Why Winning Didn't Fix Me: The Truth About Pain | Kevin Love

Kevin Love has an NBA championship ring, five All-Star selections, and an Olympic gold medal. He also had a panic attack that changed everything. In this conversation, he gets radically honest about what it means to carry anxiety, rage, and childhood wounds into a life that looks like success from the outside. He talks about nine years of estrangement from his parents, the reconciliation that came just before his father died, and what becoming a father himself has taught him about what it means to finally become a man. What comes through most is this: the things you don't say will find a way out. Kevin built a career on channeling pain into performance, and now he's doing the harder thing; learning to actually heal. His Kevin Love Fund is bringing emotional language into classrooms so the next generation of kids doesn't have to wait until their 30s to learn what they're feeling. This is a conversation about athletic mortality, grief, fatherhood, and what it looks like to build a life that matches the work you've done inside. The Greatness Playbook: The Mental Resilience Edition The Kevin Love Fund Kevin's Instagram In this episode you will: Learn how to create boundaries with family that are rooted in growth, not punishment, and why subtraction is sometimes the path to finding yourself Understand what it means to face athletic mortality and how to hold your identity when the thing you've chased your whole life starts letting go of you Discover how unprocessed childhood anger can become both the fuel for elite performance and the thing that quietly destroys your relationships Explore why reconciliation and forgiveness can exist alongside pain, and how two completely opposite truths can be real at the same time Find out why the things we don't say are the most dangerous things we carry, and what it looks like to build a life that is relentlessly curious without fear For more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1923 For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960 Follow The Daily Motivation for essential highlights from The School of Greatness More SOG episodes we think you’ll love: Lewis Howes Solo [Become DANGEROUSLY CONFIDENT!] Scott Galloway Jason Wilson Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I just kept thinking achieving more would make me feel better. It would take these dark feelings away and this feeling that still lives in the pit of my stomach. I will get rid of this anxiety because I will have achieved this. And yet, that's kind of where depression arises. When you think that your brain is going to change. You go back to that baseline after that huge dopamine hit and that achievement. And you're left with the same brain that you've always had without doing the work.

• 0:26Lewis Howes?

  He is a five-time NBA All-Star, an Olympic gold medalist, 2016 NBA champion, and one of the most important voices in the mental health conversation. Please welcome Kevin Love. You spent nine years not speaking to both your mom and dad.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  A lot of times I say less friends, less bull, and in the case it happened to be my family. But on the other side of that, it was so many great moments in me finding myself and being comfortable in my own skin.

• 0:51Lewis Howes?

  What do you think is at the root that you need to really heal?

• 0:54Speaker 00

  I think it's...

• 0:57Lewis Howes?

  I'm so glad that you're here. I've been trying to have you on for a while, but you're a busy guy, always, you know, playing in season. But we have a number of things in common. One, we're both athletes. Two, you know, you've lived a long time in Ohio. You won a championship in Ohio.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Eight and a half years, yep.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  I'm from Ohio. Thank you for your service of winning, bringing a championship to Ohio. We're both have two daughters.

• 1:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:22Lewis Howes?

  And we both lost our fathers recently.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24Lewis Howes?

  And we've both been through our own healing journeys and talking about what it means to be a man and deal with a lot of psychological and emotional wounds that we don't know how to navigate, or we didn't know how to navigate until we started opening up.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:40Lewis Howes?

  So I want to acknowledge you first, Kevin, for being a voice of possibilities for so many people, specifically men, that, you know, us growing up, we didn't have a space typically around our parents or around our peers

• 1:56Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:57Lewis Howes?

  to talk about our feelings, our emotions, to talk about the confusion in our heart and our minds and why we're feeling something. And so, most of our childhood grew up being driven to prove people wrong, driven to figure out how to overcome the anger emotion because we didn't know how to communicate anything else, and driven to succeed to prove our value. So I want to acknowledge you for the last seven, eight years, opening up about your own mental and emotional challenges. Being public about it and creating a space for lots of not only young men, but also women to start to say, what can I do to start looking within myself about these emotions and mental challenges?

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  Start using them as a voice to my peers or getting help and improve my life. So I want to acknowledge you for the journey you've been on.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I appreciate it. No, it's very meaningful to be here. I think it takes, a tribe takes an army and it's an accumulation of having people like yourself in this space speak about it. So how many episodes again have we done?

• 3:01Lewis Howes?

  I think we're like eighteen hundred.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  So eighteen hundred, I'm very happy to be a part of this.

• 3:05Lewis Howes?

  It's great, man.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Just continuing to try and keep moving the needle forward.

• 3:09Lewis Howes?

  It's great, man.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  It's very important work.

• 3:11Lewis Howes?

  And I'm curious because you know, it's a couple of things that are fresh for you in your mind right now. You just finished the season for yourself. We were talking about this idea of athlete mortality.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:20Lewis Howes?

  You know, you don't know how many more years you have left. If you're supposed to keep playing, if you're not supposed to keep playing, your heart says you should, but you have two young daughters. I know now that I want to be around my daughters a lot who are six months old. First off, what is the main thing you're feeling and thinking? You know, I guess a couple of days after the season about your future.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think facing athletic mortality, as you know, or anybody that has ever gone through that, which most people who have ever played sports, whether it be they finish senior year of high school and they're done with their varsity team and their season ends and they're trying to figure out what they're doing next, or if they're going to school and college, or what they're going to study, or what their life is going to look like after their sport, and in some cases like my own, when I started playing organized basketball since probably, you know, five or six years old, that this has been my identity for thirty plus years. And what that's going to look like after my career is over. And finishing my eighteenth season on Sunday, we played the Lakers and final buzzer went off, went to the locker room and everybody went on their separate ways.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  All of these things, and not to say it happened in that moment because it had been leading up to that as well and the season before. What is my life going to look like after, you know, I throw those sneakers over the telephone wire, right? I take those off, I lay the jersey up for one more time. What is my identity? Who am I? What is my life gonna look like moving forward? Because yes, I am a father. There's gonna be a lot of opportunities for me outside of the world of basketball. And I've been able to build this, this legacy piece, which is the Kevin Love Fund and trying to impact people's lives like you have. And it's still very scary because that identity piece is a real thing.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  And it almost feels like a death. Like I lost my, my father last year. And it's not really like I'm comparing the two, although that hits close to home because he also played in the NBA. He played college at, was a two-time All-American, both in high school and college. But it does feel like it's a, a huge loss is coming. So I think that also adds into the anticipatory grief as well. And that's what I'm dealing with. So I want to balance my time with my family and my daughters. Do I want to play another year and, and be away from them as they're changing? My oldest daughter's two and a half, she'll be three in June. Youngest turned one on Valentine's Day. How do I want to balance that time? Have I done enough? Will I look back and regret?

• 5:51Speaker 00

  We talked about inaction and, and action and how that lives in regret. But there's a lot there that is, is being considered. And I think that there's high and low in, in all of those emotions that, that have me contemplating and looking at a lot. And look at myself in the mirror and ask myself, how am I really feeling in this moment?

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  How are you really feeling in this moment?

• 6:15Speaker 00

  Confused.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 6:17Speaker 00

  It's confused. I think that came up before we, we came on. It's like confusion is, you know, a, an emotion and, and something I don't like, you know, choose to explore that often.

• 6:27Lewis Howes?

  You want to be certain.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  You know, like I, I think I'm confused. I'm living in a little bit of fear and it's not for, or lack of opportunity. But I don't know what my life is without basketball being that first love and that, that priority. I'm not saying now that I'm in fatherhood and I'm a husband, that it's not, it's not my number one priority. But I've always kept the main thing, the main thing. And I've chased that and everything else I've wanted in life has chased me right back. So what is my life going to look like outside of basketball? I don't know. So it's, it's confusing. To say I'm not scared would would be a lie, but on the other side of that, I'm just very grateful and hopeful that things will work out as they should because I've I've

• 7:13Speaker 00

  learned a lot and doing this work on myself, I'm a lot more comfortable in my own skin. And, you know, I would say only by admitting who we are, do we get what we want to be very honest about that. I'm very honest about how I'm feeling right now, but still it's I'd be lying to you if I said it wasn't a scary thing to consider and it's it's now crept into my conscious and subconscious every single day.

• 7:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Every day.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  What's the thing you're most afraid of about the unknown of the past?

