Pod Insights The School of Greatness Master Your Health Through Fasting & Food w/Dr. Alan Goldhamer (PART 2) EP 1125 About this episode “Fasting is an effective and efficient way of reversing and normalizing blood pressure.”Today’s guest is Dr. Alan Goldhamer who is one of the world’s leading experts on medically supervised, water-only fasting. In 1984 he founded and became Director of TrueNorth Health Center in Santa Rosa, California; since then, he has supervised the fasting and care of more than 20,000 patients. It is the largest facility in the world specializing in medically supervised, water-only fasting and one of the premier training facilities for doctors to gain certification in the supervision of therapeutic fasting. The conversation was so powerful that we had to split it up into 2 episodes. If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet you can find it at www.lewishowes.com/1024In this second episode Lewis and Alan discuss the foods you should never eat again, why you should make younger friends before you get into old-age, the 5 foods Dr. Goldhamer would eat for the rest of his life if he had to choose, how too much medication can be detrimental to your health, and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1125Check out his website: www.truenorthhealthfoundation.org/Check out his book: The Pleasure TrapThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Lewis Howes? This is episode number 1,125 with Dr. Alan Goldhamer, part two. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
0:29 Lewis Howes? Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, "The first wealth is health." And Nathaniel Brandon said, "Self-discipline is the ability to organize your behavior over time in the service of specific goals." Today's guest is Dr. Alan Goldhammer, who is one of the world's leading experts on medically supervised water-only fasting. And in 1984, he founded and became Director of True North Health Center in Santa Rosa, California. And since then, he has supervised the fasting and care of more than 20,000 patients. And it's the largest facility in the world specializing in medically supervised water-only fasting, and one of the premier training facilities for doctors to gain certification in supervision of therapeutic fasting.
1:12 Lewis Howes? Dr. Goldhammer is also the author of The Health Promoting Cookbook and co-author of The Pleasure Trap, Mastering the Hidden Forces That Undermines Health and Happiness. And our conversation was so powerful in part one that we had to split it up in two episodes. So if you haven't listened to episode one yet of this, you can find it at lewishouse.com/1024, or just click the previous episode after this one on your podcast app. And in this second episode, we discuss the foods you should never eat ever again, why you should make younger friends before you get into old age, the five foods that Dr. Goldhammer would eat for the rest of his life if he had to choose them, how too much medication can be detrimental to your health, and so much more.
1:56 Lewis Howes? Again, if you're enjoying this at any moment, make sure to share this with a friend that you think would be inspired and keep spreading the message of greatness to more people, to your friends on social media as well. And if this is your first time here, click the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or Spotify right now so you can stay up to date on the latest and greatest on the School of Greatness podcast. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dr. Alan Goldhamer.
2:21 Lewis Howes? After someone comes off a fast, what are the five foods you would recommend they never eat again?
2:28 Alan Goldhamer? Well, number one on my list would be dairy products. I think of all the animal products, dairy products. I particularly cheese. Probably number one is cheese. It's like coagulated cow pus. You know, they allow 750,000 pus cells per C and C. You might as well find a festering wound, stick a straw in it and suck.
2:45 Lewis Howes? Oh, man.
2:46 Alan Goldhamer? It's also full of salt, because if you take the salt out of cheese.
2:49 Lewis Howes? That's why it tastes so good, though.
2:50 Alan Goldhamer? Without the salt, you wouldn't think so. So now you've got the benefit of an animal food, which is biological concentration of all the toxins. They give the cows hormones in order to make them make more milk, make more productive, which passes on. Isn't it interesting you have little girls now that are menstruating at nine and 10 years old as they reach sexual maturity much earlier? The same hormones that make the cows make more milk also affect humans. And particularly, you see it.
3:15 Lewis Howes? Well, I'm like a foot taller than everyone in my family, but I used to only drink milk all day long. Milk, whole milk.
3:23 Alan Goldhamer? Milk proteins also highly antigenic when it comes to type 1 diabetes in children. It's known that in genetically vulnerable kids, exposure to those proteins can stimulate the immune system to attack the islets of Langerhain and the pancreas and may be part of the mechanism in juvenile onset diabetes. We know that people that have eczema and psoriasis and autoimmune diseases find that those proteins can aggravate their condition. We know that cheese, when you think about, talk about saturated fat, calories and salt all in one, you know, package, may not be the ideal.
3:52 Lewis Howes? Cheese is the worst food, you're saying?
3:54 Alan Goldhamer? I wrote an article that says, the title of it's "Nobody Needs Milk", and you can find that on our website. It has about 6.5 million downloads. So I don't think we're getting any funding from the American Dairy Council. Nobody needs milk. I would argue milk's probably number one as far as the foods that cause the most problem. And what you see, the biggest change is the quickest just by stopping them. Animal foods in general have biological concentration uses, where animals accumulate materials day after day after week after month, so that when you eat it, you get its entire lifetime accumulation of matures. If you look at just toxins, the PCB doxins, pesticides, heavy metals, et cetera. If you look at a calorie of animal food compared to a calorie of plant foods, you could have 2 to 1,000 times the concentration in animal foods compared to plant foods, just because of biological concentration.
4:39 Lewis Howes? Right.
4:39 Alan Goldhamer? So animal foods in general, dairy products in particular. Then I think number three on my list.
4:44 Lewis Howes? So cheese, then milk? Is that what you're saying? Or is it cheese and milk in one? Or is it just dairy as number one?
4:50 Alan Goldhamer? Is it worth to drown or burn to death? What should we? So, yeah, I would say cheese, just because it's hyper-concentrated too. It's a highly processed.
4:57 Lewis Howes? And the cheese is, is milk?
4:58 Alan Goldhamer? Any of these milk products.
4:59 Lewis Howes? Okay.
5:00 Alan Goldhamer? Dairy products.
5:01 Lewis Howes? And then three was?
5:02 Alan Goldhamer? Animal products in general, so meat, fish, fowl, eggs, all of it.
5:06 Lewis Howes? Really?
5:07 Alan Goldhamer? Well, any animal food has biological concentration as a concern. So, we're advocating a whole-plant food diet. So, fruits and vegetables, grains, legumes, nuts and seeds. I would argue that next would be refined carbohydrates. So, your sugars, your concentrated sweeteners, refined flour products. Because these are so helpful at getting people fat and helping them develop the disease of dietary excess.
