Harvard Scientist REVEALS The Surprising Secrets To Age In Reverse! w/Dr. David Sinclair EP 1232

Today’s guest is Dr. David Sinclair, who is a Professor in the Department of Genetics and co-Director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for Biology of Aging Research at Harvard Medical School. He is best known for his work on understanding why we age and how to slow its effects. After obtaining his PHD and working as a postdoctoral researcher at M-I-T, he was recruited to Harvard Medical School where he has been teaching aging-biology and translational medicine for aging for the past 16 years. He’s launched his own podcast, Lifespan, which I’m so proud of him for. Make sure to check that out after the interview. In this episode we discuss:The science behind reversing your age. The daily habits David recommends to easily improve your lifespan. The biggest things that are shortening your lifespan. Why you should trick your body into thinking it’s dying. How future technology and the metaverse will affect aging. And so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1232Check out Dr. David Sinclair's new podcast: LifespanDr. David Sinclair's previous episodes:www.lewishowes.com/904www.lewishowes.com/1004 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  So that is aging right there. It's this what we call DNA methylation pattern that changes over time. And I can read that and tell you how old you are exactly within about 5% error and predict when you're going to die unless you change your life.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Welcome to this special episode and thank you so much for being here today. And if this is your first time listening, I hope today's episode inspires you and helps you on your path to greatness. And I'd love to hear from you and know what your key takeaways are over on social media. Just message me at Lewis Howes over there. And if you're a regular listener of the show, then welcome back. I'm so grateful and inspired by your commitment to live greater, love deeper, and leave a legacy. Make sure to reference our show notes in the description for today's guest information and any mentioned links. And if you enjoy the show, make sure to tell a friend and leave a review over on Apple Podcast. This really helps the show reach more people and impact more lives as a result together. Okay, now it's time to dive into today's episode.

• 1:25Speaker 01

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• 2:46Lewis Howes?

  People age at different speeds, and the date on your license may not represent your inner biological age at all. And if you're looking for ways to extend your health span and slow down the aging process, the keys to your health and longevity run in your blood. That's why InsideTracker provides you with a personalized plan to boost your metabolism, reduce stress, improve sleep, and optimize your health for the long haul. It's created by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics. InsideTracker analyzes your blood, your DNA, and fitness tracking data to identify where you're optimized and where you're not. You'll get a daily action plan with personalized guidance on the right exercise, nutrition,

• 3:31Lewis Howes?

  and supplementation for your body. Add InnerAge 2.0 to any plan for a definitive calculation of your true biological age to see how you're aging from the inside out. And when I got my results back from InsideTracker, they told me, and I quote, "Louis, you're beating the clock." And that feels good. But if you know how competitive I am, you know I'm still going to keep working towards a lower and lower inner age. And now that InsideTracker has shown me my biological age, they are now providing an action plan of science-backed recommendations with the goal of improving the quality and quantity of the years ahead. And one of the things recommended for me was intermittent fasting seven days a week. This is something that I've tried out before, and I've loved it.

• 4:16Lewis Howes?

  So it's refreshing to know that it's in fact the right choice for my body. For a limited time, get 20% off the entire InsideTracker store. Just go to insidetracker.com/schoolofgreatness for more.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  You are teaching people how to understand reverse aging, really, and how to live longer, how to live younger, and how to reverse aging. It's kind of one of the main things you're known for, correct?

• 4:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  That is correct, yes.

• 4:47Lewis Howes?

  We were talking beforehand, that is a massive fear. Death is a big fear for a lot of people. Some people you meet who are spiritually enlightened, and they're just like, I know this is a part of life, and it's okay, and it's gonna be fine. But you have experienced things on the other side where it hasn't always been as pretty to witness death. And I'm curious, I wanna, I wanna talk about why you got into this field in a second, but I wanna give people a few hacks that you've learned recently to help people with the reversing aging process. What would you say are a couple of daily things we can think about or do to start reversing that aging process?

• 5:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well, we now know enough that you can definitely slow it down. And we've, yeah, we've had some breakthroughs that, that seem to reverse it as well. Though they're still experimental. But we're talking about one day being able to reverse the age of the body by 50, 75%. We do that in mice now. We can cure old age, blindness, and this kind of stuff. But importantly, what can we do now to stay alive till those technologies come online five, 10 years from now? So if there's one thing that I could say to everybody, if there was only one thing, it would be to eat less often, okay? I used to say, eat this or that. But actually, I believe that when you eat is just as important as what you eat, perhaps even more so.

• 6:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so I've changed my life accordingly. So there's that. You know, there's often, there's the exercise thing, but that's really true. And I'll tell you why it works, actually. That's important to know. And, you know, you're a fit guy, so you're doing all those things. By the way, you look really young.

• 6:24Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 6:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right? I would have thought maybe in your twenties, but you're actually in...

• 6:29Lewis Howes?

  Late thirties? Yeah, I'll be 39 in two months.

• 6:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's impressive, yeah.

• 6:34Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 6:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  You can't even see the stitches.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 6:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, it's really good. You haven't aged since I first met you and that's been a while.

• 6:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then the the third thing would be to to eat plants, more plants, but plants in particular that have been stressed out. So you can stress plants before you pick them. There's organic, of course, but you can pick the fruits and vegetables after they faced adversity. A lot of light, not enough water, not enough nutrients. And there's a whole theory that we have behind that. But in general, how do you know a plant has these molecules that I'm talking about?

• 7:11Lewis Howes?

  The stressed out molecules.

• 7:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. So plants need to survive, just like we do. And those molecules, they protect the animal and and the plant. And when the plants get perceived adversity, let's take a grape vine, okay, that, you know, make red wine out of. And I, you know, I'm the guy that said red wine is good for you and resveratrol, and that blew up thirty percent sales in red wine, two thousand and six. But so let's take red wine. So that before you pick the grape, you typically you dry out the vines, or you hope that there's not enough rain. And then the plant's grapevine gets stressed out, not mentally stressed, but, you know, fearful that it could die. So it starts making these what are called polyphenols. And a phenol is just a ring of carbon with some hydrogens on it. And poly,

• 7:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  obviously, more. So this resveratrol is two carbon rings with some little eight O Hs, oxygen, hydrogen. They make a ton of it. And it's bottled in red wine. And that's why, one of the reasons why you probably have some health benefits when you drink red wine in moderation.

• 8:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  And when you take resveratrol as a supplement, it also has similar benefits. It's found in clinical trials.

• 8:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow. In the supplemental form?

• 8:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, yeah. So I take, I've been taking resveratrol myself for over a decade now, probably fourteen years.

• 8:30Lewis Howes?

  Is that what covers up the stitches?

• 8:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 8:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  Actually, people on the internet make fun of me. They say, you know, you've had work done.

• 8:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I'm now fifty two, so it's getting up there.

• 8:40Lewis Howes?

  Fifty two?

• 8:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, time's a time to stop that one.

• 8:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, but anyway, these molecules, you you know, a plant has them when the the plant is full of color. So try to have a variety of colors. Don't get the the the white insipid lettuce. Get the get the bright orange, whatever, organic. Uh, if they've been kept in a greenhouse at perfect temperatures, that's probably not the best kind of food to eat.

• 9:06Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And I've gone more plant based. I know there's a lot of people that love meat. I love meat. I wish meat was super healthy. I'd eat it all day.

• 9:13Lewis Howes?

  But based on the scientific trials and studies.

• 9:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and and, you know, on on social media, there's a lot of debate. So I I don't mind going up.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  There's so many, but there's so many people that talk about meat who swear by it, and a lot of them look young, you know, a lot of them look really lean and shredded.

• 9:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, they will.

• 9:30Lewis Howes?

  You know, I've lost all this body fat from eating meat and the meat only diets and all these things. I've gotten rid of the eczema, I've gotten rid of the other, you know, allergies or whatever might be, you know, challenging them in those times. So you hear certain studies of this from people. But I guess having that diet for forty, fifty years, we haven't really seen that, right? It's like, okay, maybe it works for five years or three years, but how does that affect you with aging long term, right?

• 9:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's right. So I've had debates with Joe Rogan, ad nauseam about this. So what what? The the way to think of it is that you can mimic adversity or abundance. And the abundance is the steak. And what I do is the adversity, which is not as much protein.

• 10:13Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 10:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there are systems in the body that sense a slight deficiency of protein, or at least a lower level, and kick in the defenses that we think make us live a long time. But you can go to abundance and you'll feel great. You look and look great. You can build muscle a little bit more, not a lot more, a little bit more. Uh, but that, when people say that works for me, it's, you know, within a few years of timeframe. I'm talking fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty years, like you said, and that's what I'm betting on. Um, otherwise, you you're burning the candle at both ends. Now, one way to do it perhaps is to spend a year on a carnivore carnivore diet. Fix yourself, bulk up, and then switch, and then maybe go back and forth. There's a lot to be said about variety in biology.

• 10:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  And in the case of resveratrol, when we gave resveratrol to the mice, not every day, but every other day, that was the best lifespan extension.

• 11:03Lewis Howes?

  Not giving it to them in abundant formats, but in every other day or sporadically, really?

• 11:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 11:09Lewis Howes?

  So what happened to the mice when you gave it to them every day as opposed to every other day?

• 11:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  They didn't statistically live longer unless they had some other adversity, which in that case was a high-fat diet. And then resveratrol worked really well to protect them, and they lived longer.

• 11:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So have high-fat diet and that supplement?

• 11:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  Then if you're like a mouse, if you are a mouse, then you will do pretty well.

• 11:31Lewis Howes?

  That was benefiting them, got you. But for a human, how would that impact?

• 11:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, we don't actually know. There's been a number of studies. If you take a high dose, so I take a gram a day and a tiny bit of yogurt every day, and that's important. If you mix it with water, it will sink to the bottom.

• 11:44Lewis Howes?

  It won't work.

• 11:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  It won't be absorbed into the body.

• 11:46Lewis Howes?

  Really? So it needs to be, you can't just eat it, drink water, I mean, put it in a pill format and drink water?

• 11:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, so that's a real tip, is you gotta dissolve it in something, a yogurt or some olive oil, for it to get in.

• 11:58Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't dissolve in water and it won't like penetrate the system or what?

• 12:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it'll flow straight through. It's little crystal, crystal lumps. So a lot of these plant molecules, there's one called quercetin, physitin, resveratrol. A lot of the supplements you get, if you break open that capsule, and often they're yellow or white, and you put it in water and it doesn't dissolve, it'll sink to the bottom in these crunchy little crystals, it's not gonna get absorbed.

• 12:26Lewis Howes?

  So if it dissolves in water, that's good? That's okay?

• 12:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 12:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay, that's fine then.

• 12:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Some vitamins will, but most of this stuff from plants is gonna be just straight through the body. A little bit will get absorbed, but if you take it with yogurt or some food, we actually know you get five times the levels.

• 12:41Lewis Howes?

  So you can take it with food as well and it'll dissolve better, it'll digest better?

• 12:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 12:46Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Interesting. Okay. So these are a few things you mentioned. Eat less often. You didn't say eat less, you said eat less often. So you can still eat less often, but pack it in the meal?

• 12:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's what I do. I have a big dinner and I really enjoy it now because I'm not eating much during the day. Uh, and it it comes from a study, and actually it's important that when I'm not talking about malnutrition. Certainly not talking about starvation. So, you know, if you're a teenage kid, you know, this is not for you. It's kind of people in their late, late twenties, thirties at least. But you don't wanna have a calorie deficit unless you you regard yourself as being obese or your doctor recommends it. I have to maintain my weight, which I do more easily.

• 13:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so I eat a pretty big dinner and it's great. Multiple courses. I don't eat dessert though. I gave up sugar when I was forty.

• 13:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  And do not regret that at all.

• 13:35Lewis Howes?

  What have been the biggest benefits of twelve years no sugar?

• 13:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Surprisingly more energy, actually.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 13:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, this combination of the plant-based, one main meal a day and no sugar, I feel so much better. I power through the day and I measure my blood glucose levels uh on occasion.

• 13:54Lewis Howes?

  I'm supposed to be doing that soon. Do you recommend it?

• 13:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, yeah, you'll learn a lot about the body.

• 13:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and how how much junk you put in your body, but you, yeah.

• 14:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and what what you'll see, uh, what kind of meals do you have during the day? I mean, three?

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  Well, I go through, it depends on the season of life, but I try to skip breakfast most times and then, like, I haven't eaten today. And it's what, two, two forty-five? So I just had a coffee and some ghee and then, um, yeah. I'll maybe have like a protein bar in the afternoon and then I'll have a dinner. But it all depends on the season of life. Sometimes I'll have breakfast and lunch and dinner, but sometimes I'm fasting, so.

• 14:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Okay, but it sounds like you're on your way.

• 14:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  You're you're doing something.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 14:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, you're obviously doing something.

• 14:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  You look like a kid, man. It's great. What are you doing? Keep doing that. Uh, but yeah, you you wanna have this period of about eighteen hours at least to let your body uh produce its own blood sugar. And so your blood sugar actually comes from your liver. It's called a process, uh, gluconeogenesis.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 14:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  Gluco, sugar, neo, new, genesis, obviously. Uh, and what I saw in my blood levels when I was measuring it, and I do this maybe every month, is Contrasted to what somebody who eats three meals a day, it's super steady. I have this green line across here and it's wiggling here and then I dinner, it goes up a little bit. But never out of this zone unless I eat a chocolate or something.

