971 Les Brown: How to Defeat a Negative Mindset and Why You Were Born to WIN

"Someone’s opinion of you does not have to become your reality."Lewis chats with motivational speaking icon Les Brown to discuss how to define your own reality, why mental resolve is the most important skill there is, and how to use difficult moments as opportunities for growth. Les also recounts impactful stories from his childhood that helped inform his beliefs on racial injustice in America.-For more: lewishowes.com/971-Mel Robbins shares the secret mindset habits to build confidence: lewishowes.com/970-Lisa Nichols on the key to abundance and success: https://lewishowes.com/podcast/lisa-nichols/ Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 971 with one of the most inspirational speakers in the world, Les Brown.

• 0:09Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:35Lewis Howes?

  Mark Twain once said, "The secret of getting ahead is getting started." And Bob Marley said, "The greatness of a man is not how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively." My guest today personifies greatness for his integrity and the positive impact he's had in the world. When I first sat down with motivational speaking icon Les Brown back in 2017, I was blown away by his attitude towards life. I felt like I had so much more to ask him, and I'm fortunate I got another chance with him today to sit down and interview him on his unique perspective and in this unique moment of the world.

• 1:19Lewis Howes?

  Now, Les is also out with a new book called, "You've Gotta Be Hungry," which distills everything he's learned over the past four decades about finding your inner greatness. And we have such incredible brands that match and align, make sure you go pick up a copy of his book today. And in this interview, we talk about how Les's childhood informed his outlook on racial injustice in America, the teacher who empowered Les to see himself in a positive light as opposed to the negative light he saw himself, why mental resolve is the most essential skill there is, how to overcome the perception of others and create a perception for yourself. This was big, and I think this is going to be a huge teaching moment for so many people

• 2:02Lewis Howes?

  listening, how to overcome the perception of others and create a perception of yourself. And if you're finding value in Les's wisdom, make sure to share this with someone who needs to hear it. And without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Les Brown.

• 2:22Lewis Howes?

  Les Brown is in the house, the school of greatness, my friend who has been around for 75 years young, who you told me just before we got on here, you've been fighting cancer for 27 years. You've been widely known as one of the most inspirational motivational speakers in the world, helping Fortune 500 companies to small business owners to everyone in between, really tap into their greatness. You're an inspiration to myself and so many people. And you've got a book called You've Got to Be Hungry, that's out right now that is doing incredibly well, and it's 20 years in the making. And I'm curious, we've been talking just before this, which we'll add in the interview, about racial injustice,

• 3:05Lewis Howes?

  which you've been a big proponent of speaking out against for many years, at your time working in Ohio, in government, and your time working in radio, as a speaker, as all these different areas of your life. But you've just been through a lot personally of challenges in your life, from, you know, we have a similar story of growing up dyslexic with learning disabilities, with challenges in school. I remember the story you shared in our last interview in 2017 about, you know, teachers just calling you dumb and things like this. I feel very connected to that story because of my experiences in school. And yet you've overcome so many challenges in your 75 young years. Can you share the biggest challenge

• 3:50Lewis Howes?

  you've had to overcome?

• 3:51Les Brown?

  The biggest challenge I had to overcome, and it's a continuous challenge, is allowing myself to see myself beyond my circumstances and mental conditioning, to live out of my imagination rather than my history. When you are raised in a culture that, that constantly demean you, marginalize you, and stifle your potential to move forward. I remember reading a quote by a guy named Richard Wright, who said, "The impulse to dream has been slowly beaten out of me through the experiences of life." So just imagine in 1963, when I graduated

• 4:36Les Brown?

  from high school, that's, you know, that, that's a long time ago. My grandson said, "Grandpa, how old are you?" And I said, "75." He said, "You are old."

• 4:50Les Brown?

  Nineteen six, in nineteen sixty-three, here's what the statistics were in nineteen sixty-three. That if you're an African-American, you're the last hire and the first fired. If you're an African-American, that a white college-trained black person has less of a chance of getting a job than a white high school dropout. That's in nineteen sixty-three. According to the Federal Reserve, that still exists. So, so just imagine when an African-American graduates from college and in debt, that a white high school dropout today will earn more money,

• 5:34Les Brown?

  three times more money than that white college, than that black college graduate. Three times more, all right? Why? Because of this paint job. I'll never forget, Louis, I saw an interview with Larry King, and this white supremacist was being interviewed. And he said, "Tell me, why do you, why do you hate black people?" He said, "Because they're black." So, and he said, "And?" He said, "And I'm white." So Larry said, "What did you have to do with that?" And, and this white supremacist said, "What?" He said, "What did you have to do with your being born white?" And he didn't have an answer.

• 6:19Les Brown?

  He just got quiet. And, and Larry, in that question, that strategic question, it created an aha moment, hopefully, for that young man. I saw this video yesterday, this lady said, "I've got grandchildren. I hate y'all, and I'm teaching my grandchildren to hate you too." Wow. Yes, and I'll never forget when I was on a bus coming back from Miami Beach with my mother, and they had signs on Miami Beach that said, "Jews, dogs, and colors not allowed."

• 6:57Les Brown?

  And, and so I asked my mother, I said, Mama, why do they hate us so much? And she said, Leslie, I don't know, but don't you ever be like them. Don't you ever be like them. God is love and he who dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in them. You love people regardless of how they treat you. And that is always good in my life. That is, that, that, that grabbed me because when she, she could have very easily, because of the experiences that she'd had that taught me to be hateful. Because hatred is taught, it's people not born with that.

• 7:37Les Brown?

  And the, a little boy asked me, a second grader, what do you mean by you gotta be hungry? I said, the greatness within to win. I said, when the average person start out in life, don't realize the odds are stacked against them. And you have got to call on everything in you to get ahead. I said, how old are you? He said, seven. I said, when I was five years old, I was downtown Miami and it was like 95 degrees. And I ran to a water fountain. I was with my mother.