5:36 Lewis Howes? Got refined carbs?
5:38 Alan Goldhamer? Then would be oil, including olive oil.
5:40 Lewis Howes? Really?
5:41 Alan Goldhamer? Yeah, all fractionated, highly-processed fats in the form of oil.
5:44 Lewis Howes? I hear the cases of olive oil are helping with like longevity and all these other things.
5:48 Alan Goldhamer? Well, if, what you're seeing is some people arguing that oil, if it displaces something even more toxic, maybe higher up in our list, maybe less detrimental. I don't think that makes it healthy, in my opinion.
5:58 Lewis Howes? Got it.
5:58 Alan Goldhamer? And then the last thing would be added.
6:00 Lewis Howes? So, all oils?
6:01 Alan Goldhamer? All oils, not all fats. Of course, you're getting fat from whole foods. So, you're eating your nuts, your seeds, your avocado, your whole foods.
6:08 Lewis Howes? Whole foods.
6:08 Alan Goldhamer? Which contain all the essential fats you need.
6:10 Lewis Howes? Got it.
6:11 Alan Goldhamer? But not the, but not the fractionated by-products of whole foods.
6:14 Lewis Howes? Coconut oils, olive oils, avocado, avocado oils, all those you think people should eliminate.
6:20 Alan Goldhamer? Absolutely. And then we also get rid of the added salt. Now, sodium is an essential nutrient without which you would die. But you get all of the salt you need from your whole-plant food diet.
6:30 Lewis Howes? What are the saltiest?
6:32 Alan Goldhamer? Well, some foods are very rich in salts, like your, your Swiss chard and your tomatoes and your, you know, that have a, naturally have a lot of salt. But the fact is, all vegetables and fruit have some level of sodium. And the amount of sodium you need is actually somewhat less than what people are eating on average. We get too much salt, which contributes to high blood pressure. It contributes to edema. And think about this, salt actually has a preservative effect on bacteria. It's why you salt meat to try to keep the bacteria down. When you eat a very high-salt diet, it could also potentially affect the microbiome that lives in your gut as well. So, people on high-salt diets may have different microbiome than people that eat a lower-sodium intake in the diet. Now, this is where we get some of the most aggressive criticism. Particularly from.
7:15 Alan Goldhamer? Modern advocates on a lot of the podcasts, they understand, okay, oil, maybe there's a problem with too much oil. Okay, sugar, pretty much there's a consensus now, sugar may not be good. But salt, oh no, we can't say that, because they like their salt, it's pink, it's blessed by the guru, it's special salt. They say, well, isn't the special salt better than the other salt? Well, sure, because it's contaminated with other minerals, so it's not as much sodium per volume. It's like saying, isn't honey better than sugar? Honey's twice as sweet per unit of, as sugar, so you use half as much of it. So it's therefore half as bad.
7:49 Lewis Howes? Right, right. Okay.
7:53 Alan Goldhamer? Basically, here's how you can do it. Here's a simple tool. If you want to look at something and think, should I eat it, or should I not eat it? Is it good for me now? I have a simple way. You just get really quiet and go inside yourself, close your eyes, and think, do I really, really, really, really want whatever it is? And if the answer is truly yes, you know, you can't have it. You've got nothing. Because you really, really, really want it, because it's activating the pleasure trap.
8:22 Lewis Howes? It's stimulating, don't mean desire, everything.
8:26 Alan Goldhamer? Nobody wakes up and says, I think I'll have a carrot. What, we're out of carrots? Call up the grocer, I don't care, wake him up, I can't wait till morning.
8:36 Lewis Howes? We're like, oh, I'm craving the pizza, I'm craving the ice cream, I'm craving the cheese, the milkshake, whatever it is.
8:42 Alan Goldhamer? Doesn't mean you don't like eating, believe me, people that eat a whole plate of food, they like to eat, they look forward to eating, they enjoy their food. It's just like, if you're used to very loud rock and roll, and you go and start maybe listening to classical music. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy your music anymore, but you're just not going to lose your hearing participating in it. Okay? So, but there is an adjustment, you know, and there's an adjustment to that, which is why I like fasting. Because after fasting, good foods taste good.
9:07 Lewis Howes? They taste good.
9:08 Alan Goldhamer? People that think it's tasteless, disgusting swill, they couldn't choke down the disgusting, now they eat it, it's like, oh, this tastes pretty good?
9:16 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it does.
9:16 Alan Goldhamer? Because the palate changes. We actually did a study, we actually did a taste adaptation study, it's actually going to be coming out this year. We're able to detect minimum threshold to have salt and sugar and show changes after fasting and also a change in the hedonic likeness of salty sugary and salty fatty foods. The palate actually changes in people after fasting to where the stuff they used to think they really liked, maybe now it doesn't have so much appeal. And the foods that maybe they weren't that interested in now have a stronger appeal because there's actually a change in the palate.
9:46 Lewis Howes? Crazy. And what about the five best foods? If you could only eat five foods for the rest of your life to live an optimal, healthy, you know, give your body what it needs, feel good at the same time in a positive way, what would be those five foods?
10:02 Alan Goldhamer? Well, I would say that on the fruit side, I particularly like watermelon. One of the reasons is it tends to be picked ripe, so it tends to be well tolerated by people. It's a high mineral content fruit. We use it a lot to terminate fasting. It's very rarely is are people allergenically inclined towards watermelon. It's readily available almost all year long. So I'd say watermelon and then berries. So any of the berries, but particularly blueberries and raspberries and blackberries, very nutritious. They have a little bit lower glycemic index than maybe some of the other hybridized, high sugar fruits that we commonly eat. On the vegetable side, there are some vegetables that are super nutritious like broccoli,
10:45 Alan Goldhamer? like kale and chard, you know, your greens, the whole class of steamed greens. You know, two cups of steamed broccoli has as much calcium as a cup of milk.
10:56 Lewis Howes? Really?
10:56 Alan Goldhamer? You know, without all the, you know, health compromising components and without any pus.
11:01 Lewis Howes? Yeah, well, don't put butter on it then. Yeah, yeah.
