How To Break Free From Financial Anxiety & Create Wealth

I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person! Get my new book Make Money Easy here! Money blocks aren't just financial—they're deeply psychological. In this transformative episode, I sit down with powerhouse entrepreneurs Rachel Rodgers, Anthony O'Neal, and Mark Matson who reveal how our earliest money experiences create invisible "screens" that dictate our financial decisions. Rachel shares her journey from law school to eight-figure business owner, explaining how she challenges the "money is evil" narrative that holds many people back. Anthony delivers a tactical blueprint for climbing out of debt by casting vision before budgeting, while Mark vulnerably unpacks how his coal-mining grandfather's poverty mindset contrasted with his father's entrepreneurial spirit. You'll discover why millionaires are often unhappy despite their wealth, how to overcome imposter syndrome in high-achieving environments, and the unexpected connection between your purpose and financial abundance. In this episode you will learn:How to systematically challenge limiting money beliefs by collecting evidence that proves the oppositeWhy managing your emotions is crucial for making sound financial decisionsThe five-step tactical blueprint for going from broke and in debt to financial freedomHow to create an entrepreneurial mindset without necessarily becoming an entrepreneurWhy consistency and showing up daily is more important than talent in building wealthThe "destructive cycle of wealth" that prevents even millionaires from finding happinessHow to cultivate an abundant mindset even when your bank account doesn't reflect it yetWhy your purpose must be greater than money to experience true financial fulfillmentThe importance of surrounding yourself with people who believe in you to build confidenceFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1745For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Rachel Rodgers – greatness.lnk.to/1183SCAnthony O’Neal – greatness.lnk.to/1738SCMark Matson – greatness.lnk.to/1675SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  There are two big things happening at one time that I've never done before. I'm going on a book tour for my new book, Make Money Easy, and I'm doing a podcast tour at the same time. It is going to be big and I'm going to seven cities in 10 days. Get your friends, get your family, bring everyone you know to these cities. I'm coming to Austin, Texas, New York, Boston. Then we're going to Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco. Make sure to get your tickets right now. Go to lewishouse.com/tour. Again, bring everyone you know. If you're looking to create more financial freedom and abundance in your life and you want to see a massive guest live on the School of Greatness show, get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there.

• 0:50Lewis Howes?

  If someone wasn't raised around the language of money and they weren't in an environment or household that spoke about it in a good way, maybe they said money, you know, rich people are mean or bad people. Or their parents always got angry when they saw someone who had money on TV and associated wealth with a bad person.

• 1:12Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  How do they break that mindset that not all wealthy people are bad people?

• 1:17Rachel Rodgers?

  Yeah. Well, challenge that belief, right? The way that we change our thinking is to challenge those beliefs. So like, literally write down the thing that you believe and then, you know, write down all the evidence that you can collect that tells you the opposite. Like, that's how we change our mindset, right? You know, so if I'm telling myself I'm not smart, I can collect all the evidence, well, I graduated from law school. I graduated from undergrad, summa cum laude, right? Like, actually, there's evidence that I am smart. You know what I mean? Let me point that out. So I think it's the-

• 1:50Lewis Howes?

  So it's being a lawyer of your life, of that belief system.

• 1:53Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly.

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  Which is something you understand.

• 1:55Rachel Rodgers?

  Collect evidence to prove what you want to believe, right? And see if you can find out that it's true. Maybe it won't be, but you probably will find that it is. Because a lot of our thinking, it's just like- It's just something, it's a thought that was planted there in childhood or from whatever interactions we had that are memorable moment that are, that are kind of stuck, right? And it's creating this like, this neural pathway that we just keep walking every day. We just keep saying that to ourselves. And so, the way we create a new pathway is we gotta start digging that path, right? To go a different direction. And the way you dig that path is start collecting evidence of the opposite. So, look for examples of wealthy people who aren't, you know, trash humans.

• 2:34Rachel Rodgers?

  I hope that I'm an example, right? And that there are plenty of others out there. So, you know, try to challenge those, you know, just... And I think it's just societal views. It's things that we tell ourselves. I don't know why, maybe to make ourselves feel better for not trying to go after what we want. I don't know why we do it, but we do it. And I think we can change it. And I also think there's a different pathway, right? Like, I think there are issues that we experience as people of color, as queer people, as people living with a disability or chronic illness, that other people don't have to deal with. And so, we might get advice that's like, "Oh, just do these steps, it's so easy." Right? When it's like, "Oh, but we're dealing with, I gotta take care of my mother as well." Like, I, when I make it, I also have to take care of all the family members who didn't make it, right?

• 3:19Rachel Rodgers?

  Who need help now that they're approaching retirement, right? Like, there's, there's issues that we have that typically straight white guys don't have, right? And so, that's why I focus on this audience. And it's also just who is attracted to my work as well.

• 3:33Lewis Howes?

  Right. I think it's to know your worth in general.

• 3:35Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 3:35Lewis Howes?

  And that's, that's applied to everything in life. Like, know your worth with your friends, with your family, in your partnership, with your relationship.

• 3:42Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly.

• 3:42Lewis Howes?

  Don't sell yourself short in any area of your life. And you've gotta learn to believe in yourself to do that, which goes back to step one for you.

• 3:49Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly.

• 3:49Lewis Howes?

  Surround yourself with people who've done it, and then learn to believe in yourself.

• 3:52Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly. And that's what I was getting at, is the worthiness and the confidence. I think sometimes when, you know, when, like, there is probably not a black woman in America that hasn't worked in a workplace where she felt undervalued. And when you do that for a couple of years, you start to believe that your, your value is less. And so, I think that it's important that we have confidence. It's important that we ask for the money, right? When we put ourselves out there, when we create work, that we charge for it, right? And... Demand that people recognize our value.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  What if someone doesn't want to pay it, they say, okay, I recognize the value, but that's not the value I'm willing to pay for. Cause I don't want that value, or it's not a need in my business, or whatever it might be.

• 4:31Rachel Rodgers?

  So goodbye to that person and move on to the next. Exactly. Find who your audience is. And I think, you know, you gotta have, you gotta put it out there to get those knows to be like, oh, these are my people. Let me actually write my copy or present my offer in a way that makes them go away.

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 4:44Rachel Rodgers?

  And only attracts the people that are really my people, right?

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  That makes sense.

• 4:48Rachel Rodgers?

  Yeah.

• 4:49Lewis Howes?

  And how does someone learn to feel worthy when they're broke?

• 4:53Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes. Well, you have to recognize that you are inherently worthy. I was just as valuable as I am today. You know, 15 years ago.

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  How do you believe that?

• 5:02Rachel Rodgers?

  20 years ago.

• 5:03Lewis Howes?

  When in the bank account and the relationship accounts don't show that value.

• 5:09Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes. Well, I think, again, it's environment. Starting to spend time with people who have confidence and believed in themselves and starting to, and what they saw in me. Right? Like realizing what other people see in me that I don't see in myself. And you need that reflection back, and that's why you gotta surround yourself. I mean, I have to tell you, like, I've been spending time in LA this week with, you know, black women entrepreneurs that I talk to on Twitter all the time. And like, listen, the way that they will hype you up, you know?

• 5:39Lewis Howes?

  You've got this, girl.

• 5:40Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly. We hype each other up and, and that's so important. You need that. And I've had that since I was a kid. Like I had friends who would hype me up, you know? So I think we need that in our lives and we gotta put ourselves out there. Be a friend first, right? And then you'll find that squad and you'll start to create that community around yourself. And then there's no way you can't believe it when you're surrounded by people who are constantly reflecting it back to you.

• 6:05Lewis Howes?

  I love that approach of surrounding yourself with people that will hype people up or that are inspiring, that have already done that. And I've also heard people say, when I'm in those rooms, I feel like an imposter.

• 6:15Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 6:15Lewis Howes?

  I feel like all these incredible women, you know, if I was a woman in these rooms of women, for this example, but these women have done incredible things. How am I be able to, why should I, I shouldn't be in this room? Cause they're all amazing. You know, starting to downplay my talents because they're all at a different level or have more experience or have their careers or financially successful. How does someone get over the imposter syndrome of being in the room when they are the, whatever label they want to call it, the least successful financially, the least intelligent, the least experienced, whatever they want to say to themselves.

• 6:49Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 6:50Lewis Howes?

  I shouldn't be here.

• 6:51Rachel Rodgers?

  Yeah.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  Because I don't have X. How can they overcome the imposter syndrome?

• 6:56Rachel Rodgers?

  Well, I think it's a process, right? It doesn't happen overnight. I think sometimes we think like, just think better thoughts. And it's like, that's lovely, but that's not working for me, you know? I think first of all, challenge that belief when it comes into your head. When you have that thought, oh, I'm going into this room and I'm excited about it, but I'm intimidated because I don't know that I belong there. And really, just check the receipts. Are you sure you don't belong there? Like, think about who you are as a person. What do you have to offer the world? What is the value that you bring?

