Lewis Howes: “Martha & I Did Everything Backwards!” How I Found Lasting Love with My Partner

In this heartfelt episode, I have the pleasure of joining my good friend and Greatness Network partner Rob Dial for a deep dive into personal growth, relationships, and inner peace. Rob's thoughtful questions lead me to open up about my journey of healing from childhood trauma and learning the power of vulnerability. I share my evolution in relationships and the lessons I've learned along the way. We discuss the crucial elements of building strong partnerships, the transformative impact of therapy, and my current preparations for marriage and fatherhood. Rob's insightful approach allows me to offer candid advice and personal reflections that I hope will resonate with anyone striving for healthier relationships and personal development. This conversation is filled with raw honesty, practical wisdom, and moments of genuine connection that just might spark some transformative realizations for listeners. In this episode you will learnHow vulnerability and opening up about past trauma can set you freeThe importance of starting relationships with clear communication and agreementsWhy therapy and continuous personal growth are crucial for healthy partnershipsHow to prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for major life transitionsThe power of accepting your partner fully and not trying to change themStrategies for having difficult but necessary conversations in relationshipsFor more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1669For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Eckhart Tolle – https://link.chtbl.com/1463-podRhonda Byrne – https://link.chtbl.com/1525-podJohn Maxwell – https://link.chtbl.com/1501-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  The thing is, when we are constantly running away from our past, we're always going to be running away and chasing something else to try to feel enough. I just never felt good.

• 0:09Rob Dial?

  Did you notice any transformation within yourself in the way that you viewed the traumas that happened to you when you started talking about it?

• 0:15Lewis Howes?

  It set me free. Rob Dial, the Mindset Mentor.

• 0:19Rob Dial?

  Author of the book Level Up.

• 0:21Lewis Howes?

  One of the best interviews I probably did in this last year. Enjoy this interview with me on his show. I think relationships are extremely hard if you're unwilling to have courageous conversations. And they are going to be hard and they're going to be exhausting because you're going to expect someone else to understand you when you're not communicating with courage to them about your needs, your wants and desires. I said to her, okay, there's a couple of things that I want to create. We needed to start the relationship in therapy because every relationship that I had before ended in therapy and then it ended poorly. People would say, man, that seems like a lot of work. It's kind of heavy. You know what's heavy is going through years of relationships that don't work. Sleepless nights, dealing with emotional turmoil from someone who wants you to change who you are.

• 1:04Rob Dial?

  What is Lewis Howes' mountain that he's climbing or thing that he's working on? Where are you at right now?

• 1:09Lewis Howes?

  There's three things that came to mind.

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  Hey everyone, Lewis Howes here. Before we dive in, this episode that you're about to watch is from an episode I did on Rob Dial, the Mindset Mentor Show, and it's one of the best interviews I probably did in this last year. Rob has a unique way of interviewing and connecting with people on their dreams, their vision, their goals. And he really dove in deep. Make sure to subscribe to his channel, the Mindset Mentor, as well as he's part of the Greatness Network. And I hope you enjoy this interview with me on his show.

• 1:44Rob Dial?

  Welcome everybody to the Mindset Mentor Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Dial. If it looks a little bit different for those of you guys that are looking on YouTube, I am in Lewis Howes' basement. Don't worry, I'm not captive of him. We are in his studio that is, that is in his basement and I'm excited to be here and be with you, man. And excited to also announce for those of you guys that didn't see it, I have joined the Greatness Network. So the School of Greatness podcast is Lewis and we have the Greatness Network, which I have joined with him and Sirius XM. And so I am excited to sit down with you and chat. This is round three of my podcast.

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  Let's go, baby.

• 2:20Rob Dial?

  I believe, yeah.

• 2:21Lewis Howes?

  We're having fun. Is it?

• 2:22Rob Dial?

  It is.

• 2:22Lewis Howes?

  Third time.

• 2:23Rob Dial?

  Third time, third time in three years. You're one of two people that's been on three times.

• 2:26Lewis Howes?

  All right, let's do it.

• 2:27Rob Dial?

  So I'm excited to have you with me, man. I was reflecting on the drive over here, which I told you I was on your show. I started getting kind of teary eyed because I was thinking about this journey of life that I've been on. And I remember when I lived with my friend, Dave, at his house, and he was listening to a podcast on his phone and he was doing laundry. And I was like, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm listening to a podcast. And I was like, why? Who would do that? This is 2016 ish. And he was listening to School of Greatness podcast. And I was listening to it. I was like, this is cool. I was like, I think I could probably do something like this. I might be good at this. I should give it a shot. And so it's crazy, this, this journey that I've been on to growing it. And you've had a podcast longer than I've had a podcast, a couple of years longer than I have.

• 3:11Lewis Howes?

  11 years.

• 3:12Rob Dial?

  And when I first started, I was like, I felt like there was nobody in the space.

• 3:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 3:16Rob Dial?

  And so I'm curious with you, just in the beginning, like, what's the journey been like for you? A young guy, 11 years ago, I think I'm going to do this thing that not many people are doing to now over billions of views and downloads. If you take a step back and like, think about it, what's the journey been like for you? And what are some things that you've learned along this journey?

• 3:36Lewis Howes?

  A lot of gratitude for the journey because I've had over 1,500 episodes. So I've got to meet a lot of incredible minds and individuals from all walks of life, business, sports, arts, all these different things, science. And so I feel completely grateful for the proximity that I have to inspiring people.

• 3:56Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  People with resources, with knowledge, with, you know, results that I can learn from. And then extremely grateful that I can record it and share it with other people, just like what you do. So grateful for that. But also my mind goes to all the things I wish I could have done differently. Right? It's like, I'm grateful for all the, the good. And I'm like, man, if, if I would have just focused a little bit better this first five years, how much more impact could we have? So I think about that as well, because I was doing a lot when I first started. The podcast, similar to you, was not a thing I wanted to make money with. It was a thing to impact people, build an audience and a platform with,

• 4:36Lewis Howes?

  you know, build my personal brand with and drive people back to my coaching and courses and events and membership sites. So it was a tool to drive people back to other things.

• 4:45Rob Dial?

  Right.

• 4:47Lewis Howes?

  And if I could do it all over again, I probably just focused on making it the main thing 11 years ago. Um, but I was at a different time in my life. We couldn't monetize podcasting back then. Really, it was really clunky and challenging. So,

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  but it's all been a beautiful journey.

• 5:02Rob Dial?

  Yeah. What um, what do you think you've learned about yourself through the process? Like, cause, cause putting yourself out there online is a scary thing because you're basically putting yourself out there to be judged by people, possibly judged by people.

• 5:17Rob Dial?

  To have people say that they don't like you, they don't like your message, you don't like you look like, you know, it's, it's putting us up to one of our biggest fears as humans, which is the fear of judgment and the fear of other people's opinions.

• 5:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:28Rob Dial?

  And so what I have found is through the years, um, I don't care about any of those things anymore, but it wasn't that way years ago. And so I'm curious, like, what are some of the hurdles that you had to overcome within yourself to decide I'm going to, you know, build this massive personal brand?

• 5:43Lewis Howes?

  I think I did. I think I was smart in a certain way in the early on because I didn't want to make it my name. I think I had too much fear around being the authority. I didn't think I was smart enough back then or had enough experience. You know, I was 30 years old. So I didn't call it the Lewis Howes Show. I called it the School of Greatness with my name. I think that gave me a lot more peace because I can make it about others. And so also in the transition of that,

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  more people are like, hey, we want to hear from more from you. So I've had to overcome that now and I'm starting to do more solo content and more individual, personal content, which I've always kind of shied away from.

• 6:23Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 6:24Lewis Howes?

  For a number of reasons. One ego, I didn't want my ego to be like running the show and be like, look at me, you know, I have all the answers, which I've never thought that I did. Two, you're setting yourself up for more criticism when it is your personal content.

• 6:38Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  More. Uh, and three, I think it's like wanting to make sure that I'm always living in humility and in service. But I was talking with a friend, Jason Wilson, the other day, who's, you know, pretty big on social media. And I keep telling him, dude, everyone wants to hear more from you. But he's like, you know, I just want to be in service and I don't want to, they want it to be about me. And I'm like, you're a mirror to me right now because. People need your wisdom and they want to hear from you.