11:03 Alan Goldhamer? Well, you don't need it, though. Steamed broccoli is really good.
11:06 Lewis Howes? Don't put any salt on it either?
11:07 Alan Goldhamer? You don't need to add any salt. There's enough sodium to meet any needs.
11:10 Lewis Howes? It tastes better with the salt.
11:12 Alan Goldhamer? Well, of course, it tastes better because tasting better means more dopamine is produced. So you eat, you salt it up and your brain goes, oh, yeah, that's good. And then you're gonna, exactly.
11:18 Lewis Howes? You're ovary.
11:19 Alan Goldhamer? So then I would say, let's pick some starchy vegetables like a kabucha squash. It's certainly one of my favorites, or Hubbard or butternut, some of the squashes. Again, these are low chloric density, but easily processed, readily available, organic, all year round, very affordable and can be tolerated by most people. Even people that maybe can't take grains or beans or other, they might be sensitive to lectins or they have problem, almost everybody can handle starch. Just think about what you can feed infants. Most of them can tolerate these fruits or melons. They can feed avocado as a rich, a fat-rich food might be on that list. Again, you can overdo anything, but you know, and then maybe something like walnuts, flaxseeds that are really high omega-3 fatty acid foods.
12:04 Alan Goldhamer? And I think out of that diet, you could get all of the calories, vitamins, protein, nutrients you need, but except B12. You'd still need to supplement B12 because B12 is only found from bacteria. So if you're eating animal foods, of course, you're getting lots of bacterial contamination, lots of feces mixed in there. You're getting B12 in there. But yeah, but if you're eating plant-based foods and you're washing and peeling because you don't want worms and parasites, you can eventually deplete B12 stores. It might take you years, but eventually you can. So we recommend that vegans supplement 1,000 micrograms of methylbalmine a day. So a small amount of B12 supplement. That's the only supplement that we recommend routinely using. The other one that commonly comes up if people don't get outside and they're not getting their exercise is vitamin D. Sometimes D can be an issue. Best way to get it is the sun, but if you can't get out in the sun
12:49 Alan Goldhamer? enough or you live really far north or whatnot, then that may be another one supplementation may be necessary. Wow. What about protein partners? I don't recommend hyper-processed food of any kind, including protein powders. You know, getting enough protein is not the problem. It's getting too much protein that causes the kidney disease and the heart disease. So especially too much animal protein. So even for vegans that are not eating animal protein, we still want to respect these very concentrated protein foods in the sense that you do need protein, essential nutrients, 60, 70 grams a day depending on your caloric intake. And if you ate nothing but brown rice and broccoli, you'd get the quantity and quality of protein you eat if you got your calories sufficiently provided by your brown rice and your broccoli. You get about 80 grams of calories of protein on 2,000 calories of brown rice and broccoli. So I don't think
13:34 Alan Goldhamer? we have to worry about getting too much. The question is always avoiding excess protein intake. Now, people say, but if I increase my animal food intake, won't I gain muscle faster? And the answer is yes, you probably will. One, higher caloric load because of the fat. Two, more anabolic steroids because of the animal protein that you're eating and it's carrying across. And so just because you get bigger faster doesn't necessarily mean you're getting healthier as a consequence. So I think you can get where you need to go athletically without necessarily having to use animal foods. I know some people that have
14:06 Lewis Howes? Been on animal only, like meat only diets. Because they've said that there've been many complications from fruits and vegetables, and they were very sick on more of a plant-based diet. I don't know if this is extreme cases of individuals or what that is. Have you seen this where people are only functioning on meat-based diets only and not vegetables and fruits?
14:33 Alan Goldhamer? Well, I see people that have had problems eating anything because their microbiome is so screwed up that the only thing that they seem to not get to stress is animal food. But eating an animal food-only diet is not, in my opinion, a long-term, sustainable, health-promoting approach.
14:46 Lewis Howes? So it might be for a period of time.
14:47 Alan Goldhamer? For a short period of time, people can do just about anything. They can go on a standard American diet for sometimes years before it kills them.
14:53 Lewis Howes? Right.
14:53 Alan Goldhamer? Okay? So, you know, if people can eat that, you know...
14:57 Lewis Howes? You can live 70, 80 years on that.
14:58 Alan Goldhamer? So, but what I find is more common is that you have to correct the microbial imbalance.
15:04 Lewis Howes? How do you do that?
15:04 Alan Goldhamer? We do it with fasting. So we'll do fasting and then we'll follow it with a rotational, whole-plant food diet. We may not be able to use grains and beans and some of the more highly-processed foods, but we can usually find foods that people can digest, that they can get, recover their health on. I've never, since we don't use animal foods at all at True North Health, and we've managed to treat tens of thousands of patients, I guess it would be pretty rare. Or maybe those people wouldn't come to us, but, you know, that's not been a problem that we've run into.
15:33 Lewis Howes? Interesting. How much waste in poundage is inside the body, like, of just food waste?
15:41 Alan Goldhamer? Well, think about this.
15:41 Lewis Howes? At a time.
15:42 Alan Goldhamer? If you take the body and you divide it into two stacks, human cells and non-human cells, okay? Protozoa, bacteria, there's actually more non-human cells
15:54 Lewis Howes? Right.
15:55 Alan Goldhamer? than human cells.
15:56 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
15:56 Alan Goldhamer? So your relationship with
15:57 Lewis Howes? Alien cells.
15:58 Alan Goldhamer? All those related components is really important.
16:02 Lewis Howes? Right.
16:02 Alan Goldhamer? And your diet largely determines how they function and what that balance is.
16:07 Lewis Howes? How much, I guess, how much
16:08 Alan Goldhamer? So I guess it would depend on who you're talking about.
16:11 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
16:11 Alan Goldhamer? But if you, if you think about... The typical transit time and what total food is, there can be several pounds of material that accumulate that are passing through the body, but most of the materials that I'm concerned about is inside the cells.
16:24 Lewis Howes? Yes.
16:25 Alan Goldhamer? And that is mobilized into the blood, is processed by the kidneys and is eliminated in the urine.
16:31 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
16:32 Alan Goldhamer? And that's why it's necessary to maintain adequate hydration in fasting so that you have a solute, which is also why dry fasting could potentially be much more dangerous.