• 7:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:24Rachel Rodgers?

  What do people ask you to do that, you know, is valuable, right? What do they ask you advice on? You really just start to check your own receipts to see like, really? Is that true? Because usually the people who have imposter syndrome are people who have a very long and impressive resume, right? And I wrote about it in my book, how Maya Angelou and Michelle Obama, like, these are people who have imposter syndrome, like, way far into their career, they felt like they didn't belong in certain rooms.

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 7:50Rachel Rodgers?

  Right? Exactly. It's like, what? That makes no sense. And it's true for us as well. Like, we'll think that we're not valuable, or we'll have that same imposter syndrome. And other people are like, are you crazy? Like, you're amazing. You know, like, you're bugging. So, I think.

• 8:06Lewis Howes?

  If someone's in the room, and they're, they're, they're going to remember this conversation that you shared here, and they're about to be in a room with a bunch of powerhouse, whatever, individuals.

• 8:15Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 8:15Lewis Howes?

  That they want to be around. And they're like, this is the first time I've been around this group of people. I'm terrified. I'm nervous.

• 8:21Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 8:21Lewis Howes?

  What can they remind themselves in that moment when the Oprah of their industry is talking to them, and they are potentially a nobody in that space?

• 8:30Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 8:30Lewis Howes?

  They're on their way up or whatever. What can they remind themselves?

• 8:33Rachel Rodgers?

  I would say like, ask, they should ask themselves, what do I love about myself? Right, like, I'm funny, you know, um, I'm smart, I'm strategic, you know, I have great fashion sense. Right, like, whatever it is, what is something that you love about yourself? And think about how you're bringing that energy to that room.

• 8:51Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:52Rachel Rodgers?

  Right, and just recognize that that is a lie, and it is a practice. I used to be such a mean girl to myself in my head.

• 8:58Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 8:58Rachel Rodgers?

  Every single day. I, I said that I was not smart, stupid, you know, I said that like, I can't figure this out. Um, I'm bad at business, I'm not good at making money, um, I'm not good at practicing law, which is what I did before, you know, my current business, like, I would, I would, I'm a bad mother, like, I mean, I said every cruel thing that I could possibly say.

• 9:22Lewis Howes?

  What did that do for you?

• 9:23Rachel Rodgers?

  Um, I mean, it made me feel bad, right, like, it made me feel bad and it made me wanna go get under the covers for three days, and sometimes I did, right, and then I would get my ass back up and go back, go back to work, because I had to, because I had kids to support, but I would do that too. And what helped is meeting women who believe in themselves and just being around that energy. They, it's just like, that energy's gonna bring you along. Because I think sometimes we think like, oh, I have to do all of this in my head, and once I fix it in my head, then I can go be around people. No, no, no, you need to go be around people, because that's what's gonna fix it, you know? Being in that environment, our community, our environment, it affects us so much.

• 9:59Lewis Howes?

  It does.

• 10:00Rachel Rodgers?

  So, it's so crucially important to be surrounded by positive people who believe in possibility, you know? So, that's what I would say, and when I go into, into rooms, like, I go into intimidating rooms all the time, and I think now, I just think like, I'm just gonna be myself. And if myself isn't good enough in this room, then I don't wanna be in this room.

• 10:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 10:20Rachel Rodgers?

  Next, you know?

• 10:22Lewis Howes?

  Next room, next room. And do you think money buys us happiness?

• 10:27Rachel Rodgers?

  No, I think, but I think it buys a roof over your head, which is happiness, right? Like, so, you know, sometimes people, when people talk about like, money doesn't matter, or whatever, I'm not beholden to money, or they think it's a moral high ground to act like, I don't care about money, right? So like, you feel better about yourself, because you don't care about money, and your nose is in there, because you don't care about money. I'm just like, this is a person who has never been poor, you know? Like, this is a person who is not aware of the real... Economic situation for so many people. And I think if you are aware of that, then you recognize that money is a powerful tool that enables you to take care of and feed your children, that enables you to house yourself,

• 11:08Rachel Rodgers?

  right? Like, just like the baseline, I have been in a place for many years, my family was, and then I was as a young adult, where like, I, you know, my, like, electric went out, right? And we didn't have lights for a week until my mom got paid again. Or where, you know, we didn't have food, or we were on food stamps and I'd be embarrassed to use it and there's only certain things we could buy with it, right? Like, I've had that real financial insecurity and I think anybody who has had that understands that money is very important. Like, the idea that it's not important is complete nonsense, you know? And it's like, that's the reason you're telling yourself that. I would love to coach that person and dig into, why are you telling yourself, why do you have that

• 11:49Rachel Rodgers?

  story? What is it doing for you? Right? Because the reality is, is that money is an important tool in the way that our society is organized today. And so, we need it and, you know, we need to learn how to get it. And that's exactly why I do what I do, to teach people how to get it and show them that it is possible for you to create it on your own, you know? But yes, this idea that like, you know, money's not important, or whatever, money is for bad people, I'm like, look, money pays the bills. Okay? Like, let's get back to basics here, alright? I think y'all are forgetting something. And then, once you have that baseline level of security, you can decide, do I want more? And if I do, how much more? And here's what I say all the time, you know, when people are like, well, how much is enough, right? You're a millionaire, or your business is making X amount of money, like, isn't that

• 12:34Rachel Rodgers?

  enough? Why do you still strive for more? And I tell them, because I am black. Because there is a huge wealth chasm in this country, and as long as my people need money, I'm going, and I'm good at earning it, I'm gonna keep earning it, and then put it where I think it belongs. Right? So, there's a certain amount of security I want for myself and my children, and frankly, I feel like I have that at this stage. So, I've done that part. So, it's like, check. And so, now the next thing to do is, how can I spread it around?

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Rachel Rodgers?

  You know, like, how can I have it be making change for people and change people's lives? Because I recognize, money changes lives. And so, I think it's important to just recognize, money isn't, is neutral. It's not positive or negative, it's a tool, and it's how we use that tool that determines whether something bad happens, or something evil happens, or if you have a positive goal with it.

• 13:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Have you, have you met a lot of? Uh, millionaires who are unhappy.

• 13:28Rachel Rodgers?

  I've met millionaires who are unhappy, um, and I know plenty of happy ones.

• 13:35Rachel Rodgers?

  I think there's both and I think it's like, I mean, here's the benefit, right? If you're a millionaire and you're unhappy, you could probably go purchase some therapy. You can maybe go to a retreat, right? Like you can spend some money.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  Take some time off.

• 13:47Rachel Rodgers?

  Right. You can spend some money on figuring out how to solve that problem. Um, I don't think it's money in itself that's making them miserable.

• 13:54Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:55Rachel Rodgers?

  You know, maybe it could be, but maybe it's just because they're choosing to make it their master instead of really leading their own lives and directing their own lives. Like you were saying, right? Like living in LA, right? Everybody's got a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or something and you got a scooter.

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  I drive a scooter, scoot down the street with a smile on my face, wave at the guys in the Ferrari. Like, I want what that guy has, you know, it's like.

• 14:15Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes, but see, that's where we get into trouble is if we're like, oh, because somebody else has it, I have to have it. It's like, do you want it? Is that something that you even care about?

• 14:24Lewis Howes?

  I think want, want something because you want it, not because you're trying to impress someone else or show off or keep up. Yeah, or, or because your friends have it, you're supposed to buy it.

• 14:34Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 14:35Lewis Howes?

  You have, uh, four kids, right?

• 14:37Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 14:37Lewis Howes?

  Four kids. What are the, uh, the main themes that you teach your kids about money from all these different age ranges? You know, if you could share three things that you teach them consistently at home?

• 14:49Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 14:50Lewis Howes?

  Whether it be a simple or, you know, profound principle, what are those three things that you talk about on a consistent basis with all of them?

• 14:57Rachel Rodgers?

  Well, I te- I like to teach them about consistency, which I think is about money.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  It's huge.

• 15:02Rachel Rodgers?

  Yeah, like you gotta show up and you gotta do this every day. And it's like, you did it for five days and they're like, well, I did it for five days. Why can't I get credit for that? And it's like, that's great, but this is the kind of thing where you gotta show up. So teaching them really about habits and about like having a work ethic. If you want something, are you willing to put some sweat equity into it so you can have it? And so, teaching them that, I think, is a core money principle.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:27Rachel Rodgers?

  And then I also teach them about business. I teach them about entrepreneurship, that you can create a business and sell anything and, you know, make money from your own creative ideas. So I want them to learn that. So my daughter is always like making books, or she's making like little gifts for people for their birthdays and she's an artist. And I want to teach her to value her art. This beautiful thing that you created, we can hang it on the wall and that adds value to people's lives. So you can charge for that. So just having those conversations and showing them even things that they're creating now have value.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 15:59Rachel Rodgers?

