The Identity Shift That Unlocks Wealth | Jen Sincero

Jen Sincero shares the moment she realized her biggest money block was believing financial success would hurt her father, the one person who showed love by slipping her twenties. You'll discover why your thoughts about money are keeping you broke even when you're working hard, and how changing your internal conversation from “I can't afford it” to “money flows to me easily and freely” can reshape your entire reality. Jen breaks down the uncomfortable truth that transformation means killing off the person everyone else loves, which is exactly why your closest relationships resist your growth. You'll walk away understanding that abundant people don't just think differently about money, they treat it like energy, speak about it with love, and do one scary thing every single day to stay outside their comfort zone. Jen’s books:You Are A BadassYou Are a Badass at Making MoneyYou Are a Badass EverydayBadass HabitsIn this episode you will:Discover why your money blocks are tied to your earliest memories of love and how healing your relationship with a parent can unlock financial freedomTransform your internal money dialogue from scarcity to abundance by understanding that your current reality is the lie, not your desiresBreak through the fear of losing relationships when you grow by recognizing that some people need you to stay small to feel comfortableMaster the daily practice of doing something that scares you because fear is your compass pointing toward growthLearn why hiring a coach or mentor when you're broke might be the most important investment you'll ever makeFor more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1859For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Rhonda Byrne – greatness.lnk.to/1848SCVivian Tu – greatness.lnk.to/1846SCLewis Howes [SOLO] – greatness.lnk.to/1810SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Lewis Howes?

  And I wanted to start with asking you a question about money and talking about money for a moment because because I feel like a lot of people are in fear around money right now. They're scared. They're uncertain of what's going to happen with all these things in the world around money and inflation and crisis and all these different things. I'm curious, with all of your research and all of your feedback from your audience with your book about money, what do you feel like is the number one thing that holds people back emotionally and mentally around believing that they are deserving of making the money they want?

• 0:41Jen Sincero?

  About the deserving piece. Oh, wow. Well, first of all, I think that a lot of people think it's not okay. Like, there's a real morality around making money.

• 0:53Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 0:54Jen Sincero?

  Because think about it, we really focus on greed. And when you desire money, it's not the same as being greedy, but I think that we combine those two things. And so, of course, if you decide that you want to make money, you don't tell people. I remember like when I was on my path to like, get rich. People were grossed out, you know?

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:15Jen Sincero?

  It's not, I mean, I always compare it to like, if I was like, I'm gonna lose 100 pounds, people were like, go you. But you're like, I'm gonna get rich. They're like, you're disgusting.

• 1:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:24Jen Sincero?

  You know, so there is a real judgment around it.

• 1:26Lewis Howes?

  Why is that? If someone's ambitious around making money and creating financial abundance for themselves, why is that?

• 1:32Jen Sincero?

  I think because there is an implied morality piece where you're gonna do things that are really bad for everybody involved. Like, you're gonna, money is the main goal, so you'll do anything to get rich. I think there is this really weird perception of that. And I do think that, you know, the news definitely focuses on all the evil that people do to make money. And so, you know, that you rarely hear about people giving lots of money your way or doing wonderful things with money. It really is about how evil the rich are.

• 2:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's more rare to hear. People are giving, but you don't hear about it though.

• 2:07Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, not so much.

• 2:08Lewis Howes?

  And it's also, here's the interesting thing. Because we've also been taught to diminish our giving, like to not talk about our giving.

• 2:17Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 2:17Lewis Howes?

  To make it anonymous. Don't brag that you're giving. Where I actually have started to prescribe to, maybe talk 50% of the time about what you're giving. And the other 50% of the time, it doesn't have to be, you know, you telling the world about it. But I think when you say, here's what I'm giving, it inspires other people to be generous and giving as well.

• 2:34Jen Sincero?

  Absolutely.

• 2:35Lewis Howes?

  And it doesn't have to be only money, but it can be your time, your energy, your resources in other way. But I think sharing about it sometimes empowers other people to be more generous as well.

• 2:45Jen Sincero?

  I agree. And it also takes away the stigma that you're an egomaniacal fat head and that you want like all the praise for being such a good guy. But, um, and why not? Like, we talk about other good things we do. It's just money. You know, I've written about sex. I've studied religion. Money is by far the most loaded.

• 3:03Lewis Howes?

  The most loaded.

• 3:04Jen Sincero?

  Absolutely. It's the dirtiest topic.

• 3:06Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:06Jen Sincero?

  I don't know why. And I don't, I really don't. I don't. It's interesting though, like, did your parents talk to you about money? You know, I grew up.

• 3:13Lewis Howes?

  So a little bit.

• 3:14Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 3:14Lewis Howes?

  A little bit, but, but there was stress around money.

• 3:17Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 3:18Lewis Howes?

  Which caused it to feel more unsettling. So there was some conversation, but mostly the conversation was stressful. Or their relationship wasn't peaceful.

• 3:27Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  So I was like, okay, well, if they're not peaceful, but they're working really hard and money is tied to working hard, then something must be off.

• 3:34Jen Sincero?

  Exactly.

• 3:35Lewis Howes?

  And it wasn't a money issue. It was just an emotional healing issue.

• 3:39Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 3:39Lewis Howes?

  And that just happened to be mixed in with money.

• 3:41Jen Sincero?

  Yes. And so in your little brain, you put it attached to money and make stress. Yeah.

• 3:46Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. What was your perception of money before you started to make it versus when you started to make it?

• 3:53Jen Sincero?

  Well, I grew up in a super WASP-y household. So, you know, we don't discuss money like it's, you know, dirty and uncouth. Never learned anything about it at all. Uh, and.

• 4:04Lewis Howes?

  No education around it?

• 4:06Jen Sincero?

  Oh, no. Oh, my God, no. Like, nothing. And, um, and so when I, so I was very of the mind that it wasn't cool to want to make money. You know, the unholy dollar, like I was a rock and roller. So I was like more about the art and, um.

• 4:23Lewis Howes?

  And you're not gonna sell yourself out.

• 4:25Jen Sincero?

  Exactly. Selling out. Like, what a concept. Selling out basically means you're getting paid for doing what you love. Like, why is that so bad? Right? And then the whole starving artist crap and all that stuff. Yeah, and that rich people sucked and I was too cool to focus on money. I also believed I sucked at making it, which was the truth. I also had a weird feeling that like I was, it was almost like a different species. It's almost like me, there's me and then there's grownups, right? And I felt that way about money too. Like there's me and there's people who actually make like real money and have big houses and fancy cars and like do stuff like. But I was, I was like the child version of that, you know, always sitting at the kid table financially.

• 5:04Jen Sincero?

  And so it was a total identity shift that I had to go through where it was like that I could open myself up to like being somebody who could receive that kind of wealth. It was a real big shift for me.

• 5:16Lewis Howes?

  Do you think we have to go through an identity shift in order to see money differently? And to be able to receive it differently?

• 5:22Jen Sincero?

  I think you do, absolutely. It's a really great way to go at it.

• 5:26Lewis Howes?

  So what was your, you know, the key words around your identity with money? When you didn't have much versus the key words that you would speak about within yourself? Or what money is, once you started to unlock more money?

• 5:40Jen Sincero?

  Well, it wasn't necessarily around identity, my words, because I did have two very serious mantras. But there was a lot of visualizing myself with money. And like I, I wrote about buying the Audi and you are a bad and like, I'm not the kind of person who drives an Audi. Are you kidding me? Like, and like almost feeling like this, the guy who is like test drove it with me and be like, get out of here. I know who you are.

• 6:02Lewis Howes?

  You can't afford this.

• 6:03Jen Sincero?

  Exactly. So, um, so, but my mantra is really like, and before I started making money, I said, I can't afford it. Pretty much anything you could throw at me. My first words out of my mouth were, I can't afford it. And I.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  What are we doing when we're, we're saying that? Whether it's true or not true?

• 6:21Jen Sincero?

  We are buying into an identity as somebody who can't afford stuff. We are also proving it. You know, what you speak, you want to prove because you want to be right. And it is sort of the foundation of your reality. So when I say I can't afford it a hundred times a day, I'm subconsciously pulling in proof. Like, look at the car I'm driving. I'm living in an alley. Like I make this much money a year. I'm I'm building all the foundational blocks to prove that I can't afford it. And that becomes my reality. And then that becomes my, I like to call it familiarity zone because comfort zones are not comfortable.

• 6:55Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 6:56Jen Sincero?

  Right? So so then I'm just proving it over and over and over. And that becomes my reality. And then to shift out of that, um, literally means to obliterate your reality and your identity, right? So that's why.

• 7:10Lewis Howes?

  It's like an explosion. It's like you have to have like a death and explosion, a bomb almost to go off.

• 7:16Jen Sincero?

  It does. And it's killing off your old identity. And this is why I'm going to totally go off on a segue here. But this is why, like, the number one question I get at my talks is, what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth? And the main reason they don't support it because because you're killing off the person they love.

• 7:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 7:34Jen Sincero?

  I mean, think about that, like, you're changing who you are, and they're comfortable with who you are. And they feel that's their reality, too, is is caught up in who you are being. So when you decide to change, you're killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you're screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.

• 7:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:52Jen Sincero?

  So it's really a thing.

• 7:54Lewis Howes?