16:39 Lewis Howes? What is dry fasting?
16:40 Alan Goldhamer? Dry fasting is where you fast but no water.
16:42 Lewis Howes? No water, no food?
16:44 Alan Goldhamer? No water. Some people advocate, in fact, one of the gentlemen that used to advocate that passed away from it recently, but anyway, so people, they'll go up to a week or more. And the thing is, it can be fatal because you can shut the kidneys down and get dehydrated. We don't advocate dry fasting. We believe it's important that there be a solute available in the form of water so that there's something for the body to put the material in that it's trying to get rid of and a pathway for it to eliminate. So dry fasting is now, is advocated online, if you look online and people are utilizing it, but as I said, some people have suffered the consequences already from following that fast.
17:15 Lewis Howes? Oh, man. And when you start a water fast, how long does it take until you stop going to the bathroom? Number two.
17:27 Alan Goldhamer? Well, it would depend on what you've eaten before the fast, your autonomic nervous system that controls your movements, but most people after-
17:33 Lewis Howes? How many bowel movements usually after you stop eating?
17:36 Alan Goldhamer? Usually, once, once those initial bowel activity after 48, 72 hours stops, you may not see something, maybe till day 20, if enough material can accumulate, you might have another little movement.
17:45 Lewis Howes? Really?
17:46 Alan Goldhamer? And then bowel movements start again after a few days, once you get function back. So there can be bowel activity even deep into a fast, depending on what's being sloughed off and what's being eliminated.
17:54 Lewis Howes? Just because the toxins are finally coming out, huh?
17:55 Alan Goldhamer? Yeah, there's, there's all kinds of materials that take various times to pass, but if you have people that eat well before the fast and have a bowel movement before fasting, often there won't be bowel activity till recovery.
18:06 Lewis Howes? And what about your thoughts on, now that I'm thinking about this, what is it called where it's the water, you shoot the water up?
18:15 Alan Goldhamer? The enema.
18:16 Lewis Howes? Yes.
18:17 Alan Goldhamer? Yeah.
18:17 Lewis Howes? The water enema.
18:18 Alan Goldhamer? We don't advocate turning yourself into a bowel laundry.
18:22 Lewis Howes? Now, what is that, what are the positives and negatives of that before a fast to kind of like get the stuff out?
18:27 Alan Goldhamer? Yeah, the positives are that if you have some collected material and you flush those out, they don't turn into a brick over the time that they might be sitting around there in fasting. The way to solve that though is just eat properly before the fast, which is what we do. And then when you, the residual material would just be some vegetable cellulose. You're not going to have, you know, big chunks of dead decaying flesh turning into bricks.
18:48 Lewis Howes? Got it.
18:49 Alan Goldhamer? And so the disadvantage of doing too much with enemas is that you can debilitate the colon and then the balance becomes sluggish because you're overstimulating the autonomic nervous system. So we don't advocate routine use of that therapy, although, you know, there are circumstances where a post fasting colonic might be necessary because you have somebody that has neurological problems with their colon or whatever.
19:09 Lewis Howes? Got it, got it.
19:10 Alan Goldhamer? Mostly the idea of flushing yourself out is a misnomer because the toxins aren't in your stool. The toxins are in your blood and they show up in your urine. The stool, there's a tunnel that goes from your mouth down to the throat and there's a hole at the end called the anus. So digestion is shoving stuff in one hole and then pushing it out the other.
19:27 Lewis Howes? Right.
19:27 Alan Goldhamer? It's not unless it gets absorbed into the body through the intestinal mucosa that it gets in the body. You swallow something, it's not in your body, it's in a tunnel going through your body.
19:36 Lewis Howes? But there's things that are coming out into the cells.
19:38 Alan Goldhamer? If it absorbs into the cells, it has to be very small to get through the intestinal mucosa unless you have gut leakage, which comes from free radicals, which comes from eating oils.
19:46 Lewis Howes? Really?
19:46 Alan Goldhamer? Or cheese, or smoking, or drinking alcohol.
19:49 Lewis Howes? Leaky gut comes from that.
19:50 Alan Goldhamer? That's what causes the inflammation that causes the leakage.
19:53 Lewis Howes? Oh, man.
19:53 Alan Goldhamer? Or the widening of those cells that allows proteins to be absorbed that the immune system reacts to and then your immune system reacts to your own cells. So if you don't have the free radicals, the smoking, the drinking, the cheese, the oil, you tend not to get gut leakage.
20:06 Lewis Howes? Wow.
20:07 Alan Goldhamer? And so a person like yourself that maybe doesn't drink and smoke, doesn't have much gut leakage, may eat the thing and not notice much of a problem. Give that to a person with a permeable membrane. Oh my gosh, a single meal is enough to flare up their autoimmune condition.
20:21 Lewis Howes? Wow. This is fascinating stuff. What is the science that you've seen over the last 38 years? What's the newer science you've seen in research that really excites you of what's possible with fasting moving forward?
20:35 Alan Goldhamer? Well, in the past, the research was really more anecdotal. It was clinical research where patients with sicknesses got well.
20:41 Lewis Howes? Right.
20:42 Alan Goldhamer? And we saw that and it was exciting, but we couldn't explain why they got well. But now, particularly people like T. Colin Campbell from Cornell University, author of "Hole and the China Study," have done some massive epidemiological studies showing general dietary trends. He has a new book that's out, "The Future of Nutrition," which is really a brilliant book. And Dr. Campbell's really one of my heroes because he's really swam against the tide, so to speak. And then, most recently, Walter Longo from USC. He's a really brilliant scientist who's done a great job in supporting particularly intermittent fasting and doing research, looking both at animal and human studies,
21:25 Alan Goldhamer? kind of what's going on in the body and what's changing in the body. And so that research has been really exciting. And I've talked to Dr. Longo and we're hoping to do some collaborative studies comparing the intermittent and the long-term fasting. And he's just been a wonderful guy. And he has colleagues like Mattson and others that have done just fabulous research. We did a project with Luigi Fontana from Washington University, and that hasn't been published yet, but we've been looking at gut microbiome changes in work that we did with him. And the director of research at the TrueNorth Health Center is Tasha Myers, who's originally from Columbia University doing kind of basic science research. He really got excited about human subjects research. And she's come in and brought in other researchers that we have at TrueNorth.