• 8:18Les Brown?

  The neighbor said, Mamie, we can watch the other six, but you're gonna have to take Leslie with you because he's a little touched at the head.

• 8:28Les Brown?

  They didn't want to keep me. So I let my mother's dress go. She, I would hold, we, we went downtown with her. We would hold her dress because she would walk real fast. And I ran up to this water fountain, Louis, and I started drinking water from it. And my mother said, don't you ever do that again. Grab me by the neck. And I, I talk about this in the book. And she started punching me and, and in the face and the head. And I was shocked. I said, Mama. She had this crazed look in her eyes. I said, it's me, it's, it's me, Mama. And all of a sudden, a white police officer came by and he said, okay. He had a billy club in his hand. You can stop beating that little nigger boy now. I won't have to beat him.

• 9:11Les Brown?

  And he looked at me as I was crying and just laughed. Wow. As he walked away. And my mother, she grabbed me and I was crying and she said, Leslie, I'm so sorry. But when I saw the redness in his face and how he had his billy club out and he was coming to beat you with it, she said, I had to do something to distract him. She said, because had he hit you with that billy club, he would have had to kill me. And I'd left you and your brothers and sisters to fend for yourselves. You have no relatives. And at that moment, five, I knew that there was two worlds.

• 9:55Les Brown?

  I was in a world where I was limited, where I could, what water fountain I could drink from, when we got on the bus, there were these seats up front and there was be a yellow line and there were standing room in the back where, where black people were seated. And, and mama would say, keep moving. I said, Mama, there are seats up here. Did you hear me say, keep moving, keep moving? So when you are in that kind of environment, where you are judged based upon nothing other than the color of your skin, that's very humiliating.

• 10:34Les Brown?

  I had another experience that it just, that really tilted the scale for me being the person that I am. And because I, I, I love my mother, I'm a mama's boy. I always say, this is the Mrs. Mamie Brown's baby boy. And, and so I was determined that I was going to create a world that my mother could live in and not be humiliated and not be held back and, and a better life than she had lived in Stuart, Florida and, and what I experienced coming up in Miami, being African American.

• 11:17Les Brown?

  There were so many things, it was just a part of the culture, things that exist now. But to believe and understand. That it's it's going on now is it's surprising, but what is heartwarming is the broad scale support. Something Benjamin Franklin said, he said, change will never come about until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are. Wow. Okay, and so you have white people who are unaffected by this, but they're outraged.

• 11:58Les Brown?

  They're saying, hey, this is not right. And they're putting themselves in harm's way. I saw one white lady, they shot her with rubber bullets and and and she lost her eye. She's permanently blind and one eye. And and so there have been places where the white turnout and other groups are very strong, but people are out of a sense of humanity, saying, this is not America. And and it's been sustained because the people can see it. And to to see George Floyd have his life taken away. The the guy who did that, one

• 12:42Les Brown?

  of the guys who was in the in right there near him where he could have said to the cop that was on George Floyd, come on, man, come on, he say can't breathe. Come on, let's it's four of us. He's handcuffed. He can't get away from us. Come on, get, you know, get your knee off his neck. He didn't do this. So this lady saw one of the guys in the grocery store who was charged with complicity. And and she said, do you have any regrets? He said, no. Wow. No. So so therefore.

• 13:19Les Brown?

  He, he thought it was okay to take this guy's life for a twenty dollar counterfeit bill. That they found not to be counterfeit.

• 13:32Les Brown?

  You know, so to lose your life and someone say, when you are asked, do you have any regrets? And you say, no. Man, let me tell you something, that's heavy, that, that says a lot.

• 13:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, do you feel like there is, you know, we haven't really progressed that much at all? Or is there?

• 13:53Les Brown?

  No, I think there's been great progress, there's no question about that, no question. And the, that you just have people who, that, that, this is for the first time under this leadership that we have, feel comfortable coming out, there are people that this, this level of hatred has been instilled in, and, and passed on generation after generation after generation. What makes it seem so pervasive and so dominant has been the exposure, it's never been exposed like this. The internet, that's why North Korea and various dictatorships don't allow media to have the right

• 14:38Les Brown?

  to expose things, the inequities and the unlawful behavior in their country, including our country. This, had it not been for the internet, we would not know about this. Because the television executives had a meeting after the Rodney King riots and say, when something like this happens again, we will not show it. We will just report it. Okay, so, but the internet, because of the telephones, now, these cops have been getting away with murder. They can't just get away with it, although even when they go to court, they ninety three, ninety three point nine percent get off, never go to court.

• 15:21Les Brown?

  And of those who don't do go to court, I mean, who are indicted, never are charged and sentenced, maybe around two percent are sentenced and found guilty. Because the judge and the prosecuting attorney.

• 15:40Les Brown?

  It's on the side of that officer. So it's, it's

• 15:45Lewis Howes?

  Well, I feel like they can always make it, they can always make a case, I guess, for, well, he was attacking me and this is in the the law and how we can defend ourselves as police, right?

• 15:54Les Brown?

  When they asked, when they asked the cops, why did you beat this guy that, that I? I said, this man served our country in Vietnam. He should not be treated like that. He was holding a baby. And they said, he was fighting with one hand. And, okay, come on. I've, I've, I've, when I was on the air, and this is in the eighties, I editorialized against police brutality and deadly use of force. They said, he, he had a, he had a threatening stance. So, so I shot him. One guy, I'll never forget. He was in the car and police approached the car and they shot him five times. And they said, he held his hand up. Even though they, he didn't see a gun, but he moved his finger and he thought that

• 16:39Les Brown?

  he, he had a gun. And so they killed him and they got off with it. So the, they, they couldn't come up with any type of flimsy excuse. I thought my life was in danger. Like the guy here in Atlanta was shot five times in the back and they said that thought he was going to turn around and shoot with a taser. And, and the, and the truth of the matter is that cop was mad because his taser was taken away from him. So he, he pumped five bullets in him. So, no, no, no, there will not be a trial here. This is taking place now. And so that level of madness and lack of value for human life.