• 15:17Lewis Howes?

  With the blood sugar levels is what you're saying, right?

• 15:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  Glucose levels.

• 15:20Lewis Howes?

  Glucose levels, not blood sugar level.

• 15:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it's called blood sugar, but glucose is the molecule.

• 15:25Lewis Howes?

  And so it goes up a little bit when you have dinner, but it's steady throughout the day.

• 15:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  For me.

• 15:30Lewis Howes?

  For you.

• 15:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Because I've trained my liver to do that.

• 15:32Lewis Howes?

  To produce, produce it at that level.

• 15:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it's really smart. It knows what I need and I power through the day. So I feel so good. I never get the brain fog. I never feel hungry. Well, not, not very. And I certainly don't have that, oh, I'm caffeinated, got a jitters kind of thing. And that's because it's steady. And I've measured myself eating three meals a day. And this is what happens. This is typical person. Breakfast, huge spike about it goes up a hundred fifty, two hundred units. And then you'll feel good for a while and then three hours later, it's called postprandial. Your body puts out a ton of insulin through pancreas. And it'll shoot down, trying pulling the glucose out of your bloodstream into your tissues. But it'll overshoot. The body just now goes down. So I'm here and every person goes up here, down there.

• 16:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  And now I can tell now I'm hungry. I can't think. I need a snack. Right. And it's down here. And then what do I do? I go and have lunch or a snack. It's back up here again. And then that's happening three times a day for most people. And that's the problem, you know, if you just want to not worry about food and be have a lot of energy and think really clearly. You want that. And that's how I am.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  So what are other ways of reaching that kind of even blood sugar level? Or glucose level, is it doing the one meal a day? Can you eat smaller meals, you know, throughout the day? How do you kind of stay consistent? What are the different ways to do it?

• 16:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well, you can eat small meals and small bits during the day. That's the old way of doing it. That's what nutritionists.

• 17:00Lewis Howes?

  Like eat five times a day, but small.

• 17:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I don't believe it.

• 17:03Lewis Howes?

  Then you're spiking it five different times, right?

• 17:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  A little bit, yeah. But really what you want is for your body to get the, the thought that it could run out of food. This is the adversity memetic. Okay, you always want your, you always want your body to feel like you could die next week.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  What are the benefits of tricking your body to think it's gonna die in a week?

• 17:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it's it's not having food in your mouth for most of the day. It's running and lifting things. Right? We know these are good for us. Now, now I'm telling you why. Uh, and I can tell you about the genes involved too. Uh, and then um, you can also change the temperature of your body. That's also puts a bit of a shock in your body. It's called horm- the whole thing is called hormesis. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

• 17:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 17:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  And you know that.

• 17:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 17:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, uh, you become resilient and long-lived. Okay, and uh, otherwise, if you're always having the abundance, tons of amino acids and meat. Your body says, hey, this is great. I don't need to do anything but build, build, build. You'll have, you know, a pretty good body. Um, by the way, you can still have a good body in this. It's just, you know, you'll you'll be a little bit leaner, maybe you know, five percent less bulky. But here, it's like burning the candle at both ends. We are always in a state of, I got so much food, screw it. I don't need to worry about protecting my body. I'm gonna have kids for the next five years, replace myself, and then I can be out of here. Whereas my mode of doing it, the adversity memetic is, the thought that my body has is, oh crap.

• 18:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  If I have kids right now, they might die. I need to stick around until food comes back. Or the mammoth goes away and doesn't chase me every day.

• 18:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so you stick around for longer. So you can get a couple of decades longer by doing what I do. Versus that, on average, everyone's different.

• 18:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 18:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  But just doing the five main things that doctors tell you, and we all know are good, like, don't smoke, don't over drink. Uh, eat good food, so Mediterranean kind of diet. Um, sleep well and don't stress out and have friends. Those things are enough to give you an average of fourteen years.

• 19:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 19:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's just the easy stuff.

• 19:06Lewis Howes?

  Cause what's the average lifespan now for a man or a woman in the US?

• 19:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Went down, dipped a little bit with COVID, but it's around uh, late seventies.

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  Late seventies, yeah. And so you're saying if you have those five things at a great level, then it could go an extra five, ten, fourteen years, what you're saying?

• 19:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, easy.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  Easily.

• 19:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's just the easy stuff. I haven't taught told you about the science and all of the stuff that I'm doing.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  That's just the basics, the foundation. How how much, now you've mentioned minimal alcohol, but how much does alcohol, smoking? Or marijuana, or psychedelics actually affect lifespan? Do we have enough research on this yet, or?

• 19:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, we do on tobacco smoking. Obviously, it's very clear. That's a decade off your life. And what's interesting is that what we're learning about these various things that you can do to hurt yourself or to protect yourself is that what's happening is that your body is aging at a different rate. So smokers, you can measure it, are older biologically than people who've never smoked. And it's why they look older, too.

• 20:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  We can measure that now. In my lab, if I took your blood, I could tell you how old you are biologically, not just your chronological.

• 20:18Lewis Howes?

  I want to do that. I saw you post this on Instagram that you're like forty-six. Is that right? Or you're forty-two? Or what is it?

• 20:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  I went down there, what was it, forty-four, I think.

• 20:26Lewis Howes?

  Okay, forty-four.

• 20:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Forty-two. It bounces around, but it's usually a decade younger than I.

• 20:29Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. So what do you do? You take a blood sample? Like, and then you what? Measure the blood?

• 20:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  There's two ways of doing it. There's one company that I advise called InsideTracker, and that's what I use.

• 20:42Lewis Howes?

  I've had that, too, yeah.

• 20:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  You've done that yet? So they come to your home, or you donate, and then you get this readout of, I think it's forty different parameters, and they use an algorithm and tell you how old you are. So I'm forty-two or something like that. I'm in the top two percent of people of my age for youthfulness. So I'm happy with that.

• 21:00Lewis Howes?

  Just dusted off a little brag over there. I like it, yeah.

• 21:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well.

• 21:03Lewis Howes?

  You better be if you're researching this and the top scientists in the world on this.

• 21:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, yeah. I don't like to brag. That's not what Australians and scientists do. But what I do want to say is I use my body as an experiment.

• 21:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  And try to be a role model. And I've been optimizing my lifestyle for twenty years now, based on this feedback from InsideTracker for the last twelve, thirteen years.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  And you can see the graphs of things going out of the optimal zone, and then I make a change based on science, and it comes back or even better.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  So we know from smokers that their biological age is older when they smoke, is what you're saying, right?

• 21:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, that's one test. The InsideTracker test is what I do routinely every few months. But there's a new type of test that my colleagues and in my lab, we've developed. It's called the DNA methylation test. It's also known as the Horvath test, named after my friend Stephen Horvath at UCLA. The way to think of this is, if you've ever heard of the epigenome?

• 21:59Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh, I've heard of that.

• 22:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  These are the, the control systems that control our DNA. It turns out that that system you can measure. It's chemicals on your DNA that change over time predictably. And we've just developed a way to measure that a hundred times cheaper than it was before. And I'm gonna bring this test to the public.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 22:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  So that people can test their biological age.

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  At home or something or?

• 22:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  It should be a cheek swab, that's what we're developing.

• 22:23Lewis Howes?

  So you don't have to prick or take blood or anything, you do a cheek swab?

• 22:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  Exactly.

• 22:27Lewis Howes?

  And then you ship it in or something or?

• 22:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, you'll post it in. And then you get, hopefully just a week later or less, here's your credit score for your body.

• 22:34Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 22:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then even better, here's how you, how do you slow it down or reverse it, based on everything we know about you.

• 22:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 22:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  We'll take you on that journey. So do this, eat this, swallow this.

• 22:46Lewis Howes?

  That is cool. I gotta take that test.

• 22:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, well, you can get on the waitlist if you want.

• 22:51Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Where, where?

• 22:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  There's a website, because we are taking names right now. We may do some studies with early adopters too.

• 22:58Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. What's, where's the waitlist for that?

• 23:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's called TALLY.

• 23:01Lewis Howes?

  T A?

• 23:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  L L Y, talleyhealth.com. And the reason I'm excited about it is it's very hard to focus on what works, because we have no idea. You exercise, you hope that it's good.

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Is it too much, too little? If I eat this, does it help me? We need a dashboard for our bodies, and that's what, that's what these give you.

• 23:19Lewis Howes?

  That is really cool. Okay, so, we know that smoking makes you age biologically. That's why it makes you look older, smoking. What about drinking alcohol? You know, we've talked about wine and the, the substance in wine that could be supportive, but alcohol in general, does that affect biological age and aging?

• 23:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it's all, it all depends on quantity.

• 23:43Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 23:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  One glass a day, most doctors would say, especially if it's red wine, it's fine. And the alcohol actually can help with cut, the cardiovascular system. Reduces bad cholesterol and more importantly raises the, the good cholesterol HDL.

• 23:56Lewis Howes?

  This is for red wine?

• 23:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the alcohol in white wine does a little bit of good too.

• 24:01Lewis Howes?

  But beer?

• 24:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  So beer will raise the levels of uric acid, which is a breakdown product of, a protein breakdown product that you can pee out. But if you have too much beer and other types of food that contain a lot of this type of protein, you will raise your uric acid level. So why does that matter? It's being Becoming very clear that if you have high uric acid levels, your body will age faster.

• 24:29Lewis Howes?

  We just had Dr. David Perlmutter on.

• 24:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Exactly.

• 24:32Lewis Howes?

  Who has a book about uric acid, talking about like this is one of the root causes of poor health.

• 24:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  And aging faster and things like that. So.

• 24:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I've talked to him a lot.

• 24:42Lewis Howes?

  You talked to him a lot?

• 24:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, yeah, I actually was one of the first people to read his book before it came out.

• 24:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's really good.

• 24:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  It blew my mind. I now measure my uric acid levels. You can get little test strips. You can just buy them as usual.

• 24:55Lewis Howes?

  You just pee on it?

• 24:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, you spit on it and 10 seconds later you see.

• 24:59Lewis Howes?

  You see your levels.

• 25:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 25:01Lewis Howes?

  And so the lower the level, the better.

• 25:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 25:05Lewis Howes?

  The higher the level means there's risk for what?

• 25:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  Everything. According to David, it's really bad for cancers and heart disease mainly. But I think he's right, that it's a sign of accelerated aging.

• 25:18Lewis Howes?

  The higher the uric level, the faster you're going to be aging.

• 25:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  And a larger amount of consumption of alcohol, specifically beer, I'm hearing raises that level.

• 25:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Beer in particular has a lot of the chemicals in it that will raise uric acid, unfortunately. And that's from David Perlmutter. He gave me a list of foods. I said beer on there, like, oh, that sucks.

• 25:41Lewis Howes?

  Now, is there any benefit to beer in biology, in science? Does it help you improve the quality of your health? Does your brain get better? Does your body, your system get better? Does it make you younger at all? Or are there no benefits to beer biologically and in your brain?

• 26:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  There are benefits because there's alcohol in there and a little bit of alcohol is good for your cardiovascular system. But.

• 26:07Lewis Howes?

  But there's other things that's good for your cardiovascular system, right? That you don't need.

• 26:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  So beer on the list of alcohols is at the bottom for health.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  Got it.

• 26:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  Mostly, unless it's full of sugar, you know, like those very sweet wines, I think would be a problem. But beer does have a lot of vitamin B, B group vitamins, B3, tons of it.

• 26:27Lewis Howes?

  But you can get that in other ways, too.

• 26:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  You can.

• 26:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  What can you do? I mean, you've got to live as well.

• 26:32Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 26:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't prescribe a life that's that's prolonging and feels longer. You've got to live a little.

• 26:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Enjoyment, the enjoyment of the richness of life, yeah.

• 26:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. Though I am trying not to drink alcohol these days.

• 26:44Lewis Howes?

  I've never been drunk in my life.

• 26:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, amazing.

• 26:47Lewis Howes?

  Never been drunk. I don't find it amazing because I just never found the the the desire, I never had the desire to do it. I never, I like tasted some when I was sixteen and I was like, I don't understand why I would ever drink this. Plus, it was also for me, maybe that's one of the reasons in your mind, I look younger, I look like I haven't aged more, is because I found it as a an advantage in sports. When everyone else was drinking, I was like, oh, it's weakening their immune system, it's making them slower. Mentally, this will give me an edge in athletics. They were hung over after games in practice and I was like, I'm gonna be sharp. And so I just kept on with it. I was like, this is just gonna make me sharper. Now, I have my other vice, I use, you know, sugar in other ways.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  This is my vice, so I'm not perfect, but um, does alcohol make you look older too?

• 27:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  In excess.

• 27:40Lewis Howes?

  In excess, got you.

• 27:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, yeah. So a little bit every day is is okay, a little bit, but most doctors, like physicians would say, if you overdo it, you you will age. And actually, what what you do as a researcher is you look at people who live a long time and compare them to either their twin, which has been done, or family members. Yeah, and actually, how you live your life has a massive impact on how long you live. There's a twin study. They took identical twins, genetically identical

• 28:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  in Denmark, and they said, okay, let's look at them through their life. And there were massive differences in how they looked and how they, how long they lived. And when they went back to see what the causes were, they could figure out, first of all, that eighty percent of their lifespan was determined by how they lived, not their genetics.