  Or things that they're willing to do. Like my son is like very techie, so I'm like, oh, the remote's not working. My eight-year-old, and he's been doing this since he was six, he's like, "Mom, just give it to me." And he like fixes it all. So, you know, he has that natural skill. Like, it's obviously a natural skill. Who taught him? I didn't teach him nothing. I don't even know how to do it. Maybe he learned by watching my husband, I don't know, but, you know, I want him to see that like, oh, your ability to come in and fix that for somebody who doesn't know how, that adds value. That's something you could charge for if you wanted to in the future. So like, teaching them that and asking them to do things and telling them like, you know, "If you do X, Y, Z, I will pay you." So I negotiate a lot with them.

• 16:40Rachel Rodgers?

  So, you know, it's like, we did this family photo shoot recently and my son absolutely hates taking photos. He hates getting dressed up. He hates the whole production of it. And so I'm like, "Okay, so you do this for mommy and you make sure you smile in all of the pictures." And you have to like not like untuck your shirt and do all those things. And if you do all of that, then I'm going to allow you to play video games tonight for two hours on a weekday.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 17:06Rachel Rodgers?

  So like, "Deal." And then we shake hands. And then there are times where he tries to go back on the deal, you know? And he makes deals with his sister too. And like he'll try to go back on it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. If you make a deal, you have to stick to it, you know? So making sure that he understands that if you say, if you give your word on something, you have to back that up.

• 17:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 17:25Rachel Rodgers?

  Um, so, so teaching them that, I guess, is another part of the, the money story. And I like them to just, it's so funny. My husband and I will go for walks or whatever, and we'll be talking about business. My husband's a CFO. Um, and so we're having business conversations, and my daughter's hanging out with us, listening in, and my husband's like, yep, you stay right there and listen to all of this, you know? Soak it in. Um, so teaching her just about like the different strategies that we, we try and, you know, marketing moves we're making, or whatever, different investments that we're making and why we're doing it, um, and explaining that to her, willing to have that conversation, you know, like, we bought a beach house. Let's talk about how, you know, we're only gonna use it for the summer, but we're gonna rent it out during the other parts of the year, and that's gonna

• 18:10Rachel Rodgers?

  cover the cost of what we're paying for the summer, or like what we're paying for it all year long. Um, so this is the strategy, and explaining it to her, so she can start to see. And it's like, it's repetition, right? It's us having those conversations over and over again over time. Um, and there's something about the eldest daughter, I don't know what it is, but she's gonna be running this whole empire.

• 18:30Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 18:31Rachel Rodgers?

  Can already tell.

• 18:32Lewis Howes?

  That's great. That's fun. What do you think is the difference between, um, a rich mindset and a poor mindset?

• 18:40Rachel Rodgers?

  Yeah. Well, I think it's just about seeing opportunity and feeling expansive and seeing abundance versus seeing everything as small and not possible. And like, does it cut off your opportunities, or does it create opportunity for you, you know? Um, so I think that's, that's the difference, right? And just making decisions that are going to create more abundance in your life. And sometimes it's the opposite of what personal finance people say, right? Like, personal finance people are always like, budget, budget, budget, budget is king, budget is ruler, right? Like, you are beholden to the budget, nothing else rules. Um, never go outside the budget, blah, blah, blah, right? And it's, I think it's more than that. I don't think it's just about, money is about, yes, you

• 19:24Rachel Rodgers?

  have a balance sheet, you do math. Money is math as well, but it's also feeling, right? So like the advice that's always given to women about like, don't stop buying lattes, stop buying shoes, cut coupons. It's like, that doesn't make me feel rich. That doesn't make me feel abundant or feel wealthy. It makes me feel broke if I can't afford to buy a coffee when I have a good job and I work hard every day, you know?

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 19:50Rachel Rodgers?

  Um, so what does make me, if I, but if I buy a latte every day and that makes me feel fabulous as I sit and drink my latte and think about whatever it is that I'm thinking about, when I have that feeling, I'm, I'm more likely to create things that will add value to the world and get me paid, you know?

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  You're more excited, passionate, abundant feeling.

• 20:08Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 20:09Lewis Howes?

  Energetic and that energy attracts opportunities.

• 20:12Rachel Rodgers?

  That's right.

• 20:13Lewis Howes?

  So do the things that bring you joy.

• 20:14Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes, and I'm not saying like, oh, go buy a Lamborghini, you know, if you don't have Lamborghini money, right? Um, I'm not saying do that, but like, how can you find ways to feel abundant every day? And it's not just that, it's like, you know, I was staying at a place, it was not an expensive place in Laguna a couple of weeks ago, uh, I'm sorry, a couple of days ago, and you know, it's like not a fancy room at all, but it had this gorgeous ocean view and I listened to the ocean as I fell asleep, like that is abundance, right? And I went for a run like along the beach. That was amazing and it cost me nothing to go for that run, you know what I mean? So it's like, sometimes it's just sitting outside and petting your cat and being in the sun and taking a few minutes for yourself makes you feel abundant.

• 20:57Rachel Rodgers?

  So it's not always dollars, but finding that way to just sort of attract that and to feel like spaciousness, like I have time, I have, you know, the ability, right? I, I have creativity, you have a wealth of things. And the reality is of like, if you live in the US, you have a lot more than other people around the world, right? So you are rich, right? Whether you think you are or not, living in this country, for most, most people. And so if that's the case, right? How can we start to think that way?

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  Why do we lack in perspective? You know, it's.

• 21:27Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes, I think it's, you know, all of the things that we're inundated with every day, like the different media, it might be the shows that we watch, you know, like people joke about like watching a sitcom and like somebody, you know, she's a waitress, but she has this fabulous apartment in Manhattan, it's like, really?

• 21:41Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 21:42Rachel Rodgers?

  How does that work? So I think it's sometimes the things that we expose ourselves to. And we can just choose to expose ourselves to other things, right? We can be exposed to a lot of things that tell you like, oh, you're not good enough, or you're not smart enough, or you're overweight, or you're whatever. All kinds of messages that we get every day. And so you got to curate that. You know, curate your Instagram feed, right? Curate who's in your ear. If you have somebody who, you know, if your mom or your friend from childhood is always making you feel like you're broke, stop talking to them. Talk to them. I mean, I'm not saying cut them off, but like, maybe don't be on group chat with them every day. But be on group chat with people who have that abundant thinking, right? Who are thinking expansively.

• 22:26Rachel Rodgers?

  And also, you know what makes me feel rich saying no? Makes me feel rich, like we just talked about, right? Like having boundaries and somebody asking me, do I want to do that thing? Whether it's a money thing or not, and just saying, no, I don't want to go to that party. Or no, I don't want to do that thing. And just feeling like comfortable doing that. That feels abundant, you know? And that creates more space for abundance in your life. So.

• 22:47Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. And what would you say the biggest insecurities or challenges you've faced now? At your stage, after, I guess, 13 years in business now, you know, crossing the 100,000, crossing the seven-figure mark and beyond. What's the challenge for the next level for you?

• 23:03Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes. Okay, so like, we just hit eight figures. And here's something that I just caught with myself doing is being like, well, I know how to run a seven-figure business. I don't know how to run an eight-figure business. I don't know how to run a $10 million business. And it's like, that's not true, actually. Like, maybe there are some things that I don't know about this next phase, but that doesn't mean I can't figure it out. Or, and it doesn't mean that there aren't things that I do know. So I've had to like, this is an ongoing journey, right? Where you're having to constantly correct yourself and say like, stop talking like that. Because that's actually not helping anything. So what do you know, right? What evidence do you have that you are the right leader for this organization during this next phase? You know? Because I think being a founder and an entrepreneur creating something is different than continuing

• 23:48Rachel Rodgers?

  something and continuing to scale it.

• 23:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:51Rachel Rodgers?

  And I've seen this happen with some of my peers too. Like your company gets to a certain size and you're like, should I even be CEO anymore?

• 23:58Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 23:58Rachel Rodgers?

  Maybe you shouldn't. I mean, or maybe you should, right? Maybe it's just imposter syndrome. So I think that's one of the things that I'm kind of dealing with. And I also think something that I recently went through that I feel like I'm coming out of is trusting myself with this amount of money.

• 24:13Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 24:14Rachel Rodgers?

  You know what I mean?

• 24:15Lewis Howes?

  You've never had this much money before.

• 24:16Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly.

• 24:17Lewis Howes?

  So what do I do with this much money?

• 24:19Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes, exactly.

• 24:20Lewis Howes?

  Which investments should I be spending it in? Am I spending it the right, wrong places? Interesting.

• 24:25Rachel Rodgers?

