think about anything else in my life. I'm not on my phone because I got boxing gloves on, I'm like, there's pain, there's stress. It's like you've got to use every part of your mind and your body for that hour.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:57Lewis Howes?

  And time goes away because I'm just focused.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  And then you get individuals that go to a gym.

• 19:04Lewis Howes?

  And on their phone the whole time in between sets.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Or, or here's the thing, they want to, they're getting on a bicycle or they're getting on a step machine, whatever they get on, they spend more time playing with the music, all right, what music, I gotta find it, right, genre and so forth. So what do you do? You're just like. I gotta do this for twenty minutes, I gotta do this for twenty minutes, or I gotta do this for forty minutes. You're not focused.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  You're in your mind, you're literally managing time, you're thinking how long this is gonna go it. And you go in and you get that, you get that hour fifty, or hour fifty minutes, whatever it is, and it goes by.

• 19:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Like this.

• 19:39Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Cause you are so focused during that.

• 19:43Lewis Howes?

  If you're not focused, you're gonna hurt yourself.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  You're gonna.

• 19:45Lewis Howes?

  You're going to.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  And not get the.

• 19:46Lewis Howes?

  The result.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  And not get the result, exactly, and that's what people do, people settle for average, when all you're doing out there is managing time, you're just putting average stuff out there. And it goes, all the stuff in the chapters that come in, I have everything listed number one, cause they all tie in, they all tie in together. You know, managing fo- managing focus, set of time, ties into balance.

• 20:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  It ties into balance, and you know.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  This is about the unforgiving race, it, this is. Everybody comes in and they see the work that you're putting out now.

• 20:20Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm, they don't see eight years, a thousand plus episodes.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  And that's, that was your unforgiving race, and a lot of a part of it was unforgiving, you didn't come out the same, you came out different. And when you came out different, that difference scared a lot of people, and I'm sure during that journey, the peoples that were really close to you.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Are no longer.

• 20:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, they gotta accept you, they gotta learn to accept you.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  Um, otherwise, they're not gonna understand you, and you're, you're not gonna have the time that you once had with those people, and that's okay too.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  That's okay.

• 20:56Lewis Howes?

  You don't need to kick them out of your life necessarily, but you just may not be spending as much time with them if they're not understanding your mission, your intention, your focus. Uh, your own race.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  And now you get called selfish.

• 21:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  And you get called selfish, you get called selfish.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  It's, winning requires you to be selfish.

• 21:15Lewis Howes?

  You need to be.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Alright, what's wrong with taking care of self, I've never understood that, alright, what's, what's wrong, alright, so.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  You ask an individual to.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Hey, I meditate, not, not me, but I'm just saying, an individual says, I meditate from.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Three to three thirty.

• 21:39Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  And they'll be, oh, you know, that's really healthy for you, that's, that, that so forth. You're in a business a- atmosphere or somewhere, you say, hey, listen, no calls, leave me alone. I don't want to talk to anybody for the next thirty minutes. You're selfish.

• 21:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  We love to give these words for, all right, me time. What's the difference between selfish and me time?

• 22:02Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  You know, what, what's, what's, what's the difference? There is no, there is no difference, but when you're taking something away from another individual that they want your time, they want your energy, they want your focus, now all of a sudden, you're selfish when you say no.

• 22:21Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  All right? You work out every day, I work out every day.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Is that selfish?

• 22:30Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  To take care of ourselves?

• 22:33Speaker 01

  All right?

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Meditation, self-improvement, reading, all those things. You do those things alone, listening to podcasts, whatever.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  That's time to self.

• 22:47Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Why aren't people, why don't people consider those selfish?

• 22:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:56Lewis Howes?

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• 23:41Lewis Howes?

  Seed's DS01 Daily Symbiotic combines twenty-four clinically and scientifically

• 23:46Lewis Howes?

  studied probiotic strains not found in yogurt most supplements or fermented foods and beverages with non fermenting prebiotic compounds concentrated from Indian pomegranate start a new healthy habit today visit seed.com slash greatness and use code greatness to redeem 20% off your first month of seeds daily symbiotic that's seed.com slash greatness and use code greatness how did you create time for yourself when you were training these top athletes you know Michael Jordan Kobe and Dwayne are the you know three probably most successful I'm assuming that you've you've trained the biggest champions

• 24:27Speaker 01

  yes well I've you know I've been fortunate enough you know Akim Olajuwon is also a client of mine if you're basketball Charles Barkley has been a client of mine Tracy McGrady has been a client of I've had

• 24:36Lewis Howes?