  It's so interesting. I was I was telling someone on my team this a few weeks ago, that in the different seasons of my life, from 18 until now, I have had all these amazing experiences from school to sports teams to moving to new cities to finding new groups and communities. And a lot of them, I've outgrown in certain ways, or just transitioned out of, maybe not outgrown, but just I've gone to do other things and continue to try to evolve. I'm not saying I'm better than, but I've continued to try to evolve and let go of the old me. And and some of them don't like it. And I lose friends.

• 8:34Jen Sincero?

  Totally.

• 8:34Lewis Howes?

  In the process of changing myself, reinventing myself, letting go of old behaviors and stepping into a different, you know, identity. And it's not easy.

• 8:44Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 8:44Lewis Howes?

  To have communities that you love and people you are familiar with and hanging out with that support you and you go to parties and do whatever activities. And then all of a sudden, they stop returning your calls.

• 8:54Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Lewis Howes?

  And they stop texting you back. And you feel sad, hurt, you know, disappointed.

• 9:01Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 9:01Lewis Howes?

  That you're trying to go somewhere, and they don't support that. It's a scary time.

• 9:05Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, it is. It's very lonely. That's why it's lonely at the top.

• 9:09Lewis Howes?

  What what suggestions do you give to people then who are shifting their identity? Stepping into a new reality for themselves and their friends don't like it, their family doesn't like it, their communities don't like it, and they're telling them to, hey, come back and hang out with us. What's, what do you say to them?

• 9:24Jen Sincero?

  Well, first of all, really make the decision, are you gonna stay small and shrink just so that you can be around those people and make them comfortable? Or is your comfort more important and your growth more important? And also, it doesn't serve them either. Like, if you all stay at the same low level, because not everybody ditches you. There are some people that are just like, oh, my God, you inspire the crap out of me. I'm gonna do it too.

• 9:46Lewis Howes?

  It's true.

• 9:46Jen Sincero?

  Right? So focus, it's all where you place your focus, right? And then also focus on who you're gonna meet now that you're getting big.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:55Jen Sincero?

  Right? Those exciting, inspiring people who are turned on by the same things you are, who are doing the same things you are. Like, it's all about where you put your focus.

• 10:03Lewis Howes?

  And you can only, I mean, I really only have maybe five to seven close friends that I can actually spend meaningful time with. Outside of my girlfriend, which I spend a lot of time with, outside of my team, which I'm spending time with during the day.

• 10:16Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 10:16Lewis Howes?

  There's only so many nights and weekends that I can spend quality time with people.

• 10:19Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Lewis Howes?

  And you may need to open up space to inviting people that are at a, I don't know, an awareness or a support or a level of thinking that you wanna be at as well.

• 10:31Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 10:31Lewis Howes?

  Um, to, to create that time and connection with. So.

• 10:35Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 10:35Lewis Howes?

  It's scary, though.

• 10:37Jen Sincero?

  If it's not scary, you're doing something wrong, though, right?

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  That's true. So how old were you when, when things started to shift psychologically, mentally, and emotionally? And did you create a bomb? Was it more of a slow breakthrough for you in shifting this identity and this old skin?

• 10:54Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, yeah, I was 40. It was in my 40s. Yeah, you know, I really struggled and suffered for way too long. I mean, don't get me wrong, I had a fun life. Like, I was going on road trips and I was in a band and I was doing all the things I wanna do. But financially, I was just.

• 11:12Jen Sincero?

  So stuck and stubborn in my thinking, you know? And so that's actually how I finally picked up a self-help book. Like I was, I mean, self-help was as ugly as making money was for me. I was very scared I'd die and they'd find him in my house because I was too cool. And, uh, and that's when I was just like, I have got to do something. And, um, that's when I started reading them when I was sort of end of my thirties, beginning of my forties. But it was in my forties that I hired my first life coach. And went totally into debt for it, like put it on my credit card, called her and begged her for the money back. And luckily she was a great coach. She's like, that could be the most important money you ever spend.

• 11:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:50Jen Sincero?

  And then I was like, front row, doing every single, single thing she said. And luckily she was an excellent coach and I tripled my income in like three months and.

• 11:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:58Jen Sincero?

  And then once things, once I saw myself do that, then I was like, okay, this works, this works. And then I was just a straight A student, just doing all the things.

• 12:06Lewis Howes?

  Just kept showing up.

• 12:07Jen Sincero?

  Oh, I kept doubling my rates and kept cold calling and doing all the stuff that I was just like, but, but it was so cool at the same time. Like it was so fun because one of the things about being stuck is that life force that's going through all of us, right? Like it was about the money, but it wasn't about, it was about the money. Money is great. I don't want to, you know, I love having money. It's so, it's just freedom and options, right? Money is just freedom and options and who does not want that all day long? But also it was about the life force that, that I knew I could be doing better. And there was just so much Jenson Cero that wanted to like go shine, basically, right? And, and I was blocking it off.

• 12:50Jen Sincero?

  I could just feel it. So it was just this clogging and this like frustration that once I hired the coach, like I was, I was in the game and I was, I was playing and I was taking risks and I was doing stuff I'd never done before. And it was so exciting. It was so alive, you know? It's a life force. Money is currency and currency is energy and that energy is a life force.

• 13:13Lewis Howes?

  And when you were feeling stuck financially and around money, was it more of a thinking or a feeling in your body and an emotional connection to it? Or was it both?

• 13:24Jen Sincero?

  Both, definitely both.

• 13:26Lewis Howes?

  What was the thought and what was the feeling tied to it?

• 13:28Jen Sincero?

  The thought was, I am never gonna get out of this. I'm 40, I'm living in a garage in an alley. I've never been able to make money. It's just not something I personally can ever do. And then more subconsciously, you know, lots of things subconsciously, but you know, it's not okay to do it. I discovered that I had a really, the biggest block for me was, if I get really rich, I will, my father, who wasn't able to show love very comfortably, would always give me a 20 or...

• 14:03Lewis Howes?

  That was his way of...

• 14:04Jen Sincero?

  Yep, and I was like, if I get rich, I don't need dad anymore. And it's like putting a knife in his heart.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 14:09Jen Sincero?

  That one blew everything open for me when I realized that. And, um, and so, yeah, so those were the things. But it was really hopelessness, just like frustration and hopelessness, like, how am I ever gonna get out of this? And then, and then I guess, you know, the feeling was hopelessness, despair, sadness, anger, frustration.

• 14:30Lewis Howes?

  Resentment.

• 14:30Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, resentment, yeah, everything.

• 14:32Lewis Howes?

  Now, did you resent people with money back then? Was it like, oh, you know, screw them, they're entitled, they have this?

• 14:39Jen Sincero?

  Anybody who talked about it, I was really resentful of. I was like, shut up.

• 14:43Lewis Howes?

  Don't talk to me around here.

• 14:44Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:46Lewis Howes?

  And what happens if we don't speak about money in a healthy way?

• 14:50Jen Sincero?

  We perpetuate it as being the big boogeyman. Yeah, and, and I think anything that's hush hush has, you know, and I do, I relate it to sex all the time. Like, we're all supposed to be really good at sex, but you're never allowed to talk about it, and you certainly don't learn about it, you know? So it's like this weird, mysterious, dirty thing. It really is. I mean, it's dirty. Money is dirty. You know, don't want your dirty money, like... You know what I mean?

• 15:16Lewis Howes?

  It's dirty until you don't make it dirty, right?

• 15:19Jen Sincero?

  Exactly. Exactly. So just by like airing it out and talking about it and being joyful about it and talking about what you do with it joyfully and sharing it and making it and being happy that you made it and not, you know, it's so not a big deal. And it's like, we all need it. You know, it's so funny. I always think like, you know, if I told the average person like, I'm gonna give you 10,000 bucks, I'd be like, sweet. And then, you know, but talking about like, how do you feel about rich people? How do you feel about people who make tons and tons of money? And the disparity, you know, the difference between that, like you want it, but there's still dirtiness around it, which is why I put in two of my books to write that letter to money, because it's a really interesting exercise.

• 15:59Lewis Howes?

  You wrote like a love letter to money?

• 16:01Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, you just write a letter to money as if it's a person almost. So it's like, I love you. I wish I had more of you, but I don't trust you and I feel like a dirty for even saying that. And, you know, all, so all the, all the things. And then you can see what you got going on.

• 16:15Lewis Howes?

  This is a topic that I've been fascinated about for decades because I didn't have money at one point. Also, I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half. Um, I couldn't pay for the rent. I didn't buy food. I was just like living off of her for a year and a half while I was recovering from a surgery. A wrist that I broke playing football. And I was afraid of it. My father also got into a pretty um, bad car accident a year prior to me getting injured where he was kind of that like lifeline for me where he'd give me a hundred bucks when I needed it and paid for things and just said, hey, you know, go live your dreams. And when you're done, well, we'll figure out what you're gonna do with the job. He got in a car accident. He had extreme head trauma, was in a coma for three months.

• 16:58Jen Sincero?

  My god.

• 16:58Lewis Howes?

  Ended up surviving, but wasn't able to work anymore. So he was physically alive, emotionally and mentally kind of not here. So he, he passed a year ago, but it was 17 years of him struggling, right, to try to recover. So I had this, you know, father backup to support me financially in a sense. I mean, just give me a 20 or a hundred bucks here and there. And he was no longer able to do that.

• 17:26Jen Sincero?