• 28:28Lewis Howes?

  You mean, the way they felt about themselves, the people they hung out with, their environment, the activities they took on, or what do you mean?

• 28:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, mostly their lifestyle, what they ate, did they smoke, did they drink, did they exercise?

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  Did they sleep well, all that stuff?

• 28:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. And those that did all the good things, the same genetics, twins born the same day, one could live ten years longer than the other.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Now, this is what I'm curious about. Were these twins hanging out all the time? Or were they, because usually when you're hanging out with someone all the time, you pick up the similar habits. Right? You pick up a similar lifestyle habit as your parents, as your partner. And you kind of eat the same things. It's really hard to be like, I'm gonna drink every day and I'm not gonna drink every day if you're living together and in the same room.

• 29:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

• 29:11Lewis Howes?

  So I wonder how that is.

• 29:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Maybe they they got separated at birth or something.

• 29:14Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 29:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, but it does tell you a lot. The the fact that eighty percent of our future health is in our own hands is is liberating.

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  That's really cool.

• 29:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Because often we think, ah, it's not gonna make a big difference. It really makes a big difference how you live your life. Every day, focus on that. And one thing that I do is I look at my future self and I ask myself, what's that guy saying to me today if he could speak to me?

• 29:35Lewis Howes?

  What's he saying? Please don't eat that.

• 29:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Exactly.

• 29:38Lewis Howes?

  Please don't drink that anymore. You had enough, like, you're gonna hurt me in ten years.

• 29:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's how you need to think about it.

• 29:43Lewis Howes?

  It's coaching yourself ten, twenty, thirty years out.

• 29:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 29:47Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. I asked David Perlmutter, I said, what are some things you wish you would have done young, sooner? To improve the quality of your health? And he was like,

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  flossing. He was like, he's like, I, and I didn't go deeper into that, but I remember him saying that. And I was like, there's wisdom in whatever it is. Maybe he had some gum issues or something he had to deal with at one point that was really affecting him for a year or two. I don't know. I'm just making this up. But if he could go back, he'd be like, I wish you would have done this better. So I didn't have to suffer later. Right?

• 30:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 30:17Lewis Howes?

  What are the things you've done or you're doing now that your ten-year-old self will be so happy for? Like, if he was in front of you right now, he'd just be hugging you and high-fiving you nonstop. The things you're doing that he will appreciate in ten years. And then what are a few things that he's gonna say, man, I really wish you wouldn't do that right now?

• 30:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. So, um, let's see. So I'm. So I measure myself so I can speak scientifically, not just that it make me feel good. It's the one meal, one main meal a day.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  He would be grateful for.

• 30:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm sure of it. And as a result, I'm leaner and, you know, more ripped.

• 30:59Lewis Howes?

  You look lean.

• 31:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  I am lean.

• 31:01Lewis Howes?

  You look really lean.

• 31:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  I've gone over the last two years from one hundred and fifty pounds to one hundred and thirty three.

• 31:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you look leaner even from when I, the first time I had you on. Your face is leaner and chiseled.

• 31:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I don't think I can lose any, I wanna lose anymore.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  I need to go back to the gym and do a little bit more.

• 31:18Lewis Howes?

  So the one meal a day, but you weren't doing one meal a day, what, five, 10 years ago?

• 31:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, I only started during the pandemic. Yeah, this is new for me too. It's hard, actually. When you begin.

• 31:29Lewis Howes?

  Very hard.

• 31:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  You feel hungry because you've got those crashes that make you really hungry and you've got this hormone called ghrelin that makes you hungry. But once you get through that, it takes about three weeks. So anyone who tries it, make sure that you don't give up early. Just power through and then your liver will wake up.

• 31:46Lewis Howes?

  One main meal a day.

• 31:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  So that's one. The other thing I think that he will be happy is don't eat sugary foods.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 31:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Don't eat that cake. So at a restaurant, when they said you want dessert, I always say no, but then I'm hoping that someone at the table orders what I want. But that's all you, all I need. I need to taste it. I don't need to fill myself with a cake.

• 32:11Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 32:13Lewis Howes?

  Because you still want to enjoy your life and live a full life, but you don't want to in 10 years be like, why do they eat cake every day?

• 32:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's not worth it.

• 32:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Really. Your future self will thank you for it.

• 32:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Lifting weights, I know you do that, so I need to do more of that. I got a standing desk. So most of the day I'm standing, which is great. Again, you have to get used to it. You'll feel tired for the first few weeks.

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Your legs will.

• 32:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm now mostly. Focused on eating plants.

• 32:45Lewis Howes?

  When did you start that?

• 32:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's recently.

• 32:49Lewis Howes?

  Eating mostly plants?

• 32:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I've switched. I love meat. I wish that I could eat more. But you just got to look at the science. There's some really good studies of thousands of people. You just look at how long people live and what they eat. And I mean, it's not even an argument.

• 33:02Lewis Howes?

  But there's so many people that bring in the argument, well, all these people have cured these diseases or whatever, you know, gotten rid of these things from meat only and. But people make the argument, right? Like you see it online, people making the argument for meat, meat, meat. So how, where are they finding these research studies of people living longer on a only meat diet?

• 33:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't know.

• 33:23Lewis Howes?

  But you're not seeing them. You're not seeing studies of anyone that lives over a hundred that all they do is eat meat.

• 33:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, there might be one person or two, but when you look at 10,000 people, what they eat. It's, uh, it's the vegan and, and the pescatarian that win out.

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  In the blue zones, right?

• 33:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And, and the, the numbers are something like that. You, you drop it down to you've got 88% less chance. Or actually it's, it's 12% chance for most diseases. So most diseases are protected by these diets.

• 33:50Lewis Howes?

  Really? Wait a minute, 80% less chance of what?

• 33:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, of dying at any one point in the age range of the study, which.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  Which is.

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  By, by eating, by being a pescatarian?

• 34:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Yeah. So it's vegan, pescatarian, those are the best. Then above that would be, um, actually pescatarian was better than vegetarian. A little bit of meat seemed to help, but it has to be fish.

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm. With the omega threes in there, right?

• 34:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And, and particularly, uh, oleic acid's good, which is found in avocados and olive oil. Uh, that activates one of the protective enzymes that we study in the lab.

• 34:26Lewis Howes?

  Which acid?

• 34:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oleic. O L E I C.

• 34:30Lewis Howes?

  What is some of that, but not a lot of that?

• 34:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's a monounsaturated fatty acid or a MOFA. Uh, if you have a bit of olive oil, uh, there's a supplement online that I get that has high levels of oleic acid in it that I take every day.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 34:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  With the DHA and EPA.

• 34:44Lewis Howes?

  All that stuff, yeah.

• 34:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  All that good stuff.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 34:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, so that's my, that's my fish intake is a pill.

• 34:49Lewis Howes?

  You don't eat fish? Or you eat very little?

• 34:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, you know, I'm evolving my, my diet. So I've, I've gone from a Mediterranean diet over the last 10 years to the last. Two, three months to all plant-based, no dairy and yeah, no meat. And I'm just seeing what happens to my body. I'm measuring things. It's an experiment.

• 35:10Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 35:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's not a philosophy. And if things don't work out biologically, I'll go back. I mean, I'd love to go back to a steak. I'm Australian after all. But you know, I'm driven by science and that's all it is.

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Okay. So you got these four. Was there another thing that your future self would thank you for? One meal a day, don't eat sugary foods. That's gonna be one of the most challenging for me. Lifting weights, eating mostly plants. Was there anything else?

• 35:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Get control over psychological stress.

• 35:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah. Why is this so important?

• 35:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, the, the main problem is you have high levels of cortisol when you're stressed out psychologically. And it, it's clear that people who have high levels of, really high levels of stress are chronically ill. And even it accelerates gray hair. That's actually a fact. It's not just a myth. You really are getting older if you have stress.

• 36:04Lewis Howes?

  Really? So this scientifically proven that if you're stressed out all the time or more frequently, you're gonna get older biologically?

• 36:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Correct.

• 36:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 36:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 36:14Lewis Howes?

  Can you reverse gray hair without dyes?

• 36:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, yes.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 36:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, not routinely, but there are examples of that. There are some drugs that have shown in the clinic that make hair go gray, uh, from gray to brown. The, the, the best example I can tell you is that, that when people are stressed out, let's say they're in, they're in the banking world and they're, they're losing their minds. You can find hairs that start to turn gray. Okay. So you look at them and they're a little bit gray at the bottom. Oh, good. Turning gray. Okay. Then they get given a vacation and they go away for a couple of weeks. And guess what happens to the hair shaft?

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  It gets brown.

• 36:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's brown again.

• 36:57Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 36:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  You can find these gray brown segments of hair.

• 37:01Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 37:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and what they they tracked it down to was that the cells that make the hair pigment start to shut down, but they can be reinvigorated. But I suspect, once you've been gray for a number of years, it's really hard.

• 37:14Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to reverse that, yeah.

• 37:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, but but, you know, I'm I'm the first person to say aging is is not unidirectional. In my lab, we're driving it forwards and backwards at will. It's not.

• 37:24Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 37:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Really difficult anymore, once you figure it out. Any high school student could do it, these days, in a mouse, at least.

• 37:31Lewis Howes?

  To drive the aging process faster and also reverse it at any time.

• 37:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 37:37Lewis Howes?

  Just by doing a few of these things.

• 37:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, tho- those things will certainly slow it down and may retard it, and maybe even reverse it by a couple of years. The Mediterranean diet, there was a study that came out, what is it, last year? And people on on a Mediterranean diet, which.

• 37:52Lewis Howes?

  Which includes what?

• 37:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  So it's it's it's a lot of plants, it's focusing on good fats, the avocado kind of and olive oil, you know, think Greek kind of food, a little bit of meat, but mostly fish. That's Mediterranean, and a bit of red wine. So that's that. That, if you give that to people or tell them to eat it for a year, they will be younger at the end of that year than people who didn't switch.

• 38:14Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, wow.

• 38:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. But age reversal is a little different. I don't think, just by avoiding sugar, you're gonna reverse your age. Otherwise, we'd have people living a thousand years. But what it does, what we do know is that you can actually flip a switch and reset the body, at least a human cell, or a mouse, to be about fifty percent younger, even more than that.

• 38:36Lewis Howes?

  By not eating sugar?

• 38:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  No.

• 38:38Lewis Howes?

  Or by all these other things?

• 38:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  By my lab at Harvard.

• 38:41Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, geez.

• 38:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Not we, it's not mainstream yet, but we hope it will be. So we're developing medicines that can reverse the age.

• 38:47Lewis Howes?

  Can reverse aging?

• 38:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  Reverse, yeah.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  By fifty percent, you're saying?

• 38:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  At least fifty percent.

• 38:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 38:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  We do it in the eye all the time. We just published this about a year ago, that we could reset the age of a mouse's eye, so that it was, it went from being blind to having a young eye again.

• 39:02Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 39:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then it stays young, and then the mice get old and die with young eyes.

• 39:06Lewis Howes?

  No way. So they can keep looking like sharp and clear, twenty twenty vision.

• 39:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 39:12Lewis Howes?

  But the body shuts down.

• 39:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so so now what we've done is we've we've learned how to age mice. We can do that, we understand aging well enough to do that. So we drive their age forward. So we have a twin. Twin mice, if you come to my lab. I gotta see this in Boston. Yep, yep, at Harvard Medical School. We have mice that are twins and they're born with black hair. And when we age them, they get gray hair. And so you've got these twins in the same cage, they've grown up, eaten the same stuff. One's gray and one's black, same age. But we've aged one fifty percent. That we've been doing for a decade, that's, that's in my book. That, that we've been able to do, that's not hard. You've been able to age them? Aging things has been easy. Yeah. I know, it sounds crazy. Eat poorly, don't sleep well, have a stressful environment, yes.

• 39:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, but we, we do it a little bit more different, differently. We use an enzyme to cut their chromosomes and that accelerates the changes. Interesting, okay. But here's the thing, now we can take those mice, what we're doing in the lab now is not just reprogramming and resetting the age of the eyes of those old mice, but the whole body. And you've already done that? It's in progress. We have, we have a mouse called Lisa, who's our first test case. And she's having her age reversed right now. Have you been seeing like, so she had white hair or gray hair? Yeah. And is it? And frailty and sickness, well, we'll see, it's in progress. The bones are like, yeah. Well, we're hopeful, we've, we've reprogrammed a middle aged mouse. And let it go for a year and it seemed healthier. It didn't have any more cancer, if anything, it had less cancer.

• 40:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  But here's the thing with science, you have to do what the reviewers, the judges of your, of your paper tell you to do, if you want to publish it, which is our currency. And this paper we published a year ago, which was in the journal Nature, which is really hard to get into. The reviewer said, you have to prove to us that this treatment, which is a gene therapy, we turn on three genes in the body of the mouse, in the eye of the mouse, prove to us that it doesn't cause cancer. Right, that's one. Yeah, but how do you prove that? Well, we had these mice that we had, we're hoping to make live for, you know, another three years instead of two years. But they're all the mice we had, so we had to kill our precious mice that we were testing age reversal on, to see if there was any cancer in them. Now, there wasn't, there was slightly less, but we've had to go back and restart.