• 7:42Speaker 00

  I don't care about being forgotten. I mean, I think we live in a world now where even the biggest stories and news cycles will be, you know, kind of recycled and chewed up and spit out in a week, maybe two weeks, right? And I'm not worried about being remembered or how I'll be looked at within the NBA. I just I or within the game of basketball. I think it's some of it may be trauma related, some of it may be just that anxiety of, you know, picking up the ball all the way through middle school, high school, college, NBA to now, just I've almost played half my life in the NBA. So like, what is it going to

• 8:26Speaker 00

  be after the fact? Will my family be the same? Will my girls be taken care of? And I don't know, it's it's it's not necessarily an identity crisis. It's not necessarily something that, you know, scares me not having basketball in my life. It's just more the unknown, I think scares a lot of people and gives a lot of people anxiety. And I'm I'm no different. I'm the same way.

• 8:53Lewis Howes?

  And there's probably a lot of people that are watching or listening that are like, whatever, younger, maybe haven't been successful yet, maybe don't have the money that might be watching this saying, this is Kevin Love. He's won all these accomplishments. He's a gold medalist, NBA champion. He's got all the money in the world related to most people. How could he have any stress or fear or worry based on everything he's created? He's healthy. He's handsome. He's got the family. Like, how can he be stressful? If he's stressed out and uncertain and fearful, and I'm a 20 year old and I've got no money and nothing going for me, I'm screwed. Something, there might be people thinking that. And what would you say to them who are saying, man, your, your life is made, Kevin?

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Right? You know? I would say, you know, it, it happened. I can remember I use this.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  These references all the time about Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain and dating all the way back to 2018. So it was really, you know, I had my panic attack, very public panic attack in 2017, November 5th of that year at home.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  In Cleveland and 2018 started the fun, but we went to the finals, uh, lost. And I can remember.

• 10:02Lewis Howes?

  2017, you lost.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  No, 2018. So 2017 was the start of the season and then 2018 was the final. So Anthony Bourdain had, had died the morning of game four.

• 10:12Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 10:12Speaker 00

  NBA finals.

• 10:13Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 10:14Speaker 00

  And, um.

• 10:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  I can just remember that. And he was a guy like I always mentioned it, uh, I mentioned it a number of times, spoken at length about it. Like he was a guy, you know, he felt like he lived vicariously through him. He had the greatest job in the world and you know, it was a great relationship and obviously he had suffered with addiction, had come through that and now was like universally well-liked and well-loved and seemed like he had everything, right? And yet, I think it was Bryan Cranston who said that. I always reference him. It's like, if you just look at all this and look at the face of depression, everybody's smiling, everybody's happy. There's all these comedians or these people in, in the public eye that seemingly have it all. Like Kate Spade had said, you know, I, I didn't speak about it because I thought it would hurt my brand. Right? And it sounds familiar.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  And Bryan Cranston had said, you know, success is not immune to depression. So like, it doesn't matter who you are. There's, you know, I always say, there's, nobody benefits from withholding compassion and, um, you know, epigenetics are real. We spoke about that as well. So at a cellular level, depending on who your family is, who you come from, um. You know, these generational cycles, it can quite literally live with inside of you. But again, I don't dismiss anybody's struggle because everybody has their own story. Everybody's going to go through grief, the loss of a parent. Everybody's going to go through some sort of trauma at some point in their life, whether it be young and their brains are still growing and they're still understanding who they are

• 11:43Speaker 00

  and their nervous system is growing as well. So I would hope that people understand that we are tribal beings and we're all in this together. So and just like I've practiced gratitude within all of this.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I think it's also, we were talking about the documentary Weight of Gold, which I've mentioned so many times on this show, so I'm glad you brought it up. Because, you know, a lot of times, high achieving individuals like yourself or anyone at an elite level, they've usually come from some type of wound or some type of trauma where they're driven to overcompensate. You know, that was me, to prove people wrong, to like, whatever, to go for this thing and stand up for their dreams. That conditioning can teach us how to be driven to accomplish, but it doesn't teach us how to navigate our emotions.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  No.

• 12:32Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't teach you how to, and it doesn't teach you how to navigate success once you have it.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:36Lewis Howes?

  So this idea of the Weight of Gold, the documentary, which everyone should watch, talks about these Olympic gold medalists or medalists who go through extreme depression within months after their Olympic medal or the Olympics, and a lot of them commit suicide within the first year or two after the Olympics. So it doesn't, just because you succeed, doesn't mean you're happy.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:55Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't mean you have peace in your heart. And part of that drive to success might be because you're lacking it.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:02Lewis Howes?

  And we think, once we accomplish, we'll feel better. But that doesn't usually happen. You sometimes feel worse, right? Did you ever feel worse the more you accomplished?

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Yes, and I've talked about that too, because you think it's going to fill a void.

• 13:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  And you think that you're going to, you truly believe in your heart that I can just achieve my way out of depression. Or I will get rid of this anxiety because I will have achieved this. But like, we're so good at. I was even talking to somebody about it the other day because I just finished my 18 season. They're like, how long do you want to go? I was like, well, when I first came into the league, it was 10 years. Then it became 12 years. Then it became 15. And 18, I thought, might as well make it to 20. So you keep moving that goalpost and you keep dangling the carrot outside of what you consider success. I just kept thinking achieving more would, you know, make me feel better. It would take these heavy and dark feelings away. And this feeling that still lives in the pit of my stomach, as we talked about every single day,

• 14:00Speaker 00

  that I continue to work on. And yet that just wasn't the case. I mean, it was actually very unhealthy for me to keep thinking like that and keep thinking I was going to establish more. I was going to have to make more money. I was going to have to get all these accolades or I was going to have to just keep putting numbers on the board in whatever area that I thought would give me fulfillment.

• 14:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  And yet that's kind of where depression arises or like comes up from dormancy is when you think that your brain is going to change or you think these, your nervous system, all these things are going to change within you. And yet you establish your, you know, you go back to that, that baseline after that huge dopamine hit and that achievement. And you're left with the same brain that you've always had without doing the work. So it makes sense that you would get to even a more sunken place, hoping that that would heal you.

• 14:51Lewis Howes?

  Cause you had an expectation, I'm going to feel better.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  I did all this work for years to accomplish. I over, I slayed every dragon. I'm the winner of whatever this game is. Why do I feel worse?

• 15:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:05Lewis Howes?

  It's because you had this expectation and you still are the same person with just more shiny objects.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  And we talked about sprinters too, right? Imagine you run the 100 meter and you're training for your entire life. But even if you go from Olympics to Olympics and it's a four year window, then you're like, is this, is this all there is? I thought this was supposed to heal me. I thought this was supposed to make me happy. And it's not to say that in that moment or, and long-term, you're not going to be very proud and feel a certain way about it. But to think that inherently that in itself is going to heal you.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  It's just not the case.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  It's not the case.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  And you see it time and time again.

• 15:42Lewis Howes?

  On a scale of one to 10 currently in your life, how much pain do you feel in your, in your body, in your nervous system and in your emotions? 10 being like unbearable pain, one being you have complete inner peace. Where are you on that scale?

• 16:01Speaker 00

  So, you know, I talked about my knees. My knees was a scale of one to 10.

• 16:05Lewis Howes?

  Not physical pain.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  I would tell you different, yeah.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, not physical pain, but the nervous system, emotional, psychological.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Okay, so I would say on a daily basis, I'm my nervous system and that feeling I told you of like that pit of anxiety in my stomach probably hums it to five or six.

• 16:22Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  Which to me is like healthy. And I always talk about, I don't know if it's the anxiety or it's like the appropriate fear, you know, that, that feeling of being out in public and agoraphobia and, um, you know, public embarrassment or my, I'm doing something wrong or people are gonna look at me and people are gonna figure me out. Like that has become a lot better. I'm, I mean, can't tell you since how much better I've gotten with that since I started doing the work in 2017 that I, I actually not only feel more comfortable in my own skin, but I always say like, you can't use me against me. Like I've, I've laid out most of my cards.

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  You've eight-miled yourself.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  Do you say this too?

• 17:04Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I've said it before, but.

