938 Dave Ramsey: Master Your Money In a Time Of Uncertainty

“You don’t die from fear.”QUESTIONSWhy is right now in these financially hard times the best time to make money? (1:20)What lessons have you learned from the recessions you have endured? (6:30)What do you tell people that have not been financially responsible? (13:21)What’s the worst investment and best investment someone could be making right now? (21:29)What was the greatest lesson that your father taught you? (31:41)What’s the wisdom you’ve learned from your partner? (33:40)YOU WILL LEARNWhy losing your job is an opportunity (2:00)What a recession is (4:11)How many jobs are being lost per case of coronavirus (5:12)Why now is the time to invest (9:42)What pressure is good for (17:01)How desperation and greed can poorly affect your investment (21:10)The purpose of repentance (28:21)How listening to your partner can help (36:18)If you enjoyed this episode, show notes and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/938 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 938 with New York Times bestselling author and radio icon, Dave Ramsey. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:35Lewis Howes?

  I want to start this interview with a quote from Dave Ramsey. He said, "You must gain control of your money, or the lack of it will forever control you." Welcome to this special episode where I am so excited to bring you Dave Ramsey. In a time of financial crisis, uncertainty, fear, worry, and anxiety around many things and money, also more than money, our health, our environment, everything, but people keep coming back to money with me saying, "Lewis, I am struggling. I just lost my job. I just went through this uncertain time where I'm not sure about my money, my money situation.

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  I've still got debt. I've still got bills. I've still got all these challenges. And yet, here we are with coronavirus and these uncertain times. I've got money in the stock market. That's going down. You know, my 401k, everything is going down. What do I do?" And I have some insights from my personal experience from 2008 to 2010 of what it was like being broke, getting out of that situation in a dark economical time. But I don't have all the answers. And that's why I bring on great people like Dave Ramsey to share the answers. And let me tell you this, Dave blew me away in this episode. He was like a preacher, motivational speaker.

• 2:01Lewis Howes?

  Uh, he was a money master, all these things. He brought all of it. And I'm so excited that you get to learn from him. And if you don't know who Dave Ramsey is, he's a personal money management expert and extremely popular national radio personality. He's got seven bestselling books. He's sold more than 11 million copies combined. This guy is a machine. By age 26, he had established a $4 million real estate portfolio, only to lose it by age 30. And using the wisdom he gained, Ramsey rebuilt his financial life and now teaches others how to be responsible with their money so they can acquire enough wealth to take care of loved ones, retire with dignity, and give generously to others.

• 2:44Lewis Howes?

  How many of you would love to give generously to others someday? I know I would love to. Ramsey's radio program, The Dave Ramsey Show, is heard on more than 500 radio stations throughout the United States and Canada, in podcast format, on iHeartRadio, and the Dave Ramsey Show iOS application, live on YouTube, and as well, live audio and video on davaramsey.com. The man is everywhere, right? And in this interview, we talk about Dave's experience in the last three to four recessions, and what that taught him about financial endurance. Also, now more than ever, why it is important not to make financial decisions based on fear or desperation. Please do not do this.

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  How Dave looks to build leadership and character in his organization of 1,000 employees during this time. And I also got the opportunity to ask Dave some questions I asked The Rock on his Instagram Live the other week, which were, what are the greatest lessons his father taught him? And what does he love the most about his wife? So while you're listening to this, make sure to tag me, at Lewis Howes, and at Dave Ramsey over on Instagram, share it on Facebook, and Twitter, and social media, and tell your friends about this episode who you think might gain inspiration from this. You have the power to change and inspire someone else's life right now. Just send them this link, lewishouse.com/938, to learn how to master your money in a time of uncertainty.

• 4:11Lewis Howes?

  And without further ado, let me introduce to you the one and only Dave Ramsey.

• 4:21Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got the legendary Dave Ramsey in the house, sir. Thank you so much for taking the time.

• 4:27Dave Ramsey?

  An honor to be with you, my friend. Thank you for reaching out.

• 4:30Lewis Howes?

  We got to connect, I think it was a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago, when I came down to Nashville and came into the studio. You were gracious enough to have me on and have a little chat with me. And I've been wanting to have you in LA come for years now, but you're never here, except for maybe once or twice a year, and you're pretty booked. So now we've got this time to do it virtually. So I'm grateful we got the time to do it now and I appreciate you for being here, man.

• 4:55Dave Ramsey?

  Well, that was back before they closed LA.

• 4:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right. Exactly. Is Nashville closed or are you guys?

• 5:01Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, yeah, it's closed. Everything's closed.

• 5:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you just gotta be careful. You probably got a lot of your team staying at home and just a few people there.

• 5:08Dave Ramsey?

  Almost all of them. Yeah, I mean, we got a thousand folks on the team and they're all working from home. We got a few folks coming in to do the radio show here. We got a few Skeleton Crew things, but very minor. Most are by phone.

• 5:18Lewis Howes?

  Well, you're, I've been loving what you've been posting about on Instagram. I'm not sure, do you have any idea what's, what your team is posting or if it's here?

• 5:26Dave Ramsey?

  Oh, I do. Yeah, definitely do.

• 5:28Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. You're inspiring a lot of people, especially in this times of uncertainty financially. And I remember watching a clip of yours talking about 2008, 2010, that timeframe where you made, you said you made a lot of money in the last recession. And I think while people are struggling to figure out, well, you know, I just got laid off and, but how can I see this as an opportunity to make money when it seems like no one's buying anything or no one's investing in things? But why is a time like this a great time to make money?