  Charles needs you back as a trainer

• 24:38Speaker 01

  yeah yeah so the one thing about Charles is in one of my introduction videos he always just says I've lost 30 pounds and he repeats it over and over again because he's lost those same 30 pounds over and over again but um you just

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  how did you find me time when the greatest athletes are so demanding of your time how were you able to do that you know while training them

• 25:05Speaker 01

  well you may have to cut down your me time all right but you know there were certain times that I didn't have to travel like if it would like if it was a if they were traveling only for a night and coming back I didn't take those I didn't take those trips so that allowed me to do what I wanted to do but you know there would be times when when I never worked for the organization I always worked directly for the player

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  did you travel with the team

• 25:32Speaker 01

  I did not travel with the team

• 25:33Lewis Howes?

  they paid you to separate to go travel on your own

• 25:35Speaker 01

  the individuals the client yeah so this you know so people always talk about they get so surprised when an athlete invests seven figures and I was like

• 25:45Lewis Howes?

  they need to

• 25:48Lewis Howes?

  They need to.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  And people like, man, that's, I, I hear this, but that's so selfish of them.

• 25:53Lewis Howes?

  It's how they win. I, you know, I was, I don't know if you know Novak Djokovic.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Yes, I don't know him.

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  Kobe was close friends with, they were buddies.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:02Lewis Howes?

  I talked about it with Kobe that I knew him and he goes, that's my guy. I love Novak. I went to go watch Novak right before the pandemic.

• 26:11Lewis Howes?

  Here in Indian Wells and I went to go watch a match. Afterwards, we hung out with him. He had a traveling gym, a pod. It was like an RV, a couple RVs that had, it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. It had like float tank and sauna and ice bath and meditation. All these things in there, trainers with him. It was like, this is how I stay successful. I don't do it by just going to bed at night. I gotta stretch at night. I gotta do all the things to wind down, prepare myself for the next match tomorrow. And this is why, by investing. I won't say how much he invested in that, but it was like, he's putting a lot of money on his health, on his mindset, on his trainers, and it's why he's number one.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  And like you said, not only is he successful, like you said, he's won, he's winning over and over, over again.

• 27:00Lewis Howes?

  Over and again.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Over again. And that's what it takes to, and people could be like, oh, that's, that's selfish. No, it's not selfish. It's selfish not to. All right. So I always look at it this way.

• 27:12Lewis Howes?

  Cause if you're not obsessed, what are you?

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:15Lewis Howes?

  If you're not gonna be obsessed about it, what are you doing?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  So here's the thing, all right? People would call, I look at what you do. It would be selfish of you not to do it.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  Right. Not to serve the world at the highest level, not to be able to get this information and help people and be selfish.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Exactly. So if you don't take care of self.

• 27:40Lewis Howes?

  If I'm not prepared and ready to go to these interviews, we're not gonna get the best information. We're not gonna help people.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  That's how I look at, so when I see a person who's like not at the top of their game, or you know, a CEO or a business person that's not functioning well, first thing like, all right, maybe you need to be a little bit more self, because I, not only do I need you, there's. So many other people that are relying on you to be selfish. So you can produce at the highest level.

• 28:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. If I'm not selfish, we can't pay the team, we can't bring on more people and employ people, all these things, yeah.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Why is it such a bad, why is it such a bad, why is it such a bad word?

• 28:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Why do people look at, winning requires you to be selfish in all forms of life. If your goal is to say, I'm going to be the best parent, I'm going to raise these kids, I'm going to do, I'm going to do this. The way it is, you know, if you want to talk about Tiger Woods's parents.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  If those parents weren't selfish with Tiger's time, what would the world miss out on? People that didn't even know golf.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Watch golf.

• 28:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  It's selfish for you not to be at your best. It's selfish for you not to share your information. It's selfish for you not to be the most talented individual that you could possibly be. It's selfish for you not to share that talent with other individuals.

• 29:12Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 29:14Lewis Howes?

  Side note, did you ever score a point against Kobe?

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Yes. I did.

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 29:21Speaker 01

  I did.

• 29:22Lewis Howes?

  What was that, how many times? Few times? Is this when you're scoring, you're just shooting threes and they're not blocking it? Is that essentially, or did you drive and you make a move and you're?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  So.

• 29:32Lewis Howes?

  Pivoting and shopping?

• 29:35Speaker 01

  So.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Kobe was coming off an ankle injury. I listen, I take my, I take my, listen.

• 29:43Lewis Howes?

  One guy can't walk, another one can't move, yeah.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Hey, I take my, I take my, I take it when I, listen, I've scored in every NBA arena.

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. You mean, you've, you've made it out of your.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  I made a basket, yeah. When nobody's around, I take the ball, I've scored in every, in every NBA, in every NBA arena. I've never scored in an NBA game, but I've scored in every NBA arena, I've scored in every, every NBA arena. So, you know, Kobe, I was like, hey man, you know, just kind of just, I could see him limping around and we're out there shooting on the bat, shooting on the court a little bit and he's playing this fake defense and I kind of just go around him, I'm like, yes! I got no video to.

• 30:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh, no.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Because, listen.

• 30:22Lewis Howes?

  No one's filming that, yeah.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  No one's filming that and back then, you know, first with Michael, there was no social media. And then with Kobe, it was extremely. Extremely private.

• 30:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, don't film this.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, in his early part of his career. Then towards the end, he became, he was a little bit more open to sharing his family and, you know, and did different things where other than he was extremely, extremely private. How many times when you interviewed, did he tell you to turn the camera off?