• 17:05Speaker 00

  Are you literally say about this eight mile thing? I have it, hold on a second. You, you do this too? I'm like, you got, you guys, I use it. I'm like, you know, B Rabbit when he's just like, I live in a trailer with my mom. I'm a bum, you know? I like use this all the time. Cause like you, what are you gonna say? Papa Doc, you're just gonna sit there and be like, I got nothing.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  I've said, I mean, I wrote a whole book about all this stuff. I've been, the stuff I told you in here, like I've shared all this in a book. I've shared it publicly on the podcast, like all my traumas and wounds and fears and insecurities. You can't outshare my traumas of me and my shame. You know, I've shared my shame.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  You can't, like, you can't hurt me. It's if, if I've already lived all that, I've already put myself through the worst scenarios and worst.

• 17:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  So many times and that conflict or how that would look come from somebody else and I would just be like, yeah. Okay.

• 17:53Lewis Howes?

  Well.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  You're right.

• 17:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  So like, what else?

• 17:56Lewis Howes?

  Not what?

• 17:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. You wanna, you're not, there's nothing you're gonna do to hurt me, so that's fine. You're the only other person I've ever heard.

• 18:01Lewis Howes?

  Let's go.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  Reference eight mile, that's so funny.

• 18:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  I love that because it's so true. It's so true.

• 18:06Lewis Howes?

  So you feel like you're at a five or a six every day?

• 18:09Speaker 00

  But it's a healthy five or six, if that even exists.

• 18:12Lewis Howes?

  There's still, you say, pain in the pit of your stomach.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, kinda chest area. And I take.

• 18:18Lewis Howes?

  Daily.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Medications, yeah, I have my SSRIs and those help.

• 18:21Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Like the, the anxiety and that feeling isn't coming out my extremities, right? And I'm not sweating and then having the anxiety that I'm, I'm having, something is going on and then sweat more and then I, you know, overheat. And then that becomes this whole thing where I have to remove myself.

• 18:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow, did that used to happen a lot?

• 18:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, and also it would manifest as, as where I didn't have the language to be able to express myself when I was young. So anybody that knows me knows I was rage fits. Rage fits and that was what I saw from my father at home because he also didn't know.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  He, you know, that emotional intelligence wasn't taught to him at an early age. He only saw and knew what he knew and how to, how to deal with it.

• 19:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  You know, we learn all these things from our parents.

• 19:08Lewis Howes?

  I mean, speaking of parents, you told me before that you spent nine years not speaking to both your mom and dad.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Just about.

• 19:14Lewis Howes?

  Roughly.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:14Lewis Howes?

  Roughly nine years.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Around that.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  And this is when you were winning an NBA championship, I believe. You won an Olympic gold medal during that time.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  So that was before, Olympic gold medal is 2012.

• 19:25Lewis Howes?

  Okay, okay.

• 19:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:26Lewis Howes?

  So it was before, you were still talking to them?

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay, I got you. But after that, you stopped talking to them?

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was really around the, yeah, 2016 playoffs and, and, and finals. So we, um, you know, and that's, family dynamics are.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  You know, they're layered, they're multifaceted and they're, they're, they're tough. I mean, even my, my, my dad's side of the family, it's well documented with the, with the Loves and even the Wilsons that, you know, within the frame of rock and roll and what Brian Wilson and what Mike Love, my uncle, have spoken about at length, but also in their memoirs and autobiography, like they, you know, there's a lot of trauma there. There's a lot of emotional depth there and, um, you know, even the Wilsons themselves have taken it to, to, you know, different levels and, and the Loves and my uncle has done an incredible job in navigating rock and roll in that space. And, but he was, you know, he's been doing TM and Transcendental Meditation for, I don't know, 60 years.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  He's a, you know, one of the OGs in that and done, done really great. But still, no, I mean, I think my dad caught a lot of that as well. And there were times where, you know, the household, there was full of landmines and you know, if it's going to be screaming or something physical was going to happen or it was, uh, you know, uh, just landmines, slammed doors, screaming, all that stuff. So.

• 20:51Lewis Howes?

  When, when did you feel like you needed to create a boundary and say like, I need to cut them out or I need to have a boundary? Or like, how did that come about inside of you to say, okay, enough is enough? This is not healthy for me to have this relationship at this season of life.

• 21:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it was from my end, needing to take a look at myself and understand that I needed to grow too. And sometimes if, if things aren't, uh, excuse me, adding up, you need to start subtracting. And I thought that in that case, keeping my circle small, um, even a lot of times I say less friends, less bullshit. And in the case, it, it happened to be my family, but on the other side of that, it was, um, It led to so many great moments of me finding myself and being comfortable in my own skin and going through that process where at the end of my father's life, which was last April, it was a beautiful moment of, and of course, everything wasn't figured

• 21:46Speaker 00

  out and there were some things that we just wanted to put to the side and say, hey, let's focus on the good because, as I said, a couple of things can be, I talked to Dr. Conti about it, like two things, so many things can be possible and true at the same time. Like, I didn't get what I needed, but I also had a great childhood and got what I needed as well, which was amazing. Like I chose to, my dad just, he would have had his 77th birthday on April 9th. I, we, my mom and I, my brother and sister all chose to celebrate him.

• 22:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  And there was reconciliation and there was forgiveness at the end of it. And he was the guy I looked at as like my hero growing up. And he was the one who handed me the basketball. But was he perfect? Was I have a perfect son? Was our relationship perfect? No. And, you know, I needed that time in order to find myself and to give myself, find the both, both the good and the bad in it, but also it allowed me in my personal life to be a better father, both from his success and even more so his failures. The same thing happened with my career through the lens of his life and his career. And then

• 22:59Speaker 00

  I think just overall satisfaction and fulfillment, looking at him. So again, he, in all of it, he taught me a lot. He was probably, he's my greatest teacher.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  What was the greatest lesson he taught you on the empowering side and maybe the side that you didn't enjoy as much of what not to do?

• 23:17Speaker 00

  So in terms of basketball, because I'll say that's where he had the biggest influence on me was how to approach the game and also like aggressive will, like going out there. And it's become such a country club sport now, where it's like if you can pay for the trainer, if you can pay for the strength and conditioning coach, if you can pay for travel basketball and all, you know, all these things that we couldn't afford.

• 23:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  That he put me in a place to have a particular mindset. I didn't have the language to be able to like express myself and how I was feeling, but he channeled all of that.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  Rage and anger and showing me how to play and through his mind and his also his failures. Like he was very open and he admitted a lot about him not being able to, he didn't work hard enough. He was a free spirit. He was, you know, playing for the Lakers and then

• 24:14Speaker 00

  and playing is a strong word with that. And then, you know, touring with the Beach Boys in the summertime. So like he wasn't, there was no. Was living the dream though. I mean, it was living the dream, but then, you know, his career only lasted just under five years and, you know, he they looked at me and sometimes I caught, you know, let's call it some heat and some ugliness from him because he probably saw me and thought, I don't want my son to, I guess, fail. Like I did. Even though he made it in that way, but he didn't want me to end up like him. He wanted me to have a long career, chase the game, put in the work, be a self-starter. And where he is free spirited and

• 24:52Speaker 00

  just kind of went to the beat of his own drum, he wanted me to be a different way. So I think in that way, he taught me something different. And also, I think on the other side, it was, I mean, both good and bad because like I, we have daughters now and my sister's the youngest of the threes of older brother Colin, younger sister Emily, and he was so gentle with her. Right? So he also like taught me that whereas like not to be how he was with like my brother, especially still does, but like looks like a love, looks exactly like my dad did when he was born and growing up. So I'm like, that probably has to be tough for him. And then, you know, for me, I was the outlier, the high achiever.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  And kind of the kid that was the golden child and the one player in the country, the kid that, you know, had to be protected. And while there are some ways were instances where he didn't do that, in other ways, he was the guy that would, you know, take the bullet for me, stand in front of me. So again, there's duality in both of it. There's a balance, but you know, it's, it's true that I did get what I need, but also didn't at the same time.

• 26:06Lewis Howes?

  And how did it come about where you started their comeback together? You know, before his death?

• 26:11Speaker 00

  He got sick. Yeah, he got really sick. Yeah, I got cancer and,

• 26:19Speaker 00

  you know, I, you know, we had again talked about, and I mentioned it briefly at the beginning, that

• 26:28Speaker 00

  regret has tied up so much in inaction. I did not want to regret at the end of his life and then at the end of mine. And in the short term, year term and, and, and long term, how I would feel about not having some of those conversations and forgiving. Like, that would be drinking my own poison, right? And then having some sort of reconciliation at the end of his life, so.

• 26:52Lewis Howes?

