Heal First, Love Better: The Repair Framework That Changes Everything

Baya Voce opens up about the hidden cost of living in a world that promises everything without friction while our relationships demand the exact opposite. She shares the counterintuitive truth that bending over backwards in relationships isn't love, it's self-abandonment, and explains why most couples fail not because they fight, but because they never learned to repair properly. Through raw personal stories and research-backed frameworks, Baya breaks down the difference between accepting someone's limitations and enabling their dysfunction. This conversation will shift how you think about conflict forever, giving you practical tools to turn your messiest relationship moments into opportunities for genuine intimacy and growth. Sign up for Baya’s newsletterFollow Baya on InstagramIn this episode you will:Discover why your nervous system needs friction to build resilience and how avoiding small conflicts actually creates bigger ones laterTransform your relationship arguments using the repair framework that stops the blame cycle before it spiralsLearn the critical difference between change and effort in partnerships and why confusing them keeps you stuck in resentmentBreak free from the cultural myth that bending over backwards equals love and start setting boundaries without guiltMaster the art of staying present during emotional reactions instead of running away or people-pleasing your way through conflictFor more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1839For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Baya Voce pt. 1 – greatness.lnk.to/1836SCMatthew Hussey – greatness.lnk.to/1782SCLiz Gilbert – greatness.lnk.to/1681SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Previously on The School of Greatness.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  There is no truth in relationship. There are just two people who are having their own experiences and you live in your world and I live over here in my world. And as long as we're arguing for the truth, we're both gonna lose because the truth doesn't actually exist. If we're fighting the truth, we are fighting a losing battle. Period, full stop.

• 0:21Lewis Howes?

  So I'm curious then, how long were you dating men until you started dating your wife or women?

• 0:27Speaker 01

  I was dating men basically from elementary school until I met my wife.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I never thought, there wasn't ever a coming out story. In fact, when I first met Emmy.

• 0:37Lewis Howes?

  This is the story.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  I know, I know. I know, there was, I, when I first met Emmy, I-

• 0:43Lewis Howes?

  How old were you when you started dating her?

• 0:46Speaker 01

  My mid 30s.

• 0:47Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:48Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  And-

• 0:49Lewis Howes?

  So you were dating a man right before that?

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:52Lewis Howes?

  Were you ever engaged to a man or married?

• 0:53Speaker 01

  I was engaged at one point. I was engaged to a man.

• 0:56Lewis Howes?

  At one point you were engaged to a man?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 0:58Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So what's, I guess what's the-

• 1:01Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 1:02Lewis Howes?

  What's the-

• 1:04Speaker 01

  What happened?

• 1:05Lewis Howes?

  Sure, tell me what happened. I mean, what happened? Tell me what happened or why, why go from, you know, dating man after man after man to now being married to a woman?

• 1:17Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I, I don't know is the true answer. But that's, that's just the truth. I, there's a term that I'm not thinking of right now. That someone's gonna tell us exactly what it is.

• 1:33Lewis Howes?

  Tell us in the comments below.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Don't worry, I know someone will tell this. But it's basically that we're raised in a straight culture. And so we, we are, we, you know, you may think you're straight until all of a sudden Emmy, my wife, walks up and I'm like, huh, what's that? That I feel that I've never felt for another woman before.

• 1:51Lewis Howes?

  Were you attracted to men though before?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  I'm still attracted to men.

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  I'm still attracted to men.

• 1:55Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  In fact, I mean, God forbid Emmy and I ever break up. She's, I hope we never do, but I would be very confused about what to do. I would not know whether to date a woman or a man. I wouldn't have any idea what to do.

• 2:07Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're not attracted to other women.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  That's not, but that's not necessarily true, actually. I, my aperture has opened since being with Emmy. I didn't, Emmy was like a, I did not imagine I would be attracted to a woman. I saw her and something lit up in me and I was like, oh. I remember making out with a chick when I was like 21 years old, but didn't think anything of it.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Literally didn't think anything of it, but never in a million years could I have ever guessed.

• 2:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm very open minded. And so I think my level of openness was like, was such that I could even.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  Explore.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Explore.

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  So what happened with the engagement to the man? How long were you?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  Together with or engaged for, like, what was the total relationship?

• 2:49Speaker 01

  This is a, this is, this was a tricky one.

• 2:51Lewis Howes?

  Cause I don't know much about your backstory. You don't have a lot of this online.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  No, no, and especially this one. This is the, and this is the first time we'll talk about this. This is, I'll talk about this publicly. So, so I met a guy on Tinder who, I was living in Salt Lake. He had just moved to Salt Lake. And he, out of the gate, was basically everything I could have ever asked for.

• 3:13Lewis Howes?

  Like love bombing everything, every, or more looked like?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Know that term then.

• 3:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  But yes, that's exactly what was happening.

• 3:21Lewis Howes?

  This wasn't the Tinder swindler, was it?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Well, it wasn't not the Tinder swindler.

• 3:25Lewis Howes?

  But it wasn't that guy.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  No, no, it wasn't that guy. No.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  But it.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  And honestly, as I'm thinking about this, I'm like, oh, funny. This is probably in some ways what I did to.

• 3:34Lewis Howes?

  Other guys.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Other guys, but didn't realize I was doing it. Anyhow, he, he was just making himself into the exact version that I, I couldn't, at that point.

• 3:42Lewis Howes?

  The dream guy.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  The dream guy. I'm in my young twenties or mid, in mid twenties, excuse me.

• 3:46Lewis Howes?

  He's tall, dark and handsome. He's got money. He's spiritual. He's got a great family.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Wasn't any of those things, but.

• 3:54Lewis Howes?

  Everything else.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  He did fit whatever bill I wanted him to fit at that point. And so we got engaged after being together for a year. And as.

• 4:03Lewis Howes?

  And it was like an explosive year, I'm assuming.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Oh, it was.

• 4:06Lewis Howes?

  Love bombing you, gifts and presents, charming, travel.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  The whole thing. The whole thing.

• 4:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  And.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  Got engaged after one year.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  One year.

• 4:14Lewis Howes?

  And then how long was the engagement?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Not long. Basically right after the engagement ended, we, or excuse me, after, after he proposed to me, things started to go big time. And all of a sudden, we were looking at houses and every time we would almost put a contract into a house, he would have some reason or another why we shouldn't do that. And then I went, I didn't want to move in. At that point, I was kind of romanticizing, moving to get, moving in together after getting engaged. So we didn't live together.

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  And I will never forget this. I went over to his house.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  And we had just gotten into a fight, but it wasn't actually a big fight. I don't even remember what it was.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  It's a disagreement.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  We were, yeah, and but we, I went over to his house to talk about it and I look around his house. I walk in and all of our photos were gone. And I was like, what is going on here? And he sits me down on the couch and he's like, this is over.

• 5:09Lewis Howes?

  Was it like a month after the engagement?

• 5:11Speaker 01

  This was a few months, a few months. It just dead like, like his heart had completely left the building and I'm like, what, what are you talking about? By the way, I didn't want to get, I didn't think I wanted to get married. So even getting to the point of engagement was a massive deal for me. So he, he, he tells me it's because I don't want kids and he does. But we had talked about this. Again, I, I had this whole story about why I didn't want kids. I've changed my mind, but anyway. I thought it and we date one talked about this. I was very clear. This is, and he was totally okay with it.

• 5:41Lewis Howes?

  Then he realized I do want kids or that's what he says. Yeah, yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  So he tells me this is the reason why he's breaking up with me. There's nothing you can do. It's over.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  Even if you say, okay, I want kids now.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  So I, I, I begged him. I literally, I was on the floor with my hands in prayer, just saying, sobbing. Please just give me a week to think about it. Please just give me, and he is stone cold. There is no emotion in his face. And he just looks at me and he says, no, it's over. Like nothing, there was nothing I could say. So I left, I left his house being so confused. I had no idea what was going on. Now. Right before this, we had planned a trip to Mexico. We actually didn't go on that many vacations. So this was a big deal that we were going to Mexico. He had gotten us this hotel. We were going with some friends. He had gotten us supposedly some very nice hotel. Our friends couldn't afford it. They were staying somewhere else. We were staying in this other hotel.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  24 hours or 40, so, so, so, I don't know, one to two days before we leave. He calls me and he's like, hey, we can't go on this trip anymore. You're really stressed. I don't want to stress you out anymore. We're not going to go on this trip. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm fine. We can go on this trip. And he was like, no, no, no. I'm launching a business. We're not going to go on this trip. And I was like, what? This was a big deal. Like I didn't go on vacation a lot. This was a, I was like, what do you mean? Our friends are going this, you can't just cancel this trip. And he, and he has all these reasons why he's launching this business and he says, but you can go without me. You can go without me. And I'm like, I'm not gonna, of course I'm not gonna go without you. Anyhow, so that happens, you know, that was maybe a few weeks before. Then he breaks up with me, then I am super confused. I I'm talking to my friends about like, what's, what just happened?