  Yeah, and I've had like, you know, you have different financial advisors that you go to or you're supposed to get advice and they tell me to do things or they don't. Here's the interesting thing. They tell me to do things that I don't want to do and then the things that I do want to do and I do get excited about investing in, they tell me not to do it. And I'm like, well, but that's the thing I want to do.

• 24:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:44Rachel Rodgers?

  And to me, it makes financial sense. And they tell me why they think I shouldn't and I'm like, still want to do it though.

• 24:51Lewis Howes?

  Can you give an example?

• 24:53Rachel Rodgers?

  Like, okay, like buying this beach house this year, right? That is something, and I bought that beach house for my family so that I was just imagining being on the beach with my kids like all summer long. And we lived, live in a landlocked area. I love water. I like being near water and so I was like, this will be absolutely amazing. And we usually go like one or two weeks, you rent, and it's so expensive. And so I'm like, why do that? We could buy something, we could rent it, and then we could use it during the summer. And it was the best summer ever.

• 25:25Lewis Howes?

  So you were there the whole summer?

• 25:27Rachel Rodgers?

  All summer long. My family came down, my friends came to visit. Beaches, beach houses attract people.

• 25:32Lewis Howes?

  Was this Florida or where is this?

• 25:35Rachel Rodgers?

  This is in North Carolina. And the beaches in North Carolina are amazing. So, you know, we've had an amazing time at this like expensive piece of. Property that my financial advisor told me absolutely do not buy, but the value in it was really like.

• 25:52Lewis Howes?

  A rich life, a rich feeling.

• 25:53Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes, that was it.

• 25:55Lewis Howes?

  Probably allows you to think bigger and expansiveness in your business.

• 25:59Rachel Rodgers?

  Totally.

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  Your family is, you know, feeling joy and love and.

• 26:03Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly. And it doesn't have to make money, right? Like I have other ways to make money. I can, if I can, and I can break even on it. So I'm like, I could have all of this amazing time with my family. And it allows me to be generous. Like one of the, um, I just invested in a startup, um, which is another thing that I was like. Feeling uncomfortable about, you know, and so, um. The founder was like just on this like big work sprint and doing so much to get this company up and running. And she was like. Going to go on a vacation. She asked me where to go in North Carolina and I was like, oh. Come stay at my beach house. And just like that, you know what I mean? Like being able to do things like that is.

• 26:42Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 26:42Rachel Rodgers?

  It's awesome. And I've done that for a couple of friends now and it just feels so good. So. I think it was worth it. It may break even. It may make me a little bit of money, but like that's okay. And I had it. I could afford it. I had the money to do it. Um, so it's just like, I've had to learn to listen to my own voice. Here's the other thing that happens to me a lot with. Financial advisors and like accountants and like all the financial people, not all of them, but most of them in my life. They all are like, well, you know, in order to do X, Y, Z, we'd need to make another million dollars or we need to do this or that or whatever. And it's like, that's not possible. We could look at that for next year or the year after. And I'm like, oh no, I'm going to go make that million right now.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  Let's go.

• 27:22Rachel Rodgers?

  You know, and they're like, that's, you know, we shouldn't be doing that. Like that's not possible, right? Like you're going to break the business, right? Like.

• 27:30Lewis Howes?

  They're too conservative.

• 27:30Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly. And I'm just, and they don't believe me. And I'm like, I want you to look at the P and L's for the last three years of this business. And then come at me again and tell me that I can't do it. Like, what are you talking about? Of course I could do it. And I'm like, here's the problem. It's happening inevitably, right? Like, we are naturally grown.

• 27:49Lewis Howes?

  It's just ramping up.

• 27:49Rachel Rodgers?

  Exactly. There's an audience there. There's more and more people interested in what we're selling. Like, it's happening anyway. And that's the other thing. We create these projections and they're like, "We're not gonna hit those projections." And I'm like, "Your projections are too low." Like, you need to go with mine. And inevitably, we always exceed it, every year. And then I'm like, it becomes a problem because you actually can't plan, right? If you're like, really undershooting. So then you grow too much. You don't have enough team to cover it, right? Like, all of those things. So, learning to trust my own instincts over all of these quote-unquote "experts." And they are experts, and they definitely advise me on different things. But when it comes to like, my own skillset and what I know I'm capable of doing, I'm just like, "Mm-mm." And there was actually somebody I fired because they just kept saying,

• 28:34Rachel Rodgers?

  "That's not possible. You know, really, you know, you should be more conservative, blah blah blah." And I'm like, "Goodbye. Get out of my ear. You're not helping me. You're not putting me in the space of..."

• 28:43Lewis Howes?

  Abundance, yeah. It's true. What was the mindset shift for you from going from seven figures to eight figures? Like, what did it take?

• 28:52Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes. Well, it took...

• 28:53Lewis Howes?

  Is it tactical? Is it mindset? Is it a team? Is it systems, processes? What was that?

• 28:58Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes. I think it's all of that. But I think a big part of it is learning how to not do and learning how to lead. That is what takes you from seven to eight. Is learning how to have a team, delegate to them, remove yourself from the day-to-day, and recognizing that the more you remove yourself from the business, the more it's going to grow. Because usually, if there's something dependent on me, I am absolutely holding it up.

• 29:24Rachel Rodgers?

  What I do, it's like, you have to keep redefining your role in a company, right? If you're the CEO, then it's like, how does your CEO role change over time? When you've hired a COO, or you've hired other leaders on your team, and you've got this team of copywriters and all kinds of people, coaches on my team, right? Like, let them do their thing, right? Learn how to get out of the way. If you've hired smart people, let them do it. So, really removing yourself and learning how to lead and have a vision and say, "Hey, y'all, here's where we're going. Here's where we're trying to go in the next three years. Let's talk about how we're gonna get there. We'll figure out the how together." And these are the goals we're gonna hit this year and then just let them go and be there to coach them and support them.

• 30:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:08Rachel Rodgers?

  You know, and help them step into their own leadership, help them solve the problems you've solved, like learning how to delegate or learning how to protect your time. Now you gotta teach them how to do that.

• 30:15Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 30:16Rachel Rodgers?

  So that's, that's what that phase was and what, what the next phase holds, I have no idea. Probably even more of that.

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  More of that, yeah.

• 30:24Rachel Rodgers?

  Yes.

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  I think debt feels daunting for a lot of people.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  It does.

• 30:32Lewis Howes?

  And if you were broke today and if you were in debt, let's say, let's say you made a bunch of challenging financial decisions.

• 30:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:40Lewis Howes?

  You made all, you know, your mistake journal is filled up to the brim.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  And you're broke and in a lot of debt.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  What is the exact process you would take then from going from broke and in debt to creating a financially free life?

• 30:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I get excited about this. All right, very first things, I'm stepping back and before I even look at my debt, I'm talking, okay, where do I want to be within the next 12 months? After 12 months, next three years, five years.

• 31:05Lewis Howes?

  So you're thinking game plan first.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm getting the vision for the next five years of my life, right? So if I say, hey, listen, I want to be in California, living in my dream home, debt free, like whatever that vision is, I'm casting that vision. Below that vision, I'm writing down the why. You know, one of my good friends, Pastor Darius Daniels, mentioned something. He said, man, if your why doesn't make you cry, then the price of commitment for the next five years is gonna make you cry.

• 31:31Lewis Howes?

  Let's go.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  And it's gonna make you quit. And so for me, once I write down the vision, I'm gonna write down a why. Why do I want to accomplish this vision? So if I'm drowning in debt and I know I want to be out of debt, I want to be in my home, why do I want the home? I don't want the home just because it's nice sitting on the beach. I want the home probably because you know what, man, growing up, me and my kid, me and my siblings had to share a room, right? You know what? We never were a homeowner. Maybe I'm the first homeowner in my family. So I'm, I'm getting a deep enough why that when it gets hard, when I feel like giving up, it's gonna make me cry and make me push through. So that I'm doing that. So that's number two. Then number three, I'm looking at, I'm pulling credit card, I'm pulling the last three months of my bank statements and I'm getting on

• 32:13Speaker 03

  a very detailed budget. I'm writing down everything and I call this a zero-based budget, but for me, I know a lot of people get turned off by the word of budgeting. So I call it, what's the vision now I have for my life? What's the vision for my money? So if I'm saying, okay, cool, I would have been debt free, but I gotta go look at my credit report. I gotta pull Equifax, TransUnion, Experian. I gotta pull the last three months of my bank statements. And this is something I do on a regular. Louis, I'll get five highlighters, different colors. And I'll go through and highlight, okay, food is one color. And I wanna see how much money over the last three to six months have I spent on food? Wow. And if I'm saying, okay, dang, I was talking to my barber, he spent two grand on food in one month. Wow. Just eating out. Like, two grand.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  I'm like, bro, it's just you. What are you eating for two thousand dollars? Wow. And twenty, I'm like, I know it's expensive out here in the streets, but it's not that expensive. So I'm like, two grand in one month, okay, we need to cut that off by like three fours. You need to be down to five hundred dollars, including groceries and eating out, boom, when it's just you. So like, I'm highlighting everything and I'm assessing, making sure that I know exactly where my money is going. Because here's the truth. You cannot manage your money if you're not measuring it. You can't really understand what you're doing and where you're going if you're not tracking what it's doing. And for the majority of the people who are watching this show,