• 7:03Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Lewis Howes?

  And if they read your book, that's great, but then if they don't have more content to go afterwards, then you leave them with just the book and then nothing else. And they want more from you teachings, content, messages. So I'm in a season now where I'm starting to do more personal content. But again, I also just had too much on my plate that I didn't have the space and the energy to think creatively to create personal content. So now I'm trying to empower my team, let go more, so I can have space and energy to create my own stuff.

• 7:34Rob Dial?

  Yeah. And so that's interesting because I know that, you know, we've talked about it and we both kind of had the fear of not being smart and kind of being dumb kids when we were younger and stuff like that. So as you start creating more content, what I find with people, and I'm trying to even talk more about my personal life because I'm, I like to teach, I like to instruct. And, and what I've come to find is that when I start to talk about my personal life, people make connections in their own life and they're like, oh, Lewis is just like me.

• 7:59Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 7:59Rob Dial?

  It's not unattainable for me to get to that. It's not unattainable for me to, to do what they have done. And, um, and what I think is, uh, it's, it's hard because it's kind of like the, the, there's a phrase, a Native American phrase that says the brightest light gets the arrows. It's like, we know that in order to step up and put ourself in front, it allows us to be completely open to get arrows for other people. But then you go back to the, the thing where it's like your mess is your message. Like I think even for myself, when it's like, oh yeah, I can instruct and I can teach people these things. When I'm like, hey, here's what I'm dealing with. Here's what I've dealt with and here's how I worked through it. I think people kind of click in a little bit more and, and listen a little bit more.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 8:40Rob Dial?

  And I'm, I'm curious for you, have you noticed working through the fear, putting yourself out there that you've actually felt more of a connection or more acceptance from other people because of that?

• 8:49Lewis Howes?

  A hundred percent. I mean, in the first year of doing my show, I remember it was all, it was a lot more towards like how to be successful and how to win and how to like be the best was like a lot of my content. From the interviews I was doing, it was like, how do, how do you become number one in what you do? How do you become the best? That was kind of the language. And then I went through a personal journey where I started a healing journey. I opened up about sexual abuse that I went through. I I talked about different family challenges I had, and I just started opening up about these struggles that I faced in my own life. And I started shifting in the content and the questions I was asking on my show. And so many people started saying, hey, I'm noticing something different. I really like the way you're communicating. Like, I liked you before.

• 9:35Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  But this is a different level of you. And I feel like I've had that probably three or four times over 11 years, where I've gone through an even deeper transformation, or an evolution, or a reflection, or a breakdown, or something's happened in my life. You know, I've been through three different breakups in the last 11 years in relationships. So that unpacks a lot of different things inside of me. And I go and I bring on all these different therapists when I'm in breakups and I talk about these things.

• 10:01Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 10:02Lewis Howes?

  So I think people get to learn, as I break down or have challenges in my life, I'm very open about them. I may not say specific personal details about certain people, but I'm very open about what I'm experiencing. And I try to navigate that. And I think that's been really helpful for people to see that I'm kind of like a guinea pig of my emotions on my show. And so that's, that's been really helpful, seeing that transformation. And I think it's brought my audience in a deeper relationship with me, because I'm willing to go there.

• 10:36Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 10:37Lewis Howes?

  And it's hard to stay in the game of something for eight, nine, 10 years, 11 years. It's hard to stay consistent and relevant, or unless you're evolving. You know, if we're not evolving in this industry, then there's going to be new people who are evolving and creating things in a different way that's going to be attracting connection with audiences. So it's making sure that we're evolving, that we're improving it, that we're always trying to get better. And I think that's been helpful. But if I'm not getting better on the inside, then it's not going to matter what happens in the content on the outside.

• 11:10Rob Dial?

  Yeah. I'm curious, man. So you've had, you've had three books. You had The School of Greatness was the first one. The Mask of Masculinity was the second one. And the third one, which is the one in front of us that everyone should buy, is The Greatness Mindset. If we can go back to The Mask of Masculinity, I remember following your journey and following when you actually started talking about like, the sexual abuse and all of that. I can say from my, when my father being an alcoholic came past when I was a kid, I tried to hide it as much as possible.

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 11:36Rob Dial?

  I was so ashamed of it. And then when I started talking about it, I realized that it stopped having power over me. And it went from me taking power over this thing that felt like had power over me. I'm curious, as you, as you put up like the mask of masculinity, you put that out, you started talking about the sexual abuse. There's a lot of people out there that have been through a lot of different traumas and we try to hide it. Did you notice any transformation within yourself in the way that you viewed the traumas that happened to you when you started talking about it?

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it set me free.

• 12:06Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 12:06Lewis Howes?

  Set me free, like you said, I took my power back. For 25 years, no one knew about the shame or the, the secret that I kept inside of me. Like I wasn't willing to share the secret. And when I started talking about the secret of me being sexually abused by a man that I didn't know. It was the most terrifying thing because I started telling, you know, my family and friends one by one. And it was terrifying because I didn't think I'd be accepted or loved. And when I was able to get on the other side of that and realize it brought us closer together, I was like, wow. The thing I've been most afraid of has been holding me back from feeling the most loved and connected.

• 12:44Rob Dial?

  Wow.

• 12:45Lewis Howes?

  All I needed to do was have the courage to authentically express it. Now, I think there's a time and a place and a context setting that needs to happen in order to express a shame or a secret. I don't think you just blurt it out to anyone.

• 13:00Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  You have to trust the person in front of you to be able to receive the secret or the shame that you've been holding on to, especially for a long time. So I had a therapist kind of guide me in the process of talking about it with people closest to me. And I was just like, I'm really afraid to talk about this. I had opened up about it in a, in an emotional intelligence workshop in kind of a safe environment in front of 50 people. That was the most terrifying thing, but these people didn't know me. So it was still extremely difficult to do. It took many days for me to finally get to open up. I didn't even know I was going to talk about it. But there was an exercise that said, hey, listen, we, we've covered a lot of things from our past. And now we're going to start creating the future that we desire.

• 13:45Lewis Howes?

  But in order to step into a desired future of abundance and joy and love and peace, we need to address the things in our past. And start to let them go and process them and start to heal. So if there's, the facilitator said, so if there's anything that you haven't said yet, or you haven't addressed yet, that you need to address, now's your moment.

• 14:04Rob Dial?

  Wow.

• 14:06Lewis Howes?

  If not, like, we're moving forward. But if you hold on to that, it's just gonna be harder. And I was like, okay, I'm in this experience. I'm in this workshop. I've been like committed. It's been two weekends. I've seen other people open up. I've opened up about challenges. My parents went through divorce and how challenging that was being a kid from them arguing and fighting all the time and the stresses. Talked about being dyslexic and being picked on and made fun of with all these kids in school. My brother was in prison when I was eight. So for four and a half years, I went to a, you know, a visiting room at the prison and felt shame and humiliation because this had happened to a family member and my my small community knew about it and they didn't accept us.

• 14:46Lewis Howes?

  I had to deal with all these different things that I talked about, breakups that I went through as a, you know, my twenties. And I was like, okay, I addressed all these things. I think I'm good. And then something just said, well, what about that? Time you were sexually abused. Why have you never shared this with anyone? It was kind of just like a rush of a thought.

• 15:05Rob Dial?

  And there's you've never shared it.

• 15:06Lewis Howes?

  Never shared it. Never shared it. And I had multiple girlfriends and I would kind of like hinted at things like, oh yeah, I've been through some challenges, but I was never able to fully. Ah, this happened to me. I was unable, I lacked courage, the emotional courage to speak about it. Cause I thought if anyone knew this about me, no one would love me or set me. So I was terrified about what would happen, the consequence if I shared my authentic truth of something I'm so ashamed of. And for whatever reason, I was just like, you know, if I don't say this now, I may never say this. I like this is the, if there's ever a moment to talk about this, this is the moment.

• 15:47Lewis Howes?