  Wow.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  So I remember being fascinated by this conversation 20 years ago because I was like, I don't understand it. I don't know how to make it. Um, I don't know why anyone would give me money. You know, where's my value come from? Like, how am I gonna ask someone for money? When I don't even know what skills or values I have?

• 17:44Jen Sincero?

  Right, right, right.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  And early on, I started to learn from these mentors and coaches teaching me about money. And one of them was around the way we speak about money. Because if we are essentially saying this is bad and evil, or I'm not good enough for this, then why would that thing come to us if we think it's bad and evil? We're gonna be rejecting it, or if we don't think we're deserving of it, why would we receive it? Why would we bring it into us?

• 18:11Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 18:12Lewis Howes?

  And so I had to really shift this conversation, you know, 20 years ago around money and do what you talk about, which is just having more open conversations. Not talking about it like it's this hush-hush thing, but just being more open and conversational and not being so emotionally heightened when you talk about it. And learn from a peaceful place of talking about it. So I love that you have this write a letter to money.

• 18:36Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Lewis Howes?

  And really, I tell people, like, if you want your money to appreciate, you must appreciate.

• 18:43Jen Sincero?

  Exactly.

• 18:44Lewis Howes?

  And treat it like you're the greatest lover of your life.

• 18:47Jen Sincero?

  Right, yes.

• 18:48Lewis Howes?

  Treat it like if you want your partner to be investing in you and to be giving you words of affirmation and a physical touch and like gifts, if you want all these love languages, then you've got to pour into it, appreciate the partner you're with.

• 19:02Jen Sincero?

  Absolutely.

• 19:03Lewis Howes?

  Tell them how grateful you are every day. Tell them what you love about them, what you see in them. And when you appreciate a person, like you said, or if you appreciate money, it can appreciate in value and come to you in return.

• 19:16Jen Sincero?

  Absolutely. It's energy. And it really, that like, money is currency and currency is energy. Like, like, I had to hear it like 6,000 times before I really got that money is energy. It's a frequency. So when you raise your frequency and get into alignment with it, and that whole alignment thing is all about none of the limiting beliefs, just being in surrender and in alignment and having it flow in. So.

• 19:46Jen Sincero?

  At the beginning, you asked me what my words were. So at first, it was, "I can't afford it." And then I eventually went to, "Money flows to me easily and freely." And this is still while I was living in the garage, still while I was so in debt. But I had started doing all the energy work around it. And I was like, "All right, what are my blocks?" Like, when you write a new mantra, it's all about like, really, like, the letter to money. Like, what just kept coming up? And that I was stuck and that it was hard and that I didn't know what I was doing. So there was like, hard and stuck and confusion. So flowing easily and freely was just like... Yeah, even though I did not believe it at first, like, it wasn't about believing it. It was about the feeling, because we are emotional creatures.

• 20:30Jen Sincero?

  And, you know, that emotion, the frequency of emotions, was, you know, the flowing, the easily and freely flowing, was really, really powerful for me.

• 20:38Lewis Howes?

  So now, when you write a statement or a mantra that you're wanting to step into, but you don't believe it yet, is that lying to yourself? Or how do we overcome this thing that, "Okay, this is what I want, and this is what I'm stepping into, and the feelings I want to experience, but I don't have it yet." And that's not actually true yet.

• 20:57Jen Sincero?

  Okay, I'm just gonna say, if you are not successful at what you want to be successful for and you're feeling stuck, you're already lying to yourself. Because you're buying into the identity that is not in the flow. So that's the lie. So "Money flowing to me easily and freely" because I live in an abundant universe and I'm a creature who receives, that is the truth. So even though the identity that I'm in is not believing it yet, it doesn't matter. What matters is that I'm feeling it. So I always tell people, like, you don't have to believe it at first, but you have to feel it. So that's why what the words make you feel like are the most important part about it. So "ease" and "free" and "flow"

• 21:41Jen Sincero?

  was the most important part of that.

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like, okay, you said you were around 40 years young when this kind of happened. Was there something in your life that was like, "I'm just sick and tired of feeling this way after two decades"? Or, like, "I just want to see what's possible for me in this next decade"? Or is there something around that time that made you say, "All right, this hasn't worked for 40 years of my life."

• 22:02Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 22:03Lewis Howes?

  "Now I'm gonna try something different."

• 22:04Jen Sincero?

  You know, I think it was, there really wasn't like, I didn't almost get hit by a bus, or, you know, I just... First of all, it's so boring being broke. Like, you can't do anything, right? Really, you can't do anything. So, and, and I think it was just sort of a, it's almost like I ripened, you know? It's almost like, how many times do you hear something before it's the aha moment? You know, why does that suddenly happen? I think you just finally are in a place where you can hear it for some reason. So, I had started reading the self-help books and I was really into it. And, you know, I made a bunch of half attempts at like getting my act together. But I think it was just, I think I just ripened and then I, I made the decision. Like, I think really living in, and, and it was like a one-car garage.

• 22:49Jen Sincero?

  Like, it was small. And I think after a little while of that, I was like,

• 22:54Lewis Howes?

  I'm sick and tired of this.

• 22:55Jen Sincero?

  Oh, on, I am 40 years old, you know? I can do better than this.

• 23:00Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 23:00Jen Sincero?

  And so, I think I was just so sick of myself.

• 23:04Lewis Howes?

  My, my friend Dean Graziosi says, "We pay attention to what we pay for." Do you think you making this investment in a coach made you pay attention more to, "Okay, now I gotta make my money back and I'm gonna make more than my money back. So, I'm gonna focus, I'm gonna do all the painful things that she tells me to do, and I'm gonna be the best student I can be." Is that what your thought was because you invested?

• 23:29Jen Sincero?

  Definitely. And I will say though, is I've had clients pay me lots of money and not do a damn thing. So, it's not a guarantee. So, that is part of it for sure, because I've also given like free coaching sessions to my friends. And it's like the biggest waste of all of our time, right? But, um, so I do think that the exchange of money is very, very real. But I think more importantly, your attitude and the decision.

• 23:52Lewis Howes?

  It's deciding.

• 23:53Jen Sincero?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:54Lewis Howes?

  Because you can decide to invest, but you're still not committed to taking the action and doing whatever it takes.

• 23:58Jen Sincero?

  Absolutely, and I've gotten, been given things for free, especially at that time in my life. Like, anything I could get my hands on, I was a straight A student. So, the money did have something to do with it, but I was ready.

• 24:07Lewis Howes?

  But you were also committed in free, pay, whatever.

• 24:10Jen Sincero?

  I was so ready, no, I was.

• 24:11Lewis Howes?

  You were all in.

• 24:12Jen Sincero?

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 24:12Lewis Howes?

  And before, you weren't committed.

• 24:14Jen Sincero?

  Yes, exactly.

• 24:15Lewis Howes?

  Because you had the emotional blocks that were just half.

• 24:17Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, and so I do think it was that sort of, it's sort of like the water hitting the rock. And then it's the Grand Canyon, you know? Like, reading the self-help books, like, I did, I had started that a couple of years before the garage. So, I was sort of priming myself and then finally, I was just like, I'll do anything.

• 24:33Lewis Howes?

  I'm in, let's do this. What was the book that really inspired you the most?

• 24:37Jen Sincero?

  The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Waddles.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 24:40Jen Sincero?

  I mean, not only because it's like this big because I'm super impatient, but I mean, it's super cryptic. It's like, it's all about the universe being a thinking stuff. And when you impress your thoughts into the thinking stuff, it becomes real and material world. And I just, I just, it really, really, really spoke to me. I've read it hundreds of times.

• 24:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 24:59Jen Sincero?

  Yes. Yeah.

• 25:01Lewis Howes?

  What was the biggest takeaway from that book?

• 25:03Jen Sincero?

  Oh, so happy you asked because I talk about this line all the time is to think what you want to think is to think the truth regardless of appearances. So this is everything, right? So mindset is everything. So regardless of appearances, regardless of the fact that I'm living in a garage in L.A., driving a car with no grill, like those are the appearances. But to think what you want, and I think the want is so key too, because that's your, that's your authenticity. That's not like thinking what other people think you should do and how you should live your life. To think what you want, the purpose that you were put on planet earth to live out, that's the truth. That is the truth. So your desires are the truth, not what's physically around you.

• 25:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So how do we know that we are in harmony and congruency with our desires? That it's for something not just selfish and self-serving by itself or ego-driven, but more, I don't know, driven by something greater, you know? Because if someone says, well, I want to make a lot of money, or I want to make a hundred thousand dollars in a year, or 500,000, or whatever it is, or millions. How do we line up our desires with our authentic selves so that we don't hurt ourselves in the process of making money? Or become overwhelming, daunting, or draining?

• 26:25Jen Sincero?

  I think you always come back to, is it fun?

• 26:31Jen Sincero?

  Does it give me energy or deplete my energy? And does it have meaning? Those are the three things that I'm really living my life by these days. And I think that if you're in alignment with those three things, and other things certainly, but those are sort of my big three.

• 26:48Lewis Howes?

  Is it fun? Does it give me energy? And does it give me meaning?

• 26:50Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, and is it meaningful? Yeah.

• 26:52Lewis Howes?

  Is it meaningful?

• 26:52Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 26:54Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Lewis Howes?

  And where were you at 39? Doing things that weren't fun? That drained your energy and didn't give you meaning?