• 6:01Dave Ramsey?

  Well, it's a great time to be introspective and to pivot and to do resets and to try stuff you never tried before.

• 6:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:09Dave Ramsey?

  Because you might as well, right? We're all sitting at home. We gotta try something.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  I'm thinking of those free time.

• 6:13Dave Ramsey?

  I mean, we pivoted a whole bunch of product lines here at Ramsey and all kinds of things. And we could throw all these offerings out there, stuff that we might've messed around with split tests for a year or whatever. Instead, we just dumped it on the street. Let's just try it. Just see if we can help some people and give some people something to do while they're at home with some digital products. And so. That's exciting. You may have a situation where you hated your job. I mean, statistics tell us that 68% of Americans hate their job, and some of you don't have that job anymore. So you get the opportunity to get one you like now, and you might not have done that on your own. So this could be the best thing that ever happened to you. There's a lot of good that comes out of this much pressure, because it forces, it forces you to reset. It forces you to rethink. And, you know, two or three, four crises ago, I don't know,

• 6:57Dave Ramsey?

  back, I'm an old guy now, I had a personal crisis, you know, of losing everything. I decided I was never going to be the victim of the things I can control when one of these things that I can't control come at me again. And so we got out of debt, and we built an emergency fund. And we were, in the last downturn of 2008, we were in a position of, we had piles of cash. And so I was able to buy real estate at a nickel and a dime on the dollar. And it was a wonderful time. But there were other times I was broke and couldn't take advantage of stuff being on sale. But if you're in a position, you've got money right now, the stock market's on sale, real estate's not moved much yet, but if you're buying even consumer items other than toilet paper, most things are on sale.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  I know. How much, how much deeper down do you think this will take in terms of, you said, real estate's not on sale yet, but it probably will be. How much farther down do you think things are going to go, and for how long, with your, you know, just your guess on this?

• 7:50Dave Ramsey?

  I mean, you know, weather forecasters and economists, only people can be wrong all the time and still keep their job. So I have no idea. But I do know there's going to be a direct correlation between how long we stay out, and how long it takes us to recover. No kidding. It's kind of common sense. The obvious is, every week that we're out, there's another series of businesses that will never reopen, that will close. And so, and that's, a recession is two consecutive quarters of the gross domestic product, all the goods and services produced in the US, shrinking rather than growing. That's all it is. It receded rather than expanded. And so recession sounds like a big scary depression

• 8:34Dave Ramsey?

  type word, but it simply means two quarters. We've not had one quarter yet, shrinkage. So it would have to be up into the fall before you can officially declare this a recession, or what results from the Corona shutdowns, a recession. So I don't know. But I'm sure hoping that That the folks are not ill and that nobody dies and it's a horrible thing and uh but the the but and the juxtaposition with that is it the sooner we can get back to work uh the fewer people are gonna be um you know affected by the economics of this and it's not saying I'm trading a dollar for a life but today actually that we've lost uh about a hundred jobs per case of Corona right now.

• 9:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:20Dave Ramsey?

  So the Corona shutdown.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  In America, in America or?

• 9:22Dave Ramsey?

  In America, yeah, we've lost about, you know, the Corona shutdowns affected a hundred families' jobs uh for every case uh not not death for every case

• 9:32Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 9:32Dave Ramsey?

  Uh of the virus and I don't want anybody to be sick, I don't want anybody to die and I don't want the hospital bills, the beds and the ventilators running, I don't I don't want any, I don't want any bad stuff, I'm I'm not a medical person uh but but I am an entrepreneur and I'm, you know, every day we're uh not working uh is a trade-off and it is a good trade-off because you don't want to kill people, believe me, I'm saying that, but but man, it's just, it's painful to watch these people lose their businesses.

• 9:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, from your, you you mentioned you've been through three or four recessions, I don't want to, I don't want to say your age out here, but it sounds like you've been,

• 10:05Dave Ramsey?

  I'm sixty.

• 10:06Lewis Howes?

  You've been around the block, you've experienced some stuff, you know, I only went through really uh, you know, I guess my adult life um when I was twenty-four, I guess it was, the two thousand eight to two thousand nine time uh timeframe when I was just got out of school and I was trying to figure out my life, I had three credit cards, I was living off of, I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half, I was in college debt and I didn't have any skills that I thought were usable to get a job or do anything. And when I look back, you know, eleven, twelve years ago, that was actually the greatest time and the greatest gift for me to develop skills, to work hard, to hustle, to try to see how can I make a hundred dollars here and there and then turn that into a business.

• 10:48Lewis Howes?

  And it was the greatest, it was the hardest time and the greatest time for me. I'm curious, with your experience in in watching these in over the years, what were the greatest lessons you learned from each one that you applied in the last three weeks with your personal business?

• 11:06Dave Ramsey?

  Well, it is cliche, but cliches come from truth. That, um, you know, that, that, you know, it's the greatest time and the worst time in your life. Uh, you don't want to go back there.

• 11:16Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 11:17Dave Ramsey?

  Good Lord, no.

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  Never.

• 11:18Dave Ramsey?

  I don't want to go back there. I went bankrupt. I lost everything in my twenties. I don't want to go back there. But the lessons that I learned from that pain were so thorough. Uh, pain is a thorough teacher.

• 11:29Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 11:29Dave Ramsey?

