Why 80% Of Relationships Don't Work & How To Fix Them [MASTERCLASS] EP 1393

https://lewishowes.com/mindset - Order a copy of my new book The Greatness Mindset today! In today’s masterclass, four relationship experts share why 80% of relationships fail and how you can turn breakdown into breakthrough in all of your relationships. In this episode, you will learn:Esther Perel, Psychotherapist & Best-selling Author, explains how to have healthier relationships and create a new foundations for meaningful love. Gary John Bishop, New York Times Best-selling Author, shares his secret on how to thrive in a relationship and maintaining long lasting love for decades. Jillian Turecki, Certified Relationship Coach & Podcast Host, goes through the biggest relationship mistakes to avoid and how we can be accountable for our actions in our relationships. Eric Barker, Best-selling Author, “Plays Well With Others”, explains the key to finding true love and how to express our emotions in a healthy way. For more go to www.lewishowes.com/1393Full Episodes:Esther PerelGary John BishopJillian TureckiEric Barker Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so if you haven't heard the news yet, I've got a new book out called The Greatness Mindset: Unlock the Power of Your Mind and Live Your Best Life Today. It's coming out soon, and I'm pumped to invite you to be a part of the launch team for this book. This is a rare opportunity to get your questions answered and network with other champions of greatness in this exclusive community of conscious achievers. If you're ready to receive early access to the first few chapters of the book, behind-the-scenes updates from me, plus VIP access to bonuses and giveaways, then this is for you for instructions about how to join this greatness launch team. Make sure to go to lewishouse.com/launchteam right now. Again, make sure to check it out

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  at lewishouse.com/launchteam right now.

• 0:49Esther Perel?

  There is no one and only. There is one person that you choose at a certain moment in time, and with that person, you try to create the most beautiful relationship you can. The next thing that changed culturally, if you want to really take on the big myths, it's the notion that-

• 1:04Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:28Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

• 1:46Lewis Howes?

  How do you feel like people could set up for a healthier relationship as opposed to... What would you recommend or suggest them for people in order to have a healthier foundation? Seeing that it seems so sexualized now. Everything seems so like physical swiping, looking at someone's sexual identity, attraction, as opposed to, I guess, true intimacy and connection. How would you set up a relationship now?

• 2:12Esther Perel?

  There's so many different pieces to this. I think the first thing, look, I am right about sexuality. I'm not going to minimize it, but I do understand that, you know, it's very important. It's a beautiful thing to have a powerful erotic connection with someone. But don't confuse the metaphors. You can have a beautiful erotic connections with someone and that does not necessarily translate into a life experience.

• 2:39Lewis Howes?

  Right, a life story.

• 2:40Esther Perel?

  A life story. That said, the next thing that changed culturally, if you want to really take on the big myths, it's the notion that we are looking for the one and only.

• 2:51Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:52Esther Perel?

  The one and only, my soulmate.

• 2:56Lewis Howes?

  It's my everything.

• 2:57Esther Perel?

  Yes, my everything. Your soulmate used to be God, not a person. You know, the one and only was the divine. And with this one and only today, I want to experience wholeness and ecstasy and meaning and transcendence. And I'm gonna wait 10 more years. We are waiting 10 years longer to settle with someone, to make a commitment to someone, for those of us who choose a someone. And if I'm gonna wait longer and if I'm looking around and if I'm choosing among a thousand people at my fingertips, you bet that the one who's gonna capture my attention is gonna make me delete my apps better be the one and only.

• 3:36Esther Perel?

  So, in a period of proliferation of choices, we at the same time have an ascension of expectations about a romantic relationship that is unprecedented. We have never expected so much of our romantic relationships as we do today in the West.

• 3:52Lewis Howes?

  It seems like a lot of pressure.

• 3:53Esther Perel?

  It's an enormous amount of pressure. We crumble under the weight of these expectations because a community cannot become a tribe of two. This is a party of two. And with you and me together, we are going to create... Best friends, romantic partners, lovers, confidants, parents, intellectual eagles.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  Business partners.

• 4:14Esther Perel?

  Business partners, career coaches, I mean, you name it. And I'm like, seriously? One person for everything? One person instead of a whole village? So that's the first myth. And the notion of unconditional love that accompanies this is that when I have that one and only, I have what you call clarity, but translated into certainty, peace, and freedom, you know? Or safety, which is the other side of the same thing. So that's, that to me is if you want to set yourself up, really, the idea that you're going to find one person for everything is a myth. Keep a community around you.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 4:55Esther Perel?

  Keep a set of deep friendships. Really deep friendships, deep intimacies with friends, with mentors, with family members, with colleagues, you know? So that's the first thing for me in having good relationships is diversify.

• 5:15Lewis Howes?

  Diversify relationships, but not sexually.

• 5:18Esther Perel?

  No, no, for some people it will include that, for the vast majority it won't. But the notion that there isn't a one person for everything, and that that doesn't mean that there is a problem in your relationship when that happens. The second thing is stop constantly looking at people as a product, where you evaluate them and you evaluate yourself. You know, in our market economy, everything has become a product, we include it. And so, love seems to have become the moment that the evaluation of the product stops. You have finally been approved, when you have been chosen and when you choose. This is Eva Illus, a sociologist who writes about this very beautifully. It's like, love finally becomes the moment you can experience peace.

• 6:02Esther Perel?

  You're no longer looking, selling yourself, proving yourself, trying to capture somebody's attention. It's exhausting. And once you are in that mentality, you also are continuously looking for the best product. You never say, you know, how can I meet a person who? People don't often talk about how can I be a person who

• 6:23Lewis Howes?

  That's so true.

• 6:25Esther Perel?

  Okay, so it's what you're looking for in the market economy of romantic love, rather than who are you? How do you show up? What do you bring? What responsibility do you take? How generous are you, etcetera?

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 6:37Esther Perel?

  Second thing, for what I think sets you up for a better relationship. And the third thing is understand some of the things that are really important to you. And don't get involved with someone on the hope that some things will change.

• 6:54Lewis Howes?

  Do things ever change with a partner that you want to change?

• 6:57Esther Perel?

  Yes, things do change a lot. I mean, lot in, many different things can occur in a relationship, but it's different from I'm coming in here

• 7:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:10Esther Perel?

  to to turn things around, you know? Because so much of us wants the experience of acceptance. So

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 7:18Esther Perel?

  With acceptance, I would say this, another thing to prepare yourself. You can love a person wholly, W H O L L Y, without having to love all of them.

• 7:35Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean by that?

• 7:36Esther Perel?

  It means that the notion of unconditional love is a myth.

• 7:42Esther Perel?

  Adult love lives in the realm of ambivalence, which means that relational ambivalence is part and parcel of all our relationships. We have it with our parents, our siblings, our friends, which means that we continuously have to integrate contradictory feelings and thoughts between love and hate, between excitement and fear, between envy and contempt, between boredom and aliveness. It's, you continuously negotiate these contradictions. That ambivalence and living with that ambivalence is actually a sign of maturity, rather than continuously then evaluating. See, in the beginning, you evaluate, is this the right one?

• 8:26Esther Perel?