  And I stood up in front of this room. There's probably about forty or fifty people. I stood up and I just started speaking and I just told the whole story for the first time. About, you know, when I was five years old and how this happened. It was with an older man that I didn't know. It was the babysitter's son. He was probably in his late teens. And it was a story that kind of replayed in my mind, probably every day for 25 years, you know? It just replayed some, somehow, some way during the day, in a dream, it would just replay in my mind. And it was always kind of haunting me. It was like always kind of like running after me and I was running away from it.

• 16:31Lewis Howes?

  And the thing is, when we are constantly running away from our past, chasing something else to fulfill us, to make us feel good enough, based on the shame of our past that we're running away from, we're always gonna be running away and chasing something else to try to feel enough, feel good.

• 16:48Rob Dial?

  Right.

• 16:48Lewis Howes?

  And I just never felt good. I always felt anger, anger at certain moments. I felt defensive. I felt, um, you know, people were abandoning me or abusing me or all these different things based on this story and this, this moment and other moments that kind of validated it for me.

• 17:04Lewis Howes?

  And I finally said it and I remember just being so, like I, when I was talking about it, I couldn't look up at anyone in their eyes. Like I, I had to look down at the ground the whole time. While I was telling this story, because I was so ashamed. And I finally look up and started seeing people and everyone's like weeping, right? People are just like in tears. And I sit down, and I just start like erupting of emotions. I started to start crying. I'm bawling. There was two women on either side of me. They just start hugging me. They're crying and I'm just in kind of so much shame and emotions that I run out of the room. So I run out of the room and I leave. It's kind of in a conference ballroom, hotel room. And I run outside of the hotel and I go in the back of this,

• 17:47Lewis Howes?

  kind of like an alley behind the hotel and I'm just like sitting there against the wall crying. And I'm like, my life is over. I'm just like, my life is over. I'm not going back in that room. I can't face these people. Like people are now, now everyone knows who I really am and it's over. Like I might as well just call it quits.

• 18:09Lewis Howes?

  And I remember it was probably one of the most like beautiful moments of my life, um, is, I'm sitting there like this against the, the wall, just weeping. And I get a tap on my shoulder and I turn around. It's just like a giant of a man, who's like the same size as me, but just a big guy, probably 15 years older than me.

• 18:30Lewis Howes?

  He looks me in the eyes and he's tearing up and he's like,

• 18:36Lewis Howes?

  I will follow you anywhere. It's the first thing he said to me and I was just like, I'm, I'm just kinda like, what is going on? He's grabbing me. He's like, I will follow you anywhere. He's like, you have no idea what you just did, how that's gonna help me in the rest of my life. And I think he was in his late 40s and 50s. And he said, I've been married for 30 years. I've got three grown kids. My wife doesn't know. My kids don't know. No one knows. This happened to me when I was younger as well. And I've never had the courage to do what you did. And he was like, I will follow you anywhere. And I was just like, holy cow. I was like, what? I was just like, it's kind of, it was just overwhelming. It was beautiful, but I was scared.

• 19:17Lewis Howes?

  And then, one by one, it was kinda like, it was kinda like a scene out of a movie. I don't know if you ever saw Rudy. Remember when like Rudy wanted to play and he wasn't gonna play and then the last game, all the players come in like and give their jersey and they say, I want Rudy to have my spot. Right. It was like, all these men came out and just started hugging me. And they just started telling me their stories. You know, a few other guys had dealt with sexual abuse, but they, they all had some shame that they just started opening up about. It was the craziest moment. Like, I've never had a moment like this in my life. It felt like a scene out of a movie when it's happening. I was like, this is surreal.

• 19:57Lewis Howes?

  But it was also beautiful because these men were willing to open up and reveal their shame, that they didn't want any other men to know as well. And that brought us closer together. That allowed us to trust each other more. That allowed us to like, understand one another and drop our guards down with each other. So it was just a beautiful lesson and experience for me as a 30-year-old at that time, where I was like, oh, I can trust certain people. Maybe not everyone, like, there's gotta be the right context, like I said, to be able to have the conversation and open up. But we had created that in this kind of workshop experience where the context was set.

• 20:39Lewis Howes?

  And I wanted to feel free and I knew that I needed to try something. And this was the thing that started the path of freedom for me. It started the healing journey. And it's a, it's a journey, a consistent journey. And the more I spoke about it afterwards with friends and family. And then eventually I opened up on my podcast about a year later. And the more I did that, the more impact I realized I was able to have on everyone. And so it's just been a beautiful journey because the podcast gave me and I had this. I felt a nagging like I told my family, my friends. And I was like, man, I feel like maybe I should do it, talk about this openly.

• 21:24Lewis Howes?

  But if I do, I may lose everything. I was like, I might lose my business, like I might lose my audience. I mean, who knows? But I remember just this nagging feeling that I was like, if you can help one man heal and recover, it's worth losing everything.

• 21:41Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  And I was just like, it's worth it. If I can help one man feel free, it's worth losing everything for me.

• 21:50Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Lewis Howes?

  And I would have been like, this was a well-lived life. Like I lived a life of service to help one man. And I remember publishing this post where I talked about it. And it's still 11 years later, the most downloaded episode I've ever done.

• 22:06Rob Dial?

  Really?

• 22:07Lewis Howes?

  And I still get messages from people finding it from 10 years ago, talking about their experience and opening up about their sexual abuse experience for the first time to me. And it's always like, you know, I'm super grateful that they feel safe to talk about it with me. But usually when you open up about something you're struggled with, it gives permission for others to start opening up as well. They may not talk to you about it, but they might reflect on it. They might tell a therapist, they might tell their husband, their wife, their boyfriend or girlfriend. And that gives people permission to heal. So it's been a, the podcast has also just held me accountable for, for a lot.

• 22:47Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Lewis Howes?

  And it's, you know, you can't hide because people can tell if you're being inauthentic. So it's been a beautiful journey.

• 22:55Rob Dial?

  Wow. It's like a whole episode right there. I mean, that's, I thank you for sharing that because I didn't know the whole context of it, but that's the whole thing's incredible because I think a lot of times we think the things that we should, the things that it's kind of like the phrase shame breeds in the dark. Where it's like, when you bring it to light, it has no more power over you and in like your mess is your message and it did become this thing where you allow other people to heal, but it's so hard for us to be vulnerable, especially about the things that we have the most shame around. And so the thing that I like to said is that you said there has to be some context with it and your therapist kind of helped you with that. For anybody who's out there that that has gone through something that they want to share with other people, can you even kind of like the steps of what that would look like and how it helped you?

• 23:39Lewis Howes?

  The thing that she told me, because I was like, I'm really afraid. I was like, I opened up about this in this workshop.

• 23:46Lewis Howes?

  But I felt like it was a safe environment because we all went through stuff and we were all opening up about everything, right? So, and I may never see some of these people again, although I built great relationships with them, so it became different, but I was like, my friends and my family is very close. And what if they don't accept me? What if they don't love me? Then what? And she said, ask the question for each one of your family members before you tell them this and make sure you feel good about their response. When you ask them this question, and the question was, you know, first setting some context. So I called each one of them. I wasn't in the same city as in at that time. So I called each one of them, my family.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  And she said, set the context first and say, hey, listen, there's been some some reflections that I've been going through in my life. That I've been thinking about and some realizations I've been having. And I realized there's some things that I that I'm ashamed of that I want to tell you about. But I'm really nervous and I'm scared to talk about them. And I wanted to ask you a question first. Is there anything I could ever say or do that would make you not love me? So that's the question. Is there anything I could ever say or do that would make you not love me? And if you then wait for the response. And if a friend or a family member is kind of like joking or kind of like, well, I don't know, it depends.

• 25:13Lewis Howes?

  Then maybe you don't tell them right then. So make sure you set the context of what you've been experiencing and your feelings and where you're at. Ask them the question, is there anything you I could ever say or do that would make you not love me? And then see how you feel based on their response. And then, you know, if they say, no, there's nothing you could ever say or do that can make me not love you. Then they're opening up the door for you to talk about it. Now you have to have ultimate courage and share something you've never shared or share something you're afraid of. And depending on their emotional awareness or their emotional intelligence, they may not give you the response that you want. They may not know how to handle the response also. Like there's some deep, dark stuff that people go through.

