890 Finding Happiness Through Fame with Dan Reynolds of Imagine Dragons

YOU HAVE TO LET GO. So many of us make decisions because we feel like we have to do something. Whether it’s the religion we grew up in, what our parents want, or what we feel is culturally acceptable, we often betray ourselves. But you can only live this way for so long before you start to break down. You’ll lose sight of who you are and suddenly realize you don’t know how to find it. It’s a lonely feeling. For me, this point came after I got injured in football. I was forced to look at my decisions and figure out what I wanted. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about spirituality, relationships, and mental health with one of the most successful musicians of all time: Dan Reynolds. Dan Reynolds is the lead singer of Imagine Dragons and a recipient of the Songwriters Hall of Fame Hal David Starlight Award. He shares how he had a crisis of faith after being raised Mormon. He almost divorced his wife and left everything behind. But he was able to make some changes and find himself again. So get ready to learn how to stop living a people-pleasing life and stay true to yourself on Episode 890. Some Questions I Ask: How were you able to make your relationship work? (05:00) Why do you think people don’t share how they feel? (38:00) Do you believe it’s more powerful to create from a place of pain or love? (43:40) What’s your greatest fear? (42:00) What was the greatest lesson you learned in the last decade? (52:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: Why you can’t live a people-pleasing life (00:00) Dan’s crisis of faith and how Mormonism has affected his life (00:00) About Dan’s work with the LGBTQ community (19:00) Dan’s struggle with depression and anxiety (28:00) Dan’s health journey (45:00) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes, more at http://lewishowes.com/890 and follow me on instagram.com/lewishowes Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 890 with Dan Reynolds of Imagine Dragons. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Henry Moore said, "To be an artist is to believe in life." We're all artists, if you think of it that way, if we all believe in life, if we believe in the magic of life, the wonders, the adventures, the ups and downs. That's what this life is. And Dan Reynolds is a singer-songwriter and record producer, is best known as the lead singer and frontman of the Grammy Award-winning band Imagine Dragons. And he is a liver of life for sure. He's been around the world. He's been through all the ups and downs, had a lot of pain and a lot of happiness. And I'm excited to share this episode and interview with you

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  about him and his lessons of life. And Imagine Dragons chart-topping single "Radioactive" holds the record for the most weeks charted on the Billboard Hot 100. That's staggering. And Rolling Stone called it "the biggest rocket of the year." Billboard named them their breakthrough band of 2013 and the biggest band of 2017. Dan is also the recipient of the Songwriters Hall of Fame Hall David Starlight Award. In 2018, he began to talk about his physical and mental health struggles on social media accounts and continues to offer encouraging messages of support to his fans and others struggling as well.

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  And in this episode, we talk about the challenges of marriage and what Dan has learned about making relationships work. The powerful lessons about love that Dan learned from his family and upbringing. We talk about de-stigmatizing mental illness and the power of being open and honest about it, why it's important to listen to your body and advocate for your health. Dan's biggest piece of advice that he's learned from being a rock star, a family man, and an advocate for mental and physical health, and so much more. I'm excited about this. If you're a big fan of Dan or Imagine Dragons, make sure to share this with a friend. LewisHowes.com/890. Text someone, post it on social media.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  You can tag me and Dan Reynolds as well, and let us know that you're listening.

• 2:50Lewis Howes?

  All right, we've got Dan Reynolds here. Welcome to the School of Greatness Podcast, man. Super excited about this. Thank you for being here. You have been blowing up on the world with your music and your message. You know, your music is unbelievable and it's addictive. I think it's in the top of the charts because it's so inspiring and addictive. But your message is what is interesting for me. I think there's a lot of artists that become popular but don't have a message that says something meaningful. And you have that, which is really cool and inspiring. So I'm glad you're here. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. And I'm curious about, as I was doing research on you, I'm curious about marriage. Because I'm a single guy. I've got a girlfriend who I've been dating for a year. Nice.

• 3:35Lewis Howes?

  She's about to move in in a few weeks. Okay. It's been long distance for almost a year. And you've been married, and I read that you almost got a divorce, or you were talking about divorce. Seven months. Seven months, and now you're, and you're still. We're back together. Now, we've been together for about a year and a half and have had a baby boy together in that time. So, yeah. A wild ride. How long were you married? You've been married the whole time? We've been married for eight years. Yeah, we never got divorced, but we were going to. But then we were separated.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  We kinda just learned a lot about ourselves during that time period, about six months, seven months. And then, uh, we were literally going to sign the papers and went to lunch to talk about it. And then we ended up getting back together.

• 4:17Lewis Howes?

  So you were separated for seven months. Were you not living together? Were you not speaking?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were totally apart. We didn't even really talk.

• 4:23Lewis Howes?

  But you had kids?

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, other than the, I was on tour for those whole seven months and the kids would come out and visit and stay with me a couple of times a month and back with her. So it was basically zero communication for seven months.

• 4:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  After being together for, at that point, six years, seven years? Seven years, I think, cause I remember someone saying, "Oh, it's the seven-year itch," or something.

• 4:45Lewis Howes?

  Oh, right. It's like hard at seven years.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, seven years.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  Seven months, seven years.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Supposedly, that's the thing, yeah. I guess seven is the unlucky number.

• 4:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  I'm the seventh son, too, of eight, eight boys.

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  I'd say you're pretty lucky.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:57Lewis Howes?

  Not lucky, you've created. Yeah, exactly. So, okay, so give me some advice, if you can. I'm about to get into a more committed relationship. Why do you think that it got to a place where there was this disconnection, separation, or lack of communication, or whatever it was?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good question.

• 5:15Lewis Howes?

  And what would you have done differently so that it didn't get to that point?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  I would say, my best advice so far, just if I was reflecting on my relationship, for anybody, would just be, first of all, of course, communication is everything. That's kind of cliche, right? But I would also say, I had a really hard time in my life knowing what I wanted. Um, I felt like a lot of my decisions were made for me. I was raised in a really conservative family. I felt like there was this path that was kind of carved by seven boys in front of me, and then I kinda had to follow it. They were all Eagle Scouts, and like, it was like, this is the Reynolds way. Uh, and I fought against that my entire life. I was like the one who was getting in trouble. I was the one who had a hard time with religion, it didn't really work for me.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  But I also didn't want to disappoint. I had all these people in front of me that were so successful and and then, you know, they all got married and they all had kids. So, "Oh, I need to get married. I need to have kids." So, every decision in my life, I mean, I made it. I was a victim of myself, really. I was being a stupid victim, but I also, at the same point, was like, "I feel like I've just been forced into all these things. I'm a victim of myself." So, I think where I finally made a big turn in my life is I realized that I am free to make my own decisions and I'm Able to actually say, well, what do I want? And am I making this decision for anyone else but for myself? So I think my first question to you would be,

• 6:42Speaker 01

  are you with this woman 100% just solely on the fact that you want to be? No, and when I say that, of course, I'm not saying somebody's holding a gun to your head saying, but maybe there's like pressures of like, I don't, I really love her now and I don't want to hurt her or let her like, all of that aside, why are you just here because you want to be here? Every single day, are you there every day because of that? Not because of any pressure of, I don't want to be single anymore? Or people ask me, like, why am I still single or do you need to be married?