  That, uh, you know, I, I, it was a rich time. The fertilizer was everywhere. Lots of place to grow stuff, you know? Lots of poop. So, you know, and, and that's, you know, that's what you had there in 2008. There weren't any jobs. You couldn't like, you could just, I mean, there was a, a contraction of the economy, a recession, and you're there, you are on your citrus couch. And so you found out that the secret sauce in your life is the guy in your mirror.

• 11:56Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:57Dave Ramsey?

  That it's not some outside variable that's going to come and save you. The Calvary's not coming. Santa Claus doesn't live in Washington DC. It's up to you, baby. Get up off the couch. I gotta go leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. You found that truth in that moment. I found that truth that, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. You know, that old saying, I found that truth. And so nowadays, now that I've been through, uh, you know, Y2K or 911 or all these initials come at you, you know, the, the horrible thing of 2008, now the Corona. Uh, the only thing I am sure is we're going to get through this.

• 12:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:33Dave Ramsey?

  You get hope because you go, it's not going to kill you. Well, I guess you could get the virus. I don't mean that, but I'm saying the, the economic stress that we're under, the fear that we have, the concern or the worry that we have, it doesn't, you don't die from it. You, but, but you feel, you feel like, like there's this hopelessness and the truth is that's unfounded. The truth is, there's a lot of reason to have hope. Uh, by September, where do you really think we're going to be? By this time next year, are you not 90 something percent sure that the economy will be roaring again and your life will be back to some level of normalcy? You think it's going to be 10 years for you to personally recover from this? No. That's absurd. And you know that, once you've walked through several of them.

• 13:18Dave Ramsey?

  And so it's just to me, it's like, yeah, you're gonna make it. We're gonna be okay.

• 13:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And so your personal, I guess I'm just curious about your personal thoughts. Do you think to yourself like, I'm fine, because I've followed my seven steps for years and I've got, you know, cash and I feel safe and protected. So now how can I shift and adapt and pivot and serve my community and customers more? Or do you feel any, do you feel any anxiety personally at all?

• 13:44Dave Ramsey?

  Oh, no, none. No, I mean, I'm, we're, we're in fabulous financial shape. It's not a, I've got a lot of money invested in the stock market. It's going down. I'm gonna put some more money in while it's on sale. You know, I mean, it's, if real estate goes on sale again, I'll buy some more. So no, I mean, my personal stuff, it's, it's not arrogance. It's just, I've been doing this a long time.

• 14:01Lewis Howes?

  You're the king of it. Yeah.

• 14:03Dave Ramsey?

  I'm, I'm the, I'm the little pig in the brick house, you know, I mean, huff and puff, baby. And so, but, but I do, it does put you in a position to serve then. And truthful, you get more joy even in a crisis and serving than you do in sitting in the basement and counting your coins. I mean, so the opportunity, I got a thousand folks on our team and, you know, the struggle and the scratching and the scrappiness and the clawing to keep this place running. And all of them not have their incomes interrupted in any way during this time. That's an act of service and leadership. The act of service of speaking hope and life into this, into the communities around America right now

• 14:47Dave Ramsey?

  is an act of service on my part. It's being on the air three hours a day, the Dave Ramsey Show and saying, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. Over and over and over again. Right now, that's my job. That's what I do. And it's, that's just so much more satisfying than counting coins.

• 15:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Now, I followed your steps when I was, you know, 25, 26, when I started making some money, when I was like, It's hard to, it's hard to follow a step when you feel like you're, you're living off credit cards and in debt and you're not making any money. You feel like this sense of helplessness really, and I know I've listened to a lot of your shows with people where they feel helpless. And it takes that initial momentum to kind of kickstart it and see little savings here and there, and then pay off one thing here and there. But I'll tell you, once I finished those, I guess really the, the first five to six steps, I don't have a home still, I still rent for personal reasons. But the first five to six steps and then building wealth and giving, giving. Once I got through these, it's just like, man, you feel so much more bulletproof.

• 15:49Lewis Howes?

  I feel so much more bulletproof now, after 10 years of building into this recession, I feel safe, I feel fine, I feel protected. And it gives me so much more peace of mind since I did follow your steps. So I would first want to acknowledge you for that, for creating something so simple for us and, and providing this three hours a day for everybody. I think it's amazing. You sound like a preacher and a motivational speaker to me in the last few minutes, just speaking life and hope into us. So I appreciate that.

• 16:18Lewis Howes?

  What are you telling the people right now who are saying, you know what? I didn't follow your advice. I didn't do what I should, I should have done. I, I still live off of credit cards. I overbought, paid for my house and I've got this expensive lifestyle and credit cards that I, I know I'm wrong, I made a mistake, I own it and now I'm screwed. And I just got 50% cut of my work. I might lose my job in two months. I've got all these bills, like how do you even, how do you even respond to something like that?

• 16:49Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, well, I certainly don't say I told you so. Uh, that's not, that's not the message because I've been there, I've done stupid stuff too. And that's not helpful, uh, and it, it doesn't bring, it doesn't bring any healing. Uh, the thing is this, we all get wake up calls. We get wake up calls in our relationships, our spiritual walk, our leadership styles. We get wake up calls in our finances and. Some people, the phone's ringing off the hook right now. Uh, they're getting wake up calls on a bunch of things. Uh, they're at home with their family and it's, and they're starting to realize I was disconnected from my family. I haven't been plugged in my, they got a wake up call on their relationships at home. They've gotten a wake up call on, you know, I, I don't have any savings and I've got, I'm deeply in debt. This isn't working.

• 17:35Dave Ramsey?

  And so the, you know, the, the, the cool thing is when you get the call, then you have to make the choice. Are you going to answer the phone?