  And you got to have that.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was probably the last, yeah, sixteen months or so of, of his life, sixteen, eighteen months. And then, you know, he went into hospice about the last six weeks of his life. And then, like I said, late April of last year had, had, had passed away.

• 27:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow. I mean, it's almost been a year then. How, how are you feeling one year after his passing?

• 27:13Speaker 00

  Still confused. Last year was a, probably the, you know, personally, one of, if not the hardest year, you know, of, of, of my life because he, you know, had to watch his, get his leg amputated and, you know, at a certain point, I forget what the statistics are, you know, you break your hip past the age of seventy-five or maybe even seventies. So like, and then you have a

• 27:36Lewis Howes?

  A window.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  A window of months. I think it's six months or a year, maybe. And, you know, he had broken his hip, so that sped up the, the process as well. So he had to get two surgeries within the course of four days. And that was in late October and then early November of, of, of last year. And then things just progressively got worse because it was apparent that he would never get out of his hospital bed again. So we moved him home and, yeah, hospice. That's where my mom is just such an angel and a godsend. I don't know how she had the capacity to. Physical and emotional capacity to be able to actually take care of him. She was a career nurse and I mean, just I look at her with a whole new lens after that

• 28:19Speaker 00

  because she kept him alive for so long and was on his call, on call for him 24/7. I mean, it was really an unbelievable feat to watch. That's longevity right there.

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh, I've heard from a lot of people that say you truly don't become a man until you've lost your father and until you have kids.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:38Lewis Howes?

  And I lost my father four years ago and you lost yours a year ago. And we both have young kids now.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 28:44Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like in any way that's true for you that you're like, now that you've lost your father and you're also a father, do you feel like you're stepping into being a man more?

• 28:56Speaker 00

  For sure. Especially, it's new for you having, having daughters. You're six months in, right?

• 29:02Lewis Howes?

  Six months in.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  With, with twins, so I mean, you had two, bang, bang.

• 29:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  Uh, and so I have a, yeah, again, two and a half year old daughter and a year, a year old. Um, and I think it's just completely changed my perspective and, and they'd say it softens you when you have daughters too. It's funny, like I'll watch a news story, cause of course the news is so happy and, or I'll, I'll watch a movie that, um, and I think it makes, I don't know what people would say, or if there's like science or data behind this, but hopefully it means I'm emotionally intelligent. It's like I am such more, so much more of like a wet person now that I have daughters and I'm softer because of it. And I see things through a, a different lens when I see these stories about, um, not only

• 29:47Speaker 00

  family conflict, but loss and movies with, you know, heavy emotional depth and, um, uh, you know, familial adversity, those type of things that, um, hit so much different now that I've had kids and from the loss of my father as well. But also, you know, the, the good and bad in both, um, from, uh, you know, the, the relationship with my dad, it, it also just taught me so much in, in, in what to be in a father in a big way. So I'm, I'm extremely grateful for that and I choose to celebrate that.

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 30:24Speaker 00

  You know, through that lens.

• 30:25Lewis Howes?

  That's cool, man. I want to go back to your, your pain, your nervous system pain. I'm curious, what do you think would take for you to create true inner peace and to, and to heal? The different pain that you have that you're experiencing. You've done a lot of work on this already. You've worked with like the top psychologists and therapists and Dr. Paul Conti and who's been on here. But what do you think is at the root that you need to really heal?

• 30:51Speaker 00

  I think it's that. I think it's especially in considering where I'm at in my career as well. I think it's an accumulation of all of these things and stripping it all back. But I do think it's, I was a precocious kid. I was an outlier. I was somebody who from the age of five or six, when I started playing organized basketball and was playing three grades up with my brother. You know, people were like, oh, that kid is, you know.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  Something special, yeah, yeah.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  Right. And it was pretty apparent what I could be. And I think unpacking, and my dad put a lot of pressure on me and so did the community that I was in. And I was a big fish in a smaller pond in Portland, Oregon. But I was the number one player in the country pretty, pretty early or a top few player in the country pretty early and was.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  That's a pressure also. It's like when someone says, okay, here's the number one.

• 31:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:38Lewis Howes?

  Person in the country. And you're what 16, 17 or 18?

• 31:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe even younger and I was.

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  That's a lot of pressure.

• 31:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think there was a probably 14, I would say, because we went to a

• 31:51Speaker 00

  a the national championships in Orlando, Florida. And I came out of that, you know, ranked maybe the number two or number one guy in the country.

• 31:58Lewis Howes?

  For your age group or for like?

• 31:59Speaker 00

  Age group.

• 32:00Lewis Howes?

  This AAU is this like?

• 32:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's AAU. So this for the, this for the country and.

• 32:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  It was, yeah, pretty well known then that I was, you know, gonna be.

• 32:08Lewis Howes?

  The next guy up, yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  The next guy up.

• 32:11Lewis Howes?

  What does that feel like? You're 14 and you're essentially the number one player in the country. What does it do for your identity, your psychology? Like, does it excite you? Do you build a level of confidence that's like your ego explodes?

• 32:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 32:23Speaker 00

  All of the above. And like, that's where I'm like, you know, I have, I talked about like having shame shivers and I still think about it now. And I've seen a lot of people that I went to high school with since. And every time I see him, I'm like. In some cases, I apologize, but I'm like, we were all feeling certain big emotions at that time. I wish I could go back there and change this, but no, just like, you know, if I offloaded hurt, I apologize because I was feeling some sort of way. And like, of course, when you're young, it's like, you know, you talked about like, you know, you want to put your arm around your boy and he's like, you know, get off me, get off me for, you know, we use certain words for it. Like, it's just, I'm happy to see at least like in my fun and the work we do now,

• 33:05Speaker 00

  like, kids are so much more open to being vulnerable or open to change, which is really cool to see because I never had that. And I never really had those conversations. There's one other friend and it's my other best friend from back home is, is the only guy I would have that with. But even then, I'm just like, at other people's expense, I would offload these things. And I look back and, you know, it kind of makes me sad and I'm shameful, you know, of that. But I think going back to your question, it's been unpacking, I don't know, 30, 25, 30 ish years of expectation as well, and factor that into quite literally

• 33:48Speaker 00

  everything and what that means for, you know, all of the emotionality that I've dealt with over the course of time. It's, it's, it's, you know, that word keeps coming back. It's confusing. It's very confusing. So unpacking that has been something that I think will help start that process. And then the unpacking needs to continue to happen with whatever trauma or whatever I was feeling at the time, whatever confusion and knowing that all of my feelings were valid, both good and bad. I need to keep telling myself that because I keep telling myself like, who am I to think like that? It's just like the kids that you speak of, like, look, he has everything. Why does he feel like this? And it's like,

• 34:31Speaker 00

  you know, different, different bucket, different scoreboard. I don't think it matters. I think it transcends. Everybody has their story and now they, how they deal with it and how they feel.

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  Do you think it would have been possible for you to have a quote unquote a healthier childhood, you know, a less traumatic childhood or a more healthy relationship with your emotions and your parents and you still be able to accomplish what you've accomplished in your career?

• 34:58Speaker 00

  See, that's a great question because as an athlete, you know this, like my, I always say it was a gift and a curse. Because my anger, my rage that was like stemmed from the anxiety. And the whatever darkness or not wanting to come out of the room or not having emotional availability or intelligence or bandwidth or budgeting my stress. I, you know, I wanna like stay in my room in a dark room and then go practice and lift weights. And then I'd have to go to school and then like, you know, I wanted like a girlfriend to love me and then like be with my boys and be like, like it was, some of it was healthy, some of it not so much, but it was,

• 35:41Speaker 00

  I feel like that especially the, the strong, heavy anxiety was such a driving force. So I'm like, it was a gift and a curse. It still is. I almost, I always ask the question and I don't mean this to be,

• 35:57Speaker 00

  you know, it, it might come up, it might not, but I'm like, did, did I leave stuff on the table because I, I, not because I started getting the, the help, but like, did any of the, the medication or, or any of the things that I did to,

• 36:12Lewis Howes?

  Heal?

• 36:13Speaker 00

  Heal, which is overwhelmingly a positive, but did, did it take away that like,

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  Edge.

• 36:19Speaker 00

  Edge to go for it. I don't know.

• 36:22Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 36:23Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 36:24Lewis Howes?

  Do you think you've been less successful in your athletic career since starting the healing process?

