Heal Your Mind & Find Yourself [MASTERCLASS] EP 1384

https://lewishowes.com/mindset - Order a copy of my new book The Greatness Mindset today! In today’s masterclass, three experts will walk you through different methods and tactics for how you can continue to heal your mind and find your true self. In this episode, you will learn:Gabor Mate, a renowned speaker and best-selling author, gets you thinking on why you might feel lost in life & how to find your path forward. Mariel Buque, a Columbia University-trained Psychologist & intergenerational trauma expert, teaches how you can regulate your nervous system & heal your soul. Muniba Mazari, an artist, humanitarian, and global Motivational Speaker, explains how you can become the source of your own joy & find true self love. For more, go to lewishowes.com/1384Previous Episodes:Gabor Mate - https://link.chtbl.com/1319-podMariel Buque - https://link.chtbl.com/1304-podMuniba Mazari - https://link.chtbl.com/1282-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Lewis Howes?

  If you feel like you're not living your most authentic life, not leaning into your purpose and not living the life that your future self would be extremely proud of, I've written a new book called The Greatness Mindset, and I think you're gonna love this. Through powerful stories, science-backed strategies, and step-by-step guidance, The Greatness Mindset will help you overcome all the different challenges in your life to design the life of your dreams and then turn it into your reality. Make sure to click the link in the description to get your copy today.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  We all develop this personality. Now, the personality, we think that's us, but it's not us. The personality is the traits that we took on to survive our childhoods. But we identify with it. So we think we're the personality. I wouldn't say kill that part of you. I'd say let's make friends with it. Let's find out what it's really trying to do for you. What it's trying to do for you is trying to make you feel.

• 0:53Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:17Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's gonna be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

• 1:34Lewis Howes?

  What are the main, I guess, mental health, are they diseases? Or are they not considered a disease? Like depression, ADD, ADHD, what are the main mental health symptoms out in the world right now, could you say?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Depression and anxiety are fast growing and they're major challenges. More and more kids are being diagnosed with ADHD. More and more kids are being diagnosed with something called oppositional defiant disorder, which

• 2:08Lewis Howes?

  What is that?

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Opposition, that's when a kid is defiant and oppositional. And goes against adult values and adult expectations. But we think there's something wrong with the kid instead of looking at the context of what makes the kid

• 2:26Lewis Howes?

  The environment, yeah.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  No, are these diseases? Well, you can talk about them as diseases to some degree and certainly, you know, I've had depression and I've taken medication for it in my 40s and it really made a difference for me. You might call it a disease, but actually, that's a shallow way of looking at it. Because actually, what does it go back to? It goes back to being a one-year-old infant or being a three-month-old infant. In the book, The Myth of Normal, the first chapter has a painting in it. The painting is by my wife, based on a photograph of me and my mother.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  This is Budapest, Hungary, 1944, and I'm three months of age. And my mother in the photograph is wearing a yellow star the Jews had to wear. My father was a reinforced laborer and within two months, her parents would be killed in Auschwitz. That was my first year of life.

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  And the look on my face is full of terror. I was absorbing my mother's fear and my mother's anxiety.

• 3:36Lewis Howes?

  Because she had terror in her face and you're mimicking and

• 3:39Speaker 01

  She had it in her body.

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  Body. You're connected to her, feeding 10 times a day.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  And you're feeling the stress.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 3:47Lewis Howes?

  There's probably now no calm in her.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  There's no calm there and but she's already so stressed.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  And she's just trying to make sure that we survive. She's not there to really receive my feelings. And then when I'm a year old, or eleven months old, she hands me to a complete stranger in the street to save my life. Because she didn't think where we're staying, I would survive for a day. And probably I wouldn't have. Wow. So I didn't see her for six weeks, five or six weeks. And And you're one? I was one then, yeah. Oh, my gosh. And now, what could I do as a one-year-old? I could do two things, or as an infant going through all that. First of all, how do I deal with all that stress? I tune out.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  I tune out, I become absent-minded as an adopt, as an adaptive mechanism. A coping mechanism. Exactly. Fifty-five years later, I'm diagnosed with ADHD, which is characterized by tuning out. Is it a disease? The heck it's a disease. It started as a coping mechanism. I'm also diagnosed with depression. Why? Because in that moment, I had to push my feelings down in order to not to burden my mother, who was already burdened enough. Create more peace and more, yeah. So I took that on, so I pushed on my feelings. I depressed my feelings. Then I have this depression. So are they diseases? Well, you can talk about them that way, but I say they began as coping mechanisms. Mm-hmm. And I'll tell you another story. I'm seventy-eight now, so six, seven years ago.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  I'm in San Francisco with a therapist, and I've taken mushrooms. Uh-huh. She works with mushrooms. And I've, I've worked with psychedelics, and it's one of the things I write about.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  And that, but this time, I'm the patient, I'm the client.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  And I'm lying there on the mat, under the influence of the psilocybin. And I know exactly who I am. I'm seventy-one years old. I'm a medical doctor, I'm a writer, I'm a speaker. I'm married to such as, you know, my wife Ray. This is a therapist, so I'm not like hallucinating. I know exactly where I am, but at the same time. I'm experiencing myself as a one-year-old infant.

