Building Wealth, Overcoming Failure & Rethinking Risk Taking w/ Sukhinder Singh Cassidy EP 1150

Today's guest is Sukhinder Singh Cassidy. For more than 25 years, she’s been a leading tech entrepreneur and CEO who’s grown, scaled, and advised for companies like StubHub, Google, Amazon, and more. She’s currently the Founder and Chairman of theBoardlist, a talent marketplace focused on putting diverse leaders into key executive positions -- and also serves on the board of directors at Urban Outfitters and Upstart. She just wrote a new book called, Choose Possibility: Take Risks and Thrive (Even When You Fail), where she shares the most valuable lessons she’s learned over her years of experience in leadership roles at some of Silicon Valley’s most well-known companies. In this episode Lewis and Sukhinder discuss the life-changing lessons Sukhinder learned from her father, why most businesses fail and how to make sure your business isn’t one of them, why we all need to change our mindset around failure & risk taking, and what to do instead, the best ways to start building wealth today, what Sukhinder considers the most rewarding experiences she’s had over the course of her career, and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1150Check out The Boardlist: site.theboardlist.comThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,150 with Sukhinder Singh Cassidy. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:27Lewis Howes?

  T S Eliot said, "Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." And Jim Rohn said, "It doesn't matter which side of the fence you get off on sometimes. What matters most is getting off. You cannot make progress without making decisions." My guest today is Sukhinder Singh Cassidy, and for more than 25 years, she's been a leading tech entrepreneur and CEO who's grown, scaled, and advised for companies like StubHub, Google, Amazon, and more. And she's currently the founder and chairman of The Board List, a talent marketplace focused on putting diverse leaders into key executive positions, and also serves on the board of directors at Urban Outfitters and Upstart.

• 1:12Lewis Howes?

  And she just wrote a new book called Choose Possibility: Take Risks and Thrive Even When You Fail, where she shares the most valuable lessons she's learned over her years of experience in leadership roles at some of Silicon Valley's most well-known companies. And her insight when it comes to business and life is something I hope you find as much value in as I did. And it was a real treat getting to speak with her, and I'm already looking forward to connecting with her again soon. And in this episode, we discuss the life-changing lessons she learned from her father, why most businesses fail, and how to make sure your business isn't one of them. Why we all need to change our mindset around failure and risk-taking, and what to do instead. The best ways to start building wealth today.

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  What Sukhinder considers the most rewarding experiences she's had over the course of her career, and so much more. Again, I'm so excited about this, and if you're enjoying this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired as well. And a quick reminder to subscribe to the School of Greatness as well as giving us A rating and review and I wanted to take a quick moment to share one of my favorite reviews from last week and this is from Michael who's from the Philippines who says I just wanted to take a moment and say thank you so much for creating an impactful podcast. I believe that we all have a voice that deserves to be heard. Thank you for putting this into the world. And this is from Andrea who's from Croatia and she says, love listening to this podcast. Whenever I listen to an episode, it's like you're talking to me and even though you don't see your

• 2:37Lewis Howes?

  listeners, you talk to them individually. So thank you for inspiring me to do great things. So big shout out to those fans of the week. And again, if you want to leave a review and have a chance to be shouted out on the podcast, make sure to go to Apple Podcast right now and leave a review. Okay. In just a moment, the one and only Sue Kinder Singh Cassidy.

• 2:59Lewis Howes?

  What would make this the most powerful interview you've ever done?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  That's a really hard question. I'm thinking about the answer and very rarely do I say don't have an answer. I could say candor, we're gonna have candor. I could say engagement, we're gonna have engagement. I'm trying to think about like what message, maybe the most powerful thing would be like, the whole reason I wrote the book is not for money, right? It's to land the idea that people have just a total misconception about how risk and reward work. So like, maybe if you and I landed an interview that sort of like brings that home, that kind of singular message and people take it, maybe, I don't know, it's a really high bar. What would make it, what, like you've done 1100 plus interviews. What would make this a home run for you? Let's ask that question. It's probably the same challenge.

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  That we, we go deep on things that maybe we wouldn't necessarily go deep on, that we get vulnerable, that we reveal things, both of us, that, that connect to people's hearts. That would get out of our heads.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 4:00Lewis Howes?

  And tap into the soul.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Okay. If you want to tap into the soul, you have to ask me about my father.

• 4:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  If you want to go like straight there.

• 4:09Lewis Howes?

  I'm watching stuff about your dad, yeah, yeah.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like because, because I think like the book is a business book that has an undercurrent of how I was raised, but if you flipped it, I would say like, See the Soul is more my book than...

• 4:21Lewis Howes?

  I just had Gary, or Gary.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Gary Zuckoff, I know.

• 4:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, he's great.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  So if you think about the messages in See the Soul, I remember I went to an event that Sheryl Sandberg hosted with Oprah at our house back in the valley when she used to do these events that were like 25 women, and Oprah came, and Oprah was talking about Gary Zuckoff's book. And that was the first time I heard of it, you know, she was talking, and so I read See the Soul, and I just remember reading it, and I was like, wow, like this book, this is like the way I was raised. So if you like, so if you want to talk about soulful stuff, like, that's the stuff I talk about with my coach and my, you know...

• 4:53Lewis Howes?

  That's what's going to move my audience. The analytical, heady stuff, they're going to be, they don't come here for that.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Then let's talk about the soulful stuff, like how you live your life, because I am totally down for that conversation. So if you said like, what's the deepest we can get, the deepest we can get is like, why are we all here? What are the experiences you have that like convince you that there's something where like, or something like, and for me, just to be clear, now you're going to get me, Terry, like, I fundamentally believe that the way, reason I'm on, like, the way I'm going to express all my gifts or impact on the world is through business, 100%, 100%. And my father definitely saw that in me. He was like, that will be the way. And he was the most religious, spiritual person I knew, know, and also impactful, and also the most entrepreneurial. So like, I just look at it, I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's the standard. So if you read my book, you'd

• 5:41Speaker 01

  be like, I don't, I don't like, they're like, oh my, you know, my, my hero was Richard Branson, or like, of course, like, of course I admire all these, you know, but I'm like, no, here's my dad, like, his life and his purpose and his vocation and his impact, all the exact same thing.

• 5:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Right, completely integrated.

• 5:57Lewis Howes?

  That's cool, aligned.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Aligned, completely integrated and aligned.

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is not a conversation I have with most people. I have it with my coach, I have it with my priest, I have it with my mom. My mom read the book and she said, because I hadn't told her I wrote the book, I was like, you know, and I need to tell her. And then she was like, what are you so busy with? I said, Mom, I'm writing a book. I wrote a book, and I want to give it to her for Mother's Day, so I gave it to her. And she called me yesterday. And she's like, I finished the book. I thought, great. What do you think? And then she started sobbing.

• 6:26Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  And she said, I read the acknowledgements. I'm like, well, I'm like, hopefully you feel acknowledged. And she said, I also read the last chapter in the book, which is all about your father. And she just was like bawling her eyes out. And she's like, I, and she's like, you never talk about this stuff. But she's like, I, I, I read it and I think like, sorry, you can get me teary. I read, I read, I think like, you must think about him all the time. I'm like, all the time.

• 6:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And she said, and she said, she said, and then she was crying. She's like, you know, he was the love of my life. I told you he was a special person. And the whole world saw him as a special person. I was like, yeah, of course. I'm like, that last chapter is exactly what I believe. And I think about my dad all the time. And she said, and she said, like, she's just like, and she's like, like, it was beautiful. She's like, but I, it just made me remember how much I miss him. And I'm sorry. Anyway, so like, you want to get deep? That'll be deep.

• 7:13Lewis Howes?

  When you think about your dad, what do you think about?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  I think about the integration, as we talked about. I think about, and I write about it in the book. I think about the fact that like, most people move through this world, including all the people you and I know. And they really think that power is to be harnessed, right? Like, power is to be harnessed. And my dad, my dad, like, he just gave, like, I was, I call the concept in the book, power flow. Most people like, dream of being powerful. I'm like, my father was the most powerful person I know. I'm like, but it's because he has power, have power flow. He's like this abundant source of energy, right? So you bring it like, he could just give energy away to people. You know what I mean? He never said I, ever. Like, I say I all the time. He just never said I.

• 7:53Lewis Howes?

  What do you say?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  He would just be like, well, what do you want? Like, I just don't know how to describe it. He talked about like, he just helped people connect with their purpose and he made them feel really good. You know those people who are like, when you're with them, they make you, they're so present that they make you feel like you're, their time with you was like a gift to you. So my father was that person, right? You could have a conversation. And there was nobody who didn't leave a conversation with him, just totally energized. Like a hundred percent. Nobody would feel bad about themselves. They were just like, people said to me like, oh my God, you like, have so much energy. You make me feel anxious or nervous or like, whatever. Like, my dad just made everybody feel more full of themselves.

• 8:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Right? That was his gift. And so I call that power flow. I'm like, like, once you understand that like you like energy that you have is to be given away because you know it's a pretty abundant. If you can generate it for yourself, you can just keep giving energy to other people.

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Right? So that was his gift.

• 8:45Lewis Howes?

  Power flow.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  I call it power flow, not powerful.

• 8:48Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, so why you so like, why you all want to harness power? Like, people think you're powerful? I'm like, people would say my dad was the most powerful person they knew. He could give a about like, holding power.

• 9:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  I don't even think he would think about it that way. I'd just be like, you know, just like, keep flowing from him. And the more the flow from him, the more that would like, yeah, amass to him, right? But he didn't care about being powerful. I'm just saying that was his impact, right? If you can make other people impactful, like, think about that gift.

• 9:16Lewis Howes?

  What was the, or the three biggest lessons he taught you growing up?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Possibilities in small acts as well as big acts.

• 9:22Lewis Howes?

  Possibilities in small acts.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  As well as big acts. We tend to think of like, risk-taking and possibility is like, if you don't, can't do something big, don't do it at all, right? But what if possibility is like, you know, and I, for sure, he was an entrepreneur. So I think that you would say possibilities in little acts, like, it might be in doing your taxes. It might be in, you know, trying to come up with a creative name for your medical practice, which he did. It might be like, helping your daughter build like, you know, a working model of the human eye. Okay, there's in the second grade, which he did with me. So I just felt like he was always striving for possibility and little and big things. So like, possibility had all these dimensions, little and big, little, big, little, big.

• 9:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  As opposed to like, waiting for one big act, right? That was one big, a big.

• 10:04Lewis Howes?

  Lesson.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, one big lesson. Like, number two, probably, that we're all meant to express, I'm sort of like, like, you're here to give purpose and service to other people, right? So he would say like, what does that need to be? You know, he just like exemplified it. I don't know how to.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  It's his way of being.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  It's his way of being. Like, when somebody's.

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  He didn't say, he just wasn't.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he just wasn't. Like, you know, there's like conversations about these things, right? It's just like, you see this living embodiment of it. So I'd say that his second lesson was probably about just like, you're here to be of service and to have impact, right? So I think that's probably

• 10:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  second lesson. Be the third. Yeah, maybe the third is something much more simple. I mean, my parents just told me that like you think if you think it's all about you, you're totally mistaken, like, you know. It's not like quite destiny, but like, you know, you live in a universe that's far more powerful than you. And like, you think you're in control of everything, you're in control of nothing. So, and it's weird, right? Because you can say, how can you live with somebody who says, well, like, the whole universe is moving around you. If you think it's all about you, you're wildly mistaken. So my dad had this way of understanding that like we're small in a very big universe, yet still making you feel empowered, right? So that's an interesting lesson.

