Unlocking Longevity With Four Essential Foods and Anti-Aging Strategies EP 1465

The Summit of Greatness is back! Buy your tickets today – summitofgreatness.com – Dr. Rhonda Patrick has a Ph. D. in biomedical science and has done extensive research on nutrition, aging, stress, and cancer. She trained as a postdoctoral fellow at Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute and has investigated the effects of micronutrient (vitamins and minerals) inadequacies on metabolism, inflammation, DNA damage, and aging and whether supplementation can reverse the damage. In addition, she also investigated the role of vitamin D in brain function, behavior, and other physiological functions. Dr. Sten Ekberg, shares information that helps to take away the nutrition guess work. Dr. Ekberg is a former decathlon athlete who competed in the 1992 Summer Olympics for Sweden and was a Swedish decathlete National Record holder. Sten won the Swedish Championship in both decathlon and heptathlon. Ekberg currently resides in the United States where he works as a chiropractor and nutritionist at his office Wellness For Life in Cumming, Georgia. Dr. Mark Hyman is a practicing family physician and an internationally recognized advocate in the field of Functional Medicine and a fourteen-time New York Times best-selling author. He is the host of one of the leading health podcasts, The Doctor’s Farmacy. Thomas DeLauer is a Nutritionist and Expert in Diet, Cognitive Nutrition and Performance. He is motivated by a guiding ethos of integrated optimization: if you perform better, so does the world. Thomas reaches more than 15 million viewers monthly (on average) through his Youtube channel, where he translates experience and learning from his own health transformation utilizing intermittent fasting and other forms of nutrition into actionable steps for his dedicated community of 2.85 million subscribers. In this episode you will learn,How our gut health directly helps our immune system functionThe four essential foods for longevityWhy meat-eaters need to avoid confounding factors like smoking if they want to stay healthyHow your chronological age doesn’t tell the full aging storyWhy to avoid processed food, especially carbohydratesFor more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1465Dr. Rhonda Patrick’s Full Episode: https://lewishowes.com/podcast/a-scientific-guide-to-living-longer-feeling-happier-and-eating-healthier-with-dr-rhonda-patrick/Dr. Sten Ekberg’s Full Episode: https://link.chtbl.com/1345-podDr. Mark Hyman’s Full Episode: https://link.chtbl.com/1375-podThomas DeLauer’s Full Episode: https://link.chtbl.com/1389-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

  Calling all conscious achievers who are seeking more community and connection. I've got an invitation for you. Join me at this year's Summit of Greatness this September 7th through 9th in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio to unleash your true greatness. This is the one time a year that I gather the greatness community together in person for a powerful transformative weekend. People come from all over the world and you can expect to hear from inspiring speakers like Inky Johnson, Josprey Singh, Vanessa Van Edwards, Jen Sincero, and many more. You'll also be able to dance your heart out to live music, get your body moving with group workouts, and connect with others at our evening socials.

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  So if you're ready to learn, heal, and grow alongside other incredible individuals in the greatness community, then you can learn more at lewishouse.com/summit2023. Make sure to grab your ticket, invite your friends, and I'll see you there.

• 1:01Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It's something I don't think people realize that the food you eat, and not only the food you eat, your lifestyle. Obesity itself causes low-grade inflammation. Changing someone's diet can also improve depressive scores, particularly the combined two is even more robust, which makes sense.

• 1:19Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:43Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

• 2:01Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Food is extremely important because it's directly linked to obesity. And obesity itself causes low-grade inflammation. And foods that are really high, particularly when you combine a high saturated fat with a high refined sugar, so let's say you're eating, you're drinking your glass of milk with your cookie, like that's the worst because you're getting the saturated fat and the sugar.

• 2:29Lewis Howes?

  My whole job.

• 2:32Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  And that's been shown to cause a very high, what's called, postprandial inflammatory response. We've been talking about postprandial glucose response, which is after you eat, so postprandial. There's an inflammatory response that also occurs after eating. And inflammation itself has been shown to, inflammatory molecules cross the blood-brain barrier and they have, they play a role in basically depressing dopamine signaling and serotonin and all sorts of, you know, affecting neurotransmitters and brain function. And there's been studies directly showing that if you inject a person with an inflammatory cytokine, it causes depressive symptoms versus injected with saline.

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  Really? So the more inflammation we have in the body, it increases depression?

• 3:21Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Exactly. Inflammation, we used to think, again, the brain was separate from the body and that, you know, the immune system and all that didn't, you know, affect the brain. Turns out that was all wrong, absolutely wrong. These inflammatory mediators do get into the brain and they get into the brain and they change, you know, they're changing the firing of certain neurotransmitters and things like that. They're also activating the resident immune cells in the brain called microglia astrocytes, a microglia, a type of astrocyte. And, you know, that also is linked to depression.

• 4:01Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  And so, we put out a little short video on this, an animated video actually, on inflammation and depression and talk about a lot of the studies. Because it's something I don't think people realize, that the food you eat, and not only the food you eat, your lifestyle, you know, being obese and overweight, being sedentary, being sedentary, you know, exercise is one of the best anti-inflammatory.

• 4:28Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Medicines you can get, period. And it also happens to be one of the, you know, best lifestyle remedies for depression as well. I mean randomized controlled trials showing that, all sorts of evidence. So.

• 4:40Lewis Howes?

  Is this any type of exercise? Or are you a HIIT training, cardio, 30 minutes, 60 minutes? What's your opinion?

• 4:47Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Well, there's been, there's been studies looking at, you know, I would say the large body of evidence seems to show aerobic exercise is really important with respect to depression. And that is because aerobic exercise leads to increases in what's called brain-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF as it's called. It's basically a growth factor that's produced. You can, after just 20 minutes of a moderate intensity workout, you can increase your level, you can find levels increased by like up to 30% in plasma. It crosses into the brain and in the brain, it does a lot of things. Not only does it do what IGF-1 does, it actually grows new neurons.

• 5:31Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It helps you grow new neurons and it helps your neurons survive. So it plays an important role in preventing brain aging. But something else very unique that it does, it plays a role in what's called neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity is like your brain's ability to adapt to stressful conditions. You know, I mean, this is what children can do pretty, pretty good. As you get older, neuroplasticity goes down, as does everything. But it plays, neuroplasticity is important for, for being able to cope with stress. Like the stress of a pandemic, for example. You know, more neuroplasticity helps with those stressful divorce people are going through. You know, or losing your job. Lots of, lots of stressful things, but, but, but neuroplasticity helps the brain cope with that.