• 17:44Dave Ramsey?

  If you pick the phone up, that means maybe it's time to change. And, uh, you can look back and you might be, uh, 27 years old right now, watching this and you're screwed. You lost your job, you got no money, you got no savings and you feel like it's all over. Uh, and I remember in 1970, I was 10 years old and I was in my grandpa's backyard. We were tearing down an old deck and I pulled some nails out of those old boards as we were taking the boards off. And he taught me to put them down and straighten them with a hammer and save those used nails in a coffee can. Now, my grandpa Ramsey was one of my favorite people on the planet.

• 18:22Dave Ramsey?

  This is 1970 and he was still answering the phone that rang in the great depression. It changed his life. He was frugal and careful and wise with money the rest of his life. And so someday, 27 year old, you're going to be sitting on the back porch with your grandkid and you're going to remember back in alt 20, there was the coronavirus and it changed my life, you know? And that, you're going to be that guy. You're going to be giving dad jokes, you know? And grandpa jokes, right? Like I am now. And you're going to get that opportunity. I was 28 years old and I lost everything. It was my fault.

• 19:07Dave Ramsey?

  It was the SNL crisis, the banking climate changed. I'd built a house of cards. I was stupid.

• 19:15Dave Ramsey?

  And the phone rang. It was my wake up call. Are you gonna answer the phone? Are you gonna change your life where you say, never again? I'm gonna control the controllables to where I'm the little pig in the brick house. Never again. That may be the only thing you get out of this crisis, and if it is, you got enough.

• 19:37Lewis Howes?

  Preach to me, Dave. Come on now. I love this. What's uh, what's the biggest wake up call for you that this has had? Maybe it's not the financial side of things or business because you guys are thriving. Is there something, you know, relationship, family, friendships, health? Is there anything that's woken you up now or in the near future and recently?

• 19:57Dave Ramsey?

  Well, I've spent the last 15 years pouring into our leadership team and the Ramsey personalities, creating the succession plan of, and so um, it's not a wake up call. It's more of a source of pride as to how our leadership team and our Ramsey personalities are reacting in the moment here, uh, without me coaching them. They already knew what to do.

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  They're leading.

• 20:20Dave Ramsey?

  They're out there doing it. They're doing it. They're out there.

• 20:22Lewis Howes?

  They're not waiting for Grandpa Dave to say, what do I do? Tell me the steps.

• 20:27Dave Ramsey?

  They're leading. They already did it. And then I found out about it, you know, and that's, that's awesome. And so it's just a, a sense of, ah, this is starting to work, you know? I mean, when Rachel Cruz and Ken Hogan and these guys are doing, Ken Coleman are doing all these hits. And Chris Hogan, all of these guys are doing all these hits, these radio and TV and appearances and all this stuff everywhere. And the, the networks are calling and asking for them, uh, which is awesome. And so, um, you know, that kind of thing is, uh, I don't know if it's a wake up call as much as it is. It's very satisfying to say, you know, all that work of the last decade and a half, uh, of getting everybody ready to win because we were winning in a winning environment.

• 21:08Dave Ramsey?

  But then when you get the pressures on and you get squeezed, you see what comes out and it's good stuff coming out.

• 21:15Lewis Howes?

  What was the last, uh, I mean, what year would you say was the last big wake up call for you? Around, you know, one of the main areas of your life? Do you remember when that was where you're like, oh, you know, I'm eating a little too many, uh, candy bars or, um, you know, my relationship or, you know, what? It sounds like you've had to finance it down for many years, but is there another?

• 21:35Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:36Lewis Howes?

  Where you're like, oh, you know what? I really didn't do as good as I should have done here.

• 21:41Dave Ramsey?

  I guess it's probably leadership and I probably get one of those calls every day. Um, there's some days I'm a world-class leader and some days I'm just a butt.

• 21:50Lewis Howes?

  In what way? Like, how are you a butt?

• 21:55Dave Ramsey?

  So, I mean, sometimes I do a better job than other times as a leader. And I, uh, I own it. I'm, I get it, but you'd think as old as I am, I'd be doing better. So, uh, but I know what I'm supposed to do, but sometimes I just don't have the energy to do it. I don't care. And, uh, I should just care more. I really should. I shouldn't be such a grouch.

• 22:15Lewis Howes?

  Oh, no, you're, you care a lot about a lot of people. I'm curious, what's the best, uh, what's the best dad joke you share?

• 22:22Dave Ramsey?

  Oh, Lord, I can't, I have no idea. Uh, you got me. I'm not a dad joke guy really. Other than just stupid stuff off the cuff that doesn't even make sense generationally. So, yeah.

• 22:34Lewis Howes?

  No good dad jokes. What, uh, what is the, the most common thing that you're hearing with your, your, the people that are calling in for you right now? What's the thing that you hear over and over again? That they need the most support with?

• 22:47Dave Ramsey?

  I think there's a sense, I, I think when hope gets gut punched, the way it has for folks right now, um, that the, the, the answers fall, a lot of them fall in the category of this is not going to last forever. Uh, because there's this sense that, you know, stock market's down. Do I take my investments out? Well, only if you think it's going to stay down forever. Right. Uh, cause you know, you're, you're 35. You're going to be investing for 30 more years. You don't think it's going to come up in 30 more years? I mean, really, you predicting the end of America? I mean, that's, that's silly, but your emotions tell you lies when, when they're based in fear. And when they're based in anger and they tell you lies and, and they tell me lies.

• 23:32Dave Ramsey?

