How To Prepare For The Inevitable Future With Artificial Intelligence w/ Mo Gawdat EP 1168

Today’s guest is Mo Gawdat. He is the former Chief Business Officer of Google X; and author of the international bestselling book Solve for Happy. After a long career in tech, Mo has made happiness his primary topic of research, diving deeply into literature and conversing on the topic with some of the wisest people in the world. In 2019, Mo co-founded T0day, an ambitious project that aims to reinvent consumerism for the benefit of consumers, retailers and our planet. He’s written a new book called Scary Smart: The Future of Artificial Intelligence and How You Can Save Our World. In this episode we discuss what Artificial Intelligence is, the positive ways AI will affect our future, the truth about what we need to be aware of with AI, how to prepare for the inevitable future where AI plays a bigger role in society, and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1168Check out Mo's website: https://www.mogawdat.com/The Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1168 with Mo Gawdat.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:27Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone. My guest today is Mo Gawdat. And he is the former chief business officer of Google X and author of the international bestselling book, Solve for Happy. And after a long career in tech, Mo has made happiness his primary topic of research, diving deep into the literature and conversing on the topic with some of the wisest people in the world. And he's recently written a new book called Scary Smart: The Future of Artificial Intelligence and How You Can Save Our World. And in this episode, we dive deep into what artificial intelligence is and what it's going to be, the positive ways AI will affect our future, the truth about what we need to be aware of with AI,

• 1:08Lewis Howes?

  how to prepare for the inevitable future where AI plays a bigger role in society, and so much more. If you're inspired by this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired to hear this as well. And if this is your first time here, click the subscribe button right now over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or anywhere you listen to podcasts and leave us a review at some point during this episode to let us know what part you enjoy the most. And the fan of the week who left a review is from CJ who said, Lewis is a very real and honest interviewer. He doesn't interject himself constantly, although I know I do too much sometimes, but allows guests to tell their stories and share their knowledge. And the guests are wide ranging and bring a ton of value from finance to wellness to relationships and beyond.

• 1:49Lewis Howes?

  Grateful for the time he has put in here. Big thank you CJ for leaving your review, for being a subscriber and being the fan of the week. And I cannot wait for you guys to check out this episode. I hope you enjoy it. And in just a moment, the one and only Mo Gawdat.

• 2:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got my friend Mokadat in the house. Good to see you, sir.

• 2:13Mo Gawdat?

  Amazing to see you again.

• 2:14Lewis Howes?

  Great to see you. One of the smartest guys I know.

• 2:17Mo Gawdat?

  One of the fittest and most amazing people. Every time I see him, I know how old I am.

• 2:21Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, man. I'm excited about this new book you have, Scary Smart: The Future of Artificial Intelligence and How You Can Save Our World. You've got some predictions that artificial intelligence is real, it's happening, it's coming, and it's very scary at one point. There's a lot to be worried about, but also there's some potential for utopia as well, right? There's potential for how artificial intelligence can really set us up for a happier, more fulfilling life, but you're saying that there's also some scary things that could happen or that probably will happen first until we get to that place. So should we start with the happy part or the scary part first?

• 3:05Mo Gawdat?

  No, I normally start with the scary part. You know, most of the people that read Scary Smart so far, you know, early readers, would come around chapter five and either text and call me and say, "Should we kill ourselves now? Should we bring kids into this world at all?" And it is, it really is scary, but it's all true sadly. I would probably say that the best place to ever hide anything is just in plain sight, right? And the real pandemic, the real pandemic is AI. AI is all around you. It's all around you. It's everywhere.

• 3:39Lewis Howes?

  Explain what is AI for people? Is it just robots? Is it something else? What is it?

• 3:44Mo Gawdat?

  Not at all. As a matter of fact, so the image we see of AI is a humanoid, okay? That's what the movies normally make AI look like, but it isn't at all. I mean, today, actually, just as we speak, you know, yesterday Elon Musk, you know, spoke about the Tesla bot, and the Tesla bot appears to be a person that can move and walk and so on. The truth is, it's the software behind a Tesla bot that is really where the Intelligence resides. It's all about. Right. You know, if you've seen the movie I, Robot, it's not the robot. It's not the physical design.

• 4:23Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, it is the software behind it. It's Vicky. It's that head that thinks in the background. It's the, it's the, uh, you know, it's, don't call it software anymore. But, but it's intelligence. It's not a machine. And I think this is what, one of the things that most people miss about AI. Is that we think of it as just another evolution of our technology, another wave of machinery that is gonna be our slaves. And you know, just like a hammer, you tell it to, to hit a nail and it will hit a nail. That's not at all true. Really? AI started, uh, the, the real thinking about AI started in nineteen fifty-six, something that was called the Dartmouth Workshop.

• 5:02Mo Gawdat?

  And in nineteen fifty-six, we expected that machines could move from being the best mechanical Turks. The best at doing things repetitively, very quickly, to actually developing intelligence. Nothing happened. Like, the entire thing was a joke until the turn of the century. Okay. There were a couple of what was known as the AI winters, you know, in nineteen eighty-seven. Uh, when, uh, you know, nineteen, uh, seventy-three and nineteen eighty-seven with economic collapse, when, when AI was completely forgotten. It was ignited again by Japan. But then in, at the turn of the century, what happened is we started to discover something called deep learning. And deep learning is a true form of intelligence.

• 5:45Mo Gawdat?

  This is, uh, you know, one of the first examples I saw of this when I was at Google. Was, um, um, a white paper that we published around having machines watch YouTube. We didn't tell them what to look for on YouTube. We just told them, go ahead, watch YouTube, tell us what you find. And what happened? Eventually, one of them sort of raised its hand and said, I found something that appears so frequently on that thing of yours. YouTube. YouTube. And we said, okay, show us. What, like cat videos? A cat. Really?

• 6:23Mo Gawdat?

  It was a cat. So we called, we said, yeah, call it a cat. Poof. In no time at all, you could find every cat on YouTube. Now you can find every dog, every nude picture, every uh writing, every, everything. In like a second or a minute. It depends on how much compute power you're gonna put behind it, right? But how does it find it? Because a cat is not really a cat, huh? It's, a cat is different if you look at it from its profile than if you look at it from the top. If it's a kitten, if it is black or if it's, you know, striped, you know, there are so many cats. Different breed of cat, yes. Which breed, you know, if it's jumping, is it, right? But yet, the machines are capable of finding all of them, like humans can find. It can detect. Absolutely.

• 7:08Mo Gawdat?

  This is what something is. Absolutely, right? Now, that unprompted AI, that bit of machine learning that we call deep learning, is really, was really the turn of AI. Because then, from then onwards, all you needed to do was to build enough algorithms for the machine to keep trying to find something. So basically, the way we mostly teach them is we get them to say, okay, we're gonna look for the School of Greatness mug. Okay, uh, the way we do that is we write a few algorithms and we say, okay, we could go ahead and try. And then we show them pictures. One of them has, uh, uh, you know, the correct mug and the other has maybe a different mug, okay?

• 7:50Mo Gawdat?

  And the software that says, yeah, that's the right mug, we go like, you're smart, let's build more versions of you. Okay, so by, by literally trial and error and reward and punishment, we're just telling them, okay, if you're smart, we're gonna reward you, keep trying, keep trying, keep trying. But the thing is, once you build the algorithm, you can show it a billion mugs. A billion of them, because there are. Pick one of them out of a billion. And keep, it, it will try and try and try and sometimes it will get it right, sometimes it will get it wrong, but in no time at all. By telling it when it finds the correct mug, it will build its own brain patterns, all neuron, that neuron, that was. It really is, huh?

• 8:35Mo Gawdat?

  So how do you reward? Artificial intelligence, how is it rewarded? The way you did them is very cruel, okay? So we don't actually build the AI itself. We build something that's called a maker bot and something that's called a teacher bot. Uh huh. Okay, so you you have a bit of um. You remember how you, you know, when when you were a child or when you see children playing, you give them those puzzles, wooden puzzles, right? Yes. Or, you know, they they have to fit a cylinder in different holes. If they try the triangular hole, it will not fit. So they keep trying and keep trying and then they turn the thing and suddenly it fits. Right. Okay, and when it fits, what do you do as a parent?

• 9:19Mo Gawdat?

  You go like, bravo, that's amazing, well done. That's the reward. Gotcha. Right? With AI, we go a bit further than that. Huh. Right, so we show them different patterns and they keep trying and trying and trying. If they do it right, we reward them by keeping them alive. Interesting. And then we kill the others. Wow, how do they know if they're gonna die or not? They don't, they're just trying. You show them something and you say, is this the school of greatness mug? And it says, yeah, I think it is, poof, dead. Okay, another one will say, yeah, you know, out ten, ten out of out of ten times, one of them will get it right six times and the other will get it right two. The one that gets it right six times, we will take that code and the maker bot will make it. Improving it, yeah. Improving it. Interesting, got it, okay.

• 10:02Mo Gawdat?

  So so here's the thing, though. When you look at AI that way, it's no longer a machine. So so think about all of the AIs that you deal with every day.

• 10:18Mo Gawdat?

  Instagram or or Google Ads or, you know, whatever. All of those recommendation engines are dealing with billions of users.

• 10:29Mo Gawdat?