• 7:11Lewis Howes?

  They're gonna get married, yeah, yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So being able to get to a point in life where you really can let go, I had to get to a point where I was able to completely let go of, it's okay to disappoint people around you. It's okay to just upset everyone, you know? Even if that's, whatever it takes for you to be happy.

• 7:31Lewis Howes?

  Isn't one of the hardest things is not letting other people down? Not disappointing other people?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  It was my greatest strength and greatest flaw of my life, was really being, I hate the term people pleaser because it just sounds so corny, but kind of, kind of what I did my whole life. Like I'd meet someone and be like, what do I need to give this person?

• 7:53Lewis Howes?

  For them to like you.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  For them to like me, to feel comfortable, like it's a good trait. Let me, let me meet you and find out what you need from me and then I'll be a chameleon and I'll give you.

• 8:02Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, isn't that crazy?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then it just bites you in the ass and it actually hurts everybody around you. It's a pretty terrible quality to have.

• 8:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  But it takes a lot of release to realize that. Because you want to be polite still and kind and you want conversations to be easy, but sometimes they just need to be hard. And sometimes you have to have, face hard truths. And so I guess, I don't, I don't know that I have great advice other than.

• 8:24Lewis Howes?

  So why did you get to the point of like, okay, we're gonna separate?

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Because it was solely me, it was my fault. I got to a point where I thought.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Am I sure that where I am in life right now is exactly where I wanted to be? I was like going through a faith crisis. I'd been raised Mormon and I was like, I don't, I don't know if I believe this stuff. But I've been doing it for all these other people. Man, I'm like thirty years old and I don't know that, I can't point at any decision. Did I marry Asia because I knew I loved her, but I was like, but do, do I know that I want to be married? Is this like something that I want right? Like, did I choose all, it sounds so selfish saying this out loud, but I'm trying to be really honest with you. But I was just, felt like I was in a cage and I felt very claustrophobic. Um, and not because of her, she was absolutely wonderful.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  But because I was just a victim of feeling like I didn't have free agency my entire life, even though I totally did.

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  You made the decisions, you proposed, you got married. You could have any time backed out, but you felt this pressure from family and friends.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, or from myself, my own head. So I guess my greatest advice, you know, might not be a thing for you, but for me it was. I wish somebody had said to me, Dan, you don't have to do anything. You don't have to like, you don't have to move, you don't have to move in together. You don't have to be with, you don't have to be at this table right now. You don't have to be nice to me. You don't have to, you're like, you don't have to do anything. Like do, do you and be honest. It's gonna be okay. Like people, you'll still have friends with the people who should be your friends. And you'll still, it'll all turn out okay. And so I think that I wish somebody had just really helped me to feel okay about doing whatever I needed to do in life or something.

• 10:08Lewis Howes?

  Did you feel a bigger sense of pressure from family during that separational period or like?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  No, they all were very like, like they knew Dan is unpredictable and.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  He's a rabble artist, he's gonna do what he wants.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  He's an artist, he's just, and he's a really like, wow, what a horrible, like I definitely, I went away and I talked to nobody because I, I genuinely felt like everybody thought, well, that's a shitty person. And I thought, nah, they deserve to think that, you're right. I, I really was in that, I was in a really dark, dark headspace and I was like, I don't free and just go be free. I don't care how many people hate me. I really, I don't care.

• 10:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Uh, the only, the hardest part for me was how much it hurt Asia. But I just had just, I knew that I, it wasn't a choice for me at that point. I just kind of, uh. I just had to go on a journey.

• 10:55Lewis Howes?

  You needed it, yeah.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I almost completely lost her. I probably should have, but she went on a journey for herself and I went on a journey for myself. And it just worked out that, that we found, I for sure, and hopefully she, I can't speak for her, but found out that absolutely we wanted to be together, you know, and do this.

• 11:15Lewis Howes?

  So you recommitted from a free choice, not a pressured choice?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it felt like, it was like we, we washed it all clean and then we came back to each other and we dated. We were like, let's, let's go on a date. No commitment to me or you, like, this is going to end it. No, that was fun, that was my second date. It was all, it was like back to square one, like rewind 10 years previous, back to square one.

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool, man.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:37Lewis Howes?

  What was the biggest challenge you faced on tour during that time, being alone and being, you know?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  I can be self-destructive. So, yeah, I think I was just, it was hard to, it was hard to love myself, I think.

• 11:53Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. I was, I felt like a bad guy. And I just kind of was like, well, I am the bad guy, so what does a bad guy do?

• 12:02Lewis Howes?

  Whatever he wants.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Whatever a bad guy does, that's who I am. So I'll play the role. So I think, you know, there is a bit of that for sure.

• 12:08Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I don't know, this is the first time I've talked about this out loud, so I don't know, I'm still formulating in my head exactly what it was like, but looking at it, it was, it was a very important time in my life. It was the first time I felt completely free because I was like, I let go of caring. And now I'm at this new space in my life where I just, it's not that I don't, I'm not saying don't care about people. I'm just saying, don't ever dictate the way that your decisions that are gonna, especially your most important decisions, based on pressures of other people, your parents, your friends, they should make choices for themselves. And you should make choices for you. And if they love you, they're gonna respect you, as long as you're not like hurting people or being a bad human being, like, you know, like you have to make your own decisions.

• 12:52Lewis Howes?

  Have your family been supportive of the artist way that you have and the, the bad decisions?

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  Good decision, have they always been supportive and respectful?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think.

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  Or have you had to take some distance from them at times?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  I never really took distance from my family. Me and my mom had a time period where we were having a hard time communicating. It was when I was really dealing with my, like, faith crisis.