• 25:57Lewis Howes?

  And their initial response may be, oh, I'm so sorry. Or they may not know. So you've got to be willing to sit with them also in their discomfort. And be okay with it and be want to sit in the mess of the conversation. But if you set up the context, if you ask the question, then they've given you permission to talk about it. Now you've got to accept the challenge and lean into that courage. And every time I did it with a family member, every time I did it with a friend, it was terrifying, but it gave me more and more freedom on the other side. And I think that allowed me to start healing my nervous system to feel more at peace, at least with those individuals.

• 26:41Lewis Howes?

  And I felt after like six months of kind of tiling my friends and family in the right time and moments.

• 26:49Lewis Howes?

  I felt like, okay, I feel a lot better, but I'm still worried about what my audience thinks about me. I'm still putting on a mask where I have an image in front of my community. And I just didn't feel right about that. So that's what made me say, gosh, I may lose everything. But if I can help one man heal, it's worth it because I still have my friends and family.

• 27:08Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Lewis Howes?

  So that's been the journey.

• 27:11Rob Dial?

  That's incredible, man. And so what was the, for, for people that are out there and they're afraid of that, what was the responses like? Like, how many, how many people did you, do you think you shared it? Like, what was, was it different than you thought it would be? Did you feel like, like more free after each conversation? Cause that's what people are afraid of is the response from someone else. And so.

• 27:28Lewis Howes?

  I think I felt more love than I'd ever had in my whole life.

• 27:31Rob Dial?

  Wow.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, with each interaction. And family had a different interaction. Like the thing with my family, my siblings had been through some, each had been through some dark stuff. Like just, yeah, we've, we've all been through some of our own dark stuff. My brother went to prison and had a lot of dark stuff that happened in jail for four and a half years. You know, my sisters went through their own different challenges. I don't want to go into too much because it's their story. But um, the thing that made it special is like, they opened up about stuff that I didn't know about, each one of them. I didn't ask them to. It gave them permission to be like, you know, there's something that's been on my mind actually. That I've been afraid of and ashamed to talk about to the family. And so they started opening up with me because I opened up with them.

• 28:17Lewis Howes?

  And that vulnerability between both of us brought us, brought us all closer together. And so it created a very special moment, a very special bond that I was like, wow. We would have never had this moment if, if at least I didn't start with vulnerability or you weren't willing to, to share in return.

• 28:33Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 28:34Lewis Howes?

  And I just felt more love and acceptance because of that vulnerability.

• 28:38Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  And that connection. You know, friends were a little different, but they were all very accepting. Some people opened up about certain stuff, but I wasn't, again, I wasn't asking them to.

• 28:49Rob Dial?

  Sure.

• 28:50Lewis Howes?

  I think the family, we'd just all been through stuff we were ashamed of. Or stuff that happened to us or things that we felt bad about that, that allowed us to clear, you know, clear a little bit, let things go. Confess whatever you want to call it, and that sets you free.

• 29:06Rob Dial?

  So crazy, man, because as you, as you decide to step vulnerably into something, which is probably the scariest thing, to be vulnerable for other people. And, and to be courageous, it's like you give permission for other people to also share the thing that they're most afraid of.

• 29:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:21Rob Dial?

  And so I think it's, it's interesting because even though you're sitting there and you're wondering like, will people still love me? Then you open up, they then open up and now you have an even tighter bond than you've ever had and felt love you've ever had in your life. Um, I'm curious with that, um, cause one thing I told you, I really wanna talk to you a little bit about is like just relationships in general. Cause there's been, since I've known you over the past few years, since the first episode we did, we spent a lot of time talking about relationships and stuff like that after the episode. And your life has changed immensely over the past three years in relationships.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Rob Dial?

  I'm curious, um, do you feel like after this happened, you started to change in relationships or, or is that just a completely different, um, journey for you?

• 30:01Lewis Howes?

  After.

• 30:02Rob Dial?

  Opening up.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  After opening up, yeah, everything started to shift in relationships after opening up. Now I still had three failed relationships. I'm a slow learner sometimes.

• 30:13Rob Dial?

  Not failures, you know, they built you to where you are now.

• 30:15Lewis Howes?

  Relationships that taught me a lot.

• 30:16Rob Dial?

  There you go.

• 30:17Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, that didn't work out, but it ended up working out.

• 30:20Rob Dial?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  Um, I still had a lot of fear around intimacy in relationships, although I started healing that element. And I started closing the loop around that. I really, I thought, oh, I'm good. I was like, oh, this is the thing I'm most afraid of. I'm good. And so I, I spent a number of years learning and constantly growing, but I still hadn't healed my nervous system around intimacy.

• 30:51Lewis Howes?

  And around boundaries and around people pleasing in love. So I started to, you know, let go of some of that old wound and trauma. I started to build more confidence in myself. I started to drop the walls of anger and resentment and things like this. But I still lacked the ability to, uh, to fully create boundaries in relationships. And my wound was, I was still,

• 31:21Lewis Howes?

  I was still making decisions out of desires, not out of.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  I guess.

• 31:31Lewis Howes?

  A dream of a healthy conscious relationship.

• 31:35Rob Dial?

  And by desires, what do you mean by that?

• 31:36Lewis Howes?

  Sexual desires.

• 31:37Rob Dial?

  Okay.

• 31:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so I was still allowing sexual chemistry to draw me in versus having courage of asking the right questions about the future. Are we in alignment of our values, our vision and our lifestyle? Does our dream life line up? On how we want to live our lives, how we want to interact in our lives, who we want in our lives, the lifestyle we want to create, our values, vision, everything. And most of those things never lined up. And so I was always. Connected through desire, not through consciousness. And then I would try to. I don't know if fix is the right word, but I'd try to heal the wounds of my child, my parents'

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  relationship in the partner that I was choosing.

• 32:25Rob Dial?

  How so?

• 32:28Lewis Howes?

  You know, I would pick partners, I would choose partners that had really poor relationships with their fathers. And who were kind of emotionally unavailable. Like. In the three relationships I was in, I always was the one that said, we should do therapy together. And the people that I chose, they never wanted to do it. And I always kept thinking to myself, how is this possible? Like, what woman would not love a man to say, let's go to therapy together? Like, that never happens. But somehow I chose the people that never wanted to go. They didn't want to face the certain things within themselves. And I'm not saying I was perfect, I was like, I want to go and take responsibility and learn and grow and develop. And I didn't feel the willingness from them. They eventually did, but it was kind of like kicking and screaming.

• 33:11Lewis Howes?

  It was like the reverse of like, the man kicks and screams for months until he finally has to go. And so almost each one of those relationships, they were about to end. And I was finally like, I can't do this anymore unless we do therapy. Like, it's not working. It's been a year, it's been a year and a half of just this fight and this struggle, it's not working. And I want to work on it, I want to make it work.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  They, at the moment, they weren't willing to face certain things and, or we just weren't the right match, right? So I'm not trying to blame them because I chose certain people. But they were unwilling to do the work. And for me, that should have been a sign from the beginning. If you weren't willing to be in a place of personal growth.

• 33:54Lewis Howes?

  There and I'm willing to do that, then we're just not in alignment. Doesn't mean you're wrong or bad. It's just like, okay, this is a value of mine, but it wasn't a value of theirs. So I should have known that early on, but I tried to stay. I tried to fix things. I tried to do whatever it took. I tried to change myself to make them happier, but they were never happy with me. No matter how much I changed for them, they still didn't accept and love me for who I was. And then I lost who I was to please them and they still weren't happy. So that was a pattern that I did because I was afraid of loving someone and them not loving me back for who I am. And then I forced it to try to help them grow and heal in some way. So it was just out of alignment everywhere.

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  And then I finally, in the previous relationship, I finally felt like I was able to heal in the relationship. Went to therapy together after about a year and a half of just every week, emotional up and down, struggle, fights, all this different stuff. Finally it was like, it's over unless we do therapy for a year. She didn't want to do it. Finally started going and just realizing like, wow, why have I stayed in this? And why have I stayed in every relationship for years after I knew something was off? And a lot of it came back from like childhood, you know, we talked about the patterns of childhood from, from the episode I did with you.