• 11:12Lewis Howes?

  You're insignificant, but you're significant.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Yes, you're insignificant, but everything is possible. You understand? Like, and so I understand both those things. I'm like, I can both say like, hey, I feel completely empowered, yet I realize like, if I think this act is all about me, like, that's a totally ridiculous statement. So that's why I feel like, I mean, I love leaders like that, right? They're very confident and yet they're very humble. Like, because I, and my father was that. Like, he was like, like the most confident, like grounded in himself person I could ever imagine, yet complete humility. Because he's just like, yeah, I'm like, I'm a speck on the back of a universe for a period of time. Yet, while you're here, do something useful. So both can be true, right? You can both be insignificant, yet while you're here, you're meant to do something totally, totally significant.

• 11:58Lewis Howes?

  Is there a conversation that you really repeat in your mind over and over that he either shared with you, whether it was an intentional conversation or something he said, you know, off the cuff that really resonates and sticks with you still?

• 12:12Speaker 01

  No, it's interesting. I honestly can say it's not a single conversation because, like I said, like, there were no lectures at our table. You know, it was like, it wasn't my dad was like, you must do this or whatever. Like, he would say it constantly, and I think, I think I'm very guilty of this. So, he would literally say like, why you ever begin sentences with it? Like, I, like, you know what I mean? Like, he wouldn't say that, he wasn't scolding me. He was just like, this just reminder that like, I do it all the time. We do it, like, I am so, you know what I mean? But, he was like, he just kind of had the absence of ego. So, no, I honestly, there was no big talk conversation. There was just no like seminal moment where he sat me down and told me these things. It was just like, it's just like, like just watching him be.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  But like, there's a story in the book that I tell that is very emblematic of my father. This is what I mean when I say, small acts of possibility for other people, right? So my dad was a doctor, he loved being a doctor. And

• 13:09Lewis Howes?

  What type of doctor?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  He was a general practitioner. But he also loved being an entrepreneur, like he loved both. And we had, and he grew up in Africa and immigrated to Canada late in his life. And so, one of his dear friends passed away, but his son was like my age, like a teenager, and came to stay with us for like one summer. He lived in England and came to stay with us. So we get, you know, family, friends, son comes to stay with us, we become close to him. This kid Bobby. And Bobby went on and became a surgeon.

• 13:39Lewis Howes?

  Your dad's son or your dad's friend's son?

• 13:41Speaker 01

  My dad's friend's son, just a friend of family, you know, so I got to know Bobby. And my dad's funeral, my, our, you can probably tell my dad was pretty religious. So our, the church we follow, believe it or not, is in England. So multiple times a year, we would go to England.

• 13:56Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and literally live in the church and do service like twice, twice a year. So like when other people went to Disneyland, I mean, like literally Christmas vacation.

• 14:04Lewis Howes?

  A week.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  And summer, we would go to England, live at this church, because my dad was like, not atheist, but agnostic, but then he had this like spiritual awakening in his, in his, in his, in his early 40s.

• 14:16Lewis Howes?

  So he, he didn't follow a specific religion, but he followed?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  No, we're Sikh. He followed, he was curious about all religions and believed generally in God.

• 14:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  But like, I mean, this is why I'm like, getting way deep here, somebody want to?

• 14:27Lewis Howes?

  No, this is great. This is fascinating.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  But, um.

• 14:29Lewis Howes?

  So he was interested in all religions?

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Interested in all religions, but Sikh, like in un-Sikh, you know, turbans, what have you. But I think sometime in his early 40s, before I was born, met a man who he, he became his physician, who was the head of a Sikh church. And he literally thought he met the embodiment of God. So like overnight, my mom says, like, he came home and he was a changed man. He stopped drinking, he stopped like gambling, he became like, he got baptized in the Sikh religion, and he began following this person.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  Before he wasn't Sikh though?

• 14:56Speaker 01

  He was Sikh, but he wasn't orthodox.

• 14:58Lewis Howes?

  He wasn't all in?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, he like, wasn't all in, like he was turban, he was cultural, he was Sikh. But you know, like loosely Sikh, you know, he didn't like, he didn't want to get baptized. It's like becoming the equivalent of like, you're Jewish and then you're orthodox Jewish, right? So, so he was generally interested in religion and curious about the world and all those things. But then he literally met a man who changed his life. And so, he became his physician, he started following him. My mom was like, like overnight, he just like. Became uninterested in all sorts of material things and became much more spiritual.

• 15:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow, what do you think that was that he saw?

• 15:29Speaker 01

  He literally.

• 15:29Lewis Howes?

  Or that he said to him that just woke him up?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  He literally said he felt like he, I mean, he was a, is a saintly person. He literally said like, I feel like I met, like, you know, met a saint.

• 15:39Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  And so that saint like founded a, like founded a specific Sikh church, you know, there's Sikhs all over the world. And in England, he moved from Africa to England and he has a church that has thousands of people. So my dad subscribed to that church. So we all did, we still do.

• 15:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  And so anyway, my point overall is that, um, you said, you said sort of, so well subscribed to this church, Bobby's dad was a, uh, you know, at this church. So my dad literally passed away in an airport in England because he had a heart attack.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  When our, it's okay, it's okay, it was 20 years ago.

• 16:11Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  When my.

• 16:12Lewis Howes?

  20 years ago.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was, he, like I said, he would go to the church two times a year, right? So even after we grew up, my dad and my mom.

• 16:18Lewis Howes?

  Was he on the way to the church?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  No, he was at the church, the church was, had rented a plane at Heathrow Airport. And like, they not rented a plane, they were all in the same plane flying to Kenya and Africa to do service.

• 16:28Lewis Howes?

  Service, yeah.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  To do service, like literally our church does service in India and Africa. So they were all flying to Africa together and my dad and my mom were going. And I was in my twenties and my dad was in the, in the airport and he had a heart attack.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Cause he was just like, tried to get to the gate too fast.

• 16:43Lewis Howes?

  At Heathrow?

• 16:44Speaker 01

  And he passed away, at Heathrow.

• 16:45Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  And passed away like in the airport. Anyway, but the benefit of that whole thing is my dad was in England at the church that he loved when he passed.

• 16:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  So we flew there for the funeral.

• 16:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  So at his funeral, Bobby, who I saw after many years was a surgeon. No, Bobby, the son, the son of a friend. The saint is like, the saint had long passed and you know, successor saints run the, run the church. Bobby, the son of my dad's good friend, who became a surgeon, who had come to visit us, right? So I knew Bobby, you know, we're in our teens, he comes, hangs out. You know, I go on and have my grown up life. Bobby has his grown up life, but my dad sees Bobby all the time because he visits England twice a year and Bobby's at the same church. So he knows Bobby's story. Bobby goes on to medical school, becomes a surgeon, what have you. Anyway, I see Bobby at my dad's funeral. He's like, did I ever tell you this story about your dad? I was like, what story Bobby? No, he didn't.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  He's like, you know, you remember I visited you in Canada and then I was thinking about what to do with my career? And I was thinking about, you know, becoming a doctor and becoming a surgeon. And so I sought out your dad. One year when he was like visiting the church in England, I was like, what do you think? And he said, you know what your dad did for me? I was like, no, what did he do? He's like, he took both my hands, he turned them up and down, and he looked at me, he's like, and he just like said to me with this like big, deep smile, he's like, Bobby, these are the hands of a surgeon.

• 18:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  You know, and like, just let me, like a little laugh, like nothing to him. Bobby's like, I always remember it because he looked me in the eye and he gave me this big smile and he's like, Bobby, and he turned my hands over, he's like, these are the hands of a surgeon. He's like, and then I went to medical school and I became a surgeon. And he's like, I always remember that point with your dad.

• 18:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's beautiful.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  That was my dad. So like, you know, it's no like, it's no like sit down, big lecture, like just lots of conversations and like gems like this everywhere. So like clearly like something for Bobby triggered, right? He's like, oh, like he just, he just told me I should go become a surgeon or like he gave me a blessing or something.

• 18:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's beautiful.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Dude, what are we doing? Like, we're supposed to talk about the book.

• 18:39Lewis Howes?

  This is the book.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  It is, it is, but it is the undertone of the book. Like this book is like the

• 18:45Lewis Howes?

  This is what's made you who you are.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but this book is the business manifestation.

• 18:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm fascinated by your story and obviously the story of your father has made a massive impact on who you've become as a human being. And it seems like without his presence and his being, you want to be the, the successful person you are. You want to be the caring, you know, mother, partner, executive, all these things that's driven you here.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  No, and look, I appreciate you getting to the heart of it, but the reality is, as we discussed, the reality is just that, you know, I think if we can come to a place in our lives where what we do and who we are integrated, that's sort of like, right, that's the highest.

• 19:27Lewis Howes?

  That's authentic power.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  That's authentic power, that's what we talked about. And so whenever people ask me about these lessons, they're so intertwined.

• 19:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I know that most people

• 19:39Speaker 01

  I see a lot of people who think about like what I do is different from who I am. And I have a very hard time separating the two, obviously. As you can tell.

• 19:46Lewis Howes?

  Explain that more. Like your job is not who you are?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Yes, your job is not who you are, right? So if you think about like you spend, and by the way, I'm not saying like have a job with like that leaves you with like no perspective on, you know, what's important in your life, right? But I'm saying that who you are at work and how you express your gift is as important. You know, think about spending 10, 12 hours a day at something. Finding a passion at work that expresses who you are. And as I keep coming back to your unique gift and strength for impact. Yeah, I think that's very purposeful.

• 20:20Lewis Howes?

  It's important.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  And I think a lot of people think like, oh, there's my day job and how I make money. And then there's, you know, what I care about. And I'm like, well, my example, my lifetime, not just my dad, by the way, we give him a lot of credit. But my mom, she was a doctor as well. She was an entrepreneur. She didn't love entrepreneurship the way my dad did, but she loved serving people. I'm like, why can't they be integrated? Why shouldn't they be integrated?

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Right, so I, yeah, so obviously I'm somebody who takes work too personally. While I think other people maybe have more distance from it, but I think it's all a reflection.

• 20:49Lewis Howes?

  Where they're like, well, this is my job and then I come home and I live my authentic life.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 20:53Lewis Howes?

  But what if you could live your authentic life all the time?

• 20:55Speaker 01

  All the time. And by the way, we all, look.

• 20:57Lewis Howes?

  And there's gonna be things you don't enjoy doing about your work or your job.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  Just like everyone, but if you could be yourself and use most of your gifts in that role.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  It would be great, right? Yeah, and of course, and you know, we live in an era where most people wanna go to work and feel even more so than ever that who they are is welcome and that they are included and what their values are fit. And I want the same thing, but this is not to suggest, by the way, I live some perfectly integrated life.

• 21:22Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  I'm like, this is making, you know, this has a risk of people thinking that I'm really good at this. What I would say is this is my, to your point, this is my intention and this is my worldview. So, as I said, I'm pretty convinced that the way I'm meant to express my gifts is through business. And that that's totally okay and more than okay.

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  Yes. How do you express your gifts in business?

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Well, I think you do it a few, I think you do.

• 21:47Lewis Howes?

  How do you personally do it?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  How do I personally do it?