• 13:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  And she was, she's very religious and that was hard for me and so that and I had like resentment feeling like, why did you raise me in this? And then I was like, then I came to the realization, this is a whole nother conversation. But I came to the realization like, oh, she was just trying to tell me what, give me the best things that she thought she had to give me. Like, how can I be mad at my mom for like, telling me what she believes and thinking would be the best thing for me? But um, no, no, my family really, I think, I, it was kind of one of those things where it's like, if you beat someone down, they're like, well, it's just the way dad is, you know, it was like, I got kicked out of college. Before that, I got, you know, I had, I had all kinds of things growing up that kind of got my mom to a point where she was like,

• 14:00Speaker 01

  I had, I feel like, I tell my younger brothers, I'm like, man, you got it really easy because I broke mom in. I like really broke my parents and

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  You can do whatever you want.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, they had a lot of good, good, straight and narrow kids and then I came along and kind of, yeah.

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  Now you talk about the challenge you had with your faith, you grew up LDS.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:18Lewis Howes?

  Where are you at with the faith now or what was the realization you had?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  I really am a spiritual person. Uh, I really, I believe in spirituality. I think it's an important part of my existence and, and um, I'm on a quest, I think, every day to find truth and light and to hopefully be a light and, and find truth. I think it's a dangerous concept. I feel like you're at a point of arrival. I think I'm always searching and I'm always like, wow, that, that feels true and I like that. It doesn't feel true, I don't like that. And just kind of like, listen to everyone and, and, and be open. Um, so I wouldn't call myself religious. I do still identify as Mormon,

• 15:02Speaker 01

  but more culturally than anything. I think I have a lot of loyalty to that community. They're like my people. I went on a mission for two years. I like, you know, got like beat up with other missionaries. You got like slurries thrown at you, you get like spit on, you know what I mean? So it's like, it kind of unites you.

• 15:21Lewis Howes?

  People telling you to get away from me, don't talk to me.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  Pushing you away.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Or just growing up being like a Mormon. It's not cool. It's never been, unless you live in Utah or something. I didn't.

• 15:30Lewis Howes?

  That is cool.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  I grew up in Las Vegas. Yeah, in Utah, everybody's Mormon, so it's like if you're not Mormon.

• 15:33Lewis Howes?

  Hey, come on over.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  But in Vegas, it's not cool to be in middle school and be like, I'm Mormon. Everybody's like, that guy's a pilgrim or something, you know? Like, he wears special garments, like, and then, you know, it doesn't, and then you get like, you know, Broadway plays that are all about how stupid you are, and they're funny. I'm not knocking like The Mormon Musical, but, you know, it doesn't help that you as a Mormon kid, you're like, you're dumb, you're a dummy to everyone. You're just like, everybody, you're, you're kind of like the butt of everybody's like, like joke when it comes to like, religion, you know? Like Mormons are free, you're allowed to make fun of Mormons all you want. Like, it's, it's actually kind of, now that I'm like, at a point where I'm like, I'm kind of on the outside, I look at it and I'm like,

• 16:15Speaker 01

  it kind of is, it's, look, there's some things about Mormonism, like, look, you guys are messing up on this and I'm trying to like, help with that, especially when it comes to like LGBTQ things and stuff, that's a whole nother conversation. But, that being said, Mormons are like free game for everybody to pick on. I'm like, it's not that cool. It's not cool to pick on anybody, period. But, especially when it comes to people's religions, I'm like, why is it okay to, you know? Like, we're not allowed to pick on this religion, but we can pick on that one, but not this one. I'm like, well, all orthodox religions are messing things up in certain ways, so either we make fun of them all, or let's take it all off the table. It's a little like hypocritical, but whatever.

• 16:50Lewis Howes?

  Are you, do you have a relationship with the church or the, do they support you? Do they not, because you're into?

• 16:55Speaker 01

  I honestly, I have no idea what the leaders of the Mormon church think about me, if they think I'm like a thorn in their side or something because of, I, I, you know, I really believe in, I really firmly believe that our orthodox religions are hurting our LGBTQ youth by telling them, hey, look, your most innate sense of being is flawed.

• 17:14Lewis Howes?

  What are they saying to the community?

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Well, it's, just in general, I mean, that you're telling a child that they need to love a specific way. And...

• 17:25Speaker 01

  It's a very dangerous thing to, I grew up with some of my friends who are Mormon and gay. And before they came out, I think anyone who was close to them, we knew they were, yeah, we knew. But it was like, they definitely didn't talk about it because it wasn't safe for them to. They weren't, it wouldn't have been accepted in their family at all. They had a really, really hard road in front of them. And I watched that and it was hard to watch that. Much harder for them, but being their friend, your heart hurts for them, you know? And then I watched some of these, some of these guys go on missions and come back. And, and they didn't feel safe to come out till some of them were in their late twenties, thirties. And it was, and then they lost family over it, lost friends. And it was like, it's devastating.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  So for me, just watching that, it made me feel like, ah, this is, this is broken. And then you look at the stats and it's like, the number one reason for death among teenagers in Utah is suicide.

• 18:18Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, suicide. And then on top of that, LGBTQ youth aren't accepted in their home or community. They're eight times more likely to take their life. So you put those two stats together and it's no wonder that we're losing so many LGBTQ youth to suicide. It's, it's not because they're broken. It's not because they have mental issues or something. It's because our society and our culture is broken. And we've kind of created this really desolate place for them. It's like, here, let me raise you in this religion. Let me tell you from a young age that this is everything. Like, God loves you based on this or not.

• 18:51Lewis Howes?

  Only if you do this, yeah.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  If you do this. And by the way, if you are LGBTQ, you know, you're, you can, you could still be religious, but just be celibate or, or hide it. And then have, it's like you're setting them up for a really unhealthy lifestyle. That's just impossible to live by, so.

• 19:09Lewis Howes?

  And someone who's unable to share their truth, whether it's right or wrong, good or bad. If you're not able to express your truth or who you feel like you are in that moment, is setting people up for big failure. If we're unable to share how we feel, express ourselves. Now, curious, what do you feel like is your truth after all of these, you know, years of trials and tribulations and ups and downs and marriage and almost divorce and back together and kids?

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like.

• 19:38Lewis Howes?

  Religion and non-religion.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Right, right. I don't feel like I have a, like, a core, like, this is, this is the truth. Like I said, lots of little truths. But I think my main principle that I try to abide by is.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  It's a simple concept and it's been said a million times, but I really try to meet people and just say, you know what? They were raised with whatever came, you know, however you were raised. How would I have been if I was that person? I would probably be worse than them. You know what I mean? I'd probably have been a worse human being than them. So I think, you know, it's like everybody is living in this world right now where everyone's screaming at each other. They're like, stupid Republicans and the Republicans are like, stupid Democrats. And like the religious people are stupid atheists, stupid religious. It's like, right. But if you were just born in a different state or a different home or different city or different.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just would be different. And so it's so silly to me that we're spending our entire existence as humans mocking each other based solely upon where you were born, what you were born into. It's not someone's choice. They just were born to be gay or they were just born to be. You don't have this choice to be raised in this family that's Baptist or raised. Like whatever it is, like, how can you judge someone off that? It's really silly. How can you even judge them if they're in their 40s and they have all the free will in the world and they're still doing that? Maybe you would have. Maybe you would still be doing all those exact same things as that person.