• 17:22Les Brown?

  It's, it's deep in the culture.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  But you, how did you personally? Yeah. And how did you personally overcome so much from? Racism as a young child and when your mother essentially had to beat the crap out of you in order to defend you from the police beating you up even more to, you know, not being able to sit anywhere on the bus that you wanted to go on to just having the challenges at school to your career. How did you personally learn the skills to overcome so many challenges in the world, in your internal mind and world and in life?

• 18:05Les Brown?

  You know, when I, the title of the book, You've Gotta Be Hungry, The Greatness Within To Win. Greatness comes out of adversity. And the defining moment for me was when my mother was working for a lady named Ms. Harris. I was responsible for cleaning some spots off the floor. My mother was called by Ms. Harris. She said, Mamie, I want you to go in another room and find a hat that I'm looking for, the one I had three seasons ago. And when my mother went in that room, I heard a slapping sound. I heard my mother clapping her hands. And I said, Mama, I was curious. I said, Why are you clapping your hands?

• 18:46Les Brown?

  She said, Don't you worry, Leslie. You just keep on doing what you're doing and get those spots up off the floor. Then she came out of the room and she said, Ms. Harris, I don't see it in there. So she said, Well, go in this other room. And Mama went in the other room and sure enough, she started clapping her hands again. And I said, Mama. She said, What? She was aggravated now. I said, Why are you clapping your hands? She said, Didn't I tell you to do what you're supposed to do? And at that moment, Ms. Harris came over and she stood over me. She said, I can tell you why she's clapping her hands. And I stood up and I looked in the eyes. And during this time, as a black person, you were not allowed to look white people in the eyes. You should always look down, okay? Or you could be arrested

• 19:31Les Brown?

  or beaten. So I looked her in the eyes. And she said, The reason that I have your mother clapping her hands, when I have colored people working for me, and I can't see them when they go in another room, I make them clap their hands to make sure they're not stealing.

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 19:50Les Brown?

  I said, Ma'am. I said, Ms. Harris, let me tell you something. My mother does not steal. When she talk about you and your family, she say, I work for Ms. Harris, and she talk about our children, and she knows all your children's names and their birthday. My mother is an honest person. She'll never steal from you or anybody. And she was so shocked. And she just looked at me, and she just turned and walked out of the room. And when I got back down on that floor, Lewis, and start scrubbing that floor, I said, nobody will never make my mother clap her hands again, because they think that she's will be stealing.

• 20:34Les Brown?

  I remember going back on the bus, and I was quiet, and she said, Leslie, why you so quiet? I said, because I'm not a man. I want to be a man. She said, you'll be a man soon enough. You're ten years old. How long before I become a man? Eight years. I want to become a man now. She said, why? I said, if I was a man now, Mama, I can buy groceries for us. Listen, Mama, and, and, and we won't have to wait till the people you work for eat and then give us leftovers. If I was a man now, I, I would not have to wait until somebody's worn clothes for a year, and we wear their hand-me-down clothes. And if I was a man now, nobody will ever make you clap your hands, because they think that you're stealing.

• 21:18Les Brown?

  She said, Ms. Harris told you that, didn't she? I said, yes, ma'am. That's why I want to be a man now. And she just got quiet. She said, Leslie, don't worry about it. Just be a good boy. And I said, I will, Mama. I'm gonna take care of you. You'll never have to work again when I turn eighteen. When I turned eighteen, I took care of my mother until she passed at eighty-nine. She never paid enough of the bill. I worked, yeah. That tilt the scales.

• 21:45Lewis Howes?

  That experience, that moment.

• 21:46Les Brown?

  Yes, yes, that, to, to make her. She was such a wonderful person. Only had a third-grade education. And I always say, I'm on programs, I said, because of two women. One gave me life, the other one gave me love. God took me out of my biological mother's womb and placed me in the heart of my adopted mother. So she was quite a woman. Yes, she was. I'm a mama's boy, as you can detect.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  What do you think has been the greatest skill you've developed over the years? Is it the ability to overcome adversity? Is it the ability to use your words? What is that skill you think that you possess has given you so much greatness?

• 22:30Les Brown?

  I think it's a combination of both. One, mental resolve. I think that everybody needs that because when you have goals and dreams, there will be resistance. An airplane cannot fly without the resistance of air. Walt Disney filed bankruptcy seven times and had two nervous breakdowns. That when you have goals and dreams, the book of life says, "Think it not strange that you face the fiery furnaces of this world." You will, not you might, you will have tribulations. So, the ability, when you are faced with something, and it's new territory, when they said, "You have cancer." Those are three words no one ever want to hear.

• 23:12Les Brown?

  And the oncologist, Dr. Alfred Goldson, who was an unusual personality, he said, "You have cancer and it's metastasized to seven areas of your body, including your spinal cord." I said, "Can you give me a second opinion?" He said, "Yeah, and you're ugly too."

• 23:32Les Brown?

  I know you just called me ugly. He said, "Yes, I did. You ugly as well." We both were laughing. He said, "But you got this. We determine the diagnosis. God and you determines the prognosis. You and God determine that. You got this." What I learned from that that enhanced my speaking. When you laugh, the mind shuts down and the heart opens up. I left there with a confident feeling in my heart. I got this. When he spoke it, I felt it at this cellular level. I did not leave there feeling fear. And so, would like...

• 24:19Les Brown?