• 27:00Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I was a freelance writer hustling my butt off. And then like when I really did the math, I was like, the amount of time I spent hustling for this gig, and they don't pay that well, like magazine articles, come on. I was making like, I was probably losing money, quite frankly.

• 27:16Jen Sincero?

  So, um, yeah, no, there was, there was none of that. It was not fun. It was exhausting. It had some meaning, but you gotta get all three, you know? Yeah.

• 27:25Lewis Howes?

  Or at least start working towards it. Cause you may not be able to at this season, but you gotta focus on, can I, can I get one?

• 27:31Jen Sincero?

  Can I get one? And is it leading in the direction of something that is fun? That is gonna give me energy and has meaning? Cause you're right, like when you're building a company or when you're doing something like, it is exhausting. And, but if it's still exciting and fun and has meaning, then yeah, yeah, it doesn't get to be a picnic all the time.

• 27:47Lewis Howes?

  When was the biggest aha moment for you then? Like, was it after you made a certain amount of money? Or a client paid you something? Or was it just a feeling you had? Like releasing all of it in the process of working? Like, when was that moment where you're like, I'm actually emotionally and mentally free around the idea of money?

• 28:06Jen Sincero?

  Oh, interesting.

• 28:09Lewis Howes?

  Maybe I'm not abundant of money.

• 28:11Jen Sincero?

  I will tell you, no, I actually did. And I did put it in You Are a Badass. I put it in one of them. It was when I, I had, oh my God, it was such a cool moment. So. Because money is currency and currency is energy, right? So we're really gonna get woo woo with the money.

• 28:26Lewis Howes?

  I like it.

• 28:26Jen Sincero?

  Really shifting the mindset around money. And I, and bring me back to my story if I go off on a tangent because I'm about to go off on a tangent. I want to remember, but I.

• 28:37Lewis Howes?

  Money is currency and currency is energy.

• 28:39Jen Sincero?

  Yes, money is currency, currency is energy. And I've had so many clients that have told me, and it's happened to me too, where they manifest when they get into the meditation and they start to raise their frequency.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:49Jen Sincero?

  And they focus on the amount, the exact amount comes in from outer space that you didn't even think of. And so my story is around that where I was working with my coach and we were really gonna shift my money reality. And so she's like, you know, what amount of money would be really great for you to make right now? Like what would have a lot of meaning? And I was like $10,000 because I'm $10,000 in debt on my credit card and I hate being in debt. She's like, perfect. And so she's like, okay, so how soon are you gonna make it? And she goes, you know, like about a week, two weeks. Because I, you know, and I was at the time making like 30 grand a year. I was like, my God, if I made 10,000 in a week, that would be incredible. And I was like, but you know what? I gotta do it in two days because I know myself and I won't keep myself in that frequency. Like I'll lose steam and I'll decide that like, nah, it's not, I can't do it or whatever.

• 29:34Jen Sincero?

  Like I knew that the stuff would start creeping back in. So I was like, all right, 10 grand in two days. She's like, great, okay, so how are you gonna do it? And at the time I had this little online coaching business that I had just started coaching writers. And I was like, I'll get three private clients, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then we're, you know, putting all the pieces in place. And then she's like, okay, and is there anything else? And I was like, well, you know, there was this guy that I was coaching years ago. He was my first private client. I was charging him like 50 bucks an hour. And I was like, I could also call him and see if he wants to work with me again. And she's like, okay, great. And we're still on the phone and I checked my email and he has written me. I have not thought of this matter, communicated with him in years. Email, he's like. You know, are you still coaching? Can you help me?

• 30:19Jen Sincero?

  When can we start?

• 30:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:21Jen Sincero?

  And so she's like, okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna put together a $10,000 package for him and you're gonna sell it to him right now.

• 30:27Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 30:28Jen Sincero?

  I know, and I was like, $10,000. I was charging him 15 bucks an hour. I was, and I really adore him. He's such a special person. And I was like, felt like, you know, a greedy pig. Blah, blah, blah, all the things. Fraud complex, gigantic.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  Imposter syndrome.

• 30:44Jen Sincero?

  Oh, beyond, beyond. And so she's like, and what we'll do is we'll put together $15,000 package and a 10 so that the 10 looks cheap. And I was like, I can't do 15. She's like, all right, 12. Pain in my ass. So did a 12, sent it to him and literally wanted to throw up. I was just like, if he, I, cause I really cared about this guy. He bought the 12.

• 31:04Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 31:04Jen Sincero?

  I know.

• 31:07Lewis Howes?

  You're like, I should have been a 15.

• 31:08Jen Sincero?

  I know, exactly. I know.

• 31:10Lewis Howes?

  Well, here's the thing, you know, it's not like you were charging him 12 dollars on an hour. Obviously you created a positioning and packaging of services that would over deliver, that would serve him a big way.

• 31:20Jen Sincero?

  I worked with him for five years after that.

• 31:21Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 31:22Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  So it's not like, I'm just gonna charge some number and then give very little.

• 31:27Jen Sincero?

  Oh, no.

• 31:27Lewis Howes?

  You made sure that the value was there.

• 31:29Jen Sincero?

  Totally.

• 31:30Lewis Howes?

  How did you learn to package and position your value to be able to charge for what you wanted?

• 31:34Jen Sincero?

  My coach helped me put it all together, but then I had to rise to that frequency. And I'll tell you, you know, when you're charging something that scares out of you, you show up with your A plus game like, and he did too. Like it was a lot for him too. We knocked it out of the park.

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  Cause you pay attention to what you pay for.

• 31:48Jen Sincero?

  Yes, yes, yeah, totally.

• 31:50Lewis Howes?

  You'll rise to the occasion, like, I gotta focus.

• 31:52Jen Sincero?

  Yes, yeah.

• 31:53Lewis Howes?

  I gotta show up on time. I gotta deliver the results on time.

• 31:56Jen Sincero?

  Absolutely.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  Give my best here.

• 31:58Jen Sincero?

  Yep.

• 31:58Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So now here's, I'm curious about the next thing. Was that everything to the story first off? I wanna make sure I get it.

• 32:05Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Money is currency and currency is energy. I'm curious about the next thing. So once this happened and you sold a $12,000 package and you were like, this is crazy and this is more money than I've ever made in my life, essentially, in two days. Did you fall back at any point or did you stay focused?

• 32:23Jen Sincero?

  Oh, interesting.

• 32:25Lewis Howes?

  Sometimes people get an opportunity and they're excited and then, well, I tried it again and it didn't work. So maybe this is a fluke, maybe this was a one time and then the thermometer goes back down to what they're comfortable and familiar with.

• 32:38Jen Sincero?

  Very common, very common. I did not, but only because I continued to get coaching and I got bigger and bigger and bigger packages. I mean, I was paying six figures by the end.

• 32:48Lewis Howes?

  Hundred grand for like a year of coaching or? Wow.

• 32:51Jen Sincero?

  So I just, because I knew myself, I was like, I am rickety in this whole sort of wealth consciousness department. So I knew that I had, it's like getting a personal trainer, right? So I just kept investing in the coaching and now, now I'm good, but I do still have to work at it. I mean.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  It's different levels.

• 33:07Jen Sincero?

  It's different levels, you know?

• 33:08Lewis Howes?

  You feel comfortable at this level, but if you want to break through.

• 33:11Jen Sincero?

  Exactly.

• 33:12Lewis Howes?

  And do something you've never done, it means you've got to have a different frequency still, right?

• 33:16Jen Sincero?

  Exactly. You get, you know, yep, there's always more growth to be had.

• 33:19Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you're kind of at like a block right now? Because again, you've sold, you know, I don't know, five or 10 million copies of your books. You've got coaching program, you've got all these quarterly success, financial freedom, all these different things. But is there like a level you've reached that you feel like, okay, well, can I break through? This is so much now and I feel abundant, but could you break through?

• 33:41Jen Sincero?

  If I want, if I could decide what I want the next thing to be at, I'm still in that sort of incubation period of like, what would be fun? Give me energy and that meaning. I'm getting there. Like I definitely feel like I'm getting there and I'm doing a lot of things that meet those requirements in the meantime, but it's not the big.

• 33:58Lewis Howes?

  What's your biggest, what's your biggest fear or insecurity around money right now?

• 34:02Jen Sincero?

  That I don't know what to do with it when I make it. Like I'm good at making it. My bookkeeper called me one day and she's like, would you please just open a savings account at your bank? Cause I had like a million dollars in my checking account. This was a while ago. I finally got my act. So I've hired financial plan, like I've hired people who are grownups who know what they're doing with money. But like, I'm teaching myself about it, but I find it boring. I find investing boring and confusing and out of my league. So luckily, there are amazing people who know what they're doing. So I have finally gotten that team together.

• 34:34Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 34:36Jen Sincero?

  And there is a little tiny part of me, if I gave it any attention, that is a little scared it's all gonna go away.

• 34:43Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 34:43Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, but I don't, I'm not, it's not that bad. And I probably should not even speak it out loud.

• 34:47Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 34:47Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 34:48Lewis Howes?

  Well, you're being, you're being honest about it. I think there's one thing about speaking it out loud so it doesn't happen. But another thing about saying it so it doesn't have power of view.

• 34:55Jen Sincero?

  Right. Oh, yeah. Okay.

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's like, if you're afraid of it, like you're afraid to have the conversation around money.

• 35:01Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 35:01Lewis Howes?