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  Like when you're leading a company, how are you expressing your gifts?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Well, two, two things. I try and be, I try and bring three things to any situation in business. Number one, I wake up most days feeling pretty grateful for the. Amazingly talented people I get to work with.

• 22:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes, your team.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  And so I guess whatever when I'm at work as CEO, I think of like both leverage and my gift is making other people able to be even more successful and think of themselves and accelerate their journey.

• 22:16Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Right, so I think I have that gift because I don't think I wake up every day thinking I'm the, you know, the best person in the room. I think I wake up every day going like, wow, these are really talented people. And so what I know I can do for people is give them energy and excitement and passion and help, you know, help them maybe drive faster than they thought they could go.

• 22:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  So I think that's one of my unique gifts.

• 22:35Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Number two, again, not that I think I'm so smart, but I love consuming information. You know, I like, I like thinking fast and acting fast. And so I like to think that, you know, maybe a conversation, you know, with me is one where people learn faster and where I learn faster. Like that's a very, so it's not just my gift, right? It's what I enjoy. So I love interactions where you and I, like we have this interaction, we both leave and it's like a super rewarding interaction, right? I consume a lot of information. I could give you insight, you can give me insight and off we both go. And so I think I'm pretty good at consuming information and helping people give insight and gain insight by just asking lots of questions. So I think I process information, that's a gift, I think. But it's a gift to be used, right?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  To help accelerate outcomes.

• 23:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  For people and for businesses.

• 23:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Those are probably the two big ones, just processing power and, you know, passion, energy, ability to get people excited and make them realize that they're capable of more.

• 23:36Lewis Howes?

  What are the three most interesting questions you think we should be asking other human beings? Whether it be in business or life in general, what do you think are three most fascinating questions?

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think these are, well, I think the question is to ask yourself. First and foremost, I think everybody should ask themselves, what are my unique gifts? Like I, as we talked about, like I think that these, you know, this is a question I would ask you, but it's a question I think you should ask yourself, right? Like what are my unique gifts? Because I think that When we can articulate what those are, it's not like we're full of ourselves in a bad way. We understand how maybe we can have the most impact.

• 24:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  And we seek out environments where that impact can be kind of known, seen, practiced.

• 24:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  And realized. So I think that is the number one question people should ask themselves is, you know, you know, what are my most authentic gifts? Number two, and of course, I, and about others, I feel like I also, I believe people should deeply know what they're not great at.

• 24:35Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Like, and not just like, what are my unique vulnerabilities, not in like the, like the areas I have, like, I will all, that will always be my work to improve. Like, this is one of the point, like, I sound like, like I'm sitting on some pedestal, I'm not. I can tell you, like, my kids, I drive them crazy.

• 24:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Like, all of these same things that are gifts, as you know, have an edge to them.

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  That are pretty brutal, right? My kids would be like, Mom.

• 24:59Lewis Howes?

  What are your unique vulnerabilities?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Uh, well, they all are the downsides of my edges, right? Um, I would wish that, like, my father, I could make people feel, I know I can make people feel energized, but that same energy makes people feel pretty nervous, right? It has a dark side where it's like, people, people could feel like, well, am I not enough? Like, what do I do to keep up with your kinder? Like, that's not really the point, right? I'm not here to make you feel less of yourself.

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  I'm here, like, so I speed people up, do you know what I mean?

• 25:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  You start talking, I start talking, people are going faster and faster. So I'm pretty impatient.

• 25:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  So like, if you have high energy and it's always trying to be deployed, you're pretty impatient, right? You may not wait for somebody to finish their sentence. You make some, make somebody else feel nervous. So like, that will always be my work, right? And that is the downside of being like a highly energized person, like controlling that energy and that passion, right? So it's always at its most productive edge. That is it by a mile. That is like, that will be my work. And I have lots of other vulnerabilities, but, and lots of, like, well, we, you and I both agree, vulnerability is a good word, so I hate using that word.

• 25:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes, yes.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  I have lots of other areas for development.

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  Areas for growth.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Areas for growth, like tons, like tons, right? But, but I would say, like, what I'm aware of in myself is that one vein sprouts so many, you know.

• 26:09Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  It's like the root of a lot of evils, right? Right, like, um, so that's probably my biggest, uh, by far.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  Okay, and then the third question we should all ask.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  And the third question I, I would say that people should ask themselves, I think it's maybe not a question you ask once, it's a question you ask several, it, it's a question you ask many, many times, which is, what's possible now?

• 26:29Lewis Howes?

  In just any area of life.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  In any area, like if you stopped and said like, what's possible now that I'm not doing? Because I think that people, as remember we started this conversation, I said, people think the possibility is in big acts.

• 26:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  And I think possibilities in small acts. So if I see it, if it's like, what's possible today? Maybe that's the question. What's possible today? If I wanted, you know, if I wanted to find more joy in a certain area, if I want to find more joy at work, what's possible today? If I want to, and by the way, again, like, make no mistake, it's not like I'm perfect at this practice, right? I'm sure there's lots of things I should do, and I'm like, oh, you know, what's possible at home that I'm not doing today?

• 27:05Speaker 01

  But I do think that, you know, there's a lot of power in small acts. And, and starting now, right into your point, getting in that imperfect motion, right? Versus waiting for the day where every, every possibility will be perfect. That day never comes.

• 27:18Lewis Howes?

  Never.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  It never comes. So I think like, if you ask yourself, what's possible today? You probably unlock something today, right? I'm not saying, and I'm not saying any of us are going to be able to unlock it all, like, I live no perfect day where I unlock all the possibilities in my life. But yeah, I do know, you know, I do know the power that comes from unlocking even one possibility.

• 27:36Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. That sounds like, what's the lesson your dad, you said from your dad as well, small and big possibilities?

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:42Lewis Howes?

  When do you feel the most loved?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  When do I feel the most loved?

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  When you're doing or receiving what?

• 27:48Speaker 01

  It's a, yeah, we all feel loved, I guess, loved differently. Well, first and foremost, for me, I feel the most loved when I feel accepted for who I am.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, I was having this conversation this morning with someone.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  You were?

• 28:01Lewis Howes?

  Literally an hour ago, I was like, I'm so grateful and appreciative to be around people that fully accept me for who I am, don't judge me, don't try to change me.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:11Lewis Howes?

  But accept my authentic power.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Yes, that's totally right. And I would say, I feel like I feel completely loved when people accept me for who I am, including my imperfections.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  And maybe also I feel loved when people see who I am, right? So like, we'll leave this conversation and I'll reflect on it, and it's like, oh, that person saw a lot more of me. Right?

• 28:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  So I think when people see us fully, we feel loved, right?

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  So true. And why does it seem like in general, there are a lot of us who surround ourselves with people who don't accept us fully? Why does that happen?

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Well, first of all.

• 28:42Lewis Howes?

  And stay in like friendships or relationships?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  Where someone doesn't fully accept the other person?

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good question. Well, first of all, remember that on the other side of that equation is somebody else who's also looking for acceptance.

• 28:52Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  So it's never like a one way, right? So while we're all going through our own journeys, looking for to be see, seen and loved, so is the other person.

• 29:02Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  So I think part of the reason, like, it's sort of like ships in the night, right? Everybody is looking to be seen. So maybe, maybe what that means is when we stay in relationships, yes, we're hoping to be seen, but the other person is hoping the same thing.

• 29:15Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And maybe neither of us are engaging in like an authentic enough conversation with the other. Or, you know, like, we're so used to looking for it ourselves. And you're right, it's a surprise that we don't stop to give it to the other person. And maybe it's a two-way relationship. I don't know. It's a good question. Oh, yeah. I mean, you could, you know, you could give the, I don't, I'm sure you have many more capable people on this podcast on this question than me. I'm not a psychologist. I am not, you know, all I can come to is, you know, when we love ourselves, obviously, two things happen. Number one, maybe we have our own renewable source of energy that's enough. So while we want to be seen by other people, when we love ourselves, right? We come to any relationship able to do two things more. Number one.

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  See other people. You know what I mean? You're, you're not so starved yourself that all you want to do from that relationship is take. You know, but you can see other people, ask them the questions about how they want to be seen. But yeah, we also want to be seen as well. So I, I don't, I think I'm just rambling. I don't think I've got an answer to your question.

• 30:13Lewis Howes?

  I like this. Was there a moment when you fully fell in love with yourself?

• 30:20Speaker 01

  I don't think I'm fully in love with myself even now.

• 30:22Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, I think that I'm very.

• 30:27Lewis Howes?

  Like, fully loved and accepted yourself, not from like an ego standpoint?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you know, I understand. No, I mean, look. I still have all the same work that everybody else does. I still wake up with imposter syndrome. I still wake up.

• 30:37Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Of course, I still wake up ashamed of some of the things I have, you know. Not ashamed, not shame in that, like ashamed of the things I haven't achieved or, you know, the impact I still haven't had. Like, look, the book is an attempted impact, right? So clearly, I'm still striving to do something, so, but I would say, um, so I don't consider myself all the way there by any stretch.

• 30:57Lewis Howes?

  What do you feel an imposter about?

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Um, I feel like an imposter in a good way, like lots of people do. Every time, look, I think if you're somebody who wakes up and says, "My job is to have impact," right?

• 31:07Lewis Howes?

  It's never finished.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  No, it's never finished. And if you have the humility to understand that you are like, you know, like, as we talked about, like, you're a speck in this universe, right? Yeah, most days, I just want to wake up and make the most of the time I have. I realize it's finite and that I think I'm here for some purpose. That's what I was trained to believe by my own family spiritually, like, we're all here for some purpose to give. Then mostly, I'm just like constantly worried that I'm not fulfilling that promise. So, yeah, so it's not like a bad kind of likes, right? It's not like I wake up and say, "I don't accept myself." It's more like, I was like, "Wow, if I'm not pushing myself to do more and to have more impact, then I'm not really taking full advantage of why I'm here." So that's the kind of, and so, so by that, by that definition, you're always

• 31:53Speaker 01

  putting yourself in situations where it may not be enough. But you realize the only way, like, you're gonna have the impact you want is if you put yourself at risk. And so, if you put yourself at risk, you feel like an imposter. You're like, "Oh, because you're practicing some act you've never done yet," right? So, anyway, it's like, I'm good with it. Like, I'm good with it. So, to your point, I don't like fully myself up. I don't beat myself up. I've mostly accepted that, um, I have a worldview that says it's okay to be imperfect. It's okay that I never feel fully, you know, um, capable. I'm pretty comfortable with being, like, personally uncomfortable. And I'm, and I feel like that's okay. I feel like that's a way to, you know, pursue impact and, yeah. So if I'm uncomfortable, but I get the chances and more impact, isn't that worth it?

• 32:37Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. What are your thoughts on the culture of like, I consider you a high achiever, a high performer, you're in high executive positions, running big companies?

• 32:48Lewis Howes?

  And you mentioned something about like, am I creating more, am I doing enough or creating more impact? What about the people that say, you know, I want to do less, I want to have like less stress, less worry? How can I, how can I create more without the pressure and the stress?

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:01Lewis Howes?

  Or anxiety that might seem to come with it? How can I create it and also have inner peace? Is that possible as someone in your position as a high level CEO and executive and running billion dollar companies? Is it possible to have inner peace while also creating massive impact?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Sure. So like as an example, I identified for you, first of all, here's why I think, this is why I think it is possible. You talked about this idea of self-love and acceptance and understanding, like what drives you and who you are and why you're here. Like, I may not be peaceful every day, but I am at peace.