• 36:29Speaker 00

  I think just my, my prime because of my body was just earlier, but that thought creeps in. I, I truly believe that like I, I was on the athletic decline as far as my, my athletic prime goes.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  You were at the top. Yeah, yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  Without a doubt, my life satisfaction is higher.

• 36:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Right? Like is there fulfillment needs that? Are there on every side? Sure, like, but again, I think it's continuing to.

• 36:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm curious where what life would have been like if that, you know, if you just had a healthier relationship with emotions and parents growing up and you were cultivated in an environment of being driven without anger. I wonder.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  Well, it's like Michael Jordan, right?

• 37:14Speaker 00

  I just have to bring him up. I'm not saying anything, anything similar, but that mindset of like he, he, I mean, I was only because I was talking about the last dance last night. I've watched it six times.

• 37:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I love it.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  And he's like, I took that personal, right? He would just keep making up enemies. Whether it was real or not, he would just keep making up these things that happened, didn't happen. And so therefore, like, he's playing tricks on his mind to create that.

• 37:40Lewis Howes?

  Tom Brady did a lot of that, too.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  He did a lot of that, too. Right. And he talks about it. I love his mindset, too. What did he say? What was that? Like, okay. And I think that that you have to get your brain there and, and, you know, people say psych yourself up in a way that gets you to a point of of reaching your athletic ceiling and capabilities. But the question is, I don't know. But do I think I would have been able to achieve what I achieved without that form of adversity? I would lean towards saying no. So I almost and I almost feel like it's it's a good way of telling kids like you, you can work on it, but also use channel, find a way to channel it as a gift to put it elsewhere, put that energy elsewhere, harness it elsewhere.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  But I don't know how, at least at the time, I didn't know if that was even possible. I still don't know if it's completely possible.

• 38:32Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  Both, you know.

• 38:33Lewis Howes?

  I mean, as a father now, I'm thinking the same thing. I'm like, I want my daughters to be successful in their life and accomplished, but I don't want them to have, I want them, I want to create controlled adversity that they need to learn how to overcome. But also give them a lot of love. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to like fracture their psychology. So they're like, I have to go prove myself to my dad or something. You know, it's like, that's not my intention. And I'm curious, do you know anyone in the league or who's maybe retired or still playing that really has a lot of love and peace in their heart, like truly has love? Not saying they're perfect and maybe they have some challenges, but. They just seem like they're super healthy in their nervous system and yet they're just killers on the court.

• 39:14Lewis Howes?

  Do you know anyone like that? Or you're just like, man, they're just like, they just seem peaceful and calm and harmonious. I just watched the documentary with, uh, what's the guy's name? A former Laker. Uh, Lamar Odom.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:27Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I don't know if you've seen this one yet on Netflix.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Not saying I lived it with him, but Lamar and I, yeah, we were on the world championship team together, same agent. I was there.

• 39:37Lewis Howes?

  Really? Yeah. I mean, did you watch The Untold?

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Uh-huh.

• 39:40Lewis Howes?

  Series with him?

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:41Lewis Howes?

  I mean, he's still got some stuff inside of him, but it's like.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:45Lewis Howes?

  What was that like?

• 39:45Speaker 00

  Traumatic childhood. That was.

• 39:47Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah. Did he, I mean, what was that experience like with him then?

• 39:53Speaker 00

  No, just being around him. I was, I was there when, you know, he first started his, um, you know, relationship with, with Chloe, which had to have been around 2009, 2010 and, um.

• 40:03Lewis Howes?

  You guys were on the same team?

• 40:04Speaker 00

  Which, so world championship team, uh, we played in Istanbul and won a gold medal together.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  Okay, USA team.

• 40:09Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, USA team. So then played against some.

• 40:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  Lakers. We had the, uh, we had the same agent, basketball agent.

• 40:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 40:15Speaker 00

  And, um, so I got to know Lamar pretty well and even through all the traumatic experiences that I learned about that he had and, and, you know, growing up, very traumatic. Um, you could see where those, where those came from, especially after watching that documentary, but, you know, you could also see the, the spiral.

• 40:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 00

  In and all, and no one could prepare him for what was, what was coming. It was, it was really, really sad. And when you know somebody at, at, at that level, which I knew Lamar relatively well, um,

• 40:46Speaker 00

  it's painful to see. You, you sympathize and you feel for him in a major way because, you know, that's one of your brothers. It's like, you know, it's such an elite fraternity already.

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  Uh, with 450 players, but when you win a gold medal with somebody and you've gone and been in the trenches with them and this person has put his arm around you and, um, you know, helped you in your career. It's, it's, it's, um, it's tough to, to, to watch that, especially when now you know just how far it went.

• 41:15Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:16Lewis Howes?

  It's dark.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  It's very dark.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  Is there anyone in the league then that you've seen or know that you're just like, oh, they seem to have it, life figured out internally? And they can go out and do well at an elite level? Or is everyone just got?

• 41:30Speaker 00

  No, you know, I think like, I think every, yeah, everybody does in some case, but I look at guys that,

• 41:37Speaker 00

  you know, of course, like LeBron is an example, but like Steph Curry is a great example.

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, he seems very peaceful inside.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  He seems very peaceful inside, you know, he, he, he does, he's very healthy. Family life, healthy, he, you know, has, um, you know, a lot of what he does is based around faith and family. He just seems like he, he has an amazing foundation and even, what is he, 16 years into the league is still

• 42:03Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  performing at his level. He's the one that I would circle outside of the realm of guys that I've, I've, I've played with, even though he was on that 2010 team as well, but, um, and I hated him for four years, playing him in the finals. But, uh, he's somebody that I would circle as, um, you know, somebody who really has it together, you know, emotionally, spiritually, and has taken care of his body. So like just checked so many boxes.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  So it's possible to be world-class, one of the best.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  It is.

• 42:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  I think it's extremely rare.

• 42:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  Extremely rare, but I think that, um, his biggest fight right now is probably like father time and then time in general, just being around his family and around his kids. But I think that from the outside looking in and knowing Steph relatively well is, is, uh, he has a great work-life balance and he chases both with everything. He, he seems to, he seems to have it like that is, it looks, that's what success

• 42:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  for the most part should, should look like. It looks right.

• 43:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and he seems like he's got a relationship with the parents and it's like,

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 43:05Lewis Howes?

  he seems like joyful a lot of the time.

• 43:08Speaker 00

  And he probably has, there's trauma in there and there's things that have happened, but it, it, it truly seems like he's, uh, he's in, he's in a good place and you don't get to where he is also without, he's a great communicator, you can tell.

• 43:19Lewis Howes?

  And one of the things that he, you know, you mentioned his faith, it's like after every shot, he's connected to God.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:25Lewis Howes?

  Or after every make, it looks like, um, what's your relationship with God and faith?

• 43:31Speaker 00

  For me, it's always just, I've had my own internal belief system, you know, it's funny, I, I, I've, you know, studied Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, uh, Catholic, you know, we, I'm not gonna say I grew up Catholic, but I grew up going to church with, with my grandmother, but, um, no, I just.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  Higher power, I guess I believe in that, I believe in, you know, good energy. I do have a internal belief system and a belief system that is strong. But any which way, faith leaning, I'm, you know, not exactly sure. Like my, my wife, my wife is Jewish and so like I'm kind of spread.

• 44:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, all over.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  I just love people.

• 44:16Lewis Howes?

  I guess it's just interesting because you mentioned Steph is like the one guy who's in the league, who's, you know, I'm sure he's not the only one, but the highest level of success, who also is connected to faith. I wonder if that brings him a level of peace.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  I, I believe.

• 44:30Lewis Howes?

  And healing.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  That I'm curious to, you know, ask him that one day, like, hey, is this, do you feel like if you didn't have God or faith in your relationship, whatever that relationship is?

• 44:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you would have this much peace?

• 44:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:44Lewis Howes?

  I wonder what his answer would be.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  I, I couldn't answer it for him, but I would, I would almost guarantee you with how him, him and Ayesha met each other and how they grew up and how, you know, his parents raised him. I, I would, I would bet.

• 44:58Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  That's the case and those are great. Belief systems are amazing to have.

• 45:02Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  I just, I think a big part of it is you find it in different stages and times throughout your life. But.

• 45:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, for me, it's, I think it's, you know, just everybody has their different belief system.

• 45:16Lewis Howes?