• 35:22Lewis Howes?

  And a lot of it came down to if I'm going to start something, I want to make sure like it works out. You know, I'm going to give my all. I'm going to give my best. I'm going to do whatever it takes, no matter what. A lot of the sports mindset as well was in there and it was just like, as opposed to, well, I never chose the right path in the first place. So I was choosing something that wasn't in alignment and trying to make it work and doing whatever it took to make it work. But it just wasn't the right alignment. So I need to choose alignment first and then be willing to work and improve and grow and it's going to expand it even more. So with Martha, my fiance, we did that from the beginning. I did everything completely opposite with her, things that I've never, ever done before. And um.

• 36:09Lewis Howes?

  And I was just like, I don't, and I was also just like, if this doesn't work out, it's okay. You know? At least you know now. If we're not in alignment, it's okay. If you want something else in your life, cool, then we can be friends. As opposed to, well, we have this chemistry, so we should try to make this work. I really allowed it to flow differently and I was almost kind of like, hey, this is a hundred percent who I am. This is my mission. This is what I'm up to. This is what I'm doing. And if we're gonna date, you need to know this is who I am and I'm not going to change to make you happy. I'm going to improve and grow as a human for myself. But I'm not going to change to make you happy or to please you with something. If you're not happy with who I am, we shouldn't be together.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  And so for months, we dated. And I told her before we started, you know, before I like asked her if we can be together, committed, exclusive. For months, we were dating.

• 37:06Lewis Howes?

  And I said to her, okay, there's, there's a couple of things that I want to create. If we're gonna start this relationship and be exclusively committed to one another.

• 37:19Lewis Howes?

  My commitment I'm gonna make, number one, I'm going to commit to you that I'll never get angry at you. I'll never explode. I'll never yell at you. I'll never scream at you. Um, I'm never gonna get angry for who you are. And is this different than past relationships? Yeah, I mean, I wasn't like, no, I wasn't really explosive or angry. I was never that. The other partners I chose were, which was a pattern. Yeah. Um, but I would change to try to meet, to try to keep the peace. Right, right. So they were a lot more like this. And so I would be like, what do you need? How can I, what's wrong? Okay, I won't do this anymore. So I just said, I'm creating a boundary. I'm not gonna change who I am to make you happy. You're either a happy person or you're not with me. And if you're not happy with me, don't be with me.

• 38:03Lewis Howes?

  If you can't accept who I am, then we shouldn't be together. And so that's why I said, I will never get angry at you. You know, I've been frustrated in moments, but I'm not getting angry or exploding or anything like that. And I said, I'm never going to try to change you. Like, I've been asking you so many questions for the last few months. We've gone on experiences, we've traveled, I've met your family, we've done all these different things. I've gotten to know a lot of your personality. I've seen you in different settings. Obviously, you're going to continue to get to know someone forever, but I've gotten to see a majority of your personality in your way of being over a long period of time. And I said, if this is who you are, then I'm choosing to accept and love you for who you are.

• 38:46Lewis Howes?

  And if these are your dreams that you're telling me now, although some might change and evolve, but I've known her past, like she's an actor. She's done movies for the last 20 years. She's, you know, had done kissing scenes with guys on set. And so I said to myself, would I be okay with her continuing to act in this way if this is who she wants to be? And I had to choose to say, yes, like, okay, if this is who she is, I can't choose her and tell her to change to make me happy. Right. I need to accept who she is and be with her, or accept her who she is and not be with her. Either way, if I'm trying to change her, she's not going to be happy and I'm not going to be happy. And so I said, I will never get upset with you.

• 39:28Lewis Howes?

  If you talk to her now, you can ask her, I've never been upset with her in almost three years. Uh, it doesn't mean we've had disagreements, we have, but I haven't been like lashed out at her, I told her, you need to change or anything like that. That was the first thing that I said, I'll never get upset at you in this way. I may not agree with you, but I'm never going to upset you. The second thing was,

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  you have to fully accept and love me for who I am. You can't get upset at me. And otherwise, this isn't going to work because we're going to be in fights and conflict. And I'm not going to feel like I'm enough for you, you're going to feel like you need to change, we're just going to be unhappy people. I've seen this play out many times.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  So we both had to be in acceptance of each other. The next thing was, because I, you know, just like you, I speak, I travel, I have an audience, there's people around me and previous relationships that made people, partners, insecure or jealous or questioning or where are you or who's hitting on you, like you've got to accept me. This is a lifestyle that I have.

• 40:31Lewis Howes?

  The second thing was, we needed to start the relationship in therapy. Cause every relationship that I had before ended in therapy. And then it ended poorly. And I said, I don't want that this time. I want to start in therapy to know that we're both have a coach or a therapist individually. Which she already had, and we're both working together in the relationship from the start. She was like, I think that's a great idea. I think most people might get afraid of that. Early on, why should we do this early on? Everything's great. Something wrong with us if we go to therapy. Exactly. And there was nothing wrong, right? It was like, we had an amazing dating experience starting out. But I said, I want to know and have a better feeling.

• 41:13Lewis Howes?

  Within the first year of dating that we are in alignment with our values, our vision and lifestyle. Because typically when you get into a relationship. Chemicals take over. You, you know, love is more blind. You, you don't ask the questions about the real deep intimate stuff. And you allow the chemical desires to keep you bonded physically. Right. And it just feels so good. Right. Just like, ah, it feels amazing. And you don't want to see, oh, he's doing that, or oh, she's doing this weird, or that's a red flag. You kind of let those things go to the side. Once you start bonding chemically. And so I said, I want to start in therapy so we can talk about everything. Talk about all the subjects. Talk about our values, our vision, our lifestyle, the future.

• 41:57Lewis Howes?

  Agreements, boundaries, roles, responsibilities, everything. And most people would say, man, that seems like a lot of work. Early on. And it seems like, ah, it's kind of, it's kind of heavy. But I was just like, you know what's heavy is going through years of relationships that don't work. Spending time, energy, hours, sleepless nights. Dealing with emotional turmoil from someone who wants you to change who you are. Yeah. Someone screaming at you constantly. That is heavy. That's way heavier. And it's, I'd rather go through the first six to 12 months of getting clarity. And doing the deep work early on. And having years of peace and freedom on the other side of it. Then three to six months of pleasure.

• 42:42Lewis Howes?

  And then years of pain on the back end, because you never had those conversations. So for me. Her willingness to say, yes, I want to continue to grow on my own, separate of you. And yes, I want us to grow together as a partnership. Working together was an incredible decision that we made together early on.

• 43:03Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 43:04Lewis Howes?

  And I highly recommend it for, for anyone starting a relationship. I just think, you know, the, the stats are undeniable. Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce. Probably seventy percent of people that stay married are unhappy, who don't get divorced. People are cheating on each other all the time. They're lying to each other. Just because they stay together for a long time, doesn't mean it's a successful marriage or relationship. There's not peace. There's not freedom to express your true authentic self.

• 43:32Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 43:33Lewis Howes?

  And that's not the life I want to live anymore. I lived that for 20 years in relationships. And I felt like a prisoner to people pleasing, the people I was with, to try to keep the peace and make them happy versus both of us being able to express who we are and be our higher selves in the relationship.

• 43:49Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 43:50Lewis Howes?

  And for the first time, I feel that in this relationship and it's the greatest gift I've ever had.

• 43:55Rob Dial?

  Yeah, you're, and I, I mentioned this to you when I saw you last time, is you actually just feel different to be around. Like you feel like your energy is way lighter, you know, and I think it's, is a lot of us, what we do is we think, all right, well, yeah, like it's happening at home. But I can put on a face and I can go out and do my work and do what's supposed to be done. And I think that we don't understand that people are always feeling our energy in some sort. So if you just had a fight and now you gotta go on stage or you've gotta go and talk with someone, they're feeling something's a little bit off in your, your nervous system. They might not have any idea what it is, but they feel in their nervous system, something's a little bit different.