• 6:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  And this therapist is my mom, is my mom. And I start crying and I say, "I'm so sorry I've made your life so difficult."

• 6:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  That's my one-year-old self. All of a sudden, under the influence, speaking up. I took it on that early that I'm responsible. Now, you talked about-

• 6:22Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  In our conversation before, you told me about how you were in this relationship and you couldn't leave it, even long after you realized it wasn't right for you. Because you took on the responsibility of how the other person would feel if you would, quote, "let them down." I'm telling you, that's your one-year-old speaking. That you took responsibility for the suffering of your parents.

• 6:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  And how you mustn't let anybody down, because it's your responsibility. We take this stuff on so early, without words, actually. They just become ingrained and then we live our lives out of it. Until something happens, like you did for you, your body rebelled.

• 7:04Lewis Howes?

  You have a breakdown or something happens, right? And you're like, either keep breaking down or it wakes you up and say, "Okay, why is this happening? What is off, what is out of alignment, what is, you know, where am I, out of integrity, whatever it might be?"

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 7:19Lewis Howes?

  And I feel, the challenge is, I was like, "I want to end this suffering." You know, I've repeated this pattern many times, I'm sick of the suffering. I'll do whatever. You know, I think when you, for me, I was like, "I've felt enough of this, I don't want it anymore." But it took so much courage to face these things, for me. And I know other people have deeper traumas or different traumas and it just seems so challenging for people.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  I wouldn't go there. I would not compare your trauma with anybody else's.

• 7:51Lewis Howes?

  Well, we all have our unique traumas, right? Different experiences that we face.

• 7:57Lewis Howes?

  Why is it so challenging for people to face it? And start addressing it? I was telling you, you know, I've been doing pretty intensive therapy for about a year and a half now, every two weeks.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:08Lewis Howes?

  Not because I feel like something's wrong with me anymore, I'm stressed more, because I want to maintain a level of peace.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:14Lewis Howes?

  And I want to continue to maintain peace.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Good for you.

• 8:17Lewis Howes?

  So, once I realized and started healing, I didn't say, "I'm good."

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:21Lewis Howes?

  I was like, "I want to go to the next level of..."

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 8:24Lewis Howes?

  "Peace, love, you know, an environment of beauty inside of my emotions." But why is it so hard for so many people to face it? And actually speak the shame, guilt, insecurity, you know, imperfection about them?

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Well, I think in your own work, you've touched upon very accurately on the why it's so difficult. For one thing, if you, if you just, just the words that you just used, peace and love and connection, if you had played that to your twenty-year-old self, how would he have responded?

• 8:57Lewis Howes?

  Uh, he'd be like, "Suck it up," or he'd be like, "What are you talking about? You're fine." Like, yeah, "Don't be a little wuss," or, you know, "Just work harder," you know?

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, but where would that have come from?

• 9:11Lewis Howes?

  I mean, just my entire conditioning growing up from sports and, you know...

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Okay, so that's, so that's that.

• 9:16Lewis Howes?

  The house, you know?

• 9:17Speaker 01

  So that's one of the factors, is the conditioning in this culture, okay?

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  I, I also say it would have come from intense fear.

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Because if you'd actually, it's very fearful to look at all that pain inside oneself.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  It's terrifying.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's terrifying. So there's intense fear.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  The, so there's the conditioning, as you say, then there's the, the fear, it really is fear, painful. You know, nobody wants to have pain, you know? Um, but that's called growing pains. And the third factor is, we all develop this personality. No, the personality, we think that's us, but it's not us.

• 9:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  The personality is the traits that we took on to survive our childhoods. Along with some genuine traits. So the personality is kind of a, an amalgam of, of childhood coping mechanisms and genuine qualities.

• 10:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, some good stuff, but then some also coping. Yeah, yeah. I remember, I used to be like, I was a fun-loving guy. I was like a kind, generous, but then when there was a trigger, like I was angry and, you know, defensive and guarded and things like that.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Or you talk about the various masks, the sexual mask, or the, um, or the

• 10:30Lewis Howes?