  The ability to communicate, he was so good, making you feel comfortable with whatever you're dealing with, that you are not in denial, you just are defiant. And so, when your show, which has changed millions of people's lives, people you'd never meet, what it does is distract, dispute, and inspire. How we live our lives is a result of the story we believe about ourselves. What you do is distract them from what psychologists call their self-explanatory style. And, and through the process of your own example, your own vision of yourself, the guests that

• 25:02Les Brown?

  you have, the interviews that you have, you dismantle their current belief system. Be not conformed to this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. You renewing minds, expanding their vision beyond their indoctrination and mental conditioning. And you ignite their spirit, where they decide to create a new chapter in their lives. That's, that's, that's what you do as a speaker and as a host, and, and people who watch and listen to your program. Right now, in America, before the coronavirus, suicide rate increased by thirty-nine percent. And children between five and eleven, it has tripled. How do you decide at five to take your life?

• 25:47Les Brown?

  And now, it is, it is, is, is soaring, the suicide rate. So, what you do with this program, you're giving people hope. When there's hope in the future, that gives a person power in the present, that, that they can, they can get through it. They might not know how they're going to do it. But, they have the mindset, Robert Shuler said, "Tough times never last, but tough people do." And, and so, that you, you, you share with them a voice of transformation because, and I share this with speakers that I train, who you are behind the words that you speak

• 26:31Les Brown?

  are more important than the words. Because had you not gone through what you have gone through and experienced...

• 26:42Les Brown?

  You would not be able to speak from a place of power. You would not be able to come in and do this, this program and then call this the, the school of greatness. That you've got greatness in you. You have the ability to do more than you can ever begin to imagine. And then affirm and validate people as we are facing this pandemic. It's, it's to, to be able to say that from a place of power. The spirit of who you are comes through your words. And people feel that when you speak and they hear it. Your sincerity, your genuineness. And that's why your program is popular because you impact people because you know a thing or two because you've seen a thing or two.

• 27:28Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate that, Les.

• 27:30Les Brown?

  Yes.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's interesting you talk about suicide rates increasing. Unfortunately, I was, again, I was going on a drive to San Francisco over the weekend. Uh, taking my girlfriend up the coast of California and she'd never seen it. Had a beautiful experience and as we're driving back into Los Angeles. Drive, I, I live in a condo building, a tall condo building. It's probably thirty-five, forty stories high. And as we pull into the, the building, I'm about to park. I see police with a yellow tape and a white tent. Uh, and over the kind of driving area. And I remember just thinking to myself, there's no way someone jumped off this building. There's no way someone did this.

• 28:16Lewis Howes?

  And I asked right away, I go, tell me someone did not jump. And the guy looked at me and he just said, yeah, a couple of hours ago. And I go, you're kidding me? And I later found out it was reported in the news. This was yesterday.

• 28:29Les Brown?

  Yesterday?

• 28:30Lewis Howes?

  Yesterday. This just happened. It was, it kind of shook me up a little bit too. And literally I, I learned that the person who jumped is my building. It was literally right next to my window, a few floors up. He jumped out of, his name is Steve Bing. It's all over the news right now. And this was a very successful businessman who fifty, fifty-five years old, I think. Um, worth, I think it was reported he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars. A very successful businessman who was close friends with, uh, Bill Clinton, who I saw Clinton made a statement about as well. And it, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since yesterday. I was thinking about it all night.

• 29:12Lewis Howes?

  You said it was hard for you to sleep last night from the stuff you saw. For me, it was hard for me to sleep last night. Thinking about the pain and the suffering that people go through inside that we may never know about. And, you know, I was trying to rationalize, like, why would this happen? Was it drugs? Was it depression? Was it, like, I can't reason sometimes why this happens to someone who you think it would never happen to, or someone who had all the things on the outside that seemed to be successful. But for whatever reason, I don't know. And I don't know how to make sense of that type of stuff. Do you know how to make sense of things when you see that?

• 29:50Les Brown?

  Well, the, I had a guy, he wrote me, and, and I, I kept this, this text where he had, or he had tied a, a noose together. He was going to hang himself, had it around his neck. And, and he was going to get a chair. He was trying to look a place where he could suspend himself and, and place the rope. And the phone rang. And he had said to himself, "God, give me a sign." So with the rope around his neck and holding in one, in part of it in his head, he answered his cell phone and there was nobody there.

• 30:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 30:29Les Brown?

  And he took that as a sign and he said, in that moment, he, uh, he was listening to me and he remembered a statement I made that "life is God's gift to us and how we live our lives is our gift to God."

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:47Les Brown?

  He asked himself, "Why would I throw my life back in God's face?"

• 30:55Les Brown?

  I was talking about the fact that we were chosen, one out of 400 million sperm, that you are a masterpiece because you're a piece of the master. And he said, "I kept saying to myself, 'I'm a masterpiece. I'm a piece of the master.'" And he talked himself back from those suicidal thoughts. He really didn't want to die. He wanted to stop the pain that he was experiencing from the breakup of the relationship, from the loss of his job, from what he felt his life had the rug snatched out from under it. He's among those forty million, five hundred thousand people who've lost their jobs in the coronavirus economy.

• 31:38Les Brown?

  And so, that's why what you're doing is so important because when you go through an experience, you have the school of greatness. Not elementary school, high school, college. No one is saying to people, "You have greatness in you." And those type of structures, even in church. And so, the reason that I advance with that, you know, the Book of Life says, "Greater is he that's in you than he that's in the world." That you have greatness within you. That when I, Mr. Leroy Washington,

• 32:20Les Brown?

  who, when I was so captivated by this man's oratorical skills. He was a speech and drama teacher. And he asked me to do something, you know the story. He wanted me to go before him and read a script, really, before the class. And I said, "Sir, I can't do that. I'm not one of your students." And he said, "Do what I'm asking you to do anyhow." I said, "I can't, sir." And he, and the other students started laughing, saying, "He's Leslie. He's got a twin brother Wesley. Wesley is smart. He's DT." And he asked, "What's DT?" He's the dumb one. And I said, "I am, sir." He said, "Don't you ever say that again. Someone's opinion of you does not have to become your reality."