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Like, I, this came out of nowhere and a friend of mine goes, maybe just call that hotel in Mexico.

• 7:24Lewis Howes?

  Let's see if you actually booked it.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Uh huh. And there was no reservation under his name. And that sent me down a rabbit hole. He walked me around his college campus at one point, telling me about the, his football team that he played on. He was never on this football team. He told me he was going to school at the University of Utah and he moved to Utah to go to school there. He didn't even apply. He told me he worked at the hospital called, he never worked at the hospital. Like, it was, it was lie after lie. And so, and by the way, at this point, I'm a matchmaker. I have a monthly segment on ABC, talk, the local ABC channel, talking about dating advice. I'm like, Utah's dating, you know, I'm young, but I'm, you know, whatever. So anyway, I'm, I'm doing all of this while this is all happening.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Like, the, the amount of, I never thought this could happen to somebody like me. In a million years, the amount of shame that I felt.

• 8:17Lewis Howes?

  You're like, I'm the one giving advice or helping others with their relationships. And yet.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  This is happening to me.

• 8:22Lewis Howes?

  I got duped or he was lying or whatever.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  And I didn't see it because the love bombing was so strong.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I didn't see it coming even a little bit. And, and I, it was not only the love bombing was so strong, but I wanted to see in him or us of a future that was never going to exist.

• 8:40Lewis Howes?

  Man.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  And that was.

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  You wanted to see in him or the, the relationship, a future that was never going to exist.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had this idea of what love could look like. And the thing about love bombing is what, and unhealthy manipulative dynamics in general, is that that's the thing that keeps you coming back, right? You, you keep coming back to this, wait, it was like this, can it get back there? It was like this, can it get, and it never gets back there.

• 9:07Lewis Howes?

  You're in the power struggle constantly.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Constantly.

• 9:10Lewis Howes?

  You want to go back to soulmate, this is perfect, everything's amazing. Let's go back to where it was. It never goes back.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  No, but listen, that's what had me go into the research. That's what had me go into school. That's what had me, I mean, that relationship kicked off. For me, I was interested in relationships before, obviously.

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  You became obsessed.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Because I also wanted to know what it was about me that got me into something like that.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  Of course. I think I could relate to that in like, just going through five kind of stressful relationships that, you know, again, we have to both take, like you said, responsibility for our part in being in something, not doing deeper research, or not asking questions, or when, you know, something felt off, like, you know, I did similar things where I was like, huh, what is that? You know, why did they ever bring their friends around? Why do they hide this part of their life? Why do they not talk about this earlier phase of their life? Why do they, whatever it is. And just thinking, oh, but they're amazing, like, everything's fine. It's like, we have to both, or everyone watching or listening has to take responsibility for those signs, or signals, or just saying, hmm, maybe I jumped in too quickly. I did that a lot, too. It was like, let's just jump in, and

• 10:13Lewis Howes?

  it's exciting and fun and amazing. And I had multiple relationships, probably five or six long-term relationships, between one and three years, whatever, since I was, whatever, 18, that all ended. And it wasn't until I took full responsibility that I was the common denominator of all these.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:31Lewis Howes?

  That I was the one that needed to heal the wounded parts in me that lack courage to ask those courageous questions, or hold space when there was an explosion, as opposed to giving in, like a chameleon, or whatever it might be. I needed to regulate my emotions first, and then meet people from a different lens, rather than meeting people from a wounded lens, without doing the work.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  I will say, though, that part of us learning how to regulate our nervous systems is practice.

• 11:05Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  So it's really easy to

• 11:07Lewis Howes?

  Under the fire.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Do the work when you're single.

• 11:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, well, there's nothing

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm fine.

• 11:12Lewis Howes?

  But it's in the relationship when it's stressful.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:15Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting you say that, because when I got, started to cut you off here, when I was

• 11:19Speaker 01

  No, no, please.

• 11:20Lewis Howes?

  When I was in the end of a previous relationship.

• 11:25Lewis Howes?

  There was a time where I was just like, it was like a year of just intense power up and down, up and down every few days. It's like repair and then pop and struggle, repair, struggle. It was like exhausting. And we, and I was like, I'm, I finally was like, I can't do this anymore unless we do therapy. And she resisted it for about a year. And I was just like, I'm done unless we can do this. This is exhausting. We finally agreed, we do therapy. And after a couple of months, I remember being like, oh, I cannot be in this relationship. It was clear. Like I tried, I wanted it, but I was like, it's clear. I cannot be in this relationship. And I remember talking to the therapist. I was like, I think I'm gonna end it right now. Which was, took a lot of courage for me just to even do that. Cause I never wanted to end relationships. Cause I thought it was a

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  failure if it ended, right? So I was like, I want to work to the very end. It's like, I'm willing to do whatever it takes. But then it's like, sometimes what it takes is just like moving on. And the therapist said, you can do that right now, but I worry if you do it right now without integrating these tools in this pain, in the relationship, you might just do the same thing again in the future. So again, I'm not here to tell you what to do. Like it's your life. And I think when a, when a therapist or a coach tells you do this or do that, I think you have to like, understand that. She was like, I wouldn't recommend ending the relationship right now. I would recommend you applying what you're learning so you can integrate it and have more

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  safety in chaos. And that's what I did for three months. I mean, I spent like three months of dealing with almost every week, a silent treatment for a couple of days, antics, screaming, all these things. And I just said, I see what you're doing. When you're ready to talk, we can talk, but not until you're calm. And I would spend days in the same home without speaking to someone who just wanted to throw these kind of things to get a reaction. Cause that was

• 13:15Speaker 01

  What ended up happening?

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  After a couple of months, I just said, this isn't working. I want the best for you. Like calmly ended it and just said, I want the best for you. We don't have alignment on our values and our vision. And that's okay. And I want the best for you. And I want to keep doing therapy and healing it. And I know I'm not perfect. I want the best for you, but this is not working. And she didn't like that, you know, she didn't want that. She wanted me to keep, you know, giving in to whatever. And then I felt actually peace with both in me because I was handling conflict without running away from it.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:48Lewis Howes?

  Without stuffing it or running away from it, I was facing it for months and it wasn't comfortable. I didn't enjoy it. It's not what I wanted, but it gave me confidence and courage that, oh, I can handle this again if that happens. And I can respond differently than how I've responded for decades. And that's been a beautiful blessing, integrating tools in the chaos when it doesn't feel good.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Well, and then you carry it on to your next relationship.

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  And that's what I've done. And that's what it's allowed me to have harmony in my soul.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  It is the, it's like exposure therapy.

• 14:24Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  You know.

• 14:25Lewis Howes?

  You don't want it.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  You don't want.

• 14:26Lewis Howes?

  You want to run away from it as fast as possible.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  As fast as possible, but we, we need, you know, I'm, I'm pretty claustrophobic and have been my whole life. And it's something I've worked on my whole life. I will tell you the only thing.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  You need to bury yourself in a coffin.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  I've tried it.

• 14:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  I've tried every single thing you could think of to work with this. And the thing that has worked the best over and over is little by little exposing myself to small spaces. And, and so this is what we need to do with our nervous.

• 14:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Our nervous systems need this. Our nervous systems need to come up against friction and know that we're okay. And then see that we're safe and then do it again and again and again. We need to build a resilience. Now, this is tricky because we live in a virtual world that is more and more becoming frictionless. It's helping us, we, we don't need to leave our couch to do anything.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  But the real world of your relationship requires friction, friction. So now we're living in a world where more and more we're expecting frictionless experiences over here in the virtual world, but what we actually need, and now it doesn't match up with what's happening in the real world. And. So what we actually need time and time again is to come up against, it's like cold exposure, right? You get in a cold bath and it sucks the first time and you get out after five seconds. And then the next day you get in in your seven seconds and the next day you get in in your 10 seconds and before you know it, after a month or two or three minutes. That's a big deal, but there's no way you could have sat in three minutes at the beginning. So what does that actually look like? Oftentimes it looks like dealing with friction

• 16:07Speaker 01

  outside of tension that's happening with you and your partner. So maybe your partner has something, you know, they have an issue at work and you're talking to them about that, right? So you're like, okay, that sounds like, that sounds like it's really hard. Or with small little things that you would normally brush under the rug, right? So like, maybe we're talking the thermostat, right? That's something that you've could, you like it cold and your partner likes it a little bit warmer. And so you're okay with it being cold and, or you know, you'll, you'll just like deal with it. Okay. Well, what if you actually said, hey, do you mind if we turn it up a little bit and then dealt with whatever tension you feel? I mean, this is why boundaries are so hard to set. It's not the boundary itself that's hard. It's the repercussions in the aftermath after. But if we, and I, I will speak to.