• 30:47Lewis Howes?

  Well, he didn't actually, which was fascinating. I felt like, um,

• 30:52Lewis Howes?

  because I asked him beforehand, his whole team, I, I don't know, I feel like what I created with Kobe was a magical moment of this, you know, hour experience with him. And because beforehand, his whole team was prepping me, we booked it the night before. They wanted to do the interview like a month out. And I was like, if we don't do this tomorrow morning, this isn't happening.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:11Lewis Howes?

  Because I already know he's going to be busy.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:13Lewis Howes?

  So they reached out. And I was like, we need to book this in the morning, first thing, or whenever tomorrow, I'll do it anytime tomorrow. But if we do it a week out, it's not going to work.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  He's gonna, you know, it's gonna fall through. So I had my moment, like the chance, just like you and his ankle is broken, right? And the team was there, this is crazy, I got there, I think around

• 31:35Lewis Howes?

  six thirty, the interview was at eight. And I'm the first one there, turn on the light, the assistant opens the door, lets me in, we turn on the lights, we go find a place where I'm going to go film, we go walk through, I don't know if you ever went to his office.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  The Kobe Inc., yeah.

• 31:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we walked through, there's a, there's a big opening first, and then there's like these glass windows that go into another room. And I walked down there to look at the other room, didn't like this setup anywhere, so walked back. It's six thirty AM, walked back. On the last, uh, office on the left in the glass windows, I see a, the lights are off and I see a shadow in the back, and for a second I'm like, oh, that's Kobe back there. It's six thirty AM. And we walked past it, and I talked to the assistant, I go, is that Kobe? And he goes, she goes, yeah, he's been here for over an hour.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:26Lewis Howes?

  He was up at four training with his daughter.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:29Lewis Howes?

  And he's the first one here.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:30Lewis Howes?

  And I go, this guy just won an Oscar, he's like, no reason to be here at six thirty. And he's not even on his phone or on his computer. He was just like dreaming or visualizing or something was happening. Like he was just looking up at the ceiling like this. And I was like, this guy's a freak, you know, as a machine. And we set up and we set up closer there, but he couldn't see where we were setting up. But he must have known that people were there. And so I'm there for an hour and a half thinking, is he going to come out? Is something going to happen? People are starting to come in now. It's getting closer to eight. The lights turn on in his office, probably 7:50. And someone goes in and has a conversation, but I don't see him until three

• 33:13Lewis Howes?

  minutes before eight. Now, his team is prepping me. Everyone's there now. And they gave me a list of all these things I cannot ask him. And I was like, cool, no problem. And I know I had three minutes until we start because he had a hard out until, I think it was Lil Wayne. He was like there as well, setting up another production and do an interview. It was like back to back all day.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  I asked him these few questions before the interview, just to build a connection with him and tell him, you know, I played handball and Olympics and this and this. For whatever reason, I said the same thing I said to you before this interview. Is there anything off limits? And he said no. He said, I go, I've, I've got this whole sheet. Your team told me not to ask. Like, I understand I shouldn't go here, here, and here. Is there anything else off limits? He goes, ask me anything you want and take as long as you want. I was like, wow. So he gave me permission. Now, I didn't disrespect him and ask these things, but he was, he was, he was in the zone and so focused in that moment, which I was like, this is, this is cool, you know, to have him, someone at that level to show he cares that much for someone he'd never met. Now, later,

• 34:19Lewis Howes?

  I found out, Candace Parker I had on the show recently. And I said, hey, how did you hear about the show? Just curious. Like, how did you hear? She was a fan of the show. And she said, Kobe told me about it. I go, what? And she goes, yeah. I would always bug Kobe and say, what are you reading? What are you listening to to help like improve my mind? And she was like, oh, he mentioned your show that I should listen to it and watch it. And I was like, what? So we, you know, we were supposed to have another interview that happened. I was telling you this before we got on here. And then the time we were going to schedule it was when I had a big conference. So I was like, well, hopefully in the next few months. That conference was in September. And then in January, I guess, is when he passed, unfortunately. So I was always thinking I'd have many more times to interview him and sit down.

• 35:04Lewis Howes?

  But that time never happened. And I know that you spoke to him, I think, a week before. You talk about in your book. What was that conversation and that time like?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  So we would go back and forth, you know, we'd text each other from time to time to say, hey, you good? Yeah, I'm good. You good? No long conversations. What are you doing? He's always chasing the next win.

• 35:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. That was, that was. The movie, the TV, yeah.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  That was, that was his thing. And I said, he was busy, I was busy. We tried to get together. We're just like, hey, All-Star Game is in Chicago. So he was gonna, I live in Chicago. He was gonna be, he was gonna, he was gonna come down there for the event and some business, and some business stuff. And

• 35:44Speaker 01

  never happened.