• 44:33Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 44:34Rob Dial?

  And I told you when I was at your event up in, in Columbus where I was like, I mean, like you just feel different to be around. Like it, it seemed like it was, it was, there was, it was taking a lot from you, the previous relationships were. And it's awesome to see because you guys just got engaged, right? A couple of days right after that.

• 44:48Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 44:48Rob Dial?

  And so I'm curious.

• 44:51Rob Dial?

  I have a question for you. I'm curious on, because I know my answer with my relationship with Lauren, my wife, but it feels like a lot of people talk about relationships have to be hard. They have to be worked. They have to be strenuous. I'm curious your thoughts on that and if you think that it's true or if you're finding that it's it's false with the one that you have.

• 45:08Lewis Howes?

  Well, I feel like all of my relationships were before were hard work and they were exhausting.

• 45:14Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 45:15Lewis Howes?

  Now, there were moments in the first three months that were fun and interesting and exciting, but then it started to get more tiring and exhausting. And it was always like, how do we get back to that beginning few months of fun and excitement? Like, how do we get back to that? We never did.

• 45:28Rob Dial?

  Right.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  Um, you know, and here's the thing, I'm not a parent. So I know there's going to be a lot of parents in the comments right now that say, well, wait till you have kids and wait till this and wait till life happens in a bigger ways and wait till you've got to take care of your parents and wait till you got death happens and all these things, then your relationship is tested, right? So I understand and have compassion for that because I don't have kids, but I, you know, had a father who was, you know, essentially had a, in a coma for many months from a brain, a brain, a car accident that I was in that had a traumatic brain injury. For 17 years, he was not the man that he once was, and he had to be taken care of 24/7. So I was in relationships where, you know, this was happening to my father.

• 46:13Lewis Howes?

  I wasn't his primary caretaker, but I experienced that. I don't have kids and I know dynamics shift and change when you have kids. I know that. And I know some people don't have the luxury of maybe getting a babysitter or having support or having parents around to support them. And there might be more pressure and wait to take care of those kids. So I get that too. But I think if you set the foundation of your relationship before having kids about roles and responsibilities, about guidelines and boundaries, about agreements, then I feel like it should be extremely peaceful. Based on these last three years with Martha, almost three years, two and a half years.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  Because we did the uncomfortable work upfront by going to joint counseling and addressing any little fears or concerns that we might have. And there were some uncomfortable sessions where each one of us had to face insecurities and fears or doubts from our past and address them and face them. We couldn't keep running from them. We had to turn around and face them.

• 47:20Lewis Howes?

  Because we leaned in that uncomfortable conversations early on and we created agreements with one another. It gave us clarity. That clarity has given us freedom. It's given us peace. I have peace. You know, if this was, you know, three years ago, seven years ago, 10 years ago, and the relationships I was in. I'd feel anxious being like, I gotta check in. I gotta tell them what I'm doing. Or they're gonna be calling me saying, who you with? Who's at the house right now? What's going on? Why aren't you checking in with me? Like, that was kind of my history. Yeah. And yeah, I don't have to do that because we have agreements. We've had these conversations upfront about, this is my lifestyle. This is how I work. This is what I need. This is what I'm willing to do. This is what I'm not willing to do.

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  Do you accept that? Do you need something else from me? And getting clarity on both sides so we're in alignment. Yeah. And that has set us free. And I'm sure there's going to be new agreements and commitments we'll need to make when we get married, right? We're engaged now. So there'll be new agreements. When we have kids, there'll be different agreements. There's gonna be different things to agree to at different seasons of life. Yeah. But because we both say we are independently growing and have coaching and counseling independently on our own to deal with our own stuff. So we don't have to dump everything on each other and have the responsibility of another person making us happy. We are responsible for our own happiness individually. We each have a mission and a purpose in life that we're pursuing.

• 48:50Lewis Howes?

  And we each have friends and communities that we can lean on as well. And we have counseling together. So there's like multiple layers of support for each one of us to overcome and navigate challenges, which doesn't put all the burden on me to have to fix something or rescue or like, be this perfect conscious person to listen nonstop to whatever challenge someone might be having. And I know she can handle her own emotions.

• 49:19Lewis Howes?

  She's able to deal and navigate with them. And yes, because she does that, I want to be there to support her even more when she's in those challenging moments in her life.

• 49:31Lewis Howes?

  So that has been, that has given me a lot of peace, knowing that she's fully committed to her own happiness. And to her own coaching, and she's committed to the relationship coaching as well.

• 49:42Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 49:43Lewis Howes?

  And it's just incredible peace when both partners are willing to grow together and separately.

• 49:48Rob Dial?

  Yeah, man, I think that's, that's real important. As you're speaking, you're talking about how you started early. I shared on, we, right before this episode, we recorded an episode for your podcast, The School of Greatness. And I was talking about how I had a friend who I had met through a poker tournament. Sat next to me and he was a relationship therapist and we started connecting and stuff. He's like, hey, it'd be great for you and your girlfriend to come in. And it was like two years into our relationship and there was nothing wrong, right? There wasn't, it wasn't like we were trying to fix something, but we went in and we spoke with him and we learned about like how I am. He had said something to me that was really eye opening, that I'd never thought of before. And I was, I was, I was talking to him about, you know, my relationship with my father and where my father was. And he goes, yeah, you were neglected as a child.

• 50:32Rob Dial?

  And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Like I wasn't neglected. Like, cause in my mind, I'm thinking like food, water, shelter, clothing, right?

• 50:37Lewis Howes?

  Emotionally, you were neglected.

• 50:39Rob Dial?

  Exactly. He said, he said, you were emotionally neglected. And I was like, oh God, that feels true. Like I felt it. And I was like, oh yeah, there was emotional neglect there. And so he reflected to me something I never knew, but I started learning like how Lauren's love style was, how my love style was. And I left that first session and we had gone a couple of times to him after that. Feeling like number one, I understood myself more than I ever had, but I also understood more, her more than I ever had. But I felt like she understood me more than she ever had. And I think that that's important where it's like, a lot of times I have a friend who's, who really wants to go to therapy with his, with his parents. And they just don't, his dad's hardcore resisting it. Cause in his dad's mind, he thinks that that means he failed, like he did something wrong.

• 51:22Rob Dial?

  And in reality, it doesn't have to be that way. Just because you go to therapy doesn't mean there's something wrong. It just means, hey, I kind of want to mirror. I want to have someone tell me something about myself that I might not know about. Like I, I'd been in, at that point in time, personal vomit for like 12 years and I had no idea I was emotionally neglected. And then I started realizing that about myself. And so I think it's really important for everyone out there. It's a, to think about this, like if you can do it, if you can afford it in some sort of way. It would be really good for you to go and talk with someone on your own, but also talk with someone who is. If, if you're in a relationship with someone where you could start to understand each other a little bit better.

• 51:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And to go back to the question of, you know, do relationships need to be hard? I think relationships are extremely hard if you're unwilling to have courageous conversations. And they are going to be hard and they're going to be exhausting because you're going to expect someone else to understand you when you're not communicating with courage to them about your needs. Your wants and desires.

• 52:16Rob Dial?

  For sure.

• 52:16Lewis Howes?

  You're expecting them to just get it, to understand you, to just know what you want as opposed to saying. Actually, I'm feeling a little scared here, a little, I've got some stuff I'm still working on. I want to talk through with you. And most of us are unwilling to have the courage to open up. And therefore we're resentful, we're angry, we're frustrated, we're insecure, we're needy, all these different things. And so it feels hard and complicated. But if you're willing to start opening up courageously. And make sure the other person is willing to receive that. If they're not, they may not be the right match for you. You may just be out of alignment. If one person's willing to be courageous and the other is afraid. Do you want that as a partner?

• 52:58Lewis Howes?