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  The reaction to a boundary.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:51Lewis Howes?

  Hey, this doesn't work for me. This, I'm, you know, I'm not giving into this or I'm going to stay here. And the reaction to someone not liking the boundary.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Oh, it's the hardest part. That's the thing that we need to work. That's the nervous system.

• 17:03Lewis Howes?

  And be in it when someone's reacting, right?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  It's so hard.

• 17:05Lewis Howes?

  Like you mentioned there, it's a good analogy. It's like, we almost need to have a nervous system thermometer, thermometer where we are able to have extreme heats and extreme colds and still feel comfortable. Like we need to be able to expand our range of emotional tension.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:22Lewis Howes?

  So that we can, maybe we don't like it, but we can handle it.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  And I wouldn't even say it's comfortable. I actually don't know if it ever, but, but you know that it's not going to throw you.

• 17:30Lewis Howes?

  It's not going to kill you.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you trust, you trust that you have, you have a, this, I think, building capacity, nervous system capacity is one of the most important skills we can build.

• 17:42Lewis Howes?

  Every neuroscientist I've interviewed.

• 17:46Lewis Howes?

  Almost all of them, when I say, what's the number one skill that every human being should have? These are neuroscientists and brain surgeons that I interview that I ask this question to. They say the number one skill is emotional regulation. Emotional regulation. And you mentioned before, this is something that most of us, probably 99% of us are never taught in schools or by our parents. Unless you have a parent that has been trained on how to do this themselves. We're usually reacting or responding or mimicking uh someone who has never been trained in this. And so it's no one to blame. It's not like we have to blame someone in our lives, but it is a responsibility if we want to live a better life to learn the tool of emotional regulation.

• 18:26Lewis Howes?

  And like you said, it's exposing ourself to these uncomfortable feelings in our nervous system where we feel hot or cold. Again, we may not like it, but we've got to learn to to navigate it. And learn to sit with it and and be firm in our boundaries. When we're experiencing it.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  And there is no way around it.

• 18:46Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  You cannot escape this if you want to have a meaningful intimate relationship. There is no way around this.

• 18:54Lewis Howes?

  Then what would you say then are the three signs that someone doesn't have good boundaries in a relationship?

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Well, first, let's define boundary, right? Because I think it's something we misunderstand. We often think that a boundary has to do with somebody else changing, making, doing something different. Like, I don't like the way you talk to me, so stop talking to me like that.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  That's my boundary.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  But a boundary isn't that. A boundary is a way to take care of yourself. And boundaries and threats can sort of get interchanged and they're not the same. But a threat is like, if you talk, you know, if you keep talking like that, I'm gonna leave right now. Like, that's like a threat. There's like a, but if you say, hey, listen. I can't actually hear you and show up if you keep talking to me like that.

• 19:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna leave and then let's come back in 20 minutes when we both calm down and I'm happy to continue the conversation. That's a boundary. A boundary is taking care of yourself. It's taking care of yourself.

• 19:54Lewis Howes?

  And it's not saying that in a negative way. Like you said, a very calm versus when you stop being like a little brat.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:00Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna come back.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  That's exactly.

• 20:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's not like, it's how you present it also, probably. I mean, it doesn't mean you can still be firm. You don't have to be like loving and kumbaya, but it's like, you don't want to degrade someone as well with your boundary.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  It's the difference between a kind of ultimatum.

• 20:15Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Like, an ultimatum is a threat, essentially. An ultimatum is something you're probably not gonna act on, but you're gonna say it like, you know, if you talk to me that again, if you talk to me like that again, I'm leaving. Like, like, this relationship is over. And yet, two days later, you're back and you have great makeup sex and you're fine. Quote unquote, fine. And you, like, that's a threat. That's an ultim- but, but actually speaking from a place of understanding what your needs are, which is also tricky, because most of us have not ever really had our needs met by a caregiver or parent, like, really deeply. Unless we were super fortunate, then a lot of us are working with, what do I need? I've never even really had that.

• 20:58Lewis Howes?

  I don't even know what I need.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 21:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  And so, so, starting to understand where your limit is, is gonna be a practice. That's a, it's a practice, right? So you said the top three things for.

• 21:12Lewis Howes?

  What are the three biggest signs that you are, you don't have good boundaries in a relationship?

• 21:18Speaker 01

  That you don't have good boundaries. Well, one is your, you, you need the other person to change. Like, you have that expectation that, that in order for me to feel better, you have to change. You have to do something different.

• 21:30Lewis Howes?

  Okay, that's number one.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  That's a, I mean, that's a, by the way, I just wanna keep saying this, easier said than done.

• 21:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Uh, so you expect somebody to change and, and in their changing, you feel better.

• 21:42Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the misrepresented form of boundaries.

• 21:46Lewis Howes?

  But I've done that. I've changed over and over again, and the other person still never feels better.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:50Lewis Howes?

  There's always more for them to change.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Oh, 100%.

• 21:52Lewis Howes?

  It's never enough.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  Never enough.

• 21:57Lewis Howes?

  Never, never. It's so funny, before you go to the second sign, that was when I got in a committed relationship with Martha. We were dating for months and all these things, but once we agreed to be like exclusively committed to each other. I said that I have only one rule, essentially. I was like, there's nothing you can do that will upset me, nothing. I'm sure maybe I would get frustrated, but there's really nothing that's going to make me be like, I can't believe you did this. Maybe there's things I didn't like or whatever, but nothing to really like upset me. Unless you do one thing and that's you don't accept me. If you try to change me for something that you don't like or whatever, and you need me to change to make you feel better.

• 22:40Lewis Howes?

  This relationship will not work. I said, there's only one thing. You have to accept me for who I am, where I'm at. And in that acceptance, you also have to know that I'm committed to my own personal healing journey for life. I'm committed to growth. I'm committed to feedback, receiving feedback. I'm committed to, you know, doing, investing in myself in the different parts of me to continue to grow as a human being. Spiritually, physically, mentally, psychologically. I don't know many men who are willing to do that for life or commit to it, who have been showing up consistently. And I'm also not going to be perfect. I'm also extremely flawed. I'm also make a lot of mistakes. I also, this, all these things that I, you know, know that I'm have to improve on, right?

• 23:23Lewis Howes?

  I'm not the perfect person. I'm flawed. You know, I have bad thoughts. I have bad moods, all these. So it's not, you're not going to get a perfect human being from this, but you can never try to change me. And the reason why is because I'm never going to try to change you. I'm always going to accept you based on, based on my experience of you. If this is who you say you are, and I continue to see your actions match your words throughout the next six months, year, and so on. You know, as long as you don't swindle me in the next few months. If this is essentially who you are, your main personality. I'm choosing to accept this personality. I know it's going to evolve. I know when you're pregnant, it'll be different. I know in this it'll be different. I know there's going to be differences.

• 24:07Lewis Howes?

  But as long as you accept me for where I'm at, I'm going to accept you. And.

• 24:12Lewis Howes?

  And the only time that we've really had disagreements is when I feel she hasn't accepted me. And I bring it back to her. She hasn't done it in probably a year and a half. But in the first couple of years, I'd be like, I told you, have I ever been upset for you or anything? She said, no. The only time I'm going to get frustrated is if you don't accept me for something. And that doesn't mean we can't talk about it. We can talk about anything consciously, talk about it, address it, go to therapy about it, do workshop. I don't care. We'll do all of it. But you can't try to change me. I'm going to evolve and grow on my own. And you either need to accept me as the man that you've chosen to be with, or don't be with me. Because I'm not trying to change you. And she stopped doing that after like, the first year and a half.

• 24:54Lewis Howes?

  Like she, it's not like she was doing it. But the only time that I would like react was when I was like, you're trying to change me. Like, that's the one the bear came out a little bit, not like I was screaming or anything, but it was more like defensive mode.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 25:05Lewis Howes?

  I was like, don't try to change me right now. You know, it's not, it doesn't feel good to me.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 25:09Lewis Howes?

  I don't care. She's done movies with like, sex scenes and kissing guys like, zero frustration, jealousy, upset, zero. I have zero jealousy. And she used to like, kiss guys in movies. She doesn't have to, but she has. And she's got guys all, you know, she's a movie star. Zero jealousy. I've not once tried to check her phone. I've not once been like, who's this guy? I've zero. And I said, you're getting a man who is committed to not giving you any stress and giving you as much as I can give. Don't try to change me. And you can ask her, you know, we're four and a half years in. Again, I'm not 20 years deep yet, but you can ask her, has Louis ever gotten upset at

• 25:51Lewis Howes?

  you for anything? Ever? Except for when you try to change him? She'll say no.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  This is so fascinating, because there's a frame here. I know we were talking about boundaries, and I also know we haven't finished this. So I'm like, okay, okay. So,

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Dr. Alexandra Solomon is fantastic. And she has this frame that she talks about around the change and accept partner.