• 33:03Les Brown?

  And he did that. I was startled. Because my mother said, "Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you, but words can hurt you, and very deeply." And when he said that, "Someone's opinion of you does not have to become your reality." I remember going to my next class, and it was between classes. I kept saying that to myself. "Someone's opinion of you does not have to become your reality." As I was going home, and what they think about me... I don't have to be that. It's not what they called me. It's what I answer to and what I call myself.

• 33:45Lewis Howes?

  Dang.

• 33:47Les Brown?

  You know, that was an interrupting moment.

• 33:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:51Les Brown?

  That's why you, the program is, it's a disruptor, more powerful than Corona.

• 33:57Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, I always love, I always love hearing that story. That story never gets old for me. And how did you learn to overcome the opinions of others, but I think more importantly, the opinion of yourself? Because if we have the program, we have, I am the dumb twin. Yes, sir. I am learning disabilities. I am this. How did you personally overcome your own biggest enemy?

• 34:22Les Brown?

  He was a voraciously reader and he gave me a book, James Allen, As a Man Think It. That little pamphlet is a powerful little pamphlet. I've read it a lot. And The Power of Positive Thinking by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale. I read that over and over again and other motivational books, The Secret of the Ages by Robert Caltia. And so, reading those, he said, if you want to become successful, number one, develop your mind. And he was a fan of Earl Nightingale, that you don't get in life what you want, you get in life what you are. The strangest secret in the world. I've listened to that so many times, I've worn it out.

• 35:04Les Brown?

  And, and then the other thing he said, develop your mind. Next thing he said, practice OQP. Only quality people. Surround yourself with people that you can learn from. People that have more than you. People that will help you to grow mentally and emotionally and financially and spiritually. And the next thing he said, he said, which is the master key to opening up new worlds for you, is your ability to communicate. Because once you open your mouth, you tell the world who you are. And I, I, I believed him and I followed that. I would, I never forget that, that when I was in Poland and I was in this stadium and

• 35:50Les Brown?

  And I saw my name up and people started chanting when they saw me coming through the tunnel. And I said, Mr. Washington, this one is for you, sir. You know, he's gone. I eulogized him. I said, I'm gonna make you proud today because it was my first time in Poland, you know. And, and so, but I, I so admired him. I've never known my father or birth mother, but that, the ability to, to, to connect with people that are strangers to you and, and can create a shift in their, their lives and how they see themselves.

• 36:31Les Brown?

  To have that sacred opportunity to share your story and distract, dispute and inspire them to, to realize as a played Lion King, Simba, you are more than that which you have become. That's what you do every day up in here, up in here.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  What, I, I love this. I remember last time we talked, you said you wanted to really leave a legacy by teaching other people how to speak and communicate better. And you were creating a select, smaller group, I think. I think it was either fifty or a hundred people that you wanted to train and speak. Are you still doing that? Cause I had a friend.

• 37:11Les Brown?

  Yes.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  Who was going through the program with you or hired you, uh, my, my buddy Judd. So I didn't know.

• 37:16Les Brown?

  Oh, I know Judd. That's my dude. That's my brother from another mother.

• 37:20Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 37:21Les Brown?

  Yes, man, from Australia. Yeah. Yes, I'm, I'm training, but I'm, I've had to increase that number. I, I do intense one-on-one training, but I'm selective about working with a lot of people right now. But we do it virtually now. I can do it more virtually.

• 37:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:38Les Brown?

  Because we don't, you don't want, I'm, you know, I'm seventy-five. So I cannot afford with, with underlying issues of, of diabetes and cancer. And seventy-five, if you show up at the hospital, they'll, they'll push you to the code over there and say, no, you about to leave here anyhow. So we're not gonna waste any medicine on you.

• 38:03Les Brown?

  So I'm standing on harm's way. I'll tell you how bad it is, Louis. I'm upstairs by myself, right? I sneeze. And man, I broke out and I started running downstairs. I said, wait a minute. That was my sneeze. So I came back upstairs and I still started spraying the lice off.

• 38:25Les Brown?

  I called my daughter. I said, I think I'm having a meltdown. I want to go out the house. She said, no, you can't go anywhere other than Walgreen and, and Publix and we will drive you there. You don't need to be behind the wheel. I said, I'm not that old, so I'm, I'm being very, very disciplined and keeping myself out of harm's way.

• 38:46Lewis Howes?

  That's good, that's good.

• 38:47Les Brown?

  Keep my mask.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 38:49Les Brown?

  Doing all the stuff that we need to do. Common sense.

• 38:52Lewis Howes?

  I guess.

• 38:54Les Brown?

  Practice.

• 38:55Lewis Howes?

  What do you think has been the biggest challenge you've had to overcome? Let's say since your thirties or forties. Because the first part of your life was a lot of learning to overcome the mental, uh, challenges, the, the self-talk, um, the believing in yourself, that type of challenge, I would say, which got you to a level of success and, uh, accomplishment and speaking in front of hundred. I remember seeing a video on YouTube of you in front of like a hundred something thousand people running around on stage saying, you've got to be hungry, which is one of the most famous talks of all time, probably. What would you say is the biggest challenge you've had to overcome since, you know, you thirty or forty? In the last thirty, uh, forty or fifty years?

• 39:40Lewis Howes?

  Is there different types of doubts, different types of challenges, once you've kind of mastered a certain level of success?

• 39:47Les Brown?