• 21:19Lewis Howes?

  Or maybe in some area of your life, you're still that way. You're still fixed in a way and based on how you were raised.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  And you haven't chosen a different way.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:27Lewis Howes?

  Or a new belief.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I guess my just true abiding principle is just to realize, you know, realize that and just love people. Just, just come at, come at things with love and.

• 21:38Lewis Howes?

  Compassion.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Compassion. And look, if someone's gonna burn you like three times in a row or whatever it is, like, you know, then don't take time for that person.

• 21:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, they're not for you.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're not for you. Spend time with someone, you know?

• 21:48Lewis Howes?

  Who would you say was your greatest teacher growing up?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  My mom and dad, for sure. My dad just quietly has worked his entire life. He still is working and he's late 70s or something. Well, I'm sorry if I got that wrong, dad. I think mid 70s. He's just worked his whole life. He's a quiet. Guy who grew up on a farm, kind of farm boy mentality, hardworking, very conservative Mormon father who just has, you know, believes strongly in the things he believes and was a great dad and is a great dad. And my mom was very outspoken, very intelligent, very like strong, strong woman. Could have done anything, was like the valedictorian of her college, I think that has a different term for it, I don't know what it's called.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  But could have gone into medicine and done a lot of great things. And she decided to have nine kids instead and.

• 22:43Lewis Howes?

  What was the greatest lesson she taught you?

• 22:45Speaker 01

  To love, I think, you know, like true empathy, true love. Like I was talking at this seminar the other day that was in Utah, actually, and it was a LGBTQ summit. We had this part where we were talking to parents. And I don't know why, I'm not qualified to talk about any of these things as like a cisgender, straight man. But I was raised Mormon, so I could speak to that a little bit and things like that. But anyway, so I'm speaking to these people and was talking about how the second a parent says, I love you, but it's just not love. Second, anybody in your life, the second anybody says this, if your girlfriend says this to you, anybody, I love you, but this is my view on something, that's not what love is, it's just not.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  To your LGBTQ child, I love you, but religion tells me that it's not love. Love is just, I love you, that's it, that's the end of the conversation, that's love, otherwise it's not love. And that's something my mom taught me. Because I was really difficult, I was a difficult child and she just.

• 23:42Lewis Howes?

  She had to love you.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  And she loved me.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  There was no but at the end of your mom.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  No, I never felt but from her. She strongly wanted me to do things. She strongly wanted me to be a good Mormon boy and be an Eagle Scout and go on a Mormon mission. But she didn't force me to do it. As I get older, you know, if you would have asked me this two years ago, I'd have been like, my mom forced me to go on a mission or something. As I get older, I look back and I'm like, you know, I could have said no to any of it. She wouldn't have kicked me out.

• 24:07Lewis Howes?

  She might have been disappointed or maybe hurt or.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  And, you know, she strongly emphasized things, but I had a choice and I made my choice.

• 24:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, even though there was a lot of pressure and you felt like you wanted to please your mom, that was more a reflection of you than her.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, good point.

• 24:24Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah, I mean, I can relate to that. What, you know, you started opening up about seeing therapists or therapy and depression and. Some people might say, "Man, you were the top of the world. You were like the biggest artist."

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  Number one hit songs for, I don't know, a thousand weeks in a row, whatever it is. Like, you're touring the world, sold out arenas. How could someone like that ever feel depressed? Or ever feel lonely or insecure? When they have everything that I could imagine wanting myself?

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's a really redundant thing, it feels like, to say this, but I'm just gonna say it because it's a real big truth for me. Happiness does not come from achievements. It just doesn't, it doesn't... I won't say happiness doesn't come from some money. There's like a... I will say this, yeah, there's like...

• 25:14Lewis Howes?

  To make fifty grand a year, you're like, "I can't..."

• 25:16Speaker 01

  You have enough money for, to do the things you wanna do. For the most part, you know, like, buy that little thing you wanna, you've always wanted to buy, like, your bike that you wanna go mountain biking with. Have your house, or have an apartment. Have food, like, those things, absolutely. Anybody who tells me money doesn't make you happy, I would say, I call BS.

• 25:34Lewis Howes?

  You're wrong.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  I've been so broke with, when my wife and I got married, we were totally broke musicians, both of us, living in a one-bedroom studio apartment that we barely could afford.

• 25:44Lewis Howes?

  In Vegas, or where we go?

• 25:45Speaker 01

  In, uh, in LA, actually, in Hollywood. Because we were trying to break into the scene, so we both...

• 25:49Lewis Howes?

  What year is this?

• 25:50Speaker 01

  This is 2009?

• 25:53Lewis Howes?

  So, ten years ago.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, something like that, 2009. With a baby sleeping in the closet, and no medical insurance, and like, we're just, it was a really, you know, scary time for us, but... And so, we were happy, but we were very stressed. So, it's so, anyway, so...

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  Anxiety.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  A little bit of money, absolutely important. But, um, sorry, what was the question?

• 26:17Lewis Howes?

  Um, when people are asking, like, "How could someone like you be depressed when you have all this..."

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Right, so I'll sweep back before that. So, when I was in like, middle school slash high school, I started to really deal with serious depression and anxiety. Um, and the way I describe that is because I know some people are like, "Well, I've heard people who..."

• 26:35Lewis Howes?

  Were you really depressed?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, were you just sad? Were you just sad? And I'm like, no, depression is not just sadness. Depression is like, the way I'd explain it to someone who's never experienced depression is numbness, grayness, a loss of interest in every single thing that usually gave you excitement to do, like, whether it's sports, or music, or whatever it is. I just, it was like, I just went numb. And I just felt like my existence was... A cloud, like I felt when people talked to me, I could hardly even engage, I could hardly even listen. Totally antisocial, all these things that come with major depressive disorder were happening to me. I don't know, there's some genetic thing, I don't know if it was a trigger from dealing with my spiritual crisis. I don't know, it was a matter of just being day and night, I don't know what it was.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  But it just, I should have been happy, had a really great life, you know. But, that doesn't indicate whether or not some people get depression. So, went to a therapist, dealt with therapy for many years, helped me a lot.

• 27:34Lewis Howes?

  In, in middle school, high school?

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, high school.