• 26:14Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh. Give it to me.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  I think this is so good.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  Is this the 70% rule?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  No, that's the one that we talked about. That's the unreparable. That's the part that's.

• 26:20Lewis Howes?

  The change and acceptance. What is this?

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:22Lewis Howes?

  Set this up for me.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Okay, so.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Oftentimes, not every time in a relationship, but oftentimes in relationships, there is going to be, they're going to be, each of you is going to hold one side of the pole. One of you might hold, and I don't know that this is you two, so it's going to hold the pole of change. I want to be in therapy. I want to go to the workshops. Let's read the books. Let's, yeah, yeah, yeah, also me, also me.

• 26:47Lewis Howes?

  Also me.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  And the other partner is what she calls the acceptance partner. And this is the partner who's like, but can't we just relax?

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Can't we just like, isn't it all good the way we are now? Like, don't like, can't it just like, can't things be okay the way they are? They're, they're fighting for like presence and peace and just, well, one's fighting for growth, the other is fighting for like the calm peace. Let's just live.

• 27:12Lewis Howes?

  Just relax. Yeah, yeah, it's all good.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  Let's not face our traumas anymore. Like, come on, let's just chill.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Chill, let's just chill and have a good time. Yeah, totally. Now, those two things polarize one another, right? When one partner is like, let's go to therapy, and the other is like, we don't need therapy. Like, when those two poles stretch, that's going to be really tough, and it happens all the time. In fact, I think it was one of the most viral videos is this video, and the most scathing comments I have ever gotten are on this video, because people want to just rail the acceptance partner. Like, they're lazy, they never, you know, like, they just want to go after them. Like, it's, I'm the one who's doing all the work. I'm, if it wasn't for me, we wouldn't move an inch. Nothing would get done in our relationship. And there's part that's true about that.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  But what needs to happen is that it's sort of, it's actually similar to what we were talking about earlier around the co-regulation and auto-regulation. And if you're better at co-regulating, you need to, you need to get, you need to learn auto-regulating, is they both come towards the other. They both, the acceptance, if, if the acceptance partner starts to now engage the change partner in conversations that are growth oriented, asking like, what, what was challenging for you today? I'd love for you to talk about your innermost world, right? To a change partner that's like, swoon, like the best, right? And if the change partner says, let's get therapy this week. Why don't we just go do something fun? Let's hang out. Then the acceptance partner is like,

• 28:42Lewis Howes?

  I want to go to therapy. They want to do more of it.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, they can start to depolarize. Does depolarize a word? I don't know. Anyway, one another and,

• 28:52Lewis Howes?

  Just kind of relax one another, right?

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Exactly. But both sides need to, and it's not exactly what you're talking about, but it made me think of it because of the change, change, accept, accept.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  If both sides can actually come to one another and say this neither is right. And I will tell you right now, especially in the self-development space, the change partners think they're right. I am a change partner. I think I'm right. I have to tell you, I still think I'm right. But in my, I will say, there was one moment that I could process endlessly. This is my favorite game. Let's go to therapy process.

• 29:22Lewis Howes?

  Suppose you just move on.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my wife is very different. And so one day she comes up to me and she was like, I have to tell you, I have hit my limit. Like I have hit capacity.

• 29:33Lewis Howes?

  Can't process anymore.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  I can't process anymore. And for, she had said that before, and I heard it more from her wounding. For whatever reason, I heard this actually from the relationship's wisdom speaking. I like to think about the relationship having three poles. You, your partner, and the relationship entity itself. And that this is, comes from a friend and colleague, Annie Lala, who's fantastic. She's a love coach. But I love thinking about this relationship entity that has wisdom for you that's outside of either person and your individual personal preferences. So she says this, and in my head immediately, I'm like, I think this is the relationship talking. Like, I think she actually, she's on to something here. Maybe our relationship does need more play and fun and relax. And so in that moment, I don't know what happened to me, but like the higher version of myself just said,

• 30:19Speaker 01

  okay, let's cancel therapy for three months and see what happens.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  We had a fantastic three months. And you know what I started to learn was like how to let things roll off my back more easily where I where normally it might be hard. It was like I learned all these things about what it would mean if we actually didn't process. We weren't sweeping things under the rug. Like we would bring little things up, but the big things just didn't seem to like nothing seemed to matter as much.

• 30:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And the interesting thing is like, I think when you when things are good, like in the beginning of the relationship, I was, I said, I want to do therapy more out of a fear. Cause I was like, I don't want to go two years into this relationship, repeat for the sixth time now.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:06Lewis Howes?

  A relationship going two years deep. The first year is great. The second year starts to have this struggle. We're trying to get back to how it was in the beginning. I see, I was the only one that would suggest therapy. I don't know any woman that's met a man that said like, I want to go to therapy. So I was always the one in the women I was, whatever reason, the women I chose never wanted to go to therapy. And I was like, what is, what am I attracting? You know? And it's like, I want to tell them, every woman would beg for their guy to go to therapy. They're like, you don't want to.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  And um, side note, anyways, and so it was more out of a fear. I was like, I'm only getting this relationship if we start in therapy. And I always wanted to do it, but it was more like, I want to know quickly, like if we're going to work or not. Like, I want to know in the first six months, not I want to wait two years. And I was just kind of at that phase of my life. I was like, unless you're willing to do this, and even her just committing to it, I was like, I could have just let it go. Cause I'm like, oh, at least I know you're into growth. Right? We did it for about a year and a half anyways. And it really helped us get alignment and agreements and values in place. And that's where we were able to actually fast forward disagreements. We learned about each other in therapy and the wounds that each one had. And so when there were disagreements, we

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  were able to process them with a, with a middle person, right? With someone that could guide us in our own personal healing journeys and then together with agreements. So it created this sense of. Shared individual safety and then relationship safety that we were willing to invest in agreements early on. And when there were breakdowns, which there were, how do we process and navigate this conflict where we feel both safe and the relationship feels safe? So it took about a year and a half of like doing that consistently where I felt great. And then maybe we would go once every like, whatever, three or six months and it still felt great. And in the last year, it's funny you say this because she said something yesterday or two days ago to me. She was like, I feel like we should do a session together. And I actually said, no, I don't think we need a session.

• 33:04Lewis Howes?

  I was like, we haven't done a session together in like a year, probably, maybe a year and a half. And I was like, I don't think we need a session. I think we're exactly where we need to be. And I have processed so much on my own and I'm like, I am willing to sit with you at any moment and talk about anything. And we can go over anything and we can talk about it. We have the tools to do this as well. If we are in a breakdown together, then I think we should, but life's been amazing. We haven't had the greatest year. And I don't want you to fall back into fear of needing therapy to feel good. We can feel safe having whatever conversation we need. And so if you want to schedule time for us to talk and do something together, I'm here whenever you want.

• 33:48Lewis Howes?

  She was like, okay. And I go, and if you want to do something solo on your own with, great, go do it. But I'm like, I don't feel like I need more, you know, it's like, I need just more play.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, and so it's interesting that your wife said the same thing and it's like, but I was like, I'm here to talk at any moment about any fear concern you have because again, she's a few weeks away from having birth. And so I know there's a lot of emotions coming up and I'm like, I'm here any moment to talk. I'm here to create a safe space. I'm here to engage in any fear conversation you want to have. Cause I know you're going to have concerns about the future. I understand. I can't fully understand, but I can appreciate what you're experiencing and I'm here for you. And let's talk right now, later, tomorrow, I'm here. As much as you want, I'm here, but I don't want to go schedule and go somewhere to do that. Let's just do it.

• 34:39Lewis Howes?

  And I think it's, it's knowing how to create that space as well for me, which has been helpful because that's also creating a boundary for yourself of like, I'm doing an interview with you today. This is therapy. You know what I mean? It's like I'm doing four of these a week.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  In these conversations, it can be emotionally draining if you're processing constantly and imagining these things.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 34:59Lewis Howes?

  If you're doing it all the time.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. And it's as a change partner and as a change partner myself.

• 35:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  It's also a way to control your environment. This is the kind of shadow side. There's of course the benefit of being the change partner. But part of the shadow side of it is if I continue to need change in this relationship, what I'm not actually addressing is what might not be working.

• 35:25Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  If I don't control the situation. There's a phase in a relationship that I think is important to note that it's called disillusionment and every relationship will go through it.

• 35:36Lewis Howes?

  What is disillusionment in a relationship?