  I'm all believer, like, don't speak into something into this, as you don't want that to happen. But I think, you know, when I started talking about my fears, my shame and my insecurity, it actually felt like the poison was coming out of me. And now I can see it outside of me, or I could have a conversation with it as opposed to it being in me and afraid to talk about.

• 35:21Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  And then I could get coaching about it.

• 35:23Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 35:24Lewis Howes?

  And then I could, okay, let me create a game plan. Okay, well, I'm afraid of it, but now I have a coach to help me, you know, invest it the right way and whatever I need to do.

• 35:32Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 35:33Lewis Howes?

  You know, so.

• 35:34Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to ignoring it and just, I hope I don't lose it, but I don't want to speak about it.

• 35:38Jen Sincero?

  Right. That's a good point. That is a good point. Okay, I'll tell you another one.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  What's the, what's the other one?

• 35:44Jen Sincero?

  We're airing out my turn a lot. The, the other one is that I'm gonna make too much of it and I won't, and it is, it's kinda like the same as the first one, but I won't know what to do with it. Like, I'm scared of it coming in too fast and too much, because it's gonna bury me alive almost. Yeah, I know, I know. And so this is why, so I.

• 36:02Lewis Howes?

  Bury me alive?

• 36:03Jen Sincero?

  Kind of, yes.

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  Why would it bury, why would money bury you alive?

• 36:08Jen Sincero?

  Just tell her the other day.

• 36:09Lewis Howes?

  Well, this is the interesting thing, Jen. I think it's powerful that you're talking about this because there's different levels of insecurities or fears at the stages of money we make. And when I was broke on my sister's couch, I had a lot of fear and insecurity, uncertainty of the future. And then I remember one day I made sixty-two hundred dollars in an hour doing like a live webinar, selling a program. This is in two thousand nine.

• 36:31Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 36:31Lewis Howes?

  Before there was like courses and webinars, all this stuff.

• 36:33Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Lewis Howes?

  And I go, I'm the richest man in the world with sixty-two hundred dollars. And I had to split that with the person who promoted this, this training for me. But I still felt like thirty-one hundred dollars in an hour. I go, I could do this every day for the rest of my life, right? Because I was sleeping on my sister's couch.

• 36:48Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 36:50Lewis Howes?

  But there was still, I'd never made six figures. And so there was still a challenge, like, how do I do this? And how do I manage it and I understand it? And now taxes, what? All my money's gone from, I just made money. I have zero again in this fear of like this tax thing. And then you get to the next level and the next level and next level. And I just think there's different challenges or things we get to overcome at every level of money as well.

• 37:12Jen Sincero?

  Sure. Yes.

• 37:13Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 37:14Jen Sincero?

  New level, new devil, right?

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Is that right?

• 37:16Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Lewis Howes?

  So one of the fears is, will the money bury me alive?

• 37:20Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 37:21Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think that is?

• 37:22Jen Sincero?

  Like, gosh, why do I think that is? I think it's my insecurity about not knowing what to do with it. When I had, when I had very little of it, I could manage it, right? That was easy. And then as I started getting more and more, and so I do have pieces in place, but I've opened, I've hired a new financial team. So I can make, like, build the nest and it will come. Because I was like, if I don't take care of this, I will literally block it. I will energetically block it if I'm scared of it coming in and think it's going to bury me alive. Like, that is not a abundant mindset, you know?

• 37:54Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 37:54Jen Sincero?

  So, yeah, so I, I just created the nest, so now bring it on, universe.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. So now you can, you have, you have a foundation for it to come in.

• 38:03Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, yeah, so it's not scary anymore because I know where it's going to go. Yeah, but I realized that I was just like, wow, I am kind of scared of it coming in too much. I know. It's interesting, isn't it?

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  I think it's fascinating. I think we all get to experience at different levels how to break through. Otherwise, wouldn't it be interesting if it was just, I don't know, there's no obstacle.

• 38:25Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 38:26Lewis Howes?

  What do you think are the key things that abundant mindset people around money do differently than scarcity mindset people around money? If you had to say three or five kind of key things.

• 38:40Jen Sincero?

  They appreciate it, as you said, that that is a biggie. They appreciate it and they speak about it. As they love it, they're not weird about it. They're also generous with it because when you pinch yourself off from giving you, that is sort of a subconscious way of saying there's not enough to go around and it's not going to, I'm not in the flow. So when you don't give generously, it's because you're scared that it's not going to come in anymore. They take risks, you know, you gotta take risks. You are where you are because you've been doing what you've been doing. So if you want to change your life, you've got to do stuff you've never done.

• 39:18Jen Sincero?

  What else? Wealthy people, they learn about money, like you, you focus on money. Like that was such a big thing for me too. Like when I was broke, I, I never wanted to think about money, right? I was all about writing songs and, you know, doing much, you know, more noble things.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 39:33Jen Sincero?

  But then, but when you're broke, all you think about is money. Like I don't really think about money that much now that I have it like, but every single decision you make when you're broke is about.

• 39:41Lewis Howes?

  So I have enough to pay for this. Can I afford it? What happens if I don't?

• 39:44Jen Sincero?

  Right. You wake up in the first thing in the morning in a panic because you gotta pay your bills. So you're always thinking about money. So it is really just sort of getting in the flow with that and just, you know, being on good terms with it and, and focusing on it and, and, you know, how are you going to make it? Like being realistic about your income streams and, you know, and if you want to make it, you've got to coax it in, you know? Yeah.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious about this. Okay, you, you're a starving artist. You wanted to do noble things, which about art and making art and all these different things.

• 40:18Lewis Howes?

  What would have happened if someone would have said, Jen, you know what? I love that you're an artist. I love that you have this, you know, passion for art and you want to keep doing this and this is where you've been for 40 years and we don't want you to change. Here's 100 grand a year for the rest of your life. Don't worry about money, up to 100 grand. What would that have done to you if someone would have given you 100 grand a year? And you would have just been like, okay, I'm gonna write and do whatever I want and how do you think you would have been mentally, emotionally, spiritually versus you having to risk emotionally, mentally, you getting to heal, let go, overcome,

• 40:57Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 40:58Lewis Howes?

  challenge yourself into asking for money and to becoming something greater than that limiting belief. What do you think, what do you think you'd be now?

• 41:07Jen Sincero?

  Probably would have spent it on beer, honestly, back in those days. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I wasn't, you, you're absolutely right. It's a, it's a, it's a frequency. You know, it's like, it's like, uh,

• 41:19Jen Sincero?

  I don't know. I mean, I always, I always had,

• 41:24Jen Sincero?

  I guess, I'm gonna say gall, that's not the right word, but I did, I did do a lot of stuff that was pretty edgy and I, I pushed the envelope a lot. So I may have gotten there, but I don't think it would have been as exciting as it was to do it myself. You know, there really is, you do grow and they, they say, you know, starting your own business is the best personal development course you can possibly take because all your stuff comes up, right?

• 41:49Lewis Howes?

  All of it.

• 41:50Jen Sincero?

  So

• 41:50Lewis Howes?

  Leadership training, it's leadership training, it's inner child training, everything.

• 41:53Jen Sincero?

  Everything, totally. Totally. So, so it wouldn't have been as satisfying, I don't think. I think I still would have done it though, because that is kind of my personality. When I'm ready to change, I'm ready to change and I do it.

• 42:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Jen Sincero?

  So, but I think it wouldn't have been as glorious and I'm definitely, I probably wouldn't have written you a rap. Which would totally change my entire life, so.

• 42:13Lewis Howes?

  It changed yours, but it also changed other people's lives.

• 42:15Jen Sincero?

  Yes.

• 42:15Lewis Howes?

  So it's who you become, the lessons you learn, the wisdom you have,

• 42:19Jen Sincero?

  Yes.

• 42:19Lewis Howes?

  to then be able to be of service and teach

• 42:21Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  from your own experience.

• 42:23Jen Sincero?

  Exactly. Yeah, the book about me getting 100 grand a year just for being, would not be that interesting to people.

• 42:28Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. That's interesting.

• 42:30Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 42:31Lewis Howes?

  What is the question you get asked by your readers the most? That You wish they truly could hear and believe the answer to.

• 42:41Jen Sincero?

  Oh, so many. Well, the one that I said about what do you do when the people closest to you don't support you? Another one is how do you keep the motivation? Like, you know, we go to these seminars, we read books, we listen to the podcasts and we're all raring to go and then.

• 42:56Lewis Howes?

  A month later, you go back in your old.

• 42:57Jen Sincero?

  Exactly, yeah, so.

• 42:59Lewis Howes?

  So how do you stay motivated?

• 43:00Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 43:01Lewis Howes?

  On your vision and on your growth journey?

• 43:04Jen Sincero?

  Well, I call it going to the spiritual gym. And you've got to have a spiritual gym practice because you do not get to work out physically and then stop going to the gym. Once you're in shape. So just because you got in shape at the seminar or listen to the podcast or whatever, you don't get to stop doing stuff. So. And it doesn't, and you know, I'm working so hard to start my business. I don't want to do anything. So it's like, it can be 20 minutes. You know, you working out for 20 minutes a day can do a lot of great things. So it's like. Spiritual gym workout, meditate for 15, read a self-help book for five. Like, what music are you listening to? Who are you hanging out with? What makes you feel like you could flip over a car? Like, what are those things?

• 43:45Jen Sincero?