  Is this the one and only? Is this the, then it becomes, shall I stay or shall I go? ¿Cómo sé que he encontrado la una? ¿Es la relación premarital o la pre compromiso? Y luego después se convierte en: ¿Es suficientemente bueno? Continuamos continuamente con las evaluaciones, ¿verdad? ¿Es suficientemente bueno? ¿O cuán feliz estoy? ¿Estoy feliz lo suficiente? Así que ese es el amor incondicional. No, vivimos ambivalencia en nuestras relaciones. Hay periodos en los que pensamos: ¿Cómo sería la vida en otro lugar? Y luego volvemos. Y luego decimos: "No puedo imaginarlo sin ella". Esto es lo que he elegido. Estoy bueno aquí. Pero es una conversación. La idea de que serás aceptado incondicionalmente es un sueño que tenemos para nuestros padres cuando somos bebés.

• 9:10Esther Perel?

  No es parte del amor adulto.

• 9:12Lewis Howes?

  Correcto. Así que el amor incondicional no es algo que podemos esperar.

• 9:16Esther Perel?

  El amor incondicional es un mito. Así que la única y única es un mito. Me preguntaste cómo nos ponemos a nosotros mismos para las relaciones de frente. No hay una y única. Hay una persona que eliges en un momento determinado en el tiempo y con esa persona tratas de crear la relación más hermosa que puedas. Pero podrías haberlo hecho con otros. El tiempo está involucrado, muchas cosas están involucradas. Así que no hay una y única.

• 9:42Lewis Howes?

  ¿No hay un alma?

• 9:43Esther Perel?

  La alma es Dios. Puedes pensar que tienes una conexión alma con alguien, que tienes una profunda, profunda reunión de las mentes, de las almas, del corazón, de los cuerpos. Pero es una metáfora. No es una persona. Es la calidad de una experiencia que se siente como alma. Eso es el segundo. El tercer, no hay amor incondicional. Vivimos ambivalencia en nuestras relaciones de amor más profundo. Hay cosas que nos gustan y cosas que no. Y cosas que nos gustan sobre nosotros y cosas que no. Y momentos que no pueden... No pueden estar sin nosotros y momentos en los que desearían que por casualidad pudieran estar alejados de nosotros. Y eso es normal. El cuarto... The happiness mandate.

• 10:27Esther Perel?

  Continuously evaluating how happy I am. You know, if you continuously pursue happiness, you're miserable a lot of the time.

• 10:35Lewis Howes?

  What should we pursue instead?

• 10:37Esther Perel?

  We pursue integrity, depth, joy, aliveness, connection, growth. Those things that ultimately make us say, I feel good, I'm happy about this. But I don't pursue happiness. Happiness is the consequence of a lot of things you put in. You pursue caring for someone, having their back, feeling they have your back, wanting the best for them, what the Poli people call compersion. You know, those things you can pursue.

• 11:08Lewis Howes?

  Compersion, what's compersion?

• 11:09Esther Perel?

  Compersion is feeling joy for the happiness of the other person.

• 11:14Lewis Howes?

  Is this polyamory relationships?

• 11:15Esther Perel?

  It's a concept that is...

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  Where it's like they're with another sexual partner?

• 11:18Esther Perel?

  But I think the world is bigger than just, you know, contained within the Poli community and culture. It is the notion that you want good for the other person, even when it doesn't have to do with you.

• 11:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:30Esther Perel?

  You're proud of them, you admire them, you enjoy their growth, their successes, you know.

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  What about when someone says, you know, I'm with this person, they make me happy? What does that happen when you're looking for someone to make you happy in the relationship?

• 11:46Esther Perel?

  Well, the day they don't, you will say, they make me unhappy. Or they don't make me happy, but it's they, they do to me. I'm the recipient of what they do. They have the power. They can give, they can withhold. I depend, I crave, I long, I yearn, I respond to them.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  And what should we be thinking of instead of this person makes me happy? How should we, how should we approach that?

• 12:16Esther Perel?

  We give each other.

• 12:19Esther Perel?

  A good foundation from which we can each launch into our respective worlds.

• 12:24Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 12:26Esther Perel?

  A home is a foundation with wings. Or I like to think a good relationship is a foundation with wings. So you feel the stability that you need, the security, the safety, the predictability as much as you can, as much as our life allows us. And at the same time, you have the wings to go and explore, discover, be curious, be in the world, sometimes together and sometimes apart.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  What do you think happens when people are in a relationship? And let's say they're together for a year, a couple of years. And they decide, okay, we want to get married. But maybe one or two, each of the individuals don't accept something fully about the other person. Maybe there's like three things that they really don't like or don't accept.

• 13:17Esther Perel?

  Like what?

• 13:17Lewis Howes?

  Or wish they changed.

• 13:18Esther Perel?

  Depends what?

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I don't know, I'm just trying to think of something where you're like, I love so much. We have this great connection. We have so much fun and we're growing and building a relationship. But behind their back, you're telling your girlfriend or your guy friends, I wish they'd changed this, this, or this. I don't like this thing. I don't like this thing.

• 13:34Esther Perel?

  That's ambivalence.

• 13:36Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 13:37Esther Perel?

  Meaning that you have to be able to live with the contradictory thoughts and feelings of what you like and what you don't like. What makes you want to be here and what makes you not want to be here.

• 13:48Lewis Howes?

  What happens when we don't accept that, though? And we, and we like, you know, hopefully they'll change out of this or grow out of this thing that I don't like about them. What happens when we're in that space?

• 13:58Esther Perel?

  That means that when you get married, you're not just making a deal with your partner, you're making a secret deal with yourself that this is going to change. And then when it doesn't, you get very upset or pissed because your deal with yourself, which you never said out loud, it's a private bargain you do with yourself. And all of us, when we pick someone, make private bargains with ourselves too. And it's often that bargain that is broken more than the one, because the partner never promised you that this would change.

• 14:25Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And so it just creates more resentment. When we want something to change, we don't accept them.

• 14:31Esther Perel?

  Expectations are resentment in the make.

• 14:33Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 14:34Esther Perel?

  The more expectations you have, the more things you can be disappointed of afterwards.

• 14:39Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:39Esther Perel?

  Especially when they're not articulated. I think what you need to know is what are some of the things? If you are with someone who, if you, if you go back to the erotic connection, if you're with someone with whom you have a very difficult erotic connection, and you know that this is something that really is important to you, being seen, being touched, being held, being kissed, being stroked, being made love to, is really a language that is very important to you, and you don't want to live without it, then listen to yourself.

• 15:10Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:12Esther Perel?

  If it's not an important part for you, because that is not the way you express yourself most, then, then you know that this is not the centerpiece of your relationship. You have other things that you share. If you know that you don't want children, or the reverse, that the other person doesn't want children, don't go in there hoping that they're gonna change your mind, their mind. Because that is not fair to you nor to them.

• 15:38Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:39Esther Perel?

  If you are with someone who says, "I do not want to marry", and you do, or if you are with someone who says, "I see love plural. I do not see myself just with one partner", and this is clear to you that that's not okay, or that you want it differently, listen to yourself. Those are values that involve life decisions, that you don't sit there waiting till they're gonna catch up with you.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  And what happens when our, when two people's values are not in alignment?

• 16:11Esther Perel?