• 35:39Speaker 01

  It's this time and I think, and I say this now because oftentimes the change partner wants to keep changing, wants to keep changing because they don't actually, because accepting where they are is, it can actually be too painful. For some people, it's, it's, you realize like the relationship, like you're saying, it doesn't need as much work as you might think it does. For other people though, it's, it's actually sitting with, wait a second, this is not what I signed up for. And if I keep committing to change and the work, if I keep going into the work, I don't actually have to sit with, this isn't it. Or I don't have to sit with accepting exactly where we are.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Disillusionment is the process of moving from hope that things will be different to acceptance that things are the way they are.

• 36:29Lewis Howes?

  And it may not change.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 36:31Lewis Howes?

  And do I, do I want to be in this relationship? Is this the envisioned?

• 36:34Speaker 01

  As is.

• 36:35Lewis Howes?

  Do I want, is this the Disney fairyland romantic story that I envisioned living myself in?

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Well, let's hope that it's not because those don't exist.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Those, those don't exist. But if there is a way that you're holding on to hope that your partner is going to show up differently, do something differently and you've, you've done, you've asked the questions, you've gone to therapy and they're, they're not doing it.

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  And you have to accept.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  There is a first you grieve.

• 36:58Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  First you grieve. That this is, this is not where I thought we'd be. This is not the relationship I thought, oh, it is. It is so tough.

• 37:09Lewis Howes?

  And can I stay in this relationship now that I've invested years of my life? And if I get out of this, I want to redate someone and then what if that doesn't work out?

• 37:17Speaker 01

  The whole thing. The process of moving from hope to disillusionment, which is there is the like, I actually have to release hope in order, in order to see what's truly here. Grieve that and then understand if I am okay staying in this relationship as it is today, if nothing changed, or reckon with the fact that this isn't the thing that I signed up for and then do whatever work you need to do about that, which is often boundary setting and taking care of yourself. And if you can, if you take care of yourself over, you'll, you'll, it brings me back to something you were talking about where you were saying you did this three month period with this girlfriend, of just continuing to show up the way that was in your work.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  You're focused on your work over and over again. As long as that's what you're doing, as long as you're sort of minding your own business and your work and you're setting boundaries and you're doing it more lovingly and you're doing, you're being open and you're, you're bringing the things that are yours to bring to the table and you're using I language and you're taking responsibility and you're doing all, you're doing your part.

• 38:21Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  And nothing changes, then you're out of the power struggle because the power struggle is the thing that keeps you in the hope that something will, will be different.

• 38:32Lewis Howes?

  And then you have a choice to make.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  Do I accept this life or do I move on?

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 38:38Lewis Howes?

  Can I accept the relationship and the person I've chosen to be with if nothing's going to change? Maybe there's a little bit in the future, but I can't, I can only hope, but there's not a guarantee.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  But every relationship goes through disillusionment at one point or another. Maybe it happens year one, maybe it happens year 10, maybe it, but and it's confusing because it feels like the end. Because it is.

• 39:00Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  It is the end of a chapter. My supervisor Esther Perel talks about this, how she's been in multiple marriages, but all to the same person.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Well, yeah, yeah.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  I think that's a beautiful thought, and I have friends who that's the same for them as well. Like, they have been in relationship long enough that they have gone through multiple iterations of the relationship, but they have had to let the previous version of their relationship die.

• 39:22Lewis Howes?

  I would say I'm in that phase right now in terms of like, you know, before Martha, you know, before we were married, it was a version of a relationship. It was like, we're traveling everywhere and doing these things and this thing, you know. After married, she got pregnant very quickly. So we're still traveling and doing certain things, but it's preparing for a different future.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:41Lewis Howes?

  With children in mind. We have twins on the way. So it's preparing for, you know, a eight, well, really an eight month process of pregnancy, but then probably six to a year long process of a, not, you know, to a full recovery, I guess, of like body shifting and changing for two years essentially from, you know, growing human life to then recovering from that. And then your whole identity shifts from the moment you get pregnant to the moment you have kids that do different identity, to getting back into day to day life as a mom and as a parent, like in a relationship. Your identity is shifting constantly, right? And you have to grieve a past.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 40:21Lewis Howes?

  Even if you're okay with it not being there anymore and you're excited about the future, you still have to let go of it and grieve it and choose to accept what you have and be okay with it. Maybe you're not okay with it, but you have to choose if you want to make the most out of your life. Otherwise, you're gonna struggle.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And then you you stay in that for as long, for as long as you grip, you will stay in that contraction. And I mean, I just hear about this all the time with people. They won't change. What do I do? They don't, they keep doing this. What do I do? They, they, they, they, they. And that makes sense because they're on the other side of your pain. But as long as we're looking over there, and this is my work too. This is for so many of us, as long as we're, we're putting our hands in the honey pot over there. We're not actually able to see what's needed to be done over here in our, in our world. And this is the, as much as I hate to say it, it's the only thing we can control.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  We have no control over another human being and the more that we try to control somebody, we learn very quickly, nobody likes to be controlled.

• 41:29Lewis Howes?

  No, unless they're like a weak person that just says.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Or you're doing BDSM in the bedroom and that gets just agreed upon anyway.

• 41:35Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But no one likes to be forced to change from someone else, you know? And that's why I was like, the only time I'm gonna get angry, upset or frustrated is if you try to change me. You know, it's like, cause that was what most of my life was in relationships, not being accepted for who I was.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  And for the person who, and for the person who wants their partner to change, it's the part of them that so, I just learned this over and over again, the part of them that so desperately wants to be met and seen and understood that you changing could allow that feeling for them. That if you were just a little more, just like a dash more of this and a dash less of this.

• 42:16Lewis Howes?

  Then it'd be perfect. I'd feel good.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Then I would feel X.

• 42:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  I would feel happy, settled, safe, all of those things, but it's an illusion.

• 42:25Lewis Howes?

  It's an illusion.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  It's an illusion.

• 42:27Lewis Howes?

  You have to create peace and safety within you, no matter what someone else is doing outside of you. You have to.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Again, hard thing to do.

• 42:34Lewis Howes?

  Which is probably the hardest thing for me in my twenties and my early thirties and mid thirties, actually, until I really just like, I was like, I had to reflect on all my relationships. I was like, man, I keep attracting based on a psychological wound. It's not about any person I've been with. It's about me and my responsibility. And choosing and then lacking the courage to really speak, speak my boundaries and stick to boundaries. Or choosing the courage to say, gosh, you're a fascinating person. I want the best for you, but we can't be together and being okay with the reaction of that.

• 43:14Lewis Howes?

  Because I was never okay when someone was like, I can't believe you don't wanna be with me. Like, I couldn't deal. It was like, ah, I never wanted to upset anyone.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Or learn that you will survive even if you don't feel okay.

• 43:25Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  That there's going to be tension.

• 43:28Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  No matter, no matter what.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  I lacked that. I lacked that courage and the ability to emotionally regulate when someone was like freaking out.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  It's so hard to do when we haven't learned that that's the thing we need to practice.

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  It was everything.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  We, there, I'm just gonna say it again. There is no getting around it. It is, the practice is facing that tension.

• 43:49Lewis Howes?

  So I'm curious then, maybe this is too personal, but you, how many like long-term male relationships were you in?

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 43:59Lewis Howes?

  Like more than six, more than six months, what would you say?

• 44:04Lewis Howes?

  Like a handful, five, 10, five to seven?

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Five to seven.

• 44:07Lewis Howes?

  Okay, since you were like 18, not like 13 year old, like yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I had young love, but yeah, yeah, like five to seven, yeah.

• 44:13Lewis Howes?

  Where over six months, maybe a couple of years or something.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, something like that.

• 44:16Lewis Howes?

  You're engaged once.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 44:20Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you've healed from those relationships with men?

• 44:25Speaker 01

  I don't know. My last relationship, which wasn't the engagement, there was, I entered into that on really,

• 44:36Speaker 01

  probably the least confident I had ever been because I was just leaving. It was, you know, a year or so after the engagement.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  And you were, you were feeling weaker?

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Kind of wounded, weaker. I didn't, and I.

• 44:47Lewis Howes?

  Insecure a little bit or?

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I, I just had lost a lot of my confidence coming out of that.

• 44:52Lewis Howes?

  It's, yeah, it's normal. I mean, anyone would.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  It was like I had, I started to question my own reality and how I, you know, so anyhow I was, and I.

• 45:06Lewis Howes?

  And you got into another relationship?

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:08Lewis Howes?

  When you were at a lower point.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yes, and I chose someone who was very strong willed and I, I bent to them over and over and over again. And the truth that's not, like I'm not proud to admit this, my wife has been the first person, and it might be because she's a woman, that I've been able to stand up in a way that I had never been able to. I mean, I was a pleaser through and through. I appeased. I was so scared of causing tension and conflict. I was very terrified of someone getting mad at me.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Uh, and, and my wife is the first person who I've really been able to, I mean, we've done the deepest work I've ever done relationally in this relationship and part, I, I have to wonder if part of that is because she's a woman and so I feel less threat.