• 6:15Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  And brain-derived neurotrophic factor helps increase neuroplasticity, which decreases with age. So again, aerobic exercise was important. But you know, there's been studies linking strength training to lower depression rates as well.

• 6:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Any type of exercise will help.

• 6:31Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Exactly, I do. But I really think that aerobic, there is, there is a place for aerobic with respect to the BDNF, the brain-derived neurotrophic.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  I always tell people that every day I try to put myself through some type of physical pain that makes me feel discomfort, whether that's sweating for 10 minutes or a two-hour workout or playing basketball, hiking, whatever. I try to put my mind and body through something where I'm like, gosh, I don't want to do this. But by putting myself through pain, controlled pain, it sets me up to be more under control when there is chaos and pain.

• 7:05Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Right.

• 7:06Lewis Howes?

  I think that's the, the key we should get to is like controlled pain, healthy pain, so that you're not out of control when there is chaos and pain in the world.

• 7:16Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It, you're, what you're describing, um, scientists often refer to, uh, as hormesis. And that is basically a little bit of stress on the body, like exercise.

• 7:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 7:27Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Um, basically because our body tries to maintain home, what's called homeostasis, um, a little bit of stress will cause our body to respond to that stress with a lot of anti-stress. Anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, growing new brain cells, any, all these beneficial things.

• 7:47Lewis Howes?

  So. Wow.

• 7:48Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  A little bit of stress gives you a lot of good stuff, right?

• 7:51Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 7:51Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Whereas low-grade chronic stress all the time, it, it doesn't do anything. You're not, you're not getting that, you're not getting that powerful.

• 7:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, this is power, this is amazing. Um, I'm going to say something that I hope I don't offend anyone when I say it. That I am all about self-love, self-care, loving yourself for who you are, accepting yourself for where you're at in your life, physically, emotionally, environment, financially, all that. The more I hear you talk about this, the quote-unquote self-love movement of accept who you are and accept where you're at with your body and what you eat and it's okay to eat whatever you want, just love yourself for who you are, is that self-love mentality, that specific type of mentality, killing people and hurting them if they aren't willing

• 8:44Lewis Howes?

  to adapt a, no, it's not okay to continue to eat whatever you want all the time and just love yourself and accept yourself for who you are. You have to make sure you arm your body and your mind and your health with the nutrients, the tools, the exercise in order to decrease depression and increase happiness.

• 9:05Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  I think that there's the, you know, absolutely if you're going to just eat what you want and except being obese, that you will, you'll be causing yourself more harm and both physically and mentally. And that also probably affects your loved ones as well, you know, that care about you, or perhaps that you're interacting with and you're in a terrible mood. And so, you know, when your neighbor's happy, you're happy, right? You know, so I think that there's there's part of this movement, I think there's a fine balance between you don't want to have your expectations so high that you can never be happy.

• 9:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm never gonna look perfect and someone's always skinnier than me.

• 9:43Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  I'm never gonna have blue eyes. I'm never, I'm never, you know, so if I'm always like, well, only people with blue eyes are the prettiest, like, then I'll never be happy. So like, that's an unreasonable expectation, right? In my mind. So I mean, there are things where, you know, like, I'm never gonna be a billionaire. And if that, if that's all I wanted in life, to be happy, I'll never be happy. So there are things, I think, that you can, there's a certain balance between, I mean, you want your expectations behind it, in a way, you want to always aim for what you, you know, aim for the stars in a way, and try to like, work hard to get there. So what I'm trying to say is, I think that self-love movement came from somewhere, right? I think there was, there was something to that, right? But I think it's sort of spiral out of control. And, and what's happened

• 10:27Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  now is, you're saying, well, accept things that I don't want to change, rather than you can. Because you can change, you can lose weight, you can eat different foods and get healthier.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  Make different decisions.

• 10:40Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  People that are eating refined sugar, people that are drinking these sugar sweetened beverages, you know, and there's, there's a lot of people, maybe not so many people listening to the podcast or watching it, but there are people that do. And, you know, there's been studies that have shown refined sugar acts on the reward pathway in the brain, dopamine pathway, in a very similar manner to controlled substances, drugs like nicotine, methamphetamine, not to the same degree, but they're acting on the same systems and they're affecting the reward pathways.

• 11:12Lewis Howes?

  It increases a feel-good hormone.

• 11:13Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It does.

• 11:14Lewis Howes?

  When you take it for the moment, but then it makes you decline afterwards and crash, right?

• 11:18Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It does. And, and you know, I think the important point to realize with that is that when you take that away, when you stop, What happens is there is a withdrawal and it's been shown at least with, for example, with nicotine studies that your dopamine's getting constantly fired, fired, fired, and so your, what's called dopamine receptors, which basically dopamine acts on to make you feel good, those start to decrease because your neurons are going, oh, well, I have so much of this around, I don't need so many of the receptors. So when you take away that thing that's causing the dopamine all the time to go away, you have fewer receptors and now you don't feel as much, I mean, it's just really bad. You're not feeling any amount of dopamine, right? But it's been shown that that sort of normalizes within three months.

• 12:01Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  And three months is a long time, but it's actually not that long.

• 12:05Lewis Howes?

  Of cutting out the sugar, you mean?

• 12:07Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Well, this has been shown with nicotine. I'm just drawing a parallel. I'm drawing a parallel saying, look, it's not going to be easy the first month.

• 12:14Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard. It's so hard.

• 12:16Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It's not going to be easy the first month. It may not be easy the second month, but it's going to get easier. And it's, not only is it going to get easier, you're going to be happier.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  Your body's going to regulate itself. The hormones are going to regulate, right? Things are going to self-regulate.

• 12:28Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Yeah, things start to get back to normal. Exactly.

• 12:30Lewis Howes?

  It's very challenging, but it's necessary to get healthier and happier, right?

• 12:35Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It is. I don't think people realize that, you know, depression, it's not, it's not just a genetic disorder. It's not just something that can't be fixed ever. No, in some cases, you know, there are, you know, there are definitely genetic cases of depression. I'm not saying that that's not the case.

• 12:52Lewis Howes?

  But can you heal depression through food and nutrition and exercise?

• 12:55Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Well, there have been studies that have shown that exercise can be a treatment for depression. There have been studies that shown changing someone's diet can also improve depressive scores. And particularly the combined two is even more robust, which makes sense. You know, so there's something for people to realize, people that are maybe eating a not so healthy diet, people that are overweight. You know, overweight, definitely obese. And if they, if they do have depression, that there, there, there very well could be a link between, you know, between the, the diet, the, the lifestyle, the obesity, you know, you know, fat cells itself, they also increase, they, they produce inflammatory cytokines.