  And do them every single solitary day for 20 minutes. It's not that big a whoop-de-doo. You know, when you think about that it's going to change your entire life. You know, so and take it as seriously as anything else because that work will make everything else that you're taking seriously and trying to achieve so much easier. And. You know, I'm giving a lot of talks right now and the, and the thing that I'm just so excited and I'm so excited to be speaking right now too, because it reminds me, it's my spiritual gym, right? Like, we all need it. So. But the thing about because we are spiritual creatures having a physical experience, right? And if you, and like, instead of just giving it lip service and talking, yeah, yeah, I know that.

• 44:25Jen Sincero?

  But think about it, we are the universal intelligence that created everything that is. We are our thoughts, our universal intelligence, the stuff that created everything that is. Why are we not more stuck up? Why are we not feeling so powerful all of the time? If we're really gonna believe it, if we're really gonna go steroids on woo woo and go there and really like, if you thought about that all day long, about your thoughts being, you know, when you're in alignment, not the garbage thoughts that you think, but when you get quiet and you tap into your inner yippee skippy, as I like to call it, and you're there and you're in the flow. It's like, it's so exciting, right?

• 45:09Jen Sincero?

  Instead of spinning out on how pissed off you are at somebody, you're freaking out about this.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  Judging people.

• 45:14Jen Sincero?

  Judging people, what we do all the time, right? If you can just catch yourself, and that's why awareness is the key to transformation, right? So you just catch yourself when you're in the spins. And this is why meditation is so important, because it gets you into the habit of catching yourself, right? Because you're trying to stay clear. So it's not just about catching yourself in meditation and moving the thoughts away. Meditation is practice. We're doing it all day long. So catching yourself and be like, ah, I'm gonna tap back into universal intelligence, the stuff that created all that is. So, and then just going from there.

• 45:44Lewis Howes?

  If you could reflect on You Are Bad, which when I read it, it gave me like this jolt of energy, because I was like, this is exactly what I want to talk about consistently. You know, I had, I had the School of Greatness, I think, had come out for maybe, I don't know. I think I read your book maybe a year after I started. I saw it on the shelves, but I ended up getting it maybe a year after I started the show. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm so glad you're talking about this, because it's everything that I believed in and everything I wanted to continue to express in my own way. If you could reflect on one idea from that book, and you could only share one idea.

• 46:23Jen Sincero?

  You're so mean, man. All right.

• 46:25Lewis Howes?

  That you believe is the thesis of the book, that you want people to remember, and remember a concept, a phrase, an idea from it. What would that be for you?

• 46:38Jen Sincero?

  Well, kind of what I just said, but since I just said it, I'm gonna use my point for another, here's my one thing, my one thing I get to say. I really believe that if we all did something that scared us every single solitary day, our lives would change so quickly, we wouldn't know what hit us, right?

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  Let's go Jen.

• 46:58Jen Sincero?

  And scary in that like tear excitement way, like terror excitement. Like you don't have to like run into traffic, you know, but something that's like in the direction of where you want to go that scares you because fear is the sign. It's the compass that you're getting outside of the familiarity zone.

• 47:12Lewis Howes?

  So true.

• 47:13Jen Sincero?

  Right? So if you just take those steps outside and just do the scary thing every day, every day. Wow. Cause that's, that's really when I was making all of my huge financial transformations, it was always, you know, my coach would always tell me something I'd like, totally didn't want to do it, but I knew if I did it, it would transform my life and it was exciting, you know, it was like leaping into the void, just like

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 47:39Jen Sincero?

  And that's the sign, yeah.

• 47:40Lewis Howes?

  I have this concept in, in my latest book, The Greatest Mindset, called Creating Your Fear List. If you want to become fearless, you've got to create a fear list.

• 47:48Jen Sincero?

  That's brilliant.

• 47:48Lewis Howes?

  And really go all in on this. This is something I did as a teenager in my twenties, in my thirties, at different seasons of life. I was like, what is the thing that makes me feel so insecure right now? I had a lot of false confidence.

• 48:00Jen Sincero?

  Love that.

• 48:00Lewis Howes?

  You know, I was like this jockey ego, like I'm big and tough and I'm an athlete and I can dominate on the sports field, but then I couldn't talk to girls without being, you know, sweating and being terrified.

• 48:10Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 48:10Lewis Howes?

  I couldn't dance or sing in public without being like humiliated or whatever it was. I, I couldn't speak in public also. So all these things I wrote on my fear list in my twenties, after I broke my wrist and was on my sister's couch, I was like, I'm already humiliated. I have no money. I'm living in my sister's place for a year and a half. You know, my dad just went through this thing that I don't have him really in my life anymore. My, my passion, my dreams are gone. So I have, what do I do now? Let me just conquer all my fears. And it was the greatest gift I gave myself because it gave me so much belief and confidence in me. Every time I would just get a little bit better in my fears. It's not like I had to like overcome it all in a day.

• 48:52Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 48:53Lewis Howes?

  But I just saw a little bit of progress every day in practicing my fears. Public speaking, a little bit every week. I was like a little less nervous, a little more confident, a little more skill every week over a year's time. Where I was like, man, I'm a powerful human being. I can do anything now. Let me figure out the next fear and just kept repeating it. And I'm still in that now, like I'm trying to learn Spanish and I still get insecure like speaking Spanish. I'm still like a beginner, but it's like I gotta keep practicing and a little bit of growth every day, a little bit better, you know? I don't think we fluent overnight, but what am I overcoming? Just little by little, that really gives me a lot more confidence in self and belief. And I think my thesis is self doubt is the killer of dreams.

• 49:35Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 49:35Lewis Howes?

  When we doubt self, it's really hard to do anything.

• 49:39Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  Courageously because we're constantly in doubt mode.

• 49:41Jen Sincero?

  Right.

• 49:41Lewis Howes?

  That's why I loved your book about stop doubting yourself and start stepping into your greatness.

• 49:46Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 49:46Lewis Howes?

  And, um, and a lot of people are stuck in doubt. What do you think beyond facing fears? We can do to believe in ourselves more and overcome the self doubt that we have better?

• 50:01Jen Sincero?

  I think not waiting until you're ready, you know? And this is kind of saying the same thing, like facing the fear, but like making sure everything's perfect. Making sure you've got all the money tucked away, making sure you're the right weight, you know? Whatever like just doing it now, you know? Just do it now and take action now is a really big one, I think. And, um, and also, you know, paying attention again to how you speak about yourself and what you think about yourself and what you, how you treat yourself. And, you know, I wrote a whole section in Bad Habits about boundaries, you know? Boundaries are huge when it comes to self care and self doubt.

• 50:43Jen Sincero?

  And we make lousy boundaries and put everybody in front of us because we want to be liked. And, you know, and then we're passive aggressive and resentful, which is super fun. You know, so it's like, but you know, really getting clear on who you are and what you love and making that a priority.

• 51:01Lewis Howes?

  When did you stop abandoning yourself?

• 51:04Jen Sincero?

  You know, I still do it sometimes, of course.

• 51:06Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:07Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:08Lewis Howes?

  In what ways do you?

• 51:09Jen Sincero?

  Oh, God.

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  Is it in relationships? Is it in self-care? Is it in the way you talk to people?

• 51:14Jen Sincero?

  Not speaking, you know, sort of not standing my ground in the moment if somebody says something really crappy. You know? And it doesn't have to be, I'm not, I also don't want to be the personality police. Like if someone's gonna say something. But more just not saying anything. Like, instead of like rushing it over because it's awkward, just letting it sit there like the big turd it is. And let it, everybody like have a good look at it instead of helping them recover. Or, you know, just like in the, in the moment is always interesting to me. So slowing, so my mantra for the past five years has been like, slow down and shut up. Like just slow down and shut up. Like I'm, you know, just listen and just choose your words wisely.

• 51:57Lewis Howes?

  You don't have to react to everything.

• 51:58Jen Sincero?

  Exactly. So, yeah, for sure.

• 52:01Lewis Howes?

  Personality police is a reason.

• 52:02Jen Sincero?

  Yeah. It's not your job to teach everybody how to behave. Let them say what they want. Let them, you know, and this is all part of my whole like not giving a crap what people think of me. It's just like, think what you like. Think what you like. It's not my.

• 52:13Lewis Howes?

  Right. It's almost, it's almost, you know, in a way, and I've done this many times. It's not like I'm saying I'm above or anything. But when we judge another person because they didn't do it the way we liked it.

• 52:24Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 52:24Lewis Howes?

  Or they think they should do it.

• 52:25Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 52:25Lewis Howes?

  Or it's appropriate in the setting, we are being judgmental.

• 52:29Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Lewis Howes?

  We are being judgmental. We're not accepting. I'm not saying that's the right or wrong thing to do, but it's just something to notice.

• 52:35Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Lewis Howes?

  There's a judgment that's happening.

• 52:37Jen Sincero?

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:38Lewis Howes?

  And when there's a judgment, there's usually a right and wrong.

• 52:41Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Lewis Howes?

  And so it's just, is that serving us in the flow of our peace, our happiness, our abundance? And being in harmony with the world? And maybe there is a time where we need to step up and create a boundary and say something and say, get away from me. Or whatever it is, but.

• 52:55Jen Sincero?

  But it's really more about, it's the inside job thing where it's none of your business. You know, that's their journey. So that's really, you know, and I don't think we ever get there. I don't think, I think it is human to judge.

• 53:07Lewis Howes?

  To judge.