  The biggest challenge that you face is going from believing to knowing. That's the place that you, that you go to. I went into the Georgia Dome. I did not believe I could command an audience of eighty thousand people. But Mike Williams, my mentor, who, who wrote the book called The Road to Your Best Stuff, he was there with me. He said, Brownie? And I said, yes. And he, he, he saw my hands trembling. He said, look at me, Brownie. I said, yes. He said, You can do this. And when he said that, I knew it. And I said, thank you, Mike.

• 40:30Les Brown?

  And they gave me the microphone. That's the last thing I remember. I don't remember giving this speech, but here's what I knew. I can do this. He said, speak from your heart. And I was working with a young man the other day, incredible voice. And, and he had memorized his script. And I said, I want you to give me this again. And I want you to know, you can do this. You don't need this script. We're talking about your life. And I want you to speak from this place of knowing. And his whole continents changed. And he gave it from his heart. And was, it was not the, the training he had got, it was very mechanical, you know, they, the

• 41:13Les Brown?

  Dale Carnegie course, which is a great course, that tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them.

• 41:18Lewis Howes?

  Tell them what you told them. Yeah, yeah. When I learned Toastmasters also, yeah.

• 41:23Les Brown?

  Yeah. And I said, no. Mike Williams taught me, my mentor, Brownie, never let what you want to say get in the way of what your audience wants to hear. Conduct communications intelligence. Find out who they are. And then speak to that. Find their sweet spot and focus on that. And, and so I asked him some key questions about his life, to find out about his character, and how he came to be the person that he is now. And, and Martin Seligman, in the book called Learned Optimism, he said, between ages of zero and five, we develop permanent

• 42:06Les Brown?

  personality characteristics. And there's a voice in our heart that says yes, or it says no. And there are behaviors that follow us from, for the rest of our lives. And, and what came up for him, his father, his father was a very kind guy, and, and a very strong man, military man. He loved him, but he didn't, the father didn't know how to show the love. I said, he did the best that he knew how. And I, so I said, I want you to find the good. Let's focus on the good of what that experience was like. This man was very regimented, very structured.

• 42:50Les Brown?

  How, tell me some good things that you remember. And first, he was very tense. And then he started thinking about it, his body relaxed. He said, you know, my father, he could fix a real good hot water cornbread. I said, is that right? I said, my mother could bake a good sweet potato pie so good, you can't eat it with your shoes on. You have to kick shoes off so you can wiggle your toes. That's what my father's cornbread was like. And he got, I got a whole different personality out of him, that other part of his personality. What I script, and I said, I want you to speak from that place of love. Let's, let's work from that place.

• 43:35Les Brown?

  And we threw the script in the trash can. And now, man, when he speaks, I'm like a little kid, because I'm a groupie, man. I have great speakers. And I was crying like a little baby. I said, you did it. That's what I'm talking about. Yes, I hear your footsteps, but I'm not afraid of you. I'm not scared, okay?

• 43:58Les Brown?

  You're gonna hear, man, you have to be Jamal Nelson. You're gonna hear.

• 44:03Lewis Howes?

  I love that. And I think a lot of us, we, we speak from our head and not from our heart, and it hurts us. You know, it disconnects us to other people's hearts when we're speaking from the mind only, as opposed to connecting heart to heart emotionally, whether it's from one to one or one to 80,000. And I think that's one of the things you do so beautifully. And you continue to show me on this interview is just connecting to my heart and connecting to millions of people listening through story, through taking us back, through. Putting us in the place, I can see myself as a little boy next to you, watching you getting beat by your woman with the police officer on his horse with the billy, billy club. I can

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  see that image as if I was there. And to create that connection makes it real from the heart. So you're a master at this. I got, I gotta do a one-on-one session with you someday. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make that happen. So I'm gonna reach out to you after this.

• 44:59Les Brown?

  I love your story. I've done a lot of research on you. There's some good stuff up in there I'd like to use for you to look at. Yeah. And if you, I'm gonna show you, and if you don't, I will use it. I said, you know, I got a friend.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate that.

• 45:14Les Brown?

  Lewis, alright. And when it comes to greatness, he is the absolute personification of greatness itself. He teaches you how to turn adversity into greatness. Let me give you an example. Oh yeah, I've got a place to go. I've been meeting, it's just very fascinating.

• 45:34Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate that. Yeah, when, we've got to have to, you know, once Corona's over, hopefully we can, we can say hi in person and, and make it happen, whether it be in LA or if I gotta come to Atlanta, we'll make it happen there. You've got this, this book called, You've Gotta Be Hungry. Why did it take you so long to finally put this book out? And what should we know about it? I want everyone to get this book.

• 45:59Les Brown?

  It's different than any other book that's been out there because it's one thing if you are in a majority culture and you're part of the majority. I sent a letter to Gunther Rinker and they sponsored the infomercial for Tony Robbins and they sent me back a letter saying, we acknowledge, we receive your requests for a partnership to do an infomercial, but you're black. And, and we don't believe that America's ready for a black speaker. So I sent them back a letter saying, thank you for reminding me that I'm black. I, I never would have known that if you hadn't told me.

• 46:43Les Brown?

  Thank you for reminding me.

• 46:46Les Brown?

  Of rejection. He got the complexion of connections. So, so I said, I'll see you from the top.

• 46:56Les Brown?

  And, but that was, that was a good thing because.

• 47:02Les Brown?

  It brought something out of me that says, "My destiny is not in your hands. I'm gonna find a way to win." People that are manifesting their greatness, they find a way to win. They are no matter what people. They're like a Walter P. Price, Chrysler, Chrysler failed fifty-one, forty-nine times in the automobile industry. They find a way to win. I remember when Muhammad Ali was knocked down the first time by Joe Frazier, and Howard Cosell asked him, "Why did you jump up so quickly?" And Muhammad Ali said, "I looked around and saw where I was."

• 47:47Les Brown?