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Um, helped me a lot, went to a therapist while I was on my Mormon mission. Came home from my mission, went to therapist, I still go to a therapist today. And it's made all the difference for me, absolutely. So, but when you grew, when you're a child of the nineties and you grew up then, it was very different. It was like, don't talk about being depressed, because if you're depressed, then you're weak.

• 27:58Lewis Howes?

  Or don't talk about your feelings, or that you're sad, or lonely, or insecure.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Right, because then people are like, oh, that person, like, right, we're the normal people here, and that's weird. He's the depressed guy, you know what I mean? It's like, it definitely was super stigmatized. Like, we're better now, a little bit, but then it was like, nobody's talking about seeing a therapist, that's not cool at all. So, one of the first things I really wanted to start talking about to help de-stigmatize as good as I could now, which a lot of people are doing, which I think is fantastic, is saying, I have a therapist, dealt with depression, dealt with anxiety, part of my life.

• 28:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Because if someone were saying that to me when I was in like, high school or something, oh my gosh. Yeah, I was like, oh, that person I look up to, like, who has it all, who has it all, is still depressed, just like me? Oh my gosh, woo, he's gonna be alright, you know?

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I feel like, um, it's been a battle for men, you know, I grew up, I was born in eighty-three, so grew up in the eighties and nineties, and I, I wasn't even allowed to really like, put my arm around a friend, like a guy friend.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:56Lewis Howes?

  Without being called fag, gay, wussy, weak, little girl, whatever the term was. You know, just a buddy, like in the locker, on the sports teams. And I, I wrote a book a couple of years ago that came out called The Mask of Masculinity, which is about... How men can be more vulnerable and how vulnerability is the key to healing and to freedom.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 29:20Lewis Howes?

  For men. And I opened up about being raped as a kid and what that effect had on me. Growing up in relationships and just like not being able to talk about that for 25 years. And I've talked about it a lot now, but not being able to talk about anything, any type of pain or insecurity.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Being vulnerable.

• 29:37Lewis Howes?

  Anything. Cause I didn't feel like I could ever share with anyone. Although if I put my arm around a guy and I was called a negative name, just like a little bit of friendship. Or if I started to talk about something I was insecure about, it was like, get away from me.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  So imagine someone who's gay and it's not being accepted, not being able to do it, right?

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:57Lewis Howes?

  You understand that, so.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  And I remember I was just like, I always felt like I couldn't share things that actually happened because I would never be accepted or loved. And the moment I started opening up about it, which was about six years ago. Started opening up to my friends, family, and then publicly, like the pain started to go away. And I started to become less of a prisoner of the fear because I put it out there. And I think when men specifically who don't like to open up, learn how to open up and be more vulnerable, even just with a therapist in a private setting. I'm not saying say this publicly to the world.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:32Lewis Howes?

  But when we start to open up, you say you start to feel better.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 30:35Lewis Howes?

  You can manage the anxiety or depression or negative thoughts or insecurities, right?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:41Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think so many people still today don't share how they feel with even someone where it's confidential? Why don't they seek that out? Why do they try, why do we try to hold it?

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's look, it's first of all, like we said, it's something that has just been a part of like toxic masculinity for a long time. You can't be vulnerable. You need to be a strong man that's just perfect and put together and, and the woman needs to be this. And here's a feminine quality and this is a man. Like there's no in-between, there's no anything, it's just you're either this or that. That for sure. I also think today it's, it can be really unhealthy. Social media can be really unhealthy.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard with comparisons.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yes, people spend a lot of time on it and they scroll through these pictures and they look and they're like, "Let's click on this family. Wow, they look beautiful." Every picture. "Wow, look at the beach." They're like, they're traveling a lot. "We need to travel more. We haven't traveled in a while. I haven't gone on vacation in a while." "These people are on vacation all the time. Hey, look at this person. Oh my gosh, she looks so great in makeup all the time." "Why do, I don't look like that when I put my makeup on." Like, it's like this. These thoughts are going through everybody's mind all the time. And that creates this real false narrative that there are people out there that if you just could be, they're just great. They're fantastic. They wake up every day and they're like, "Oh yeah, this is great. I love myself. I look so good. I'm gonna go on a vacation every day."

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Like, it's like, no, that's not, that doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. And then people get into this dangerous thing where they're like, "If I get that, then this." And then you get that, and let me tell you what happens when you get that. Oh, wait, wait, wait. "If I get that, then this." If I get that and it just goes on nonstop.

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  You never feel fulfilled.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  It's never, it's not even that it's enough. It's not even like there's a tank and you're filling it a little bit. It's actually this tank stays at zero. It's literally the bowl.

• 32:27Lewis Howes?

  It's emptier and emptier. You're still climbing.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  You're just, if you're looking for achievements, now don't get me wrong. It feels incredibly great when you're like, working for some like job and you get that job that you've always wanted. Like, yes, absolutely. But that's not what happiness is.

• 32:43Lewis Howes?

  It's a moment of that.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:44Lewis Howes?

  Then you got the rest of your life to be happy and choose it.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, now I need that promotion. I really don't like this job until I get that promotion, you know? It's always, there's just, it's a timeless.

• 32:53Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like it's amplified for artists who are on massive stages with the pressure? He was just talking about that he was a photographer for a big artist, I won't say her name, but stopped working with her and just the toxicity of the industry of the jealousy and the competition. It's such a pressure to, I remember interviewing Steve Aoki and I was like, "What's your biggest fear?" And this was like the height a couple of years ago of his documentary and just like tour every night of the year and he goes, Staying relevant was his biggest fear that he shared on the podcast.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  He's a really nice guy.

• 33:28Lewis Howes?

  Super nice guy. He's like, you know, the fear of like just being relevant. Are people gonna wanna listen to my stuff in a week, in a month, in a year? Are people still gonna like my music? Is it still interesting for people? And the pressure of like, once you're up there, it's almost more pressure to stay and get bigger, not decline.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:45Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure. The saddest part to me of the industry is these are a bunch of artists that are sharing. The whole point of artistry is you're sharing a really vulnerable part of you. You're like, let me tell you all what I write in my journal at night. That's basically what it is. It's like, here's my journal. These are the things I'm writing. By the way, let me go to the rooftop and say it to everybody. And so the second that becomes a competition of like, oh, this person's journal. And especially when people are like, it's not subjective. It is completely subjective. Whose journal do you wanna listen to? That's gonna be a subjective thing. Whose journal's better than other people? That's gonna be a subjective thing. So the second artists are, and then when artists are turning on each other. It's just, it makes me sad. And that is something about the industry.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  And I watch people just get torn apart because they'll, they'll express their most heartfelt thing. And then it's just, it just is, people just eat it out.