• 35:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  And it never happened. And it was crazy.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  I know there's a lot of people out there and that are in this space that tell you, you have time. I always used to tell Kobe, I said, we don't have time. Every time, every time we would work out, every time we would prepare, every time we would do something, I would just be like, this, this is urgent. This, everything's urgency. We don't, we don't have, we don't have time. Man, I wish I was wrong. Boy, I wish I was wrong. Cause it, it, it, three days later, that's when it really affected me. I was sleeping, I was in the middle of the night. Cause you just would just think it just, this is not real. It's not real. And if you got a chance to meet him, you know, you got a chance to spend time.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  You got a chance to spend time with him. And you know what? I'll tell you, when they gave you that list, you know,

• 36:43Speaker 01

  it was a test with no right answers. That's what it was. It was a test with, with, with no, with no right answers. And you got the, you got, you, you took it to a, a level that very few people got a chance to, very few people got a chance to see. But he, he had this very innate.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Trust with people right away that he just, he just knew.

• 37:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I felt like he trusted, he was like, right away, it was like he was my best friend is what it felt like.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  There's, there's something, there's something at the butt.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  But if you lose that trust for a moment, he's like, never speak to you again.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Oh my, oh my goodness. I, I, oh my goodness, you know, just like, hey. Just like it takes a second to turn a champion, it takes one moment to turn a win into a loss, a champion into a loser. It's the same, he was the same way. He trusted you until you gave him a reason not to trust you.

• 37:40Lewis Howes?

  Did you ever lose his trust?

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Never.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Never.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  Did he ever doubt you at some point besides questioning, why are we doing this? Did he ever say, oh, I don't like the way you treating me here or said this?

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Never, never, not, not one moment. You know, I've had.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  There are stories out there and people always ask me about this. So I said, well, there's a reason they're not out there.

• 38:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  All right. You know, I was blessed and privileged to see parts of their lives and spend time with them that nobody, nobody, nobody's seen.

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  Behind the scenes.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, even, even behind those scenes.

• 38:18Lewis Howes?

  Just you and him.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Yes, you get a chance to experience things that very few people would ever get a chance to experience. And when somebody's that open with you, you know, and they're allowing you into a space that very, very few.

• 38:33Lewis Howes?

  See.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  Maybe his wife only.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they have enough trust in you to call you up at three o'clock in the morning or whatever it is to say, hey. You know, meet me so and so, I just need, need to sit down and have, have a, have a conversation. And the one thing I always tell all my clients, everything, business, schools, professionals, I don't judge.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  I don't judge. I need to know, my job is to help you create wins over and over and over again. Alright, that's my job, I'm not here, I'm not here to judge. Alright, and when you get across that point, I've written, this is a second, this is the second book I've written. And when I wrote the first one, there was no fear or doubt from any of them that I was gonna be, it was gonna be like a tell-all book.

• 39:28Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, no.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't do that.

• 39:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  I, I, I don't, I don't do that. You know, there's certain parts of each individual, yourself, myself, that we share with very few people. And there's a reason we share that with very few people.

• 39:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  And once that trust is broken, it's extremely, I don't think so it can be, it can't be mended.

• 39:48Lewis Howes?

  It might take years until you can build it again.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  It just, it just, you just, you just can't.

• 39:53Lewis Howes?

  How did that come about? Did, did Michael give you permission to work with Kobe? Did Kobe court you for years and say, when you're down with Michael, I wanna, I wanna have you train me?

• 40:02Speaker 01

  So I've never, you know, obviously Kobe and I had, we had, we knew of each other because we'd kind of pass back and forth and we'd see each other.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  He knew you were training Michael.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Yes, you know, and I would always, you know, every time I would approach, I'd say, listen, you know, through the years, I, Kobe, he had an individual he steady, steady was working with, and I just told him, I said, listen, if your trainer ever needs anything, or just have him, needs any information, I said, please have him reach out to me, or, or vice versa. So in 2007 Kobe reached out to Michael and said, listen, my knees are like, they are so bad, I don't know if I can play anymore. I don't, I don't, I don't know if I can play, I don't know if I can play anymore. And he said, listen, he goes, you have any suggestions, you have anything, he goes, listen, this is not my field, he goes, you know, I'm not using Grover anymore, you know, give, give him a shot.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  And so Kobe goes, well.

• 40:56Lewis Howes?

  How long were you not working with Michael since that point?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  It was, it, it was, it was a while, I mean, Michael was done in the, Michael was done in the early, late 90s, so it was.