  It, it.

• 16:12Lewis Howes?

  Can they still have a beautiful life story? Or do you feel like there's always gonna be some type of unnecessary struggle?

• 16:17Esther Perel?

  No, I think it depends on the degree to which people can live with what we call a sense of differentiation. Meaning, if I am okay wanting to go to church, and that's not part of what you do. We come from the same faith, or we come from different religions. And one of us wants to adhere to their tradition and wants to participate in the practices of their religion. And it's okay doing it without the other.

• 16:47Esther Perel?

  Doesn't feel that that needs to be shared. Doesn't experience every time they sit in church, I wish you were sitting next to me. Why do I have to come here alone all the time? You know, I, I, that.

• 16:58Lewis Howes?

  So it's accepting someone's choices.

• 16:59Esther Perel?

  It's, it's, it's, it's accepting that your choice, if you practice it, you can accept to do it without your partner.

• 17:10Lewis Howes?

  So it's you accepting that?

• 17:11Esther Perel?

  It's you accepting it. Of course, the other person, but the other person can often tell you, you go if you like to be there. I don't want to go there on Sunday morning, I have other things to do with my time.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 17:20Esther Perel?

  Okay? Religion is a major one on that, travel is another one on that, children, work, etc.

• 17:25Lewis Howes?

  Family in long term.

• 17:26Esther Perel?

  It's difficult to say to someone, I'll have a child alone, you don't have to participate. But it is easier to say, I will continue to practice my religion because it is central to me. You don't have to be a part of that, we have other things that we will share. But you need to know to do that and feel okay about it. If all the time, now, that doesn't mean that on occasion you don't miss and you wish your partner, there's a great sermon, I so wish you had been there to hear it, great. But if it's chronic and you just feel this hole all the time, and, and you know from the beginning that it is a unifier for you, and your partner is, and your partner doesn't show curiosity, because you can come from something else and say, I'm interested in this, let me, let me see what this is.

• 18:11Esther Perel?

  If you want to go back to living in your home country, and your partner has zero intention of leaving where they are, listen to them. Don't hope. If they tell you, yes, I would like that at some point, then listen carefully, if they're saying this to pacify you, if they're saying this to make sure that you don't leave them, or if they truly intend to do this at some time.

• 18:35Lewis Howes?

  And don't hope something's gonna change, don't hope they're gonna do something later, after you get married or in an intimate relationship.

• 18:40Esther Perel?

  No, start from the place that it's not gonna happen. See how it is for you.

• 18:44Lewis Howes?

  Can you accept that?

• 18:45Esther Perel?

  Can you accept that? Then, if things change, all the better. But don't start with the hope that it will be different.

• 18:53Lewis Howes?

  Right. And how does jealousy play in relationships? I used to be extremely jealous and insecure.

• 19:00Esther Perel?

  I remember that.

• 19:01Lewis Howes?

  And then something switched in me, I don't know, five years ago. Six years ago, maybe somewhere around that time where I was like, you know what? This does not support me or my relationship at all. This jealous nature or this.

• 19:15Esther Perel?

  That you knew even when you were jealous.

• 19:17Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, I knew, but I couldn't, I couldn't let it go though.

• 19:20Esther Perel?

  Right, so it's not what you said to yourself that changed what you experienced.

• 19:23Lewis Howes?

  Something changed, yeah, I don't know exactly what it was, but I remember just being like, I'm tired of this. I'm tired of feeling this way.

• 19:28Esther Perel?

  So what did you change? Not what did you say to yourself?

• 19:32Lewis Howes?

  I think I changed fully accepting the person's decisions and lifestyle and what they were doing and trusting that everything was gonna be okay. And not needing to be jealous. I think I was just afraid like, are they talking to some guy or some, you know, is there something behind my back that they're doing? I don't know. It was a worry of like an anxiousness, right?

• 19:54Esther Perel?

  So.

• 19:55Lewis Howes?

  And so I was just like.

• 19:57Esther Perel?

  Wait, wait, wait.

• 19:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 19:59Esther Perel?

  Part of what accompanies jealousy, you know, jealousy starts at one and a half year old.

• 20:04Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 20:05Esther Perel?

  It's not an early emotion.

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, interesting.

• 20:07Esther Perel?

  It needs a sense of self first. It needs the beginning of self-awareness as a baby to be able to experience jealousy. It's not like fear and joy and disgust and sadness.

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  So where does it come from? What is?

• 20:23Esther Perel?

  Where it comes from and how evolutionary psychology has all kinds of explanations for jealousy. But where it comes from interpersonally is that it requires having a sense of who you are before you begin to experience how you respond to what other people are doing. I want that too.

• 20:39Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:40Esther Perel?

  I don't, you know, I don't wanna lose something.

• 20:45Lewis Howes?

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• 21:28Lewis Howes?

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• 21:49Esther Perel?

  What changed for you is that you became more confident.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Esther Perel?

  You felt less that your sense of self-worth is in the hands of the other person. And that in they turned away from you, that means that you are not enough.

• 22:02Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 22:02Esther Perel?

  That you're gonna lose them or that they're gonna leave you. That's what changed.

• 22:06Lewis Howes?

  And then I'd be like hurt or empty or sad or in pain because of their actions. And I think that's 100%. I think I didn't feel like I was good enough or something where else it's like, you know what? It's all gonna be okay. You know, if they do something or.

• 22:21Esther Perel?

  But this, it's all gonna be okay, followed in different sense of yourself.

• 22:26Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 22:27Esther Perel?

  Where you were less in a panic, less in the grip of they're gonna abandon me and I'm not good enough. And from that place, you began to see it's okay. Nothing bad is gonna happen to me. That's how we diminish jealousy. It's not how we react to what the other person does. It's how we feel about ourselves that changes how we react about what the other person does.

• 22:55Lewis Howes?

  What do you see is the difference maker for healthy, long-lasting love?

• 23:00Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 23:00Lewis Howes?

  For decades versus those that stay married a long time but aren't happy?

• 23:05Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 23:05Lewis Howes?

  And those that eventually get divorced?

• 23:07Gary John Bishop?

  I think the statistics are something like 50%, right? So 50% of all marriages end in divorce. The, the illusion is, is that the 50% that are left are happy.

• 23:16Lewis Howes?

  No, they're not.

• 23:16Gary John Bishop?

  No, they're not, right?

• 23:18Lewis Howes?

  Maybe 15% or something.

• 23:19Gary John Bishop?

  Maybe, right? And we don't really know. I mean, like if you went and polled everybody, you might be even shocked.

• 23:24Lewis Howes?

  It's 5% or something.

• 23:26Gary John Bishop?

  Maybe, right?

• 23:26Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, why are they so challenging to, to, to be healthy and happy long-term for so many people?

• 23:31Gary John Bishop?

  Well, I think part of the deal is the bar's very low. So the bar's something like we get along. Like that's it. I've got T-shirts I get along with.

• 23:39Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:41Gary John Bishop?

  So then what's it really all about? If that's the struggle, if the struggle is to get along, like I said, that's a very low bar.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  You get along with lots of people.

• 23:51Gary John Bishop?