• 34:43Lewis Howes?

  They just criticize it. They're like, this guy sucks. This girl's no good, whatever.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Right. This is cooler. This is not as cool.

• 34:51Lewis Howes?

  There's a lot of great art and songs and movies that have stemmed from an emotional pain or suffering seeming. Where people talk about their pain and it becomes this beautiful hit where people relate to it. It's a number one bestseller, whatever. Do you believe it's more powerful to create from a place of pain or love?

• 35:14Speaker 01

  That's a great question.

• 35:14Lewis Howes?

  Which one is more sustainable?

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Well, I would say I've definitely written a lot more from pain than love. I had written very few love songs. So I don't know that I'm the best person to ask this question to because I don't have. I have a really hard time writing a love song without feeling like, oh, this just doesn't feel right.

• 35:35Lewis Howes?

  Not authentic.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just like, I'm not gonna write a song just to write a song. Don't get me wrong, I've written a few love songs, but if I were to put it on paper, it's like ninety percent of Imagine Dragons songs are like, pain.

• 35:47Lewis Howes?

  They're epic, though, you're like, yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  There's like five percent of like, just, I'm completely happy, like.

• 35:54Lewis Howes?

  Oh, bliss.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, like on top of the world or something.

• 35:56Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  I just felt great. And then there's like the five percent of love songs. But, so for me, I remember I was talking with one of my friends the other day and he was telling me that he was having a really hard time writing. And I was asking him why and he said, well, because I'm really happy.

• 36:10Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  He's just really happy. All the songs he was churning out, he just thought, he felt like he was reaching for something. I'm not saying you can't write a song when you're really happy, but maybe it's more just like in a peaceful state. I don't know that art, it does exist and some people are in like total zen mode, probably writing great songs and poetry and stuff. But I would think that most art comes from pain. If I had to, if I'm just guessing, I guess most art comes from this place of insecurity, pain, hurt, questioning. And then love is maybe second, you know, on the list. I don't know. That's just what I listen to. So maybe I'm just, it's just a product of what I choose to listen to.

• 36:48Lewis Howes?

  Sure. What is your greatest fear?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Well, if I were to say my greatest fear on just a level, like, I think there's like two levels of fear. There's like, there's fears that are like the common, like spiders or something, you know? And then there's the fears that are like deep fears. So on the common fears, I would say I'm very claustrophobic. I don't want to get stuck in an elevator or in a coffin. That for me is like, like I've had one time where I was stuck in an elevator and it was, I was, literally it was like.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  Begging, you're like.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it was like only thirty seconds or something.

• 37:19Lewis Howes?

  And I'm gonna die in here.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was intense. I can't even talk about it without getting chills. So that's, that would be like the trite fear. But a deep fear for me is losing people I love, for sure. That, I know that a lot of people say that, but for me, that authentically, I've lost, I've lost quite a few, maybe an unusual amount of friends over the years. Yes, to. Um, drug abuse, um, to suicide, uh, or cancer. Those three things, those seem to be just a prevalent source of just, they're just like these demons that are lurking over all my friends and family throughout the years.

• 38:00Lewis Howes?

  I said this to, um, I don't know if you know Lindsey Stirling.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:04Lewis Howes?

  But she's, she's LDS.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  The violin player, yeah.

• 38:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. She was on about a year ago and her, you know, she had some deaths in her, her family and her life. And I was talking to her about it. I was like, you know what? One of my fears is I've met so many people, just like you or, I've interviewed so many people. I've become friends with people. I've had so many friends in sports and business and all walks of life. And not many people have died.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:30Lewis Howes?

  And I don't know what it's gonna be like losing someone. Like eventually I'm gonna die or they're gonna die.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  And if I'm alive, someone's gonna die at some point.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:37Lewis Howes?

  How do you handle grieving death of someone who's close or even maybe not that close, but just people you interact with and are friends with?

• 38:45Speaker 01

  You know, I wish I knew the answer. I'm, I'm going really through something right now where I'm really trying to make peace with that. I'm like sprainically searching for some set of peace, um, some way to make peace with the people I've lost. I like just started reading this book, Proof of Heaven. I'm like, you know what I mean? I'm like, I'm looking for, I'm like, someone, please.

• 39:04Lewis Howes?

  Me too.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I think that's, that's an important part of life because otherwise I was just stagnant. Kind of I was just like, ah, what, you know, we're gonna live. And then you're like, I'm gonna live forever. You're just, you're not thinking that, no, you know, it's going to get to a point in your life, tipping point where you're gonna start to lose people around you. Whether it's you get older and it's just heart attacks and things like that. Or if you make friends with a lot of people who apparently, uh, you know, have whatever it's drugs, whatever it is, like me, I've lost quite a few friends to that. So.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  What do you do about it? I don't have a great answer for it, other than I just choose to believe that I'm gonna see them again. And I know a lot of people are like, you know, there's a lot of atheists who are like, "Why choose to believe in BS?" And I went through a phase, actually, where I was really at that point. I was very like angry about religious people and very angry towards anyone who believed in it. I was like, "Just..." What, you know what? It's funny, because I turned into the person, was one of the first people I met on my mission, walked up to me and said, he was like, "Look at you, this missionary." He was like, "I just wanna tell you, kid, religion is for weak people."

• 40:18Lewis Howes?

  Oh, your first day?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  First day.

• 40:21Lewis Howes?

  You're like at nineteen?

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're on that street like, "Hello, I'm Elder Reynolds." "Jesus Christ, I am a saint." And this guy just looked at me and said, "Religion is for weak people." And I was just like, "Oh." He's like, "Just people who can't handle the truth." So I went through this phase where I was there, I was like, "You know what? All these people like making up these things just because they can't face the harsh reality of life. You're gonna live, and then you're gonna die, you'll be nothing, there's nothingness in this screen." Like, I definitely went through that phase. And I'm not knocking on people who are there, because it's just as possible that that's the truth, there's something else. Like, what I have a problem with is when people tell me, "I know it's this."

• 40:57Lewis Howes?

  You don't know.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what bothers me.

• 40:59Lewis Howes?

  Either way, no one knows.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  I'm just as bothered by the atheists telling me that they know, as I am as the Mormon telling me they know. Like, I don't want anybody to tell me they know as a fact. I just, let's just all settle on the fact that we don't know 100%.

• 41:12Lewis Howes?