  And he said, "A canvas is no place for a champion." He said, "And I jumped back up." And so, when you have, living your place, life from a place of knowing that there is something in me that I strongly believe, there's a dimension about us that very few people reach for. And I think that's the greatness, and that most people become discouraged when their athletic careers have been cut short and they felt that that was the only slot for them in life. And they find someplace else that they will show up and say,

• 48:31Les Brown?

  "I'm gonna take a stand here. I'm gonna make a difference in people's lives. I'm gonna let people know that just because things stopped over here does not mean that you don't have something of value and power over here, in this area here." And so, you reinvent yourself. And so, that life will give us all type of stuff to overcome. You take a person's eyesight, then you have a Ray Charles or a Stevie Wonder. So, life will always challenge us. I have this quote I love that said, "In life, you will always be faced with a series of God-ordained opportunities." Brilliantly disguised as problems and challenges. And so I think that, that those of us that have been picked out to be picked on,

• 49:15Les Brown?

  that the greatness has been recognized in us. And that we, as a result of that, we, we release what Elizabeth Browning called the imprisoned splendor. We rise to the occasion when others fold, when others buckle and run with the tails between their legs. And it, it brings something out of you that would not give birth had it not been for that adversity.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, can you just keep talking for the next five hours? I can listen to you all day, my man. I appreciate. I can listen to you all day, Les.

• 49:48Les Brown?

  Thank you.

• 49:49Lewis Howes?

  I want, I want people to get this book and I don't know if there's-

• 49:52Les Brown?

  It will teach them how to overcome adversity. I've gone through so much. I gotta, I'm gonna share this with you. For you, I'm gonna just do this. My mother said my mouth is like a refrigerator. I can't hold nothing.

• 50:06Les Brown?

  I went through an experience with opiates. And the, the, the, the challenging part for me was not going cold turkey to get off it. But my kids, I'll never forget. I was in a hospital for nine days and I didn't know it and I didn't even know how I got there. And so when my son, my second oldest son, Patrick, was driving me to my youngest daughter's house and I saw these cars, I said, uh, what are these cars doing here? He said, you sit and you get inside. So I came in and I saw Mike Williams,

• 50:46Les Brown?

  Mike who's been my mentor for 51 years and, and my other kids and two people that I didn't recognize. And I said, okay, is this an intervention? He said, yes. I said, who is it for? He said, for you.

• 51:02Les Brown?

  Me? I'm the intervention king. No, Dad. You've been in the hospital for nine days. Nine days? No. And then he said, yes, you're unconscious.

• 51:16Les Brown?

  Why? We don't know. We were just called and said you're at University Hospital. And, and then I went to each one of them. I said, "Look at me. I taught you not to smoke, not to drink, not to do drugs. Do you think I would misrepresent you as your father and do something so stupid?"

• 51:43Les Brown?

  They said, "No, but there are two types of drug addicts, Dad." "What are you talking about?" "There are people who pursue drugs and people who are prescribed drugs. You've been prescribed them and you just cooperated. It's just too many. We want you to live. We don't want you to die like Prince. We want you to live." Man, I went to each one of them. That was the most humiliating experience of my whole life. And so my youngest daughter said, "Daddy, you teach us that you can't read the label when you're locked in a box. You need help."

• 52:28Les Brown?

  And she started crying. "You taught us to get help, not because we're weak, but because we want to remain strong, and I want you to do this for us." So I said to this couple, I said, "Okay, I'm ready to go." They said, "No, no, no, we'll come tomorrow morning." I said, "No." I said, "You're gonna have to take me tonight. You come here tomorrow morning? I will not be here. I've never been in any place that I couldn't leave when I want to. You, you need to do this tonight." So they drove me for about four hours to Middleton, Middletown, Ohio, to this drug program.

• 53:06Les Brown?

  And I stayed there five days. People doing double takes, "Are you Barry White?" "No, you can't be Les Brown, the motivator." "Yes, I am Les Brown." "I know that voice, you gotta be..." "I've been listening to you for a long time, what are you doing here?" My children say that I'm hooked on drugs. So, after those double takes for five days, I went into the director. I said, "Listen to me, there are two types of people. Drug addicts, there are ones who prescribe drugs, and there are ones who go seeking drugs." I said, "I was prescribed these drugs for pain, for the sciatica pain and pain for cancer. It's eaten forty percent of my T1 vertebrae in my spine."

• 53:49Les Brown?

  And this guy said, "Every junkie's got a story." Man, I grabbed the phone on his desk, I was about to bust him in the head. And this lady, who is his administrative assistant, she said, "Mr. Brown, please. I've been listening to you since I was a little girl." And she's crying, she said, "Trouble is easy to get into and hard to get out of. Please don't hit this man with this telephone." I was about to bust him in, he called me a junkie? I called my son, said, "You better come get me, or I'm walking away from here." It was like twelve degrees outside, right?

• 54:34Les Brown?

  I'm four hours from Columbus. And he came. And I was leaving the director, said, "He'll be back." I said, "I will not." And I went cold turkey. They rushed me to the Cleveland Clinic about six different times. And I heard them say on this other side of the curtain, said, "You know, if he's in his thirties, he can do it. But not in his sixties." And that night, I prayed to Mamie Brown, my adopted mother, and my birth mother. I said, "I don't know your name. You gave birth to me. But I need the two of you to get together

• 55:16Les Brown?

  and help me have the strength to get through this." They want to give me a drug called Suboxone, and it's addictive. First time, shame on them. They prescribed these drugs to me. And I'm addicted. Now they're gonna give me a drug that's addictive. And they say it's harder to get off, but at least I just be on one addictive drug. I said, I can't knowingly take something that's addictive. The other ones, I didn't know, but this, I cannot make myself do it. Man, I passed out. I had these dry heaves.

• 55:55Les Brown?