  Right, right. I mean, I get along with a person who, you know, makes my coffee at Starbucks, right? You know, I mean, but really what I've found to be the case, and it's not, I'm not looking at like particular people for examples, right? But I'm gonna look at like what keeps a human being involved in anything, right? So like, why does somebody, like, so I love to play guitar. Why? Right? Why? Because I engage with that thing, I'm curious about that thing. I wanna get better at that thing. I like how it feels when I accomplish something in that thing. If you take that in any aspect of your life, the same thing holds true. So my relationship with my wife is a function of who I am in it. And I need to keep bringing that to it.

• 24:35Gary John Bishop?

  That's, there's no time when this is a done deal. You know, I have to keep showing up here, not for like, for longevity, which is I think where a lot of people get messed up. People look at the relationship, like, well, I can't do this for the rest of your life, rest of my life. And I'm like, well, you don't have to.

• 24:50Lewis Howes?

  Just do it today.

• 24:51Gary John Bishop?

  Right. Like, right. It's like being on a diet. I don't need to go on a diet for three months, I just need to be on it right now.

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:56Gary John Bishop?

  And it is moment to moment to moment to moment to moment, because that's really all you have. But so what I do notice is that the areas of life where you are flourishing most, there is some profound relationship you have between what you say and what you do. There's a profundity at play. So if you look at any area you're successful, you are literally doing what you said you would do, even when what, I don't feel like it.

• 25:27Gary John Bishop?

  Right. Marriage is the same. Marriage is the same. Marriage, and I talk about this in the book, I say, especially in the western world, but you look at, and I'm using marriage as kind of a model, but applies to all relationships.

• 25:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 25:41Gary John Bishop?

  But in a marriage, there's this ceremony, there's this coming together.

• 25:44Lewis Howes?

  Or you make an agreement, a commitment.

• 25:46Gary John Bishop?

  Very good.

• 25:47Lewis Howes?

  And you use words.

• 25:48Gary John Bishop?

  And it's a vow.

• 25:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 25:49Gary John Bishop?

  Right. And, and I talk about the bankruptcy of the vow in a marriage, because nobody vows anything anymore.

• 25:55Lewis Howes?

  Or they vow it, but they don't live up to the...

• 25:56Gary John Bishop?

  Well, because they don't have a relationship to a vow. So we're not going around our life going, "I vowed to meet you at three o'clock."

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 26:03Gary John Bishop?

  Right, nobody's saying that. But 200 years ago, when you vowed something, the American Declaration of Independence is just people vowing. They brought something in the existence on the strength of what they said.

• 26:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 26:16Gary John Bishop?

  There was no fighting. Well, there was some fighting. But they created a nation from words.

• 26:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:23Gary John Bishop?

  Right. I mean, that's what that is. That's like, well, it was a declaration, right? We have declared we're independent. "What would you mean, you're independent?" Well, we just declared it, so we are.

• 26:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:32Gary John Bishop?

  And we vow our lives and our sacred honor. And most of those people gave, literally gave their life for that. They literally gave their life to that promise. I bet they were scared.

• 26:45Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 26:46Gary John Bishop?

  I bet they were intimidated. But their word was greater than that experience of themselves. That's the same in any area of your life. You have to start realizing that what you say is a big deal. And what you say to yourself is a big deal. A lifetime of constantly bending, shaping, and breaking your word to yourself will leave you with a diminished relationship to you. You'll never do great things because somewhere in there, you think you're full of it. Because you've broken your word to yourself so many times.

• 27:17Lewis Howes?

  You're out of integrity with yourself.

• 27:18Gary John Bishop?

  Very good. There's no, there's no power to those words anymore.

• 27:21Lewis Howes?

  What happens when we are out of integrity so consistently with ourself, or even one time with our word? What happens to us?

• 27:27Gary John Bishop?

  Well, I mean, you gotta start relating to what you say like it's important.

• 27:32Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:33Gary John Bishop?

  Just like it's important. Stop there. Like, I said I was gonna, and this is important, not because the thing's important, but what's, what I said to myself and my relationship to that thing.

• 27:47Gary John Bishop?

  Is what's important.

• 27:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:48Gary John Bishop?

  So, any area in life, like I said earlier, where you're powerful or successful, you'll see you have a very strong relationship to what you said, very strong one. Sometimes.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  You're committed to that thing.

• 27:59Gary John Bishop?

  There's just no question for you. Like, it's on like Donkey Kong, you know, you're just doing it.

• 28:04Lewis Howes?

  Why is it easier in some areas of life than it is in others to be consistent with what you say?

• 28:09Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 28:09Lewis Howes?

  And what you wanna do.

• 28:10Gary John Bishop?

  Right, and that's eventually, it's great that you can put it that way because that's the path you'll follow.

• 28:15Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 28:16Gary John Bishop?

  But the real strength of you is when you can say something, like for instance, when I was in my mid 40s, you know, I said, "I'm gonna produce authentic wealth."

• 28:28Lewis Howes?

  What's the difference between authentic and inauthentic?

• 28:30Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah, I'm doing it for that, not for anything about me.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:34Gary John Bishop?

  Which was wild for me because everything up to that point about money was all about fixing something about me or my life. And I was just doing it to see if I could do it, which I'd never done before. And I'd never fully given it that attention, like, just for that. And so I put a number on it, which was a crazy number for that time in my life, like crazy number, like.

• 28:57Lewis Howes?

  For your 40s or what, how much you wanna make?

• 28:58Gary John Bishop?

  I was 45, yeah, and I said, "I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna use my 50s for that, and I'm gonna produce it." Right? I produced it by the time I was 52, and I only really started when I was 48. So I did it really fast.

• 29:13Lewis Howes?

  The amount of money that you wanted to make?

• 29:14Gary John Bishop?

  The amount of money that I said, but it was wild because I had no attachment to it.

• 29:19Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean?

• 29:19Gary John Bishop?

  Like, there was no emotion in it for me, there was no desperation, no, like, "I gotta do it," and no burning. It was just like, "I said I was gonna do it, and I'm doing it."

• 29:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:28Gary John Bishop?

  And so I ended up with this really kind of flat relationship between my words and my actions. Like, it was flat, like, there were days when I felt like doing it, and there were days when I didn't feel like doing it. But the interesting thing for me was, when I declared it, when I said I was gonna do it, like, the Declaration of Independence, I had no idea how I was gonna do something like that.

• 29:48Lewis Howes?

  You didn't know, you're just different.

• 29:49Gary John Bishop?

  Like, I don't know how you even, I'm not a money guy, you know, I'm not. But now it's game on because I created the top of the mountain in my speaking. So I spoke the top of the mountain in the existence.

• 30:01Lewis Howes?

  And then you figured out how along the way.

• 30:03Gary John Bishop?

  But that's now the game now. The game, people say, "Well, you know, how do you even do such a thing?" Well, that's the first question. How do you even do such a thing, you know? And you might have to engage with that question for two years, or three years or four years, but you've got to be actively resolving some of that stuff for yourself. Well, it's the same in love. Like, I'm committed to the most loving, passionate and adventurous relationship that's possible. That's the top of the mountain. The top of the mountain speaks to me every day. It's, I can tell whether I'm walking that path or not. That influences this. It's not even necessarily about that. It's more about what that does with this. Well, how does that shape me today?