22:09 Alan Goldhamer? So we're really excited about the stuff that we've done, that we're doing. We've got a couple of papers in the pipeline right now. We're doing a, next year, we'll be doing a phase three clinical trial with one of our colleagues at the Mayo Clinic, looking at not just the treatment of high blood pressure, but long-term follow-up and the biomarkers that change. And so this study we're just completing, it was the first one where we've had formalized follow-up data.
22:32 Lewis Howes? Okay.
22:33 Alan Goldhamer? Showing that people can not only get well in a contained setting, but you can get them free-living and they can sustain those results and continue to make progress.
22:38 Lewis Howes? That's exciting.
22:39 Alan Goldhamer? Because we were criticized early on. They said, "Well, it won't work." And they said, "Well, it works, but it'll only work as long as you have them in a controlled setting." And now they're going to have to explain how is it these people can be free-living and sustain.
22:48 Lewis Howes? Five, 10 years later, yeah.
22:49 Alan Goldhamer? I'm seeing patients now in my practice that are thirty-five years later. Wow. So I'm seeing people now that are in their eighties that I treated in their fifties. Wow. And, you know, in fact, one of the, one of my patients, when she was ninety-two, this is my mother, turned ninety-two, she realized she'd outlived all, fifty-two of her lifelong friends. So everybody she'd known and grown up with, every one of her friends was dead. And she was socially pretty isolated at this point. And she said, Alan, you need to warn your patients. Right. If they do this diet, make younger friends. Right. And she said, much younger, not just a little younger, because even by the time they were in their eighties, most of her friends weren't, you know, functional anymore.
23:34 Alan Goldhamer? Twenty years, thirty years younger. So if you're gonna do this, you have to be prepared for the fact that, you know, the people that you know that aren't doing it are gonna pay the price. And that's where you see the big differences in the last twenty years of life. Because instead of finding yourself unable to talk or move along in that nursing home bed, you can still be functional and vital. You know, Dr. Lyle and I see it, we're in our sixties now, playing basketball with people in their forties. They're already starting to show aging outside. Really? Even in their forties. Well, you're running around, you're feeling good. Well, especially in basketball, you can really see it, you know, it starts to show up earlier. They're winded. Well, they show in terms of capacity to recover. You know, you think about what, what happens to a guy in his mid-thirties in the NBA? He's considered like an old guy. Well, wait a second now.
24:16 Alan Goldhamer? You could be in your thirties and still have the skill set, maybe even still have the quickness. But what you don't have is the rapidity of recovery. So the guys that are playing late into their careers, it's because they're able to recover from injuries. How are they doing that? And that's because usually they literally healthier diet, less diet. If you look at Game Changers and other movies, you're looking at some of these competitive athletes. Many of these people that are adopting plant-based diets, they may not be the biggest, but they tend to be able to do, sustain the longest duration because they're able to recover. And I think that's the big difference with aging is people's recovery rate tends to slow. And particularly in a, in a professional sporting environment, we have, you know, eighty-two games a season like in the NBA, or now I guess it's seventy-seven.
24:57 Alan Goldhamer? You know, that's a really challenging burden, is to recover from the inevitable injuries that occur from playing at that level. And I think that if people adopt plant-based diets, not only do they have higher endurance potential, but they have better recovery potential. And they can be sustainable for much longer. And it's even more relevant for the weekend warrior that's not necessarily a professional athlete, but that, you know, just wants to be able to continue to function in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and hopefully 70s. Wow. What's the cost for someone to go to your clinic for a week? Well, we're a 501(c)(3) nonprofit research facility, so our costs are much lower than most places. It's $159 a night for a private room shared bathroom, includes everything we do. So feeding, fasting, twice daily business for the doctors. All the water you want.
25:41 Alan Goldhamer? All the water. What else are they going through? Feeding and all the things that we do. So we have a much more affordable model because we don't have the pressures that other people do generate return and stockholders, and we don't advertise. How are you guys making money to? We have a, we have staff that work really hard. We're really productive and efficient. We're booked fully several months in advance, and we have, you know, low cost per patient overhead. So we've designed it so that we can keep it affordable. Wow. Do you have people funding or donations or how's? We do have, that fund our research side, we absolutely have some very generous people. A lot of people, like, for example, we're one of the charities on Amazon through Amazon Smile. So if they pick us, they donate a half a percent.
26:24 Alan Goldhamer? We have people like Mama Says and Leafside and Well Your World where they offer SOS-free versions of their food, and they'll make a donation to the foundation for people that identify us as a source of their thing. We have all of the people that stay at True North Health, any proceeds from the operation of True North Health Clinic go to the True North Health Foundation. And so the foundation is largely funded by the fact that we run a really efficient operation. Right. And there's a small margin that helps fund the research. Wow. And then some patients have been very generous in supporting our research directly.
26:57 Alan Goldhamer? Where do you see your life being right now if you weren't into fasting? Where would you be? Well, when I was 16, I met Dr. Gerald Benish, and he told me that his job doing this kind of work, he had the best job in the whole world because the patients did all the work. The body did all the healing and all he had to do is take credit for the good result.
27:16 Lewis Howes? Right.
27:16 Alan Goldhamer? And I thought then that's the job for me. And the reason we're focused on this research is because that's the way to compellingly convince people that health really does result from healthful living. And we want to learn how to do it better, how to do it more effectively. I have, I live in the best place in the world. I have the best job in the world. We live in Santa Rosa because we thought that would be the best place to live. We're doing the work that we're doing right now because we thought that would be the most fun, the most challenging. I can't really think of anything I'd rather be doing than what I'm doing right now.
27:45 Lewis Howes? Where do you think you would be in your body if you weren't practicing what you're preaching?
27:49 Alan Goldhamer? I think I'd be just like everybody else, overweight, developing disease of dietary excess, probably be working on my first heart attack or first, you know, other thing, just like everybody else. You know, I don't think there's anything special about me, except that I got started earlier. And so I never developed a bad habit, so it's been easier. And also I live at the True North Health Center where it's really easy to eat healthy every day. We have about 20 of our staff that live at the True North Health Center or in our adjacent apartment building. And I notice they maintain a high degree of health. They don't have sick time. I'll tell you what, there's nothing better for an employer, I've got 70 employees, than having people that aren't sick and debilitated and missing work and not functioning at their full potential. And making healthy food available to our employees, allowing them to fast as part of their benefit package.