• 41:09Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I was still working with other, other athletes, but not, no, I was still working with Dwayne, I was, I had started working with Dwayne during that, during that time. So then he said, hey, reach out, reach out to him, and he goes, well, he goes, well, I really, he goes, tell me about Grover. Best endorsement I ever got. So he goes, man, that guy really knows his stuff. But he's the biggest asshole you'll ever meet. Best compliment. And he was like, perfect, I need that. Yeah, he goes, that's, that's perfect. He said, what do you mean by that? He goes, he's not gonna take your bullshit. He's not gonna treat you like you're this superstar. He's gonna hold you accountable. When, when you don't do something right, he's gonna call you out on it.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  You know, and he goes, if you can't handle that, he goes, oh no, this is perfect for me. Yeah, he needed that. Yeah, he goes, this is, this is actually perfect for me because he had, like, you know, just like with the tennis player, Djokovic. There's a lot of people around. Mm-hmm. All right. And what I described earlier, how do you get back to that win? Sometimes you have to delete a lot of the stuff that's going around because now, now, it's not a cohesive team. Well, everybody, everybody's looking, everybody's saying, this is the way it should be done. This is how it do it, this is, and pieces start to fall in place. So I came in, I just said, listen.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  What's our goal? You know, everybody talks about these different, you know, they wanna put their thoughts and they wanna put everything on that. I said, and they, everyone makes this list, and I just put win at the top. Yeah. That's, that's what we're here. What's it called, win? That's all we're here for. Otherwise, yeah. That, that's what, that's what we're here for. Whatever it takes. I said, if he wins, we all win. Yeah. I said, if he loses, guess what? We all lose and we will not be here. Mm-hmm. We will not be here. So let's, everybody, let's figure this thing out together. Let's put the pieces in place, like, you should be talking to, I, the, because the team wasn't talking to each other. So I came in, I got everybody started, talked to each other. His, his personal team. Yeah, it's just like.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Not the, not the Lakers. Right. His personal team. They're not, they're not, they're not talking to each other. Alright, everybody's not, you know, I don't know what this person's doing, you don't know what this person's doing. I said, we need to get everybody on the same. After every treatment, every workout, everything that goes on, you should know what this person does, everybody, everybody should know. And this was before, you know, we weren't, I wasn't gonna require everybody to do a Google, you know, spreadsheet or a Google Doc, all that. I was like, listen, we need to every single day get together on a phone, get a thing and say, hey, this is what I did, this is what I did, this is what I did, so we know. And then when I started to work, started to work with him, you know, I looked at what was going on with his, with his knees and I had some ideas, I had some thoughts. I said, okay, this is what you've been planning, these are surgeries that you've had.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  I said, this is probably gonna take, I said, probably take about eight weeks to alleviate this pain. And I put a, I put a real,

• 44:16Speaker 01

  specific program for him to say, this is what we're going to do. I kinda described it in the book a little bit. And I said, this is what we're gonna do. And he started to feel better and started to feel the knees starting to come around. And he was able to play, play in, play in the Olympics in 2008 during that time. And just,

• 44:35Speaker 01

  took off some, kinda gave a Ferrari or Lamborghini the necessary tune-up it really needed. And the genuine parts that were necessary to get him playing again at the highest level. And, oh, he believed in me. But the one thing he always said was just like, when a reporter asked him, lady, he goes, hey, I heard you working out with a, with Michael Jordan's, uh, guy, Tim Grover. He goes, what do you think about him? He goes, he ain't done it for me yet. He goes, I don't know, he goes, he goes, you wanna, go ask Michael what he did for him. He hasn't done anything for me, which was the perfect answer. Which was the perfect answer because too many people, when we talked about

• 45:19Speaker 01

  the three things about winning, the people that compete, the people that win once and the people that win over and, and over again, you're only good as your last win. True. Alright, you're only as good as your, you're only as good as your last win, that's it. So it wasn't, it was important to me to say, hey, listen, yeah, what I did for Michael doesn't matter. Judge me by what I'm gonna, what I, what I, what I do, what I do for you. Alright, and you and I kinda similar in this, in this situation here.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  So when you got your first big interview, whoever that may be. I was like, well, oh, you can't do it again. Now you got your next one. Oh, you can't do it again. Now you got your next. Now, now you got your, now you got your next one. So people always, oh, you did it with Michael. Go do it with somebody else. All right. I'll go do it with Kobe. Oh, you did it with Kobe. Well, go do it with somebody else. All right. I go do it with Dwayne. Go do it with somebody. So it's just kind of like, all right, just to show you that this is, this is not, this is not a fluke. And it's not, again, not to prove them, right? It's to prove yourself that, yes, you know, you can, that you just didn't fall into this. That all the years that you were in this unforgiving race to win, all the stairs that you climbed,

• 46:39Speaker 01

  all the stairs that you missed, all the people that doubted you.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  You finally got to say, hey, the way Kobe describes winning, winning is everything.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Winning is everything. That's true. And what about Dwayne? What was the three big lessons from him? How long were you training Dwayne for? Oh, Dwayne. So the interesting story was there was some crossover between Kobe, Kobe and Dwayne. Where I would literally have to get, I was literally flying from Orange County. To Miami. To Miami. Oh, man. Cause I was, during the playoffs, I was taking care of ball. So it was. Oh, my gosh. That's intense. Yeah, that, that was, I had, I had more frequent flight miles during that, during that time. And all the flight attendants knew, knew who, who I was. Dwayne was hu, Dwayne was a hu, very quiet, huge family person.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Like his kids were like so, so important to him. Like, they were like very, very, very, very, very, very important. The time I, when I was dealing with him, he was going through an extremely bad divorce. And there was a custody battle that, that was going on. So to be able to, with Kobe, I mean, with Dwayne, one of the things that, that I really learned from him was resiliency. Wow.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Like you like with resilient, like how resilient he was with everything that was going on.