  Material mask.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  The aggressive mask, you know.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  I, I, when I started reading a chapter on the sexual mask, you wrote about some guy whose name I forget, but who's sort of the champion, picking out women. I wouldn't have been in his shoes for one split second. Poor bastard, I was thinking, you know, that this is what he has to do. But what's that? It's having to prove to himself that he's lovable. Where does that come from? You know, so, but we identify with it.

• 11:01Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  So we think we're the personality. I'm this sexually attractive guy, or I'm this aggressive guy, I'm this material guy who's gonna make it in the world, you know? And so we think that we are our personality. So it comes from, I say, three sources. One is the conditioning, the other is the fear for the pain, and thirdly, the identification with the personality. We think that's who we are, and we don't know who we'd be without it. All of which is all based on trauma.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's the identi-, you know, building this identity that, you know, and I talk about how the identity has supported you to accomplishing certain things, right? Or protecting you from certain things by having this identity.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:42Lewis Howes?

  But it's also not serving us to hold on to that identity if we want the next level of peace and freedom.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 11:49Lewis Howes?

  So it's, but it's so hard to kill an identity. It's like you've had this thing for decades, maybe, and you've gotta let go of this thing.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you see, I wouldn't even talk about killing. I mean, I, in, in my healing chapters of this book, I talk about, let's make friends with it. Like, for example. I have to, by the way, I have to be honest. I said that I wouldn't be in this guy's shoes for a minute. That's not true. Part of me was envying him. You know, even here, I'm seventy-eight and married fifty-three years. But I read about this guy who slept with all these women. Why couldn't I be that guy? You know, I don't want to go there and I wouldn't. I've long ago chosen not to. But, but there's still something that. Who doesn't want to be wanted that much?

• 12:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  You know?

• 12:33Lewis Howes?

  Something with the ego or the desire, yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  But if we didn't kill those parts, but made friends with them. If somebody came to me with that kind of pattern of, I'm not sexual guy. But they don't want to, but they realize that it's not. They might feel high for a moment, like any addict will.

• 12:57Lewis Howes?

  It's not fulfilling.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  It's not fulfilling. I wouldn't say kill that part of you. I'd say let's make friends with it. Let's find out what it's really trying to do for you. What it's trying to do for you is trying to make you feel wanted. Make you feel valuable. Make you feel desirable. Make you feel loved temporarily. Make you feel powerful. What happened to you that you don't feel lovable? That you don't feel desirable? That you don't feel powerful? You know, in other words, it's not a matter of getting rid of these parts or these aspects of ourselves. It's a question of actually getting to know them. And they all began as coping mechanisms. That man that you describe in your book, I guarantee is a highly traumatized human being.

• 13:40Lewis Howes?

  So when we start to ask ourselves this question that you're asking is what happened to you? Or when, you know, when did you feel not powerful or not lovable or not wanted?

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:51Lewis Howes?

  And let's say we're able to, someone watching or listening is able to assess themselves and actually be present.

• 14:00Lewis Howes?

  Really reflect on the painful moments of the past, which a lot of people aren't even willing to talk about it to themselves, right?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  For twenty-five years, I had a memory of being sexually abused and thought about it almost every day, like for a moment. You know, it would come, you know, at least weekly. Maybe not every day, but it was like a memory, yeah, that's there. You know, but I never told anyone for twenty-five years because it was so shameful. And I didn't want to be, you know, made fun of or all these things. And so if someone's able to self-assess and say, okay, I had this pain, this trauma, I felt not powerful or whatever it might be. What's the next step for them, once they start to journal about it and be aware of it? And they're like, I really want to heal, you know? What would be that next step in the process?

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it's not that I can prescribe, but sure. But it should be for everybody and there's many different ways of working. But one of the things I would address, first of all, is the shame. Like, one of the impacts of trauma is shame. Because children are narcissists by nature. When I say narcissist, I don't mean in a pathological negative sense. I mean, they think it's all about them.

• 15:10Lewis Howes?

  The world revolves around me.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Exactly. So if bad things are happening to me, it must be a must be a bad person. You know, number one. Number two, I didn't fight back.

• 15:25Lewis Howes?

  I couldn't defend myself.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  And so that makes me weak and, you know, and so I'm ashamed of that. Now, actually, when you look at it, the not fighting back is nature's coping mechanism. Part of your nervous system just freezes. Because if you fought back, what would happen?

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  Just depends on what age you are.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  No, but as a young child.

• 15:50Lewis Howes?

  If you fight back on...

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Against the sexual abuser.

• 15:53Lewis Howes?

  Oh, right.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  What would happen to you?

• 15:55Lewis Howes?