• 53:08Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, and it's fun. Come on, let's be honest.

• 53:10Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 53:10Jen Sincero?

  But, um, but I do think that it's a very worthwhile way to spend your time. Like working that muscle and just getting, because it's also more fun, like. If you don't, if you just leave it to them and let them do it, it's, it's, you're not spinning out on it anymore. You're not focusing on it, which pulls more of it into your radar anyway. Like, if you can just focus on what feels fun and good and true and just like let them have it back.

• 53:34Lewis Howes?

  Right. How important is healing our past and our thoughts tied to having peace around making money?

• 53:44Jen Sincero?

  Super important because if you're, because if you go out and make a ton and you're still weird about it, right? You're first of all, not going to enjoy it and you'll probably lose it. Or you'll be, you know, put it in a hole in the backyard and never spend it.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  Corn it, yeah.

• 54:01Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is.

• 54:04Lewis Howes?

  What is the thing that people should focus on healing the most in order to set themselves financially free?

• 54:10Jen Sincero?

  I think it's different for everybody. I think we all are fed different lies and fears and things. So I think it's, but figuring out what your bag of worms is, you know? You've got to get clear about that. And I'll tell you, the way that I discovered the big kahuna for me, which was my dad, like stabbing my dad in the heart, like I was talking about earlier, was spending money. So the way that, so I did, I did the letter to money. I was doing all, I was really serious about figuring out my stuff with money. And I was at a coaching seminar and this coach was speaking from the stage. And he said that he charged $85,000 a year to work with him. And I, he was great and I really loved him and I totally wanted to work with him.

• 54:52Jen Sincero?

  And when I heard $85,000, because I had been doing all this work on my wealth consciousness, instead of being like, he's high, like what a, you know, but about a million.

• 55:02Lewis Howes?

  He's crazy. Yeah, yeah.

• 55:03Jen Sincero?

  Very rational excuses not to do it. Instead of going there, I went to, okay, how am I going to get 85 grand? Like, that's where my mind went first. And that's only because I'd been going to the financial spiritual gym for so long, that that's where my mindset was. So I went, how am I going to get $85,000? And I had a vision of my father and a lot of stuff comes to me visually. A vision of my dad, he always wore this yellow v-neck sweater and he had his hands in his pockets and he was looking down at the ground really sad. And I was like, oh my God, that's it. It's, it's going to kill him if I get rich because he won't be able to show me he loves me anymore.

• 55:37Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 55:38Jen Sincero?

  It was so profound and that really was a straw that broke the camel's back for me.

• 55:42Lewis Howes?

  So what did you do after that then?

• 55:44Jen Sincero?

  Well, it was interesting. I ended up not working with that coach. But I ended up-

• 55:48Lewis Howes?

  It got you thinking about, yeah.

• 55:49Jen Sincero?

  But I ended up hiring a different coach.

• 55:51Lewis Howes?

  A lot of money.

• 55:52Jen Sincero?

  A couple of weeks later for the same amount.

• 55:53Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 55:53Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Lewis Howes?

  And so how did you heal that belief around like, I'm gonna kill my dad if I make a lot of money?

• 56:01Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 56:01Lewis Howes?

  Did you have conversations with him? Did you do something internally?

• 56:04Jen Sincero?

  It wasn't about him at all. It was about me and my perception. So what I started doing was visualizing him being so proud of me and supporting me and being happy and like turning it around, just being like, he's gonna be so relieved that I can take care of myself. Cause my dad was, had me when he was older. So it's like, he'll feel so rested and and the other thing too that was so funny, like my relationship with him was pretty, was pretty rough. And so whenever, um, when I started getting, when I started making money and I would tell him about it, he didn't really listen very well. And I'd be like, Dad, you know, I just got paid this much. He's like, that's nice. And he has an Italian accent that I always try to imitate that I'm terrible at.

• 56:44Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 56:46Jen Sincero?

  At the end of the call, he'd be like, you know, do you need some help financially? And I'd be like, Dad, I just told you that. And so I get, you know, all after the yellow sweater, hands in pockets moment, I was like, it's the only way he knows how to show love. So I could be like, Dad, I just made $10 million. And at the end of the call, he'd be like-

• 57:01Lewis Howes?

  You need 20 bucks?

• 57:02Jen Sincero?

  Do you need 20 bucks? I'd be like, you know, that'd be great. Thank you so much. And I could see how much it meant to him. And I get 20 bucks and everything's good. So it was a really beautiful, and it really healed my relationship with him a lot.

• 57:14Lewis Howes?

  Did he say, I love you? Did he speak?

• 57:16Jen Sincero?

  Oh, he always said, I love you. Like, he was, he was good that way, but he was a real, um, he just, he was a super introvert and he just was really uncomfortable with emotions. Yes. And he's Italian. I thought, they're all screaming and yelling. And I was like, are you sure you're Italian?

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. But that was his way of showing affection and that he loved you by this act.

• 57:34Jen Sincero?

  And he also was raised to think men are providers. And that's how you show, yeah.

• 57:38Lewis Howes?

  Even if you make money, I'm still gonna provide and support you.

• 57:40Jen Sincero?

  Yes.

• 57:41Lewis Howes?

  What do you think would have happened if you would have stopped allowing him to give you, you know, 10, 20, 50 bucks?

• 57:48Jen Sincero?

  It would have really hurt his feelings.

• 57:50Lewis Howes?

  Because he wanted to give it to you. What would have?

• 57:52Jen Sincero?

  It would have really hurt his feelings. Like, it really would have made him feel cut off from me.

• 57:59Lewis Howes?

  So this is interesting because you don't need someone to pay for you for things, right? Like you can pay for your own life. You can pay for food and dinner and trips and your home. Like you don't need someone to pay for you. Right. The thing that I've learned in the last couple of years of being with my girlfriend Martha is that it's, you know, I don't, she can take care of her own stuff and she takes care of certain stuff and there are certain things that I take care of for us. Uh huh. And I take care of myself financially in certain ways, but I've gotten to the point where I don't feel like I need to pay for everything to feel like she, like I'm enough. Right.

• 58:40Lewis Howes?

  Like I'm, I'm good enough or that I'm deserving or worthy or this is my value in being able to give everything financially. Now, again, and I don't want to rob her of being able to pay for the things that she's made her money. I want her to be able to pay for certain things for herself.

• 58:57Lewis Howes?

  But it does mean I get to show up in a different way, maybe not financially, but spiritually with my presence, with my generosity of my words and my, my time, like my thoughtfulness, and provide value in other ways not tied to money. And sometimes that can be uncomfortable if we haven't trained ourselves how to provide value outside of money in a relationship. Uh huh. And I've had to learn that and it's been a powerful breakthrough in a lot of ways. Cool. It hasn't been in the last two years. It's been like a decade of me doing this, but it allows me not to feel like, oh, she's paying for her own food right now. I'm worthless.

• 59:42Lewis Howes?

  Right. You know? Yeah. Then I'm, I'm, I'm nothing to her. I mean, you know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's been, it's been, it's been powerful to empower her to be able to make decisions financially. Yeah. Which she was doing before me. She doesn't need me to do that. Right. She was already doing that. Yeah. But to me, now I feel like I have to pay for everything. Yeah. And she just has to like, let me provide. Yeah, I know. It's interesting. It's a, it's more of a mutual providing of value in the relationship intimately. Peacefully, like the highest currency for me is peace.

• 1:00:14Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:14Lewis Howes?

  I would take peace over money all day long. And she brings peace to the relationship. Therefore, I don't need her to ever spend money on anything. Just be peaceful and I'm, you've got a happy head.

• 1:00:29Lewis Howes?

  But um, and I think that's just something to look at, like what, how can you bring value into a relationship? Not related to money.

• 1:00:35Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, well, listen, Louis, I'm cutting you a check after I leave. Like you said that right after, I was like, of course it's my daddy's stuff. I mean, come on. Yeah. Yeah, no, that is something to look at for sure.

• 1:00:47Lewis Howes?

  What was the best lesson your dad's taught you?

• 1:00:50Jen Sincero?

  You know, he uh,

• 1:00:54Jen Sincero?

  oh, I don't know. This is such a great lesson, but it's a really funny line, so I have to say it. But I remember when, I think he taught me a lot about perspective because he grew up in Italy, in Naples, and um, he didn't come over here till he was in his twenties. And so I, and he just always thought American children were so spoiled. He was like, oh my God, you whiny little, like, I can't believe, so I remember like one time, like, in college, I was like, Dad, will you help pay for therapy? I'd really like to talk to a therapist. He's like, you don't need therapy. You know what you need? A war fought on your soil.

• 1:01:27Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:01:28Jen Sincero?

  Okay, right. Good perspective. But just sort of his um, I mean, I think also that you can love in different ways. Like, I feel like that's sort of what he has really taught me, you know, with the money stuff, like that was just his, you love however you can. And that he really, I mean, the guy could not look at me without crying, like he just,

• 1:01:47Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:01:47Jen Sincero?

  But he couldn't express it. So it was like, it was really like he couldn't, and I was so angry at him for so long for not.

• 1:01:54Lewis Howes?

  Telling you certain things?

• 1:01:54Jen Sincero?

  Yes, and not listening to me the right way and all stuff. And I'm just so, he lived into his nineties and I'm so glad he did because I feel so good with where our relationship was by the time he passed. Because I put down the bag, you know, I was like, let it go, Jen, like he is doing.