• 45:57Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  And I don't, I don't know the answer to that. I don't actually know the answer to that. Um. And I don't know if I'll, hopefully I'll not find out because I'm this, she's my, you know, I hope we're together forever. But I, I don't feel anger towards men. Like I don't, I, I, and some of my male patients are my favorite patients. So it's not like I have a, I just,

• 46:22Lewis Howes?

  But you're also not an intimate relationship with them where that wound or that trigger is coming out.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  100%. You're totally right. You're totally right.

• 46:29Lewis Howes?

  You're distanced and you're able to give advice. It's a safe environment.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  But I don't know that I would be able to work, or maybe because I'm in this relationship, that I will have had enough practice that if I ever needed, I could really face the, you know, whatever tension I might need to with a male, but I don't have that practice right now because I'm practicing with a woman.

• 46:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I haven't, I haven't thought actually a lot about that. So I don't have a great answer.

• 46:55Lewis Howes?

  Where do you think your life would be in the future? If you allowed yourself to reflect and see if you still needed healing and allowed yourself to heal from all the, the male relationship energy that you've experienced or the, you know, the lack of healthy relationship with men that you've experienced? Where do you think your relationship with yourself would be in the future? If you're able to do that, your relationship with your wife would be? And your relationship with the world would be?

• 47:24Speaker 01

  It's hard for me to know how much of my relationship dynamic with Emmy is because she's a woman and

• 47:34Speaker 01

  because she sort of represents both to me. Like she has a lot of masculinity in her and so I can project maleness onto her.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  But I guess irrelevant of her, if you were able to, you know, maybe, maybe you don't need healing from it, but if you, if it comes to you in the future that you do, and you're able to dive in deeper and integrate the healing with the past relationships, maybe you'll never be able to fully do that because you're, you're not going to get in a relationship with a man again. But if you're able to do it in a way that allowed you to fully heal from those previous relationships, where do you think you would be personally for the future?

• 48:10Lewis Howes?

  The relevant of your, you know, partner?

• 48:14Speaker 01

  I mean, it's tricky to say irrelevant for my partner because I think the truth is I am healing those parts.

• 48:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Like, I think that's the, I think that's kind of what we were talking about before, which is the parts of me that I brought that have been unhealed, irrespective of gender, are showing up here, right? My trust, perfect examples. I did not have the same trust issues before my fiance, before my ex fiance. I was a pretty, maybe even naively trusting person before that.

• 48:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you trusted people.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  I, I, that was my blanket.

• 48:54Lewis Howes?

  You say it, I believe it.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  That was sort of blanket. And I think I grew out of being naive into more discernment from that. So that's one benefit that came out of it. But I have, I have watched my nervous system react to things with Emmy that they would have never reacted to.

• 49:13Lewis Howes?

  Like what?

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Like, one that has honestly really surprised me at the beginning of our relationship was she's way more extroverted. I can play an extrovert on TV, but I'm, I'm, I, I do well.

• 49:27Lewis Howes?

  Like your space.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she wants to stay at the party until the very end. I'm like, 10 o'clock, feels good, after Saturday night, let's go, you know? And, and, and at the beginning, it was really, really hard for me when she would stay at a party later and I would go home. I would ruminate, I would be like, is she, is something gonna happen? And it wasn't, it was, it was the fear that she was going to come home and tell me something that was gonna knock me, because that's what happened.

• 49:56Lewis Howes?

  Like what? Like someone hit on me or someone did this?

• 49:58Speaker 01

  No, like she, like, she made out with somebody and was so sorry about it and she would never do it again, but she just did. And like something like that, that I think because my ex fiance, like that, that knocked me, I mean, I was, I couldn't work after, like it really rocked me in a way that nothing had rocked me before that relationally. And I, I think I was so scared of being rocked like that again, like that something could just so quickly like that come out of the blue and hit me and take me down. That it was like my fear of

• 50:33Lewis Howes?

  You were afraid of that, yeah.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  And, and it took me, it took me, honestly, it took over and over again, her coming home later and me and her not, not saying anything about doing any, breaking a boundary or breaking an agreement.

• 50:45Lewis Howes?

  Do you guys have an open relationship?

• 50:46Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 50:47Lewis Howes?

  But you're just like, if she cheated on me, it would break my life.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  It would, yeah, like something, if she broke a boundary or, or really what it was is if she, the, the question that I have had since that relationship is when I get triggered, I say, I, I ask myself, what am I missing? So I get vigilant. I get sort of like

• 51:06Lewis Howes?

  Hypervigilant.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Yes, super, so I'm, I'm sort of like scanning my environment for what am I missing? So if I feel off about something, then I, I start to be like, okay, what am I missing? Now, what I have learned that is, and I learned this again from a friend of mine, Annie Lala, who I mentioned earlier.

• 51:23Lewis Howes?

  I know Annie, yeah, yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  She's fantastic and she talks about this and I think it's really important, which is the difference between signal and story. And the signal is whatever feels off in my nervous system. And I'm like, mm, something's not quite right. This doesn't feel congruent. Something's not quite right here. Where I get myself into trouble, where we all get ourselves into trouble, if, if you're anything like me, is when you believe the story about what that signal is telling you.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  You know, you're making it up. This happened, this is happening.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Totally. So, so if I make up a story that the reason I'm getting this signal is because Emmy's out there making out with someone, right? Like that.

• 51:57Lewis Howes?

  You're making up a story.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Then I'm making up a story and, and then I get myself all in a tizzy and, but, but here's what might be happening. She might be having fun with someone and maybe she, she's like, has energy with somebody. And I can feel that, like maybe that's something, or maybe it's just that she's out late and she's having fun and I feel FOMO.

• 52:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  It doesn't actually matter what it is. So I say now, trust the signal, not the story. And when you bring the signal to your partner, hey, I feel crazy even saying this and I feel kind of embarrassed, like this is how I would bring, I, I feel embarrassed saying this. By the way, this is not how I brought things to her at the beginning.

• 52:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got, you grabbed her like, were you out having fun? Yeah, yeah.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I would be like, uh, I'm embarrassed to say this, but can you just tell me if there was anything up with you and this person? I feel like kind of weird about it. And she would be like,

• 52:46Speaker 01

  No, but I can see what you mean. Like, we have, you know, we're really friendly with each other.

• 52:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we have fun.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  We have fun.

• 52:51Lewis Howes?

  We hug each other.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I can be like, okay, I knew I was feeling something. And because she's not telling, she's not telling me I'm completely wrong, I can, that part of me actually softens. And I can find the truth in where my signal was, but that the story was total BS.

• 53:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  And that's been really important. So I don't have a great answer for where would I be? I think the truth is, I am, I have, I've been, I put myself in therapy when I was in junior high. Like, I have been on the healing path my whole life, and I imagine will be.

• 53:23Lewis Howes?

  It's a journey forever.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  It's a journey forever.

• 53:25Lewis Howes?

  Even if I, you know, even if I feel more peaceful and more whole, I'm gonna continue to have to heal for the rest of my life.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:32Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't mean like, I've got it all figured out.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:35Lewis Howes?

  I just feel safe within myself at this season of life, and I want to continue that healing journey. And I think that's an important part for us. Again, we go back to the emotional regulation training. It is a constant training, and I'm certain that when my two daughters come out, there's gonna have to be a whole new things that come out of me that I'm like, I need to learn how to regulate in a different way.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:59Lewis Howes?

  I might think I have like something figured out in the last couple of years where I feel good right now, but.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Try to be exhausted. They're both crying at the same time. You just got home from a long day of work.

• 54:08Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent. And I know that I lack patience when I don't sleep. I just lack patience. I'm an entrepreneur. You know, it's like, I want it now. Let's go. So I know like my, my weaknesses, and I know there's probably other weaknesses I don't know that'll come out. And it's gonna be a constant journey of healing and learning tools and learning how to use those tools to regulate my nervous system in a new season of life with a new structure. And I'm, I'm grateful, for me personally, I'm grateful that.

• 54:38Lewis Howes?