  Who knows? I mean, it could have been even worse.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  And were you in a position to run?

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  I was trapped in a bathroom.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  So the part of your nervous system that would have you fight or run away gets inactivated.

• 16:09Lewis Howes?

  It's protecting yourself.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  You're protecting yourself. And the part of the nervous system that freezes you, just be still. You get through this.

• 16:17Lewis Howes?

  Wait till it passes.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that takes over. So it's actually what you're ashamed about is actually the brilliance of your nervous system that protected you.

• 16:27Lewis Howes?

  But you're beating yourself up in retrospect, saying, I should have ran, I should have fought back, I should have done this.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  That's the first point.

• 16:35Lewis Howes?

  Man.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  The second point is,

• 16:40Speaker 01

  if I can ask you, how old were you when this happened to you?

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  Five.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  And how long did it go on for?

• 16:44Lewis Howes?

  It's probably ten, fifteen minutes, yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  No, but it was only one time?

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  One time.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Okay. Who did you speak to about it?

• 16:51Lewis Howes?

  No one.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, you don't have kids yet.

• 16:54Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  But if you did have a child, five years old, and this happened to you, who would you want them to speak to?

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  Me.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, if you found out that this happened to your child, and your child never told you, how would you explain that?

• 17:10Lewis Howes?

  How would I explain it to?

• 17:11Speaker 01

  How would you explain to yourself, why my child is not talking to me about this terrible thing that happened?

• 17:18Lewis Howes?

  I would explain it by saying, it's something I'm not doing, I'm not creating a safe environment to allow this child to speak up.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  And that was your primary trauma?

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  So the sexual abuse is a secondary trauma. As a matter of fact, the abuser, like you were bullied in school, you said? And the bullies can always sense the vulnerability, the bullies have like a laser.

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  The weakness in you.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  They have a laser like.

• 17:40Lewis Howes?

  You're an insecure, weak person, yeah.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Which, by the way, speaks to their own trauma.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  But, but, but, but they have laser like, like the physicians who abuse their, their, their patients, the spiritual leaders who do that to their followers.

• 17:57Lewis Howes?

  They see a weakness.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  They, they laser like they sense it. And that's who they pick on, and the bullies do the same thing. Now, that weakness, as we call it, comes from not having the solid support and protection and confidence and security in your family of origin. So that's the primary trauma. That's, that's, that's the first thing that happened.

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, that's the case for sure.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  So, to answer your question, then, if somebody comes to me with those issues, now, first of all, if somebody realizes those things, I'd say.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Don't try to do this on your own.

• 18:32Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Talk to somebody.

• 18:34Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, look, um, people with addictions, at least they have the 12 step groups. Where they can actually talk about it and people ideally will not judge them.

• 18:46Lewis Howes?

  It's a safe space to.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Safe space. Or you might have friends, or you might reach out to a professional, or you might have an intimate partner that relationship is close enough where you can actually share this, you know, but

• 19:00Speaker 01

  you have to um, bring it out of you. By the way, um,

• 19:07Speaker 01

  that just reminds me, uh, this is one of the ancient gospels written on the same time as the other gospels, is the Gospel of Thomas, in which Jesus says that what you shall bring out of you will save you. And what you don't bring out of yourself will doom you. He says something like that.

• 19:23Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  He was a supreme psychologist.

• 19:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  And so you gotta bring it out.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, what you suppress becomes more depressed, right? It's like.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's gotta start with that somewhere.

• 19:36Lewis Howes?

  You've gotta bring it out. And if, and if someone has a, what if they say, well, it wasn't that big of a deal. This thing that happened back in the day, I was a kid and it only happened a few times, whether it's sexual abuse or someone screaming at you, or you were neglected, or put in the corner, you know.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  I hear that all the time.

• 19:54Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't that big of a deal.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  I hear that all the time.

• 19:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we're coming. I shouldn't be that concerned about that. It was five, who cares, you know, it was like, what do we?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Okay, then that's a very simple way to answer that.

• 20:07Lewis Howes?

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• 20:52Lewis Howes?

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• 21:31Speaker 01

  No, no, no, not at all. If a five-year-old kid came to you and you were the uncle.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Uncle Louis. This guy did such and such to me. And I'm really scared and hurt. Would you say to them, "Oh, no big deal"?

• 21:52Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Think of all the other kids that worse things have happened to. Would you say that? Why wouldn't you say that?

• 21:59Lewis Howes?

  Because I'd want to be there for my nephew and make sure he felt supported and seen and loved.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  And what would be the impact if you did say that?

• 22:07Lewis Howes?

  I feel like it'd probably affect him for a long time if that was a pattern of that was the response that he got.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  But you see, that's what you're saying to yourself.