• 1:02:08Lewis Howes?

  Doing his best.

• 1:02:09Jen Sincero?

  The best that he can, and he loves me, and how lucky am I that I have a dad who loves me that much? So it was really, really great. So I just feel like he really taught me a lot about, it doesn't have to be the way you expect it to be. It can be different. Somebody can love you differently than you would love them. And that you expect it. And to be grateful as hell that they do.

• 1:02:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that.

• 1:02:30Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:32Lewis Howes?

  I want to ask you about coaching because I've heard coaching a few times. As an athlete, I know the value of coaching from sports into business. I have a relationship coach, I have a, you know, health coach, nutrition coach. I have coaching in every area because coaching worked for me as an athlete to get to my goals.

• 1:02:48Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Lewis Howes?

  And accomplish the dreams that I had in sports. So when I transitioned from sports into life, the first thing I did is look for mentors and coaches to guide me on my path. I don't think I'd be where I am today without having great coaches and guides. Do you think we should all find a money coach? Or have some type of coaching within money, whether that's a financial advisor? Or maybe it's reading your book around money or listening to content about money? Or should we have guides and coaches?

• 1:03:18Jen Sincero?

  Yes, I mean, especially if you're not making it like.

• 1:03:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:03:22Jen Sincero?

  You need money and you, you need it now, you know? So get a coach. Like I always talk about Olympic athletes have coaches. Why do you think you and your scraggly little trying to scrape it together? Why do you think you don't need one? You know, that's what got me doing it. I was just like, who am I kidding? I've been trying for 40 years on my own and I couldn't do it.

• 1:03:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:03:41Jen Sincero?

  Yeah, no, I think coaching, I think coaching because also we all know what it's like. Like when you're saying, you know, how would I coach somebody who's going through what I'm going through? It's super easy, right? When it's not me. So that's what a coach also does is like they see, they're not in your forest with all your trees. Like they're looking at it without all your bull around it, you know? So they can see it so much more easily. And so a good coach can save you so much time and money in the long run.

• 1:04:05Lewis Howes?

  Do you have a coach right now?

• 1:04:06Jen Sincero?

  I don't have a coach right now. Yeah, but I'm still in that sort of incubation. Maybe I need a coach to help me figure out what I want to do next. Yeah, no, but I'm not scared of hiring them. I mean, I love.

• 1:04:15Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. But you're in a season of discovering and reflecting on what you want next.

• 1:04:20Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:20Lewis Howes?

  You've done so much in the last decade and.

• 1:04:22Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:23Lewis Howes?

  And now you're figuring out, okay, where am I at?

• 1:04:25Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Lewis Howes?

  What I want to contribute or how do I want to show up?

• 1:04:28Jen Sincero?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:04:30Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Lewis Howes?

  Come to you.

• 1:04:31Jen Sincero?

  It's fun and I'm still, and you know, I'm still doing stuff and I really believe in not sitting around and trying to figure it out. Because when you're about to do something new, you don't know what it is. You've never done it, so you gotta go out and do stuff.

• 1:04:42Lewis Howes?

  Try things.

• 1:04:43Jen Sincero?

  Try things. So I'm out there trying things for sure and I'm, you know, and I'm still doing all the bad stuff. You know, we've got a lot of really cool things happening in that arena. So, um, so that's all super duper fun.

• 1:04:53Lewis Howes?

  That's great. That's great.

• 1:04:54Jen Sincero?

  But just, you know.

• 1:04:55Lewis Howes?

  Living the dream, Jen. I got a couple of final questions for you.

• 1:04:57Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 1:04:59Lewis Howes?

  What is the thing you're most proud of that most people? Want to know about you?

• 1:05:05Jen Sincero?

  Um, I would say that I'm a really good friend. I have friends, I have lifelong friends from forever and a lot of them and we're just like a family.

• 1:05:15Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:05:16Jen Sincero?

  I have, I feel like I'm an art collector and I have all these masterpieces of humanity that I just, I pick good ones.

• 1:05:23Lewis Howes?

  That's a great.

• 1:05:23Jen Sincero?

  And I keep them around because they're really important to me.

• 1:05:27Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:05:28Jen Sincero?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:28Lewis Howes?

  I like that explanation of it.

• 1:05:31Lewis Howes?

  You're an art curator of humanity.

• 1:05:33Jen Sincero?

  I am.

• 1:05:34Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 1:05:34Jen Sincero?

  I'm telling you, I want to have it unveiling, which will just be called a party to some people, but.

• 1:05:39Lewis Howes?

  I like that a lot.

• 1:05:42Lewis Howes?

  I asked you this question on our previous interview, that was a virtual interview, but I'm curious your thought, your response to it now.

• 1:05:49Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 1:05:49Lewis Howes?

  So we'll have to reflect afterwards on what those answers were before to where they are now.

• 1:05:54Jen Sincero?

  Pressure's on.

• 1:05:55Lewis Howes?

  This question is called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario.

• 1:05:59Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 1:06:00Lewis Howes?

  You get to live as long as you want to live on this earth, but then one day you turn off the lights in this physical world.

• 1:06:06Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 1:06:07Lewis Howes?

  And you get to create and achieve and accomplish all the things you want to do.

• 1:06:10Jen Sincero?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:11Lewis Howes?

  Uh, but for whatever reason, all of your written, audio and video material has to go with you.

• 1:06:16Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 1:06:17Lewis Howes?

  From all your books and this interview and everything is gone. Hypothetical scenario.

• 1:06:21Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 1:06:22Lewis Howes?

  But you get to leave behind three truths, three lessons you would share with the world and this is all we have.

• 1:06:27Jen Sincero?

  Okay.

• 1:06:28Lewis Howes?

  Left of your, your words. What would be those three truths for you?

• 1:06:33Jen Sincero?

  Um, well, let's see. Three truths would be the most important thing to develop if you want to really live an awesome life is your mindset. Really develop your mindset and pay attention to it. Do the scary thing. Definitely do the scary thing every single day. And.

• 1:06:58Jen Sincero?

  Have as much fun as you can. Like, what else are we here for?

• 1:07:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's beautiful. You have, again, 10 year anniversary of You Are a Bad. You've got other amazing books as well. You're a Bad at Making Money. You're a Bad Every Day, Bad Habits. So many amazing books. Number one New York Times bestseller. You've got an amazing course, I believe, as well. Coaching course.

• 1:07:24Jen Sincero?

  Group coaching course. It's so fun.

• 1:07:26Lewis Howes?

  At JenSincero.com, S-I-N-C-E-R-O.com, where you can get that information. What do they get in this course and this coaching?

• 1:07:34Jen Sincero?

  Well, I'm doing it live now, which I haven't done in eight years, and it's so much fun. I missed coaching. I really missed talking to other people. And it's, I've been selling it as a DIY course for a while, but now I'm back in it. So basically, you get, it's eight weeks long. You get, and what I love about this course is I wrote it right after I finished writing You Are a Bad. So I put in a lot of, like, time management and sort of like, you know, brass taxi kind of thing. And every other week is a spiritual element. So you start applying the spiritual to the tactile. So, because I really feel like, you know, we talk about all this stuff, but unless you're actually doing it while you're taking action, who cares? So, people, it's been so much fun. So basically, you get a video at the beginning of the week, you get a PDF with the video,

• 1:08:19Jen Sincero?

  and then every other week, you get a 90-minute coaching, group coaching call with me.

• 1:08:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 1:08:25Jen Sincero?

  That's recorded, so if you can't be there, it's fine. And then, or a guided meditation, or a guided motivational.

• 1:08:31Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:08:32Jen Sincero?

  Something or other. Yeah, it's really fun. And a Facebook group where you can hang out with the other people in Nagoras.

• 1:08:37Lewis Howes?

  Everyone can use more coaching from you. The synergy, I love it. You're also on social media everywhere, Jen Sincero, everywhere on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. What's the main platform you hang out the most?

• 1:08:49Jen Sincero?

  I like Instagram the best. Yeah.

• 1:08:51Lewis Howes?

  Make sure to follow you there. So if you enjoyed this, make sure to follow. Share a story, leave a message about your biggest takeaway from this episode on social media and also in the comments below over on YouTube.

• 1:09:04Lewis Howes?

  I want to acknowledge you, Jen, for your journey. You being an example of what's possible for people. Someone, you know, your whole life until you were 40, really being stuck in a mindset and having the courage to break through, through taking action on your fears consistently, through investing in yourself, through investing in coaching, through... Being willing to risk feeling vulnerable, feeling overwhelmed, feeling embarrassed, feeling like a failure at times and doing it consistently over the last, I guess, 15 plus years now. So I really, really acknowledge you for you being a channel to share this work with the world and impacting so many people along the way. It's been a beautiful journey to watch. I'm a fan of you, your work, your books. It resonates so much with

• 1:09:49Lewis Howes?

  me. So I acknowledge you for the gift that you are to humanity as well. It's beautiful.

• 1:09:54Jen Sincero?

  Thank you so much. It's so nice to meet you in person. You're like that easiest, but you're totally kindred. You are like, you're just there all day. Yeah.

• 1:10:04Lewis Howes?

  My final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:10:07Jen Sincero?

  Allowing yourself to be, do, and have everything that lights up your little heart.

• 1:10:13Lewis Howes?

  I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend, leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter and get it delivered

• 1:10:58Lewis Howes?

  right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.