  How do you, how do you plan to protect your peace going into this next season? You know, not literal season, but also season of life, whatever, with whatever you choose to do.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think just doing my work early. I think it's leaning into, yeah, not only my therapy, but you know, it's like the saying, kill the body, the mind will die. Take care of my body in case I do decide to, to play again. And there is a, a job there for me in a place that's gonna make my family and I happy. Focus and be highly intentional on spending the time with my girls. Because at this age, I mean, you're starting to notice it now too, like they change so fast. They change so fast.

• 45:58Lewis Howes?

  Every day they wake up, I'm like.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, even from, so my youngest daughter, she turned one in, on Valentine's Day. And even these couple of months that have followed, the change has been astronomical. And then my two and a half year old, it's like every two weeks, it's. You know, you're not saying offigore anymore, you're saying aquafor. Like, bring back, bring back you saying words wrong.

• 46:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, the cute little.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  The cute, oh my god, it's like, you know, death of one stage, rebirth of another. But I'm like, I need that stage back. So I'm find myself scrolling my phone and looking at them. So that's what makes it hard, being away. So I want to be highly intentional with my time spent with them. And then just, you know, also having balance, you know, away from the floor and, and, you know, different things that I love, whether it be, um, you know, writing or photography or travel or, you know, any of those things that getting down the sun and letting the sun hit me in the morning, like all these things that, um, you know, make me feel really good, both body, mind and spirit. So like, I really want to focus on that. So no matter what happens, both good and bad, I will be prepared for it.

• 47:03Lewis Howes?

  Has your mental routine changed over the last 18 seasons in the NBA? Where, you know, you used to prepare a certain way before big games. Now you prepare differently or has it been consistent throughout? And if so, what is that routine to get you mentally ready right before a game?

• 47:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it's all nervous system related now. Like if I'm, um, you know, where as I used to listen to like, you know, really like strong, heavy, like hard, either, you know, rap or, or music that would, you know, inspire me to want to like channel that type of.

• 47:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. But like, could kind of lose my emotions in it. Now it's like, um, could still be that level of, of, of, um, you know, cadence within like a bead or a rhythm or that sort of thing. But typically like no words.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Really?

• 47:56Lewis Howes?

  Or it'll be something that like just calms my nervous system. So I think music is a part of my family. So therefore a huge part of my life is always on, so.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  I think music plays a huge and sound plays a huge part in that as well as in terms of the senses. But mostly, yeah, eat the same, make sure I'm fueled right. I shouldn't say eat the same as like my first few years because I didn't know what I was doing. But routine wise, everything is always very punctual, very, very much at the same time. A little superstitious in that way.

• 48:25Lewis Howes?

  Really, what's the food? What's the same meal?

• 48:28Speaker 00

  You know, it's like start, it's like, you know, white rice and chicken and avocado and just making sure it's balanced. And getting my hydration right, but it's so much more advanced now than it was when I came in in 08, 09.

• 48:39Lewis Howes?

  Just having pizza or whatever you have.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, just whatever was there you grabbed and got the, got the calories and hope it worked out for you. And wonder why you crashed or you didn't, right? So.

• 48:48Lewis Howes?

  At this age, you know, you mentioned father time. That's something I'm trying to battle with as well as like fighting father time is like, how can I extend my athletic journey towards my Olympic dreams for LA 2028? The best way I can with a little over two years away. And I, and I'll be 45 at that time. So the idea of like, how do I continue to stay mentally young and physically young? To prevent injuries, to give myself the ability to live a dream. How do you think about the, I guess, mortality of your body? In with 22 year olds who are just freak athletes in the NBA now. Like these guys are jumping out of the gym.

• 49:32Lewis Howes?

  They're just doing unbelievable athletic feats every night. How do you think about that knowing, oh, maybe I don't have that little step that I used to have. Maybe I'm not jumping that many more inches above the rim that I used to. How do you navigate that internally, knowing? The end may be a year, two, three years away, but it's like, it's here at some point sooner than it is later.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  I'll try to use this for sure. Study the game, study film.

• 50:00Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:00Speaker 00

  A film doesn't lie. Hopefully, you know, they haven't figured that out yet. So I have that advantage.

• 50:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  On them, but I think in terms of my body, it's like cortisol, cortisol, cortisol. Like, how do I keep the inflammation down? Because I always, you know, there's always some, some sort of stress response or something that will set you off um throughout the course of the day. But if you can try and limit that as much as possible, while also knowing that you're gonna be burning it at both ends if you're going in and lifting weights and, and, and doing sprints and putting all that stress on your body and your knees, um and your back uh over the course of time. It's, it's certainly an accumulation. I have a lot of miles on me, having played eighteen seasons, plus, you know, working out in the summertime, plus playing, uh, you know, uh, USA Basketball.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  So, you know, for me, it's, it's keeping the inflammation down. It's eating right, it's sleeping right, um, having proper balance, so there's no burnout. Um, but again, I'm never gonna get those steps back that I once had.

• 51:01Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  It's like just stabilizing, see where you can improve. Uh, summertime off-season is a, is a, is a great chance to do that, do that. Always being curious and trying to learn as much as you possibly can about, you know, how you can help your body, how you can help your body grow, mind grow. Um, and hopefully you'll be able to teach those guys something.

• 51:22Lewis Howes?

  Man, cuz I'm kinda in that season now as well, where I can see I'm still able to be effective and I'm athletic.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  Just can't do it.

• 51:29Lewis Howes?

  And it's like, but I'm not jumping three sixty one leg off, landing on the same foot, like, you know, reaching back and doing all the crazy stuff you used to when you're twenty-six. And you can just recover like that. And so, how do you think about it around confidence and psychologically? Knowing that you're, I don't wanna say you're not as good, because you're better in other ways. But athletically, you're just, you know, uh.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  I wish you had this mind with that body.

• 51:57Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. How do you, how do you deal with it psychologically to not let your confidence go down? Knowing that you're a different athlete, let me say that.

• 52:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it's focusing, like, I know that, uh, at a very elite level, that I can still rebound the ball. At an elite level, I can shoot the ball, um, at an elite level, I can pass the ball. And also admitting, admitting like where I'm at in my career, but understanding where I add value, right? So focusing on those things, fine tuning. As well, I always say you can hear a great team. So like our young guys don't like to communicate. I didn't hear much this year.

• 52:32Lewis Howes?

  I see it, man.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  So that was a great thing that, you know, I learned, especially when I got to the Cavs and had to be a championship team, is that we had to, we had to speak, we had to communicate, if not off the floor, then on the floor to get the best out of each other. So I think that's.

• 52:50Lewis Howes?

  It's a both and, on and off.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  On and off. I mean, you, you need it, but you know, there's, there's exceptions to the rule. Like, of course, you know, Kobe and Shaq hated each other at some point and yet they were just, you know, two of the top few players in the league at the same time, playing on the same team. So there's that. But we, no, we were great communicators and we also had fun together. We trusted each other. So I think that was, um.

• 53:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was huge.

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  I, I hear a lot of, you know, it's talk and touch. It's like the more you talk with each other and the more you touch each other.

• 53:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, Steve Nash.

• 53:19Lewis Howes?

  Steve Nash, right? Didn't they do a study on him? Like the most touches?

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 53:23Lewis Howes?

  He was like of the whole season, right?

• 53:25Speaker 00

  It was him. It's like positive affirmations, basically.

• 53:27Lewis Howes?

  And he was the MVP, like he had the most touches.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 53:30Lewis Howes?

  And he was always positively speaking into the players.

• 53:34Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 53:34Lewis Howes?

  And I think if the coaches.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  Funny how that works.

• 53:36Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that interesting? It's the talk and touch. And I think that's something I'm thinking a lot of this season of my life in handball is like, I can cheer the whole game on the, if I'm on the bench and I'm not playing, I can be cheering and screaming positively for each player on, and that's what I do. If I'm not playing in the game, I'm like, you got this, keep it up. I'm just speaking.

• 53:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:58Lewis Howes?

  And trying to encourage others to communicate because that's infectious.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  Leadership, yeah.

• 54:03Lewis Howes?

  And it's a workout too, screaming the whole.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Oh, it's a, yeah, I have that first, that first seat next to our coaching staff that goes down the line. And I, for the most part, try and be the first out to give everybody love.

• 54:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's good.

• 54:18Speaker 00

  After a timeout or after the end of a quarter, something like that, because I think that that is infectious. And you see more and more people jumping off the bench and going to do that. So celebrate your teammates. I think it's huge.