• 30:48Gary John Bishop?

  How does that, am I lining up with what I said or not? And if I'm not, I might have a lot of reasons, excuses and justifications for that, but at the same time, am I gonna treat that like it matters to me? Or am I gonna just be like, well, you know, so far so good, or it's been a tough week, or, you know, there's a lot in my mind? Or, you know, are you being a jerk? Why am I loving with you? Because I said I would. And that's what matters to me. That's what matters, that I said I would matters to me.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  Someone once told me that the key to his success in relationships was eighty percent of it was who you choose.

• 31:29Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Lewis Howes?

  Eighty percent of the relationship's success is, you know, how you match well with the person you're choosing.

• 31:34Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Lewis Howes?

  You only spent, I guess, a year with the person that you chose.

• 31:38Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  Did you know that when you were choosing this person? Did you were like, okay, I feel like we're gonna be in a great alignment with our values and our vision?

• 31:45Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 31:46Lewis Howes?

  Our lifestyle? Or was it more of just a feeling that you felt connected to this person and you decided?

• 31:51Gary John Bishop?

  I did what everybody does, right? What everybody does is they get in a relationship because they feel as if this person resolves something about themselves.

• 31:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:59Gary John Bishop?

  That's what I did. And so there was something about this woman that I thought, wow, like being with her, everything seems right. Like I feel good about me.

• 32:09Lewis Howes?

  I didn't feel good until I met her.

• 32:11Gary John Bishop?

  Right, like there's something getting fixed here. So no, I'm not that pragmatic.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:17Gary John Bishop?

  And I think most people aren't that pragmatic. And I think there's an illusion out there that somehow you'll find the one.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:24Gary John Bishop?

  And really, I feel as if the job is to explore what's possible between you and this person. Whoever that person is, and their potential and your potential. And so it was less about having, like finding something that matched up with me, which I don't know if that would work for me. Might work for some people, but I don't know if that would work for me. What was really captivating for me at the time was being with her had me feel a lot better about me. And I think I really fundamentally believe that that's what most people go into relationships for.

• 32:57Lewis Howes?

  Is that the right thing to look at, or is it?

• 32:59Gary John Bishop?

  No, that's an absolute.

• 33:00Lewis Howes?

  It's a recipe. Yeah, it's a complete. Relying on that person to make you happier.

• 33:04Gary John Bishop?

  Well, because whatever that thing is that they satisfy for you is something you haven't sorted out for yourself yet.

• 33:09Lewis Howes?

  Right. So eventually you're gonna have to do that. Otherwise, you're always needing that from someone else.

• 33:15Gary John Bishop?

  Right. So you go in there and they're the solution. And you end it with the notion that they were the problem.

• 33:22Lewis Howes?

  Ah, wow.

• 33:25Gary John Bishop?

  And what's consistent in all of that is you.

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:28Gary John Bishop?

  I mean, I don't know if anybody's ever noticed this, but in every crappy relationship you've ever had, it's got one common denominator.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  That's you.

• 33:35Gary John Bishop?

  Right. It's always you.

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  This is a big awakening I had after my previous relationship ended. I was like, man, it's been 10, 15 years of relationships that, that, that started and then that crumbled in some way or that fell apart. And the core of all those things was me.

• 33:52Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 33:52Lewis Howes?

  Was my choices, was my getting into attracting those relationships, was this commitment to those relationships, was the unwinding of those relationships. And so why was I choosing these types of relationships? What was unresolved within me that I get to take a look at now? Keep repeating in this pattern until I address the thing inside of me.

• 34:15Gary John Bishop?

  Right. So what's great about your kind of pathway, if you like, you can't, first of all, you've got to be able to look at that distinct from blame, right? I know, I know a lot of people just heard what you said and thought, well, but what if it is them? Right? I know a lot of people, people sitting there right now going, dang, I did say that to myself. And I say, well, if you take away like who's to blame.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 34:38Gary John Bishop?

  And so sometimes people say stuff like, why do I keep attracting these kinds of people? And I say, well, what if it's not attraction? What if you are literally looking for them? What if it's you're seeking something about that person that initially solves what you're dealing with? Right? But will allow it to keep perpetuating. Like it keeps showing up and showing up. I call that an identity relationship. There's something about you, and it's the same for the other person.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:11Gary John Bishop?

  That when you get past all the stuff, whatever's incomplete will keep getting activated there. It will keep showing up. So when you, when you start to see it like, oh, these are just two human beings. Doing what human beings do, then it's, it's not personal.

• 35:30Gary John Bishop?

  Which is radical when you get it like that, like it's not personal. It's not personally them, personally me. Like, these are just two beings trying to work this out. And what worked what out will essentially work themselves out.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:44Gary John Bishop?

  So that's why I insist with people, the greatest work you'll ever do, you'll ever do,

• 35:52Gary John Bishop?

  is to get complete with your first 20 years of life.

• 35:55Lewis Howes?

  So true.

• 35:56Gary John Bishop?

  First 20 years. Because everything after that is a reflection of it. I spent 20, I spent 26 years in Glasgow, 26 years. I've been longer here.

• 36:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:07Gary John Bishop?

  And I still identify with that like it's me, but I've been longer here. And it's some of the colloquialisms and the traditions and the, like, I identify with that because it became so imprinted, you know? And in my second book, I talked about, you're the little magic sponge. And you, you're, you're, you're not soaking up all of life, you're soaking up the bits. And then when you hit about 20, that little sponge just hardens. And whatever's in there. That's it.

• 36:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Gary John Bishop?

  It's in there. And that's what you use.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:43Gary John Bishop?

  That logic. And until you awaken to that and realize that all of that that's there is really only a potential you.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:54Gary John Bishop?

  There's so much more. If you think about it like quantum physics. Right, like multiple universes, endless universes, all happening at the same time, multiple potentials. Well, that's every second of your life. Every second of your life. There's a myriad of potential yous that could be talking right now. And what you typically do is the you that you did the second before.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:19Gary John Bishop?

  And the second before and the second. And so it perpetuates.

• 37:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:24Gary John Bishop?

  Until you get aware, until you start to be like, oh, I'm not stuck with this. I could literally be somebody else.

• 37:33Lewis Howes?

  What's been the biggest mistakes you've brought to relationships?

• 37:37Jillian Turecki?

  Me personally?

• 37:38Lewis Howes?

  That you've later had to realize and take accountability for. Oh, okay. Yeah, I was responsible for this or this, or I could have shown up differently.

• 37:45Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, for me, definitely it's been in the past codependency. And what it looks like is it's funny, you know. Relationships are funny. I mean, I've had some really beautiful relationships and I've had some not so beautiful relationships. And that's why certain people are going to bring out certain things in you, whereas others are not. But I've definitely brought codependency and low self-worth to relationships like depending on my partner too much for my happiness.

• 38:11Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 38:11Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 38:12Lewis Howes?

  What happens when we depend on our partner to make us happy?

• 38:15Jillian Turecki?

  Catastrophe. So here's the paradox. I think that we need to be with someone who wants to make us happier. And that we want to make, we want to add value to each other's lives. We want to make the path easier, but no one can walk our path but ourselves. And so what happens is that when, and it's unconscious. You know, and it's part of it is also conditioning. It's like be with someone who makes you happy, this or that, you know?