• 33:40Speaker 03

  I'll say this, I won't say the majority, but if you're with the School of Greatness, we're gonna say a majority of y'all should be winning. For those of us who are watching this show, a lot of us are probably saying, dang, I just got paid last week, but I don't know where the money went. And it's because you're not, you're not managing it well because you're not measuring where your money is going. So that's number three. I'm gonna, I'm gonna list out everything. And watch this, before I put it on the budget, I'm gonna write it out. Yo, I owe this bank this, I owe that bank this. I'm gonna list out every, every, all the debt. Out of all the debt, I'm gonna list out all of my monthly expenses. Then I'm gonna take that information and I'm gonna put it on this budget. And here's the truth, if we're gonna be honest. It is gonna frustrate you. Yeah. It is gonna make you feel depressed a little bit.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  You're gonna feel discouraged a little bit because what's gonna happen is you're gonna see you have more debt than you have income. That's gonna be my number four. Once I see that I have all this debt, I'm gonna measure, okay, what is the income strategy that I need to come up with? That's gonna create margin to help me pay off my debt. And I tell everyone, that's gonna be a job. And except for getting a second job. Listen, man, the content creation space, I just think right now is a healthy place to get into. Because I think a lot of us have a lot up here that people were paid to have. And so like for example, I had a school teacher come to me and she was like, man, Anthony, I'm in $238,000 in debt. Oh.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  A hundred and forty of them are, um, is, is her student loans because she has her doctorate. Yeah. Uh, then twelve of them are cars, her and her husband, then the others just credit cards and stuff from here. I said, okay, all right, let's, let's write it down. And so, um, as I was talking with her, I said, listen, she said, I'm gonna get another job working at Walmart part-time. I said, I think that's a, that's not a good, good use of your time. I say, why not? You're a school teacher. Why not go home? You're making good money over here. Why not go home and create maybe a course? Or a, a, an academy that helps get kids ready for the SAT? She was like, what do you mean?

• 35:43Speaker 03

  I say, why not use the skills that you're giving to the, the, the job, to the school system and build a side business? That now parents can buy to help them get ready for the SAT. She was like, Anthony, I never thought about that. So she went home and she started dreaming with her husband. But when she came back to me, not only did she come up with a business that is gonna help kids with the SAT, but she also came up with a business that helps school, uh, school students in school to be a teacher, to help them graduate in college. A year later, her side business is paying her more than what the school teaching is doing. Because she took her wisdom and her knowledge and turned it into a side business.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  So not only is she creating more income, now she's able to use the tax benefits that the wealthy are using. And I said, okay, are you gonna quit your job? She was like, no, because my side business is funding this thing. I honestly love teaching students. So what happened?

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Husband quit his job. He runs the business. Wow. He does all of the marketing, he does all of the stuff. And this is what I love. It puts them back at the head of their table. Yes. Because now it's like, wait, we're now controlling our life. Now she went from having to be a school teacher. To wanting to be a school teacher. Wow. She went from having to work to, you know what? I love what I do. Yes. And that's the freedom that you have when you're at the seat at the head of your table. Is that you get to decide what you want to do and the direction of wherever you want to go. What would you say is the number one piece of financial advice you're seeing online? That people should ignore?

• 37:25Speaker 03

  You know, there is a, there's a lot. You know, it's not just what, I'm like, man, there's so many Lewis that I could say. Uh, but it's, I think the number one financial advice that I would say. And, and I'll talk about this in, inside of the book that I would ignore. Um, is that everyone has to be an entrepreneur. Ignore that. Ignore that. Yeah. Because that's not the case. I, I think everyone should have an entrepreneurial mindset. But not everyone should be entrepreneurial. Mm-hmm. Because if, if you want to be a, when they say be an entrepreneur, what they're talking about is. They're selling you, hey man, I could work on the beach. Hey man, I'm, I'm flying in the private jets.

• 38:06Speaker 03

  Hey man, you know, I'm able to go buy this G wagon and ride off a hundred percent of it because it's over six thousand pounds. They're lying to you. I, I've been doing this for four years and me and you have several conversations offline. This entrepreneurial world is not for everybody. And it's frustrating. And, and I have not to this day, worked on the beach. Cause you worked, you worked in a career before and now you're, you're an entrepreneur now. Yes, and, and if I'm being honest, in the corporate America space, in the corporate space. Man, I'm working harder today than I was then. Of course. Right? So I'm not flying on private jets and just not working for a month or two.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  That's not happening. And so I think some of the worst advice is looking at these influencers and they're selling you on, hey, I can coach you to be your own boss and you'll be working at the beach. And I'm saying it can't happen because have I gone on vacation and worked? Absolutely. But what I am saying is out of 365 days a year, these people saying you only gotta work 20 of them, that's a lie. And so I think for me, it's really, we gotta start teaching how to have the entrepreneurial mindset. But not everyone is called to be an entrepreneur because I think I need a real good assistant if I'm gonna be effective. And I think people are made, as a Christian, I do believe people are made to be the number two,

• 39:30Speaker 03

  the number three, the number four, to be the team player. Because an effective business cannot run without effective team members. And you can be just as wealthy, you can be just as successful if you are living the authentic life of yourself. I think one of the greatest mistakes that I see in people, especially this younger generation, they wanna rush to be their own boss, but they haven't really done anything to learn how to be an effective boss. And I'm so grateful that God put me through the seasons of serving in the church world, serving in the corporate America space, because I would not be successful today if I didn't learn up on any different people. And I think for me, I think that is one of the dumbest mistakes that I've seen people make.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  And I think another mistake I saw online, and it was so frustrating to me, is take your student loans and go buy real estate with it. I was like, go borrow money?

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Take out a parent plus law. Oh, man. Have them sign on it. Have them sign on it to go buy real estate?

• 40:38Speaker 03

  And the real estate was just a down payment on all. It's it's not the whole house. Exactly, I I gotta pay double interest now. High interest on the student loan, high interest on on this. I'm like, wait, wait a minute. So there's so many different things, man, that that I really adjust to. But I think one of the things I learned from you, man, I gotta give you credit for it.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  I think it was like a year and a half ago, Louis. Because I'm always watching your shows and always growing from you, your advice and the people you had on. And man, because of you, I have an interchangeable seat at my table. I have interchangeable seat between my therapist and my emotional coach. And you talked about that like a year and a half, I want to say. And what I learned was that my emotions, I was making financial decisions based upon my emotions. When my emotions shouldn't be making decisions, I should be managing my emotions. But my emotions should not be managing me. And I've made bad financial decisions because of how I felt off of my emotions.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  And if I'm being honest and vulnerable, I've lost out on great relationships and friendships. Because I didn't manage my emotions. And and I'm like, whoa, so when I heard you say that, like, bro, I got convicted. I was like, look at Louis over here preaching. I was like, Louis, does he know he a prophet? So I stepped back and started looking for emotional coaches because I realized, like, man. If I'm being honest, like Louis, to this day, I still meet with I still meet with him. And to this day, it is still a struggle for me to control and manage my emotions. Because when you have that feeling, you gotta be like, no, this this is my emotions. I cannot make a decision in this state.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  And I've made decisions in that state that has cost me a lot of money. That has I've I've probably lost out on an amazing woman because of that. I've probably lost business relationships and even friendships because of that. But I think I I hear this often within the world. And man, if you're feeling bad, man, just go to the mall and just do some window shopping. That's your emotions talking. You know what, man, we tend to go buy things when we're feeling a certain ton of weight. That's your emotions talking. And so I would encourage people, man, to get that interchangeable seat between the therapist and emotional coach, and they work together. My therapist helps me understand the practical reason of why I made the decision.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  My emotional coach is helping me understand why I'm feeling the way that I'm feeling and how to control that.

• 43:20Lewis Howes?

  How can people start to shift out of a scarcity mindset into abundance thinking when they're just fight or flight survival mode daily?