  Yes, yes.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  So I went through that phase, and now I'm at a place where I have had, I've had one experience that I can really look to, that I was like, "I don't know how to explain that." And it gives me a little bit of hope in a... In a cool way that I always wanted my whole life. I was like, God, if you're there like I would pray every day. I'm like, God, as a Mormon kid, like, God, give me what is going on with my family. They all believe in this thing. Cause I guess you're answering their prayers, but you're certainly not answering my prayers. Like just wiggle my bed or like just do something.

• 41:45Lewis Howes?

  Turn the lights on.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  And I relentlessly I prayed for that. Nothing. And then, you know, you're always taught the truth. It's like, well, the miracle seekers never get the miracle. I'm like, what the hell am I like supposed to not want an answer then? And then I get the answer like, you just can't win, you know?

• 41:58Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  So, um, so yeah, but now I'm in a place where I've had certain things happen where I do, I, I, I feel a closeness to some people who have passed like, and some people can call it emotion, whatever that, and that might be the truth. But for me, I feel like there's something more. And I tell my daughter that, you know, I tell my kids that, yeah.

• 42:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool. Get a few more questions. Okay, okay.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. She's like, talk about ankylosing spondylitis.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  I get you. God, there's so many things I want to ask you, but I want to respectful your time.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  I can tell you a little bit of health, health.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  So there was, and so let me just tell you about all my problems, which I tell you, let me complain. So the, the biggest thing, the things that I'm most passionate about are the LGBTQ community because of the reason I explained.

• 42:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Obviously religion and talk of those things are important to me and that's just interesting to me. I really like to talk about that. Aliens, I like aliens a lot. I get into that with you later, but.

• 42:56Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Another interview.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Mental health is important to me because of the reason I explained. And then physical health is actually super important to me.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, cause you dealt with something.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. So I was diagnosed with two diseases in my twenties, ulcerative colitis and ankylosing spondylitis, which were both autoimmune diseases. But I was undiagnosed for many years, which is super frustrating. Anybody who has some magical thing going on that's horrible to their body and nobody knows what it is. And you're seeing the doctors who are supposed to know, and they either don't know, or they have crazy egos and they pretend to know.

• 43:29Lewis Howes?

  Which is even worse.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're like, oh, that doctor, you went and saw a lot, no wonder you didn't get an answer. He's really stupid. I could tell you what it is. Psyllatica. I was having all these crazy back issues that came out of nowhere. No point of injury, didn't do anything, and just suddenly I was just having extreme back pain in my SI joints. Just like unexplained back pain, lots of morning stiffness, couldn't sleep at night. And it was right when the band was just starting to break, so it was like I couldn't perform. So I was like, oh, great, I worked so hard for this my entire life and now it's just gonna fall apart.

• 44:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  So finally, I went after a couple of years to a rheumatologist, which I wish I had done earlier. And I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, got treatment for it, changed my whole life. Now I'm able to do all the things I want, live a great, healthy, wonderful life. So that's my last thing that I'm really, really focused on right now, which is I'm part of this campaign called, if you go to monsterpainintheas.com, you can take a three-minute quiz and find out relatively, if it's possible, it sounds like that you have AS, and then it'll refer you to a rheumatologist in your area. If I would have had that, it would have literally years of pain changed. So for me, I just, I really am frustrated that there's a disease that millions of people have, and that millions of people probably have right now that's undiagnosed.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  And they're just living with it and going to doctors just like me, who don't know what ankylosing spondylitis is. I understand it's a mouthful, but it's actually a pretty common disease. So we need to make it mainstream and this campaign is searching to do that.

• 44:58Lewis Howes?

  For people that maybe feel like they have something going on in their immunity or their system, go to this place and take the quiz to see if this might be.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  If you're having unexplained back pain, period, if you have unexplained back pain, go to Monster, it cannot serve you wrong to go to monsterpainintheas.com, take, literally, it's like a two-minute, it took me like two seconds to do. It's like, there's certain indicators that show, okay, this isn't like a point of back injury. This is actually more likely an autoimmune thing or an inflammatory thing, so.

• 45:27Lewis Howes?

  And it'll tell you whether or not and the next steps of what to do.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they'll find a rheumatologist for you right in your area. It's literally, it's just, I just wish I had it available to me. So.

• 45:36Lewis Howes?

  Or if you hear a friend who says, I always got this back pain.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Tell them to go to the.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And it manifests itself different in other people. Some people it's in their neck. Some people it's in their ankles. So if you have unexplained inflammatory pain in your body.

• 45:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Go there. Might as well. Takes a couple of minutes.

• 45:51Lewis Howes?

  You said you moved out here roughly around 2009.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:55Lewis Howes?

  It's the end of 2019.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  I live back in Vegas now. I was here for a while.

• 45:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes, yes.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Back in Vegas, yeah.

• 45:59Lewis Howes?

  But you moved out here to kind of start your career in 2009. Is that fair to say?

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:04Lewis Howes?

  So it's been a decade of you on the journey of pursuing this career, this dream, blowing up, being where you're at now. It's been a decade and we're about to start a new decade. 2020.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:16Lewis Howes?

  Start a new decade. It's, you know, perfect vision, 2020.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Right. Okay.

• 46:19Lewis Howes?

  So based on the last decade of your life, with all the challenges, ups and downs, from the religious questioning, family, marriage, being a father, you know, rock star, superstar, success, injury, all this stuff to.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Failure.

• 46:38Lewis Howes?

  Failure, mastering your health, to being the bad boy, to, you know, all these different things. What was the greatest lesson you learned in the last decade? Moving into 2020, perfect vision, new decade?

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Great question. I would say listening. I feel like we live, if there's anything I want to implement in the next decade of my life, it's just listening more and actually having conversation that leads to progress. I think we live in a nation right now, especially that's so divided because people are just name-calling. No one's listening. No one's taking time to actually say, this is what I think. Now what do you think? Why do you think that? Let's actually really get into the nitty-gritty of that. I just think that that, I wish there was just more listening. I wish I listened more. I want to like be in a conversation with anybody at any time

• 47:32Speaker 01

  and give it a hundred. Like that's, I really am trying to make more of an effort to just be present. To.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I say all this is I'm telling you. I'm like thinking my head, I'm like, I really wanna listen to them. Let me tell you all the reasons you need to listen.

• 47:48Lewis Howes?

  It's great, man. This is a question I ask at the end called the three truths.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:53Lewis Howes?

  To everyone. So imagine it's your last day on earth many years from now. You get to live as old as you wanna live, but eventually you gotta pass. And you've achieved every dream you can think of. You make all the arts you wanna make and you help all the people and you do all the things. It all happens. But for whatever reason, you gotta take all of your art, creative writing, videos, content you put out in the world with you. So no one has access to your words, music, this conversation, gone. Hypothetical question. But you get to leave behind a piece of paper and you get to write down three things you know to be true.