  I went on this journey, I guess 12 years ago to be able to have some baseline now before having kids. Cause if I would have had kids 20 years ago, I would have been a mess. There's just, I don't, I didn't have the tools. I'd have been a mess.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:52Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean? And so it's, it's a journey.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Well, this is part of, you know, part of the work that I do is MDMA assisted couples therapy research. And I do it with Columbia University, Columbia University and MAPS and Rick Doblin and, and a few other people in clinics. And part of what we're doing and what MDMA does and why I think it's such an interesting compound to research is because it helps you regulate. And so for people who really struggle regulating, who have had trauma, and so their nervous system is consistently in fight, flight, freeze, fawn, right? MDMA can give you an imprint of what it's like to actually feel regulated with a partner. I, I think this is what, to me MDMA is sort of like the cutting edge way the couples,

• 55:40Speaker 01

  their couples, therapy field is going. It's why I'm so involved in the research is because what it's, when our amygdala is so fired up and for many of us who have, who come from trauma, this is our base state is just triggered and dysregulated. Like that's a lot of people walking around and something very, very little will set them off.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  MDMA gives this imprint because it's kind of dumping, you know, on a very basic level serotonin and oxytocin and dopamine. And it's, it's dumping these chemicals that allow you to feel good and calm. So you can be in a tense conversation with a partner and not feel that same tension that you feel, that same dysregulation you feel all the time. So it gives you an imprint of what it's actually like to be regulated in a difficult conversation. Now, you can't be on MDMA forever. So you're going to have to learn the tools. But for some of us, we've never even had the chance to understand what it's like. And so anyhow, I wanted to mention that because I think it's a

• 56:42Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  So kind of the wave of the future in couples work.

• 56:47Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious, you triggered something in me that I remember from my past where I used to, I don't know if I was extremely jealous or just like average male jealousy when I was in previous like, you know, teenager twenties in relationships where I'd feel like, oh, my girlfriend's going out and like, she's at a club or she's like, With some older guys at some like meetup or whatever it might be. And having that jealousy or insecurity or lack of like, oh, if she's not telling me something. That's something that I had for a long time. And I don't know if I had it more or less than other guys, but just I would say normal jealousy, right? It's like normal jealousy of of an immature, weak person, I guess, that doesn't have.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Which, by the way, a lot of people won't say they're jealous. They just think they're angry. Continue.

• 57:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, I mean, I I didn't, I didn't, I think back then I wouldn't say I was jealous, but I was just like.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Angry or annoyed or frustrated or defensive.

• 57:40Lewis Howes?

  Whatever it was, but I can I can admit my weakness of being jealous for most of my life. And then something triggered in me. When I was in my, how old was I? Probably thirty four maybe was. Maybe I was thirty five. I must've been thirty three, thirty four. It's almost like one day it just switched off in me. I I don't know how to explain it, where I was jealous and then I wasn't. And I was in a relationship. And part of me, I think part of me. Knew the relationship I was in wasn't gonna work. And I'd been trying for a couple of years. We were trying to make it work and going back and forth and on and off and this whole thing.

• 58:21Lewis Howes?

  And it was almost like I knew I wasn't jealous anymore in this relationship. I didn't have jealousy. And for whatever reason, like, maybe it's because I knew the relationship was gonna work out, but I was trying and I was trying to make it work, but I didn't want to fail, but I also knew in my mind it wasn't gonna work. So I stopped like caring about if there was a guy hanging out or or something flirting with her. I was just like, hmm, I don't care. I'm not jealous anymore. Then. The next relationship I was in, I was with someone who had a lot of attention from men. Let's just say that. Around the world, lots. Celebrities, you know, billionaire, like lots of men, just like this person. And I still had zero jealousy and she didn't like it. She didn't like that I never was jealous.

• 59:07Lewis Howes?

  And I haven't had jealousy since then, right? It's probably been, I don't know, eight years or something. And again, I'm with an amazing woman who's like admired by lots of men now and who's done like, you know, kissing scenes or whatever, and I don't get jealous. Is there something wrong with me by not having jealousy anymore? And what's your thoughts on it when people have jealousy in a relationship? What is that signaling to the other person when they are jealous of who they are or what they're doing?

• 59:40Speaker 01

  So I think this can be addressed twofold. It can be addressed on the personal level, whatever self-love, self-worth, you know, that's kind of how we think about jealousy. It's a wound in me that makes me react towards you.

• 59:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  But I don't think that's the full story.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  What I often actually, the more that I see this, the more that I'm tracking this and working with couples, and the more that I understand jealousy or the lack of jealousy as part your work, but part your partner's energy.

• 1:00:13Lewis Howes?

  I believe that too.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  And if your partner actually has clean, clean energetic boundaries, is how I might say it, then there's nothing in you that's pointing to anything leaky. Like you're not, you're not getting hooked by a leak.

• 1:00:28Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  And so I think we give a lot of credit to people who aren't jealous as they're so confident. I think we give less credit to the partner of the person who's not jealous, that they're actually doing a good job.

• 1:00:43Lewis Howes?

  The other partner I had did not do a good job with that.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:00:46Lewis Howes?

  Oh, they were like.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  But you said you didn't really wanted to, you didn't.

• 1:00:49Lewis Howes?

  No, no, no, after that one, after one, the previous one before my marriage. So two relationships ago.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  That you did want to be in a relationship with her.

• 1:00:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes. I mean, I was in a relationship with her. I wasn't trying.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  And she didn't do a good job of holding her boundaries.

• 1:01:01Lewis Howes?

  It was like the worst job of like energetic boundaries with men.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  And you weren't, and you weren't.

• 1:01:06Lewis Howes?

  And I still wasn't jealous.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:07Lewis Howes?

  She was also on OnlyFans.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  And you, and you.

• 1:01:09Lewis Howes?

  And I didn't have any jealousy.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  And you knew you wanted to be with her or are you?

• 1:01:13Lewis Howes?

  I wanted to be with her. I was trying to make it work because in the first year it felt really good. The second year, it switched into power struggle, right?

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  And which was the year where you were like, I'm not jealous? Both years?

• 1:01:25Lewis Howes?

  The whole time.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  The whole time?

• 1:01:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because then she started playing, she started playing, she started kind of playing games of like, oh, this guy reached out to me and I gave him my number, go, that's weird. Why would you, why not just say no? She's like, oh, I was just trying to be nice or this and that. And I'd be like. Okay, alright, whatever. Like it for whatever reason.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  You saw.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  I I think it was more like if this doesn't work out, I know I'm gonna be okay. If you're trying to, if you want to be with someone else, go be with someone else. Just do it. Like, we don't have to be together. So it was more of like.

• 1:01:54Lewis Howes?

  I don't like, I'm gonna know either way. Like, if you're gonna be with someone, I'm gonna find out. If you're gonna cheat on me, I'm gonna find out. If you're texting someone, I'm gonna eventually find out. So I'm not worried. I'm not putting my energy on worrying if this is happening. It's gonna come out eventually. And it just didn't. It's not that it didn't bother me, but I wasn't being jealous.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  What was the bothering then?

• 1:02:17Lewis Howes?

  I wasn't, I mean, we weren't in alignment on our relationship. We were in conflict a lot. We were in conflict. We weren't aligned. We didn't have values or vision aligned.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  So you had a reaction to it. It just wasn't jealousy?

• 1:02:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I wasn't jealous. I was like frustrated, like we were in conflict, but I wasn't jealousy. No.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I.

• 1:02:33Lewis Howes?

  And with Martha as well, again, she's like a big movie star, famous, and. I just never have any jealousy.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  How are her energetic?

• 1:02:39Lewis Howes?

  She's really great. She doesn't allow men into her life. She doesn't. Nothing will creep in.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Lewis Howes?

  She is an energetic force field.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So she's doing part of the work.

• 1:02:49Lewis Howes?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Lewis Howes?

  But I still don't have, you know, I was in work when she was like, when we were first dating and she was like, whatever. I went on a date with another guy because we weren't like exclusive or whatever. She was like, oh, I saw a guy last night or this. I still didn't have jealousy.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, listen, I think.

• 1:03:03Lewis Howes?

  Like, okay, like, if this does, if that's what you want, then cool.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  And if that really is your stance.

• 1:03:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  That I'm gonna find out eventually. If I if I find, if I find out, I find out, I'm gonna be okay on my own. It doesn't, it's, it's okay.

• 1:03:14Lewis Howes?

  Doesn't mean I'm not gonna like it. I may not like it. You know, it's like, it may be sad if we didn't work out, but.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  I may have a reaction to it.

• 1:03:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course, but I was just, I just haven't had it for a long time.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, listen, I I.

• 1:03:25Lewis Howes?

  It feels amazing.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's.

• 1:03:28Lewis Howes?

  I don't feel, I don't feel.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:03:31Lewis Howes?

  I don't feel like it's draining my soul anymore.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  It was a very hard one for me and it's not hard anymore in this. Yeah, I mean, I can, I, it shows up sometimes, but not nearly like it used to. And you're right, like, it's a very draining.

• 1:03:46Lewis Howes?

  Time consuming.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:48Lewis Howes?