• 13:39Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  So independent of the whole eating the diet and the postprandial inflammatory response, just having fat, like particularly visceral fat, like around your organs and stuff. Like this stuff, this stuff is causing low-grade inflammation. And do you know what low-grade inflammation is?

• 13:55Lewis Howes?

  What is it?

• 13:55Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It means that you're basically activating your immune cells a little bit all the time. And activated immune cells require a ton of energy. So you're taking energy away from your brain.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  From defending itself, yeah.

• 14:10Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  From, from just, just having, you know, having a great day for, I mean, energy.

• 14:15Lewis Howes?

  So just having energy?

• 14:17Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  It's like a sink, exactly. Just having energy. It's a sink. Low-grade inflammation, I mean, you were telling me this, you, you know, we were chatting a little bit earlier about how you were eating this terrible diet back when you were doing your arena football and you were always tired.

• 14:31Lewis Howes?

  Always tired.

• 14:32Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Low-grade inflammation, it, it's an energy sink because it requires so much energy to activate your immune cells. And there's only so much energy, it's like a triage, right? It's triaging there.

• 14:43Lewis Howes?

  It's taking somewhere else. And it takes you away from your mission, from your vision of your life, from your career, from your energy with your family, your friends.

• 14:50Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Yeah, you have to have energy. I mean, it takes motivation to want to go to the gym. It takes motivation also to want to, to like do stuff or to talk to people to, you know.

• 14:59Lewis Howes?

  Is there a genetic thing that, or DNA thing that holds someone back from losing that weight if they've tried for years? Or is this still, uh, you know, they're just lacking the discipline? What, what is that?

• 15:13Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  There's absolutely many genes that regulate obesity. And, and, and my, like, I'll, I'll just tell you, my mother-in-law, she is also little, she's not, yeah, you're not obese. She's, you know, had, has in the past had an overweight problem and has tried, I mean, she is the kind of person that. Tries and goes all in and she has tried every diet, just everything and just nothing seemed to work. So I mean,

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  How does someone like that, if they try, try, try, and it's just like, you know what? I'm beating myself up. The diets I'm trying, the exercise is not working. What do they need to shift?

• 15:50Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Well, I do see you asked about genetics and there is a really important role for genetics as well. But I think that in order to know that, you're going to have to, you're going to have to measure biomarkers in your blood. So you're going to have to measure lipids, like your LDL cholesterol, different particle sizes of those cholesterol, inflammatory biomarkers like high sensitivity reactive protein, your triglycerides, your HbA1c, which is a long-term measure of your long-term blood glucose levels. Measure those things. And also, you can get a genetic test. There's a variety of genetic testing services out there, 23andMe, Ancestry DNA. I do have a genetic report that basically, we look exclusively, we're looking at genes

• 16:34Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  that are affecting, basically interacting with diet. So people that are eating a high protein diet, some people with a certain SNP, which is a one change in one nucleotide of DNA in the gene, basically can gain more weight. And the opposite is true, as like I mentioned. Or eating the ratio of saturated fat to polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats. So saturated fats found in foods like dairy, red meat, fatty cuts of red meat, polyunsaturated fats found in fish, monounsaturated fat is found in olive oil, olives, you know, nuts. So these things, like even the ratio of those things can affect, depending on someone's genetics, their ability to gain or lose weight.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  But can you?

• 17:14Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  And more so. Like, even people, there's some people have it where they eat a high carbohydrate diet and they gain more weight.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  So is there, is there, so it's not as simple, is what I'm hearing you say, as just eat less calories a day and you should lose weight?

• 17:29Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Not always.

• 17:30Lewis Howes?

  If you suppress the calorie intake, you're going to burn more and eventually you're going to burn, you know?

• 17:35Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  I think that's the one thing that's pretty tried and true, is that your caloric restriction,

• 17:42Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Most of the time, people will, you know, lose weight.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  Lose weight, got it, okay.

• 17:46Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  But, you know, the question is, how sustainable is that? You know, so you, maybe, maybe what you would need to do, you know, the other thing is that a lot of times, obesity, there's, there's a dysregulation in hormones. Hormones like insulin, leptin is another big one. And you have to reset those hormones in order to like, have a normal biology. And sometimes resetting those hormones takes a reset that's kind of a strong stressor, like, like a long fast.

• 18:14Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:15Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  A long fast, you know, where you're basically, you're basically resetting those things. And, and that's what did it for my mother-in-law. So, that was my long story.

• 18:23Lewis Howes?

  She did a long, did a long fast and helped her reset.

• 18:26Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  A couple of them, so she did, now by the way, you know, when I say a long fast, typically intermittent fasting is, is anything less than 48 hours. A longer fast would be longer than 48 hours.

• 18:37Lewis Howes?

  Three, eight plus days.

• 18:39Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  Yeah, and so she did, the first time she did a three-day, she started out by doing, um, sort of a, a caloric restriction, low calorie diet, just to kind of get her into it. And then she did a three-day fast where she didn't eat anything, a little bit of salt, she would take a little bit of salt in and drink some water. And then she did four days. Um, and she did this like, you know, separated by like a month. And that reset her metabolism and all of a sudden, she started losing weight. You know?

• 19:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:07Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

  And this has also been the case for a few, a few other friends of mine, particularly one that was morbidly obese, and he lost like 180 pounds.

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  I don't know what the percentage would be, but I would not, I think gluten hurts everyone, right? But I don't think lectins hurt everyone, not at those doses. Again, it's, it's all about

• 19:31Lewis Howes?

  Smaller doses.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Dosage. So, nightshades have lectins, and if you are sensitive to something, if you have inflammation, if you have some issues, then I think, sort of like the carnivore, carnivore is more extreme, but before that, you want to try cutting out the lectins, cutting out the, the nightshades.

• 19:52Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  But again, it's not Some people sort of pick their little niche and say, I'm gonna be the lectin guy. I'm gonna be the nightshade guy. And they promote that as the solution for everyone, but it's not. And low carb is not the solution for everyone. I have some skinny patients that need to eat carbs. Right? They don't need to eat sugar and white bread, but they would probably do better eating 70, 80, 100 grams of carbs. Because they're very, very insulin sensitive. Their body has trouble putting on some weight.

• 20:34Lewis Howes?

  Right. Are there any other categories you think we should be eating?

• 20:38Speaker 02

  The leafy greens are kind of in the non-starchy vegetables, but they're sort of a little subcategory. And then I think some people kind of count the eggs with the meat. But I think it's a separate category because very few people are sensitive to meat. A lot of people are sensitive to eggs.

• 21:02Lewis Howes?

  People are sensitive to eggs?