• 41:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  But there are technical challenges to reversing aging right now. The gene therapy is, it's not easy to, to give the genes to the mouse or the human. Hmm. I mean theoretically, you'd come to my lab, we could inject ourselves and see what happens. We won't do that, but theoretically you could. But the problem with it is, A, we don't know human safety. Right. The other problem technically is that trying to give these genes to all the cells in the body is hard. If we inject a mouse with these gene therapies, so they're viruses that carry genes. We can get into the eye, just put in the eye in a needle.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  And it won't go through the rest of the body?

• 41:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, it stays in the eye. That's what's great about that is the therapy. It's not gonna

• 42:00Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 42:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  cancer in the liver because it's stuck in the eye. It's also not gonna ignite or turn on your immune system if it's just in the eye. It's called immune privileged.

• 42:10Lewis Howes?

  The eyeball is.

• 42:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 42:11Lewis Howes?

  Isn't it connected to the brain? Isn't it a part of the brain?

• 42:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 42:14Lewis Howes?

  From Huberman saying it's a piece of the brain?

• 42:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  It does.

• 42:16Lewis Howes?

  So it doesn't go into the brain that way, or is it stopping the eye?

• 42:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, our gene therapy will travel all the way into the brain.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  The brain, that doesn't go into the immune system?

• 42:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, no, it stops there.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  But does it cause tumors in the brain?

• 42:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, thank goodness. No, we haven't seen any evidence of tumors.

• 42:30Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 42:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  But what we need to do is develop these viruses and eventually chemicals and a pill and a supplement that can do the same thing and spread this age reversal throughout the body evenly. And we don't have good technology to do that yet. Mostly it goes to the liver and to some other parts of the body like the spleen.

• 42:50Lewis Howes?

  So it spreads right now?

• 42:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  Spreads, but imagine being able to take a pill. So what we're doing in my lab right now, so my, you know, some people forget that I'm professor because I profess too much, but I have a lab of 20 people, a lot of students and budding, what we call postdoc PhDs. And their goal, one of them is to understand, how do you reset the body? Where is the backup copy of youth? We don't know where that is yet. We know how to flip the switch, but where it's stored, we don't know. We're looking for the hard drive. So there's that. But also, I think one of the coolest things is, can you reverse the age of the body with chemicals? And by chemicals, I mean maybe a plant molecule or something in food. And, and there's some evidence, there's a study that just came out of a chemical

• 43:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  that we all make in our bodies, not a lot of it, called alpha keto glutamate. There's probably 10 grams of it in our bodies, my guess. But if you, if you give people, I think it was a gram a day, but don't quote me on that, but it's, it's a high dose, and measure their biological age with this test that I was telling about, looking at the chemicals on the DNA.

• 43:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  They claim, alright, it's a big claim that within eight months, no, seven months, they went back eight years.

• 44:05Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 44:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  In age. I know, it's crazy, isn't it?

• 44:07Lewis Howes?

  So they did a, there was this study that ever came out, this recent study.

• 44:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  A few months ago.

• 44:12Lewis Howes?

  Are you guys, now what happens in the scientific world? Do you guys, I mean, scientists go and try to discredit this or disprove it?

• 44:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh yeah, that's our job. Our job is to be skeptical.

• 44:23Lewis Howes?

  So you go in and say, okay, I'm gonna use the exact same protocol you used.

• 44:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 44:27Lewis Howes?

  And see if I can discredit this. But, but if you do it and then it works and you take the, the blood draw and the biologic, the biological age is the same, then you say, okay, I reviewed this paper and it's either works or it didn't work. So what happens, what needs to happen in order for it to, a, a paper to actually be credible in the science world?

• 44:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Lewis, that's a really important question because science works this way and a lot of people don't understand how hard it is to get something proven in science. If you show it once, no one's gonna believe you. It has to be shown not just once, but probably 10 times.

• 45:03Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 45:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  And it has to be done in, reproduced independently by someone who has, who's not your best friend, who gives no crap about your career. And if they cannot disprove you, after a few years, you might actually be right. But it takes this vetting. So these new studies that come out in the press about, oh, you know, eat this, you'll, you know, you'll be fitter or.

• 45:24Lewis Howes?

  But if it's one study, it doesn't mean anything.

• 45:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, it usually it's, yeah, pull the other one, like.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 45:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  This one. Fortunately, I, I haven't had that happen to me where we put out something that was disproven, but, but it happens all the time.

• 45:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 45:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I, I think it, scientists shouldn't be fearful of making mistakes. It's the same in business. You gotta take a risk and go for it and that's progress. Uh, but it's pretty brutal when people, uh, when scientists make a mistake. Sometimes it's inadvertent, sometimes it's just too complicated or they make wrong conclusions. But you can have careers destroyed by being really wrong about something.

• 45:59Lewis Howes?

  So what's this paper giving you hope about then? Even though it's not fully vetted yet in the science world, but what is it telling you?

• 46:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, let's imagine that even only 10% of it is true and you can go back.

• 46:14Lewis Howes?

  A year or two.

• 46:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. That's still a freaking big deal.

• 46:19Lewis Howes?

  And that's by just taking, what, a supplement?

• 46:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's a supplement, alpha keto glut rate. I have nothing to do with the company. I'm not.

• 46:24Lewis Howes?

  Have you taken this before or no?

• 46:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm, I am taking it actually.

• 46:28Lewis Howes?

  Now you are.

• 46:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm taking it after that study.

• 46:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 46:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  To see what happens. I'm measuring my biological age fairly frequently to see what happens. I'm, I'm the guinea pig.

• 46:36Lewis Howes?

  You're the guinea pig. Alpha, what is it?

• 46:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Keto.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  Keto.

• 46:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Glutarate.

• 46:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's just a little chemical that the body uses in what's called the citric acid cycle or TCA cycle. It makes energy in the body, but it also has this other role. It's used as fuel to control the clock.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  How so?

• 46:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  I can draw it if you want.

• 46:59Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 47:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  I know we have a white pad somewhere.

• 47:01Lewis Howes?

  You got a whiteboard.

• 47:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  All right, let's do that. I'm left handed. I'll see if I can do this for everybody.

• 47:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 47:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  So here, here's what I'm, I'm going to draw.

• 47:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 47:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  For Lewis and the rest of you. All right. DNA is a long string of chemi, of a chemical in the cell, which is six foot long in every cell.

• 47:15Lewis Howes?

  A DNA is a six foot long chemical in a cell?

• 47:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yes.

• 47:19Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 47:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  But it has to be wrapped up.

• 47:21Lewis Howes?

  In the cell?

• 47:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's wrapped up in the cells because it has to fit into a microscopic little bag of membranous bag.

• 47:26Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 47:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  And there's six of those, six feet of those.

• 47:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 47:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  When you add that up over your whole body, you can go to the moon and back eight times.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 47:34Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's how long this chemical is and how. But it has to fit in your body and into a cell. It has to be wrapped up. And that's, that's partly what's controlling which genes are on and which genes are off. So let me draw DNA as a line here. Right. So I've drawn little circles on a board and these are called histones. These are the DNA packing proteins. These allow that string to be put into microscopic size.

• 47:58Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 47:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the way they do it is that the DNA, and this is now DNA is this little line I'm drawing. It goes around about two times.

• 48:04Lewis Howes?

  It's so fascinating, the human body.

• 48:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  You know, when, when you see how complicated the body is, you, it's hard to imagine how, how it actually happened. But four billion years is a long time for something to happen.

• 48:14Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 48:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  All right. So now we've got this, this DNA molecule wrapped around proteins. My point is that these packing proteins are not evenly distributed. Some parts of the DNA are totally packed. So this is your DNA. This is a double helix and there's a code on here. A, some of these are Ts.

• 48:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Some of these are Cs and some of these are Gs. Okay, and that's the code, but it could be A, T, C.

• 48:43Lewis Howes?

  Okay, it can be any order though.

• 48:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 48:44Lewis Howes?

  A, T, C, G.

• 48:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and there's billions of them in this strand that make up this chemical. And, you know, we have twenty-three different chromosomes, so they're split into twenty-three chunks.

• 48:53Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 48:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Okay, six feet divided by twenty-three. And this letter code is what tells the cell how to make new proteins, how to behave, and it also encodes the genes for every type of cell in the body. So this code here might be the gene for a nerve cell.

• 49:14Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  But there's a problem, this DNA is also gonna be in a liver cell. So what the heck would a liver cell wanna do with a nerve cell, with a nerve gene?

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't need it, does it?

• 49:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  Doesn't need it.

• 49:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 49:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  But it's still in the cell, so the cell has a problem. The gene is there but doesn't need it. In fact, not only does it not need it, it's a bad thing if it turns it on.

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  Turns into cancer or tumors or what?

• 49:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, or it'll start to function like a nerve cell and it's supposed to be a liver cell and vice versa. So when we're developing in the embryo and we start to get, because we're multi-cellular, we have a trillion cells, each cell starts to package things differently. So this packaging here in a nerve cell is gonna be different than a liver cell.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 49:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  So this is what's called silencing. Okay, so this gene is off.

• 50:02Lewis Howes?

  Because it's in the liver, you don't need it, so it's turned off.

• 50:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yep, and this gene here, in this little segment here, we're gonna say that's on because that's needed for the nerve cell.

• 50:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 50:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  So now you got.

• 50:13Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 50:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Off, on, off, on.

• 50:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so it's a strand of genes throughout the body and some are turned off in certain areas of the body that don't need to be turned on.

• 50:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 50:22Lewis Howes?

  Got it.

• 50:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that's what gives our cells specificity. That's how they know how to behave when we're young. It's why we work optimally when we're young. Because this structure, this pattern of on, off, on, off, is perfect.

• 50:35Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  But.

• 50:37Lewis Howes?

  We mess it up as adults.

• 50:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  It changes over time.

• 50:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 50:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we can measure that because there's a chemical that binds to this C letter. Called a methyl, I'm calling it ME for short, right? So that ME is a DNA methyl. A methyl is pretty simple, it's just a carbon with three hydrogens on it. But it's a chemical tag that says, in this cell, can you please keep this gene off forever? But this doesn't have methyls, so that's on. So that's the way the cell says off, on.

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  Is with the methyls.

• 51:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  The methyls, in part. It's a major thing. But what we can do, now we go into the lab and I take your DNA and I can see, oh, wow. In some of your cells, that methyl got taken away. Holy crap.

• 51:22Lewis Howes?

  So it's on when it's supposed to be off.

• 51:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 51:25Lewis Howes?

  Which is not good.

• 51:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  And now your brain cell is partially behaving like a liver cell, which is bad news. You do not want that. And that, I believe, sir, is what is aging.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, so what happens when this methyl, methyl, it was called? When does this start to not function?

• 51:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it'll be, it'll be removed over time through all sorts of issues. One is a broken chromosome will, will cause these problems, accelerate aging. Crushing a nerve will accelerate it. Really bad damage to a cell takes these away. So you, you want these to stick around.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  To stick around. How do you strengthen those then? And how do you get them to stick around, all these things you're talking about?

• 52:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  The things that we do in our daily lives, we know preserve that pattern. So nerve cells remember that they need to be nerve cells. But here's the thing, now we have the technology to put them back on where they belong.

• 52:20Lewis Howes?

  We do.

• 52:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, my, the reprogramming stuff I just told you about. And somehow there's a, a backup copy of this pattern in cells that we can turn on and it takes a few weeks. But that's how we reinstate youthfulness in the body.

• 52:34Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 52:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's really cool, and I don't even know how it works. Somehow the cell remembers that if that's missing, it needs to go back on there.

• 52:42Lewis Howes?

  And it puts it back in.

• 52:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  We don't know how. Maybe there's some other chemical on here that we don't know that is a flag that says, this is where it should go if you want to be young again. And we're looking for that right now.

• 52:53Lewis Howes?

  That's fascinating. So that is aging right there. When those things are turned off, when they're not, when they were removed, when they're not supposed to be removed.

• 53:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and you know, sometimes you get one over here that shouldn't be here as well. But it's this what we call DNA methylation pattern that changes over time. And I can read that and tell you how old you are exactly within about five percent error. And predict when you're going to die unless you change your life. Do you know, we can draw a graph, right? When you're young, you age pretty quickly, surprisingly, even before birth. And then it's linear, you get a straight line. Okay, and this is, what is this? Let's call this eighty years at the bottom here. So I can take someone's blood. Let's take Louis's blood.

• 53:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 53:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Louis, I'm gonna say he's pretty young. He's been doing the right things, doesn't drink a lot. And what, you're thirty nine?

• 53:46Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 53:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  All right, let's put you halfway through life.

• 53:49Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 53:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  You're gonna come out here compared to people who have smoked, drank, didn't exercise, didn't get a standing desk. They will come out here. And that means they're much closer to death.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 54:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  Than you are.

• 54:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  But here's the good news. You can slow this down. You can change the trajectory. If you're here and you know you're gonna die in the year twenty seventy, you can slow that down. So that you can, you can extend your life that way.