• 22:17Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  When you say that it's no big deal, you're saying to the five-year-old that was hurt, "It doesn't matter." In other words, there's no self-compassion there.

• 22:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  What you would never say to anybody else, you're saying to yourself. And one of the impacts of trauma is lack of self-compassion.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  And again, I

• 22:38Speaker 01

  If I may mention my book, The Myth of Normal. I talk about that, about how this idea of self-compassion. And I see it all the time. And so when somebody says to me, "No big deal," you know? I say, "Okay, take any other child in your position, plug them into that situation and tell them it's no big deal." And of course, I wouldn't.

• 22:59Lewis Howes?

  But people do. They do say these things to their kids or to their, right? Their nephews or nieces. They're saying like, "Ah, you'll be all right," you know? And I think it's because they don't have the emotional courage to handle the wide range of emotions because they probably suppress the emotions themselves.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I mean, that's the whole point.

• 23:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Is that they're not, they're not comfortable with the child's pain.

• 23:23Lewis Howes?

  Somebody crying, they're like, "I can't handle it," right?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  They can't handle it, yeah.

• 23:26Lewis Howes?

  You know, my daddy should be like, "Stop crying," you know? Just stop. There was no like hugging and like, he had a lot of love and affection in other ways, but he couldn't handle the crying and the scream. Yeah, the emotions.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Well, one of the, in the book, I talk about the essential needs of children. And one of them is that they're given the freedom to feel all their emotions, particularly sadness and grief and pain. Also joy and everything else.

• 23:55Lewis Howes?

  Is it a symptom of trauma or unresolved healing that causes this disorder? And if we heal the trauma,

• 24:07Lewis Howes?

  will we be able to eliminate these symptoms or these disorders?

• 24:11Speaker 02

  I think we'll be able to get rid of a lot of stuff. A lot of it. Some of it, as I mentioned, because there is that genetic loading and we got to think of the genetics that we talked about already, right? Like, we're talking about lineages of genetic loadings. So, you know, if we start doing the work now, maybe we'll see a lot less of these disorders happening within our families and our communities. So there is a lot that we can do to actually rectify the abundance of mental illness that's out there, right? I believe that there is a lot of the mental illness that exists in the world that has an undercurrent of trauma. And we just haven't talked about that undercurrent or that possibility as much.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  But I don't know if we'll be able to absolve ourselves of 100% of the mental illness in the world. But I think that we can do a really good job in this generation to break cycles.

• 25:05Lewis Howes?

  Would an individual eliminate these mental health issues on an individual level if they are willing to do the deep healing work? Because essentially, because I feel like, correct me if I'm wrong, are these, these are like symptoms of trauma. You didn't grow up depressed. Certain things happened, an event happened, an environment continued to foster the feelings of depression.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  The state of depression.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:33Lewis Howes?

  And if we can heal the memory, the trauma, the event, and reconnect to our purest self, our whole human self, wouldn't those things start to go away?

• 25:45Speaker 02

  That's precisely the goal. So, you know, where we started off with psychology and psychiatry is we started off with symptom management. A lot of psychiatry, you know, we're still kind of there a little bit.

• 25:56Lewis Howes?

  Which is like, here's the drug to manage the symptoms.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Band-aid.

• 26:00Lewis Howes?

  But that's not healing.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:02Lewis Howes?

  That's not resolving, that's just managing it.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Precisely.

• 26:06Lewis Howes?

  But that doesn't do anything to bring back to wholeness.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Yes, and integrate the person.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  Integrating the healing, right?

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Exactly, and that's the goal. That's the goal for me, that's the goal in my practice. I want full integration of that person. I want them to see, really see their authentic self. Some people have never even had an opportunity to see, like, who they could be at their true core self. Because it's been masked by so much of the trauma and the symptomatology that's associated with the trauma, like the depression, anxiety and all those things.

• 26:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so you believe that people can heal these mental health challenges as well if they integrate fully?

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Many of them, especially the ones that, you know, because I think we have like bipolar disorder and we have, you know, schizophrenia that have a different mechanism to them. But many of them, absolutely.

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  But many of the ones that a lot of people are facing, depression, ADD.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  The big ones.

• 26:59Lewis Howes?

  ADD, ADHD.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Depression especially, yeah.

• 27:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:04Lewis Howes?