  Ah, ah, ah, I was, I was taken there six different times, unconscious. The night I prayed to both my mothers, I said, I need your help. Please help me. Cause I'm not gonna do this. And then the next morning, Louis, I had no gagging, no dry heaves. The next morning, I got a, I had an appetite. The next morning, no cold chills and, and hot flashes.

• 56:35Les Brown?

  The next morning, I got my strength back and I knew I was on the other side of it. And I said to them, both of them, thank you so much. Thank you for getting me through this experience. Y'all can rest now, cause I ain't gonna be taking, I won't even take an aspirin. When they, when they prescribe something for me at Kansas Citizens of America, I ask them, what's in this? Is it addictive? Do you have non-addicted pain medication? We do. Why didn't you prescribe that to me? You really wanna know? Yes, I do.

• 57:19Les Brown?

  Addictive ones are more expensive. Wow. Pills, Mr. Brown. Pills pay the bills. I'm sorry. I said, I am too, and I'm so glad that I'm not the young man that I used to be, because I'd have towed this office up with you. Let me tell you something.

• 57:37Lewis Howes?

  Hit you over the head, yeah.

• 57:39Les Brown?

  About to make me lose my mind. Up in here, up in here, about to make me act a fool up in here. Oh my God. But you know, it's all good. Had I not been fired from radio, we would not be having this conversation. Had I not gone through the experience, there are people, and why I wrote her in the book, I could have, I said there, we have three lives. We have a public life, we have a private life, and we have a secret life.

• 58:10Les Brown?

  And I said, I'm going to share something I've never shared before. And I said, if it helps one person to know that it's possible that they can get off those drugs, then it's worth it to me to risk my credibility and my reputation and share that with them. Because they are going to be saying, if Les Brown can do it, I can do it. At seventy-five, he's a tough cookie, and they're right.

• 58:38Lewis Howes?

  You are, man. I appreciate you, Les. I miss you, man. I hope to get to hug you soon. I appreciate your energy, your presence, your storytelling as always. I really acknowledge you for the incredible gift you are. I know both your mothers would be incredibly proud of you for how you continue to show up, how you face adversity and inspire people like myself and anyone that turns on your voice and reads your words and is a witness to your example. You're an incredible gift to this world, Les. I appreciate you. And I want everyone to go get this book. They can go get it online on Amazon. They can go to your website. We'll have it all linked up in the show notes as well. They can follow you on Instagram, DlesBrown or LesBrown77 on Twitter. You are, your gift, man.

• 59:23Lewis Howes?

  I want to, I want to finish with sharing what you shared last time in our interview. I asked you what your three truths would be, and I'll share them here, what you said. You said, live your life from a place of love, live your life from a place of faith, and give the world your best, your full, and die empty. I also asked you your definition of greatness. I want to get your final thoughts here in a second. You said. Greatness is willingness to live life courageously, to take changes, to make impact, to take chances and to make an impact. Know there's something bigger than us and surrender to something you love. And that was your definition of greatness.

• 1:00:03Les Brown?

  Yeah, I wanted to add an amendment to it.

• 1:00:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes, let's hear it.

• 1:00:07Les Brown?

  Live a life that will outlive you.

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, I love it, man. Thank you for your gift and your example. I can't wait to see you soon. I'll text you soon. I'll email you and we'll continue chatting, my friend.

• 1:00:19Les Brown?

  All right. Appreciate it. Now, those who want one-on-one coaching.

• 1:00:23Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 1:00:23Les Brown?

  They can email me, [email protected].

• 1:00:27Lewis Howes?

  Okay, perfect. Yeah, because we want more people to do one-on-one with you for sure. We need more great speakers in the world.

• 1:00:32Les Brown?

  Thank you. I can break it out, but I want us to share the stage together.

• 1:00:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I would love to. We've got our event in Ohio next year. We have to postpone it this year for next year. So if you could come, September, Columbus, Ohio.

• 1:00:44Les Brown?

  Yeah, I've got 15 grandchildren there. Yeah.

• 1:00:47Lewis Howes?

  Let's do it. Ohio Theater.

• 1:00:49Les Brown?

  Yeah, I'm suing the Catholic Church because I got class action suit because the rhythm method does not work. I have rhythm, but the rhythm method does not work. I have five boys and five girls and 15 grandchildren and four grandsons. You don't know about the rhythm method. Okay. The producers will tell you. Okay. The rhythm method. They will tell you.

• 1:01:19Lewis Howes?

  I love it. You got a lot of kids. You got rhythm.

• 1:01:25Les Brown?

  I sneeze at a woman she get pregnant.

• 1:01:29Lewis Howes?

  Les, I appreciate you. So lesbrown77, where can they email you?

• 1:01:35Les Brown?

  gmail.com, at gmail.com.

• 1:01:37Lewis Howes?

  Okay, perfect. We'll link it all up. Les, I appreciate you, man. Let's talk soon, brother.

• 1:01:41Les Brown?

  I appreciate you so much. Thank you. Love you.

• 1:01:44Lewis Howes?

  Love you too, man. Thanks, Les.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening to this episode with my friend Les Brown. Make sure to share this with someone you care about today who you think will find value in this, who will inspire them, who will improve their life. Send them this link right from Apple, Spotify, or lewishowes.com/971. And also, if this is your first time here, please subscribe and leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts. It will help us get the message out to more people and inspire greatness in others. And if you want more inspirational messages from me, every week I shoot out text messages, audio notes, videos to my text community.

• 1:02:28Lewis Howes?

  You can send me a message with the word PODCAST to 614-350-3960. Again, text me the word PODCAST to 614-350-3960. And check out the podcast description for links to other similar impactful podcasts. If you enjoy this one, we have other related episodes in our catalog that I think you'll enjoy as well. And I want to close with this quote from Winston Churchill, who said, "Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." As Les says, "You've got greatness within you. I'm so grateful for you. I love you so very much." And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.