  And your nervous system is on a high alert all the time.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it is, it's a hypervigilance. It's like, yeah. Yeah. And that may, listen, I don't think this is a one size fits all answer either. I think like, part of it could have been that you had, you started to develop more confidence and you, part of it is, I truly believe, and this is the part I just feel like we talk less about, is the other person and what they're doing.

• 1:04:09Lewis Howes?

  She was right.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  But in a, but in a relation, and part of it, like, there's a part of me that is hearing, I don't know if this is true. So I can, I'll just check this with you, but it feels like a little bit, like, maybe a part of you in that other relationship was like a little bit apathetic to like, you're either gonna love me for who I am or not. And like, if you don't, it's, it's like, there's like a,

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  I was also in a,

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  flavor of.

• 1:04:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I was also trying to like, just accept like, okay, like, you can do what you want. It's not gonna bother me. As long as you're not cheating on me, like, if guys are hitting on you, then this is where it is, you know, guys were hitting on you before. As long as you're not entertaining it, then I don't have an issue, because I can't control if some guy hits on you.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:47Lewis Howes?

  Now, you have to create the block.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  But you said that she wasn't great at creating the blocks. That's, I think, the thing.

• 1:04:51Lewis Howes?

  She wasn't, or more, she was more like sick, you know? I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, it still didn't bother me for some reason, because I think I was just like, if this doesn't work out, I know I'm safe with me.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:01Lewis Howes?

  I know I'll be okay. I know I'll be in a good relationship in the future. I know, like, I have options. I'm not gonna be alone forever. Like, which is probably what I used to feel like, like, I'm gonna be alone. So I need to make sure this works.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  And I can't be alone.

• 1:05:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I think that was probably more my fear. And I think as I got into like my early thirties and started the healing journey, it was also after the healing journey began. I was like, I'm gonna be okay. If this doesn't work out.

• 1:05:26Lewis Howes?

  I will, maybe it's, I'm not gonna enjoy it.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:29Lewis Howes?

  But I will be okay in the future.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  That I think is a, it's a huge piece.

• 1:05:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  That if you know in your heart of hearts, that no matter what happens, you're gonna be okay. It will, you'll be better able to set boundaries.

• 1:05:44Lewis Howes?

  That's what I've been able to do.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:05:46Lewis Howes?

  That's what I'm gonna do. I'm just like, no, this is my boundary. And if that doesn't work, then we don't need to be together. Like, if we're not, it's not like I'm saying that nonstop, but it's like, we need to create agreements on alignment. And if there's something that's really crossing a boundary, I'm gonna tell you, now that's a deal breaker for you, then maybe we can come to an agreement somehow, but it's like, I don't know. We just can't do this anymore.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  But for somebody who doesn't actually believe that they're gonna be okay on their own, that their world literally will end. Or truly, some people have gotten in, into, gotten themselves into situations where they are, they are literally in danger if they leave.

• 1:06:23Lewis Howes?

  Of course. Or they're on reliance, or they're, they're children with this person, or they're financially responsible.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  So many reasons.

• 1:06:29Lewis Howes?

  All these things, yeah.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Why people stay when they know they should leave.

• 1:06:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  And, and the, when you're, when you have a hook, like any of those.

• 1:06:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh yeah, it's tough.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  It's really hard to set boundaries and to, and to, to, to speak the things that need to be spoken, even kindly, because.

• 1:06:49Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're gonna feel like.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Your safety is literally on the line.

• 1:06:52Lewis Howes?

  That's true. That's a whole nother, that's a whole nother episode.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:55Lewis Howes?

  It's like navigating that. It's like.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:06:58Lewis Howes?

  Uh, where's the best place for us to support you, follow you, connect with you all alone?

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  You can go to my website, bayavocce.com, B A Y A V O C E. And I'm at bayavocce on Instagram is mostly where I hang out. But on my website, I have a couple of resources. I have a free repair PDF that you can get, which has a ton of scripts for all sorts of. Conflicts, so that's a good one. And I also have another worksheet on the change and effort mismatch. So for people who are in that kind of change and accept dance, if they want some support there, that's also free. And then I'll be launching a group for repair, so.

• 1:07:36Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. Yeah, Caroline on my team, she downloaded the scripts and she goes, these are amazing. So make sure you guys download the scripts on the website for sure. And your content is great online. So make sure people follow you on Instagram and everywhere else. So. Bay, I want to ask you two final questions. Before I ask you, I want to acknowledge you for a moment for the journey you've been on. It sounds like you've been on a heck of a journey of relationships and we're still, all of us are on the journey. It's not like you've arrived or I've arrived or something. We're both on the journey. But I want to acknowledge you for putting your wisdom out there because you have gone through a lot of challenges in conflict resolution and intimacy and relationships. And I acknowledge you for diving deeper in researching it for your own personal healing journey, but then

• 1:08:21Lewis Howes?

  also sharing that wisdom with the world. And I think it's allowing a lot of people to find more peace, more tools, more resources and support. So they don't think they're crazy or they don't think it's all the, you know, they're the only ones dealing with this. But there are a lot of people struggling in relationships. And you're providing these tools to simplify. And I'm assuming these are tools you wish you had 20 years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago. And so I acknowledge you for using your pain for part of your purpose now to serve the younger version of yourself that needed this. And hopefully healing that version of you and helping other people heal as well. It's been really cool to watch your stuff and and getting to know you now for the second time. We just met recently, but.

• 1:09:04Lewis Howes?

  This was a question I ask everyone. It's called the three truths. So imagine hypothetically, you live, you get to live for the rest of your life as long as you want, but it's the last day on earth for you. It's many years away as you want it to be. And you get to live the exact life you want, all the blessings and beautiful journey and creations you get to make and relationships you have. But at the end of the last day, you have, you can only leave behind three truths. And everything that you've ever created has to go with you to the next place. Or we don't have access to your content or your videos or books or anything you ever create is gone. What would those three truths, three lessons that you've learned in life that you would leave behind?

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Bending over backwards in relationship is not love.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Contorting and pretzeling is not the thing that will get you what you hope, the love that you hope.

• 1:09:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  That's one.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  Another is

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  friendship is one of the most important investments you'll ever make. There's one of my favorite quotes, and I don't know who to attribute it to. I forgot, but it's something along the lines of the tragedy of getting older is there's less time to make old friends.

• 1:10:23Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  And I have friends from when I was one. I have friends from when I was five. I have a group of friends from elementary and junior high and high school, and we still are deeply connected.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  It's, uh, they bring me back to myself in a way that is,

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  it's so powerful. So those, you know,

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  friendships are, and, and just to say as a caveat,

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  I think we're going to start hearing a lot more about friendship breakups and about how to navigate conflict in friendships. I think it's starting to become.

• 1:11:02Lewis Howes?

  Boundaries in friendships, yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's, and it's really just the same thing, but, but I don't think we, we, I don't think we are prepared for friendship breakups in the way that we're, you know, we.

• 1:11:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man. This is a whole nother episode. I started doing this the last two years and went on, um,

• 1:11:19Lewis Howes?

  as many people as I could, where I was like, I need to create boundaries.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:11:24Lewis Howes?

  In a conscious way. And I realized, okay, this, some people are stronger together. Some people is like, oh, we're just not meant for each other in this season of life. And that's okay. You know, it's like, we can move on. We don't have to try to hold on to something.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Lewis Howes?

  That once was where we're at right now. But this is a whole nother episode.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I know. And I'm, and I'm with you. I've, I've done this. I've had a similar process and it's been.

• 1:11:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's intense.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Intense and tough, yes.

• 1:11:47Lewis Howes?

  That's number two.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  And then that's number two. Okay. And number three is don't let anybody tell you not to go to sleep. Sleep a lot. Sleep a lot. Get your rest because you need it and you're a way better version of yourself when you do.

• 1:12:05Lewis Howes?

  That's a good advice.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  What's the, what's the, what's that line that everyone says you can sleep when you die? Like, I think that is

• 1:12:10Lewis Howes?

  You need to sleep.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  Total BS.

• 1:12:12Lewis Howes?

  You need to sleep.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  I do everything better when I have slept and it's the way that I have access to my creativity and love and warmth and it's, it's the way that I access my essence. And I don't have full access to my essence when I am not rested.

• 1:12:26Lewis Howes?

  That's good, good wisdom. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Being willing

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  to look in the mirror at what yours, what is yours to own?

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  And that in, and then admitting that

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  to the people around you who've been hurt.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  By the way, you may have shown up even if it was unintentional because it probably was. And then being kind and gentle with yourself in that process.

• 1:13:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that is beautiful.

• 1:13:10Lewis Howes?

  But yeah, thank you for being here.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:13:12Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate you. Wow, that's a good one. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneeeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

• 1:13:57Lewis Howes?

  And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our great Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.