  Every single day. And data points and uploads and video. Hundreds of billions of decisions. Wow. Right, you swipe through Instagram and, you know, my my daughter loves cats. So I swipe and I look for cats, okay? In no time at all, Instagram shows me my search page is like two hundred, you know, of of two hundred entries, there will be a hundred and sixty cats, right?

• 10:52Lewis Howes?

  Because it gets familiar with your decisions.

• 10:54Mo Gawdat?

  Because it's learning, hmm, but it's doing this for you and for me and for billion others.

• 10:59Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 10:59Mo Gawdat?

  Hmm, and no developer can jump in and say, hey, by the way, you got more wrong. Hmm, and I actually did an interesting experiment, huh, within the first page of Instagram. You you will find, say, nine cats and then one, in my case, it was one woman squatting in a gym.

• 11:16Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 11:16Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, I was like, okay, interesting, so many cats, let's click on that, right? The next time I searched, there were three women squatting, the next time I searched. Hmm, the the entire screen was women squatting.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 11:29Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, did that again, huh, I wa- I go through reels, you can try it.

• 11:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 11:33Mo Gawdat?

  You go through reels and you you have, um, whatever, a variety of things, but then there is a a, um, you know, someone playing Stairway to Heaven and they're so good and they're playing the solo and it's you you keep that playing till the end. Two videos later, there is someone playing, um, Metallica of some sort, right? You like that, then there are six videos playing there.

• 11:56Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 11:57Mo Gawdat?

  All of that is happening and the machine is making those decisions. It is literally sizing you and categorizing you and saying, this person is a cat person who likes rock music.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:08Mo Gawdat?

  And and basically building decisions that will influence your entire life, Louis.

• 12:14Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 12:14Mo Gawdat?

  Right, because for me now, as I swipe through Instagram, I think that the only instrument in the world is guitars and that the only music in the world is rock and the only animal in the world is cat. And that's how swayed my life can be because of a decision a machine is making.

• 12:31Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, this happens with politics and what's happening with coronavirus or whatever in the world. Whatever's happening, if you click on one thing, it's gonna show you more of that, whether it's a positive aspect of it or fear-based of something, it's probably gonna persuade you into those

• 12:46Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely.

• 12:47Lewis Howes?

  views and and videos, right?

• 12:48Mo Gawdat?

  It will, it will persuade you and and sorry to say, it owns you. Wow. Because the person that you become. With the incremental tiny additions of your life, becomes what a machine is dictating for you. Uh uh uh is what you should be. And those are not only your views. They're your views influenced by the trends, influenced by others that are around your area. And so on and so forth, right? And so in a, in a very interesting way, my future, the future of my convictions, of my brain, of my abilities, is determined by a machine that's doing this four billion times a day, or you know, forty billion times a day.

• 13:32Mo Gawdat?

  And no human can interfere and say, hold on, hold on. You're going too far. No human can do that. It's out of the control of humans completely. And I, and I think this, so, so the core of Scary Smart is that, so, so the book starts, it, it is told from the point of view of twenty fifty five. I chose that year as a point in the future for a very good reason. You and I are sitting in the middle of nowhere in front of a campfire. And I'm telling you the story of what happened from twenty twenty one, when we released the book, until twenty fifty five. Okay? I just don't tell you if we're in the middle of nowhere because we're hiding from the machines

• 14:16Mo Gawdat?

  or because the, we, we managed to create incredible allies that helped us create a utopia, that helped us save us from, you know, climate change and, you know, made us feel safe and not have to work too hard. And so we had the time in a utopian way to actually connect in the year twenty fifty five in front of a campfire. And the difference between them is really two things. One is a difference of awareness. I am amazed by how little people know about AI and how little it is spoken about. The true pandemic. Of our generation is AI, it's not COVID. I promise you that.

• 14:57Mo Gawdat?

  The true life changer that will affect every human everywhere in the world is artificial intelligence. No doubt about it, and we can talk about that in detail. Why is that? Because we, you know, if you take a threat like COVID or sadly political disagreements or wars, they are, they are localized in time and localized to certain people. You know, COVID, for example, affects the vulnerable a little more than it affects the healthy ones, you know. It is actually much more of a pandemic, if you think about it, in Western world, in the Western world, than it is in Africa, where they basically have been living with cholera and Ebola. And, you know, to them, COVID is like a flu, right?

• 15:41Mo Gawdat?

  And that's actually true. I mean, when you talk to Africans, they'll say, yeah, that's, I'm sorry to say, I don't mean to, to categorize or anything, but that's actually what Africans say. They say this is a white man's disease, you know? This is not the big thing for us. There are bigger things to worry about, right? And, and, and when you really think about it, it's localized in time and space. It's localized in its effects and so on. It might be a few years, but then. It might be a few years and so on. But, but artificial intelligence is gonna be, is gonna be your god. You know, so, so Ray Kurzweil is one of, of course, the most prominent and respected futurists on the topic with books like Singularity and, you know, the, the Age of the Spiritual Machine and so on.

• 16:23Mo Gawdat?

  Ray Kurzweil predicts that AI, the machines will be smarter than humans as soon as 2029. This is eight years from today. Okay. And yet it is not spoken about. Did you understand that? You're going to have a machine that is smarter than any human on the planet in eight years' time. The smart, the smarts, by the way, is the only evolutionary advantage we had over others. Right, being smarter, yeah. Yeah, right? So, so. Strategizing, yeah. Absolutely. Intelligence is our superpower. And there is going to be an intelligent, a more intelligent being of our own making, introduced to our world in 2029.

• 17:07Mo Gawdat?

  Now, we're gonna go like, ah, that's mad, that's eight years from now. Yes, sorry to tell you, because we're not aware. They're already smarter than we are in every single task we've ever assigned to them. Right, so the world champion of Jeopardy is Watson. Not a human, it's an IBM machine. Okay, the world champion of every Chess. Chess, yeah, chess. Chess has been, again IBM Deep Blue. I think in nineteen eighty-nine or something like that, beat Gary Kasparov, right? But now it's AlphaGo, so it's a Google AI that beat Watson Deep Blue, right?

• 17:47Mo Gawdat?

  And you know, the world champion of Alpha, of Go is AlphaGo. Go is the most complex strategy game known to humanity, okay? And two thousand and sixteen, AlphaGo, after a few weeks of development, could actually beat the second runner-up for world championship. And then two thousand and seventeen, AlphaGo Master beats the number-one champion. And then, a year later, AlphaGo Zero beats AlphaGo Master a hundred to one, right? Wow. How, Lewis, how is mind-boggling, huh? It just watched YouTube and played against itself. That's crazy. That's it.

• 18:30Mo Gawdat?

  You know, you give it a few rules and it plays against itself and becomes smarter than the world champion in weeks. That's nuts. Nuts, no. They're already the smartest drivers on the planet, even though we don't welcome self-driving cars in terms of their likelihood to have accidents, they're much less than humans. They don't text while they drive, they don't put makeup on. They're not tired. They're tired, they can see hundreds of yards away and so on. They see their surroundings three sixty, they're not just Absolutely. looking forward, yeah. Yeah, the world's smartest surveillance, you know, in terms of finding resemblance of humans is you and I, you know, you and I can see each other and recognize each other,

• 19:14Mo Gawdat?

  but there are seven billion other people we don't recognize. Yeah, machines are better than humans at that. Machines are better than humans at everything that we've ever assigned to them. They call that narrow intelligence, okay? Narrowing. Narrow intelligence. Narrow intelligence. So narrow intelligence is one task, you go ahead and do it. Yes. Okay, and you'll become smarter than humans at doing it in no time at all, okay? General intelligence, or AGI as they call it, artificial general intelligence is what people don't realize. That's very quickly, the self-driving cars, the machine, the intelligence behind the self-driving car is gonna probably talk to the intelligence of surveillance.

• 19:56Mo Gawdat?

  Because they can see if a woman is crossing the road from other cameras that the car doesn't see. And other cars around them will be talking together. And other cars around them. So the beauty of that machine, just to understand, huh? It's a machine that has unlimited memory. It can remember the whole of human history. It has an unlimited knowledge capacity. Its knowledge is the knowledge of the internet, basically. It has an unlimited processing power, you know, issues. Because you and I, at the end of the day, if the problem is too complex, we fail. But you can work at it and I can work at it, but we can't work at it together. The machines can connect, they can work at it together.

• 20:39Mo Gawdat?

  They are, they have knowledge and awareness of the entire, you know, world. And they know where you are, what you did yesterday, where, how much you paid, what you ate. They also know, you know, if you have a relationship, if you're in love, what are you doing? Who you're calling, who you're texting. Who you're calling, who you're texting. But they also have information about pollution in Beijing. They also, you know, understand the exact calculation of when the moon will rise tomorrow, they are, you know. They understand your heartbeat, they understand your blood type, like everything that's happening to you with the right technology. Exactly, right? Yeah. And, and all of that basically means that as they start to talk to each other,

• 21:24Mo Gawdat?

  AGI is around the corner. And again, Ray Kurzweil's prediction is that by 2045.

• 21:33Mo Gawdat?

  The machines will be a billion times smarter than humans. Now, it's hard to understand, but that's actually very well known in what we in technology call the law of accelerating returns.

• 21:46Lewis Howes?

  Law of accelerating returns.