• 54:31Speaker 00

  And you need to be in that positive mindset because in athletics and in so many, like you're, you're one play away. You're one play away. Like, it's just the reality of it all, right?

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  From what?

• 54:42Speaker 00

  From playing. Both.

• 54:44Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  So if you're out there playing big minutes, if something were to happen to you, you see it all the time, the next person is gonna be up, coming to take your spot, right? And if you're in a bad mindset and you're not celebrating that person and you're thinking, you know, like, screw the team and organization, they're not giving me my opportunity, like, you're so much better off being in the other, like, growth type of mindset and celebrating others and celebrating your people in the locker room while establishing a healthy locker room and healthy space and healthy culture. That when you have the opportunity, I think you're so much better off with that, you're gonna have your teammates trust and they're gonna be like, oh, I like playing with this guy. And those minutes are gonna be there. So like, you have to keep working. You have to be intentional about how you do it and how you navigate it.

• 55:27Lewis Howes?

  With everything you've been through in the last 18 seasons in the NBA, from the wins to the family dynamics and the boundaries you've had to create, to the coming out publicly about anxiety, depression and starting a healing journey, to, you know, coming back with your father in the last couple of years, all these different things, what would you say are the three things that have defined you over the last 18 seasons of your life in the NBA?

• 55:53Speaker 00

  I would say, certainly, the first thing that comes to mind is being outspoken about my mental health, how it's affected me and how I've come out the other side, and the community and fund that I've created and impact, not only on my, on others, but myself through it all. So that's one.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  How important my relationships in my life have been to me. Like, there's a family you're born to, the family you make along the way, right? The family that I've made along the way and the relationships that I've leaned into. And really specifically, there's been people that have been with me over the course of time. Uh, meaning my two best friends from back home and then, you know, I've been with the same agent. I've been with a few of the same people my entire career, but really the last ten or so years, I say ten because that was our, um, our 2016 team won the, with the championship. And then in 2017, 18 was a really tough and trying year for me. After that, everything I learned about myself and, um, those people who were, uh, continued to be there for me.

• 57:05Lewis Howes?

  You learn about the people who, who show up for you during those times and those who you thought would have.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:10Lewis Howes?

  That you're probably no longer in your life.

• 57:12Speaker 00

  I agree. So that's where, where, where that comes in as well. And also I would say now, because it's so fresh on my mind and because having lost a parent, uh, just this past year, um, yeah, what fatherhood, what has taught me, you know, what is most important and, and how much fatherhood and, and being a parent changes your life. So I'd probably say those three things.

• 57:38Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  So it's, yeah, the mental health journey, it is.

• 57:41Lewis Howes?

  Relationships.

• 57:42Speaker 00

  Relationships and friendships. And then it's.

• 57:44Lewis Howes?

  Fatherhood. That's beautiful.

• 57:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:46Lewis Howes?

  And, you know, I, I hope you get to 20, if that's what you want, or as long as you want to go towards. But if you could go from year 18 and if you could go into the future to the last day of your NBA career, your last game where the shoes are out on the court, the jersey's hung up. What do you want this moment until the very end of your NBA career to be? The things you're remembered for, separate from these first 18 years.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  I think especially now, I've, I've.

• 58:18Speaker 00

  Speaking of fulfillment, I mean, we talked about fulfillment and, and searching for that and wanting that. And, and what makes me happy now is like the impact that I've had on guys. I never thought I would be that guy because I think coming into the league, I was so. Had the blinders on and, you know, had some very selfish and narcissistic qualities, which again, it's like you, sometimes you need, you, you need those and, and you have to be a little off to be great or have an opportunity to be great. And you sacrifice a lot and you think I, you know, I, I deserve this because I've put in the work and I've had these breaks and this is, you know, it's, it's mine for the taking. So it's me, me, me. But.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  Again, that, that.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  One of the things I do look back at is like, would it have been a less lonely existence my first six years in the league in Minnesota had I been like, alright guys, like, wrap my arms around my teammates, we were losing so much, I'm like, I'm gonna go out and try and will us to victory, but if not, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna, you know, put up serious numbers and either you guys are coming with me or you're not. So I was like.

• 59:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 59:26Speaker 00

  You know, it's one, it's one of those things. So I didn't realize what it meant to sacrifice and be a great teammate until I got to Cleveland.

• 59:34Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 59:34Speaker 00

  And it came with some tough.

• 59:36Lewis Howes?

  That's us Ohio boys.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, it's like, it came with some tough, tough learning experiences, but no, if, if not for Cleveland, if not for Ohio, if not for the Cavaliers, having learned those lessons, some hard ways, some not so hard, but some very much the hard way, then I wouldn't be who I am today.

• 59:53Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 59:54Speaker 00

  You know, leaving guys in a, a better place professionally and personally in their careers. Cause I never had that veteran in my first six years in the league. Not, not somebody like that.

• 1:00:05Lewis Howes?

  Who taught you this in, in Cleveland? Like, how did this come about?

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  Channing Frye and Richard Jefferson.

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:00:11Speaker 00

  They were like.

• 1:00:12Lewis Howes?

  Jefferson, huh?

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, which people would, you know, if, if you know Rich, he's, yeah, he actually has a true emotional, you know, depth and curiosity to him. And I just saw him the other day. He's been amazing. Obviously has this great personality, great TV personality, but like getting to know Rich has been amazing. And then Channing is, is somebody who I truly love and respect and is one of my best friends and somebody I've been through truly a, a lot with. And he's been very outspoken about his own struggles. So it was really those two that, that helped me, you know, find myself in that way. And I thought, I wanna, I wanna be like them and that. I wanna be a great teammate. I wanna live a, leave a

• 1:00:53Speaker 00

  lasting impression on people. And, you know, they're just guys that I looked at as, as.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  You know, leaders in that way that helped me find myself.

• 1:01:04Lewis Howes?

  I want to ask you about this. You've been on a lot of different teams with USA Basketball teams to different teams in the league. Is it something different about winning a championship with a group of guys that makes you connect with that team differently than just all other teams?

• 1:01:19Speaker 00

  For sure. And it's really top of mind now because like I said, it's been 10 years.

• 1:01:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

  We have our group chat, which it's six of us on there that were so close. And Channing and Richard are on there as well.

• 1:01:30Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 1:01:31Speaker 00

  We talk every day. We were texting this morning and because of, I mean, for example, it's like JR Smith, his his daughter was born very prematurely and we went through that with him and you know, we're all very much feeling for him and scared that he was going to you know, lose his daughter at the time. So we were there for him through that and she's happy and healthy. Channing Frye lost both his mom and dad in the same month.

• 1:02:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  So we were all there for him. Tristan Thompson lost his mother, same thing. I lost my father, same thing. Like we all

• 1:02:12Speaker 00

  you know, showed up, you know, for each other in, in, in, you know, major ways. Richard, same thing. You know, LeBron has, you know, been very open with us about a lot on that text chain. And of course, we keep it very fun and some of the stuff isn't suitable for work.

• 1:02:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you've got some memes in there.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  But we, you know, we, we, we show up for each other and that is, you know, such a major part of, of, the friendship and the brotherhood that was the Cavs. But those are relationships that you develop over the course of your career. But specific to that team, having gone through all those battles, having lost in 2015, having lost in, in, in 17 and 18, but winning in 16 in the manner that we did and how

• 1:02:53Lewis Howes?

  Down 3-1, right?

• 1:02:54Speaker 00

  Together, yeah, we were. We had nobody that had ever done it before. We did it on the road.

• 1:02:58Lewis Howes?

  That was incredible.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, we, we had many guys throughout the course of that, that run, including those seven games against the Warriors step up in a major way. So we'll always be connected and now we're, we're planning a 10 year reunion trip. So we'll see what happens.

• 1:03:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's cool, man. I remember I was, I was coming back from a, a USA handball trip in Buenos Aires.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Lewis Howes?

  When you guys won and I was Losing my mind because I'm from Ohio. So I was like, ah, it was the greatest thing. It was the greatest feeling. I was just like, you know, we'd always suffered. So Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Cavs. It was like, we've just suffered.

• 1:03:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Lewis Howes?

  So you guys really brought it back. And so I acknowledge you guys for that. That was a lot of fun.

• 1:03:41Lewis Howes?

  This has been powerful, man. I'm really grateful for you opening up and hopefully we'll have you back on in the future sometime. Maybe when the last season is done, we'll come talk about and see.