• 54:16Lewis Howes?

  That's so fascinating.

• 54:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  By doing the right things.

• 54:18Lewis Howes?

  That's so fascinating.

• 54:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  And eventually we will be able to take that person and bring them back down.

• 54:22Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 54:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  To there. We do that in, we did that already in the eye.

• 54:26Lewis Howes?

  That's so crazy. So you can do it in a, in the eye, but not in the whole body yet?

• 54:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Give us a few years.

• 54:31Lewis Howes?

  Give it a few years.

• 54:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, we're not just working on it. There's been billions of dollars now invested in this.

• 54:35Lewis Howes?

  I'm sure, yeah.

• 54:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Jeff Bezos and the like have put money into it.

• 54:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm sure. They're trying, they're trying to live longer too. They want to extend this.

• 54:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, yeah. Imagine a world where you could do that for, for people. And it's, it's not about living forever. This is really important, Louis, is that the reason I do this is because I think medicine can be done better. We're treating aging at the end of life. When diseases caused by aging have taken hold, trying to treat Alzheimer's without taking into account aging is, is crazy. That's like putting a Band-Aid on, you know, the thing that's actually cutting you.

• 55:08Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 55:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  So we, we far too often ignore the thing that's causing the problem. And ninety percent of the diseases in old age are caused by aging itself, by probably by that process that I was drawing before. And so by reversing the age of a part of the body, we can actually make diseases go away, which is better than just trying to slow them down. And we we know, well, I should say, we we don't know. In biology, we never know anything. It's not like physics. So in biology, we think what's going on is that if you can reverse the age of an Alzheimer's brain, that mouse will not have Alzheimer's. And we're doing this in the lab right now.

• 55:42Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy. Can you, when someone has, you know, if someone already has Alzheimer's, are you able to reverse that? Or is that very challenging to do?

• 55:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, right now, it's impossible.

• 55:52Lewis Howes?

  There's no solution for it right now. Once you have it, it's like just trying to do what? Keep the brain active enough to like maintain the memory and that activity as long as you can?

• 56:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yes, yes. But but that's because the cause of the disease, which is aging, is not being addressed. The age of the brain is old. You don't get Alzheimer's when you're twenty and thirty. There's a reason, because the brain is young and youthful and can can repair itself.

• 56:16Lewis Howes?

  And so you gotta think of what are the activities that will keep my brain young longer?

• 56:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, long enough until we can de-age your brain. And then, so we we

• 56:26Lewis Howes?

  And these are the things you're talking about right here. That'll help the brain.

• 56:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Do those things.

• 56:29Lewis Howes?

  Do these five things.

• 56:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Lewis Howes?

  And you'll hopefully prevent Alzheimer's, or you'll you'll wait longer until you have it.

• 56:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's not even debatable. We know the people who do those things, the kind of things that I do in my life, delay those diseases by a lot, independent of genetics. Now, there are some bad genes. There's one called APOE four allele, it's called, that predisposes to Alzheimer's. And we've put that and gene variants like that into mice, and we're giving them the equivalent of Alzheimer's. And we also age their brains so that the mouse doesn't have a two-year-old brain, it's like thirty, forty-year-old mouse brain. So remember, we can drive aging forwards, but we can also take away aging. And we've de-aged those mouse brains that have gotten dementia, Alzheimer's. And guess what happens?

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 57:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  They can learn again.

• 57:20Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 57:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Really? Yeah, that's in the lab right now. We haven't published it. So I don't want to scoop myself.

• 57:25Lewis Howes?

  It's not peer reviewed yet, yes.

• 57:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's not peer reviewed. But I can tell you what's happening.

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 57:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we can also do this in the dish. We grow little brains from human cells. I could, I could make a mini Lewis Howes brain in the lab.

• 57:36Lewis Howes?

  Come on. You can make a little brain?

• 57:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  I could make brains.

• 57:39Lewis Howes?

  From what? Just a?

• 57:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  From, I'd take some skin back to the lab.

• 57:42Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 57:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  I could, what I would do is de-differentiate, which means put them back to a stem cell state. So make them age zero instead of age, you know, eighty-five percent less, go to a hundred percent less. Now that cell will make millions of copies of itself. Will have dishes of your cells. And then by applying the right genes and chemicals, I can make anything from those.

• 58:04Lewis Howes?

  What?

• 58:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, not a car, but biologically.

• 58:06Lewis Howes?

  You can make a brain?

• 58:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  We do this every month in my lab.

• 58:09Lewis Howes?

  So you could see an actual, you could take my cells or my skin, put it in a, a test tube and then?

• 58:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's a little plate like that.

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  A little dish.

• 58:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's a Petri dish, yeah.

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  Petri dish?

• 58:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  And you can, how big can this brain actually get to?

• 58:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  Pretty big. Uh, well, you know, it's, it's like a pea, a big pea. Uh, but they think they've got brainwaves. We can measure the electrical activity.

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  They think?

• 58:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I think they might even dream at night. I'm not sure about that. But they definitely have brainwaves. Yeah, yeah.

• 58:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So it won't grow bigger though, huh?

• 58:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, the longer you leave it, the bigger they grow it, but eventually they don't have a, um, a bloodstream. So it's hard for the oxygen to get in. But they, they, they have parts of the brain with different cell types.

• 58:50Lewis Howes?

  That is fascinating.

• 58:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  Even immune cells in there.

• 58:52Lewis Howes?

  Well, I hear they're growing organs and ears and all these other things, right? I mean, this has been happening for a long time now.

• 58:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  Exactly. This is the cutting edge of biology right now. But, but here's, uh, one of the cool things is you can, you can see these things and I've got whole plates of shaking little brains. Uh, if you, if you go to my Instagram, I've got some photos of this.

• 59:09Lewis Howes?

  I want to see this.

• 59:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Check it out. They're, they're really cute.

• 59:11Lewis Howes?

  Little brains.

• 59:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  We call them the, the little, little guffs.

• 59:14Lewis Howes?

  Do you have a brain? A little baby brain?

• 59:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't have my own brain.

• 59:17Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 59:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I think Harvard frowns on that.

• 59:22Lewis Howes?

  Okay, gotcha. You're getting like little mice brain or something, or like little.

• 59:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  That we can do. That's easy. But what we do is we take skin cells from people that have gotten Alzheimer's disease or are already old versus normal people who don't get Alzheimer's typically. And we can make mini brains out of those and have a look what happens when we age them to, you know, 80 years and then reverse them. And that's what we're doing now and it's working.

• 59:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So what will that, what will you be able to do then? Will you be able to take the stem cells and inject that into a person who has Alzheimer's? Is that like, you know, in the future, what that would be like? Or how is that to help them reverse it?

• 59:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, so my philosophy in biology, it's better to fix what you've got because it's already assembled.

• 1:00:03Lewis Howes?

  Prevent what you have, yeah.

• 1:00:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, prevent's the most important. What we talk about today that you do in your life, that's number one. That doesn't take a lot of technology. In fact, that just takes a bit of willpower and a change of lifestyle and habit.

• 1:00:14Lewis Howes?

  Discipline, yeah.

• 1:00:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. So that's, that's easy to do. But stay alive till these technologies come online over the next five, 10, 20 years. The, the important part of it is that we can actually fix what's in place. So in the case of the eye, when we reprogrammed the mouse's eye, we didn't add any new cells. We just woke them up from being old. We rejuvenated them. And then they could see like normal, like a young mouse again. And that's so much easier than trying to replace the cells, you know, by putting stem cells in the eye. To me, that is just technically challenging.

• 1:00:48Lewis Howes?

  So you just wake it up?

• 1:00:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And I think we, we forget that the body still has the information, the DNA, to be young. It's just not packaged correctly.

• 1:00:57Lewis Howes?

  It's the methanols, right?

• 1:00:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  The methyls.

• 1:00:59Lewis Howes?

  Methols that get messed up.

• 1:01:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And put those back on and make those, those bundles and those loops that say off and on, go back to the original pattern. In the same way, it's like polishing a scratch CD, if anyone remembers an old CD. Instead of skipping songs, you polish it, now it can read the right songs or the right genes at the right time. And that's youth again.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 1:01:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  But how cool is that? And someone who is 100 years old, who looks 100. Most of their cells could be young. They have the information in their DNA to be young again, just put the methyls back on.

• 1:01:34Lewis Howes?

  Could it make them look younger too?

• 1:01:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, of course.

• 1:01:37Lewis Howes?

  So if you're hundred, you can make you look, what, seventy? I mean, how how young could you look potentially?

• 1:01:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, yeah, this this is where my colleagues start to get upset. But there's no biological law that says we can't rejuvenate externally and internally. We've done internally, that's easy. Like, the eye looked younger when we looked at it. Uh, its shape, the structures that are complicated, went back to being young again. It should be true for the hair and the skin as well.

• 1:02:05Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:02:07Lewis Howes?

  We don't have, we haven't seen it yet.

• 1:02:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, we've got that experiment in progress. Lisa is being rejuvenated right now.

• 1:02:13Lewis Howes?

  That's fascinating. Do you have a video of Lisa somewhere on your Instagram? I want to see this.

• 1:02:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, Lisa is on my Instagram.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  Okay, I'll check it out.

• 1:02:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yes, a couple of my, the brother is there.

• 1:02:22Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh, this is fascinating stuff. What are the three technologies that are coming in five, ten, twenty years? That will be connected to us or will be using to really help reverse aging?

• 1:02:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, connected to us is important. We're living in an age where we're going to be fused or at least stuck to machines that measure us all the time.

• 1:02:47Lewis Howes?

  That's happening now with levels and these other, you know, devices, right?

• 1:02:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, levels is is just the first foray into that. I talk a lot about about it in my book, about where we're going from having a big patch that measures one thing to having a patch under the skin that measures thousands of things.

• 1:03:02Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 1:03:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  And in the future, and it's not that far away, uh, we will have on our phones an avatar that tells us how we're doing and what we should eat, where we should go for lunch. We're deficient in that, or if we're going to have a heart attack next week, get to the doctor now.

• 1:03:17Lewis Howes?

  That's fascinating.

• 1:03:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  So why couldn't we live another decade on top of what I'm doing? Just by predicting diseases, by measuring things constantly? How crazy is it that we go to the doctor once a year for a checkup? And they say, oh, how are you feeling? That's not medicine. It should, we should be measured a thousand times a second. And there are devices that do that. Um, I have, I have one that I put on my chest. If I didn't put it down, I might even have, it's still in my pocket, hold on. So this normally goes on my chest.

• 1:03:46Lewis Howes?

  What is it?

• 1:03:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  It ran out of batteries, but it lasts for two weeks. It's called a bio button.

• 1:03:50Lewis Howes?

  You stick it on?

• 1:03:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  Stick it on your chest.

• 1:03:52Lewis Howes?

  You can leave it there?

• 1:03:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Leave it there, you can swim and shower with it. And it's measuring the body at a thousand times a second.

• 1:03:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:03:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, it just flashed. And it communicates with your phone. And it tells your doctor and you if you have any heart issues. But it also measures your body temperature, your movement, your sleep. Uh, even can tell if you have a cold or a flu or a COVID.

• 1:04:15Lewis Howes?

  What's this called?

• 1:04:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's called a bio button.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  Bio button?

• 1:04:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and it's actually FDA, FDA approved, which means your hospital, your doctor can send you home with one of these. And you'll be monitored by a nurse or a doctor 24/7 in case something goes wrong.

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 1:04:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the moment that somebody dies from a heart attack, where the doctor didn't give them one of these for 20 bucks, there's gonna be a lawsuit that says, why didn't you give my dad or mom one of these bio buttons for 20 bucks?

• 1:04:43Lewis Howes?

  That would predict when a heart attack is coming.

• 1:04:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Could have saved his or her life. And then these will become ubiquitous. Your doctor will probably send you one of these in the mail a week before you come in for a checkup. Eventually, we'll all not want to leave the home without one. We'll sleep with them because, I mean, who wants to die from a heart attack if you can prevent it? That's what these will do.

• 1:05:03Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing. There's other, so there's devices out there like the bio button, uh, like levels, like Ora Ring that are, that are telling us information now.

• 1:05:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and they're exploding. I get my heart rate and my sleep patterns done, uh, by my bed every night. And it's adjusting the temperature.

• 1:05:19Lewis Howes?

  The bed is doing that for you?

• 1:05:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  The bed does all of that, yeah. My bed knows more about my sex life than, than probably everybody but my partner.

• 1:05:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, it's called Eight Sleep.

• 1:05:29Lewis Howes?

  Eight Sleep, I know that one, yeah.

• 1:05:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Lewis Howes?

  And that tells you, it's what, tracking your body temperature?

• 1:05:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Temperature and movement, uh, heart rate.

• 1:05:39Lewis Howes?

  Really? And it'll what, make it cooler or hotter based on how you're sleeping?

• 1:05:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  Um, I don't know if it's got that much feedback, but you can adjust it to your preferences. And it lowers your body temperature through the night and then warms up when you need to wake up. And there's even a vibration in there that wakes you up in the morning.

• 1:05:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that's pretty interesting. Eight Sleep. What else is coming? What do you think is good? Like, what are the crazy things that are gonna be happening in five, 10, 20 years? In terms of devices or technologies?