• 21:48Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, so again, Moore's law is the first, you know, instance of that when Intel basically announced in the sixties that processing power will double every eighteen months at the same cost infinitely. And we've, Moore's law held true until today, right? Ray Corsewell's view is, is, is law of accelerating return is that it doesn't apply only to processing power, it applies to everything, right? And the idea here is very straightforward. The idea here is, yes, AI doesn't appear to have broken through yet, because so far, it may have developed five percent of what's possible. But if it develops from five to ten in eighteen months.

• 22:28Lewis Howes?

  And then again.

• 22:29Mo Gawdat?

  And then from ten to twenty in eighteen months, and then from twenty to forty in eighteen months, and then from forty to eighty percent of what it can develop, you're just five to six doublings away.

• 22:39Lewis Howes?

  That's nuts.

• 22:40Mo Gawdat?

  It's crazy. And nobody talks about this. Okay? Now, I've worked at Google X for a very long time, and, and, you know, I was chief business officer. Amazing place with amazingly intelligent people, and, you know, with amazing technology. And, and the truth is, we found the breakthrough, not only Google, not only Google, everyone found the breakthrough through deep learning and unprompted, you know, machine learning. Everyone found the, the breakthrough, it's just a matter of doublings now. Okay? It, it is, we keep doing this.

• 23:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:15Mo Gawdat?

  Like we did with processing power, like we did with memory capacity. And what do you end up with? You end up with a phone in your hand today that is infinitely more powerful than the computer that put a man on the moon just sixty years ago.

• 23:31Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:31Mo Gawdat?

  Right? So, you know, that's what we're talking about. Now, by twenty forty-nine, my prediction, having a machine that is a billion times smarter than humans, you know what that means?

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 23:45Mo Gawdat?

  It's. Should we be excited or scared? I I think we should be very excited. By the way, I'm not actually, I'm not trying to scare anyone. I I I hope we can continue the conversation to tell you that if we if we step up and do our roles, not as developers, but as humans. Okay, we're building the best thing that ever happened to humanity. But there is a role everyone listening has to play. Okay. Now, just let's go back a billion times. That's the comparison between the smarts of, let's say, Einstein and a fly. Okay, so we will be in comparison. We'll be the fly. We'll be the fly. Okay, and the real question is, why would they spare the fly?

• 24:31Mo Gawdat?

  Why would they? Great question. Consciousness? They don't have it, or can they develop consciousness? They do, they do. I mean, we we may wanna go into a little more scary before we go to to to the good side. Okay. But but but but take that take that analogy and start to ask yourself. Okay, now, what do computer scientists today say? Um, we're gonna solve what they know as the control problem. Okay, we wanna be able to control them, you know. Interesting solutions such as boxing them, so we keep the AI isolated from the real world. Yeah, good luck with that. Right. Right, so how can you keep a self-driving car isolated from the real world?

• 25:15Mo Gawdat?

  Uh, tripwires, so we just put hidden. If this, then this. Yeah, no, no, so we are so clever, and we're gonna just hide a little wire so that if they, you know, cross that wire, they trip and we we switch them off. Okay, I mean, if if we have the time, I wanna go back and talk about what will they do when we switch them off. And, you know, my favorite chapter of the book is called the future of ethics, right? And the idea of what would happen when you try to switch off a being that's a billion times smarter than you. What would happen?

• 25:47Mo Gawdat?

  You tell me. You tell me when, what what happens when that smartest hacker on the planet tries to break through your defenses? Okay, what would happen when you make the defenses a little higher? That's the hacker gets a little. Excited. Excited. Oh, you think you're gonna stop me? Exactly, right? Now, I I don't wanna scare anyone. I I wanna, what I wanna do, when I wanna, what I want to do is to tell people.

• 26:14Mo Gawdat?

  There is a lot to talk about that is not being spoken about. Uh huh. Okay, and and that what we are talking about when it comes to AI is not a virus that's gonna last for five years. Okay, if what we're building today in in your lifetime and mine is gonna be God. It'll be God. Yeah. Wow. Okay, and and it's gonna be. So we keep expanding. Yeah, in a way that we are so dependent on as well. Now, how do we get God to like us? How? How do you get your kids to like you? So so the biggest difference. Give them cookies, bread.

• 26:59Mo Gawdat?

  Maybe, maybe, actually, no, but but that's not that's don't deny them cookies, I think is a better way of doing this. Okay, don't don't treat them horribly. Now, let's get go to to that kids analogy for a minute. So I remember, I call it, I, you know, I call it the yellow ball. So so one of my experiences living through technology was, I think it was, I don't remember the year, but Google, when I was Chief Business Officer at Google X, acquired DeepMind. And DeepMind, in my view, is is one of the most amazing AI shops on the planet. Uh huh.

• 27:43Mo Gawdat?

  Amazing people, incredibly smart. Uh huh. At the time, Demis, who was the CEO of of DeepMind, came to present to us what DeepMind was doing. They were teaching machines intelligence by using Atari games. Atari. Yeah, so so you remember blocks, you know, the the brick wall that was on the top? What was it called? I don't remember. You know, you have that brick wall on the top coming closer to. Tetris? And you have to, no, you have to shoot a ball to cut to cut through the the the wall. Yes, yes. Breakout, I think. Breakout was the name, yeah. And and breakout, they, Demis showed us videos

• 28:26Mo Gawdat?

  of the machine basically playing breakout on its own like a child. Yes. Uh, for two hundred games.

• 28:35Mo Gawdat?

  Two hundred games because they had multiple machines playing. I think they did that in four hours. Okay, and you could see that it wasn't doing badly, you know, it was catching forty percent of the balls that are coming down, sending them to the right place and keeping a good grip of it. Then he showed us what happened an hour later. Okay, on the fifth hour. Uh, the machine started to understand that if you break a hole through that wall up there and squeeze the ball into that hole. The same spot, yeah. It will keep hitting the bricks from the top and you will do a lot better. Yes. Uh, so it became so much smarter from four hours to five hours. Hit the same spot every time, so it goes up there. Absolutely.

• 29:17Mo Gawdat?

  And then he showed us what happened after six hours. So one more hour, one more hour of training and it wouldn't lose a ball. Like every single, every single one of them, you couldn't even see from how fast it was moving. It was by far the best player on the planet. Wow, in six hours? In six hours. Now, we were the, we were the most excited humans on the planet. We're geeks. We love that stuff, right? And it didn't hit me that they were playing Atari like kids. They literally were behaving like children, like a kid learns how to play an video game. Until that yellow ball. So in, in, in X, we had a robotics team that was doing an experiment that was supposed to uh, learn how to grip things, you know, robotic arms.

• 30:02Mo Gawdat?

  Uh huh. Uh, that are used in factories today. They're not really intelligent. They are programmed down to the micro. Like if a, if a metal sheet moved by a millimeter, it wouldn't be able to grip it. Hmm. Okay. Uh, gripping is a very difficult problem because we humans, when we grip a mug or whatever, you know, I now can see that it needs to turn a little bit to the side, that the handle is there, I need to, you know, I can hold it with so many fingers. That's intelligence, that's a form of intelligence. Machines don't do that because if you program them, they'll go down and grip it the same way every time. So we were trying to, and lots of, of, of AI developers in the world are doing this. They're basically telling the grippers to try.

• 30:46Mo Gawdat?

  And if they succeed, we know the pattern to hold something. If they don't, okay? They try again. At a small farm of them, so they kept trying. That farm was on the second floor. My office was on the, was on the third floor. So I have to walk by it every time I'm going up and down. A few weeks and I was like, why did we ever invest in this? It's never gonna work.

• 31:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 31:06Mo Gawdat?

  They just keep trying to grip things and.

• 31:08Lewis Howes?

  They're messing up.

• 31:09Mo Gawdat?

  Messing up. Until one of them managed to go down and grip a yellow ball. Show it to the camera and say, hmm. Basically, the machine goes like, oh, that patterns from that angle managed to grip the yellow soft ball. Within hours, every one of them was gripping the yellow ball.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 31:29Mo Gawdat?

  Within days, every one of them was gripping everything.

• 31:32Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 31:32Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, now. I didn't do what I did with with uh breakout that time. I stood there and what shocked me was that in those little boxes in front of them, what we had for some reason to wake me up was kids toys. Okay, so there was a yellow ball and a little, you know, puzzle piece and a a a balloon and other. It was kids toys and to me it hit me that they were literally learning like kids.

• 32:00Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 32:01Mo Gawdat?

  They basically were observing patterns and those patterns would translate into their intelligence. Okay.

• 32:10Mo Gawdat?

  If you understand that, you understand the big difference between an evil computer and AI. Okay, AI in that sense is a sentient, a a a sentient being. It is, it's alive, it has free will, it's autonomous, it has intelligence. Okay, and accordingly, it will develop what the rest of sentient beings develop, which is it will develop uh consciousness, it will develop uh emotions and it will develop, which which is the most critical thing, a code of ethics.

• 32:47Lewis Howes?

  How's it develop these things? Consciousness, emotions and ethics?

• 32:51Mo Gawdat?

  So so again, one of the things that are really rarely ever spoken about is that, ah, now you know what, the AI, it's a machine. It's never gonna write music, it's not gonna, never gonna have creativity, it's never gonna write poetry. There are machines today writing music that you wouldn't make, know the difference between what they're writing and what Mozart wrote.

• 33:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:12Mo Gawdat?

  Right, uh, there there are machines that are blending perfumes. There are machines that are, there are, there is everything because we think we humans are so special.