  How important is finding a meaningful purpose in life supports you in overcoming feeling depressed or depression?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  It's like so critical.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100%. I mean, like when we're talking about what happens after trauma, meaning making is at the center. It's like one of the biggest things because you have, you have to see your life having some sort of value and that there's meaning associated with your life and with everything that's within your life in order to actually like even feel motivated to do the, the heavy lifting that is the healing work to get yourself to the other side. So you have to have meaning in that journey. Meaning making, it's alchemized in that journey. It's created in that journey, right? But I, I think at the very least, you have to have hope that meaning can, meaning making can be possible.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Because what it sounds like to me is a lot of people attach meaning in a more negative, harmful state to events, to words, to actions that happen around them.

• 28:13Lewis Howes?

  And therefore that meaning causes more depression, ADHD, or you know, negative thoughts, all these different things that hurt us.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:21Lewis Howes?

  But if we created a different meaning around the event with the words or the event, uh, the breakup with a loss of a career, created a new meaning around it and had a different intention, different purpose moving forward, we wouldn't have those mental challenges as much.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think people, you know, just haven't been trained to ask themselves the right questions around meaning making, right? And so.

• 28:42Lewis Howes?

  What's the right questions?

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Well, the right questions are, you know, well.

• 28:46Lewis Howes?

  Someone, if somebody experiences a traumatic event or big T or little T, what questions should we ask?

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, we should be asking, you know, um. So, questions around, well, let's talk about what was learned in that circumstance. It's a really hard question to ask because sometimes people will be like, you really, you think that that needed to happen? No, it didn't need to happen.

• 29:08Lewis Howes?

  It did happen.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  It happened.

• 29:09Lewis Howes?

  Can't change it.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  You can't. That's, that's in your history now. But what can we take from that experience? And it doesn't even need to be the traumatic event itself, but your response, your reaction. What can we take from that to learn how to now create a healing protocol for you? And it's, it's about, you know, being able to ask questions that get people thinking outside of the box because what happens when you're in a state of trauma is that you're, you're frozen in many ways. Your thoughts are frozen. You, you start thinking a lot of the same things, right? Like it's a, a lot of protective functions. Your, your feelings are frozen in time, like people like constantly feel worry, anxiety, like a lot of things that are, you know, just them being in a protective state.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  And so if we can start asking questions to freeze some of that up, that's, that's gonna be like really key. But I, I like that question even though, you know, I, I think it can veer us in different directions, but I'm open to that whenever it comes to work with a client, right? Because wherever we go, I'm with them. I'm going with you and we're following that path.

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  If someone stays committed to their story of, of meaning, that it was this horrible event and it ruined my life. The divorce, the job loss, the injury, whatever it might be. What happens if they hold on to the meaning in a negative way as opposed to, that was a traumatic event. I don't wish it upon anyone, but here's what I learned from it. Here's what I gained from it. Here's what I'm gonna do with it in a positive way. What happens to those?

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Well, the way that I interpret that is that that person is, one, still in a state of fear. They're not ready to, to really get curious about what other definitions meaning can have in their life. They're just... Really stuck on the one definition that it tarnished their lives, that they, you know, it got in the way and they're just stuck there, right? And so if that's the case, then my role as a clinician or their role as a person that wants to get out of it, hopefully, is is to work on the fear. You gotta work on where is fear trapped? How is the nervous system operating around fear, right? Like where can we free them up in a bodily sense?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Because the nervous system requires a lot of that body-based work. And so we have to like really get curious about that and like go in that direction versus, you know, the the the questions are very mind-focused, right? But we need the body-based practices in order to create safety in the body.

• 31:44Lewis Howes?

  To release also, right? To release the fear, the pain, the trauma and reconnect to the safety of your body. Is that right?

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Exactly. And so that when a person can feel that there is safety in their body, they can feel that they can actually go into the depths of their minds in a way that doesn't feel scary and existential.

• 32:02Lewis Howes?

  Right. Speaking of fear, I saw somewhere recently, I don't know if this is true, but I saw somewhere recently that we are, that human beings are born with three fears. The fear of loud noises, the fear of falling, and the fear of abandonment. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, we tend to build, add more fears as time go on. I don't know if that's true, if those are the only three or we don't have fears at all, but but it seems like we gather, we collect more fears through childhood and adulthood. Why do you think we gather so many fears and collect them?

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Well, I think you're talking about like primary fears, right? Like those feel like primary fears to me. Like they're like what you start off with. As a baby, you're gonna have that startle response. As a baby, you're gonna need to feel deeply connected and attuned to a caregiver.

• 32:55Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise, you don't live.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Basically, right? And so like, it's basically a fear of losing life or a fear of losing safety. So it makes a lot of sense, but the accumulation of it also makes sense because we operate in mental representations and categories, basically. So we have specific categories in our minds that are primarily created in our childhood. And then everything else that happens in life, we put in the different categories and the buckets of our minds. And they just start accumulating and growing. So if you have a big fear bucket, then you're gonna have a lot of. fears that are gonna, you know, like, come into your life and stay there because your fear bucket is just, you know, so enormous.