  And I think that's hard because a lot of people get chemically bonded early. And they think about the dream life of this person, the fantasy of this person in the future. They like me and I have this chemical feeling when I'm around them or when I think about them. And they don't want to lose that feeling of chemicals. And that's where you get trapped. That's where you get in a really scary place of. Staying in a relationship for too long, making excuses for the person who is treating you poorly, or not giving you what you need based on what you've requested, or who's doing things out of alignment with your values, your vision, and your lifestyle. And then you keep abandoning yourself and what you truly want for the hope that one person continues to give you this chemical feeling.

• 53:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And that's why, early on, I was just like, I'm blocking all the chemical connection. I'm not going there. Yeah. Sure, I felt attracted, but I was not willing to go there chemically for months. And I said, I just want to get to know your personality. And I'd never done that before. And I want to get to know your values, your vision, your lifestyle. I want to see around your friends. I want to see around your family. And I think people are so, myself included in the past, are so willing to give of themselves chemically and sexually without actually knowing who the person is. And then they're bonded for a long time. Yeah. You're bonded, you're connected, and you want that rush, you want that feeling. It's an addiction.

• 54:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. And that makes you blind. Yeah. And so, you gotta do things differently if you want peace and harmony in a relationship. And that may mean you're dating someone for a while, and after three to six months, you realize, man, we're not in alignment. Like, we don't want the same things in the future. We don't have the same values, vision, or lifestyle. They want to have kids, I don't want to have kids. They don't want to be married, I want to be married. They, I can't deal with, I can't accept them for who they are. Mm-hmm. And if you can't accept the person for who they are right now, you shouldn't be with them. Yeah. And I was like, that's why I said that there's really two main conditions. One, I'm going to accept you for who you are, and I need you to accept me for who I am. That's number one. Otherwise, this won't work. Because I'm not changing for you.

• 55:10Lewis Howes?

  I'm going to evolve, I'm going to grow for me, and you've got to accept who I am. Yeah. And I'm going to fully accept who you are. Where most guys would be like, okay, you're never doing a kissing scene again. You're never doing this with this actor. You can't do this. You can't do this. Now you're gonna stop acting and just be a stay at home mom because it makes me feel safe. I said, no, you're gonna do you and I'm gonna trust you to make good decisions that are good for you.

• 55:32Rob Dial?

  And she's not, she's been gone for a month because she's shooting in a different country right now.

• 55:35Lewis Howes?

  And she's doing kissing scenes. She's doing sex scenes.

• 55:38Rob Dial?

  She's doing kissing scenes in another country for a month without you and so.

• 55:42Lewis Howes?

  And I feel at peace.

• 55:43Rob Dial?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, so in another relationship, would that have just driven you crazy?

• 55:46Lewis Howes?

  I think 10 years ago, I wasn't as emotionally involved. And I think I would have been angry that this person is choosing to do something that would hurt me.

• 55:55Rob Dial?

  Oh, yeah. It's all about us. We're always thinking about ourselves.

• 55:58Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. I'd have been like, how could they do this to me? Why are they not thoughtful about me? What do they, how, what do they mean? Why are they gonna do a kissing scene in the movie? Can't they just not do this movie? I would make all these things up and say, why are you doing this? And who is this guy? And let me talk to this guy. You know, I would have to do all these things. And I, I put myself in scenarios weeks before we got like committed. I said, okay, can I fully accept who she is? I'd seen some of her previous movies where she'd done kissing scenes. But I also understand, like when you're on a set, there's 50 people watching. It's not intimate at all.

• 56:31Rob Dial?

  Can't be that romantic.

• 56:31Lewis Howes?

  No, it's not. But you, you know, you have to let your ego down. You have to like, let your ego die and say, okay, this is who she is. So is this the type of person I want to be with? Am I able to accept her and love her for the choices she makes? And be happy for her and her choices? Or am I so insecure that I need her to change to make me feel safer?

• 56:54Rob Dial?

  Right.

• 56:55Lewis Howes?

  And I made that decision. And it's funny, when you make those decisions, the universe or God tests you and says, okay, you said you could do this, so we're gonna put some extreme cases in front of you, right? Quickly afterwards and make sure you really say you're gonna do what you're gonna do. And um, yeah, I've been super calm and peaceful and it's just been like, okay, you know, uh, maybe I don't want to watch these scenes, but you know, I accept you and that's, you're making great art. I'm just looking at it as you're making great art. That's, that's cool.

• 57:24Lewis Howes?

  I've chosen to accept her, otherwise I shouldn't be with her.

• 57:26Rob Dial?

  Right. That's interesting. And I think that the main part that that is really like coming to light is the communication side of it. Whenever I hear people that have trouble in their relationships, usually there's some breakdown in communication. Someone's not saying something or they're both, both of them are not saying something. And it's actually interesting because I learned something from a, um, a coach of mine years ago, which is similar to actually what your therapist had told you when you were talking about the sexual experiences. Is how to actually go and have a really tough conversation.

• 57:55Lewis Howes?

  It's hard, man.

• 57:56Rob Dial?

  It's super hard. And, and what makes it easier though, that I have found. You know, there's times when we've all been in a situation where like, you know what, I'm going to tell this person about this thing. And then we say it and the person gets triggered, they blow up on us. And now we're like, I can't, I'm not safe to, to say this to them. Because our walls immediately go up. And, uh, the, the tactic, I guess the, you could call it a tactic if you want, that he taught me is to disarm them. And the way to disarm somebody is to go to them and tell them how you feel. And, and before you do anything else. So it's like, hey, Louis, like there's something that I want to say to you. If I'm being fully transparent, I'm terrified to sit, to share this with you because it's like really on my heart and I'm not sure how you're going to accept it.

• 58:39Rob Dial?

  And so I started doing this with my wife and I was like, hey, like, cause, cause the way that I always thought that the pattern that I always had is that if she got mad, she was going to leave. And so the first, my brain would always go to like, there's something I did wrong. She's probably going to leave me. She's probably going to leave me. She's probably going to leave me. And I would always, and even though it never happened, luckily, you know, it will always kept popping up in my head. And so what happened was as things would happen, I would say, hey, listen, Lauren, can I talk to you? Like after, and there's no, we're not in a moment where things are heated, anything like that. And, uh, we're sitting, it's just a normal day. And I'm like, can I share something with you that's like been on my mind? And if I'm being honest, I'm terrified to say it.

• 59:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's good.

• 59:15Rob Dial?

  And when you do that, usually they're like, oh my God, yes, I would love. And so the, the walls don't go up. It's like, I'm inviting you in. And then allowed to communicate with, with that person. Now, I think that's important because you can then usually communicate vulnerably. That person's reaction, we can't really, we can't, we can't control anybody else's reaction.

• 59:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 59:34Rob Dial?

  But like you're saying is, I've shared it with you. I've gotten off my chest. Your reaction is in a way going to show me how open you are to making some shifts in this relationship.

• 59:44Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 59:44Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 59:45Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And also if someone.

• 59:49Lewis Howes?

  If someone can't accept you for you being vulnerable and courageous and opening up about who you are and they are gonna leave you, let them leave you. They're not aligned with you.

• 59:58Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 59:59Lewis Howes?

  And the challenge is, we get too chemically bonded and too invested in this person that we're afraid for someone to leave us. But if they're not right for you, they should leave you. You should leave them. If they can't receive your emotions, receive a vulnerable conversation from you, is that the type of relationship you want to have for the rest of your life? Where you're walking on ashes? Probably not. And people are too afraid to be left, or that they've invested too much time, that the person's, you know, they've wasted all these years. But if you're not alignment, you can try to communicate to get in alignment and go to counseling and therapy, but eventually, if it's not working, why make it this hard thing? To go back to your question, should relationships be hard work? I think they should be conscious conversations

• 1:00:44Lewis Howes?

  continuously.

• 1:00:45Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:46Lewis Howes?

  Maybe that's hard to do at the beginning, but over time, that should bring you closer together and make things easier.

• 1:00:51Rob Dial?

  Right.

• 1:00:52Lewis Howes?

  Because you're having conscious conversations about roles and responsibilities, about agreements and boundaries, and about acceptance of who each individual is. And when you can get clear on all those things, along with your values, your vision and your lifestyle, and be in agreement on these things and accept them, then everything else is a lot easier. And you just look at each other and you say, wow, what a beautiful life we have.