• 38:44Jillian Turecki?

  The problem is that if you don't feel, at least mostly whole, you know, we all have our things that we're dealing with. But if you don't, if you feel really fragmented and you think a relationship or another person is going to actually bring all the pieces together, then what's gonna happen is that you're gonna be really disappointed because then you're relying on another fallible, flawed human.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Imperfect human.

• 39:09Jillian Turecki?

  Imperfect human. And you're gonna have all these expectations and your, your shoulders are gonna be crushed by the weight of failed expectations, constantly. But, you know, so yeah, I've done that.

• 39:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:26Jillian Turecki?

  Not really standing on my own two feet emotionally.

• 39:31Jillian Turecki?

  I have brought stress to a relationship and not, and not my self-awareness around stress to the point where I've closed or, yeah, where I've closed, you know, not been receptive to love.

• 39:46Lewis Howes?

  Guarded.

• 39:47Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, guarded or just tense and stressed and just totally expecting to be loved anyway. And it's, it's, you know, relationship is so filled with paradox. It's like, yes, they should actually contribute to your happiness, but you also have to know how to make yourself happy. No, you don't have to love yourself completely to be in a relationship, but yes, you have to love yourself at some level, you know? Or you learn to love yourself in a relationship, but also you can't enter a relationship hating yourself. There's just so many paradoxes and I would just say that people just need to find sort of the balance for themselves.

• 40:30Jillian Turecki?

  And like, the reality is that we should be adding value to each other's lives. We should want to root for our partner and we wanna see them win. And we wanna see like their path be just like paved with gold. And we will do anything to help them, but we can't actually pave the path, path for them. And that's the key difference. And we can't expect that from someone.

• 40:56Lewis Howes?

  Right. I think that's, you're speaking my language right now because...

• 41:02Lewis Howes?

  You know, over the last couple of years of doing my own healing journey, I was just like, if I enter a relationship again, right? It was kind of like if, you know, because I was just like, I'd rather be happy and on my own. No, but I love intimacy and connection.

• 41:16Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  It's like, okay, I want it, but it's like not at the expense of like suffering.

• 41:20Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 41:21Lewis Howes?

  And abandoning my, my values and my vision and my lifestyle, my needs.

• 41:25Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 41:26Lewis Howes?

  But I was like, I just want to make sure that I'm always taking care of it and loving myself and taking care of myself. And creating my own joy and happiness and fulfillment, independent of a relationship. Never needing someone, but the way they show up can just add to that joy.

• 41:44Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 41:44Lewis Howes?

  Add to that happiness. And I want to be in a relationship with someone that is a joyful person. It's kind of like their baseline.

• 41:50Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  Because they've processed stuff, they've been on the healing journey, they're, they're whole, not perfect, but whole and, and continuing to improve. But they're just, their baseline is joy.

• 42:01Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah.

• 42:02Lewis Howes?

  When someone's baseline is joy, you don't have to do something to make them joyful. They are joyful.

• 42:07Jillian Turecki?

  Yes.

• 42:08Lewis Howes?

  And so it's getting your place to a, a state of peace and joy and fulfillment in your own life. So that you don't need the person to make you happy.

• 42:17Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 42:18Lewis Howes?

  And then you're not going to self abandon, I think, or diminish your self-worth in the relationship. If someone's abusive or acting out of character consistently, you're not going to stay in that. You're going to be like, well, that doesn't work for me.

• 42:33Jillian Turecki?

  And that's really the key point because honestly with epidemic in terms of what I see personally is just low self-esteem. And people, it's sort of like two camps. I see people either being selfish and not appreciating their partner.

• 42:50Lewis Howes?

  Not giving enough to the partner.

• 42:51Jillian Turecki?

  Not giving enough. Or I see the people tolerating too much BS.

• 42:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 42:55Jillian Turecki?

  And so to the people who tolerate too much, it's like you, something, you have to do something to raise your self-esteem, something. Because the, what people tolerate out there is what I've tolerated.

• 43:08Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, right?

• 43:08Jillian Turecki?

  It's, it's unbelievable, actually. But part of that is also because people are so afraid to be alone. And they're afraid to start over. And

• 43:18Lewis Howes?

  The time invested with that last person.

• 43:20Jillian Turecki?

  Exactly. Love your life single. You can really love your life single, but also really want a relationship. I don't want to discourage. I think that life is better in a good relationship.

• 43:31Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 43:32Jillian Turecki?

  It just is. And, and getting love from a partner and sharing and having that exchange is, is really profound. But it, but you know, you also have to give up your preferences to be in a relationship.

• 43:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:46Jillian Turecki?

  You know, like, I tell single people all the time, like, you wanna lie in your bed diagonally, like, go for it. You like, all that secret single behavior, enjoy it. Because when you're in a relationship and you're living with someone, you can't necessarily do that. But you have to really, like you said, being in the position where you'd rather be single than just in something subpar. That is an amazing position to be in.

• 44:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's huge.

• 44:13Jillian Turecki?

  It's huge.

• 44:14Lewis Howes?

  Are you in a relationship right now?

• 44:16Jillian Turecki?

  I'm actually not, which is wild. Um, I mean, I guess it's not that wild. I, you know, so the whole reason why I do this is that I taught yoga for 20 years. And so yoga is like the, probably the most important thing in my life, other than people in my life. And I had a really difficult marriage. It only lasted two years. It was like, actually.

• 44:41Lewis Howes?

  How long were you together for before?

• 44:42Jillian Turecki?

  Four years. Well, we were together two years prior to that. And interesting, this is an interesting story. So, I would say 90% was perfect before we got married. But the 10% that wasn't was so, so profound. And yeah, I felt seen, safe, loved, adored. I adored him. We, we had amazing rapport. We laughed hysterically. I really like it when I make people laugh. If you can understand, I have a really dark, nasty sense of humor. So if you can understand my sense of humor, I immediately feel very connected to you, right? And so we really connected and, but there were things that, um,

• 45:24Jillian Turecki?

  that I would never tolerate. And this is something like, we're cool, like I, he, things not working out with him, and then my mother died. So I went through a lot of tragedy to get to the place where I am now.

• 45:39Jillian Turecki?

  But I'm very cool with him. In fact, I have a joke that I should probably, that he should probably send me a bill because I have this whole career based on this relationship that I had with him. The wisdom you gained from this experience. Oh, so I'm actually very grateful. But there is an interesting story, which is that we went to, we were about eight months into our relationship and I felt totally in love. We were both totally in love. And I don't know what triggered this because this was a while ago and I just don't, I just don't think about it anymore. It's not traumatic for me. But something triggered him and he had a proclivity towards avoidance. And I had the proclivity towards anxiety. And my father was very, very avoidant and shut down.

• 46:24Jillian Turecki?

  So here we are. Ancient and avoidant is not a good combination. It's not a good combination. So it's a bad combination. But so he was shut down over something that I have absolutely, something that was not warranted. And we went to this show called- It was his own traumas. It was totally his own stuff. This was not something that, I mean, I could take a lot of responsibility and have, but this is not something that I did. It was something that he interpreted. So we went to this show called Sleep No More. And I don't know if you've heard of it, but it was like a thing in New York and it was really, really crazy and really cool. And you get there and they give you like these masks, like from Scream, basically, like these crazy masks. And so you, even though if you go with someone, it's a very, you kind of get separated.