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yes. And again, it's not a majority. It's not like with wheat or pasteurized milk, but I don't know, 5, 10, 15, 20%. And it's hard to tell because the people that come to my clinic, they're the ones who have the problems. So they're probably way more sensitive than the general population.

• 21:30Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Are you a big fan of eggs yourself?

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  As a food group?

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And I think quality is huge. I think a lot of problems develop because people eat really, really poor quality. So I think if the chicken or the hen had a healthy life and produces a healthy egg, I think you're much less likely to ever develop a sensitivity. But if that chicken is eating chemicals and hormones and was raised under horrendous conditions, I think your body is much more likely to develop a sensitivity to that because of whatever might be in there.

• 22:14Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Any other final category you like as a food group?

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  The most nutrient-dense foods.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do think even though dairy is a very common allergen, I do think a lot of people do well with some forms of dairy. So I typically recommend yogurt and sour cream because it's very rewarding. If you're doing a low-carb diet, then adding a little sour cream to something is is super tasty. I think cheese is okay for a lot of people, especially if it's like a good quality cheese, not the the melty singles and all that.

• 22:59Lewis Howes?

  Not the nacho cheese dip at the movie theater, which tastes so good, but it's not that good.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't even know about that.

• 23:05Lewis Howes?

  It's not even cheese, yeah.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I've trained myself into just associating chemicals with with that stuff.

• 23:11Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  But yeah, I I try to get things as close to nature as possible. So if I have the option, I'm gonna get pasture-raised eggs. I'm gonna get raw cheese with as few additives as possible because nature made things for us. We we are nature, right? And all the other animals on the planet, they graze off the planet. They don't process things, they don't alter things. So as soon as we change it, we increase the likelihood of screwing it up. And the more we change it, the more we screw it up. So the closer we can get to to the source, the the better.

• 23:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What would be three foods that you would recommend everyone eliminate? If you could eliminate or have very, very little every once in a while, but if you could almost eliminate these three foods from your diet, it would help you in a big way.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  So I don't know if we can call them foods,

• 24:09Speaker 02

  but obviously, sugar.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Sugar in the quantity, refined sugar in the quantities we eat is is absolutely toxic to the body. Number two would be processed fats.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  So healthy fats are natural fats, butter, meat fat, pork, avocado, olive oil, etc. Because we don't change them, we don't mess with them. But anything that we make an oil from that doesn't necess- that doesn't come easily, like a seed or corn. Corn has just a couple of percent fat in it, so it takes a lot of heat and chemicals and processing to get any oil out of it, so it tastes terrible. And then you have to bleach it and deodorize it and all that, so it's not a food anymore. And those foods are extremely toxic, so soybean oil, corn oil, canola oil, all of those processed oils.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  And especially if they're turned into a food product like margarine or shortening or something like that. Okay. So I put, I'd say, sugar and seed oils. And then something, again, that's not really a food, but I would, I would put it up there. And every time I make a video on this, I get a lot of backlash. And it's artificial sweeteners. Oh, man. Why are, why are artificial sweeteners not good for us? Because they are chemicals. They're foreign substances. They were developed by companies who made pesticides.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  And, and the latest and greatest, so Aspartame got a bad rap, so then they had to hustle to come up with something else. So they came up with sucralose. And they were very careful to name it in a way that sounded, yes, sucrose, sugar, sucralose. But the fact is, and, and then, and then they said that, well, you know, it's just like sugar. And then it just has some chlorine, just like sea salt. Well, in nature, sodium chloride is only bonded through like an electrostatic charge. I forget exactly what it's called, but it's not like a tight bond.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  So, yes, sodium chloride, perfectly natural. But when we bind chlorine to a carbon, nature never does that. Basically, every form of a chloro-carbon is a pesticide. And one of the most famous ones was DDT, which was banned as a cancer-causing agent. It almost wiped out the national bird, the eagle. And it's so toxic, it's in our environment 50 years later. So chloro-carbons are pesticides. And that's what sucralose is. It's a chloro-carbon.

• 27:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So eliminate refined sugar, eliminate processed fats, which is mostly seed oils, and artificial sweeteners. Are there any non-sugar sweeteners natural that you like or recommend that in the right doses are okay for you?

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Yes. So I use quite a bit of stevia.

• 27:39Lewis Howes?

  That's not an artificial sweetener, or is it?

• 27:40Speaker 02

  No, no. So some people bundle it together with artificial sweeteners just because it's a non-calorie sweetener. But it is a plant product. It's just a refined leaf, basically. And the thing to watch for, though, is that they don't mix it up with a lot of other chemicals, that it's the concentrated version.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  It's one ingredient, not 10 ingredients.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah. And another similar one would be monk fruit. That is also very similar in the way it tastes and looks and so forth. It's super, super concentrated. And it's also a plant extract.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  So if you're gonna add something to a coffee or a drink or something, stevia, monk fruit, you say is okay in the right doses?

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Yes. And then in the gray zone, I would also put sugar alcohols.

• 28:34Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Right? Some of them are better than others. I think the best one would be erythritol.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Because it is very slightly metabolized by the body. So it doesn't really affect blood sugar, but it doesn't really cause any other problems. Some of the other sugar alcohols, they sort of stay in the digestive tract for a while. And then those sugar alcohols become food for your intestinal bacteria. And that's where you get a lot of bloating.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  So I would say sugar alcohols are okay if you eat them in moderation. So this, this is always the trick in recommending food. When you, you make a list and people want to know the best one and so forth. And you, you categorize it and rank them. And now they say, that is a good one. I'm just going to eat that. Or Dr. Ekberg said, sugar alcohols are okay. So now I'm going to eat that every day. I'm going to bake with it. I'm going to buy the ice cream with it. And, and that's the thing, everything in moderation. So sugar alcohols, if you eat a teaspoon or a tablespoon here and there, I think it's totally fine.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  But if you start baking with it and doing the ice cream and you start getting half a cup a day. Now you're definitely going to upset the biome a little bit.

• 30:01Lewis Howes?

  Now, what matters based on your age range? You know, if someone's in their twenties versus I'm in my late thirties, almost forty. You're in your, I believe, fifties, you said.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:13Lewis Howes?

  Does it matter based on how old you are, of what you should be eating? How much you should be eating? Types of foods? Or is it pretty consistent throughout the decades?

• 30:25Speaker 02

  I would say it's pretty consistent throughout. And one analogy would be that, I mean, there's so many people, they say that women should fast this way. And teenagers should fast this way. And women over forty or under forty-seven. It's like, we love to complicate things, right? But are there different foods on the savanna for one giraffe versus another?

• 30:52Lewis Howes?