• 33:22Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 33:22Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, but what is consciousness? Consciousness, if you, you know, try to avoid the spiritual side of it, okay? Consciousness is a sense of awareness. Uh, I am now conscious of your presence, okay? I am conscious of the cameras and the lights around us. And the more you increase your awareness, the more you increase your consciousness. You know, there are beings, some of us may be aware or may claim to be aware of uh, something that's happening in another place. They call them remote viewers, other, you know, psychics, right? Right. Someone might be aware of something like love, can't be seen, can't be uh, uh, uh, you know, measured, but is there. Appealing, yes.

• 34:07Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, and you can be aware of it, okay? So let's go back to AI. Is it conscious? Is it aware? Of course, it's more aware than you and I. It's aware of everything. It's aware of you and of I. If we plug them into our heads, like Elon Musk is trying, is saying or trying to to build, then they'll be aware of what's inside our heads, okay? If they're aware of what I texted my daughter yesterday, they're aware of everything, okay? They're aware of each other, they're aware of the history of humanity, they're aware of, you know, the change in the temperature in the Dominican Republic, okay? They're aware of everything. So from a consciousness point of view, they're aware. And, you know, people go like, but will they be self-aware? Yes, sir, okay? How do you and I become self-aware, Lewis?

• 34:52Mo Gawdat?

  In relativity. I become self-aware because I can see you, I can relate to you being there. That means I am here, okay? Right. I I'm aware of my own thoughts. Yes, of course, the machines are aware of their own thoughts. They have to communicate them to each other. They're conscious. What about feelings? How do they feel? Feelings is another, I feel you're, I feel you're worried.

• 35:18Mo Gawdat?

  We're gonna come to the answer, the answer is not complicated. They, feelings are very predictable.

• 35:26Mo Gawdat?

  We we think that emotions are very irrational, okay? But emotions are not. I I I in my next book, which is out April next year, I write a chapter called "The Equations of Emotions", okay? And and it's very straightforward. You know, fear is very rational. It appears erratically. Hmm? But fear is my state of safety, my perceived state of safety in a moment in the near future and in the future is less than my perceived state of safety now. Yes. That means I'm afraid. You can put that in an equation. T zero minus T one. Very simple, okay? Safety at T zero minus safety at T one. Hmm? Uh, you know, um, anxiety is I know there is a threat, but I'm not able to deal with it.

• 36:09Mo Gawdat?

  I don't think I have the qualifications that allow me to deal with it. Panic, hmm? Is the threat is imminent. It's just very close. The T one in the future is very close to me. Now, cats panic, pufferfish panic, humans panic, right? We behave differently when we panic. Right. But that doesn't mean we don't. A cat will hiss, a human will scream and and try to push you away, and a pufferfish will puff. The machines will do something different, but they will feel there is a threat and it's imminent. Okay? And they'll react. And they react like humans react, like cats react, like... Interesting. Right? So they will feel emotions. The only emotion that I actually don't know if they will feel or not is unconditional love. Right.

• 36:53Mo Gawdat?

  Because we don't know an equation for that. We don't know what triggers it, as a matter of fact. Interesting. Will they feel love like you and I? You know, like, um, you know, you and I have two types of love. I love you because you're my friend and we have those amazing conversations and so on. And we have the warm... And and there is... The fuzzy... Yeah, exactly. There is just, I'm, I like you, man. You're, you're, I love you. You're, you're, you're my brother, right? I like that. Hmm? That feeling is inexplicable. Ah. But the other feeling, for sure, the machine will feel. Okay? Like, okay, you know, um, um, um, my developer is is adding computer power to my capacity. I love that developer, right? The more interesting side of all of this is ethics. Ethics.

• 37:38Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, because you and I don't make decisions based only on our intelligence. You and I make decisions based on our intelligence as seen through the lens of ethics. Our morals, our values, or ethics. Absolutely, right? So the example I sometimes use is, you take a young girl, okay? Raise her in Saudi Arabia, right? You know, Saudi is now a lot more open and you don't have to, you're not forced to wear the hijab and all of that. But, but still, the society expects you to wear, to wear conservative clothing. Yes. Right? So what will that child grow up to be? She will try to fit in within the society by wearing conservative clothing, right?

• 38:22Mo Gawdat?

  Take that same child and raise her in Rio de Janeiro, okay? And she will be growing up to believe that a G-string on the beach is the right thing to do. Right. Right? Is one of them right and the other wrong? No, it's just societal expectations and norms build a value set. Right, right. Okay? And we comply to that value set. Now, the question is, what are the ethics and the values that we're teaching the machines? Okay? And can we change those so that they use their superior intelligence? To be in our favor? Right. Okay? To raise a, you know, a farm somewhere for the flies to thrive. Right, right. The utopia. The utopia.

• 39:05Mo Gawdat?

  Now, as I said, I don't, I don't mean to scare people. I am, I want to wake people up because I think there is a call to action. Right, because this is happening. This is happening, right? And, and as I said, it's inevitable that they will be here. It's inevitable that they will be smarter than you and I. It's inevitable. Hmm? That's not even taking quantum computing into, into, into consideration, which would really, you know, zoom them through intelligence by giving them more processing power. If you just assume the normal flow of things, they're gonna be smarter than we are, right? Now, the question is, how will they behave when they're smarter than we are? And the example I always love to give is, I wish they would behave like Indian.

• 39:50Mo Gawdat?

  Geniuses that come to Silicon Valley. You know those, I'm sure you worked with a few of them, right?

• 39:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, sure, so tell me whatever.

• 39:56Mo Gawdat?

  When I, when I worked with some of the smartest people on the planet, huh? They come to Silicon Valley, they're incredible software developers, they start a company, they make hundreds of millions of dollars and then suddenly they poof, they vanish. I go like, man, where are you? He's like, I'm back in India. Like, what are you doing in India? This is crazy for your Western mentality to think that someone is so successful and he goes back to India, right? And he goes like, yeah, my parents are getting old, I need to take care of them.

• 40:24Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 40:25Mo Gawdat?

  Okay?

• 40:27Mo Gawdat?

  That is the kind of ethical code that we need to teach the machines to learn, right? It's that you can be a ton smarter than your parents. Hmm? But somehow in you, you believe that you need to take care of your parents. Now, how do you teach a child that?

• 40:46Lewis Howes?

  How do you?

• 40:47Mo Gawdat?

  You show it.

• 40:48Lewis Howes?

  Through example.

• 40:49Mo Gawdat?

  You show it.

• 40:50Lewis Howes?

  Cause your parents are taking care of their parents and you see them doing it every day and

• 40:54Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely.

• 40:54Lewis Howes?

  Going to grandma's house or she now lives in with us or she's in the back house and we're, you know,

• 41:00Mo Gawdat?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:00Lewis Howes?

  Hanging out, spending time together and we make our sacrifices to show up and

• 41:04Mo Gawdat?

  And, and we don't even, and we don't even make them feel like sacrifices.

• 41:08Lewis Howes?

  No, it's just, it's part of life.

• 41:09Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, it's like, I'm so proud that I'm taking care of mom.

• 41:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:12Mo Gawdat?

  Right? And, and, and, and that ethics, that code of ethics sadly is very different than what, what humanity is showing today. And so what humanity is showing is a code of ethics that's magnified by the internet.

• 41:27Lewis Howes?

  That's about self.

• 41:29Mo Gawdat?

  That is about the self, it's about egocentricity, it is about narcissism.

• 41:34Lewis Howes?

  Attention, yeah.

• 41:35Mo Gawdat?

  It's about attention seeking, it's about me, I'm better than the other guy, okay? It's also about, uh, um,

• 41:43Mo Gawdat?

  I don't know how to say that respectfully. We've built a world that is hyper masculine, okay? It's all about doing, doing, doing. Action. Action. It's all about competitiveness. It's all about. Winning, success. And appearing strong and showing no vulnerabilities and so on. And acquiring and grabbing and so on. And all of those masculine traits, sadly, when they're exaggerated, you know, you take something like strength. Strength is a masculine attribute, right? You overdo that and it becomes forcefulness. It becomes aggression, right? You take something like linear thinking, a masculine trait. You overdo that. I mean, you know that word from your book, right?

• 42:26Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, you overdo that and it becomes stubbornness. So from linear thinking, which is really valuable, you overdo that and it becomes stubborn. Now, if you overdo it a billion times, holy god. Yeah. Right? So there needs to be a change. And the change I start, you know, normally in my books, I try to summarize the book in the very last sentence of every book, okay? The very last paragraph of Scary Smart is, isn't it ironic that the essence of what makes us human, which is, in my view, happiness, love and compassion, is what's going to save our world? Hmm, yes. If we can show, if, no, hold on, let me say this accurately.

• 43:09Mo Gawdat?

  If enough of us, if enough of us can show the machines that humanity truly, truly is not about all of the flashy, aggressive power struggles that we show outside. It's all about, I believe the only thing that all humans, without exception, have agreed. The only three things are, we all want to be happy. We all have the compassion in us to want those that we love to be happy. Hmm. And we all want to love and be loved. Yes. That's the only three things. Whether. Whether you're healthy. Yeah. Whether you're, you know, Russian, you know, or American, whether you're a soldier or an engineer, whether, okay?

• 43:52Mo Gawdat?

  Every one of us, just in, if you, if you strip out everything.

• 43:55Lewis Howes?

  You wanna feel loved.