• 43:29Speaker 02

  This is, this is a great question, and I'm so glad you asked it early on in our time together. I was very lucky to have a dad that believed in the American dream. He built into me, psychologically, the ideals of the American dream. He gave me Thinking Rich when I was 10 years old and said, read this at least one time every year of your life. But we came from the hills of West Virginia and the hollers. And my grandfather did not believe in the American dream. He worked in the coal mines, he worked in the factories, the chemical factories. He basically believed that money was a source of evil. He believed people that had it were greedy. He believed he was entitled to money that he didn't create.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  And he always, he always viewed it as anybody that had money was a crook. And my dad rejected that. My dad, by the time he was 10 years old, was an entrepreneur three times over. He sold newspapers, he sold cloverine salve to the miners where their hands were cracked, and he signed shoes. So he believed that if you created value for other people, that you would be rewarded with wealth and prosperity, and that people that had money weren't crooks, but they actually were really hardworking and dedicated. And he loved this country and the values that it stood for. So the minds, every summer, we'd go back to West Virginia, and I'd see the people living in the poverty. And they didn't have physical shackles.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  It was, it was a mindset, well, I call it a screen by which they saw themselves as victims, a screen, a psychological screen made out of language, language that you're taught. And then there's, and then there's the, the language or the screen of the American dream. And that, and most people do look at money as a form of survival. And that is largely in our DNA too. I mean, for thousands of years, people had a real hard time surviving. And so money was in property was a form of survival. But now we live in a relative world of abundance and creativity. And if you can get that screen of the American dream, you can start to escape that, that,

• 45:39Speaker 02

  that terrible bonds that, that really imprison you almost in a, in a world of scarcity.

• 45:46Lewis Howes?

  Two things here. One, can you explain what the screen is? Is it a, a framework of thinking and language around what money is?

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Yes. So it's, it's the, the way that people can think about it. Sometimes you create that language on purpose. Like if I'm going to go be a doctor, I spend many, many years developing language around what a doctor is. So they see the human body as very different to someone who doesn't have that language. Well, we have all kinds of conversations in our lives about money, about the world, about how money works, how money is created, our place in the world and our relationship to money. And money, ironically, having a lot of money doesn't mean you're going to be happy.

• 46:26Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  As a matter of fact, I've seen a lot of really, really wealthy people, tens, twenties, thirties, millions of dollars. And history is rife with people like Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe, Howard Hughes, Prince, people with a lot of money, power, fame, but it didn't do them any good. It actually helped seal their fate in the end and became very destructive.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  There's another thing that you mentioned just before this was, you know, there's kind of two different mindsets. Your grandfather, who worked in the coal mines, who worked really hard, it sounds like on a daily basis, but didn't understand how to create more value, whether in his coal mine or somewhere else, and therefore was given what he received, correct?

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:08Lewis Howes?

  Versus your dad, where it sounds like, how did your dad break that mindset from his father, who he saw probably miserable or unhappy in the mines, dirty every night and sick and coughing? How did he say, I want to change this without a model of someone showing him abundance?

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Well, that's, that's great. And, and go back to my grandfather once, his screen was so strong.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  It was like they lived in two different worlds. It's how the two different dimensions of reality. His screen was so strong. When he was offered an opportunity to grow at Union Carbide, he was offered to be a foreman and have a crew underneath him. He told them no.

• 47:49Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Because he didn't want to be part of the machine.

• 47:52Lewis Howes?

  That's evil and bad.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  He didn't want to be evil and bad in his eyes. So he proved it to himself that he was doomed to be our money. I call these money demons. These money demons, which we all have at various times in our life. They take us over and preclude us from doing things that could actually save us. So he never took that race. He never took that opportunity to save his family, even when it was offered to him. And I've, I've asked my dad, I said, what? How did you? I mean, this poverty, this abject poverty, they, they, those, they would cut the tops off of instant carnation milk cans and they would hammer it to the baseboards in their shack by the railroad so that the rats wouldn't come in their house in the wintertime.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  That's how, that's how much poverty my dad came from. He only had one pair of shoes a year right before school started and then they were barefoot all summer long. I mean, this was true abject poverty. He said, he said, he said, I, I saw a couple of examples of people that did have a little bit of money and they were nice and they helped me. And I went to work for them. And I noticed that my dad was wrong, that people that had money weren't evil and they weren't bad and they were, and they were actually willing to help. And I had a couple of good teachers in school that taught me about that. But deep down, my dad had, and I don't know where he got it. He had a deep seated belief in capitalism.

• 49:19Lewis Howes?

  And entrepreneurism. Yeah. So what, you, you mentioned money demons. What are money demons? And do we all have them?

• 49:26Speaker 02

  We, we all do to a greater or lesser extent.

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  What is, what is a money demon?

• 49:30Speaker 02

  So I'll, so I'll give you an example. So when I started my company, I wanted to help a lot of people. You know, we managed 11 billion dollars for people all over North America, 500 advisors.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  But when I started, I only had three employees. And I had a demon belief, it's a belief created in language, that then we don't realize that it's only just a screen. We take it one as reality, and that reality was that employees suck. And they're too expensive, and when you hire them, they don't do a good job. And the other money demon I had was that I'm not a good manager, and I don't know how to manage people. So I'll just do it myself. Now, money demons are so pervasive, because when we have them, we make their self fulfilling prophecies, and we make them come true. And we don't look for opportunities that violate our screen.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  So I had to look at what I was getting out of it. What was I getting out of that screen? Well, I got to play small, didn't have to hire people. I got to be self righteous. I got to be condemning. You were right all the time. I'm right and righteous. I got to gossip about other people, character assassinate. I got to be a victim. I mean, it was juicy psychological payoff. But I also had to realize that if I couldn't change those screens about the world, that I was going to be doomed, never to fulfill my mission, which was to help more people stop speculating with their money and fulfill their American dream. Wow. And then you have to do a cost benefit analysis and say, okay,

• 51:09Speaker 02

  am I going to keep that demon belief? Because there is payoff. Yes. I can live a normal, ordinary life, not full of greatness. Thorough said it the best, you know, quiet desperation. Or am I going to break that belief? And I actually call it do violence to the belief. Interesting. I have to actually kill it. Yes. I have to kill that belief. But the thing about money demons is when you kill them and have more money, they don't disappear. They often morph. How so? Well, so after I became successful, then I went through a divorce. And then I started eventually dating after some therapy and counseling.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  And I started dating and I started getting one string of really painful relationships after another. And I developed a belief based on the divorce and dating that what that I'm not really that attractive. I'm not really that sexy. I got a lot of money and that's what women really went from me. And so that I'll never really, you know, have someone I really truly love and really truly loves me. And then I had a, you know, string of dating examples that created that. And so I had to do violence to that belief.

• 52:22Lewis Howes?

  So how does that look like in your mind? How do you kill off the old limiting belief or the demons that keep you small or hold you back?

• 52:31Speaker 02

  So you have to look at the, you have to look at the benefits you're getting out of it.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  You, the benefits, and I know it doesn't seem like there are benefits, but there are benefits to being right and playing small and not taking risks.

• 52:44Lewis Howes?

  And being a victim.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  And being a victim of being the martyr.

• 52:46Lewis Howes?

  You advise, how many different, I guess, advisors would you say?

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Roughly 500.

• 52:51Lewis Howes?

  500 and they're managing portfolios of what type of range?

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Oh gosh, we try not to have a minimum because we want to help everybody. But you know, there's portfolios up to 70, 80 million.

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Okay.

• 53:05Lewis Howes?

  But you have this part of the book, page 73, that called the destructive cycle of wealth. And you say, yes, it's cliche that money can't make you happy. Songs have been written about it, but why can't money make you happy? Shouldn't it make you a little bit happier if you suddenly stumble into, say, a hundred million dollars? You say the answer is no, and it sounds counterintuitive, but I firmly believe that to be true. And if money isn't making us any happier and most of us have much more than what we need, why do we work so hard to make more of it? Why do we spend so much of our lives thinking about money without even realizing it? We are stuck in the destructive cycle of wealth. And learning about this cycle can help you better understand some of your decisions about money.

• 53:50Lewis Howes?

  And you say it has five phases, beginning with our most basic human needs. Can you talk about what this destructive cycle of wealth is?

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:59Lewis Howes?