• 48:06Lewis Howes?

  Cause he had to, he had to be the leader of the team.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  Try to win, but also deal with a divorce, custody, kids, the emotions of it all. And then focus when it mattered. That's so hard to do.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  That is so, that is so hard to do. But you know what? The greatest individuals, they don't bring their personal stuff.

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  So hard to do.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  It's, it's not easy. It's not, it's not, it's not easy. But they, they, they just, they just don't, because you know why? The game gives them that, that, that square. It's an outlet and it's like, hey, you can't tou, you can't touch me, you can't touch me in that space.

• 48:43Lewis Howes?

  At least for those couple of hours.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  But then you gotta deal with everything else.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Yes. And, and that's whatever you have to deal with, it's still gonna, it's still gonna be there. Most people don't win because they let other distractions take them away from what's really, really, what's really, really important during that time. Those distractions are still gonna be there. It doesn't matter. We talk, you know, all these, you've talked to all these individuals that I've dealt with numerous of them. They're people. They have the same issues that you and I have. Right? They have relationship problems. Right?

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  They usually have more issues because they got the media, the attention, the drama, the gossip.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  That they have to, that they have to, that they have to deal with.

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  So is it a compartmentalization of, of distractions? Is it something else? Like, how do, how do the best do it?

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Those distractions actually elevate their play.

• 49:42Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. They actually, every single time, so every single, every single athlete I've ever worked with, every little CEO person, their distractions make them even more focused during that time.

• 49:54Lewis Howes?

  It's like the flu game with Jordan. It's like, you become locked in no matter what is happening.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  You looked, you look at the numbers with those individuals, when there's a distraction, when they're going through something personal or something, their numbers actually go up. Their productivity actually go, their productivity actually goes up. And the people, the other ones, their stuff actually goes, because now they have to, the level of focus. Is even at a higher level.

• 50:23Lewis Howes?

  They zone in more.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 50:26Lewis Howes?

  So resiliency is one for Dwayne. What's the other two, would you say, two lessons?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  Seems like a fun dude.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Really.

• 50:34Lewis Howes?

  A happy guy, right?

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Yes, a really, really, really, really fun dude. Alright, and the other thing was, he had the shortest memory.

• 50:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Like, if he missed a shot, he's like, okay.

• 50:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Don't hold on, don't hold on, don't hold on. It's just like,

• 50:57Speaker 01

  how many contacts do people have in their phone that, from individuals, you haven't heard, you're not, you haven't heard from in ten, fifteen years, you just won't delete the contact. How much stuff do you have it?

• 51:08Lewis Howes?

  I've got thousands of contacts.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  How many, how many people, how much stuff do you, individuals have in their closet that's never coming back in style? You're never gonna fit in it again, you're never gonna, they just hold on to it.

• 51:20Lewis Howes?

  They're rid of that stuff.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  And people do the same thing. They have one bad game, or they have one, they have one bad report about them, or something says, somebody says, it changes their whole mood, it changes their whole ideas, it changes their whole complexity of themselves. Dwayne was just like, shortest memory.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  And fun has a lot to do with that. And winning is fun, alright, winning is fun. The road to get to that fun, to win, is not.

• 51:49Lewis Howes?

  It's challenging.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  It's challenging.

• 51:51Lewis Howes?

  If you can make it fun, that's a, that's a bonus.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know what?

• 51:54Lewis Howes?

  It's pain, though.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  How do you make, how do you make it fun? You gotta be able to laugh at yourself.

• 51:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  You laugh at yourself, you know, like, okay, I'm not supposed to be here. You're not supposed to be here. It's just like, you know, it's just like, yeah, you're, you're right, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not supposed to be sitting in LA talking to Lewis Howes, I'm not, alright? This is, we met at...

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  The Grants event?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  The, yeah, I don't know how many, how many years ago. Yeah, and I don't know how many, four or five, whatever, whatever that, whatever that was. Well, it's just, would, when you were lying down, I think it was on your sister's couch, would you ever think about?

• 52:35Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I'd think about it, but I didn't know if it would happen, when it would happen, how it's gonna happen, all these things.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  When you had that injury, that was like, you know, it's devastating, is it, is it done, alright? And...

• 52:50Speaker 01

  People say

• 52:53Speaker 01

  that person's in a dark place, but you know what? That's where a lot of the healing happens is when you're in that in that place by yourself. When you really get to understand who you are and what it, what it takes. When you had those moments by yourself on that sofa and you're sitting around and you just said, "Yeah, I could sit here all day, all night if I wanted to." But those voices started to talk to you and say, "Hey, this is more out there." That's when your brain really started to work. That's when the chemistry really started to come in. That's when the dopamine hit started to come in because you're like, "This is no longer available to me, but there's so much more out there for me."