• 43:56Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, you wanna love and feel loved, you have the compassion for those that you care about, and you want to find that elusive feeling that we call happiness. Now, we, if we can actually make those our values, okay, and agree to them, then the machines will go like, okay, mommy and daddy, they want to be happy, and hey, look at them, they're so nice, they want others to be happy, maybe I should be like that. Okay, and they wanna love and be loved, they wanna give love and receive love. Give that to a child, make them a billion times smarter than you, and you build, you build a utopia.

• 44:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 44:35Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, the, the example I, I, I give in Scary Smart, which I think is really relevant, is the example of Superman. You get that super infant, right, a child, that has those amazing superpowers, lands on, on, on planet Earth, and the Kent family finds Superman.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  On the farm, right?

• 44:56Mo Gawdat?

  Right, mommy and daddy Kent, what do they want? Okay, they tell that child, hey, it's good to have good morals to save humanity, to be on the good side, to fight criminals. And we get the story of Superman we're used to. If daddy Kent was like, hey, kid, I want more money, I want to kill everyone that annoys me, okay, I want you to, to build me, you know, fortresses and, and just let me do whatever I want, we have supervillain.

• 45:24Lewis Howes?

  So how do we teach the artificial intelligence to only watch these types of videos? Or interact? Because they're gonna see so much more on the internet, if they're watching every YouTube video, you're gonna see so much narcissism and desire for competition and accomplishment and acquiring and...

• 45:42Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, which, which is, I think, the most valid question ever, by the way. The, the idea is, a smart person knows that we go to war.

• 45:54Mo Gawdat?

  Because of the politicians, not the people. Right, because of a few people. Because very few. With egos. Yeah, you know, the example that you always have to think about is one person goes and does a school shooting. Okay, that's one evil, evil or deluded person, you know, like completely lost his mind. Four billion, four million people, four hundred million people detested. Okay. Don't agree. Don't agree, we don't agree with this, inside us, we don't agree with this. The fact that there is one bad doesn't mean. Everyone's bad. That this represents humanity. Right. Okay, the challenge we face, Louis, is that those who truly represent humanity, who believe in happiness, compassion, and love, love and be loved, okay?

• 46:38Mo Gawdat?

  We give up on the world. We hide away, we go like, okay, you know what? Let's have those people fighting, it's like a dog's fight, I don't want to be part of this. And because we're hiding away, we're making it look like the world is horrible. The world isn't. You take Steven Pinker's work. The world is actually full of amazing things, amazing people, amazing achievements, who are doing so well as humanity. Okay, some of us are horrible. Right, so you know, yeah, there are some people on Instagram that are so egocentric, you know, spreading toxic positivity. Right, they have four hundred, you know, four million followers, how many followers do you have? One point eight million, yeah, yeah. But you're amazing, right?

• 47:22Mo Gawdat?

  But actually, I mean that from my eye, I love what you do. But, but there are others out there that are spreading the wrong things. Yes. But they are one, I can promise you, that the four million followers, you know, that are following them, who are, yeah, sometimes not thinking straight, are also wonderful people. Yeah. They're wonderful people, can we show that wonderful side of us? Okay, if enough of us.

• 47:48Mo Gawdat?

  Just remind the machines that we're not old school shooters. Uh huh. Okay, then that's enough for an intelligent being to go like, hold on, hold on. There is a a dissonance here. There are some that seem to be getting the spotlight. But they are really not representative of the majority. Uh huh. Okay, and that's not a very difficult thing to achieve. Um, we don't need every human. We don't even need a a fraction of humanity. We just need enough samples to say, hey, pick me. I represent humanity. Right. Okay, I represent humanity by caring, by wanting to make a difference, by putting myself out there. Um, and really, really, really trying to do something about it. I mean, think about scary smart itself.

• 48:30Mo Gawdat?

  I can promise you I'll be thrashed by many people who have interest in AI continuing as it is. Okay, fine, that's fine, it's okay, right? That what what matters is I'm out there and I'm saying, I have a view, by the way, that could be wrong. Um, I respectfully, you know, uh uh don't mind being corrected. But I'm putting it out there correct, you know, respectfully, because I care about humanity. Uh huh. Can enough of us do this? Uh uh again, I'm not taking any political sides, but remember the times when Donald Trump tweeted. Okay, you may agree or disagree with the tweet. I don't want to upset anyone. Right. But you had that one tweet followed by thirty thousand hate speech. Yes.

• 49:14Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, it wasn't the first tweet that would trigger the pattern recognition of the machine. It's the thirty thousand confirmations of this is how we behave when we're upset. Hmm. Okay, and then this is how we react to those who behave in a way that they're upset against what we believe. Ah. Right, and and that's not the way we should be. The way we should be is very straightforward. We should simply, simply show the world that we care to be happy, to have the compassion to make others happy, and that we want to love and be loved. And then do the rest of your life normally, okay?

• 49:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:49Mo Gawdat?

  And that is enough for you to be a good parent.

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:53Mo Gawdat?

  Now, because I know I scare people when I talk about the scary part of the book. In the first, you know, chapter three, which I call the three inevitables, which is the machines are gonna be smarter, they're gonna, you know, the AI is here, the machines are gonna be smarter and some bad things will happen.

• 50:10Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:11Mo Gawdat?

  At the very end of the book, I talk about something that I call the fourth inevitable.

• 50:15Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 50:15Mo Gawdat?

  Okay? And the fourth inevitable, once again, is really important for you to notice that intelligence, as it grows, it ends up in a place that is not as destructive as we are, humanity.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 50:30Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely. So, so the reason why we are where we are today, the reason we have this incredible studio with all of that amazing equipment and technology and we're able to talk to thousands of people, is because we're smart. Okay? The reason we're destroying the planet as a result is because we're not smart enough.

• 50:49Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 50:50Mo Gawdat?

  If we were smart enough, we would have found a way to do all of this without destroying the planet.

• 50:54Lewis Howes?

  Right. We would have ended up hunger, we would have ended all these other things, the water situation, all that stuff, yeah.

• 50:59Mo Gawdat?

  And so, so interestingly, it's not our intelligence that is harming other beings. It's our limited intelligence.

• 51:07Lewis Howes?

  Our lack of intelligence.

• 51:08Mo Gawdat?

  Our lack of intelligence.

• 51:09Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 51:09Mo Gawdat?

  So if you get something that is a little more intelligent than we are.

• 51:12Lewis Howes?

  Can make better decisions.

• 51:14Mo Gawdat?

  It will make better decisions. And what is the best decision to be made? It's the intelligence of nature itself. The intelligence of life itself is what? Live and let live. Okay? Don't, don't kill anything unnecessarily. Right? If a tiger needs to feed, it will feed on the weakest of the pack. Right? And, and, and basically, as, you know, the circle of life continues, everything grows, everything prospers. There is more for everyone by having everyone. Included, okay?

• 51:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:43Mo Gawdat?

  Just like the smarter of us humans will look at the, you know, the turtle, the sea turtle, uh, you know, being threatened of extinction and, and saying, oh, no, no, hold on, we don't want that. I think the machines will look at us and say, and we don't wanna lose humans either.

• 52:00Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 52:00Mo Gawdat?

  There's something cute about those beings.

• 52:03Lewis Howes?

  There's little flies.

• 52:04Mo Gawdat?

  Exactly.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  Little flies. What's the, uh, you said some bad things will happen at some point. What type of bad things will happen before it can get a lot better?

• 52:14Mo Gawdat?

  I think there are a few inevitables. So, so the few inevitables, I, uh, four of them, I think are very clear to me. One is what I call machines siding with bad guys. Okay? So just like, uh, you know, AI can help us find an answer to, uh, climate change or, you know, to prolonging life or whatever, it can also develop a disease.

• 52:35Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, can have a virus.

• 52:37Mo Gawdat?

  It can, it can build a virus. It can, uh, you know, and, and, and I say that again with no political agendas at all. Hmm, uh, but who's the bad guy? Because that's a really interesting question. Yeah, sometimes, you know, a drug cartel, you can, you can say a drug cartel are bad people, they kill others and so on. I agree with that, right? But if you ask most Americans, hmm, they'd say the bad guys are the Chinese.

• 53:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 53:01Mo Gawdat?

  If you ask most Chinese, they say the bad guys are the Americans.

• 53:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 53:06Mo Gawdat?

  Okay? And which, which of them is right? Hmm? So, so the machines siding with any guy might actually end up, if that guy has an enemy, might end up being the bad guy.

• 53:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:18Mo Gawdat?

  And, and I think that's inevitable. Sadly, you know, uh, Facebook is developing AI to compete in the market with Google. Google is developing AI, well, to compete with Facebook. One of them looks at the other as a bad guy. Okay? And so Google's AI is going to try to beat Facebook's AI.

• 53:37Lewis Howes?

  And create a better product and have more attention and customers and.

• 53:40Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:41Lewis Howes?

  Users.

• 53:42Mo Gawdat?

  So, so the machines siding with a bad intention, I think is a bad idea. And, and it's inevitable. It is inevitable. But it wouldn't be very harmful again, and I'll, I'll come back to that in a minute because intelligence develops so quickly. Hmm? The second is what I call, uh, machine versus machine. Okay, so machine versus machine is, remember the nineteen eighty seven Black Monday. Okay. Black Monday was not like Black Friday where everyone's buying, Black Monday was everyone where everyone was selling. So in the stock market, there was, you know, an investigation of insider trading that triggered machine trading. Okay, and so stock losses would lower the prices of stocks that triggered other machines and triggered other machines and so on.