28:34 Alan Goldhamer? Guess what? We have people that have been with us 30 years or more, working every day. I can show you 30 years' history where they've not been out as a consequence of illness because they're staying healthy. Prevention's a lot better than treatment.
28:46 Lewis Howes? It is. Is everyone there plant-based? Who works there?
28:51 Alan Goldhamer? Well, all, the only food that we offer is plant-based, so those that live there have no choice.
28:55 Lewis Howes? Unless they go off.
28:56 Alan Goldhamer? That's the food that's available.
28:57 Lewis Howes? Yeah, yeah. They might have some fish every now and there or something, who knows? They're sneaking off and hiding.
29:02 Alan Goldhamer? People that are living and eating at the center, that's what their choices are. So whatever they do in their personal life is their personal life.
29:08 Lewis Howes? So every, so every day you have people coming in and also weaning off or eating food as well? Or is it they come in for a set time and then it's like feeding time?
29:17 Alan Goldhamer? Well, most patients come in and feed down into the fasting state. Some people, if they've done a really good job before, they get to work pretty quickly. And everybody goes through a refeeding period of half-life to fast, but many people are never fasting. They're coming for feeding or therapy or other things too. So we've had 20,000 people undergo fasting. We might've had almost twice that many patients come through the clinic. So we've had, we see, you know, 1,200 new admissions a year. So we're processing a lot of people. We have a dozen clinicians. You know, one of the things that we have since the pandemic that's been really interesting is we developed a telemedicine practice. So we took our doctors, our attendings, and we made them available online. So that people can go through Zoom and call in and ask their questions and have a doctor
29:59 Alan Goldhamer? at their disposal affordably that's not an idiot, that's used to people getting well, that can give them a second opinion. Yeah. That thing has really taken off. And of course, I like it because the proceeds from that all go to the True North Health Foundation, so it's fun to our research. But now we're able to service the whole world. So a lot of our particularly foreign patients that we're already working with are able to access us efficiently through our... They just go to our website and they click on the phone coaching service. And so now we can service people with this kind of advice remotely without them even having to come to the center. Because a lot of times it's just they just need good advice. Right. They just need some... How much does a call with someone on your team? It's $95 for a 20-minute consult.
30:43 Alan Goldhamer? And it's all electronic, so they go online, they fill out their registration forms online. We have all their health history information. They email us, their lab, it all can be reviewed. And then we can work with their local doctor if they need something. We can refer them to a place that may be closer. Because you know, True North is in California is great, but not everybody lives in California. Yeah. There are people that live in all the other states. Of course. And we have doctors that we've trained through our residency training program. We have doctors that come and train with us, like from Texas A&M or from the naturopaths or the chiropractors will come and train a part of our residency program. And then they go into practice. Sure, sure. We can refer to them, people that maybe need a local doctor. Right. And the website is where, where they can do this? We have two websites.
31:25 Alan Goldhamer? It's healthpromoting.com, which is our main website. Healthpromoting.com. Healthpromoting.com is a simple way to get there. Okay. We also have a site for the foundation. It's called fasting.org.
31:38 Alan Goldhamer? And fasting.org is just a fasting companion website of the research on fasting. Ours and other people's readily available. And it's new, so that's a newly launched site.
31:47 Lewis Howes? That's right.
31:47 Alan Goldhamer? Particularly for people interested in fasting. For people interested in our content, our articles, our Roku channel, our True North TV, all that, freely available. Everything's easy to get to you. Just go to healthpromoting.com and it's all right there.
32:03 Lewis Howes? I love this. You've got a book also.
32:05 Alan Goldhamer? We do.
32:06 Lewis Howes? You wrote, this is about 15 years ago you did this.
32:08 Alan Goldhamer? You're ahead of the time. We were way ahead of the curve on The Pleasure Trap.
32:11 Lewis Howes? Called The Pleasure Trap: Mastering the Hidden Force That Undermines Health and Happiness. And what is that hidden force?
32:18 Alan Goldhamer? That hidden force is the artificial stimulation of dopamine that comes from, in the case of diet, highly processed foods. And so it's the sugar, oil, and salt that makes people fat, sick, and miserable. And we talk about why it's difficult to make changes. This is a really disturbing book because it doesn't tell you what you want to hear. It tells you what you need to know to get and stay healthy. It tells you why it's hard to make changes and why people are so resistant to it. But it gives you a clear strategy to do so successfully, including the use of fasting.
32:47 Lewis Howes? And you have, one of the key words on the cover, you have medications, drugs, alcohol, tobacco, but the top of the list is sex. Is sex a bad thing?
32:58 Alan Goldhamer? Sex is a good thing. It's necessary for our species to survive. If it wasn't for the ability to engage in sexual reproduction, our species wouldn't have made it. And it's food and sex that are the natural, normal stimulants of dopamine. Okay, so that's, and it's only food and sex that naturally cause those powerful stimulations. But the problem is, we figured out a way to fool that with drugs, with highly processed foods. So we stimulate dopamine just like you naturally get from sex with things like drugs. For example, if you smoke cocaine, you get 10 times as much dopamine released as if you have an orgasm during sex.
33:32 Lewis Howes? No way.
33:33 Alan Goldhamer? 10 times as much dopamine is secreted. People say, "What?"
33:36 Lewis Howes? I gotta get on cocaine.
33:39 Alan Goldhamer? The problem is it's an artificial stimulation and it can lead to addiction. And so the problem is, yes, very powerful, very addictive. The normal stimulation of dopamine, good. The artificial stimulation of dopamine is the pleasure trap.
33:52 Lewis Howes? What is the artificial, if you're getting 10 times the amount of what you're supposed to get, what does that do to the body?
33:57 Alan Goldhamer? Well, what it does is it's like the hallmark of addiction is you'll continue to do something, not just to feel good, but when you stop doing it, you feel really bad. The hallmark of
34:05 Lewis Howes? Like you said, anytime there's a stimulus, there's a depression.