• 47:09Jillian Turecki?

  They separate you and they take you into rooms and it's a whole- Yeah. So it's a very solitary experience and everyone's behind a mask. So you're having your own experience. But on our way there, I could, he was in what would be the first of many of like these moods where he would shut down and I didn't know what was going on. Back then, I didn't have the courage to say, what is going on? Like, speak up. Like, what's hap- did I do something? Let's talk about this. Let's talk about it. Now-

• 47:38Jillian Turecki?

  Wouldn't even, yeah.

• 47:39Lewis Howes?

  You didn't have the tools then.

• 47:40Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, I didn't have the tools and I didn't have the self-esteem then.

• 47:43Lewis Howes?

  The courage to.

• 47:44Jillian Turecki?

  Yeah, all of it. And so when we went, he was totally shut down, we were separated, but there were times where you would recognize a person because you know what they're wearing and I would be so psyched to connect with him and he would pretend like he didn't see me. It was like a total stonewalling. And I was so incredibly upset. And all I could think about is I gotta get this relationship back on track. Like I have to like make this better.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  From that one day?

• 48:11Jillian Turecki?

  From that, from that one night because he was stonew... I knew that, I was like, his feelings changed about me. I have to make sure that I, that whatever it is that triggered him doesn't trigger him again. So all this stuff came up.

• 48:22Lewis Howes?

  So you interpreted that too?

• 48:24Jillian Turecki?

  Yes, exactly. So I, so I got really anxious, you know, I, low self-esteem.

• 48:28Lewis Howes?

  It's not perfect.

• 48:29Jillian Turecki?

  I don't wanna, or like, it's not that it wasn't perfect, it was really bad. If, so in other words, if I were to encounter that today, that relationship would have ended that day.

• 48:40Lewis Howes?

  You'd be like, hey, this doesn't work for me, yeah.

• 48:42Jillian Turecki?

  It just would have ended because I would have known from a value system perspective and also from what is good for me, that that is absolutely, we can, we can have fights, we can have disagreements, but that is not allowed in my world. So, um, so I've changed a lot and the relationships that I've had since then, because we split many years ago, have been super healthy and super, super lovely. Just not in alignment with what it is I really want. And I am just like you, like I would rather, yes, companionship is great and having someone tell you you're beautiful and lovely and friendship is great. Yeah, but what I want is something like, I'm looking more to the future now

• 49:26Jillian Turecki?

  in a way that I haven't in the past.

• 49:30Lewis Howes?

  What is that about emotions trapped in the body are not expressed in a healthy way? That makes us sick.

• 49:39Eric Barker?

  It's stress. Is that that issue where it was stunning to me that was it a 2009 UC Berkeley study, you know, found that that good relationships can add a decade to your lifespan potentially, a decade. It was crazy. And then there was a meta review where they they look at all the studies about relationships. And what they found is that good relationships are second only to genetics in terms of predicting both health and longevity in humans.

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 50:07Eric Barker?

  Yeah, it's like, it's so crazy. We forget that those little stressors that build up and we don't have a release valve. When we can't talk about things, we can't share things, when we can't hear that it's normal, it's okay. This is really hard stuff. You know, what was it? The issue of loneliness, the stress hormones that happen that basically because of loneliness is the equivalent of a physical attack. Loneliness is like getting beat up.

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 50:32Eric Barker?

  Yeah.

• 50:33Lewis Howes?

  There's a difference between loneliness and choosing to be alone, to have alone time, to process in a healthy way and to love on yourself and accept yourself versus I'm sad and lonely and no one cares about me.

• 50:46Eric Barker?

  This was some of the most mind blowing research that I looked at in here was that issue of what you're describing is the difference between loneliness and solitude. Loneliness, this sounds totally crazy. Loneliness before the 19th century basically didn't exist.

• 51:01Lewis Howes?

  We didn't have time to be.

• 51:04Eric Barker?

  We were so enmeshed in societies, religions, tribes, nations. We always felt a part of something, even if we weren't close to people and we usually were, we felt we were a part of something. So, Fayel Birdi, who is a researcher at University of York, she looked back and you basically before the 19th century, you can't hear it mentioned because we were always embedded in a group. When you hear the word lonely, it it meant something by itself. It didn't have the negative stigma. It wasn't until literally Frankenstein that you heard lonely in the 19th century start to be used as a negative thing because we had an explosion of individualism, which unlocked a lot of power, a lot of great things in the world, but we felt separate.

• 51:44Eric Barker?

  And second crazy thing, John Kaciopou, leading researcher on loneliness, what he found was that people who are lonely and people who are not lonely spend the same amount of time with others. Lonely people don't spend any more time alone. What he realized was that loneliness is not about proximity. We've all felt lonely in a crowd. You can be in Times Square on New Year's Eve.

• 52:10Lewis Howes?

  Feel alone.

• 52:10Eric Barker?

  And still feel alone. You feel alone on the subway. Loneliness isn't lack of proximity to people. Loneliness is how you feel about your relationships. When you go on a business trip, you might miss your friends and family. But you know they're there. You know they're missing you. No, they don't care about you. You don't feel lonely. You might miss them. Versus if you're surrounded by people, but you think nobody cares. That's when you feel lonely. It's how you feel about those relationships.

• 52:35Lewis Howes?

  How do you shift that feeling? And what if they really don't care? You know, maybe it's all in your head and you're like, ah, they don't care about me because they're not doing what I want or something. But how do you shift that to create a deeper connection and feeling about, you know, the few key relationships you have at least?

• 52:53Eric Barker?

  Yeah. I mean, that's where we want to get into time and vulnerability. Those two costly signals.

• 52:58Lewis Howes?

  Spending more time?

• 53:00Eric Barker?

  Spending... Time is one of the most powerful signals in a relationship. Because time is... All the stuff that Dale Carnegie talks about is easy to do. That's why we like it. That's also why manipulators like it. How you show somebody that they're really special is by costly signals. If I spend a lot of time with you, if I spend an hour a day with you, I can only do that for 24 people. And I've got to sleep.

• 53:24Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:25Eric Barker?

  That is your special. There's no way around that. Time is costly. Vulnerability, I'm telling you things that could be used against me. That's really... Those are powerful signals. And when people reciprocate those signals, we know they're serious. If they're making the time, if they're saying things that maybe they shouldn't say, then these are people who are making the effort. The other thing that's really powerful, I found this fascinating. This was just a study that just came out in 2020. Was that if you're not feeling supported enough in your relationships, an easy thing you can do is introduce your friends to one another. Because the issue is, there's a synergy. I think that word's often overused, but there's a synergy in that, in the sense of

• 54:10Eric Barker?

  having one-off relationships is great. But once you start introducing your friends, you're creating a community. Your friends can coordinate. Hey, Louis is feeling down. We should take him out. Now they can work together and you're creating your own group. You're creating your own community. That is so much more powerful than a lot of one-off relationships where people can't say, share information and say, this is what he needs right now.