  We believe those lies in situations like this. So, uh, you know, you, I lost my job. I know, but that's happened before and it probably happened again. Just get you another one. Well, there's, there's, yeah, there's a lot of people hiring right now.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  There are a lot of people hiring.

• 23:46Dave Ramsey?

  Amazon, Amazon's hiring a hundred thousand people right now.

• 23:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Dave Ramsey?

  So, I mean, there's jobs. It may not be the one you want, but you can get some food. Uh, I mean, get you a leaf blower and rich people are afraid of leaves, you know? I mean, you can make some money. So, there, there's some stuff to do out there, but the, uh, uh, so the thing that, the sense that, that, that the... Thing you're afraid of is going to last longer than it is.

• 24:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:11Dave Ramsey?

  Uh, whether it's the actual virus, whether it's the shutdowns, whether it's the economic repercussions of the shutdowns, whether it's the employment situation, uh, whether it's the quarantine, it, it feels like it's gonna last forever. But I mean, the chances of you being in the exact situation you're in, in a few months is almost zero. Your life is not a snapshot. You're not trapped in this moment. It's a film strip. The story's gonna continue to unfold.

• 24:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:38Dave Ramsey?

  And, and so that, that, when hope takes a gut punch though, we, and we get down in that fear, or we're mad, or we're, whatever, however it is, we manifest that stuff, that those negative things, we, the emotions that we all have in these situations, that's where a lot of my questions are coming. They're all built in that. And I'm spending all my time going, uh, yeah, but it's not gonna last forever. Uh, yeah, but it's not gonna last forever. Uh, yeah, but let's visit this in May. I think you're gonna be okay. Uh, by June, are you even gonna remember this? It's the great toilet paper shortage of the spring. You know, I don't know. I mean, what, what is it? You know, it, it's, you know, some people are gonna have devastating horrible things that are gonna be life-changing. But that, that's a very small percentage compared to the number of, that are worried about it.

• 25:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:24Dave Ramsey?

  And, and so, you know, you-

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  And you're gonna get out of it. You're gonna get out of it.

• 25:28Dave Ramsey?

  You're gonna be okay. Most, I mean, you're, you're gonna be okay.

• 25:31Lewis Howes?

  I like, I like Preacher Dave, man. This is a, this is just a preacher show, you know? I like this. What is the worst investment people should be making during this time? And what's the best investment they can make?

• 25:43Dave Ramsey?

  Um, in my life, when I have become desperate, right after that's when I become stupid.

• 25:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Explain.

• 25:56Dave Ramsey?

  The other one is, the other one is when I get- Well, when, you know, when you get scared and you go rushing towards something out of fear, that sense of desperation, this, "Ohhhhh" thing, when you do that, you're getting ready to screw up.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 26:13Dave Ramsey?

  I mean, just count on it. Uh, and the other time you do that is if you're greedy.

• 26:19Dave Ramsey?

  If you think you, okay, I got this one. I can take advantage of this. And, uh, I mean, greedy as a lack of virtue greedy. I don't mean greedy in a, a positive way where I'm being ambitious. Okay. I mean, the negative sides of greed. And so if you're functioning in desperation or in this no holds barred, I've, I'm gonna just clean up on other people's pain thing. That's when you're getting ready to screw up and you're getting ready to make a major mistake. And, and so you're set up also for con artists when you do that.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 26:54Dave Ramsey?

  Um, and so if you're, if you're functioning in high emotion, your brain just doesn't work good. My friend Art Laffer says, well, people, when you're panicked and when you're drunk, you don't make good decisions. And so, you know, you, you're, when you're on high emotion, your brain is, it's your critical thinking skills shut down. And, and so that's when I've made the biggest mistakes in my life is when I was desperate. And the few times that I was greedy where I thought, oh, I'm gonna slip in there and that's gonna be easy money.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  Well, what was that?

• 27:21Dave Ramsey?

  Easy money.

• 27:22Lewis Howes?

  Could you share a story of one of those greedy times where you tried to jump in?

• 27:25Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, a buddy of mine, a buddy of mine, I was in my twenties and a buddy of mine was buying gold. And, uh, now this is in the eighties. Okay, it's a million years ago. And he's buying gold and he had this friend that was a gold, he was a gold bug. He was picking gold and this guy had picked the gold prices where they were going within the dollar, uh, like 14 times in a row. And so, uh, we both dropped five grand into this thing. And if we had hit, it was a, it was a margin deal. And so I would have made 50 grand. And I thought, I'm putting 5,000 bucks in here. I'm gonna make 50 grand. But it's a margin play, which means you're either gonna make 50 grand or you're gonna make zero.

• 28:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 28:06Dave Ramsey?

  And so he picked it right 14 times. The time I got in, the 15th time, missed it. I got zero. Turned 5,000 bucks into zero instantly. Last time I bought gold, last time I played stuff on margin, last time I got greedy.

• 28:22Lewis Howes?

  Was it, is there ever a time where, so what's the difference between greed and a great opportunity of being ambitious?

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Can you make money, can you make money fast in certain things? Or is typically most things take a certain amount of time and energy and effort?

• 28:38Dave Ramsey?