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Does that make sense?

• 33:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  And so I think it's different for different people. Like, I just want to be clear, like, I'm good with being a CEO, I'm good that that's my path of impact. I am good that there is a higher universe, that I may or may not achieve everything I want. Like, I, I am like totally good with it. So I consider myself at peace because I know that anything may come my way and it will be okay.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Like, like, look, I could fail miserably and I'll be okay because I have a very good sense of like, like my sense in the universe that I am loved by God. Like, I, like literally that I am loved, that I am, you know, I'm a full human being, that I am, yeah, anyway. So, so I think that if you say, how do you find peace? Look, peace means different things for different people. For me, peace means that I, like, I am in a role and every day waking up and have a way to express my gifts. That for me is peaceful. You know when I don't feel peaceful? I feel, I, I don't feel at peace when I don't know what it is. So, does that make sense? So like, my zone may be a zone of anxiety because every day I think I'm pushing myself

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  to express my gifts, but I'm at peace with that. So I don't know, like, oh, it depends what you mean by peace. There are people for whom, find being present in the moment, expressing who they full authentic, who they fully authentically are is completely different. And so I think peace means different things to different people. For me, I'm at peace when I'm like going a hundred miles an hour.

• 35:03Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Because that to me-

• 35:04Lewis Howes?

  Chaos is ensuing, yes.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  And not even chaos, but like I'm in pursuit of impact and purpose, right? Fully.

• 35:10Lewis Howes?

  And that can be messy.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Fully functioning.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  And that can be messy.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  And it's messy, but like- Like maybe part of my gift is I can deal with mess. If you're a CEO, you deal with mess all the time. You deal with grit. You deal with big possibility and small possibility. You deal with problems. You deal with people being upset. Like, so maybe that's part of my gift, right? That I can handle all those things.

• 35:26Lewis Howes?

  You can hold the space for thousands of employees' problems and ups and downs and challenges.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  That's right. And maybe that's part of what I'm meant to do, right? In the world to help people. And by the way, there are many different ways to express your gifts, as I come back to. So, so is it possible to be a CEO and be at peace? Yes, it depends on what you're pursuing. And, and I think to be at peace with yourself, you just need to know, know what makes you happy, what makes you fulfilled? Like, like, what gives you fulfillment? And for me, like, the pursuit of impact gives me fulfillment.

• 35:53Lewis Howes?

  How does someone discover what the unique gift is if they don't know what it is?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  I would say to people, if you don't know what it is, ask.

• 35:59Lewis Howes?

  Ask someone else.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Ask somebody, ask the people who know you the best.

• 36:02Lewis Howes?

  Ask what? What's my gift?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  No, it's interesting. So I'll give you an example. Like, people are like, I, I, so when I give business talks, people, you know, I start any conversation with like, do you know your superpowers? And you know, like, whether it's MBAs or like new grads or CEOs, like a third of the room puts up their hand, which I find annoying. Not annoying, and like, not annoying in a bad way, but kind of. I'm like, annoying, annoying for the older people, not the young people. I'm like, okay, if you're telling me that you've gone this far in your career, and you're being falsely modest, that's not that helpful. Because if you're a leader and you don't know what your gifts are, or your areas of vulnerability, how do you ever? You need to know, right? So that's false modesty. And if you're younger, I say, if you don't know, ask the people around you. Like, you know, what do you think I'm uniquely gifted at?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  And I think sometimes the answers will surprise you, but you'll find the threads of who you are. So I don't think that we're really good at getting, when we're younger, getting feedback on who we are and what makes us shine. What we get feedback on is, are we good in school? Or are we smart? Or what have you? But like, what your unique gifts are, I think your friends and family and even your colleagues will use two or three words to describe you. So you may not say, what's my unique gifts? You're just like, you know, like, what do you think I'm great at? You know, or what do you think, where do you think I shine? And I think you'll hear words that come up again and again and again from all the people in your life that know you professionally and personally.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  And I just don't think people move through the world with that, you know, with that understanding.

• 37:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Do you think we should be pursuing fulfillment then, in our gifts, over happiness?

• 37:30Speaker 01

  I guess I believe that fulfillment, fulfillment can lead to happiness. Like, I think, and they think that...

• 37:39Speaker 01

  And impact can lead to happiness. And I know there are other people who are like, hey, just be happy in what you're doing every day and the tasks of what you do, and that leads to fulfillment. And I think it's bidirectional. Like, if you want to pursue happiness, and happiness gives you fulfillment, great. If you want to pursue fulfillment and fulfillment gives you happiness, great. There are two sides of the same coin.

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I don't know that... I think that there's something ethereal about when you say to people, like, happiness. Like, be happy today. I'm like, okay, you can be happy today, but you still need to have bifocals on, right? Like, happy today, maybe some people, their best life is they'd maximize happiness every day. And for other people, their best life is they might minimize happiness on a given day, but maximize happiness over a cycle. Both are possible. It's not an either-or. But if somebody says to me, pursue happiness every day, I'd be like, well, actually, by virtue of being a CEO, like, every day is not happy. You deal with a lot of, like, messy problems that are very stressful, right? But over the course of your, you know, of your career, you find fulfillment.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  And you look back, and you're like, I wouldn't have it any other way. So is that happiness too?

• 38:45Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  So, but I see both. Like, my husband is a very different person for me. We're kind of very complementary. And I think my husband, in a good way, pursue, you know, like, pursues happiness every day. That's a great way to be. There are days I wake up and I wish I could pursue happiness every day, right? Like, so I'm saying the two sides of the same coin. So it feels like better than mine or worse than mine. No, they're just different.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  He maximizes his happiness, I think, every day or every week. And I maximize mine over maybe two years, I only like five years, or like, you know, a month. It doesn't matter, right? We're both in pursuit of the same thing.

• 39:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  What about you? Do you pursue happiness every day? Or do you pursue, do you have this arc and you're willing to take a lot of unhappiness every day to be?

• 39:29Lewis Howes?

  I pursue growth and impact every day.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yes, you pursue fulfillment, leading to happiness. Unhappiness leading to fulfillment.

• 39:36Lewis Howes?

  But I'm also, I pursue delayed gratification as well. Like, I pursue pain.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:43Lewis Howes?

  So that I can stay healthy.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:45Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean? It's like, I do things that are uncomfortable consistently so that I... Live a happier, healthier life long term.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:51Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to short term like happiness or relief or...

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. And by the way, like I would say, my husband is like that. He's a former athlete, so, or professional athlete. So, to your point, on the physical front and so on, he will pursue good health every day. And actually, I make poorer choices every day.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  You're right.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  But, but we're probably both trying to optimize and delay gratification in different ways.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's great. Okay, I want to shift the conversation. There's a stat that I saw. Around 65% of businesses fail during the first 10 years.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:22Lewis Howes?

  And you worked with a lot of multi-billion dollar companies, as well as some failed startups.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, both.

• 40:29Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think most businesses fail? And what can we do to build stronger businesses?

• 40:34Speaker 01

  I think a lot of businesses fail for two or three different reasons. But I'm going to outline the couple that are most important.

• 40:41Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  And it comes back to what I believe about people, too. First and foremost, in anything we execute as entrepreneurs, you know, let's take the example of being an entrepreneur, because it's totally related to running a startup. We tend to believe that it's all about us. Remember that worldview I just talked about? We think it's all about us.

• 40:59Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  But most times, when you look at businesses, there's like macro and micro. Businesses like, I would say, if you want to understand why you're failing or succeeding, you can say, "It all comes down to my execution. What could I be doing better?" Right? And that's true. You should go take the feedback on what you can be doing and optimizing. We're going to talk about in a moment. But first, I'm like, lift your head up. What's going on around you that's impacting your success or failure? So, when you look at businesses that thrive, I'm always like, okay, look at the tailwinds that they're riding. You know, or look at the tailwinds that they might be riding or the headwinds they're facing. So, I'm like, so, I think the first reason that businesses might succeed or fail is they are overly attuned to their execution and maybe not as attuned to the macro tailwinds and headwinds.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  In the book, I give a story of my, the story of my sister who ran an optometry practice. And for many years, it was going really well.

• 41:50Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  By the way, much more than 10. Like, probably, probably ran that practice for 12, 15 years, always growing, right? Growing, and she had employees, had thoughtful fold at work, all of those things. Her own boss, all those things. And then it started going to decline.

• 42:04Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 42:05Speaker 01

  So, and it started in steady decline and every year she was eating into more of her savings. And I said, well, Nikki is like, okay, so let's step back. So let's step back and understand why your business is in decline. By the way, she knows, she's very smart. She's like, well, I'm in a mall. This mall has less foot traffic. There are now three optometrists in this mall. So more competition. The mall itself has less foot traffic because more people are shopping online. Oh, and wait, there's also a lot of companies that are starting to sell you glasses online. So an optometrist makes their money, not just by doing eye exams, but the most lucrative part of the practice is guess what?

• 42:37Lewis Howes?

  Selling products.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Selling products. Okay, so now you look at those macro trends. So Nikki's business is starting to decline. And I'm like, Nikki, like, let's look at your choices. She's like, well, this is all I know. This is what I know. Like, I am-

• 42:48Lewis Howes?

  You do this for 20 years.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  And it's mine and, you know, I know it. Right, so let's look at this. Right, so a business that's doing well then turns into decline. So you could say, Nikki, run faster. Keep your, you know, hours up later.

• 43:00Lewis Howes?

  Marketing spend.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  You know, spend more, right? Get better inventory. Okay, let's stop a moment. Your location is in decline. You have more competition. Like, this trend is not going anywhere, right? Like, and by the way, the mall charges you fixed rent and wants to increase the rent to you right here. Okay, so like, at the macro level, is this scenario going to work? You can try and execute your way out of this mousetrap. Is it going to work? And so then we charted a course and she, you know, we laid out five new options. And ultimately, my sister ended up taking one after five or six years and sold her practice and moved to a new location and worked for a growing franchise of optometry practices that bought her practice and that's closer to her home and, you know, are able to compete because they have the dollars and capital to go figure out how they're going

• 43:46Speaker 01

  to drive people to their own locations.

• 43:48Lewis Howes?

  It's not all on her making all the decisions.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  It's not on her, right? And so that's a perfect example of when I say macro versus micro, you have to lift your head up and assess the tailwinds and headwinds of your macro situation.

• 43:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  So the first flaw is many people think it's all about them. It's not all about them. Okay, that's piece one. Now let's come to the part that is all about you, which is, we sort of want to make one decision and stick with it. And I think this is sort of a big part of the thesis for why I wrote the book. We think it's one decision to success. We think it's one choice to success. And I'm like, okay, well, whether you want to or not, the conditions around you keep changing. You may want them to stay static, but they're not. And so what if I told you that for you to keep succeeding, you need to keep choosing? It's like actively keep choosing.

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  Choosing new decisions.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Choosing new decisions, taking new risks.

• 44:36Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Getting in tighter feedback loops, adjusting, adjusting, adjusting.

• 44:39Lewis Howes?

  Always.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Always. So obviously tech is very good at this, right? But we're not as good at this in small businesses or in our own careers. You say, you know how like you like you wanna you wanna just do something and set it, right?

• 44:52Lewis Howes?