34:08 Alan Goldhamer? We talk a lot about this. There's actually a chart in the book that explains this hyper-normal stimulation, whether it's from drug behavior or a drug-like behavior, which comes from the chemicals added to food.
34:20 Lewis Howes? Sugar, salt.
34:22 Alan Goldhamer? Now, these concepts that we talked about when we wrote this book are now becoming much more acceptable and you're finding other books that are coming out there talking about, you know, the drug-like effects of sugar and that. And so I feel really gratified that these ideas that were expressed so clearly by Dr. Lyle, the principal author of this book, are now being reflected more in the mainstream. And I, you know, we went back through this recently. Chef AJ did a professional audio version of it. And it's great. And so for people that don't like to read, they can listen to it.
34:52 Lewis Howes? Yes.
34:52 Alan Goldhamer? And I listened to it. And I actually got more out of the same book, listening to it, because you process information differently. And one of the things that I really got was that this content was really sharply right on, even though it was written, as you mentioned, some years ago. And what's interesting is the sales of the pleasure trap now are actually better now than they were back then. Because now communication is a lot broader.
35:17 Lewis Howes? Right.
35:18 Alan Goldhamer? And so when I used to talk to public lectures to 100 people or 500 people, now these podcasts we're doing, like I did that show with Rich Roll, and I think there's almost 2 million people that have listened to it.
35:28 Lewis Howes? Crazy.
35:28 Alan Goldhamer? So that would have been 500 years of talking.
35:31 Lewis Howes? Right, right, exactly.
35:32 Alan Goldhamer? So now this invention of the podcast, which I think is relatively recent, has changed the way people like me that have really radical concepts can communicate with much broader audiences.
35:45 Lewis Howes? It's beautiful. I love, I love our show and our ability to spread these messages. You also have a pleasure trap test that people can take a number of questions and assess to see how healthy of a lifestyle they have, or how duped they are by pleasures of food and all these different things.
36:01 Alan Goldhamer? Well, it gives them a sense of how hard they're gonna have to work. You know, if you were, like you, you're gonna score quite high because you never got exposed to the drugs and the other things. And those things weigh quite heavily.
36:11 Lewis Howes? Right.
36:11 Alan Goldhamer? And the reason they weigh heavily is because they have a major effect on people. And so people that didn't do that can get away with a whole lot of other things without it necessarily showing up. So you had.
36:20 Lewis Howes? You can have some of the cheese and.
36:22 Alan Goldhamer? And it may not catch up as much. But also remember, a lot of it depends on genetics. How long you're gonna live is largely determined by genetics and luck. You know, you were lucky to have good genes. You're lucky to have been exposed to an advanced spectrum that maybe minimized your exposure to some of the evil influences. But how well you're gonna live is gonna determine what you put in your mouth and how you live your life. And so what we have to focus on is whatever genes you have and whatever use and abuse has occurred, from here on out, you have to take responsibility to control your diet and lifestyle. And if you wanna have a good chance of having a good life and a good death, now's the time to get focused. And that's what we're trying to share with people, is what can you do to have not just a good life, but to also make the last part of your life an even richer part of the first part?
37:04 Lewis Howes? Yeah, I've heard too many stories and I've seen it. I'm starting to see it more with people that I know and family members who are extended family members, who are struggling and who are unhealthy and there's not really a return point. There's not really a way to go back to healthy. Maybe there is, but they're not making the choices and the actions necessary in order to start helping themselves. And it's almost sometimes where it's too late, right? Can you ever reverse something if it's too late?
37:34 Alan Goldhamer? In my practice, it's amazing how forgiving the body is.
37:37 Lewis Howes? Really?
37:37 Alan Goldhamer? I see people, I remember when I was in Australia, I was going to osteopathic college and I was studying with Dr. Burton at his, what was called the Arcadia Health Center. He did a lot of fasting. And I would see people coming in thinking, no way. I thought if this one comes good. Oh, really?
37:53 Lewis Howes? I believe it.
37:54 Alan Goldhamer? I said it like 200 times.
37:55 Lewis Howes? Like chronic, like can't walk, they're like stiff, they're obese, all these things.
38:00 Alan Goldhamer? You see the tumors drop off, the energy come back, the cognitive. I'll give you an example. We published a paper recently on a gentleman who was in his 80s that they thought was going through cognitive decline. And dementia, who also had atrial fibrillation, hypertension, diabetes. And all we did was unwind his medications, clean up his diet. And he woke up because it turned out he didn't have dementia. He had polypharmacy.
38:26 Lewis Howes? What was that?
38:26 Alan Goldhamer? Excess drugs causing cognitive decline.
38:29 Lewis Howes? Causing him to be slower and memory loss.
38:31 Alan Goldhamer? It looked like Alzheimer's, but it was actually.
38:33 Lewis Howes? Wow.
38:34 Alan Goldhamer? And as soon as the medications cleared his system, he was like, oh, woke back up.
38:38 Lewis Howes? Sharp.
38:39 Alan Goldhamer? Got up, normalized his atrial fibrillation, he got off his meds, he normalized his blood pressure. Interesting, one of the reviewers in the case report that we submitted to the medical journal said, wow, what an amazing result. But what made you guys think it was the drugs?
38:54 Lewis Howes? Oh, wow.
38:55 Alan Goldhamer? So just getting people off their medications appropriately.
38:59 Lewis Howes? Right.
38:59 Alan Goldhamer? Can sometimes make a huge difference because it turns out some people are on too much medication. Some people are on the wrong medications and almost everybody's on medications as a consequence of poor dietary choices. So if you're willing to correct the dietary choices, the need for medications can be mitigated.
39:15 Lewis Howes? What does medication do to the brain and the body? When you take one medication?
39:19 Alan Goldhamer? It depends on the medication. But if you, any medication, just go look up the side effects, the three pages in, in the text. Or listen to any ad on the television.
39:30 Lewis Howes? The whole ad is about the side effects in a loving, beautiful way with soft music.
39:34 Alan Goldhamer? Side effects, those are effects, they're just effects you don't like. Those are what medications do to the body. Sometimes they do it in a more powerful way that you don't find convenient, so we call them side effects. But they're all physiological effects of medications.