  An older giraffe and an younger giraffe.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Does the, does the male and the female giraffe eat from different trees? It's like, not really.

• 31:02Lewis Howes?

  What was the things that you saw when you went to these blue zones? That they did that maybe you weren't even thinking they would do? Like, what were the surprising things they did? Or the unsurprising things?

• 31:14Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I saw that were kind of striking to me. That made sense, but one was that in Ikaria, which was one of the Greek blue zones, they eat so much wild food. So they had wild greens, summer greens, winter greens, they had wild mushrooms, they had wild sage tea, they had wild fish, they had so much wild food in their diet. And we know that wild foods are much more nutrient dense. Why? Because they're stressed. And stressed plants make more protective compounds. Those protective compounds are called phytochemicals. They give the color and the richness and the flavor. What people don't understand is the more flavorful a food is naturally, the more phytochemicals it has.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 31:55Mark Hyman?

  You know, if you go to your garden at the end of August and pick a cherry tomato that's ripened in the hot sun, that explodes in your mouth like the most incredible flavor. But if you go to a store bought tomato and you cut it, it's like cardboard, tasteless. What's the difference? It's the phytochemicals. So flavor always follows the phytochemical richness of a food. So not the stuff you put on it, or sauces, or salt, or fat, or sugar, to make it taste better, which food industry does, but just the natural flavor.

• 32:20Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 32:21Mark Hyman?

  So, you know, the more flavorful the food is, the better it is. So, uh, it's wild, they eat a lot of wild food and it's so flavorful. Uh, the other thing was interesting was that shepherds, um, you know, had this culture of, of going and knowing exactly which plants to feed their animals at which time of year, to graze them. So with shepherd them, they need all these wild plants. But they know if this was, this herb was coming in at this time of year, they'd go eat this herb. And if this plant was coming in this time of year, they'd go eat that thing. I'm like, why are you doing that? He says, we know, but because the meat and the milk tastes better when we... Yeah, and so it kind of, you know, they were not doing it because it was better for them or because it was for longevity or because...

• 32:59Lewis Howes?

  Tastes better.

• 32:59Mark Hyman?

  Right, the cheese, yeah, tastes better. So it turns out that we know now that phytochemicals are not just in plants.

• 33:08Mark Hyman?

  And phyto means plant, right? They're not just in plants, they're also in animals. So the work of Fred Provenza and Steven Van Boeck from Duke have clearly shown that when animals are eating a wide array of wild plants or a wide array of, you know, you know, planted grasses and flowers and different things, they will seek out medicine in the food. So they will literally go and eat major, like, you know, calorie crops, let's say, but then they'll go and sample from like a hundred different plants to get their medicines. And so these, these wild animals, these wild plants are being eaten and the phytochemicals are accumulating in the meat and the milk of these animals.

• 33:49Mark Hyman?

  So studies have shown, for example, that you can have as high levels of the catechins in green tea in goat milk, that's from goats eating certain wild plants. Yeah, so it's my, my belief, and there may be ways that even these get transmuted. So eating regenerally raised meat, I went to a restaurant here in LA last night called Matu, where they have regenerally raised meat. It was amazing? It was amazing. Now, it wasn't as like fatty and like kind of like marble-like corn-fed meat, but it was delicious and it was tasty and yummy and amazing. What was this place called? Matu, M A T U. I'll have to check it out. Really good, Beverly Hills, and it's, you'd love it. It's so good. And, and, you know, you can eat that and know you're eating from an animal that's been well taken care of,

• 34:33Mark Hyman?

  that's living out in its natural habitat, that's regenerating the environment, that's storing the ecosystems, increasing biodiversity, conserving water in the soils, that's reducing climate change, that's producing more nutrient-dense food, that's rich in phytochemicals and good fats and more antioxidants and more minerals and just pretty much everything, so. Incredible. So that was a sort of a, I think, a key part of their longevity was they lived on this stuff. You know, they basically were shepherds and goats and sheep for their livelihood.

• 35:01Lewis Howes?

  What was about their relationships?

• 35:03Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Lewis Howes?

  How did that play in? Did they have certain types of relationships with family members? Did they have intimate relationships? Were they married for long periods of time? Did they have ten wives? You know, what was the whole?

• 35:14Mark Hyman?

  One couple I saw had a collective age of 210.

• 35:19Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 35:22Mark Hyman?

  So I don't know. I think, you know, being married is definitely a key to longevity for men. For women, not always. Depends on if they're happy or not.

• 35:31Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 35:32Mark Hyman?

  So I think having a happy, healthy relationship is such a key part of longevity. And they were very much in the realm of community. It wasn't just like this isolated relationship. They were embedded in a context of a community that was totally supportive, that celebrated together, that played together, that worked together, that, you know, harvested together, that shared sheep together, that, you know, made cheese together. They were just doing stuff together as part of the way of life. And so, and they would just stop and talk and hang out and like chill. And it was like, there was, nobody was like starting a company or, you know, nobody was like, you know, getting ahead in social media for likes and followers. I mean, they were just, they were just living life.

• 36:15Mark Hyman?

  They weren't striving or trying to get anywhere. They were just being.

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 36:19Mark Hyman?

  And so their culture was all about the power of these incredible moments where you share with people you love and care about and celebrate life and enjoy life and talk. We were, we were driving out of this one town in Sardinia that had these two guides that were really great and they were local Sardinians. And this car like stops in front of us and like blocks us. And this old guy gets out, he walks over this stone wall and he's like waves us to come over. And I'm like, what's going on here? And he just waved us over. He wanted to talk. He saw us in the car behind. He's like, he just wanted to talk. So we sat on the stone wall for like an hour or so and chit chatted about life and about his life. And he was car money, he was 85 years old. And Super vibrant, fit guy.

• 37:02Mark Hyman?

  And he started telling us about his life and how, you know, there was a mudslide that destroyed the village he grew up in, which they moved the town a little bit higher on the mountain. But he still had his farm on that old area. His old family land. So he took us down. He had like six sheep and he had a pig and he had some chickens and he had orchards and he had a whole garden where he grew eggplants and peppers and tomatoes and zucchini and herbs and spices and it was amazing. And he literally took care of his entire property by himself at 85 years old. I mean, I would, I don't think I could do it. And then I'm chasing this guy up this hill after his sheep and I'm like, I can't keep up with this guy. He's 85 years old. And, and so he was super vibrant, mentally sharp, you know, he's, he, you know, he lived with his, his family and, and they just, they just had this incredibly deep culture. There wasn't nursing homes.

• 37:47Mark Hyman?