  Life doesn't work that way.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Set it and forget it. Exactly.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  Life doesn't work that way.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Right? So like businesses don't work that way. So like you wanna set it and forget it. But as my old CTO at StubHub would say, like, like product market fit is elusive. You think that you do something and then you have it. But then something adjusts and then you need to adjust and then you need to keep adjusting. So like this is the way our lives unfold. This is the way businesses unfold. So if you said to me like, you know, why do you? And I think Paul Graham at YC talks about this. Like sometimes to make it, you have to survive. And surviving is about pivoting, pivoting, pivoting, pivoting, pivoting.

• 45:22Lewis Howes?

  Constantly.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Constantly. And so I think if you wanna set it and forget it, I don't know of many businesses now that work that way. Because every single business is being disrupted. And by the way, if they're not being disrupted by technology, even small businesses.

• 45:33Lewis Howes?

  Being disrupted by the pandemic or politics or this, whatever.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Local politics.

• 45:37Lewis Howes?

  Everything.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  A competitor down the street, right? So you have to keep adjusting.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Some new innovation that comes out or some new technology.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  So whether it's micro or macro, remember we said life lives in possibility? So you have to keep pursuing the next possibility. Because at the minute you're like at stasis. Whether you're a small business or whether you're a gigantic startup, you know, with plenty of money, you have to keep adjusting. So first of all, I think people are not nearly heads down enough when it comes to adjustments, adjusting.

• 46:04Lewis Howes?

  They're not willing to, they're not willing to adjust?

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, not willing to adjust. And like, you know, it's like, as I said, they wanna set it and forget it. And I think number two, so you have to keep pivoting to keep product market fit. And then number two, so I'm like, you have to be heads down, but heads down to pivoting. And then you have to be heads up. To like the environment around you and the stuff that's not all about you and then find your responses. So I know that sounds like a very simplistic thing for like, why do some businesses, you know, take 10 years to, you know, just like, look, the board list is five years old. It's my own startup, right? It just raised season funding. The board list is always adjusting. Like, I can't tell you what it'll be in five years.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  It's not the same thing now as it was when it started.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  It wasn't. And by the way, if we want to be there in five years, like, we're gonna have to keep adjusting as we go. And like, there's gonna be new entrants and new competition and new legislation and like, and so sometimes I understand that that's like tiring, but that's the way the world works.

• 46:54Lewis Howes?

  That's the way business will thrive. The only way it'll thrive.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  The only way it'll thrive is if you're willing to keep adjusting. Now, the good news is like, if it's a small business, that doesn't mean you have to go, you know, like, your adjustments might be micro-adjustments, right?

• 47:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  But it's like this.

• 47:08Lewis Howes?

  You don't have to change your whole product line and everything.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, right? And maybe you're gonna make a thousand adjustments and one day you'll end up in an entirely new business. Or maybe you'll make a thousand adjustments and your business will be just a better, better version of what it is today. I don't know the answer. But if you say to me like, why do startups fail? And I know that's a like, a long question, a long answer to your question. I'm sort of like, first of all, it's not all about you. Heads up. And then the part that is about you is about adjusting and pivoting. So like, heads down, keep pivoting. Keep it, yeah, right.

• 47:36Lewis Howes?

  How do you learn to keep pivoting when, you know, part of business success and growth and scale is like automating systems, having processes in place, having, you know, procedures that are constantly then, okay, we gotta constantly shift these processes and shift the

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Well, actually, I think

• 47:52Lewis Howes?

  The software and change these things.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I should have used a better word than pivoting. Let's call it iterating.

• 47:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  So, you know, businesses are iterative cycles of focus. So that's sort of my point. So like, let's say you're in your company and competition is like, you know, is, is increasing, you know, as I said, there's like 10 painting companies down the road that have just emerged and you run a exterior paint company. I'm like, okay, this is when I, when I, I shouldn't say pivoting. What I mean is like constantly iterating on the part that needs it, right? So you have to sequentially say like, okay. Hold the rest of this part. I mean, now you need to go figure out like what my marketing strategy is. Okay, when that's done, like, you know, there will be yet another thing to iterate on. So I think it's pivoting is probably has a higher connotation like like as if you're not focused. What I'm suggesting is like you have to serially iterate and focus on different.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  And it's like, it's going like full way around a circle and then maybe coming all the way back. Like, um, so that's what I mean more.

• 48:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  It's like iterating.

• 48:53Lewis Howes?

  This is good stuff. I mean, I feel like a lot of people had to learn that lesson the hard way during the pandemic.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:58Lewis Howes?

  Because if you didn't pivot or iterate, then you're failing.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:02Lewis Howes?

  Like it forced you to fail if you weren't willing to evolve.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Right. Well, don't you think so? Again, just sort of like this is, this is the whole reason this is a good time to have a conversation about risk taking and how to evolve and grow yourself. Right? Because I feel like in the pandemic, people really learned a lot more about their risk taking ability when times were tough.

• 49:25Lewis Howes?

  They either like help back or they went all in on something, right?

• 49:28Speaker 01

  You got it, right. But either way, don't you believe in the pandemic, people learned a lot more about their agility and resilience and ability to pivot fast than they learned when times were good?

• 49:36Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Right? So when we're trying to avoid harm, active harm, we often are actually more risk taking than we are like in our daily safe lives. And you're like, what's that all about? This is a good time to ask that question.

• 49:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Which is why I think that the pandemic should have given us all confidence that we're much more capable of response than we think you are agile response. Right? And so your opportunity is, okay, if you know that about yourself, what holds you back when times are good? And it's often things like ego, right? Like personal fear of personal failure, right? And that's why I'm like, okay, believe in like what's possible today and try it. And if it's not, you iterate your way out of it. Like I sort of am believer that you can, if this book's bad, I'm going to iterate my way out of it. If this podcast, you know, if like people are like, oh, my God, she's a crier. Like this podcast gets a two rating, I'm going to iterate my way out of it.

• 50:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  So, um, I just believe that people learned a lot more about their capacity to respond. And so it gives us all a lot more choice than we think we have.

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you took bigger risks during the pandemic? Or did you?

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure.

• 50:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  I mean, look, I took, I took big risks and small risks. At work, as you know, I was running StubHub and we had just sold the company.

• 50:43Lewis Howes?

  A month before you sold it, right?

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, we sold it on the, we sold it on February 13th and on March 13th, our business.

• 50:49Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  You know, our business collapsed, like everybody in live, in live events. And so, um, And it's really interesting because I was running StubHub. I'd been bought in to run StubHub by eBay, which was the parent company of StubHub. And I would say eBay was attracted to me as StubHub CEO because I had just come from being an entrepreneur. I'd been at Google early in my career and scaled, and then I'd been an entrepreneur for seven years. And so I think eBay wanted that entrepreneurial energy back at StubHub because StubHub had been, at that point was owned by almost 10 years by eBay. And its growth was slowing and costs were, you know, maybe higher than they should be. Margin was declining. And so I think I was bought in to bring that entrepreneurial energy, right, and to help StubHub pivot. So, and find new services and all sorts of things.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  So I felt like I spent, and we had a, I loved the team we had at StubHub. They're just a great group of humans. But I still felt like we spent, I spent one and a half, 1.9 months out of my two years of tenure trying to train people to be more agile. I'm like, okay, guys, you have to make multiple moves and we can come there next if you want. I have a thesis on what it takes for businesses to really succeed. And the research would say it doesn't take one move, it takes multiple moves for you to be an outperformer. So we'll talk about that. So I'm trying to train them to be agile. It's like, look, over here, we need to cut costs. Over here, we need to get international going. Over here, we need to try new services. Over here, we need to reinvest in the core. But you're trying to create a portfolio strategy, but teaching people to be more agile, right? And so here we are, and for nine months, working, changing the culture and, you know, getting people to take more risks at work and all those things.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  And people, we're making progress.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  Leadership development.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  All those things, right? And then what happens? The pandemic happens and the entire company goes into crisis mode.

• 52:28Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 52:28Speaker 01

  And, and within a month, we restructured the business. We changed policies overnight. We took risks to make sure we survived.

• 52:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  And we took them rapidly and 100% of our employee base was on board, hands like, hands on deck, just figuring it out in real time. And it was like one of my proudest moments, those most stressful moments as a CEO. Because people all learned about their agility. So like, we made more decisions, right? And pivoted, like, think about running a company for EBITDA and gross part, more margin points of growth and revenue growth for like 99% of your tenure. And then all of a sudden, you move to a cash flow business, literally. Do we have enough cash?

• 53:06Lewis Howes?

  To pay this month's salaries.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like, literally. And by the way, we're no longer owned by eBay. We're owned by another private startup whose cash constrained themselves. Like, do we have enough money? Oh, my God, customers are asking for hundreds of millions of dollars in refunds. Like, where is the money? I mean, like, literally, you go to managing on cat, like, you go to manage daily, weekly, monthly cash for a company that hasn't been used to that for like, the entirety of its last 10 to 15 years, right? So 10 years at least with, under eBay. So, anyway, long-winded way of saying, I think that we learn more in crisis. I learned more, certainly as a CEO, was the most intense period I've ever been through.

• 53:42Lewis Howes?

  What did you learn about yourself?

• 53:43Speaker 01

  What did I learn about myself? Honestly, in the pandemic, I don't think that I learned that much about myself. I don't mean that in a bad way, on the business side. Remember, I've been a startup CEO and I've been through crises. I have been through crises. So what I learned about myself is, thank God, I have, like, lived the life of, you know, cyclicality and entrepreneurship that maybe makes me well positioned for this moment. It's not like in the time I was like, I'm well positioned. It's more like, I felt stable and secure.

• 54:13Lewis Howes?

  That's so interesting.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  And capable.

• 54:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  I felt capable.

• 54:16Lewis Howes?

  I felt the same thing during the pandemic.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, I mean, I felt nervous, don't get me wrong, like, on edge.

• 54:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  On edge.

• 54:23Lewis Howes?

  Scared a little bit, yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  But capable, yeah, scared, but capable. Responsible, but capable. Like, do you know what I mean? So, so I was, I felt, I felt assured of myself in the moment, but I felt, obviously, a lot of anxiety for our team. So what I learned about myself in the pandemic, that I felt grateful that I'd had this set of experiences before.

• 54:43Lewis Howes?

  To be able to take on challenges.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  In that moment of responsibility, I was like, I can do it. What I feel like, what I felt like I learned most is what I already knew about our people, which is, you are capable. Okay, so what I learned in the pandemic is, I felt like saying, like, I know you're capable.

• 54:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Look what you just did.

• 54:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  So. Right? So that was the gift of the pandemic. Helping other people understand that they are capable to and being a leader in that moment. Which is like, look what we, look what we just did. We, we were able to do this. You, you know, you would never have guessed that you would see this situation. Neither did I. You are capable. Okay. By the way, it's not that we handled it perfectly. So we didn't have pissed off customers, whatever, but we needed to deliver, you know, and make sure the company survived. And we did. And that was 2,000 people. That wasn't me, right? That was 2,000 people coming together, cutting their own jobs. Like, think about this, Ramon. People who are like, understand that they're gonna have to make sacrifices, give up their own security. I mean, it was painful, but people understood they were capable. So I think that's what I learned. And then on the

• 55:43Speaker 01

  personal side, what I learned through COVID, I learned the importance of all the things my, my husband was always telling me, he's like, why are you commuting, for God's sake? You live up hours a day. And I'm like, I have to. Seven, I have to. I have to be present for my employees. I have to commute. Like, the only jobs are in San Francisco. You know, my hus-

• 56:00Lewis Howes?