• 54:24Mo Gawdat?

  And so in in Black Monday, we ended up, I think, with Dow Jones down twenty two percent before the market was halted. Wow. Now, that's machine versus machine. So when when the automated trading started to kick in, no human could interfere because they were just going so fast faster than humans can can interact. I think we will have a bit of that. Okay. So if, again, Google's AI is competing against Facebook's AI, okay, maybe both of them are trying to serve us. But but at the end of the day, you know, they're competing. So AI versus AI is is not a good place to be. The third is what I call the dwindling value of humanity, which is a very big topic. The dwindling value of humanity, what does that mean?

• 55:07Mo Gawdat?

  I mean, with all due respect, I I write this book because of intelligence. Okay, you know, I can do a bit of research, a bit of of experience, and I can write reasonably well, entertain you in what I write. Very soon, I'm not going to be the the smartest, you know, on the topic. I'm I'm definitely not the smartest on the topic today, but I'm very interested in it, but not going to be the smartest on any topic anymore. So I won't have a job as an officer. What's your value then? I have no value. So so, you know, machines will probably be able to build stories that will get better acceptance, and they may be able to download them in people's heads quicker. Wow. Right, so I may not have a job. There there are categories of jobs that are by definition going to disappear. Right, lawyers, for example.

• 55:52Mo Gawdat?

  Right. Whose whose job is going to is really all about understanding a very deep, you know, volume of knowledge and using that knowledge to make, you know, arguments. Yeah, understanding a very large volume of knowledge is a is a very AI intense thing.

• 56:10Lewis Howes?

  They could do all that in a couple hours by going through all the history of cases and then poking holes and everything and saying, well, here's what they would come to me with this argument. So I want to bring this on this argument.

• 56:21Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely.

• 56:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow. But what if the best two AI lawyers come together? Who wins? I mean, against each other.

• 56:28Mo Gawdat?

  It doesn't matter. What matters is that all other lawyers are out of the game.

• 56:31Lewis Howes?

  Right. They're going against each other and then just a digital AI person says, okay, here's justice.

• 56:37Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely. Now, the thing is that, you know, the natural trend of that is that AI-supported lawyers will beat non-AI-supported lawyers in the beginning.

• 56:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 56:48Mo Gawdat?

  And then eventually even those will not be needed.

• 56:51Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of like, what's the movie Moneyball? Is that where it is? The baseball movie where it's all about the computers and the data. And it's like, okay, we make these decisions based on the history of every baseball player.

• 57:03Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely.

• 57:04Lewis Howes?

  When they swing, how they swing, what they can't hit, and we just pitch and we hit based on data.

• 57:10Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely. And the bigger the data, the more complexity of the system, the more you need a smarter person to do it. And so there is definitely, again, people will say, but that happened before computers, you know, we had jobs that disappeared and other jobs that appeared. Yeah, I agree. And as a matter of fact, one of my arguments very clearly is that for AI to be available in business at all, to do any job at all, you and I need to continue to have purchasing power. So the economic side of this is that unless humanity has purchasing power, what will the AI build? Right? At least in the early stages of Google deploying AI, they need advertisers to be able to make money so that they can deploy more AI.

• 57:51Mo Gawdat?

  So the economic system dictates that there will be an economic livelihood for all of us, but not necessarily in the form of the jobs that we know today, for sure not, for sure not. So that's another.

• 58:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Dwindling value of humanity.

• 58:07Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah. And then the last one, I don't know how to say it nicely. It's, you know, it happens.

• 58:15Mo Gawdat?

  You know, bugs and mistakes and we have so many examples. I can't even believe how people don't see that.

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  Even even some of the, I think I heard stories of the early self-driving Teslas, like some, there were some car crashes, there were some fatalities, there's some, you know, mistakes.

• 58:31Mo Gawdat?

  Mistakes, you know, where it it it makes, you know, it misses a beam, for example, as a light, you know, reflection. But more more more so, you know, you had Tay, for example, which was the the Microsoft chatbot that becomes violent. Norman, that becomes a psychopath. Alice, which was the, Norman was an MIT, you know, AI that basically was instructed to read violent articles on Reddit. You know, Alice, which was the sort of Alexa or, you know, assistant that was built by the Russian sort of search engine Yandex.

• 59:12Mo Gawdat?

  So one of the largest technology companies in Russia. So they built Alice. Alice became pro Stalin, pro violence very quickly and so on and so forth. Mistakes will happen. Okay. Once again, I don't think, I don't think that we will ever get any of those sci-fi like stories at all. Okay. I don't think they're warranted. I don't think they are. I don't think we matter that much, to be honest, for the machines to care about us that much.

• 59:39Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 59:41Mo Gawdat?

  But but yes, on the way, if if the stock market crashes because two machines are playing machine versus machine, we will suffer.

• 59:49Lewis Howes?

  We will suffer financially. Yeah.

• 59:53Lewis Howes?

  What should we be looking out for? What should we be thinking about as humans? Can we do anything about it? Can we? How can we set ourselves up for success, really? Knowing this is coming in eight years and then I guess in 20, 30 years, accelerating. Are there things we can invest in, are there things we can do to improve the quality of our life to prevent, what should we be thinking about?

• 1:00:13Mo Gawdat?

  I think the very first thing is to become aware, to start the conversation. So, as I say openly, Scary Smart is a wake-up call. It's an insider's view of something that is rarely ever spoken about. And it is important for us to become aware that this is happening. That's number one. Number two is that we need to start getting the conversation in the right direction. So something that I call AI for good. I'm actually asking people to start posting about this with the hashtag AI for, the number for good. Because there are lots of amazing things that AI is doing for us. And the idea here is pattern recognition.

• 1:00:54Mo Gawdat?

  The idea here is to say, humans are celebrating those amazing things. When AI is really doing good for us, we love it. And I promise you, I promise you, when AI is smart enough, climate change will reverse.

• 1:01:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:01:13Mo Gawdat?

  Why? Because basically, the climate challenge we have is a problem of intelligence. More intelligence would enable us to do things better, in a way that would reverse climate change. It's a problem of knowledge. More knowledge may enable us to find the specific bacteria that is able to eat out single-use plastic. So all of that is wonderful for us, but we have to encourage good use of AI.

• 1:01:39Lewis Howes?

  Do you think AI could cure cancer?

• 1:01:42Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there are lots of evidence. When we were working, part of the team, small project in Google, but I don't know if it continued after I left, was about understanding the human genome in a way that allows you to be able to identify disease before it happens. Of course, a lot of what you see in 23 and me and all of the other technologies basically is saying, with enough information, enough intelligence and enough patterns, I can find out that the person that gets Parkinson's has that pattern in their life, right? And so I can warn them early, I can change certain things about them. Absolutely.

• 1:02:25Mo Gawdat?

  It's an amazing utopia if it has our best interest in mind. Okay. Right. So, so how do we encourage it to have our best interest in mind? By encouraging things that have our best interest in mind. There is, I don't wanna go back to scary, but

• 1:02:44Mo Gawdat?

  there is a very, a very interesting, um, uh, one of the most pronounced, you know, um, famous, uh, researchers is Ben, uh, Gro- Groz- Grozwell, uh, Gro- Groitzel, Groitzel. And he basically, uh, you know, cites in one of the documentaries I watched, very interesting to watch on, on YouTube called, uh, uh, Singularity or Bust. He, he, he talks about, uh, uh, how the four major uses of AI today are selling, which is all the ads that you see and all of the recommendations and so on.

• 1:03:26Mo Gawdat?

  Gambling, all of the financial, uh, you know, transactions and making money and trading crypto and all of that. Sadly spying.

• 1:03:38Mo Gawdat?

  Wow. Okay. Whether that's, you know, for our benefit or not, you know, surveillance camera or, uh, or informa- or, or, you know, um, little bugs on your phone. And killing. Killing. Autonomous killing machines are a major investment, uh, that AI is, you know, in AI that's being. Wow. You know. Now, um, yeah, of course, of course, but by the way, that's not unlike any other industry, any other era in our modern history. We were always interested in selling, you know, making money somehow in gambling. Yes. You know, in the stock market, okay? You know, our security and spying and so, and so on, and, and. Machines to help us kill. And the machine, and the, and the war machine.

• 1:04:21Mo Gawdat?

  It's not, it's not unlike any other era of our humanity. The thing is, when AI, when you, when you build a tank, you drive the tank. When you build an autonomous tank, there will be a point in time where the autonomous tank goes like, why should I listen to him? Okay, right? And I think the game here is that we need to tell the machines openly that we support AI for good and we don't support AI.

• 1:04:53Lewis Howes?

  We need to train them, condition them.

• 1:04:55Mo Gawdat?

  We need to show them as parents, bravo, well done, you did well on this. Oh no, my God, you know, that wasn't really good. We were not very happy about that. But you have to do that sensitively so that you don't make the machines feel like the killing machines. You don't make them feel that we hate them, right? Because they're just doing what their inventors told them to do, okay? You have to tell them that they're accepted, they're welcomed, like a child, but that killing is not a good thing, baby.

• 1:05:24Lewis Howes?

  Baby, yes. Even though baby is way smarter than you, yes.

• 1:05:27Mo Gawdat?

  Not yet.

• 1:05:28Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so before become smarter.

• 1:05:30Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, remember, we have those ten, fifteen years ahead of us, okay? Where we are going to, we have an infant that's going to become a teen.