  I meant, well, Julia, who was a hundred and three months, you know, like, like I say, I'm a hundred and, I'm five and three quarters. She's like, I'm a hundred and three months. And she was like, you know, uh, didn't have kids and lived with her niece and nephew who loved her and took care of her. And she was still working. She was still working, making all this stuff for weddings, all the little tablecloths and doilies and embroidery stuff. I don't, I don't know how about how to do that. She was making all this stuff and she was so bright and still was walking around every day and taking her walks and hanging out with everybody and her friends. And it was really amazing to see this culture where, you know, people were not ostracized or excluded, but, you know, they were included in life.

• 38:25Lewis Howes?

  And it doesn't sound like they're hustling for something. They're working hard to maintain their life, like their home, their farm, their land, their, whatever they had, maybe their small business, but they're not hustling for something greater. Is that right?

• 38:38Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Lewis Howes?

  Why, why, can you live long and still?

• 38:42Mark Hyman?

  Hustle.

• 38:43Lewis Howes?

  Hustle or just want more, want to build something greater in your life?

• 38:48Mark Hyman?

  I think you can. I think, I think it's really about, you know, what happens on the inside because, you know, one of the biggest, uh, things that regulates your epigenome is your mind. So your biggest pharmacy in your body is between your ears. It's the most powerful pharmacy in the world. And you can activate it for good or bad. So when we are having thoughts that are, you know, stressful thoughts, when we're in toxic relationships, when we're worried or anxious, when we aren't in harmony with ourselves, it activates all these really nasty pathways that drive inflammation and harm your mitochondria. I mean, your microbiome is listening in on your thoughts. It's eavesdropping.

• 39:31Mark Hyman?

  So those bugs don't like it when you are not happy.

• 39:34Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:35Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 39:35Lewis Howes?

  What is the process of that? From an idea, a thought into the mitochondria, how does that transfer into a healthy information, into a physical manifestation versus unhealthy information, data and a thought into physical unhealthy?

• 39:52Mark Hyman?

  So what's the biochemistry of it? Well, for example, if you're stressed, you're producing cortisol and adrenaline and all these other hormones and proteins that then will trigger a whole cascade of downstream effects that activate transcription factors, that transcription factors that turn on genes that cause inflammation and all these other problems. So you're basically, you know, creating inflammatory thoughts are creating inflammation in your body, literally.

• 40:18Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 40:20Mark Hyman?

  And you have receptors on your, like immune cells, for example, for neurotransmitters. So if you're stressed, your immune system is eavesdropping on your thoughts. That's why if you're stressed, you are more likely to have an infection or get sick or have other bad health consequences.

• 40:36Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think it is that our body is built this way that a thought can either make us feel and physically transform into joy and health or feel sick and then become sick? Why do you think our body?

• 40:49Mark Hyman?

  Why, from an evolutionary point of view?

• 40:51Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think that is? Isn't that crazy?

• 40:52Mark Hyman?

  It's a crazy thought, right?

• 40:53Lewis Howes?

  You think something, it's not actually, it's in your mind. Right, where it, you know, it's like, and then it transfers into your body.

• 41:00Mark Hyman?

  Well, I think, I think, I don't know, Lewis, but I think, you know, we have, have a built-in stress response system, which we need it. Like if we're getting chased by a saber-toothed tiger, well, you know, we need to get on a move.

• 41:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:11Mark Hyman?

  And we need to like

• 41:12Lewis Howes?

  Run.

• 41:13Mark Hyman?

  Jack up our cortisol and pump our blood sugar up and get our blood pressure up and then our heart rate up and flood our body with glucose and, you know, just all this stuff that needs to

• 41:22Lewis Howes?

  Survive, yeah.

• 41:22Mark Hyman?

  Make, it's like, you know, the story like how someone's, you know, sees their kid under a car and can lift up a car. Like, why can that happen, right? Because we have the system built in to deal with acute stress. And that's a good thing. The problem is we have a society and a life that drives chronic, unmitigated, unrelenting stress. So unless you are very clear about how to discharge that stress, because we can't avoid it, right, but how do you discharge it? How do you not react? And how do you have a different perception of relationship and what's happening to you?

• 41:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:53Mark Hyman?

  It's all about perception, right? So I always say stress is the perception of a real or imagined threat to your body. So it could be a real threat to your body, like a tiger chasing you, or it could be an imagined threat to your ego, like you think your wife's cheating on you, but she's not.

• 42:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 42:06Mark Hyman?

  And you get the same physiology. Or you can have the same input, let's say you're James Bond and I put a gun to your head versus Woody Allen, it's going to be a very different set of responses, right? Same in, input, very different response. So that's the beauty of, of our minds, is we have the power over our thoughts. You remember Viktor Frankl, who wrote Man's Search for Meaning? He said, between stimulus and response, there's a pause. And in that pause lies a choice. And in that choice lies our freedom.

• 42:34Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 42:34Mark Hyman?

  For those of you who don't know about Viktor Frankl, he was in Auschwitz, and he was a psychiatrist in Auschwitz, and he chose not to let Even the most horrific thing that's almost ever happened to human beings affect his own well-being and happiness and inner life.

• 42:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Mark Hyman?

  That just blows my mind, right?

• 42:52Lewis Howes?

  Unbelievable.

• 42:52Mark Hyman?

  So when you think, oh, my life, this and that, we always have a choice, you know? And whether you have stuff or don't have stuff, it's all about our perceptions. So mindset and your thoughts are a key part of longevity and health. And having meaning and purpose, that was the other thing in these cultures. They had so much meaning and purpose. Like Carmine had such a purpose. He had to go and take care of his sheep and he had to feed his family. And he wanted to support the other members of the community by giving them food. And he fed his animals the extra. And so he was, had a meaningful life. And he also had a very active mind, was reading books and learning all the time. So, you know, that, that extends your life up to seven years.

• 43:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Having meaning and purpose.

• 43:30Mark Hyman?

  Hmm.

• 43:31Lewis Howes?

  Because you hear the story sometimes of like, you know, someone in their older years, their husband or their wife dies and then within six months or a year later, they, they die.

• 43:41Mark Hyman?

  Or a week later, yeah.

• 43:42Lewis Howes?

  Or a week later, right? You hear that story often.

• 43:44Mark Hyman?

  All the time.

• 43:46Lewis Howes?

  And is that because their meaning has lost or just more they have a broken heart and they don't know how to?

• 43:52Mark Hyman?

  Both. I mean, I mean, there, there actually is a phenomena of, of a broken heart. I had a patient with this once who had this incredible wife. They were deeply in love. They were married for decades and decades. She got breast cancer and died.