  Where are we living?

• 56:01Speaker 01

  I live in, I live in Silicon Valley. So I mean, keep in mind-

• 56:04Lewis Howes?

  Like, an hour commuting?

• 56:05Speaker 01

  An hour each way. I mean, so for 20 years, right, I've said to my family, you know, I have to do this. Like, I have, right? And my husband's like, really? Do you have to? Do you? And so I would just say, what else did I learn? I was pretty schooled on all the things we think we have to do. You know, that your family tells you, do you have to do this? So for all of us who are CEOs who make our families sacrifice a shit ton for our careers and our ambitions, like, I felt like I learned that, in fact, the commute has cost, cost me a lot.

• 56:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 56:33Speaker 01

  In terms of my, you know, just in terms of like, my productivity, my time, like,

• 56:37Lewis Howes?

  Energy.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  being home for dinner, you know, all of those things. And then I felt, like many people, the COVID learning for me was like, man, look at all that we, you know, we miss of like, our families and each other. And again, like, this is not like some saintly view. I'm sure I'm gonna be capable of many sins as like, hybrid work comes back. But, you know, just the joy of like, seeing your kids every day, you know, having them all home for a moment, like, all of those things. Like, yeah, I, I saw those moments too. And I was like, wow, what have I missed? So, and of course, as I go back to being a CEO again, I'm inevitably gonna screw it up. But I said to my, I said to my family, I was like, can we just keep like, one or two COVID rituals as everybody goes back to their thing? You know what I mean?

• 57:18Speaker 01

  The kids go back to practices. And, and so I, like everybody else, I just was to make for it. Like, maybe I can hang on to one or two of these things. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna like- Screw it up on a bunch of other things because I just love work too much and I sacrifice a lot of my personal life to it and my and but hopefully we keep a few things, a few covid practices.

• 57:37Lewis Howes?

  I want to talk about wealth creation and wealth building.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 57:40Lewis Howes?

  What do you think are the three most important steps to building wealth? For an individual?

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Ownership. Like literally equity ownership. Like you look at the most wealthy people in the world and if you want to be wealthy, you need to be an owner.

• 57:54Lewis Howes?

  They have equity in something.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  They have equity in something. You have equity in your small business. You know, you're like my sister. You you have equity in your practice and you sell your patient files, you know, to a bigger partnership or you're like me and you have equity in a big company or small company, whether you started it or not. You know, equity ownership is the key to wealth creation. That's why people own their homes. Biggest source of wealth for people, homeownership, right? You have to be an owner.

• 58:17Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  So, yeah, for sure, that's that's a that's a big one. Number two, you know this, everybody knows it, but we need to do it, saving, saving, just like saving early and compounding returns.

• 58:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  I think is the second.

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  A lot of people don't do that.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  A lot of, most people don't do it.

• 58:33Lewis Howes?

  Years ago.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Most people don't do it.

• 58:34Lewis Howes?

  Even when I didn't have that much money, I was like, ah, even 500 bucks a year, a thousand bucks, you know, when I was broke.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  I know, right?

• 58:39Lewis Howes?

  This is something. I remember I started at like 27, maybe, starting to like my IRA and then just other investments. And I was like, but I don't have that much to invest to save in.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:49Lewis Howes?

  I wasn't making that much. But now 11 years later, I'm like, oh, look what I've accumulated.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Well, more importantly, saving allows you to do what? Become an owner.

• 58:59Lewis Howes?

  Right, you can buy something with it.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  You got it. These are inherently related, right? So if you say like, if you don't save, guess what? The day the equity ownership comes up to buy a piece of a home or these days a piece of a home or land.

• 59:11Lewis Howes?

  Or business or whatever.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Or a stock market, you know, equity in the stock market.

• 59:15Lewis Howes?

  Collectibles, art, whatever you want to, yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  If you don't have savings, how do you become an owner? It's impossible. So these two things are inherently related, right? So even if it's fractional ownership, which we all have opportunities for now. So I think in order to become an owner, you need to accumulate savings.

• 59:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  So I think that's the I think that is, those are my two. I don't have a third. Those are it, those are the two.

• 59:35Lewis Howes?

  What about the mindset around? Wealth and creating more financial abundance.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:41Lewis Howes?

  How do we shift the narrative from thinking, you know, money's bad, or I don't understand money, or I'm not educated on it, so then I'm not going to receive it? How do we, how do we change the mindset of the conversations we have around money?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 59:54Lewis Howes?

  Because I feel like a lot of people don't talk about it enough.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. People, I mean, and I don't know, there's no shame in wealth creation, right? I mean, but I think there are two things. First of all, financial literacy is so key. You know this. I mean, if you don't have financial literacy.

• 1:00:06Lewis Howes?

  It's hard, yeah.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  It's hard, right? So, um, so I was lucky that my, you know, I give my dad so much credit. My dad, like, owned equities. Like, he literally owned stocks. He would call his broker and buy them every day. So I saw stock ownership as a thing, right? And then I ended up becoming a financial analyst. So, of course, I got financially literate. But my point is, if you're not literate, getting literate about is how you understand savings and ownership, what have you. So I think that literacy is sort of one way and not to be afraid of these conversations.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  What are, what are two books you would recommend to someone on becoming more financially literate?

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Uh, so to be honest, I've never read a book in my life because I did it all on the job.

• 1:00:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  So I think I'm a poor person to answer.

• 1:00:44Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Just dumb. Like, if you said, like, have you read a book on financial literacy? I'd be like, uh.

• 1:00:49Lewis Howes?

  You had mentors.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  I had mentors and, like, my first job was as a financial analyst. So, like, I went to undergraduate business school, you know? So I did my dad's taxes, like, understand. I did his taxes.

• 1:01:00Lewis Howes?

  You were 12 when you did that, right?

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  I started teaching us to do his ledgers, like, to literally write, like, numbers in a ledger when we were seven or eight. Like, doing his taxes was a family affair.

• 1:01:09Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  Like, no joke. So, so when I say I was grown financially literate, that's actually true. So I don't think I'm a good person to recommend a book. But you could probably have a client of yours who would give people the best recommendations. So I think literacy is one. Number two, I think if we are a female and in a relationship, we tend to think, um... That there's some shame in asking the other. You know, like your husband, or you know, whatever. Whoever is the wealth store, like you have to, to your point, you have to ask.

• 1:01:39Lewis Howes?

  Ask what questions?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Well, you have to ask, like, where are our bank accounts? What do we have? Like, if you just, it's not just a question of being literate. It's a question of being, like, informed and not just trusting your financial decisions to other people.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  So, like, some people, like, if they're not literate, they won't ask. I'd say the converse is true. Like, you can be literate and ask at the same time. So if somebody is managing your money, you better freaking know where it is. And part of getting literate is being comfortable with asking questions, like. And if you don't, so, so I think there's literacy and there's information. And they're very highly correlated. So I know people who, their husbands or, you know, manage all their money. I know people who give money to their broker and they don't know what their broker's investing in. I'm like, okay, so one is literacy, but one is, like, sheer information. So I see a lot of people who are like, this is an uncomfortable topic. So I'm just gonna also outsource, not just literacy, I'm just gonna outsource information. Like, somebody else has information on my financial well-being. That's a little crazy to me. But I see a lot of people who just don't wanna have the conversation.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  More often, women than men. This is why I like platforms like Elvest and others that, like, are driving, you know, driving, uh, women to manage their own wealth, I think is so, is disproportionately important. So I think that, I think that's, I think, I think that's very key.

• 1:02:50Lewis Howes?

  How can women change the mindset around, you know, earning, saving, investing, and becoming more, you know, having more ownership of their money mind?

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I think many women are.

• 1:02:59Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Um, but I just think that platforms that do it, I think anything that gives you education without it being intimidating is, like, very critical. So I think that, like, I think women are doing it more and more. But I think that platforms that can accelerate your knowledge or your management of your own money is key. The third thing you can do is, we talked about, take a little risk. Like, if you're too afraid to manage all your money. Take 10% of it and say, "I'm gonna go, I'm gonna manage this directly."

• 1:03:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  And then the third thing I say to people is, if you want to start creating wealth, invest in what you know. Okay, so people think that-

• 1:03:34Lewis Howes?

  Don't invest in crypto if you don't understand it.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's not just like literate about like how financial systems work. It's like, literally invest in what you know.

• 1:03:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  So I've become an e-commerce investor over the last 10 years, and a pretty good one. But that's because I was the e-commerce CEO.

• 1:03:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  And so while I understood the business, and so I was practicing every day. I thought like, "God, like, I know enough about these numbers to know where our numbers look good or bad." But that gives me pattern recognition in becoming an angel investor. So as opposed to like, yes, I had diversification of wealth across different sectors, or diversification of angel investments across different sectors of e-commerce. But literally, I doubled down on e-commerce because I understood that business. When I was an analyst, I was at Merrill Lynch early in my career, and I worked on the financial services industry, the savings and loan industry, which is the most, you know, I learned about savings and loans, balance sheet, and income statements. And the first stocks I ever bought were in the savings and loan industry. Because I was like, "I understand what good looks like." So I think if you want to create wealth, you know, you need to understand what you're investing in.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Let's say you're gonna buy real estate. Okay, well, you need to understand the neighborhood. You need to understand the comps. You can't just fall in love with a house and say like, you know, "Is this a good investment?"

• 1:04:44Lewis Howes?

  It looks good, I'm just gonna buy, yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but I mean this like one and done, somebody shows you something, you know?

• 1:04:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  So I think there's generally literate asking about your own money and understanding like where it is, who's managing it, like what's there? If you're shy about, like, I think, and then I think number three, very specifically literate when you want to invest in something.

• 1:05:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. If someone feels like a failure, like they have these failure conversations with themselves, they feel like they have a lot of negative thoughts. How can we overcome these negative thoughts and help us get out of a rut? If we kind of feel like we're always stuck in that failure mindset?

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, I, I think that when people are looking at failure-

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  One of the reasons I think failure is so daunting for people is because they think of, they think that a choice is binary. So I think there are two things that you need to do if you want to get out of failure mindset. First of all, you have to get out of this idea that you have one shot at glory.

• 1:05:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Okay, so we fear failure because we think whatever decision we make is what Jeff Bezos calls a one-way door. I go through this door, there's no coming back.

• 1:05:50Lewis Howes?

  It's going to define me forever.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  It's going to define me forever. Like, right? When Jeff Bezos, in a shareholder letter to Amazon shareholders, said, very clearly said, "Most of the decisions we make at Amazon are two-way doors. You go through, it doesn't work out, you come back."

• 1:06:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Right? So I think that most people have the perception that failure is the result of a binary choice. You know, you make one choice, it fails or succeeds. Now, if you believe like I believe, that actually between you and a reward is probably not one decision, but 30, 40, 100? Does the first, should you really overweight the importance of the first decision? I would say you should overweight your ability to keep choosing. If you can keep choosing, you will find a path. It may not be, you may not end up where you started, but you know, where you wanted when you started, but there will be a path. But that, like, you have to dismiss this myth that failure is a bi- bimodal, binary, one-way door. It isn't.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  It's just the first choice in a series of choices you will inevitably have to make.

• 1:06:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  So first of all, stop thinking about failure as like a one-choice circumstance. It's just not. Then number two, and I will say this, supposing the decision you're contemplating is in fact bigger, and it is a one-way door. I make it up. You mortgage your house.