  The vast majority of people who are successful financially and successful have done it incrementally. Uh, there's very few people who you see a meteoric rise in their wealth or their success that's keep it. And I, I think because you build your character along the way to be able to hold on and be able to do it. I think that's, that's my theory on it. Uh, I mean, I got rich quick. I started with nothing and by the time I was 26, I had four million dollars worth of real estate. I built a house of cards, you know, and I had a million dollar net worth. I made $250,000 in 1984. I was making 20,000 bucks a month and in my twenties. So, I mean, but you thought I had it all figured out, meteoric rise to the top. But the very thing that caused me to be the, the incredible overdrive of ambition

• 29:23Dave Ramsey?

  uh, caused me to go so fast, uh, that, that I missed the blind spots. I missed the detour signs. I missed the bridge out signs. And so I built this house of cards I thought was a stone house, but I was naive and didn't know. And along comes some regulations changes, a few shifts in the economy, uh, a little SNL crisis and

• 29:44Lewis Howes?

  It all comes down.

• 29:45Dave Ramsey?

  Uh, you know, all of a sudden Dave looks like an idiot instead of a genius. Uh, and so it turns out I was a little of both because you don't build something like that at 25, if you're not somewhat of a genius, but I was obviously an idiot in the way I built it. And so I get to do it again, get the oppor- the wonderful opportunity to start over.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  And built the right way, yeah.

• 30:05Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, but I mean, in the midst of that, as I was falling of, it took two and a half years to lose everything they own. I had stuff presented to me. I almost got conned, serious con, like people just a real con artist type guy. There's not many of them out there. Most of the time you get screwed by well-meaning ignoramuses, but these, these were real con artists coming into my path. And I was about to give them money because I so desperately needed to turn quick money into big money to save myself. I was desperate and right about the time you get desperate is when you get stupid.

• 30:35Lewis Howes?

  So don't, don't make those decisions. So there's not really, so what I'm hearing you say is the wealthy, wealthy people. It takes time and it's incremental. It's not an overnight thing. It's not a quick rise. There might be some spikes here and there, but it's typically over time.

• 30:49Dave Ramsey?

  It's okay to take a spike, but anytime I get a spike, I'm always a little suspicious of it.

• 30:54Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:54Dave Ramsey?

  It makes me, it makes me even more careful. I draw back and I go, well, that's really cool. Is it okay? You know, because it's not normative. Normative is incremental. Uh, and so I always tell entrepreneurs, it's okay to be on the cover of Slow Company Magazine.

• 31:10Lewis Howes?

  I love this. Now, something that you mentioned and something I just know about you as an individual, your values and the values in the of your, your business and your brand is how important character is from every person that comes there. You, I think it's a 12 part interview series before someone can be hired. Uh, is that correct?

• 31:31Dave Ramsey?

  12?

• 31:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. 12 interviews. And I'm not sure how public that is, so let me know if I'm

• 31:35Dave Ramsey?

  That's okay. That's fine. We go, we go, you go through the wringer to get in here.

• 31:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. You gotta, you pretty much, it takes you six years to get a job with Dave Ramsey.

• 31:42Dave Ramsey?

  Not that bad.

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  They talk to you, to talk to your spouse and your dogs and, and everything to make sure that you have great character. And this is what I love about you is your, uh, leadership on a certain standard for the human beings you surround yourself with and who are part of your, your mission. And I think it's really inspiring. And I look up to that. I'm curious, how do you teach character for people that don't have what you want yet? And maybe not everyone's at the level you want, but how do you, can people change their character over time? And how do you shift that?

• 32:15Dave Ramsey?

  Oh yeah. I mean, it's a decision. You can just decide. Um, I mean, think about it. What's integrity? Integrity. I can just decide I have it.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Dave Ramsey?

  And now I do. And I start acting out of the fact that I am a person of high integrity. Uh, I'm a person who's dependable. I'm a person you can count on. I got your six. I got your back. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna cut your throat from behind. Uh, and you can just decide to be that today. Maybe you were the world's worst gossip before and none of your friends could count on anything except you slitting their throat from behind, but you can just decide, just like that, to change. And so it's, it's a wonderful decision. In Christianity, we call it repentance. You're walking one way, you stop, you turn, you walk the other way. That's all it is. You turn around. Do you do a turnaround? And so, for most of us, it's a journey. You don't do it instantaneously. I can decide to control my tongue.

• 33:06Dave Ramsey?

  I can decide to speak life over people rather than death and filth over them. I can decide that. I don't always do it right. I just told you a minute ago, sometimes I'm a jerk, right? So, but it's a, and we don't, by the way, we don't have any perfect people working here. We have people that are trying. You're not perfect, Dave? We're not. Just read the articles, okay?

• 33:31Dave Ramsey?

  But now, the, I mean, the thing is, we got people that are trying. Yeah. They're humble in the sense that they know they're not, but we're, listen, we aspire to be people that can be counted on. We aspire to be people of value. We aspire to be people of noble character. And when we don't, then we know that we didn't. But most people just go along and their language is filthy and their life is filthy. And then they wonder why they're not attractive. And they wonder why they're not winsome and the opportunity does not come to them. It's because opportunity runs from that. People don't want to do deals with people they can't count on who are crooks.

• 34:13Dave Ramsey?

  They don't want to do deals with people who, you know, run around on their wife. Because if you run around on your wife, you're probably gonna mess me over in a business deal. I mean, you know, so this is a lack of character. And so, I'm always leery when I run into that out there in the marketplace when we're doing deals, we're hiring a vendor, we're bringing somebody on the team, we're interacting with new friends we have and so forth. And it's not that I'm being judgmental, I just want to be wise because, you know, you become who you hang around with, for sure. Your speech patterns, you read the same books, you have the same thought patterns, you're hopeful or fearful based on who you run around with, what your inputs, you know. We know this because those of us that raise kids, we don't let our kids run around with juvenile

• 34:57Dave Ramsey?

  delinquents because we know they'll come home acting like juvenile delinquents. Hello.