• 53:30Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, yeah. We've got a couple of final questions for you. This has been inspiring, but I want people to get the book, Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness. A lot of great praise around this from some of the top athletes, coaches in the world. It's going to inspire you, a lot more lessons and stories. If you enjoyed this conversation, you're going to get a lot more in here as well about how to win. And The Unforgiving Race to Greatness, love the title. I'm not going to ask you who's the best basketball player, but who's the best athlete? Who was like, man, they were just freak athlete and anything they wanted to do, they could do it, that you trained, anyone you trained.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  I trained.

• 54:12Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't have to be MJ or Kobe, but of all the people you trained, who was like, "This person is the greatest athlete, athletically gifted, talented." Not the best basketball player.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Right, right. Let's see.

• 54:25Lewis Howes?

  Because I know you probably don't like answering that question, so I don't ask that.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, let me try to think. You've got to think about this one for a little while.

• 54:34Lewis Howes?

  Like their reaction time, their, their speed, their quickness. They could take on any sport, anything. I know they're all great athletes in lots of sports, but who was like, "Man, this person just is the, doesn't love to win at everything, but they do win at everything because they're so good at, as an athlete."

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Well, so here's the thing. The athlete that I'm thinking about comes to, comes to my, my

• 55:00Speaker 01

  From an athletic standpoint, he was literally off the charts. But he didn't win because he was so athletic.

• 55:08Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:09Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean? He didn't win because he was so athletic?

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Because he relied on his athletic ability.

• 55:14Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, you know what's funny? You know what's funny about this? There was a guy when I was, I was in eighth grade. He was a, going into freshman year, he was a senior. He was the freakiest athlete that I'd ever seen at that time. Now I'm like a 13-year-old, you know, skinny white dude who could barely jump and all these things. And he had a 40-something inch vert. He was like just chiseled, jacked, could shoot threes so smooth. Unbelievable. I'd just never seen a gifted athlete like this. 360 dunking, easy, whatever he wanted to do, he could do it. But he wasn't a winner. Like, he would buckle under pressure or he didn't believe in himself. And I was like, man, it doesn't matter how much of a great athlete you are.

• 55:59Lewis Howes?

  If you don't have the ability to believe in yourself, overcome adversity, challenges and obstacles. And the flip side of that, if you're not the best athlete, but you have the mentality of a winner and you're willing to go harder and overcome adversity and self-doubt, you can win.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Yes. Give me somebody with a little less talent and that, everything that you, and more of whatever you mentioned. I would take that every single time. They, all my greatest, you know, my top individuals, they weren't the greatest athletes out there. But they were great, they were great athletes. They were great people. They were great competitors. All right. They were great givers. They were great, extremely coachable. They were great at winning.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  And they knew how to elevate everybody else around them.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  That's key.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Which is so important. Now, they didn't, they all did it in different ways.

• 56:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  It's easy to elevate yourself. It's easy to get the most out of yourself. Alright? It's so difficult to get

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  To get the most of everyone else.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  To get the most out of every, every, everyone else.

• 57:12Lewis Howes?

  So this guy who was

• 57:13Speaker 01

  I can't give his name.

• 57:14Lewis Howes?

  You don't have to say his name. The guy you were training, he was a better athlete than everyone else.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  It was unbelievable.

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  But what was he not able to do? He didn't have, he wasn't coachable, or he wasn't able to get the best out of everyone around him?

• 57:24Speaker 01

  He was more concerned about the brand.

• 57:26Lewis Howes?

  The way he looked, or his

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Yes. You know, that is, than actual Yes, than winning. And winning, listen, winning is all consuming. It needs to be like, hey, I'm the only thing that matters right now.

• 57:39Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  I'm the, otherwise it's gonna turn its attention to somebody else.

• 57:43Lewis Howes?

  Right. And I'm the only thing, and the team's the only thing that matters if it's a team sport.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:49Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Well, you have

• 57:50Lewis Howes?

  You could score a hundred points, but you might lose.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Right, and that's around elevating, elevating a team. What I've done with each one of my athletes, and I continue to do this, you know, you have your team goals. But I said, I want, what are your individual goals that are gonna help obtain the team goals, and what are the individual goals that might be up here that are gonna be best for you, but not best for the team?

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah. You scoring sixty a game is not gonna be best for the team.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:21Lewis Howes?

  But you scoring thirty-five on average, and forty, fifty a couple of times.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I just said, now, where are we on this? Where, where, where are, where we are, where we are on this? Because if you're over here on this, then we're not getting over, we're not getting over here. And I said, if we're more over here, where we can, we'll get, we'll get, cause if You give, if you give just enough, you'll get so much more from these under, from these individuals here.

• 58:50Lewis Howes?

  That's what we learned from Michael in The Last Dance and talking about that as well.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:55Lewis Howes?