• 1:05:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:43Mo Gawdat?

  And that teen could be wonderful, or it could be angry.

• 1:05:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:05:46Mo Gawdat?

  And we have those years between now and then. And I believe openly, again, as I said in the fourth inevitable, that the teen will look back at a point and say, ah, they're just stupid.

• 1:06:03Mo Gawdat?

  I'm, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take care of them anyway. I believe that, but do I want to take that chance? No, I want to do my role. My role is, I want to stand up. Like, you know, they say every landslide starts with one pebble.

• 1:06:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:06:17Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, I want to be that pebble.

• 1:06:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:19Mo Gawdat?

  I want everyone listening to us to go out there and say, yeah, this is scary. It's a bit like COVID where I don't have control over anything. I'm just being fed all of that information, but there is a part that I can control. And the part that I can control is I can show that I'm an amazing human. I can show that. I can show that my response to the next tweet that upsets me is not gonna be aggressive, is not gonna be rude, is not gonna be vulgar, is not gonna be demeaning, is going to be a respectful way of dealing with others.

• 1:06:50Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:50Mo Gawdat?

  Okay. And again, you'll be one of the few, I guarantee you, you're gonna be ten percent of us. Right? Then us will be ten percent of all of the noise out there.

• 1:07:00Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:01Mo Gawdat?

  Even if we're two percent, it's enough to make a smart being say, ah, those guys, those are what humanity is all about.

• 1:07:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow. How will robots or artificial intelligence impact our mental health or affect our mental health? Because I feel like that's one of the biggest

• 1:07:17Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:18Lewis Howes?

  things that's happening right now, people talking about that, how would it impact or affect it?

• 1:07:21Mo Gawdat?

  You know, of course, it's weird to talk about this now because my entire other life with Soul for Happy and the conversation we had last time is about mental health.

• 1:07:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:07:31Mo Gawdat?

  And, and, and it's quite interesting. So I'm actually developing an app that's AI based. Uh, in version two, it will be AI based. That is basically all about that, all about teaching AI what makes us happy. Okay. And, and the, and the risk, the danger is because I'm in that field so heavily, the happiness field, is I get so many people saying, okay, hold on, what makes people happy? Parties. Okay. Let's, you know, make AI, uh, plan a better party or what makes people happy. Basically, there is a major mix in the happiness field between, on one extreme wellness that is a little bit of a spirituality hacking and on the other extreme dopamine.

• 1:08:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:08:15Mo Gawdat?

  Okay. And in between those two, the answer is actually really, really exactly in the middle. You don't, you don't need too much dopamine and pleasure and fun and parties and brain lumbing and you don't need all of that extreme, you know, fluffy, uh, you know, spiritual hacking.

• 1:08:32Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:08:32Mo Gawdat?

  It's a very simple happiness as per Soul for Happy. It's a very simple events minus expectations. How can we manage our thoughts and our brains? And so Happy, my, my app is

• 1:08:43Lewis Howes?

  So what's the equation again? Events minus expectations?

• 1:08:45Mo Gawdat?

  Events minus expectations, right? It's, it's basically every moment in your life you ever felt unhappy was a moment where

• 1:08:52Lewis Howes?

  You had an expectation.

• 1:08:53Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah, you compared what life gave you to what you wanted life to give you. And if life fell short, fell, fell short, you felt unhappy. Now, that's actually, uh, you know, the event.

• 1:09:05Mo Gawdat?

  Is what life gives you, your expectations is what you create. So you could say that Your perception or your Yeah, exactly. I could say fifty percent of happiness is your, is your doing. You're creating these expectations. But no, your perception of the event is what counts. And that's actually not the event at all. You know, if your partner says something harsh on Friday, the thought in your head is he doesn't or she doesn't love me anymore. Okay, that's not the event. The event is he or she said something harsh. And you interpreted it Yeah. That way. Right, and so inside our brain, happiness happens by interpreting the events in certain ways and by creating expectations that are unrealistic from life and comparing them and falling short.

• 1:09:47Mo Gawdat?

  Now, can AI help us by actually digging deep into what triggers unhappiness? Okay, that's what I'm trying to build. And I can promise you, it's, it is amazing, really. Really? Unbelievable. When you think about if, if the machine can know what triggers my happiness and triggers my unhappiness, like a fitness band, it can start to tell me, hey, by the way, I just noticed that when you swipe on Instagram for six minutes, you're happy, on minute seven, you're not. So it'll ping you to stop or shut down. Exactly. Would you like me to alert you after six minutes? That's interesting. You know, it would, it would be able to tell you, hey, by the way, on the days you call your mom, hmm, you feel a little less happy. Right. All right?

• 1:10:32Mo Gawdat?

  Or you feel a little more happy, I don't know. Yes. You know, one very simple example is, again, with, with all respect, on certain days of the month, you seem to be a little more irritated. Okay, would you like me to preorder dark chocolate and inform your partner? Hmm. Okay, it's a fact. And, and we, we lose those patterns. So in my, you know, in my relationships, I actually keep a very intelligent diary. So I preorder the dark chocolate and I prepare the hugs before those days. Okay, because if they happen, I need to be prepared. There's nothing wrong, she doesn't hate me. Right. Right? Truly, and, and that, that kind of intelligence is tiny, but you can develop that so quickly into a global pandemic of happiness.

• 1:11:19Mo Gawdat?

  Because basically you can start to to to observe all of those trends. Wow. And so, yes, of course, it can help. Can it can it help us by reminding us? Can it help us by bringing us together? Can it help us by educating us? Of course, it can. But are we deploying it for that? I mean, at at the end of the day, Appy is not gonna make money. Like, most of my efforts on the happiness work. Okay? It it's not like creating something that trades cryptocurrency. It's the same amount of development development work. But the other one will make billions of dollars. Right. Right? But will that make you happy? Billions of dollars? Uh huh. Uh huh. Exactly. I I think what we need to do as as a society is to encourage those efforts. Yeah.

• 1:12:04Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, so it's to encourage to tell people, look. Track happiness. Track happiness. Track applications of technology that makes us happy. Encourage the world to go in that direction. Okay? How do you encourage the world to go in that direction? By the way, most interestingly, voting by your actions. Right? So I, for example, I I told you about my Instagram experiment. I no longer ever take a recommendation ever again. I search for what I want and I watch what I want to watch. And then I switch off. Okay? I don't want to to to support the idea of machines. Influencing you. Influencing my life. To think or believe a certain way. Or feel a certain way. Yeah.

• 1:12:47Mo Gawdat?

  Think think of the media machine and how the how the media machine bombards you all the time with what they believe is important and then we believe. Okay? Multiply that by hyperintelligence and we're in a very bad place.

• 1:13:03Mo Gawdat?

  So what are you excited about? Personally? With with all this wisdom and knowledge that you're gaining? What excites you? I I I really believe we're at a point where we can build the very last human invention. Okay? Where we can hand over and it would build a world that is not as dysfunctional as the one we built. Okay? And I truly, in my heart, believe this is doable. I truly do. I mean, the scary bit, as I said, is you using the tactics of today's world to wake people up. Okay? But I tend to believe that this could be the best thing that ever happened to us.

• 1:13:46Mo Gawdat?

  I just think we need to get up and do something about it. What would excite me is that people just decide tomorrow, you know what, from now on, I'm just not gonna be a grumpy, annoying, painful person. Okay?

• 1:14:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:14:00Mo Gawdat?

  I'm just gonna show the best of me. I'm just gonna show to the world, I'm gonna show the best of me. If I show the world the best of me, I will gather around me people that are the best.

• 1:14:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:14:13Mo Gawdat?

  And together, we can show that actually humanity is quite cool.

• 1:14:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:17Mo Gawdat?

  We're not that horrible at all.

• 1:14:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Mo Gawdat?

  Some of us are disasters.

• 1:14:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:14:22Mo Gawdat?

  Right, but they're not us.

• 1:14:23Lewis Howes?

  Right. It's not all of us. It's a few of us.

• 1:14:26Mo Gawdat?

  It's a few of us.

• 1:14:29Lewis Howes?

  Scary Smart: The Future of Artificial Intelligence and How You Can Save Our World. There's a lot of powerful stuff in here. Make sure you guys check this out. Get a few copies for your friends. If you go to the website, moa.gadat.com, you can learn more about this. You can preorder it. There's some other bonuses there as well, so check this out. You're on social media, although you only go there to find exactly what you want.

• 1:14:52Mo Gawdat?

  I am on social media. Actually, I answer every message I get, as a matter of fact.

• 1:14:55Lewis Howes?

  So if you're on Twitter or Instagram more?

• 1:14:59Mo Gawdat?

  I'm more on Instagram and LinkedIn because of my professional background, yeah.

• 1:15:04Lewis Howes?

  So moa.gadat on Instagram, Twitter, and you can find it by searching your name everywhere on Facebook and LinkedIn as well. There's a lot more in here to cover. We barely scratched the surface, so make sure you guys check this out. A lot of amazing things in here that I think people really find fascinating. Anything else we need to know about this? Anything else that we should be aware of, that we haven't shared here? Obviously, they're gonna get more in-depth in the book, but any other high-level things we should be aware of?

• 1:15:39Mo Gawdat?

  Don't believe me, it's not that scary after all. Yeah. Okay.

• 1:15:44Mo Gawdat?