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  How what that time felt like.

• 1:03:52Lewis Howes?

  What that timeframe, because you mentioned the one thing you want to do is to really have an impact on the guys that you're surrounded with. Over these next, however, many seasons you play left. And I think that's a great way to, you know, bookend your career is about impact. You know, you've had all the success and winning and you'll probably still win and succeed. But I think from you going through the healing journey, you know, starting a little, almost a decade ago, and finishing your career, whatever that is, being about impact and service, I think is going to be even more healing for you.

• 1:04:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  On this process, whether it's one season or five, or whatever you choose to do. So I'm excited to watch, man. I'm excited to see your journey. And if I can serve in any way, please let me know.

• 1:04:39Speaker 00

  I appreciate it.

• 1:04:40Lewis Howes?

  But I'm very excited about this. I have two final questions for you before I ask them. I want people to follow you on social media and check out your fund.

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:04:51Lewis Howes?

  Of the foundation. Can you share more about this and what this is all about?

• 1:04:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, Kevin Love Fund is kevinlovefund.org. Of course, you can find me on, just look for the memes.

• 1:05:02Lewis Howes?

  Kevin Love everywhere on social media.

• 1:05:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, just, yeah, look for the, look for the memes and you'll find me, but.

• 1:05:07Lewis Howes?

  But the Kevin Love Fund, why did you want to start this and who's it about serving?

• 1:05:12Speaker 00

  So I think it all started after the 2017 pandemic attack. And we started the fund with, you know, just the hopes of impacting people as we could, both. Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically. And you know, what I kept finding myself asking.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  I kept asking myself and others kept asking me like, what would you tell your 15 year old self? Or what, you know, what, what do you wish you could, you know, talking about like that five year old giving the hug? You know, what do you wish that you could tell that person? I thought, you know, what I didn't have was the emotional language in order to be able to express myself in a, in a healthy way. Maybe especially as a young man and a young boy. So I thought, you know, what if there's a, a way to implement education? And where it, it isn't just the spoken word or isn't just language that we can help kids create.

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  You know, a very healthy way of, of being able to express themselves if they don't have that. So we had started a curriculum, Kevin Love started a curriculum that is based around vulnerable. Vulnerability and social emotional learning. And we started it in the classroom with the teachers showing what that looked like. And then among their peers, there was, you know, many different, up to a dozen to, to, to, to first, when we first started.

• 1:06:39Speaker 00

  Different lesson programs and lesson plans that we started with kids on how to, you know, show what they were going through their, tell their story or tell a story with somebody going through something at, at arm's distance. So it was, you know, creative writing, it was poetry, it was photography, it was music, certain things like that. And we've worked with many different great people that have showed us how, you know, they have done it along the way. And we partner with people like Sony and we work with Steph Curry and the GOAT. And animation has a really cool way of being able to show true emotions. And sometimes it's hiding in plain sight. We worked with the Spider's, Spider verse, we did a short with them and Miles Morales. And so they've been a, a great partner in that. But we just continue to, you know, evolve the, the curriculum.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  And we have something coming up in May where it's based around friendship. So we, we, we talked about that as well and we're leaning into relationships, how they impact everyone, healthy relationships moving forward and.

• 1:07:35Speaker 00

  And finding your tribe and

• 1:07:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  You know, making sure that you find that in a healthy way to combat any sort of thing that you're feeling.

• 1:07:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, the thing you got coming out in May, May 1st is called the Friend Effect is what I'm reading here. Creating community and building positive relationships. And it's a new free mental health lesson that's available for educators, school counselors and coaches nationwide. And so it's starting on May 1st, first day of mental health awareness month. And it's available for immediate access at kevinlovefund.org. So I recommend people going and checking that out. You know, I wish we had stuff growing up where we could just express ourselves in a safe environment without the other guys making fun of us.

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:08:20Lewis Howes?

  It really affects a young boy's psyche when they just, and it's not their, the other kids' fault. They didn't know how to receive, you know, this emotions or this communication or someone putting their arm around them. They didn't know how to respond either. So I don't blame other kids, like we're all kind of at fault for this. But we just never had a place to, to share our voice of like our concerns without being told, shut up, suck it up. Like stop crying, don't be a little baby, whatever it is that we all experience, especially as young men. To not express emotion. And it's counterintuitive to being successful in sports.

• 1:08:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Lewis Howes?

  Showing weakness, showing emotion, showing them you're tired, whatever it is, like you can't show any of that. Just be a man, you know, it's like, how do you do that at eight years old? It's, it's impossible.

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  It is impossible and like, you know, the, it's funny because like on the other side of that, you're, you're, you're paying for it now.

• 1:09:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh yeah, you pay a big price.

• 1:09:16Speaker 00

  You pay a big price.

• 1:09:16Lewis Howes?

  Rest of your life, all your relationships suffer after that.

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:09:19Lewis Howes?

  Every relationship.

• 1:09:21Speaker 00

  Like what do we always say, right? Like you gotta put your own oxygen mask on first.

• 1:09:24Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:09:24Speaker 00

  If you don't, if you don't have that intervention early enough, and that's why, you know, we work on this at the fund. It's like you, you, you need some safe space. And why not have it be around your peers and not having to go down the hallway, not having to do it at home.

• 1:09:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:40Speaker 00

  And you know, the, the more people that share, the more of, you know, a tribe and a community you create. And we've seen it work at a very high level.

• 1:09:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:49Speaker 00

  So very, very proud of that, very proud of the work we're doing. And yeah, the focus on friendship is

• 1:09:54Lewis Howes?

  That's great, man.

• 1:09:54Speaker 00

  It's fun finding your tribe, yeah.

• 1:09:56Lewis Howes?

  I want people to check it out, kevinlovefund.org. You can also go there and make a donation. School of Greatness is making a donation as well because we believe in, you know, We really donate to a lot of youth programs and kids' education. And for me, emotional intelligence and healing is the most important thing we can all invest in. So I'm really glad you're doing this, man. Make sure to check out at Kevin Love on social media to see where he's going next in his

• 1:10:23Speaker 00

  There we go.

• 1:10:24Lewis Howes?

  career as well. We'll all see where that's happening hopefully soon. The two final questions I have for you, this one is called the three truths. And it's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live in this life. And you get to create and accomplish everything. You get to end your career as an NBA player the way you want to and build a life the way you want to after that. But for whatever reason, on your last day, many years away,

• 1:10:52Lewis Howes?

  you have to take all of your work with you. So this conversation, people don't have access to. Anything you share publicly, anything you create, it has to go with you to the next place. No one has access to your content anymore. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three final truths, which would be your personal lessons of life. What do you think going into the future would be those three truths for you that you would leave behind?

• 1:11:16Speaker 00

  I think honestly, it's like the things we don't say.

• 1:11:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:18Speaker 00

  If we hold on to that, it's going to manifest or come out in some sort of way. And more often than not, I feel like it's not going to be good. So like

• 1:11:25Lewis Howes?

  It's not healthy.

• 1:11:26Speaker 00

  It just, you know, again, and that doesn't have to be verbalized. It's just like I was saying at the fun, there's different ways in order, ways to do that. So that's like the things we don't say. Things one are done, joy's soul lies in the doing, set out to do.

• 1:11:43Speaker 00

  And try to live your life relentlessly curious without fear of prejudice.

• 1:11:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's great. You had those a lock. That was like clear for you. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:11:56Speaker 00

  I think, you know, I always use the term and it's not mine. It's just something that I've tried to adopt and.

• 1:12:04Speaker 00

  Gear my life towards, and I'm not perfect. I especially after the season, I'm like, I'm just gonna eat what I want and drink wine. And like, I don't care for 10 days, whatever it is. But you know, discipline is deciding between what you want now and what you want most. So, and I think discipline is the path to greatness. Like I've had to, you know, change my diet, change how I take care of my body, uh, be more disciplined in my relationships, sleep better. The list goes on and on and all of that is the, the destiny is all through that, that discipline. I know that like Ryan Holiday, discipline is destiny, right? Like I, I truly believe that, but I think deciding between what you know now, what you want most, I think that is, that is the path.

• 1:12:48Speaker 00

  And that might be the definition, but that is certainly the path to where you want to go is all through discipline.

• 1:12:54Lewis Howes?

  Kevin Love, my man.

• 1:12:55Speaker 00

  Appreciate you. Powerful, man. Wow.

• 1:12:57Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:13:41Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.