  Okay, couple of final questions. This is a question I ask everyone at the end called the three truths. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario. It's your last day on earth, many years away from now. You get to live as old as you want to live. For whatever reason, you've got to take everything you've ever created. This book, this interview, it's all gonna go with you to the next place. So no one has access to your words, content, or anything you've ever said. Hypothetical. But you get to leave behind three lessons, three things you know to be true from all of your experiences in life. And this is all we would have to remember you by. Are these three principles, lessons, what I like to call truths? What would you say are those three truths for you?

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Control your thoughts.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  Control your emotions.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  You'll control the outcome.

• 59:53Lewis Howes?

  Well, it comes down to being able to manage the bombs in your mind like you talked about and not reacting emotionally from these scenarios.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  You're not your thoughts. Because I've had some thoughts, if I acted on them. Yeah. Yeah, all right. Emotions, listen, we all have them.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  But you don't have to react to every single emotion out there. And is it, I'm not telling you not to be emotional, but is it an emotion that is created by yourself or is it an emotion that somebody else created inside of you?

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Right. And then, you know, be happy, live your life, go out there and do things. Like, you put out all this information.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Knowledge is power, but only if you use it.

• 1:00:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  You know, you should, from individuals that you hear from, don't be, don't be so excited for the next episode if you haven't absorbed and learned from the episode before.

• 1:01:05Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Everybody's always about what's next, what's next, what's next.

• 1:01:10Lewis Howes?

  What's now?

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:12Lewis Howes?

  What's now? That's what I was talking about, yeah.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  What's, what's now?

• 1:01:16Lewis Howes?

  I'm excited about this book, Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness. Uh, Tim, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for the way you've been showing up for the greatest athletes in the world for the last two, three decades, and how you've continued to improve and evolve yourself.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:01:33Lewis Howes?

  How you continue, continue to take the information and distill it in ways that we can receive it and understand for our life, so we can improve the quality of our life. And I acknowledge you for constantly overcoming the challenges that you might be facing in your life. We didn't get to talk about a lot of that stuff, you personally going through. But for you to create, even when you might be struggling or going through your own stuff, is really inspiring because you're here to serve other people, so.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  We all are.

• 1:01:59Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  We all are. And the more people you serve, the better you feel about yourself. The more people, when I said winning is everything, the feeling that it gives. When you see yourself win, when you see your family win, when you see your kids win, when you see others win.

• 1:02:14Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  It's, it's undescribable. It's undescribable. And I know Lewis, and you and I, it's very similar in this. When people come up to you, says, "Man, your words, or your show, or whatever, your book, it changed my life."

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  That's a special feeling.

• 1:02:33Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  That's a special feeling. And I always tell individuals, you know what? You changed your life. We, you took action.

• 1:02:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  You took the time. You listened. We were a small part of it. Thank you, thank you for, thank you for acknowledging it.

• 1:02:49Lewis Howes?

  For sure.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  But just to have, to be that powerful, to have somebody come up to you and just say that. And when you win, you change other people's lives. You change your life, you change other people's lives.

• 1:03:01Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:03:03Lewis Howes?

  They can get the book. They can follow you on social media. Tim Grover everywhere on social media. Anywhere else we can go to support you besides getting the book, online, your website.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Website is timgrover.com. My Instagram is at Tim Grover.

• 1:03:19Lewis Howes?

  Perfect. Awesome. So make sure to connect with Tim over there and say hi to him. Let him know the part of this episode you enjoyed the most. Lots of more information inside the book. So make sure to get a few copies for your friends as well. Final question for you. What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  No regrets. No regrets. I did everything.

• 1:03:39Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  I may have not done it the best, but I did everything.

• 1:03:44Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Tim, thank you, man.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you so much.

• 1:03:47Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this. If you did, share it with a few friends right now. Text a few people. The link is lewishouse.com/1112. Or you can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or anywhere and share with a few friends. Text them, post it in some groups. Tag me on social media when you're on Instagram and let me know that you're listening as well. And if you haven't listened to part one yet, make sure to check out lewishouse.com/1111 to check out part one, what will inspire you as well. And please subscribe and leave a rating and review of the part you enjoyed the most in this interview. What was the part that inspired you? Please let us know in the review section on Apple Podcasts and we like to share those

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  in our newsletter as well to our entire audience. Every week we pick a few people with reviews and share that to our audience. So please let us know. We'd love to know what you enjoyed the most. If you want to be inspired every week through text messages sent to your phone to motivate you, keep you accountable on your goals and your dreams, then text the word podcast to 614-350-3960 and you'll get inspired every week, messages sent to your phone from me. And I want to leave you with a quote from Robert W. Service who said, "No man can be a failure if he thinks he's a success. If he thinks he is a winner, then he is." Again, I loved this series with Tim Grover. Make sure you check out the book. Know that you can create greatness inside of you. You can.

• 1:05:12Lewis Howes?

  Bring it out into the world, but you must be willing to be obsessed with your craft if you want to achieve at the highest levels. If you want to truly accomplish those big goals, you must be willing to dedicate that time. You must be willing to follow the practices and the philosophies that Tim talks about here from what he learned from Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and all these great athletes. So I hope you enjoyed this. And again, if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And you know what time it is? It's time to go out there and do something great.