  Why it's important for us to understand it and what we can do to make sure we don't stay in it?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. So when I realized that I had clients with a lot of money that were very unhappy. That was my next question. My dad, one of the key strategies in the book is to ask a good question. Yeah. And don't try to rush to get the answer. Take your time and really let it work on you and your subconscious and really think about it. So it's took me years to come to think about this and that. The reason it can't make you happy is because it doesn't feel anything in your spiritual nature that can bring happiness.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  But it fulfills the survival nature, right? Yeah. So we all want things and we want things for our survival. That's instincts. Food, clothing, shelter, love, that kind of stuff. And then we go out and we obtain things and we obtain those things, most of us. But then we want more. Toyota even had that commercial, what a feeling, you know, when you get to Toyota. So you don't just want a new car. You want a really nice car. You don't want a new house. You want a really nice house. You don't. So and then when you do get something, whether it's the computer or golf clubs or a purse or whatever it is. You have it for a while. You obtained it. You felt good about it for a little while. Then you start comparing it to what everybody else has.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  I had a boat I bought in Florida when we had a house down there and it was a 37 footer, 300 Yamaha motors. I loved that boat, had tons of fun on that boat. It was adventurous, really great. And then one day there was a 180 foot yacht and their dinghy was bigger than my boat.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  And I'm like, this ain't no boat. I gotta get me a bigger boat. Really? Yeah. And but whether it's the size of your portfolio, the size of your house, you buy the perfect house, you think it's perfect. Then six months later, you're looking at the kitchen going, these cabinets really suck. We really need to rip these out. It's just human nature. And and then so then it brings us around to comparing it to other things. Sometimes in technologies this way, they always come out with bigger, better, faster, cooler technology we want. And then you can lead you back up to this top at wanting stuff. So it can't, it doesn't fulfill at a deep, meaningful purpose. And that leads you back to what you mentioned earlier, which is survival. It's about survival.

• 56:24Lewis Howes?

  So if I'm getting this right, we go through the cycle. And you know, a lot of people who are mega millionaires, maybe even billionaires, who are unhappy still.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 56:35Lewis Howes?

  Would you say the majority of millionaires or billionaires are unhappy? The ones that you've been around or experienced?

• 56:42Speaker 02

  I don't know about the majority, but I do know there is no correlation. And I know it from my personal life too, because

• 56:48Lewis Howes?

  Happiness and having money.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Right, because there's been times where I had a lot of money, was very unhappy. I had no money and was pretty happy.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  So you've also had a lot of money and been happy too.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  I would take the latter, the money and the happiness at the same time.

• 57:03Lewis Howes?

  Of course, you've experienced that too.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  And I have.

• 57:05Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  But if it's not the money, then what is? And what I've found is it's having a purpose in life that's greater than money itself. Something, and if you think throughout history, the people that have changed the world, whether it's Ronald Reagan, or whether it's Martin Luther King, or whether it's JFK, or whether it's Walt Disney, or the Wright Brothers, or you think about these people that have changed the world, they've all had this deep sense of purpose and value in their life. So much so that they've even laid their life, Dr. Martin Luther King laid down his life for his purpose. And that's how strong purpose can be. And if you'll have a purpose first,

• 57:49Speaker 02

  then use it to create value for other people and align with their purpose. And then the more money you have, great. Because then I can align how I use that money with my purpose in life. And, and I can do great things with my money. That brings me joy and happiness and freedom from, and freedom and fulfillment with other people. But if I have the money without the purpose, it just becomes a burden.

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  Really? Comes empty.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  It's so.

• 58:18Lewis Howes?

  I need more money, more money, more money for what?

• 58:21Speaker 02

  It's, it's an addiction of itself.

• 58:24Lewis Howes?

  So the, it sounds like the greater the purpose you have, the more fulfilled you'll be with or without money.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Because in fact, if you have a strong enough purpose, you don't even need money. You know, like Mother Teresa, saints.

• 58:38Lewis Howes?

  Well, because they feel taken care of by the community, or they know they're going to be provided for. They're happy with whatever they receive each day.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  There is, it's about their purpose in life. If I don't have, look, you can live in America for, for very little money. Even if you only have forty, fifty thousand dollars a year, you live better than the King of England did five hundred years ago. You have chocolate, you have air conditioning, you have food, you have.

• 59:01Lewis Howes?

  Running water.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  You have running water, you have.

• 59:03Lewis Howes?

  Healthcare.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, it's, it's a miracle. You should, everybody should wake up every morning in America going, it's a miracle, it's a miracle. I can't believe I live here. Of course they don't. Um, but, but it's a miracle that what we have. And if you only have a little bit of money and you have a friend in the hospital, you can make a card with a crayon or a pen. You could go to the hospital, you could sit by their, by them and hold their hand. And you could express your love and affection.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  And that's going to be more fulfilling than a Ferrari. I'm not anti Ferrari, you got one, but.

• 59:37Lewis Howes?

  It's funny for an hour, but it's not, you know, it's.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  I call them cookies and toys.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  You say you got these toys, they're, and they're fun. Okay, fine, great. I'm not saying that they're bad, but they won't make me happy. And then food, it's anything you ingest that try to change your mood about yourself and feel better temporarily.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  But they're not, they're not permanent.

• 1:00:02Lewis Howes?

  Right. This is powerful, man. I love this. You know, and you, and you mentioned early on that we, people have these screens. And just so I'm clear, is a screen kind of like a framework? It's kind of like a framework of thinking towards money or towards life? Is that your definition of a screen?

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  It is. It is. It's, it's.

• 1:00:19Lewis Howes?

  A model, a way of thinking?

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  It's a mental model that you have that you, here's the critical part, that you don't know you have. Because it just appears like the truth.

• 1:00:31Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  And not something that you just made up. A story. Yeah, something happened. I lost money on a house. But I have a degree in finance and accounting. I'm bad at real estate, really? That's just being a wimp.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  So it's, it's the, it's the story that I make up about whatever. And a lot of it's money, relationships with money. And it all comes down to, when I run these exercises with people, they'll make, first you make a list of your complaints. What's all your complaints about money? And then, and then what demon belief or relationship do you have based on that complaint? And then where did it come from? What happened when you were eight years old? The first time you heard your mom and dad yelling about money? That gave you that story that you have about what money is? Because something did happen. But then what you made it mean is not what is just a story you made up.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  And you can start to do battle with those and, and, and start to untangle them over time. And then it's kind of like the demon and it, it morphs into other things. It's not, it only dies for like, hides for 17 years and it comes out as something else. And it, and it changes usually into what your greatest fear is.

• 1:01:50Lewis Howes?

  So can you give me an example, if you were doing this exercise for yourself? And, you know, I'm assuming you've done this a bunch of times. Or you have an example of something, a story that you had, a money story or a moment or memory? That caused a belief within your screen that?

• 1:02:06Lewis Howes?

  I guess you made decisions based on for many years until you became aware of it and killed it off.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Lewis Howes?

  What would that look like for you? If you give one example of here's your daddy or grandpa, whatever that might be.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So there's there's screens. Money is people like to try to compartmentalize things in their brain like, oh, this is money. This is my relationships. This is my life. This is my whatever. But money doesn't work like that.

• 1:02:31Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  It's got tentacles and it's like a thread that goes through the carpet of your life. And it's it touches everything. So when I have a money demon, I also usually have a relationship demon.

• 1:02:42Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  When I went through divorce, I thought, okay, you're gonna lose half of all your stuff now, including your company that you built. So that was less than ideal. That was a money demon. But I also had another money demon or a relationship demon related to that is that I had grown up most of my life as an atheist and took classes in college about how there's no God and all this garbage. And so then, when I went through the divorce, I mean, I was I was gutted. I mean, I was obviously, it was dark. I'm a bad father. I wasn't seeing my kids. I'm gonna lose my company. It's gonna be like this is gonna be the worst thing ever in my life. I got depressed. And and then I was talking to a buddy on the phone.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  So I lived in a world, a screen, because there is no God. And I'm talking to a buddy of mine and he's I'm probably crying. He's like, well, are you ready? I said, ready for what? He said, are you ready to admit there's a God and it's not you?

• 1:03:43Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  And I'm like, uh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:47Lewis Howes?

  Well, you could have said, see, there is no God because I'm divorced, half my money's gone, my business is gone, my kids don't like me, right? You could have also gone and stayed in that belief.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I could have just stayed there and.

• 1:03:59Lewis Howes?

  If there was a God, why would he let this happen to me?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Well, I knew because I was a sinner and I didn't believe in God.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  But you know what, all of the, and this, and the screen sometimes can change slow, or sometimes it can go fast. But I knew instantly, I could not live in a world without a God anymore.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  I just, it was empty, it was devoid, and it was hopeless. And I didn't have any doubts or questions. All the intellectual gymnastics I had been doing my whole life went away. And he said, get on your knees and let's pray. And I was in that hotel room and started praying. And I went from a screen, a world of no God, to a world of God. And that's made all, it's made all the difference, kind of like the master screen that fits into the other screens.

• 1:04:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  But screens are powerful. And people will literally die to keep their screens, like my grandpa did. He died, he died, he came to visit us only one time at our house in Cincinnati. It was August, it was a cool for August. He walked in the front door. We had about maybe like an 1800 foot square house, wasn't huge. He said, how many, he looked at my dad and in front of his whole family, he said, how many people did you have to rip off to keep this house?

• 1:05:09Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh, that was his first thing.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  That was the first thing out of his mouth.

• 1:05:13Lewis Howes?