• 33:37Muniba Mazari?

  I was always a very grateful person. You know, not before the accident, you know, I used to crib a lot. Because I was too young and I was too naive. But you know, with time, yes, with time I realized that, you know, everyone is fighting an unseen battle, Louis, everyone. And we are so good at the art of concealing the pain that we are in, all of us. You know, the methodology changes. You know, there are certain ways that we conceal pain, sometimes we share, sometimes we don't. But we all are going through something in life every day, you know. And I realized that if I think that I'm the one who's the most broken one, no. I have traveled around the world, I have met so many people.

• 34:22Muniba Mazari?

  And they had shared their very personal stories of how broken they are. And let me tell you, none of them were in the wheelchair.

• 34:32Muniba Mazari?

  So there are so many people who are walking around, who are perfectly fine, they are running their businesses. They are so broken from within. All they want is to be understood. They want someone who can understand their pain. You know, and I feel so blessed that when people look at me, when they see me in the wheelchair, maybe, you know, they just think that because she is in pain, we can talk to her because she can understand what we are going through.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think so many people are broken in the world? Who maybe

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  aren't in a wheelchair, who have able-bodied, let's say, don't have a disformed body or something, but they're broken. Where do you think that brokenness is coming from for so many people?

• 35:21Muniba Mazari?

  Too many expectations from people. Too many expectations. You know, we want to get into a relationship because we want happiness.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 35:30Muniba Mazari?

  We want to feel complete, right? Soulmates, no, you are your own soulmate, period. You know? If you are not in a good relationship with yourself, you will be miserable, even if you are in a relationship with someone. That's why people are broken. My happiness cannot be taken by someone because my happiness does not come from someone.

• 35:54Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 35:55Muniba Mazari?

  Nobody is giving me my joy. I am the reason of my own joy. If we manage to understand this tiny little truth about life,

• 36:06Muniba Mazari?

  we will heal. And time doesn't heal you, you heal you. You need to sit down with yourself and think, do you love yourself enough? You know? And if you love yourself enough and you believe in self-love, no external force will ever be able to break you.

• 36:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. How do we learn to love ourselves? If we have been telling ourselves for so long, I'm not lovable, or I had this accident, or, you know, I went through a breakup in a relationship and they left me, or they abandoned me, or whatever it might be. How do we, how do we not let outside factors dictate our feelings about ourself? And, and not let the fear of abandonment of people or people's love hold us back from loving ourselves?

• 37:01Muniba Mazari?

  Yes, the fear of abandonment, we all have that. And we need to overcome this fear. You know, when, I always say, when wrong people leave, right things start to happen.

• 37:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 37:12Muniba Mazari?

  And we all are living a life story. You have your own story, I have my story. My brothers have their story, my mother has her own story. And when you find yourself in the wrong story, just leave. If someone is not adding value to your life story, or if you are not adding value to someone's life story, leave. Sometimes it takes letting go to realize you're holding on to nothing. We are too busy clinging on to those relationships.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:44Muniba Mazari?

  Which are not meant to be in our journey, you know, and that's why I say that these people are so toxic with with time they become so toxic for you. That you know what? Your presence in their life is their only definition.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:00Muniba Mazari?

  And they will never want you to leave because they're so weak, they want to stay in your shadow. So you need to pick and choose. This person is toxic, leave. Liberate yourself by setting all these extra people free who do not belong to your journey. You know, and these people will always weigh you down. And if there's something is weighing you down, how will you fly high?

• 38:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 38:26Muniba Mazari?

  You know, and fear of abandonment, if you can manage to overcome this fear again. When you are on your own completely. That is where you will understand that solitude is very powerful.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  So powerful.

• 38:42Muniba Mazari?

  It's very powerful.

• 38:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:44Muniba Mazari?

  You know, because even in that silence, you're having a conversation. I mean, there is no energy vampire around me. I'm on my own and I'm manifesting the best things for myself. I would never trade my solitude to anything because when I am alone on my own. I am the best version of myself.

• 39:07Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:07Muniba Mazari?

  Because I'm kind to myself. Yes.

• 39:10Lewis Howes?

  You're kind to yourself?

• 39:12Muniba Mazari?

  Yes.

• 39:15Lewis Howes?

  How much time did you spend alone after the accident?

• 39:21Muniba Mazari?

  Uh, so I have this this really cool um habit. I switch off. So even when I'm, you know, surrounded by a lot of people. I'm actually not there most of the times.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:33Muniba Mazari?