• 1:01:17Rob Dial?

  Right.

• 1:01:17Lewis Howes?

  And that's what we do in our relationships. We just look at each other and say, what a beautiful life we have.

• 1:01:22Rob Dial?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  But it's because we're willing to have the conscious conversations. Some people might call that hard work. It's uncomfortable at times, but man, to have, you know, a few months of conscious conversations for a lifetime of peace and gratitude, it's worth it.

• 1:01:38Rob Dial?

  Yeah, for sure. Well, I'm curious to you, man, like, what, I've known you for a while, and you've gone on this journey, you've gone through, you know, the, the sharing of the sexual abuse, the things that have happened in relationships. It's 2024, like, what is, what is Lewis Howes's, um, at 40 years old, mountain that he's climbing or thing that he's working on, where he's like, this is a thing that I want to work on with myself in my life. Where are you at right now?

• 1:02:05Lewis Howes?

  I think it's, I mean, it's, there's three things that came to mind. The first two are, you know, stepping into preparing myself for marriage and then stepping into preparing myself to be a father. I think those are two big milestones that I've never experienced. So what does that preparation look like? I'm working with my, you know, my coach and my therapist and walking through any type of like fears or uncertainties or like, what do I need to keep communicating or addressing to make sure that I'm saying everything I need to say. It's just kind of walking through a reflection of stepping into the greatest version of me that is married, the greatest version of me that is a father and bringing him closer to me now. Like, how can I draw

• 1:02:48Lewis Howes?

  him closer to me now? And what is in between me now and where I want to be? And any fear, insecurity, or doubts that I might have around anything and being willing to have courageous conversations. It all goes back to courageous or conscious conversations to bring it to the light, to address it, to, you know, feel anything out. And so stepping into that.

• 1:03:12Lewis Howes?

  So that's one process that I'm on right now. And another one that I have with my therapist and coach is,

• 1:03:20Lewis Howes?

  you know, individuals like me and you who have big platforms and big communities and audiences have bigger demands and responsibilities, right? We've got to show up in different ways. We've got to lead in different ways, which is not ways I was when I was 10, 15, 20, 25, 30. Like, I've had to continually step up and evolve. And so one of the questions I ask my coach often in the last six months is, what are the men who are in their 50s and 60s and 70s struggle with the most that she coaches? Because she works with a lot of high-profile leaders, big CEOs, billionaires, you know? You want to be able to navigate them now. And so I'm saying, what are the biggest challenges that 50-year-old men, 60, 70-year-old men who make it?

• 1:04:06Lewis Howes?

  Deal with and a lot of it comes back to their ego. You know, it's a lot of comes back to their ego of. You know, younger women come into the picture or they've neglected their marriages or whatever it is. And that gets them, you know, their ego eventually gets them if they're not constantly working on it. And I think I'm trying to prepare myself now. To eliminate that stuff in the future, you know, to prepare myself and to be as ready as possible. Um, knowing that I'm never gonna be some perfect human being, but how can I make sure that I'm. Dealing with or navigating things now so they don't catch up to me later. And part of that is also like, okay, I've chosen.

• 1:04:48Lewis Howes?

  This year for 11 years, I've kind of made everything about others on my show. I've interviewed everyone else. I've very done very little solo stuff. I've written three books, but a lot of the books are about like examples from other people and then some of my stuff. But it's never like I'm the expert, here's all my wisdom and look at me all day. I've never wanted to be that guy and it's not who I want to be necessarily. But I also know in order for me to take my. Audience, my business, my brand, the next level that I'm going to need to step in front more and share more of my thoughts. So this year I'm going to be creating more individual content, more solo stuff, more. You know, social media content of just me teaching, educating, inspiring and entertaining.

• 1:05:33Lewis Howes?

  And with that, I believe it will expand my impacts and draw people back in more. But it also leaves you open for people criticizing you more and people judging you more and people saying, oh, you know, and. Okay, just preparing myself for abundance and expansion. And making sure that my ego doesn't get the best of me as it grows abundantly. The audience, the community, the wealth, all these different things. And so it's just preparing for all that and just knowing I'm stepping into this level of leadership in a different way and making sure that I'm in alignment with myself and my soul so that I don't, you know, get into things that I shouldn't be getting into. That's what I'm preparing for.

• 1:06:18Rob Dial?

  Yeah. I'm gonna ask you the same question you asked me in your episode, because I thought it was so good and it's a perfect transition.

• 1:06:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:25Rob Dial?

  Because you had already asked me the, uh, the final episode, final, uh, questions that you do at the end of episodes and the last time I was on your show, uh, which everyone should go back and listen to both of them. Um, with this last one, he asked me a question which just like

• 1:06:38Lewis Howes?

  Made you think.

• 1:06:39Rob Dial?

  I mean, maybe I, I was silent for a while, right? And so, um, so the question was though, and I think it works perfectly when you're talking about your coach and your therapist talking 50, 60 years old. Let's say that, that 50 year old Louis walks down these stairs, sees us, he's got everything he's ever wanted. He's got this amazing relationship, amazing children, he's a great father. What do you think that he would say to you right now to help you on the path and to get there sooner?

• 1:07:09Lewis Howes?

  I think he'd be really excited for me and, um, he would say, I'm, he would say, I'm so grateful that you decided to commit to cautiously growing so consistently. Because look at this beautiful life we've created together.

• 1:07:23Rob Dial?

  And what do you, what do you think would be some of the steps to have, uh, gotten you to where he is compared to where you are now?

• 1:07:31Lewis Howes?

  It's the consistency of working on myself, like, you know, making sure I show up every month for coaching, therapy, making sure that I'm, yeah, I, working on the things that I know I need to get better at, which is patience and allowing to trust other people to like handle things, uh, to allow myself to feel more peace and freedom in my, my, my business or my life. But I think he would say,

• 1:08:00Lewis Howes?

  He would say a number of things. One, look at this beautiful family you've developed because you healed your heart. And you continue to be on a healing journey, like you committed to it. And look what we've created because you committed to healing.

• 1:08:17Lewis Howes?

  You know, thank you. He would say, he would say. He would say, thank you for continuing to make your life about serving other human beings. And using your story to be in the service of others. And so. He wouldn't give me the advice to do that because he would say, thank you for being consistent in that. He would say, thank you for choosing health every single day. Because at 50, we're still jumping around, dunking, we're running, we're fricking lifting heavy weights and you're. He would say, I'm so grateful for you for making.

• 1:08:57Lewis Howes?

  You making decisions to be committed daily to health and prevention and mobility and strength. Because look what we're able to do at 50 with our kids. Thank you for taking care of your health. And um. The, the thing that he would say, which is the lesson I've been getting this last month. Is.

• 1:09:21Lewis Howes?

  The only way for you to grow into where you need to be is to creating the right partnerships with people and not doing it all on your own anymore. For the last 11 years, I felt like I've done it all on my own. And so it's still another evolution of healing in that area of business around.

• 1:09:40Lewis Howes?

  You know, expanding with the right partners, team to allow me to expand as opposed to me doing it all on my own. So that's what he'd be saying to me to keep evolving, but I've been. Listening to that version of me already and I've been stepping into it slowly. So. That's what's going to allow the impact to expand through the right aligned partnerships.

• 1:10:01Rob Dial?

  It's awesome.

• 1:10:01Lewis Howes?

  That's why you're part of the network, baby. Let's go, you know, greatness network.

• 1:10:04Rob Dial?

  How do, uh, how do people find you, Lewis?

• 1:10:06Lewis Howes?

  School of Greatness. Podcast, yeah. And Lewis Howes anywhere on social media.

• 1:10:12Rob Dial?

  Yeah, appreciate you, man. Excited for this.

• 1:10:14Lewis Howes?

  We had a great conversation on ours, so they can listen to ours on our show and. Um, check it out.

• 1:10:19Rob Dial?

  Some really good questions. So, uh, yeah, go to School of Greatness if you want to listen to that episode and appreciate you, man.

• 1:10:24Lewis Howes?

  My man. Thanks, brother. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter

• 1:11:09Lewis Howes?

  and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.