• 1:06:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, so when I wrote lifespan, this was two thousand, end of two thousand nineteen. I predicted a world where we wouldn't need to go to the doctor and we'd have these, these telemedicine things and they'd send the drugs in the mail. It's pretty funny, it's only two years later and that's the world already. So trying to predict the world ten, twenty years from now is really hard. It's going super fast and medicine is going faster than probably any other thing on the planet, with perhaps the exception of NFTs right now.

• 1:06:36Lewis Howes?

  Right, NFTs and crypto, right? Yeah, the metaverse.

• 1:06:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, all that's going crazy, but medicine is totally different. So as well from, you know, the iPhone isn't changing much these days, but what's the data coming into the iPhone, or I should say any phone, is what's gonna change.

• 1:06:51Lewis Howes?

  How will the metaverse and being in virtual reality affect us in aging or anti-aging? If we're in five, 10 years, let's say we're all hooked up to devices, staring into a world that we could never imagine in the real world through our devices, or working eight to 10 hours a day in these devices, playing games, watching movies, hanging out with friends in the virtual world. What do you think would happen to our bodies, our minds, our eyes? And the longevity of our genes by being hooked up on this device?

• 1:07:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  This is what my next book is about, the world that we built and the pluses and minuses and how the heck do we get out of this mess we've created over the last million years? And so I've thought about this, there are pluses and minuses to the metaverse. The pluses are the following, that if you have friends or a pet, it's known that that's gonna make you live longer. Actually, the strongest effect, there was a study done at Harvard of men who after, it was the first world war, I believe, they tracked their whole lives and then found out what made them live the longest. And some of it was food, some of it was exercise, but the biggest effect was having a reliable partner. So there you go, or get a pet if you don't have a human partner.

• 1:08:15Lewis Howes?

  Friends, a healthy partner and pets.

• 1:08:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Lewis Howes?

  Will help you live longer.

• 1:08:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, and the metaverse could help there.

• 1:08:23Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:08:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  You could have lots of friends there.

• 1:08:25Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:08:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's the upside, I would imagine you could also be doing meditation and relaxation in there. The downsides, there are a number. So I have a fourteen year old son, Benjamin.

• 1:08:36Lewis Howes?

  Is he in the metaverse, is he in?

• 1:08:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  He's got a virtual headset, he's got a couple of virtual head, uh, reality headsets. And if he's not in virtual reality, he's got.

• 1:08:45Lewis Howes?

  Screens.

• 1:08:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Screens, yeah. So that, that's not gonna make you live longer. I mean, your brain will stay active, there's some brain benefits, but mostly it's bad, poor sleep from all the blue light coming in at night. Um, and mostly, honestly, it's, it's a lack of exercise.

• 1:09:00Lewis Howes?

  Right. Well, now they're trying to do, you see all the boxing videos of people wearing like the goggles and then they're like boxing in there? I guess if you're moving and you're doing something where you're moving, that's good, but the light constantly is probably still not good for you, right?

• 1:09:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, right. Now, there are some move, I mean, the virtual reality, there's a little bit of movement.

• 1:09:17Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:09:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  Lights, lightsabers and whatever, but for the most part, if I look at my son, for example, he's not getting enough exercise like a normal kid who's outside. You know, I was, I was talking to my brother about this the other day that we used to, and you're probably the same, we used to get scratched up and we always have bruises.

• 1:09:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:09:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Kids these days, they rarely get a bruise.

• 1:09:36Lewis Howes?

  Too safe.

• 1:09:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:37Lewis Howes?

  You get a bruise hitting their head on something when they're in the virtual reality world.

• 1:09:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  But grazes and scratches and dirt on their knees.

• 1:09:43Lewis Howes?

  No, you never see that. They're too clean, right?

• 1:09:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Lewis Howes?

  They never get scuffed up. So ima- imagine someone's in this, let's say, eight hours a day, cause I think in the future, well, based on what I'm seeing Facebook wants is people working in the metaverse in the future is what I saw in his kind of like videos. It's like, once you're in here, you'll be able to work, you do all these things.

• 1:10:05Lewis Howes?

  If someone's on goggles eight hours a day, would that make them live longer or less, do you think? Even if they're moving in the goggles and all these other things, do you think they could extend their life?

• 1:10:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  No. I think that the the downsides don't outweigh the benefits, unfortunately. I think most, just moving uh, in the three D world is extremely beneficial. Um, interacting with people in three D.

• 1:10:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Physically moving, I mean, unless you're on a treadmill with your virtual headset, which I don't think people are gonna wanna do. You're not getting enough exercise.

• 1:10:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:10:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, lifting weights is very important. Do yoga if that's not your thing, all that good stuff. And socializing with meals and whatever. That's real life. That, these are real benefits to longevity. Uh, you know, Mark Zuckerberg, I'm, I'm afraid I'm just telling you my thoughts.

• 1:10:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, maybe everything in moderation. Maybe you get on there for an hour a day and that's not gonna hurt you.

• 1:11:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's true.

• 1:11:03Lewis Howes?

  But if you're on eight hours a day, I'm hearing you say, that's, that's probably not gonna benefit you in living longer and healthier.

• 1:11:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  I think it's just gonna make the obesity epidemic worse.

• 1:11:14Lewis Howes?

  Cause it's just more sugar, more, you know, sodas, more bad food, quick stuff to get calories in while you're in goggle land, I guess.

• 1:11:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it's, it's a lot like the ending to Wally, the Disney movie, um, the Pixar movie, yeah. Just sitting around with eating. And I see this with Benjamin, that, I mean, if he has a choice, he'll be on, on a game all day.

• 1:11:38Lewis Howes?

  Eating sugar.

• 1:11:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Eating and drinking, yeah.

• 1:11:40Lewis Howes?

  Without moving, yeah.

• 1:11:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right.

• 1:11:42Lewis Howes?

  So how do you discipline your kids? And how can parents discipline, not discipline, but educate, inspire? And create structure around kids today? So that their twenty-five, forty-five-year-old selves will thank you, the parents? For setting them up as opposed to them having health challenges in their twenties, thirties and forties? Because of sitting in front of screens all day and eating sugar all day.

• 1:12:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Well, that, that's a really important point is that, I think a lot of parents don't think about this, but it's, it's, it's super important to know this. Is that the way you raise your kids? Terms of, um, not just socially, but what they eat, how much they eat when they, of course, they need a lot more food than someone my age. For their growth and everything, and you need to make sure nutrition is all there. But if, if you allow your kid to become really obese and not exercise? That's gonna affect them thirty, forty, fifty years later, cause that clock is ticking from conception, alright? So you gotta look after your kids and the kind of things that we talked about, the kind of foods that are healthy. Um, certainly meat is fine for kids. I'm I'm not saying that, but but focus on um

• 1:12:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  le- less per meal if it's a big fatty fried meal.

• 1:13:00Lewis Howes?

  That's not good.

• 1:13:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, I mean, once in a while, you gotta live, but but most kids will thrive on fresh food. Uh, homemade food, if you've got the time and money to do that, um, for sure. Uh, get them out of the chair. But the the one big thing that I've been quite militaristic about with my kids, much to their chagrin, um, is sugar.

• 1:13:20Lewis Howes?

  Cause they want it all the time.

• 1:13:22Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it feels good. It tastes good. Um, but there are there are brands of sodas that don't have uh, any uh unnatural sweeteners.

• 1:13:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Dr. David Sinclair?

  Or or just stevia.

• 1:13:31Lewis Howes?

  What's the Ollie Pop or something?

• 1:13:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Ollie Pop is the one that I.

• 1:13:34Lewis Howes?

  I've been drinking that recently. I really liked that.

• 1:13:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:37Lewis Howes?

  Like, it doesn't taste that good when I first had it, but the more you drink it, I'm like, this tastes great.

• 1:13:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Even like the grape one is great. Yeah, I know. So, yeah, that's the kind of thing. Ollie Pop for kids.

• 1:13:46Lewis Howes?

  Which is what? A way less sugar and it's like got probiotics or something or?

• 1:13:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  It does. And the the sugar that's in there is low glycemic index, doesn't spike it, and it's all natural, yeah.

• 1:13:56Lewis Howes?

  Have you tested it with the levels and making sure that it doesn't spike too much for you?

• 1:14:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  I have.

• 1:14:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and it seems like it's not too bad.

• 1:14:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  It didn't change it at all. Yeah, I was really impressed.

• 1:14:05Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:14:06Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so that's what my kids drink now.

• 1:14:08Lewis Howes?

  That's, look at you. I like that. I wanted to ask you, I asked you beforehand about what you think would be, uh, make this powerful. You mentioned what your greatest fears are. So with all the research you've done, all the science you've done, what are the things that bring you the most hope and also what has caused the most fear or created the most fear inside of you?

• 1:14:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so I, as a, as a kid and to this day, I've often looked at humanity from above, as though I'm an alien observing us and judging us and my grandmother taught me to do that. She said that humanity is capable of great things, but very horrible things too. And she lived through World War Two and the aftermath in in Europe and Hungary. And so I like to look at us as a species that's capable of very horrible things. And we know that from history, but amazing things. I believe any problem is solvable, any, if we just work on it. That the fact that we've built these phones and the internet and all that, I mean, how amazing is that? It's magical.

• 1:15:14Lewis Howes?

  Incredible.

• 1:15:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  We don't stop to think of it much. I'm gonna fly home.

• 1:15:19Lewis Howes?

  Hundred years ago, you'd been like, it had been the craziest thing to see something flying.

• 1:15:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, and now we expect Wi-Fi.

• 1:15:27Lewis Howes?

  This is unbelievable, right, yeah.

• 1:15:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  So humanity's fantastic, and I want to, I do want to stick around to see where we go from here.

• 1:15:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, now you can FaceTime someone in seconds, and twenty years ago, we couldn't do that.

• 1:15:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, where are the video phones? Oh, here they are.

• 1:15:40Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, isn't it?

• 1:15:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  It is great. But my fear is that humanity's not gonna reach its potential. And then, to some extent, that I'm not gonna reach my potential. So I have a fear of being irrelevant and to have wasted my life.

• 1:15:57Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:15:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's like I've been given this chance to bend the needle of humanity towards good, not bad. And I have this finite number of years, hopefully not, maybe a little longer than I thought, but it will be finite.

• 1:16:09Lewis Howes?

  What would make you the most proud of your self? If you reach what potential? If you solve what problem? If you help in what way? Let's say you live to as long as you want to live. You extend life as long as it'll take you while being sharp and functional and healthy, not just suffering and extending the suffering. What would be the thing where you look back and say, man, I did exactly what I felt like my potential was?

• 1:16:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I have three great kids, so that's, that for me is one type of immortality.

• 1:16:43Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:16:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  But for myself, what I'd like to leave behind is... Proof that you can make medicines that slow or reverse. The aging process and that that's the best way to address diseases. Because I believe aging itself is a medical condition. We just ignore it because it's so common. But it should be treatable aggressively and we should be working on it way more than we are right now.

• 1:17:05Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So creating technologies and medicines to solve that.

• 1:17:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. Hopefully saving millions of lives, that would be one thing that I'm hoping to achieve in my lifetime. But what I'm also doing, and the reason that I'm here and I've written, I'm writing books and I have a podcast, is that I need help. I can't just do this all by myself. And so I'm educating what to do in your life today and what kind of research we need and where to spend your research dollars or donations if you want to help. And change the way people think about medicine. So when they go to their doctor and the doctor says, oh, we don't need to give you that medicine because it's for someone who's sick. They can say, well, why not give it to me before I get sick?

• 1:17:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:17:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  So there's a drug called metformin, which is for type 2 diabetes, high blood sugar, that looks promising as an anti-aging drug. It protects against cancer and heart disease and frailty and Alzheimer's even. But doctors most are reticent to give it to people who are not sick yet because it's approved only to treat a disease. But aging isn't a disease, so doctors can't treat it yet. So if aging becomes a disease, then that's another thing that I'll die happy knowing.

• 1:18:17Lewis Howes?

  How do you make aging a disease?

• 1:18:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, the government has to regulate it and they have, they could do it tomorrow if they wanted to. The World Health Organization in two years ago, they have this handbook of diseases, about 400 diseases that we can all suffer from. It's great reading. But they changed it. There was an MG42 code that they put in called old age. And for the first time, the WHO said aging is a medical condition. And I rejoice, that's a first step. FDA needs to step up, let's do that. Recently, there were protests from doc- some doctors around the world saying old age cannot be a disease. So they changed it back.

• 1:18:59Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:19:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it's a real setback.

• 1:19:01Lewis Howes?

  Why are they wanting to change it, or why are they saying that? That old age is not a disease?

• 1:19:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, it's very common, and the definition of a disease is something that happens to less than fifty percent of people.

• 1:19:12Lewis Howes?

  And this happens to everyone, essentially, right?

• 1:19:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  If you're lucky, yeah.

• 1:19:16Lewis Howes?

  Aging, if you don't die before, yeah, earlier.

• 1:19:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, but the symptoms are the same. It causes deterioration, suffering, pain, can cause death.

• 1:19:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:19:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Why is that not a disease?

• 1:19:27Lewis Howes?

  Right. Because everyone, it happens to everyone, I guess, right?