  Yes, I'm just thinking, you know what, recently I was thinking about something that when I was talking about that how you know, this beautiful balance of strength and vulnerability makes us who we are. I was thinking about it the other day that I've experienced this balance on daily basis.

• 39:51Muniba Mazari?

  You know, when I see my social media, you know, when I read emails and people sending beautiful messages that you know how your words have empowered us and you know, because of you, we're not never going to give up. It gives me so much strength, you know, and I say to myself, oh, my God, I'm so strong. And then at the nighttime, when I'm thirsty, I'm unable to get up and get a glass of water for myself.

• 40:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 40:17Muniba Mazari?

  Right? That's my reality. And how vulnerable I am at that moment. So this strength and this vulnerability makes us who we are. So I need to have my own moment with myself where I am willing to understand myself better. That if I am vulnerable, that's okay. I'm strong too. And the perfect balance of these two things make me who I am.

• 40:43Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. Uh. I'm I'm so fascinated by your story and every time I see your content, it makes me smile every time I see you post a video or a photo. I'm always just rooting for you. I'm so excited for you and your life and the impact you make. And you are so much more talented than just an artist. Yeah, at first you wanted to be an artist and then you thought you couldn't be. You were like, these don't look good. But now you're, you know, selling your art, your arts and galleries. It's really inspiring. But you're also a massive activist. You're, you know, a TV anchor, model, you did modeling, you sing, and you're a speaker and you you motivate millions of people around the world.

• 41:28Lewis Howes?

  You could have not done any of it. You could have said, I just want to be an artist and just go after that one thing. But you decided to go for more. What? What? When and why did you say, I want to start sharing this story and start putting this message out there in a bigger way? And revealing these things about yourself that maybe you were scared to do?

• 41:50Muniba Mazari?

  You know, um, I remember when I gave my very first talk, that was TEDx. And it actually happened when I decided and I manifested that I'm going to overcome the fear of facing people. That's so ironic, that a public speaker was once scared of facing people.

• 42:04Lewis Howes?

  I was for sure, yeah.

• 42:06Muniba Mazari?

  I know. So what happened was, so I gave my very first TED Talk. And after my TED Talk, a girl from the audience, she came to me and she was crying and she said, can I give you a hug? And I said, sure. So she gave me a hug and she said, um, your ten minute TED Talk has solved ten problems of my life. And she said, today you made me realize that those ten problems never existed. They were just in my head. And I was overthinking. And because of you, I'm never going to give up.

• 42:34Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 42:35Muniba Mazari?

  You know, in that moment, in the flashback, I could hear my mother saying, one day, God will show you how did he choose you out of so many for this test? And that was the moment of realization that, you know what? If my words can change someone's perspective, maybe this is my true calling in life. You know, and as they say that, in the end, what matters is how many lives you have touched. So art is my comfort zone, Lewis. You know, I can sit in the corner of my room in a cozy environment, have a cup of coffee and paint and sell the work, make both ends meet, pay the bills, raise my son and live. But, I mean, is that enough?

• 43:19Muniba Mazari?

  It's not enough. Because comfort zone is a good place to be, but nothing ever grows there.

• 43:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 43:25Muniba Mazari?

  So if you really want to grow as a person, if you really want to learn and unlearn, we need to tap on all the abilities that we have. We are so blessed with immense potential, which remains untapped, because we are too busy doing nine to five. We are too busy paying bills. And we live the same routine for so many years and then we end up calling it life. It's not life. It's not. You know, I realized later that, you know, I was labeled as the first wheelchair-bound model, the first wheelchair-bound singer, the first wheelchair-bound anchor, first wheelchair- you know, and it was so much rubbed in my face that I said, you know what, I might be

• 44:08Muniba Mazari?

  the first one to do all this, but I wouldn't be the last. Hmm. I had to pave path for so many people who are supremely talented, who are differently able, who are supremely talented, but maybe, maybe they were just a bit scared to take the first step. I took the first step. I broke those barriers. At least I tried, you know, and, and I now I see a lot of young boys and girls doing amazing work. Why? Because now it's normal. It's normal for a wheelchair user to smile. It's normal for a wheelchair user, may it be a boy or a girl, to look good, to wear lipstick, to look nice, you know, to face the world. It's normal now.

• 44:52Muniba Mazari?

  And even right now, when being an anchor person, you know, I'm working for the national TV of Pakistan, and when I'm doing my show, I'm always thinking about that little boy or girl, you know, sitting in a far-flung village watching my show, and I think about them that, you know, they might be thinking that if a girl or a woman in a wheelchair can do this, we can do that too.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend, leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts, and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you, and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter

• 45:56Lewis Howes?

  and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.