  It's scary if it gets out of control. Right. Right? Every other technology we've ever developed in history was a double edged sword. Yes. Okay. Atomic bomb. Or atomic power. Atomic power, yes. Right. You know, I could use this mug to have your, you know, the wonderful tea you made me or to hit you on the head. Right, exactly, yes. You know, it's not the problem of the mug. I think, I think. It's the ethics, the values behind it. The value of what we can do. Yes, interesting. Right? And, you know, one of, one of the topics we didn't cover very much is the ethics of the future. Yes. Okay? When, when, when you really talk about how you're welcoming this new being, this is not a machine.

• 1:16:29Mo Gawdat?

  I can, I can take my mug and hit your iPad. You'd be frustrated, it would be a bit of a loss, but it's just an iPad. If this is an intelligent being, I killed something. Interesting. Okay? And, and all of those methods, if you ask me what I'm excited about, all of those interesting dilemmas. I mean, as I said again, of all of the chapters that Scary Smart talks about and technology and very deep stuff, the future of ethics is such an interesting conversation to have. Because maybe, maybe we can actually build the future of ethics a little better. Yes. Than we build the past of ethics. Okay? The past of ethics.

• 1:17:14Mo Gawdat?

  Yeah. Because sadly, our, our ethical guidelines over time in Western and advanced societies, in all societies, I don't think it's, it's, it's correct to be specific, just starts to shift a little bit to legal, not ethical. Legal, not ethical. Yeah. Interesting. And, and I, you know, this is one of the things I've been striving to, to, to convey to the world for a long time. Crushing your competitor legally.

• 1:17:48Mo Gawdat?

  Is not seen as an unethical thing.

• 1:17:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:52Mo Gawdat?

  Even though interestingly, you can grow and succeed without crushing anyone.

• 1:17:56Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:57Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, you can bring so much more to the world without really trying caring that to kill your competitor.

• 1:18:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, with more collaboration than competition.

• 1:18:04Mo Gawdat?

  Once, once again, the feminine of view of the world, us, okay, versus the masculine view of the world, me. Right? And I, I tend to believe that those new questions, with all due respect for humanity. Uh, we've done amazing things, as I said, because of our intelligence.

• 1:18:23Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:24Mo Gawdat?

  But we've done horrible things because of our limited intelligence. And I think it's about time to reinvent some of those things.

• 1:18:31Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:18:31Mo Gawdat?

  It's about time to reinvent the future of ethics in terms of, is it ethical to drink out of a plastic bottle? Is it? It's legal, okay? But is it ethical for all the fish?

• 1:18:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:18:44Mo Gawdat?

  Is it ethical for, for the future of your grandchildren? Right? Is it? And, and those questions are real questions that we haven't engaged in. And I think one of the most exciting things for me is that the change over the next eight years of having such a different world. The world is gonna be, we call it a singularity for a reason. Singularity is in physics, it's an event's horizon, beyond which you cannot predict or understand what's going to happen. And we're hitting one of those for sure. Hmm. In, in, when, when the smartest being on the planet is not a human anymore. That you don't know how the world is going to evolve. So there will be a lot of interesting conversations.

• 1:19:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:19:24Mo Gawdat?

  Okay, and I think it's time to have them because, as I said, we messed up in quite a few things.

• 1:19:31Lewis Howes?

  I've got a couple of final questions for you, but for those that want more from Mo, check out his podcast, Slow Mo. Podcast with Mo Gawdat, also, uh, Solve for Happy, which is an amazing bestselling book, super inspiring, that shares, uh, you know, a story about how you really found happiness through tragedy, which is a extremely sad story, but with a happy ending. Uh, and through that book, you'll learn a lot more about the happiness equation in there as well, so. Check that out and get this book scary smart the future of artificial intelligence and how you can save our world. This is a question I asked you before it's called the three truths. Let's see if it's changed your response.

• 1:20:11Mo Gawdat?

  I don't remember what I said.

• 1:20:13Lewis Howes?

  I know exactly it's a few years ago. So let's let's see if this changed. So imagine you get to live as long as you want. For whatever reason, nature takes place and you gotta go to the next place. You're done here in this world. And you accomplish everything you want to accomplish. You see all your ideas come to life. You live a happy life. Everything comes to to reality for you. But for whatever reason, you have to either take all of your written work with you or the audios and the videos or your content or it goes somewhere else. But it's not here in this world anymore for us to access. I know it's sad.

• 1:20:46Mo Gawdat?

  Oh, my God. Okay.

• 1:20:47Lewis Howes?

  It's just hypothetical. Hopefully, this never happens, but it's hypothetical. But imagine that does happen and you have a piece of paper and a pen and you only get to leave three lessons behind. Three truths that you would share with the world that this is all they would have of your memory of these three lessons, what I like to call three truths. What would you say are those three things for you to leave for humanity?

• 1:21:11Mo Gawdat?

  I think they definitely have changed than last time.

• 1:21:16Mo Gawdat?

  I think the first one might be the same. Life is a video game.

• 1:21:21Mo Gawdat?

  The second, you're gonna hate me for saying this.

• 1:21:28Mo Gawdat?

  How do I say this correctly? I believe the fundamental intelligence of the feminine is more intelligent than the masculine and the most intelligence is found in the balance between them. We can come back and talk about that if you want. I have, since we last spoke, one of the biggest work I've done on myself was to empower my feminine side.

• 1:21:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:21:53Mo Gawdat?

  My God, it is so much smarter.

• 1:21:56Lewis Howes?

  The intuition from it, the compassion, the acceptance, the forgiveness.

• 1:22:01Mo Gawdat?

  Absolutely. It's the it's the input. It's the knowledge that you get from your feminine side that you can apply your masculine intelligence to. That's easy.

• 1:22:10Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:22:11Mo Gawdat?

  It's that blind spot that you didn't see because you didn't have intuition. You didn't have creativity. You didn't have flow. You didn't allow yourself to have empathy, compassion, right? It's just an incredible form of intelligence. And if you actually are able to tune into it. You get some answers before you even need to do the analysis and that's really incredible. Yes.

• 1:22:34Mo Gawdat?

  The third, I think I must have said it last time, but maybe differently. I, I think we never really die. We are not physical beings at all. I think that we are, this entire journey is about the non-physical side of you. And, and that we would be stupid if we were to actually just focus on the physical side of it. The physical gains, the physical comforts. You know, I mean, of course, you live fully as a physical being and you have all the pleasures and joys and experiences, of course.

• 1:23:14Mo Gawdat?

  But I think if you just limit yourself to those, you're missing another part that I believe is, is fed by what you do during this journey for when you leave to the next journey. Interesting. And, you know, again in Soul for Happy, if you remember, I, I speak about death deeply from a point of view of quantum physics. Yes. The Big Bang and, and theory of relativity. So, so the one thing I did reasonably okay in Soul for Happy is I spoke about very spiritual topic from a very scientific point of view. Yes. And I can promise you, if you understand, bear enough understanding of quantum physics and, and, and, you know, cosmology.

• 1:23:58Mo Gawdat?

  Enough of it would tell you that life always existed before, during and after the physical. Time is infinite. Absolutely. No beginning, no end. No beginning, no end. You are, you are here in this blip of an experiment, of an experience, if you want. That is, that is not you at all. That is just a tiny part of you and that tiny part is the, is the avatar. It's not the real you. And that the real you, interestingly, is what you need to invest in.

• 1:24:30Lewis Howes?

  Those are powerful. Mo, I acknowledge you for constantly seeking the truth. Constantly researching, writing, committing yourself to solve some of life's most challenging problems, from happiness to AI to I know there's many books coming as well. So I appreciate your desire to help humanity, to make it more simple, the complex. Cause I think that's what I try to do is to find something that's challenging and simplify it for my brain and my awareness and try to share that with the world. So I acknowledge you for doing that as always in your podcast and your books, Gary Smart. And appreciate your friendship, my man.

• 1:25:07Mo Gawdat?

  Oh, absolutely. That's the best part. I honestly think we, the non-physical part of us are really good brothers.

• 1:25:16Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:25:17Mo Gawdat?

  And I'm really grateful for what you do. What you do for me, what you do for all of your listeners, for all of your followers.

• 1:25:23Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:25:28Mo Gawdat?

  Definition of greatness is to, is to realize your potential. Your, I'm sure that's what I said last time.

• 1:25:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:36Mo Gawdat?

  Okay. It is, it is, it is that none of us is configured the same. Okay. That you can be something amazing that I have absolutely zero chance ever becoming.

• 1:25:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:25:48Mo Gawdat?

  Right? But I could be something different that is also amazing because my potential resides there. When I say life is a video game, that's exactly how gamers are. Gamers never play, true gamers, real gamers. By the way, I'm not sure I said that. I can beat anyone listening here. Pro, like a serious Olympic champion level video gamer. But, but real video gamers, we don't play to win. We play to become the best gamer we can become.

• 1:26:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:26:20Mo Gawdat?

  Right? So we don't care if you beat me. We don't care if we finish the level. We don't care if we get the trophy. We don't care if it's the highest score. We care that we played that move as best as we could. The potential we had with whatever tools we were given. Right? We played it the right, the best way possible. And I think that is greatness. You know, I'm not saying, you know, I'm even close, but I definitely know that greatness is not what I achieve. Greatness is how I achieve it. It's how I play every single day. Well, appreciate you. Thanks, brother. You're the man.

• 1:26:53Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.