• 1:07:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  You're starting a company, like, you know, you can't take back the mortgage, you quit your day job, you go to zero salary, and you mortgage your house. Okay, we could agree that's a big risk. In that mode, I always say to people, like, okay, well, if it's a big risk, then as opposed to planning for all the upside that's going to happen, now they said, "Plan for the failure mode. Plan for the failure mode in order to get yourself to act." And people are like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "Okay. If something's really, you know, a big and scary risk, I want you to tell me the five choices you'd make after the choice. Tell me. Like, what are they?"

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Like, what are the two? What are the three? What are the four?

• 1:07:36Lewis Howes?

  If it fails.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  If it fails, play through the failure. Tell me the five choices. And then, I bet that you will find two, three, four recovery paths. But actively think about that now. Park all of your imagining of the upside. Okay, that's great to get what I call your FOMO going. You'll get really excited. Fear of missing out is like, you know, you want to act. You visualize the positive. But when you're trying to overcome failure, I'm like, visualize a failure. Work it through.

• 1:08:00Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Understand all your contingencies. And then, you're probably far more likely to get into action. Because what you've done is reduce your fear of failure.

• 1:08:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Because you can actually, you're actively imagining the choices after the choice. When it fails.

• 1:08:14Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting you say that, because I was interviewing a UFC fighter, George St. Pierre.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:08:18Lewis Howes?

  And it was one of the greatest of all time. And he was talking, I think it was him or another UFC fighter that I heard, I can't remember which one it was. But talking about how they train to be in the most uncomfortable situations.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:29Lewis Howes?

  Like, I'm on my back, my arm is behind my back, I've got a hand here, and a guy is just punching me in the face. How do I get out of this?

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Yes, that's exactly right.

• 1:08:36Lewis Howes?

  How do I get out of it? How do I stay calm? How do I not like, pass out? How do, you know, if I'm in the worst position possible, like, every bad position I train for.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:45Lewis Howes?

  And I train to get out of it.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:08:47Lewis Howes?

  So that when it does happen.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:49Lewis Howes?

  I'm like, this sucks and it's uncomfortable, but I know I can get out of it.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:53Lewis Howes?

  And if I can just get back on my feet and stand up again, then I can take the next step.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, exactly. And then, and I think for people who are like, I fail. Let's say you pick a new job, and you left your old job, and you cut your ties, and it fails. I'm like, okay, what then? So, play through.

• 1:09:07Lewis Howes?

  You lose your relationship. You lose your, everything you lose here.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, then you're like, okay, well then what would you do?

• 1:09:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Because I think that on small failures, it's enough to know that if you act once, you still have 10 more choices.

• 1:09:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  On something that is like, truly a one-way door. There are very few decisions that truly you can't come back from. And those things, you're like, okay, then what are my contingencies?

• 1:09:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  What do I do? So, I believe that like, this risk-taking equation guides all of us, which is fear of, fear of missing out is more than fear of failure. Whichever one is, you know, fear of missing out is greater than fear of failure. You'll take action if fear of failure is greater than fear of missing out. You won't. But most people only want to work one side of that equation, which is think about the positive.

• 1:09:45Lewis Howes?

  Right. No, you gotta think about both.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a real, it's, yeah.

• 1:09:48Lewis Howes?

  One of my coaches, Chris Lee, years ago, probably like seven years ago, I'd been training for years already to overcome the fear of public speaking.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:09:57Lewis Howes?

  And I'd been speaking for, I don't know, at this point, ten years professionally, and I'd made good money on stages and spoken in front of twenty thousand people. And I remember saying to him, I was like, gosh, I don't know why, but I still feel like, kinda scared and nervous.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:11Lewis Howes?

  Like, the day before I go on. And I don't know why, and I remember calling him like, hours before, and I go, I don't know why I'm still nervous. And a little afraid. And he said, because one of the things is you're afraid of how you're gonna look. You're afraid of like, being embarrassed, or not like, saying the right thing, or messing up. You're still afraid of that. As opposed to being of service to the audience, and knowing you're gonna mess, it's not gonna be perfect. And he put me through an exercise, like, well, like a what if, or what happens next exercise. Just go, okay, what if you, what if you forget your words? What if you forget that story? Then what?

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Then what? Then what?

• 1:10:45Lewis Howes?

  And you just go, then what?

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  I call that the choice after the choice. Then what?

• 1:10:48Lewis Howes?

  Well, then I'll be like, embarrassed. Well, then what? Well, then, uh, what's the worst could happen? Uh, I don't know, then I just walk offstage, and I forget the whole thing. And then what? And then, and he's, well, everyone laughs at me. Okay, and then what? And then I don't wanna come out for a week, because I'm so embar- and then what? And it's like, eventually, you, you're like, okay, I'm down here, and I I'll pick myself back up, and I'll be okay, and I'll, you know, I'll start again.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that that's sort of the point, like, the then what, then what, then what? We sort of have trained ourselves to think that it has to be, you know, that it, like I said, it's bimodal. I'm like, it's not bimodal. It's like, what will happen is, you'll discover the five choice after the choice. So think those through now.

• 1:11:25Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Because in there is comfort.

• 1:11:29Lewis Howes?

  That's so good, that's so good. What is the thing that you're most proud of? Most people don't know about you.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  What I'm most proud of career-wise, and then I think what I'm most proud of people know. What I'm most proud of career-wise is I have had a career of working with exceptionally talented people, where I feel like I got to be part of accelerating their journey. That is what I'm most proud of. Like, I'll look back on my life and say, regardless of the countries or what, I like, I just look, I'll say to people, "Do you know how amazing it is to work with tribes of great people who are by and large, great human beings as well?" And then be like, "Oh yeah, I will look at my journey and be like, I got to intersect with these amazing people and maybe for a few of them, or hopefully some meaningful number of them, I was an accelerant." So that's what I'm most proud of, kind of business-wise. What am I most proud of that people wouldn't know about me?

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Maybe that I think I wake up every day, both fully empowered and also pretty clear that I'm like, pretty far from the center of the universe. Like, I'm proud of the fact that I think that most people would think that I wake up thinking I sort of must rule the roost. And most days, I'm like, no, I wake up pretty empowered, but I, I'm really grounded and clear that, you know, life is a blessing. I'm here for a reason. I'm living my impact. The world is a much, much bigger place than just me. Yet I feel very stable within it. Like, I, I, like, I, I don't feel like many, I don't, nothing's gonna shake me. Yeah, because I have a sense for why I'm here and what I'm meant to do without thinking that it's all about me.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  So I, I'm proud of that. I'm proud of that, like, yeah.

• 1:13:04Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  I'm like, I'm good with it.

• 1:13:05Lewis Howes?

  That's great. The book is about risks, and you said, "Most things won't shake you." But when people take big risks, sometimes it shakes them a lot. What's the biggest myths around risk-taking that we tell ourselves?

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And by the way, of course, if you read the book, you'll know that many risks I took shook me, which is the whole reason for writing the book, because I'm like, "Oh, don't let it shake you. This is what happened to me." So I can't say I've never been shaken by risk. But I think I, I keep coming back to that singular point. Like, I know it sounds so simple, but it is the point of the entire freaking book. The book is about how, but the point of the book is about... You know, let go of this myth of the single choice. Stop believing that outcomes are binary, that risk and reward is a singular linear game. Like, hey, I take a big risk, I get a big reward. You know, or I have an epic fail. Like, it's just not like that.

• 1:14:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's either I win big or I lose it all.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Exactly. That is this bimodal issue. I think that is the biggest myth around risk-taking. And it's the whole reason I wrote the book. I'm like, you have to keep choosing. Stop overweighting the first choice. You know, if you are willing to keep choosing, there are, you know, a thousand, um, a thousand choices between you and success. And I cannot promise you that the success you'll get at the end is the one you originally thought. It may or may not be. But I can tell you that if you keep aiming for impact in every single choice, cumulatively, you will have an outsized career. And you will have an outsized life. Cumulatively. But if you want to measure yourself on every single choice, I can tell you that, you know, the people I know who succeed greatly are pretty freaking imperfect. They're master risk-takers,

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  as measured by small and big acts of possibility, right? As opposed to this one big act of possibility for which they're famous. Like, no, they roll by becoming a master at the process of risk-taking. And constantly choosing. They're just, right? They're very skilled at continuing to choose.

• 1:15:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I'm curious, do you believe that it's harder to go from zero to 10 million? Like, in startup, like, here's my idea. I'm launching a business, zero revenue coming into 10 million. Yeah. Or taking over a company from 100 million and taking it to a billion? Which one is harder and why?

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Interestingly, I think zero to 10 is actually hard.

• 1:15:24Lewis Howes?

  It's hard, right?

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  It's hard. It's hard. It's hard, my friend, because as we talked about, you're trying to find a central product market fit. You know, and so I think it's just really hard. And you know... When you have momentum, everybody wants to work with you, right? So things unlock fast. Like, creating momentum is really frigging hard. It takes so much energy. A venture capitalist who was on my board once described like, and I think he said it, he said it the best, I'm not going to do it justice. He said, when you're in a startup, you have like your hand on this like gigantic wheel and you're trying to turn it once, one big wheel to get momentum, right? One revolution of the wheel takes so much energy, right?

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  And then when you have like a bigger company and you have product market fit, it's like one revolution, first of all, you can get through one revolution very quickly and just like it creates, so like, and you have many, many more turns, each of which are producing more energy. Does that make sense?

• 1:16:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  So it's like, it's like trying to get that first revolution to create any momentum. Because if you can't even get the thing, the wheel to turn once,

• 1:16:28Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  There's no momentum or energy, like net energy output. But once you have energy in a system, then turning the wheel is easier. And every time you turn the wheel, more energy spits out, right? So.

• 1:16:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think Jim Collins, in good degree, I think calls that like the flywheel. It's like, just like, keep the flywheel going, like.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  You know, that's one of my favorite books. Is it one of your favorite books? I love that book. It's a classic.

• 1:16:49Lewis Howes?

  It's very like heady for me, but yeah, like.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Oh, really? It's very heady for you? Well, I'll tell you the part of it, just coming back to our previous conversation.

• 1:16:55Lewis Howes?

  It's a great book, though, but yeah.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  It's a great business book. I understand that it's a little very analytical, analytical for you. But come back to, there's a point he makes in that book, another point which we did, which I should have brought up, but I didn't. We were chatting about the choice after the choice, and the then what, and the then what, and the then what. You probably remember from the book, his story about Jim Stockdale, and the Vietnam War veteran who talked about like, who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam and ended up being, do you remember this story from the book?

• 1:17:19Lewis Howes?

  Tell me. Go ahead.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  He basically, like, Jim Stockdale, I think it's Stockdale, was decorated Vietnam veteran, prisoner of war, who helped send Morse codes out and get his whole, you know, cohort rescued when the war, you know, before the war ended. But he made the point that the people who were pure optimists were the first to get really depressed in camp. Because they thought they were being rescued tomorrow.

• 1:17:45Lewis Howes?

  Oh, someone's coming.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  Someone's coming every day. And then when they didn't come, they didn't know how to handle that failure. Right, that, right. So they got very depressed. And then there were other people who were like, nobody's ever coming. And they were also depressed. But he said the people who did best in the, you know, in the POW camp were really like realistic optimists. They understood that it was unlikely that somebody was coming next day. But they had faith that somebody was coming. Right? And so your job was to survive every day until somebody came.