• 1:19:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  So what?

• 1:19:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:19:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Then we should be working on it even more.

• 1:19:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Than other rare diseases.

• 1:19:37Lewis Howes?

  Why, when you were a kid, did this become such a fascinating thing for you to become, you know, driven to be a top scientist in the world, to be at Harvard, to be, you know, doing this type of research? Why have you been driven your whole life? Or has it not been your whole life? Has it been more in your younger adulthood?

• 1:19:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  I was quite a precocious little kid. My grandmother raised me in part.

• 1:20:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  My father was taken away from my grandmother because she was fifteen in high school. And so she didn't have a kid to raise. Then I came along, her first grandkid. And she put a lot of energy, and she, she was a philosopher and, and artist and just instilled in me all of these things that I've been telling you, including make every day count. So from an early age, not only did I try to make every day count, I was told by my grandmother that I could do it. So if you're a parent, trust me, if you give your kids positive feedback, it'll have a big difference. Because they can actually believe it. I truly believed I could change the world, you know, and-

• 1:20:43Lewis Howes?

  And how was that, what did that belief do for you?

• 1:20:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  It gave me the-

• 1:20:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  The courage to attempt it and to believe in myself. And if I look back at my life, it was crazy to think that I'd be here today with you.

• 1:21:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:21:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  I was a kid in the suburbs of Sydney who, you know, you wouldn't have looked at me and said, you know, that I was anything special. I was okay at science, but I wasn't a good speaker. I wasn't outgoing. I was pretty shy. And so to get here is quite something. I've had to change my personality. I've had to become smarter and focused and much more resilient, less shy as well. But I think I've done that because I believed that I could do it.

• 1:21:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:31Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the fear of failing was way worse than trying it and not succeed.

• 1:21:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  So that, I mean, the fear of not attempting it is the problem. I would rather die with no regrets and having failed. But I'll take on big things, but because they're big things, I do worry that they might fail. Okay, so it's this dichotomy of these overachievers that, wow, I'm going to build a company or I'm going to get a job at Harvard. And then I get a company and I get a job at Harvard. It's like, oh crap, now what?

• 1:22:05Lewis Howes?

  Now what? Yeah.

• 1:22:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so that's what gets me out of the bed in the morning, but also the knowledge that as I've gone in my career, I have a greater chance of actually making a difference. I'm now, what am I, fifty two? I'm in a position that I really could only dream of having, of being able to talk to the world and make discoveries that can impact the world and make medicines, hopefully, that can save millions of lives. So that drives me now is that every moment that's wasted, every day that I don't succeed, another hundred thousand people die.

• 1:22:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow, because what, is a hundred fifty to a hundred eighty thousand people die every day? Is that the stat in the world?

• 1:22:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  From old age, yeah.

• 1:22:42Lewis Howes?

  From old, a hundred thousand a day from old age?

• 1:22:44Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, roughly, yeah.

• 1:22:45Lewis Howes?

  Because I think it's more. It's more, yeah. I think I saw a hundred fifty thousand on average die every day in the world. I don't know if that's from all causes or what, but. That's fascinating. What, um, you talked about your grandmother giving you, instilling you the ability or the belief that you can really accomplish what you want to accomplish. What do you think instilling negativity or negative belief or doubt in someone does for their aging? Does it accelerate the aging process when we have negative thoughts or someone puts that in us? Or does that give us any benefit of all of living longer with negative thoughts in our mind?

• 1:23:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so I don't know of any research on that.

• 1:23:28Lewis Howes?

  That'd be interesting.

• 1:23:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  It, it sure would. The power of the mind is strong and I'm saying that as a scientist, not just because it's a lot of people say it. It's been shown that, that parts of the brain control our longevity. There's a particular part of it that hangs down the base of our spine of our brain called the hypothalamus, uh, which is secreting a whole bunch of molecules into the bloodstream, some of which control our immune system, but also our age. And so again, we use mice to test this because we can manipulate them better. And if you decrease inflammation in this hypothalamus, the mice will secrete less of a molecule that causes aging and then the mice live longer.

• 1:24:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:24:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  So I think that your mental attitude, um, being more resilient, don't worry so much, don't have chronic stress, have some confidence could have remarkable benefits on your long-term health.

• 1:24:23Lewis Howes?

  Because that's where the part of the brain that, that connects to this, is that what you're saying?

• 1:24:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it's the drip feeder for hormones and chemicals from your brain. So what you think controls your body largely through that. There's some other nerves, like there's a vagus nerve as well, but.

• 1:24:38Lewis Howes?

  So this is science too, that your thoughts impact your immune system or inflammation or certain areas of the body that also make you age.

• 1:24:48Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, right. And that, that's true. And there was a study just two weeks ago, again in mice, but usually these things are applicable, that they manipulated some nerves in the middle of the brain that were, are known to be affected by stress. And they started to find more immune cell defenses in the gut of those mice controlled by these nerve cells in the brain.

• 1:25:10Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 1:25:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, if you're under a lot of chronic stress and you know, people say, oh, my immune system is depressed. I used to think, yeah, right. How's that possible? Now we know that it could be possible.

• 1:25:21Lewis Howes?

  So the more stress you have. Potentially the weaker immune system.

• 1:25:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, through that your brain actually reducing the amount of immune cells going around your body.

• 1:25:33Lewis Howes?

  What do you do to eliminate stress or remove? Because obviously, a certain amount of stress is good for the body, right? Not eating all the time, moving your body, you know, tearing the muscles in a healthy way, resistance, like having the courageous conversations to apologize or clear, you know, whatever things are happening in relationships, like there's a certain amount of stress that's healthy. But how do you manage the unhealthy type of stress?

• 1:26:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I was a stressed out kid, so I've had to work at it. Everything worried me.

• 1:26:10Lewis Howes?

  You had to change your personality.

• 1:26:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  I did, I did. I had to take the long view of life and not worry so much about what's happening today and think about, is this really going to be a problem a year or two or 10 years from now that helps a lot?

• 1:26:23Lewis Howes?

  Perspective.

• 1:26:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  Perspective is good, breathing. Jim Nestor does.

• 1:26:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, he's great.

• 1:26:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  So there's breathing and very recently, though, I'm enjoying it a lot. Some meditation. Yeah, I have a brain tap helmet. Have you seen these? It helps me.

• 1:26:40Lewis Howes?

  You put the helmet on?

• 1:26:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  You do, and there's lights that flash at certain frequencies that are known to get your brain into a certain state.

• 1:26:48Lewis Howes?

  State of wave or whatever it's called. What's the helmet called?

• 1:26:51Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, it's called brain tap.

• 1:26:55Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, I'm sounding like a paid ad. But I do like their product and now. And so I'm not a professional or a long time meditator, but every night I do a minimum of about 12 minutes, sometimes half an hour. Find I can get by with less sleep as well.

• 1:27:11Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:27:13Lewis Howes?

  What's the pressure like being, you know, heading up this department at Harvard and and putting these research papers out there and writing these books and now podcasts and a YouTube channel? Putting your, you know, life's work out there while having Harvard on your, you know, next to your name, arguably one of the most credible institutions in the world. How, what's the pressure like and how do you manage that pressure?

• 1:27:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, that's really stressful. I I used to pull it. When I first got this job, I was only twenty nine. Wow. I think I was one or the youngest guy there. So biologically, a few years ago. Yeah, right. I've become a little wiser, but I was, I used to freak out. I'd pull into my car parking spot and sit in the car and think, David, what are you doing? You know, the imposter syndrome. How'd you get here at twenty nine? And how, not just my age, but I don't know how to run a lab. I'm at this prestigious university. They'd just given me half a million bucks to work with.

• 1:28:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Now what? Now that that's the fear of failure coming in. I've got what I wanted. Now what? Yeah. And so I've I've been fearful of failing, but but at Harvard, what I've done, so I've I've got, I got, I got an overdose of the F U gene. Yes. So the F U gene runs through my family. It's typically turned on in teenagers. But I've got a heavy dose of it, even as an adult. I don't like being told what to do. Um, you can talk to people around me who know. Uh, but what I I've liked to do at Harvard is to to push the envelope. People say that can't be done. And if you say that to me, that's kind of like, okay. Let's go. Come on, let's try that. And I pushed the envelope, sometimes a little too far. I've got my hand slapped over the years.

• 1:28:56Dr. David Sinclair?

  But in general, I've been slightly ahead of the curve. So ten years ago, if I had a podcast, even five, what are you doing? You're selling out. You're a salesperson. This is crazy. Now, you know, it's, it's, it's accepted and in fact, it's probably liked that the university has a spokesperson. Same with companies. I was starting companies in my early thirties. A lot of people, my elders were saying, my mentors were saying, you can't start companies. That's not what scientists do. You're contaminated with industry, less trustworthy. Uh, so I kept doing good science, thankfully. So that trust was maintained. But now at Harvard, probably one out of four professors has some sort of company affiliation.

• 1:29:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it's a pretty normal thing, but you do that twenty years ago. You were like kicked out or something, yeah. You, well, you're a pariah for sure. Um, and there's a lot of gossip at a place like that. Sure, sure. It's very clubby. Yeah. And I was the Aussie kid who probably didn't belong there, so. I'm still there, thankfully. Yes. I have, uh, what's known as tenure, which means as long as I don't do something really bad to embarrass.

• 1:30:04Lewis Howes?

  The university.

• 1:30:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  The university and the universe, uh, yeah. Uh, I get to keep my job as long as I keep money coming in.

• 1:30:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:30:11Dr. David Sinclair?

  So one of the other things I'm fearful of, like most scientists, is running out of money. Our labs exist on grants from the government and donors. And the university doesn't give us any, very little. It's a small amount of our salary, but other than that, I've got a few million bucks every year to raise to keep my experiments going.

• 1:30:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:30:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  And people who visit my lab, they they're shocked because they think I'm just rolling in money. But I could, you know, two years from now, I could be out of money and out of a job.

• 1:30:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:30:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  And that never ends. It's this treadmill of a scientist.

• 1:30:40Lewis Howes?

  Constantly, yeah, trying to to raise money, essentially. What, let's just hypothetical scenario. I don't really want anyone to put this out there, but hypothetically, let's say you could only

• 1:30:53Lewis Howes?

  solve one problem. You had 10 years to solve the impossible.

• 1:31:00Lewis Howes?

  And you put all of your energy and focus into solving this one problem that that bugs you the most. What would be the problem and what would you solve?

• 1:31:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's what I'm doing. In my lab, we we like to say, just ask good questions and then figure out the rest later. So my question is,

• 1:31:18Dr. David Sinclair?

  I think we figured out largely why we age. It's a lot of things going on I haven't talked about today, but I think we know that. But what I I want to know is, how how do you access the backup copy of usefulness in the cells that we have? And can that be done with a pill?

• 1:31:38Lewis Howes?

  One pill, yeah.

• 1:31:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  A simple question, big one.

• 1:31:42Lewis Howes?

  So that's what you're trying to figure out.

• 1:31:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's it. Yeah, and I've got 20 people in my lab working on it right now.

• 1:31:46Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing.

• 1:31:49Lewis Howes?

  And so why do we age? Is that what you're saying?

• 1:31:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  Why do we age?

• 1:31:52Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:31:53Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I believe it's the loss of information that we have as kids and that those bundles and loops of the DNA get messed up. And you can reset those. But there are lots of other downstream, we call it downstream causes, it's like a pyramid. And so the other causes, there are things like protein misfolding. The mitochondria, the energy packs start to decline. You lose your stem cells. You get zombie cells in the body called senescent cells, which we're learning to fix now in my lab. And DNA damage is another thing that drives the clock forward, we've discovered. So those mice that Get older, we actually just cut their chromosomes and then the clock advances. So those are the groups of what we call the hallmarks of aging that we can measure in you

• 1:32:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  and predict how old you are and when you're gonna die.

• 1:32:39Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 1:32:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  Including those methyl chemicals that we call the DNA methylation clock.

• 1:32:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:32:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:46Lewis Howes?

  So do you know when you're gonna die based on these markers?

• 1:32:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  I do.

• 1:32:50Lewis Howes?

  What's the age it says right now?

• 1:32:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  So right now, my age is tracking at, there's a number of tests, but I'm typically five to 10 years younger based on a variety of tests. So that gives me that amount of time at the end.

• 1:33:06Lewis Howes?

  What is that, so 78, is that the average age right now? So it'd be like 88, 90 or something, or what do you mean?

• 1:33:12Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, 88.

• 1:33:14Lewis Howes?

  88 right now?

• 1:33:14Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so that's like 2058.

• 1:33:17Lewis Howes?

  That's nuts to think about, isn't it?

• 1:33:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  That you have a dead date?

• 1:33:23Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 1:33:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  I think about that day a lot.

• 1:33:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:33:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  I actually set the year 2050 as my expiry date when I was a teenager and have been working ever since to get stuff done.

• 1:33:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, 2050 as your expiration date?

• 1:33:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:36Lewis Howes?

  And what is it now?

• 1:33:38Dr. David Sinclair?

  What year is it?

• 1:33:39Lewis Howes?

  No, I mean, what is the expiration date now?

• 1:33:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh, it's another eight to 10 years beyond that. But if we can reverse aging by one year every year, then all bets are off, right?