• 35:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:01Dave Ramsey?

  So, and adults aren't any different. They're the same thing. I read the same books my best buds read. I think the same way they think. And so I have to be careful. Who are my, who's my inner circle? Who's my posse that's influencing Dave? And so that's the kind of stuff we're doing. And, you know, as a person of faith, that means I'm going to church on Sunday. And it's not because they have some kind of magic pill down there. It's because I need to be connected to God because I'm not going to get this by myself. Otherwise, that's the way I view it. And that's what we do around here.

• 35:32Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious. I asked, I've got about a seven or eight, six or seven minutes left with you. I got a few questions left. I asked a question. The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, had a Instagram Live over the weekend. And I asked him a question on Instagram Live, his first Instagram Live. And I asked him a question just via the text, but he said, Lewis Howes, great question. And he responded to it. And I'm going to ask you the same question. And I'm curious your response. The question to him was, two questions that he answered. One, what was the greatest lesson that your father taught you? So I'll let, I'll let you answer that one first. What's the greatest lesson that your, your father taught you?

• 36:12Dave Ramsey?

  My dad was in the real estate business when I was growing up and was a student of all the great, uh, sales trainers and positive thinkers of that day. So, I mean, we had breakfast, lunch, and dinner with Zig Ziglar, Earl Nightingale, Paul Harvey, Cavett Robert, Charlie Tremendous Jones. And he infected us, my dad did, infected my, my sister and I with the belief that we can do anything. I really believe I can do anything. Um, now, I, I, that, not, not within, I mean, I guess within, I'm not gonna be in the NBA. Okay, I'm not gonna play in the NFL. Okay, I don't mean that.

• 36:56Dave Ramsey?

  But I'm saying, i- if I apply myself and I figure out what the steps are and what the blockers are, and I do the steps and I overcome the blockers, it's up to me. No one, the Calvary's not coming. And so, it was a wonderful, wonderful childhood in that regard. Very entrepreneurial household that goes with that, obviously. Uh, but if you will get up and leave the cave, kill something and drag it home, you'll be okay.

• 37:20Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Love that answer. Uh, the second question I asked him was, what does he, what is the thing that he admires and respects the most about his wife? And I'm curious, uh, for you as well, the thing you admire and respect the most about why you decided to be with your wife?

• 37:38Dave Ramsey?

  She has uncanny, scary wisdom.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 37:44Dave Ramsey?

  Her insight, she can read a room. I just go in a room and have a party and then wonder about the people later. She can walk into a room and reads everybody's mail before we leave. And she comes out and she goes, you know that guy over there? That's a good guy. You know that gal over there? She's getting ready to be in trouble. She's getting ready to step in a bear trap. And she has this discernment, this ability to read people and, um, this level of wisdom. And gotta tell you, that's a really handy decision-making tool to have her, uh, uh, you know, standing beside me going, uh, uh, uh, we're not doing that. I'm like, every time I go against that suggestion, I lose 10 grand or more. So I'm not doing that, yeah.

• 38:24Lewis Howes?

  Right. So you, do you lean on her for a lot of, uh, feedback or, or wisdom on big deals that you do or decisions in the business?

• 38:31Dave Ramsey?

  One of the things we learned when we went broke was, was that I was not listening to her. Um, and, uh, she wasn't speaking up either. She was kinda doing the, uh, uh, uh, I'm, I'll stay home and, she's southern, you know, I'll stay home and raise the kids. And, uh, and meanwhile, she's thinking, "Bridge out, bridge out, bridge out," you know, and not saying so. So she had to learn to find her voice in this. But there's a proverb that says, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her, and he will have no lack of gain."

• 39:07Dave Ramsey?

  Interesting.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:09Dave Ramsey?

  So, I decided I didn't want a lack of gain. And so, uh, I, I, uh, and she's virtuous, so I can count on her. And if she's not virtuous, I call her on it. Uh, but when we get ready to make major decisions, a major purchase of a, uh, uh, an asset at the bill, uh, at the office, a major hire of a leader. Uh, when we first started hiring people, that's where we learned to interview spouses was Sharon and I would go to dinner with you and your spouse. With our first thirty or forty team members that came on board years ago. And, um, I'm just looking for her discernment, you know, because she's got those antennae on her head. She can go weirdo, weirdo, you know, and she can see, spot them a mile away and I can't.

• 39:49Dave Ramsey?

  And so, uh, because I just like everybody. I'm just like a Labrador Retriever, you know, so, uh, but she, she helped me figure out that we're not going to hire, and sometimes their spouse spoke into it. So it's a two-way street.

• 40:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:02Dave Ramsey?

  You know, we just have dinner. It's not a formal interview. We just have dinner with you. And, and our team still does this in the hiring process. It's the final thing. You mentioned it earlier. Spousal interview, we call it, but it's not really an interview. But it comes from that proverb and it comes from that idea. We don't, uh, right now, our Ramsey Family Foundation, our charitable giving stuff is run by my daughter Denise. She's our director of that for the last decade. And she's very competent as the director of a substantial foundation. Uh, but when we're doing something weird that's off budget, she emails in to Sharon and I. And this afternoon, I got an email, large amount, got the ability to pay this caterer to go in and feed all the nurses and feed all the docs at this hospital. Do we want to spend that? And Sharon and I make that decision together.

• 40:49Dave Ramsey?