39:48 Lewis Howes? You think most people, what's your percentage of people that you think could get off medication if they lived a healthier? Lifestyle with fasting and proper nutrition.
39:59 Alan Goldhamer? Well, if we talk about the people that we treat, the people with high blood pressure, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, lymphoma, most of those people are going to be able to achieve levels without the use of medication. But even those people that might require some pharmaceutical medications will function better on a healthy diet and lifestyle. A lot of the side effects from the medications are complicated by the poor diet and lifestyle choices people are making.
40:22 Lewis Howes? Right.
40:23 Alan Goldhamer? And yet, if you go onto the websites of some of the medical societies, they'll tell you, "We can't cure high blood pressure because we don't know what causes it. So just take the drugs and don't ask too many questions." So, you know, it's not really true. Drugs cause chronic cough, fatigue, impotence, and death. That's why they don't give everybody blood pressure medication. 60% of people have high blood pressure by the time they reach retirement age. Why don't they just put it in the public water stream for that? Because the negative effects of the medication outweigh the positive effects for everybody except those with the highest levels of hypertension.
40:54 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
40:55 Alan Goldhamer? So, don't underestimate the negative effects that medications, including commonly-used over-the-counter medications, can have on people.
41:02 Lewis Howes? Right, right. Any medication. This has been fascinating. I want to make sure people get your book, The Pleasure Trap: Mastering the Hidden Force That Undermines Health and Happiness. I want to make sure they check out your website. Health, is it Health Promoting or Healthy Promoting?
41:18 Alan Goldhamer? Health Promoting.
41:18 Lewis Howes? HealthPromoting.com and also fasting.org. If you want to learn more about fasting, check out True North. Are you getting more on social media now yourself, or?
41:29 Alan Goldhamer? What I've done is gone on people like yourself that have been kind enough to ask me to come on and share my radical message.
41:34 Lewis Howes? Yes.
41:34 Alan Goldhamer? I really don't know too much about the nuances of social media.
41:38 Lewis Howes? Social media.
41:38 Alan Goldhamer? But, you know, I'm confident that the people that, like you, that know what they're doing are getting the message out.
41:43 Lewis Howes? There you go. Well, HealthPromoting.com to learn more, schedule a call, check out the center. I might have to, I might send my mom over to your place and send her there for a week or two.
41:52 Alan Goldhamer? I think you should come, experience a short fast and go through that process yourself.
41:56 Lewis Howes? Like, what, three days, maybe?
41:57 Alan Goldhamer? Hey, well, let's, let's take it a day at a time and see how you hold up.
42:00 Lewis Howes? Okay.
42:01 Alan Goldhamer? Might be very entertaining for your viewers.
42:02 Lewis Howes? I know. Maybe I could do three days. Because then I have to do, what, a day and a half of feeding, right?
42:07 Alan Goldhamer? Yeah, a little bit.
42:10 Lewis Howes? Three to five days, maybe I could do that. Um, could be interesting. I'd be down. I'd be down to test it out. So if you're, if you're well, if you're bringing me in, I'm down to check it out. This is a question I ask everyone at the end called the three truths. So I'd like you to imagine you live as long as you want to live, but it's eventually your last day. And you've accomplished all of your wildest dreams. You've lived your life the way you want to live it. You have the relationships and you're helping people, you're educating, everything you want to do, you do it. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your messages with you to the next place, wherever you're going next. And no one has access to your book, this interview, content, your information anymore. But you get to leave behind three lessons that you would share with the world.
42:54 Lewis Howes? This is all we would have to remember your information by. What would you say are those three truths for you?
43:00 Alan Goldhamer? So health is the result of healthful living. Healthful living involves diet, sleep and exercise. And fasting can be very helpful at undoing the consequences of dietary excess.
43:12 Lewis Howes? There you go. Say one more time, the first one, health is the
43:15 Alan Goldhamer? That health is the result of healthful living.
43:19 Lewis Howes? Yes.
43:19 Alan Goldhamer? That healthful living involves a healthy diet, sleep and exercise. And that fasting can help undo the consequences of dietary excess.
43:29 Lewis Howes? I love it. I want to acknowledge you, Dr. Alan Goldhamer, for, for being radical and taking chances to see these transformations in people that really have nowhere else to go. And for doing it for 38 years now, and now showing up and sharing your message online and putting it out there more. I hope you do more content like this. I think more people need to be willing to try things, even if it's a two day, a three day, or even just 16 hours, to see the results they get by trying a little bit and then pushing the boundaries for their own health and happiness. So I acknowledge you for showing up for four decades doing this, for being the example, for leading the way, for getting now research that backs these things.
44:13 Lewis Howes? So people are more educated and can see case studies and results, peer reviewed results, things like that. So I acknowledge you for constantly showing up and being a healing force to, for the world.
44:24 Alan Goldhamer? Thank you.
44:24 Lewis Howes? It's inspiring. My final question is, what's your definition of greatness?
44:30 Alan Goldhamer? Where people are doing what they want to do and in the way they want to do it. There you go. Appreciate you very much. Thank you.
44:39 Lewis Howes? I hope you enjoyed this episode. Again, if you did, make sure to share this with a friend and check out part one as well if you haven't already. LewisHowes.com/1024 or you can just scroll back and listen to the previous episode on your podcast app. It should be right there. And a big thank you for listening. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify so you can stay up to date on the latest and greatest from the School of Greatness podcast. And I'd love your ratings and reviews over on Apple. If you can, leave us a rating and review. Let us know what you enjoyed most about this episode, what you enjoyed, the information that you got most out of this, or give us some feedback on how we can make it better as well, as we're always looking to improve and help you improve the quality of your life. And I want to leave you with this quote from Carolyn Miss, who said, "What drains
45:22 Lewis Howes? your spirit drains your body. What fuels your spirit fuels your body." And every day, we have an opportunity to add things into our mind, into our body, that can bring us life or make us feel like we are exhausted. So make sure that you're taking the moments every single day to make the right choices on bringing energy, giving things to your mind and your body, and start eliminating some of the things that really are holding you back. I know sometimes these decisions can be hard to make, but you're worth it. And I want to remind you, if no one's told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.
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