• 54:36Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. That's something I've kind of done intuitively for the last 15 years, which is creating individual relationships and then saying, hey, let's do a dinner together and kind of bringing everyone together.

• 54:48Eric Barker?

  Yeah.

• 54:48Lewis Howes?

  And trying to go beyond that by saying, here's why you should know this person, and here's what you can connect on, and here's what they're working on, and here's how you guys could align on this thing. And I think the more you put people together who can benefit each other, whether it be as friends, or in business, or career, you're adding value to more other people in multiple ways. Like you said, the synergistic ways.

• 55:11Eric Barker?

  Yeah.

• 55:12Lewis Howes?

  I think that just deepens your connection to people, too.

• 55:16Eric Barker?

  Absolutely. I mean, in terms of the emotions, you know, there's no doubt of having these friends, but also in terms of life success. It's like Mark Granovetter did research on weak ties. And where, usually the things our friends know, we usually know. But when you go one degree out, those are the things we're not hearing about. Those are the things we're not connecting. When you're connecting people with other people that are one degree out from you, they're getting new ideas, new potential, new job offers, new opportunities. You're creating this whole network.

• 55:46Lewis Howes?

  You're the center. You're the champion of all these relationships and opportunities.

• 55:51Eric Barker?

  And that is so valuable for both sides. It's so valuable because it's so much easier for somebody else to just say, sure, I'll come to dinner, than having to organize it themselves. People are really going to appreciate that. But also, as you being the hub of the network, then all roads lead to you.

• 56:08Lewis Howes?

  And it usually pays dividends long-term. Not that you're trying to like, get something out of it necessarily. And I think when it's only transactional, it doesn't feel as good, but. You know, I've had multiple people that have gotten married and now have kids because I've connected the dots somehow to them, whether they came to an event that I put on, or I've introduced them, or you know, something. And so it's like you're, you're creating a legacy in the world, whether you're, you know, close with them or not, you're still making an impact in people's lives. And I think good things tend to happen when you impact people in that way, long-term.

• 56:44Eric Barker?

  Yeah. Well, you're, you're, you're thinking, you're, you're starting with something positive. You're starting with good intent, then you're reaching out, doing the work. It makes such a difference. It's like, you know, there's, there's a lot of places that say they want to have impact. It's like, no, let's have positive impact. Let's, let's focus that a little bit more. And it's like, to do that makes all the difference in the world. I mean, not only in terms of, again, relationships and love, but also in terms of career. One of the biggest tips that's come out of research in terms of people networking is there are some people who are super connectors. There are some people, if you look at your contact list, you will see they introduced you to a disproportionate number of the people you know. And reaching out to them is a very high leverage way to network better. By creating

• 57:26Eric Barker?

  these things, you're not only bringing people together, doing warm things, you may be helping these people get jobs and opportunities, because you're the super connector.

• 57:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Keith Ferazzi wrote a book called Never Eat Alone, which talks about, you know, I think never having a meal by yourself, but always finding people to connect with, and seeing how you can offer value, and connecting the dots from previous connections. And the power that comes beyond just personal relationships, but in career, business as well, with that network.

• 57:52Eric Barker?

  Yeah. There's, there's recent research by Nicholas Appler that basically showed, we're often reluctant to even talk to strangers, you know, in a Starbucks or something like that. We often feel like, you know, oh, we're going to annoy them. And the truth is, that's not the case. When they surveyed people, just saying something small, wow, line's long, or how can you relate to them? We usually feel better. And when we think about it, like, again, to specific, yeah, when I did say something, that person said something, we overemphasize the negative. Most of the times when we just say something nice, we reach out, we feel better, they feel better, and sometimes it blossoms into an actual friendship.

• 58:31Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. This is powerful stuff, man. I'm curious, how do you know?

• 58:39Lewis Howes?

  How does someone know when they are truly in a loving partnership? And this is real love versus chemicals and illusions of love?

• 58:51Eric Barker?

  Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, there's gonna be the issue of time. For the first 18 months, you are gonna have the chemicals. But the truth is, the chemicals usually die down. You know, it's like, so in longer relationships, you know, you are gonna, you are gonna get away from the craziness. But what's really powerful? I was surprised when I looked at the issue of love as a feeling. Love makes us nuts. Love makes us absolutely crazy. When you look at the historical documents, going back to 3000 B.C. in Egypt.

• 59:25Lewis Howes?

  Wars and killing and this and that, yeah.

• 59:26Eric Barker?

  We, love was described as a malady. It was described as a sickness.

• 59:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 59:31Eric Barker?

  Yes, because it was literally a diagnosable illness. And to this day, if you just, yes, because we get so nuts. But again.

• 59:39Lewis Howes?

  We don't have reason, right? It's like, you gotta have some, some ability to not react and explode.

• 59:46Eric Barker?

  Yeah.

• 59:46Lewis Howes?

  Over love.

• 59:47Eric Barker?

  And I was just like, why would? And the truth is, it makes sense. We talked about earlier, in friendship with costly signals. What is a more costly signal than I am running around like a maniac, thinking about you all the time and doing everything? I'm not behaving rationally. What is that? That tells you, I am invested. I am serious. I am incapable of, of, of callously taking advantage of you because I'm crazy. And they actually tested this. They looked at countries and communities where it was very easy to just ghost someone. And countries and communities where it was very difficult. They had strong network ties. It was hard to ghost. What do you see where it's easier to ghost?

• 1:00:30Eric Barker?

  People, the signal of love, the craziness of love is greater because your brain realizes fundamentally, I need to boost the signal to show the other person, I am nuts about them. Love is stronger because it has to communicate. It is a valuable sense, it's a valuable sense to the other person that you are literally crazy about them. And this gets more to your point. The issue of what predicts long-term success in a relationship is you isolate part of that crazy. Idealization. Idealization, seeing that person as better than they are is not only predicts happiness in a relationship, it predicts the duration and the success of a relationship.

• 1:01:12Lewis Howes?

  If you see your partner or potential partner as better than they actually are, makes it a better relationship or worse relationship?

• 1:01:19Eric Barker?

  It makes it better. It makes it better. You need to see them as better than they are. That is, it is the greatest hallmark of love.

• 1:01:26Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:01:27Eric Barker?

  Yeah. To, because we can get cynical, everybody has flaws. When you start making negative assumptions about your partner, that's not a good sign. There's a strong correlation between how people feel on their wedding day and how things work out. Is when people have second, second thoughts, divorce is much more likely. Versus when people have that idealization. You've heard it, when people first start dating, they're just, they are over the moon. This person has done everything. They've won Nobel prizes and gold medals. They are unstoppable. Having some of that and keeping some of that, a little bit of a rational positive. Because the thing is, when they, when they dive down and do the research, these people are not deluded.

• 1:02:08Eric Barker?

  You realize your partner is imperfect, but you're always willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You always believe they have the potential. You always believe, it's that issue of when they do something wrong, they must be having a bad day. You're compassionate, you give them the benefit of the doubt versus the idiot did it again. Those are the things. So that idealization, seeing that person as better than they are, being able to sustain that is a great sign of true love.

• 1:02:36Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And

• 1:03:20Lewis Howes?

  now it's time to go out there and do something great.