  And so, quick email, took thirty seconds. Yeah, we, we got the budget, got the room in the budget. Yeah, we got a miscellaneous category. Tap it, do it. Game on. Okay? Wasn't really a tough decision because all the mechanisms were put in place ahead of time. But major hires, major purchases, major donations, that kind of stuff, uh, she speaks into. Uh, and now we buy copier paper without talking to her. Okay? That's not what I'm talking about. But, but, and, and, you know, most of the hires down here, she was not involved in. Ninety-eight percent of who works here today, or ninety percent of who works here today. But, uh, but still, there's a tremendous benefit to having that wisdom in my life.

• 41:26Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. That's beautiful.

• 41:28Dave Ramsey?

  It's one of the reasons I'm vastly successful.

• 41:30Lewis Howes?

  That's good. That's good. A great partner, great wife will support you in either being greatly successful or... A failure, I guess, or falling down over and over. I want to be mindful of our time because I think we have maybe two minutes left. So I want to make sure I ask this last couple of questions quickly. This is called the three truths. I ask this to everyone at the end. I want you to imagine a hypothetical situation. Uh, it's the last day on earth for you. And it's a hundred years from now, or however long that you can live. But at some point you gotta say, okay, today's the time that I go. And you have achieved everything. You have built this amazing business. You've seen your family grow up and people are happy. You've done it all. And for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your audio, videos, books.

• 42:15Lewis Howes?

  You've got to take them with you to the next place. So no one has access to your content anymore. Again, hypothetical. And all you could leave behind were the three things you know to be true. That would be the three lessons you would leave behind with everything you've learned in your life. I call it the three truths question. What would be your three truths?

• 42:35Dave Ramsey?

  God is real. You can count on him. People are worth the investment. They'll be your greatest joy and they'll break your heart. But they're worth the investment. And everybody needs a dog.

• 42:48Lewis Howes?

  I've never heard that one, but I just got a dog six months ago and it's like the greatest joy of my life right now. I love that answer. Uh, Dave, how can we support you? You've got an amazing radio show. You've got so many books. Where can we go to, uh, learn more about our finances and then in our life and all the things you're doing?

• 43:06Dave Ramsey?

  Ah, man, we're great. Just hit daveramsey.com and if we can serve you and help you with your career, your money, your marriage, any of the stuff that we're doing over here. It's what we do. And it'd be our greatest honor to be able to serve you as you walk through a transformational time in your life. And, uh, we were not, we're imperfect people helping imperfect people get better.

• 43:26Lewis Howes?

  You're not perfect yet?

• 43:28Dave Ramsey?

  That's the third time you've asked that question.

• 43:32Lewis Howes?

  This is my, I'll leave you with the final question. Before I do, I want to acknowledge you, Dave, for the consistency you've had over decades of serving people at the highest level while being imperfect, yourself constantly learning, growing, and acknowledging the imperfections you have. Thank you for being a preacher today. I think people really needed to hear that it's all gonna be okay. It may take months, it may take a year, but eventually you'll have the strength to move forward. And I just now acknowledge you for your joy and in constant giving nature. It's really beautiful to see someone that I admire, respect, to be at that level and with such a great character. The final question-

• 44:10Dave Ramsey?

  Very kind, my friend.

• 44:11Lewis Howes?

  Of course, man. And hopefully I'll see you soon in LA when you're out here, when I'm in Nashville next time. The final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 44:19Dave Ramsey?

  I'll have to probably wordsmith that a little bit, but it's gonna have something to do with service. There are very few people that are great that don't know how to serve. There are very few people that are happy that haven't learned how to serve. Whether service becomes generosity, or whether it's a servant leader, or whether it's a dad who gives really good hugs to his babies, it's gotta be around service.

• 44:44Lewis Howes?

  Dave Ramsey, thank you for your love and generosity and your wisdom. I really appreciate you. Thank you very much.

• 44:49Dave Ramsey?

  Appreciate your friendship, brother. Thanks for having me.

• 44:51Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  I hope this brought you some inspiration. I hope this brought you some education and tools on how to really master your money in a time of uncertainty. If you enjoyed this, please let me know. Subscribe to the podcast over on the School of Greatness on Apple and Spotify, and leave us a review over there if you enjoyed this episode. Please, share this with a friend. You have the power to transform someone's life, to change someone's life, to improve them in a powerful way right now. Just text one friend, or send a message in a WhatsApp group chat to lewishouse.com/938 and learn how to master your money in a time of uncertainty with Dave Ramsey. You can literally impact someone's life with the-

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Right inspiration and the right tools. You might've been telling your friends and family certain things for years, but they may not want to listen to you, but they will listen to someone like Dave Ramsey. So send them this message and you have the opportunity to truly change and transform someone's life today. If you enjoyed it, thank you so much for being here. We've got some incredible interviews and guests and topics coming up like mastering your intimate relationships during times of isolation. The previous episode was all about how to launch a side hustle business during times of economic stress and struggle. And we've got so many more goodies coming up for you. So make sure to subscribe and stay tuned for more great content on the School of Greatness Podcast.

• 46:22Lewis Howes?

  And I loved this quote in the beginning of the show. Dave Ramsey said, "You must gain control of your money or the lack of it will forever control you." Don't allow this to be a waste of time where money controls you in the future. Take command of your financial education and information about your finances. When you understand it better, when you know what's happening, you will be in more control and you'll be able to make better decisions moving forward. It's not going to be easy all the time. It may be challenging, it may be hard, but it will be worth it and you are deserving of it. I appreciate you. I'm so grateful for you. I hope you know how much you matter. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.