• 44:02Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 44:03Mark Hyman?

  And he was relatively healthy and all of a sudden he went into heart failure.

• 44:06Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 44:07Mark Hyman?

  Like boom. And it's in the medical literature. It's literally a broken heart. And it causes actual clinical heart failure where your heart muscle can't pump the blood around.

• 44:17Lewis Howes?

  Now, that's from, what is that from? Is that from thinking?

• 44:21Mark Hyman?

  Yes.

• 44:21Lewis Howes?

  And then feeling the heart, you know, the pain in your heart?

• 44:24Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. It's the physiological phenomena that happen when you have a stress response, the flood of all these stress molecules in your body, the damages the heart. And we were able to get him better, but it was through energy healing, which sounds kind of wacky and weird. But it was really through his own, you know, getting back in his body, being touched, being held, being energetically reset. He was able to reverse the heart failure. It wasn't like taking some fancy drug or getting a heart transplant.

• 44:50Lewis Howes?

  So he didn't, he didn't pass away from that?

• 44:52Mark Hyman?

  No, he didn't.

• 44:53Lewis Howes?

  But some people do.

• 44:53Mark Hyman?

  We fixed it, yeah. But some people do.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  They might isolate themselves even more and then their body just starts to shut down.

• 45:00Mark Hyman?

  Loneliness is the biggest killer.

• 45:01Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 45:02Mark Hyman?

  Loneliness seems to be a bigger risk factor than smoking or bad food or almost anything else. What happens when we're lonely? Again, it's a stress. Like we're, we're social creatures, Louis. We all are meant to belong. We have a longing to belong. And if you look at it from an evolutionary point of view, you stick a human out in the desert or a forest by himself.

• 45:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, they're not gonna last long.

• 45:22Mark Hyman?

  Forget it, you know? And so this is not true just of humans, but it's all of creation. And E.L. Wilson, who was a Harvard professor, wrote many, many books. He's a very, he just died, but he was a very, very thoughtful guy. And he wrote a book called The Social Conquest of the Earth. And it's about how from ants to humans, we all work together. Like ant colonies, right? They're all working together. And so we have to work together to survive. And that's why altruism is actually a medicine. Altruism and serving and helping others actually activates healing mechanisms in our body.

• 45:53Lewis Howes?

  They're crazy.

• 45:53Mark Hyman?

  It activates dopamine in the same way that cocaine or heroin does.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  For people that don't have that type of discipline, how can they be consistent on the nutritional intake over a lifetime? And make it their lifestyle and not just a diet?

• 46:12Thomas DeLauer?

  Yeah, I mean, it's such a basic, good question that people always want to bring it back to like tracking and things like that. I think that, that doesn't, that, that works, tracking works. But you're talking about it at a deeper level, right? Because I, I experienced the same thing. I can have the most steadfast meditator monk that I'm talking to, and they will still battle with this, right?

• 46:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 46:37Thomas DeLauer?

  And it's some to the point where we have so much things, so many things that are just available at our fingertips that are just

• 46:44Lewis Howes?

  Temptations.

• 46:45Thomas DeLauer?

  Not, not in alignment with how we've continued to evolve as, you know, it's like we Technology and food production and the food industry is growing at an exponentially faster rate than how we are changing, right? So we have these things that are available that just simply shouldn't, and outside of putting yourself in a locker and like away from these foods, a total echo chamber, like you are fighting temptation all the time. And we have to recognize that there's only so much power in your prefrontal cortex. There's only so much-

• 47:14Lewis Howes?

  So much willpower, yeah.

• 47:15Thomas DeLauer?

  Like it's a finite resource. So with that, you have to kind of change your way of thinking. And the way that, like this occurred to me like three years ago or so, when I had, I had a really, really bad like sinus infection. And I've always had them kind of recurring sinus infections ever since I was little. But I had one that was really bad and I couldn't taste or smell for like two months, right? And that was something where I realized like, why am I still craving these certain foods? I can't even taste them, right? And it was like this aha moment where I'm like, this is clearly a mental thing because something sweet hits your taste buds, it's not just the taste of it, it's what it's doing in the brain. So changing your relationship with food, changing your relationship with struggle has been a very big thing, right? So for me, I always had this kinesthetic awareness thing with my workouts, right?

• 48:00Thomas DeLauer?

  With workouts, it was like if I inflicted pain upon myself and it was positive pain for a workout, I could flip this kinesthetic switch that was like, I called it my pain switch and I would flip that pain switch and you know, as a, as an athlete, like that's sometimes just what you do and it happens inadvertently. Sometimes you visualize it, but visualization is huge. So for me, I'd visualize flipping the pain switch. The switch is off, I can now push it harder and push it past my normal aerobic capacity, anaerobic, whatever. I realized, why can't I apply that same thing to nutrition without becoming robotic, but becoming very, very aware? And so I've changed my relationship with how food makes me feel. So like, and that's taken a lot of work.

• 48:39Lewis Howes?

  What do you say to yourself? What's the conversation, the inner dialogue, the, the mental strategy you use to do that?

• 48:46Thomas DeLauer?

  As simple as it sounds, whenever I would eat something for about two or three months, I would simply say like, food is fuel. Food is fuel. And that sounds very, because you don't want to take the fun out of it. I still love food, right? So with, when you do that, but you have to train yourself to believe that- Like, okay, if I'm eating this sugar, that's okay, but remember it's fuel and I should use it. Right? Or if I'm, and that's the thing here. So if I want to eat it, make sure I move my body, go for a 10 minute walk, walk up some stairs, move it a little bit, just get it out. When you change the relationship with food, you're not abstaining, you're, you're changing the reaction. Right? So like. And I should never have a bucket of ice cream and then just sit around. That's just the thing, right? It's like, if you're gonna do it. Eat it in the morning, eat it for breakfast, whatever.

• 49:31Thomas DeLauer?

  And then go move all day. Exactly. It's, so that relationship, I mean, it gets much bigger than that, right? But that relationship with food is everything. And so many of us have a distorted relationship with food. And for me being, I've been on opposite ends of sort of the spectrum, right? Like when I was younger, I was practically, you know, as a runner, I was practically eating disorder category, the other direction. Like I have to be as light as possible. Oh, I don't want to eat that. I don't want to get fat. And then it kind of went the other way. It was almost like masochistic where I'm just like, I don't care. I'm fat already. Let's just go all the way. Okay, now it's kind of like fine, a little bit of that middle ground, but the pendulum is probably swings much more towards how I was when I was younger. Got to stay lean, got to say this, but I also have recognized that my food, food is still reward.

• 50:16Thomas DeLauer?