• 1:18:11Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  So I love that mentality. I'm like, yes, you can be paranoid every day about what it takes to run your business and iterate and pivot and what have you, while having faith that if you like go through this process and keep doing it, you will survive and you will thrive. Right? So that's what I mean about being bimodal. You can be paranoid every day and be like, I have to iterate and I have to pivot, while still being fundamentally an optimist over the long term. But it's that ability to pivot that actually makes you the optimist, right? It's not like if you go into it being like, everything's going to be perfect. Everything's going to be perfect or everything's going to be terrible. I'm like, no, no. You need to be a long-term optimist and a short-term like realist.

• 1:18:46Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. What's a question you wish more people asked you that don't ask?

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  I think most people ask me, Sue Kinder, what would you do? Let's say we're in a league, like, Sue Kinder, what would you do? And I think most people should ask me like, you know, what do you think I should do, given who I am?

• 1:19:00Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  Right? Everybody comes to a leader and they want the answer. And I think I would love more people to say to me like, okay, it's not about what I would do. It's about like, here's who I am. Here's my goal set. Here's my vision. What do you, you know, given this?

• 1:19:15Lewis Howes?

  Based on that, here's what is the best solution.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's your insight? Because I think, you know, like it's not about me giving somebody an answer, right? It's about like, I want to know like, who are you? And what do you think the answer is? What's your thesis to which I can respond and try and give you some insight that fits with who you are and what you want and what you believe, where you have conviction? So mostly I think that people should ask me that question. So I'm like, what would you do? It's not about what I would do, it's about what would you do?

• 1:19:39Lewis Howes?

  When I call you, I may should ask that question.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  You'd be like, so Kendra, here's what I'm thinking.

• 1:19:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  You know, what do you think?

• 1:19:45Lewis Howes?

  Here's my unique gifts.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Here's my thesis. What do you think I should do, given that information? I'd be like, oh, okay, well, this is what I would reflect to you.

• 1:19:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  And don't get me wrong, you know, the problem is if you ask me like, what should I do? Like, I'm gonna give you a straight up answer, then you're gonna think that that's what you should do. And like, that's not always the right answer, right?

• 1:20:01Lewis Howes?

  Maybe it is, but it's...

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but like, you know, it's the wrong question.

• 1:20:05Lewis Howes?

  And then if you're taking action based on someone else, what someone else would choose to do, it might ruin the whole thing, or it might not go in the right direction.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  I think we like go through the world, asking people who know us, like, what would you do? They might be like, well, here's my reflections.

• 1:20:18Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  What do you know about me? What do you think I should do, given my own awareness? And like, what do you think? What am I missing about, you know, in this equation, about who I am in this situation? And most people probably have a better reflection for you, based on who you are, and your unique gifts.

• 1:20:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  Right, and capabilities and capacity. But you have to show some self-awareness first.

• 1:20:35Lewis Howes?

  You gotta be self-aware. I'm excited about your book, Choose Possibility: Take Risks and Thrive Even When You Fail. And I think a lot of people, it's hard for people to like, have this mindset of failing. But I've always been told that failure is just feedback, as an athlete.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:49Lewis Howes?

  I failed every day in practice and games. It's like, you never made 100% of your shots. You never caught the ball 100% of the time. And it's like, okay, that's information, how do I use that to become better?

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:59Lewis Howes?

  And not get down on myself, but to improve myself. And so failure's always been a part of my life, because it teaches me something.

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:07Lewis Howes?

  So take risks and thrive even when you fail. But I think that a lot of people are just afraid to take the risk, because they don't wanna fail. They don't wanna have that, even a micro failure, it's like, wow.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't think they think of, I mean, look, I think there, I think there's a couple of things are going on. First of all, if you're an athlete, or you're, let's say, in a startup, or what have you, you're used to this idea that iterating, every iteration is feedback, right? And a feedback loop. You're also used to probabilities. You know that... In baseball, a 300 batting average is actually amazing.

• 1:21:37Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  Right? Whereas in the NBA, it might be, I don't know, maybe the top shooters are 76% or whatever. I mean, it depends like what the, you know, from the field or what have you, position, right? Or you might know that if you're a trader or a hedge fund manager, but you know that it's a game of probabilities.

• 1:21:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  So why do we tell ourselves it's like one shot? Like, why do we think a winning season is like one shot? And then we put all of the weight on that choice. I, you know, it's so, I think that is actually set like the key for all of us. It's, it's that risk-taking is a muscle. It can be developed. The book is more about the how than the what, but it's both. It's like, yes, this is the principle, but I think when people say like have a growth mindset, I think people need tactics. They need a structure, they need tools. So hopefully the book gives you some of that. Um, but yeah, it's always amazing to me. I'm like, we don't think in probabilities of our own life, right? We think that every single choice is the one that makes or breaks us.

• 1:22:27Lewis Howes?

  Right. That's not true.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  That's not true. Isn't it? It should be freeing for people to know there are many shots on goal.

• 1:22:34Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. Many shots on goal. Yeah, you've got a lot of different like equations in here and different examples.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Frameworks.

• 1:22:39Lewis Howes?

  So yeah, it's really cool.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  I know, maybe it's a little too heady for you.

• 1:22:42Lewis Howes?

  No, it's all right. I'm always impressed when people can do like frameworks and equations and formulas and make it map it out because I never know how to explain it and position it that way. I'm always just like, well, this is how I do it. I don't know. But like when someone could do this, I really appreciate it. Uh, even like the self-awareness sandwich, you know, it's like the framework, it's okay. I would just try to like explain it in my mind, well, this is how I feel. But you like put it into, into like a diagram, you know? It's like, okay, that makes more sense. So I'm always appreciative of this. Um, people should get the book. It's called Choose Possibility, Take Risks and Thrive Even When You Fail. So Kendra, I want to acknowledge you for a moment. I've got a couple of final questions for you.

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:23:20Lewis Howes?

  But I want to acknowledge you, Sukhinder, for your vulnerability and your unique gifts. It's, it's, um, it's really been a pleasure to connect with you and to hear your stories and hear your connection to your gifts, the lessons from your father, the lessons from your experiences as an executive at a high level, being a female executive and founder, the mindset around wealth, which I think a lot of people are afraid of. So I acknowledge you for opening up, for sharing, for

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:23:46Lewis Howes?

  being real. And I think we were able to create something inspiring today. So I really acknowledge you for your gift and hopefully we can stay connected and I can help in any way possible. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end called the three truths. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario. It's your last day on earth, many years away.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:04Lewis Howes?

  Live as long as you want, but eventually you gotta, you gotta go to the next place.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  You gotta go. Yeah, we talked about this. We're all gonna go. Yeah.

• 1:24:09Lewis Howes?

  And for whatever reason, you've accomplished all your greatest dreams. Everything you want to accomplish has happened, personally, professionally, everything. But you've gotta take your work with you.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:19Lewis Howes?

  The book, this message, all your conversations gotta go somewhere else.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:23Lewis Howes?

  Whether with you or not here on this earth. So no one has access to your information anymore.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:28Lewis Howes?

  But you have a piece of paper and a pen and you get to write down the three biggest lessons you've learned from your life that you would leave behind. And this is all we would have to remember you by. I call it the three truths.

• 1:24:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:24:40Lewis Howes?

  What would you say are yours?

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Number one, possibility lives and acts big and small, for sure. So, um, and I always, I always say to people, you don't know if you don't try, right? So that is like, it's just embodied, I think, that like, just remember possibilities and acts big and small. So like, get started now. You'll never know if you don't try. I think that's one. I think, uh, I think number two, I would say, I'd say we're all here, you know, we're all, we're all here to maximize our gifts and have impact. So discover yours. And I'd say number three, and maybe this is unique to me, given how I was raised, I was like, put it in perspective, you know? It'll all be okay. We're all here. We're all here as part of something much bigger. You know? You're loved, you're seen, regardless of what happens, you will be okay.

• 1:25:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. That's cool.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:28Lewis Howes?

  That's a good truth. I'm curious, um, not to get too emotional here, but what do you think your father would say if he saw you now of everything you've created in the last couple of decades?

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  First of all, I think he would say, remember that like, all that you've been given is like a gift. Like, just remember that. Remember where it comes from, like... You know, of course, he would acknowledge it and acknowledge my, you know, uh, things I've achieved, but mostly I think he would acknowledge the universe and he would be like, you know, like, I, I think, I think he would just say, you know, feel grateful, feel grateful and understand where it all comes from.

• 1:26:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  So, of course, he would make me feel great, but he would also, he would also remind me, which I'm very clear on. Like, I feel just grateful for my, you know, for everything I've been given.

• 1:26:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah. Gratitude is key for sure. Uh, final question before I ask, I want to make sure everyone gets the book, Choose Possibility, where can they go? Uh, Suh Kinder Singh on Twitter. You're not on Instagram. I tried to look for you.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  Oh, I hide on Instagram. You know why? It's just another, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm most present on LinkedIn and Twitter. I do have an Instagram account. I never post. I just follow because it's just another place to be responsible, right? And like in a world where like, that's where I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's like one more thing to like take care of and my life is so full right now.

• 1:26:52Lewis Howes?

  I know. So Twitter or LinkedIn? Okay. Choosepossibility.com, we can get information there. Is there a personal website for you as well?

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  You know, my personal website is a book website. I don't have a website, but the best and most active place to find me is LinkedIn.

• 1:27:04Lewis Howes?

  LinkedIn.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's where you can just find me at @suhkinder singh. You can find me at, um, you can, actually on LinkedIn, it might be @suhkinder singh kasty.

• 1:27:11Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:27:12Speaker 01

  I guarantee if you put my name in the LinkedIn, you're gonna come up on my handle and you can follow me there. You can certainly follow me on Twitter. Uh, most importantly, you can buy the book wherever you want to buy books. Like, wherever you buy them, there's an audiobook, Amazon, all the usual places.

• 1:27:25Lewis Howes?

  Inspiring stories, inspiring frameworks, lessons. I love it all. Final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  It's what we talked about earlier. I think it's people who not only, um, create impact in their own lives, but they create impact and possibility for others. Power flow, my friends. Like, if you want to be great, like, you know, stop just generating possibility for yourself or stop thinking of it as like, I have more possibility, you have less. If you have possibility, your opportunity is to generate it for other people, right? So that's, that's greatness.

• 1:27:55Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much. Appreciate you very much. Appreciate it. Amazing. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, make sure to share this with a friend, someone that you think would be inspired by this as well, or you can post this over on social media. Just copy and paste the link, lewishouse.com/1150, or whatever link you're listening to on your podcast platform of choice. Just share that over on your stories or on social media and make sure to tag me as well over there. I'm at Lewis Howes. And again, make sure to click the subscribe button right now over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review as well of the part you enjoyed the most about this episode. And I want to leave you with this quote from James Cameron, who said, "There are many talented people who haven't fulfilled their dreams because they overthought it, or they were too cautious,

• 1:28:40Lewis Howes?

  or were unwilling to make the leap of faith." I want to make sure that you are willing to overcome that insecurity, that doubt, that fear that holds you back from going after or pursuing the thing that you were called to do. Whatever that thing is inside of you right now, go do that thing. I don't care if you take baby steps or big leaps going after it, but just moving in the direction. It's going to make you feel more alive, make you feel more confident, make you feel more aligned to your greater purpose right now in your life. I hope you enjoyed this episode and I want to remind you of no one's told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.