• 48:32Lewis Howes?

  From your entire life, the three greatest lessons that you would leave behind for anyone to be remembered by you. And this is all they would have to remember you by.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:41Lewis Howes?

  What would you say are those three truths or three lessons that you would wanna share with the world?

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Geez, that's heavy.

• 48:47Lewis Howes?

  It's a school of greatness, not a school of that.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  That's heavy.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I would try to be just short in my explanation, because people's, nobody's gonna read this.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  I think the first thing I would say, that's the obvious thing, that was the quickest thing that I've learned in my life was, love completely.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, just love completely. Like everybody you meet, give them complete love, acceptance. And yeah, that would be one.

• 49:23Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  I think two would be,

• 49:29Speaker 01

  love yourself. Yeah, I think that sounds like it'd be covered in one, but I think I'd reiterate it in two because it just needs to be said. I have had a really hard time coming to terms with myself, loving myself. I think that's really, really important to love yourself. And three, do more of what makes you happy. Yeah, I think.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  It's easy to feel guilty because you need to do more of, you know, I don't know, I just think do more of what makes you happy. Like you just, it's not, I know that sounds selfish to some people, but it might make you extremely happy to serve others, right? You know what I mean?

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  That might make you super happy. It makes me happy. I'm not saying I'm great at it, but I, it makes me happy. So do more of what makes you genuinely happy.

• 50:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Maybe I'd throw in genuinely because it's like, it's gonna take you a little bit to learn actually what makes you happy. You might think it's just eating like Egg McMuffins every day, whatever those are. Egg McMuffins, that sounded like Egg McMuffins. Egg McMuffins?

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  Egg McMuffins?

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Egg McMuffins?

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  That sounds like a great product.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Egg McMuffins. Egg McMuffins, that's where I was lost, sorry. But yeah, what genuinely makes you happy, probably those three things.

• 50:39Lewis Howes?

  I love that band. I want to acknowledge you, Dan, for a second for being a great listener, for showing up and listening to your audience, for being someone who is a humble servant. You know, as much as you're off on the road and pursuing your passion, you're lifting so many people up and you're able to share this type of message vulnerably when a lot of people in your position, I don't think, open up like this. It's gonna help a lot of people. And I know you do this on stage and on tour and you do events just speaking about this for communities that really need this. So I acknowledge you for your heart, your ability to listen to your own truth, yourself, and for spreading so much love to so many people. So I acknowledge you for that, man.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Appreciate it, man.

• 51:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Right back at you. You've got a great spirit about you and I really appreciate it and my time here.

• 51:27Lewis Howes?

  How can we support you in other ways? How can we follow you online? Where can we go? Where do you like to hang out? Instagram the most?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I do a little Instagram and Twitter. I don't know, it's just Dan Reynolds, I think, for both.

• 51:42Lewis Howes?

  With your tours coming up?

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're gonna be off the road for a little bit. Don't have to worry about that. I feel like the world hasn't had enough of Mad and Dragons for a little bit. You can take a break from that. You can go to Love Loud, loveloudfest.com. If you want to look at the LGBTQ festival we put on every year, we've raised good money for great charities.

• 51:59Lewis Howes?

  Salt Lake? Is that Salt Lake or?

• 52:01Speaker 01

  It's around Utah. Sometimes we do Salt Lake, sometimes more in like the southern Utah area. And...

• 52:08Speaker 01

  MonsterPainInTheAS.com if your back's hurting you like

• 52:11Lewis Howes?

  That's it man.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think just

• 52:13Lewis Howes?

  Check it out.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Check in on your, your health and be good to yourself. Listen to this guy, he sounds like he knows what he's doing, he's got a good heart, so.

• 52:20Lewis Howes?

  Love it man, the last question is what's your definition of greatness?

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Definition of greatness? I'd say true humility. Like the people I respect the most and I'm like, that person is great. I think of like my dad. I think of people who just, and I say true humility because there's a lot of false humility and people like, oh, but it's hard to find somebody who really just spends their whole life just making other people around them feel good. Cause they just, that's what they do. And I look at those people, I'm like, that's a leader to me. Every time, like, yeah, that's it for me.

• 52:54Lewis Howes?

  That's it man. Dan, thanks bro.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Alright man.

• 52:56Lewis Howes?

  Thank you man. I hope you got some valuable insights from this episode with Dan. Such an inspiration, a wealth of knowledge from all of his experience. I mean, the guy has been through so many different challenges, so many different ups and downs, traveled the world. He's been through it all. From nearly getting divorced, to having multiple kids, to having different phases in his life that were good, that were challenging, to again, experiencing what it was like to be famous all over the world and to sing and perform in front of tens of thousands of people and so much more. The guy's been through a lot, he's got a lot of lessons. And if you enjoyed this, share it with one friend.

• 53:41Lewis Howes?

  Text someone today, LewisHowes.com/890. Share it on social media, get the message out there. You can be a champion and a hero in someone's life by helping them improve their life with this interview. You never know who you're going to impact, you never know whose life could change from this wisdom. So make sure to share it and get the message out there. If this is your first time, please subscribe over on Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. I'd love to hear from you of what you enjoyed about this, how we can make this podcast better, and any other types of suggestions or recommendations you have. Go to Apple Podcasts, click subscribe. Subscribe on the School of Greatness and leave us a review so we can learn more about

• 54:22Lewis Howes?

  you and what you liked about this show. Also, shoot me a text with the word "podcast" over at 614-350-3960. I'm connecting with intimate group of people who are texting me over there. That's my community platform where I'm getting back to people one by one, doing my best. I get hundreds of messages a day there, but I'm sending micro audio messages of inspiration every single week. So if you want to get on my inspirational voice memo and text messaging platform, then again, text me the word "podcast" at 614-350-3960.

• 55:04Lewis Howes?

  A big thank you again to our sponsors today, lendingclub.com/greatness. Again, you can check your rates in minutes and borrow up to $40,000 at lendingclub.com/greatness. Make sure to check them out. They're the number one peer-to-peer lending platform. There's over $35 billion in loans issued. And also, netsuite.com/greatness. Again, you can get your free guide to seven key strategies to grow your profits by going to netsuite.com/greatness. That's N-E-T-S-U-I-T-E.com/greatness. As Henry Moore said in the beginning, "To be an artist is to believe in life." Well, in that case, anyone who believes in life is an artist, and this world is a beautiful

• 55:49Lewis Howes?

  canvas that you get to play and explore every single day and bring your art to life. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Share it with your friends. Subscribe over on Apple Podcast. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.