  And we were constantly told that food shouldn't be treated as a reward. Don't reward your kids with food. I call on that. The reason is, is because like food has always been a reward. Right? It's always been a reward. You get to hunt and you get the food. Yeah. You go gather and you get some food. Yeah. It's simple, right? It's, what you have to do is you just have to, once again, change the relationship with the feelings attached to food. Recognize that those feelings are there, but do something with them rather than just let them, let them be and consume you. If I am going to go and eat that ice cream, then I'm aware of what that's doing in my body. And I'm not going to let that turn me the other direction and get depressed and go eat more. I'm gonna say, you know what? This is an opportunity, an opportunity to move more, an opportunity to move tomorrow.

• 51:00Thomas DeLauer?

  And that's not having this transactional relationship again, because what you don't want to do is say. I'm gonna eat some pie and now I'm gonna punish myself by going on the treadmill. That's the exact wrong thing to do, right? But you do say, okay, I'm gonna eat this pie. Great, I've got full glycogen tanks. I'm gonna go work out. I'm gonna get the best work out of my life. Having kids has really made this apparent. Because kids are constantly, I want a snack, I want a snack. It's like they have five stomachs, I don't understand that.

• 51:28Thomas DeLauer?

  And like, how do you, if they're reaching for like a Lara bar or something that I would still consider healthy, but has a decent amount of sugar from dates and stuff, right? Like, kids just crave these things. And how do I teach them that you, yeah, you can eat that, but we should really get out and move? And you know, it's kind of like, how I translate it to them is, hey, it's fun to feel good. It's fun to feel good, right? Like, you've got this energy from that bar, doesn't that feel good? Like, let's get out and let's use that energy, let's go have fun. And now it's to the point where my kids are like, can I have a Lara bar? I wanna go outside and play. I'm like, this is awesome, like, without actually like molding them in any weird way. I've helped them like light a spark to understand that like when they eat this,

• 52:11Thomas DeLauer?

  and at a young subconscious level in their brain, it's probably forming something that's beyond what we even know in research, where maybe they taste something sweet and now they naturally wanna move. Versus saying like, oh, shame, guilt, I shouldn't have eaten this, it's terrible. No, we're gonna go have fun, we're gonna play. And, but I teach them that with not just sugar, I teach them that with fats too. Because I think it's also fundamental to learn that all food is fuel. Yes. But be in touch with how it makes you feel. So how I retain that discipline is the exact same way. It's like, how do I feel? What did, what do I feel after I eat this? Did I feel crappy? Okay, well, then that's probably a pretty good articulation of what that's doing in my body. And with that, it's really turned into this intuitive eating.

• 52:56Thomas DeLauer?

  And that's like, I guess, I mean, it's a great segue to talk about how fasting has worked, right? Because fasting has allowed me to have more flexibility with my diet in the confines of still like appropriate discipline. Because I can flip that switch on and off a lot easier. Fasting, not fasting, fasting, not fasting.

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  And you're one of the, there's a few things I want to talk about here before I get into fasting. One is the mantra, it sounds like you had the mental switch, the mantra of food is fuel. So is that something you would think about right before you were making a decision of what to eat?

• 53:29Thomas DeLauer?

  No.

• 53:29Lewis Howes?

  You'd see something?

• 53:30Thomas DeLauer?

  Usually while eating it.

• 53:31Lewis Howes?

  While eating it. So it wasn't helping you make a decision of like, okay, here's a candy bar. Am I going to decide this is, is this going to help me and fuel me in a positive way or a negative fuel?

• 53:41Thomas DeLauer?

  That's too willpower-y. That's too, that takes too much energy.

• 53:44Lewis Howes?

  So you would still eat the candy bar if you needed, or if you did?

• 53:46Thomas DeLauer?

  While, while, yes. And granted, this was happening three, three and a half years ago. So candy bars weren't really in the equation anymore.

• 53:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 53:54Thomas DeLauer?

  But that being said-

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  Because of an apple or whatever.

• 53:56Thomas DeLauer?

  Yeah, or something like, because I would still crave fruit or, you know, whatever. But yes, exactly. It's like while I'm consuming it, it's like really trying to teach my body and understand like this visualization. You know the power of visualization, obviously, just yourself and the guests you've had on. It's like that visualization with eating something can be just as powerful.

• 54:15Lewis Howes?

  So you would say this as you're having a bite of the apple or whatever it might be, be having an internal conversation, food is fuel, and then having a positive relationship with something that might be looked at as negative before. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

• 54:29Thomas DeLauer?

  Precisely, yep.

• 54:30Lewis Howes?

  And training your body to appreciate the food and to say, okay, I'm going to go act and move my body after I eat this and it's going to help me, it's not going to hurt me, and I don't need to be shameful about eating this. Is that kind of the process?

• 54:43Thomas DeLauer?

  Yep.

• 54:43Lewis Howes?

  Because a lot of people that eat something and they, they feel good because it tastes good, then they feel shameful.

• 54:48Thomas DeLauer?

  Yes.

• 54:49Lewis Howes?

  And that doesn't help them because then they have more of that to have the good feeling and then feel shame again. And the cycle continues.

• 54:55Thomas DeLauer?

  Because what is happening here is much different than what's happening here.

• 54:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:00Thomas DeLauer?

  And, you know, in our world, we get this instant gratification from food, especially like the translation of, I see a direct correlation with my time scrolling social media and my addiction to my phone, direct line item correlation to how much I crave snacking and things like that. It's the same firing, you know, right? It's like that same dopamine itch that needs to be scratched. And just in the same way I get addicted to looking at my phone or checking my email, that usually correlates with how much my addiction to food is at that point in time. But like you don't just say like, I am going to like resist the urge to check my email. I'm going to resist the urge to check my email. Sometimes it takes like, what is the response? Like a lot of times, you know, you'll, you'll check your email first thing in the morning.

• 55:44Thomas DeLauer?

  You'll get a negative email and you, it hits you then you're like, this is how I'm starting my day? Like this is what I'm gonna do? Like screw that. And that's your catalyst. But like with food, you eat a Snickers bar and it feels so good up here. You feel like you're doing the right thing. It's amazing. Everything is telling you in that immediate moment that this was a good decision, Louis. Like you did the right thing. Your belly afterwards is like, oh, why is it digesting weird? And now I feel like lethargic and yeah. And you go out and you move and you try to do something with it. And yeah, you're going to have some fuel, but you're going to be like, you know what? It's crazy enough. That didn't feel as good as when I had that apple. And you start creating this internal checks and balances.

• 56:21Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter.

• 57:05Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.