  Jeez. So his, his screen, his framework, his mindset, when he saw something, he said, you did something wrong to get this.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:05:24Lewis Howes?

  There's no way you could have done something good to be able to afford something like this.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  That's right. And I know my dad wanted to be proud of him.

• 1:05:32Lewis Howes?

  That's tough.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  And right in front of his whole family. And he said, George, Mary Lou and I were in a real business. We worked really hard. We tried to build a good family for, have a good house for our family and a nice home. And he said, well, you can tell yourself whatever you want, they'll let you sleep in.

• 1:05:48Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  He said, but all I see is a big shot. You think you're better than me? And it got really heated after that for about five minutes. He left, he never came back. And three months later, he was dead in his little teeny shack he lived at in West Virginia.

• 1:06:04Lewis Howes?

  How old were you during that time?

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  About 13.

• 1:06:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What did, I mean, that's a memory that is still alive in you today.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  I'll never forget that day.

• 1:06:12Lewis Howes?

  Forty-seven, forty-eight years ago, right? That was a memory that your grandfather had with your father and your family. What?

• 1:06:23Lewis Howes?

  Psychological screen did you create in that moment? That stuck with you? That benefited you and one that didn't benefit you?

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:31Lewis Howes?

  Well. Cause money essentially that, you know, your dad tried to break a model of his father's to do something good. But it hurt the relationship with his father.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:06:43Lewis Howes?

  It caused him, maybe you could think it caused him to die. Maybe, maybe not, but it could be like. It was so bad that he died alone because he had no family and he didn't want to be around me, whatever he made up in his mind. So what was the benefit from you in seeing that experience versus, you know, a negative benefit?

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  The benefit in that was that dad. Stood up for his family.

• 1:07:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's powerful.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  And stood up to his values and what he believed about America. Um, and about freedom and about entrepreneurship, uh, and about helping other people. And never expecting anything from, expecting anything, uh, free or that you're, you didn't earn. Um, and that always stuck with me. On, on the other hand, when I, when I was a kid, I did go through some stuff. You know, I, I had trouble studying in school and trouble reading. So I made up, I'm stupid and. You know, I'd ask a girl to the dance and she wouldn't say no, you know, and I think, oh, I'm not handsome enough or. I didn't get to be the captain on the football team. And so I started like, I'm dumb. I'm not handsome. I'm not attractive. I'm not man enough.

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  And that was early on. That was like eighth grade and I got bullied in school. And so I had all these, in my strategy, I, I heard your podcast with pivot. My strategy was not unlike yours, which was to win at all costs. Whatever I was gonna do, if it's gonna be sports, if it's gonna be grades, if it's gonna be drama club, if it's gonna be whatever, I gotta have the lead in the. Lead role. I gotta be the captain. I gotta, you know, win state championship in discus. I mean, I, I gotta do all this. Or I'm not worth anything. And it got me through a little bit in life, but it ultimately would, it'd be a failed strategy.

• 1:08:27Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly. What would you say are? Some things people should talk about before getting married about money conversations. What questions did you ask your partner before getting married to make sure that you're at least setting yourself up on the right track of a healthy, successful marriage?

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  One of the things is, I think, I think both people would want to define what their purpose for money is.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  And then make sure that those are synergistic and they work together.

• 1:08:58Lewis Howes?

  Give me an example of what maybe yours was during that time.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  Mine was, uh, love.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  Create love in the world. And hers was family.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  Love, close second.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  So they were very synergistic. They worked really well together.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  She had a belief that her value as a human being was determined on her working.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  And that if she wasn't working, that she wouldn't have any value.

• 1:09:36Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  And that was something we had to work through because I wanted to be able to travel. I wanted to be able to do things with the kids. I wanted to be able, but she, her job, she was a physical therapist and went from, you know, the home physical therapy, but she couldn't take time off.

• 1:09:51Lewis Howes?

  Without thinking she's not valuable anymore?

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  Well, she would lose her job if she wanted, if she took as much time as I wanted to take off, she would lose her job.

• 1:10:00Lewis Howes?

  And if she wasn't working, she was saying, I'm not valuable.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  I'm not valuable.

• 1:10:03Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  And so that was a money, kind of a money demon we had to work through.

• 1:10:07Lewis Howes?

  Now, I guess she might think, I'm not valuable for myself, but also the fear could be, well, if I'm not working, he met me when I was working and providing for myself and independent, that's what turned him on potentially. So if I'm not doing that, will he still be turned on?

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. And what if I turned out being like her last husband and then left her and then she'd given up her job?

• 1:10:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  And she has three kids to take care of and...

• 1:10:33Lewis Howes?

  That fear.

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  So that fear of being left, being abandoned.

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  And then what would she have?

• 1:10:40Lewis Howes?

  I mean, it's a real fear though, right?

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  It's a real fear.

• 1:10:43Lewis Howes?

  So she has to have a lot of trust in you that, okay, I'm gonna leave my job and you're not gonna leave me.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:51Lewis Howes?

  How does a woman trust a man in that position? Who's already been divorced and been wounded, who's already been abandoned? Who wants to make sure that doesn't happen again? Who wants to provide for their family? How does a woman trust and have faith? What can she say to the man to feel?

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Safe. I think it's, I think it's a, well, it was another interesting thing. So her ex-husband had told her that, and this just gutted me when I heard it the first time, had told her that, that because she had three kids, that no one would ever want her. Talk about a gut punch. I mean, that was just, we had the first day, we went to Starbucks and had our first, you know, date together. We talked for like three hours.

• 1:11:38Lewis Howes?

  Just as friends?

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is friends from the first.

• 1:11:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  And, um, and I, that made me so mad. I was, and I don't know why, because I'd never really thought about getting divorced. And maybe it was subconscious, but even from the time I was in college, I thought if I did ever marry somebody that had kids, I would love their kids the same way that I love them. And I would never let that be an obstacle to having a relationship.

• 1:12:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  So when, when he was manipulating her like that and trying to control her and just making her feel bad and really depressed about the whole thing, it really, really made me mad.

• 1:12:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  But that was another one of her money demons was that, you know, she had kids and no, no guy was gonna wanna take that on.

• 1:12:20Lewis Howes?

  So how did she learn to let go of that and trust you and have faith?

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  I think it was just tons of time and therapy and just lots of, lots, lots of discussions about things.

• 1:12:30Lewis Howes?

  And probably your, your actions matching your words consistently for her, right?

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Most, most of our therapy had to do around the kids.

• 1:12:38Lewis Howes?

  I'm sure.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  This kid's doing this, that parent's doing this, this kid needs that and this, this kid needs that. And then working through all of those, working through all of those. We had a therapist once in a time tell us, you know, three years to get it all really aligned up and make us feel like one's family. I was like.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  Ten years, maybe?

• 1:12:58Lewis Howes?

  Ten years, yeah.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  It takes a, take a long time. We have that many players involved.

• 1:13:02Lewis Howes?

  No, but also when you got divorced, I'm assuming it affected your financial situation or your business. You know, you had to get a split or give up a large portion, or I'm assuming. Unless I'm wrong, let me know. But how did you manage that money demon of, man, I worked so hard for this. And now I've got to give up half or whatever it was?

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:23Lewis Howes?

  How did you overcome that? And how did you, instead of being a victim to that situation? How did you start to shift and say, and use it for good?

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  That screen. Well, once I kind of came out of the sadness of, and some of the grief part of it, I was like, okay. Now, what am I gonna, what am I gonna do to make this, you know, mess into a message? And I had, we had a negotiator that helped negotiate the divorce, the mediator. And part of the mediation was, look, this is my company. I built this company. The income you're getting, the benefits, the money, everything you're getting is because I'm keeping this company running. And without me, there is no company. So I'm not gonna let you double dip. I'm not gonna give you half of the company and half of all the other stuff in addition.

• 1:14:13Lewis Howes?

  Right. Cause you could just stop running the company.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  I'll stop running the company and I'll, I'll run it into a ditch.

• 1:14:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  And then, I'm not, I'm not very great at negotiating, but that was, I was firm on that. But you're getting a really great deal. You're gonna get going with your life. You're gonna, you got lots of great resources to go on and be happy. Do your own deal, but I'm not giving you my company.

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  And that was, and I kept the company intact. That was, in retrospect, that was really, really good.

• 1:14:45Lewis Howes?

  But you gave up a lot of your other, or you gave a lot of your other assets and cash and yeah.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Ton.

• 1:14:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How did that make you feel, though? That screen, did you say, you know what? This is creating freedom and peace for me and I'm okay with this.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  I just felt like it was worth it. Yeah.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  I was like, whatever it's gonna take to get through this and move on with my life, it's just worth it.

• 1:15:11Lewis Howes?

  I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyleasebook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness.

• 1:15:52Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:16:36Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.