• 1:33:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:33:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  And we're learning how to do that.

• 1:33:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:33:54Lewis Howes?

  That's fascinating. How often do you think about your death?

• 1:33:58Dr. David Sinclair?

  Many times a day.

• 1:33:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:34:01Lewis Howes?

  What does that do for you when you think about it?

• 1:34:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  It makes me wanna work harder and get stuff done and call people I love and tell them that I love them.

• 1:34:08Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:34:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  I think everybody should be aware of their own death. I watched my mother die in front of me, it wasn't pretty.

• 1:34:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I think that's what a lot of us are gonna experience, we're just doing denial. And until you're probably in your 60s and 70s, you can kind of forget about it. You're healthy, you don't have to worry about it. But I haven't been able to get that thought out of my mind.

• 1:34:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:34:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Having an expiry date and a certain amount of time to achieve things.

• 1:34:32Lewis Howes?

  And when did your mom pass?

• 1:34:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  Oh gee, two thousand fourteen.

• 1:34:37Lewis Howes?

  Okay, and it was smoking was the main cause, well, old age is the the cause, I guess, of everyone's death, but smoking was what accelerated it?

• 1:34:45Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, accelerated the clock and then some cell in her lung became, lost its identity, went back to age zero, started growing, uh, became a tumor about the size of a grapefruit.

• 1:34:56Lewis Howes?

  Oh, in the lungs.

• 1:34:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  In one of her lungs.

• 1:34:58Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:34:59Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, she was coughing up blood, uh, that was the first she knew about it.

• 1:35:03Lewis Howes?

  When she coughed up blood?

• 1:35:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yep, uh, they took out one lung.

• 1:35:07Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:35:07Dr. David Sinclair?

  That's, that's vicious surgery, uh, and then, uh, and then suffered, uh, through, uh, lack of breath for another twenty years.

• 1:35:16Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:35:16Dr. David Sinclair?

  And, uh, but it was, it was more painful for her, but, but it was psychologically painful for me because I was so against the smoking that just every day a fight with my mother about, don't smoke, you're gonna kill yourself, you're gonna get cancer, I was hiding her cigarettes, trying to save her life. Cause I, you know, I like to save lives, that's what I do.

• 1:35:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:36Dr. David Sinclair?

  And the fact that I couldn't save my mom's life, still pretty harsh thought, as you can tell from my face right now.

• 1:35:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So she, did she keep smoking after the surgery too?

• 1:35:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  No.

• 1:35:47Lewis Howes?

  She stopped?

• 1:35:49Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right, having a lung taken out is a pretty good way to stop smoking, but she did stop, right? Um, she was in a lot of pain for many years, it's quite, cause they have to cut through your, your ribs to get the lungs out.

• 1:36:00Lewis Howes?

  Gosh.

• 1:36:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, it's not good, but, um, I mean, in the end, the other lung gave out, was slow, progressive and she would struggle for air at night when she was asleep and even with oxygen, couldn't get enough and, you know, suffocating is not pleasant. So she spent many years suffocating slowly.

• 1:36:16Lewis Howes?

  That's exhausting.

• 1:36:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  And eventually that's how she went.

• 1:36:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, so if you smoke, please quit, please, it's, it's not worth it. I know it's hard, the addiction is really hard for a lot of people.

• 1:36:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:28Dr. David Sinclair?

  But I've seen what it can do, it's just really, really tragic.

• 1:36:33Lewis Howes?

  What is the best way to die?

• 1:36:35Dr. David Sinclair?

  In your sleep.

• 1:36:38Lewis Howes?

  Peacefully.

• 1:36:39Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't think it happens that often, though.

• 1:36:40Lewis Howes?

  Does it ever happen?

• 1:36:41Dr. David Sinclair?

  Rarely, yeah. It's, uh.

• 1:36:46Dr. David Sinclair?

  Uh, I was just talking with, uh, Tom Bellew the other day and he, he saw somebody die. Actually, somebody had a stroke at one of his events in his forties and there was nothing he could do.

• 1:36:58Lewis Howes?

  He watched them just right in front of him die.

• 1:37:01Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. Yeah, and they were trying to revive him.

• 1:37:03Lewis Howes?

  Oh, they can't do anything.

• 1:37:05Dr. David Sinclair?

  No, no, his brain basically had popped.

• 1:37:08Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:37:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  But you, you realize, you know, this is a forty year old in his prime, uh, that you can die. We could, one of us could die this afternoon. We've got to live life like that.

• 1:37:19Lewis Howes?

  How, how does a stroke happen like that if you're healthy or seeming healthy? Is there some underlying condition?

• 1:37:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  There can be, yeah, there are some weak blood vessels in some people genetically. Uh, but being overweight and having high blood pressure.

• 1:37:33Lewis Howes?

  Is a big thing.

• 1:37:33Dr. David Sinclair?

  Make it a problem.

• 1:37:36Lewis Howes?

  What are three things we can do medically every year? Is it just check with the doctor once a year and do some tests? Or what would you say are three things, whether it be see a doctor, take this test every year to at least have like a baseline of understanding of the information about our bodies? You know, our blood work, I guess, what are those things we can do? That you were like, this is a bare minimum, do these three things.

• 1:38:00Dr. David Sinclair?

  Mm hmm, all right. Uh, so the, the, the best predictor of your long-term longevity that we know of is your blood sugar. Uh, and there's a, there's a readout called H B A one C, H B A one C.

• 1:38:16Lewis Howes?

  H B A one.

• 1:38:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  C.

• 1:38:19Lewis Howes?

  C, what is this?

• 1:38:20Dr. David Sinclair?

  Ask your doctor.

• 1:38:21Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:38:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  It's the amount of glucose that's become fused, attached to your hemoglobin. And when you've got high blood sugar, it attaches to a lot of proteins in your body. You become caramelized and hemoglobin, you can measure in a blood test. And H B stands for hemoglobin and A one C is the, the version that's got sugar on it. And doctors measure this routinely, uh, for diabetics, but they don't measure it routinely for regular people. But you want to make sure, and the reason you want to measure H B A one C rather than just your fasting blood glucose, which is. Quite variable is the HbA1c, it's a snapshot of a month because your hemoglobin gets turned over every few months. So it's like an average of a month.

• 1:39:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  Now, you can do it with a monitor from levels if you want, but if you don't have that, then this HbA1c number gives you an idea. So if you're around five or lower, you're super young and healthy. If you're in the mid-range up to about seven, you're prediabetic and above that, you're type 2 diabetic.

• 1:39:24Lewis Howes?

  So having this information every year is important.

• 1:39:26Dr. David Sinclair?

  It is, and not just every, every year, you can do it more often.

• 1:39:31Lewis Howes?

  Every month, every week.

• 1:39:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I do it every few months, inside trackers, I get it through them and I'm, I'm seeing things go up and as they go up, I bring them down.

• 1:39:39Lewis Howes?

  You make adjustments.

• 1:39:40Dr. David Sinclair?

  I do. Yeah, I mean, that's the point of having this data. Otherwise you get sick and you, it's too late.

• 1:39:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So, so having the information about this is a huge thing you can do a few times a year.

• 1:39:52Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right. And there's another one that I'd measure for heart disease, which is called HS, little HS, and then capital C, capital R, capital P.

• 1:40:01Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:40:02Dr. David Sinclair?

  High sensitivity CRP. So this C reactive protein is a good measure of cardiovascular inflammation and you want that to be low.

• 1:40:14Lewis Howes?

  How low do you want it to be?

• 1:40:17Dr. David Sinclair?

  I forget the units.

• 1:40:18Lewis Howes?

  Okay, but you just want it to be low.

• 1:40:19Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah. And then there's a, there's a new type of cholesterol, not new, but new to the mainstream called LP little A. It's a little, a capital L, little P, and then in parentheses, A. And that is the, the new measure of cholesterol. That genetic variance of that, if you have a lot of it and it's a little particle, a really small particle, then it'll oxidize and that's what likely predicts your heart attack of the future. But most doctors either don't know about it or don't measure it routinely. LP little A, talk to your doctor.

• 1:40:57Lewis Howes?

  And what are the three supplements we should be taking on a, on a consistent basis?

• 1:41:03Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I don't recommend anything. I'm just a PhD.

• 1:41:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay. What are three things that you want to take consistently?

• 1:41:09Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yeah, if I could only take three, I would take resveratrol. I'd take a gram with a bit of yogurt. NMN, we haven't talked about NMN, and then metformin.

• 1:41:21Lewis Howes?

  NMN?

• 1:41:23Dr. David Sinclair?

  Yep.

• 1:41:23Lewis Howes?

  The supplement?

• 1:41:24Dr. David Sinclair?

  It is.

• 1:41:25Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:41:27Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't sell any supplements, by the way.

• 1:41:29Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 1:41:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  I'm not making any money.

• 1:41:30Lewis Howes?

  But you would take these, yes?

• 1:41:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  I would, I would, because our research has said that that's what works. In animals, at least, in some clinical trials. We've done plenty of studies and others in resveratrol, long-term benefits. I've been on it for 13 years. Activates the genetic pathways we've worked on, controls the epigenome.

• 1:41:48Lewis Howes?

  Yep, NMN?

• 1:41:50Dr. David Sinclair?

  NMN also activates the same epigenetic structures.

• 1:41:54Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:41:54Dr. David Sinclair?

  Makes them stay young, we think.

• 1:41:56Lewis Howes?

  And the third one again?

• 1:41:57Dr. David Sinclair?

  Metformin. This is the type 2 diabetes drug that controls blood sugar.

• 1:42:02Lewis Howes?

  That doctors aren't able to give out right now?

• 1:42:04Dr. David Sinclair?

  They're reticent, but they can if they want to.

• 1:42:06Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, interesting.

• 1:42:08Dr. David Sinclair?

  I believe there's a website online, check that out.

• 1:42:12Lewis Howes?

  What's it called?

• 1:42:13Dr. David Sinclair?

  I don't remember.

• 1:42:14Lewis Howes?

  Okay, but Google this.

• 1:42:15Dr. David Sinclair?

  You could Google it, you'd see it.

• 1:42:16Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, but these are the three things you would take daily if you could only take these?

• 1:42:21Dr. David Sinclair?

  Right now, I mean, I've got some other things in the hopper that I'm trying.

• 1:42:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:42:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  The alpha-heatagluterate might be promising, the age reversal one, if I see if that's got merit.

• 1:42:31Lewis Howes?

  You're trying all these?

• 1:42:32Dr. David Sinclair?

  Well, I add them one at a time or two at a time, and then I measure. It's all scientific.

• 1:42:37Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:42:37Dr. David Sinclair?

  And so I've optimized myself. You can actually, I've got graphs where you see a 20-year-old's numbers, on average, a male, and an 80-year-old's numbers, and where am I? You know, I'm trying to be down here. And mostly, so far, so far, so good.

• 1:42:53Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I've only got a couple of minutes left with you. We'll have to have you come back on and do more on this, because I have a ton more questions that we didn't get to, but you have an amazing new podcast that Rob finally convinced you to launch, Lifespan. It's also on Spotify, Apple, Audio, Lifespan, and also YouTube, which is...

• 1:43:15Lewis Howes?

  Inspiring that you're on YouTube as well and you've already blown up on there. So make sure we subscribe to you David Sinclair. All of our social media, David Sinclair PhD. Lifespan, the podcast Lifespan and David Sinclair on YouTube. Make sure you guys subscribe if you want more science, research. And to look at this beautiful man's face in front of you all the time on YouTube. But really you're breaking down the science and teaching all this stuff in way more in depth. If you want the whiteboard in your face, you'll get that more with the YouTube videos as well. And you're making science more simplified for people like me to understand. Where I think it's extremely important for us.

• 1:44:00Lewis Howes?

  So I really acknowledge you David for constantly making this your mission. To serve people, to help people live longer, to help people eliminate diseases, things that cause suffering and pain. Because we don't have all the information out there yet. And a lot of it is mixed information, people saying all these different things. So for you to be committed to doing the science and now teaching it more and more to the masses. I really acknowledge you and appreciate your energy, your effort in doing this. And look forward to having you back on many, many times in the future.

• 1:44:32Lewis Howes?

  I'll ask you one final question. We've asked you this a couple of times before. It's called the three truths.

• 1:44:39Lewis Howes?

  So I'm curious to see if this is different than the last time I had you on.

• 1:44:42Dr. David Sinclair?

  And I don't remember what I said.

• 1:44:43Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. So imagine it's your last day on earth and for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you. All of your content, your work, your books, your videos, podcasts, research. It's got to go with you to the next place. We don't have access to it anymore, hypothetical. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world or three things you know to be true. From all of your life experiences, your work, your relationships, anything at all. What would those three truths be?

• 1:45:10Dr. David Sinclair?

  Number one would be. Find your soulmate. And don't, don't rush it. Your partner will determine your happiness more than anything.

• 1:45:25Dr. David Sinclair?

  Second would be.

• 1:45:29Dr. David Sinclair?

  Make every day count. Act as though it's your last day on earth. Work hard, make great decisions, and tell those you love that you love them.

• 1:45:43Dr. David Sinclair?

  And then third,

• 1:45:47Dr. David Sinclair?

  look after your future self because you will be that person one day.

• 1:45:51Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.